Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / KILLER LAWYER ALEX MURDAUGH ESCAPES MURDER CONVICTION, CASE REVERSED

Transcript

KILLER LAWYER ALEX MURDAUGH ESCAPES MURDER CONVICTION, CASE REVERSED · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Killer lawyer Alex Murdoch escapes his murder convictions. That's right,
0:06
Speaker 1: the case reversed. Good evening. I mean, see, Grace, this
0:10
Speaker 1: is crime stories. I want to thank you for being
0:12
Speaker 1: with us. Tell me it's not true. Yes I predicted it,
0:24
Speaker 1: but please tell me it's not true. Sources stating there's
0:26
Speaker 1: a unanimous vote coming down for reversal.
0:29
Speaker 2: I think it is true. I think we might be
0:31
Speaker 2: looking at a new trial.
0:33
Speaker 1: There's going to be a reversal because Alex's sixth Amendment
0:37
Speaker 1: right to a fair and impartial jury trial may have
0:40
Speaker 1: been compromised. The bombshell has left a crater and it's
0:45
Speaker 1: mighty wide straight out to Jennifer Wood, joining US director
0:48
Speaker 1: Research Fits News. Well, nobody believed us last week when
0:53
Speaker 1: we reported the case is getting reversed, and it has been.
0:58
Speaker 1: What happened.
1:01
Speaker 2: The Supreme Court ruled unanimously that Alex Murdoch trial was
1:09
Speaker 2: not fair, that the jury tampering affected the verdict, and
1:14
Speaker 2: they have remanded it back to the Circuit Court for
1:17
Speaker 2: further proceedings and likely a new trial.
1:20
Speaker 1: Well, what alternative is there, Jennifer Wood? Do you actually
1:23
Speaker 1: think there won't be a new trial? And the state
1:25
Speaker 1: will take a plea and the defense will take a plea.
1:28
Speaker 2: I don't see that happening me either. I do not
1:31
Speaker 2: anticipate a plea. I believe we are looking at a
1:33
Speaker 2: new trial, and based on Attorney General Ellen Wilson's comments yesterday,
1:38
Speaker 2: we're looking at a new trial sooner rather than later.
1:42
Speaker 1: Jennifer Wood, what was the grounds of reversal?
1:45
Speaker 2: The grounds of reversal was that former clerk up court,
1:50
Speaker 2: Callington County, Becky Hill, had had conversations with jurors about
1:57
Speaker 2: specifically Alex's testimony days he sat on the stand and testified,
2:02
Speaker 2: telling them, you know, to watch his body language. This
2:07
Speaker 2: is a big day and apparent you know. According to
2:11
Speaker 2: the Supreme Court, that is enough to overturn that verdict
2:17
Speaker 2: and send it back.
2:18
Speaker 1: According to a couple of jurors, the clerk of court,
2:22
Speaker 1: Becky Hill, made comments that led them to believe she
2:27
Speaker 1: thought Murdoch was guilty, and they claim that affected their verdict.
2:33
Speaker 1: John Mobley joining US veterman trial lawyer with John Mobley
2:37
Speaker 1: Law Firm out of South Carolina. John, thank you for
2:40
Speaker 1: being with us. John, With all of that evidence, how
2:45
Speaker 1: could they vote any other way? And you know, what well, John,
2:49
Speaker 1: could you take a look at your screen. I'm gonna
2:51
Speaker 1: show Murdock on the stand snodding and crying and having
2:54
Speaker 1: to admit he lied. He had to admit under oath
2:59
Speaker 1: that he lied under oath. He snotted and cried and
3:03
Speaker 1: carried on and ended up having to place himself at
3:06
Speaker 1: the crime scene when digital forensics had already placed him there.
3:10
Speaker 1: Then finally he drags up on the standing with yeah,
3:14
Speaker 1: I lied. I mean, really, there was so much evidence.
3:18
Speaker 1: You really think the clerk with her off hand comments
3:23
Speaker 1: caused a guilty verdict? John Mobley from our friends at WLTV, Well.
3:28
Speaker 3: You know, Nancy, I got a call it like I
3:29
Speaker 3: see it a lot to impact on what you said.
3:33
Speaker 3: The first thing I'm going to say is I'm going
3:34
Speaker 3: to disagree with your statement about how much evidence there was.
3:38
Speaker 3: I mean, I think there's certainly plenty of evidence that
3:40
Speaker 3: Alex mrdal is a liar and a thief and a
3:43
Speaker 3: generally despicable human being. But when you take that out
3:47
Speaker 3: of the case, when you take out the evidence of
3:50
Speaker 3: him stealing money from clients in his firm and being
3:53
Speaker 3: a liar and thief, and you focus on the circumstantial
3:57
Speaker 3: because it's not direct, but the circumstantial evidence that correct
4:01
Speaker 3: them to connection to the murder at best is tenuous.
4:05
Speaker 3: I really think the only thing they had to kind
4:07
Speaker 3: of connect them was the opportunity based on his voice
4:11
Speaker 3: being on the snapchat. So that's the first thing I
4:14
Speaker 3: want to say now regarding whether or not the decision
4:17
Speaker 3: was right, I completely agree with the decision one hundred percent.
4:20
Speaker 3: It was the right thing to do. I mean, you know,
4:23
Speaker 3: in South Carolina, you know that the standard and a
4:25
Speaker 3: case like this under these circumstances, you know, people referred
4:28
Speaker 3: to it as jury tampering. It's not technically jury tampering.
4:32
Speaker 3: In South Carolina. The standard or the issue is whether
4:35
Speaker 3: or not there was an improper communication with the jurors
4:40
Speaker 3: such that it probably affected the outcome. So clearly there
4:44
Speaker 3: was a communication by the clerk of court, another despicable,
4:47
Speaker 3: dishonest human being here in South Carolina, our lovely state.
4:51
Speaker 3: Clearly there was a you know communication, It was clearly improper,
4:56
Speaker 3: and the litmus test, you know, the million dollars question,
4:59
Speaker 3: is whether or not that communication possibly affected the outcome. Well,
5:04
Speaker 3: the hearing that drew that testified testified that it probably
5:07
Speaker 3: did affect your decision. So, I mean, once I heard that,
5:10
Speaker 3: I was actually shocked that the decision was to set
5:13
Speaker 3: us out. The trial was denied at the hearing, so
5:15
Speaker 3: it was the one d per right thing to do.
