Latest / Deep Transformation / Zen for a World on Fire: How Zen Helps Us to Wake Up, Grow Up & Rise to the Challenges of Our Time

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Zen for a World on Fire: How Zen Helps Us to Wake Up, Grow Up & Rise to the Challenges of Our Time · Deep Transformation

• 0:00
  Welcome
• 0:00
  to
• 0:00
  our
• 0:00
  conversation
• 0:01
  with
• 0:01
  Zen
• 0:02
  teachers
• 0:02
  Diane
• 0:03
  Musho
• 0:03
  Hamilton
• 0:04
  and
• 0:04
  Gabriel
• 0:04
  Wilson,
• 0:05
  in
• 0:05
  which
• 0:05
  we
• 0:05
  discuss
• 0:06
  their
• 0:06
  new
• 0:06
  book,
• 0:06
  Waking
• 0:07
  up
• 0:07
  and
• 0:07
  Growing
• 0:08
  Up.
• 0:08
  This
• 0:08
  is
• 0:08
  one
• 0:08
  of
• 0:08
  the
• 0:09
  key
• 0:09
  ideas
• 0:09
  that
• 0:09
  integral
• 0:10
  Spirituality
• 0:10
  has
• 0:11
  brought
• 0:11
  into
• 0:11
  the
• 0:11
  world.
• 0:12
  Waking
• 0:12
  up
• 0:12
  does
• 0:13
  not
• 0:13
  fix
• 0:13
  all
• 0:14
  the
• 0:14
  problems
• 0:14
  of
• 0:14
  our
• 0:15
  wounded
• 0:15
  selves.
• 0:15
  We
• 0:16
  must
• 0:16
  continue
• 0:16
  our
• 0:17
  individual
• 0:17
  development
• 0:18
  as
• 0:18
  well
• 0:18
  as
• 0:18
  the
• 0:18
  realization
• 0:19
  of
• 0:19
  our
• 0:19
  deepest,
• 0:20
  truest
• 0:20
  nature.
• 0:25
  Welcome
• 0:25
  to
• 0:26
  Deep
• 0:26
  Transformation,
• 0:27
  Self,
• 0:28
  Society,
• 0:28
  Spirit,
• 0:29
  life-enhancing,
• 0:30
  paradigm-rattling
• 0:31
  conversations
• 0:32
  with
• 0:32
  cutting
• 0:33
  edge
• 0:33
  thinkers,
• 0:34
  contemplatives
• 0:34
  and
• 0:35
  activists
• 0:35
  with
• 0:36
  Dr.
• 0:36
  Roger
• 0:36
  Walsh
• 0:37
  and
• 0:37
  John
• 0:37
  Dupuy.
• 0:41
  I'm
• 0:41
  Roger
• 0:42
  Walsh
• 0:42
  and
• 0:42
  our
• 0:42
  co
• 0:43
  host
• 0:43
  is
• 0:43
  John
• 0:43
  Dupuy.
• 0:44
  And
• 0:45
  with
• 0:45
  us
• 0:45
  today
• 0:45
  are
• 0:45
  two
• 0:46
  esteemed
• 0:46
  Zen
• 0:47
  teachers
• 0:47
  and
• 0:48
  authors.
• 0:49
  Diane
• 0:49
  Hamilton
• 0:50
  is
• 0:50
  an
• 0:50
  award
• 0:51
  winning
• 0:51
  pioneer
• 0:52
  in
• 0:52
  the
• 0:52
  field
• 0:53
  of
• 0:53
  mediation
• 0:53
  and
• 0:54
  conflict
• 0:54
  resolution
• 0:55
  and
• 0:56
  she's
• 0:56
  the
• 0:56
  author
• 0:56
  of
• 0:57
  several
• 0:57
  books
• 0:58
  including
• 0:59
  Everything
• 0:59
  is
• 0:59
  Workable,
• 1:00
  A
• 1:01
  Zen
• 1:01
  Approach
• 1:01
  to
• 1:02
  Conflict
• 1:02
  Resolution
• 1:03
  and
• 1:03
  the
• 1:04
  Zen
• 1:04
  of
• 1:04
  you
• 1:05
  and
• 1:05
  Me,
• 1:05
  A
• 1:06
  Guide
• 1:06
  to
• 1:06
  Getting
• 1:07
  along
• 1:07
  with
• 1:07
  Just
• 1:08
  About
• 1:08
  Everyone.
• 1:09
  I
• 1:09
  need
• 1:10
  to
• 1:10
  read
• 1:10
  that
• 1:10
  book.
• 1:13
  And
• 1:13
  Gabriel
• 1:14
  or
• 1:14
  Gabe
• 1:15
  Wilson
• 1:16
  has
• 1:16
  a
• 1:16
  Master's
• 1:17
  from
• 1:17
  Stanford
• 1:18
  in
• 1:18
  Organizational
• 1:19
  Leadership.
• 1:20
  He's
• 1:21
  a
• 1:21
  Zen
• 1:21
  monk
• 1:22
  and
• 1:22
  is
• 1:23
  co
• 1:23
  author
• 1:23
  with
• 1:23
  Diane
• 1:24
  of
• 1:24
  two
• 1:24
  books,
• 1:25
  One
• 1:25
  Compassionate
• 1:26
  Conversations
• 1:27
  and
• 1:28
  the
• 1:28
  other
• 1:29
  book
• 1:30
  we'll
• 1:30
  be
• 1:30
  primarily
• 1:31
  focusing
• 1:32
  on
• 1:32
  today,
• 1:33
  Waking
• 1:33
  up
• 1:33
  and
• 1:33
  Growing
• 1:34
  Up.
• 1:35
  So
• 1:36
  Diane,
• 1:36
  Gabe,
• 1:37
  you
• 1:37
  have
• 1:38
  both
• 1:38
  devoted
• 1:40
  much
• 1:41
  most
• 1:41
  of
• 1:41
  your
• 1:41
  life
• 1:42
  to
• 1:43
  Zen
• 1:44
  practice,
• 1:44
  to
• 1:45
  this
• 1:45
  remarkable
• 1:47
  centuries
• 1:47
  old
• 1:48
  tradition
• 1:50
  which
• 1:50
  has
• 1:51
  really
• 1:52
  shaped
• 1:52
  both
• 1:53
  Chinese
• 1:53
  and
• 1:54
  Japanese
• 1:54
  culture
• 1:55
  and
• 1:55
  is
• 1:55
  now
• 1:56
  impacting
• 1:56
  the
• 1:57
  west
• 1:57
  in
• 1:58
  ways
• 1:58
  we
• 1:58
  are
• 1:59
  still
• 1:59
  beginning
• 1:59
  to
• 1:59
  understand.
• 2:00
  It's
• 2:01
  a
• 2:01
  profound
• 2:02
  tradition.
• 2:03
  Everyone's
• 2:03
  heard
• 2:04
  of
• 2:04
  Zen
• 2:04
  and
• 2:04
  has
• 2:05
  some
• 2:05
  appreciation
• 2:06
  for
• 2:06
  its
• 2:06
  uniqueness
• 2:07
  and
• 2:07
  impact.
• 2:08
  So
• 2:10
  question
• 2:10
  for
• 2:10
  you
• 2:11
  then,
• 2:11
  what
• 2:11
  drew
• 2:12
  you
• 2:12
  both
• 2:12
  to
• 2:13
  it
• 2:13
  and
• 2:15
  what
• 2:15
  did
• 2:15
  you
• 2:15
  find
• 2:16
  lacking
• 2:16
  that
• 2:16
  you
• 2:16
  felt
• 2:17
  you
• 2:17
  needed
• 2:17
  to
• 2:17
  write
• 2:18
  this
• 2:18
  book?
• 2:19
  I
• 2:19
  would
• 2:19
  say
• 2:19
  what's
• 2:20
  true
• 2:20
  for
• 2:20
  most
• 2:20
  in
• 2:21
  my
• 2:21
  experience
• 2:21
  of
• 2:21
  what
• 2:22
  people
• 2:22
  that
• 2:22
  walk
• 2:22
  through
• 2:23
  our
• 2:23
  Zen
• 2:23
  center,
• 2:24
  what's
• 2:25
  bringing
• 2:25
  them
• 2:25
  here
• 2:25
  is
• 2:25
  some
• 2:26
  form
• 2:26
  of
• 2:26
  suffering,
• 2:27
  some
• 2:27
  existential
• 2:28
  confrontation.
• 2:29
  So
• 2:30
  I
• 2:30
  had
• 2:30
  that
• 2:31
  in
• 2:31
  my
• 2:31
  own
• 2:31
  way.
• 2:32
  We
• 2:32
  write
• 2:32
  about
• 2:32
  this
• 2:32
  in
• 2:32
  the
• 2:33
  book.
• 2:33
  But
• 2:33
  I
• 2:33
  developed
• 2:34
  a
• 2:34
  heart
• 2:34
  condition
• 2:35
  in
• 2:35
  college
• 2:35
  and
• 2:36
  it
• 2:36
  just
• 2:36
  brought
• 2:36
  me
• 2:36
  face
• 2:37
  to
• 2:37
  face
• 2:37
  with
• 2:37
  the
• 2:38
  question
• 2:38
  of
• 2:39
  what
• 2:39
  is
• 2:40
  death?
• 2:40
  What
• 2:40
  is
• 2:40
  life
• 2:41
  in
• 2:41
  the
• 2:41
  face
• 2:41
  of
• 2:42
  death?
• 2:42
  What's
• 2:43
  worth
• 2:43
  investing
• 2:44
  in
• 2:44
  if
• 2:45
  it's
• 2:45
  all
• 2:45
  going
• 2:45
  to
• 2:45
  go
• 2:46
  away?
• 2:46
  And
• 2:46
  so
• 2:47
  that
• 2:47
  was
• 2:48
  for
• 2:48
  whatever
• 2:48
  reason
• 2:49
  my
• 2:49
  mind
• 2:49
  turned
• 2:50
  in
• 2:50
  that
• 2:50
  direction
• 2:51
  and
• 2:51
  I
• 2:51
  was
• 2:51
  just
• 2:51
  groping
• 2:52
  in
• 2:52
  the
• 2:52
  dark
• 2:53
  with
• 2:53
  those
• 2:53
  questions
• 2:54
  by
• 2:54
  myself
• 2:54
  as
• 2:55
  a
• 2:55
  Stanford
• 2:55
  undergraduate
• 2:56
  with
• 2:56
  no
• 2:56
  reference
• 2:57
  points.
• 2:57
  So
• 2:58
  that
• 2:58
  was
• 2:58
  number
• 2:58
  one.
• 2:59
  Fortuitously,
• 3:00
  my
• 3:00
  mother
• 3:01
  is
• 3:01
  a
• 3:01
  therapist
• 3:02
  and
• 3:02
  happened
• 3:02
  to,
• 3:03
  for
• 3:03
  whatever
• 3:03
  reason,
• 3:04
  bump
• 3:04
  into
• 3:04
  Ken
• 3:04
  Wilber.
• 3:05
  And
• 3:06
  so
• 3:06
  as
• 3:06
  the
• 3:07
  doctors
• 3:07
  were
• 3:07
  figuring
• 3:08
  out
• 3:08
  what
• 3:09
  was
• 3:09
  wrong
• 3:09
  with
• 3:09
  my
• 3:09
  heart,
• 3:10
  she
• 3:10
  said,
• 3:10
  you
• 3:10
  know,
• 3:11
  let's
• 3:11
  just
• 3:11
  at
• 3:11
  a
• 3:11
  Very
• 3:12
  base
• 3:12
  level.
• 3:12
  Just
• 3:13
  work
• 3:13
  with
• 3:13
  your
• 3:14
  anxiety
• 3:14
  a
• 3:14
  little
• 3:14
  bit
• 3:15
  and
• 3:15
  try
• 3:15
  some
• 3:15
  meditation.
• 3:16
  Oh,
• 3:16
  and
• 3:17
  by
• 3:17
  the
• 3:17
  way,
• 3:17
  if
• 3:18
  it
• 3:18
  tickles
• 3:18
  your
• 3:19
  fancy,
• 3:19
  Ken
• 3:19
  Wilbur
• 3:20
  might
• 3:20
  have
• 3:20
  some
• 3:20
  things
• 3:21
  that
• 3:21
  may
• 3:21
  be
• 3:21
  helpful.
• 3:22
  And.
• 3:23
  And
• 3:23
  so,
• 3:24
  in
• 3:24
  a
• 3:24
  way,
• 3:24
  the.
• 3:24
  The
• 3:25
  basic
• 3:25
  ingredients
• 3:25
  were
• 3:26
  set
• 3:26
  right
• 3:26
  then
• 3:27
  and
• 3:27
  there.
• 3:27
  And
• 3:28
  if
• 3:28
  I
• 3:28
  were
• 3:29
  to
• 3:29
  fast
• 3:29
  forward
• 3:29
  the
• 3:30
  journey,
• 3:30
  I
• 3:31
  found
• 3:31
  meditation
• 3:31
  to.
• 3:32
  To
• 3:32
  scratch
• 3:33
  an
• 3:33
  itch.
• 3:33
  I
• 3:34
  had
• 3:34
  a
• 3:34
  spontaneous
• 3:35
  experience
• 3:36
  of
• 3:36
  feeling
• 3:36
  a
• 3:36
  lot,
• 3:37
  a
• 3:37
  pervasive
• 3:38
  sense
• 3:38
  of
• 3:38
  equanimity
• 3:39
  in
• 3:39
  the
• 3:39
  midst
• 3:40
  of
• 3:40
  one
• 3:40
  of
• 3:40
  these
• 3:40
  heart
• 3:41
  episodes.
• 3:42
  And
• 3:42
  it
• 3:43
  just
• 3:44
  created
• 3:44
  a
• 3:45
  grasping
• 3:45
  in
• 3:46
  me
• 3:46
  of
• 3:47
  looking
• 3:47
  for
• 3:47
  that
• 3:48
  again.
• 3:48
  That
• 3:49
  was
• 3:49
  number
• 3:49
  one.
• 3:49
  And
• 3:49
  then
• 3:49
  number
• 3:50
  two,
• 3:50
  I
• 3:51
  started
• 3:51
  to
• 3:51
  bump
• 3:51
  into
• 3:51
  a
• 3:52
  lot
• 3:52
  of
• 3:52
  people
• 3:52
  my
• 3:52
  age.
• 3:53
  This
• 3:53
  is
• 3:53
  now
• 3:54
  I'm
• 3:54
  21,
• 3:55
  graduated
• 3:55
  college
• 3:56
  and
• 3:57
  bumped
• 3:57
  into
• 3:57
  a
• 3:58
  lot
• 3:58
  of
• 3:58
  people
• 3:58
  that
• 3:59
  had
• 3:59
  been
• 3:59
  at
• 3:59
  Tassajara
• 4:00
  or
• 4:00
  whatever
• 4:01
  monastery
• 4:02
  that
• 4:02
  they
• 4:02
  were
• 4:02
  practicing
• 4:03
  at
• 4:03
  for
• 4:03
  maybe
• 4:03
  a
• 4:03
  couple
• 4:03
  of
• 4:04
  years
• 4:04
  already
• 4:04
  and
• 4:05
  had
• 4:06
  an
• 4:06
  exquisite
• 4:07
  presence
• 4:07
  and
• 4:08
  groundedness
• 4:10
  that
• 4:10
  I
• 4:10
  was
• 4:11
  seeking
• 4:11
  myself.
• 4:12
  And
• 4:13
  as
• 4:13
  it
• 4:13
  would
• 4:13
  be
• 4:13
  the
• 4:14
  case,
• 4:14
  I
• 4:14
  would
• 4:14
  also
• 4:14
  bump
• 4:15
  into
• 4:15
  them
• 4:15
  outside
• 4:15
  of
• 4:16
  the
• 4:16
  monastic
• 4:16
  context,
• 4:17
  and
• 4:18
  they
• 4:18
  just
• 4:18
  seemed
• 4:18
  to
• 4:18
  be
• 4:18
  a
• 4:19
  mess.
• 4:19
  So
• 4:20
  the
• 4:20
  juxtaposition
• 4:21
  of
• 4:21
  the
• 4:22
  clarity
• 4:22
  and
• 4:22
  the
• 4:23
  equanimity
• 4:23
  and
• 4:23
  the
• 4:24
  groundedness
• 4:24
  that
• 4:24
  I
• 4:24
  felt
• 4:25
  when
• 4:25
  they
• 4:25
  were
• 4:25
  in
• 4:26
  the
• 4:26
  monastic
• 4:26
  setting
• 4:27
  didn't
• 4:27
  transfer
• 4:28
  over
• 4:28
  to
• 4:29
  their
• 4:29
  life.
• 4:30
  And
• 4:30
  I
• 4:30
  just
• 4:30
  was
• 4:31
  perplexed
• 4:31
  by
• 4:31
  the
• 4:32
  gap.
• 4:32
  Fortunately,
• 4:33
  having
• 4:34
  read
• 4:34
  Ken,
• 4:35
  I
• 4:35
  had
• 4:35
  a
• 4:35
  sense
• 4:36
  of
• 4:36
  what
• 4:36
  quote,
• 4:37
  unquote,
• 4:37
  the
• 4:37
  issue
• 4:38
  might
• 4:38
  be
• 4:38
  insofar
• 4:39
  as
• 4:39
  them
• 4:39
  only
• 4:39
  tending
• 4:40
  to
• 4:40
  one
• 4:40
  line
• 4:41
  of
• 4:41
  development.
• 4:42
  But
• 4:42
  in
• 4:42
  short,
• 4:43
  I
• 4:43
  basically
• 4:44
  saw
• 4:44
  that,
• 4:44
  and
• 4:44
  I
• 4:44
  was
• 4:44
  like,
• 4:45
  I
• 4:45
  need
• 4:45
  to
• 4:45
  have
• 4:45
  a
• 4:46
  spirituality
• 4:46
  that
• 4:46
  cultivates
• 4:47
  an
• 4:47
  ability
• 4:48
  to
• 4:48
  express
• 4:48
  it
• 4:48
  in
• 4:48
  the
• 4:49
  world.
• 4:49
  And
• 4:49
  if
• 4:49
  it's
• 4:49
  not
• 4:50
  going
• 4:50
  to
• 4:50
  help
• 4:50
  me
• 4:50
  do
• 4:50
  that,
• 4:51
  then
• 4:51
  I'm
• 4:51
  going
• 4:52
  to
• 4:52
  turn
• 4:52
  around
• 4:52
  and
• 4:52
  look
• 4:53
  for
• 4:53
  it.
• 4:53
  And
• 4:53
  so
• 4:53
  I
• 4:53
  found
• 4:54
  Diane
• 4:54
  Michelle
• 4:55
  Hamilton,
• 4:55
  and
• 4:55
  I
• 4:56
  literally
• 4:56
  just
• 4:56
  typed
• 4:56
  in
• 4:57
  integral
• 4:58
  Zen
• 4:58
  teacher.
• 4:59
  And
• 4:59
  I
• 4:59
  think
• 4:59
  Di
• 5:00
  was
• 5:00
  like,
• 5:00
  number
• 5:00
  two.
• 5:02
  What
• 5:02
  do
• 5:02
  you
• 5:02
  mean?
• 5:02
  What
• 5:03
  do
• 5:03
  you
• 5:03
  mean,
• 5:03
  number
• 5:03
  two?
• 5:07
  That
• 5:07
  ain't
• 5:07
  right.
• 5:07
  Roger.
• 5:08
  Roger
• 5:08
  Must
• 5:09
  be.
• 5:09
  It
• 5:09
  was.
• 5:09
  It
• 5:09
  was
• 5:09
  the
• 5:10
  SEO.
• 5:10
  You
• 5:10
  know,
• 5:11
  back
• 5:11
  in
• 5:11
  the
• 5:11
  day,
• 5:11
  we
• 5:12
  just
• 5:12
  didn't
• 5:12
  have
• 5:12
  that
• 5:12
  algorithm
• 5:13
  figured
• 5:13
  out.
• 5:14
  So
• 5:14
  it
• 5:15
  was
• 5:15
  a
• 5:15
  very
• 5:16
  direct
• 5:16
  route
• 5:17
  to
• 5:17
  what
• 5:17
  I
• 5:18
  needed,
• 5:18
  and
• 5:18
  it
• 5:18
  came
• 5:19
  very
• 5:19
  quickly.
• 5:19
  And
• 5:20
  I
• 5:20
  think
• 5:20
  because
• 5:20
  I
• 5:21
  had
• 5:21
  those
• 5:21
  basic
• 5:21
  reference
• 5:22
  points,
• 5:22
  I
• 5:22
  found
• 5:23
  DAI
• 5:23
  in
• 5:23
  a
• 5:23
  very
• 5:24
  efficient
• 5:24
  and
• 5:24
  effective
• 5:25
  way.
• 5:25
  So.
• 5:26
  Yeah.
• 5:26
  And
• 5:26
  what
• 5:27
  about
• 5:27
  you,
• 5:27
  Diane?
• 5:27
  Because
• 5:28
  you've
• 5:28
  been
• 5:28
  teaching
• 5:29
  for
• 5:29
  a
• 5:30
  long
• 5:30
  time,
• 5:31
  and
• 5:31
  Dave
• 5:32
  came
• 5:32
  to
• 5:32
  you
• 5:32
  as
• 5:33
  a
• 5:33
  student,
• 5:33
  but
• 5:34
  you've
• 5:34
  been
• 5:34
  at
• 5:35
  this
• 5:35
  for
• 5:35
  a
• 5:35
  long
• 5:35
  time,
• 5:36
  and
• 5:36
  I
• 5:36
  think
• 5:37
  you've
• 5:37
  seen
• 5:37
  some
• 5:38
  limitations
• 5:39
  in
• 5:41
  both
• 5:41
  teachers
• 5:42
  and
• 5:42
  students.
• 5:43
  So,
• 5:44
  same
• 5:44
  question.
• 5:44
  What
• 5:45
  drew
• 5:45
  you
• 5:45
  to
• 5:45
  Zen?
• 5:46
  And
• 5:47
  in
• 5:47
  spite
• 5:47
  of
• 5:48
  all
• 5:48
  the
• 5:48
  benefits,.
• 5:49
  What
• 5:49
  do
• 5:50
  you
• 5:50
  find
• 5:50
  missing
• 5:51
  what
• 5:51
  drew
• 5:52
  me
• 5:52
  to
• 5:52
  Zen
• 5:52
  is
• 5:53
  somewhat
• 5:53
  similar
• 5:53
  to
• 5:54
  what
• 5:54
  Gabe
• 5:54
  describes
• 5:55
  in
• 5:55
  that
• 5:55
  I
• 5:56
  also
• 5:56
  had
• 5:56
  my
• 5:57
  own
• 5:57
  existential
• 5:58
  challenges
• 5:59
  as
• 5:59
  a
• 5:59
  young
• 5:59
  person.
• 6:00
  I
• 6:00
  lost
• 6:01
  seven
• 6:01
  very
• 6:01
  close
• 6:02
  friends
• 6:02
  in
• 6:02
  about
• 6:03
  a
• 6:03
  period
• 6:03
  of
• 6:03
  about
• 6:03
  six
• 6:04
  months
• 6:04
  when
• 6:05
  I
• 6:05
  was
• 6:05
  17.
• 6:06
  So
• 6:06
  when
• 6:06
  I
• 6:06
  went
• 6:06
  to
• 6:06
  college,
• 6:07
  I
• 6:07
  was.
• 6:08
  My
• 6:08
  questions
• 6:09
  were.
• 6:09
  Were
• 6:09
  bigger
• 6:10
  than
• 6:10
  what
• 6:10
  do
• 6:10
  I
• 6:11
  want
• 6:11
  to
• 6:11
  do
• 6:12
  professionally
• 6:12
  and
• 6:13
  what
• 6:13
  do
• 6:13
  I
• 6:13
  want
• 6:13
  to
• 6:13
  study?
• 6:13
  I
• 6:14
  wanted
• 6:14
  to
• 6:14
  know
• 6:14
  what
• 6:14
  does
• 6:15
  this
• 6:15
  mean,
• 6:15
  as
• 6:15
  you
• 6:16
  said,
• 6:16
  what
• 6:16
  is
• 6:16
  the
• 6:17
  way
• 6:17
  to
• 6:17
  live
• 6:17
  given
• 6:18
  the
• 6:18
  fact
• 6:18
  that
• 6:18
  this
• 6:18
  is
• 6:19
  time
• 6:19
  limited
• 6:19
  and
• 6:20
  that
• 6:20
  we
• 6:20
  experience
• 6:21
  loss
• 6:21
  and
• 6:21
  that
• 6:21
  the
• 6:22
  world
• 6:22
  is
• 6:22
  a
• 6:22
  big
• 6:22
  challenging
• 6:23
  place,
• 6:23
  as
• 6:23
  we
• 6:24
  all
• 6:24
  know.
• 6:25
  And
• 6:25
  I
• 6:25
  studied
• 6:26
  philosophy,
• 6:26
  I
• 6:26
  studied
• 6:27
  literature,
• 6:28
  and
• 6:29
  then
• 6:29
  I
• 6:30
  just
• 6:30
  intuitively
• 6:31
  was
• 6:31
  drawn
• 6:32
  to
• 6:32
  meditation.
• 6:33
  When
• 6:33
  I
• 6:33
  spent
• 6:33
  my
• 6:34
  first.
• 6:35
  The
• 6:35
  first
• 6:35
  meditation
• 6:36
  session
• 6:36
  that
• 6:37
  I
• 6:37
  did
• 6:37
  was
• 6:37
  a
• 6:37
  three
• 6:37
  hour
• 6:38
  session.
• 6:38
  And
• 6:39
  I
• 6:39
  could
• 6:39
  feel
• 6:39
  that
• 6:40
  division
• 6:41
  and
• 6:41
  that
• 6:42
  separation
• 6:43
  of
• 6:43
  myself
• 6:43
  close.
• 6:44
  My
• 6:44
  mind,
• 6:45
  my
• 6:45
  body,
• 6:46
  my
• 6:46
  heart
• 6:47
  became
• 6:47
  one
• 6:47
  with
• 6:48
  my
• 6:48
  life.
• 6:49
  And
• 6:50
  not
• 6:50
  only
• 6:50
  the
• 6:50
  relief,
• 6:51
  but
• 6:51
  also
• 6:51
  that
• 6:52
  subtle
• 6:52
  quality
• 6:53
  of
• 6:53
  liberation
• 6:54
  was
• 6:54
  very
• 6:54
  apparent
• 6:55
  to
• 6:55
  me
• 6:55
  from
• 6:55
  the
• 6:55
  very
• 6:55
  first
• 6:56
  time
• 6:56
  that
• 6:56
  I
• 6:56
  meditated.
• 6:57
  So
• 6:57
  I
• 6:57
  was
• 6:57
  kind
• 6:58
  of
• 6:58
  hooked
• 6:58
  from
• 6:58
  day
• 6:59
  one.
• 6:59
  And
• 6:59
  I
• 6:59
  studied
• 7:00
  you,
• 7:00
  Roger.
• 7:00
  I
• 7:01
  studied
• 7:01
  originally
• 7:02
  in
• 7:02
  one
• 7:03
  tradition
• 7:03
  and
• 7:03
  then
• 7:03
  I
• 7:04
  transferred
• 7:04
  to
• 7:04
  another
• 7:05
  one.
• 7:05
  So
• 7:05
  I
• 7:05
  started
• 7:06
  in
• 7:06
  the
• 7:06
  Tibetan
• 7:06
  Buddhist
• 7:07
  tradition
• 7:07
  and
• 7:07
  then
• 7:07
  came
• 7:07
  to
• 7:08
  Zen.
• 7:08
  In
• 7:09
  terms
• 7:09
  of
• 7:09
  what
• 7:09
  is
• 7:10
  missing,
• 7:12
  the
• 7:12
  way
• 7:12
  that
• 7:12
  I
• 7:12
  would
• 7:12
  answer
• 7:13
  that
• 7:13
  is
• 7:13
  that
• 7:14
  there's
• 7:14
  always
• 7:14
  a
• 7:15
  little
• 7:15
  something
• 7:15
  missing,
• 7:16
  which
• 7:16
  is
• 7:16
  what
• 7:17
  helps
• 7:17
  us
• 7:17
  keep
• 7:17
  the
• 7:18
  wheels
• 7:18
  turning
• 7:18
  on
• 7:19
  our.
• 7:19
  On
• 7:20
  our
• 7:20
  spiritual
• 7:20
  work.
• 7:21
  There's
• 7:21
  always
• 7:21
  a
• 7:22
  little
• 7:22
  bit
• 7:22
  more
• 7:22
  to
• 7:23
  another
• 7:23
  question
• 7:24
  arises
• 7:24
  or
• 7:25
  another
• 7:25
  concern.
• 7:26
  But
• 7:27
  what
• 7:27
  gave
• 7:28
  rise
• 7:28
  to
• 7:28
  this
• 7:29
  book
• 7:29
  was
• 7:29
  a
• 7:29
  conversation
• 7:30
  that
• 7:31
  Gabe
• 7:31
  and
• 7:31
  I
• 7:31
  had
• 7:31
  with
• 7:32
  our
• 7:32
  publisher
• 7:34
  from
• 7:34
  Shambhala,
• 7:35
  and
• 7:35
  his
• 7:36
  concern
• 7:36
  that
• 7:37
  young
• 7:37
  people
• 7:37
  just
• 7:37
  didn't
• 7:38
  seem
• 7:38
  to
• 7:38
  be
• 7:38
  coming
• 7:39
  to
• 7:39
  Buddhist
• 7:39
  practice
• 7:40
  in
• 7:40
  the
• 7:40
  way
• 7:40
  they
• 7:41
  had
• 7:41
  in
• 7:41
  earlier,
• 7:41
  you
• 7:42
  know,
• 7:42
  particularly
• 7:43
  one
• 7:43
  generation
• 7:44
  or
• 7:44
  two
• 7:44
  before.
• 7:46
  And
• 7:46
  Gabe
• 7:47
  made
• 7:47
  the
• 7:47
  comment
• 7:47
  that
• 7:48
  he
• 7:48
  thought
• 7:48
  it
• 7:48
  was
• 7:48
  really
• 7:49
  important,
• 7:49
  but
• 7:49
  that
• 7:49
  maybe
• 7:50
  we
• 7:50
  needed
• 7:51
  to
• 7:51
  start
• 7:51
  to
• 7:52
  frame
• 7:52
  things
• 7:53
  in
• 7:53
  terms
• 7:53
  that
• 7:54
  young
• 7:54
  Americans
• 7:55
  and
• 7:55
  Westerners
• 7:56
  could
• 7:56
  really
• 7:56
  relate
• 7:57
  to.
• 7:57
  So
• 7:57
  for
• 7:58
  those
• 7:58
  of
• 7:58
  us
• 7:58
  who
• 7:58
  were
• 7:59
  boomers,
• 7:59
  there
• 7:59
  was
• 7:59
  like
• 7:59
  this
• 8:00
  natural
• 8:00
  attraction
• 8:01
  to
• 8:01
  the
• 8:01
  Buddha
• 8:02
  dharma.
• 8:02
  But
• 8:02
  now
• 8:02
  that's
• 8:03
  all
• 8:03
  been
• 8:03
  mapped
• 8:03
  and
• 8:04
  there's
• 8:04
  plenty
• 8:05
  of
• 8:05
  Western
• 8:05
  teachers,
• 8:06
  and
• 8:06
  so
• 8:06
  it
• 8:07
  isn't
• 8:07
  quite
• 8:07
  as
• 8:07
  exciting.
• 8:08
  You
• 8:08
  know,
• 8:09
  somebody's
• 8:09
  been
• 8:09
  there.
• 8:10
  Our
• 8:10
  generation
• 8:11
  was
• 8:11
  the
• 8:11
  first
• 8:11
  to
• 8:11
  kind
• 8:12
  of
• 8:12
  go
• 8:12
  into
• 8:12
  all
• 8:13
  of
• 8:13
  this.
• 8:14
  So.
• 8:15
  And
• 8:15
  that's
• 8:15
  where
• 8:15
  Ken
• 8:16
  Wilber
• 8:16
  comes
• 8:16
  in
• 8:16
  for
• 8:17
  me
• 8:17
  too.
• 8:17
  So
• 8:17
  Ken
• 8:18
  is
• 8:18
  a
• 8:18
  big
• 8:18
  influence
• 8:18
  of
• 8:19
  ours.
• 8:19
  I
• 8:19
  met
• 8:19
  Ken
• 8:20
  midway
• 8:20
  through
• 8:20
  my
• 8:21
  Zen
• 8:21
  training,
• 8:21
  and
• 8:23
  his
• 8:23
  willingness
• 8:24
  to
• 8:24
  really
• 8:24
  ask
• 8:25
  questions
• 8:25
  of
• 8:26
  the
• 8:26
  traditions,
• 8:27
  to
• 8:27
  assume
• 8:28
  that
• 8:28
  they
• 8:28
  evolve,
• 8:29
  like
• 8:29
  all
• 8:29
  things
• 8:30
  evolve,
• 8:31
  and
• 8:31
  that
• 8:31
  to
• 8:31
  participate
• 8:32
  in
• 8:32
  that
• 8:32
  evolution
• 8:33
  with
• 8:33
  a
• 8:33
  tremendous
• 8:34
  amount
• 8:34
  of
• 8:34
  respect
• 8:35
  for
• 8:35
  that
• 8:35
  which
• 8:36
  has
• 8:36
  been
• 8:36
  Preserved
• 8:37
  because
• 8:37
  every
• 8:38
  tradition
• 8:39
  is
• 8:39
  example
• 8:40
  of
• 8:41
  the
• 8:41
  power
• 8:41
  of
• 8:42
  preservation.
• 8:43
  And
• 8:43
  yet
• 8:43
  what
• 8:43
  are
• 8:44
  the
• 8:44
  innovations
• 8:45
  that
• 8:45
  need
• 8:46
  to
• 8:46
  emerge
• 8:46
  so
• 8:46
  that
• 8:46
  people
• 8:47
  can
• 8:47
  participate
• 8:47
  in
• 8:48
  a
• 8:48
  way
• 8:48
  that's
• 8:48
  congruent
• 8:49
  with
• 8:49
  our
• 8:49
  time
• 8:49
  and
• 8:49
  place.
• 8:50
  So
• 8:50
  we
• 8:50
  wanted
• 8:50
  to
• 8:51
  talk
• 8:51
  about
• 8:52
  the
• 8:52
  practice
• 8:52
  so
• 8:53
  that
• 8:53
  people
• 8:53
  didn't
• 8:53
  just
• 8:54
  hear
• 8:54
  in
• 8:54
  a
• 8:55
  kind
• 8:55
  of
• 8:55
  religion,
• 8:56
  spiritual
• 8:57
  authority,
• 8:58
  that
• 8:58
  hierarchical
• 8:59
  kind
• 8:59
  of
• 8:59
  way,
• 9:00
  not
• 9:00
  for
• 9:00
  me,
• 9:00
  but
• 9:01
  rather
• 9:01
  there's
• 9:01
  so
• 9:01
  much
• 9:02
  that
• 9:02
  the
• 9:02
  traditions
• 9:03
  offer.
• 9:03
  And
• 9:04
  what
• 9:04
  is
• 9:04
  it
• 9:04
  that
• 9:05
  we
• 9:05
  particularly
• 9:06
  need
• 9:06
  in
• 9:06
  a
• 9:06
  Western
• 9:07
  Buddhism
• 9:08
  that
• 9:08
  maybe
• 9:08
  we're
• 9:09
  not
• 9:09
  finding
• 9:09
  in
• 9:09
  our
• 9:09
  Sanghas?
• 9:10
  And
• 9:10
  that's
• 9:10
  where
• 9:10
  we
• 9:11
  used
• 9:11
  Ken's
• 9:12
  framing
• 9:13
  of
• 9:13
  waking
• 9:13
  up,
• 9:14
  the
• 9:14
  awakening
• 9:14
  process
• 9:15
  of
• 9:15
  becoming.
• 9:16
  Seeing
• 9:16
  our
• 9:17
  identity
• 9:18
  as
• 9:19
  beyond
• 9:20
  the
• 9:20
  local
• 9:20
  self
• 9:21
  of
• 9:21
  Diane
• 9:21
  or
• 9:22
  Audrey,
• 9:23
  John,
• 9:23
  Gabe,
• 9:23
  but
• 9:24
  something
• 9:24
  greater.
• 9:25
  And
• 9:25
  then
• 9:25
  the
• 9:26
  growing
• 9:26
  up
• 9:26
  process,
• 9:27
  which
• 9:27
  is
• 9:27
  just
• 9:27
  straight
• 9:28
  up
• 9:29
  maturation,
• 9:30
  straight
• 9:30
  up
• 9:30
  ego
• 9:31
  development.
• 9:31
  Like
• 9:32
  we
• 9:32
  can
• 9:33
  burst
• 9:33
  through
• 9:33
  the
• 9:34
  ego,
• 9:34
  but
• 9:34
  we
• 9:34
  can
• 9:35
  also
• 9:35
  outgrow
• 9:35
  the
• 9:36
  ego
• 9:36
  and
• 9:37
  in
• 9:37
  doing
• 9:37
  so
• 9:38
  become
• 9:38
  better
• 9:39
  listeners,
• 9:40
  become
• 9:40
  better
• 9:41
  at
• 9:41
  relationship,
• 9:42
  receive
• 9:43
  challenges
• 9:43
  from
• 9:43
  one
• 9:43
  another,
• 9:44
  support
• 9:44
  one
• 9:45
  another's
• 9:45
  growth
• 9:46
  in
• 9:46
  a
• 9:46
  time
• 9:47
  bound
• 9:47
  way.
• 9:48
  The
• 9:48
  practice
• 9:49
  needs
• 9:49
  to
• 9:49
  support
• 9:50
  a
• 9:50
  different
• 9:50
  unfolding
• 9:51
  of
• 9:52
  who
• 9:52
  we
• 9:52
  are.
• 9:52
  So
• 9:53
  it's
• 9:53
  this
• 9:54
  coupling
• 9:54
  of
• 9:54
  waking
• 9:55
  up
• 9:55
  and
• 9:55
  growing
• 9:55
  up
• 9:56
  that
• 9:56
  can
• 9:56
  really
• 9:56
  help
• 9:57
  refrain
• 9:57
  for
• 9:57
  us.
• 9:59
  And
• 9:59
  the
• 9:59
  book
• 9:59
  is
• 10:00
  titled
• 10:00
  Waking
• 10:01
  up
• 10:01
  and
• 10:01
  Growing
• 10:01
  Up.
• 10:01
  So
• 10:02
  let's
• 10:03
  start
• 10:03
  with
• 10:03
  the
• 10:03
  basic.
• 10:04
  Because
• 10:04
  the
• 10:05
  term
• 10:05
  waking
• 10:05
  up
• 10:05
  is
• 10:06
  thrown
• 10:06
  around
• 10:06
  a
• 10:07
  lot
• 10:07
  these
• 10:07
  days.
• 10:07
  But
• 10:08
  what's
• 10:08
  it
• 10:08
  really
• 10:09
  mean?
• 10:10
  As
• 10:10
  much
• 10:10
  as
• 10:10
  you
• 10:11
  can.
• 10:12
  I
• 10:12
  realize
• 10:12
  I'm
• 10:12
  asking
• 10:13
  you
• 10:13
  to
• 10:13
  point
• 10:13
  to
• 10:13
  the
• 10:13
  moon,
• 10:14
  but
• 10:15
  to
• 10:15
  use
• 10:15
  the
• 10:15
  Zen
• 10:15
  metaphor,
• 10:16
  but
• 10:16
  what
• 10:17
  are
• 10:17
  we
• 10:17
  pointing
• 10:18
  to
• 10:18
  when
• 10:18
  we
• 10:19
  really
• 10:19
  authentically
• 10:20
  talk
• 10:20
  about
• 10:20
  waking
• 10:21
  up?
• 10:22
  Well,
• 10:22
  for
• 10:22
  me
• 10:24
  the
• 10:25
  experience
• 10:25
  of
• 10:26
  awakening
• 10:26
  is
• 10:27
  the
• 10:28
  experience
• 10:28
  that
• 10:30
  who
• 10:30
  we
• 10:30
  are
• 10:32
  in
• 10:33
  our
• 10:33
  fullest
• 10:33
  expression
• 10:35
  is
• 10:35
  free
• 10:36
  of
• 10:36
  the
• 10:37
  concept
• 10:38
  of
• 10:38
  an
• 10:39
  of
• 10:39
  self.
• 10:40
  And
• 10:41
  we're
• 10:42
  awake
• 10:43
  to
• 10:43
  what's
• 10:43
  happening.
• 10:45
  We
• 10:45
  experience
• 10:46
  ourselves
• 10:46
  as
• 10:47
  part
• 10:47
  of
• 10:47
  all
• 10:47
  things.
• 10:48
  We're
• 10:48
  informed
• 10:49
  by
• 10:49
  everything
• 10:50
  that's
• 10:50
  happening
• 10:50
  around
• 10:51
  us.
• 10:51
  We
• 10:52
  can
• 10:52
  see
• 10:52
  the
• 10:52
  life
• 10:53
  force,
• 10:53
  the
• 10:53
  generosity,
• 10:54
  the
• 10:54
  compassion,
• 10:55
  the
• 10:55
  natural
• 10:55
  virtues
• 10:56
  arise
• 10:56
  when
• 10:57
  we
• 10:57
  come
• 10:57
  from
• 10:57
  a
• 10:57
  place.
• 10:58
  And
• 10:58
  for
• 10:59
  me
• 10:59
  I
• 10:59
  think
• 10:59
  it's
• 11:00
  important
• 11:00
  to
• 11:00
  really
• 11:00
  encourage
• 11:01
  people
• 11:01
  that
• 11:02
  we
• 11:02
  all
• 11:02
  see
• 11:03
  it
• 11:03
  in
• 11:03
  each
• 11:03
  other.
• 11:04
  When
• 11:05
  I
• 11:05
  working
• 11:05
  with
• 11:06
  Gabe,
• 11:06
  there's
• 11:07
  so
• 11:07
  many
• 11:07
  times
• 11:07
  where
• 11:07
  he's
• 11:08
  just
• 11:08
  coming
• 11:08
  from
• 11:08
  this
• 11:09
  open,
• 11:09
  awake
• 11:10
  in
• 11:11
  vitality
• 11:13
  and
• 11:13
  his
• 11:13
  goodwill,
• 11:14
  what
• 11:15
  we
• 11:15
  would
• 11:15
  call
• 11:15
  Buddha
• 11:16
  nature
• 11:16
  is
• 11:16
  just
• 11:16
  so
• 11:16
  apparent.
• 11:17
  I
• 11:17
  mean,
• 11:17
  I
• 11:18
  don't
• 11:18
  even
• 11:18
  need
• 11:18
  to
• 11:18
  be
• 11:18
  convinced
• 11:19
  that
• 11:19
  it's
• 11:19
  the
• 11:19
  real
• 11:20
  thing.
• 11:21
  But
• 11:21
  we
• 11:22
  cannot
• 11:22
  see
• 11:22
  it
• 11:23
  in
• 11:23
  ourselves
• 11:23
  very
• 11:23
  well.
• 11:24
  And
• 11:24
  we
• 11:24
  get
• 11:24
  the
• 11:24
  two
• 11:25
  deeply
• 11:25
  confused.
• 11:26
  And
• 11:27
  I
• 11:27
  always
• 11:27
  like
• 11:27
  to
• 11:27
  tell
• 11:27
  people
• 11:28
  it's
• 11:28
  no
• 11:28
  different
• 11:29
  than
• 11:29
  a
• 11:29
  high
• 11:29
  performance
• 11:30
  athlete
• 11:31
  who
• 11:31
  in
• 11:31
  order
• 11:32
  to
• 11:32
  perform
• 11:32
  at
• 11:33
  that
• 11:33
  level,
• 11:34
  let's
• 11:34
  take
• 11:34
  the
• 11:34
  fast
• 11:35
  break
• 11:35
  and
• 11:35
  in
• 11:35
  the
• 11:35
  NBA
• 11:36
  playoffs,
• 11:36
  you
• 11:36
  got
• 11:36
  to
• 11:37
  be
• 11:37
  free
• 11:37
  of
• 11:37
  yourself.
