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How to protect assets from creditors · The Legal Exchange

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  Speaker 1: This is the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky from the
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  Speaker 1: law firm of Cushing and Dolan and Susan Powers of
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: the Armstrong Advisory Group. Each week, Todd and Susan will
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  Speaker 1: discuss many topics, including estate planning, how to avoid probate,
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  Speaker 1: and protecting your money from a nursing home. If you
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  Speaker 1: need assistance in any of these areas, or have a
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  Speaker 1: question about another issue that may affect your future, call
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  Speaker 1: eight six six eight four eight five six ninety nine
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: to make an appointment. That's eight sixty six eight four
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: eight five six ninety nine. Operators are standing by. Now
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Here are your hosts, Todd Lutsky and Susan Powers.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm Susan Powers,
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  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and I'm
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  Speaker 2: joined by Todd Lutsky, a partner with the law firm
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: of Cushing and Dolan with a master's in taxation. Welcome Todd.
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  Speaker 2: How are you today?
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  Speaker 3: I'm never better in you.
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  Speaker 2: I am great. Thank you what he have for us
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  Speaker 2: this week?
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  Speaker 3: Couple of things got to First of all, we got
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  Speaker 3: a new guide. It's a new month, you know.
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  Speaker 2: Never ever before offered, and that is true, presses actually
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  Speaker 2: never been offered.
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  Speaker 3: We're gonna go to Connecticut. We got an appelled court
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  Speaker 3: there basically how to leave assets to protect from creditors? Interesting?
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  Speaker 3: And then we're gonna go to Mississippi appellied court there.
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  Speaker 3: When do you have to deal with undue influence and
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  Speaker 3: capacity issues at the same time. In this case, you
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  Speaker 3: know this person, Lisa, does a will and she leaves
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  Speaker 3: things to mother, nieces and nephews. The biggest problem with
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  Speaker 3: this case is why is it going up a generation
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  Speaker 3: to mother. I'm gonna leave it at that, and we're
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  Speaker 3: going to talk about how maybe not to leave things
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  Speaker 3: up a generation and how to protect assets from creditors.
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  Speaker 3: This is a situation where there was someone who went
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  Speaker 3: into a nursing home and basically owed three hundred and
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  Speaker 3: ten thousand dollars to the nursing home and mother ends
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  Speaker 3: up dying, leaving things to daughter who is in the
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  Speaker 3: nursing home, and those assets are not good planning when
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  Speaker 3: you know someone, Yeah, so you know, leaving assets down
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  Speaker 3: a generation, this usually doesn't happen. But what about when
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  Speaker 3: people leave it up a generation. This is a really
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  Speaker 3: interesting day really when you think about the two cases
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  Speaker 3: that we've got to deal with, so a little different.
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  Speaker 3: We're going to talk about it, but more importantly, and
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  Speaker 3: I guess I'm more excited about it, is this new
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  Speaker 3: guide that we're given away. We put one together. I
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  Speaker 3: feel like with the passage of the BBBA, it's just
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  Speaker 3: sort of cemented the idea of the simplicity of joint
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  Speaker 3: revocable trusts, and that is the name of the guide,
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  Speaker 3: the simplicity of joint revocable Folks. I know we talk
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  Speaker 3: a lot about irrevocable revocable trusts compared to two trusts,
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  Speaker 3: where you have to divide assets between a husband trust
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  Speaker 3: and a wife trust and worry about which one grows more.
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  Speaker 3: This is so much simpler. It's simpler from funding standpoint,
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  Speaker 3: put it all in one trust. It's also better for
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  Speaker 3: moderate estates. You know, what's a moderate estate under fifteen
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  Speaker 3: million nowadays, so you know, it's better for a moderate estate,
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  Speaker 3: and especially for people who have large iras as a
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  Speaker 3: part of their ass a part of their estate. It
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  Speaker 3: allows you to shelter way more on the first death
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  Speaker 3: than you can with two trusts, and it allows you
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  Speaker 3: to get even something called a step, a full step
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  Speaker 3: up in basis, and then maybe even a double step
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  Speaker 3: up in basis on the second death. Folks, so much
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  Speaker 3: to learn about with these revocable trusts. If it's something
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  Speaker 3: that interests you, get the guide eight six y six
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  Speaker 3: eight four eight five six ninety nine or Legal Exchange
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  Speaker 3: Show dot com The Simplicity of Joint Revocable Trusts eight
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  Speaker 3: six y six eight four eight five six nine to nine.
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  Speaker 3: Let's go to Connecticut. So we've got Patricia. She was
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  Speaker 3: a patient Mayfair Healthcare Center and spent a couple of
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  Speaker 3: years there till her death in late twenty twenty two.
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  Speaker 3: Patricia was the only heir to her mother, Margaret's estate.
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  Speaker 3: It like, why are we talking about her mother who
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  Speaker 3: owned property in eastern Connecticut at the time of her death.
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  Speaker 3: Mayfair files in July of twenty twenty two a prejudgment
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  Speaker 3: remedy against Patricia's estate for three hundred and ten thousand
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  Speaker 3: dollars of unpaid costs attaching to the eastern Eastern property
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  Speaker 3: that she owned. The mother owned well. The trial court
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  Speaker 3: confirmed that Mayfair had provided services and was owed the money,
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  Speaker 3: but they denied the claim for this prejudgment claim because
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  Speaker 3: mom's estate was still being administered and the property is
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  Speaker 3: not yet subject to Patricia's control. Well, Mayfair didn't like that,
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  Speaker 3: so they peel, of course, and the appellate court reversed.