5:18
Speaker 1: Well. I gotta tell you, John Mobley, there's no question
5:22
Speaker 1: in my mind that Alex murnag is guilty. But the
5:27
Speaker 1: question I have right now is should I believe you
5:31
Speaker 1: are my lion eyes? Because I want you to look
5:36
Speaker 1: and listen to this video. Get back, get back.
5:50
Speaker 4: Quick, cash question? Get hey got burdens now?
6:06
Speaker 5: Oh brother, it's a come a cash quick.
6:17
Speaker 1: So isn't it true? Dave Matt Crime Story's investigative reporter,
6:23
Speaker 1: that it was proven in court under oath that the
6:25
Speaker 1: voice heard in the dog kennel the scene of the
6:28
Speaker 1: murders is in fact killer lawyer Alex Murdoch. That's a yes.
6:33
Speaker 6: No.
6:34
Speaker 1: Wasn't that proven in court? Absolutely?
6:37
Speaker 7: Yes?
6:39
Speaker 1: And a mac. Isn't it true that after calling in
6:44
Speaker 1: the secret service to unlock Paul's phone, it was determined
6:49
Speaker 1: that snapchat was sent just minutes before Paul and Maggie
6:54
Speaker 1: were gunned down, less than five minutes.
6:58
Speaker 8: Yep, that was recorded eight four pm June seven, twenty one.
7:04
Speaker 1: So John Mobley, you're a veteran defense attorney with the
7:09
Speaker 1: Mobley Law firm. John, he places himself at the scene
7:15
Speaker 1: of the crime, with that video that he hoped would
7:19
Speaker 1: never be uncovered, and then his own digital footprint that
7:24
Speaker 1: he left behind. Can't you just see him in the
7:27
Speaker 1: dark there at Mozille running, can't see anything but butthole
7:31
Speaker 1: and elbows, running away from the scene, his wife and
7:35
Speaker 1: his son bleeding out in the dirt. Then he jumps
7:39
Speaker 1: in his car and unbeknownst to him, everything he did
7:42
Speaker 1: would be digitally recorded with the vehicle. The SUV's black box,
7:47
Speaker 1: so to speak, shows when he cranked up, put it
7:50
Speaker 1: in reverse, put it in drive, scratched off like Moody's goose,
7:56
Speaker 1: slowed down, let his driver's side win down electronically, where
8:02
Speaker 1: coincidently Maggie's phone was thrown out on the side of
8:05
Speaker 1: the road. Then he scratched off to hide out at
8:08
Speaker 1: his mommy's place. He's there at the scene of the
8:13
Speaker 1: crime less than five minutes before they're murdered. He placed
8:19
Speaker 1: himself at the scene, John, What are you saying somebody
8:23
Speaker 1: else did well?
8:24
Speaker 3: I mean well, number one it's his house. He's kind
8:27
Speaker 3: of going to be at the scene. I mean, so
8:29
Speaker 3: I don't think that's a surprise. So I mean, I
8:31
Speaker 3: think you.
8:32
Speaker 6: Know you're.
8:36
Speaker 1: At your house, but not with two dead bodies on
8:39
Speaker 1: the dining room floor.
8:41
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's you know, you're taking one circumstance and
8:45
Speaker 3: you're and you're eliminating all other possibilities and you're not
8:48
Speaker 3: really talking about what's missing in the case. And when
8:51
Speaker 3: I say that, keep in mind, the circumstances of this murder,
8:56
Speaker 3: these two murders are are very, you know, distinct. I mean,
9:00
Speaker 3: you have two different weapons, not just two different firearms
9:03
Speaker 3: that were used, you have two different long firearms that
9:07
Speaker 3: were used to murder two people in close proximity. And
9:12
Speaker 3: I think there's you would I think you'd have to
9:14
Speaker 3: agree with me that it really doesn't make a whole
9:17
Speaker 3: lot of sense for one individual to use two separate
9:19
Speaker 3: long weapons to commit two murders in close proximity.
9:24
Speaker 1: Put them up.
9:25
Speaker 3: Excuse me, So I think you have that issue.
9:30
Speaker 1: Mister Mobley, ma'am, yes, you do know that. Before I
9:35
Speaker 1: sat in this anchor chair, I tried nothing but felonies
9:40
Speaker 1: in inner city Atlanta, which was then one of the
9:42
Speaker 1: murder capitals of the world. Does it make sense? Let
9:47
Speaker 1: me ask you query, Does it make sense to gun
9:50
Speaker 1: down your own son and wife just because they're about
9:53
Speaker 1: to crack your financial crimes wide open and you're gonna
9:57
Speaker 1: lose a whole heap of money? Is that a sensible
10:01
Speaker 1: solution to financial undoing? I submit no. But yet he
10:05
Speaker 1: did it, so it doesn't have to make sense because
10:09
Speaker 1: nothing about double murder makes sense. He owned firearms exactly
10:14
Speaker 1: like the firearms that were used, so yeah, it makes
10:16
Speaker 1: perfect sense. And guess what he stores at Mozelle his firearms.
10:21
Speaker 1: And when you say circumstantial circumstantial, isn't it true, mister Mobley,
10:26
Speaker 1: that the law is I want to see him. The
10:30
Speaker 1: law is, and is in the judge's jury instructions that
10:34
Speaker 1: circumstantial evidence under the law is as powerful as the
10:38
Speaker 1: jury so deems as direct evidence. Isn't that the law?
10:45
Speaker 1: The law is.
10:46
Speaker 3: Circumstantial evidence is good evidence. However, the chain of circumstances
10:51
Speaker 3: can only lead you that one conclusion and cannot you
10:54
Speaker 3: have to eliminate other reasonable inferences based on those circumstances.
