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The Mandalorian Chapter 21: The Pirate · Aggressive Negotiations: A Star Wars Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hello there, Welcome to the ned Palty.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Hi.
• 0:06
  Speaker 3: This is nicko Ostasiu, lead editor and writer on mal
• 0:09
  Speaker 3: shadow Lord, and you're listening to Aggressive Negotiations. Welcome to
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: aggressive negotiations. The ship in orbit around the Outer Rim
• 0:26
  Speaker 3: planet of Navarro with lots of treats underneath the Captain
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: Christmas Tree. For this week's episode, I am Jedi Master
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: John Mills, and I am joined by my dear friend
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: and trusted Jedi Master, Matthew Rushing. Matt, how are you
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: doing and are you ready to see the next chapter
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: in the fight for Navarro's independence?
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Well, John, I would say, I'm in a celebratory mood
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: today and I'm really glad to be back with you,
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: and you know, of course, couldn't be more excited that,
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: you know, Captain Christmas Tree is back, or you know,
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Captain Easter Basket or whatever you want to call them.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: And so, but before we dive into the episode, John,
• 1:11
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• 1:17
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• 1:28
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• 1:32
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• 1:34
  Speaker 1: fiftieth anniversary of Star Wars next year, maybe you know
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• 2:03
  Speaker 1: But John, I wanted to ask you about this because
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: we talked about this the last time we bet went
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: back to Navarro in this season, and if it's a crutch,
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: how do you feel about that now that we've actually
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: we spend a lot of time on Navarro before we
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: even get to anything with the Mando.
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: I I can honestly tell you that this is an
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: episode and I know that next week. I mean it's
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: a rewatch, so we already know. I know that next
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: week is going to reinforce this. I think this episode
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: was the most glaring thing to me. I mean, it
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: was a parent during the Doctor Pershing episode, it was
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: a parent during some of the Navarro stuff. But this
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: episode very much feels like, oh, we couldn't do Rangers
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: of the New Republic. We got to work this pirate
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: thing in somewhere. We have to give something. You know,
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: this is a State of the New Republic sort of thing.
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: And I gotta be honest with you that I thought
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: it was cool, but I also thought it was misplaced.
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: And I I know how this might sound, but I
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: don't care about Navarro except how it relates to Mando.
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: And this episode eventually gets to that point, but not
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: clearly enough, not quickly enough. And so that you know,
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: that's where I am with it is you know it's
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: coming straight in. I'll just tear the band aid off
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: and it's like it gets to the point where Mando's
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: the one that can help him and he gets the
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: covert to help. But and this is where I'll bounce
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: it back to you. It just feels so jumbled. It
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: feels like the story was there, but it's just told.
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: It almost feels like it's out of sequence. It feels
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: like I should encounter certain things before I encounter other things,
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: and not even a re edit can really save it.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: Only a rewrite could have, you know.
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: Reassembled this episode to be what it needed to be.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: I like what you're saying, because I definitely felt that
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: throughout the episode, especially at the beginning of the episode,
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: that it really truly felt almost like a part of
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: a script that they had from Ranger of the New
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: Republic that they needed to help fill in some of
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: the gaps that they had story wise, that they were
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: going to utilize to build the end of this season right,
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: and that they had hoped that those shows I'm guessing
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: would almost have been running concurrently so that you could
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: have played back and forth between them. And I absolutely
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: seed your point, because I the episode does feel disjointed
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: in the sense that we again spend so much time
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: on one story before we actually get back to the
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: Mandalorian and Grogu and connecting it with the Mandalorians. Because
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: I'll be honest, were watching the episode, I actually felt
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: like that the way in which it finally uses the
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: Mandalorians and it kind of kicks off that whole story
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: for them in the sense of that you know, as
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: we kind of mentioned the other episode, this is not
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: this show is called the Mandalorian, but this season really
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: is about the Mandalorians in themselves.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: And it's about bridging two worlds, right, And we get that.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: And so I think that's the frustrating part about this
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: because I actually really enjoyed the episode more on the
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: rewatch here because of the ways in which it was
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: doing those things which I was really excited about with
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: the Mandalorian lore, but the process of getting there, yes,
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: you're right, I mean it does feel just kind of discombobulated.