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  Speaker 3: As as to the prejudgment statute in Connecticut, it defines
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  Speaker 3: property as a present or future interest in real property.
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  Speaker 3: So even though Patricia's title to the eastern property was
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  Speaker 3: contingent on the administration of Margaret, her mother's estate.
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  Speaker 2: Because Margaret had died already, Margaret had.
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  Speaker 3: Died, she still had a future interest in the property,
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  Speaker 3: and it's attachable. I always pause there and I say,
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  Speaker 3: I wonder if the fact that Patricia was the only
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  Speaker 3: heir made a difference. Yeah, you know what I'm thinking.
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  Speaker 3: So anyways, folks, this isn't so much just about what
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  Speaker 3: happened here. You know, we've got to learn something from
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  Speaker 3: this case. And so what I say is, this is
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  Speaker 3: a very uncommon situation. Right. You don't usually leave assets
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  Speaker 3: down a generation to a child who's in a nursing home.
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  Speaker 2: Frankly, if your child is in the nursing home, review
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  Speaker 2: what you've got going on with your estate plan makes
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  Speaker 2: them change.
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  Speaker 3: It absolutely, Susan, That's exactly right. And it's like, it
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  Speaker 3: seemed to me that Mom could have figured out a
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  Speaker 3: better way to leave her assets.
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  Speaker 2: To anybody else.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, well it did say it was her only air,
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  Speaker 3: but leave it in a way that, in case she
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  Speaker 3: hadn't died, could have taken care of her but not
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  Speaker 3: exposed it.
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  Speaker 2: How would she have done that?
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  Speaker 3: So through trust would be the way. It didn't seem
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  Speaker 3: like it didn't really get into mom's estate here, but
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  Speaker 3: I assume Mom didn't have any real estate planning done
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  Speaker 3: at the time, so I definitely would have had her
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  Speaker 3: set up some kind of a trust to hold the assets.
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  Speaker 3: It seems like the asset probably just just passed through
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  Speaker 3: the estate right to or even in the will right
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  Speaker 3: to the daughter, because it made it sound like she
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  Speaker 3: did have this future interest. So all good points for sure, Susan.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, that's it. But the thing I want to
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  Speaker 3: teach from this is that this is uncommon. You're right,
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  Speaker 3: you usually don't leave it down a generation. But to
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  Speaker 3: your point, if you're going to Susan and you know
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  Speaker 3: that there's a problem with your child, whether it's a
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  Speaker 3: nursing home or a special needs child, or you know,
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  Speaker 3: whatever the case may be, figure out a way to
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  Speaker 3: plan for that child. But sometimes I have kids and
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  Speaker 3: you might have seen it in your practice, Susan who
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  Speaker 3: who want to take care of a parent, And so
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  Speaker 3: I always tell them, Look, don't leave assets up a
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  Speaker 3: generation outright, because then it's going to be included in
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  Speaker 3: their estate and subject to their estate taxes. In addition,
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  Speaker 3: if they go to a nursing home, it's going to
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  Speaker 3: be taken by the nursing home. So those are so
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  Speaker 3: you never do it that way. And again when I
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  Speaker 3: say if you leave it and forget the nursing home
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  Speaker 3: for a minute, again the inclusion in the estate and
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  Speaker 3: subject to estate taxes, because then it's taxed when it
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  Speaker 3: comes back down. Now it's back down at the generation
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  Speaker 3: it started at, and now it's going to be taxed
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  Speaker 3: again to get down to the generation that it should
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  Speaker 3: have gotten to without having been taxed twice. Right, So
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  Speaker 3: you really got to consider that when you're leaving it.
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  Speaker 3: How do you do it? You use a trust, right
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  Speaker 3: you take say I want to leave a percentage of
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  Speaker 3: my assets to my parents. Fine, I'm going to put this,
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  Speaker 3: you know, say fifty percent of my assets held in
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  Speaker 3: trust for the benefit of my parents. If living the trustee,
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  Speaker 3: in their sole discretion, can make distributions out and this
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  Speaker 3: distributions can be made for whatever the trustee wants.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, so use the same kind of trust you would
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  Speaker 2: if you want to protect your kid's inheritance, but you're
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  Speaker 2: protecting your parent. Ah, I never thought of it going
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  Speaker 2: in the other direction.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, you put that same language in there, And now
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  Speaker 3: mom and dad don't own it, right, they can enjoy it.
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  Speaker 3: They can have maybe someone bring health care into their house. Right,
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  Speaker 3: they want to stay at home. They might be a
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  Speaker 3: need for them. Maybe they don't have a lot of
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  Speaker 3: money to live on, and so this will help provide
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  Speaker 3: them a better lifestyle. But if they get sick and
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  Speaker 3: go to the nursing home, even the next day after,
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  Speaker 3: let's say the child died in advance and left something
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  Speaker 3: to them, there's no five year waiting period. So because technically, right,
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  Speaker 3: it was never theirs to begin with, So it's not theirs.
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  Speaker 3: Now they get sick, it's not theirs, and more importantly,
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  Speaker 3: when they die, it's not theirs. And it's not taxed,
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  Speaker 3: and it's not taxed, so it's not included in their
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  Speaker 3: state and it's not taxed. And to your point, Susan,
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  Speaker 3: it is that discretionary language that we use for dynasty
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  Speaker 3: trusts on the way down, same thing here. The mother
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  Speaker 3: could have done that. The mother could have simply set
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  Speaker 3: up a trust and said, oh, I see it's my
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  Speaker 3: only heir. I leave it in trust for my daughter,
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  Speaker 3: sole discretion. And again, most of us doing our planning
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  Speaker 3: for our kids use the sole discretionary language to provide
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  Speaker 3: generation skipping tax benefits and protection from divorces and creditors
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  Speaker 3: for the kids. So, folks, all this can be done.
