Latest / Skin Anarchy / Treating Skin from the Inside Out ft. BIOFOR

Transcript

Treating Skin from the Inside Out ft. BIOFOR · Skin Anarchy

0:00
SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, welcome back to Skin Anarchy.
0:03
SPEAKER_00: Today we're having a very fun conversation because we never get to talk about the world of professional grade skincare very much because it's usually, you know, kind of locked into the spas and the aesthetic clinics and stuff.
0:15
SPEAKER_00: So we don't really get that behind-the-scenes look into truly professional grade products.
0:20
SPEAKER_00: So with me today, I have the CEO and founder of Bio4, which is this amazing brand.
0:25
SPEAKER_00: They're truly innovating the space of professional grade products.
0:28
SPEAKER_00: So without further ado, please welcome Dr.
0:29
SPEAKER_00: Renit.
0:31
SPEAKER_00: Welcome, Dr.
0:31
SPEAKER_00: Ranit.
0:32
SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited to host you.
0:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, happy to be here with you.
0:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm excited to dive in.
0:37
SPEAKER_00: You know, I know you have a lot of science in your background, you know, in your educational background.
0:41
SPEAKER_00: And I'd love to really dive into the moment that, you know, you decided to launch Bio4.
0:46
SPEAKER_00: I mean, what was that moment of frustration for you where you thought, I need to start something on my own?
0:51
SPEAKER_01: So the turning point for me was the when I have noticed my first signs of aging at the age of 36.
0:58
SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, it happens toward the end of my undergraduate degree in biology, in this point where all of us students are deliberating which direction to take for the masters.
1:09
SPEAKER_01: And for me, it became very clear.
1:11
SPEAKER_01: So, biology for me is second career.
1:14
SPEAKER_01: My first career was I was a marketing manager with a degree in the business administration.
1:20
SPEAKER_01: But you know, since I was a kid and very young, I was very passionate about biology.
1:25
SPEAKER_01: I loved biology.
1:26
SPEAKER_01: I was always envious in the scientists that developed drugs and solutions to physical problems.
1:33
SPEAKER_01: I always wanted to be in this place.
1:36
SPEAKER_01: So at the age of 32, I took myself back again to the university and signed to the first degree in biology.
1:44
SPEAKER_01: And when I saw my first signs of aging, I was really frustrated.
1:48
SPEAKER_01: This was the frustration.
1:49
SPEAKER_01: I wasn't willing to accept them.
1:52
SPEAKER_01: And this is when I knew what I wanted to do further, what I want to explore.
1:57
SPEAKER_01: I wanted to explore skin aging, all the ingredients involved in fixing the signs of aging, all the methods, why skin agents, what are the processes inside.
2:09
SPEAKER_01: And I wanted to develop solutions to, you know, to slow the down the signs of aging, to treat aging skin, to let us have even attractive skin at any age.
2:20
SPEAKER_01: And I wanted to develop solutions.
2:22
SPEAKER_01: I knew that those have to be very powerful and very targeted solutions, quick and uh that can deliver fast and visible results.
2:31
SPEAKER_01: And this kind of product should be very concentrated and cannot be, you know, offered on stores on the shelf, uh, can be shelf products.
2:41
SPEAKER_01: They should be offered by professionals.
2:43
SPEAKER_01: And after uh skin analysis and understanding the skin and tailoring the product to the customer and and you know, monitoring the skin and being available in case of side effects, which we we do have.
2:57
SPEAKER_01: We have side effects.
2:59
SPEAKER_01: So such kind of product cannot be picked from the shelf, at least not if you want to really get a change in the skin.
3:07
SPEAKER_01: And uh that what and how and why I launched Biofor, a professional skincare brand that works through uh professionals.
3:16
SPEAKER_00: That's really interesting because you know, you started with biology.
3:19
SPEAKER_00: I think that's very fascinating to me that you have this very deep-rooted understanding of the biology that goes into understanding skin, you know, and what really is anti-aging?
3:29
SPEAKER_00: What does it mean to have beautiful, healthy skin?
3:32
SPEAKER_00: I think many times founders don't come with this understanding, you know.
3:35
SPEAKER_00: So it's very, very interesting to me.
3:37
SPEAKER_00: You know, what was that true foundation for you that you wanted to build the brand on?
3:42
SPEAKER_00: I know you mentioned the ingredients, but like what was that key foundation that you said this is where I want to base my products off of?
