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Murders in Newport Beach and Sex on Hollywood Set · Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald

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  Speaker 2: Heather MacDonald has got the Juicy Scoop. When you're on
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  Speaker 2: the road, when you're on the go, Juicy Scoop is
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  Speaker 2: the show to know. She talks Hollywood tales for real life.
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  Speaker 3: Mr.
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  Speaker 2: Zegman's serial data and serial sister. You'll be addicted and addicted.
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  Speaker 3: Fast to the number one tabloid real life podcast.
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  Speaker 2: Listen in, listen up.
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  Speaker 3: Woo, woo.
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  Speaker 2: Heather MacDonald.
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  Speaker 3: Juicy Scoop.
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  Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. Well, I've got real
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  Speaker 2: juicy crimes happening because I have the prosecutor of those crimes,
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  Speaker 2: Matt Murphy, here in person. We went over them and
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  Speaker 2: he was actually the prosecutor of these crimes and you'll
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  Speaker 2: recognize him. He's done many consulting jobs on 2020 Dateline
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  Speaker 2: and now his new show on Hulu, Fatal Flaw. But first,
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  Speaker 2: let me just get into the hottest topics that happened
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  Speaker 2: over the weekend and Big Bravo Housewife news. Taylor Armstrong,
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  Speaker 2: originally a Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, recently seen on
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  Speaker 2: Girls Trip at Dorinda's house. She's joining Tamara on OC.
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  Speaker 2: This is the first crossover. This is kind of like
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  Speaker 2: a historic moment in Real Housewives because she came from
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  Speaker 2: Beverly Hills franchise and she is being plopped onto OC.
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  Speaker 2: So this could be really juicy. Like Cynthia Bailey lives
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  Speaker 2: here in LA.
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  Speaker 3: Okay.
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  Speaker 2: Could she ever be on Beverly Hills? There's things like
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  Speaker 2: that that I think might be kind of fun as
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  Speaker 2: we move forward and do different things with housewives. Also,
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  Speaker 2: super juicy news, kind of like a housewife situation, but
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  Speaker 2: Will Smith has spoken. After three months, he did a
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  Speaker 2: video and it was kind of smart the way he
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  Speaker 2: did it. I think it's a great thing to address
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  Speaker 2: when you've been canceled. Maybe don't give some other person
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  Speaker 2: this big interview opportunity to ask you the questions or whatever.
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  Speaker 2: to have full control. And he basically, like a housewife,
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  Speaker 2: sat down and answered questions from the fans. And so
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  Speaker 2: he'd say the question and answer them. He said that
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  Speaker 2: he obviously feels terrible. He hates hurting people. He has
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  Speaker 2: reached out to Chris Rock and Chris Rock said he's
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  Speaker 2: just not ready to talk yet. He feels really badly
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  Speaker 2: about Tony Rock because he and Tony were really good
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  Speaker 2: friends and he doesn't think that that relationship will ever
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  Speaker 2: be repaired. And then he said, a lot of you asked,
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  Speaker 2: did Jada tell me to do something? No, Jada never told,
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  Speaker 2: did not want me to do anything. So he covered
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  Speaker 2: Jada's ass. Now I'm like, okay, this obviously was a
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  Speaker 2: decision they made as a family, as a couple for
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  Speaker 2: him to do it this way, which like I said,
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  Speaker 2: I think it's a really great way to get your
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  Speaker 2: side out of it. You know, we see you speaking,
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  Speaker 2: but it's not done on like, you know, a 2020
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  Speaker 2: or something. But come on. Like, Jade has got to
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  Speaker 2: be a little bummed he's not on Red Table Talk.
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  Speaker 2: Because I don't really see a lot of people talking
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  Speaker 2: about Red Table Talk anymore. You know, people were super
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  Speaker 2: excited about the last couple years when she had Jordan
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  Speaker 2: who cheated with Tristan. You know, that was real juicy.
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  Speaker 2: She had Olivia Jade who got into USC as pretending
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  Speaker 2: to row there. You know, she had these kind of like, ooh,
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  Speaker 2: that's sort of, I haven't heard much buzz about the show. So,
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  Speaker 2: but I do think for Will, maybe not for Jada,
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  Speaker 2: for Will, this was the right thing to do. Um,
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  Speaker 2: so people are feeling, I think, very responsive to him
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  Speaker 2: in a positive way. We'll see. I don't know if
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  Speaker 2: he'll ever get to that status of the kind of
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  Speaker 2: movie star person he was. I definitely think he'll work again,
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  Speaker 2: but I just don't think he'll be that go-to guy
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  Speaker 2: like he has been for the last 10 years for
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  Speaker 2: like a blockbuster movie. Um, Oh, this is also really
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  Speaker 2: juicy in the movies. I went to the movie theater
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  Speaker 2: and I saw a preview of a movie called Don't
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  Speaker 2: Worry Darling. It is the only movie I'm excited to see.
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  Speaker 2: It's coming out in a few months. And this is
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  Speaker 2: the movie that Olivia Wilde directed and Harry Styles is in.
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  Speaker 2: And that's when they fell in love. One of the
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  Speaker 2: stars of that movie called Florence, I don't know how
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  Speaker 2: to pronounce her last name. It looks so juicy though.
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  Speaker 2: First of all, it's like shot in Palm Springs and
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  Speaker 2: in the sixties. And there's some secret thing that's happening
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  Speaker 2: with all these couples where the husbands work together. And
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  Speaker 2: I love a 1960s, uh, Palm Springs vibes already. I
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  Speaker 2: love it. And it's juicy. It looks a little swingery. Like,
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  Speaker 2: I don't know. It looks great. But Florence, apparently like
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  Speaker 2: a source close to Florence is saying that she is
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  Speaker 2: not happy, was not happy on set when the affair
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  Speaker 2: started happening between her director, Olivia Wilde and her co-star
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  Speaker 2: Harry Styles. Some people are like, well, God, did you
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  Speaker 2: want Harry Styles for yourself? No, I think it's not
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  Speaker 2: a cool thing when that happens on any movie set,
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  Speaker 2: because I think the director needs to have, you know,
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  Speaker 2: like an impartial view of all the players. And it's
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  Speaker 2: just the most important role on the film is really
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  Speaker 2: the director of the film. And I, so I don't
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  Speaker 2: think that she felt it was cool. And then she
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  Speaker 2: might've thought it took away from the vibe on set. One,
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  Speaker 2: one story that I always remember was Night at the Roxbury.
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  Speaker 4: Okay.
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  Speaker 2: That was Will Ferrell and Chris Kattan and they were
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  Speaker 2: best friends and they did this movie. At that time,
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  Speaker 2: it is out that he had a romantic affair, Chris Kattan,
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  Speaker 2: with the female director. And after that, I believe it
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  Speaker 2: was in Chris Kattan's book, but they were no longer
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  Speaker 2: as close, him and, he and Will, that they still
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  Speaker 2: did sketches together. They still worked at SNL. but that
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  Speaker 2: it really bothered Will that this happened on this movie
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  Speaker 2: that they were doing together. It just was not something
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  Speaker 2: he agreed with, I think professionally, morally, but really it's
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  Speaker 2: like a professional thing. And it was his good friend,
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  Speaker 2: and he didn't appreciate that his good friend pursued this
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  Speaker 2: relationship with the female director. So I think that's really
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  Speaker 2: the juicy part of it. I don't think it's, you know,
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  Speaker 2: if in fact this is true, or it could be
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  Speaker 2: that Olivia Wilde's person or the studio is throwing this
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  Speaker 2: story out so that people like me will talk about
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  Speaker 2: it and say, I'm dying to see this movie. Let's
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  Speaker 2: remember everybody, this movie's coming out in a few months.
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  Speaker 2: So you never know where these things really come from
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  Speaker 2: and how much truth they are, but it is kind
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  Speaker 2: of a juicy thing to discuss. Okay, you guys, now
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  Speaker 2: for my very juicy interview with Matt Murphy. Hello and
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: welcome to Juicy Scoop. Well, I'm very excited to Because
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  Speaker 2: I've seen you on a million shows. I'm talking to
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  Speaker 2: Matt Murphy. When you see his face, you're going to say, yes,
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  Speaker 2: I have seen him. Because all my Juicy Scoopers love
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  Speaker 2: Juicy Crimes. And you seem to cover a lot of them.
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  Speaker 2: But you are also a senior deputy DA for Orange County,
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  Speaker 2: which you're going to explain in a minute. But welcome
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  Speaker 2: to the show. We're going to talk about lots of
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  Speaker 2: Juicy Crimes that happened right here in Newport and Orange County.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome to Juicy Scoop.
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  Speaker 3: Thank you. Happy to be here.
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  Speaker 2: I'm so glad I reached out to you and that
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  Speaker 2: you're able to come here because this is like really
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  Speaker 2: the highlight of my five week stay in the OC.
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  Speaker 4: Wow.
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  Speaker 3: Okay.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: A lot of pressure.
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  Speaker 2: But a little bit of background on you, just so
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  Speaker 2: people know who they're listening to. You were just saying
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  Speaker 2: what your former position was, how you became on all
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  Speaker 2: these cases. So just give us a little background.
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  Speaker 3: So I was a deputy DA in the Orange County
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  Speaker 3: DA's office. I did that for 26 years. I kind
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  Speaker 3: of stumbled into it. And I was a law clerk,
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  Speaker 3: I can't believe it, 30 years ago this summer. And
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  Speaker 3: I knew at the end of the very first day
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  Speaker 3: that I was completely hooked. And my, my original plan
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  Speaker 3: is I want to be a DA for three years.
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  Speaker 3: And then 26 years later, it was like, I really
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  Speaker 3: have to like move on with my life.
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  Speaker 2: So, um, where did you go to law school?
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  Speaker 3: Went in San Diego, University of San Diego. I went
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  Speaker 3: to UCSB for undergrad, grew up in LA, went to
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  Speaker 3: Loyola high school. Oh, Loyola. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: I went to Louisville.
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  Speaker 3: Oh, you went to Louisville.
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  Speaker 2: Yes. And my son's at Crespi.
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  Speaker 3: Okay. I dated somebody from Louisville in high school. Um,
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  Speaker 3: all the stories, all the stories I can tell, but, um, Louisville.
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  Speaker 3: So I, I had some background in sexual assault education
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  Speaker 3: in college. So I kind of got recruited. I got
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  Speaker 3: the FBI was really interested in me and women who
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  Speaker 3: were Kathy Harper from the Orange County DA. So I
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  Speaker 3: basically got recruited in and I loved it. And it,
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  Speaker 3: it's like you, you, you trying cases as a craft,
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  Speaker 3: you know, like anything else, like being a comedian, it's
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  Speaker 3: a craft to get better and better over time. And like,
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  Speaker 3: It's not dissimilar in a lot of ways because you're
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  Speaker 3: standing up in front of a group of people and
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  Speaker 3: you are essentially persuading them. You know what I mean?
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  Speaker 3: And the longer you stay, the more serious the cases get,
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  Speaker 3: the more skilled you become, the more power you have
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  Speaker 3: to make it right, you know, and to the degree
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  Speaker 3: that it can be. So I went to sexual assault
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  Speaker 3: for four years. First, you start on misdemeanors and you
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  Speaker 3: get into it. It's called the felony panel where you're
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  Speaker 3: doing generic felony jury trials. And then they assign you
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  Speaker 3: to a specialized unit. And in Orange County, they're called
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  Speaker 3: vertical units. So the way it works is you get
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  Speaker 3: assigned to a specialized area, whether it's auto fraud or gangs.
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  Speaker 3: Or for me, I went to sexual assault. And then
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  Speaker 3: you get certain cities assigned to you. And then depending
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  Speaker 3: on how you do in your first vertical. unit off
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  Speaker 3: the panel, you might have a shot at the homicide unit.
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  Speaker 3: So there's roughly 300 lawyers, a little bit less, assigned
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  Speaker 3: to the Orange County Gayness Office. And there's eight that
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  Speaker 3: are assigned to homicide. So if you get to that level,
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  Speaker 3: then you start doing murders and then you get cities.
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  Speaker 3: So my cities were Costa Mesa, Laguna Beach, Newport and Irvine.
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  Speaker 3: And so I was in the unit for 17 years.
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  Speaker 3: We would go to all of our own crime scenes.
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  Speaker 3: We get the call out in the middle of the night.