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: Well, and I think the reason it feels discombobulated is
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: because of the earlier storytelling missteps in the season. I
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: feel like this episode, all of these things could have
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: been edited into something earlier in the season, and if
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: we had.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: Not spent the time with.
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: The you know, the the doctor Pershing stuff, this happens
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: much closer to where it's supposed to.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: This is a very fast resolution for this pirate storyline.
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: But a fast resolution can work if it's told quickly.
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: I know that might not make sense to people, but
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: I have part one and then I take a breather,
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: and then I have Part two. If I have Part
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: one and Part two right next to each other. Even
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: though it's a quickly resolved story angle or story point,
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: it's at least told as quickly as its resolution justifies
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: sort of thing. This feels more like it's stretching. They
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: knew where this was going, they knew it was going
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: to end. If you're not going to have you know
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: that the Pirates in episodes one, two, and three, then
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: just have them in one and two. Otherwise I'm waiting
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: too long. And then guess what, if you really want
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: the doctor Pershing thing, you can actually flip that around
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: and make that in this episode so that it ends
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: very close to the discovery of Mauf Gideon's disappearance, which
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: is related to all the stuff they're talking about in
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: episode two, and it's like it's almost as if, in
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: all honesty, the reason this works better on rewatch because
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: it does work better on rewatch. The reason it works
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: better on rewatch is because you can binge a little bit,
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: even if it's not, you know, all at once. This
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: season is constructed for a binge but was released week
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: to week. Makes sense. I think that's what cripples it
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: in the sense.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: Well, and I think it's one of those things where
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: if you had just actually been if you had set
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: the season up that the way that storytelling was going
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: to go is you were going to have these concurrent
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: running stories that we're going to find their way to
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: a point together at some point in the season, right,
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: like kind of a normal prestige television show. My do
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: I think that would have been more helpful, because that's
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: the other way I think that you can alleviate this
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: sense of discontinuity and discombobulation of like the construction of
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: the episodes, where it just feels disjointed and like I'm
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: not in the right space of the story that I
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: need to be. You know, it would be like writing
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: a book the way that Tolkien did, but it's not
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: the type of story that works that way, right.
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, you know, actually another show where I think
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: you can see the same sort of story editing issues.
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: And please keep in mind, I don't mean this to
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: be charged, because I did not dislike the final season
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: as much as other people did, but a lot of
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: these story editing issues are apparent in the final season
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: of Stranger Things as well, where there's a lot of
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: stuff happening, but sometimes you're sitting there struggling with how
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: does this relate to the other thing? Yeah, and then
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: like at the end you can sort of be like, yeah, okay,
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: well that happened. Things are told too far apart from
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: each other in the context of the episodic structure, and
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: that's what creates all of the issues, and that's what's
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: most I would say that so far, this is the
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: most frustrating episode of the season as a result, because
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: there's stuff here I like, There's stuff I was vested in.
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: There's stuff that I wanted to see, and they took
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: too long to get to it. Like it just it
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: really feels like there are so many people here that
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: get broken up by the fact that they want to
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: wedge in this Rangers of the New Republic, stuff that
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: they couldn't get to in the series that got canceled.
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: And the thing is I want to ask you actually
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: with this is we have this big battle. Did you
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: feel a sense of spectacle with the battle? Did you
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: feel that the effects carried us through the battle on
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: this time at the very least did that work? Was
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: there a good enough payoff with that?
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: I think certain points did and then there are other
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: points that didn't, So it's a little bit uneven. You know.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: I think when the ship finally crashes, you know, it
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: feels a little video gamish in the sense, you know,
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: it seems to crash behind the town.