3:50
SPEAKER_01: You know, I entered the market with a purpose to deliver powerful, effective solutions for skin concerns.
3:58
SPEAKER_01: So it's a mission and not it's not just a product line.
4:01
SPEAKER_01: And you know, it began with my personal interest to treat aging skin, but I knew I'm going to serve cosmetologists and aestheticians, and they treat not only signs of aging, but also you know, acne and pigmentation and texture problems, and so dug deep in those topics because they are uh important as well, and they are very interesting, very fascinating, they diminish the quality of life.
4:27
SPEAKER_01: I was intending to learn them, study them deeply, and come up with solutions for all kinds of skin concerns.
4:35
SPEAKER_01: And the thing is, when you want to solve a skin issue, you have to understand skin, you have to understand what went wrong.
4:42
SPEAKER_01: You can't start with a line, you have to start with understanding of the physiology and pathologies and the behavior of the skin and skin processes, anything you want to fix.
4:53
SPEAKER_01: If you want to fix, if the mechanic wants to fix a car, you have to understand what went wrong.
4:58
SPEAKER_01: Only then can you fix the car.
5:00
SPEAKER_01: And if the doctor wants to deal with a kidney disease, you have to know how the kidneys function and what can be wrong.
5:08
SPEAKER_01: And the skin is no different.
5:10
SPEAKER_01: It's an organ, it's a it's a complex, very complicated organ.
5:14
SPEAKER_01: And every change that you see on the outside is rooted in changes in the inside, in the behavior, in the structure, and in processes in the skin.
5:25
SPEAKER_01: You have to understand them.
5:26
SPEAKER_01: And in order for you to be able to plan a product that can change the skin, this product should be based on a deep understanding of biology.
5:37
SPEAKER_01: And not just the product, but the way of delivering the product and treat it with the product.
5:42
SPEAKER_01: This has to be based on knowledge in the biology of the skin.
5:46
SPEAKER_01: That's why Biofro didn't start with the usual checklist day cream, night cream, serum, lotion, uh mask, and and so on.
5:55
SPEAKER_01: This is the this is not uh this wasn't the vision.
5:58
SPEAKER_01: The goal was to create targeted solutions that can fix skin concern and they can come with any form.
6:05
SPEAKER_01: They can come with is a cream or is the serum, whatever with the the carrier or the vest vehicle to deliver the actives inside the skin and change it.
6:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense actually.
6:18
SPEAKER_00: And I agree with everything you said.
6:19
SPEAKER_00: I think that because we know that the skin is an organ, we understand that there's a very dynamic organ.
6:25
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, that is something that you know oftentimes we don't see that addressed in a lot of skincare brands.
6:33
SPEAKER_00: You know, that's the truth.
6:34
SPEAKER_00: A lot of times people are not approaching it from this understanding that, you know, you have to understand how the skin turns over, you know, what's going on to make it, you know, people say, Oh, I want glowing skin.
6:45
SPEAKER_00: Well, what does that mean?
6:46
SPEAKER_00: You know, on in a scientific way.
6:47
SPEAKER_00: What does glowing skin mean?
6:48
SPEAKER_00: So I think it's very relevant what you pointed out here, you know, and I want to actually do some myth busting, if you don't mind.
6:55
SPEAKER_00: You know, there's a lot of um misinformation.
6:56
SPEAKER_00: And I think also there's this widespread belief that serums are the most active product, right?
7:03
SPEAKER_00: That you can have in a skincare line, you know, more so than things like creams and and other things.
7:08
SPEAKER_00: So, what is the actual truth about this?
7:10
SPEAKER_00: I mean, is that true?
7:11
SPEAKER_00: Is that false?
7:12
SPEAKER_00: How does that work?
7:13
SPEAKER_01: Yes, I come across this myth a lot, not only with uh uh end user, but even with many, many professionals.
7:21
SPEAKER_01: It's very common.
7:22
SPEAKER_01: So I think it may come from uh the this incorrect information that they get in their initial training, uh, the cosmeticians.
7:31
SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, but but when I discuss with them, with the professionals, and we go deep in their deep beliefs on about serums, and we break it down and see one by one all the thoughts that they adapted without checking, and all the other people's thoughts that they believed too without uh asking themselves, is this logic?
7:52
SPEAKER_01: Can this be true?
7:53
SPEAKER_01: So when we look at it, we see the simple truth that it's far from the compelling beliefs that they have.