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  Speaker 3: You go with your assigned investigator because we have a
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  Speaker 3: partnership with a police officer within the DA's office. And
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  Speaker 3: then you work with the same cops over and over
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  Speaker 3: again on all these different cases. And it's pretty awesome.
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  Speaker 2: And then some of them were very high profile because
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  Speaker 2: they are the juicy crimes that I talk about. They
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  Speaker 2: involve affairs and money and deception and murder for hire.
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  Speaker 2: And one that I remembered. And then my friend reminded
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  Speaker 2: me when I said where I was running this house,
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  Speaker 2: she goes, you got to check out this crime and
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  Speaker 2: started to tell me about it. And I'm like, of
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  Speaker 2: course I know this one. And why don't you give
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  Speaker 2: the breath of it to our people? Cause you could
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  Speaker 2: probably explain it better than I am, but you can
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  Speaker 2: watch it. It was, was it, Dateline or 2020?
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  Speaker 3: 2020, just did two hours on it. And it's an
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  Speaker 3: awesome episode. And it's the victim's.
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  Speaker 2: Name is- And it was your case.
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  Speaker 3: It was my case. Yeah, so this was, I mean,
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  Speaker 3: it's funny. I was a couple of minutes late showing
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  Speaker 3: up here and I'm at the freeway and we timed
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  Speaker 3: the drive so many different times. I knew exactly how long,
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  Speaker 3: how late I was going to be when I showed
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  Speaker 3: up here because it's the same gate. The last time
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  Speaker 3: I was here was for 2020. The time before that
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  Speaker 3: and this gated little Balboa Coast community the time before
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  Speaker 3: that was all related to that case. So basically what
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  Speaker 3: happened was it's the plot to Body Heat. And I
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: think Body Heat with Kathleen Turner and William Hurt. And
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  Speaker 3: I think that was a redone noir from the 30s,
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  Speaker 3: which was a redone plot from whenever. I mean, that
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  Speaker 3: scenario has probably repeated itself since caveman days.
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  Speaker 2: It's the classic where The woman gets her lover to
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  Speaker 2: kill her husband.
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  Speaker 3: Right. Or the older man with resources that gets duped
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  Speaker 3: into a relationship with a woman who then manipulates a
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  Speaker 3: young man to kill him and then makes off with
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  Speaker 3: the loot. And that is one of the scenarios in murders.
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  Speaker 3: There's a lot.
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  Speaker 2: There's a lot.
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  Speaker 3: There's been a lot. There's a lot. So this was...
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  Speaker 3: Bill McLaughlin was... First of all, he's a very good man.
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  Speaker 3: And he invented the subterfuge. If you ever had a
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: PRP shot or... That's getting big right now for cosmetic stuff.
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: I just had a derm say I need PRP in
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: my face after all the sun damage from the years
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: of surfing. But basically, that plasma gets separated from blood
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  Speaker 3: in a subterfuge that was invented by Bill McLaughlin and
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  Speaker 3: his business partner in the late 80s. And huge medical advance.
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  Speaker 3: It's still being used today. So he actually contributed to
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  Speaker 3: the world. And he had three kids. And even though
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  Speaker 3: they grew up here with a lot of money, they're
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  Speaker 3: some of the nicest people I encountered as a prosecutor ever.
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  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, just, you know, this happened in 1994.
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  Speaker 2: And at his time of murder, death, he had $ 55 million.
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  Speaker 2: And the house, I mean, this is nice, you know,
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  Speaker 2: but I mean, he certainly wasn't. overspending or flashy or
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  Speaker 2: anything because the house was a nice house, but not
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  Speaker 2: a 50. And back then 55 million is probably worth
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  Speaker 2: 150 today. Who the hell knows? But like, I was
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  Speaker 2: kind of like, oh, all right. So the fact that
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  Speaker 2: this young girl in the net kind of went after him,
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  Speaker 2: I wonder if even entering this relationship, if she even
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  Speaker 2: was aware at that time of the enormous amount of wealth,
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  Speaker 2: not just a guy that can you know, support your
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  Speaker 2: home and your kids and give you a car, but
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  Speaker 2: like real life-changing, generational changing wealth.
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  Speaker 3: Right. Well, women like this, there's one thing I learned
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  Speaker 3: in 17 years in that unit. And I mean, not
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  Speaker 3: just women. Dirty John was one of my cases. So
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  Speaker 3: John Meehan, that was another Newport one. People like this,
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  Speaker 3: they can smell money like sharks smell blood. So fundamentally,
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  Speaker 3: it's a predatory thing. And I guarantee that Nanette, the
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  Speaker 3: second she laid eyes on that guy, she knew Like.
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  Speaker 2: One of those things where they like, where you, you know,
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  Speaker 2: the shoe, the watch, the way he talks to a staff,
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: you know, some staff, you know, like really wealthy people
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  Speaker 2: actually treat staff the best because they've had them for
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: so long and they know they, you know, little things
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  Speaker 2: like that, that people don't realize, like they're not the,
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: you know, it's the nouveau riche that's, you know, and
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: the people that didn't work hard for it, that are
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  Speaker 2: the assholes.
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  Speaker 3: And not only that, but this guy was, he, he
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: came from modest means. I mean, he, so he, he
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: was one of those guys as a kid and he
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: was in the Marine Corps. And he had a very
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  Speaker 3: interesting life. So he's married for 30 years and he
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  Speaker 3: gets divorced. And I think a lot of us have
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: gone through this. I've unfortunately gone through this where you're
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: in a relationship with a really good person. And for
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  Speaker 3: whatever reason, the relationship ends, right? Whether it's a marriage
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: or whatever, he was, he'd been married for 30 years
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  Speaker 3: and he gets divorced and his picker was completely broken.
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: So the first woman he dates, He is the worst woman.
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  Speaker 2: He has no game.
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  Speaker 3: He has no game. He has no game. And he
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  Speaker 3: has no, more importantly, I don't think a guy like
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  Speaker 3: that has any idea like how much he has to
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: offer in a relationship. You know, he's much older. He's
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  Speaker 3: not as handsome as he once was. And I think
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  Speaker 3: he limps into the next thing. I mean, we all
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: kind of do that.
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  Speaker 2: Well, if you think about someone that was married for
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  Speaker 2: 30 years and that means he got married in his
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  Speaker 2: early twenties.
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  Speaker 3: Right.
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  Speaker 2: And so it's like, how, how many girls did he
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  Speaker 2: even have sex with before he found his wife? So that,
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  Speaker 2: The gay, like, is so off.
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  Speaker 3: Right.
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  Speaker 2: And not even know how to talk to people. Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: and you didn't have all the dating apps where these
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: guys could get all the experience quickly.
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  Speaker 3: Right. So she actually put an ad out. And we'll
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  Speaker 3: never know how they actually met, but she put an
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  Speaker 3: ad out in a singles magazine because pre-internet, that's what
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  Speaker 3: it was. A boudoir photo of her and negligee saying,
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  Speaker 3: I know how to take care of my man if
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  Speaker 3: he knows how to take care of me. And it
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  Speaker 3: was entitled Wealthy Men Only. You know, so one of
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  Speaker 3: the Everybody kind of wondered if he answered that. Nobody
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  Speaker 3: really knows. And the story kind of shifted. But so
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  Speaker 3: he's this really good guy. He's got a lot of money.
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  Speaker 3: And he begins dating a woman who is hellbent on
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: taking it. And hilarity ensues. So after they start dating,
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: his son, Kevin, and this is tragic, gets hit by
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: a drunk driver as he's skateboarding. So Kevin is like
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: your classic Newport Beach kid. He's a surfer. He's got
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: blonde hair. He's strikingly handsome. He plays water polo. Um,
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: and you know, so he's raised here right down the
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: street from where we are right now. He's a good kid. Um,
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: skateboarding gets hit by a drunk and suffers severe brain damage.
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: So Nanette is able to kind of inject herself into
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: this and starts, you know, uh, she like ambulances herself
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: in and is taking care of them and taking her
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: in medical appointments, which opened up a soft spot in
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: Bill McLaughlin's heart. So then what she starts doing is
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: she moves in, moves the daughter's stuff out. So there's
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: two daughters that still had rooms there. They're both adults.
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: They've you know, like early 20s and moved her kids
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: into the house. They're together for about four years. And
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: I think she realizes at a certain point he's not
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: actually going to marry her. And he had a vasectomy
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: and she wanted to lock it down with a baby.
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: So I think she started realizing that maybe this gravy
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: train wasn't forever. And it's actually really clever what she did.
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: So he's got multiple bank accounts and she convinced him, hey, look,
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: let's open a new one. a joint checking account so
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: I can just handle the household expenses, the maid, the gardener,
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: whatever needs to be done, which is kind of genius.
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: Because what that means is she starts transferring. If she
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: had a separate bank account and she goes in and
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: transfers money or starts writing checks against his account for
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars, that's going to
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: catch somebody's attention. But because this is one of his accounts,
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: she's funneling all this money. She's transferring money from his accounts,
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: faking his signature. into another one of his accounts, but
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: she has legal access to that. So it's, it's clever. Meanwhile,
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: so she starts stealing.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: Uh, she also moves her two little kids in from
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: her first husband.
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: Right now. They also, this is kind of telling maybe, um,
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: he had full custody of the kids, her ex-husband. So
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: you've got a woman who's, which is so.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: Rare, especially back in 94.
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah. It's rare. And it's a red flag. And, um,
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: But Bill McLaughlin, she still spent a lot of time
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: with her kids, and she loved her kids by all accounts.
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: And Bill McLaughlin was good to her children. We've got
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: all these photos of them together, sitting together. So he
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: didn't want to have new kids, but he was really
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: good to her kids. And meanwhile, she starts dating a
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: guy named Eric Naposki, who is a trainer at a gym.
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: He's an NFL washout, freakish athlete. And he's from a
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: place called Yorktown Heights, New York. played for the New
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: England Patriots for three games before he had a groin injury.
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: And then he's kind of one of these semi-pro vagabond
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: football players who has big dreams, but can't quite make
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: it into the big time. So he was on a
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: bunch of practice squads for various NFL teams, played for
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: NFL Canada, went to NFL Europe, and basically winds up
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: out here working as a bouncer. And there's a place
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: right across the channel called the Thunderbird Nightclub, which is
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: 136 yards away from.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: Is that where A's is now?
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: Uh, yes.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay. That's my figure.
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah. You can literally see it across the channel and
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: he gets a job there two weeks before the murder. So,
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: so when we, um, Bill McGlough, gets shot six times
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: in his kitchen and he's gone through this kind of
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: contentious litigation with the former business partner. So the former
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: business partner and it looked like he was going to
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: win it. And he was prime suspect number one. And
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: he's eliminated very quickly because he's got a rock solid
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: alibi in Santa Barbara.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: The car is beautiful. Where did you end up going
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: for it?
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: This exclusive place that Dad has connections with.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: They have more cars for more dealerships than, like, anywhere else.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: You have to put me in touch. What's it called?
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: It's Dunaidial.
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: Where?
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: Dunaidial. There's an accent on the E. Do you mean... Yes,
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: I got it on Dundial Cars.
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: Lift?
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: Please. Are you going past Kimmage? Oh, Kimmage. No. Dundial Cars.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: You couldn't possibly go anywhere else.
• 20:36
  Speaker 4: I'm Darman, and this is What Happens Next. Each week
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: on the show, I sit down with extraordinary people who
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: have faced tremendous setbacks and yet somehow have found a
• 20:47
  Speaker 4: way to turn them into their greatest strengths.
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: Life is one long lesson of chaos. I'm heading to
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: the Emmys and I have police complaints filed against me.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: When your free will was about to be taken from you,
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: what would you do if it was given back?
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: Where did that need come from where you thought that
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: you had to succeed in order to feel loved?
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: He said, I have a work dad. I need a
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: home dad. What happens next?
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: When I came in, he started crying.
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: Everybody in life encounters hardships. What defines them is not
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: those hard moments that they go through. It's about what
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: happens next.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: I decided to risk it all.
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: I realized how valuable every day was. You're worth the work.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: Listen, Dara, I'm not going to pull punches. You can
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: use your voice even if it's shaped.
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: The stories are different, but the impact is the same.
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: Only one question matters. What happens next?
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: Okay, so I have a question, though, because in watching,
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: you know, I only really watched the stuff and then
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: read as much as I could find on where they
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: are today. I believe that they were engaged, and part
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: of that engagement between Bill and Nanette was that he
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: did set up something in which she would get a
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: million dollars whether he died before they were married or not.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: But still, a million is not as much as she
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: could gain if she became the wife.