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  Speaker 3: It also can be done when you use the simplicity
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: of the Joint Revocable Trust Guide. It's brand new for
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: the month, never before given away. Eight sixty six eight
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  Speaker 3: four eight five six ninety nine.
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  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Todd Lutski, a partner with the
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  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Powers, a
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  Speaker 2: financial advice with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and we've got
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  Speaker 2: much more to come when we return to the legal
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: exchange with Todd Lutski.
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  Speaker 1: The state planning isn't just about taxes, it's about peace
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  Speaker 1: of mind. At Cushing and Dolan, we believe your plan
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  Speaker 1: should protect your family, not complicate your life. A joint
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  Speaker 1: revocable trust can help you do both. It lets you
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  Speaker 1: avoid probate, which means no court delays, no public filings,
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  Speaker 1: and no stress for your loved ones. Your state stays
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  Speaker 1: private and your family stays in control. Our new guide,
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: The Simplicity of Joint Revocable Trusts also explains how a
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  Speaker 1: trust can protect your children's inheritance from creditors, divorce, or
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  Speaker 1: bad financial decisions down the road. This guide makes it
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  Speaker 1: smart move for your family's future. Call eight six six
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  Speaker 1: You're listening to the Legal Exchange with Todd Lunsky, an
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  Speaker 1: expert in elder life planning and taxation. Need help with
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  Speaker 1: your estate plan contient right now and make an appointment
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  Speaker 1: eight six six eight four eight five six ninety nine.
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  Speaker 1: That's eight sixty six eight four eight five six ninety nine.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome back into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: Susan Powers, a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group,
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: and I'm joined by Todd Lahti, a partner with the
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Dolan with a master's in taxation.
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  Speaker 2: Where are we headed now, Todd.
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  Speaker 3: We're going to go to Mississippi talk about undue influence
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  Speaker 3: and legal capacity. So we have Lisa, who did a
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  Speaker 3: will in nineteen ninety nine real property to her nieces
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  Speaker 3: and residue to her mother. Only here we go up
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  Speaker 3: a generation and nieces and grand niece, nieces and grand niece.
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  Speaker 3: So those big group of people notice no children. Just
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  Speaker 3: keep that in the back of your mind for learning
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: as we go forward. Following a diagnosis of colon cancer
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  Speaker 3: in twenty twelve, Lisa's sister Karen became her primary caregiver. Oh,
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  Speaker 3: that seems nice. For now, then diagnosed with liver cancer
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  Speaker 3: later Lisa, yes, Lisa was the one diagnosed with the
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  Speaker 3: liver cancer. Layership redoes her will right after that, and
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  Speaker 3: this time the will says real property to Karen and nieces.
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  Speaker 3: So Karen gets a little bump up there. Yeah, Karen
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  Speaker 3: gets a little bump up and residue two nieces and
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  Speaker 3: grand niece. Okay, so people are still kind of included,
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  Speaker 3: but it seems like Karen got a little bump up.
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  Speaker 3: Twenty fourteen. Lisa then moves in with Karen because I
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  Speaker 3: guess her health is declining.
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  Speaker 2: Yep.
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  Speaker 3: Lisa then does a new will right after she moves
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  Speaker 3: in in twenty fourteen. This time the lion's share of
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: the assets goes to Karen, a bigger bump up and
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: one niece, so it all looks like the grand nieces
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  Speaker 3: are out. June twenty fifteen, Lisa dies. Lisa and Karen's
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: sister Susan, so this is another sister. Susan files to
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: determine airship. Karen then probates the twenty fourteen will. Makes
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: sense it's the most recent will, but the court sets
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  Speaker 3: aside the second will the twenty fourteen will because it
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  Speaker 3: was clear and convincing evidence of undue influence, and Karen
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  Speaker 3: did not rebut or overcome that argument. It did look
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: a little fishy. Yeah, finally Karen, Lisa moves in with Karen.
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  Speaker 3: Next thing, you know, Karen or Lisa does a new will,
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  Speaker 3: leaving the lion's share to Karen. I mean, that's the
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: definition of undue influence, all right. Well, six years later,
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  Speaker 3: Karen probates the nineteen ninety nine will with the first
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  Speaker 3: and second condicils. So she got a little bumper six
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: years later, and now Karen successfully rebuts any presumption of
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: undue influence from the earlier wills. Susan objects. The appellate
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  Speaker 3: Court affirms, stating that no one other than Lisa had
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: direct involvement in executing those earlier documents, and she had
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  Speaker 3: full knowledge and full deliberation and when executing those earlier documents,
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  Speaker 3: And just because she was subject to a conservatorship at
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: the time does not mean she has lost testamentary capacity.
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  Speaker 3: The nineteen ninety nine wills and condicils stand. That's probably
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  Speaker 3: the right decision, But folks, I think we have a
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  Speaker 3: lot to learn about what went on in this case
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  Speaker 3: and what we can do better when we're doing our planning.
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  Speaker 3: So let me tell you that in one of the
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: ways maybe to do that would have been, you know,
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: to set up the simplicity of a joint revocable trust,
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: which is exactly what the guide is entitled to this month.