7:59
SPEAKER_01: So let's just do the process.
8:01
SPEAKER_01: So I ask cosmeticians what's the difference between a cream and a serum?
8:06
SPEAKER_01: And I get several answers.
8:08
SPEAKER_01: They tell me uh serums are more active, serums are more concentrated, serum contains smaller molecules, serums help bigger molecules to penetrate the skin.
8:21
SPEAKER_01: And so we try to break it down one by one.
8:24
SPEAKER_01: I ask them who decides uh which ingredient and in what concentration to put in a serum?
8:30
SPEAKER_01: So the answer the manufacturer, correct?
8:34
SPEAKER_01: And if I, the manufacturer, decide to make a cream with 3% matrixal, which is a biomimatic peptide, and also a serum with 3% matrixal.
8:46
SPEAKER_01: Those are the only uh uh active ingredients, just matrix cell in the serum and it is the in the cream.
8:52
SPEAKER_01: So, would the serum with matrixal be more active than the cream?
8:57
SPEAKER_01: Would it be more concentrated than the cream?
9:01
SPEAKER_01: Would the matrixal molecule be smaller because it's it's in the serum?
9:06
SPEAKER_01: So it's not.
9:07
SPEAKER_01: And we have to remember creams, serums, gels, those are carrier.
9:12
SPEAKER_01: They're meant to carry active ingredients inside the skin.
9:16
SPEAKER_01: The skin.
9:17
SPEAKER_01: If I would plan a serum with, let's say, 5% and 3% niacinamide, those green tint niacinamide are meant to kind of leave the serum and enter the skin.
9:30
SPEAKER_01: Not all the other 40 ingredients, the emollients and emulsifiers and the perfume and the you know emactants and so on.
9:37
SPEAKER_01: Just the active ingredients.
9:39
SPEAKER_01: The same way, if I would uh plan a cream with this niacinamide and green tea, it wouldn't be less effective.
9:47
SPEAKER_01: Those are the same actives.
9:50
SPEAKER_01: The manufacturer can choose any ingredients and put them in cream and in the serum as well, and they will be uh active as well.
10:01
SPEAKER_01: It's not that the serum will be more active, and another thing that it's not that the serum can help big molecules penetrate the skin.
10:10
SPEAKER_01: If the molecule is big uh too big to and and it cannot inherently penetrate the skin, it will penetrate the skin because it's in a serum.
10:20
SPEAKER_01: The serum doesn't make tiny holes in the skin or ingredient that they push the big molecules with little uh tiny ropes into the skin.
10:28
SPEAKER_01: That there's no such ingredients, and even even if there were, couldn't we put it put them in a cream?
10:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
10:36
SPEAKER_01: So actually, the the only uh argument we cannot uh argue with is that the serum is more uh liquid and the cream is more creamy.
10:46
SPEAKER_01: It's the the consistency is it's thicker, less liquid.
10:51
SPEAKER_00: No, that's really that's really interesting because I think that's something that no one really discusses, right?
10:57
SPEAKER_00: Is this idea of like we're really buying whatever texture we prefer, you know, in the product.
11:02
SPEAKER_00: It's not really about exactly what you said, it's not about really is it more active or not.
11:07
SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of times users don't, I mean consumers, everybody doesn't really associate this because in our minds we think, okay, the serum goes on first, you know what I mean?
11:17
SPEAKER_00: So it's like they think, oh, it goes on first, so it must be the most active.
11:21
SPEAKER_00: And it's not true, you're right.
11:23
SPEAKER_00: You know, it really depends on what's in the serum.
11:26
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, with that, I I wanted to congratulate you.
11:29
SPEAKER_00: You just won the gold award for a skin renewal serum that BioR4 has.
11:33
SPEAKER_00: Congratulations on that.
11:34
SPEAKER_00: When is there so I you know let's really debunk this.
11:37
SPEAKER_00: So, like, when is the real right time to incorporate serums into our skincare routine?
11:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, actually, this year we won three golden awards.
11:46
SPEAKER_01: One of them, as you say, yeah, yeah.
11:49
SPEAKER_01: One of them is for a serum uh called ProLyft uh to rejuvenate the skin.
11:54
SPEAKER_01: And uh for your question, uh actually, you can triple your question because BioFor has three serums, not just one.
12:02
SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah.