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: Right. So she had provisions in the will, but what
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: she also did She manipulated herself into becoming the trustee
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: of his estate. And that's where the real stealing can
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: go on because she's a trustee. She's going to have
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: access to all that. And essentially what happens is, so
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: he gets murdered. There's a key that's left in the door.
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: And there's a pedestrian gate key that's dropped on the mat.
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: And those are huge. The key in the door was
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: an Ace Hardware key. And I didn't know this in
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: the key world. Ace Hardware keys, the blanks can only
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: be used at Ace Hardware stores. Okay, like didn't know that.
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: There was an Ace Hardware store very close to where
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: Eric Naposki lived. So this was in 1994. So this
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: man is brutally murdered, shot six times. A Beretta 92F
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: was the gun that did it. And basically, case comes in.
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: Everybody knows the nuts involved, but it got refused back
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: in 94. Okay, so.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: And wait, one more question. You had told me when
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: we talked on the phone, we were setting this up,
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: that there was a pedestrian gate here, which no longer exists.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: So was that towards the end, closer to the unit?
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: So their house is, the murder house is right at
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: the end of this street. And it's the second to
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: last house. And there used to be a pedestrian access gate,
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: which goes to the bike path where people can go
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: roller skate or whatever, right next to their house, basically,
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: like 50 feet or wherever, just right across the road.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: And did they get rid of that because of this murder?
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: You know, they did some reconstruction. I don't know. I
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: don't know. They might have as a security thing for
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: the community. So the configuration is a little bit different.
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: There used to be stairs down off that bridge that
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: came down. So there's an access route directly to the
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: murder area. But it got refused. And the reviewing deputy
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: thought more could be done. And that was refused again.
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: And so 15 years went by.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: And did the daughters always think that?
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so imagine this. So the daughters, their father's been murdered.
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: And they just want their dad to be happy. So
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: they're super nice to Nanette. And they're super nice to
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: Nanette's kids. And they get into the bank accounts. And
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: their brother is disabled. So there's all this money that
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: should be set aside for Kevin and his care. There's
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: no money left. Okay. Imagine that. So they're, they're dealing
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: with the grief of their dad like this. And, and
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: look in the, in the arc of human existence, right?
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: The worst thing that we can ever experience is we
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: lose a loved one.
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: And we will all deal with that if we live
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: long enough. Worse than that is you lose a loved
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: one to murder. And then the worst thing I think
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: that we can experience in life as human beings is
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: someone we loved is murdered and the person gets away
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: with it. Right. That's, That is the worst thing. And these,
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: the daughters, Kim and Jenny McLaughlin, were so patient and
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: they were so sweet. And their way of reminding Newport
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: PD that this, you know, they'd send them cookies every
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: year on the anniversary. And they would, and to this day,
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: they send me cookies every birthday, you know. And that's
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: one of the things about these things. If you do
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: it right as a prosecutor, you know, they don't pay
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: us anything, you know. but you get, it's like an
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: addiction with the moms and with the family members. And
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: your first five years in homicide, you spend it just
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: trying to find your footing. And you have dozens and
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: dozens of jury trials under your belt at that point.
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: But learning how to do murders is a little bit different.
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: It's a real subspecialty. And then the next 10 years,
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: you kind of, you get into more difficult cases. Like
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: it's almost like heroin addiction. You need a little more,
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: the cases need to be a little bit harder. to
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: kind of get that same feeling like you've done something good.
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: A trained monkey can win most murder cases.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: Because maybe most, we saw the man shoot the man
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: or like.
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: There's an eyewitness. It's on video. It's a 7-Eleven robbery.
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: The weapon gets dropped. There's DNA and it's all on tape.
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: You can see the guy's face. Maybe not the majority
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: of murder cases, but a healthy percentage. It doesn't require
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: a whole lot of skill and dedication. Right. But there
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: are those like this one where it is a very
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: complicated plot. And when you get into conspiracies, those are
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: the most fascinating ones because they've planned to get away
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: with it. They've got alibis that are set up. They've
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: got stories to tell. They've locked down their plan. And
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: the police always enter at a disadvantage because these clever,
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: diabolical people have accounted for police interviews and have accounted
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: for police attention. And they've got they've got a plan
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: and they, they, they do false, you know, they sent
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: false trails and they, and that's one of the things
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: that is a part of all of these, like same
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: thing with the Hawks murder, same thing with the Wozniak
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: murder at Costa Mesa with the guy who cut off
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: his neighbor's head and that whole thing. I'm not, not anyone.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: We'll get to those. I want to get back to
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: this real quick. But when you're talking about that is
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: one thing I always notice. Cause of course I'm huge
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: in this. And my sister is a criminal defense attorney.
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: But is this, Is leaving the voicemail for the person
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: that you killed. That wasn't part of this case, but
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: I noticed that so much.
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: That it's always like, hey, babe, I'm coming home. I
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: don't know where you are.
• 27:27
  Speaker 4: Worried about you.
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: How come you're not calling? Yes. Yes. And so if
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: you work with the right guys. So this was in my,
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: I really started getting into this after I'd been there
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: for seven or eight years. So I go to Newport.
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: We dust off some old cases. And it's like, which
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: one of these can we eat? can we put together?
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: And I was working with the best detectives. And these
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: are the same guys that I'd done hawks with. And
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: now I've been with them for probably eight or nine
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: years at that point. And so they trust me, right?
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: And I love these guys. And by guys, it includes
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: a group of women that work there too. I mean,
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: you bond when you're there at three o'clock in the
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: morning with them and I'm helping them with the search warrants,
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: you know, as we're all getting rained on. And then
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: they're next to me when the jury comes in and
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: that's the way it's supposed to work. You go to
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: the murder scene You meet your investigator and you meet
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: your cops there and you're there with them. And then
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: they stick with you as a team all the way
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: through the end of the jury trial. And there's that
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: element of trust. So with these guys, they're going to
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: do what I need to get done to be able
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: to present it. And so with these two daughters, 15
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: years has gone by. They know that Eric Komposki and
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: Nanette murder their dad they just.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: And and let's talk about what happened to them afterwards
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: so you did question eric right at that or you're
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: the not you but they he was questioned at that
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: time and what was his story back in 94 and
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: his connection with nanette and everything.
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: Right his story was i couldn't possibly have done it
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: i was i was working at the time well his
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: shift started at nine o'clock at the nightclub right across
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: right across the channel and he got that job two
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: weeks before Right. And couldn't possibly have done it. And, uh,
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: and I made a, I made a phone call from
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: Tustin and blah, blah, blah. So we, we timed that
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: a million times. And an alibi is you're in Vegas.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: Making the call at the, at the, um, with this
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: calling card.
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: At the Denny's.
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: At that time. So if you make the call, you
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: couldn't have gotten here in time.
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: That's the argument. No matter how you slice it or
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: dice it, he could be here not only in time,
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: but the timing is almost perfect. Bill McLaughlin shot at 9.11,
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: exactly 9.11 p.m.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: Because the son, the handicapped son heard it and was
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: able to call.
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: And Kevin wasn't supposed to be home. He was supposed
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: to be at a meeting that was all part of
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: his deal with his dad and staying there. And Kevin
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: started smoking some weed afterwards. His dad didn't like it
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: because he thought it was going to damage his recovery.
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: And And that 911 call is heart-wrenching because he's disabled
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: and he's trying to express what he's looking at. And
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: his dad is at his feet and he's literally dying
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: at his feet. And he's saying, my dad has been shot.
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: And you can barely understand what he's saying. And I mean,
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: that's another thing about these is that when you're talking
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: about the perspective of loved ones, it is so traumatic
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: and it is so awful. And it's motivated by money.
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: It's the second most banal reason why anybody could commit
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: a murder. versus sexual abuse, right? But money, like the
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: amount of human grief and suffering that goes into one
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: of these things is unbelievable. So I got to call
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: Jenny McLaughlin and Kim McLaughlin and let them know when
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: we charged them. We worked on this thing for two years.
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: And one of the interesting things- Sorry, go ahead. Yeah.
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: So Nanette, they had a beach house down the way.
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: So we know the killer has a key to the
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: beach house or to the main house here. So if
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: she's innocent, it's one of those things, if she's innocent
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: versus not innocent. And my old investigator is a guy
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: named Larry Montgomery, who is, Josh Mankiewicz from Dayline calls
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: him the evidence whisperer, right? And he's a specialist in homicide.
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: And it's really just a group of people sitting in
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: a room, spitballing different things. And a lot of times
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: these cases, it just requires a new set of eyes.
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: But this family has been denied justice for 15 years.
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: And Nanette has moved on. She's married another guy and
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: divorced him. Like, Rich guy after rich guy.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: Right, so I wanted to say that because this is
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: where I get fascinated.
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: You know, is, she's, I mean, I guess she was
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: kind of okay looking back then. I didn't think she
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: was like that amazing, but put together. And so then
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: after this happens with him, she does get in trouble
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: for some of the stealing of the money, correct?
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: The prosecutor for fraud, but not murder. So she's out
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: in six months.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: And then she comes back out and manages to get
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: another prosecutor I think good looking guy who also has money.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: She gets pregnant by him. Why did they get divorced?
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: Do you know why they got divorced?
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: You know, so we got into some of the records
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: on that. It was so acrimonious, you know, it was,
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: it was, I mean, it was a horrific divorce. I
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: don't know interpersonally what led to it, you know, from
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: my perspective, didn't really care, but she goes from him,
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: who's a guy with a lot of money, has a
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: baby with him to another guy named, well, yeah, Billy McNeil.
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: who's a good man who had no clue who Nanette was.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: And he's cute too.
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: He was good looking too. He's a good looking guy.
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: He got his master's in business administration from USC. Like
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: he's a guy on the rise and that's exactly the type.
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: And she's living in- Locks that down with another baby.
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: Yep. Locks it down with another baby. And I felt
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: bad for him because he's a, you know, we looked
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: into him. He's a good man and he just had
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: no clue. And that's how good she is.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: Did he have any clue when he got with her
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: that she had any tie to this murder at all?
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: No idea. No idea. Wow. No idea. Because remember at
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: this point, it was a fraud conviction in the early,
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: early to mid nineties. And she had a different name.
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: She's going under a different name because when she met him,
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: she was using the name, last name of her second husband.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: Got it.
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: So even if you'd done like, if you Googled it
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: to death, minimal media, because it was, you know.
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: Back then.
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: Right. Back then. But so Larry comes to me and
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: we're going through all the old reports and There was
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: a moment. Now, she's a dedicated mom. And it's one
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: of those things. What would an innocent person do versus
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: a guilty person? If she's innocent, she knows that the
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: killer had a key to the house. And she knows
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: that because she pulled up that night. Newport escorted her in.
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: She gathered some belongings so that she could go stay
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: in the beach house. And the beach house is a
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: mile away.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: So they have a second house besides Bilbo Cove.
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: Yes. Second house right here in Newport. On the beach.
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: I mean, I can't imagine what that's got to be
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: worth now. But basically right at the jetties, 54th Street.
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: Good surf spot right out in front. So there's a
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: report that was written back then from two of the
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: guys that are, one of them wound up being Dave Byington,
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: who wound up being the sergeant who's my lead on
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: the Hawks murder. So he's an undercover narcotics officer, which
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: means they look like they're killers. And they are trained killers.
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: They're trained police officers. They know how to shoot. They
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: know all that. But they look like hell. Like all,
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: you know, undercover narcotics cops, they throw their hair out.
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: You know, they don't shower. And these guys get into it.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: So he wrote a report. Because they were surveilling her.
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: We watched suspect or subject Nanette Johnston decorating the Christmas tree.
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: And we can see her two kids inside the beach house. Okay.
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: So from a two-dimensional perspective, it's the night before the funeral.
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: The two kids are there. She's decorating the Christmas tree.
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: It means nothing. But when you inject the element of thought, right?
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: When you think about what does that mean? And this
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: is why I work with geniuses. And this was the
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: moment where I knew I was going to charge them. Okay.
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: An innocent person under those circumstances thinks a killer is
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: on the loose. Might be after her. Could be that
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: Bill got in the way of this killer, right?
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: She's a dedicated mom. So if the cops can see,
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: if the detectives on the sand can see her kids inside,
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: that means that she didn't even draw the curtains. Right.
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: You're right.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: You'd be like, I need to go and witness protection.
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: Head on a swivel, right?