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: It basically helps you understand how easy a revocable trust
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: can be to fund it. You can then be trustees
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: of it. It explains how it shelters assets on the
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: first death for a state taxes and allows the full
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: amount of the assets, not half, to be included in
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: the estate on the first death, getting a full step
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  Speaker 3: up in basis, so you're able to shelter more assets
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: than you could otherwise. And it explains how you can
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: actually use this trust to get a second step up
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: in basis when the surviving spouse dies. So all the
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: drafting languages in there, and it's really a great trust.
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: It's just almost like a universal trust for a lot
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: of people. If you haven't done your planning, call and
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: get the guide. This might be the kind of trust
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: that works for you. Eight six six eight four eight
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: five six nine nine or Legal Exchange show dot Com
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: again eight six six eight four eight five six nine
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: nine or Legal Exchange show dot com. What do we
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: learn from this? So, first thing I say is, remember
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: the beginning I said there was no kids involved. Right,
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: How many people say I don't need a plan because
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: I don't have any kids. Maybe you still do.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: I think you need it even more so, Yeah.
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: I mean I remember my great aunt and uncle had
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: no kids, and we were there kids, and so it
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: was important to them. And so you can have close nieces, nephews,
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: what have you and plan for them.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: Sure, as you should make sure your assets go where
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: you want them to go, because it wouldn't have in
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: their case, wouldn't have gone to you and your siblings. No,
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: go to your parents.
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: Yes, so if you died, she died without a will.
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: So again, at least she did a will. We can
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: give her credit for trying to do the will. I
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: mean maybe a trust would have been a little better
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: if you knew you were sick or you wanted to
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: protect the assets for somebody in here. She had the cancer.
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: So you don't ever know how that plays out. But
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: so I tell people, you know, it's important to plan,
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: you know, just to ensure, as you said, your assets
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: go where you want. So next, let's talk a little
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: bit about you know, capacity, right, because I meet with
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: people a lot who would have had you know, might
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: come in and they say, well, my husband is here,
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: but he has early dementia. But if you didn't tell me,
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: I wouldn't know, right, and early that's what I mean.
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: So early to like in this case, she was under
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: some sort of a conservatorship. Doesn't always mean that you
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: lost testamentary capacity. You still might be able to plan
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: your estate, maybe get a doctor's note or something. So example,
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: when when people come in and they say that they
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: have early dementia, that I simply ask a few questions
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: more to make sure that I know that they have capacity.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: So that doesn't stop them from being able to plan.
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I think the difference is what's the difference between
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: contractual capacity and testamentary capacity. If you're signing a contract,
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: you need to have full capacity, right. If you're signing
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: a will, you got to ask questions like do you
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: know how many children you have? Yes, and you could
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: rattle their names off. Do you know how many grandchildren? Yes,
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: and they rattle names off. Do you know where they live?
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: Yes?
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: They right? I mean do you know who this?
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: These are the kind of things. Now you start saying,
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: you know what they know who the nature of their
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: bounty is. Yes, that's probably enough again just to be safe.
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: But that's that's probably enough. They don't have to be
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: you know. You worry when you say how many children
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: do you have and they say three and they have five?
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: Or I have how many daughters do you have and
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: they say none and they are all daughters. I mean
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: that's the problem.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: Now having cleared that piece up from this case, you know,
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: I also have clients who I've done planning for years
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: and years ago, and they come back now I want
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: to make a change, and folks, yes, many of them
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: have irrevocable Medicaid trusts, and yes we're allowed to make
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: a change. Yeah, absolutely, we can exercise the limited power
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: of appointment. So that's when my little red flags go
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: up when I have somebody coming back later years later,
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: and usually you get a call from a kid, you know,
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: and then I say, well, hold on, we're not talking
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: to children. We're going to talk to the parent and
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: that's the end of it. So you kids are great,
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: but that's not what we're doing. Ye. And then even
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: if they're there and I talk to them all and
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: I explain, And usually I do this because it's they're
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: coming back because one child is going to end up
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: getting something less, sometimes cut out all together, but sometimes
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: just getting less and someone's getting more. And when I
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: see this come in to me and I'll say, okay,
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: doesn't mean we can't do it. First, are you do
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: you have capacity? We always want to check that, and
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: then depending on their age, even if I feel there's
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: no diagnosis, no medical issues and they're fine, seemingly perfectly,
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: you know, having capacity. I tell everybody, if you want
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: this to work when you die, go get a doctor's
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: note now, so that when we sign we have that
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: in the file. So later when the person who's getting
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: less comes back and tries to challenge your capacity, we
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: slide the doctor's note in. And it's important. It's not
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: done because we don't trust them. It's done to help
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: them ensure that their wishes are going to be honored. So, folks,
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: that's really how you do it. And now's the difference
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: between capacity and ways to plan. When you're doing your planning,
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: if you've never done one and you're not sure how
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: trusts work. This joint revocable trust might be the way
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: for you to get started eight six six eight four
• 23:28
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• 23:32
  Speaker 3: com and request the brand new guide The Simplicity of
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: Joint Revocable Trusts.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner with the
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Powers, a
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group. Todd will be
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: answering your listener questions when we return to the Legal
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: Exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: The state planning isn't just about taxes, It's about peace
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• 23:58
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• 24:01
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• 24:04
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  Speaker 1: exchange show dot com. The proceeding was paid for in
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: The views expressed are solely those of Cushing and Dolan.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan and or Armstrong Advisory may contact you
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  Speaker 5: This is Chuck Zada from the Armstrong Advisory Group. Your
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• 27:25
  Speaker 1: You're listening to the Legal Exchange, and it's time for
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: Ask Todd, the segment where Todd will answer your questions
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: about anything and everything that's included in the estate planning process.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: Once again, here's Todd Lutsky and Susan Powers.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: Welcome back, Todd. We have a few questions from listeners
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: for you. First question comes from Donna in Newton, mass
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: And Donna writes, my mother passed away and had a
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: trust that gave my sister the ability to stay in
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: my mother's home for as long as she wants to.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: My sister does not have any money to take care
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: of the property and pay the real estate taxes, which
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: are substantial. Are my siblings and I now responsible to
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: pay for these expenses with a little money that is
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: left in the trust.