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: But you know, yeah, I don't know, it's a little
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: too clean.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, But I mean I felt like the air battle
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: itself was pretty cool. Uh, and then the Mandalorians dropping
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: out of the ship and all that. I mean again,
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: kind of being able to see in live action some
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: of the stuff we've seen in the Clone Wars with
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: that type of ship and Mando's was great. I really
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: liked that, you know, I loved, you know, kind of
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: seeing that the end one as a Starfighter is is
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: such a nimble ship in the way of course that
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: you know, it's been souped up, but everything I thought,
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: oh that was really fun. So those are the things
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: that I really didn't quite have an issue with. And
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: uh and it wasn't as you know, clean as I
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: would have liked it. And of course it doesn't look
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: like it would have if if this had been a film,
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: but it was good enough for me. Uh that That's
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: how I felt about it. It was good enough.
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: Question, do you do you think the episode would have
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: worked better if the pirates got away they took a
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: butt whoopon but got away instead of crashing and all dying.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: I mean possibly, I think I would have been a
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: I think I would have wanted to have felt that
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: the pirates would never come back, basically because you know,
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: now that the Mandalorians are here, they're you know, this
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: planet is not unprotected.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: I think that would have been fine if that had happened,
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: because you know, in some ways you need to feel
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: that this planet is secure, because this was the Mandalorians
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: choosing to make this a new home for themselves in
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: the sense that this will be a major base of
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: operations now for them as they do plan to you know,
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: by the end of the episode, the goal is to
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: retake Mandalor and to bring the factions together. Navarro is
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: actually the sense I get in this episode is that
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: this will be a major Mandalorian hub, you know, for
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: the rest of you know, who knows when only the
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: force knows, And so I think that's the thing that
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: it's like I would have needed by the end to
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: know that these pirates would not be coming back, and
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: I think they took the easiest way, which is to
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: you know, have them just completely all destroyed and that
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: this is just one of the pirate gangs out there.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: I think there is a part of my brain that thinks, though, well,
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: this is only one pirate gang, so there could be
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: more sure And you know, I don't know, did you
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: feel that or do you think the same thing, or.
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: For some reason, them getting away makes it feel less hurried, less,
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: lack of a better word, less cheap, because it feels
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: like they're just throwaway villains. Now, keep in mind, Tarkan dies.
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: Tarkan's introduced and dies in one movie originally. Grievous introduced
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: and dies in one movie originally, So Lucas was never
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: enamored of the idea of like having to have the
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: same villain carry through.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, do you know barely you know, he's barely.
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: Who has what like three minutes of screen time? Settle down, nerds.
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: I love Dooku, but like it's one of those things where,
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: for some reason, there's a part of my brain that's like,
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: if they had made it away and they they limp away,
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: it feels like or even kill you know, Captain Christmas
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: Tree and his group goes off and is.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: Like, no, I'm running for the hills. Like, for some.
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: Reason, that just works better for me. I just think
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: it makes more sense. I don't I don't know that
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: I can really put it into words, but it feels
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: like having that remaining threat then reinforces the idea of, well,
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: the Mandalorians have even more reason to stay on this
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: planet because they don't like unfinished business, and they're not
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: chasing after them because they want to save themselves for
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: the attack on Mandalor. But you know, let's be honest
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: that you know, Okay, fine, we'll stay here in that way,
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: if they show up again, we can finish them off
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: sort of thing. It's just you know, but it's six
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: and one half dozen. The other my key question though,
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: is I was excited by the idea that Bocaton had
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: had a change of heart, had had a conversion story,
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: and it accepted the way, and then all of a sudden,
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: now at the end of this episode, it's like, uh,
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: never mind, you can take your helmet off, and it's like, oh, oh, okay.
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: Do you feel that that's too quick? Do you feel
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: that they should have waited an extra episode? For her
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: to take her helmet off.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: I think that in that and this is the thing
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: that makes it really fascinating, and it's one of the
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: reasons I think I would have enjoyed, you know, obviously
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: having a fourth season of The Mandalorian to kind of
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: see how this plays out. But the sense I was
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: getting from this episode about the armor or doing what
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: she's doing here is to say, hey, we've got to
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: put the petty differences aside, oh, you know, and come
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: back together as Mandalorians. And the best way to do
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: that is for me not to force you to be
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: like me.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: No, absolutely.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: I think the question that you're asking though about whether
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: or not it needed to happen in this episode or
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: if it maybe should have waited.