• 11:37
  If
• 11:38
  you're
• 11:38
  slowed
• 11:39
  down
• 11:39
  thinking
• 11:39
  about
• 11:39
  yourself,
• 11:40
  there's
• 11:40
  no
• 11:40
  way
• 11:40
  you're
• 11:40
  getting
• 11:41
  that
• 11:41
  pass.
• 11:41
  It's
• 11:41
  only
• 11:42
  without
• 11:42
  a
• 11:42
  self
• 11:42
  that
• 11:43
  you
• 11:43
  get
• 11:43
  that
• 11:43
  pass.
• 11:44
  Then
• 11:44
  your
• 11:44
  ego
• 11:44
  has
• 11:44
  plenty
• 11:45
  of
• 11:45
  room
• 11:45
  to
• 11:45
  inflate
• 11:46
  when
• 11:46
  you
• 11:46
  talk
• 11:46
  to
• 11:46
  the
• 11:46
  press,
• 11:47
  Go
• 11:47
  ahead,
• 11:47
  fine,
• 11:48
  no
• 11:48
  problem.
• 11:48
  But
• 11:49
  everyone
• 11:49
  who's
• 11:50
  functioning
• 11:50
  at
• 11:50
  a
• 11:51
  level
• 11:51
  in
• 11:51
  which
• 11:51
  there's
• 11:52
  flow
• 11:53
  and
• 11:53
  there's
• 11:53
  connectedness
• 11:54
  and
• 11:54
  there's
• 11:55
  the
• 11:55
  word,
• 11:55
  there's
• 11:56
  like,
• 11:56
  poetry.
• 11:57
  And
• 11:58
  that's
• 11:58
  just
• 11:58
  the
• 11:58
  awakened
• 11:59
  state.
• 11:59
  Question
• 12:00
  is,
• 12:00
  how
• 12:00
  deep
• 12:00
  is
• 12:01
  it?
• 12:01
  And
• 12:01
  how
• 12:01
  much
• 12:02
  are
• 12:02
  we
• 12:02
  coming
• 12:02
  from
• 12:02
  there?
• 12:03
  And
• 12:03
  how
• 12:03
  often
• 12:03
  are
• 12:03
  we
• 12:04
  in
• 12:04
  the
• 12:04
  habit
• 12:05
  of
• 12:05
  grasping
• 12:05
  to
• 12:06
  some
• 12:06
  idea
• 12:06
  that
• 12:07
  we
• 12:07
  have
• 12:07
  to
• 12:07
  be
• 12:07
  more,
• 12:07
  better,
• 12:08
  different,
• 12:08
  because
• 12:09
  we
• 12:09
  spend
• 12:09
  a
• 12:09
  lot
• 12:09
  of
• 12:10
  time
• 12:10
  there?
• 12:11
  So
• 12:12
  I
• 12:12
  might
• 12:12
  be
• 12:12
  taking
• 12:12
  the
• 12:13
  mystique
• 12:13
  out
• 12:14
  of
• 12:14
  it
• 12:14
  a
• 12:14
  little
• 12:14
  bit,
• 12:14
  but
• 12:15
  I
• 12:15
  think
• 12:15
  it's
• 12:15
  important
• 12:15
  to
• 12:15
  realize
• 12:16
  that
• 12:16
  each
• 12:17
  one
• 12:17
  of
• 12:17
  us
• 12:17
  has
• 12:17
  a
• 12:18
  really
• 12:18
  apparent
• 12:19
  awakened
• 12:20
  nature
• 12:20
  to
• 12:20
  each
• 12:20
  other.
• 12:21
  Can
• 12:21
  I
• 12:22
  make
• 12:22
  a
• 12:22
  comment
• 12:22
  here?
• 12:23
  As
• 12:23
  you
• 12:23
  may
• 12:23
  or
• 12:23
  may
• 12:23
  not
• 12:24
  know,
• 12:24
  we've
• 12:24
  been
• 12:24
  having
• 12:24
  an
• 12:24
  extended
• 12:25
  conversation
• 12:25
  with
• 12:25
  ah,
• 12:26
  Al
• 12:26
  Must.
• 12:27
  And
• 12:27
  it's
• 12:28
  been.
• 12:28
  It's
• 12:28
  been
• 12:29
  a
• 12:29
  magnificent
• 12:29
  experience.
• 12:30
  And
• 12:31
  he
• 12:31
  said,
• 12:32
  this
• 12:32
  is
• 12:32
  kind
• 12:32
  of
• 12:32
  a
• 12:32
  koan
• 12:33
  for
• 12:33
  me.
• 12:33
  He
• 12:33
  says
• 12:33
  that,
• 12:33
  you
• 12:33
  know,
• 12:33
  I
• 12:34
  meditate
• 12:34
  a
• 12:34
  lot
• 12:35
  because
• 12:35
  you
• 12:35
  can't
• 12:36
  meditate
• 12:36
  or
• 12:36
  practice
• 12:37
  your
• 12:37
  way
• 12:37
  to
• 12:37
  enlightenment.
• 12:38
  You
• 12:38
  just
• 12:38
  can't
• 12:39
  be
• 12:39
  so
• 12:39
  disciplined,
• 12:40
  you
• 12:40
  know?
• 12:40
  And
• 12:40
  it
• 12:41
  says
• 12:41
  sometimes
• 12:41
  the
• 12:42
  focus
• 12:42
  on
• 12:42
  practice
• 12:43
  actually
• 12:43
  reinforces
• 12:44
  the
• 12:44
  separate
• 12:45
  self.
• 12:45
  I
• 12:46
  was
• 12:46
  like,
• 12:46
  oh,
• 12:46
  great.
• 12:47
  But
• 12:47
  then
• 12:48
  I
• 12:48
  was
• 12:48
  like,
• 12:48
  okay,
• 12:49
  I've
• 12:49
  had
• 12:49
  a
• 12:50
  few
• 12:50
  moments
• 12:50
  of
• 12:50
  experience
• 12:51
  of
• 12:51
  grace
• 12:52
  and
• 12:52
  that.
• 12:53
  And
• 12:53
  when
• 12:53
  it
• 12:54
  happens,
• 12:54
  there's
• 12:55
  always
• 12:55
  a
• 12:55
  feeling
• 12:55
  of
• 12:56
  gratitude
• 12:56
  and
• 12:56
  humility.
• 12:57
  Yeah,
• 12:57
  that's
• 12:58
  right.
• 12:58
  Not
• 12:59
  like,
• 12:59
  hey,
• 12:59
  I'm
• 12:59
  an
• 12:59
  enlightened
• 13:00
  man.
• 13:00
  I
• 13:01
  earn
• 13:01
  this
• 13:01
  big
• 13:02
  time.
• 13:02
  And
• 13:03
  so
• 13:04
  in
• 13:04
  my
• 13:04
  practice,
• 13:05
  or
• 13:05
  prayer,
• 13:05
  meditation,
• 13:06
  whatever,
• 13:06
  I
• 13:07
  stopped
• 13:07
  just
• 13:08
  getting
• 13:08
  frustrated
• 13:09
  because
• 13:09
  my
• 13:09
  mind
• 13:10
  talks
• 13:10
  and
• 13:10
  everything.
• 13:10
  And
• 13:10
  I
• 13:11
  said,
• 13:11
  okay,
• 13:11
  I
• 13:12
  can't
• 13:12
  do
• 13:12
  it.
• 13:12
  I'll
• 13:13
  do
• 13:13
  my
• 13:13
  best
• 13:13
  shot.
• 13:14
  But
• 13:14
  I'm
• 13:14
  just
• 13:14
  opening
• 13:14
  up
• 13:15
  to
• 13:15
  God
• 13:15
  or
• 13:15
  higher
• 13:16
  power
• 13:16
  or
• 13:17
  the
• 13:17
  Dharma,
• 13:18
  whatever
• 13:18
  it
• 13:18
  is,
• 13:19
  because
• 13:19
  I
• 13:19
  can't
• 13:20
  get
• 13:20
  there
• 13:20
  by
• 13:20
  myself.
• 13:22
  However,
• 13:22
  on
• 13:23
  the
• 13:23
  other
• 13:23
  side,
• 13:24
  where
• 13:24
  we
• 13:24
  say,
• 13:25
  wake
• 13:25
  up,
• 13:26
  grow
• 13:26
  up,
• 13:27
  right.
• 13:27
  I
• 13:27
  think
• 13:27
  we
• 13:27
  can
• 13:28
  take
• 13:28
  more
• 13:28
  responsibility.
• 13:29
  On
• 13:29
  the
• 13:30
  grow
• 13:30
  up
• 13:30
  side,
• 13:30
  it's
• 13:31
  wake
• 13:31
  up,
• 13:31
  grow
• 13:31
  up.
• 13:33
  That's
• 13:33
  how
• 13:33
  you
• 13:33
  say
• 13:34
  it.
• 13:34
  Grow
• 13:34
  up,
• 13:35
  grow
• 13:35
  up,
• 13:35
  dude.
• 13:36
  Yeah.
• 13:38
  So
• 13:39
  our
• 13:39
  tradition,
• 13:39
  the
• 13:39
  Soto
• 13:40
  Zen
• 13:40
  tradition,
• 13:41
  is
• 13:41
  quite
• 13:41
  powerful
• 13:42
  in
• 13:42
  that
• 13:42
  it
• 13:43
  kind
• 13:43
  of
• 13:43
  gets
• 13:43
  rid
• 13:44
  of
• 13:44
  that
• 13:44
  dilemma
• 13:44
  a
• 13:45
  little
• 13:45
  bit.
• 13:45
  John.
• 13:46
  Because
• 13:47
  one
• 13:47
  of
• 13:47
  the
• 13:47
  great
• 13:48
  writers,
• 13:49
  thinkers,
• 13:49
  philosophers,
• 13:51
  teachers,
• 13:51
  Dougan
• 13:52
  Zenji,
• 13:53
  says
• 13:54
  that
• 13:54
  practice
• 13:54
  is
• 13:55
  enlightened.
• 13:56
  That
• 13:56
  the
• 13:56
  very
• 13:57
  fact
• 13:57
  that
• 13:57
  we
• 13:57
  practice
• 13:58
  is
• 13:58
  our
• 13:58
  enlightened
• 13:59
  nature.
• 14:00
  So
• 14:00
  that
• 14:00
  to
• 14:01
  practice
• 14:01
  is
• 14:01
  to
• 14:02
  be
• 14:02
  enlightened.
• 14:02
  And
• 14:02
  so
• 14:02
  it
• 14:03
  gets
• 14:03
  rid
• 14:03
  of
• 14:03
  that
• 14:03
  idea
• 14:04
  that
• 14:04
  practice
• 14:04
  is
• 14:04
  going
• 14:04
  to
• 14:05
  take
• 14:05
  us
• 14:05
  somewhere,
• 14:06
  and
• 14:06
  it
• 14:06
  actually
• 14:06
  allows
• 14:07
  us
• 14:07
  to
• 14:07
  be
• 14:07
  where
• 14:07
  we
• 14:07
  are,
• 14:08
  which
• 14:08
  is
• 14:08
  why
• 14:09
  we
• 14:09
  put
• 14:09
  the
• 14:09
  emphasis
• 14:10
  on
• 14:10
  just
• 14:10
  sitting.
• 14:11
  Just
• 14:11
  like
• 14:11
  what
• 14:12
  you
• 14:12
  said.
• 14:12
  I'm
• 14:13
  letting
• 14:13
  it
• 14:13
  all
• 14:13
  go
• 14:13
  and
• 14:14
  I'm
• 14:14
  just
• 14:14
  here
• 14:14
  and
• 14:15
  I'm
• 14:15
  available.
• 14:15
  We
• 14:16
  call
• 14:16
  it
• 14:16
  often
• 14:16
  receptive
• 14:17
  samadhi.
• 14:18
  No,
• 14:18
  I'm
• 14:19
  able
• 14:19
  to
• 14:19
  receive
• 14:19
  because
• 14:20
  I
• 14:20
  no
• 14:20
  longer
• 14:20
  have
• 14:21
  that
• 14:21
  agenda
• 14:21
  that
• 14:22
  there's
• 14:22
  something
• 14:22
  more,
• 14:22
  better,
• 14:23
  different
• 14:23
  I
• 14:23
  need
• 14:23
  to
• 14:24
  be.
• 14:24
  But
• 14:24
  it's
• 14:24
  very
• 14:25
  hard
• 14:25
  to
• 14:25
  do
• 14:25
  in
• 14:25
  this
• 14:25
  culture.
• 14:26
  Not
• 14:26
  trained.
• 14:27
  So
• 14:27
  training
• 14:28
  is
• 14:28
  important.
• 14:29
  Unpack
• 14:30
  that
• 14:30
  for
• 14:30
  us,
• 14:30
  Diane
• 14:31
  and
• 14:31
  Gabe,
• 14:31
  because
• 14:32
  that's
• 14:32
  one
• 14:32
  of
• 14:33
  the
• 14:33
  classic
• 14:34
  statements
• 14:35
  in
• 14:35
  Zen,
• 14:35
  that
• 14:36
  quotation
• 14:36
  from
• 14:37
  Dogen
• 14:37
  you
• 14:38
  just
• 14:38
  gave,
• 14:39
  that
• 14:39
  practice
• 14:40
  is
• 14:40
  awakening.
• 14:42
  And
• 14:43
  yet.
• 14:45
  Yeah,
• 14:45
  it
• 14:45
  still
• 14:46
  feels
• 14:46
  tricky.
• 14:46
  Say
• 14:47
  so
• 14:47
  say
• 14:47
  some
• 14:48
  more.
• 14:48
  Well,
• 14:48
  because
• 14:49
  we
• 14:49
  are
• 14:49
  so
• 14:50
  wired
• 14:52
  in
• 14:52
  our
• 14:52
  dualistic
• 14:53
  habit
• 14:53
  of
• 14:53
  mind,
• 14:55
  so
• 14:55
  that
• 14:55
  who
• 14:56
  I
• 14:56
  am
• 14:56
  now
• 14:56
  is
• 14:57
  not
• 14:57
  who
• 14:57
  I
• 14:57
  need
• 14:57
  to
• 14:58
  be.
• 14:59
  And
• 14:59
  yet
• 15:00
  the
• 15:00
  awakened
• 15:01
  mind
• 15:01
  is
• 15:01
  only
• 15:02
  found
• 15:03
  in
• 15:04
  the
• 15:04
  here
• 15:04
  and
• 15:04
  now.
• 15:05
  With
• 15:06
  things
• 15:06
  as
• 15:06
  they
• 15:07
  are
• 15:07
  now,
• 15:07
  that
• 15:07
  doesn't
• 15:08
  mean
• 15:08
  we
• 15:08
  can't
• 15:08
  respond
• 15:09
  to
• 15:09
  things
• 15:09
  as
• 15:09
  they
• 15:10
  are.
• 15:10
  That's
• 15:10
  an
• 15:10
  important
• 15:11
  distinction,
• 15:11
  and
• 15:11
  maybe
• 15:12
  that's
• 15:12
  a
• 15:12
  different
• 15:12
  conversation.
• 15:13
  But
• 15:13
  one
• 15:14
  never
• 15:14
  connects
• 15:15
  to
• 15:15
  the
• 15:15
  awakened
• 15:16
  dimension
• 15:18
  without
• 15:18
  being
• 15:19
  fully
• 15:19
  in
• 15:20
  the
• 15:20
  present.
• 15:21
  This
• 15:22
  is
• 15:22
  where
• 15:22
  it
• 15:22
  is
• 15:22
  now.
• 15:23
  The
• 15:23
  future
• 15:23
  can
• 15:23
  arise
• 15:23
  and
• 15:24
  the
• 15:24
  past
• 15:24
  can
• 15:24
  arise,
• 15:24
  that
• 15:25
  the
• 15:25
  sense
• 15:25
  that
• 15:25
  you're
• 15:26
  right
• 15:26
  here,
• 15:26
  right
• 15:26
  now
• 15:26
  does
• 15:27
  not
• 15:27
  dissolve.
• 15:27
  So
• 15:28
  basically,
• 15:29
  I
• 15:29
  think
• 15:29
  Dogen
• 15:30
  had
• 15:30
  a
• 15:30
  very
• 15:32
  profound
• 15:33
  capacity
• 15:33
  to
• 15:34
  collapse
• 15:34
  that
• 15:35
  dualism
• 15:35
  so
• 15:36
  that
• 15:36
  it's
• 15:36
  not
• 15:36
  me
• 15:37
  seeking
• 15:37
  something
• 15:37
  else,
• 15:38
  but
• 15:38
  rather
• 15:38
  it's
• 15:39
  right
• 15:39
  here.
• 15:40
  And
• 15:40
  then
• 15:40
  also
• 15:41
  said
• 15:41
  that
• 15:41
  the
• 15:41
  very
• 15:42
  fact
• 15:43
  that
• 15:43
  we're
• 15:43
  interested,
• 15:44
  that
• 15:44
  we
• 15:44
  have
• 15:44
  that
• 15:45
  impulse
• 15:45
  to
• 15:45
  sit
• 15:45
  still,
• 15:46
  like
• 15:46
  you'll
• 15:46
  find
• 15:46
  out
• 15:47
  about
• 15:47
  Gabe
• 15:47
  in
• 15:47
  the
• 15:47
  book,
• 15:48
  where
• 15:48
  he
• 15:48
  sits
• 15:49
  under
• 15:49
  a
• 15:49
  totem
• 15:49
  pole
• 15:50
  when
• 15:50
  his
• 15:50
  heart
• 15:50
  is
• 15:51
  just
• 15:51
  going
• 15:51
  crazy
• 15:52
  and
• 15:52
  he
• 15:52
  just
• 15:52
  says,
• 15:53
  I'm
• 15:53
  just
• 15:53
  going
• 15:53
  to
• 15:53
  stay
• 15:53
  right
• 15:54
  here.
• 15:55
  And
• 15:55
  that's
• 15:55
  when
• 15:55
  that
• 15:56
  quality
• 15:56
  of
• 15:56
  equanimity
• 15:58
  settled
• 15:58
  in.
• 15:58
  And
• 15:58
  suddenly
• 15:59
  he
• 15:59
  was
• 15:59
  okay.
• 16:01
  It
• 16:01
  was
• 16:01
  okay.
• 16:02
  And
• 16:02
  he
• 16:02
  had
• 16:03
  a
• 16:03
  spiritual
• 16:04
  opening,
• 16:04
  really,
• 16:04
  through
• 16:05
  surrendering
• 16:05
  to
• 16:06
  things
• 16:06
  as
• 16:06
  they
• 16:06
  are
• 16:08
  now.
• 16:08
  For
• 16:08
  me,
• 16:08
  what
• 16:09
  I
• 16:09
  know,
• 16:09
  Roger,
• 16:09
  that's
• 16:10
  interesting,
• 16:10
  is
• 16:11
  that
• 16:11
  this
• 16:11
  practice,
• 16:12
  that
• 16:12
  admonition
• 16:13
  that
• 16:13
  practices
• 16:14
  enlightenment
• 16:15
  is
• 16:15
  what
• 16:15
  has
• 16:15
  allowed
• 16:16
  me
• 16:16
  to
• 16:16
  practice
• 16:17
  for
• 16:17
  so
• 16:17
  long.
• 16:18
  Because
• 16:19
  I
• 16:19
  do
• 16:19
  believe
• 16:20
  that
• 16:20
  if
• 16:20
  I
• 16:20
  had
• 16:20
  been
• 16:21
  seeking
• 16:21
  a
• 16:21
  kind
• 16:22
  of
• 16:22
  enlightenment
• 16:23
  other
• 16:23
  than
• 16:23
  practice,
• 16:24
  that
• 16:25
  I
• 16:25
  would
• 16:25
  have
• 16:25
  gotten
• 16:26
  terribly
• 16:26
  discouraged
• 16:27
  when
• 16:27
  what
• 16:27
  I
• 16:28
  thought
• 16:28
  I
• 16:28
  was
• 16:29
  supposed
• 16:29
  to
• 16:29
  experience
• 16:29
  didn't
• 16:30
  happen.
• 16:30
  So
• 16:31
  in
• 16:31
  a
• 16:31
  way,
• 16:31
  that's
• 16:32
  allowed
• 16:32
  me
• 16:32
  to
• 16:32
  continue
• 16:34
  to
• 16:34
  practice,
• 16:35
  because
• 16:35
  I
• 16:35
  don't
• 16:36
  think,
• 16:36
  given
• 16:36
  who
• 16:36
  I
• 16:37
  am,
• 16:37
  I
• 16:37
  would've
• 16:37
  been
• 16:37
  too
• 16:38
  discouraged.
• 16:38
  To
• 16:38
  keep
• 16:38
  going.
• 16:39
  Can
• 16:40
  I
• 16:40
  say
• 16:40
  something?
• 16:41
  I've
• 16:41
  noticed
• 16:41
  in
• 16:41
  both
• 16:41
  your
• 16:42
  cases
• 16:42
  and
• 16:42
  with
• 16:42
  other
• 16:42
  folks,
• 16:43
  it
• 16:43
  seems
• 16:43
  that
• 16:44
  people
• 16:44
  that
• 16:44
  are
• 16:45
  called
• 16:46
  to
• 16:46
  be
• 16:46
  teachers
• 16:47
  often
• 16:48
  have
• 16:48
  these
• 16:48
  powerful
• 16:48
  initiatory
• 16:49
  experiences
• 16:50
  where
• 16:51
  the
• 16:51
  rest
• 16:51
  of
• 16:51
  us,
• 16:51
  you
• 16:51
  know,
• 16:52
  may
• 16:52
  not.
• 16:52
  But
• 16:53
  it
• 16:53
  seems
• 16:53
  in
• 16:53
  both
• 16:53
  your
• 16:54
  cases,
• 16:54
  you
• 16:54
  know,
• 16:54
  with
• 16:54
  your
• 16:55
  heart
• 16:55
  and
• 16:55
  when
• 16:56
  you
• 16:56
  did
• 16:56
  that
• 16:56
  three
• 16:56
  hour
• 16:57
  session,
• 16:57
  you
• 16:57
  know,
• 16:58
  immediately
• 16:58
  you
• 16:58
  felt,
• 16:58
  wow,
• 16:59
  this
• 16:59
  is
• 16:59
  something
• 16:59
  I
• 16:59
  can
• 17:00
  give
• 17:00
  myself
• 17:00
  to.
• 17:01
  And
• 17:01
  this
• 17:01
  is
• 17:01
  helping
• 17:02
  me
• 17:02
  out
• 17:02
  on
• 17:02
  my
• 17:02
  dilemma.
• 17:02
  And
• 17:02
  I've
• 17:03
  just
• 17:03
  noticed,
• 17:03
  you
• 17:03
  know,
• 17:03
  I've
• 17:03
  talked
• 17:04
  to
• 17:04
  a
• 17:04
  lot
• 17:04
  of
• 17:04
  teachers
• 17:04
  and,
• 17:05
  and
• 17:05
  the
• 17:05
  good
• 17:05
  ones
• 17:06
  are,
• 17:06
  the
• 17:06
  real
• 17:06
  ones
• 17:06
  do
• 17:06
  seem
• 17:07
  to
• 17:07
  reference
• 17:08
  something
• 17:08
  that
• 17:08
  the
• 17:09
  universe,
• 17:09
  however
• 17:10
  you
• 17:10
  want
• 17:10
  to
• 17:10
  phrase,
• 17:10
  that
• 17:10
  gave
• 17:11
  them
• 17:11
  in
• 17:11
  order
• 17:12
  to
• 17:12
  encourage
• 17:12
  them
• 17:13
  to
• 17:13
  walk
• 17:13
  the
• 17:13
  path.
• 17:14
  That's
• 17:14
  interesting,
• 17:15
  John.
• 17:15
  I'll
• 17:16
  just
• 17:16
  add
• 17:16
  and
• 17:17
  weave
• 17:17
  in
• 17:17
  what
• 17:17
  you
• 17:18
  just
• 17:18
  said,
• 17:18
  John
• 17:19
  and
• 17:19
  Roger,
• 17:19
  to
• 17:19
  your
• 17:20
  question.
• 17:20
  Just
• 17:20
  like
• 17:20
  this
• 17:21
  dilemma,
• 17:21
  or
• 17:21
  at
• 17:22
  least
• 17:22
  how
• 17:22
  the
• 17:22
  mind
• 17:23
  interprets
• 17:23
  it,
• 17:24
  I
• 17:24
  like
• 17:24
  a
• 17:24
  catch
• 17:25
  22,
• 17:25
  like
• 17:26
  there's
• 17:26
  nothing
• 17:26
  to
• 17:26
  get
• 17:26
  and
• 17:26
  you
• 17:27
  should
• 17:27
  practice
• 17:27
  like
• 17:27
  your
• 17:27
  hair's
• 17:28
  on
• 17:28
  fire.
• 17:29
  I
• 17:30
  was
• 17:30
  and
• 17:31
  can
• 17:31
  still
• 17:31
  feel
• 17:31
  the
• 17:31
  part
• 17:32
  of
• 17:32
  me
• 17:32
  that's
• 17:32
  seeking
• 17:33
  some
• 17:33
  big
• 17:33
  experience.
• 17:34
  But
• 17:34
  definitely
• 17:35
  what
• 17:35
  I
• 17:36
  want
• 17:36
  to
• 17:36
  say
• 17:36
  is,
• 17:37
  so
• 17:37
  here's
• 17:37
  the
• 17:37
  story
• 17:38
  that
• 17:38
  kind
• 17:38
  of
• 17:38
  encapsulates
• 17:39
  it
• 17:39
  and
• 17:39
  the
• 17:40
  punchline
• 17:40
  is
• 17:40
  Zen
• 17:41
  is
• 17:41
  the
• 17:41
  wholehearted
• 17:42
  way.
• 17:42
  So
• 17:42
  at
• 17:43
  least
• 17:43
  in
• 17:43
  how
• 17:43
  I
• 17:43
  interpret
• 17:44
  it,
• 17:44
  in
• 17:44
  terms
• 17:44
  of
• 17:45
  the
• 17:45
  wakefulness
• 17:46
  that
• 17:46
  is
• 17:46
  already
• 17:47
  here
• 17:47
  and
• 17:47
  is
• 17:48
  cultivatable
• 17:49
  through
• 17:49
  practice,
• 17:50
  allowing
• 17:50
  me
• 17:51
  to
• 17:51
  be
• 17:51
  fully
• 17:51
  with
• 17:52
  whatever's
• 17:52
  arising
• 17:53
  for
• 17:53
  me
• 17:53
  is
• 17:54
  the
• 17:54
  name
• 17:54
  of
• 17:54
  the
• 17:54
  game
• 17:55
  as
• 17:55
  far
• 17:55
  as
• 17:55
  I'm
• 17:55
  concerned.
• 17:56
  And
• 17:56
  I
• 17:56
  remember
• 17:57
  two
• 17:57
  years
• 17:57
  in.
• 17:58
  So
• 17:58
  here's
• 17:59
  the
• 17:59
  hubris
• 17:59
  check.
• 18:00
  Two
• 18:00
  years
• 18:00
  into
• 18:00
  practicing
• 18:01
  with
• 18:01
  Di,.
• 18:03
  Two.
• 18:04
  Years
• 18:04
  into
• 18:04
  practicing
• 18:05
  with
• 18:05
  dai,
• 18:05
  I
• 18:05
  decided
• 18:06
  to
• 18:06
  have
• 18:06
  a
• 18:06
  heart
• 18:06
  surgery.
• 18:07
  And
• 18:08
  it
• 18:08
  wasn't
• 18:08
  an
• 18:09
  object
• 18:09
  at
• 18:09
  the
• 18:09
  time,
• 18:09
  but
• 18:09
  I
• 18:10
  went
• 18:10
  into
• 18:10
  that
• 18:10
  surgery
• 18:11
  with
• 18:11
  a
• 18:11
  spiritual
• 18:12
  identity,
• 18:13
  with
• 18:14
  a
• 18:14
  fabricated
• 18:16
  equanimity,
• 18:17
  with
• 18:17
  a
• 18:18
  self
• 18:18
  image
• 18:19
  that
• 18:19
  had
• 18:20
  it
• 18:20
  all
• 18:20
  together
• 18:20
  and
• 18:21
  can
• 18:21
  be
• 18:21
  in
• 18:21
  the
• 18:21
  face
• 18:22
  of
• 18:22
  a
• 18:22
  heart
• 18:23
  surgery.
• 18:23
  And
• 18:24
  on
• 18:25
  the
• 18:25
  other
• 18:25
  side
• 18:25
  of
• 18:25
  the
• 18:25
  heart
• 18:26
  surgery,
• 18:26
  when
• 18:26
  I
• 18:26
  was
• 18:26
  in
• 18:26
  the
• 18:27
  intensive
• 18:27
  care
• 18:28
  unit
• 18:28
  post
• 18:28
  surgery,
• 18:29
  post
• 18:29
  op,
• 18:29
  I
• 18:30
  remember
• 18:30
  sitting
• 18:30
  there
• 18:30
  and
• 18:30
  my
• 18:31
  just
• 18:31
  embodied
• 18:32
  experience
• 18:33
  was
• 18:33
  so
• 18:33
  dysregulated
• 18:34
  because
• 18:34
  they
• 18:35
  were
• 18:35
  in
• 18:35
  my
• 18:35
  heart
• 18:35
  for
• 18:35
  about
• 18:36
  eight
• 18:36
  hours.
• 18:36
  And
• 18:37
  I
• 18:37
  remember
• 18:37
  having
• 18:37
  this
• 18:37
  experience
• 18:38
  of
• 18:38
  closing
• 18:38
  my
• 18:38
  eyes
• 18:39
  and
• 18:39
  feeling
• 18:39
  like
• 18:39
  my
• 18:40
  body
• 18:40
  was
• 18:41
  arcing
• 18:41
  out.
• 18:42
  So
• 18:42
  from
• 18:42
  head
• 18:43
  arcing
• 18:43
  out
• 18:43
  down
• 18:43
  to
• 18:44
  the
• 18:44
  toes.
• 18:44
  So
• 18:45
  it
• 18:45
  wasn't
• 18:45
  this
• 18:45
  straight
• 18:46
  vertical
• 18:46
  that
• 18:47
  I'm
• 18:47
  feeling
• 18:47
  right
• 18:47
  now.
• 18:48
  And
• 18:48
  there
• 18:49
  was
• 18:49
  just
• 18:49
  everything
• 18:49
  about
• 18:49
  my
• 18:50
  experience
• 18:51
  I
• 18:51
  just
• 18:51
  wanted
• 18:51
  to
• 18:52
  get
• 18:52
  out
• 18:52
  of.
• 18:52
  And
• 18:52
  I
• 18:53
  remember
• 18:53
  deploying
• 18:53
  every
• 18:54
  meditative
• 18:55
  breathing,
• 18:56
  put
• 18:56
  your
• 18:56
  attention
• 18:57
  here
• 18:57
  technique
• 18:58
  to
• 18:58
  get
• 18:58
  out
• 18:59
  of
• 18:59
  that
• 18:59
  experience,
• 19:00
  which
• 19:00
  all
• 19:01
  that
• 19:01
  did
• 19:01
  was
• 19:02
  increase
• 19:03
  my
• 19:03
  suffering
• 19:04
  tremendously.
• 19:05
  And
• 19:05
  I
• 19:05
  just
• 19:06
  couldn't
• 19:07
  relax
• 19:07
  with
• 19:08
  what
• 19:08
  was
• 19:08
  happening.
• 19:09
  And
• 19:09
  it
• 19:09
  was
• 19:10
  just
• 19:10
  in
• 19:10
  2020
• 19:10
  hindsight,
• 19:11
  which
• 19:11
  was
• 19:11
  like,
• 19:11
  oh
• 19:11
  my
• 19:12
  God,
• 19:12
  I
• 19:12
  was
• 19:12
  doing
• 19:12
  everything
• 19:14
  to
• 19:14
  not
• 19:15
  be
• 19:15
  with
• 19:15
  my
• 19:15
  experience.
• 19:16
  Every
• 19:17
  move
• 19:17
  I
• 19:17
  was
• 19:17
  making
• 19:18
  was
• 19:18
  one
• 19:19
  of
• 19:19
  not
• 19:19
  wanting
• 19:19
  to
• 19:19
  be
• 19:20
  with
• 19:20
  my
• 19:20
  experience.
• 19:21
  Fast
• 19:21
  forward
• 19:22
  to
• 19:22
  just
• 19:22
  a
• 19:22
  couple
• 19:23
  of
• 19:23
  days
• 19:23
  ago.
• 19:23
  We
• 19:24
  welcomed
• 19:24
  our
• 19:24
  second
• 19:25
  child
• 19:25
  on
• 19:25
  July
• 19:26
  4th,
• 19:26
  and
• 19:27
  three
• 19:27
  days
• 19:27
  after
• 19:28
  her
• 19:28
  arrival,
• 19:29
  we
• 19:29
  were
• 19:29
  back
• 19:29
  at
• 19:29
  the
• 19:30
  hospital
• 19:30
  because
• 19:30
  she
• 19:31
  had
• 19:31
  a
• 19:31
  high
• 19:31
  fever.
• 19:32
  Being
• 19:32
  in
• 19:33
  that
• 19:33
  hospital
• 19:33
  context
• 19:34
  and
• 19:35
  being
• 19:35
  visited
• 19:35
  by
• 19:36
  an
• 19:36
  intensity
• 19:37
  that
• 19:38
  was
• 19:38
  different
• 19:38
  but
• 19:39
  similar
• 19:39
  in
• 19:40
  kind
• 19:40
  to
• 19:40
  when
• 19:40
  I
• 19:40
  was
• 19:40
  in
• 19:41
  the
• 19:41
  hospital
• 19:41
  with
• 19:41
  my
• 19:41
  heart
• 19:41
  surgery.
• 19:42
  It
• 19:42
  was
• 19:42
  just
• 19:43
  the
• 19:43
  moment
• 19:44
  of
• 19:44
  just
• 19:45
  through
• 19:46
  practice,
• 19:46
  knowing
• 19:46
  how
• 19:47
  to
• 19:47
  relax
• 19:47
  as
• 19:48
  best
• 19:48
  as
• 19:48
  I
• 19:48
  could
• 19:49
  with
• 19:50
  that
• 19:50
  moment
• 19:50
  and
• 19:51
  seeing
• 19:52
  my
• 19:52
  little
• 19:52
  one
• 19:53
  being
• 19:53
  poked
• 19:54
  and
• 19:54
  prodded
• 19:54
  and
• 19:54
  spinal
• 19:55
  tapped
• 19:55
  and
• 19:56
  the
• 19:56
  whole
• 19:56
  nine.
• 19:57
  And
• 19:57
  just
• 19:58
  being
• 19:58
  able
• 19:58
  to
• 19:58
  be
• 19:58
  with
• 19:58
  that
• 19:59
  experience
• 20:00
  in
• 20:00
  a
• 20:00
  embodied
• 20:01
  way
• 20:01
  and
• 20:01
  not
• 20:01
  shying
• 20:02
  away
• 20:02
  from
• 20:02
  the
• 20:02
  grief
• 20:02
  and
• 20:03
  not
• 20:03
  shying
• 20:03
  away
• 20:03
  from
• 20:04
  the
• 20:04
  fear
• 20:05
  and
• 20:05
  being
• 20:05
  able
• 20:06
  to
• 20:07
  welcome
• 20:07
  those
• 20:08
  experiences
• 20:08
  and
• 20:08
  give
• 20:08
  voice
• 20:09
  to
• 20:09
  them,
• 20:09
  like
• 20:09
  telling
• 20:09
  the
• 20:09
  doctor,
• 20:10
  like,
• 20:10
  I'm
• 20:10
  so
• 20:10
  scared.
• 20:11
  And
• 20:11
  I
• 20:11
  think
• 20:11
  the
• 20:12
  spiritual
• 20:12
  identity
• 20:13
  that
• 20:13
  I
• 20:13
  had
• 20:13
  would
• 20:13
  never
• 20:13
  have
• 20:13
  permitted
• 20:14
  me
• 20:14
  to
• 20:14
  even
• 20:14
  say
• 20:14
  that.
• 20:15
  So
• 20:15
  all
• 20:15
  to
• 20:15
  say,
• 20:16
  I
• 20:16
  just
• 20:16
  want
• 20:16
  to
• 20:16
  evoke
• 20:17
  the
• 20:17
  wholehearted
• 20:18
  path,
• 20:18
  which
• 20:19
  is
• 20:19
  an
• 20:19
  embracing
• 20:19
  of
• 20:20
  everything.
• 20:20
  And
• 20:21
  it's
• 20:21
  not
• 20:21
  so
• 20:21
  much
• 20:21
  that
• 20:21
  we're
• 20:22
  chasing
• 20:22
  an
• 20:22
  experience.
• 20:24
  Awareness
• 20:24
  is
• 20:24
  ever
• 20:25
  present.
• 20:25
  You
• 20:26
  can
• 20:26
  have
• 20:26
  your
• 20:26
  big
• 20:26
  highs
• 20:26
  and
• 20:26
  they're
• 20:27
  going
• 20:27
  to
• 20:27
  go
• 20:27
  away.
• 20:28
  I
• 20:28
  think
• 20:28
  Suzuki
• 20:29
  Roshi
• 20:29
  in
• 20:30
  a
• 20:30
  Daisan
• 20:30
  or
• 20:31
  Dokusan
• 20:31
  with
• 20:31
  one
• 20:31
  of
• 20:31
  his
• 20:32
  students
• 20:32
  said,
• 20:32
  you
• 20:32
  know,
• 20:32
  I
• 20:32
  had
• 20:32
  this
• 20:32
  big
• 20:33
  experience.
• 20:33
  He
• 20:33
  said,
• 20:33
  great,
• 20:34
  that's
• 20:34
  fantastic.
• 20:34
  Just
• 20:34
  keep
• 20:35
  breathing,
• 20:35
  it'll
• 20:35
  go
• 20:35
  away.
• 20:39
  That's
• 20:39
  great.
• 20:39
  That's
• 20:40
  beautiful.
• 20:41
  All
• 20:42
  I
• 20:42
  want
• 20:42
  to
• 20:42
  say
• 20:42
  that
• 20:42
  there
• 20:43
  is
• 20:43
  a
• 20:43
  boldness
• 20:43
  and
• 20:44
  a
• 20:44
  courage
• 20:45
  that
• 20:45
  I
• 20:45
  think
• 20:45
  has
• 20:45
  been
• 20:46
  instilled
• 20:46
  in
• 20:47
  me
• 20:48
  in
• 20:48
  simply
• 20:49
  attending
• 20:50
  to
• 20:50
  what
• 20:50
  is
• 20:50
  right
• 20:50
  now.
• 20:51
  And
• 20:51
  Di
• 20:52
  said
• 20:52
  this,
• 20:52
  there's
• 20:52
  like
• 20:52
  nothing
• 20:53
  like
• 20:54
  just
• 20:54
  sitting
• 20:55
  with
• 20:55
  what
• 20:55
  is
• 20:56
  to
• 20:56
  prepare
• 20:57
  you
• 20:57
  to
• 20:57
  just
• 20:57
  be
• 20:58
  with
• 20:58
  what
• 20:58
  is
• 20:58
  whenever
• 20:59
  as
• 20:59
  that
• 21:00
  comes,
• 21:00
  I
• 21:00
  should
• 21:00
  say
• 21:00
  so
• 21:01
  I
• 21:01
  just
• 21:01
  want
• 21:01
  to
• 21:01
  at
• 21:02
  that.
• 21:02
  So
• 21:03
  you
• 21:03
  both
• 21:03
  pointed
• 21:04
  to
• 21:04
  some
• 21:05
  very
• 21:05
  important
• 21:06
  points
• 21:06
  here
• 21:06
  and
• 21:06
  I
• 21:06
  just
• 21:06
  want
• 21:07
  to
• 21:07
  kind
• 21:07
  of
• 21:07
  unpack
• 21:08
  a
• 21:08
  little
• 21:08
  of
• 21:08
  them
• 21:08
  because
• 21:09
  there's
• 21:09
  so
• 21:09
  much
• 21:09
  in
• 21:09
  what
• 21:10
  you've
• 21:10
  both
• 21:10
  said,
• 21:10
  but
• 21:10
  there's
• 21:11
  a.
• 21:11
  Both
• 21:12
  of
• 21:12
  you
• 21:12
  have
• 21:12
  emphasized
• 21:13
  the
• 21:13
  supreme
• 21:14
  importance
• 21:14
  of
• 21:15
  being
• 21:15
  willing
• 21:16
  to
• 21:16
  be
• 21:16
  with
• 21:16
  one's
• 21:17
  present
• 21:17
  experience
• 21:18
  and
• 21:19
  that
• 21:19
  the
• 21:20
  attempt
• 21:20
  to
• 21:20
  escape
• 21:21
  from
• 21:21
  shut
• 21:21
  down
• 21:22
  is
• 21:22
  basically
• 21:23
  going
• 21:23
  unconscious.
• 21:24
  The
• 21:24
  opposite
• 21:24
  in
• 21:25
  many
• 21:25
  ways,
• 21:25
  the
• 21:25
  opposite
• 21:26
  of
• 21:26
  waking
• 21:26
  up.
• 21:27
  And
• 21:27
  it's
• 21:28
  of
• 21:28
  course
• 21:28
  totally
• 21:29
  understandable.
• 21:29
  And
• 21:29
  I
• 21:30
  deep
• 21:30
  bow
• 21:30
  to
• 21:30
  you,
• 21:31
  Gabe,
• 21:31
  for
• 21:31
  both
• 21:31
  what
• 21:32
  you
• 21:32
  went
• 21:32
  through
• 21:32
  with
• 21:33
  your
• 21:33
  child
• 21:34
  and
• 21:34
  being
• 21:35
  willing
• 21:35
  to
• 21:36
  open
• 21:36
  to
• 21:36
  it.
• 21:36
  And
• 21:37
  there's
• 21:37
  more
• 21:38
  in
• 21:38
  what
• 21:38
  you
• 21:38
  both
• 21:39
  said
• 21:39
  because
• 21:39
  you
• 21:40
  pointed
• 21:40
  to
• 21:40
  the
• 21:40
  idea
• 21:41
  that
• 21:42
  as
• 21:42
  long
• 21:42
  as
• 21:42
  we
• 21:42
  have
• 21:42
  a
• 21:43
  belief
• 21:43
  that
• 21:44
  we're
• 21:44
  not,
• 21:45
  that
• 21:45
  this
• 21:46
  isn't
• 21:46
  it
• 21:46
  or
• 21:46
  we're
• 21:47
  not
• 21:47
  good
• 21:47
  enough,
• 21:47
  then
• 21:48
  of
• 21:48
  course
• 21:49
  the
• 21:50
  awakening
• 21:51
  or
• 21:52
  being
• 21:52
  complete
• 21:53
  or
• 21:53
  feeling
• 21:53
  whole
• 21:54
  has
• 21:54
  to
• 21:54
  be
• 21:54
  a
• 21:54
  future
• 21:55
  oriented
• 21:55
  project
• 21:56
  by
• 21:56
  definition
• 21:57
  can't
• 21:57
  be
• 21:58
  a
• 21:58
  simple
• 21:58
  opening
• 21:59
  to
• 21:59
  an
• 21:59
  acceptance
• 22:00
  of
• 22:00
  ourselves
• 22:00
  fully
• 22:01
  as
• 22:01
  we
• 22:01
  are
• 22:01
  now.
• 22:01
  So
• 22:02
  there's
• 22:02
  something
• 22:02
  very
• 22:02
  profound
• 22:03
  about
• 22:03
  that.
• 22:04
  And
• 22:04
  yet,
• 22:06
  and
• 22:06
  yet
• 22:06
  the
• 22:07
  practice
• 22:07
  is
• 22:08
  awakening
• 22:09
  still
• 22:09
  seems
• 22:10
  like
• 22:10
  a
• 22:10
  con.
• 22:11
  Because
• 22:12
  any
• 22:12
  moment
• 22:12
  of
• 22:12
  practice
• 22:13
  there
• 22:13
  can
• 22:13
  be
• 22:13
  acceptance,
• 22:14
  there
• 22:14
  can
• 22:14
  be
• 22:15
  non
• 22:15
  acceptance.