• 35:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: And there's a safe place for those kids with their father.
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: But she wants them there at the funeral and she
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: wants them basically as props.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: And also you don't want to leave the beautiful beach
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: house to be in like some like inland apartment to
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: be safe.
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: Right. So we get into the checks. That's right. We
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: get into the checks. We see that she didn't change
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: the locks for 32 days. So as far as she knew,
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: kill her with the key to one house. Why wouldn't
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: you have a key to the other house? Why, you know,
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: in the sketchy lifestyle that she was living, why wouldn't
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: the killer be after her? And you put those things together.
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: There's no way that that woman... was innocent. And when
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: I'm explaining that to the jury and standing up there,
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: you're standing in front of a bunch of strangers and
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: I'm going through that and he starts seeing one nod
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: and then he starts seeing another nod. And that's that
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: human thing. Juries are experts on human behavior. You know,
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: like forget about DNA, forget about like the forensics of
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: expanded shell casings, which advanced a lot in that case.
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: That's one of those real human things. Like she was
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: a dedicated mom. Everybody agreed. Okay. So why is it
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: she's there putting her kids in danger? Why is it?
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: And I mean, killer on the loose, if she's innocent,
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: that killer is going to show up and potentially kill
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: her and maybe even her kids. No way that happens
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: where she doesn't at least draw the curtains. And there
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: are two, two guys in the sand who literally look
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: like murderers and she doesn't see him. She's not looking
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: for him. Same thing when they saw Naposki, when Naposki
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: showed up on the radar, Eric Naposki, they're surveilling Nanette
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: who's in the beach house. And they see this big
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: giant dude like Santa with like a, a, a bag
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: of Christmas presents go walking into the beach house. I'm like,
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: who the hell is this guy? And they follow him.
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: That's how they became aware of him. Then we find
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: out that they've been having an affair for a year
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: that she's been stealing. And it's one of those things,
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: it's like one of those algebra problems, right? A train
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: leaves Albuquerque at one time and, you know, Arizona on another.
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: When do the two trains cross, you know, which I
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: always sucked at in high school, but she's cheating on
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: him and she's getting, more and more open and notorious
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: about it. Like she's bringing him to her son's games
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: in Newport beach and that the McLaughlin family had been
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: here for 25 years at that point. Like she she's
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: getting increasingly risky about somebody seeing her with this other
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: guy and she's stealing increasing amounts of money, all leading
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: up to the murder, you know, and you, you put
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: those little puzzle pieces together. And it becomes very, very compelling.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: So when they interview Eric back in 94, what is
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: his story? Does he admit to having an affair with her?
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: So this is kind of great. This is old tapes, right?
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: And I pop in. The lead detective back then is
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: a guy named Tom Voth. He's like a big Boy Scout.
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: He doesn't swear. He's like, I don't know if he's
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: a religious guy. All he likes to do is fish
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: for bass and let him go. That's his whole thing.
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: So he's this very experienced police officer, but nice as
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: can be. And I pop this tape in. And I
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: hear somebody going hard on whoever they're talking to. Like,
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: you expect me to believe that? That's freaking bullshit. Like, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: And I'm like, wow. I never knew both had it
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: in them. And then I get this slight New York accent.
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: And it's like, oh, my God. That's the suspect. That's
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: Naposki yelling at the cops. Oh. And that's what he
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: would do. And he's so forceful in his representations. Like,
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: you expect. And he turned every interview around. And basically
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: what he said was.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: Eric did.
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: Eric did. And they asked him, like, hey, do you
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: have anything? Do you have any firearms? He's like, no,
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: I don't have any firearms. And then as the interview
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: goes on, it's like, okay, well, yeah, I did have one.
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: I was a Jennings 380, but I gave that to
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: my friend, Joe David Jimenez. And then later, you know, oh, yeah,
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: I did have a Beretta 92F, but that thing went
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: to Joe. He was working a security job, blah, blah, blah.
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: So they get to this other witness and they interview him.
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: And he's like, yeah, he gave me a gun. But
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: he didn't give me a Jennings 380. He gave me,
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: I'm sorry, he didn't give me a beautiful Beretta 9mm.
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: He gave me this piece of crap Jennings. He didn't
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: pay me for the job. So I sold it. And
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: it had what's called Federal Hydroshock ammo in it. And
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: he still, he got the gun back with the clip
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: and nobody, nobody shot it. It was the same ammunition
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: that was used in the murder of Bill McLaughlin, which
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: was like, it's not a, that by itself isn't enough,
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: but it was certainly enough. as one of the puzzle pieces.
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: So it's the same exact ammo that was used in
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: the murder is loaded in this Jennings 380 that Eric
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: lied about. So they go back and they're like, dude,
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: you lied about that gun. He's like, yeah, I did.
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: I misled you. So what? So where is your Beretta 92F?
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: Because that's the gun that was used in the murder.
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: And he's like, well, I'm not. That's my statement. I
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: don't know. It got stolen from my car. I don't know.
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: That's my statement. So when you got a guy that's
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: lying about a firearm and forensic science advanced too. So
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: That was one of like 17 guns that could have
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: shot the expended casings. You know, so that for automatic firearms,
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: there's revolvers, right, that keep the shell. And there's autos,
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: which are far and away the most popular, that expends
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: the casings. So we had six expended shell casings. And
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: the forensic science of that had gone leaps and bounds
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: in the 15 years. So now we knew that the
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: gun that was used to shoot Bill McLaughlin was a
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: Beretta 9mm. It was a 92F. And that was exactly
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: the gun that Eric had that he couldn't account for.
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: So like all those little pieces kind of come together.
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: But does he, what does he say about his relationship
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: with Nanette back in 94?
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah. So the first, it starts with, yeah, she's
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: a friend of mine. She's a friend of mine. I'd
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: say we're good friends. That's basically a quote. And then
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: by the end of the interview, it's like, okay, well, yeah,
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: she's my girlfriend. I don't know, girlfriend, we're not really exclusive.
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: So it metamorphosizes over the course of the interview. And
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: it like, so he's clearly trying to hide the nature
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: of their relationship. So.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: And I remember another part in the special that you
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: did was they were looking for million dollar homes together.
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: Yes. Yeah.
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: So you actually found a realtor that showed them houses
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: and they acted like a cute, rich couple that could
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: actually purchase a house for a million dollars.
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 41:02
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: And that's another thing just broadly. In murder cases, one
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: of the things that's fascinating is that there are broad categories.
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: Like shaken babies, it's its whole thing. Gang murders, it's
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: a whole thing. People who plot to murder people for money,
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: it's almost as if they go to school and there's
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: almost always a real estate agent involved. They can't wait
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: to spend the money. And like in the Hawks murder,
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: which we're going to talk about, and in the McLaughlin murder,
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: both of those couples are meeting with real estate agents
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: before the death. People that have absolutely no cash.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: As if real estate agents don't have it hard enough.
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: As if they don't have it.
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: And then they got to come in and testify in
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: my murder case. Yeah.
• 41:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: But that's one of the things. It's a pattern that
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: you see over and over again. They cannot wait to
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: spend the money. And the day of the funeral of
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: Bill McLaughlin, they had Nanette. They were videotaping her. She
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: didn't know it. And it's weird because over time, video
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: goes green. And so we've got these green images of
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: Nanette getting hugged by all these family members who are
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: super nice people who believe You know, she had nothing
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: to do with it. And they're hugging her. Everybody in
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: that funeral was crying. There was not a single person
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: that wasn't shedding tears except for one. And it was her.
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: And she went from the funeral to a place called
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: Champion Yamaha that I just drove by on my way
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: in here to buy trail bikes, like dirt bikes, to
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: go riding with Eric. And then it's off to San
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: Francisco for New Year's. He was murdered on December 15th.
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: And by New Year's Eve, she's in San Francisco with
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: her paramour, With Eric? With Eric, yes. And they go
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: on this big spending spree right afterwards. And that's another thing.
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: However clever they are in putting it together, they cannot
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: wait to spend the money.
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: That's my other tip for women who kill their husband.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: Hold off on that boob job. Hold off on that
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: boob job for like at least, what do you suggest?
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: Six months? Six months.
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: I'm in private practice now, so I would say call
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: me first so I can talk you out of it.
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: So you don't kill anybody and wind up getting life
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: without possibility of parole.
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: Okay. So they're doing all that, but they're still not
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: enough at that time to arrest either one of them.
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: How soon do they break up and go their separate ways?
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: About a year. About a year. Now, I don't think
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: she had any real use for Eric beyond the role
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: that he played in the murder. So she kept that
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: thing going long enough for him to go his way
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: without routing her out.
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: So he moves back to the East Coast. Basically, he's
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: working as a professional trainer. He had another kid. He's
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: living his life. She's living her life, ripping off other men,
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: getting married, doing her thing. And one of those two
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: undercover narcotics officers, Dave Byington, wound up getting promoted. He
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: became a sergeant and he became in charge of the
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: Crimes Against Persons Unit at Newport PD. And this is
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: an excellent police department down here. These guys are awesome.
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: It's a very well-run department with a good chief. Newport
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: does it right. So now he's the guy that's overseeing
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: that revamped investigation. So we planned this out for months.
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: We had a team in Connecticut where Eric was. We're
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: going to give him an opportunity to do what's called
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: a cold call, to call Nanette and try to get
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: her on the phone and get her to admit the murder.
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: You ask Eric to do that?
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: We ask Eric to do that.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: And does he do that?
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: No, he refused to do that. And one of the
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: things that I think you'll appreciate, you know, given everything
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: that you do, there's a lot of like gallows humor
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: that goes on behind the scenes on these things. You
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: know what I mean? As serious as the topic is,
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: I think people have to do that just to stay sane.
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: And one of those moments came in this tiny little
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: interview room when they're interviewing the posse, you know, Eric
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: is six foot five, two 50 and a freak of
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: an athlete. I mean, this is a incredibly powerful man
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: and they're in this phone booth size interview room and
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: he's handcuffed and Larry, you know, the evidence whisperer, my
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: investigator is, is a master at getting people to talk. And,
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: But Eric Naposki is in control pretty much of every
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: interview he's done. And that's just his personality. So he's
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: under arrest. And I got a photo of him at
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: the moment of arrest. And he's got this bewildered look
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: on his face, which is frankly awesome, considering the pain
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: he put that family through. So there's Eric and one
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: of the guys at Newport, a guy named Joe Cartwright,
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: who's a fantastic detective. And so Eric is in there
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: with Larry and Joe. And Larry's like, look, I know
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: you did this. He's like, quit, you know, say it again,
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: say I did it again. And Eric is getting increasingly
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: agitated and he's not, he has no interest in helping
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: us with Nanette. And they're like, we want you to
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: call Nanette and do that. Fuck you. I'm not doing that. Blah, blah, blah.
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: And like, it goes on and on. And, and he goes,
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: you know, I didn't do this. You know, I didn't
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: do this. And finally, Larry realizes after about an hour
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: of this, that it's not going anywhere. He looks Eric
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: in the eye and he goes, I know you did
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: do it and we're going to prove it. And Eric
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: is like ready to, he's just like, and he wound
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: up having some sort of like, Hard event. He was
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: so angry. And Joe's like, okay, timeout. Joe is hysterical.
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: He brings Larry out and he's like, Larry, do you
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: stop making him mad? Can't you see he's big enough
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: to get out of those cuffs and shove me up
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: your ass? Anyway, probably not appropriate to say, but.
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: No, no. I mean, so. Cause in the, in the
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: show that we saw the 2020, he says, you know,
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: that he was, you know, once he's telling his story,
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: it's all over and, you know, Now he says in
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: this interview, I met Nanette. She told me that this
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: guy Bill was her business partner, that she's the one
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: who came up with the idea that separated the plasma
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: from the blood or whatever. And one night he, Bill,
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: makes a move on her. Which I was like, well,
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: why would you say that? Because now that does give
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: you motive to kill. But, you know, and his friends
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: are like, yeah, we thought she was this great, like,
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: scientist that, like, you know, we had no clue. We
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: thought they were this couple. And, I mean, I think
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: it becomes pretty clear, you know, that they were in
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: on it. But then is there also... the question with
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: the timing that maybe he knew about it and was
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: in on it, but he wasn't the exact person to
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: shoot him.
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: Well, okay. So there's questions. You question that every time.