10:58
Speaker 3: And I do believe, and I've said it from the
10:59
Speaker 3: beginning that the circumstances of these murders lead to more
11:03
Speaker 3: than one inference that he committed the crimes. And I
11:05
Speaker 3: want to address what you're saying about the financial crimes,
11:07
Speaker 3: because what you're saying is consistent with the prosecution's theory.
11:12
Speaker 3: But I've always said that was a red herring. I've
11:14
Speaker 3: always had that as a mistake because and let's talk
11:17
Speaker 3: about that. You know, this whole thing that he was
11:20
Speaker 3: going to commit the murders to somehow derail the financial
11:24
Speaker 3: investigation makes no sense whatsoever. I mean, that train was
11:27
Speaker 3: coming down the tracks, whether his wife and son got
11:31
Speaker 3: murdered or not, that was not going to erase the
11:33
Speaker 3: ink in those financial records. And he got away with
11:37
Speaker 3: that for years. Why would he not think he will
11:40
Speaker 3: continue to get away with it, or could buy his
11:42
Speaker 3: way out of it, or could pay everybody off. I mean,
11:45
Speaker 3: there are so many others.
11:46
Speaker 1: Tell you what, if you will take a breath, I
11:49
Speaker 1: will tell you what. The reason it had happened now
11:53
Speaker 1: is because Maggie wanted a divorce. Up until this moment,
11:56
Speaker 1: she had not wanted a divorce, but now she does
11:59
Speaker 1: want a divorce. I wonder why she would have legal
12:04
Speaker 1: discovery in those divorce proceedings and all of his financial
12:08
Speaker 1: bs is stealing twelve million dollars would be found out
12:12
Speaker 1: and too. Paul, his son, drove drunk as a skunk
12:17
Speaker 1: on a boat belonging to Murdog. Everybody begged him get
12:20
Speaker 1: away from wheel. He wouldn't do it. What happened. He
12:23
Speaker 1: crashed into cement pylons and Mallory Beach, nineteen years old,
12:27
Speaker 1: flew off the boat and died. Her bloated body found
12:29
Speaker 1: three days later floating face down. That lawsuit was coming
12:33
Speaker 1: to a head. He Murdog Paul in a liquor store
12:36
Speaker 1: had all been sued, and it was set down in
12:40
Speaker 1: the next days that Paul would have to go to
12:42
Speaker 1: court on a legal proceeding regarding that lawsuit and pursue it.
12:46
Speaker 1: To that discovery, all of Murdog's shenanigans were coming to light,
12:52
Speaker 1: and that hadn't happened until then. Until that happened, he
12:57
Speaker 1: probably could have got away with it. But no, not anymore.
13:00
Speaker 1: It all came to a head. Evidence came out at
13:03
Speaker 1: trial that he lured Maggie to the location. She didn't
13:07
Speaker 1: want to go to Mozelle. She told her friend I
13:09
Speaker 1: don't know why he wants me to come out there,
13:11
Speaker 1: but I'm going. Just before she was murdered. And regarding
13:17
Speaker 1: the financial crimes, I've read the Supreme Court opinion, the
13:21
Speaker 1: South Carolina Supreme Court opinion to Jennifer Woods. Isn't it
13:25
Speaker 1: true that the South Carolina Supreme Court did not pass
13:30
Speaker 1: on the financial evidence as being reversible because they didn't
13:35
Speaker 1: have to. They reversed on other grounds, those grounds being
13:40
Speaker 1: Becky Woods's behavior.
13:41
Speaker 2: The clerk, Yeah, so they said that due to the reversal,
13:45
Speaker 2: I'm Becky Hill's conduct, they did not really have to
13:49
Speaker 2: address the evidentiary issues. But they did offer the trial
13:53
Speaker 2: court guidance for the second trial in terms of the
13:58
Speaker 2: financial evidence, and well, they did say it was admissible
14:02
Speaker 2: as a motive. They noted that they actually did the
14:07
Speaker 2: math on this twelve approximately twelve point five hours of
14:11
Speaker 2: testimony was excessive and it should be limited in the
14:16
Speaker 2: next trial to just what is needed to prove motive.
14:20
Speaker 8: He was very gracious, thankful, and he said, Jim, I'm
14:25
Speaker 8: seeing I'm reading it, and it's still hard to believe,
14:27
Speaker 8: but he's glad to get that moniker off of him.
14:31
Speaker 8: As a convicted murderer of his wife and son, no
14:33
Speaker 8: doubt about that. That jury was tampered with. That jury
14:37
Speaker 8: was told don't believe Alec before he got on the stand,
14:40
Speaker 8: in so many words, and so the jurors came out saying,
14:43
Speaker 8: we didn't believe him, but they were coached to not
14:46
Speaker 8: believe him.
14:47
Speaker 1: We do have.
14:48
Speaker 8: Information that's been provided to us, potential third parties and
14:53
Speaker 8: potential motives, and we just we can't disclose it here
14:56
Speaker 8: right now and don't intend to. If you take away
14:59
Speaker 8: all those financial crime prejudicial you know, victims testifying. The
15:03
Speaker 8: only thing they have is this heat wied about.
15:07
Speaker 1: Where he was. He's a Snapchat video right. Other than that,
15:11
Speaker 1: the motive is paper thin. Did you hear that his
15:14
Speaker 1: own defense attorney. The only thing they have he lived,
15:17
Speaker 1: where he was, the snapchat video placing him at the scene.
15:22
Speaker 1: Doctor Michelle Dupree joining us renowned forensic pathologists. Oh that's
15:26
Speaker 1: from our friends at the Today Show, by the way,
15:28
Speaker 1: And those were Murdog's lawyers, one being the very successful
15:33
Speaker 1: Heartpoolian doctor Michelle Duprix, forensic pathologist, former medical examiner, former
15:39
Speaker 1: detective Lesnion County Sheriff's Department and author of money, mischief
15:44
Speaker 1: and murder, the Murdog Dynasty the rest of the story,
15:48
Speaker 1: but for my purposes. She's also the author of the
15:51
Speaker 1: Homicide Investigation Field Guide, Doctor Dupree, thank you for being
15:57
Speaker 1: with us. Could we just do a little reality check.