• 22:16
  And
• 22:17
  is
• 22:17
  that
• 22:17
  awakening?
• 22:18
  Well,
• 22:18
  yeah,
• 22:18
  from
• 22:19
  one
• 22:19
  perspective,
• 22:19
  yes,
• 22:21
  the
• 22:21
  non
• 22:21
  acceptance
• 22:22
  is
• 22:22
  also
• 22:22
  awakening.
• 22:24
  And
• 22:25
  so
• 22:25
  anyway,
• 22:25
  I
• 22:25
  take
• 22:26
  it
• 22:26
  as.
• 22:26
  A
• 22:26
  Cohen,
• 22:27
  I
• 22:27
  think
• 22:27
  I
• 22:27
  may
• 22:27
  have
• 22:28
  found
• 22:28
  a
• 22:28
  key.
• 22:28
  This
• 22:28
  morning
• 22:29
  when
• 22:29
  I
• 22:29
  was
• 22:29
  meditating,
• 22:30
  my
• 22:30
  mind
• 22:30
  was
• 22:30
  just.
• 22:31
  And
• 22:31
  I've
• 22:31
  been
• 22:31
  very
• 22:32
  sure
• 22:32
  I
• 22:32
  don't
• 22:32
  look
• 22:33
  at
• 22:33
  any
• 22:33
  news
• 22:33
  anymore
• 22:34
  before
• 22:35
  I
• 22:35
  do
• 22:35
  my
• 22:35
  practice
• 22:35
  in
• 22:35
  the
• 22:36
  morning,
• 22:36
  you
• 22:36
  know,
• 22:36
  even
• 22:37
  if
• 22:37
  the
• 22:37
  little
• 22:37
  blurbs
• 22:37
  are
• 22:38
  coming
• 22:38
  to
• 22:38
  the
• 22:38
  phone,
• 22:38
  I
• 22:38
  turn
• 22:38
  the
• 22:39
  phone
• 22:39
  over,
• 22:39
  I
• 22:39
  refuse
• 22:40
  to
• 22:40
  look
• 22:40
  at
• 22:40
  really
• 22:40
  helped,
• 22:41
  but
• 22:41
  my
• 22:41
  mind
• 22:41
  was
• 22:42
  just
• 22:42
  going
• 22:42
  and
• 22:42
  I
• 22:42
  went
• 22:43
  like
• 22:43
  to
• 22:44
  stop
• 22:44
  my
• 22:44
  mind
• 22:44
  and
• 22:45
  it
• 22:46
  worked.
• 22:46
  I
• 22:47
  don't
• 22:47
  know.
• 22:47
  So
• 22:47
  maybe
• 22:47
  that's,
• 22:48
  that's
• 22:48
  something
• 22:49
  you
• 22:49
  guys.
• 22:49
  Can
• 22:49
  share
• 22:49
  with
• 22:49
  your
• 22:50
  students.
• 22:50
  I'm
• 22:50
  kind
• 22:50
  of
• 22:51
  kidding.
• 22:51
  But
• 22:51
  it
• 22:51
  was
• 22:51
  amazing
• 22:52
  that
• 22:52
  just
• 22:52
  a
• 22:52
  moment
• 22:52
  of
• 22:53
  grace
• 22:53
  like
• 22:53
  oh,
• 22:53
  that
• 22:54
  actually
• 22:54
  work
• 22:54
  and
• 22:55
  I'll
• 22:55
  probably
• 22:55
  do
• 22:55
  that
• 22:55
  tomorrow
• 22:56
  and
• 22:56
  it'll
• 22:56
  just
• 22:56
  make
• 22:56
  my
• 22:57
  mind
• 22:57
  talk
• 22:57
  thing
• 22:57
  more
• 22:58
  about
• 22:58
  going.
• 22:59
  But
• 22:59
  anyway,
• 22:59
  that
• 22:59
  was
• 23:00
  a
• 23:00
  very,
• 23:00
  very,
• 23:00
  very
• 23:01
  nice
• 23:01
  moment.
• 23:02
  Nice.
• 23:03
  I
• 23:03
  guess
• 23:03
  two
• 23:04
  things
• 23:04
  come
• 23:04
  to
• 23:04
  mind.
• 23:05
  I'm
• 23:05
  just
• 23:05
  recalling
• 23:06
  the
• 23:06
  moment,
• 23:07
  you
• 23:07
  know,
• 23:07
  after,
• 23:07
  I
• 23:08
  don't
• 23:08
  know,
• 23:08
  eight
• 23:08
  years
• 23:09
  of
• 23:09
  striving
• 23:10
  for
• 23:10
  a
• 23:10
  big
• 23:10
  opening
• 23:11
  and
• 23:11
  then
• 23:11
  realizing
• 23:12
  there's
• 23:12
  no
• 23:12
  big
• 23:12
  opening
• 23:13
  to
• 23:13
  be
• 23:13
  had.
• 23:14
  And
• 23:14
  then
• 23:14
  just
• 23:14
  the
• 23:15
  utter
• 23:15
  oh
• 23:15
  my
• 23:15
  God
• 23:16
  relief
• 23:16
  of
• 23:16
  that
• 23:17
  and
• 23:17
  how
• 23:18
  quickly
• 23:19
  my
• 23:19
  mind,
• 23:19
  my
• 23:20
  ego
• 23:20
  went
• 23:20
  to
• 23:20
  work
• 23:21
  on
• 23:21
  appropriating
• 23:22
  that
• 23:22
  insight
• 23:22
  and
• 23:22
  imagining
• 23:23
  how
• 23:23
  I'm
• 23:23
  going
• 23:23
  to
• 23:23
  present
• 23:23
  it
• 23:24
  to
• 23:24
  Diane
• 23:24
  and
• 23:25
  the
• 23:26
  exchange
• 23:26
  that
• 23:26
  we're
• 23:26
  going
• 23:26
  to
• 23:27
  have
• 23:27
  and
• 23:27
  it's
• 23:27
  going
• 23:27
  to
• 23:27
  be
• 23:28
  just
• 23:28
  like,
• 23:28
  you
• 23:28
  know,
• 23:29
  Wei
• 23:29
  Non
• 23:29
  with
• 23:30
  the
• 23:30
  Chinese
• 23:30
  patriarch
• 23:31
  and
• 23:31
  his
• 23:31
  teacher,
• 23:32
  you
• 23:32
  know,
• 23:32
  just
• 23:33
  instantly
• 23:34
  appropriated.
• 23:35
  Wow.
• 23:37
  And
• 23:38
  one
• 23:38
  of
• 23:38
  the
• 23:38
  instructions
• 23:39
  that
• 23:39
  Master
• 23:40
  Dogen
• 23:40
  presents
• 23:41
  is
• 23:41
  practice,
• 23:42
  realize
• 23:43
  and
• 23:44
  cast
• 23:44
  it
• 23:44
  away.
• 23:45
  So
• 23:45
  just
• 23:45
  to
• 23:45
  your
• 23:45
  point,
• 23:46
  John,
• 23:46
  you
• 23:47
  found
• 23:47
  something
• 23:47
  that
• 23:47
  worked
• 23:48
  today
• 23:48
  and
• 23:48
  then
• 23:48
  tomorrow,
• 23:49
  intuitively
• 23:50
  you're
• 23:50
  absolutely
• 23:50
  right.
• 23:50
  Your
• 23:51
  ego's
• 23:51
  gonna
• 23:51
  take
• 23:51
  that
• 23:52
  and
• 23:52
  be
• 23:52
  like
• 23:52
  this
• 23:52
  worked
• 23:52
  yesterday.
• 23:53
  I'm
• 23:53
  gonna
• 23:54
  do
• 23:54
  it.
• 23:54
  I
• 23:54
  really
• 23:55
  found
• 23:55
  something.
• 23:55
  Yes
• 23:56
  siree,
• 23:57
  it's
• 23:57
  not
• 23:58
  gonna
• 23:58
  work.
• 23:59
  And
• 23:59
  so
• 23:59
  that
• 24:00
  practice
• 24:00
  instruction,
• 24:01
  Roger,
• 24:01
  I
• 24:02
  think
• 24:02
  just
• 24:02
  to
• 24:02
  your
• 24:03
  last
• 24:03
  riff
• 24:03
  is
• 24:04
  really
• 24:04
  important
• 24:04
  to
• 24:04
  Me.
• 24:05
  And
• 24:05
  there
• 24:05
  was
• 24:05
  one
• 24:05
  thing,
• 24:06
  but
• 24:06
  I'll
• 24:06
  let
• 24:06
  that
• 24:06
  one
• 24:06
  go.
• 24:07
  We've
• 24:07
  talked
• 24:08
  about
• 24:08
  waking
• 24:08
  up.
• 24:09
  The
• 24:10
  other
• 24:10
  part
• 24:10
  of
• 24:10
  your
• 24:11
  title
• 24:11
  is
• 24:11
  Growing
• 24:12
  Up.
• 24:12
  Maybe
• 24:13
  you
• 24:13
  could
• 24:13
  talk
• 24:13
  about
• 24:14
  this.
• 24:14
  And
• 24:14
  it
• 24:14
  seems
• 24:15
  like
• 24:15
  in
• 24:15
  reading
• 24:15
  your
• 24:16
  book,
• 24:16
  you
• 24:16
  use
• 24:17
  that
• 24:17
  phrase
• 24:17
  in
• 24:18
  two
• 24:18
  ways.
• 24:18
  One
• 24:19
  is
• 24:19
  more
• 24:19
  in
• 24:20
  Ken
• 24:20
  Wilber's
• 24:20
  sense
• 24:21
  of
• 24:22
  growing
• 24:22
  up
• 24:22
  as
• 24:23
  the
• 24:23
  process
• 24:24
  of
• 24:25
  maturation
• 24:26
  through
• 24:26
  specific
• 24:27
  psychological
• 24:27
  stages.
• 24:28
  And
• 24:29
  you
• 24:29
  know,
• 24:29
  as
• 24:29
  you
• 24:30
  point
• 24:30
  out,
• 24:30
  one
• 24:30
  of
• 24:30
  the
• 24:30
  great
• 24:31
  discoveries
• 24:31
  of
• 24:31
  contemporary
• 24:32
  psychology
• 24:33
  is
• 24:33
  that
• 24:33
  adults
• 24:33
  can
• 24:34
  keep
• 24:34
  developing
• 24:34
  through
• 24:35
  recognizable,
• 24:36
  specific,
• 24:37
  remarkable
• 24:38
  stages
• 24:39
  of
• 24:39
  development,
• 24:40
  whether
• 24:40
  it's
• 24:40
  emotional
• 24:41
  or
• 24:41
  ego
• 24:42
  or
• 24:43
  faith
• 24:43
  or
• 24:43
  whatever.
• 24:44
  But
• 24:45
  you
• 24:45
  also
• 24:45
  use
• 24:46
  it
• 24:46
  at
• 24:46
  least
• 24:46
  in
• 24:47
  sometimes
• 24:48
  in
• 24:48
  the
• 24:48
  sense
• 24:48
  more.
• 24:49
  What
• 24:49
  I
• 24:49
  get
• 24:50
  a
• 24:50
  sense
• 24:50
  is
• 24:50
  more
• 24:50
  of
• 24:51
  developing
• 24:52
  life
• 24:52
  skills
• 24:53
  and
• 24:53
  capacities.
• 24:54
  So
• 24:55
  please.
• 24:56
  I'm
• 24:56
  happy
• 24:56
  that
• 24:57
  you
• 24:57
  identified
• 24:57
  that,
• 24:58
  because
• 24:58
  it's
• 24:58
  one
• 24:58
  of
• 24:58
  my
• 24:58
  critiques
• 24:59
  of
• 24:59
  the
• 25:00
  book,
• 25:00
  actually,
• 25:00
  Roger,
• 25:01
  is
• 25:01
  that
• 25:01
  I
• 25:01
  feel
• 25:01
  like
• 25:02
  we
• 25:02
  are
• 25:02
  using
• 25:02
  it
• 25:02
  in
• 25:03
  two
• 25:03
  ways
• 25:03
  and
• 25:03
  we're
• 25:03
  not
• 25:04
  necessarily
• 25:05
  making
• 25:06
  it
• 25:06
  clear.
• 25:06
  Now.
• 25:06
  The.
• 25:07
  I
• 25:07
  think
• 25:07
  that
• 25:08
  the
• 25:08
  unfolding,
• 25:10
  so
• 25:11
  unfolding
• 25:12
  waves
• 25:13
  of
• 25:14
  development
• 25:14
  where
• 25:14
  we
• 25:15
  move
• 25:15
  from
• 25:15
  egocentric
• 25:17
  to
• 25:18
  sociocentric
• 25:19
  or
• 25:19
  ethnocentric
• 25:20
  to
• 25:20
  world
• 25:20
  centric.
• 25:21
  And
• 25:21
  that
• 25:21
  appears
• 25:22
  to
• 25:22
  be
• 25:22
  in
• 25:22
  our
• 25:22
  hard
• 25:23
  drive.
• 25:23
  It's
• 25:24
  like
• 25:24
  if
• 25:24
  the
• 25:24
  conditions
• 25:25
  are
• 25:25
  right
• 25:26
  and
• 25:26
  the
• 25:26
  stressors
• 25:27
  are.
• 25:27
  They're
• 25:28
  challenging
• 25:28
  enough,
• 25:29
  but
• 25:29
  they
• 25:29
  don't
• 25:29
  overwhelm
• 25:30
  us.
• 25:30
  We
• 25:31
  open
• 25:31
  to
• 25:31
  new
• 25:32
  ways
• 25:32
  of
• 25:32
  seeing,
• 25:32
  and
• 25:32
  it's
• 25:33
  like
• 25:33
  a
• 25:33
  whole
• 25:33
  new
• 25:33
  value
• 25:34
  set
• 25:34
  drops
• 25:34
  in
• 25:35
  and
• 25:35
  a
• 25:36
  whole
• 25:36
  new
• 25:36
  worldview
• 25:37
  drops
• 25:37
  in.
• 25:37
  We
• 25:37
  have
• 25:38
  the
• 25:38
  experience
• 25:38
  of,
• 25:39
  oh,
• 25:39
  I
• 25:39
  have
• 25:40
  to
• 25:40
  leave
• 25:40
  that
• 25:40
  relationship
• 25:41
  often,
• 25:42
  or
• 25:42
  I
• 25:42
  have
• 25:42
  to
• 25:43
  leave
• 25:43
  that
• 25:43
  religion
• 25:44
  of
• 25:44
  my
• 25:44
  upbringing
• 25:44
  because
• 25:45
  it's
• 25:45
  on
• 25:45
  accommodating
• 25:46
  new
• 25:46
  insights.
• 25:47
  So
• 25:48
  we
• 25:48
  are
• 25:48
  using
• 25:48
  it
• 25:49
  in
• 25:49
  terms
• 25:49
  of
• 25:49
  these
• 25:49
  waves
• 25:50
  of
• 25:51
  development
• 25:51
  that
• 25:52
  come
• 25:52
  with
• 25:52
  human
• 25:52
  consciousness
• 25:53
  that
• 25:54
  unfold
• 25:54
  in
• 25:54
  a
• 25:54
  pattern.
• 25:55
  And
• 25:55
  then
• 25:55
  we
• 25:56
  are
• 25:56
  also
• 25:57
  talking
• 25:57
  about
• 25:58
  the
• 25:59
  interpersonal
• 25:59
  in
• 26:00
  a
• 26:00
  way,
• 26:00
  as
• 26:00
  a
• 26:00
  line
• 26:01
  of
• 26:01
  development
• 26:02
  so
• 26:02
  that
• 26:02
  one
• 26:02
  needs
• 26:03
  to
• 26:03
  become.
• 26:04
  But
• 26:05
  it's
• 26:05
  not
• 26:05
  as
• 26:05
  clear
• 26:05
  as
• 26:05
  it
• 26:05
  should
• 26:06
  be
• 26:06
  in
• 26:06
  the
• 26:06
  book,
• 26:06
  Roger.
• 26:07
  So
• 26:08
  I
• 26:08
  wish
• 26:08
  I
• 26:08
  had
• 26:08
  made
• 26:08
  that
• 26:09
  connection
• 26:09
  more.
• 26:10
  So
• 26:10
  the
• 26:10
  interpersonal
• 26:11
  skills
• 26:11
  begin
• 26:11
  with
• 26:12
  a
• 26:12
  relationship
• 26:12
  to
• 26:13
  ourselves.
• 26:13
  Our
• 26:13
  willingness
• 26:14
  to
• 26:14
  actually
• 26:14
  drop
• 26:15
  into
• 26:15
  our
• 26:15
  experience,
• 26:17
  to
• 26:17
  be
• 26:17
  able
• 26:17
  to
• 26:17
  try
• 26:18
  to
• 26:18
  articulate
• 26:19
  and
• 26:19
  use
• 26:19
  language
• 26:20
  to
• 26:20
  begin
• 26:20
  to
• 26:21
  describe
• 26:21
  what's
• 26:21
  happening
• 26:22
  for
• 26:22
  us.
• 26:23
  We
• 26:23
  also
• 26:23
  develop
• 26:24
  the
• 26:24
  generosity
• 26:25
  of
• 26:25
  becoming
• 26:25
  good
• 26:26
  learners.
• 26:26
  Being
• 26:26
  interested
• 26:27
  in
• 26:27
  another
• 26:27
  perspective
• 26:28
  and
• 26:29
  then
• 26:29
  what
• 26:30
  was
• 26:30
  originally
• 26:30
  the
• 26:30
  only
• 26:31
  perspective?
• 26:32
  Mine.
• 26:32
  Because
• 26:33
  obviously
• 26:33
  when
• 26:34
  we're
• 26:34
  under
• 26:34
  stress,
• 26:34
  my
• 26:35
  perspective
• 26:35
  is
• 26:35
  the
• 26:36
  one
• 26:36
  place
• 26:36
  I
• 26:36
  can
• 26:36
  hold
• 26:37
  onto
• 26:37
  and
• 26:37
  find
• 26:38
  security.
• 26:39
  You
• 26:39
  know,
• 26:39
  we
• 26:39
  actually
• 26:39
  can
• 26:40
  start
• 26:40
  to
• 26:40
  hear
• 26:40
  another
• 26:40
  point
• 26:41
  of
• 26:41
  view,
• 26:41
  and
• 26:41
  then
• 26:41
  we
• 26:42
  can
• 26:42
  take
• 26:42
  on
• 26:42
  a
• 26:42
  third
• 26:42
  point
• 26:43
  of
• 26:43
  view.
• 26:43
  So
• 26:44
  it
• 26:44
  unfolds
• 26:44
  in
• 26:45
  a
• 26:45
  very
• 26:45
  similar
• 26:45
  way.
• 26:46
  But
• 26:46
  that
• 26:46
  connection
• 26:47
  isn't
• 26:47
  made
• 26:47
  clearly
• 26:48
  in
• 26:48
  the
• 26:48
  book.
• 26:49
  So
• 26:50
  it's
• 26:50
  a
• 26:50
  consciousness,
• 26:51
  it's
• 26:51
  an
• 26:51
  unfolding
• 26:52
  of
• 26:52
  consciousness.
• 26:53
  Like
• 26:53
  I
• 26:53
  actually
• 26:53
  want
• 26:54
  to
• 26:54
  hear
• 26:54
  what
• 26:54
  you
• 26:54
  think.
• 26:55
  I
• 26:55
  actually
• 26:55
  want
• 26:56
  to
• 26:56
  hear
• 26:56
  what
• 26:56
  the
• 26:56
  research
• 26:57
  says.
• 26:58
  I'm
• 26:58
  interested
• 26:58
  how
• 26:59
  this
• 26:59
  plays
• 26:59
  in
• 26:59
  other
• 27:00
  cultures.
• 27:00
  But
• 27:01
  the
• 27:01
  skills
• 27:01
  that
• 27:02
  are
• 27:02
  needed
• 27:03
  to
• 27:03
  accommodate
• 27:04
  those
• 27:04
  levels
• 27:05
  of
• 27:05
  development
• 27:05
  are
• 27:06
  also
• 27:06
  important.
• 27:06
  And
• 27:07
  that's
• 27:07
  one
• 27:07
  of
• 27:07
  the
• 27:07
  things
• 27:07
  we
• 27:08
  try
• 27:08
  to
• 27:08
  do
• 27:09
  in
• 27:09
  our
• 27:09
  practice,
• 27:10
  is
• 27:10
  give
• 27:10
  people
• 27:10
  some
• 27:11
  skills
• 27:12
  as
• 27:12
  well
• 27:12
  as
• 27:13
  acknowledge
• 27:14
  that,
• 27:14
  for
• 27:14
  example,
• 27:15
  another
• 27:15
  thing
• 27:15
  might
• 27:15
  be
• 27:16
  the
• 27:16
  capacity
• 27:16
  to
• 27:17
  sit
• 27:17
  with
• 27:17
  not
• 27:17
  knowing.
• 27:18
  You
• 27:18
  know,
• 27:18
  that
• 27:19
  tends
• 27:19
  to
• 27:19
  be
• 27:19
  a
• 27:19
  relatively
• 27:20
  highly
• 27:21
  developed
• 27:22
  interpersonal
• 27:22
  skill.
• 27:23
  Not
• 27:23
  to
• 27:24
  know
• 27:24
  an
• 27:24
  outcome,
• 27:25
  but
• 27:25
  to
• 27:26
  be
• 27:26
  able
• 27:26
  to
• 27:26
  express
• 27:27
  that,
• 27:27
  that
• 27:27
  I
• 27:28
  don't
• 27:28
  know
• 27:28
  and
• 27:28
  do
• 27:29
  it
• 27:29
  in
• 27:29
  a
• 27:29
  way
• 27:29
  that
• 27:29
  there's
• 27:30
  still
• 27:30
  inquiry
• 27:30
  and
• 27:30
  curiosity.
• 27:31
  So
• 27:32
  I
• 27:32
  appreciate
• 27:32
  that
• 27:33
  we
• 27:33
  are
• 27:33
  using
• 27:33
  it
• 27:33
  in
• 27:34
  two
• 27:34
  different
• 27:34
  ways.
• 27:34
  And
• 27:34
  I
• 27:34
  wish
• 27:35
  I
• 27:35
  had
• 27:35
  made
• 27:35
  the
• 27:35
  connection
• 27:36
  between
• 27:36
  those
• 27:36
  two
• 27:37
  different
• 27:37
  ways
• 27:37
  a
• 27:37
  little
• 27:37
  more
• 27:38
  clear.
• 27:38
  Well,
• 27:38
  they're
• 27:39
  both
• 27:39
  clearly
• 27:39
  important.
• 27:40
  And
• 27:41
  the
• 27:42
  growing
• 27:43
  up
• 27:43
  in
• 27:43
  the
• 27:44
  capacity
• 27:44
  for
• 27:45
  taking
• 27:45
  bigger
• 27:46
  and
• 27:46
  bigger
• 27:46
  pictures,
• 27:47
  for
• 27:47
  being
• 27:47
  having
• 27:48
  kind
• 27:48
  of
• 27:49
  more
• 27:49
  sophisticated
• 27:50
  operating
• 27:50
  system
• 27:52
  through
• 27:52
  which
• 27:52
  to
• 27:52
  see
• 27:53
  the
• 27:53
  world
• 27:53
  and
• 27:54
  through
• 27:54
  which
• 27:54
  to
• 27:54
  live
• 27:55
  it
• 27:55
  is
• 27:55
  crucial.
• 27:56
  And
• 27:57
  yet
• 27:57
  you're
• 27:58
  also
• 27:58
  bringing
• 27:58
  in
• 27:59
  what
• 27:59
  I
• 27:59
  think
• 27:59
  of
• 27:59
  as
• 28:00
  kind
• 28:00
  of
• 28:00
  skills
• 28:01
  development,
• 28:01
  life
• 28:01
  skills.
• 28:02
  That's
• 28:03
  right.
• 28:03
  And
• 28:03
  that's
• 28:03
  incredibly
• 28:04
  important
• 28:05
  too,
• 28:05
  because
• 28:06
  it
• 28:07
  really
• 28:07
  hasn't
• 28:07
  been
• 28:07
  emphasized
• 28:08
  in
• 28:08
  traditional
• 28:09
  contemplative
• 28:09
  traditions.
• 28:10
  Not
• 28:10
  just
• 28:10
  Zen,
• 28:11
  but
• 28:11
  the
• 28:12
  world's
• 28:12
  contemplative
• 28:12
  traditions,
• 28:13
  many
• 28:13
  of
• 28:13
  which
• 28:14
  a
• 28:14
  lot
• 28:15
  of
• 28:15
  times
• 28:15
  were
• 28:15
  practiced
• 28:16
  by
• 28:16
  people
• 28:16
  in
• 28:16
  monastic
• 28:17
  settings
• 28:18
  where
• 28:18
  they
• 28:19
  didn't
• 28:19
  have
• 28:19
  to
• 28:19
  deal
• 28:20
  with
• 28:20
  a
• 28:21
  lot
• 28:21
  of
• 28:21
  the
• 28:21
  friction
• 28:22
  of
• 28:22
  ordinary
• 28:22
  day
• 28:23
  life
• 28:23
  and
• 28:23
  intimate
• 28:24
  relationships,
• 28:24
  et
• 28:25
  cetera,
• 28:25
  not
• 28:25
  to
• 28:25
  mention
• 28:26
  today's
• 28:27
  media
• 28:28
  and
• 28:29
  political,
• 28:30
  et
• 28:30
  cetera,
• 28:30
  et
• 28:30
  cetera.
• 28:31
  So,
• 28:32
  you
• 28:32
  know,
• 28:32
  I
• 28:33
  want
• 28:33
  to
• 28:33
  acknowledge
• 28:34
  that
• 28:34
  both
• 28:34
  are
• 28:35
  really
• 28:35
  important.
• 28:37
  Yeah,
• 28:37
  thank
• 28:38
  you.
• 28:38
  I
• 28:38
  think
• 28:38
  so
• 28:38
  too.
• 28:39
  And
• 28:40
  I
• 28:40
  think
• 28:40
  that
• 28:41
  in
• 28:41
  a
• 28:41
  certain
• 28:42
  way,
• 28:42
  some
• 28:43
  of
• 28:43
  the
• 28:43
  skills
• 28:43
  that
• 28:43
  we're
• 28:44
  beginning
• 28:44
  to
• 28:44
  learn
• 28:44
  in
• 28:45
  the
• 28:45
  interpersonal
• 28:45
  domain.
• 28:46
  So,
• 28:46
  for
• 28:46
  example,
• 28:47
  how
• 28:48
  to
• 28:48
  experience
• 28:49
  your
• 28:49
  nervous
• 28:50
  system
• 28:50
  as
• 28:50
  stressed
• 28:51
  when
• 28:51
  it's
• 28:51
  challenged.
• 28:52
  So
• 28:52
  somebody
• 28:53
  argues
• 28:53
  with
• 28:53
  my
• 28:53
  perspective,
• 28:54
  and
• 28:54
  not
• 28:54
  only
• 28:55
  are
• 28:55
  there
• 28:56
  two
• 28:56
  perspectives
• 28:57
  that
• 28:57
  I
• 28:57
  have
• 28:57
  to
• 28:57
  grapple
• 28:58
  with,
• 28:58
  I
• 28:58
  have
• 28:58
  to
• 28:58
  grapple
• 28:59
  with
• 28:59
  a
• 28:59
  whole
• 28:59
  pallet
• 28:59
  of
• 29:00
  sensations
• 29:01
  because
• 29:01
  somehow
• 29:02
  my
• 29:02
  self
• 29:02
  image
• 29:02
  is
• 29:03
  challenged.
• 29:03
  And
• 29:04
  so
• 29:04
  I've
• 29:04
  got
• 29:04
  adrenaline
• 29:05
  and
• 29:05
  cortisol
• 29:05
  streaming
• 29:06
  into
• 29:06
  my
• 29:06
  bloodstream
• 29:07
  because
• 29:07
  somebody
• 29:07
  has
• 29:07
  a
• 29:07
  strong
• 29:08
  disagreement
• 29:08
  with
• 29:08
  me.
• 29:09
  And
• 29:09
  to
• 29:09
  learn
• 29:10
  to
• 29:10
  befriend
• 29:11
  those
• 29:11
  sensations
• 29:12
  instead
• 29:13
  of
• 29:13
  to
• 29:13
  respond
• 29:14
  defensively,
• 29:14
  which
• 29:15
  is
• 29:15
  what
• 29:15
  they're
• 29:15
  cueing
• 29:16
  us
• 29:16
  to
• 29:16
  do.
• 29:17
  That's
• 29:17
  a
• 29:18
  very
• 29:18
  recent
• 29:18
  thing
• 29:19
  born
• 29:19
  of
• 29:19
  neuroscience.
• 29:20
  You
• 29:20
  know,
• 29:20
  that's
• 29:20
  not
• 29:20
  something
• 29:21
  that
• 29:21
  was
• 29:21
  available
• 29:21
  to
• 29:22
  people
• 29:22
  sitting
• 29:22
  in
• 29:23
  zendos
• 29:24
  in
• 29:24
  Japan
• 29:24
  in
• 29:25
  the
• 29:25
  medieval
• 29:25
  era.
• 29:26
  It's
• 29:26
  it's
• 29:26
  post
• 29:27
  modern.
• 29:28
  You
• 29:28
  know,
• 29:29
  it's
• 29:29
  something
• 29:29
  that
• 29:29
  science
• 29:30
  has
• 29:30
  helped
• 29:30
  us
• 29:30
  with.
• 29:31
  And
• 29:32
  I
• 29:32
  would
• 29:32
  say
• 29:33
  that
• 29:33
  just
• 29:33
  the
• 29:34
  way
• 29:34
  that
• 29:34
  we
• 29:34
  do
• 29:34
  reflective
• 29:35
  listening,
• 29:35
  for
• 29:35
  example,
• 29:37
  I
• 29:37
  didn't
• 29:37
  grow.
• 29:37
  I
• 29:38
  never
• 29:38
  saw
• 29:38
  an
• 29:38
  adult
• 29:39
  model
• 29:39
  reflective
• 29:40
  listening
• 29:40
  skills.
• 29:40
  I
• 29:41
  don't
• 29:41
  know
• 29:41
  if
• 29:41
  Carl
• 29:42
  Rogers
• 29:42
  is
• 29:42
  responsible
• 29:43
  for
• 29:43
  where
• 29:44
  the
• 29:44
  importance
• 29:44
  of
• 29:45
  reflection
• 29:45
  started
• 29:46
  to
• 29:46
  emerge
• 29:46
  and
• 29:47
  in
• 29:47
  human
• 29:48
  awareness,
• 29:48
  but
• 29:49
  everybody's
• 29:49
  a
• 29:49
  pro
• 29:50
  at
• 29:50
  reflective
• 29:50
  listening
• 29:51
  that
• 29:51
  I
• 29:51
  hang
• 29:52
  out
• 29:52
  with
• 29:52
  now.
• 29:53
  Upset
• 29:53
  Gabe
• 29:54
  if
• 29:54
  I'm
• 29:54
  giving
• 29:54
  him
• 29:55
  a
• 29:55
  correction?
• 29:57
  Yeah,
• 29:57
  I'm
• 29:57
  not
• 29:57
  sure.
• 29:58
  So
• 29:58
  you're
• 29:59
  saying
• 29:59
  I
• 29:59
  suck,
• 30:00
  right?
• 30:00
  Well,
• 30:01
  actually,
• 30:01
  yes.
• 30:02
  Great.
• 30:03
  Exactly.
• 30:04
  Just
• 30:04
  asking
• 30:05
  questions,
• 30:05
  inquiring,
• 30:06
  you
• 30:06
  know,
• 30:07
  just
• 30:07
  being
• 30:07
  curious
• 30:07
  and
• 30:08
  following
• 30:08
  up.
• 30:08
  And
• 30:08
  I
• 30:09
  teach
• 30:09
  people
• 30:09
  that
• 30:09
  when
• 30:09
  they're
• 30:10
  reflecting
• 30:11
  and
• 30:11
  they
• 30:11
  use
• 30:11
  a
• 30:11
  follow
• 30:11
  up
• 30:12
  question,
• 30:12
  the
• 30:13
  question
• 30:13
  should
• 30:13
  be
• 30:14
  just
• 30:14
  as
• 30:15
  listening
• 30:15
  is
• 30:16
  not
• 30:16
  to
• 30:17
  demonstrate
• 30:17
  that
• 30:18
  you
• 30:18
  understand,
• 30:19
  it's
• 30:19
  to
• 30:19
  give
• 30:20
  the
• 30:20
  experience
• 30:20
  to
• 30:21
  the
• 30:21
  speaker
• 30:22
  that
• 30:22
  they've
• 30:22
  been
• 30:22
  heard.
• 30:24
  That's
• 30:24
  a
• 30:24
  really
• 30:24
  different
• 30:25
  intention.
• 30:26
  The
• 30:26
  same
• 30:26
  thing
• 30:26
  with
• 30:27
  a
• 30:27
  question.
• 30:27
  The
• 30:27
  question
• 30:28
  is
• 30:28
  not
• 30:28
  to
• 30:28
  satisfy
• 30:29
  your
• 30:29
  curiosity.
• 30:31
  It's
• 30:31
  to
• 30:31
  give
• 30:31
  the
• 30:32
  speaker
• 30:32
  more
• 30:33
  opportunity
• 30:34
  to
• 30:34
  disclose
• 30:34
  their
• 30:35
  truth.
• 30:36
  You
• 30:36
  know,
• 30:36
  that's.
• 30:36
  Again,
• 30:37
  you're
• 30:37
  not
• 30:37
  setting
• 30:38
  up
• 30:38
  because
• 30:38
  you
• 30:38
  want
• 30:38
  to
• 30:38
  win
• 30:38
  the
• 30:38
  argument.
• 30:39
  No,
• 30:39
  not
• 30:40
  at
• 30:40
  all.
• 30:40
  That's
• 30:41
  not
• 30:41
  your
• 30:41
  agenda.
• 30:42
  Yeah,
• 30:42
  no,
• 30:43
  because
• 30:43
  we
• 30:43
  realize
• 30:44
  that
• 30:44
  more
• 30:45
  truth
• 30:45
  is
• 30:45
  better
• 30:46
  truths,
• 30:46
  and
• 30:46
  then
• 30:47
  we
• 30:47
  have
• 30:47
  to
• 30:47
  learn
• 30:47
  how
• 30:48
  to
• 30:48
  create
• 30:49
  the
• 30:49
  right
• 30:49
  kind
• 30:49
  of
• 30:49
  hierarchies.
• 30:50
  Ken
• 30:50
  speaks
• 30:51
  to
• 30:51
  this
• 30:51
  really
• 30:51
  well.
• 30:51
  You
• 30:52
  know,
• 30:52
  there's
• 30:53
  people
• 30:53
  get
• 30:54
  caught
• 30:54
  in
• 30:54
  a
• 30:54
  kind
• 30:54
  of
• 30:55
  relativism
• 30:55
  with
• 30:55
  moral
• 30:56
  perspectives
• 30:56
  and
• 30:57
  they
• 30:57
  can't
• 30:57
  quite
• 30:57
  decide.
• 30:58
  And
• 30:58
  then
• 30:58
  you
• 30:58
  learn
• 30:59
  how
• 30:59
  to
• 30:59
  create
• 30:59
  a
• 30:59
  hierarchy
• 31:00
  of
• 31:00
  perspectives
• 31:01
  and
• 31:01
  then
• 31:01
  you
• 31:01
  really
• 31:02
  know
• 31:02
  you're
• 31:03
  somewhere
• 31:03
  when
• 31:03
  you
• 31:03
  can
• 31:03
  take
• 31:04
  a
• 31:04
  perspective
• 31:04
  on
• 31:05
  your
• 31:05
  own
• 31:05
  perspective.
• 31:07
  That's
• 31:07
  where
• 31:07
  the
• 31:07
  gold
• 31:07
  is.
• 31:08
  So
• 31:08
  it's
• 31:08
  the
• 31:09
  evolution
• 31:09
  of
• 31:09
  consciousness
• 31:10
  and
• 31:10
  the
• 31:10
  attendant
• 31:11
  set
• 31:11
  of
• 31:11
  skills
• 31:11
  to
• 31:12
  support
• 31:12
  that.
• 31:13
  Yeah,
• 31:13
  beautiful.
• 31:14
  And
• 31:14
  it
• 31:15
  seems
• 31:15
  like
• 31:15
  in
• 31:16
  this
• 31:16
  book,
• 31:17
  maybe
• 31:17
  you
• 31:17
  could
• 31:18
  begin
• 31:18
  addressing
• 31:19
  this,
• 31:19
  Gabe,
• 31:20
  that
• 31:20
  you're
• 31:20
  really
• 31:20
  trying
• 31:21
  to
• 31:21
  write
• 31:21
  for
• 31:22
  a
• 31:22
  new
• 31:22
  generation,
• 31:23
  younger
• 31:23
  generations,
• 31:25
  and
• 31:25
  speak
• 31:26
  to
• 31:26
  them
• 31:26
  in
• 31:26
  a
• 31:26
  way
• 31:27
  which
• 31:27
  is
• 31:28
  really
• 31:28
  accessible.
• 31:29
  Yeah,
• 31:29
  I
• 31:30
  want
• 31:30
  to
• 31:30
  answer
• 31:30
  that
• 31:30
  and
• 31:30
  I
• 31:31
  want
• 31:31
  to
• 31:31
  link
• 31:31
  it
• 31:31
  to
• 31:31
  what
• 31:31
  we
• 31:31
  were
• 31:32
  just
• 31:32
  talking
• 31:32
  about
• 31:32
  before.
• 31:33
  The
• 31:33
  link
• 31:33
  to
• 31:34
  before
• 31:34
  is
• 31:34
  simply
• 31:35
  and
• 31:35
  speaking
• 31:36
  to
• 31:36
  a
• 31:36
  younger
• 31:36
  audience.
• 31:37
  I
• 31:37
  think,
• 31:38
  Dai,
• 31:38
  you
• 31:38
  said
• 31:38
  this
• 31:39
  to
• 31:39
  me,
• 31:39
  and
• 31:39
  this
• 31:40
  was
• 31:40
  after
• 31:40
  we
• 31:40
  had
• 31:40
  been
• 31:41
  in
• 31:41
  a
• 31:41
  relationship
• 31:41
  for
• 31:41
  a
• 31:41
  while
• 31:41
  as
• 31:42
  teacher
• 31:42
  and
• 31:42
  student,
• 31:43
  but
• 31:43
  it
• 31:43
  was
• 31:43
  simply
• 31:43
  as
• 31:44
  simple
• 31:44
  as
• 31:45
  if
• 31:45
  you
• 31:45
  see
• 31:46
  something
• 31:46
  in
• 31:46
  someone,
• 31:46
  a
• 31:47
  capacity
• 31:47
  that
• 31:47
  you
• 31:48
  admire
• 31:48
  for
• 31:48
  whatever
• 31:48
  reason,
• 31:49
  probably
• 31:49
  the
• 31:50
  best
• 31:50
  way
• 31:50
  of
• 31:50
  developing
• 31:50
  that
• 31:50
  in
• 31:51
  yourself
• 31:51
  is
• 31:51
  to
• 31:51
  hang
• 31:51
  out
• 31:51
  with
• 31:52
  that
• 31:52
  person.
• 31:52
  Guess
• 31:52
  who
• 31:52
  I
• 31:53
  learned
• 31:53
  that
• 31:53
  from?
• 31:53
  You
• 31:54
  learn
• 31:54
  that
• 31:54
  from
• 31:54
  Mr.
• 31:55
  Roger
• 31:55
  Walsh.
• 31:56
  There
• 31:56
  you
• 31:57
  go.
• 31:57
  Hey.
• 31:57
  I
• 31:58
  mean,
• 31:58
  it's
• 31:58
  a
• 31:58
  brilliant
• 31:59
  piece
• 31:59
  of
• 31:59
  advice.
• 32:00
  The
• 32:01
  way
• 32:01
  that.
• 32:02
  And
• 32:02
  I
• 32:02
  can
• 32:02
  feel
• 32:03
  it
• 32:03
  with
• 32:03
  my
• 32:03
  daughters
• 32:03
  now.
• 32:04
  They
• 32:04
  are
• 32:04
  so
• 32:04
  absorbent
• 32:05
  of
• 32:06
  everything
• 32:06
  that
• 32:07
  I
• 32:07
  am
• 32:07
  transmitting
• 32:08
  consciously
• 32:09
  and
• 32:09
  unconsciously.
• 32:09
  My
• 32:10
  three
• 32:10
  year
• 32:10
  old
• 32:10
  daughter,
• 32:11
  I
• 32:11
  picked
• 32:11
  her
• 32:11
  up
• 32:11
  and
• 32:11
  she
• 32:12
  tapped
• 32:12
  me
• 32:12
  on
• 32:12
  the
• 32:12
  back
• 32:13
  and
• 32:13
  it
• 32:13
  was.
• 32:13
  I
• 32:13
  sort
• 32:14
  of
• 32:14
  got
• 32:14
  the
• 32:14
  exact
• 32:14
  same
• 32:15
  rhythm
• 32:15
  that
• 32:15
  I
• 32:15
  tap
• 32:15
  her
• 32:16
  on
• 32:16
  the
• 32:16
  back.
• 32:16
  And
• 32:16
  so
• 32:16
  just
• 32:17
  our
• 32:17
  ability
• 32:18
  to
• 32:18
  receive
• 32:18
  one
• 32:19
  another
• 32:19
  and
• 32:19
  be
• 32:20
  shaped
• 32:20
  and
• 32:20
  formed
• 32:21
  by
• 32:21
  the
• 32:21
  other
• 32:22
  has
• 32:22
  been
• 32:23
  the
• 32:23
  best
• 32:23
  way
• 32:23
  I've
• 32:24
  been
• 32:24
  shaped
• 32:24
  by
• 32:24
  and
• 32:24
  have
• 32:25
  enjoyed
• 32:25
  being
• 32:25
  shaped.
• 32:26
  And
• 32:26
  I
• 32:27
  want
• 32:27
  to
• 32:27
  speak
• 32:27
  to
• 32:28
  your
• 32:28
  question
• 32:28
  now.
• 32:28
  And
• 32:29
  it's
• 32:29
  linked
• 32:29
  because
• 32:29
  I
• 32:30
  think
• 32:31
  at
• 32:31
  least
• 32:31
  amongst
• 32:31
  my
• 32:32
  generation
• 32:32
  there
• 32:33
  is
• 32:33
  a
• 32:33
  very
• 32:33
  strong
• 32:35
  and
• 32:35
  very
• 32:35
  valid
• 32:36
  awareness
• 32:36
  of
• 32:36
  power
• 32:37
  dynamics.
• 32:38
  And
• 32:39
  more
• 32:39
  than
• 32:39
  not
• 32:40
  a
• 32:40
  practice
• 32:40
  almost
• 32:41
  in
• 32:41
  critiquing
• 32:42
  those
• 32:42
  in
• 32:42
  power
• 32:43
  and
• 32:43
  those
• 32:43
  with
• 32:43
  authority,
• 32:44
  which
• 32:45
  I
• 32:45
  don't
• 32:45
  know
• 32:45
  if
• 32:45
  this
• 32:45
  is
• 32:45
  true.
• 32:46
  But
• 32:46
  just
• 32:46
  in
• 32:46
  my
• 32:46
  general
• 32:47
  intuition
• 32:47
  of
• 32:47
  those
• 32:48
  in
• 32:48
  my
• 32:48
  sphere
• 32:48
  that
• 32:49
  aren't
• 32:49
  in
• 32:49
  the
• 32:49
  Zen
• 32:50
  practice,
• 32:50
  they're
• 32:51
  interested
• 32:51
  in
• 32:51
  the
• 32:51
  practice
• 32:52
  vis
• 32:52
  a
• 32:53
  vis
• 32:53
  seeing
• 32:54
  how
• 32:54
  it's
• 32:54
  improved
• 32:55
  my
• 32:55
  life
• 32:55
  and
• 32:55
  how
• 32:56
  I'm
• 32:56
  showing
• 32:56
  up.
