Latest / The BioHub - by Avetix / Episode 150 - Dr Atta Behfar - Founder of Rion

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Episode 150 - Dr Atta Behfar - Founder of Rion · The BioHub - by Avetix

0:06
So welcome back to another episode of the Bio Hub.
0:09
Today I'm joined by Doctor Atta Befar, Co founder of Rion, and
0:13
Van Cleave Professor of Regenerative Medicine at Mayo
0:16
Clinic, a leading voice in this world of cell free therapeutics
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and exosome science. Atta's work at Mayo led to a
0:24
major discovery. That discovery became the
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foundation for Rion, a clinical stage company developing
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purified exosome products and off the shelf regenerative
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platform designed to make powerful biologics accessible to
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patients everywhere. Today, we're going to talk about
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the discovery that sparked the company, the meaning behind the
0:44
real name, how Atta has built a uniquely focused team, their
0:49
wound healing milestones and the future of their exosome
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platform. So let's get into it.
0:55
Atta, how are you? Good.
0:57
How are you? Yeah, really.
0:58
Well, excited to do this. It's a it is seriously a
1:01
pleasure to have you. And look, let's just start from
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the beginning. What was the discovery that
1:07
ultimately LED you to founding Rheum?
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So the the main discovery that led to rheum was really this
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evolution from stem cell biology where we were using stem cells
1:21
to try to heal tissues. So realization that the stem
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cells, at least the cells we were using, which were
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mesenchymal stem cells at the time, weren't really the
1:34
building blocks of tissue healing, but they were actually
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secreting messages, which we later learned were exosomes that
1:43
were driving tissue regeneration.
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The key finding, though, that really sparked all of the steps
1:53
that led to rheum was the realization that the main
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messenger, the main manufacturer of these regenerative signals or
2:03
regenerative exosomes, weren't actually the stem cells.
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They were more of like a middle man.
2:08
They were recycling these messages that were actually
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coming from platelets, which are in your bloodstream.
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You already know that the messages come from your playlist
2:20
because when you cut yourself, you look down.
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You're like, oh, I'm bleeding and it's the platelets in your
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blood that then heal your skin. It just took us a lot of science
2:31
to distill down what is that singular message of these
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platelets are offering to achieve that regenerative.
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Once we had that and we could scale it and manufacture it, we
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started RIA. Amazing.
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And then for those who who don't know Rheon, how do you explain
2:50
what Rheon does and why purified exosome products are such a
2:55
breakthrough for regenerative medicine?
2:58
So the focus of Rheon, and Rheon is now about 8 years old, has
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really been to take that discovery, that finding that
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these unique exosomes can heal tissue, and figure out a way to
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now manufacture huge quantities of those exosomes to create
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uniform doses so that we could use them in medicine.
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That was objective #1 make a lot of the stuff seems to be really
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helping with a variety of conditions.
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Objective #2 was really around the concept of, all right, we
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have this product, how can it really be most compatible with
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medical practice, right? So you can make a lot of
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something, but if you have to freeze it and it has to be in a
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frozen chest to get to a clinic, has to be thawed carefully, all
3:59
these little steps, geez, it's not going to be very easy for a
4:02
physician to use it, right? And So what we set out to do was
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to actually make this room temperature stable as a dry
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powder so that you could literally just add saline or
4:16
water to the product to wake it up and apply it to, you know, a
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variety of clinical conditions. Yeah, that's awesome.
4:27
We'll come back to that and like the certain milestones you're
4:31
going to hit. But I asked you this last time
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we spoke and I always find it quite interesting in terms of
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the name Rion and where it came from.
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And then also, just like how does it reflect the identity and
4:44
mission of of what you're trying to create?
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The name Rion actually comes from the name of a city in
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Greece. It's a small town where the Co
4:58
founders family is from and actually has a family home
5:02
there. And when we were launching the
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company and thinking what are we going to call this thing?
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He unfortunately had a family event there where a family
5:13
member got sick back in Greece. And he was there and I was
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talking to him and we said, well, if our mission succeeds
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and we can really produce a product that is off the shelf.