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: You always have an open mind as you go through
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: something like this. The problem is that there'd be no
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: reason for him to get that job. Of all the
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: gin joints in all of Orange County and LA, if
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: you're going to be a bouncer, he gets one 136
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: yards away from the murder scene. And when we do
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: the drive over and over again and every possible route, every,
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: you know, the anniversary of the boat parade, you know,
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: the calendar anniversary of it, he is there with perfect timing.
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: So basically what happened was they left a game, a
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: soccer game from her son, and she drove him directly
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: to Newport, dropped him off. She doubles back to South
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: Coast Plaza and buys some stuff. So when she comes
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: rolling in, she's got an alibi on paper. And so
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: Eric is the shooter. His gun was used.
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: So what was this call at Denny's on the calling
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: card that that evidence was lost? Because when I originally
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: saw that, I thought, did he have someone make that
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: call for him?
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: Being that it was a calling card thing as evidence.
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: But what is your thought on that?
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, here's the problem. Is that everything that Eric said
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: was essentially a lie. Virtually everything. Everything that Nanette said
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: was a lie. We were able to disprove statement after
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: statement after statement. Like the thing with the guns. He
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: was completely full of it regarding the guns. And so
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: we got to start from the, from the idea. When
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: you start looking at the phone call, the only evidence
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: that that existed of all the people that are involved,
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: the only evidence is from Eric Naposki. So he's the
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: source of the whole story. There is no, nobody else
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: at the club said, I talked to Eric. Nobody else
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: said I called him. It's a hundred percent from Eric.
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: So he, Eric Naposki. And, and, and also it's the
• 48:50
  Speaker 3: third version of the story. It's yeah. I, I, The
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: first one is, yeah, we left the game. We go
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: to I go to my apartment. I change. She goes
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: off to go shopping and then I go straight to
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: work because I was late for work. And then the
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: second interview, this guy, Frizzell, is one of the detectives.
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: Eric goes, hey, I got an alibi. And he goes,
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: you don't have an alibi. We check the time. You
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: do not have an alibi. And he goes, well, oh, yeah,
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: I went. She dropped me off in my apartment. And then, yeah,
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: I went to my friend Eric Chomsky's house to see
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: if he's there. And then, oh, yeah. let's see. I
• 49:20
  Speaker 3: got a page. And then I went over to Denny's
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: and returned the page. And it's just like it's it's
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: off the cuff. It's not believable as he says it.
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: And then he locked down on that. So he and
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: think about it again. This is one of these common
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: common things. If you are charged with murder or somebody
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: suspects that you committed a murder and you didn't do
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: it and there's a phone record. that puts you someplace
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: that you think gives you an alibi, how many copies
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: of that are you going to make? I mean, I
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: would wallpaper my house with it. Like you're going to
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: tattoo it on the backs of your eyelids. That is
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: the single most important document that exists in your world.
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: If we get birth certificates, passports, you've got a phone
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: record that puts you someplace else at the time of
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: a murder that people suspect that you did. There's no
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: way he's losing that. And he came up with 10
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: different stories about what happened to those phone records too. Now,
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: 15 years later, phone records didn't exist anymore from the company,
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: but he knew back then. that he believed that was
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: his get-out-of-jail-free card. Like, there's just no way that that
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: thing's getting lost. And the attorney that he had at
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: the time is a guy named Julian Bailey, who's now
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: a judge, who I've known for 30 years, who's as
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: meticulous and professional as you get. And Eric's like, yeah,
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: I gave it to Julian Bailey. No way. No way
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: Julian Bailey would lose it. No way Eric Naposki wouldn't
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: make copies. No way Julian Bailey wouldn't make a million
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: copies of it. That thing prevents somebody to go on,
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: would prevent an innocent man from going to prison for life?
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: No way. So then, We take his story. We say, okay,
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: let's say it's true. Let's do the drive. And we
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: did it, I think, seven times. Every single time, he
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: gets there in plenty of time to commit the murder.
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: From the football game or whatever, from the kids game.
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: From the soccer game to his apartment, back to Jomsky's house,
• 50:51
  Speaker 3: over to Denny's to make the call, and back onto
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: the freeway in time to commit the murder every single time.
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: And I mean, we drove it. 20 different ways. I mean,
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: over and over and over again, I was driving.
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: So you guys think so. He, so he went there,
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: she dropped him off. He did it. She went to
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: South coast plaza. He did it, got through the stairs
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: or whatever, the pedestrian gate, shook it off and then
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: worked as a bouncer for the night.
• 51:14
  Speaker 4: Yep.
• 51:14
  Speaker 3: And it all fits because then there's a, he makes
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: a phone call. She gets a mysterious phone call later.
• 51:20
  Speaker 3: You know, she went to go pick him up, you know? And,
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: and again, that's one of those things.
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: She picked him up at the end of the night,
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: like 2 a.m.? At the end of the.
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: Night, almost certainly. Now, we didn't have to prove that.
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: And when did she first hear that her live-in lover
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: was killed?
• 51:35
  Speaker 3: Well, she rolls up because that's part of the plan.
• 51:37
  Speaker 3: So she comes in at about 10 o'clock. So he's
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: shot at 9, 11, about 10 o'clock.
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: Sees all the cops.
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: Sees all the cops. Oh, my God. Oh, my God.
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: What happened? And here's another thing, just human nature-wise. This
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: is back where it was car phones before everybody had
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: a cell phone.
• 51:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: So she sits there for 45 minutes in the car
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: as the police, you know, please wait here. We've got
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: questions for you. We want to find out. She's sitting
• 51:59
  Speaker 3: there with the car phone right there. Calls nobody. Calls nobody.
• 52:02
  Speaker 3: No spills when murdered. Doesn't call the daughters. Doesn't call anybody.
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: Does not make a single phone call.
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: That's crazy too.
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: No way.
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: You'd call someone and like hysterically cry.
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: Hysterically crying. You're not going to believe this. Police are there.
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: Like there's 20 people she has to notify. Right.
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: And then.
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: And then when Jenny McLaughlin comes up the next day,
• 52:20
  Speaker 3: you know, Kevin is in the house. He's totally distraught.
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: I mean, imagine that. Kevin needs care. And she drives
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: Kevin to the beach house. Jenny comes up. So this
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: is one of the daughters that she's known for four
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: years at this point, right? She's going to be family.
• 52:34
  Speaker 3: And Jenny is a really nice person. She goes up
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: to pick up her brother to try to make sense
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: of what just happened to their dad. And Kevin is outside.
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: The guy has a hard time walking because of his
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: brain injury. He's waiting outside for her to pick him up.
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: And Jenny says she sees Nanette like looking through the
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: window and then closes the window and stays inside the house.
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: And why does Nanette get to go to the beach
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: house and not their family?
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: Right. Well, yes. Right. I mean, there's so many little
• 53:02
  Speaker 3: things that are wrong with it. And when you put
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: it all together, there's no frigging way. So we get
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: this new set of eyes and I get to call
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: Jenny and Kim. So they've been waiting 15 years. And
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: I called Jenny. We work with them concerning a bunch
• 53:13
  Speaker 3: of stuff. You know, like finances and getting all that
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: stuff together. And, you know, I call her and it's
• 53:21
  Speaker 3: one of those moments as a prosecutor that, you know,
• 53:23
  Speaker 3: you kind of live for in a way.
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: Just wanted to let you know, you know, we filed charges.
• 53:29
  Speaker 3: And there's this pause and she chokes up and she says,
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: against who? I mean, this still gets me goosebumps today.
• 53:36
  Speaker 3: Against who? Against Nanette and Eric. And there's another pause.
• 53:38
  Speaker 3: And she said, for what? I'm going to get set
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: for the murder of your dad. And she just cried
• 53:43
  Speaker 3: and cried. And that's, there's that human element. Right. And
• 53:46
  Speaker 3: it becomes addicting as a prosecutor. Right. If you're doing
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: it right, your, your dedications to these moms and these
• 53:52
  Speaker 3: family members, you know, and when you, when you're in
• 53:55
  Speaker 3: that position where you can actually bring them something, you know, I,
• 53:59
  Speaker 3: I mean, I still miss it. Um, being able to
• 54:01
  Speaker 3: sit down with that family and work with them so
• 54:02
  Speaker 3: that they know that in this horrific thing, there's actually
• 54:06
  Speaker 3: somebody that cares. There's actually somebody that's going to be
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: there in the middle of the night, working with their cops, working,
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: putting it together. doing what it takes to bring justice
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: to their family, as corny as that sounds. And it
• 54:16
  Speaker 3: is like, it becomes the driving force. I think for
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: every good prosecutor out there, it becomes almost like an
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: addiction in and of itself, getting to help people in
• 54:25
  Speaker 3: these really dark moments.
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: So then do you do one whole trial first for
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: Eric and then another whole trial for Nanette?
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: Yes. So I would always, I never liked to do
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: co-defendant trials. I'd rather do the extra work and have
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: one jury assess the behavior of one defendant. Because If
• 54:42
  Speaker 3: they don't, they tend to kind of apportion blame, you know?
• 54:45
  Speaker 3: And I would rather do more work and separate everybody
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: else out and do multiple trials in the same case.
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: So once he gets arrested and his trial starts and
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: she's like, I had no idea. Did Eric do it? Maybe,
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: but I didn't, you know? And how is her team
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: and her attorneys and her watching his trial and realizing
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: once he's convicted, she's way... worse off.
• 55:11
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 55:12
  Speaker 3: So this is one of the unique things about this
• 55:14
  Speaker 3: case is they both had such good legal teams. Eric
• 55:17
  Speaker 3: got a bunch of guys from New York who were fantastic.
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: And a local guy named Gary Polson, who's also now
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: a judge. I mean, it's like these are good lawyers.
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: And I know that any mistake I make, they're going
• 55:27
  Speaker 3: to exploit. And these are these are your heart is
• 55:31
  Speaker 3: in your throat for these. And when you go to
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: court on these things, you're mic'd up and there's cameras
• 55:35
  Speaker 3: in there and the family's in there, depending on you.
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: So they both had really good attorneys.
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: You said these had, they had legal teams are phenomenal.
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: The other is a guy named Nanette had a guy
• 55:43
  Speaker 3: named Mick Hill who is, he's with the public defender's
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: office still. And the guy's fantastic. He's got this Irish accent.
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: So now she couldn't hire, she couldn't afford private attorney.
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: She had to go for a public defender or.
• 55:54
  Speaker 3: She, she went over the public defender. Okay.
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: Because the husband number four or whatever, husband three was like,
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: see ya.
• 56:00
  Speaker 3: I think when he realized he came and he watched
• 56:02
  Speaker 3: the preliminary hearing when we laid out all the evidence, um,
• 56:06
  Speaker 3: And I think he realized at that point that.
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: Well, I got some inside scoop too that he also
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: found out that she was– Ripping him off? No, not
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: ripping him off. She was like cheating and stuff too.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: Oh, I didn't hear that.
• 56:16
  Speaker 3: That's the rumor. It doesn't surprise me a bit. She
• 56:18
  Speaker 3: had like $ 180, 000 in credit card bills that he didn't
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: know about.
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: Oh.
• 56:23
  Speaker 3: So there's like what he thought– the person he thought
• 56:26
  Speaker 3: he was married to, he very quickly learned was a
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: complete fraud.
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: And at that point, when she's going through this, do
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: all the dads then regain custody of the kids? Or
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: is she still being cute mom of four living in
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: La Nero Ridge?
• 56:40
  Speaker 3: Once she's been arrested?
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Waiting trial.
• 56:43
  Speaker 3: So here's the beauty of that. So 15 years before
• 56:46
  Speaker 3: she's decorating that Christmas tree and there's a young narcotics
• 56:49
  Speaker 3: officer in the sand. Fast forward 15 years. He's now
• 56:51
  Speaker 3: the sergeant in charge of this whole thing, working with me.
• 56:54
  Speaker 3: So we had one team in Connecticut arresting Eric.
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 56:57
  Speaker 3: And then we had one team in front of her house.
• 56:59
  Speaker 3: And we did that so that it's early in the morning.
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: And he knocks on the door. And she comes to
• 57:03
  Speaker 3: the door. And she actually tried to close it on them.
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: And he put his foot in the door like that
• 57:07
  Speaker 3: classic scene. Yeah. And she's like, whoop. He goes, hi, Nanette.