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: Well, I'm not sure how this trust reads, but it
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: sounds like somebody wanted to take care of this one child,
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: and in a way where this child probably doesn't have
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: a house and probably couldn't afford one on her own.
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: R see. But that's where the problem is so when
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: people deal with real estate, first of all, you need
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: a trust. So kudos to Dono for doing one. M
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: Please don't try to deal with passing real estate on
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: without a trust. I find it just causes problems. It's
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: okay to allocate one trust to one child or to
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: hold it in trust for a child because you want
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: to care for that child. That's a good idea. The
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: problem is how do you pay for it. So you
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: have a couple of things. One again, not knowing what
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: this child situation is, you would hope that they could
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: at least work or they're not disabled. I don't know
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: what this child situation is. But if the child was
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: able to work and sort of live but just not
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: able to buy a house, then you put language in
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: that says the child can live there, but the child
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: must pay all the real estate taxes, utilities, upkeep maintenance,
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: and put teeth in there that says, you know, if
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: she doesn't pay the bills within ninety consecutive days, if
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: there's any bill out standing after ninety consecutive days, so
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: you can miss a bill but pay it, or you
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: move out of the house for six consecutive months, or
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: you know, put some trigger events in there. Of course
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: die as a trigger event. Well, then the house you know,
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: goes to everybody or gets sold and the money gets split,
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: So you lose your right in essence to live there
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: if you violate any of these rules. So always have
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: that mechanism in there to provide payment for the house.
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: Now I was like, that wasn't thought through or there
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: was no money here. I don't know. If there's money
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: and a house, well then you can say, well, I
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: know my daughter doesn't have the or my son doesn't
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: have the ability to pay these bills. So then I'm
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: going to leave the house in trust and a bucket
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: of money for the trustee, who probably would not be
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: the child living there, to make sure these bills are paid,
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: and that way it can be used. So the quick
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: answer to your question is yeah, I mean, whatever money's
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: in the trust, if you haven't taken it and it
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: wasn't allocated to you kids, then you know, if you're
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: the trustee and you want to use it to pay
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: to maintain the house so your sibling has a place
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: to live, I would say you could probably do it,
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: and then of course there won't be money for everybody else.
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: Right, It sounds like she's concerned that there isn't enough
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: money in the trust to support it for very long.
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so they're gonna have to talk with her and
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: find out, you know, do you have the ability to
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: go to work? Do you need to at least generate
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: enough money to pay real estate taxes and utilities and
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: keep the heat on?
• 31:04
  Speaker 5: Right?
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: If not, it's gonna be up. Unfortunately, it's gonna be
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: one of these things where the planning was sort of
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: done halfway, it wasn't fully thought through, and it'll now
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: be up to siblings to say, well, we can't have
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: a homeless sibling, so we need to figure out, Yeah,
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: we need to figure out something to do here. Maybe
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: it's sell the house, get as much money as we
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: can buy a little condo for you know something, you know,
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: figure out a way to do it. But yeah, it's
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: going to require it's going to require some thinking. But
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: you know what, folks, that's part of planning. Planning is
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: not just getting your your trust done, but thinking it through.
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: How is it going to work? Always?
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: So when I plan for people, I always tell them
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: I've used this comment over and over. I plan not
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: for today, but for whole life. Right. We plan for
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: whole life, so we got to think through it. So
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: and I think if you're going to get your planning started,
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: learning about what kind of trust is right for you
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: is also important. And I think a good place to
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: start would be this brand new guide, The Simplicity of
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: Joint Revocable Trusts. It's so much easier to fund. You
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: don't divide assets. And Folks, if you ever had a
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: large IRA. Let's say you've got a five million dollar estate,
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: but you know two million or three million is in
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: an IRA, well, we want to make sure we can
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: cram down all the non IRA assets on the first death.
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: A joint trust does that for you. It will show
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: you how you can shelter more assets on the first
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: death than you can with two trusts. It explains the
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: estate tax ramifications, how the if there's formulas in there
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: to show you how the taxes are saved. Get started
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: and it learned how to do your state plan. Get
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: the guide eight six six eight four eight five six
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: nine nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com. The Simplicity
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: of Joint Trusts eight sixty six eight four eight five
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: six nine nine or Legal Exchange Show dot org.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: Our last question comes from Bob in New Haven, Connecticut,
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: and Bob writes, my father transferred his home and investment
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: accounts to me seven years ago and recently died. The
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: home was worth around one million, but he had a
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: life estate, so I'm not worried about capital gains tax
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: on that. The investment accounts total around two million, and
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: the cost basis is really low. Is there any way
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: to get a step up on those assets like we
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: will with the home. I did send the dividend income
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: to him each month that I received. Sounds like he
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: wants an implied life estate on the dollars.
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's strange, you know, so an implied life state.
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: So we'll first we'll first explain that comment Susan to people.