12:03
SPEAKER_01: Uh, so that's the first question that the cosmetologist or cosmeticians ask me after we finish debunking the serum myth.
12:11
SPEAKER_01: So, what do you have?
12:12
SPEAKER_01: Uh C serum, they ask me.
12:14
SPEAKER_01: We have serum vitamin C.
12:16
SPEAKER_01: So the answer is for your question: you introduce a serum whenever the skin needs an ingredient, or one ingredient or more, and this ingredient is included in a serum.
12:29
SPEAKER_01: So let's take, for example, vitamin C.
12:31
SPEAKER_01: When do we think the skin needs vitamin C with the professionals?
12:36
SPEAKER_01: Whenever, for example, this is a smoker skin or the skin is exposed to free radicals or to stress, or whenever uh this is dehydrated skin, or whenever we want to boost collagen production, all of those treatment goals uh indicate that we can give a vitamin C to improve the skin.
12:54
SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, we could give vitamin C cream as well, and it would do the same job, by the way.
13:02
SPEAKER_01: But many times the client already has moisturizer, a lot of them have.
13:07
SPEAKER_01: And you know, it doesn't sound so natural for a client to apply a cream on top of a cream.
13:14
SPEAKER_01: You know, it sounds strange, but when it's a serum, it sounds natural.
13:18
SPEAKER_01: You know, everybody loves serum, the cosmetician, the client, everybody loves the serum, and it's very natural to apply a serum uh beneath the cream.
13:26
SPEAKER_01: So we didn't just sell another product, or we didn't say just gave automatically serum because it because every woman uh need a serum.
13:35
SPEAKER_01: We gave the the solution, we gave an ingredient that the skin needed based on skin analysis and understanding the needs of the skin.
13:44
SPEAKER_01: For us, it's a smart recommendation, it's not just the cons a consistency.
13:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, though that makes a lot of sense.
13:51
SPEAKER_00: I think this idea of like ingredient ingredient like synergy, right?
13:56
SPEAKER_00: Because that's where I think a lot of people get confused is that you know, we we are so tied to this ritual of skin care.
14:02
SPEAKER_00: You know, people say, you know, I need to do these steps and this routine, otherwise, I'm not gonna get the benefits.
14:08
SPEAKER_00: And I've said this before on the podcast where I say, I like to think of it like we have skin cells like in a petri dish, and whatever you're putting on top of that is the treatment, right, for those cells.
14:18
SPEAKER_00: So it's just like that.
14:20
SPEAKER_00: And it's the same understanding I think that consumers need to have is that your cells are being exposed no matter what, you know, whether it's a serum, a cream, a toner, you're getting exposed to whatever active is there, and it's up to you to decide what am I gonna pair, you know, together in terms of ingredients.
14:37
SPEAKER_00: And that's I think that's where a lot of people get lost in that whole conversation, right?
14:41
SPEAKER_00: It's like we we are so tied to this cultural understanding of this is how skincare routines are supposed to be, you know, one, two, three, four, five.
14:50
SPEAKER_00: But it's not the case.
14:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:52
SPEAKER_00: So I want to talk about this idea of you know, ingredients infusion and understanding like, you know, what ingredients are safe to use through things like microneedling, you know, microneedling and ultrasound.
15:03
SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about that a little bit.
15:05
SPEAKER_00: Um, ingredient infusion.
15:07
SPEAKER_00: If you could educate.
15:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:09
SPEAKER_01: So this idea, uh, as we know, as we all know, really sparks the imagination of skin therapists and clinicians, infusing of ingredients.
15:20
SPEAKER_01: So basically, we're speaking about treatment when uh we take cocktails or MPLs and infuse the ingredients via electroporation and ultrasound and maybe other devices.
15:32
SPEAKER_01: And this treatment is performed once in a month or once in three months.
15:37
SPEAKER_01: The manufacturers that produce these cocktails they say those are very concentrated cocktails of vitamins and peptides and minerals, and so.
15:47
SPEAKER_01: And you know, many clinicians, many cosmeticians are very fascinated.
15:52
SPEAKER_01: They they view them like the fountain of youth, the magical potion that we give to the skin, and it wakes up and wakes up to life.
16:00
SPEAKER_01: I always looked at those this kind of uh treatments and I didn't understand.
16:05
SPEAKER_01: You know, I as I come from science, I try to understand the clinical logic behind every treatment, and I didn't find one.
16:13
SPEAKER_01: I did not find.