• 57:10
  Speaker 3: You remember me? She goes, no. He goes, well, I
• 57:12
  Speaker 3: remember you. Couldn't arrest you back then. But now I
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: get to arrest you. And she goes, for what? He goes,
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: for murder. She goes, which murder? He goes, I don't
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: know how many murders you've committed. This is for the
• 57:23
  Speaker 3: murder of Bill McLaughlin. And out she went. It's just
• 57:26
  Speaker 3: this awesome full circle. And you have to leave.
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: Like that day? Or can you like brush your teeth
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: and get a couple things together?
• 57:34
  Speaker 3: And the thing is also, you're talking about an incredibly
• 57:37
  Speaker 3: vain woman. I mean, everybody's got vanity, right? Right. But
• 57:41
  Speaker 3: this is one who's used her looks to kill a
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: guy and manipulate a bunch of others. So it was
• 57:47
  Speaker 3: early in the morning. Um, and they wanted to do
• 57:49
  Speaker 3: it early in the morning. And, uh, so her booking
• 57:52
  Speaker 3: photo would reflect early in the morning. No, she doesn't
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: get to brush her teeth or get anything together. She's
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: in handcuffs at the doorway. She got charged with special
• 57:59
  Speaker 3: circumstance homicide. So she wasn't out awaiting trial. She was
• 58:02
  Speaker 3: in custody. She was not entitled to bail. So that
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: was her last free moment. And hopefully that'll be the
• 58:06
  Speaker 3: last free moment that woman ever has.
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: So she's behind bars for how long, like a year
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: while you do the other trial?
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: Probably. And look, it's, she gets her trial as fast
• 58:16
  Speaker 3: as she wants, but, um, But yeah, she waved time.
• 58:19
  Speaker 3: We did Eric first and then we did her second.
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: And like in a nutshell, what was her defense?
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: Eric did it in a nutshell. Eric did it. He
• 58:26
  Speaker 3: was a jealous boyfriend. He's the one that did it.
• 58:28
  Speaker 3: I had nothing to do with it. Eric's defense was
• 58:30
  Speaker 3: Nanette did it. I had nothing to do with it.
• 58:32
  Speaker 3: So they do this, you know, and that's common. We
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: expected that, you know, and yeah, which is.
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: And if someone came forward today or someone gets caught
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: and in catching that person, they're like, i am the
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: person that uh nanette hired to kill him right and
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: i was just this like murder for hire dude and
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: whatever would that affect either one of their sentences like
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: wouldn't that what would happen then.
• 59:03
  Speaker 3: Um so uh after eric was convicted we got like
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: remember get smart the old thing would you believe remember
• 59:10
  Speaker 3: that yeah yeah most people have no idea what i'm
• 59:13
  Speaker 3: talking about but anyway yeah try it yeah okay you're
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: an old show you're younger than me.
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: It's an old show i don't think i'm that much
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: younger but anyway.
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: Go on yeah maxwell was smarter than comedy and it
• 59:21
  Speaker 3: was always like whenever you get caught you go well
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: would you believe So we got a would-you-believe moment from
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: Eric where he wanted to interview again. So he's been convicted.
• 59:29
  Speaker 3: It's before sentencing. And it's like, okay, okay, okay. Forget
• 59:32
  Speaker 3: everything I said before. This is what really happened. I
• 59:35
  Speaker 3: knew Nanette was plotting the murder of Bill McLaughlin. And
• 59:38
  Speaker 3: I hooked her up with a shooter. I hooked her
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: up with a hitman. And yeah, I knew they were
• 59:44
  Speaker 3: going to murder him. And yeah, they used my gun.
• 59:47
  Speaker 3: But I had nothing to do with it.
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: But I wasn't the shooter.
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: But I wasn't the shooter. Okay. Being the shooter, I believe, adds... Well,
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: back then in 1994, I think it adds, it's a
• 59:57
  Speaker 3: one-year enhancement. Okay. He copped out. He confessed, according to
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: his latest story, of being an active participant in a
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 3: conspiracy to commit murder for a financial gain. So that's
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: life without possibility of going to prison. His best, last,
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 3: most awesome BS story that he can come up with
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 3: gets him the exact same sentence he already got. Same
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 3: with Nanette. So if a shooter were to come forward,
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 3: and this was the two of them, there is no hit.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: But if there was, if we were wrong, we misunderstood everything,
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: and we didn't, and somebody actually came forward and said that,
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 3: it's the same exact sentence for each one of them.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 3: It perhaps makes it arguably even more diabolical because it
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 3: was more sophisticated than we thought. And they both would absolutely,
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 3: under California law, get the same sentence that they already have.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: Which is both of them have life?
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 3: Life without possibility of parole because this is murder for
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 3: financial gain. Life in California means something very different than
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 3: life these days. Life without possibility of parole means they're
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 3: not entitled to a parole hearing, or at least it's
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 3: 33 years until they are.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: And to your knowledge, do you ever know what they're doing?
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: Is Nanette teaching a yoga class?
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 3: She's teaching dogs. She's in this dog training program. But
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 3: part of the jobs we go and do parole hearings
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 3: is homicide prosecutors. And so we go to prisons around
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: the state and oppose lifers on our old murders that
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 3: are about to get released. And when you go up
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: for a female, you get female deputies. And that's a
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: much smaller world. The amount of women that are in
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 3: prison for murder is obviously a fraction of men. So
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 3: it tends to be one prison that they get sent to.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 3: And the guards would update me on her love life
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: and who she was dating in jail, in prison.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, I've watched Love After Lockup. And I
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: can see why men and women both fall for so many.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: Because it's like, you know, finally... Somebody is there when
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: I call or whatever. I know he's going to call
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: every Sunday at 5, and they get sucked into daily
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: love letters and all that. And then the person in prison,
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: that's the only thing they have going, and they need
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: that person to send them money so they can buy
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: the better food and all that.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 3: Right, right.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: Crazy.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: All right, one more before we go. So I'm up
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: on the Hawks murder. So just describe that and then–
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: it's so crazy what happens to the murderer at the end.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: I was like dying over that part.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So that's, uh, that's, it's a couple, um, that
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 3: had a yacht here in Newport beach and they were
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 3: trying to sell it. They were living on it and
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 3: they were trying to sell it to move back to
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 3: Arizona so that, um, Jackie Hawks could basically raise a child.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 3: She was in a motorcycle accident when she was younger
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 3: and couldn't have kids of her own. So she really
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 3: wanted to, to do this. And so, um, To help
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 3: raise her grandchild. To help raise her grandchild. Grandchild, okay.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 3: Who just graduated from high school, I think. I just
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 3: got a message from the family. And again, you bond
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 3: with this kid.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: Oh, but at the time he was a baby.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 3: He was a baby.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 4: Okay, okay.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 3: So she wants to sell the boat so she can
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 3: help raise this grandchild. And they're into it. And Tom Hawks,
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 3: he loved his boat, but was willing to do that
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 3: because he loved his wife. Okay, so... If you sell
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 3: a house, it's what, like 5% commission, I think, for
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 3: the agent. You sell a boat, it's 15 going rate.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 3: So he decided to try to sell it himself. And
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 3: so they put this ad in Yachting World magazine, and
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 3: they disappear. And they're supposed to be moving. They've got
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 3: family that love them. And they fall off the face
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 3: of the earth. And Tom Hawk's brother was the chief
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 3: of police of Carlsbad Police Department. He's a trained detective.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 3: He comes up looking for his brother, puts a business
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 3: card on the boat, And gets contacted by a woman
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 3: named Jennifer DeLeon, who she said, yeah, my husband and
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 3: I were purchasing the boat. Your brother, you know, we
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 3: paid them for it. They're supposed to teach us how
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 3: to use it. No idea what happened to them. Please
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 3: have them contact us when you get a hold of them. Okay.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 3: And it is a good lie. And then they interview Skylar,
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 3: her husband. And of all my years, my 26 years
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 3: of being a DA, He is the best liar I've
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 3: ever seen. And he's like, hey, look, I we bought
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 3: the boat. We had this this transaction. I paid in cash,
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 3: which is the way he wanted to do it. They
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 3: had a bunch of witnesses. He's like, you can call
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 3: my buddy Alonzo, who's with us. Yeah. So so basically
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 3: they bring Skylar in and he's and I'm monitoring this. OK,
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 3: so so right now we've got a missing couple and
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 3: I'm watching this interview. And, you know, it's embarrassing now,
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 3: but I I he had me. He was so good
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 3: the way he sold his last. He's like, look, we
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 3: bought the boat. And and I'll tell you right now,
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 3: we I paid way more for the boat than what
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 3: we actually recorded. He's like, please don't go to the IRS.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 3: You know, and the way he sold it was so
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 3: was so believable. And these guys, these cops, to their credit,
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 3: you know, I'm the D.A., right? I'm supposed to be
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 3: the smart one. And they're like, no, it's off. It's off.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 3: Just like gut gumshoe police work. And like, really, you know,
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 3: we're going to, you know. And they were right. And basically,
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 3: so this couple goes missing. Their family's like, this is
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 3: totally unlike them. It's right before Thanksgiving. And they interviewed
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 3: this young couple. And they show up with documents saying
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 3: that the Hawks bought the boat. And they had.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: You mean sold the boat.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 3: I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Right. That the Hawks, that they
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 3: bought the boat from the Hawks. So we send the
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 3: forms in to the FBI for forensic analysis. Their fingerprints
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 3: are all over the documents. Their DNA is on the documents.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 3: There is... It's their actual signatures, except one of the
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 3: FBI agents said, you know, there's something off about Jackie
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 3: Hawk's signature. It looks like somebody went in later and
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 3: filled in the S.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 3: So that's, that's, that's one of the, one of the
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 3: pieces to the puzzle. And I had, I had been,
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 3: this is kind of embarrassing. I had to talk about
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 3: like staggering in relationships. I had a relationship with a
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 3: woman where I was, we were together for five years
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 3: and I'd basically been, We broke up and I kind
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 3: of thought we'd get back together. And then she wound
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 3: up getting engaged to somebody else. So I'm like dealing
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 3: with that shock. And I stumbled into my own really
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 3: bad relationship. And fast forward, like, I don't know, about
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 3: a year, maybe a little bit less. I'm at a
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 3: wedding in Napa. And basically, I think it's the only
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 3: time I've ever been cheated on. I catch her making
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 3: out with some old college boyfriend at a wedding of
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 3: her friends.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: Your current girlfriend at the time.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 3: My current girlfriend at the time.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: Wait, you like go around the corner and they're making out?
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 3: I literally go around the corner and they're making out. Yes.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 4: Wait, hold on.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: How far into the, has, is this the reception? Is
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: this the end of the night? Is this still cocktail hour?
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 3: This is the wedding reception at about two o'clock in
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 3: the morning. And this has been, it's just this downward spiral.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 3: The whole relationship sucked. And like, I want to go
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 3: into too many details. This is like, I'm embarrassed to
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 3: say this, but, but so I have a relationship that
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 3: collapses in front of me.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: What did you do? So you turn around the corner,
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 2: you're having, you still have your glass of red wine.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: And she's making up against a wall. And what do
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: you say?
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 3: I walk up and I think actually, you know, and
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 3: I'm trained to use the English language, right? Like that's
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 3: what I make my living. I think it was, I
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 3: think that's all I could get out of my mouth.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 3: And the guy's like, he looks at me and she
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 3: looks at me and he's like, I'm sorry, I didn't know.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 3: And he scurries off. And it was a horribly unhealthy relationship.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 3: It was really bad for me. And it was so
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 3: that I'm finally getting out of it. This is like
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 3: the point where you can't deny it anymore.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: Do you go back to your hotel room together?
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 3: Well, I leave, she follows me and then the drunken
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 3: drama starts, right? Like, oh, but I love you, blah, blah, blah,
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 3: all that sort of thing. I'm like, can't even deal
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 3: with this. I'm walking. So I take a walk. It's
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 3: two o'clock in the morning. We're in Napa, little hotel
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 3: in the middle of nowhere. I go walking past the bar. Now,
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 3: this guy was one of the groomsmen and I'm walking out.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 3: I can't believe I'm telling this story. I'm walking out
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 3: and somebody laughs. And I couldn't hear what he said.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 3: He pops off. And I couldn't hear the words. And being,
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 3: I'm stone cold sober, but I'm also Irish. And I'm like,
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 3: I hear it. And it's like, and this guy's been
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 3: flirting with her all night. He's flirting with her. And
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 3: they used to hook up in college, right? So it's
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 3: 99% on her. But still, he's not respecting the fact
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 3: that I'm like her boyfriend, right? Like, and this wasn't
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 3: like a date. I've been with her for like eight
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 3: or nine months. And it was the worst relationship I've
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 3: ever been in. far and away. And I staggered into
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 3: it because I got my heart broken, deservedly so. I
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 3: deserve that. But anyway, so there I am and he
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 3: pops off and I turn around, I'm like, I do the,
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 3: you know, I should have just kept walking, but I
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 3: do the, what did you say thing?