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In other words, room temperature stable, can go anywhere on the
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planet. And one more element that it is
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cost effective. In other words that we can make
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it at a low cost so everyone can have access to it.
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Then we've really succeeded. And so naturally came the idea.
5:51
Well, if we name the company Rion, if this product can get
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all the way to Rion, then we've succeeded.
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And so we name the company that so would remind us every day
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that that is our ultimate objective to democratize
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regenerative medicine. I think it's a great story and
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like a great link to, to what you're trying to do.
6:19
It's yeah, I think, I think it fits so nicely.
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And sometimes names can be created and there's not really
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too much meaning behind them. But like in this case, it just
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fits so well. And then beyond that, you've
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you've now built a team with a a very niche focus in exosome
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science and regenerative biology.
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What, what do you look for in those early hires and how do you
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bring people into a field that that's this specialized?
6:49
Yeah. So that was a challenge, right?
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So we're going down a road that really hadn't been traversed
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before. And right, we had to assemble a
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team that hopefully could allow us to go from where we were when
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we launched the company out of Mayo all the way to where we are
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now. And so there are two types of
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individuals that we had to hire. We had to hire people with
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significant expertise in their domains, right?
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So people had that have been there and done that in related
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fields, right? So whether it's in other types
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of biologics like monoclonal antibodies or cell therapies,
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you know, we would have to have manufacturing and regulatory
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expertise because with expertise there can be pivots, right?
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And there can be areas of synergy or complementarity that
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can then be leveraged, right? If we're zero experience and
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we're just making it up as we go, big risk.
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So that was 1, you know, some of our early hires fed into that
8:03
category. But then we had a few hires with
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what I call fire in the belly, right?
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They may have just been just out of Graduate School or, you know,
8:18
very early on in their career, but extremely intelligent and
8:23
extremely hungry and really believed in the mission, the
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overarching mission of what we were trying to accomplish that
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the re on vision, if you will. And so I think between the
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experience with some more senior team members and these younger
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individuals who had a lot of drive, we were able to coalesce
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a team and then ultimately grow a team that that's been
8:56
effective. Yeah, that's been a big part of
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who you are, right? Like, I don't know if you just
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want to talk through the story from from day one founding to
9:07
like where you are now and then we can talk through some of the
9:10
milestones you've got coming up as well.
9:14
Sure. Like in terms of how we founded
9:17
Rion and what's what's transpired in terms of
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milestones? Yeah.
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Yeah, absolutely. So you know, we made this key
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discovery, right? And when you sort of have
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science is 95% failure, right? Like you try different things
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that you just constantly. I always tell our grad students,
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there's a reason why it's called research because the letters RE
9:42
you have to keep researching over and over and over, right?
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And so it's, it's painful at times.
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And so when you have a big finding something that really
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works and consistently works, it's almost like a gift.
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And so we launched Rian with this idea that really we were
10:05
gifted this opportunity and we had to see it through in the
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most effective way possible, both cost effective, time
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effective. And the other vision for the
10:19
company was that, you know, biotechs typically just go
10:26
through money, raise more money, go through money, raise more
10:29
money, go through. And so as we were developing our
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clinical strategy and our clinical pipeline, we needed to
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come up with a way to actually try to generate revenues in the
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company, right? So that was sort of day one.
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We thought through that. We have a phenomenal investment
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group. You know, the initial investors
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have been wonderful. Our board has been, these are
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unbelievable business people, right?
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So they were really able to help scientists set a business
11:07
strategy for how to actually grow this company.
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And so we had, we decided very early on, OK, well, that story I
11:17
told you about cutting yourself looking down and you're bleeding
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and then your skin heals while these platelet exosomes have it,
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are extremely powerful and regenerating skin.
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You know, you know that every from your everyday life, right?
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And so why not go after skin applications?
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They're the easiest in terms of safety and in terms of like
11:45
getting things launched. And since this is a brand new
11:49
technology then, you know, the FDA had never heard of before,
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it's a lot more straightforward for them to look at the product
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and agree that it's safe on skin, right?