16:00
Speaker 1: John Mobley is so blithely describing what happened and the
16:05
Speaker 1: circumstantial evidence. Paul's head was blown off, his skull was
16:11
Speaker 1: in a different area, his brain matter was at the
16:13
Speaker 1: top of a door.
16:17
Speaker 9: That's right, Nancy, This was a horrific crime. And you know,
16:20
Speaker 9: forget about the two weapon controversy, that was forensic countermeasures.
16:26
Speaker 9: The injuries that these two people suffered. Paul, You're right,
16:30
Speaker 9: Paul was shot twice. He was shot under the armpit,
16:33
Speaker 9: and he was shot at about they estimated about three
16:36
Speaker 9: feet away. But then he was shot at almost point
16:39
Speaker 9: blank range with a shotgun, a twelve gay shotgun that
16:43
Speaker 9: does massive injury, explosive injury to a person's head. And yes,
16:49
Speaker 9: his skull, parts of his skull and his brain matter
16:52
Speaker 9: were on the dirt. His brain matter was on the
16:55
Speaker 9: door jam, the upper part of the door jam of
16:58
Speaker 9: that kennel. This was stating. It was absolutely horrific and Maggie.
17:03
Speaker 9: Maggie was shot five times. She was shot three times
17:07
Speaker 9: in the body, who was shot twice in the head.
17:10
Speaker 9: She was shot on the way to trying to help
17:13
Speaker 9: her son to get away. Her first shots. They were
17:17
Speaker 9: facing the killer. She saw who pulled that trigger.
17:20
Speaker 1: And saw him straight out to renowned psychoanalyst, host of
17:28
Speaker 1: On the Couch with Doctor Bethany podcast, author of deal Breaker.
17:32
Speaker 1: You can see her now on Bravo and Peacock, and
17:36
Speaker 1: you can find her at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com.
17:39
Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall, you have long wanted to wait in
17:43
Speaker 1: on this debacle. And I'm not saying the Supreme Court
17:46
Speaker 1: is South Carolina Supreme Court was wrong. I actually agree
17:51
Speaker 1: with Mobley that you know, the Supreme Court is an
17:54
Speaker 1: appellate court. They don't question witnesses, they don't take evidence.
17:58
Speaker 1: They have to rely on the manscript they've been giving.
18:01
Speaker 1: I don't know that Becky woods offhand comments caused a
18:05
Speaker 1: guilty verdict. I think the evidence caused a guilty verdict.
18:07
Speaker 1: But the fact is she said them to the jury
18:11
Speaker 1: and that was wrong, and the juror said what happened.
18:15
Speaker 1: I don't think they had any choice but to reverse
18:18
Speaker 1: this case given what they had. But the way we're
18:22
Speaker 1: picking it apart so analytically, that was devastation in that
18:29
Speaker 1: dog kennel where two people bled out dead. What mind
18:34
Speaker 1: did it take to shoot your wife in the back
18:37
Speaker 1: as she life faced down on the ground, to shoot
18:40
Speaker 1: your own son, doctor Bethany.
18:43
Speaker 10: Somebody who was completely psychopathic, has no regard for life.
18:48
Speaker 10: But Nancy also a very desperate man. He had been
18:51
Speaker 10: on a crime spree for twenty plus years and hiding
18:56
Speaker 10: behind the power of the Murdoch dynasty. And not only
19:01
Speaker 10: was he about to be served discovery demands by his wife,
19:04
Speaker 10: but Nancy his own law firm had confronted him the
19:08
Speaker 10: mourning of the deaths and they had a full spreadsheet,
19:12
Speaker 10: so he was going to be exposed there too. But
19:14
Speaker 10: you know what, really, this is really what confounds me
19:18
Speaker 10: is how similar the offending pattern is between Alex Murdoch
19:25
Speaker 10: and Becky Hill. He's a psychopath and she's the bumbling
19:27
Speaker 10: church lady, but both of them motivated by money, both
19:31
Speaker 10: sworn officers of the court, jury tampering and witness tampering.
19:36
Speaker 10: Remember Alex Murdock after the Mallory Beach boat crash. He
19:40
Speaker 10: followed those kids to the hospital and told them not
19:44
Speaker 10: to talk to anybody. So he witnessed tamper just like
19:47
Speaker 10: Becky Hill tampered with the jury colossally bad judgment, thinking
19:53
Speaker 10: that they could get away with it, no sense of consequences,
19:58
Speaker 10: and actually kind of seeing everybody. I mean, we know,
20:01
Speaker 10: to Alex Murdoch, everybody was a mark, even his own
20:04
Speaker 10: housekeeper who fell down the steps. And then at her funeral,
20:08
Speaker 10: he approaches her son says, hey, bring a wrongful death
20:12
Speaker 10: lawsuit against me, and then he keeps the four point
20:15
Speaker 10: two million dollar settlement and never gives it to her sons.
20:21
Speaker 10: And you know, Becky, I think thought that she would
20:24
Speaker 10: get a big payday from this book. So I just
20:26
Speaker 10: want our viewers to know offending patterns are alike, whether
20:31
Speaker 10: you're a psychopath or you're the bumbling church lady. When
20:35
Speaker 10: people get in trouble, they get in trouble in very
20:38
Speaker 10: similar ways.
20:40
Speaker 1: I just don't understand the psychopathy that could allow someone
20:48
Speaker 1: to bring themselves to the point where they shoot their
20:52
Speaker 1: wife point blank range. Isn't that right, doctor Dupree? That
20:56
Speaker 1: Maggie was shot when she was already faced down on
20:59
Speaker 1: the ground, shot in the back.
21:01
Speaker 9: She was She was absolutely and again trying to get
21:05
Speaker 9: to your son when he's in danger like this. It's unthinkable.
21:08
Speaker 9: It's absolutely unthinkable.
21:11
Speaker 1: And how is it, doctor Dupree, that Paul's brain matter
21:16
Speaker 1: was found on the top of a door.