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: You know, if if you have given away your house,
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: which he did, we can talk about that million dollar home.
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: But in that case he actually reserved, yes, the right
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: to live there. So you know, this Code section twenty
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: thirty six says, when you give away an asset, but
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: retain the right to the income or that's a b
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: or the right to enjoy the benefits of what you
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: gave away, you didn't technically give it away. Okay, they
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: say they say you kept a string on that item.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: So even if you didn't formally reserve a life estate, no.
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: This is the example of a formal reservation. Yeah, that
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: you actually kept that string. That's the item you kept
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: got and it pulls the entire asset back into the estate.
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: And so this million dollar home, even if he bought
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: it years ago, long ago, for very little money, all
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: the built in gain will go away because the full value,
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: not just the life estate piece, the full value of
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: the house is included in the estate. To get a
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: step up in basis, which is that's it eliminates it avoided, probated,
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: and eliminated the capital gain. To your point, Susan, what
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: if somebody just gave away their house but lived there,
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: paid the bills, did everything, maintained it. Well, then now
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: that's that implied. There's a court case back in that seventies,
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: that's seventy one, I think, where it's called an implied
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: life estate. You didn't reserve that nugget, You didn't actually
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: keep it. But the statute says if you give something
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: away and enjoy what you gave away, well then you
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: kept it. So even though there was no legal keeping
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: that caused it to be included anyway. Now let's shift
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: gears and say, how does that apply to the money. Yes,
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: not sure you're going to get there. It'll be interesting though.
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: In this case, you're saying that he gave away all
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: this investments full stop, didn't actually reserve anything. Although you're
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: saying that the kid decided to gift him the.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: Income because tax wise they would have to be on
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: the kid's tax returns.
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's my point. Who's picking up that capital gain
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: or that interest and dividends? Probably the kids? So you know,
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: did he did he actually retain No, he didn't retain anything,
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: and it was a completed gift. I think it would
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: be a stretch, although there might be some argument maybe
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: in that estate of Gwen case. Again, I'm always open
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: for these creativity ideas. But you could say, look, I
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: gave away my my asset and I continue to receive
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: the income. Therefore I should I should get it, and
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: so be interesting.
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: I would love to hear about that loophole.
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: I mean, people who have given away rental property but
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: continue to get the income. That's an argument. Maybe go
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: give it a shot, but instead do your planning in
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: the fact that simplicity of The joint revocable trust will
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: allow allow you to get that full step up in
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: basis and maybe a double Learn how to get it
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: eight six six eight four eight five six nine nine
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: or Legal Exchange Show dot com.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: If you have a question you'd like to ask Todd,
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: visit his website Legal Exchange Show dot com and click
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: on the ask Tod tab. Maybe I'll be able to
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: read your question on the air, and hopefully his answer
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: will stop you from becoming one of his next real
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: life stories. You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: with the law firm of Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Powers,
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group. We'll be
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: back with more after this quick break on the Legal
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: Exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: The state planning isn't just about taxes, It's about peace
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: of mind. At Cushing and Dolan, we believe your plan
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: should protect your family, not complicate your life. A joint
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: revocable trust can help you do both. It lets you
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: avoid probate, which means no court delays, no public filings,
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: and no stress for your loved ones. Your state's stay's
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: private and your family stays in control. Our new guide,
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: The Simplicity of Joint Revocable Trusts, also explains how a
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: trust can protect your children's inheritance from creditors, divorce, or
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: bad financial decisions down the road. This guide makes it
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: easy to understand why a joint trust may be the
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: smart move for your family's future. Call eight six six
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: eight four eight five six nine nine right now and
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: ask for your free copy of the Simplicity of Joint
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: Revocable Trusts. That's eight six six eight four eight five
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: six nine nine, or requested online from our website Legal
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: exchange show dot com. The proceeding was paid for in
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: The views expressed are solely those of Cushing and Dolan.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan in or Armstrong Advisory may contact you
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: offering legal or investment services. Cushing and Dolan in Armstrong
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: Advisory do not endorse each other. In are not affiliated HI.
• 38:41
  Speaker 5: This is Chuck Zada from the Armstrong Advisory Group. Your
• 38:43
  Speaker 5: home is more than just a place to live. It's
• 38:45
  Speaker 5: part of your story. In retirement, real estate can play
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  Speaker 5: a powerful role in how you manage your wealth and
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  Speaker 5: that need to be considered, which is why having a
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  Speaker 5: and preserves what matters most for your future. Get your
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• 39:28
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or any Armstrong
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: guide is specific financial, legal, or tax advice. Consult your
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: own financial tax into state planning advisors before making any
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: investment decisions. Armstrong may contact you to offer investment advisory services.
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• 40:42
  Speaker 1: Your tune to the legal exchange with Todd Lutsky. If
• 40:45
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• 40:48
  Speaker 1: Todd right now at eight six six eight four eight
• 40:50
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• 40:52
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• 40:55
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• 40:58
  Speaker 1: Exchange show dot com.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: Welcome back into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: Susan Powers, a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group,
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: and I'm joined, of course by Todd Lutsky, a partner
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: with the law firm of Cushing and Dolan with a
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: master's in taxation. Todd, I'd like to walk through the
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: hypothetical fact pattern that you have in this month's new
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: guide about the joint revocable trust. So in your guide,
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: you have a married couple. They're fifty five years old.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: They have a home primary home worth two million, a
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: VKA home worth two million, iras of a million, investments
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: of ten and they're all jointly owned except for the iras.
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: H what's they campy, right?