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 3: And then he comes at me and I don't throw
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 3: any punches, but it's this big, it's like a kerfuffle.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 3: Well, security for the hotel comes over and who knew
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 3: like tiny little hotel has security. And I'm like, I'm like, dude,
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 3: I cannot get hooked. And I didn't, I didn't fight.
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 3: The guy was making out with my girlfriend. Then he
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 3: popped off. Like I'm trying to explain myself and I
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 3: almost got arrested for fighting in the hotel. And I
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 3: finally said, look, I can't get hooked up. And he
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 3: looks at me and he's like, why not? I tell him,
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 3: you know, I shouldn't be saying any of this. I
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 3: guess I can't get fired from the DA's office anymore.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 3: But I'm like, look, I'm a deputy DA. I've got
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 3: one year in the homicide unit. If I get arrested,
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 3: my career's done. I didn't do anything wrong. I'm like,
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 3: I will go back to my room. I'll check out
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 3: right now. Whatever it takes. And, um, and he goes,
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 3: you're a DA. He goes, I'm an off-duty police officer.
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 3: I work security here. I moonlight. The cops are on
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 3: their way. It's like, take a walk. So this guy
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 3: does me a huge solid. I'm out on the 18th
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 3: green of this golf course next to this hotel with
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 3: my best friend from law school. Um, this guy, Stefan Cohn,
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 3: who's one of the smartest guys I know going, dude.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 3: And then she was making out and he's been, he'd been,
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 3: he didn't like her from the get-go. And he's like,
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 3: I told you she was bad news. I'm like, maybe
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 3: I should just go explain it to the cops. And
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 3: he's like, Listen to me, dumbass.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: Just walk away.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 3: Listen to me like you've never listened to me before.
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 3: You're not talking to the police. You will hitchhike home first.
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 3: Leave your bag. If you got your wallet, your cell phone,
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 3: it's all you need. You're not going back into the
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 3: hotel unless and until the police leave. You don't talk
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 3: to security guard. You're only getting your bag and then
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 3: you're out. She's passed out. So basically, I wind up
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 3: on a... I want to get away from the whole thing.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 3: I'm like... There's so much psychological stuff here that we
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 3: could get into, but I've basically blown... I haven't processed...
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 3: this relationship, you know, cause I got right into this
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 3: really bad one that took all my time.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 3: Like, yes. So now I'm, now I'm dealing with all
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 3: of that. And like, no matter how bad the relationship is,
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 3: that's still a really shocking thing to walk into. And
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 3: I'm like, my self-esteem is at a low, professionally, I'm
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 3: on a rocket going up, but personally, uh, I I've
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 3: dated the worst woman I've ever dated. And so I
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 3: hop on a surf trip with a bunch of buddies.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 3: It's there's a bunch of my friends are going to
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 3: Indonesia for three days. And I went up on this
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 3: boat with this guy, named Gary Burns, who I love
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 3: to death to this day. And he was a boat
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 3: guy and very, very early on, probably early twenties, he
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 3: moved onto a sailboat and that's what he did. And
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 3: he is, he's a good guy, like law abiding guy,
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 3: but he, he was cruising around with people that were,
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 3: he knew criminals and drug dealers and all that because
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 3: of the boating world. Right. And so I spend, I
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 3: spent a couple of weeks on a boat with him and,
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 3: you know, you surf all day and then you, you
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 3: talk at night and he He's telling stories and all that.
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 3: So fast forward now to the Hawks murder. We have
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 3: no idea what happened to these people. I suspect that
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 3: Skyler Dillon and his wife have done it, but we've
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 3: got four months go by. Everybody's telling the same story.
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 3: We cannot break this case. And these are really nice
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 3: people who have disappeared off the face of the earth.
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 3: But forensically on the boat, there's no sign of violence.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 3: There's no blood. There's no DNA. And it was almost
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 3: too clean. We did a bunch of forensic workups. There's
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 3: no fingerprints belonging to them. There's no DNA belonging. which
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 3: is weird for a boat that they lived on for
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 3: two years. And so we're desperate. And these are my
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 3: Newport guys. And I, I reached out to Gary Burns,
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 3: you know, like if anybody knows what we should be
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 3: looking for on a boat where a murder happened, maybe
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 3: it's Gary. And it's kind of scary how quickly he
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 3: had the answer. He's like, he goes, Hey man, if you're,
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 3: if you guys suspect there's a murder that happened on
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 3: a boat and they're selling it, there'll be an inventory.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 3: Anchors are a big deal. Look for a missing anchor.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 3: And sure enough, they've been staring us in the face
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 3: the entire time. There was a, there was a missing
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 3: anchor on the boat. And at that moment I knew
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 3: I was going to be able to charge him. And
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 3: I knew he was going to be able to convict
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 3: Scott Dillian. So we wound up, I charged him for
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 3: the fraud that he admitted to. So we still try
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 3: to accumulate the evidence on the case. And then it
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 3: wound up like we wound up flipping the notary. There
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 3: was a notary public that signed the stuff. And we
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 3: did a search warrant on a go-between. So there's a
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 3: notary that, that, that stamped all the documents indicating the
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 3: sale of the boat. And she had a friend that
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 3: knew Skylar DeLeon. And one of the things the notary
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 3: always described this transaction as Jackie Hawks having brown curly hair.
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 3: And when she moved on the boat, she cut her
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 3: hair really short and dyed it blonde. So easier to
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 3: maintain on a boat, right? So when we do the
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 3: search warrant on Adam Roerig's house, that's the go-between, we
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 3: find a crumpled up driver's license photo of Jackie Hawks
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 3: with brown curly hair. So she'd never seen Jackie Hawks.
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 3: She based her description on the driver's license photo. And
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 3: it was like, and with that information, we were able
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 3: to go back to her and her lawyer.
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: So the notary notarized something without the human being there.
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 3: Yes. She was in on it. But she didn't know
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 3: it was a murder. It was after the fact.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay.
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 3: They said, we want you to backdate these documents. And
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 3: they paid her like $ 5, 000 in cash or whatever it was. So,
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 3: and she had held her story for four months. We
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 3: interviewed her five or six times. Everybody stuck with the
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 3: same story. There was her, there was Alonzo Machin, who
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 3: was one of the conspirators on this thing. They kept
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 3: telling us the same story. We had no bodies. We
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 3: had no evidence on the boat. So we were dead
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 3: ended until Gary gave me the tip about the anchors.
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 3: So it's kind of weird how personal life goes into
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 3: surf trip, which winds up coming back on this really
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 3: big case. And once we've had the missing anchor, Um,
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 3: that was, that was huge for us. And then we
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 3: arrest Skylar for this, for the fraud, for the admitted
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 3: monitoring money laundering with this whole other crazy story you told.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 3: And then, um, then it's their, their little house card
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 3: started falling apart. And what happened was, um, they put
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 3: together this plot to murder these people, to steal their
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 3: boat and to get into their bank accounts. And they
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 3: had like these things notarized and then you come back
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 3: to the S and the way you present that to
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 3: the jury is. What they did is they took them
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 3: out to sea and they overpowered them. They tasered Jackie
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 3: Hawks and they tasered Tom Hawks. And there was this guy,
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 3: John Kennedy, who's a founding member of the Long Beach
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 3: Insane Crips, this huge, big, violent guy. And Skyler, they
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 3: physically subdued Tom. One of the other ones subdues Jackie.
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 3: And they handcuffed them together and they forced them to
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 3: sign all these things as they take them out to sea.
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 3: And what happened was they tied them to an anchor
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 3: and they threw them overboard.
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: That is so horrific.
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 3: It's like that old thing around.
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: They showed that in the, you know, the TV show
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 2: that you sent me to, like the way they like
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 2: described it. I was like, I cannot imagine something more
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 2: horrific that you're going down alive.
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 3: Right. No. Well, it's like that camp, that camp story
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 3: that we'd all tell as kids, right? Like what would
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 3: be worse? You know, who would win it? Grizzly bear
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 3: versus gray white shark in three feet of water. What's
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 3: the worst way to die to freeze to death or
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 3: to burn up? Like, We've all had that conversation at
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 3: one point. And that is the most awful way I
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 3: can imagine people dying. And they're tied to an anchor
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 3: begging for their lives. And they're thrown overboard with no
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 3: provision for their physical suffering at all. At that point,
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 3: there was something that needed to be disposed of.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: And then the other thing is he took them on
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: the boat and felt comfortable with these three guys because
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 2: Skyler brought his cute wife. his cute pregnant wife and
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: baby there.
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 2: And so they appeared like this adorable Newport couple.
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 3: And imagine from Jackie Hawk's perspective, she's all about babies
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 3: at this point. They're selling their boats. So when you've
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 3: got a couple with a baby, it's going to let,
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 3: we're going to let our guard down, but it also
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 3: shows how utterly diabolical, utterly diabolical this was. So Jackie
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 3: Hawks though. So there's like, there's two acts of defiance
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 3: on the boat. One is Tom Hawks fights. When they're
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 3: tied up, he kicks Skyler. He's blindfolded. He's duct taped.
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 3: But his feet are free. Kicks Skyler almost overboard. But
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 3: there's a chair there and it breaks his fall. And
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 3: then Kennedy comes over and punches Tom Hawks and hopefully
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 3: knocks him out. But he's out of the fight. The
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 3: other act of defiance was when Jackie Hawks was being
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 3: forced to sign these things. And she wrote Jackie Hawk. Okay,
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 3: not Jackie Hawks. There's an S. Jackie Hawk. Now they
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 3: caught it. and they added the S, but they didn't
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 3: know what her S's looked like. So when you think
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 3: about that, the way you present that to a jury
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 3: is that's an act of defiance. That's basically like shooting
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 3: a flare off into the future. This is a woman
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 3: who knows she's about to die a horrible death and
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 3: she wants it to be made right. So ladies and
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 3: gentlemen of the jury, who is that woman talking to?
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 3: The police can gather evidence, but they can't make it right.
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 3: I can present it, but I can't make it right.
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 3: The only people who can make this right or you, right.
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 3: That woman was talking to you. That woman was making
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 3: sure that somebody in the future was going to hold
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 3: them accountable for what they did. And the people that
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 3: she was reaching out to, that's you, you know, and that's,
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 3: you know, and because it's true. And that's one of
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 3: those things that like, if you can get a jury
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 3: to understand the enormity, um, and it's not tough if
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 3: you've got good people of some of these murders to
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 3: kill people for money, um, they will always do in
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 3: my experience.
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 2: And so he gets convicted, Skylar, but also his wife does.
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 3: Right. So one of the things that happened behind the
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 3: scenes on that is as we're trying to put this
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 3: thing together and we can't, we have no break, we
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 3: go to her and she has a fantastic lawyer. Again,
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 3: Mike Molfetta, who's as talented as anybody is, he's in
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 3: Orange County where we used to be, we were colleagues
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 3: in the DA's office a million years ago. And he's
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 3: a very good man and just phenomenally talented. And I
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 3: told Mike, it's like, look, we want to roll her,
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 3: you know, let's flip her. I know she knows what happened,
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 3: you know, but we thought at the time, you know,
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 3: she's the wife and she's somewhere on the periphery. And
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 3: that's something that you commonly see. And this is also
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 3: when I'm pretty early in my homicide career before I
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 3: encountered enough evil spouses that are actually up to their
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 3: eyeballs in it, like Nanette. But it's like, look, I'll
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 3: give her transactional immunity if she just tells us what happened.
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 3: Transactional immunity is immunity, immunity. You know, confess to anything.
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 3: You have immunity. And she turned it down because young
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 3: love prevailed. And she was visiting him in the jail.
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 3: And she had a chance never to do a single
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 3: day in jail. And she turned it down, basically said,
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 3: screw you. No bodies, no murder. And she went and
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 3: visited him. And we were recording all the conversations. And
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 3: one of the things they would whisper a lot. And
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 3: that was one of the quotes. It was barely perceptible.