21:20
Speaker 9: The theory of that is he was shot first and
21:23
Speaker 9: on the side, basically under his arm, and so he turned,
21:27
Speaker 9: he sort of you know, went over forward, and when
21:30
Speaker 9: he did that, that put him much closer to the
21:32
Speaker 9: barrel of the gun, and then it was an upward
21:34
Speaker 9: shot to his head which ended up having his brain
21:38
Speaker 9: matter on the upper part of the doorfront and part
21:41
Speaker 9: of his brain left on the ground.
21:43
Speaker 1: Joining us now, special guest Amy Williams, a gerrar on
21:49
Speaker 1: the Alex Murdock double murder trial. Amy is also author
21:55
Speaker 1: of The Long Road to Justice, Unraveling Alex Murder Tangled Web.
22:04
Speaker 1: Miss Williams, thank you so much for being with us.
22:07
Speaker 1: Congratulations on your incredible book. I know that took a
22:11
Speaker 1: lot of effort, Miss Williams. What went through your mind
22:14
Speaker 1: when you heard the case is reversed.
22:18
Speaker 6: I was shocked. I couldn't believe it. Just wow, wow,
22:23
Speaker 6: That's all I could say.
22:24
Speaker 1: Why were you shocked. Do you believe that Becky Hill,
22:28
Speaker 1: who I met several times, very bubbly, outgoing, seemed very efficient.
22:35
Speaker 1: That was my knowledge of her. Did you hear the
22:39
Speaker 1: comments and if so, do you think they resulted in
22:43
Speaker 1: a guilty verdict.
22:46
Speaker 6: I don't think. For me it didn't result in a
22:49
Speaker 6: guilty verdict, and the other ten stated that it didn't
22:53
Speaker 6: for them, And most of those comments I did not hear.
22:57
Speaker 6: I don't know what they were talking about, where it
23:00
Speaker 6: came from. So we took an oath, you know, by
23:05
Speaker 6: witness testimony and evidence to convict him. That's the only
23:10
Speaker 6: way we could do it. And that's what I did.
23:14
Speaker 6: And it was a lot to go through. So who's
23:16
Speaker 6: had time to paying attention to what anybody else was saying.
23:19
Speaker 6: I never felt like she was pushing an agenda with me,
23:22
Speaker 6: never felt uncomfortable about it at all.
23:24
Speaker 1: Now I've got to tell you my experience with her.
23:27
Speaker 1: Miss Williams Guys joining us a jerror on the Alex
23:30
Speaker 1: Murdog double murder trial. There was a double murder conviction
23:34
Speaker 1: and has just been reversed by the South Carolina Supreme Court.
23:38
Speaker 1: I agree with John Mobley, veteran trial lawyer. The court
23:41
Speaker 1: did what it had to do. That doesn't mean I
23:43
Speaker 1: have to agree with it or like it. Amy has
23:45
Speaker 1: written an incredible book, The Long Road to Justice, Unraveling
23:49
Speaker 1: Alex Murdog's Tangled Web. See. I believe, based on sitting
23:54
Speaker 1: in the courtroom, watching the girr rs, you watching the
23:59
Speaker 1: trial unfall, that there was overwhelming evidence of Murdog's guilt.
24:05
Speaker 1: My experience with Becky Hill, she was very nice, bubbly, outgoing,
24:09
Speaker 1: seemed very efficient. Yes, if she said the things she
24:13
Speaker 1: did say that wasn't proper, it was improper. I also
24:19
Speaker 1: think there was overwhelming evidence and that is why he
24:23
Speaker 1: was convicted. What did you consider miss Williams to be
24:26
Speaker 1: the strongest evidence against Murdoch?
24:30
Speaker 6: Ugh, There was so much, but the strongest would be
24:33
Speaker 6: the video, considering that he said that he wasn't at
24:37
Speaker 6: the scene and that was the most important piece that
24:40
Speaker 6: he lied about. And then once he got on the stand,
24:44
Speaker 6: he could not explain even though he admitted that he lied,
24:48
Speaker 6: he couldn't make sense of the timeline. He couldn't make
24:51
Speaker 6: sense of what happened. So why did they kill them
24:53
Speaker 6: and not you? What happened? You were there? You know?
24:57
Speaker 6: So that was the biggest piece for me. Then all
25:00
Speaker 6: the other pieces just fit together perfectly.
25:03
Speaker 1: What did you make of all that? Snot? All that?
25:10
Speaker 11: You know?
25:10
Speaker 1: I mean, I had to look away.
25:12
Speaker 4: That was just.
25:13
Speaker 1: Wrong me too.
25:15
Speaker 6: I had to say that. I always say that he's
25:18
Speaker 6: a horrible actor because he goes over the top. He
25:22
Speaker 6: just pushes it over the top and then he then
25:24
Speaker 6: he'll fall out a character. He's just it's insane. He
25:29
Speaker 6: was just insane the way you can.
25:32
Speaker 1: See your monitor. But I'd like the viewers to see
25:34
Speaker 1: miss Williams. We have him body cam. Oh there's the snot.
25:40
Speaker 1: You know. I never said snot so many times in
25:42
Speaker 1: my life because I think it's really rude as until
25:45
Speaker 1: I got to the Alex Murdoch trial. Then you know,
25:47
Speaker 1: there's just really no other way to put it. That
25:49
Speaker 1: was from my friends at WLTV control room. Could you
25:52
Speaker 1: play for her? I don't know if she can see
25:53
Speaker 1: it or not, the body cam or he's in the
25:55
Speaker 1: back of the car going and all of a sudden
25:58
Speaker 1: he starts checking his phone, just like that. It's just
26:01
Speaker 1: there he goes and then all of a sudden he
26:07
Speaker 1: straightens up and he's on his phone. I don't know
26:09
Speaker 1: if anybody else noticed that, but oh, there you go,
26:12
Speaker 1: he's straightening up here it comes everybody's can soak. There
26:15
Speaker 1: you go. Now that was a jump cup. But that's
26:17
Speaker 1: pretty much what happened, Miss Williams. I gotta ask you,
26:22
Speaker 1: it's not secret anymore. What did the jury say about
26:26
Speaker 1: all that sniveling and lying on the stand.
26:31
Speaker 6: In deliberations? I mean, we just said that it just
26:35
Speaker 6: wasn't it was too much. I mean, it was 'tirely
26:38
Speaker 6: too much. And there's it just wasn't real. It wasn't real.