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: Three kids, three grandkids. I want to talk about the
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: benefits that they get that they'll realize by having that
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: joint revocable trust in place.
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: Okay, broad brush do we want.
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: To Yeah, we're going to talk about all the benefits
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: that they get. So let's talk about I mean the
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: kind of the no brainer for everybody, do you want
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: to go to probate? So they don't know what it is,
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: but they know they don't want it.
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: I just want to get my hands on the assets.
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: Fifteen million we're looking at for an estate yep, total
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: estate about fifteen million. Ten Yeah, okay, So just keep
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: that in mind, folks, because that's going to help us
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: with our benefit discussion today. So we got fifteen million. Now,
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: I'm sorry, reprobate the question probate so.
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: What it is? But they know they don't want to
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: go there.
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: This is certainly a very easy way to avoid probate.
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: You know, you simply retitle your assets. You retitle your
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: your bank accounts, your brokerage accounts, your deed to your home,
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: to the home, the vacation home. Right, not the iras.
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: You're absolutely right. The iras have to stay where they are.
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: But I think part of the beauty of a joint
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: trust is just what you're talking about, this funding idea.
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: You know, when you have a husband trust and a
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: wife trust, you say, okay, well, what do I have
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: to do? Do I have to put like one bank
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: account here and one bank account there? Do I have
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: to put you know, do I have to split my
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: accounts like when you go to even when you go
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: to fund them, well, even when you like help people
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: fund them. Let's say someone comes to you with a
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: joint account and you say, okay, I or I tell
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: you make that joint account half in one trust and
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: half in another trust. Yes, it's a lot of paperwork.
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: You cannot Yeah, you cannot take that joint account and
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: then just retitle half into each trust. Can't do it.
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: You have to create two separate individual accounts first, correct,
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: and then from those individual accounts you have to then
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: put them into the husband trust Life Trust. Not with
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: this So with the joint trust, you just throw it in. Yeah, right,
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: you can just throw the joint account in. You can
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: take that joint home, joint vacation home, need it directly in,
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: no need to the trust. And the reason there's no
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: need to split it is something in this trust called
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: a general power of appointment.
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: What does that mean in English?
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: That is the power that makes the trust, that really
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: makes the trust so wonderful. It says, well, well, two things.
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: Let me back up before I tell you that. First,
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: I have language in the trust that says jointly held
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: assets are treated as contributed one half by each perfect.
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: So I have the language in there so you don't
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: have to do the paperwork. Yeah, it's Oh, the joint
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: investment account went in and it says jointly held account. Okay,
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: we both contributed half. No problem. But what if for
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: some reason you didn't contribute half. What if one person
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: ended up having a bunch of accounts in their own
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: name and they and they just threw it in, Like
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: maybe the wife had a whole bunch of accounts in
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: her name and she just threw it in, and she
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: ended up putting seventy percent of the assets in and
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: he only put in, you know, thirty percent. Does it
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: matter No, because of this general power of appointment. I'm
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: going to tell you what that means in a minute,
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: because I want to explain, folks, what we're about to
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: talk about. This guide called the Simplicity of Joint Revocable Trusts.
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: It's all about the basis that's kind of the title.
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: It's this general power of appointment that is explained in
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: the document that really allows all of this, these positive
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: things to happen. This power of appointment is in here
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: and it explains how it causes the full amount of
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: the assets to be included in the estate on the
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: first death, and that's what we want, right. If we
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: can get full inclusion, then we don't really care who
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: dies first. We don't have to worry because you don't know,
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: and we can get a bigger step up in basis
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: because the assets in the trust will go to the
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: marital share and the remainder share, and even though they
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: were contributed by different people, you can still get a
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: full step up in basis. So it's so important to
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: understand that because the estate tax exemptions are so high
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: that we can cause inclusion, pay no estate taxes, and
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: win on the income tax side by getting a basis
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: step up. Call and get the guide, folks, it's going
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: to really help you understand not only basic estate planning,
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: but maybe the kind of trust that's right for you.
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: Eight sixty six eight four eight five six nine nine
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: or Legal Exchange Show dot com again eight six six
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: eight four eight five six nine nine or Legal Exchange
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: Show dot com.
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: So if it's one trust because you don't know who's
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: going to die first, that must help somehow yep, with
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: the estate taxes.
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: It does so let's go through this, and this is
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: where I'm going to spend a little more time on
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: the general power of appointments, just to try to hammer
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: this point home back to our idea. One spouse put
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: in seventy percent just because that's how they own the stuff. Yeah,
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: and the other one put in thirty. Does it matter?
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: Does it matter if one put one hundred percent in
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: and one put nothing in? Doesn't matter. Here's why this
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: general power appointment is language in the trust that says
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: two donors, right, donor one donor two. Each donor has
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: the power to direct where the other donors half goes. Okay,
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: So if somebody put in seventy and somebody put in thirty,
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: and let's say the person that put in thirty dies first, yep. Well,
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: we know that when you contribute assets to a trust
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: thirty percent, that thirty percent is going to be included
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: in that person's estate. They gave it away, they retain
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: the right to control and enjoy it. It's included in
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: their estate. We get that, But the seventy percent donor
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: is still living, there's no estate. Well, I want that
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: seventy percent included in the thirty percent. Donors who died estate,
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: I want to cram down more assets. How do I
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: do that? This power of appointment, says, donor with the
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: thirty percent dies has the power to direct where the
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: other donors half or in this case seventy percent the
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: other donors portion goes, including to himself, his estate, his
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: creditors of his estate. So dying, even though you never
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: exercise that power, you never actually direct where they go.