• 32:57
  But
• 32:57
  I
• 32:57
  also
• 32:58
  feel
• 32:58
  like
• 32:58
  there's
• 32:58
  a
• 32:58
  hesitancy
• 32:59
  because
• 33:00
  there's
• 33:01
  a
• 33:01
  sense
• 33:01
  that
• 33:02
  they
• 33:02
  don't
• 33:02
  know
• 33:02
  how
• 33:02
  to
• 33:03
  trust
• 33:03
  or
• 33:03
  relate
• 33:03
  to
• 33:04
  authority.
• 33:04
  So
• 33:04
  I
• 33:05
  think
• 33:05
  there's
• 33:05
  maybe
• 33:05
  a
• 33:05
  valuable
• 33:06
  conversation
• 33:06
  that
• 33:06
  we
• 33:06
  can
• 33:07
  have
• 33:07
  amongst
• 33:07
  us
• 33:07
  of
• 33:08
  just
• 33:08
  what
• 33:08
  makes
• 33:09
  a
• 33:09
  teacher
• 33:09
  student
• 33:10
  relationship
• 33:11
  healthy
• 33:11
  and
• 33:11
  one
• 33:12
  that
• 33:12
  when
• 33:12
  you're
• 33:13
  inside
• 33:13
  of
• 33:13
  it.
• 33:13
  What
• 33:14
  are
• 33:14
  some
• 33:14
  reference
• 33:15
  points
• 33:15
  you
• 33:15
  can
• 33:15
  hold
• 33:16
  internally
• 33:17
  that
• 33:17
  can
• 33:17
  give
• 33:18
  you
• 33:18
  the
• 33:18
  confidence
• 33:19
  or
• 33:19
  the
• 33:19
  wherewithal
• 33:20
  of
• 33:20
  like
• 33:20
  this
• 33:20
  is
• 33:21
  a
• 33:21
  healthy
• 33:22
  dynamic
• 33:22
  here
• 33:23
  and
• 33:23
  I
• 33:23
  can
• 33:24
  relax
• 33:24
  a
• 33:24
  little
• 33:25
  bit.
• 33:25
  And
• 33:25
  how
• 33:26
  can
• 33:26
  you
• 33:26
  build
• 33:26
  trust
• 33:26
  with
• 33:27
  your
• 33:27
  students
• 33:27
  and
• 33:28
  not
• 33:28
  betray
• 33:28
  that
• 33:28
  trust?
• 33:29
  You
• 33:30
  know,
• 33:30
  that's.
• 33:31
  Yeah.
• 33:32
  And
• 33:32
  I
• 33:32
  think
• 33:32
  it's
• 33:33
  complex.
• 33:33
  I
• 33:34
  mean
• 33:35
  die.
• 33:36
  You
• 33:36
  know
• 33:36
  the
• 33:36
  verse.
• 33:36
  But
• 33:36
  basically
• 33:37
  it's.
• 33:37
  I
• 33:37
  think
• 33:37
  it's
• 33:38
  you
• 33:38
  two.
• 33:38
  It's
• 33:38
  like
• 33:38
  we're
• 33:38
  gonna
• 33:39
  hurt
• 33:39
  each
• 33:39
  other
• 33:39
  and
• 33:39
  we're
• 33:40
  gonna
• 33:40
  practice
• 33:41
  being
• 33:42
  kind
• 33:42
  and.
• 33:42
  We're
• 33:42
  gonna
• 33:43
  do
• 33:43
  it
• 33:43
  again.
• 33:43
  I
• 33:44
  do
• 33:44
  it
• 33:44
  again.
• 33:44
  Like
• 33:45
  that's
• 33:46
  what
• 33:46
  I
• 33:46
  tell
• 33:46
  them.
• 33:47
  Yeah.
• 33:47
  Is
• 33:48
  I
• 33:48
  say,
• 33:48
  you
• 33:48
  wanna
• 33:49
  make
• 33:49
  sure
• 33:49
  that
• 33:49
  I'm
• 33:49
  not
• 33:49
  gonna
• 33:50
  hurt
• 33:50
  you.
• 33:50
  And
• 33:50
  what
• 33:50
  I
• 33:50
  can
• 33:51
  tell
• 33:51
  you
• 33:51
  is
• 33:51
  I
• 33:51
  am.
• 33:52
  And
• 33:52
  the
• 33:52
  other
• 33:52
  side
• 33:52
  of
• 33:53
  that
• 33:53
  is
• 33:53
  you're
• 33:53
  gonna
• 33:53
  hurt
• 33:53
  me
• 33:54
  too.
• 33:55
  And
• 33:55
  the
• 33:55
  question
• 33:55
  is,
• 33:56
  what
• 33:56
  do
• 33:56
  we
• 33:56
  do
• 33:56
  when
• 33:56
  we
• 33:56
  hurt
• 33:57
  each
• 33:57
  other?
• 33:57
  How
• 33:58
  do
• 33:58
  we
• 33:58
  respond?
• 33:58
  Because
• 33:59
  that's
• 33:59
  definitely
• 33:59
  gonna
• 34:00
  happen.
• 34:00
  Yeah.
• 34:01
  So
• 34:01
  I
• 34:02
  think
• 34:02
  I
• 34:02
  just
• 34:03
  wanna
• 34:03
  put
• 34:03
  that
• 34:03
  ink
• 34:03
  around
• 34:03
  the
• 34:04
  table.
• 34:04
  Cause
• 34:04
  I
• 34:04
  think
• 34:04
  it's
• 34:04
  tied
• 34:04
  to
• 34:05
  your
• 34:05
  question,
• 34:05
  Roger.
• 34:06
  It's
• 34:06
  like
• 34:06
  there's
• 34:07
  so
• 34:07
  much
• 34:08
  to
• 34:09
  offer
• 34:09
  a
• 34:10
  younger
• 34:10
  generation.
• 34:11
  And
• 34:11
  I
• 34:11
  feel
• 34:12
  that
• 34:12
  our
• 34:12
  generation
• 34:13
  has
• 34:14
  a
• 34:14
  lot
• 34:14
  of
• 34:14
  confusion
• 34:15
  or
• 34:15
  at
• 34:15
  least
• 34:16
  trepidation
• 34:17
  around
• 34:17
  giving
• 34:18
  their
• 34:18
  head
• 34:19
  to
• 34:20
  experiences
• 34:21
  that
• 34:21
  will
• 34:21
  challenge
• 34:22
  them
• 34:22
  and
• 34:22
  will
• 34:23
  push
• 34:23
  them
• 34:23
  out
• 34:23
  of
• 34:23
  their
• 34:24
  comfort
• 34:24
  zone.
• 34:24
  And
• 34:25
  how
• 34:25
  can
• 34:25
  I
• 34:25
  have
• 34:25
  the
• 34:25
  discernment
• 34:26
  when
• 34:26
  I'm
• 34:26
  out
• 34:26
  of
• 34:26
  my
• 34:26
  comfort
• 34:27
  zone
• 34:28
  if
• 34:28
  this
• 34:28
  is
• 34:28
  good
• 34:28
  for
• 34:28
  me
• 34:29
  or
• 34:29
  not?
• 34:29
  And
• 34:30
  so
• 34:30
  that
• 34:31
  inquiry,
• 34:31
  I
• 34:31
  think
• 34:31
  is
• 34:32
  a
• 34:32
  big
• 34:32
  stumbling
• 34:33
  block
• 34:33
  that
• 34:34
  I
• 34:34
  see
• 34:34
  that
• 34:34
  just
• 34:35
  even
• 34:35
  doesn't
• 34:35
  let
• 34:35
  people
• 34:36
  through
• 34:36
  the
• 34:36
  door.
• 34:36
  They
• 34:36
  don't
• 34:36
  let
• 34:37
  themselves
• 34:37
  through
• 34:37
  the
• 34:37
  door
• 34:38
  because
• 34:38
  they
• 34:38
  don't
• 34:38
  know
• 34:38
  how
• 34:38
  to
• 34:38
  make
• 34:39
  sense
• 34:39
  of
• 34:39
  it.
• 34:39
  So
• 34:40
  let
• 34:40
  me
• 34:40
  just
• 34:41
  pause
• 34:41
  there
• 34:41
  and
• 34:41
  see
• 34:42
  how
• 34:42
  that
• 34:42
  lands.
• 34:43
  We
• 34:43
  want
• 34:43
  to
• 34:43
  keep
• 34:43
  going.
• 34:44
  Let's
• 34:44
  see.
• 34:44
  Well,
• 34:44
  we
• 34:45
  could
• 34:45
  take
• 34:45
  it
• 34:45
  several
• 34:45
  places,
• 34:46
  but
• 34:46
  Diane,
• 34:46
  would
• 34:46
  you
• 34:46
  like
• 34:47
  to
• 34:47
  add.
• 34:47
  Yeah.
• 34:48
  I
• 34:48
  mean,
• 34:49
  for
• 34:49
  whatever
• 34:49
  reason,
• 34:50
  just
• 34:50
  in
• 34:50
  that
• 34:51
  moment
• 34:51
  when
• 34:51
  Gabe
• 34:52
  mentioned
• 34:52
  it,
• 34:52
  I
• 34:52
  read
• 34:53
  somebody
• 34:53
  sent
• 34:54
  me
• 34:54
  a
• 34:54
  text
• 34:54
  today
• 34:55
  and
• 34:55
  Joanna
• 34:56
  Macy
• 34:56
  passed.
• 34:57
  Did
• 34:57
  you
• 34:57
  hear
• 34:57
  that?
• 34:57
  A
• 34:57
  little
• 34:57
  better.
• 34:58
  I
• 34:58
  hadn't
• 34:59
  heard
• 34:59
  that.
• 34:59
  And
• 35:00
  she's.
• 35:00
  Yeah,
• 35:00
  she's
• 35:01
  96
• 35:01
  years
• 35:01
  old
• 35:02
  and
• 35:03
  she
• 35:03
  was
• 35:04
  a
• 35:04
  tremendous
• 35:05
  exemplar
• 35:07
  of
• 35:07
  both
• 35:07
  Buddhist
• 35:08
  practice
• 35:08
  and
• 35:09
  putting
• 35:09
  your
• 35:09
  money
• 35:09
  mitt
• 35:10
  where
• 35:10
  your
• 35:10
  mouth
• 35:10
  is
• 35:10
  and
• 35:12
  showing
• 35:12
  up
• 35:12
  for
• 35:12
  the
• 35:13
  earth
• 35:13
  and
• 35:13
  grieving
• 35:14
  if
• 35:14
  you
• 35:14
  need
• 35:15
  to
• 35:15
  grieve
• 35:15
  and
• 35:15
  finding
• 35:16
  ways
• 35:16
  to.
• 35:16
  I
• 35:17
  mean,
• 35:17
  she
• 35:17
  was
• 35:17
  just
• 35:17
  amazing.
• 35:19
  And
• 35:19
  so
• 35:20
  I
• 35:20
  think
• 35:20
  in
• 35:20
  relationship
• 35:21
  to
• 35:21
  what
• 35:21
  Gabe
• 35:21
  was
• 35:21
  just
• 35:22
  saying,
• 35:22
  you
• 35:23
  know,
• 35:23
  I
• 35:23
  would
• 35:23
  ask
• 35:24
  young
• 35:24
  people
• 35:24
  to
• 35:25
  really
• 35:25
  pay
• 35:25
  attention,
• 35:26
  to
• 35:27
  really
• 35:27
  observe
• 35:28
  and
• 35:28
  pay
• 35:28
  attention
• 35:28
  to
• 35:29
  what
• 35:29
  you
• 35:29
  see
• 35:30
  in
• 35:31
  a
• 35:31
  teacher
• 35:32
  and
• 35:32
  how
• 35:32
  they're
• 35:32
  behaving
• 35:33
  and
• 35:33
  how
• 35:34
  people
• 35:34
  are
• 35:34
  responding
• 35:34
  to
• 35:35
  them.
• 35:35
  And
• 35:35
  then
• 35:35
  also
• 35:35
  look
• 35:36
  at
• 35:36
  the
• 35:36
  other
• 35:36
  people
• 35:36
  in
• 35:37
  the
• 35:37
  sangha
• 35:37
  and
• 35:37
  the
• 35:37
  other
• 35:37
  students,
• 35:38
  what
• 35:38
  are
• 35:38
  they
• 35:38
  like,
• 35:39
  what
• 35:39
  are
• 35:39
  you
• 35:40
  noticing?
• 35:41
  And
• 35:41
  you
• 35:41
  know,
• 35:41
  you
• 35:42
  can
• 35:42
  expect
• 35:42
  to
• 35:42
  be
• 35:42
  challenged
• 35:43
  and
• 35:44
  hopefully
• 35:44
  your
• 35:44
  teacher
• 35:44
  can
• 35:45
  give
• 35:45
  you
• 35:45
  some
• 35:45
  instruction
• 35:46
  on
• 35:46
  how
• 35:46
  to
• 35:46
  deal
• 35:46
  with
• 35:46
  it.
• 35:47
  Because
• 35:47
  we
• 35:47
  all
• 35:47
  know
• 35:48
  from
• 35:48
  all
• 35:48
  the
• 35:49
  work
• 35:49
  we
• 35:49
  do
• 35:50
  that
• 35:50
  there's
• 35:51
  that,
• 35:51
  what
• 35:51
  do
• 35:52
  we
• 35:52
  call
• 35:52
  it,
• 35:52
  optimal
• 35:54
  discomfort.
• 35:55
  Right.
• 35:56
  Where
• 35:56
  it's
• 35:56
  enough
• 35:56
  discomfort
• 35:57
  that
• 35:57
  you're
• 35:57
  jarred
• 35:58
  out
• 35:58
  of
• 35:58
  your
• 35:58
  habit,
• 35:59
  but
• 35:59
  it's
• 36:00
  not
• 36:00
  so
• 36:00
  much
• 36:00
  that
• 36:00
  you're
• 36:01
  collapsing
• 36:01
  and
• 36:01
  clinging
• 36:02
  back
• 36:02
  into
• 36:02
  it.
• 36:03
  Right.
• 36:04
  So
• 36:04
  it
• 36:04
  has
• 36:04
  to
• 36:05
  be
• 36:05
  enough
• 36:05
  challenge
• 36:06
  that
• 36:06
  you
• 36:06
  can
• 36:07
  be
• 36:07
  destabilized
• 36:08
  and
• 36:08
  you
• 36:08
  can
• 36:08
  experience
• 36:09
  the
• 36:09
  resilience
• 36:10
  of
• 36:12
  the
• 36:12
  self
• 36:12
  identity.
• 36:14
  But
• 36:14
  you
• 36:14
  can
• 36:14
  also
• 36:14
  build
• 36:14
  a
• 36:15
  little
• 36:15
  bit
• 36:15
  of
• 36:15
  what
• 36:15
  we
• 36:16
  might
• 36:16
  call
• 36:16
  anti
• 36:16
  fragility
• 36:17
  where
• 36:17
  you
• 36:17
  get
• 36:17
  bigger
• 36:18
  than
• 36:18
  that
• 36:19
  experience,
• 36:19
  you
• 36:20
  know,
• 36:20
  where
• 36:20
  you're
• 36:20
  able
• 36:21
  to
• 36:21
  start
• 36:21
  to
• 36:21
  realize,
• 36:21
  oh,
• 36:22
  I
• 36:22
  can
• 36:22
  turn
• 36:22
  towards
• 36:23
  that
• 36:23
  like
• 36:23
  steering
• 36:23
  into
• 36:24
  a
• 36:24
  curve
• 36:25
  and
• 36:25
  get
• 36:25
  really
• 36:25
  curious
• 36:26
  about
• 36:26
  the
• 36:26
  ways
• 36:26
  in
• 36:27
  which
• 36:27
  my
• 36:28
  self
• 36:28
  identity
• 36:28
  is
• 36:28
  being
• 36:29
  disrupted
• 36:29
  and
• 36:29
  then
• 36:30
  notice
• 36:30
  what
• 36:30
  happens
• 36:30
  when
• 36:31
  I'm
• 36:31
  able
• 36:31
  to
• 36:31
  actually
• 36:32
  allow
• 36:32
  that
• 36:32
  to
• 36:33
  be
• 36:33
  metabolized.
• 36:34
  And
• 36:35
  then
• 36:35
  you
• 36:35
  have
• 36:35
  friends
• 36:36
  who
• 36:36
  are
• 36:36
  doing
• 36:36
  the
• 36:36
  same
• 36:36
  thing.
• 36:37
  It's
• 36:37
  incredible
• 36:38
  that
• 36:38
  we
• 36:38
  have
• 36:38
  this
• 36:38
  opportunity
• 36:40
  that
• 36:40
  we
• 36:40
  have
• 36:40
  the
• 36:41
  Opportunity
• 36:41
  to
• 36:41
  grow
• 36:42
  in
• 36:42
  the
• 36:42
  way
• 36:42
  that
• 36:42
  we've
• 36:42
  been
• 36:43
  taught
• 36:43
  and
• 36:43
  that
• 36:43
  not
• 36:43
  only
• 36:44
  we
• 36:44
  receive
• 36:44
  the
• 36:44
  spiritual
• 36:45
  teachings,
• 36:46
  but
• 36:46
  we've
• 36:46
  got
• 36:46
  psychology
• 36:48
  and
• 36:48
  we've
• 36:48
  got
• 36:49
  human
• 36:49
  relations
• 36:50
  and
• 36:50
  we've
• 36:50
  got
• 36:51
  systems
• 36:51
  theory.
• 36:51
  We
• 36:52
  have
• 36:52
  all
• 36:52
  this
• 36:52
  beautiful
• 36:54
  teaching
• 36:54
  that
• 36:54
  can
• 36:54
  support
• 36:55
  us
• 36:55
  and
• 36:55
  we
• 36:55
  have
• 36:55
  to
• 36:56
  find
• 36:56
  our
• 36:56
  way
• 36:56
  through
• 36:56
  it.
• 36:57
  But
• 36:57
  it's
• 36:57
  a
• 36:57
  shame,
• 36:58
  I,
• 36:58
  you
• 36:58
  know,
• 36:58
  I
• 36:58
  have,
• 36:59
  you
• 36:59
  know,
• 36:59
  a
• 36:59
  little
• 36:59
  disagreement
• 37:00
  with
• 37:00
  Sam
• 37:00
  Harris
• 37:01
  because
• 37:01
  Sam
• 37:02
  Harris
• 37:02
  tends
• 37:02
  to
• 37:03
  be
• 37:03
  anti
• 37:03
  religion
• 37:04
  because
• 37:05
  of
• 37:05
  all
• 37:05
  the,
• 37:06
  the
• 37:06
  shadow
• 37:07
  of
• 37:07
  the
• 37:08
  stuff.
• 37:08
  Yeah,
• 37:09
  yeah,
• 37:09
  yeah.
• 37:10
  But
• 37:10
  to
• 37:10
  only
• 37:11
  look
• 37:11
  at
• 37:11
  the
• 37:11
  shadow
• 37:11
  of
• 37:12
  religious
• 37:12
  practice
• 37:13
  and
• 37:13
  not
• 37:13
  to
• 37:13
  look
• 37:13
  at
• 37:14
  the
• 37:14
  virtues
• 37:15
  and
• 37:15
  what
• 37:15
  it's
• 37:15
  offered
• 37:16
  to
• 37:16
  so
• 37:16
  many
• 37:16
  good
• 37:17
  hearted
• 37:17
  people
• 37:18
  and
• 37:18
  how
• 37:18
  the
• 37:19
  traditions
• 37:19
  have
• 37:19
  been
• 37:19
  maintained
• 37:20
  and
• 37:20
  what
• 37:20
  has
• 37:20
  been
• 37:21
  of
• 37:21
  value
• 37:21
  because
• 37:21
  everything
• 37:22
  has
• 37:22
  shadow.
• 37:23
  There's
• 37:23
  a
• 37:23
  high
• 37:24
  vision
• 37:24
  for
• 37:24
  everything.
• 37:24
  And
• 37:25
  then
• 37:25
  there's
• 37:25
  also
• 37:26
  the
• 37:26
  ways
• 37:26
  it
• 37:26
  gets
• 37:26
  corrupted.
• 37:27
  So,
• 37:28
  you
• 37:28
  know,
• 37:28
  I'm
• 37:28
  a
• 37:29
  real
• 37:29
  believer
• 37:29
  that
• 37:29
  to
• 37:30
  toss
• 37:30
  out
• 37:30
  the
• 37:31
  great
• 37:32
  traditions
• 37:33
  is
• 37:33
  just
• 37:33
  one
• 37:33
  of
• 37:34
  the
• 37:34
  most
• 37:34
  enormous
• 37:34
  mistakes
• 37:35
  we
• 37:35
  could
• 37:35
  make.
• 37:35
  There's
• 37:36
  so
• 37:36
  much
• 37:37
  that
• 37:37
  has
• 37:38
  been
• 37:38
  accrued
• 37:38
  in
• 37:39
  terms
• 37:39
  of
• 37:39
  study,
• 37:40
  practice,
• 37:40
  sacred
• 37:41
  texts,
• 37:42
  you
• 37:42
  know,
• 37:42
  So
• 37:43
  I
• 37:43
  want
• 37:43
  to
• 37:43
  encourage
• 37:44
  people
• 37:44
  to
• 37:44
  be
• 37:44
  rigorous
• 37:46
  and
• 37:46
  to
• 37:46
  be
• 37:47
  challenging,
• 37:48
  but
• 37:48
  to
• 37:48
  also
• 37:48
  understand
• 37:49
  that
• 37:49
  you
• 37:49
  can't
• 37:50
  learn
• 37:50
  anything
• 37:51
  unless
• 37:51
  you're
• 37:51
  around
• 37:51
  someone
• 37:52
  who
• 37:52
  has
• 37:53
  gone
• 37:53
  before
• 37:53
  you,
• 37:54
  unless
• 37:55
  you're
• 37:55
  just
• 37:55
  a
• 37:55
  born
• 37:55
  genius.
• 37:56
  You
• 37:56
  know,
• 37:57
  then
• 37:57
  you,
• 37:57
  you
• 37:57
  know,
• 37:57
  then
• 37:57
  that
• 37:58
  might
• 37:58
  be
• 37:58
  the
• 37:58
  case,
• 37:58
  that
• 37:58
  you
• 37:59
  can
• 37:59
  do
• 37:59
  that,
• 37:59
  but
• 38:00
  most
• 38:00
  of
• 38:00
  us
• 38:00
  can.
• 38:01
  Might
• 38:01
  be
• 38:01
  the
• 38:02
  case,
• 38:02
  yes.
• 38:03
  Might
• 38:03
  be.
• 38:03
  Can
• 38:04
  I
• 38:04
  have
• 38:04
  one
• 38:04
  thing
• 38:04
  and
• 38:04
  then
• 38:05
  I
• 38:05
  want
• 38:05
  to
• 38:05
  speak
• 38:05
  to
• 38:05
  your
• 38:05
  question.
• 38:06
  Yeah,
• 38:06
  sorry.
• 38:07
  Good.
• 38:07
  I
• 38:07
  want
• 38:07
  to
• 38:07
  leave
• 38:07
  it
• 38:07
  in
• 38:08
  the
• 38:08
  lurch.
• 38:08
  I
• 38:08
  mean,
• 38:09
  so
• 38:09
  just
• 38:09
  to
• 38:09
  pick
• 38:09
  up
• 38:10
  one
• 38:10
  positive
• 38:11
  dimension,
• 38:12
  tremendously
• 38:13
  positive
• 38:13
  dimension
• 38:13
  that
• 38:13
  I
• 38:13
  value
• 38:14
  in
• 38:14
  my
• 38:14
  relationship
• 38:14
  with
• 38:14
  Diane
• 38:15
  is
• 38:16
  the
• 38:16
  constant.
• 38:17
  And
• 38:17
  this
• 38:18
  is
• 38:18
  ingrained
• 38:19
  in
• 38:19
  Zen
• 38:19
  as
• 38:20
  well.
• 38:20
  It's
• 38:20
  the
• 38:20
  constant
• 38:21
  pointing
• 38:21
  back
• 38:21
  to
• 38:22
  my
• 38:22
  own
• 38:22
  experience.
• 38:22
  Like,
• 38:22
  is
• 38:22
  it
• 38:23
  true
• 38:23
  for
• 38:23
  me,
• 38:23
  like
• 38:24
  don't
• 38:24
  take
• 38:24
  anything
• 38:25
  I.
• 38:25
  Diane,
• 38:26
  I'm
• 38:26
  saying
• 38:26
  at
• 38:27
  face
• 38:27
  value,
• 38:27
  like
• 38:28
  go
• 38:28
  explore
• 38:28
  for
• 38:28
  it
• 38:29
  with
• 38:29
  yourself
• 38:30
  on
• 38:30
  the
• 38:30
  cushion
• 38:31
  in
• 38:31
  your
• 38:31
  life
• 38:31
  and
• 38:31
  if
• 38:31
  it
• 38:31
  works,
• 38:32
  awesome.
• 38:32
  And
• 38:33
  if
• 38:33
  it
• 38:33
  doesn't,
• 38:33
  dude,
• 38:34
  move
• 38:34
  on
• 38:34
  something
• 38:34
  else.
• 38:35
  Right?
• 38:36
  Like
• 38:36
  that,
• 38:36
  that's
• 38:37
  always
• 38:37
  present.
• 38:37
  And
• 38:38
  so
• 38:38
  I'm
• 38:39
  not.
• 38:39
  And
• 38:40
  whenever
• 38:40
  I
• 38:40
  have
• 38:40
  given
• 38:41
  my
• 38:41
  own
• 38:41
  authority
• 38:42
  back
• 38:42
  to
• 38:42
  Dice,
• 38:42
  she
• 38:43
  hands
• 38:43
  it
• 38:43
  back
• 38:43
  to
• 38:43
  me.
• 38:44
  So
• 38:45
  that
• 38:45
  just
• 38:45
  even
• 38:46
  that
• 38:46
  dynamic
• 38:47
  I
• 38:47
  find
• 38:48
  deeply
• 38:48
  ennobling
• 38:49
  and
• 38:49
  trustworthy.
• 38:51
  So
• 38:51
  if
• 38:51
  we
• 38:51
  can
• 38:52
  find
• 38:52
  someone
• 38:53
  that
• 38:53
  can
• 38:54
  shepherd
• 38:54
  your
• 38:55
  development,
• 38:55
  that's
• 38:56
  for
• 38:57
  me.
• 38:57
  The
• 38:57
  catalyst
• 38:58
  at
• 38:58
  least
• 38:58
  has
• 38:58
  been
• 38:59
  for
• 38:59
  me.
• 38:59
  Roger,
• 39:00
  to
• 39:00
  your
• 39:00
  question,
• 39:00
  what
• 39:00
  do
• 39:00
  I
• 39:01
  think
• 39:01
  young
• 39:01
  people
• 39:01
  have
• 39:02
  to
• 39:02
  gain
• 39:03
  from,
• 39:04
  let's
• 39:04
  say
• 39:04
  a
• 39:04
  spiritual
• 39:04
  tradition
• 39:05
  and
• 39:06
  Zen
• 39:06
  as
• 39:06
  an
• 39:06
  example
• 39:07
  of
• 39:07
  that.
• 39:08
  Zen
• 39:08
  is
• 39:08
  very
• 39:09
  rigorous.
• 39:10
  And
• 39:10
  also
• 39:10
  I'm
• 39:10
  Going
• 39:10
  to
• 39:10
  add
• 39:11
  the
• 39:11
  growing
• 39:11
  up
• 39:11
  side
• 39:11
  of
• 39:11
  the
• 39:11
  street
• 39:12
  too.
• 39:12
  Conflict
• 39:13
  mediation,
• 39:13
  also
• 39:14
  a
• 39:14
  very
• 39:14
  rigorous
• 39:15
  path
• 39:15
  of
• 39:16
  practice.
• 39:17
  There
• 39:17
  is,
• 39:18
  if
• 39:18
  I
• 39:18
  were
• 39:18
  to
• 39:18
  distill
• 39:19
  it,
• 39:19
  there's
• 39:19
  just
• 39:20
  an
• 39:20
  increased
• 39:21
  capacity
• 39:21
  for
• 39:21
  me
• 39:22
  to
• 39:22
  deal
• 39:22
  with
• 39:22
  intensity
• 39:23
  in
• 39:23
  different
• 39:23
  forms
• 39:24
  and
• 39:25
  to
• 39:25
  be
• 39:25
  present
• 39:27
  wholeheartedly
• 39:28
  with
• 39:28
  that
• 39:28
  intensity.
• 39:30
  So
• 39:30
  that's
• 39:30
  number
• 39:30
  one.
• 39:31
  And
• 39:31
  if
• 39:31
  anyone's
• 39:32
  feeling
• 39:32
  anything
• 39:33
  at
• 39:33
  the
• 39:33
  moment,
• 39:33
  it's
• 39:34
  very
• 39:34
  intense
• 39:34
  right
• 39:34
  now.
• 39:35
  It's
• 39:35
  just
• 39:35
  very
• 39:36
  intense.
• 39:36
  Day
• 39:37
  in
• 39:37
  weekly
• 39:38
  monthly.
• 39:38
  This
• 39:39
  planet's
• 39:39
  going
• 39:39
  through
• 39:39
  some
• 39:40
  things,
• 39:40
  we're
• 39:40
  going
• 39:40
  through
• 39:40
  things.
• 39:41
  So
• 39:42
  just
• 39:42
  the
• 39:42
  ability
• 39:42
  to
• 39:43
  put
• 39:43
  yourself
• 39:43
  in
• 39:43
  a
• 39:44
  container
• 39:45
  and
• 39:45
  the
• 39:45
  conflict
• 39:46
  training
• 39:46
  is
• 39:46
  a
• 39:46
  really
• 39:47
  good
• 39:47
  example
• 39:47
  of
• 39:47
  this.
• 39:48
  Very
• 39:48
  rarely
• 39:49
  when
• 39:49
  I
• 39:49
  go
• 39:50
  out
• 39:50
  into
• 39:50
  the
• 39:50
  world
• 39:50
  of
• 39:51
  work
• 39:51
  do
• 39:51
  I
• 39:51
  encounter
• 39:52
  more
• 39:52
  intensity
• 39:53
  than
• 39:54
  I
• 39:54
  encountered
• 39:54
  in
• 39:54
  the
• 39:54
  training
• 39:55
  with
• 39:55
  Daisy.
• 39:56
  So
• 39:57
  there's.
• 39:57
  My
• 39:58
  capacity
• 39:59
  for
• 39:59
  that
• 39:59
  has
• 39:59
  increased
• 40:00
  and
• 40:00
  my
• 40:00
  baseline
• 40:01
  is
• 40:01
  just
• 40:01
  different
• 40:01
  from
• 40:02
  being
• 40:02
  in
• 40:02
  training
• 40:03
  contexts
• 40:03
  where
• 40:04
  that's
• 40:04
  just
• 40:04
  been
• 40:04
  expanded.
• 40:05
  And
• 40:06
  so
• 40:06
  that's
• 40:06
  number
• 40:06
  one
• 40:07
  as
• 40:07
  it
• 40:07
  pertains
• 40:08
  to
• 40:08
  Zen
• 40:08
  and
• 40:08
  also
• 40:08
  the
• 40:09
  conflict
• 40:09
  work.
• 40:10
  My
• 40:10
  ability
• 40:10
  to
• 40:10
  stay
• 40:11
  connected
• 40:11
  to
• 40:11
  myself
• 40:11
  and
• 40:12
  connect
• 40:12
  it
• 40:12
  to
• 40:12
  others
• 40:13
  in
• 40:13
  the
• 40:13
  midst
• 40:14
  of
• 40:14
  intensity
• 40:14
  or
• 40:14
  not
• 40:15
  is
• 40:15
  also
• 40:15
  sharpened.
• 40:16
  Right.
• 40:17
  So
• 40:17
  whether
• 40:17
  I'm
• 40:17
  in
• 40:18
  organizations,
• 40:19
  basically
• 40:20
  organizations
• 40:21
  are
• 40:21
  just
• 40:21
  a
• 40:21
  collective
• 40:21
  of
• 40:22
  people
• 40:22
  sharing
• 40:22
  ideas
• 40:23
  and
• 40:23
  emotions
• 40:23
  with
• 40:23
  each
• 40:24
  other
• 40:24
  from
• 40:24
  some
• 40:24
  basic
• 40:25
  level.
• 40:26
  And
• 40:26
  I've
• 40:27
  been
• 40:27
  in
• 40:27
  a
• 40:27
  practice
• 40:28
  containment
• 40:28
  with
• 40:28
  dye
• 40:29
  where
• 40:29
  like
• 40:29
  that's
• 40:29
  what
• 40:29
  we
• 40:29
  navigate
• 40:30
  all
• 40:30
  the
• 40:30
  time
• 40:31
  in
• 40:31
  intensity
• 40:31
  and
• 40:32
  coolness
• 40:32
  and
• 40:32
  calmness
• 40:33
  and
• 40:33
  ecstasy,
• 40:34
  like
• 40:34
  whatever
• 40:34
  it
• 40:35
  is.
• 40:35
  And
• 40:36
  so
• 40:37
  the
• 40:37
  third
• 40:38
  one
• 40:38
  I
• 40:38
  would
• 40:38
  say
• 40:39
  is,
• 40:40
  and
• 40:40
  you
• 40:40
  know,
• 40:40
  this
• 40:41
  is
• 40:41
  like
• 40:41
  retreat
• 40:41
  life.
• 40:42
  There's
• 40:42
  always
• 40:42
  something
• 40:42
  like,
• 40:43
  Gabe,
• 40:43
  the
• 40:43
  pipe
• 40:44
  broke.
• 40:45
  You
• 40:45
  know,
• 40:45
  like,
• 40:46
  and
• 40:46
  we
• 40:46
  have
• 40:46
  a
• 40:47
  sick
• 40:47
  coming
• 40:47
  up.
• 40:48
  So
• 40:48
  just
• 40:48
  the
• 40:49
  ability
• 40:49
  to
• 40:50
  address
• 40:50
  what's
• 40:50
  happening,
• 40:51
  the
• 40:51
  challenges.
• 40:52
  There's
• 40:53
  lice
• 40:53
  in
• 40:53
  the
• 40:53
  kids
• 40:53
  hair.
• 40:54
  There's
• 40:54
  lice
• 40:54
  in
• 40:55
  the
• 40:55
  kids
• 40:55
  hair.
• 40:55
  I
• 40:55
  always
• 40:56
  loved
• 40:56
  that
• 40:56
  one.
• 40:56
  Kids
• 40:57
  had
• 40:57
  lies.
• 40:58
  Oh,
• 40:58
  wow.
• 41:00
  You
• 41:01
  know,
• 41:01
  just.
• 41:02
  Thanks
• 41:02
  for
• 41:02
  sharing.
• 41:02
  All
• 41:03
  right.
• 41:03
  Absolutely.
• 41:04
  Just
• 41:04
  so
• 41:04
  you
• 41:04
  know,
• 41:05
  the
• 41:05
  practice
• 41:05
  of
• 41:06
  just
• 41:06
  dealing
• 41:06
  with
• 41:06
  the
• 41:07
  challenge
• 41:07
  in
• 41:07
  the
• 41:07
  moment
• 41:08
  and
• 41:09
  just
• 41:09
  dropping
• 41:09
  whatever.
• 41:10
  Oh,
• 41:11
  but
• 41:11
  I'm
• 41:11
  going
• 41:11
  to
• 41:11
  miss
• 41:11
  my
• 41:11
  sit.
• 41:12
  No,
• 41:13
  fix
• 41:13
  the
• 41:14
  piper.
• 41:14
  Go
• 41:14
  get
• 41:15
  the
• 41:15
  shampoo
• 41:15
  for
• 41:15
  the
• 41:15
  lice.
• 41:16
  You
• 41:16
  know,
• 41:16
  it's
• 41:17
  all
• 41:17
  one
• 41:17
  contiguous
• 41:18
  thing.
• 41:18
  So
• 41:19
  I
• 41:19
  just
• 41:19
  wanted
• 41:19
  to
• 41:19
  share
• 41:20
  that
• 41:20
  the.
• 41:21
  And
• 41:21
  the
• 41:21
  genius
• 41:22
  of
• 41:22
  a
• 41:22
  tradition
• 41:23
  is
• 41:23
  that
• 41:23
  it's
• 41:23
  just
• 41:23
  well
• 41:24
  groomed
• 41:24
  path.
• 41:25
  There's
• 41:26
  a
• 41:26
  very
• 41:26
  clear,
• 41:27
  powerful,
• 41:28
  time
• 41:29
  tested
• 41:30
  container
• 41:31
  that
• 41:32
  delivers
• 41:32
  you
• 41:32
  intensity,
• 41:34
  practices
• 41:34
  or
• 41:35
  invites
• 41:35
  you
• 41:35
  to
• 41:35
  practice
• 41:36
  connection
• 41:36
  with
• 41:36
  yourself
• 41:36
  and
• 41:37
  others
• 41:37
  and
• 41:37
  invites
• 41:38
  you
• 41:38
  to
• 41:38
  deal
• 41:38
  with
• 41:39
  things
• 41:39
  as
• 41:39
  they
• 41:39
  emerge.
• 41:40
  Like,
• 41:40
  we're
• 41:40
  not
• 41:41
  escaping
• 41:42
  the
• 41:42
  pipe
• 41:42
  by
• 41:42
  going
• 41:43
  to
• 41:43
  meditate.
• 41:43
  Like
• 41:43
  we're
• 41:44
  here
• 41:44
  fully.
• 41:45
  Like,
• 41:45
  if
• 41:46
  meditation
• 41:46
  isn't
• 41:47
  helping
• 41:47
  you
• 41:47
  to
• 41:47
  be
• 41:47
  present
• 41:47
  with
• 41:48
  the
• 41:48
  rest
• 41:48
  of
• 41:48
  it,
• 41:48
  then
• 41:48
  what's
• 41:48
  the
• 41:49
  point?
• 41:49
  So
• 41:49
  I
• 41:50
  feel
• 41:50
  like
• 41:50
  those
• 41:50
  three
• 41:50
  things,
• 41:52
  and
• 41:52
  maybe
• 41:52
  the
• 41:53
  last
• 41:53
  one
• 41:53
  is,
• 41:53
  like,
• 41:54
  feeling,
• 41:56
  and
• 41:56
  this
• 41:56
  is
• 41:57
  tied
• 41:57
  to,
• 41:57
  like,
• 41:58
  the
• 41:58
  recognition
• 41:59
  and
• 41:59
  the
• 41:59
  manifestation
• 42:00
  of
• 42:00
  that.
• 42:01
  What
• 42:01
  does
• 42:01
  it
• 42:01
  mean
• 42:01
  to
• 42:01
  be
• 42:02
  aligned
• 42:02
  with
• 42:04
  our
• 42:04
  perceptions
• 42:05
  of
• 42:05
  what's
• 42:06
  true?
• 42:07
  So
• 42:07
  I
• 42:07
  feel
• 42:08
  like
• 42:08
  there's
• 42:08
  just
• 42:09
  a
• 42:09
  really
• 42:09
  awesome
• 42:10
  curriculum
• 42:11
  within
• 42:11
  this
• 42:12
  tradition,
• 42:12
  and
• 42:12
  I
• 42:12
  would
• 42:13
  imagine
• 42:13
  others
• 42:13
  that
• 42:14
  are
• 42:14
  inviting
• 42:14
  you
• 42:15
  into
• 42:15
  intensity,
• 42:15
  connection
• 42:16
  to
• 42:16
  self
• 42:16
  and
• 42:16
  other,
• 42:17
  dealing
• 42:17
  with
• 42:17
  things
• 42:17
  as
• 42:18
  they
• 42:18
  come,
• 42:18
  and
• 42:18
  then
• 42:19
  just
• 42:19
  being
• 42:19
  aligned
• 42:20
  with
• 42:20
  your
• 42:20
  deepest
• 42:20
  sense
• 42:21
  of
• 42:21
  what's
• 42:21
  true
• 42:21
  and
• 42:22
  how
• 42:22
  to
• 42:22
  express
• 42:22
  that.
• 42:23
  Like,
• 42:24
  who
• 42:24
  wouldn't
• 42:24
  want
• 42:25
  that?
• 42:27
  So
• 42:27
  just
• 42:28
  to
• 42:28
  answer
• 42:28
  your
• 42:28
  question,
• 42:28
  Roger.
• 42:29
  Yeah.
• 42:30
  Thank
• 42:30
  you.
• 42:30
  And
• 42:31
  since
• 42:31
  we
• 42:32
  are
• 42:32
  addressing
• 42:32
  the
• 42:33
  topic
• 42:33
  of
• 42:34
  how
• 42:34
  to
• 42:34
  deal
• 42:34
  with
• 42:35
  challenging
• 42:35
  situations
• 42:36
  and
• 42:36
  challenges
• 42:37
  in
• 42:37
  general,
• 42:39
  unfortunately,
• 42:39
  easy
• 42:40
  segue
• 42:41
  into
• 42:43
  how
• 42:43
  to
• 42:44
  respond
• 42:45
  most
• 42:45
  skillfully
• 42:47
  to
• 42:47
  our
• 42:47
  contemporary
• 42:48
  times
• 42:49
  and
• 42:49
  particularly
• 42:49
  our
• 42:50
  current
• 42:51
  cultural
• 42:52
  and
• 42:52
  political
• 42:53
  polarization
• 42:54
  and
• 42:54
  animosity
• 42:55
  and
• 42:55
  extremism,
• 42:56
  it
• 42:57
  feels
• 42:57
  like
• 42:57
  this
• 42:57
  is
• 42:57
  one
• 42:57
  of
• 42:58
  the
• 42:58
  great
• 42:58
  ginjo
• 42:58
  koans
• 42:59
  of
• 42:59
  our
• 42:59
  time.
• 42:59
  How
• 43:00
  do
• 43:00
  we
• 43:00
  respond
• 43:00
  skillfully
• 43:01
  to
• 43:01
  our
• 43:02
  current
• 43:03
  cultural
• 43:03
  and
• 43:04
  political
• 43:04
  times
• 43:05
  in
• 43:05
  ways
• 43:06
  which
• 43:06
  truly
• 43:07
  are
• 43:07
  skillful,
• 43:08
  which
• 43:09
  address
• 43:09
  the
• 43:10
  deeper
• 43:10
  underlying
• 43:11
  psychological
• 43:12
  and
• 43:12
  spiritual
• 43:13
  dynamics?
• 43:14
  Don't
• 43:15
  just
• 43:15
  butt
• 43:16
  heads
• 43:16
  and
• 43:16
  confront
• 43:17
  people,
• 43:17
  but
• 43:18
  actually
• 43:18
  help
• 43:19
  and
• 43:19
  heal?
• 43:20
  No
• 43:21
  small
• 43:21
  questions.
• 43:22
  I
• 43:22
  wrote
• 43:23
  a
• 43:23
  koan
• 43:23
  the
• 43:23
  day
• 43:24
  before
• 43:24
  yesterday,
• 43:24
  I
• 43:24
  think
• 43:25
  it
• 43:25
  was.
• 43:25
  Did
• 43:25
  you?
• 43:25
  Yeah,
• 43:26
  yeah.
• 43:26
  Kind
• 43:26
  of.
• 43:27
  About
• 43:27
  this
• 43:27
  thing.
• 43:28
  And
• 43:28
  it's
• 43:29
  big
• 43:29
  and
• 43:29
  fat.
• 43:31
  I
• 43:31
  carried
• 43:31
  him
• 43:32
  on
• 43:32
  my
• 43:32
  back,
• 43:33
  left
• 43:33
  him
• 43:34
  at
• 43:34
  the
• 43:34
  riverside.
• 43:37
  So
• 43:37
  that
• 43:37
  was
• 43:37
  my
• 43:37
  koan
• 43:38
  for
• 43:38
  that
• 43:38
  day.
• 43:38
  I
• 43:39
  don't
• 43:39
  know
• 43:39
  if
• 43:39
  anybody
• 43:39
  knows
• 43:40
  what
• 43:40
  that
• 43:40
  means,
• 43:40
  but,
• 43:41
  yeah,
• 43:41
  sometimes
• 43:44
  the
• 43:44
  insanity
• 43:44
  of
• 43:45
  it
• 43:45
  all
• 43:45
  and
• 43:45
  the
• 43:45
  pain
• 43:45
  of
• 43:45
  the
• 43:46
  world,
• 43:46
  you
• 43:46
  know,
• 43:47
  I
• 43:47
  carry
• 43:47
  it
• 43:47
  around
• 43:47
  on
• 43:48
  my
• 43:48
  back,
• 43:48
  basically.