26:45
Speaker 1: Now a lot of people are claiming that you all
26:48
Speaker 1: reached a guilty verdict because you found out about of
26:52
Speaker 1: all of his financial crimes to the tune of twelve
26:54
Speaker 1: million dollars. I believe it was. And Jennifer Wood jump
26:57
Speaker 1: in because you know the case better than anybody. Jennifer
26:59
Speaker 1: Woods joining us. She's the first one that told us
27:02
Speaker 1: a week ahead of time there was a reversal coming
27:04
Speaker 1: down the pike. So what did you think about that,
27:09
Speaker 1: Miss Williams. People are saying you all found him guilty
27:13
Speaker 1: because of his financial crimes.
27:15
Speaker 6: No, no, that's not true. And we were instructed to
27:19
Speaker 6: only consider it as a motive, and I believe it
27:23
Speaker 6: was part of a motive. But I think there was
27:24
Speaker 6: more in the pot. It was a bigger storm. It
27:27
Speaker 6: included more stuff. But no, it was not based on
27:30
Speaker 6: the financial crimes. All the evidence pointed to him and him,
27:34
Speaker 6: only him only. I mean he taught, he played with Meg,
27:40
Speaker 6: he tortured her, he spun her around, and then even
27:43
Speaker 6: after she was dead, as a pathologist said, when she
27:47
Speaker 6: hit the ground, he stood over her and shot her
27:49
Speaker 6: in the head. That's personal. That's a lot of rage.
27:54
Speaker 6: I mean, can I just.
27:56
Speaker 1: Say John Mobley real quick, place John Mobley and you
28:00
Speaker 1: may want to go in and put him on meat
28:01
Speaker 1: right now? Hey, here you go, here go Mobley. I
28:05
Speaker 1: had this yesterday for Murdoch, but this is for you
28:07
Speaker 1: because she just shot Your theory about financial crimes is
28:12
Speaker 1: the reason they found him guilty, and how wrong that was.
28:14
Speaker 1: She just shot that to helehim back. So if you
28:17
Speaker 1: want these all fed ex him to you, okay, silent tears, Okay,
28:22
Speaker 1: back to you, Miss Williams. What do you make of
28:26
Speaker 1: people that insist murdog is innocent or somebody else did it?
28:33
Speaker 6: Where is the person that did it? Because Dick and
28:35
Speaker 6: Jim said that they were gonna find the real killer.
28:40
Speaker 6: So where is he? Where is he or she or whoever?
28:43
Speaker 6: You know why they can't find him because we already
28:45
Speaker 6: have him in jail. He's already been convicted. All the
28:49
Speaker 6: evidence pointed to him, not anyone else. He was in
28:52
Speaker 6: the circle, as the authorities said, he was the only
28:55
Speaker 6: one in the circle. I mean, this whole video that
28:58
Speaker 6: we're looking at now completely out of character so many times,
29:02
Speaker 6: I mean, it was just insane.
29:05
Speaker 1: Hey did you ever notice his shirt? Miss Williams, who
29:08
Speaker 1: I could talk to you all night long? Hey, Chrismin Done,
29:10
Speaker 1: a veteran homicide detective, director Cole Case Foundation, star of
29:13
Speaker 1: the Interview Room on YouTube. Chris, do you notice in
29:17
Speaker 1: his shirt he's got on? There's no blood on it
29:20
Speaker 1: at all, nothing, That's where was he wearing that when
29:25
Speaker 1: he found his wife and son? Did?
29:28
Speaker 8: Yeah?
29:28
Speaker 11: Exactly, Nancy. I mean, and you called it from day
29:31
Speaker 11: one on this whole thing, And here we are now,
29:34
Speaker 11: you know, taking a step back, and he's going to
29:37
Speaker 11: get act too, you know, and rightfully so. I mean
29:40
Speaker 11: I think the court ruled appropriately. However, the evidence has
29:45
Speaker 11: not changed in any way, shape or formed. Let's not
29:49
Speaker 11: forget the other big piece of this is he lured
29:53
Speaker 11: his wife to that property that day, and within ninety
29:57
Speaker 11: seconds after that she has heard which is alac on
30:02
Speaker 11: that voy on that tape from his son. He blows
30:07
Speaker 11: that boy's head off and then he executes his wife,
30:11
Speaker 11: and all of the digital evidence that was presented proved
30:15
Speaker 11: that beyond a reasonable doubt.
30:20
Speaker 1: Doctor Michelle Duprey, you've studied the case, You've written a book.
30:24
Speaker 1: What do you think about this reversal and what do
30:26
Speaker 1: you think about the murders themselves?
30:29
Speaker 9: Guilty? Absolutely guilty.
30:32
Speaker 1: Jennifer Wood, you called it first. Jennifer joining us from
30:35
Speaker 1: Fitz News. She is the director of research there. She
30:39
Speaker 1: told us a week ago this reversal was coming down.
30:42
Speaker 1: Nobody believed it. Well, it happened way in, Jennifer.
30:47
Speaker 2: Well, this reversal was not unexpected. It is still disappointing,
30:51
Speaker 2: and I don't think anybody is looking forward to a
30:54
Speaker 2: second trial. I do think the second trial is going
30:57
Speaker 2: to look vastly different than the first trial. I think
31:00
Speaker 2: we're going to see less financial evidence admitted. I would
31:05
Speaker 2: be surprised if Elec testifies, so it'll just be another
31:10
Speaker 2: rollercoaster to see what happens.
31:12
Speaker 1: Next Dodger Bethany Marshall, have you ever seen anything like
31:15
Speaker 1: it in your life?