16:14
SPEAKER_01: And let me share with you the why.
16:17
SPEAKER_01: So, first I want to remind something that many, maybe many clinicians do, you uh probably know it, but most of the uh ingredients inside this cocktail have therapeutic windows.
16:31
SPEAKER_01: This is the range of concentration uh within the the ingredient works.
16:36
SPEAKER_01: Below that we won't get the benefit, and uh above this therapeutic window, we won't get better results, we won't.
16:45
SPEAKER_01: Even in some cases, uh, if we exceed the the upper limit of the therapeutic window, we will get side effects.
16:53
SPEAKER_01: And uh even in peptides, for example, they have very narrow therapeutic window.
16:58
SPEAKER_01: If we exceed it, we get the opposite effect.
17:01
SPEAKER_01: So it's not the more the better.
17:03
SPEAKER_01: We should understand with active ingredients, it's not the more the better, it's the exact concentration that was established.
17:11
SPEAKER_01: So, this is for the claim that uh the the injections or the the uh cocktails are very concentrated, and maybe we now that we see them, we can deal with them.
17:24
SPEAKER_01: So many therapists look at the skin like they think the skin acts like a camel, you know, this camel that can drink a lot of water, and in the desert it can manage without water two months, three months.
17:38
SPEAKER_01: So only camels do that.
17:40
SPEAKER_01: Our skin doesn't function like this.
17:43
SPEAKER_01: We don't have in the skin tiny storage unit with tiny storage guys that get all those vitamins and keep them and then slowly, slowly releases them every day according to the skin's needs.
17:57
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't happen like that.
17:58
SPEAKER_01: The the skin doesn't uh work in uh intensive loading, it doesn't work like that.
18:05
SPEAKER_01: The skin, like the body, needs every day, over the day, the the actives that are essential for healthy functioning.
18:14
SPEAKER_01: So that's the first thing.
18:16
SPEAKER_01: And another thing that I want to pull and and take it to the daylight and look at it uh in the eye, the mistake that we do, we professionals do, between uh methods and goals or means and goals.
18:32
SPEAKER_01: So we should have every one of us professionals have should have therapeutic goals.
18:38
SPEAKER_01: Therapeutic goals are, for example, even toned skin, skin without acne, cleared of pigmentation, firmer skin.
18:45
SPEAKER_01: Okay, we define a therapeutic goals in means like uh of how the skin looks after the process.
18:53
SPEAKER_01: So I ask the professional as infusing ingredients is it a therapeutic goal?
19:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah is it a therapeutic goal?
19:02
SPEAKER_01: Is it kind of appearance or maybe it's a method?
19:06
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so they give it a little thought and and they have to realize it's not a goal, it's a method.
19:14
SPEAKER_01: It surprises many of them, by the way.
19:17
SPEAKER_01: So they see it's not as they see that it's not a goal but a method, we must ask, okay, so what's the goal?
19:24
SPEAKER_01: And here I can uh here are several goals like firmer skin and tighter skin and skin without pores or lesser pores or less pigmentation.
19:34
SPEAKER_01: So I urge them to take every such uh goal and ask themselves about each one of them three questions.
19:43
SPEAKER_01: Question one, let's take firming, for example, uh, as the goal.
19:48
SPEAKER_01: Question one which ingredients can firm the skin in the cocktail?
19:54
SPEAKER_01: They don't always know what what's inside the cocktail.
19:57
SPEAKER_01: Many times they don't know.
19:58
SPEAKER_01: So let's think which ingredient can firm the skin?
20:02
SPEAKER_01: So they ask they tell me vitamin A and vitamin C and biometic peptides.
20:08
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
20:09
SPEAKER_01: Question two are they capable of penetrating the skin with simple application, daily application?
20:16
SPEAKER_01: So we have to admit that uh yes, they can uh penetrate the skin.
20:20
SPEAKER_01: And question three Do you think really that once in a month or once in three months, if you apply these ingredients, can it firm the skin?
20:32
SPEAKER_01: And I will remind you, there is no slow release, and there's no meaning of high concentration.
20:38
SPEAKER_01: Could it happen?
20:40
SPEAKER_01: So I I strongly recommend every clinician to take all of the therapeutic goals that they expect to get from these infusions and honestly and strictly and very precisely ask themselves all of those questions.
20:56
SPEAKER_01: And you know, they I promise that you will get very surprising answers.
21:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I love that.
21:03
SPEAKER_00: I love that you said that.
21:04
SPEAKER_00: That is brilliant, actually, because you know, this is something that nobody asks about skin.
21:10
SPEAKER_00: Nobody talks about this with the skin.
21:11
SPEAKER_00: And it's very confusing to me, right?
21:13
SPEAKER_00: As well, because when you it's exactly what you said, when you're exposing your body, no matter what organ it is, to an extreme amount of something, right?
21:22
SPEAKER_00: Whatever you're dealing with, whether it's a pharmaceutical, uh, even vitamins, right?
21:27
SPEAKER_00: Something like that, you will put it into shock.
21:29
SPEAKER_00: It will go into shock state.
21:31
SPEAKER_00: Like the cells will react very aggressively to that.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: So it's very, very true what you're saying in that you have to understand how do cells respond?
21:39
SPEAKER_00: Does it matter in the overall, you know, in the overall goal that you have?
21:43
SPEAKER_00: And then also like just the physiology of what's gonna happen later.
21:47
SPEAKER_00: You know, a lot of these treatments, like you said, people go for like once a month, right?
21:51
SPEAKER_00: They'll go to their aesthetician, they'll go to wherever they go, the dermatologist, and say, I want this once a month treatment.
21:57
SPEAKER_00: But then nobody's asking what happens.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: After you, you know, for the next 29 days, what's going on with your skin?
22:04
SPEAKER_00: You know, are you are you, you know, still kind of chasing that goal?
22:08
SPEAKER_00: Are you still meeting your goal at the end of the day?
22:10
SPEAKER_00: You're probably not, you know, because after you get that one thing done, you're not taking care of your skin or you're not, you know what I mean, doing the everyday routine that you should be doing to maintain.
22:20
SPEAKER_00: And this is a very big topic, actually, you know, it applies to everybody across the board, not just in the professional world, but I think even the brands that are more towards the non-professional side, you have to ask yourself that.
22:31
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like, what are you really selling to people at the end of the day?
22:35
SPEAKER_00: Are you selling a promise, like a you know, a marketing gimmick, or is it really how the skin works?
22:40
SPEAKER_00: So I love that.
22:41
SPEAKER_00: I really love that you brought that up.
22:43
SPEAKER_01: I I want to add another thing.
22:44
SPEAKER_01: All the information that we have on ingredients is gathered from uh studies that were conducted with applying the ingredients, daily application, uh sometimes twice a day, and not injecting them.
22:58
SPEAKER_01: So, what do you think?
23:00
SPEAKER_01: And and of course, the the we we got the outcomes from applying the ingredients, not from injecting.
23:06
SPEAKER_01: So, why did you think it should work?
23:08
SPEAKER_01: On what on what basis?
23:12
SPEAKER_00: Right, exactly.
23:13
SPEAKER_00: That's very true.
23:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like nobody talks about that, and this is actually very true, you know, in terms of medicine and anything that has to do with the human body, like the modality with through which you deliver ingredients, deliver drugs is the most important, I think.
23:28
SPEAKER_00: And it's really because your body has it's a the most advanced machine that we know of, right?
23:33
SPEAKER_00: So it's going to adapt, it has to go through its normal process to adapt.
23:37
SPEAKER_00: And we don't, we completely bypass that by doing things that are kind of, I think, contradictory to normal physiology, you know?
23:44
SPEAKER_00: And so it really makes you wonder with all of the all of the treatments that are out there and all of the things that we as consumers are every day going for and opting in for, do we understand what this is going to do?
23:57
SPEAKER_00: Like right now, I'll give you an example that's really perplexing for me.
24:00
SPEAKER_00: I'm seeing this huge buzz right now in the PDRN skincare and all of this stuff people are talking about.
24:06
SPEAKER_00: But then it's exactly what you said.
24:08
SPEAKER_00: You have trials people have done with injecting it, you have trials people have done with, you know, with topical, but then we're not using it like that as consumers, you know, we're using it in a totally different way.
24:18
SPEAKER_00: So it's really interesting that the world of beauty and skin health, like the data doesn't really often match the modality through which it's being practiced, you know, that using that same ingredient or that same treatment.
24:31
SPEAKER_00: It's very true, you know, it's it's across the board.
24:34
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, very fascinating.
24:35
SPEAKER_00: I I want to actually ask you, how do you define what an active skincare product is?