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: You know, you're you're.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: Kind of constrained in the sense that this is already
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: episode five of the season, and if you're trying to
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: get to where you're going to get by the end
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: of this season, then you don't have a lot of
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: time for that. And I thought, to me, it didn't
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: feel too rushed because of the conversation that they end
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: up having, and uh, the key to that being is
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: that the armorer says, you saw a methosaur, and so
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: that being the lynchpin for this decision of the armorer
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: to make her turn. And I think that's actually what's
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: more interesting here is that it's not Bo that really
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: needs to have the turn, it's the armorer. And so
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: that to me is where I didn't feel like this
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: felt too quick, because it actually felt like they had
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: developed enough of the story for this moment to happen
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: when it does, and I don't feel cheated, per se.
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: Fair fair, I'm willing to listen to it. Like on
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: the rewatch. For some reason, I had less of a
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: problem with it. I remember in the moment I was like, wait,
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: so like, I totally got the reasoning. I actually loved
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: the reasoning. I thought it was great, It's well written.
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: But I was like, oh, well, we just made a
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: big thing. What you can't hide's face forever? John, Well,
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: that would be a crime. I would actually be very
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: upset if they did. But it's one of those things
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: where it's like, you know, its just it, But the
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: thing is, I think that's that's actually sort of the
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: thing too. This show is a victim to the idea
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: that we're going to tell it in eight eight's how
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: many we're going to tell it in eight means it's done.
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: And if you look at it, it's the reason why
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: mal shadow Lord, which is amazing. Everybody presumed it was
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: gonna be eight episodes when it came out, and they
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: they I don't know if you remember, but like in
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: the beginning, there was like almost this thing where like
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: they were continually saying like, no, no, no, it's ten episodes, guys.
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: Like early on there was messaging going out there. It
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: was like, it's not it's ten at its core. Should
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: the Mandalorian, given everything that it had to readjust itself
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: to have taken season three and said screw it.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: We're doing ten or eleven episodes.
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: Do you think that solves the whole problem?
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because then you could have had those episodes and
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: you know, the Book of Boba Fett be a part
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: of this, and you didn't feel like you had to
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: add that there, you know very well, although you know
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: all of this would have taken a lot of rewriting.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: I think what this does kind of go to show
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: is that you can truly feel like that there is
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: a story place that they're still trying to get us
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: without a whole extra show, and you know, they could
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: say whatever they want, I think to us and we'd
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: still be like, Yeah, you guys had a plan that
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: involved having, you know, the Book of Buffit Mando Nights
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: are the Ranger of the New Republic. On Ahsoka show,
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: you had all this kind of like building, and when
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: you take a whole eight episodes away, it creates a
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: conundrum for you. And because it is very clear, you know,
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: this episode does really want to deal with the sluggishness
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: and the almost irresponsibility of the New Republic in the
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: way it's being run, and so I kind of wanted
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: to ask you about that, and because we really kind
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: of get a picture of a completely incompetent New Republic
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: government right now.
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: But this is where we enter the tricky, tricky question.
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: The Mandalorian became a cultural phenom because of Baby Yoda
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: and that you didn't need to know jack about the
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: deep lore of Star Wars, didn't need to know a
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: thing about it. Even in episode two when Ahsoka shows up,
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: it's just enough of Ahsoka for Cash like my wife
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: to get what's going on. Oh, this is a Jedi.
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: Oh she was Anakin's Hey, wait, Anakin had a student. Yeah, Yeah,
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: there's a whole thing clone Wars. If you want to
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: watch it, I can tell you. Or the short version is, yeah,
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: she left the order and now she's back. But you know,
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: and my wife was able to plug in and go
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: with it. Ahsoka is a Jedi that she encounters who's
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: Grand Admiral Thron. Oh that's intriguing, you know, maybe I'll
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: come back to that later.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: This is so steeped in built in world building.