31:18
Speaker 10: I believe Alec Murdoch's crime spree, which spanned decades, was
31:23
Speaker 10: aided and embedded by the fact that he was surrounded
31:27
Speaker 10: by people who looked up to him. He was a lawyer,
31:30
Speaker 10: he had power, he was educated, he came from a
31:33
Speaker 10: long line of judges, and because of that, there was
31:37
Speaker 10: kind of a societal collusion with him which allowed him
31:40
Speaker 10: to keep using opiates, allowed him to keep stealing money
31:45
Speaker 10: from clients, taking money from his own law firm, and
31:48
Speaker 10: I think there were a lot of people around him
31:50
Speaker 10: who kind of knew what was going on, but they
31:52
Speaker 10: also couldn't believe it at the same time. A number
31:55
Speaker 10: of stories, you know, really stick in my mind. When
32:00
Speaker 10: Paul crashed the boat because he was driving three times
32:02
Speaker 10: over the legal limit in terms of alcohol, Alex Murdoch
32:07
Speaker 10: was allowed to go past the crime scene tape to
32:10
Speaker 10: the boat, whereas Mallory Beach's mother was kept behind the
32:15
Speaker 10: crime tape. She couldn't even go to check on her
32:18
Speaker 10: own daughter, which is so sad. Alex Murdoch was then
32:21
Speaker 10: allowed into the hospital to influence the young people to
32:25
Speaker 10: not give testimony. Me questions were never asked. And I
32:31
Speaker 10: think what Amy just said the juror on this show
32:34
Speaker 10: was so powerful when she talked about the executions type
32:39
Speaker 10: shot to Maggie Murdoch's head, that this was up close
32:45
Speaker 10: and personal. It wasn't just motivated by hiding his financial crime.
32:50
Speaker 10: She was about to leave him, and women, as we know,
32:53
Speaker 10: and I've said again and again, are at the greatest
32:56
Speaker 10: risk for homicide when they are about to leave a relationship.
33:01
Speaker 1: He shot Paul first, so.
33:03
Speaker 10: Magie had to see that. And when we think about
33:06
Speaker 10: domestic violence, often the children are abused or killed to
33:10
Speaker 10: get back at the other parents. So we can really
33:12
Speaker 10: think about this as a DV or domestic violence scenario
33:16
Speaker 10: where the child is taken out to punish the other parent.
33:19
Speaker 10: She had to see it and then he shoots her
33:21
Speaker 10: execution style. So this is not just financially motivated, cover up,
33:26
Speaker 10: concealment motivated, but I think this is motivated by ongoing,
33:31
Speaker 10: simmering rage towards somebody who is no longer going to
33:34
Speaker 10: do everything that he asked her to do.
33:38
Speaker 1: Well, I'm about to pull the tiger by the tail.
33:41
Speaker 1: John Mobley final thought.
33:45
Speaker 3: You know, it's always so interesting to hear people talk
33:47
Speaker 3: about this case and talk about how overwhelming the evidence
33:50
Speaker 3: is and what a despicable person Murdi is. And I
33:53
Speaker 3: will say, obviously you have to agree that he was
33:56
Speaker 3: an extremely unpleasant individual that was dishonest, There was a liar,
34:01
Speaker 3: was a thief. I mean, he was still a nickel
34:02
Speaker 3: from his you know, from his own mother, and lie
34:05
Speaker 3: about it. But I mean, the things that are significant
34:08
Speaker 3: is there are there's absolutely no history of violence in
34:12
Speaker 3: his past. There's zero, there's no allegation, there's no investigation
34:16
Speaker 3: that he ever engaged in any violent conduct toward anybody
34:20
Speaker 3: under any circumstance. All the prior evidence is he's a
34:24
Speaker 3: he's a thief, and he's a very powerful person and
34:26
Speaker 3: a very you know, corrupt individual, which we all agree.
34:29
Speaker 3: And it appears that, you know, while everyone will talk
34:32
Speaker 3: about overwhelming evidence of guilts and how he had to
34:34
Speaker 3: commit these murders, you know, ninety nine percent of what
34:37
Speaker 3: they talk about is his character and what a you know,
34:41
Speaker 3: dishonest person he is. Even the jury that that is
34:44
Speaker 3: so adamant that he committed the crimes talks about his
34:47
Speaker 3: demeanor on the stand, and you know how she didn't
34:50
Speaker 3: like his personality and his demeter and he was just
34:52
Speaker 3: honest and untrustworthy. That's not evidence of murder. I mean,
34:56
Speaker 3: there are a lot of questions in this case. I mean,
34:58
Speaker 3: you know, where were the murder weapons that they never found?
35:02
Speaker 3: Where are the bloody clothes? I mean, you know what's
35:06
Speaker 3: so interesting they talk about is how you know he
35:08
Speaker 3: was there within ninety seconds all this stuff happened. And
35:11
Speaker 3: I'm thinking, okay, well, in ninety seconds, he had two
35:14
Speaker 3: long weapons and killed his son, killed his wife, and
35:18
Speaker 3: gotri of the bloody clothes, got with of the bloody
35:21
Speaker 3: you know, got with of the weapons such that you know,
35:24
Speaker 3: an entire law enforcement department or two law enforcement departments,
35:27
Speaker 3: after canvas in the area, could not find any of it.
35:30
Speaker 3: That just doesn't make any sense to anybody.
35:32
Speaker 1: It just does not.
35:33
Speaker 3: And I challenged someone to say that he could hide
35:36
Speaker 3: all that stuff in ninety seconds and clean himself up
35:39
Speaker 3: and have no blood on him, and get rid of
35:41
Speaker 3: all the phones, and get rid of all the firearms,
35:43
Speaker 3: and leave no trace of his presence at that crime scene,
35:46
Speaker 3: and no blood or any other physical evidence on his person.
35:49
Speaker 3: I challenge anyone to say that he can do that
35:51
Speaker 3: in ninety seconds and completely evade the forensic investigation of
35:56
Speaker 3: two separate law enforcement agencies. I mean, they're just it
35:59
Speaker 3: does not make sense.
36:01
Speaker 6: Come back with that. I understand what you're saying, But
36:03
Speaker 6: it was more than ninety seconds, because he was the
36:06
Speaker 6: one that actually that uh you know, pulled out the timeline.