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: The fact that you died with the ability to direct
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: that that seventy percent come to you causes it to
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: be included in the estate of the first to die.
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: So now the first to die got his own thirty
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: and her seventy included. Yep, for the full hundred percent
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: in the estate. Now the beauty of that is so the.
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: Whole thing is tax right essentially.
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: Right, So let's say it. Let's say you know, if
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: it was a ten million dollar estate, there would have
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: only been three million that would have been included. Wow,
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: there's a lot more I can include and cramm down.
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: So I don't have to worry about future death taxes
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: federally ever, right, because now I got the whole ten
• 49:20
  Speaker 3: million and into the remainder share, which is our state
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: death tax. Here in mass we'll get the two million,
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: and the reque tip share that we call it the
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: special marital share will get eight million. Is there eight
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: and two is ten. The full ten million dollars is
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: included in the first.
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: Death no problem on the federal side.
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: On the federal side, we got a thirteen point nine
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: million dollar exemption. We have no death tax. It can
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: grow and grow and grow, and it will never be
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: taxed again in the surviving spouse's estate. And we got
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: a full step up in basis on all of those assets,
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: even the piece that was that came over for from
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: her to him and went in. There's actually there's revenue
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: rulings in this guide that are laid out that if
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: you read them, I mean, they are written so easy
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: to read, and it explains exactly what I'm talking about
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: as to how you get that full step up. And
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: remember only the eight million would be subject to tax
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: in Massachusetts anyway when the survivor dies.
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: Got it.
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: And there's even some solutions in here as to how
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: to fix that problem. Call and get the guide, folks.
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: The simplicity of joint revocable trusts, it's all about the
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: basis eight six six eight four, eight five, six ninety
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: nine or Legal Exchange show dot com and you can
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: download the guide right there.
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: Brand new this month, Todd Lutsky from the law firm
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: of Cushing and Dolan, thank you so much.
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Susan. It's always a pleasure.
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: I'm Susan Power as a financial advisor with the Armstrong
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: Advisory Group. We thank you for joining us today and
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: we'll be back again next week on the Legal Exchange
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: with Todd Lutsky.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: The state planning isn't just about taxes, it's about peace
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: of mind. At Cushing and Dolan, we believe your plan
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: should protect your family, not complicate your life. A joint
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: revocable trust can help you do both. It lets you
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: avoid probate, which means no court delays, no public filings,
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: and no stress for your loved ones. Your estate stays
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: private and your family stays in control. Our new guide,
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: The Simplicity of Joint Revocable Trusts, also explains how a
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: trust can protect your children's inheritance from creditors, divorce, or
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: bad financial decisions down the road. This guide makes it
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: easy to understand why a joint trust may be the
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: smart move for your family's future. Call eight sixty six
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: eight four eight five six ninety nine right now and
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: ask for your free copy of the Simplicity of Joint
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: Revocable Trusts. That's eight sixty six eight four eight five
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: six ninety nine, or requested online from our website Legal
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: exchange show dot com. The proceeding was paid for in
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: The views expressed are solely those of Cushing and Dolan.
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan and or Armstrong Advisory may contact you
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: offering legal or investment services. Cushing and Dolan in Armstrong
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: Advisory do not endorse each other in or not affiliate HI.
• 52:00
  Speaker 5: This is Chuck Zada from the Armstrong Advisory Group. Your
• 52:03
  Speaker 5: home is about more than where you live. It's a
• 52:05
  Speaker 5: big part of your financial life, and as you head
• 52:07
  Speaker 5: into retirement, certain questions may come up. Does the space
• 52:10
  Speaker 5: feel too large or too expensive to maintain? Does it
• 52:12
  Speaker 5: still fit your needs? But the taxes, insurance and upkeeper
• 52:15
  Speaker 5: starting to add up. Our new guide Owning, real Estate
• 52:18
  Speaker 5: and Retirement offers insight into how to decide what's right
• 52:21
  Speaker 5: for you should you stay, put downsize, or relocate to
• 52:24
  Speaker 5: an area with lower costs. We cover those issues as
• 52:27
  Speaker 5: well as how factors like property taxes, insurance premiums, and
• 52:30
  Speaker 5: local living expenses can impact your retirement budget and why
• 52:33
  Speaker 5: it's important to match your housing decisions to your long
• 52:36
  Speaker 5: term financial plan. Call us right now at eight hundred
• 52:39
  Speaker 5: three nine three for zero zero one. That's eight hundred
• 52:42
  Speaker 5: three nine three for zero zero one A request the
• 52:45
  Speaker 5: guide at Armstrong Advisory dot com.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or any Armstrong
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: Guide a specific financial, legal, or tax advice cansult your
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: own financial tax into state planning advisors before making any
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: investment decisions. Armstrong may contact you to offer investment advisory service.
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  Speaker 4: Mark Vonner is the CEO of Veterans Development Corporation. Mark
• 53:05
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  Speaker 4: many disabled veterans and their families has become a lifelong
• 53:37
  Speaker 4: goal for Mark, and it's why he's taken the time
• 53:40
  Speaker 4: to fully support the Disabled American Veterans Department of Massachusetts.
• 53:44
  Speaker 4: You can join Mark and help our great American heroes
• 53:47
  Speaker 4: today by making a donation to support the DAV Department
• 53:51
  Speaker 4: of Massachusetts. Please visit DAV five k dot Boston. That's
• 53:55
  Speaker 4: DAV five k dot Boston.