• 43:49
  And
• 43:49
  sometimes,
• 43:51
  you
• 43:51
  know,
• 43:51
  I
• 43:51
  leave
• 43:52
  it
• 43:52
  by
• 43:52
  the
• 43:52
  river.
• 43:52
  Like
• 43:53
  the
• 43:53
  story
• 43:53
  of
• 43:53
  the
• 43:53
  two.
• 43:54
  He
• 43:54
  carried
• 43:54
  the
• 43:55
  young
• 43:55
  woman,
• 43:55
  the
• 43:55
  two
• 43:55
  monks.
• 43:56
  And
• 43:56
  the
• 43:57
  guy
• 43:57
  was
• 43:57
  like
• 43:58
  his
• 43:58
  other.
• 43:58
  His
• 43:58
  other
• 43:59
  brother
• 43:59
  was
• 43:59
  saying,
• 43:59
  you
• 43:59
  know,
• 43:59
  you
• 44:00
  carry.
• 44:00
  We're
• 44:00
  not
• 44:00
  supposed
• 44:00
  to
• 44:01
  touch
• 44:01
  women
• 44:01
  and
• 44:01
  all
• 44:01
  this
• 44:01
  stuff.
• 44:02
  And
• 44:02
  the
• 44:02
  guy
• 44:02
  said,
• 44:02
  well,
• 44:03
  yeah,
• 44:03
  I
• 44:04
  know
• 44:04
  I
• 44:04
  did
• 44:04
  that,
• 44:04
  but
• 44:04
  I
• 44:04
  left
• 44:05
  her
• 44:05
  at
• 44:05
  the
• 44:05
  riverside,
• 44:06
  you
• 44:07
  know,
• 44:07
  and
• 44:07
  you're
• 44:07
  still.
• 44:07
  You
• 44:08
  know,
• 44:08
  you're
• 44:08
  still
• 44:08
  on
• 44:08
  it,
• 44:09
  so
• 44:10
  that
• 44:10
  helped
• 44:11
  me.
• 44:11
  And
• 44:11
  just
• 44:11
  in
• 44:12
  a
• 44:12
  little
• 44:12
  way.
• 44:12
  You're
• 44:13
  still
• 44:13
  carrying
• 44:13
  her.
• 44:14
  Yeah,
• 44:14
  exactly.
• 44:15
  Yeah.
• 44:15
  I
• 44:15
  put
• 44:15
  her
• 44:15
  down,
• 44:16
  but
• 44:16
  you're
• 44:16
  still
• 44:16
  carrying
• 44:17
  her.
• 44:17
  Yeah,
• 44:17
  exactly.
• 44:18
  Yeah.
• 44:19
  That's
• 44:19
  beautiful,
• 44:19
  John.
• 44:20
  Take
• 44:20
  a
• 44:20
  quick
• 44:20
  swing,
• 44:21
  Rishi.
• 44:21
  And
• 44:22
  then
• 44:22
  please
• 44:23
  add
• 44:23
  the
• 44:23
  genius
• 44:24
  you
• 44:24
  got.
• 44:24
  Take
• 44:25
  a
• 44:25
  full
• 44:25
  swing.
• 44:27
  Do
• 44:28
  it,
• 44:28
  brother.
• 44:29
  One
• 44:29
  of
• 44:29
  the
• 44:29
  things
• 44:29
  that
• 44:31
  Roshi's
• 44:33
  repeatedly
• 44:33
  reminded
• 44:34
  me
• 44:34
  of
• 44:34
  is
• 44:35
  that
• 44:36
  the
• 44:36
  ego
• 44:36
  is
• 44:36
  limited,
• 44:38
  and
• 44:39
  that
• 44:39
  flies
• 44:39
  a
• 44:39
  little
• 44:39
  bit
• 44:39
  in
• 44:39
  the
• 44:40
  face
• 44:40
  of
• 44:40
  maybe
• 44:41
  a
• 44:41
  more
• 44:41
  traditional
• 44:41
  look
• 44:42
  at
• 44:42
  the
• 44:42
  ego,
• 44:42
  which
• 44:42
  is
• 44:42
  this
• 44:43
  thing
• 44:43
  that's
• 44:44
  a
• 44:44
  little
• 44:44
  villainized
• 44:45
  to
• 44:45
  be
• 44:45
  transcended,
• 44:46
  pierced
• 44:46
  through,
• 44:47
  destroyed,
• 44:47
  annihilated.
• 44:48
  But
• 44:48
  if
• 44:48
  we
• 44:48
  take
• 44:48
  the
• 44:49
  frame
• 44:49
  of
• 44:49
  the
• 44:49
  ego
• 44:49
  being
• 44:50
  limited,
• 44:51
  what
• 44:51
  I
• 44:51
  take
• 44:51
  that
• 44:51
  to
• 44:51
  mean.
• 44:52
  And
• 44:52
  I'm
• 44:52
  now
• 44:53
  going
• 44:53
  into
• 44:53
  the
• 44:54
  polarization,
• 44:54
  Roger.
• 44:55
  And
• 44:55
  when
• 44:55
  I'm
• 44:56
  working
• 44:56
  with
• 44:56
  the
• 44:56
  groups
• 44:56
  that
• 44:56
  I'm
• 44:57
  working
• 44:57
  with,
• 44:57
  it's
• 44:58
  so
• 44:58
  clear
• 44:58
  to
• 44:59
  me
• 44:59
  when
• 44:59
  the
• 44:59
  room
• 44:59
  or
• 45:00
  the
• 45:00
  whole
• 45:00
  vibe
• 45:00
  is
• 45:01
  encased
• 45:02
  in
• 45:03
  the
• 45:03
  limitations
• 45:03
  of
• 45:04
  ego.
• 45:05
  Because
• 45:05
  at
• 45:05
  one
• 45:05
  basic
• 45:06
  level,
• 45:06
  and
• 45:06
  the.
• 45:06
  Suffering
• 45:07
  of
• 45:07
  ego
• 45:08
  and
• 45:08
  the
• 45:08
  suffering
• 45:08
  of
• 45:09
  ego,
• 45:09
  the
• 45:09
  limitation
• 45:10
  and
• 45:10
  the
• 45:10
  suffering.
• 45:10
  Yeah,
• 45:11
  yeah.
• 45:11
  Because
• 45:12
  at
• 45:12
  a
• 45:13
  very
• 45:13
  basic
• 45:13
  level,
• 45:13
  and
• 45:13
  this
• 45:13
  is
• 45:14
  another
• 45:14
  pointing
• 45:14
  out
• 45:14
  that
• 45:14
  DAI
• 45:15
  has
• 45:15
  given
• 45:15
  me
• 45:15
  is
• 45:16
  the
• 45:16
  ego
• 45:16
  is
• 45:16
  a
• 45:16
  homeostatic
• 45:17
  function.
• 45:17
  Like
• 45:18
  it's
• 45:19
  trying
• 45:19
  to
• 45:19
  return
• 45:20
  to
• 45:20
  some
• 45:20
  homeostatic
• 45:21
  balance,
• 45:23
  and
• 45:23
  most
• 45:23
  often
• 45:24
  doing
• 45:24
  that
• 45:24
  by
• 45:24
  the
• 45:25
  manipulation
• 45:25
  of
• 45:25
  the
• 45:25
  environment
• 45:26
  or
• 45:26
  other
• 45:26
  people.
• 45:28
  Never
• 45:28
  really
• 45:29
  working
• 45:29
  with
• 45:29
  itself,
• 45:29
  per
• 45:30
  se.
• 45:31
  When
• 45:31
  a
• 45:31
  room
• 45:31
  or
• 45:32
  two
• 45:32
  parties
• 45:33
  are
• 45:33
  locked
• 45:33
  in
• 45:34
  horns,
• 45:34
  it's
• 45:34
  basically
• 45:35
  their
• 45:35
  egos
• 45:35
  trying
• 45:35
  to
• 45:35
  find
• 45:35
  homeostatic
• 45:36
  function
• 45:36
  by
• 45:37
  making
• 45:37
  the
• 45:37
  other
• 45:37
  one.
• 45:37
  Trying
• 45:38
  to
• 45:38
  make
• 45:38
  the
• 45:38
  other
• 45:38
  one
• 45:38
  different
• 45:39
  somehow.
• 45:40
  And
• 45:41
  when
• 45:41
  we're
• 45:41
  in
• 45:41
  that
• 45:42
  mode,
• 45:43
  we
• 45:43
  are
• 45:43
  literally
• 45:43
  limited
• 45:45
  insofar
• 45:45
  as
• 45:45
  every
• 45:46
  decision,
• 45:46
  every
• 45:46
  choice,
• 45:47
  every
• 45:47
  perception
• 45:47
  we're
• 45:48
  having
• 45:49
  is
• 45:51
  a
• 45:52
  strategy
• 45:52
  to
• 45:52
  get
• 45:52
  to
• 45:53
  homeostasis
• 45:53
  for
• 45:53
  the
• 45:54
  ego
• 45:55
  in
• 45:56
  some
• 45:56
  basic
• 45:56
  way.
• 45:58
  And
• 45:58
  I'm
• 45:58
  noticing
• 45:59
  Martin
• 45:59
  Luther
• 46:00
  King
• 46:01
  behind
• 46:01
  John's
• 46:02
  back.
• 46:04
  And
• 46:04
  so
• 46:04
  when
• 46:04
  we
• 46:05
  reflect
• 46:05
  on
• 46:06
  him
• 46:06
  and
• 46:07
  John
• 46:07
  Lewis,
• 46:08
  who's
• 46:08
  been
• 46:09
  an
• 46:09
  avatar
• 46:09
  for
• 46:10
  me,
• 46:11
  they
• 46:11
  wove
• 46:12
  in
• 46:12
  their
• 46:12
  spiritual
• 46:13
  practice
• 46:13
  very
• 46:14
  profoundly
• 46:14
  into
• 46:14
  their
• 46:15
  work.
• 46:16
  And
• 46:18
  the
• 46:18
  caliber
• 46:19
  of
• 46:20
  that
• 46:20
  training,
• 46:21
  I
• 46:21
  don't
• 46:21
  quite
• 46:22
  feel
• 46:22
  in
• 46:23
  the
• 46:23
  mainstream
• 46:23
  as
• 46:23
  it
• 46:24
  was
• 46:24
  back
• 46:24
  then.
• 46:25
  And
• 46:26
  one
• 46:26
  of
• 46:26
  the
• 46:26
  things
• 46:26
  that
• 46:26
  I
• 46:26
  want
• 46:27
  to
• 46:27
  share
• 46:27
  is
• 46:28
  a
• 46:29
  story
• 46:29
  that
• 46:29
  John
• 46:29
  Lewis
• 46:30
  or
• 46:30
  a
• 46:31
  reporting
• 46:31
  of
• 46:31
  his
• 46:31
  experience
• 46:32
  which
• 46:33
  points
• 46:33
  to
• 46:33
  a
• 46:34
  way
• 46:34
  of
• 46:34
  being
• 46:34
  that's
• 46:35
  inclusive
• 46:36
  of
• 46:36
  the
• 46:36
  ego,
• 46:37
  but
• 46:37
  by
• 46:37
  no
• 46:38
  means
• 46:38
  limited
• 46:39
  by
• 46:40
  the
• 46:40
  ego.
• 46:40
  In
• 46:40
  other
• 46:41
  words,
• 46:41
  my
• 46:41
  behaviors
• 46:42
  and
• 46:42
  choices
• 46:43
  have.
• 46:43
  Actually,
• 46:44
  there's
• 46:44
  a
• 46:44
  broader
• 46:45
  range
• 46:45
  of
• 46:45
  behaviors
• 46:46
  and
• 46:46
  choices
• 46:47
  because
• 46:47
  I'm
• 46:48
  not
• 46:48
  simply
• 46:48
  operating
• 46:49
  from
• 46:49
  ego.
• 46:50
  So
• 46:51
  he
• 46:51
  was
• 46:51
  being
• 46:51
  interviewed
• 46:52
  by
• 46:52
  Chris
• 46:52
  Tippett,
• 46:54
  and
• 46:55
  they
• 46:55
  were
• 46:55
  recollecting
• 46:56
  Bloody
• 46:57
  Sunday,
• 46:57
  which
• 46:58
  is
• 46:58
  the
• 46:58
  day
• 46:58
  that
• 46:58
  he
• 46:58
  walked
• 46:59
  or
• 46:59
  led
• 46:59
  a
• 47:00
  nonviolent
• 47:00
  protest
• 47:00
  across
• 47:01
  the
• 47:01
  Edmund
• 47:01
  Petas
• 47:02
  Bridge.
• 47:03
  They
• 47:04
  were
• 47:04
  confronted
• 47:04
  by
• 47:04
  a
• 47:05
  wall
• 47:05
  of
• 47:05
  police
• 47:05
  officers,
• 47:06
  dogs,
• 47:07
  Billy
• 47:07
  sticks,
• 47:09
  and
• 47:09
  they
• 47:09
  were
• 47:09
  dispersed
• 47:10
  violently.
• 47:11
  He
• 47:12
  received
• 47:12
  two
• 47:12
  blows
• 47:13
  to
• 47:13
  the
• 47:13
  head,
• 47:13
  fractured
• 47:14
  his
• 47:14
  skull,
• 47:14
  went
• 47:15
  to
• 47:15
  the
• 47:15
  hospital,
• 47:16
  almost
• 47:17
  died,
• 47:18
  and
• 47:18
  was
• 47:20
  non
• 47:20
  violently
• 47:21
  protesting.
• 47:21
  48
• 47:22
  hours
• 47:22
  later,
• 47:24
  and
• 47:25
  he's
• 47:25
  been
• 47:25
  thrown
• 47:25
  in
• 47:26
  jail
• 47:26
  40
• 47:26
  times
• 47:27
  plus.
• 47:27
  And
• 47:28
  Chris
• 47:28
  Attippett
• 47:28
  said,
• 47:29
  you
• 47:29
  know,
• 47:29
  no
• 47:29
  one
• 47:29
  would
• 47:29
  have
• 47:31
  faulted
• 47:31
  you
• 47:31
  for
• 47:31
  throwing
• 47:32
  one
• 47:32
  punch
• 47:32
  or
• 47:32
  throwing
• 47:33
  one
• 47:33
  elbow,
• 47:33
  and
• 47:33
  you
• 47:33
  never
• 47:34
  did.
• 47:34
  Like,
• 47:35
  where
• 47:36
  did
• 47:36
  you
• 47:37
  get
• 47:37
  that
• 47:38
  conviction
• 47:40
  in
• 47:40
  your
• 47:40
  stance?
• 47:40
  And
• 47:41
  his
• 47:41
  response
• 47:41
  was
• 47:41
  so
• 47:42
  beautiful.
• 47:43
  Which
• 47:43
  was
• 47:44
  Krista.
• 47:44
  I
• 47:44
  knew
• 47:45
  that
• 47:45
  what
• 47:45
  we
• 47:45
  were
• 47:46
  fighting
• 47:46
  for
• 47:46
  was
• 47:46
  already
• 47:47
  done.
• 47:48
  The
• 47:49
  beloved
• 47:49
  community
• 47:50
  that
• 47:50
  we
• 47:50
  were
• 47:50
  striving
• 47:50
  for
• 47:51
  was
• 47:51
  already
• 47:51
  complete.
• 47:52
  When
• 47:52
  I
• 47:52
  looked
• 47:53
  across
• 47:55
  the
• 47:55
  end
• 47:55
  of
• 47:55
  that
• 47:55
  bridge
• 47:56
  at
• 47:56
  those
• 47:56
  police
• 47:56
  officers,
• 47:57
  I
• 47:57
  know
• 47:57
  who
• 47:57
  they
• 47:58
  are.
• 47:58
  They're
• 47:59
  my
• 47:59
  brothers.
• 47:59
  I
• 48:00
  just
• 48:00
  know
• 48:00
  that
• 48:00
  that's
• 48:01
  the
• 48:01
  truth
• 48:01
  of
• 48:01
  it.
• 48:02
  I
• 48:02
  know
• 48:02
  that
• 48:03
  there
• 48:03
  is
• 48:03
  an
• 48:03
  idea
• 48:03
  that
• 48:04
  they're
• 48:04
  white
• 48:04
  and
• 48:04
  I'm
• 48:04
  black,
• 48:05
  and
• 48:05
  that's
• 48:06
  the
• 48:07
  difference
• 48:07
  that
• 48:07
  matters.
• 48:08
  But
• 48:09
  I'm
• 48:09
  just
• 48:09
  seeing
• 48:09
  through
• 48:10
  that.
• 48:10
  I
• 48:10
  just
• 48:10
  know
• 48:11
  that
• 48:11
  the
• 48:11
  reality
• 48:12
  is
• 48:12
  already
• 48:12
  the
• 48:12
  case.
• 48:13
  What
• 48:13
  I'm
• 48:13
  fighting
• 48:13
  for
• 48:13
  is
• 48:14
  already
• 48:14
  the
• 48:14
  case.
• 48:15
  It's
• 48:15
  done.
• 48:17
  And
• 48:17
  from
• 48:17
  that
• 48:18
  point
• 48:18
  of
• 48:18
  view,
• 48:19
  his
• 48:19
  optionality
• 48:20
  is
• 48:21
  vast
• 48:21
  and
• 48:22
  wide.
• 48:23
  His
• 48:23
  choosing
• 48:24
  of
• 48:24
  how
• 48:24
  to
• 48:25
  be
• 48:25
  in
• 48:25
  that
• 48:25
  moment
• 48:26
  is
• 48:28
  jarring
• 48:30
  from
• 48:30
  the
• 48:30
  conventional
• 48:31
  point
• 48:31
  of
• 48:31
  view
• 48:31
  of
• 48:31
  the
• 48:31
  ego,
• 48:32
  like,
• 48:32
  what
• 48:32
  is
• 48:32
  going
• 48:32
  on?
• 48:34
  So
• 48:34
  from
• 48:34
  one
• 48:35
  point
• 48:35
  of
• 48:35
  view,
• 48:36
  John
• 48:36
  is
• 48:36
  in
• 48:36
  a
• 48:36
  white
• 48:37
  world.
• 48:37
  There's
• 48:37
  a
• 48:37
  white
• 48:38
  water
• 48:38
  fountain,
• 48:38
  there's
• 48:38
  a
• 48:38
  black
• 48:39
  water
• 48:39
  fountain.
• 48:40
  But
• 48:40
  through
• 48:40
  the
• 48:40
  cultivation
• 48:41
  of
• 48:41
  his
• 48:41
  own
• 48:41
  practice
• 48:43
  and
• 48:43
  his
• 48:43
  perceptions
• 48:44
  of
• 48:44
  reality,
• 48:44
  like
• 48:45
  that
• 48:45
  whole
• 48:45
  situation
• 48:46
  was
• 48:46
  inside
• 48:46
  of
• 48:47
  John's
• 48:47
  world,
• 48:48
  inside
• 48:48
  of
• 48:48
  Buddha,
• 48:49
  mine.
• 48:49
  And
• 48:50
  so
• 48:51
  for
• 48:51
  me,
• 48:51
  that's
• 48:52
  the
• 48:52
  difference
• 48:53
  that's
• 48:54
  clear
• 48:54
  as
• 48:54
  day
• 48:54
  for
• 48:55
  me
• 48:55
  of
• 48:56
  the
• 48:56
  importance
• 48:57
  of
• 48:57
  a
• 48:57
  contemplative
• 48:58
  practice
• 48:59
  and
• 48:59
  yoking
• 48:59
  that
• 48:59
  to
• 49:00
  skills
• 49:00
  that
• 49:00
  actually
• 49:01
  allow
• 49:01
  us
• 49:01
  to
• 49:01
  be
• 49:01
  effective
• 49:02
  in
• 49:02
  the
• 49:02
  world.
• 49:03
  So
• 49:03
  I
• 49:03
  just
• 49:03
  wanted
• 49:03
  to
• 49:04
  share
• 49:05
  that
• 49:05
  because
• 49:06
  I
• 49:06
  feel
• 49:06
  it's
• 49:07
  what's
• 49:08
  my
• 49:08
  North
• 49:08
  Star,
• 49:10
  personally.
• 49:11
  Thank
• 49:12
  you,
• 49:13
  Diane.
• 49:15
  It
• 49:15
  takes
• 49:15
  me
• 49:15
  a
• 49:15
  little
• 49:16
  back
• 49:16
  to
• 49:16
  the
• 49:16
  earlier
• 49:17
  conversation
• 49:18
  about
• 49:18
  practice
• 49:19
  and
• 49:19
  is
• 49:20
  practice
• 49:20
  enlightenment?
• 49:21
  Because
• 49:21
  we
• 49:21
  still
• 49:22
  discouraged,
• 49:23
  we
• 49:23
  still
• 49:23
  get
• 49:23
  confused,
• 49:24
  we
• 49:24
  still
• 49:24
  get
• 49:24
  angry.
• 49:25
  We
• 49:25
  still.
• 49:26
  And
• 49:26
  whenever
• 49:27
  our
• 49:27
  mind
• 49:27
  is
• 49:27
  working
• 49:28
  in
• 49:28
  that
• 49:28
  way,
• 49:29
  we're
• 49:29
  operating
• 49:30
  on
• 49:30
  the
• 49:30
  subtle
• 49:31
  assumption
• 49:31
  that
• 49:32
  the
• 49:32
  Buddha
• 49:32
  mind
• 49:33
  doesn't
• 49:34
  exist
• 49:34
  when
• 49:35
  things
• 49:35
  are
• 49:35
  negative,
• 49:36
  which
• 49:37
  is
• 49:37
  the
• 49:37
  point
• 49:37
  that
• 49:38
  Gabe's
• 49:38
  making.
• 49:39
  You
• 49:39
  know,
• 49:39
  Oman's
• 49:40
  famous
• 49:40
  for
• 49:41
  the
• 49:41
  monk
• 49:41
  says,
• 49:42
  what
• 49:42
  is
• 49:42
  Buddha?
• 49:43
  And
• 49:43
  Uman
• 49:43
  says,
• 49:43
  a
• 49:44
  shit
• 49:44
  stick.
• 49:45
  Right.
• 49:46
  And
• 49:46
  I.
• 49:47
  So
• 49:47
  I
• 49:47
  would
• 49:47
  begin
• 49:48
  by
• 49:48
  saying,
• 49:48
  don't
• 49:49
  for
• 49:49
  a
• 49:50
  moment
• 49:50
  think
• 49:50
  that
• 49:50
  what's
• 49:51
  happening
• 49:51
  shouldn't
• 49:51
  be
• 49:52
  happening,
• 49:53
  because
• 49:54
  it
• 49:54
  is
• 49:54
  happening.
• 49:55
  It
• 49:56
  may
• 49:56
  be
• 49:56
  painful,
• 49:57
  it
• 49:57
  may
• 49:57
  be
• 49:57
  confusing,
• 49:58
  it
• 49:58
  may
• 49:58
  be
• 49:58
  frightening,
• 49:59
  but
• 49:59
  it
• 49:59
  is
• 49:59
  what's
• 50:00
  happening.
• 50:01
  And
• 50:01
  so
• 50:01
  the
• 50:01
  question
• 50:02
  becomes,
• 50:02
  how
• 50:02
  do
• 50:02
  we
• 50:02
  respond?
• 50:03
  Because
• 50:04
  so
• 50:04
  often
• 50:04
  we're
• 50:05
  operating
• 50:05
  out
• 50:06
  of
• 50:06
  an
• 50:06
  idea
• 50:06
  that
• 50:06
  it
• 50:06
  shouldn't
• 50:07
  be
• 50:07
  this
• 50:07
  way.
• 50:09
  Well,
• 50:09
  Trump
• 50:09
  is
• 50:10
  great
• 50:10
  for
• 50:10
  me
• 50:11
  for
• 50:11
  that,
• 50:11
  because
• 50:11
  the
• 50:12
  fact
• 50:12
  that
• 50:12
  he
• 50:12
  was
• 50:12
  elected
• 50:13
  twice,
• 50:13
  I
• 50:14
  can't
• 50:14
  relate
• 50:15
  to
• 50:15
  this
• 50:15
  as
• 50:15
  an
• 50:15
  aberration
• 50:16
  at
• 50:16
  all.
• 50:16
  You
• 50:17
  know,
• 50:17
  this
• 50:17
  is
• 50:17
  truly
• 50:18
  what
• 50:18
  it
• 50:18
  is.
• 50:18
  Even
• 50:19
  though
• 50:19
  I
• 50:19
  feel
• 50:19
  that
• 50:20
  personally
• 50:21
  that
• 50:21
  his
• 50:21
  character
• 50:22
  isn't
• 50:22
  what
• 50:23
  I
• 50:23
  want
• 50:23
  to
• 50:23
  see
• 50:23
  in,
• 50:24
  you
• 50:25
  know,
• 50:25
  the
• 50:25
  leader
• 50:26
  of
• 50:26
  America.
• 50:27
  I
• 50:27
  want
• 50:27
  a
• 50:27
  different
• 50:28
  quality
• 50:28
  of
• 50:28
  character.
• 50:29
  That's
• 50:29
  all
• 50:29
  there
• 50:29
  is
• 50:29
  to
• 50:29
  it.
• 50:29
  And
• 50:30
  I'll
• 50:30
  take
• 50:30
  a
• 50:30
  stand
• 50:30
  for
• 50:31
  that.
• 50:31
  So
• 50:31
  the
• 50:31
  question
• 50:32
  for
• 50:32
  me
• 50:32
  is
• 50:32
  how
• 50:33
  do
• 50:33
  we
• 50:33
  respond
• 50:34
  to
• 50:34
  without
• 50:35
  imagining
• 50:36
  it
• 50:36
  shouldn't
• 50:36
  be
• 50:36
  happening?
• 50:37
  Because
• 50:37
  it
• 50:38
  is.
• 50:38
  And
• 50:38
  that
• 50:39
  thinking
• 50:39
  it
• 50:39
  could
• 50:40
  be
• 50:40
  otherwise
• 50:40
  means
• 50:41
  we
• 50:41
  have
• 50:41
  to
• 50:41
  blame
• 50:41
  people
• 50:42
  for
• 50:43
  it
• 50:43
  happening.
• 50:44
  So
• 50:44
  now
• 50:45
  that
• 50:45
  I've
• 50:45
  accepted
• 50:46
  this
• 50:46
  is
• 50:46
  what
• 50:46
  I
• 50:47
  am
• 50:47
  working
• 50:47
  with,
• 50:47
  this
• 50:48
  is
• 50:48
  how
• 50:48
  it
• 50:48
  is,
• 50:49
  what.
• 50:49
  How
• 50:50
  do
• 50:50
  I
• 50:50
  show
• 50:50
  up
• 50:50
  in
• 50:51
  such
• 50:51
  a
• 50:51
  way
• 50:51
  to
• 50:53
  free,
• 50:53
  to
• 50:54
  liberate,
• 50:55
  to
• 50:55
  participate
• 50:56
  in
• 50:56
  a
• 50:56
  way
• 50:56
  that
• 50:57
  brings
• 50:57
  the
• 50:57
  outcome
• 50:58
  that
• 50:58
  I
• 50:58
  want
• 50:59
  to
• 50:59
  see?
• 51:00
  I
• 51:00
  don't
• 51:00
  have
• 51:00
  the
• 51:00
  conviction
• 51:01
  John
• 51:01
  Lewis
• 51:02
  had
• 51:02
  that
• 51:02
  it's
• 51:02
  already
• 51:02
  happened.
• 51:03
  But
• 51:03
  from
• 51:03
  a
• 51:03
  certain
• 51:04
  perspective,
• 51:04
  I
• 51:04
  totally
• 51:05
  get
• 51:05
  what
• 51:05
  he's
• 51:05
  talking
• 51:06
  about,
• 51:06
  right?
• 51:07
  So
• 51:07
  I'm
• 51:07
  going
• 51:08
  to
• 51:08
  participate
• 51:09
  in
• 51:09
  whatever
• 51:09
  way
• 51:10
  my
• 51:10
  life
• 51:10
  gives
• 51:11
  me
• 51:11
  the
• 51:11
  opportunity
• 51:12
  to
• 51:12
  participate
• 51:13
  with
• 51:13
  the
• 51:13
  conviction
• 51:14
  that
• 51:16
  this
• 51:16
  is
• 51:16
  what
• 51:16
  we
• 51:16
  have
• 51:16
  to
• 51:17
  work
• 51:17
  with.
• 51:17
  And
• 51:18
  I
• 51:18
  care
• 51:18
  about
• 51:19
  the
• 51:19
  fact
• 51:19
  that
• 51:19
  we're
• 51:20
  fundamentally
• 51:20
  one.
• 51:21
  And
• 51:21
  that's
• 51:21
  what
• 51:21
  I'm
• 51:21
  going
• 51:21
  to
• 51:22
  work
• 51:22
  for.
• 51:22
  And
• 51:23
  I'm
• 51:23
  also
• 51:23
  going
• 51:23
  to
• 51:23
  challenge
• 51:24
  other
• 51:24
  people
• 51:25
  to
• 51:26
  ask
• 51:26
  themselves,
• 51:27
  what
• 51:27
  do
• 51:27
  they
• 51:27
  learn
• 51:27
  from
• 51:28
  their
• 51:28
  own
• 51:28
  life?
• 51:28
  I
• 51:28
  know
• 51:29
  in
• 51:29
  my
• 51:29
  life
• 51:29
  when
• 51:30
  I
• 51:30
  come
• 51:30
  from
• 51:30
  a
• 51:30
  deep
• 51:31
  place
• 51:31
  of
• 51:31
  division,
• 51:32
  I
• 51:32
  create
• 51:32
  a
• 51:32
  lot
• 51:32
  more
• 51:32
  pain
• 51:33
  for
• 51:33
  myself.
• 51:34
  I
• 51:34
  know
• 51:35
  that
• 51:35
  when
• 51:35
  I
• 51:35
  believe
• 51:36
  that
• 51:36
  somebody
• 51:36
  that
• 51:36
  I'm
• 51:37
  dealing
• 51:37
  with
• 51:37
  shouldn't
• 51:37
  be
• 51:38
  acting
• 51:38
  that
• 51:38
  way,
• 51:38
  I
• 51:39
  treat
• 51:39
  them
• 51:39
  differently
• 51:40
  than
• 51:40
  when
• 51:40
  I
• 51:41
  receive.
• 51:41
  This
• 51:41
  is
• 51:41
  what
• 51:42
  is
• 51:42
  happening
• 51:42
  now.
• 51:43
  How
• 51:43
  can
• 51:43
  I
• 51:43
  interact
• 51:44
  in
• 51:44
  a
• 51:44
  way
• 51:44
  that
• 51:45
  demonstrates
• 51:45
  some
• 51:46
  respect
• 51:46
  and
• 51:46
  maybe
• 51:47
  transmutes
• 51:47
  it
• 51:47
  so
• 51:48
  we
• 51:48
  can
• 51:48
  actually
• 51:48
  see
• 51:48
  each
• 51:49
  other?
• 51:49
  So
• 51:49
  I'm
• 51:50
  just
• 51:50
  super
• 51:50
  clear.
• 51:51
  I'm
• 51:51
  taking
• 51:51
  a
• 51:51
  stand
• 51:52
  for
• 51:52
  those
• 51:52
  values,
• 51:53
  period.
• 51:53
  But
• 51:54
  I'm
• 51:54
  accepting
• 51:54
  the
• 51:54
  fact
• 51:55
  that
• 51:55
  I
• 51:55
  am
• 51:55
  being
• 51:56
  challenged
• 51:56
  outside
• 51:57
  of
• 51:57
  what
• 51:57
  is
• 51:57
  my
• 51:57
  comfort
• 51:58
  zone,
• 51:58
  for
• 51:59
  sure.
• 51:59
  And
• 52:00
  so
• 52:00
  therefore,
• 52:00
  I've
• 52:00
  got
• 52:00
  to
• 52:01
  learn.
• 52:01
  Luckily
• 52:02
  there
• 52:02
  are
• 52:02
  exemplars
• 52:03
  like
• 52:03
  John
• 52:03
  Lewis,
• 52:04
  Gandhi
• 52:04
  with
• 52:05
  his
• 52:05
  peaceful
• 52:06
  resistance,
• 52:07
  like,
• 52:07
  those
• 52:08
  are
• 52:08
  for
• 52:08
  real.
• 52:08
  And
• 52:09
  I.
• 52:09
  They're
• 52:09
  inspiring
• 52:10
  and
• 52:10
  important
• 52:10
  to
• 52:10
  me
• 52:11
  in
• 52:11
  this
• 52:11
  time.
• 52:11
  But
• 52:11
  I
• 52:11
  don't
• 52:12
  think
• 52:12
  in
• 52:12
  any
• 52:13
  moment
• 52:13
  I
• 52:13
  want
• 52:13
  to
• 52:14
  lose
• 52:15
  sight
• 52:15
  of
• 52:16
  the
• 52:16
  fact
• 52:17
  that
• 52:17
  fundamentally
• 52:18
  we
• 52:18
  are
• 52:19
  one.
• 52:20
  And
• 52:20
  if
• 52:20
  we're
• 52:20
  behaving
• 52:21
  in
• 52:21
  ways
• 52:21
  when
• 52:21
  we're
• 52:22
  not,
• 52:22
  I
• 52:23
  want
• 52:23
  to
• 52:23
  challenge
• 52:23
  that.
• 52:26
  And
• 52:26
  so
• 52:26
  what
• 52:26
  I
• 52:27
  hear
• 52:27
  from
• 52:27
  both
• 52:28
  of
• 52:28
  you
• 52:28
  is
• 52:29
  that
• 52:29
  when
• 52:30
  we
• 52:30
  engage
• 52:31
  in
• 52:31
  responding
• 52:32
  to
• 52:32
  injustice
• 52:33
  or
• 52:33
  when
• 52:33
  we
• 52:33
  engage
• 52:34
  in
• 52:34
  these
• 52:34
  social
• 52:35
  activism
• 52:35
  of
• 52:35
  any
• 52:36
  kind,
• 52:37
  that
• 52:37
  it's
• 52:38
  important
• 52:38
  to
• 52:38
  hold
• 52:39
  the
• 52:39
  vision
• 52:40
  of
• 52:41
  who
• 52:41
  and
• 52:41
  what
• 52:41
  we
• 52:42
  really
• 52:42
  are
• 52:42
  and
• 52:43
  who
• 52:43
  and
• 52:43
  what
• 52:44
  the
• 52:44
  people
• 52:45
  we're
• 52:45
  interacting
• 52:46
  with
• 52:46
  really
• 52:46
  are.
• 52:47
  And
• 52:48
  it's
• 52:48
  also
• 52:48
  important
• 52:49
  to
• 52:49
  hold
• 52:49
  the
• 52:49
  values
• 52:51
  that
• 52:52
  animate
• 52:52
  our
• 52:53
  practice
• 52:53
  in
• 52:54
  our
• 52:54
  lives.
• 52:55
  Ideals
• 52:55
  of
• 52:56
  love
• 52:56
  and
• 52:56
  compassion
• 52:57
  and
• 52:57
  care
• 52:58
  and
• 52:58
  responsibility.
• 53:01
  And
• 53:02
  equality
• 53:03
  and
• 53:03
  freedom.
• 53:04
  All
• 53:04
  those
• 53:04
  beautiful
• 53:05
  American
• 53:05
  values
• 53:06
  are
• 53:06
  Also
• 53:06
  Buddhist
• 53:07
  values,
• 53:08
  they're
• 53:08
  the
• 53:08
  same,
• 53:09
  you
• 53:09
  know,
• 53:10
  those
• 53:10
  American
• 53:10
  values
• 53:11
  are.
• 53:11
  So
• 53:12
  one
• 53:12
  of
• 53:12
  the
• 53:13
  things
• 53:13
  about
• 53:13
  the
• 53:14
  time
• 53:14
  that
• 53:14
  I'm
• 53:14
  really
• 53:14
  appreciating
• 53:16
  is
• 53:17
  given
• 53:17
  America's
• 53:19
  use
• 53:19
  of
• 53:19
  power
• 53:19
  and
• 53:20
  its
• 53:21
  involvement
• 53:22
  in
• 53:22
  foreign
• 53:22
  wars
• 53:22
  and
• 53:23
  its
• 53:23
  capitalistic
• 53:24
  greedy
• 53:25
  impulses
• 53:26
  and
• 53:26
  all
• 53:26
  the
• 53:27
  shadow,
• 53:27
  the
• 53:28
  goodness
• 53:28
  and
• 53:28
  the
• 53:28
  aspiration
• 53:29
  is
• 53:29
  also
• 53:30
  still
• 53:30
  intact
• 53:30
  for
• 53:31
  me.
• 53:32
  It's
• 53:32
  like
• 53:32
  that
• 53:33
  idea
• 53:33
  that
• 53:34
  we
• 53:34
  could
• 53:34
  all
• 53:34
  be
• 53:35
  treated
• 53:36
  the
• 53:36
  same
• 53:36
  in
• 53:36
  the
• 53:36
  social
• 53:37
  sphere.
• 53:37
  Buddhism
• 53:38
  teaches
• 53:38
  us
• 53:38
  how
• 53:39
  to
• 53:39
  be
• 53:39
  the
• 53:39
  same
• 53:40
  in
• 53:40
  the
• 53:40
  interiors.
• 53:41
  The
• 53:41
  American
• 53:42
  project
• 53:42
  was
• 53:43
  to
• 53:43
  try
• 53:43
  to
• 53:43
  see
• 53:43
  if
• 53:43
  we
• 53:44
  could
• 53:44
  create
• 53:44
  that
• 53:44
  sameness
• 53:45
  and
• 53:45
  that
• 53:45
  equality
• 53:45
  in
• 53:46
  the
• 53:46
  social
• 53:46
  sphere.
• 53:47
  That's
• 53:47
  a
• 53:47
  lot
• 53:47
  harder
• 53:48
  problem
• 53:49
  in
• 53:49
  a
• 53:49
  way.
• 53:50
  You
• 53:50
  know
• 53:51
  we
• 53:51
  say
• 53:51
  that
• 53:52
  attaining
• 53:52
  nirvana
• 53:53
  is
• 53:53
  easy.
• 53:54
  It's
• 53:54
  manifesting
• 53:55
  it
• 53:55
  that's
• 53:55
  difficult.
• 53:57
  Well,
• 53:59
  very
• 53:59
  easy
• 54:02
  maybe.
• 54:03
  Okay,
• 54:03
  fair,.
• 54:06
  Yeah,
• 54:07
  let's
• 54:07
  see.
• 54:07
  I
• 54:07
  was
• 54:07
  wanting
• 54:08
  to
• 54:08
  follow
• 54:08
  up
• 54:09
  on
• 54:09
  something
• 54:09
  here.
• 54:10
  Now
• 54:11
  I
• 54:11
  had
• 54:11
  a
• 54:11
  thing
• 54:12
  to
• 54:12
  add
• 54:12
  to
• 54:12
  that.
• 54:13
  I
• 54:13
  think
• 54:14
  about
• 54:14
  this
• 54:14
  a
• 54:14
  lot,
• 54:15
  you
• 54:15
  know,
• 54:15
  because
• 54:15
  I
• 54:15
  really
• 54:16
  admire
• 54:17
  the
• 54:17
  Quakers,
• 54:18
  you
• 54:18
  know,
• 54:18
  as
• 54:19
  one
• 54:19
  of
• 54:19
  the
• 54:19
  best
• 54:19
  Christian
• 54:20
  groups.
• 54:20
  I
• 54:20
  mean
• 54:20
  manifesting
• 54:21
  really,
• 54:21
  I
• 54:21
  think
• 54:22
  Jesus
• 54:22
  would
• 54:22
  have
• 54:22
  really
• 54:22
  liked
• 54:22
  that,
• 54:23
  you
• 54:23
  know
• 54:24
  and,
• 54:24
  but
• 54:25
  there's
• 54:25
  that
• 54:25
  non
• 54:25
  violence
• 54:26
  thing
• 54:26
  that
• 54:26
  I
• 54:26
  can't
• 54:27
  wrap
• 54:27
  my
• 54:27
  head
• 54:27
  around,
• 54:28
  you
• 54:28
  know,
• 54:28
  is
• 54:28
  there
• 54:28
  a
• 54:29
  time
• 54:29
  for
• 54:29
  dharmic
• 54:29
  violence
• 54:30
  and
• 54:30
  protecting
• 54:31
  a
• 54:31
  child
• 54:31
  or
• 54:32
  protecting
• 54:32
  an
• 54:32
  innocence
• 54:33
  person
• 54:33
  that's
• 54:33
  being
• 54:34
  attacked?
• 54:35
  Everything
• 54:35
  in
• 54:35
  my
• 54:36
  instincts
• 54:37
  says
• 54:37
  absolutely
• 54:39
  and
• 54:39
  you
• 54:39
  do
• 54:39
  it,
• 54:40
  you
• 54:40
  know,
• 54:40
  you
• 54:40
  do
• 54:41
  it
• 54:41
  and
• 54:41
  it's
• 54:42
  a
• 54:42
  part
• 54:42
  of
• 54:42
  me
• 54:42
  doing
• 54:42
  something
• 54:43
  bad
• 54:43
  so
• 54:43
  I
• 54:43
  want
• 54:43
  to
• 54:43
  stop
• 54:44
  that
• 54:44
  part
• 54:44
  of
• 54:44
  me
• 54:44
  before
• 54:44
  it
• 54:45
  hurts
• 54:45
  that
• 54:45
  other
• 54:45
  part
• 54:46
  of
• 54:46
  me
• 54:46
  that's
• 54:46
  even
• 54:47
  worse.
• 54:48
  So
• 54:48
  I,
• 54:49
  yeah,
• 54:50
  I
• 54:50
  couldn't
• 54:50
  join
• 54:50
  the
• 54:50
  Quakers
• 54:51
  because
• 54:51
  I
• 54:51
  think
• 54:51
  there's
• 54:51
  sometimes
• 54:52
  that
• 54:52
  I,
• 54:52
  and
• 54:52
  I'm
• 54:52
  very
• 54:53
  protective
• 54:53
  naturally.
• 54:54
  That's
• 54:54
  just
• 54:54
  where
• 54:54
  I
• 54:54
  come
• 54:55
  from
• 54:55
  and
• 54:55
  I
• 54:56
  would,
• 54:56
  to
• 54:56
  protect
• 54:58
  other
• 54:58
  people,
• 54:59
  you
• 54:59
  know,
• 54:59
  I
• 54:59
  can
• 55:00
  turn
• 55:00
  the
• 55:00
  other
• 55:00
  cheek
• 55:01
  myself
• 55:02
  but
• 55:02
  if
• 55:02
  it
• 55:02
  involves
• 55:03
  protecting
• 55:03
  somebody
• 55:03
  else,
• 55:04
  I
• 55:04
  think
• 55:04
  I
• 55:04
  can
• 55:05
  act
• 55:05
  from
• 55:05
  a
• 55:06
  dharmic
• 55:07
  wise
• 55:07
  place.
• 55:08
  Even
• 55:08
  if
• 55:08
  that
• 55:08
  requires
• 55:09
  me
• 55:10
  to
• 55:10
  do
• 55:10
  something
• 55:10
  aggressively
• 55:11
  violent
• 55:11
  in
• 55:11
  that
• 55:12
  moment.
• 55:13
  That's
• 55:13
  a
• 55:13
  coon
• 55:14
  I
• 55:14
  guess,
• 55:14
  is
• 55:14
  the
• 55:14
  question.
• 55:15
  Well,
• 55:15
  it
• 55:15
  might
• 55:16
  be,
• 55:16
  yeah.
• 55:17
  And
• 55:17
  I
• 55:17
  mean
• 55:18
  what
• 55:18
  does
• 55:18
  it
• 55:19
  take
• 55:19
  to
• 55:19
  stop
• 55:19
  something?