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: The thing I struggle with is I look at it
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: through that lens of they're getting into that nitty gritty
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: of it where it's like they've suddenly taken the Mandalorian show,
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: which is very much, very excessing to the casual fan,
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: and turn it into something where you really have to
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: sort of like slow down and be like, okay, well, yeah, no,
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: remember that. Yeah, the New Republic's the rebellion that they
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: took over already because there hasn't been enough story laid
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: about the New Republic to this point.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, if the sequels had been better, this
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: wouldn't have been a problem. So but I will say again,
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: this is where a whole show devoted to these ideas.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: You're you know, you don't have to feel like you
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: have to try and shoehorn in into the Mandalorian these ideas,
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: because it would have already been set up in another
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: show that somebody could have watched, you know, and given
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: them the context. And I think it could have done
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: it in a way that did kind of make it
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: more accessible because it has again eight episodes to bring
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: people into the world, right, and with a character that
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: you were already familiar with from the Mandalorian right and
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: characters right, I mean, you know, I think you would
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: have had Carsoneva who you had seen in you would
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: have seen somebody like we see in this episode zeb
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: right of being a part of that world most likely.
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, okay, I do have to say that there
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: is a part of me that is really really frustrated
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: by everything you're talking about, because what they wanted was
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: they wanted to have their cake and eat it too.
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: To borrow an old phrase, and in a logical sense,
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: what should have happened is full breaks on production. If
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: you're going to cancel a show, you have to say, okay,
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: you know what, I'm not just going to read and
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: try to bring these things in. I got to stop
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: for an extra six months if I'm willing to stop
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: Rise of Skywalker for an extra however many months because J. J.
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: Abrams is trying to tweak the story, or I'm willing
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: to stop Force Awakens for six months because they're trying
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: to fix a thing, then you can wait another six
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: months to set things right this way or figure out, Okay,
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: how do we make a different show. We've still got
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: the volume rented, we've still got the story ideas, we
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: can go through with that. But dealing with this show
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: in specific, I mean, again, there's so much that's good.
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: But what I want to what I want to fixate
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: on in this moment is Carson Teva encountering the wrecked shuttle.
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: I contend it really should have happened in an earlier episode.
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: Which episode would you have put it on if it
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: was not here? As part of chapter twenty one, the Pirate.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: Possibly an interesting stinger to the previous episode. The Foundling
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: would have worked there, and then it would have also
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: led into him when he goes to Corussant in this episode,
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: him saying, hey, I found the shuttle. It looks like,
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: you know, maf getting escaped, and we've got this pirate thing,
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: and so it kind of makes his case eat a
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: little bit stronger, and yet then you know, at the
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: same time, it makes the New Republic shuffling its feet
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: even worse. You know, I could see that being the case.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: What about you?
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: I would have put it as a scene at the
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: end of the very first episode, because everybody knows Maf Gideon.
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: Everybody loves Maf Gideon. Everybody he's the big bad He's
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: trying to hurt our little baby Yoda. You have Bocatan
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: sitting in her throne at the end of the Apostate.
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: We've talked about how certain things should have been shuffled,
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: but how much stronger is that episode if he leaves
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: her on.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: Her you know, her moon or whatever.
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: That she's sitting there sulking, fade out, fade back in,
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: you find out Maf Gideon is missing. That tees up
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: so much intrigue later that even actually would redeem having
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: the convert episode happen, because you're like, oh, right, Maff Gideon,
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: he got his shuttles missing. This is wrong to have
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: it at the end of this episode. I would have
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: had it as part of the first episode because Maf
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: Gideon is the villain we've been following this whole time.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: I think that's that's really strong, and I think you're
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: right in the sense that that makes the intrigue then
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: with you know, Katie O'Brien's character with doctor Pershing much
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: more interesting because you know, you're constantly questioning more in
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: that episode, is she good? Is she bad? You know,
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff, and so when we get
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: to the end of that episode, you're like, oh, so
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: she's a plant. That's interesting.
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: I think you're right in the sense that And this
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: is one of those things where again, approaching this season
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: slightly more like a prestige television show where storylines are
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: kind of being interwoven together would have helped it extremely
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: like it just would have been a better season if
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: you had done that. And that's the problem I think
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: is we're discussing in this episode and all of these
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: episodes have continued in this season, is that there's not
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: anything wrong with what you're trying to do story wise.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: It's the editing of the stories together that has caused
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: the conundrum. And so what you just needed to do
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: is you needed to go back and rewrite this season
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: in to better flow all of these storylines together. So
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: you just basically needed, you know, one of those big
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: foam boards that George used to have with the story elements,
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: and you'd be like, Okay, if we move this here,
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: this helps this better. You know, it's like you just
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: you just need to be able to see it. This
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: is all the story, So let's organize this in a
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: way that helps the flow of the season. And you know,
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: it's it's clear that they hadn't done that, because you're right.