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 3: We had to enhance. Skylar said, remember, no bodies, no
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 3: murder to her. And so when we made that offer,
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 3: lo and behold, that's what she went with. No bodies,
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 3: no murder. And thank God, because as we got into it,
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 3: and we eventually rolled the lawns out. we realized that
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 3: she was up to her eyeballs in it from the
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 3: word go.
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 2: So the other guy, Alonzo, told everything.
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he laid everything out. So he came and turned
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 3: himself in. He fled to Mexico where he was, I think,
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 3: originally born. So he was a citizen down there. And
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 3: he came up, turned himself in, and he got 20
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 3: years for it. But we had him testify against him.
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 3: And he explained the whole plot. He explained how he
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 3: met Skylar, like everything. And he told us about this
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 3: event where Skylar comes onto the boat with Alonzo and
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 3: Tom Hawks. And he said Tom Hawks was super suspicious.
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 3: And basically, he hears Skyler call Jennifer and say, you
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 3: need to come back. I'm going to come up and
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 3: get you. You need to come back down here and
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 3: you need to bring Haley, their daughter, to put these
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 3: people at ease. And then when we look at the
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 3: phone records, right when Alonzo said that phone call was made,
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 3: sure enough, phone call from Skyler to Jennifer. And then
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 3: they talk all the way up the 405 freeway. And
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 3: then they stop talking. And then her phone pings again
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 3: in Newport Beach. which is all the corroboration that, you know,
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 3: because they're not, they're not communicating anymore because they're together.
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 3: And then her phone is in Newport beach, which is
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 3: exactly what Alonzo said. So we get these corroborating bits
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 3: of information.
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 2: And then how much time did she get?
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 3: Life without possibility of parole.
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 2: And the Alonzo, I saw that he was up for,
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 2: I guess, parole September, 2021. Do you know if he.
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 3: Um, uh, I, you know, I didn't, I don't know
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 3: what the date was that he was up for on that. Um,
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 3: But he'll get out because it was a determinate sentence.
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 3: So we gave him 20 for that. And in retrospect,
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 3: you know, we did not know about John Kennedy until
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 3: we flipped Alonzo. So Alonzo basically took, he did the
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 3: right thing at the end. He was basically a dupe
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 3: for Schuyler. And he knew what was going on and
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 3: he deserved his 20 years. But what he gave us,
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 3: he gave us a whole third conspirator and he gave
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 3: us the details of what happened on the boat. And
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 3: imagine this. One of the things he told us is
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 3: he was in charge of monitoring them as they were
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 3: going out to sea. So it's dark, it's November, it's cold,
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 3: and they're on the bed that they've spent the last
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 3: two years of their life together on. It's the state room.
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 3: They're on the bed, and they're handcuffed and duct taped
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 3: back to back. And Jackie Hawks is crying because she
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 3: knows she's going to her death. And Tom Hawks, back
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 3: to back, is stroking her hand, saying, it's okay, we're
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 3: going to be together. We're going to be together. You know,
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 3: I mean, just, you know, so poignant, a human moment.
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 3: And the family wouldn't know those details, as brutal as
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 3: that is to hear, if we hadn't flipped Alonzo and
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 3: if he hadn't cooperated. And the guy was too stupid
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 3: to lie.
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 2: And now the craziest end of the story. So Skylar
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 2: then declares, I'm a woman.
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 3: Declares, I'm a woman.
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 3: And I'm pretty sure we as taxpayers in the state
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 3: of California, and I'm very moderate, but I'm pretty sure
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 3: we are paying for his transition. And it's like, look,
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 3: nobody's Nobody's more pro human happiness than me, especially if
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 3: I've received so much death and destruction for as long
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 3: as I did. Whatever it takes people to be happy,
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 3: I'm in, okay? But when somebody commits three murders, and
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 3: it wasn't just Tom and Jackie Hawks because of the
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 3: investigation we found out, he'd also murdered a guy named
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 3: John Peter Jarvie down in Mexico. And we prosecuted him
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 3: for that as well, which is its own crazy story.
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 3: You commit three murders and you're in prison. Spending money
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 3: to make that person happy I don't know.
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 2: I'm not for that.
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 3: I'm sorry. That's something I think we need a broader
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 3: public discussion on.
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 2: And I mean, does that mean that maybe you don't
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 2: know the answer? So is Skylar now going to be
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 2: on death row in a woman's prison?
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 3: Great question. But here's another thing. Here's my problem.
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: And does Skylar get a boob job?
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: Because female prisoners get boob jobs?
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 3: Every single thing that guy does is a manipulation. So
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 3: it's not real. It's not like he'll go through the
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 3: process because he'll get all that special attention. He'll find,
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 3: he'll find allies in, in, you know, in different communities
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 3: and who I support completely. I think we all do. Right. Like,
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 3: you know, I've worked with transgender people before and I
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 3: freaking love them. Like I've no, it's.
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 2: Not about that. It's just another like, really? And then also,
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 2: how do you feel like the woman that is not
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 2: that she's an awful person too, but like what? Like
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 2: now you're telling me that this whole time you were
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 2: a woman and, I mean, there's no doubt that the
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 2: guy or girl obviously probably had a fucked up childhood
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 2: to be such a fucked up person. But this is
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 2: just like the topper.
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 2: You're like, really?
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 3: And that's another interesting thing. We were talking about broad
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 3: categories of murderers. One of the myths that's out there,
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 3: like I've done a bunch of serial killer cases, which
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 3: I'd love to come back and talk to you about sometime. Yeah,
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 3: let's do it. We have this myth post-mortem. Silence of
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 3: the Lambs, I think, where we think about Buffalo Bill
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 3: and like there's this cultural thing where a serial killer
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 3: must have been horribly abused. Right. In my experience, they're spoiled.
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 3: They're spoiled. And Skyler claimed to have had a really
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 3: jacked up childhood. And one of the things he did
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 3: in the penalty phase is actually put his mom on.
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 3: Talk about how we were into partying, we were into drugs. And,
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 3: you know, there's a time that little Skyler fell in
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 3: a swimming pool and, you know, he turned blue and
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 3: how terrifying that was. And as a general rule, you never,
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 3: you always be nice to the moms when they testify
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 3: as a general rule. Okay. But here she is, you know,
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 3: talking about how in a factor in mitigation was Skylar
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 3: falling in a pool and almost drowning when he was
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 3: a little boy. And it's like, okay, was that scary
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 3: for him? And I decided to cross her. Was that scary?
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 3: Was that awful? Was that, you know, did he seem scared?
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 3: Right. Was he tied to an anchor? You know, like, yeah.
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 3: And it's like, How dare they? Really, that's what he...
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 3: There's a near drowning as a kid. So he would
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 3: know how bad it is then. That even makes it worse.
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 3: It makes it worse. It makes it a thousand times worse.
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 3: And look, that's one of those things. That guy's life,
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 3: it was not a product of abuse. It's a product
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 3: of him being a psychopathic, like maniacal human. Somebody could
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 3: look somebody in the eye knowing that they're going to
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 3: tie him to an anchor and throw him overboard. Not
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 3: kill them first, not at least put them out of
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 3: their misery, drown them. And the thing is, how do
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 3: you cry and hold your breath at the same time?
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 3: You know, I mean, picture that in freezing cold water.
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 3: And that's how Jackie Hawks met her end. Screw that guy.
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 3: You know, I mean, just on an emotional of like,
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 3: are you freaking kidding me? And here's something that everybody
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 3: should know. Like, there's this thing floating around out there that, oh,
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 3: Skylar did this to get the money so he could
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 3: have his surgery. That's complete bullshit. Um, Skylar had $ 50, 000
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 3: in cash the day he murdered John Jarvie. Okay. And
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 3: that the transgender surgery is shockingly inexpensive. There was a
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 3: surgeon in Colorado and I think it was like back
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 3: in those days, I think it was like $ 36, 000 to
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 3: have the surgery done.
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 3: Which is kind of, I would think it would be more,
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 3: but he had 50 grand in cash and they bought
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 3: a car with it. He bought a $ 800 sex toy,
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 3: a piston driven like dildo thing the same day. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 3: Same day, which by the way, funny stories of, you know,
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 3: like gallows humor, um, in the heart of every detective
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 3: there's beats a 17 year old boy or girl, right? Like,
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 3: and there's a, one of the detectives will leave his
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 3: name out, but they, when we did the search warrant
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 3: on Skylar's house, they live with her parents who are
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 3: very religious kind of Uber, like churchgoers towards like kind
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 3: of Bible thumper types.
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 3: And, um, And of course, there's 10 police cars out
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 3: in front of the house. And every neighbor that they
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 3: have is outside watching this. And when they find this thing,
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 3: it is a piston driven dildo. And so one of
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 3: the detectives throws on latex gloves and carries that thing
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 3: out by the business end, flopping around with all the neighbors.
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 3: And Jennifer's mother came running out of the house going,
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 3: that's not mine. That's not mine. Don't know what you're
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 3: talking about, man. Loaded into the evidence, man.
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 2: You know, we definitely need to get together more. But
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 2: the other thing I was going to say is just,
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 2: you know, Jennifer's a piece of shit too, but I mean,
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 2: the amount of women that are probably doing a hard
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 2: time because they fell in love with the wrong man
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 2: is something that needs to be explored a lot more
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 2: because it's like, really?
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 2: You know, I mean, come on.
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 3: Well, she was like the phone records in that when he,
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 3: when Skylar printed out documents for the boat sale, and
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 3: you compare the computer records with the phone records, first
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 3: thing he did was call her. And then he goes
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 3: back on and modifies the documents more online. And then
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 3: gets down to Newport Beach the day of the murder,
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 3: calls Jennifer. They head out to sea, calls Jennifer. They
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 3: get out right when the boat does the U-turn, right
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 3: when they threw them overboard, calls Jennifer. So she is
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 3: a part of that. She's on the boat in every
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 3: way that physically. And he is She, every single step
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 3: of the way, and she was the critical element, Tom
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 3: Hawks did not trust them until she brought that baby
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 3: on the boat. You know, and it's like, there are
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 3: lots of women, certainly, that got brought into things because
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 3: they were with their man who did it, right? There's
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 3: tons of them. But there are also, and I made
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 3: this mistake. When I offered her transactional immunity, believing that
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 3: she was on the periphery, you know, when it turns
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 3: out up to her frigging eyeballs and all of it,
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 3: including the murder of John Jarvie, you know, and like,
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 3: as that was a couple made for each other, right.
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 3: You know, and everybody suffered as a result. Wow.
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 2: Well, Matt, I know I'm no Keith Morrison or Josh Mankiewicz,
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 2: but I am thrilled that you came here. So juicy. Um,
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 2: Love to the Loyola Cubs and all those good boys
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 2: over there as my boy screams upstairs at video games.
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Tell everybody about your show that's
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 2: out now and where they can follow you and everything else.
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you. So I've just kind of gotten active
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 3: with Instagram. So it's Matt Murphy's Law on Instagram. And
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 3: there's a new show out called Fatal Flaw on ABC.
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 3: I signed a deal with ABC and they're fantastic the
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 3: way they treat me. So they brought me in on
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 3: the series. Which is kind of, let me plug it
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 3: real quick. There's an old technique before photographs in the
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 3: early 1800s where they would actually build dollhouses so the
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 3: juries could see a reenactment of the crime scene. And
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 3: I never knew this before. And so there was a
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 3: female detective in New York in the 1800s, probably worthy
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 3: of her own story, who would construct these things based
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 3: on murders in New York. So what a guy named
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 3: David Sloan, who's the head of Hulu, who is, I
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 3: love the man. He came up with this idea. Let's
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 3: reconstruct some of these old murder scenes. So they have
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 3: these doll houses and the amount of detail that went
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 3: into it. A couple of these were my cases and
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 3: I couldn't believe how spot on it was. So they've
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 3: reconstructed these things and it's called Fatal Flaw. And they
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 3: basically analyze these cases and say, what was the big
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 3: mistake that the killer made? And it's on Hulu right now.
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 3: They're about to drop this week. I think they'll drop
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 3: the fourth or fifth episode. And it's worth a watch.
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 3: It's only an hour.
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 2: No, we'll watch it for sure.
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 2: Good stuff.
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much. This is great.
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 3: No, I loved it. Thank you for having me.
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 2: From morning swims in Sandy Cove to coffee in Ranala
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 2: or walks along Sandy Mount Strand. At a certain point,
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 2: where you live shapes how you live. Maybe you want
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• 1:31:08
  Speaker 2: more like where you are now.
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 1: On daft.ie, you can explore the most sought-after homes for
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