• 55:20
  You
• 55:20
  know,
• 55:20
  it
• 55:20
  might
• 55:21
  depend
• 55:21
  a
• 55:21
  little
• 55:21
  bit
• 55:21
  on
• 55:21
  the
• 55:21
  frame.
• 55:22
  You
• 55:22
  know,
• 55:22
  you
• 55:22
  gotta
• 55:22
  be
• 55:23
  forceful
• 55:23
  sometimes
• 55:24
  to
• 55:24
  stop
• 55:24
  things
• 55:24
  or
• 55:25
  change
• 55:25
  things.
• 55:27
  Yeah.
• 55:27
  And
• 55:28
  working
• 55:28
  with
• 55:28
  addicts,
• 55:29
  which
• 55:29
  I
• 55:29
  did
• 55:30
  for
• 55:30
  years,
• 55:32
  love
• 55:33
  does
• 55:33
  not
• 55:33
  always
• 55:33
  look
• 55:34
  like
• 55:34
  just
• 55:35
  okay,
• 55:35
  compassion.
• 55:36
  I
• 55:36
  get
• 55:36
  where
• 55:36
  you're
• 55:37
  at
• 55:37
  and
• 55:37
  all
• 55:37
  this
• 55:37
  stuff,
• 55:37
  but
• 55:38
  sometimes
• 55:38
  you
• 55:38
  shut
• 55:38
  the
• 55:38
  fuck
• 55:39
  up,
• 55:39
  sit
• 55:39
  down,
• 55:40
  this
• 55:40
  is
• 55:40
  your
• 55:40
  life
• 55:41
  at
• 55:41
  stake
• 55:41
  and
• 55:41
  I'm
• 55:41
  here
• 55:42
  to
• 55:43
  stop
• 55:43
  this,
• 55:44
  you
• 55:44
  know,
• 55:44
  and,
• 55:44
  and
• 55:45
  that's
• 55:45
  what
• 55:45
  love
• 55:45
  looked
• 55:46
  like
• 55:46
  in
• 55:46
  that
• 55:46
  moment.
• 55:47
  And
• 55:47
  that's
• 55:47
  Very
• 55:48
  clear.
• 55:48
  And
• 55:49
  later
• 55:49
  on,
• 55:50
  when
• 55:50
  you
• 55:50
  get
• 55:50
  through
• 55:51
  the
• 55:51
  early
• 55:51
  stages
• 55:52
  of
• 55:52
  this
• 55:53
  mad
• 55:53
  addiction
• 55:54
  where
• 55:54
  you
• 55:54
  just
• 55:54
  do
• 55:55
  everything
• 55:56
  contrary
• 55:56
  to
• 55:56
  any
• 55:57
  value
• 55:57
  ever
• 55:58
  had
• 55:58
  or
• 55:58
  dreamed
• 55:58
  of
• 55:58
  having,
• 55:59
  it
• 55:59
  has
• 55:59
  to
• 56:00
  be
• 56:00
  the
• 56:00
  containment
• 56:01
  and
• 56:01
  has
• 56:01
  to
• 56:01
  be
• 56:01
  very
• 56:01
  forceful.
• 56:02
  And
• 56:04
  once
• 56:04
  they
• 56:04
  figured
• 56:04
  out
• 56:05
  that
• 56:05
  you
• 56:05
  really
• 56:06
  do
• 56:07
  radically
• 56:07
  care
• 56:07
  about
• 56:08
  them,
• 56:09
  they
• 56:09
  get
• 56:09
  it
• 56:09
  and
• 56:09
  they
• 56:09
  go,
• 56:09
  okay,
• 56:10
  okay.
• 56:10
  You
• 56:11
  know,
• 56:11
  and
• 56:12
  part
• 56:12
  of
• 56:12
  them
• 56:12
  starts
• 56:13
  to
• 56:13
  wake
• 56:13
  up
• 56:13
  to.
• 56:14
  To
• 56:14
  what
• 56:14
  the.
• 56:14
  What's
• 56:15
  going
• 56:15
  on
• 56:15
  here.
• 56:15
  But
• 56:16
  sometimes
• 56:16
  I
• 56:16
  think
• 56:17
  love
• 56:17
  and
• 56:17
  compassion
• 56:18
  can
• 56:18
  be
• 56:19
  extremely
• 56:19
  forceful
• 56:20
  and
• 56:21
  very
• 56:21
  confrontative
• 56:22
  and
• 56:23
  putting
• 56:23
  boundaries
• 56:24
  and
• 56:25
  doing
• 56:25
  that
• 56:25
  thing.
• 56:26
  And
• 56:26
  I've
• 56:26
  had
• 56:26
  to
• 56:27
  do
• 56:27
  that
• 56:27
  a
• 56:27
  lot
• 56:27
  of
• 56:27
  times
• 56:29
  in
• 56:29
  dealing
• 56:30
  with
• 56:30
  people
• 56:30
  in
• 56:30
  early.
• 56:31
  And
• 56:31
  other
• 56:31
  times
• 56:31
  it's
• 56:32
  not,
• 56:32
  you
• 56:33
  know,
• 56:33
  you
• 56:33
  get
• 56:33
  some
• 56:34
  poor
• 56:35
  young
• 56:35
  prostitute
• 56:36
  who's
• 56:36
  addicted
• 56:36
  to
• 56:36
  drugs
• 56:37
  off
• 56:37
  the
• 56:37
  street.
• 56:38
  You
• 56:38
  guys
• 56:38
  are
• 56:38
  trying
• 56:38
  to
• 56:39
  create
• 56:40
  almost
• 56:40
  like
• 56:40
  if
• 56:41
  we
• 56:41
  use
• 56:41
  a
• 56:41
  developmental
• 56:42
  model,
• 56:42
  you're
• 56:42
  with
• 56:43
  an
• 56:43
  addiction,
• 56:44
  the
• 56:44
  behaviors
• 56:45
  become
• 56:45
  so
• 56:46
  out
• 56:46
  of
• 56:46
  control
• 56:46
  and
• 56:47
  the
• 56:47
  lack
• 56:47
  of
• 56:47
  conscience.
• 56:48
  So
• 56:48
  you're
• 56:48
  kind
• 56:49
  of
• 56:49
  half
• 56:49
  into
• 56:49
  crit
• 56:50
  do
• 56:50
  really
• 56:51
  preliminary
• 56:52
  establishing
• 56:53
  of
• 56:53
  a
• 56:53
  container.
• 56:54
  You
• 56:55
  know,
• 56:55
  so
• 56:55
  that
• 56:55
  strength
• 56:56
  and
• 56:56
  that
• 56:56
  makes
• 56:57
  a
• 56:57
  lot
• 56:57
  of
• 56:57
  sense.
• 56:58
  And
• 56:58
  that's
• 56:58
  not
• 56:58
  always
• 56:58
  appropriate,
• 56:59
  but
• 57:00
  again,.
• 57:00
  But
• 57:00
  you're
• 57:00
  not
• 57:00
  losing
• 57:01
  your
• 57:01
  connection
• 57:01
  to
• 57:02
  the
• 57:02
  dignity
• 57:02
  of
• 57:02
  the
• 57:03
  other.
• 57:03
  You're
• 57:03
  just
• 57:04
  acting
• 57:04
  forcefully.
• 57:05
  No.
• 57:05
  And
• 57:06
  sometimes
• 57:06
  it's
• 57:06
  completely
• 57:07
  the
• 57:07
  opposite
• 57:07
  person
• 57:08
  needs
• 57:08
  just
• 57:08
  be
• 57:08
  held.
• 57:08
  It's
• 57:09
  going
• 57:09
  to
• 57:09
  be
• 57:09
  okay.
• 57:09
  We're
• 57:10
  here
• 57:10
  for
• 57:10
  you.
• 57:10
  And
• 57:10
  other
• 57:11
  time,
• 57:11
  you
• 57:11
  know,
• 57:11
  the
• 57:11
  moment
• 57:12
  dictates
• 57:12
  a
• 57:13
  different
• 57:13
  sort
• 57:13
  of
• 57:13
  behavior.
• 57:14
  Yeah.
• 57:15
  Where
• 57:15
  limits
• 57:16
  and
• 57:16
  boundaries
• 57:17
  and
• 57:17
  restraint
• 57:17
  and
• 57:17
  containment.
• 57:18
  It's
• 57:19
  like
• 57:19
  learning
• 57:19
  all
• 57:19
  of
• 57:19
  that
• 57:19
  again,
• 57:20
  you
• 57:20
  know,
• 57:21
  when
• 57:21
  you've
• 57:22
  been
• 57:22
  so
• 57:22
  out
• 57:22
  of
• 57:22
  control.
• 57:24
  So
• 57:24
  I
• 57:25
  don't
• 57:25
  quite
• 57:26
  know
• 57:26
  where
• 57:27
  I
• 57:27
  picked
• 57:28
  this
• 57:28
  up.
• 57:28
  It
• 57:28
  might
• 57:28
  have
• 57:28
  been
• 57:29
  in
• 57:29
  my
• 57:29
  early
• 57:29
  training
• 57:29
  in
• 57:29
  the
• 57:30
  Tibetan
• 57:30
  Buddhist
• 57:30
  tradition,
• 57:31
  but
• 57:31
  the
• 57:31
  sense,
• 57:31
  the
• 57:32
  sensation
• 57:32
  is
• 57:33
  you
• 57:33
  need
• 57:33
  much
• 57:33
  less
• 57:34
  of
• 57:34
  that
• 57:34
  than
• 57:34
  you
• 57:34
  think
• 57:35
  you
• 57:35
  do.
• 57:36
  And
• 57:36
  that
• 57:37
  if
• 57:37
  it's.
• 57:38
  If
• 57:38
  it's
• 57:38
  enacted
• 57:39
  within
• 57:40
  a
• 57:40
  context
• 57:41
  of
• 57:41
  compassion,
• 57:42
  love
• 57:42
  and
• 57:42
  deep
• 57:43
  respect,
• 57:44
  that
• 57:44
  you're
• 57:44
  much
• 57:44
  more
• 57:45
  likely
• 57:45
  to
• 57:45
  do
• 57:45
  it
• 57:46
  appropriately.
• 57:47
  But
• 57:47
  remember,
• 57:49
  handling
• 57:49
  aggression
• 57:50
  as
• 57:50
  a
• 57:50
  form
• 57:50
  of
• 57:51
  love
• 57:51
  is
• 57:51
  like
• 57:51
  handling
• 57:52
  a
• 57:52
  poisonous
• 57:53
  snake.
• 57:54
  So
• 57:55
  be
• 57:55
  very
• 57:56
  discriminating
• 57:57
  and
• 57:57
  very
• 57:57
  clear
• 57:58
  about
• 57:58
  what
• 57:58
  your
• 57:59
  intention
• 57:59
  is,
• 58:00
  because
• 58:00
  it's
• 58:00
  very
• 58:01
  easy
• 58:01
  to
• 58:01
  get
• 58:01
  sucked
• 58:02
  into.
• 58:02
  I
• 58:03
  think
• 58:03
  that
• 58:04
  we
• 58:04
  get
• 58:04
  very
• 58:04
  confused,
• 58:05
  some
• 58:05
  of
• 58:06
  us
• 58:06
  in
• 58:06
  our
• 58:06
  political
• 58:06
  positions,
• 58:07
  because
• 58:08
  the
• 58:08
  question
• 58:09
  about
• 58:09
  what
• 58:09
  does
• 58:09
  the
• 58:10
  good
• 58:10
  fight
• 58:10
  really
• 58:11
  look
• 58:11
  like?
• 58:12
  And
• 58:12
  people
• 58:12
  just
• 58:12
  were
• 58:13
  just
• 58:13
  not
• 58:13
  sure.
• 58:14
  So
• 58:14
  I'm
• 58:15
  literally.
• 58:15
  I
• 58:15
  can
• 58:15
  hear
• 58:15
  my
• 58:15
  tone,
• 58:16
  the
• 58:16
  kind
• 58:16
  of
• 58:16
  adamant
• 58:17
  quality
• 58:17
  of
• 58:17
  my
• 58:17
  tone.
• 58:18
  It's
• 58:18
  because
• 58:18
  I'm
• 58:18
  giving
• 58:18
  myself
• 58:19
  a
• 58:19
  pep
• 58:19
  talk
• 58:20
  like
• 58:20
  I've
• 58:20
  lived
• 58:21
  my
• 58:21
  whole
• 58:21
  life
• 58:22
  to
• 58:23
  figure
• 58:23
  out
• 58:23
  how
• 58:24
  I
• 58:24
  can
• 58:25
  appreciate
• 58:27
  both
• 58:27
  my
• 58:27
  life,
• 58:28
  the
• 58:28
  other
• 58:28
  people
• 58:29
  in
• 58:29
  my
• 58:29
  life,
• 58:29
  this
• 58:29
  incredible
• 58:30
  Phenomena,
• 58:31
  which
• 58:32
  is,
• 58:32
  you
• 58:32
  know,
• 58:32
  the
• 58:33
  world
• 58:33
  we
• 58:33
  live
• 58:33
  in.
• 58:34
  And
• 58:34
  I've
• 58:34
  discovered
• 58:35
  that
• 58:35
  through
• 58:36
  stillness,
• 58:36
  through
• 58:37
  compassion,
• 58:38
  through
• 58:39
  challenging
• 58:39
  myself
• 58:40
  and
• 58:40
  my
• 58:40
  assumptions
• 58:41
  that
• 58:41
  those
• 58:41
  things
• 58:42
  have
• 58:42
  expanded.
• 58:43
  So
• 58:43
  I
• 58:43
  just
• 58:43
  want
• 58:43
  to
• 58:43
  be
• 58:43
  careful
• 58:44
  before
• 58:44
  I'm
• 58:44
  conscripted
• 58:45
  into
• 58:46
  just
• 58:46
  getting
• 58:46
  in
• 58:47
  a
• 58:47
  brawl
• 58:48
  that
• 58:48
  creates
• 58:49
  more
• 58:49
  suffering
• 58:49
  for
• 58:49
  me
• 58:50
  and
• 58:50
  others.
• 58:50
  Like,
• 58:50
  what
• 58:51
  does
• 58:51
  it
• 58:51
  really
• 58:51
  look
• 58:51
  like?
• 58:52
  And
• 58:52
  I
• 58:52
  don't
• 58:52
  think
• 58:52
  we
• 58:52
  have
• 58:52
  good
• 58:53
  leadership.
• 58:53
  It
• 58:53
  would
• 58:53
  be
• 58:54
  nice.
• 58:54
  I
• 58:54
  think
• 58:54
  it's
• 58:55
  confused,
• 58:55
  but
• 58:55
  somebody
• 58:56
  like
• 58:56
  a
• 58:56
  John
• 58:56
  Lewis
• 58:57
  or
• 58:57
  a
• 58:58
  Gandhi,
• 58:59
  you
• 58:59
  know,
• 58:59
  who
• 59:00
  just
• 59:00
  gave
• 59:00
  us
• 59:00
  a
• 59:00
  strategy
• 59:01
  for
• 59:01
  how
• 59:01
  to
• 59:01
  do
• 59:02
  it
• 59:02
  that
• 59:02
  we
• 59:02
  could
• 59:02
  live
• 59:02
  with
• 59:03
  and
• 59:03
  feel
• 59:03
  good
• 59:03
  about.
• 59:05
  So
• 59:05
  I'm
• 59:05
  giving
• 59:06
  myself
• 59:06
  a
• 59:06
  pep
• 59:06
  talk.
• 59:07
  No,
• 59:08
  I
• 59:08
  struggle
• 59:09
  with
• 59:09
  that.
• 59:09
  How
• 59:09
  do
• 59:09
  you
• 59:09
  react
• 59:09
  in
• 59:10
  a
• 59:10
  way
• 59:10
  that
• 59:10
  doesn't
• 59:11
  become
• 59:11
  just
• 59:12
  more
• 59:12
  energy
• 59:12
  for
• 59:12
  the
• 59:13
  problem,
• 59:13
  but
• 59:13
  actually
• 59:14
  helps
• 59:15
  be
• 59:15
  part
• 59:15
  of
• 59:15
  the
• 59:15
  solution?
• 59:16
  Yeah,
• 59:16
  I'm
• 59:17
  still
• 59:17
  living
• 59:17
  that
• 59:17
  question.
• 59:18
  So
• 59:18
  I
• 59:19
  do
• 59:19
  try,
• 59:19
  though.
• 59:19
  I
• 59:19
  try
• 59:19
  and
• 59:20
  I'm
• 59:20
  not
• 59:20
  sure
• 59:20
  I'm
• 59:21
  getting
• 59:21
  it
• 59:21
  quite
• 59:21
  right.
• 59:22
  But
• 59:22
  anyway,
• 59:23
  yeah,
• 59:24
  I'm
• 59:24
  trying.
• 59:24
  Yeah.
• 59:24
  Thanks
• 59:25
  for
• 59:25
  all
• 59:25
  the
• 59:25
  work
• 59:25
  you've
• 59:25
  done
• 59:25
  with
• 59:26
  all
• 59:26
  the
• 59:26
  addicts.
• 59:26
  I
• 59:26
  know
• 59:27
  you've
• 59:27
  helped
• 59:27
  a
• 59:27
  lot
• 59:27
  of
• 59:27
  them,
• 59:29
  John.
• 59:29
  Won
• 59:30
  some,
• 59:30
  lose
• 59:30
  some.
• 59:30
  Yeah,
• 59:31
  you
• 59:31
  know,
• 59:31
  it's
• 59:32
  a
• 59:32
  rough
• 59:32
  gig.
• 59:32
  Yeah,
• 59:33
  yeah,
• 59:33
  yeah.
• 59:34
  You
• 59:34
  helped
• 59:34
  my
• 59:34
  nephew
• 59:35
  a
• 59:35
  lot.
• 59:36
  Yeah,
• 59:36
  I
• 59:36
  love
• 59:36
  your
• 59:36
  nephew.
• 59:37
  He's
• 59:37
  a
• 59:37
  good
• 59:38
  guy.
• 59:39
  I
• 59:40
  want
• 59:40
  to
• 59:40
  touch
• 59:40
  back
• 59:41
  on
• 59:41
  the.
• 59:41
  The
• 59:42
  theme
• 59:42
  of
• 59:42
  growing
• 59:43
  up
• 59:43
  and
• 59:44
  you
• 59:44
  mentioned
• 59:45
  something
• 59:45
  almost
• 59:45
  in
• 59:45
  passing,
• 59:46
  Diane,
• 59:46
  which
• 59:46
  was.
• 59:47
  Seemed
• 59:47
  very
• 59:48
  important
• 59:48
  and
• 59:48
  really
• 59:50
  warranting
• 59:51
  us
• 59:52
  looking
• 59:52
  at
• 59:52
  more
• 59:52
  closely.
• 59:53
  You
• 59:53
  talked
• 59:53
  about,
• 59:55
  let's
• 59:55
  see,
• 59:55
  I
• 59:55
  can't
• 59:56
  remember
• 59:56
  your
• 59:56
  exact
• 59:56
  words
• 59:57
  now,
• 59:57
  but
• 59:57
  you
• 59:58
  basically
• 59:58
  talked
• 59:58
  about,
• 59:59
  you
• 59:59
  know,
• 59:59
  that.
• 1:00:00
  Well,
• 1:00:00
  you
• 1:00:00
  were
• 1:00:01
  speaking
• 1:00:01
  to
• 1:00:02
  religion
• 1:00:03
  as
• 1:00:03
  have
• 1:00:04
  religion
• 1:00:04
  and
• 1:00:04
  religions
• 1:00:06
  as
• 1:00:06
  having
• 1:00:07
  both
• 1:00:07
  the
• 1:00:08
  treatise,
• 1:00:09
  shadow
• 1:00:10
  stuff,
• 1:00:11
  misuse,
• 1:00:12
  misappropriation,
• 1:00:13
  et
• 1:00:13
  cetera,
• 1:00:14
  and
• 1:00:14
  expressing
• 1:00:15
  and
• 1:00:15
  embodying
• 1:00:16
  some
• 1:00:16
  of
• 1:00:16
  the
• 1:00:17
  highest
• 1:00:17
  ideals
• 1:00:17
  humans
• 1:00:18
  have
• 1:00:18
  ever
• 1:00:18
  come
• 1:00:18
  up
• 1:00:19
  with.
• 1:00:19
  And
• 1:00:20
  it
• 1:00:20
  feels
• 1:00:21
  that
• 1:00:21
  there's
• 1:00:21
  a
• 1:00:22
  very
• 1:00:22
  important
• 1:00:22
  way
• 1:00:23
  in
• 1:00:23
  which
• 1:00:23
  this
• 1:00:23
  is
• 1:00:24
  related
• 1:00:24
  to
• 1:00:25
  developmental
• 1:00:26
  stages.
• 1:00:27
  And
• 1:00:27
  I'd
• 1:00:27
  love
• 1:00:27
  to
• 1:00:27
  have
• 1:00:28
  you
• 1:00:28
  speak
• 1:00:28
  to
• 1:00:28
  that.
• 1:00:28
  Maybe
• 1:00:29
  I
• 1:00:29
  can
• 1:00:29
  just
• 1:00:29
  mention
• 1:00:30
  briefly.
• 1:00:31
  Ken
• 1:00:31
  Wilbur
• 1:00:32
  once
• 1:00:33
  really
• 1:00:33
  clarified
• 1:00:34
  things
• 1:00:35
  so
• 1:00:35
  beautifully
• 1:00:35
  for
• 1:00:36
  me.
• 1:00:36
  He
• 1:00:36
  said,
• 1:00:36
  you
• 1:00:36
  know,
• 1:00:37
  putting
• 1:00:38
  it
• 1:00:38
  simply,
• 1:00:38
  you
• 1:00:38
  can
• 1:00:38
  think
• 1:00:39
  of
• 1:00:39
  there
• 1:00:39
  being
• 1:00:39
  two
• 1:00:39
  very
• 1:00:40
  different
• 1:00:40
  kinds
• 1:00:40
  of
• 1:00:40
  religion.
• 1:00:41
  There's
• 1:00:41
  conventional
• 1:00:42
  religion,
• 1:00:42
  which
• 1:00:43
  centers
• 1:00:43
  around
• 1:00:44
  believing
• 1:00:44
  a
• 1:00:45
  story.
• 1:00:45
  And
• 1:00:46
  if
• 1:00:46
  you
• 1:00:46
  believe
• 1:00:46
  the
• 1:00:46
  story,
• 1:00:47
  you're
• 1:00:47
  saved
• 1:00:47
  and
• 1:00:47
  you
• 1:00:48
  don't,
• 1:00:48
  you're
• 1:00:48
  damned.
• 1:00:49
  And
• 1:00:50
  if
• 1:00:50
  others
• 1:00:50
  don't
• 1:00:51
  believe
• 1:00:51
  it,
• 1:00:51
  then
• 1:00:51
  you're,
• 1:00:52
  you
• 1:00:52
  know,
• 1:00:52
  they're
• 1:00:53
  damned
• 1:00:53
  and
• 1:00:53
  you're
• 1:00:54
  entitled
• 1:00:54
  to,
• 1:00:55
  you
• 1:00:55
  know,
• 1:00:55
  you
• 1:00:55
  don't
• 1:00:56
  have
• 1:00:56
  to
• 1:00:56
  treat
• 1:00:56
  them
• 1:00:56
  so
• 1:00:57
  well.
• 1:00:58
  On
• 1:00:58
  the
• 1:00:58
  other
• 1:00:58
  hand,
• 1:00:58
  there's
• 1:00:59
  a
• 1:00:59
  much
• 1:00:59
  less
• 1:01:00
  well
• 1:01:00
  known
• 1:01:00
  form
• 1:01:01
  of
• 1:01:01
  religion,
• 1:01:01
  which
• 1:01:01
  is
• 1:01:02
  a
• 1:01:04
  psychospiritual
• 1:01:05
  technology.
• 1:01:06
  It's
• 1:01:07
  A
• 1:01:07
  training
• 1:01:07
  of
• 1:01:08
  the
• 1:01:08
  mind
• 1:01:09
  to
• 1:01:09
  cultivate
• 1:01:10
  the
• 1:01:10
  qualities
• 1:01:11
  of
• 1:01:11
  heart
• 1:01:11
  and
• 1:01:12
  mind
• 1:01:12
  that
• 1:01:12
  the
• 1:01:12
  founders
• 1:01:13
  discovered
• 1:01:13
  and
• 1:01:13
  the
• 1:01:14
  states
• 1:01:14
  of
• 1:01:14
  mind
• 1:01:14
  they
• 1:01:15
  discovered,
• 1:01:16
  and
• 1:01:16
  to
• 1:01:17
  rediscover
• 1:01:18
  them
• 1:01:18
  for
• 1:01:19
  ourselves.
• 1:01:20
  Those
• 1:01:20
  are
• 1:01:21
  radically
• 1:01:21
  different
• 1:01:22
  kinds
• 1:01:22
  of
• 1:01:22
  religion.
• 1:01:24
  And
• 1:01:24
  unfortunately,
• 1:01:24
  the
• 1:01:25
  contemplative
• 1:01:25
  is
• 1:01:26
  very
• 1:01:26
  little
• 1:01:26
  known
• 1:01:26
  in
• 1:01:26
  our
• 1:01:27
  culture.
• 1:01:27
  So
• 1:01:28
  we'd
• 1:01:28
  love
• 1:01:28
  to
• 1:01:29
  hear
• 1:01:29
  you
• 1:01:29
  speak
• 1:01:29
  to
• 1:01:30
  this
• 1:01:30
  and
• 1:01:30
  the
• 1:01:30
  whole
• 1:01:30
  theme
• 1:01:31
  of
• 1:01:31
  growing
• 1:01:31
  up.
• 1:01:33
  Well,
• 1:01:33
  let
• 1:01:33
  me
• 1:01:34
  just
• 1:01:34
  add
• 1:01:34
  to
• 1:01:34
  what.
• 1:01:35
  To
• 1:01:35
  what
• 1:01:35
  Ken
• 1:01:35
  already
• 1:01:36
  framed
• 1:01:36
  then,
• 1:01:36
  Gabe.
• 1:01:37
  It'd
• 1:01:37
  be
• 1:01:38
  wonderful
• 1:01:38
  to
• 1:01:38
  hear
• 1:01:38
  from
• 1:01:39
  you,
• 1:01:39
  too.
• 1:01:39
  So
• 1:01:40
  the
• 1:01:41
  developmental
• 1:01:42
  tasks
• 1:01:42
  are
• 1:01:42
  different.
• 1:01:43
  You
• 1:01:43
  know,
• 1:01:43
  so
• 1:01:44
  for
• 1:01:45
  the
• 1:01:45
  religion
• 1:01:46
  in
• 1:01:46
  which
• 1:01:46
  you
• 1:01:46
  believe
• 1:01:47
  a
• 1:01:47
  story
• 1:01:48
  and
• 1:01:48
  you
• 1:01:48
  participate
• 1:01:49
  fully
• 1:01:49
  in
• 1:01:50
  that
• 1:01:50
  story,
• 1:01:51
  you
• 1:01:51
  know,
• 1:01:51
  the
• 1:01:51
  developmental
• 1:01:52
  tasks
• 1:01:53
  are
• 1:01:53
  stability,
• 1:01:54
  predictability,
• 1:01:56
  dependability.
• 1:01:58
  You
• 1:01:58
  know,
• 1:01:58
  it's
• 1:01:58
  the
• 1:01:59
  conformity.
• 1:02:00
  The
• 1:02:01
  conformist
• 1:02:02
  parts
• 1:02:03
  of
• 1:02:03
  religion
• 1:02:03
  are
• 1:02:03
  actually
• 1:02:04
  doing
• 1:02:04
  a
• 1:02:04
  very,
• 1:02:04
  very
• 1:02:05
  important
• 1:02:05
  function
• 1:02:06
  in
• 1:02:06
  society
• 1:02:06
  and
• 1:02:07
  for
• 1:02:07
  people.
• 1:02:07
  It's
• 1:02:07
  one
• 1:02:08
  of
• 1:02:08
  the
• 1:02:08
  reasons
• 1:02:08
  AA
• 1:02:08
  works
• 1:02:09
  so
• 1:02:09
  well
• 1:02:10
  with
• 1:02:10
  addiction
• 1:02:10
  is
• 1:02:11
  it
• 1:02:11
  creates
• 1:02:11
  this
• 1:02:11
  container
• 1:02:12
  in
• 1:02:12
  which
• 1:02:12
  predictability,
• 1:02:13
  stability,
• 1:02:14
  understanding,
• 1:02:15
  knowing
• 1:02:15
  your
• 1:02:16
  place
• 1:02:16
  in
• 1:02:16
  the
• 1:02:16
  world,
• 1:02:16
  showing
• 1:02:17
  up
• 1:02:17
  for
• 1:02:17
  your
• 1:02:17
  rituals,
• 1:02:18
  showing
• 1:02:18
  up
• 1:02:18
  for
• 1:02:18
  your
• 1:02:19
  family,
• 1:02:19
  all
• 1:02:20
  that
• 1:02:20
  is
• 1:02:20
  developed
• 1:02:21
  and
• 1:02:21
  it's
• 1:02:21
  intact.
• 1:02:22
  Well,
• 1:02:22
  it's
• 1:02:23
  our
• 1:02:23
  nature
• 1:02:23
  to
• 1:02:24
  grow.
• 1:02:24
  So
• 1:02:24
  what
• 1:02:24
  happens
• 1:02:25
  is
• 1:02:25
  we
• 1:02:25
  see
• 1:02:25
  that
• 1:02:26
  somebody
• 1:02:26
  who's
• 1:02:26
  in
• 1:02:27
  that
• 1:02:27
  and
• 1:02:27
  has
• 1:02:27
  accomplished
• 1:02:28
  those
• 1:02:28
  tasks
• 1:02:29
  now
• 1:02:30
  starts
• 1:02:30
  to
• 1:02:30
  have
• 1:02:30
  some
• 1:02:31
  questions
• 1:02:31
  of
• 1:02:31
  their
• 1:02:32
  own
• 1:02:33
  that
• 1:02:33
  they
• 1:02:33
  want
• 1:02:33
  to
• 1:02:33
  ask,
• 1:02:34
  some
• 1:02:34
  inquiries
• 1:02:35
  that
• 1:02:35
  they
• 1:02:35
  want
• 1:02:35
  to
• 1:02:35
  discover
• 1:02:36
  for
• 1:02:36
  themselves.
• 1:02:36
  They
• 1:02:37
  don't
• 1:02:37
  want
• 1:02:37
  simply
• 1:02:38
  a
• 1:02:39
  set
• 1:02:39
  of
• 1:02:39
  givens.
• 1:02:40
  They
• 1:02:40
  want
• 1:02:40
  to
• 1:02:40
  be
• 1:02:41
  able
• 1:02:41
  to
• 1:02:41
  explore
• 1:02:41
  and
• 1:02:41
  take
• 1:02:42
  a
• 1:02:42
  journey
• 1:02:42
  that's
• 1:02:42
  unique
• 1:02:43
  to
• 1:02:43
  their
• 1:02:43
  life.
• 1:02:44
  And
• 1:02:44
  then
• 1:02:44
  what
• 1:02:44
  I
• 1:02:45
  heard
• 1:02:45
  you
• 1:02:45
  say,
• 1:02:45
  Roger,
• 1:02:46
  is
• 1:02:46
  that
• 1:02:46
  can
• 1:02:47
  be
• 1:02:47
  a
• 1:02:47
  journey
• 1:02:47
  that
• 1:02:48
  happens
• 1:02:48
  within
• 1:02:48
  the
• 1:02:48
  Christian
• 1:02:49
  tradition.
• 1:02:50
  That
• 1:02:50
  can
• 1:02:50
  be
• 1:02:50
  a
• 1:02:50
  journey
• 1:02:51
  that
• 1:02:51
  can
• 1:02:51
  happen
• 1:02:52
  within
• 1:02:52
  the
• 1:02:52
  Buddhist
• 1:02:53
  tradition,
• 1:02:54
  but
• 1:02:54
  it's
• 1:02:54
  informed
• 1:02:55
  by
• 1:02:56
  later
• 1:02:57
  technologies
• 1:02:58
  like
• 1:02:58
  psychology.
• 1:02:58
  A
• 1:02:59
  lot
• 1:02:59
  of
• 1:02:59
  people
• 1:02:59
  are
• 1:02:59
  getting
• 1:03:00
  a
• 1:03:00
  lot
• 1:03:00
  of
• 1:03:00
  value
• 1:03:00
  out
• 1:03:01
  of,
• 1:03:01
  you
• 1:03:02
  know,
• 1:03:02
  the
• 1:03:02
  psychedelic
• 1:03:03
  experience.
• 1:03:03
  I
• 1:03:04
  think,
• 1:03:04
  you
• 1:03:04
  know,
• 1:03:05
  with
• 1:03:06
  some
• 1:03:06
  conditions.
• 1:03:07
  I
• 1:03:07
  think
• 1:03:07
  that's
• 1:03:07
  right.
• 1:03:08
  That
• 1:03:08
  can
• 1:03:08
  be
• 1:03:08
  really
• 1:03:09
  an
• 1:03:09
  opening
• 1:03:09
  experience.
• 1:03:10
  Some
• 1:03:10
  people.
• 1:03:11
  I
• 1:03:11
  read
• 1:03:11
  a
• 1:03:11
  book
• 1:03:11
  about
• 1:03:11
  a
• 1:03:12
  woman,
• 1:03:12
  it
• 1:03:12
  was
• 1:03:12
  really
• 1:03:12
  beautiful
• 1:03:13
  book,
• 1:03:13
  about
• 1:03:13
  this
• 1:03:13
  Dutch
• 1:03:14
  woman
• 1:03:15
  before
• 1:03:15
  the
• 1:03:15
  Second
• 1:03:15
  World
• 1:03:16
  War,
• 1:03:16
  who
• 1:03:16
  came
• 1:03:16
  from
• 1:03:17
  a
• 1:03:17
  very
• 1:03:17
  troubled
• 1:03:18
  and
• 1:03:18
  conflicted
• 1:03:19
  and
• 1:03:19
  painful
• 1:03:20
  family
• 1:03:21
  and
• 1:03:21
  met
• 1:03:21
  a
• 1:03:22
  Jungian
• 1:03:22
  therapist
• 1:03:23
  in
• 1:03:23
  Amsterdam,
• 1:03:24
  who
• 1:03:24
  became
• 1:03:24
  her
• 1:03:24
  therapist
• 1:03:25
  and
• 1:03:25
  also
• 1:03:25
  her
• 1:03:25
  lover.
• 1:03:26
  So
• 1:03:27
  because
• 1:03:27
  sometimes
• 1:03:28
  it's
• 1:03:28
  your
• 1:03:28
  therapist
• 1:03:29
  or
• 1:03:29
  your
• 1:03:30
  lover,
• 1:03:30
  these
• 1:03:30
  days,
• 1:03:31
  it
• 1:03:31
  has
• 1:03:31
  to
• 1:03:31
  be
• 1:03:31
  either
• 1:03:31
  your
• 1:03:31
  therapist
• 1:03:32
  or
• 1:03:32
  your
• 1:03:32
  lover.
• 1:03:32
  But
• 1:03:33
  in
• 1:03:33
  her
• 1:03:33
  case,
• 1:03:33
  it
• 1:03:33
  was
• 1:03:33
  both.
• 1:03:34
  And
• 1:03:34
  her
• 1:03:35
  life
• 1:03:35
  just
• 1:03:35
  unfolded
• 1:03:36
  incredibly
• 1:03:37
  from
• 1:03:37
  this
• 1:03:38
  encounter.
• 1:03:39
  The
• 1:03:39
  healing
• 1:03:39
  it
• 1:03:40
  took
• 1:03:40
  place,
• 1:03:40
  the.
• 1:03:41
  And
• 1:03:41
  she
• 1:03:42
  moved
• 1:03:42
  from
• 1:03:42
  kind
• 1:03:42
  of
• 1:03:43
  healing
• 1:03:43
  herself
• 1:03:44
  in
• 1:03:44
  the
• 1:03:44
  psychological
• 1:03:45
  emotional
• 1:03:45
  domain
• 1:03:46
  into
• 1:03:46
  opening
• 1:03:47
  to
• 1:03:47
  a
• 1:03:48
  genuine
• 1:03:48
  spirituality.
• 1:03:49
  And
• 1:03:49
  she
• 1:03:49
  developed
• 1:03:50
  very
• 1:03:50
  spontaneously,
• 1:03:51
  a
• 1:03:51
  practice
• 1:03:51
  of
• 1:03:51
  prayer,
• 1:03:52
  John,
• 1:03:53
  where
• 1:03:53
  she
• 1:03:53
  would
• 1:03:53
  sit
• 1:03:53
  on
• 1:03:54
  the
• 1:03:54
  bathroom
• 1:03:54
  floor
• 1:03:55
  and
• 1:03:55
  then
• 1:03:55
  she
• 1:03:56
  just
• 1:03:56
  would
• 1:03:56
  follow
• 1:03:57
  herself
• 1:03:57
  and
• 1:03:57
  her
• 1:03:57
  head
• 1:03:58
  would
• 1:03:58
  end
• 1:03:58
  up
• 1:03:59
  in
• 1:03:59
  the
• 1:03:59
  position
• 1:04:00
  of
• 1:04:00
  prayer.
• 1:04:00
  And
• 1:04:01
  she
• 1:04:01
  didn't
• 1:04:01
  like
• 1:04:02
  it.
• 1:04:03
  She
• 1:04:03
  wasn't
• 1:04:03
  happy
• 1:04:04
  about
• 1:04:04
  it.
• 1:04:05
  You
• 1:04:05
  know,
• 1:04:05
  she
• 1:04:05
  was
• 1:04:05
  like.
• 1:04:05
  It
• 1:04:06
  felt
• 1:04:06
  like
• 1:04:06
  a
• 1:04:06
  cliche
• 1:04:07
  and
• 1:04:08
  she
• 1:04:08
  wasn't
• 1:04:08
  what
• 1:04:08
  she
• 1:04:08
  wanted,
• 1:04:09
  but
• 1:04:09
  she.
• 1:04:09
  She
• 1:04:09
  just
• 1:04:09
  went
• 1:04:10
  with
• 1:04:10
  it.
• 1:04:10
  And
• 1:04:11
  then
• 1:04:11
  pretty
• 1:04:11
  soon
• 1:04:12
  that
• 1:04:12
  practice
• 1:04:13
  also
• 1:04:13
  started
• 1:04:13
  to
• 1:04:13
  unfold.
• 1:04:14
  So
• 1:04:14
  that
• 1:04:14
  when
• 1:04:15
  she
• 1:04:15
  was
• 1:04:15
  Jewish,
• 1:04:15
  when
• 1:04:16
  the
• 1:04:16
  war
• 1:04:16
  came
• 1:04:16
  and
• 1:04:17
  when
• 1:04:17
  the
• 1:04:17
  oppression
• 1:04:17
  arose
• 1:04:18
  and
• 1:04:18
  when
• 1:04:18
  the
• 1:04:18
  genocide
• 1:04:19
  took
• 1:04:19
  place,
• 1:04:20
  she
• 1:04:20
  had
• 1:04:20
  an
• 1:04:21
  incredibly
• 1:04:22
  deep
• 1:04:22
  reservoir
• 1:04:23
  of
• 1:04:23
  a
• 1:04:23
  spiritual
• 1:04:24
  life
• 1:04:24
  that.
• 1:04:25
  And
• 1:04:25
  she
• 1:04:25
  died
• 1:04:25
  in.
• 1:04:26
  In
• 1:04:26
  Auschwitz.
• 1:04:27
  But
• 1:04:27
  there's
• 1:04:27
  a
• 1:04:27
  record
• 1:04:28
  of
• 1:04:28
  her.
• 1:04:29
  And
• 1:04:29
  she
• 1:04:29
  signed
• 1:04:30
  a
• 1:04:30
  postcard
• 1:04:30
  to
• 1:04:30
  a
• 1:04:31
  friend
• 1:04:31
  saying
• 1:04:32
  that
• 1:04:32
  when
• 1:04:32
  she
• 1:04:32
  left
• 1:04:33
  the
• 1:04:33
  holding
• 1:04:33
  area
• 1:04:34
  to
• 1:04:34
  go
• 1:04:34
  to
• 1:04:34
  Auschwitz,
• 1:04:35
  where
• 1:04:35
  she
• 1:04:35
  died
• 1:04:36
  some
• 1:04:36
  months
• 1:04:36
  later,
• 1:04:37
  she
• 1:04:37
  wrote
• 1:04:37
  on
• 1:04:37
  a
• 1:04:37
  postcard,
• 1:04:38
  we
• 1:04:38
  left
• 1:04:38
  the
• 1:04:38
  camp
• 1:04:39
  singing.
• 1:04:40
  You
• 1:04:41
  know,
• 1:04:41
  she
• 1:04:41
  had
• 1:04:41
  such
• 1:04:42
  a
• 1:04:42
  deep
• 1:04:42
  unfolding.
• 1:04:43
  So
• 1:04:44
  I
• 1:04:44
  think
• 1:04:44
  that
• 1:04:45
  that
• 1:04:45
  opportunity
• 1:04:47
  requires
• 1:04:48
  all
• 1:04:48
  the
• 1:04:48
  things
• 1:04:48
  that
• 1:04:49
  convention
• 1:04:49
  gives
• 1:04:50
  us,
• 1:04:50
  because
• 1:04:50
  if
• 1:04:50
  you're
• 1:04:51
  not
• 1:04:51
  stable,
• 1:04:52
  you
• 1:04:52
  know,
• 1:04:53
  you
• 1:04:53
  can
• 1:04:53
  get
• 1:04:53
  very
• 1:04:53
  lost
• 1:04:54
  in
• 1:04:54
  a
• 1:04:54
  spiritual
• 1:04:55
  journey
• 1:04:55
  without
• 1:04:55
  stability,
• 1:04:56
  without
• 1:04:56
  guidance,
• 1:04:57
  without
• 1:04:57
  predictability.
• 1:04:58
  If
• 1:04:59
  you
• 1:04:59
  don't
• 1:04:59
  have
• 1:04:59
  a
• 1:04:59
  good
• 1:04:59
  container,
• 1:05:00
  it
• 1:05:00
  can
• 1:05:00
  be
• 1:05:00
  quite
• 1:05:00
  confusing,
• 1:05:01
  and
• 1:05:01
  you
• 1:05:01
  can
• 1:05:01
  just
• 1:05:02
  end
• 1:05:02
  up
• 1:05:02
  kind
• 1:05:02
  of
• 1:05:02
  going
• 1:05:02
  in
• 1:05:03
  a
• 1:05:03
  circle
• 1:05:04
  around
• 1:05:04
  your
• 1:05:04
  own
• 1:05:05
  kind
• 1:05:05
  of
• 1:05:06
  ideas
• 1:05:07
  about
• 1:05:07
  what
• 1:05:07
  it
• 1:05:07
  is
• 1:05:07
  and
• 1:05:08
  never
• 1:05:08
  really
• 1:05:08
  get
• 1:05:08
  to
• 1:05:09
  break
• 1:05:09
  out
• 1:05:09
  into
• 1:05:09
  that
• 1:05:10
  open
• 1:05:10
  field
• 1:05:11
  in
• 1:05:11
  which
• 1:05:12
  you
• 1:05:12
  and
• 1:05:14
  it
• 1:05:14
  are
• 1:05:14
  one
• 1:05:15
  thing,
• 1:05:16
  you
• 1:05:16
  know,
• 1:05:16
  so
• 1:05:17
  really,
• 1:05:17
  to
• 1:05:17
  see
• 1:05:17
  that
• 1:05:18
  the
• 1:05:18
  earlier
• 1:05:18
  forms
• 1:05:19
  of
• 1:05:19
  religion
• 1:05:19
  as
• 1:05:20
  necessary
• 1:05:20
  to
• 1:05:21
  the
• 1:05:21
  later
• 1:05:22
  spiritual
• 1:05:22
  journey
• 1:05:23
  and
• 1:05:23
  how
• 1:05:23
  they
• 1:05:23
  relate
• 1:05:24
  to
• 1:05:24
  each
• 1:05:24
  other
• 1:05:24
  seems
• 1:05:24
  important
• 1:05:25
  to
• 1:05:25
  me
• 1:05:25
  too.