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: I mean again, the stuff that we get to in
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: this episode that is so good, which is the stuff
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: about the Mandalorians, which is the most interesting part of
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: the series in general, which is Mando Grogu and now
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: his connection with the larger Mandalorian culture, which we, as
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: Star Wars fans, are very excited to be exploring, especially
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: after all the stuff that we saw in the Clone
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: Wars and Rebels. Man. We're primed for that type of thing,
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: and so it's just a disappointment that this season couldn't
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: find a way, and we put it this way, that
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: this season didn't find a way in its storytelling to
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: accentuate its positives instead of the negatives that we've had
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: to talk about in too many of these episodes.
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: So where do you land on the vaunted five star scale.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: I'm going to give this a three and a half
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: out of five, and that is because, like you said
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: in the rewatch, I think that the story elements that
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: I really do like came to the forefront more so,
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: and I cared less about you know, Captain easter Basket
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: being there, like, which really bothered me the first time
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: because he's just such a terrible design. Otherwise, you know,
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: it's the other stuff that now that I know that
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: that's there, can ameliorate that, you know, can make that lessoned.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean by the end of the episode,
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: I'm so with it, you know, And yeah, it just
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: means that, ah, you could have had a home run,
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: but you didn't. You know, you got maybe a dup.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: You gotta double, you know, So what about you.
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna end up the same way three and a half.
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: There's plenty to enjoy about this episode, and what we're
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: nitpicking about is the fact that this is this is
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: a five star episode that gets hampered by what they
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: did to the rest of the season.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: That's it. So it winds up at a three and
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: a half.
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: So this five star episode pays for the sins of
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: everything else.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: And that's a shame. It's a darn shame.
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: So you know, but you know, if people want to
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: yell at you about everything, with our review, with our nitpicking,
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: with our story editing, uh, you know, criticisms and stuff.
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: Like that, where can they find you online?
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: Well, of course I love being yelled at, who doesn't.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: You can find me all over social media under the
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: name Matt Rushing Zoe two. Of course, here on the network,
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: I've got a completed show called Owlpost about every single
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: chapter of the Harry Potter series. You can also find
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: me on the TFM network. Got a bunch of shows.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: One is called the six oh two Club. John's a
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: frequent guest over there where we're talking about all of
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: the franchises we love. In fact, we may have a
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: fun crossover coming up. Plus we'll also be doing a
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: Mandalorian episode. So that's right, folks, don't worry. You're gonna
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: get your you're gonna get your Mando fix. But you
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: know we're gonna we're gonna throw in some bonus for you,
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: because how can we not talk about well, I don't
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: want to give away anyway, John, Where can people find you.
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: Well, you can find me on line as Kessel Junkie.
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: The social networks of choice that I enjoy most are
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: letterbox and Goodreads because very few people get angry at me,
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: although some people do get angry at me on Goodreads
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: every so often, because there is nothing I won't read,
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: and I read some really weird stuff. So as Kevin Spacey,
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: as Lex Luthor says in Superman Returns, bring it on
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: and you can of course find me here on the network,
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: co hosting a show called house Lights with Darren Moser
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: and Tristan Riddell, where it is my weekly therapy session
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: of enduring their movie opinions about different things having to
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: do with the works of directors and informing them why
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: they should agree with me. So, but I'm called to
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: do it, and I do it gladly. So Master rushing
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: with that said, I actually have planned a very special
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: movie festival in the Jedi Temple, wherein we are going
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: to be showing all of the James Bond movies. But
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: in twenty minute segment it's an out of order, so
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: I think it's time to close these negotiations.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: Well, I guess negotiations are closed. Join the Revolution, Join
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: the Nerd Party,