12:02
And so that's really where the wound effort was initially
12:07
launched and we continue to collaborate with male
12:12
investigators and gave them product to play around with in
12:18
their laboratories. And so while we were building
12:21
the skin effort, we were also collaborating with many
12:26
laboratories, including my own laboratory at Mayo to see if we
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could use it in the heart, for example, which is, you know, my
12:35
clinical specialty or in Women's Health or in orthopedics.
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Essentially, you know, you, you look at medicine and there are
12:45
all these gaps in practice right there, all these things where
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we're like, well, we can't treat that anymore.
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And what we hope to do was in some elements, obviously this
12:58
isn't going to cure everything, but for some things, especially
13:01
things that are chronic and don't heal different syndromes,
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we felt that this product may be of service, right.
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So, and those are really the clinical pipelines that we
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started to develop even maybe as early as 6-7 years ago while we
13:22
were working on skin, we came to the realization that actually
13:28
folks were using the product on their own hands and skin like so
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you know, we're trying to see if it makes skin cells grow.
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Meanwhile, we have folks that have a rash and they're putting
13:40
it on their hands and rash is gone, right.
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So we realized that there may be a topical application more on
13:49
the cosmetic side of the equation rather than the other
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side of the equation. Cosmetics has a whole different
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pathway for approval and clearance.
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So we we went down the road of doing what's called repeat and
14:08
sell patch testing, you know, on humans and several additional
14:14
tests just to document safety and reproducibility.
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And we were able to create a product that we call Plated that
14:26
really leverage the power of the science, but could be scaled and
14:31
manufactured in a way that could serve in the consumer space
14:36
rather than on the medicinal side of the equation.
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And so that products actually very fortunately gained a lot of
14:45
traction and it's now in many physician offices around the
14:51
United States. And you know, definitely it's
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weird that folks actually recognize me for that.
15:00
You know, I'm like in the State Fair or wherever and like, oh,
15:03
you're the play that guy. So that's a little bit funny,
15:08
but. That's so good to hear though,
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like recognition for what you're doing.
15:12
Yeah, no, exactly. So, so I think, you know, that
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really has helped than support the success in the cosmetic
15:22
space has really help support now the more auspicious efforts
15:26
in trying to cure non healing wounds to be able to treat
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patients that, you know, like your typical Mayo Clinic patient
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has no options, has had a wound for 2-3 years that's not healing
15:39
and we can help them and offer the therapy for free, right.
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So the fact that the cosmetics effort has been successful has
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allowed us to do trials, but it's also allowed us to help
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these patients without charging them.
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Yeah, I mean it's amazing. And then you know, I've also got
15:56
sent your products. Here.
15:57
Oh nice. Yeah, you're gonna look.
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You can send over a coms team. Yeah, I haven't opened this yet,
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but I'll do it while you're talking about it.
16:09
Where am I applying this? What am I doing with it?
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So, so this is a cardiologist telling you how to put a skin
16:16
product on, but essentially you just need a little bit goes a
16:21
long way and you can apply it just to your fingertip and then,
16:27
you know, put a few dabs around your areas of interest.
16:33
And then just sort of I want. To face.
16:36
Smear it in. Yeah, Yeah.
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There you go. What, what, what we've shown and
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we've really tried to maintain the the research rigor and the
16:50
scientific rigor. You know, just as we approach
16:54
every other effort that we have coming out of Rheon.
16:59
Rheon Aesthetics, which is the company that commercialized this
17:05
product really has taken on that same culture where if we say it
17:12
reduces wrinkles or if we say it reduces redness or if we say
17:18
that it has antioxidant effects etcetera, etcetera.
17:23
We've actually done the task. We've gone through the peer
17:28
reviewed scientific process and that paper is published.
17:34
So we've really tried at every stage with any product that we
17:41
manufacture, produce or are studying, whether it's on the
17:45
commercial side or in the clinical trial side, everything
17:49
has to be backed up with years of science.
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And I think I'm very happy that Plated, we can say that Plated
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really aligns with that. Yeah, you already look better.
18:01
I mean. I was going to say we're going
18:03
to do a before and after where we compare definitely.