24:41
SPEAKER_00: You know, what does that mean scientifically when somebody says this is active skincare?
24:45
SPEAKER_01: First, yeah, I I rely all uh only on scientific validation, deciding uh on it on an on an ingredient.
24:52
SPEAKER_01: I don't go with buzzwords or trends of kind of uh the articles that follow the internet.
24:59
SPEAKER_01: Because we need to remember the skin is an organ.
25:02
SPEAKER_01: When we we want to treat an organ, this is science, and we have to collect the science.
25:08
SPEAKER_01: Now you are you're asking, how do you decide what's your science?
25:12
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, when I check clinical studies um papers, I always check uh who is behind it.
25:20
SPEAKER_01: Uh whether the one of the authors works for this ingredients company, whether it is funded by a cosmetics company, any kind of uh conflict of interest.
25:30
SPEAKER_01: This is a term, as you know, conflict of interest.
25:33
SPEAKER_01: And uh any uh paper has to uh claim if there is a conflict of interest.
25:39
SPEAKER_01: So I uh try to rely only on uh papers and clinical studies that are objective, and this is how I assess uh ingredients.
25:49
SPEAKER_01: But you know, having said that, the field of uh active ingredients is evolving super fast.
25:55
SPEAKER_01: I get dozens of emails every week about new ingredients, and I read them, and you know, I get with every new ingredient, I get uh this uh dossier.
26:06
SPEAKER_01: It's uh it's a pack of information with the lab tests and the internal uh studies that these manufacturers have done about these new ingredients, and I read them and I try to understand the clinical logic behind the mechanism they claim.
26:23
SPEAKER_01: And some of them sound interesting.
26:26
SPEAKER_01: You know, I I apply my experience, of course.
26:28
SPEAKER_01: I take all of it with a grain of salt.
26:30
SPEAKER_01: This is not so objective, but uh, you know, not every ingredient is glycolic acid or Q10 or Centella ciatica, not every ingredient will get a university grade study.
26:43
SPEAKER_01: Most of them, most of the new ones won't get.
26:47
SPEAKER_01: So I really try to understand this and ask myself whether I see here a potential.
26:54
SPEAKER_01: And whenever I do see a potential, based on my experience, I ask them to get a sample and I make ice cream or test serum.
27:03
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's the same.
27:05
SPEAKER_01: We spoke about that, and I give to my test groups.
27:08
SPEAKER_01: I have uh my test groups that uh experience the those uh ingredients and give me feedbacks, and I'm trying to understand what we're dealing with and whether this is really a potential that we can uh move forward with.
27:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that makes sense actually.
27:23
SPEAKER_00: Uh, it's very fascinating that you said that because we never get to see much about the ingredients, like you know, the new and emerging ones till they're already out in the market, unfortunately.
27:33
SPEAKER_00: You know, so it's very I think it's very important to do that sifting through of like understanding how do the ingredients really work.
27:39
SPEAKER_00: Because yeah, it's not like academia, right?
27:42
SPEAKER_00: Where we're testing like cancer drugs or something and you have so many papers and so many, so much data, it's often very lacking.
27:49
SPEAKER_00: So I think it's uh yeah, it's very interesting that you're doing your own kind of testing of these ingredients and figuring out does this actually work, you know, in the in the actual use.
27:59
SPEAKER_00: That's very cool.
28:00
SPEAKER_00: So, what do you see for like, you know, because Vio4, I love your products by the way.
28:04
SPEAKER_00: I want I never got to say this, you know, so far.
28:06
SPEAKER_00: I really love them, and I think that it it shows how much you know precision you've taken with picking what is offered in the line.
28:15
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's very unique, you know, in today's world and the way that skincare is evolving, what I'm seeing every day is more brands are popping up and it's the same thing over and over and over.
28:27
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
28:27
SPEAKER_00: Like it's the same stuff, and no one's really focusing on exactly what we've discussed here, but this idea of precision skincare, you know, where they're really figuring out this is what I need, this is how my skin will respond, this is what I expect to happen.
28:42
SPEAKER_00: No one's doing that.
28:43
SPEAKER_00: And so, what is your viewpoint about the skincare industry?
28:47
SPEAKER_00: I mean, where do where do you see the future of skincare headed?
28:50
SPEAKER_01: Well, we have some uh trends and shifts in the market.
28:53
SPEAKER_01: One of them is the key evolution in the uh we will have to embrace the rise of the lifespan, the the life expectancy, the lifespan.