• 1:05:26
  Ken
• 1:05:26
  has
• 1:05:26
  absolutely
• 1:05:27
  helped
• 1:05:27
  me
• 1:05:27
  think
• 1:05:27
  about
• 1:05:28
  these
• 1:05:28
  things.
• 1:05:29
  Yeah,
• 1:05:29
  I
• 1:05:29
  was
• 1:05:30
  thinking
• 1:05:30
  about
• 1:05:30
  this
• 1:05:30
  the
• 1:05:31
  other
• 1:05:31
  day,
• 1:05:31
  and
• 1:05:31
  I
• 1:05:31
  was,
• 1:05:31
  of
• 1:05:31
  course,
• 1:05:31
  I
• 1:05:32
  was
• 1:05:32
  reading
• 1:05:32
  Hamid's
• 1:05:33
  work
• 1:05:33
  again
• 1:05:34
  and
• 1:05:34
  talking
• 1:05:34
  about
• 1:05:34
  the
• 1:05:35
  non
• 1:05:35
  conceptual,
• 1:05:36
  you
• 1:05:36
  know,
• 1:05:36
  needed
• 1:05:36
  to
• 1:05:36
  displace
• 1:05:37
  true
• 1:05:37
  nature.
• 1:05:37
  It's
• 1:05:38
  like
• 1:05:38
  beyond
• 1:05:38
  thoughts,
• 1:05:39
  beyond
• 1:05:39
  this,
• 1:05:40
  that
• 1:05:40
  beyond
• 1:05:41
  non
• 1:05:41
  conceptual
• 1:05:42
  is
• 1:05:42
  a
• 1:05:42
  concept,
• 1:05:42
  you
• 1:05:42
  know,
• 1:05:43
  it's
• 1:05:43
  beyond
• 1:05:44
  all
• 1:05:44
  that.
• 1:05:44
  But
• 1:05:44
  when
• 1:05:45
  you
• 1:05:45
  have
• 1:05:45
  that
• 1:05:45
  sort
• 1:05:45
  of
• 1:05:46
  experience
• 1:05:47
  doesn't
• 1:05:47
  mean
• 1:05:48
  that
• 1:05:48
  you
• 1:05:48
  have
• 1:05:48
  to
• 1:05:49
  abandon
• 1:05:50
  your
• 1:05:51
  sangha
• 1:05:52
  or
• 1:05:52
  your
• 1:05:52
  tradition
• 1:05:53
  or
• 1:05:53
  your
• 1:05:53
  people.
• 1:05:53
  You
• 1:05:54
  don't
• 1:05:54
  get
• 1:05:54
  up,
• 1:05:54
  stand
• 1:05:54
  up
• 1:05:55
  in
• 1:05:55
  church
• 1:05:55
  that
• 1:05:55
  you're
• 1:05:55
  all
• 1:05:55
  full
• 1:05:55
  of
• 1:05:56
  shit.
• 1:05:56
  This
• 1:05:56
  stuff
• 1:05:57
  is
• 1:05:57
  not,
• 1:05:57
  you
• 1:05:57
  know,
• 1:05:57
  God
• 1:05:57
  is
• 1:05:58
  not
• 1:05:58
  any
• 1:05:58
  of
• 1:05:58
  that,
• 1:05:58
  you
• 1:05:58
  know,
• 1:05:59
  and
• 1:05:59
  this
• 1:05:59
  doesn't
• 1:06:00
  work
• 1:06:00
  very
• 1:06:00
  well.
• 1:06:01
  But
• 1:06:01
  you
• 1:06:01
  can
• 1:06:01
  go
• 1:06:02
  back
• 1:06:02
  and
• 1:06:02
  I
• 1:06:02
  think
• 1:06:03
  the
• 1:06:03
  stories
• 1:06:03
  themselves,
• 1:06:03
  as
• 1:06:04
  you're
• 1:06:04
  saying,
• 1:06:04
  they're
• 1:06:04
  stepping
• 1:06:05
  stones,
• 1:06:05
  but
• 1:06:06
  you
• 1:06:06
  can
• 1:06:06
  come
• 1:06:06
  back
• 1:06:06
  and
• 1:06:06
  address
• 1:06:07
  them
• 1:06:07
  in
• 1:06:08
  a
• 1:06:08
  translucent
• 1:06:08
  way
• 1:06:09
  where
• 1:06:09
  you're
• 1:06:10
  not
• 1:06:10
  trying
• 1:06:10
  to
• 1:06:11
  tell
• 1:06:11
  people,
• 1:06:11
  you
• 1:06:12
  know,
• 1:06:12
  their
• 1:06:12
  stories
• 1:06:13
  are
• 1:06:13
  not
• 1:06:13
  right,
• 1:06:13
  but
• 1:06:13
  you
• 1:06:14
  can
• 1:06:14
  use
• 1:06:14
  it.
• 1:06:14
  Go
• 1:06:15
  back
• 1:06:15
  into
• 1:06:15
  your.
• 1:06:15
  The
• 1:06:15
  world,
• 1:06:16
  if
• 1:06:16
  you
• 1:06:16
  will,
• 1:06:17
  and
• 1:06:17
  use
• 1:06:17
  the
• 1:06:17
  stories
• 1:06:18
  and
• 1:06:18
  the
• 1:06:18
  myths
• 1:06:19
  and
• 1:06:19
  all
• 1:06:19
  of
• 1:06:19
  the
• 1:06:19
  things
• 1:06:19
  that
• 1:06:19
  have
• 1:06:20
  been
• 1:06:20
  built
• 1:06:20
  up
• 1:06:20
  for
• 1:06:20
  a
• 1:06:20
  thousand
• 1:06:21
  years
• 1:06:21
  in
• 1:06:21
  a
• 1:06:22
  way
• 1:06:22
  that's
• 1:06:22
  different.
• 1:06:23
  You
• 1:06:23
  know,
• 1:06:23
  it's
• 1:06:23
  like
• 1:06:23
  chop
• 1:06:24
  wood
• 1:06:24
  Carry
• 1:06:24
  water
• 1:06:25
  before
• 1:06:25
  enlightenment,
• 1:06:25
  afterward,
• 1:06:26
  chop
• 1:06:26
  would
• 1:06:26
  carry
• 1:06:27
  water.
• 1:06:27
  I
• 1:06:27
  used
• 1:06:27
  to
• 1:06:28
  thought
• 1:06:28
  that
• 1:06:28
  mean
• 1:06:28
  there
• 1:06:28
  was
• 1:06:28
  no
• 1:06:29
  difference.
• 1:06:29
  But
• 1:06:29
  I
• 1:06:29
  think
• 1:06:30
  after
• 1:06:30
  that
• 1:06:31
  experience,
• 1:06:32
  you
• 1:06:32
  chop
• 1:06:32
  wood
• 1:06:32
  and
• 1:06:32
  carry
• 1:06:33
  water.
• 1:06:33
  But
• 1:06:33
  it's
• 1:06:33
  different.
• 1:06:34
  There's
• 1:06:34
  just
• 1:06:34
  a
• 1:06:34
  different
• 1:06:35
  quality
• 1:06:35
  to
• 1:06:35
  everything.
• 1:06:36
  And
• 1:06:37
  I
• 1:06:37
  was
• 1:06:37
  saying,
• 1:06:37
  well,
• 1:06:37
  yeah,
• 1:06:38
  you
• 1:06:38
  don't
• 1:06:38
  have
• 1:06:38
  to
• 1:06:38
  abandon
• 1:06:39
  and
• 1:06:39
  say,
• 1:06:39
  you
• 1:06:39
  know,
• 1:06:39
  Christianity
• 1:06:40
  just
• 1:06:40
  sucks
• 1:06:40
  or
• 1:06:40
  Judaism
• 1:06:41
  this
• 1:06:41
  and
• 1:06:41
  Islam.
• 1:06:42
  You
• 1:06:42
  can
• 1:06:42
  actually
• 1:06:42
  go
• 1:06:43
  back
• 1:06:43
  into
• 1:06:43
  that
• 1:06:44
  and
• 1:06:44
  bring
• 1:06:44
  that
• 1:06:45
  translucent
• 1:06:47
  presence
• 1:06:48
  and
• 1:06:48
  the
• 1:06:48
  wisdom
• 1:06:48
  that
• 1:06:49
  comes
• 1:06:49
  with
• 1:06:49
  that
• 1:06:49
  in
• 1:06:49
  a
• 1:06:49
  way
• 1:06:49
  that,
• 1:06:50
  that's
• 1:06:51
  compassionate.
• 1:06:51
  And
• 1:06:52
  you
• 1:06:52
  don't
• 1:06:52
  try
• 1:06:52
  to
• 1:06:53
  shove
• 1:06:53
  truths
• 1:06:54
  that
• 1:06:54
  people
• 1:06:54
  are
• 1:06:54
  not
• 1:06:55
  ready
• 1:06:55
  to
• 1:06:55
  hear
• 1:06:56
  or
• 1:06:56
  to
• 1:06:56
  experience
• 1:06:57
  yet
• 1:06:57
  down
• 1:06:58
  their
• 1:06:58
  throats.
• 1:06:58
  You
• 1:06:58
  just,
• 1:06:59
  you
• 1:06:59
  know,
• 1:06:59
  you're
• 1:07:00
  just
• 1:07:00
  there
• 1:07:00
  be
• 1:07:01
  with
• 1:07:01
  them
• 1:07:01
  and
• 1:07:01
  be
• 1:07:01
  with
• 1:07:02
  that,
• 1:07:02
  however
• 1:07:02
  that
• 1:07:03
  works
• 1:07:03
  out.
• 1:07:04
  But
• 1:07:04
  it
• 1:07:04
  is
• 1:07:04
  true
• 1:07:05
  that
• 1:07:05
  lots
• 1:07:05
  of
• 1:07:05
  times
• 1:07:05
  we
• 1:07:06
  have
• 1:07:06
  to
• 1:07:06
  push
• 1:07:06
  off
• 1:07:07
  of
• 1:07:07
  the
• 1:07:07
  what's
• 1:07:07
  not
• 1:07:08
  me.
• 1:07:08
  Oh,
• 1:07:09
  absolutely.
• 1:07:09
  To
• 1:07:09
  get
• 1:07:09
  to
• 1:07:10
  a
• 1:07:10
  place
• 1:07:10
  where
• 1:07:10
  we
• 1:07:10
  can
• 1:07:10
  do
• 1:07:11
  what
• 1:07:11
  you're
• 1:07:11
  describing.
• 1:07:12
  Right.
• 1:07:12
  That
• 1:07:12
  would
• 1:07:12
  be
• 1:07:12
  a
• 1:07:13
  big
• 1:07:13
  leap
• 1:07:13
  without
• 1:07:14
  doing
• 1:07:14
  the
• 1:07:15
  push.
• 1:07:15
  But
• 1:07:15
  yeah,
• 1:07:15
  I
• 1:07:15
  get
• 1:07:15
  that.
• 1:07:16
  Yeah.
• 1:07:16
  Get
• 1:07:16
  rid
• 1:07:17
  of
• 1:07:17
  that
• 1:07:17
  thing.
• 1:07:18
  Yeah,
• 1:07:19
  I
• 1:07:19
  did.
• 1:07:19
  I
• 1:07:19
  definitely.
• 1:07:20
  The
• 1:07:20
  push.
• 1:07:21
  If
• 1:07:21
  you
• 1:07:21
  guys
• 1:07:21
  would
• 1:07:21
  indulge
• 1:07:22
  me
• 1:07:22
  for
• 1:07:22
  just
• 1:07:22
  a
• 1:07:22
  moment.
• 1:07:22
  I
• 1:07:23
  don't,
• 1:07:23
  I
• 1:07:23
  don't
• 1:07:23
  want
• 1:07:23
  to
• 1:07:23
  finish
• 1:07:24
  the
• 1:07:24
  call
• 1:07:24
  without
• 1:07:24
  acknowledging
• 1:07:25
  what
• 1:07:26
  a
• 1:07:26
  pleasure
• 1:07:26
  and
• 1:07:27
  an
• 1:07:27
  honor
• 1:07:27
  it's
• 1:07:27
  been
• 1:07:28
  for
• 1:07:28
  Gabe
• 1:07:28
  to
• 1:07:28
  be
• 1:07:28
  my
• 1:07:29
  student.
• 1:07:30
  You
• 1:07:30
  know,
• 1:07:30
  he's
• 1:07:31
  given
• 1:07:31
  me
• 1:07:32
  a
• 1:07:32
  lot
• 1:07:32
  of
• 1:07:32
  accolades
• 1:07:33
  here
• 1:07:33
  on
• 1:07:33
  this
• 1:07:33
  call,
• 1:07:33
  but
• 1:07:34
  wow,
• 1:07:35
  what
• 1:07:36
  a
• 1:07:36
  privilege
• 1:07:36
  to
• 1:07:37
  be
• 1:07:37
  with
• 1:07:37
  someone
• 1:07:37
  who's
• 1:07:37
  so
• 1:07:38
  open
• 1:07:38
  to
• 1:07:39
  his
• 1:07:39
  own
• 1:07:40
  awakening
• 1:07:41
  and
• 1:07:42
  to
• 1:07:42
  his
• 1:07:42
  own
• 1:07:42
  growing
• 1:07:43
  up
• 1:07:43
  that
• 1:07:43
  I
• 1:07:44
  can,
• 1:07:45
  you
• 1:07:45
  know,
• 1:07:45
  I
• 1:07:45
  can
• 1:07:46
  meet
• 1:07:46
  someone
• 1:07:46
  in
• 1:07:46
  that
• 1:07:47
  kind
• 1:07:47
  of
• 1:07:47
  intimacy.
• 1:07:49
  How,
• 1:07:49
  how
• 1:07:49
  beautiful
• 1:07:50
  and
• 1:07:50
  profound
• 1:07:50
  is
• 1:07:50
  that?
• 1:07:51
  That
• 1:07:51
  I
• 1:07:51
  can
• 1:07:52
  offer
• 1:07:52
  him
• 1:07:53
  perspectives
• 1:07:53
  that
• 1:07:53
  he
• 1:07:53
  finds
• 1:07:54
  useful,
• 1:07:55
  that
• 1:07:55
  I
• 1:07:55
  can
• 1:07:55
  occasionally
• 1:07:56
  challenge
• 1:07:57
  him
• 1:07:57
  out
• 1:07:57
  of
• 1:07:57
  certain
• 1:07:58
  kinds
• 1:07:58
  of
• 1:07:58
  habits
• 1:07:59
  and
• 1:07:59
  he
• 1:07:59
  doesn't
• 1:07:59
  freak
• 1:08:00
  out
• 1:08:00
  and
• 1:08:00
  make
• 1:08:01
  me
• 1:08:01
  bad
• 1:08:01
  and
• 1:08:01
  wrong.
• 1:08:02
  And
• 1:08:02
  I
• 1:08:03
  can
• 1:08:03
  enjoy
• 1:08:03
  watching
• 1:08:04
  him
• 1:08:05
  become
• 1:08:06
  the
• 1:08:06
  more
• 1:08:06
  interesting
• 1:08:07
  person
• 1:08:07
  between
• 1:08:07
  the
• 1:08:08
  two
• 1:08:08
  of
• 1:08:08
  us
• 1:08:08
  on
• 1:08:08
  the
• 1:08:08
  call.
• 1:08:09
  Like,
• 1:08:09
  what
• 1:08:10
  an
• 1:08:10
  incredible
• 1:08:10
  thing
• 1:08:11
  for
• 1:08:11
  me
• 1:08:11
  to
• 1:08:11
  get
• 1:08:11
  to
• 1:08:11
  experience,
• 1:08:12
  you
• 1:08:12
  know,
• 1:08:12
  so
• 1:08:13
  the,
• 1:08:14
  this
• 1:08:14
  isn't
• 1:08:14
  related
• 1:08:14
  to
• 1:08:15
  anything
• 1:08:15
  other
• 1:08:15
  than
• 1:08:16
  the
• 1:08:16
  teacher
• 1:08:16
  student
• 1:08:17
  relationship
• 1:08:17
  cuts
• 1:08:18
  both
• 1:08:18
  ways.
• 1:08:18
  And
• 1:08:18
  I
• 1:08:18
  didn't
• 1:08:19
  say
• 1:08:19
  it
• 1:08:19
  before,
• 1:08:19
  so
• 1:08:19
  I
• 1:08:20
  want
• 1:08:20
  to
• 1:08:20
  say
• 1:08:20
  it
• 1:08:20
  now
• 1:08:20
  before.
• 1:08:21
  And
• 1:08:22
  it
• 1:08:22
  allows.
• 1:08:22
  So
• 1:08:23
  a
• 1:08:23
  willing
• 1:08:24
  or
• 1:08:24
  receptive
• 1:08:25
  student
• 1:08:25
  allows
• 1:08:26
  aspects
• 1:08:27
  of
• 1:08:27
  you
• 1:08:27
  and
• 1:08:27
  capacities
• 1:08:28
  and
• 1:08:28
  gifts
• 1:08:29
  that
• 1:08:30
  you
• 1:08:30
  have
• 1:08:30
  to
• 1:08:31
  be
• 1:08:31
  expressed
• 1:08:32
  and
• 1:08:32
  given
• 1:08:33
  and
• 1:08:33
  come
• 1:08:33
  to
• 1:08:33
  fruition.
• 1:08:34
  So
• 1:08:34
  yeah,
• 1:08:35
  it's
• 1:08:35
  a
• 1:08:35
  beautiful
• 1:08:36
  two
• 1:08:36
  way
• 1:08:37
  gift
• 1:08:37
  to
• 1:08:37
  be
• 1:08:38
  sure.
• 1:08:40
  Thank
• 1:08:40
  you,
• 1:08:40
  Roshi.
• 1:08:41
  And
• 1:08:41
  fully
• 1:08:41
  received.
• 1:08:42
  And
• 1:08:43
  it's
• 1:08:43
  just
• 1:08:43
  a
• 1:08:43
  complete
• 1:08:44
  pleasure.
• 1:08:44
  And
• 1:08:45
  Roger,
• 1:08:46
  to
• 1:08:46
  your
• 1:08:46
  question
• 1:08:46
  around.
• 1:08:47
  We
• 1:08:47
  don't
• 1:08:47
  ever
• 1:08:47
  have
• 1:08:48
  our
• 1:08:48
  rocky
• 1:08:48
  moments.
• 1:08:49
  Of
• 1:08:49
  course
• 1:08:49
  we
• 1:08:49
  do.
• 1:08:50
  Yeah.
• 1:08:54
  Yeah.
• 1:08:54
  When
• 1:08:55
  Roshi
• 1:08:55
  and
• 1:08:55
  I
• 1:08:55
  set
• 1:08:56
  out
• 1:08:56
  to
• 1:08:56
  write
• 1:08:56
  this
• 1:08:56
  book,
• 1:08:57
  one
• 1:08:57
  of
• 1:08:58
  the
• 1:08:58
  main
• 1:08:58
  things
• 1:08:58
  that
• 1:08:58
  we
• 1:08:59
  wanted
• 1:08:59
  to
• 1:08:59
  Say
• 1:08:59
  was
• 1:08:59
  that
• 1:08:59
  there's
• 1:09:00
  still
• 1:09:00
  value
• 1:09:01
  in
• 1:09:02
  these
• 1:09:02
  traditions.
• 1:09:04
  If
• 1:09:05
  we
• 1:09:05
  can
• 1:09:05
  just
• 1:09:05
  appreciate
• 1:09:06
  that
• 1:09:06
  something's
• 1:09:07
  been
• 1:09:07
  around
• 1:09:08
  for
• 1:09:08
  2,500
• 1:09:09
  years,
• 1:09:10
  there's
• 1:09:11
  just
• 1:09:11
  gotta
• 1:09:11
  be
• 1:09:11
  something
• 1:09:11
  of
• 1:09:12
  value
• 1:09:12
  in
• 1:09:12
  there,
• 1:09:13
  right?
• 1:09:13
  One
• 1:09:13
  would
• 1:09:14
  hope.
• 1:09:14
  Yeah,
• 1:09:15
  one
• 1:09:15
  would
• 1:09:15
  hope.
• 1:09:17
  And
• 1:09:18
  so,
• 1:09:18
  and
• 1:09:19
  I
• 1:09:19
  would
• 1:09:19
  say,
• 1:09:19
  and
• 1:09:20
  we're
• 1:09:20
  presencing
• 1:09:20
  the
• 1:09:20
  teacher
• 1:09:21
  student
• 1:09:21
  relationship,
• 1:09:22
  Zen
• 1:09:22
  in
• 1:09:23
  particular.
• 1:09:24
  I
• 1:09:24
  mean,
• 1:09:24
  that's
• 1:09:24
  the
• 1:09:24
  heart
• 1:09:24
  of
• 1:09:25
  the
• 1:09:25
  practice
• 1:09:26
  for
• 1:09:26
  me,
• 1:09:26
  in
• 1:09:26
  some
• 1:09:27
  way,
• 1:09:27
  insofar
• 1:09:27
  as
• 1:09:29
  there
• 1:09:29
  isn't
• 1:09:29
  any
• 1:09:30
  sutra
• 1:09:31
  per
• 1:09:31
  se,
• 1:09:31
  or
• 1:09:33
  story
• 1:09:34
  that
• 1:09:34
  is
• 1:09:34
  going
• 1:09:34
  to,
• 1:09:35
  quote,
• 1:09:35
  unquote,
• 1:09:36
  transmit
• 1:09:37
  anything.
• 1:09:37
  I
• 1:09:37
  mean,
• 1:09:37
  in
• 1:09:37
  my
• 1:09:38
  offer
• 1:09:38
  of
• 1:09:38
  pointing
• 1:09:38
  out
• 1:09:38
  and
• 1:09:39
  jostle
• 1:09:39
  my
• 1:09:39
  mind
• 1:09:39
  a
• 1:09:39
  little
• 1:09:40
  bit.
• 1:09:40
  But
• 1:09:42
  the
• 1:09:42
  transmission
• 1:09:43
  of
• 1:09:43
  the
• 1:09:43
  recognition
• 1:09:44
  of
• 1:09:45
  our
• 1:09:45
  true
• 1:09:45
  nature
• 1:09:46
  now
• 1:09:47
  happens
• 1:09:47
  here
• 1:09:48
  in
• 1:09:48
  this
• 1:09:49
  relationship,
• 1:09:49
  mind
• 1:09:50
  to
• 1:09:50
  mind,
• 1:09:50
  as
• 1:09:50
  we
• 1:09:50
  would
• 1:09:51
  say.
• 1:09:52
  And
• 1:09:53
  for
• 1:09:54
  me,
• 1:09:54
  that's
• 1:09:54
  the
• 1:09:54
  vow
• 1:09:55
  that's
• 1:09:56
  been
• 1:09:56
  passed
• 1:09:56
  on
• 1:09:58
  over
• 1:09:59
  thousands
• 1:09:59
  of
• 1:09:59
  years
• 1:10:00
  is
• 1:10:00
  there's
• 1:10:01
  something
• 1:10:01
  to
• 1:10:01
  be
• 1:10:01
  recognized.
• 1:10:02
  I
• 1:10:02
  recognized
• 1:10:03
  it.
• 1:10:03
  My
• 1:10:03
  teacher
• 1:10:04
  helped
• 1:10:04
  me
• 1:10:04
  recognize
• 1:10:04
  it.
• 1:10:05
  I'm
• 1:10:05
  gonna
• 1:10:05
  pass
• 1:10:05
  it
• 1:10:05
  on
• 1:10:05
  to
• 1:10:06
  you
• 1:10:06
  and
• 1:10:06
  help
• 1:10:06
  you
• 1:10:06
  recognize
• 1:10:07
  it.
• 1:10:07
  So
• 1:10:07
  just
• 1:10:08
  the
• 1:10:08
  beauty
• 1:10:08
  of
• 1:10:08
  that,
• 1:10:09
  to
• 1:10:09
  me,
• 1:10:09
  there's
• 1:10:09
  just
• 1:10:10
  something
• 1:10:10
  very
• 1:10:10
  moving
• 1:10:10
  around,
• 1:10:11
  that
• 1:10:11
  commitment
• 1:10:12
  and
• 1:10:12
  that
• 1:10:13
  this
• 1:10:14
  training
• 1:10:14
  comes
• 1:10:14
  from
• 1:10:14
  the
• 1:10:14
  east.
• 1:10:15
  And
• 1:10:15
  on
• 1:10:15
  the
• 1:10:15
  growing
• 1:10:16
  up
• 1:10:16
  side
• 1:10:16
  of
• 1:10:16
  the
• 1:10:16
  street,
• 1:10:17
  we're
• 1:10:17
  in
• 1:10:17
  the
• 1:10:17
  west
• 1:10:17
  now.
• 1:10:18
  The
• 1:10:18
  dharma
• 1:10:18
  is
• 1:10:19
  doing
• 1:10:19
  its
• 1:10:19
  thing,
• 1:10:20
  decided
• 1:10:21
  to
• 1:10:21
  migrate
• 1:10:21
  over
• 1:10:22
  here
• 1:10:22
  for
• 1:10:22
  whatever
• 1:10:22
  reason.
• 1:10:23
  And
• 1:10:23
  it's
• 1:10:24
  mixing
• 1:10:24
  and
• 1:10:25
  it's.
• 1:10:26
  And
• 1:10:26
  I
• 1:10:26
  would
• 1:10:26
  say
• 1:10:26
  Diane
• 1:10:27
  has
• 1:10:27
  done
• 1:10:28
  a.
• 1:10:29
  And
• 1:10:29
  continues
• 1:10:30
  to
• 1:10:30
  do
• 1:10:30
  a
• 1:10:30
  very
• 1:10:32
  interesting.
• 1:10:34
  Let's
• 1:10:34
  call
• 1:10:34
  it
• 1:10:34
  an
• 1:10:35
  experiment.
• 1:10:35
  We're
• 1:10:35
  doing
• 1:10:36
  an
• 1:10:36
  experiment
• 1:10:36
  where
• 1:10:36
  we're
• 1:10:37
  preserving
• 1:10:37
  the
• 1:10:37
  tradition
• 1:10:38
  and
• 1:10:39
  we're
• 1:10:39
  innovating
• 1:10:40
  and
• 1:10:41
  we're
• 1:10:42
  bringing
• 1:10:42
  in
• 1:10:42
  shadow
• 1:10:43
  work.
• 1:10:43
  We're
• 1:10:43
  bringing
• 1:10:44
  in
• 1:10:44
  emotional
• 1:10:45
  development
• 1:10:45
  work.
• 1:10:45
  We're
• 1:10:46
  bringing
• 1:10:46
  in.
• 1:10:46
  Hey,
• 1:10:47
  Gabe,
• 1:10:47
  your
• 1:10:48
  relationship
• 1:10:48
  to
• 1:10:48
  authority.
• 1:10:49
  Let's
• 1:10:49
  look
• 1:10:49
  at
• 1:10:50
  that.
• 1:10:51
  There's
• 1:10:51
  actually
• 1:10:51
  a
• 1:10:51
  certain
• 1:10:51
  way
• 1:10:52
  that
• 1:10:52
  you're
• 1:10:52
  relating
• 1:10:52
  to
• 1:10:52
  your
• 1:10:52
  own
• 1:10:53
  power
• 1:10:53
  that's
• 1:10:54
  just
• 1:10:54
  creating
• 1:10:55
  a
• 1:10:55
  separation
• 1:10:55
  and
• 1:10:56
  has
• 1:10:56
  a
• 1:10:56
  defensiveness
• 1:10:57
  in
• 1:10:57
  it
• 1:10:58
  that
• 1:10:58
  may
• 1:10:58
  be
• 1:10:59
  from
• 1:10:59
  the
• 1:10:59
  past.
• 1:10:59
  Let's
• 1:10:59
  look
• 1:11:00
  at
• 1:11:00
  that
• 1:11:00
  and
• 1:11:00
  see
• 1:11:00
  if
• 1:11:00
  we
• 1:11:01
  can
• 1:11:01
  break
• 1:11:01
  down
• 1:11:01
  a
• 1:11:01
  barrier
• 1:11:02
  and
• 1:11:02
  tie
• 1:11:02
  a
• 1:11:02
  knot.
• 1:11:02
  So
• 1:11:03
  just
• 1:11:03
  the
• 1:11:03
  coalescing
• 1:11:04
  of
• 1:11:04
  Eastern
• 1:11:05
  and
• 1:11:05
  Western
• 1:11:07
  traditions
• 1:11:08
  and
• 1:11:08
  intelligence
• 1:11:10
  does
• 1:11:10
  provide,
• 1:11:11
  at
• 1:11:11
  least
• 1:11:11
  in
• 1:11:11
  my
• 1:11:11
  experience,
• 1:11:12
  a
• 1:11:13
  very
• 1:11:13
  robust,
• 1:11:14
  enlivening,
• 1:11:15
  powerful
• 1:11:17
  experiment
• 1:11:17
  that
• 1:11:17
  I
• 1:11:17
  want
• 1:11:17
  to
• 1:11:18
  be
• 1:11:18
  a
• 1:11:18
  part
• 1:11:18
  of.
• 1:11:18
  And
• 1:11:18
  so
• 1:11:19
  just
• 1:11:19
  this
• 1:11:20
  offer,
• 1:11:20
  all
• 1:11:21
  of
• 1:11:21
  my
• 1:11:21
  praise
• 1:11:21
  to
• 1:11:21
  you,
• 1:11:21
  Roshi.
• 1:11:22
  And
• 1:11:22
  also
• 1:11:22
  what
• 1:11:22
  you've.
• 1:11:23
  The
• 1:11:23
  world
• 1:11:23
  that
• 1:11:24
  you've
• 1:11:24
  created
• 1:11:24
  for
• 1:11:24
  me,
• 1:11:26
  it's
• 1:11:26
  very
• 1:11:26
  cool.
• 1:11:29
  Now
• 1:11:29
  that
• 1:11:30
  I
• 1:11:30
  can
• 1:11:30
  get
• 1:11:30
  behind.
• 1:11:32
  Yeah,
• 1:11:32
  yeah,
• 1:11:33
  it's
• 1:11:33
  very
• 1:11:33
  cool.
• 1:11:34
  Cool.
• 1:11:34
  It's
• 1:11:35
  cool.
• 1:11:35
  Yeah,
• 1:11:35
  absolutely.
• 1:11:36
  Yeah.
• 1:11:37
  These
• 1:11:37
  traditional
• 1:11:37
  terms,
• 1:11:38
  right?
• 1:11:41
  And
• 1:11:41
  you're
• 1:11:42
  raising
• 1:11:42
  a
• 1:11:42
  very
• 1:11:43
  important
• 1:11:44
  topic
• 1:11:44
  here,
• 1:11:45
  Gabe,
• 1:11:45
  which
• 1:11:46
  really
• 1:11:46
  would
• 1:11:46
  like
• 1:11:47
  to
• 1:11:47
  have
• 1:11:47
  you
• 1:11:47
  speak
• 1:11:48
  to
• 1:11:48
  both
• 1:11:48
  of
• 1:11:49
  you.
• 1:11:49
  And
• 1:11:49
  that
• 1:11:50
  is
• 1:11:50
  you're
• 1:11:51
  speaking.
• 1:11:51
  You're
• 1:11:52
  pointing
• 1:11:52
  to
• 1:11:53
  the
• 1:11:53
  evolution
• 1:11:53
  of
• 1:11:53
  Buddhism
• 1:11:54
  as
• 1:11:54
  it
• 1:11:54
  comes
• 1:11:54
  to
• 1:11:55
  the
• 1:11:55
  West.
• 1:11:55
  And
• 1:11:55
  Buddhism
• 1:11:56
  has
• 1:11:57
  migrated
• 1:11:57
  across
• 1:11:58
  multiple
• 1:11:58
  cultures,
• 1:11:59
  and
• 1:11:59
  in
• 1:11:59
  every
• 1:12:00
  culture,
• 1:12:00
  it
• 1:12:01
  has
• 1:12:01
  both
• 1:12:02
  transmuted
• 1:12:02
  itself
• 1:12:03
  and
• 1:12:03
  transformed
• 1:12:04
  the
• 1:12:04
  culture.
• 1:12:06
  And
• 1:12:06
  we're
• 1:12:06
  still
• 1:12:06
  waiting
• 1:12:07
  to
• 1:12:07
  see
• 1:12:08
  how
• 1:12:08
  that
• 1:12:08
  will
• 1:12:09
  play
• 1:12:09
  out.
• 1:12:09
  But
• 1:12:10
  we
• 1:12:10
  can
• 1:12:10
  already
• 1:12:11
  discern
• 1:12:11
  some
• 1:12:12
  trends,
• 1:12:12
  and
• 1:12:12
  I'm
• 1:12:12
  going
• 1:12:12
  to
• 1:12:13
  name
• 1:12:13
  some
• 1:12:13
  and
• 1:12:13
  then
• 1:12:14
  ask
• 1:12:14
  you
• 1:12:14
  to
• 1:12:15
  name
• 1:12:15
  others
• 1:12:16
  and
• 1:12:16
  speak
• 1:12:17
  to
• 1:12:17
  what
• 1:12:17
  you
• 1:12:18
  see
• 1:12:18
  happening.
• 1:12:18
  For
• 1:12:19
  example,
• 1:12:19
  I
• 1:12:19
  see
• 1:12:20
  there's
• 1:12:20
  a
• 1:12:20
  tendency
• 1:12:21
  towards
• 1:12:21
  a
• 1:12:22
  more
• 1:12:22
  egalitarianism
• 1:12:23
  in
• 1:12:24
  Buddhism.
• 1:12:24
  You
• 1:12:24
  know,
• 1:12:24
  the
• 1:12:25
  teacher
• 1:12:25
  student
• 1:12:25
  relationship
• 1:12:26
  has
• 1:12:26
  real
• 1:12:27
  value,
• 1:12:27
  and
• 1:12:28
  there's
• 1:12:29
  a
• 1:12:29
  questioning
• 1:12:29
  of,
• 1:12:29
  you
• 1:12:30
  know,
• 1:12:30
  what
• 1:12:30
  the
• 1:12:30
  appropriate
• 1:12:31
  relationship
• 1:12:32
  is.
• 1:12:32
  There's
• 1:12:33
  a
• 1:12:33
  feminization.
• 1:12:34
  You
• 1:12:34
  know,
• 1:12:34
  Here
• 1:12:34
  you
• 1:12:35
  are,
• 1:12:35
  Diane.
• 1:12:36
  Yeah,
• 1:12:36
  how
• 1:12:36
  about
• 1:12:36
  that?
• 1:12:36
  Yeah.
• 1:12:37
  Japan
• 1:12:38
  didn't
• 1:12:38
  have
• 1:12:38
  a
• 1:12:38
  lot
• 1:12:38
  of
• 1:12:39
  Buddhist
• 1:12:39
  Zen
• 1:12:40
  teachers.
• 1:12:41
  Finn.
• 1:12:42
  Women
• 1:12:42
  teachers
• 1:12:42
  did
• 1:12:43
  it.
• 1:12:43
  I
• 1:12:43
  don't
• 1:12:43
  recall
• 1:12:44
  any.
• 1:12:44
  There's
• 1:12:45
  some
• 1:12:45
  in
• 1:12:45
  the
• 1:12:45
  history,
• 1:12:45
  but
• 1:12:45
  they
• 1:12:46
  haven't
• 1:12:46
  been.
• 1:12:47
  There's
• 1:12:47
  a
• 1:12:47
  really
• 1:12:47
  beautiful
• 1:12:48
  book
• 1:12:48
  called
• 1:12:48
  the
• 1:12:48
  Hidden
• 1:12:48
  Lamp,
• 1:12:49
  which
• 1:12:49
  is
• 1:12:49
  all
• 1:12:49
  about
• 1:12:50
  the
• 1:12:50
  women
• 1:12:50
  teachers
• 1:12:51
  that
• 1:12:51
  have
• 1:12:51
  fell
• 1:12:51
  out
• 1:12:52
  of.
• 1:12:52
  What
• 1:12:53
  a
• 1:12:53
  great
• 1:12:53
  title.
• 1:12:53
  Yeah,
• 1:12:53
  I
• 1:12:53
  like
• 1:12:53
  that.
• 1:12:54
  Yeah.
• 1:12:54
  Isn't
• 1:12:54
  that
• 1:12:55
  beautiful?
• 1:12:55
  Yeah.
• 1:12:56
  Yeah.
• 1:12:56
  And
• 1:12:56
  of
• 1:12:56
  course,
• 1:12:57
  this
• 1:12:57
  applies
• 1:12:57
  not
• 1:12:57
  just
• 1:12:58
  to
• 1:12:58
  Zen,
• 1:12:58
  but
• 1:12:58
  to
• 1:12:58
  Buddhism
• 1:12:59
  in
• 1:12:59
  general.
• 1:12:59
  Yeah,
• 1:13:00
  that's
• 1:13:00
  right.
• 1:13:01
  There's
• 1:13:01
  also
• 1:13:01
  a
• 1:13:02
  laicization.
• 1:13:02
  That
• 1:13:03
  is,
• 1:13:03
  there
• 1:13:03
  aren't
• 1:13:04
  as
• 1:13:04
  many
• 1:13:04
  monks
• 1:13:04
  and
• 1:13:05
  nuns,
• 1:13:05
  but
• 1:13:06
  there
• 1:13:06
  are
• 1:13:07
  increasing
• 1:13:08
  lay
• 1:13:08
  engagement.
• 1:13:09
  And
• 1:13:09
  then
• 1:13:10
  there's
• 1:13:10
  the.
• 1:13:10
  This
• 1:13:11
  interface,
• 1:13:11
  which
• 1:13:11
  you've
• 1:13:12
  both
• 1:13:12
  spoken
• 1:13:12
  to
• 1:13:13
  of
• 1:13:13
  the
• 1:13:13
  interface
• 1:13:14
  with
• 1:13:14
  contemporary
• 1:13:15
  knowledge,
• 1:13:15
  psychology,
• 1:13:16
  neuroscience,
• 1:13:18
  didactics,
• 1:13:19
  how
• 1:13:19
  to
• 1:13:19
  teach
• 1:13:19
  effectively.
• 1:13:21
  Yes.
• 1:13:21
  You
• 1:13:22
  know,
• 1:13:22
  let's
• 1:13:23
  face
• 1:13:23
  it,
• 1:13:23
  there
• 1:13:23
  are
• 1:13:24
  some
• 1:13:24
  very
• 1:13:24
  awake
• 1:13:25
  spiritual
• 1:13:25
  teachers
• 1:13:26
  who
• 1:13:26
  could
• 1:13:26
  use
• 1:13:27
  some
• 1:13:27
  real
• 1:13:27
  basic
• 1:13:28
  construction,
• 1:13:29
  how
• 1:13:29
  to
• 1:13:29
  teach.
• 1:13:32
  A
• 1:13:33
  little
• 1:13:33
  adult
• 1:13:33
  learning.
• 1:13:36
  That's
• 1:13:37
  advanced
• 1:13:37
  training.
• 1:13:38
  So.
• 1:13:39
  But
• 1:13:39
  I'd
• 1:13:40
  love
• 1:13:40
  to
• 1:13:40
  have
• 1:13:40
  you
• 1:13:41
  talk
• 1:13:41
  about
• 1:13:42
  the
• 1:13:42
  future.
• 1:13:43
  What
• 1:13:43
  are
• 1:13:43
  we
• 1:13:43
  likely
• 1:13:44
  to
• 1:13:44
  see
• 1:13:44
  and
• 1:13:44
  what
• 1:13:44
  do
• 1:13:45
  you
• 1:13:45
  hope
• 1:13:45
  we'll
• 1:13:45
  see?
• 1:13:47
  What
• 1:13:47
  I
• 1:13:47
  know
• 1:13:47
  that
• 1:13:48
  even
• 1:13:48
  with
• 1:13:48
  all
• 1:13:49
  of
• 1:13:49
  our
• 1:13:49
  innovation
• 1:13:51
  and
• 1:13:51
  all
• 1:13:51
  of
• 1:13:51
  our,
• 1:13:53
  you
• 1:13:53
  know,
• 1:13:53
  freeing
• 1:13:54
  of
• 1:13:54
  bodies
• 1:13:54
  and
• 1:13:55
  mind,
• 1:13:55
  that
• 1:13:55
  they're
• 1:13:56
  still
• 1:13:56
  suffering.
• 1:13:57
  And
• 1:13:57
  I
• 1:13:57
  think
• 1:13:58
  that
• 1:13:58
  Buddhist
• 1:13:58
  practice
• 1:13:59
  is
• 1:13:59
  just
• 1:13:59
  one
• 1:14:00
  of
• 1:14:00
  the
• 1:14:00
  most
• 1:14:01
  insanely
• 1:14:02
  genius
• 1:14:03
  ways
• 1:14:04
  to
• 1:14:04
  work
• 1:14:04
  with
• 1:14:05
  what
• 1:14:05
  it
• 1:14:05
  means
• 1:14:05
  to
• 1:14:06
  be
• 1:14:06
  a
• 1:14:06
  human
• 1:14:06
  being.
• 1:14:06
  So
• 1:14:07
  I
• 1:14:07
  hope
• 1:14:07
  that
• 1:14:07
  we
• 1:14:07
  can
• 1:14:08
  continue
• 1:14:08
  to
• 1:14:08
  see
• 1:14:09
  the
• 1:14:09
  practices
• 1:14:12
  take
• 1:14:12
  root
• 1:14:12
  in
• 1:14:12
  the
• 1:14:13
  west
• 1:14:14
  and
• 1:14:14
  that
• 1:14:15
  people
• 1:14:15
  can
• 1:14:15
  find
• 1:14:16
  solace
• 1:14:17
  through
• 1:14:17
  the
• 1:14:17
  practice.
• 1:14:17
  That's
• 1:14:18
  what
• 1:14:18
  my
• 1:14:18
  future
• 1:14:19
  version
• 1:14:19
  is,
• 1:14:20
  is
• 1:14:20
  that
• 1:14:20
  they
• 1:14:21
  continue
• 1:14:22
  and
• 1:14:22
  that
• 1:14:23
  I
• 1:14:23
  think
• 1:14:23
  the
• 1:14:23
  dharma
• 1:14:24
  is
• 1:14:24
  going
• 1:14:24
  to
• 1:14:24
  find
• 1:14:24
  its
• 1:14:24
  way
• 1:14:25
  in
• 1:14:25
  the
• 1:14:25
  West.
• 1:14:25
  It
• 1:14:25
  has
• 1:14:25
  an
• 1:14:26
  interesting
• 1:14:26
  way
• 1:14:26
  of
• 1:14:26
  adapting
• 1:14:27
  to
• 1:14:27
  these
• 1:14:27
  cultures,
• 1:14:28
  from
• 1:14:28
  India
• 1:14:28
  to
• 1:14:29
  Tibet
• 1:14:29
  to
• 1:14:30
  China
• 1:14:30
  to
• 1:14:30
  Japan
• 1:14:31
  to
• 1:14:31
  Europe.
• 1:14:32
  And
• 1:14:33
  so
• 1:14:33
  I
• 1:14:33
  trust.
• 1:14:33
  I
• 1:14:33
  trust
• 1:14:34
  that
• 1:14:34
  evolution.
• 1:14:34
  But
• 1:14:34
  I
• 1:14:35
  think
• 1:14:35
  that
• 1:14:35
  I
• 1:14:36
  would
• 1:14:36
  encourage
• 1:14:36
  people
• 1:14:37
  who
• 1:14:37
  do
• 1:14:37
  practice
• 1:14:38
  to.
• 1:14:38
  To
• 1:14:39
  really
• 1:14:39
  take
• 1:14:39
  that
• 1:14:40
  koan
• 1:14:40
  of
• 1:14:41
  preservation
• 1:14:41
  and
• 1:14:41
  innovation.
• 1:14:42
  Seriously,
• 1:14:43
  like
• 1:14:43
  Gabe
• 1:14:43
  was
• 1:14:44
  like,
• 1:14:44
  what
• 1:14:44
  do
• 1:14:44
  we
• 1:14:45
  really
• 1:14:45
  need
• 1:14:45
  to
• 1:14:45
  evolve
• 1:14:46
  in
• 1:14:46
  order
• 1:14:46
  for
• 1:14:47
  it
• 1:14:47
  to
• 1:14:47
  really
• 1:14:47
  take
• 1:14:47
  root
• 1:14:48
  here
• 1:14:48
  in
• 1:14:48
  our
• 1:14:48
  culture?