18:09
I mean, just going on what you said there in terms of like the
18:12
science and and going back to Rion, you said to me when we
18:17
were doing our briefing call that that Rion is, is different
18:21
in terms of the science, the model and philosophy.
18:26
And then you also spoke about the people earlier what what
18:29
makes people buy in to re on so quickly?
18:35
So I think that we don't necessarily want them to buy in
18:42
quickly. I think we want them to buy in
18:45
with information and, and what we have always tried to do
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actually, I was telling the team this yesterday, we re on whether
18:56
it's when we're talking with other scientists or
18:59
collaborators or investors, we have always wanted to provide
19:05
factual, accurate, truthful information.
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And, and really at this point in time, we want to provide a
19:16
scientific vision that inspires in part.
19:21
And So what the team is doing is not only really making
19:26
breakthroughs in the exosome space for manufacturing and
19:30
getting to, you know, these pivotal trials now, which is
19:36
honestly in and of itself like a world's first.
19:40
But we're trying to think about how do we imagine a future where
19:47
the field of exosomes really becomes a chapter in our
19:51
pharmacology books, right? Like, how can this this science
19:57
really helped other medicines? Like, can we take things that
20:02
are only available IV and make them available orally, right?
20:05
So that people don't have to go home with these lines?
20:08
Or if you need chemotherapy, you don't need to put in a port,
20:12
which is an infection risk, all these sorts of them.
20:15
Can we take very expensive drugs?
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That require these giant manufacturing structures and
20:22
actually leverage the power of your own body to make some of
20:27
these drugs, especially like monoclonal antibodies.
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I think exosomes not only serve as a spark of the imagination
20:37
for tissue healing, which is where we are today, but I think
20:42
as we learn more and more about the science, we're really not
20:47
able to imagine a world where a lot of healthcare delivery can
20:55
be potentially democratized in the same way that we've aspired
21:00
to democratize the original product.
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And I think, you know, when we show the data behind that, the
21:06
data behind that enthusiasm and vision, I think people get
21:10
pretty excited. Yeah, I think so.
21:13
I think so. I think it's, it's super
21:16
exciting. So let let's just talk the, the
21:19
upcoming milestones and you, you've hit some big steps so
21:24
far, but what, what, what's to come?
21:26
What's coming up? So I think the 2026, there are
21:32
going to be several big efforts that are launching.
21:36
So I think on our therapeutic side of the equation at Rion, we
21:43
are going to be in pivotal trials for wound healing, which
21:47
is phenomenal. This is like amazing the largest
21:49
scale pivotal trial in exosomes today ever.
21:54
So I think that for us and our team, huge achievement, right,
21:59
like we've been working for eight years to get to this
22:03
point. We have helped, you know,
22:07
numerous patients with non healing wounds.
22:09
We're going to see if we can somehow gain an approach to get
22:19
get those patients more expedited care, but also for
22:23
patients with other types of more chronic wounds, can we get
22:27
them a product that you know, doctor can prescribe are we're
22:33
making big strides in our orthopedics area.
22:36
So for joints and tendon regeneration, those trials are
22:42
under way and I think we'll we'll get some very cool data
22:46
there on the aesthetic side. So you have the cosmetic
22:52
product, but on the other side of the equation with platelet
22:58
exosomes, we're going to develop a an injectable product.
23:06
We already have developed it, but we're going to study it now
23:08
for skin rejuvenation and for guys like me for hair
23:13
restoration to ascertain whether it can be of utility there.
23:20
So I think those are going to be some fun next steps on the
23:25
aesthetic side. Along with that, we actually
23:29
came to realize several years ago that maybe platelets aren't
23:36
just good for the human body, but it could help our pets as
23:40
well, right? So this year we actually
23:43
launched Rheon Vet. And so Rheon Vet is really
23:49
focused on horses and dogs. And so we're going to do joint
23:54
therapy for both horses and dogs and then we may also do skin
23:59
therapy for dogs in particular. And then you know, as we've
24:04
developed more sophisticated platform for let's say
24:10
pulmonary, cardiovascular, mucosal injury, GI, other
24:15
things, we will delve now into those next generation elements
24:24
as as we move forward in the company.