36:10
Speaker 6: He was the one that made the timeline. He called
36:11
Speaker 6: nine one one when he wanted to. So he called
36:14
Speaker 6: nine one one after he got back from his parents' house,
36:19
Speaker 6: which he took a shower. He could have watched in
36:23
Speaker 6: the little shed that they had to clean theirs or
36:28
Speaker 6: whatever you do with that kind of stuff. There was
36:30
Speaker 6: something there where he could have showered. He could have
36:32
Speaker 6: showered in the house. He set the timeline, He did
36:35
Speaker 6: everything the way he wanted and he called nine one
36:37
Speaker 6: one when he wanted to, so he had plenty of time.
36:41
Speaker 6: And then the police didn't even search the area completely
36:43
Speaker 6: that night. There were people all in the house before
36:46
Speaker 6: then after that, and then they when they finally do
36:49
Speaker 6: search the house, they can't find the guns. But they
36:52
Speaker 6: did prove that the guns the bullets that they found
36:57
Speaker 6: outside of the house had the same scriptions on it,
37:01
Speaker 6: just like the bullets that they found in Maggie. Okay,
37:04
Speaker 6: so that tells you right there, it's like a fingerprint,
37:07
Speaker 6: and it was the family weapons were used. I mean, shoot,
37:10
Speaker 6: you have people who've been committed on murders for murders
37:13
Speaker 6: who you don't even have a body for. So we
37:17
Speaker 6: had enough evidence to show that he did it, plain
37:21
Speaker 6: and simple. He set the timeline, He did everything you wanted.
37:24
Speaker 3: Well, I just think as far as the timeline goes.
37:26
Speaker 3: And that's another issue I have is when you're talking
37:28
Speaker 3: about the timeline and you're saying he set the timeline.
37:31
Speaker 3: I mean that's another issue in the case. I mean,
37:33
Speaker 3: there really is no clear timeline for the murders. You know,
37:36
Speaker 3: any any attempt to put together a specific timeline is
37:40
Speaker 3: speculation at best. And that's what happens when you have
37:44
Speaker 3: and I will tell you, you know, I've prosecuted, I've
37:47
Speaker 3: defended these cases. And let me tell you what happens
37:49
Speaker 3: time and time again. You know, when there's a murder,
37:53
Speaker 3: you know, and I can tell you, I can guarantee
37:55
Speaker 3: you that when these bodies found, Alex Murdall was the
37:59
Speaker 3: immediate suspect, and if you're going to say anything otherwise,
38:02
Speaker 3: and I think that's just not realistic. I mean that spouse,
38:05
Speaker 3: the people that have the connection or the relationship with
38:07
Speaker 3: the victims are always the first and immediate suspects. Whether
38:11
Speaker 3: law enforcement wants to admit that or not, those are
38:14
Speaker 3: the first people they look at. And let me tell
38:16
Speaker 3: you about law enforcing. Once they kind of fixate on
38:19
Speaker 3: the suspect, and they really don't look for anybody else, okay,
38:24
Speaker 3: And when they don't have clear evidence of anybody else,
38:27
Speaker 3: and the evidence against that person is circumstantial, they're going
38:31
Speaker 3: to start going down that road and they're not going
38:33
Speaker 3: to turn around. I can guarantee you that, And that's
38:35
Speaker 3: what happened in this case.
38:37
Speaker 7: Chris mcdonna thoughts, so statistically, ninety two percent of all
38:43
Speaker 7: homicides across this country are committed by people that know
38:50
Speaker 7: the victim.
38:52
Speaker 11: That means Alex mrnack has an eight percent chance of
38:55
Speaker 11: proving approximately that he's.
38:57
Speaker 1: Not the guy.
39:00
Speaker 11: This case is about a system that caught a court
39:03
Speaker 11: employee allegedly tampering with a jury. The Supreme Court rightfully
39:09
Speaker 11: turned it back and said, let's try this again. It
39:13
Speaker 11: doesn't erase what Murdoch did to his wife and son.
39:17
Speaker 11: Maggie and Paul deserve a fair trial and a verdict
39:21
Speaker 11: that actually sticks. This time. This is about jury tampering.
39:25
Speaker 11: Not the strength of the case. The timeline, the lies,
39:29
Speaker 11: the shotgun, the rifle, the evidence, the financial motive, and
39:33
Speaker 11: Murdoch's own voice on the kennel video stick rock solid
39:41
Speaker 11: to a presumption of guilt. The prosecution does not have
39:46
Speaker 11: to prove a motive. And I love the fact that
39:50
Speaker 11: if I'm ever in trouble in South Carolina, I'm going
39:53
Speaker 11: to call John because he has the ability, no doubt, okay,
39:59
Speaker 11: to argue assurately for his clients. And I think in
40:03
Speaker 11: this one though, he'll be unfortunately found incorrect on this one.
40:09
Speaker 1: Final word to you, Miss Williams.
40:12
Speaker 6: Definitely guilty, and I will vote it a million times over.
40:15
Speaker 6: In my book, my co author and I detail exactly
40:19
Speaker 6: how we went through the evidence, how we came to
40:21
Speaker 6: the verdict that we did, and how the evidence was
40:23
Speaker 6: just overwhelming against him, and we will vote this over
40:27
Speaker 6: and over and over again. I can vote a million
40:30
Speaker 6: times he is guilty, no doubt about it. I don't
40:34
Speaker 6: have to agree with what the court. Did I understand
40:36
Speaker 6: you know, according to the law, it had to do
40:38
Speaker 6: what they did, but he is guilty.
40:40
Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything about this case,
40:43
Speaker 1: the state is starting square one. If you have information,
40:47
Speaker 1: please call South Carolina Law Enforcement eight zero three eight
40:52
Speaker 1: nine six two six zero five eight o three eight
40:55
Speaker 1: nine six two six zero five. We remember American hero
41:00
Speaker 1: Sheriff Richard Coyle, Crittenden County Sheriff's Kentucky, shot in the
41:05
Speaker 1: line of duty after thirty years, leaving behind a wife
41:09
Speaker 1: now widow, Jamie. American hero Sheriff Richard Coyle. Thank you
41:16
Speaker 1: to our guests, but especially to you for being with
41:18
Speaker 1: us as we wait for justice to unfold. From Maggie
41:22
Speaker 1: and Paul. Nancy Gray signing off for tonight, but I'll
41:25
Speaker 1: see you tomorrow night, and until then, good night friend,