• 1:14:49
  And
• 1:14:49
  I
• 1:14:50
  don't
• 1:14:50
  know,
• 1:14:50
  you
• 1:14:50
  know,
• 1:14:50
  should
• 1:14:51
  we
• 1:14:51
  continue
• 1:14:51
  wearing
• 1:14:51
  robes
• 1:14:52
  when
• 1:14:52
  so
• 1:14:53
  many
• 1:14:53
  people
• 1:14:53
  are
• 1:14:53
  really
• 1:14:54
  lay
• 1:14:54
  people?
• 1:14:55
  For
• 1:14:55
  us,
• 1:14:56
  we
• 1:14:56
  continue
• 1:14:56
  wearing
• 1:14:57
  the
• 1:14:57
  robes
• 1:14:57
  because
• 1:14:57
  when
• 1:14:58
  we
• 1:14:58
  practice,
• 1:14:59
  we
• 1:14:59
  practice
• 1:15:00
  as
• 1:15:01
  most
• 1:15:01
  of
• 1:15:01
  us
• 1:15:01
  are
• 1:15:01
  from
• 1:15:02
  the
• 1:15:02
  Western
• 1:15:02
  world,
• 1:15:02
  although
• 1:15:03
  we,
• 1:15:03
  in
• 1:15:03
  our
• 1:15:03
  particular
• 1:15:04
  practice,
• 1:15:04
  we
• 1:15:04
  have
• 1:15:04
  a
• 1:15:05
  lot
• 1:15:05
  of
• 1:15:05
  Latinos
• 1:15:06
  from
• 1:15:06
  Latin
• 1:15:06
  America
• 1:15:06
  as
• 1:15:07
  well
• 1:15:07
  and
• 1:15:08
  people
• 1:15:08
  from
• 1:15:08
  Asia
• 1:15:09
  who
• 1:15:09
  practice
• 1:15:09
  with
• 1:15:09
  us.
• 1:15:10
  So
• 1:15:10
  we
• 1:15:10
  do
• 1:15:10
  have
• 1:15:11
  a
• 1:15:11
  highly
• 1:15:11
  cross
• 1:15:12
  cultural.
• 1:15:12
  But
• 1:15:12
  we're
• 1:15:13
  all
• 1:15:13
  integralists.
• 1:15:14
  We
• 1:15:14
  tend
• 1:15:15
  to,
• 1:15:15
  I
• 1:15:16
  mean,
• 1:15:16
  Ken's
• 1:15:16
  work
• 1:15:17
  has
• 1:15:17
  really.
• 1:15:18
  It's
• 1:15:18
  the
• 1:15:18
  gateway.
• 1:15:19
  In
• 1:15:19
  fact,
• 1:15:19
  we're
• 1:15:19
  going
• 1:15:19
  to
• 1:15:19
  put
• 1:15:20
  a.
• 1:15:20
  We're
• 1:15:21
  going
• 1:15:21
  to
• 1:15:21
  dedicate
• 1:15:22
  our
• 1:15:22
  Torii
• 1:15:22
  gate
• 1:15:23
  to
• 1:15:23
  Ken
• 1:15:23
  Wilber
• 1:15:24
  because
• 1:15:25
  he
• 1:15:25
  who
• 1:15:26
  enters
• 1:15:26
  here
• 1:15:26
  is
• 1:15:26
  probably
• 1:15:27
  read
• 1:15:27
  Ken
• 1:15:27
  is
• 1:15:27
  what
• 1:15:27
  I
• 1:15:28
  was
• 1:15:28
  going
• 1:15:28
  to
• 1:15:28
  say,
• 1:15:29
  you
• 1:15:29
  know,
• 1:15:32
  so
• 1:15:32
  I
• 1:15:33
  actually,
• 1:15:33
  I
• 1:15:33
  reached
• 1:15:34
  out
• 1:15:34
  to
• 1:15:34
  him
• 1:15:34
  because
• 1:15:35
  I
• 1:15:35
  know
• 1:15:35
  you're
• 1:15:35
  both
• 1:15:36
  very
• 1:15:36
  good
• 1:15:36
  friends
• 1:15:36
  at
• 1:15:37
  Ken's.
• 1:15:38
  Uh,
• 1:15:38
  I
• 1:15:38
  invited
• 1:15:38
  him
• 1:15:39
  to
• 1:15:39
  teach
• 1:15:39
  the
• 1:15:39
  first
• 1:15:40
  class
• 1:15:40
  of
• 1:15:40
  our
• 1:15:40
  11
• 1:15:41
  week
• 1:15:41
  course
• 1:15:41
  that
• 1:15:41
  we're
• 1:15:42
  offering
• 1:15:42
  in
• 1:15:42
  the
• 1:15:42
  fall.
• 1:15:42
  Gabe,
• 1:15:43
  nice
• 1:15:44
  to
• 1:15:44
  come
• 1:15:45
  in
• 1:15:45
  and
• 1:15:45
  just
• 1:15:45
  share
• 1:15:45
  with
• 1:15:45
  us
• 1:15:46
  why
• 1:15:46
  he
• 1:15:46
  thinks
• 1:15:46
  this
• 1:15:46
  waking
• 1:15:47
  up,
• 1:15:47
  growing
• 1:15:47
  up
• 1:15:47
  is
• 1:15:48
  so
• 1:15:48
  important.
• 1:15:49
  So
• 1:15:49
  I
• 1:15:49
  hope
• 1:15:49
  to
• 1:15:50
  see
• 1:15:50
  the
• 1:15:50
  continuation
• 1:15:51
  of
• 1:15:51
  the
• 1:15:51
  practice
• 1:15:51
  and
• 1:15:52
  I
• 1:15:52
  hope
• 1:15:52
  people
• 1:15:53
  will
• 1:15:53
  commit
• 1:15:54
  to
• 1:15:54
  the
• 1:15:54
  preservation
• 1:15:55
  and
• 1:15:55
  allow
• 1:15:55
  the
• 1:15:56
  genuineness
• 1:15:56
  of
• 1:15:57
  our
• 1:15:57
  culture
• 1:15:58
  to
• 1:15:58
  take.
• 1:15:58
  Its
• 1:15:58
  place
• 1:15:59
  and
• 1:15:59
  the
• 1:15:59
  innovation
• 1:16:00
  and
• 1:16:00
  how.
• 1:16:01
  We
• 1:16:01
  practice
• 1:16:01
  the
• 1:16:02
  innovation.
• 1:16:02
  Yeah,
• 1:16:03
  yeah,
• 1:16:03
  it's
• 1:16:03
  very
• 1:16:03
  important.
• 1:16:04
  I
• 1:16:04
  heard
• 1:16:04
  the
• 1:16:05
  other
• 1:16:05
  day
• 1:16:05
  that
• 1:16:05
  if
• 1:16:05
  Bodhi
• 1:16:06
  Dharma
• 1:16:06
  was
• 1:16:07
  with
• 1:16:07
  us,
• 1:16:07
  she
• 1:16:07
  would
• 1:16:07
  have
• 1:16:07
  a
• 1:16:07
  podcast.
• 1:16:09
  So,
• 1:16:09
  you
• 1:16:10
  know,
• 1:16:10
  I
• 1:16:10
  mean,
• 1:16:11
  here
• 1:16:11
  we
• 1:16:11
  are,
• 1:16:11
  I
• 1:16:12
  mean,
• 1:16:12
  different
• 1:16:12
  places
• 1:16:13
  on
• 1:16:13
  the
• 1:16:13
  planet
• 1:16:13
  having
• 1:16:14
  this
• 1:16:14
  conversation.
• 1:16:14
  It's
• 1:16:15
  quite
• 1:16:15
  amazing.
• 1:16:16
  Well,
• 1:16:16
  he
• 1:16:16
  established
• 1:16:17
  that
• 1:16:17
  Shaolin
• 1:16:17
  temple
• 1:16:18
  that's
• 1:16:18
  still
• 1:16:18
  training
• 1:16:18
  people
• 1:16:19
  in
• 1:16:19
  the
• 1:16:19
  martial
• 1:16:20
  arts.
• 1:16:20
  That's
• 1:16:20
  pretty
• 1:16:20
  impressive.
• 1:16:21
  Beautiful
• 1:16:21
  stuff.
• 1:16:22
  Yeah,
• 1:16:22
  still
• 1:16:22
  going
• 1:16:23
  on.
• 1:16:23
  Yeah,
• 1:16:23
  amazing.
• 1:16:24
  Okay,
• 1:16:25
  what
• 1:16:25
  about
• 1:16:25
  you?
• 1:16:25
  As
• 1:16:26
  you
• 1:16:26
  look
• 1:16:26
  to
• 1:16:27
  the
• 1:16:27
  future,
• 1:16:27
  what
• 1:16:27
  do
• 1:16:28
  you
• 1:16:28
  see
• 1:16:28
  and
• 1:16:28
  what
• 1:16:28
  do
• 1:16:28
  you
• 1:16:28
  hope
• 1:16:29
  for?
• 1:16:32
  I'm
• 1:16:33
  just
• 1:16:33
  going
• 1:16:33
  to
• 1:16:33
  repeat
• 1:16:33
  basically
• 1:16:34
  what
• 1:16:34
  I
• 1:16:34
  said.
• 1:16:35
  I've
• 1:16:36
  received
• 1:16:36
  so
• 1:16:36
  much
• 1:16:37
  from
• 1:16:37
  Diane
• 1:16:37
  Roshi
• 1:16:38
  and
• 1:16:39
  I
• 1:16:39
  know
• 1:16:39
  that
• 1:16:39
  there's
• 1:16:39
  some
• 1:16:40
  moments
• 1:16:42
  and
• 1:16:42
  I'm
• 1:16:42
  sure
• 1:16:42
  I
• 1:16:42
  think
• 1:16:42
  you'll
• 1:16:43
  be
• 1:16:43
  okay
• 1:16:43
  with
• 1:16:43
  me
• 1:16:44
  just
• 1:16:44
  saying
• 1:16:44
  sometimes
• 1:16:46
  maybe
• 1:16:46
  it's
• 1:16:46
  just
• 1:16:46
  a
• 1:16:46
  sense
• 1:16:47
  of
• 1:16:47
  like,
• 1:16:47
  are
• 1:16:47
  we
• 1:16:47
  innovating
• 1:16:48
  too
• 1:16:48
  much?
• 1:16:48
  Like
• 1:16:49
  there's
• 1:16:49
  just
• 1:16:49
  a
• 1:16:49
  sense
• 1:16:50
  of.
• 1:16:52
  Yeah,
• 1:16:53
  yeah.
• 1:16:54
  And
• 1:16:55
  my
• 1:16:55
  commitment
• 1:16:56
  to
• 1:16:56
  her.
• 1:16:56
  And
• 1:16:57
  I
• 1:16:57
  think
• 1:16:57
  I
• 1:16:57
  said
• 1:16:58
  this
• 1:16:58
  to
• 1:16:58
  her
• 1:16:58
  some
• 1:16:58
  years
• 1:16:59
  ago.
• 1:16:59
  I
• 1:16:59
  don't
• 1:16:59
  know
• 1:16:59
  if
• 1:16:59
  you
• 1:16:59
  remember,
• 1:16:59
  but
• 1:17:00
  I
• 1:17:00
  was
• 1:17:00
  just
• 1:17:00
  like,
• 1:17:01
  just
• 1:17:01
  do
• 1:17:02
  you.
• 1:17:04
  And.
• 1:17:06
  I'm
• 1:17:07
  receiving
• 1:17:07
  and
• 1:17:07
  trying
• 1:17:08
  to
• 1:17:08
  drink
• 1:17:08
  as
• 1:17:08
  much
• 1:17:09
  as
• 1:17:09
  I
• 1:17:09
  can.
• 1:17:10
  My
• 1:17:10
  intention
• 1:17:10
  is
• 1:17:10
  to
• 1:17:11
  preserve
• 1:17:11
  it.
• 1:17:12
  I
• 1:17:12
  don't
• 1:17:12
  know
• 1:17:12
  how
• 1:17:12
  much
• 1:17:13
  innovation
• 1:17:13
  is
• 1:17:13
  going
• 1:17:13
  to
• 1:17:13
  come
• 1:17:13
  out
• 1:17:14
  of
• 1:17:14
  me,
• 1:17:14
  but
• 1:17:14
  to
• 1:17:14
  preserve
• 1:17:15
  it
• 1:17:15
  would
• 1:17:16
  be.
• 1:17:16
  Well,
• 1:17:16
  some
• 1:17:16
  people
• 1:17:17
  function
• 1:17:17
  as
• 1:17:17
  anchors,
• 1:17:18
  and
• 1:17:18
  other
• 1:17:18
  people
• 1:17:18
  are
• 1:17:19
  sails.
• 1:17:19
  Yeah,
• 1:17:20
  that's
• 1:17:20
  true.
• 1:17:20
  And
• 1:17:21
  you
• 1:17:21
  probably
• 1:17:21
  have
• 1:17:21
  a
• 1:17:21
  little
• 1:17:21
  more
• 1:17:22
  of
• 1:17:22
  the
• 1:17:22
  sail
• 1:17:22
  function.
• 1:17:23
  And,
• 1:17:23
  you
• 1:17:23
  know,
• 1:17:23
  you're
• 1:17:24
  talking
• 1:17:24
  about
• 1:17:24
  the
• 1:17:24
  anchor.
• 1:17:25
  I
• 1:17:25
  mean,
• 1:17:25
  to
• 1:17:25
  have
• 1:17:26
  a
• 1:17:26
  ship
• 1:17:26
  that
• 1:17:26
  doesn't
• 1:17:27
  crash,
• 1:17:27
  you
• 1:17:27
  need
• 1:17:27
  both.
• 1:17:28
  Literally,
• 1:17:28
  I
• 1:17:29
  kind
• 1:17:29
  of
• 1:17:29
  conceive
• 1:17:30
  of
• 1:17:30
  it.
• 1:17:30
  Roger
• 1:17:31
  and
• 1:17:31
  John.
• 1:17:32
  So,
• 1:17:33
  like,
• 1:17:34
  a
• 1:17:34
  lot
• 1:17:34
  of
• 1:17:34
  innovation
• 1:17:35
  and
• 1:17:35
  preservation
• 1:17:36
  is
• 1:17:36
  taking
• 1:17:36
  place,
• 1:17:37
  and
• 1:17:37
  if
• 1:17:37
  I
• 1:17:38
  were
• 1:17:38
  just
• 1:17:38
  to
• 1:17:38
  simply
• 1:17:40
  sail
• 1:17:41
  that
• 1:17:41
  along,
• 1:17:42
  that
• 1:17:42
  would
• 1:17:42
  be
• 1:17:43
  fantastic,
• 1:17:43
  because
• 1:17:44
  I
• 1:17:44
  think
• 1:17:44
  that
• 1:17:44
  there
• 1:17:44
  are
• 1:17:44
  multiple
• 1:17:45
  forms
• 1:17:45
  of
• 1:17:45
  suffering.
• 1:17:46
  Suffering
• 1:17:46
  is
• 1:17:46
  always
• 1:17:47
  the
• 1:17:47
  case.
• 1:17:47
  I
• 1:17:47
  think
• 1:17:47
  it's
• 1:17:48
  an
• 1:17:48
  engine
• 1:17:48
  of
• 1:17:48
  our
• 1:17:49
  innovation
• 1:17:49
  as
• 1:17:50
  well
• 1:17:50
  as
• 1:17:50
  our
• 1:17:50
  preservation.
• 1:17:52
  So
• 1:17:52
  to
• 1:17:53
  not
• 1:17:54
  avail
• 1:17:54
  ourselves
• 1:17:55
  of
• 1:17:55
  the
• 1:17:55
  genius
• 1:17:56
  of
• 1:17:57
  what
• 1:17:57
  we've
• 1:17:57
  learned
• 1:17:58
  from
• 1:17:58
  working
• 1:17:58
  with
• 1:17:59
  the
• 1:17:59
  unconscious
• 1:18:00
  through
• 1:18:00
  shadow
• 1:18:00
  work
• 1:18:02
  and
• 1:18:02
  not
• 1:18:02
  pair
• 1:18:03
  that
• 1:18:03
  with
• 1:18:05
  the
• 1:18:05
  meditative
• 1:18:06
  contemplative
• 1:18:06
  technologies
• 1:18:07
  that
• 1:18:07
  just
• 1:18:07
  simply
• 1:18:08
  interact
• 1:18:09
  with
• 1:18:09
  a
• 1:18:09
  different
• 1:18:09
  band
• 1:18:10
  of
• 1:18:11
  our
• 1:18:11
  being
• 1:18:13
  makes
• 1:18:13
  no
• 1:18:13
  sense
• 1:18:13
  to
• 1:18:14
  me.
• 1:18:14
  So
• 1:18:15
  I
• 1:18:16
  want
• 1:18:16
  to
• 1:18:16
  preserve,
• 1:18:16
  or
• 1:18:17
  at
• 1:18:17
  least
• 1:18:17
  play
• 1:18:18
  with
• 1:18:18
  the
• 1:18:18
  experiment
• 1:18:19
  further
• 1:18:20
  and
• 1:18:20
  simply
• 1:18:20
  say,
• 1:18:21
  this
• 1:18:21
  is
• 1:18:21
  a
• 1:18:22
  worthy
• 1:18:22
  endeavor.
• 1:18:23
  Trying
• 1:18:23
  to
• 1:18:23
  integrate
• 1:18:24
  these
• 1:18:24
  wisdom
• 1:18:24
  traditions,
• 1:18:25
  east,
• 1:18:26
  west,
• 1:18:27
  north,
• 1:18:27
  south,
• 1:18:28
  whatever
• 1:18:28
  you
• 1:18:28
  want
• 1:18:28
  to,
• 1:18:29
  however
• 1:18:29
  you
• 1:18:30
  want
• 1:18:30
  to
• 1:18:30
  cut
• 1:18:30
  it,
• 1:18:30
  I
• 1:18:30
  think
• 1:18:30
  is
• 1:18:31
  really.
• 1:18:31
  And
• 1:18:31
  from
• 1:18:31
  an
• 1:18:31
  outside
• 1:18:32
  perspective,
• 1:18:32
  I
• 1:18:32
  would
• 1:18:33
  say
• 1:18:33
  that
• 1:18:33
  for
• 1:18:34
  the
• 1:18:34
  future,
• 1:18:34
  I
• 1:18:34
  hope
• 1:18:34
  that
• 1:18:36
  new
• 1:18:36
  generations,
• 1:18:37
  transmitted
• 1:18:38
  people
• 1:18:38
  would
• 1:18:38
  arise,
• 1:18:39
  you
• 1:18:39
  know,
• 1:18:39
  and
• 1:18:40
  keep
• 1:18:41
  it
• 1:18:41
  going.
• 1:18:42
  And
• 1:18:42
  I
• 1:18:42
  feel
• 1:18:42
  that
• 1:18:43
  in
• 1:18:43
  you,
• 1:18:43
  Gabe.
• 1:18:44
  You
• 1:18:44
  know,
• 1:18:44
  thank
• 1:18:44
  God.
• 1:18:45
  It's
• 1:18:45
  a
• 1:18:45
  good
• 1:18:45
  thing.
• 1:18:47
  Praise
• 1:18:47
  and
• 1:18:48
  blessing.
• 1:18:48
  John,
• 1:18:50
  as
• 1:18:50
  we
• 1:18:50
  come
• 1:18:50
  towards
• 1:18:51
  the
• 1:18:51
  end
• 1:18:51
  here.
• 1:18:51
  We've
• 1:18:51
  covered
• 1:18:52
  an
• 1:18:52
  awful
• 1:18:52
  lot,
• 1:18:53
  wonderful
• 1:18:53
  lot.
• 1:18:54
  Is
• 1:18:54
  there
• 1:18:55
  anything
• 1:18:55
  you'd
• 1:18:56
  like,
• 1:18:56
  either
• 1:18:56
  of
• 1:18:56
  you
• 1:18:57
  would
• 1:18:57
  like
• 1:18:57
  to
• 1:18:57
  say
• 1:18:57
  by
• 1:18:58
  that
• 1:18:58
  we
• 1:18:58
  haven't
• 1:18:59
  touched
• 1:18:59
  on?
• 1:19:01
  Well,
• 1:19:01
  I
• 1:19:01
  would
• 1:19:01
  like
• 1:19:01
  to
• 1:19:02
  thank
• 1:19:02
  both
• 1:19:02
  of
• 1:19:02
  you
• 1:19:03
  for
• 1:19:03
  doing
• 1:19:03
  your
• 1:19:04
  podcast.
• 1:19:05
  This
• 1:19:05
  deep
• 1:19:06
  transformation,
• 1:19:07
  the
• 1:19:07
  fact
• 1:19:07
  that
• 1:19:07
  you're
• 1:19:07
  doing
• 1:19:08
  it
• 1:19:08
  and
• 1:19:08
  you've
• 1:19:08
  been
• 1:19:08
  doing
• 1:19:08
  it
• 1:19:09
  now,
• 1:19:09
  how
• 1:19:09
  long?
• 1:19:09
  Three,
• 1:19:09
  four
• 1:19:10
  years
• 1:19:10
  or
• 1:19:10
  something.
• 1:19:11
  How
• 1:19:11
  long
• 1:19:11
  has
• 1:19:11
  it
• 1:19:11
  been?
• 1:19:12
  More
• 1:19:12
  than
• 1:19:12
  three
• 1:19:12
  years,
• 1:19:12
  I
• 1:19:13
  believe.
• 1:19:13
  And
• 1:19:13
  I'm
• 1:19:13
  not
• 1:19:13
  very
• 1:19:13
  linear,
• 1:19:14
  but
• 1:19:14
  I
• 1:19:14
  think
• 1:19:14
  that's
• 1:19:14
  okay.
• 1:19:15
  Yeah.
• 1:19:15
  Yeah.
• 1:19:16
  Because
• 1:19:16
  it's.
• 1:19:17
  Podcasting
• 1:19:18
  is
• 1:19:18
  really
• 1:19:19
  important
• 1:19:19
  that
• 1:19:19
  people
• 1:19:19
  have
• 1:19:20
  access
• 1:19:20
  to
• 1:19:20
  this,
• 1:19:21
  you
• 1:19:21
  know,
• 1:19:21
  and
• 1:19:21
  that
• 1:19:21
  you've
• 1:19:22
  found
• 1:19:22
  a
• 1:19:22
  way
• 1:19:22
  to
• 1:19:22
  make
• 1:19:23
  it
• 1:19:23
  work.
• 1:19:23
  And.
• 1:19:23
  And
• 1:19:23
  I
• 1:19:24
  heard
• 1:19:24
  that
• 1:19:24
  your
• 1:19:24
  membership,
• 1:19:25
  your
• 1:19:25
  followership
• 1:19:25
  has
• 1:19:25
  gotten
• 1:19:26
  really
• 1:19:26
  high,
• 1:19:27
  like
• 1:19:27
  hundreds
• 1:19:28
  of
• 1:19:28
  thousand
• 1:19:28
  now
• 1:19:29
  or
• 1:19:29
  something.
• 1:19:30
  Surprising.
• 1:19:31
  A
• 1:19:31
  lot
• 1:19:31
  of
• 1:19:31
  people
• 1:19:31
  interested
• 1:19:32
  in
• 1:19:32
  deep
• 1:19:32
  conversations.
• 1:19:33
  It's
• 1:19:34
  amazing.
• 1:19:34
  Yeah.
• 1:19:35
  Like
• 1:19:35
  180,000
• 1:19:36
  around
• 1:19:37
  in
• 1:19:37
  that.
• 1:19:37
  That
• 1:19:37
  thing.
• 1:19:38
  And
• 1:19:38
  so
• 1:19:38
  talking
• 1:19:38
  about
• 1:19:38
  this
• 1:19:39
  stuff,
• 1:19:39
  you
• 1:19:40
  know,
• 1:19:40
  we're
• 1:19:40
  not
• 1:19:40
  marketing
• 1:19:40
  geniuses,
• 1:19:41
  so
• 1:19:41
  there's
• 1:19:41
  other
• 1:19:42
  things
• 1:19:42
  that
• 1:19:42
  are
• 1:19:42
  happening
• 1:19:43
  with
• 1:19:44
  that.
• 1:19:44
  So.
• 1:19:45
  Yeah,
• 1:19:45
  no,
• 1:19:45
  I.
• 1:19:45
  I'm
• 1:19:46
  very
• 1:19:46
  proud
• 1:19:46
  of
• 1:19:46
  both
• 1:19:47
  of
• 1:19:47
  you
• 1:19:47
  for
• 1:19:47
  being
• 1:19:47
  aa
• 1:19:48
  brave
• 1:19:48
  enough
• 1:19:48
  to
• 1:19:48
  do
• 1:19:49
  it,
• 1:19:49
  and
• 1:19:49
  for
• 1:19:50
  just
• 1:19:50
  the
• 1:19:50
  amount
• 1:19:50
  of
• 1:19:51
  work
• 1:19:51
  that
• 1:19:51
  goes
• 1:19:51
  into
• 1:19:52
  reaching
• 1:19:53
  out
• 1:19:53
  to
• 1:19:53
  your
• 1:19:54
  potential
• 1:19:54
  guests
• 1:19:55
  and
• 1:19:55
  reading
• 1:19:55
  what
• 1:19:56
  you
• 1:19:56
  need
• 1:19:56
  to.
• 1:19:56
  About
• 1:19:57
  them.
• 1:19:57
  And
• 1:19:57
  then
• 1:19:58
  doing
• 1:19:58
  all
• 1:19:58
  the
• 1:19:58
  algorithm
• 1:19:59
  stuff
• 1:19:59
  and
• 1:19:59
  all
• 1:20:00
  the
• 1:20:00
  technology,
• 1:20:00
  it's.
• 1:20:01
  Yeah,
• 1:20:01
  I'm.
• 1:20:02
  I'm
• 1:20:02
  very
• 1:20:02
  impressed.
• 1:20:03
  We
• 1:20:03
  don't
• 1:20:04
  do
• 1:20:04
  that
• 1:20:04
  when
• 1:20:04
  people.
• 1:20:06
  We
• 1:20:06
  have
• 1:20:06
  wonderful
• 1:20:07
  people.
• 1:20:07
  But
• 1:20:07
  you
• 1:20:07
  found
• 1:20:08
  some
• 1:20:08
  people
• 1:20:08
  to
• 1:20:08
  do
• 1:20:08
  it
• 1:20:08
  for
• 1:20:09
  you.
• 1:20:09
  You
• 1:20:09
  know,
• 1:20:09
  that's
• 1:20:10
  great.
• 1:20:10
  But
• 1:20:11
  the
• 1:20:11
  people
• 1:20:11
  we
• 1:20:11
  get
• 1:20:11
  to
• 1:20:11
  hang
• 1:20:12
  out
• 1:20:12
  with
• 1:20:12
  and
• 1:20:13
  talk
• 1:20:13
  with
• 1:20:13
  and.
• 1:20:13
  Oh,
• 1:20:14
  it's
• 1:20:14
  amazing.
• 1:20:15
  Just
• 1:20:16
  beyond.
• 1:20:16
  I
• 1:20:17
  don't
• 1:20:17
  know.
• 1:20:17
  We
• 1:20:17
  talk
• 1:20:17
  about
• 1:20:18
  this
• 1:20:18
  a
• 1:20:18
  lot.
• 1:20:18
  We
• 1:20:18
  just
• 1:20:18
  look
• 1:20:19
  at
• 1:20:19
  each
• 1:20:19
  other,
• 1:20:19
  really.
• 1:20:20
  Wow.
• 1:20:20
  We're
• 1:20:21
  grateful.
• 1:20:21
  So
• 1:20:22
  thank
• 1:20:22
  you
• 1:20:22
  guys.
• 1:20:22
  Yeah.
• 1:20:23
  Yeah.
• 1:20:23
  Thank
• 1:20:23
  you
• 1:20:24
  both.
• 1:20:24
  Gabe,
• 1:20:24
  anything
• 1:20:25
  you'd
• 1:20:25
  like
• 1:20:25
  to
• 1:20:25
  add?
• 1:20:26
  Just
• 1:20:26
  gratitude.
• 1:20:27
  Thank
• 1:20:27
  you
• 1:20:27
  for.
• 1:20:28
  For
• 1:20:28
  bringing
• 1:20:28
  us
• 1:20:29
  on
• 1:20:29
  and
• 1:20:29
  engaging
• 1:20:30
  us
• 1:20:30
  in
• 1:20:30
  these
• 1:20:31
  conversations.
• 1:20:32
  The
• 1:20:32
  thing
• 1:20:32
  that
• 1:20:32
  I'll
• 1:20:32
  say,
• 1:20:32
  and
• 1:20:33
  this
• 1:20:33
  is
• 1:20:33
  just
• 1:20:33
  an
• 1:20:33
  appeal
• 1:20:33
  to
• 1:20:34
  my
• 1:20:34
  generation,
• 1:20:35
  those
• 1:20:35
  younger.
• 1:20:36
  There's
• 1:20:36
  a
• 1:20:36
  nice
• 1:20:37
  term.
• 1:20:38
  And
• 1:20:38
  Tristan
• 1:20:39
  Harris,
• 1:20:39
  an
• 1:20:40
  ethicist
• 1:20:41
  with
• 1:20:41
  respect
• 1:20:41
  to
• 1:20:41
  technology.
• 1:20:42
  A
• 1:20:43
  lot
• 1:20:43
  of
• 1:20:43
  the
• 1:20:43
  technology
• 1:20:43
  that
• 1:20:44
  we're
• 1:20:44
  swimming
• 1:20:44
  in
• 1:20:45
  is
• 1:20:45
  racing
• 1:20:46
  us
• 1:20:46
  to
• 1:20:46
  the
• 1:20:46
  bottom
• 1:20:46
  of
• 1:20:47
  our
• 1:20:47
  brainstem.
• 1:20:48
  And
• 1:20:48
  so
• 1:20:49
  when
• 1:20:49
  we
• 1:20:49
  talked
• 1:20:49
  about
• 1:20:50
  the
• 1:20:50
  ego
• 1:20:50
  being
• 1:20:50
  limited
• 1:20:51
  and
• 1:20:52
  our
• 1:20:52
  own
• 1:20:54
  potential
• 1:20:55
  evolutionary
• 1:20:56
  unfolding
• 1:20:57
  taking
• 1:20:57
  place,
• 1:20:58
  somewhat
• 1:20:58
  hijacked
• 1:20:59
  vis
• 1:20:59
  a
• 1:20:59
  vis
• 1:20:59
  the
• 1:21:00
  attention
• 1:21:00
  capture
• 1:21:00
  and
• 1:21:00
  all
• 1:21:00
  that,
• 1:21:01
  and
• 1:21:01
  it's
• 1:21:01
  a.
• 1:21:02
  I'm
• 1:21:02
  starting
• 1:21:03
  to
• 1:21:03
  encounter
• 1:21:04
  as
• 1:21:04
  a
• 1:21:04
  growing
• 1:21:04
  issue
• 1:21:05
  as
• 1:21:05
  I'm
• 1:21:05
  raising
• 1:21:05
  two
• 1:21:05
  daughters
• 1:21:06
  in
• 1:21:06
  this
• 1:21:06
  moment,
• 1:21:07
  very
• 1:21:07
  young
• 1:21:07
  daughters.
• 1:21:09
  And
• 1:21:09
  at
• 1:21:09
  that
• 1:21:10
  very
• 1:21:10
  basic
• 1:21:10
  level,
• 1:21:11
  just
• 1:21:11
  in
• 1:21:11
  terms
• 1:21:11
  of
• 1:21:12
  where
• 1:21:12
  we
• 1:21:12
  direct
• 1:21:13
  our
• 1:21:13
  attention
• 1:21:13
  has
• 1:21:14
  value.
• 1:21:15
  And
• 1:21:16
  I
• 1:21:17
  think
• 1:21:17
  people
• 1:21:17
  have
• 1:21:17
  to
• 1:21:17
  discern
• 1:21:19
  what
• 1:21:19
  is
• 1:21:19
  of
• 1:21:19
  value
• 1:21:19
  to
• 1:21:20
  them.
• 1:21:20
  But
• 1:21:20
  there
• 1:21:21
  is
• 1:21:21
  something
• 1:21:21
  around
• 1:21:21
  deliberately
• 1:21:22
  putting
• 1:21:22
  your
• 1:21:23
  attention
• 1:21:23
  somewhere
• 1:21:24
  and
• 1:21:24
  cultivating
• 1:21:25
  it
• 1:21:25
  away
• 1:21:26
  from
• 1:21:26
  these
• 1:21:26
  technologies
• 1:21:29
  to
• 1:21:29
  at
• 1:21:29
  least
• 1:21:29
  give
• 1:21:30
  yourself
• 1:21:30
  a
• 1:21:30
  chance
• 1:21:31
  to
• 1:21:32
  feel
• 1:21:32
  into
• 1:21:33
  that
• 1:21:33
  question
• 1:21:33
  of
• 1:21:34
  what
• 1:21:34
  is
• 1:21:34
  a
• 1:21:34
  value
• 1:21:34
  for
• 1:21:35
  you.
• 1:21:36
  And
• 1:21:36
  I
• 1:21:36
  know
• 1:21:36
  I
• 1:21:36
  found
• 1:21:37
  it
• 1:21:37
  here
• 1:21:37
  in
• 1:21:37
  this
• 1:21:37
  practice
• 1:21:38
  with
• 1:21:38
  Diane
• 1:21:39
  and
• 1:21:39
  our
• 1:21:39
  sangha.
• 1:21:40
  And
• 1:21:41
  it
• 1:21:41
  feels
• 1:21:41
  like
• 1:21:41
  a
• 1:21:41
  complete
• 1:21:42
  oasis
• 1:21:43
  in
• 1:21:43
  the
• 1:21:43
  midst
• 1:21:43
  of
• 1:21:44
  a
• 1:21:44
  lot
• 1:21:44
  of
• 1:21:44
  confusion
• 1:21:45
  and
• 1:21:46
  signals
• 1:21:46
  and
• 1:21:46
  noise.
• 1:21:47
  And
• 1:21:48
  so
• 1:21:48
  I'm
• 1:21:48
  very
• 1:21:48
  grateful,
• 1:21:48
  and
• 1:21:49
  I
• 1:21:50
  think
• 1:21:50
  it's
• 1:21:50
  important
• 1:21:51
  so
• 1:21:51
  far
• 1:21:51
  as
• 1:21:52
  our
• 1:21:52
  own
• 1:21:53
  unfolding
• 1:21:53
  to
• 1:21:54
  protect
• 1:21:54
  how
• 1:21:54
  we
• 1:21:55
  cultivate
• 1:21:55
  our
• 1:21:55
  attention.
• 1:21:56
  Yeah.
• 1:21:57
  Just
• 1:21:57
  wanted
• 1:21:57
  to.
• 1:21:58
  That's
• 1:21:58
  a
• 1:21:58
  whole
• 1:21:58
  nother
• 1:21:59
  conversation,
• 1:21:59
  Gabe.
• 1:22:00
  How
• 1:22:00
  do
• 1:22:00
  we
• 1:22:00
  deal
• 1:22:00
  with
• 1:22:01
  the
• 1:22:01
  practice
• 1:22:02
  and
• 1:22:02
  technology
• 1:22:03
  that's
• 1:22:03
  available
• 1:22:03
  today?
• 1:22:04
  It's
• 1:22:04
  like,
• 1:22:04
  yeah,
• 1:22:05
  wow,
• 1:22:05
  that's
• 1:22:06
  a
• 1:22:06
  big
• 1:22:06
  one.
• 1:22:06
  And
• 1:22:07
  maybe
• 1:22:07
  that's
• 1:22:07
  a
• 1:22:07
  beautiful
• 1:22:08
  point
• 1:22:08
  to
• 1:22:08
  end
• 1:22:08
  on
• 1:22:08
  that
• 1:22:09
  we
• 1:22:09
  are
• 1:22:09
  in
• 1:22:09
  what's
• 1:22:10
  called
• 1:22:10
  the
• 1:22:10
  attention
• 1:22:10
  economy,
• 1:22:11
  that
• 1:22:11
  there
• 1:22:11
  are
• 1:22:12
  billions
• 1:22:12
  of
• 1:22:12
  dollars
• 1:22:13
  being
• 1:22:13
  spent
• 1:22:14
  to
• 1:22:14
  try
• 1:22:14
  and
• 1:22:14
  capture
• 1:22:15
  our
• 1:22:15
  attention
• 1:22:15
  and
• 1:22:16
  use
• 1:22:16
  it
• 1:22:16
  for
• 1:22:17
  less
• 1:22:17
  than
• 1:22:17
  skillful
• 1:22:18
  means.
• 1:22:18
  And
• 1:22:19
  this
• 1:22:20
  practice
• 1:22:20
  of
• 1:22:20
  Zen
• 1:22:21
  and
• 1:22:21
  the
• 1:22:21
  other
• 1:22:21
  contemplative
• 1:22:22
  traditions
• 1:22:22
  have
• 1:22:23
  at
• 1:22:23
  their
• 1:22:23
  heart
• 1:22:24
  a
• 1:22:24
  training
• 1:22:24
  and
• 1:22:25
  attentional
• 1:22:25
  skills,
• 1:22:26
  a
• 1:22:26
  focusing
• 1:22:27
  on
• 1:22:27
  what
• 1:22:28
  truly
• 1:22:28
  matters
• 1:22:29
  for
• 1:22:29
  human
• 1:22:30
  life
• 1:22:31
  and
• 1:22:31
  cultivating
• 1:22:32
  the
• 1:22:32
  very
• 1:22:32
  skills
• 1:22:33
  that
• 1:22:33
  enable
• 1:22:34
  us
• 1:22:34
  to
• 1:22:34
  live
• 1:22:34
  as
• 1:22:34
  fully
• 1:22:35
  as
• 1:22:35
  possible.
• 1:22:36
  Thank
• 1:22:36
  you
• 1:22:36
  both
• 1:22:36
  for
• 1:22:37
  devoting
• 1:22:37
  your
• 1:22:38
  lives
• 1:22:38
  to
• 1:22:38
  this
• 1:22:38
  and
• 1:22:38
  thank
• 1:22:39
  you
• 1:22:39
  very
• 1:22:39
  much
• 1:22:39
  for
• 1:22:39
  this
• 1:22:40
  beautiful
• 1:22:40
  book,
• 1:22:41
  Waking
• 1:22:41
  up
• 1:22:41
  and
• 1:22:42
  Growing
• 1:22:42
  Up.
• 1:22:42
  Not
• 1:22:42
  only
• 1:22:43
  a
• 1:22:43
  wonderful
• 1:22:43
  distillation
• 1:22:44
  of
• 1:22:45
  Zen
• 1:22:45
  wisdom
• 1:22:46
  and
• 1:22:46
  contemporary
• 1:22:47
  ideas
• 1:22:48
  on
• 1:22:48
  psychology
• 1:22:48
  and
• 1:22:49
  development,
• 1:22:49
  but
• 1:22:50
  very
• 1:22:50
  accessible,
• 1:22:50
  easily
• 1:22:51
  readable,
• 1:22:51
  a
• 1:22:52
  beautiful
• 1:22:52
  gift
• 1:22:52
  to
• 1:22:52
  us
• 1:22:53
  all.
• 1:22:53
  So
• 1:22:53
  thank
• 1:22:54
  you
• 1:22:54
  so
• 1:22:54
  much.
• 1:22:55
  Thank
• 1:22:55
  you,
• 1:22:55
  Beth.
• 1:22:55
  Yeah.
• 1:22:57
  Bye,
• 1:22:57
  guys.
• 1:22:57
  Thank
• 1:22:58
  you.
• 1:22:59
  Thank
• 1:22:59
  you
• 1:23:00
  very
• 1:23:00
  much
• 1:23:00
  for
• 1:23:00
  being
• 1:23:01
  a
• 1:23:01
  part
• 1:23:01
  of
• 1:23:01
  this
• 1:23:01
  conversation.
• 1:23:02
  We
• 1:23:02
  hope
• 1:23:03
  that
• 1:23:03
  you
• 1:23:03
  were
• 1:23:03
  moved,
• 1:23:04
  as
• 1:23:04
  we
• 1:23:04
  are
• 1:23:05
  moved,
• 1:23:05
  being
• 1:23:05
  part
• 1:23:05
  of
• 1:23:05
  it
• 1:23:06
  ourselves.
• 1:23:06
  We'd
• 1:23:07
  also
• 1:23:07
  like
• 1:23:07
  to
• 1:23:07
  say
• 1:23:08
  that
• 1:23:08
  this
• 1:23:08
  is
• 1:23:08
  being
• 1:23:09
  funded
• 1:23:09
  by
• 1:23:09
  Roger,
• 1:23:10
  myself.
• 1:23:10
  It
• 1:23:10
  comes
• 1:23:11
  out
• 1:23:11
  of
• 1:23:11
  our
• 1:23:11
  pockets.
• 1:23:11
  So
• 1:23:12
  if
• 1:23:12
  you
• 1:23:12
  would
• 1:23:12
  like
• 1:23:12
  to
• 1:23:12
  help
• 1:23:13
  us
• 1:23:13
  to.
• 1:23:14
  Mainly
• 1:23:14
  to
• 1:23:14
  get
• 1:23:15
  this
• 1:23:15
  podcast
• 1:23:15
  out
• 1:23:15
  to
• 1:23:16
  more
• 1:23:16
  people
• 1:23:16
  because
• 1:23:16
  the
• 1:23:17
  bigger
• 1:23:17
  audience
• 1:23:17
  have.
• 1:23:17
  Which
• 1:23:18
  is
• 1:23:18
  steadily
• 1:23:18
  growing,
• 1:23:19
  but
• 1:23:19
  the
• 1:23:19
  more
• 1:23:19
  people
• 1:23:19
  we
• 1:23:20
  can
• 1:23:20
  reach
• 1:23:20
  in,
• 1:23:20
  the
• 1:23:20
  more
• 1:23:20
  marketing
• 1:23:21
  we
• 1:23:21
  can
• 1:23:21
  do,
• 1:23:22
  the
• 1:23:22
  more
• 1:23:22
  positive
• 1:23:23
  effect
• 1:23:23
  we
• 1:23:23
  can
• 1:23:23
  have
• 1:23:23
  on
• 1:23:24
  the
• 1:23:24
  world.
• 1:23:24
  So
• 1:23:24
  we've
• 1:23:25
  done
• 1:23:25
  a
• 1:23:25
  couple
• 1:23:25
  of
• 1:23:25
  ways,
• 1:23:25
  but
• 1:23:26
  we'd
• 1:23:26
  like
• 1:23:26
  you
• 1:23:26
  to
• 1:23:26
  buy
• 1:23:27
  us
• 1:23:27
  a
• 1:23:27
  cup
• 1:23:27
  of
• 1:23:27
  coffee.
• 1:23:28
  Very
• 1:23:28
  simple.
• 1:23:28
  And
• 1:23:29
  I
• 1:23:29
  do
• 1:23:29
  that
• 1:23:29
  with
• 1:23:29
  podcasts
• 1:23:30
  that
• 1:23:30
  I
• 1:23:31
  support
• 1:23:31
  and
• 1:23:32
  I
• 1:23:32
  find
• 1:23:32
  it's
• 1:23:32
  very
• 1:23:33
  satisfying.
• 1:23:33
  So
• 1:23:34
  thank
• 1:23:34
  you
• 1:23:34
  for
• 1:23:34
  your
• 1:23:34
  help.
• 1:23:35
  Thank
• 1:23:35
  you
• 1:23:35
  for
• 1:23:35
  your
• 1:23:35
  presence
• 1:23:36
  and
• 1:23:36
  thank
• 1:23:36
  you
• 1:23:36
  for
• 1:23:37
  all
• 1:23:37
  you
• 1:23:37
  are
• 1:23:37
  and
• 1:23:38
  all
• 1:23:38
  you
• 1:23:38
  do.
• 1:23:38
  We
• 1:23:38
  love
• 1:23:39
  you.