24:28
I think it's super exciting. Yeah.
24:30
I mean particularly the the wound healing pipeline is is
24:35
getting a lot of a lot of attention.
24:40
Can you just go into a bit maybe a bit more detail about that, in
24:43
particular what, what's the full vision and what could it really
24:48
mean for patients as well? Yeah, absolutely.
24:51
So the wound healing effort has been all sort of like how we
24:57
launch Rihanna aesthetics to focus on aesthetic and cosmetic
25:01
application. Yeah, we have launched a company
25:05
called Intent for with a pure focus on wound healing.
25:12
Why? Because wounds heal by
25:13
intention. So Intent was a cool name for
25:16
that effort. And the premise behind going
25:24
after wound healing was that it is really an unmet need in
25:29
medical practice. So, you know, if you go right
25:32
now and talk to any given medical resident and any
25:36
hospital in the United States and ask them who are the
25:40
patients you're not discharging or who are the patients who you
25:44
not end up for long, you know, with long stays in nursing
25:47
homes. They're the non healing wounds.
25:50
10 million Americans have chronic wounds that are non
25:53
healing. Last time a drug was approved
25:58
was in 1997, right? So everything we have, it's a
26:05
it's a mind boggling, right? So something effects 10 million
26:07
Americans has had a drug approved in almost 30 years.
26:12
Everything that is utilized is essentially considered a device.
26:18
So very sophisticated bandages, right, collagen bandage this
26:22
that the other type of bandage. But because the evidence behind
26:28
the benefit of these fancy bandages was sparse and the cost
26:34
for the bandages are very high. CMS, which is the organization
26:39
that really, you know, it's like the big insurance, Medicare,
26:44
Medicaid in the United States essentially has decided to
26:49
eliminate about 90% of these products as being reimbursable,
26:55
right? So not only is has there not
26:58
been a drug approved, now there's this big gap in what can
27:03
be offered and reimbursed for wound healing.
27:07
And the desire by the FDA, by CMS to have trial base
27:15
technologies that come with good evidence of healing.
27:19
And so intense now is very uniquely positioned going into
27:23
pivotal trials to offer such as technology.
27:27
And hopefully I'm working with the FDA who has recognized wound
27:33
healing as a serious healthcare crisis in the United States.
27:38
Hopefully, I'm working with the FDA, we can accelerate our
27:43
efforts and really get this, get this resource to patients that
27:48
need it. Yeah, amazing.
27:50
I mean it's been great hearing about Rian and thanks so much
27:54
for coming on. I've got one last question,
27:57
which is the the question we ask all our guests, which is if you
28:02
could have dinner with any scientist or innovator, past or
28:05
present, who, who would it be and why?
28:08
That's a great question. Yeah, I've thought about this
28:12
before a little bit. I think it would have to be
28:16
Linus Pauling. He passed away in the mid 90s.
28:22
Unfortunately, Linus Pauling was the scientist that essentially
28:32
established in my mind every building block that we now
28:39
utilize in molecular biology. So like all of the, you know,
28:44
protein, protein interaction, the forces, how protein
28:49
structures are created, how molecules, and a lot of what we
28:53
ended up doing to purify our exosomes.
28:59
If you go back, the foundation is that right?
29:03
And so it really comes from Linus Pauling.
29:09
And so, you know, especially over the next five years as we
29:13
go from, you know, purification of this natural occurring, very
29:18
potent regenerate biologic to hopefully contributing to an
29:22
emerging field of pharmacotherapy.
29:27
I, you know, it would be very cool to just like share with
29:32
them like what all the work that he had done essentially almost
29:38
100 years ago has done to advance science in the way it
29:46
has. Yeah, I mean, that's an
29:49
incredible answer. And look for, thank you so much
29:52
for coming on out here. It's been a pleasure.
29:54
Thank you so much, Really appreciate your time.
29:57
Yeah, and look, I'll continue using this.
30:00
It's what wonders already, but honestly pleasure to have you
30:05
on. Please everyone like and
30:07
subscribe to the Bio Hub and Avetics podcast and thank you
30:10
again, Atta.