29:02
SPEAKER_01: And and when we speak wellness, we we say uh health span.
29:06
SPEAKER_01: Health span is the the years that we live in in good health.
29:09
SPEAKER_01: And I think we in the cosmetics industry should embrace the term beauty span.
29:15
SPEAKER_01: That's a new one, you won't find it in Google.
29:17
SPEAKER_02: I love that.
29:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so beauty span is how long our skin can be heavy and cared for and vibrant, and we we have to think about the older skin because this is an issue, and and uh and beyond the 50s and the and the the 50s and the 60s, we should care for the more uh aging skin, like the 17 and 80s, which they have very unique characteristics.
29:45
SPEAKER_01: This uh the skin have not the not the usual menopausal skin of the 50s and the 60s.
29:51
SPEAKER_01: We have to find the ways, uh the treatments, the products that can uh be suited to this kind of skin.
29:59
SPEAKER_01: So this is one uh uh this is one good uh way to go uh with and another thing which is quite related is the field of senescent cells.
30:10
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure you've heard on that uh this term senescent cells or zombie cells, so they're all over the body, not just in our face, and they edge the body, they they linger, there are dysfunctional cells that linger in the body and accelerate this the process of aging.
30:29
SPEAKER_01: And uh there are very promising uh studies that target those cells or their uh byproducts in order to slow down the aging from the inside out.
30:41
SPEAKER_01: So that's a fascinating topic that's uh in development.
30:46
SPEAKER_01: Also, we see a progress in carrying delivery systems uh of many kinds.
30:51
SPEAKER_01: One of them is is uh uh microcapsules that can uh not only protect ingredients or stabilize them or prevent irritation, it happens, but also to deliver more of these ingredients in the skin.
31:06
SPEAKER_01: So it goes deeper, but also it utilizes most of the ingredients, so it allows us to put a lower concentration and still get results.
31:18
SPEAKER_01: That's very important, especially because this time we have a very strict uh regulation about the ingredients, and another uh fascinating thing is genetic-based skin care.
31:30
SPEAKER_01: And uh, with the test, you get the results, you get your genetic skin genetic map.
31:37
SPEAKER_01: So they test genes that are related to skin's behavior and appearance.
31:42
SPEAKER_01: And I can share with you that Bio4 is building an AI AI-powered uh tool to help uh the end user as well as the cosmeticians.
31:53
SPEAKER_01: So at the end user uh part they can uh upload uh very clear photos and uh add some details, and they will have a general recommendation to treat their skin, and also it will uh uh refer them to the nearest uh cosmetician and according to their location.
32:13
SPEAKER_00: Wow, that's really fascinating.
32:15
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
32:15
SPEAKER_00: I've been watching AI and how much it's transforming you know the world of especially like longevity and stuff.
32:22
SPEAKER_00: That's very, very novel for you to do this.
32:24
SPEAKER_00: I think that we need we need this kind of thing because you're absolutely right in everything you said.
32:29
SPEAKER_00: I've been, you know, also following along, and genetics is the future, you know.
32:33
SPEAKER_00: If we can figure out like genetics, epigenetics, all of these like you know, blueprints that define how our skin ages and also how to kind of tailor and again that precision medicine component, you know, this is gonna be completely game-changing.
32:49
SPEAKER_00: Very cool.
32:50
SPEAKER_00: I agree.
32:51
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
32:51
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm very excited.
32:52
SPEAKER_00: I love biofor, and I I think what you're doing is so, so wonderful for the industry, and you're really leading with science.
32:59
SPEAKER_00: And I think that we don't see enough of that, you know.
33:01
SPEAKER_00: And I think uh for anyone listening out there, whether you're consumers or you're professionals in the skin health space, I think it's very important to ask yourself these questions of where does the science make sense?
33:12
SPEAKER_00: You know, where does it lead you in your understanding, in your practice?
33:17
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and I think that's it's something really valid, you know.
33:20
SPEAKER_00: Everything we've discussed here is something to think about.
33:22
SPEAKER_00: So thank you so much, Dr.
33:23
SPEAKER_00: Rani.
33:24
SPEAKER_00: This has been so wonderful to host you and to learn from you.
33:26
SPEAKER_00: It's been wonderful.
33:27
SPEAKER_01: My pleasure.
33:28
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
33:30
SPEAKER_01: Thanks.
33:32
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