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SMNTY Classics: The Substance · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Any and Samantha.
0:07
Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff Never Told You production by Heardio, and
0:19
Speaker 2: welcome to another classic for today.
0:22
Speaker 1: I thought we would bring back the one we did
0:25
Speaker 1: at the time.
0:25
Speaker 2: I guess it's still kind of a Spoiled Saturdays, but
0:29
Speaker 2: at the time it was very spoiled on the substance,
0:34
Speaker 2: just because we've had a lot of conversations about kind
0:38
Speaker 2: of ozimpic culture what that looks like. And I sent
0:42
Speaker 2: you that post I saw about a horror movie that's
0:46
Speaker 2: coming out specifically about that, and I think the substance
0:53
Speaker 2: has come up in a lot of those conversations.
0:55
Speaker 3: Right, He's made his name in that genre body horror slash.
1:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well, and I mentioned that I have some
1:06
Speaker 2: friends who are taking some of these substances and we
1:11
Speaker 2: call it the substance jokingly. So that has just been
1:15
Speaker 2: on my mind lately. So please enjoy this classic episode.
1:25
Speaker 4: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha.
1:27
Speaker 1: I wope this stuff I Never Told You production of iHeartRadio.
1:39
Speaker 2: And welcome to a special New Year's edition of Spoiled Saturdays.
1:45
Speaker 2: Content morning before we began disordered eating, agism, sexism, general grossness,
1:51
Speaker 2: I guess, but yeah, this is a New Year's movie,
1:54
Speaker 2: New Year, New You, that's what I say.
1:57
Speaker 1: Spoilers. That spoilers.
2:01
Speaker 2: Thanks to your listeners for suggesting this movie. Thanks to
2:04
Speaker 2: Christina who kind of suggested it after our Death becomes
2:08
Speaker 2: her episode. I really really recommend that you go into
2:11
Speaker 2: this movie knowing as little as possible at being said,
2:14
Speaker 2: I'm not going to sugarcoat it's really gross.
2:16
Speaker 1: It does not hold back, but it's it's a bonkers
2:21
Speaker 1: it's wild ride. It's a wild ride.
2:23
Speaker 3: Traumatized honestly, Like I literally had to sit back for
2:27
Speaker 3: a second and then turn off a familiar show and
2:31
Speaker 3: sit there, even though I'm like an hour past my
2:34
Speaker 3: typical bedtime, and I was like, I have to watch
2:36
Speaker 3: something else before I go to bed.
2:36
Speaker 4: I can't. I can't do this. So that took a
2:41
Speaker 4: good hour of detoxing.
2:42
Speaker 1: Yes, detoxing.
2:47
Speaker 2: Yes, it's funny, because everybody was telling me I needed
2:50
Speaker 2: to see it, and they were like, I can't even
2:52
Speaker 2: explain to you. It's so wild, and I kind of like,
2:56
Speaker 2: I've seen so much that's I'm sure I've seen it. Nope,
3:00
Speaker 2: couldn't predict that one. So I love it. I'm so
3:07
Speaker 2: excited to talk about it. Okay, so here's the plot.
3:10
Speaker 2: The Substance is a twenty twenty four sci fi horror
3:13
Speaker 2: satire film, directed, written, and produced by Coralie Farja and
3:18
Speaker 2: starring Demi Moore, Margaret Qualley, and Dennis Quaid. It was
3:22
Speaker 2: a co production between the US, the UK and France.
3:25
Speaker 2: Since it debuted, it has been a critical and commercial
3:28
Speaker 2: success and has generated a lot of conversation. Also has
3:33
Speaker 2: a lot of really cool practical effects, and I suggest
3:35
Speaker 2: looking up how they did them if you're interested, because
3:38
Speaker 2: it's really cool. The movie opens on celebrity Elizabeth sparkles
3:44
Speaker 2: to me Moore getting a star on the Hollywood Walk
3:47
Speaker 2: of Fan. Then we see the progression of time as
3:50
Speaker 2: it goes from being a star people take pictures with
3:53
Speaker 2: that was kept clean to one that no one recognizes,
3:56
Speaker 2: and people spill food on and eventually it cracks. On
4:00
Speaker 2: her fiftieth birthday, Elizabeth is filming for her long running
4:04
Speaker 2: aerobic show when she accidentally overhears that she is being
4:08
Speaker 2: fired because of her age and is going to be
4:11
Speaker 2: replaced by someone younger and more beautiful. After being formally
4:15
Speaker 2: let go, she crashes her car while driving back to
4:18
Speaker 2: her apartment. When she sees a billboard of herself already
4:21
Speaker 2: being taken down at the hospital. A young orderly slips
4:25
Speaker 2: her a flash drive that he says changed his life on.
4:30
Speaker 2: It is an ad for something called the Substance, a
4:33
Speaker 2: black market product that promises a better, younger, prettier version
4:37
Speaker 2: of yourself. So Elizabeth is kind of thinking about all
4:41
Speaker 2: this and sort of decides not to do it. She
4:45
Speaker 2: runs into a man her age from her class from homeroom,
4:49
Speaker 2: and he asks her if they can go get drinks sometime.
4:52
Speaker 2: Elizabeth somewhat reluctantly agrees to get his number, which he
4:56
Speaker 2: scribbles on a piece of paper that he then promptly
4:59
Speaker 2: drops in the mumm and hands it to her. Anyway,
5:02
Speaker 2: she decides, after a few drinks, to order the Substance,
5:09
Speaker 2: which is a real secretive process that involves her going
5:14
Speaker 2: by a number, going to a secret location where no
5:18
Speaker 2: one is there. It's like the door doesn't even open
5:21
Speaker 2: all the way. There's a lot of block boxes, and
5:24
Speaker 2: that's how she gets the kit. It's kind of a
5:27
Speaker 2: complicated process, but essentially here it is. There's a single
5:32
Speaker 2: use activator daily syringes for stabilizer fluid from the spine
5:38
Speaker 2: and an ivy of nutrients for both the matrix, the
5:41
Speaker 2: original self and the other self, which is necessary because
5:46
Speaker 2: once Elizabeth uses the activator, she collapses on the floor
5:50
Speaker 2: and a younger version of herself emerges from a slit
5:53
Speaker 2: in her back. She then, the younger version, has to
5:57
Speaker 2: hook up the nutrients to her older self the main
6:00
Speaker 2: and inject some stablaris or fluid drawn from Elizabeth to
6:04
Speaker 2: keep her from deteriorating herself. She also has to sew
6:07
Speaker 2: up the back. The way the system works is that
6:10
Speaker 2: they have to switch every seven days, no exception. It's
6:13
Speaker 2: made very clear that they are the same person. The
6:17
Speaker 2: balance must be respected. There is no she and you.
6:21
Speaker 2: You are the same. The younger version quality calls herself Sue.
6:27
Speaker 2: Sue goes to audition for Elizabeth's old role on the
6:31
Speaker 2: Aerobic show, which is now called Pump It Up, and
6:34
Speaker 2: she gets it after a very sexy audition. Harvey's played
6:39
Speaker 2: by Quaid and yes, that name was intentional. Harvey, the
6:42
Speaker 2: producer who led Elizabeth go, is thrilled about her and
6:45
Speaker 2: even agrees to make her odd scheduling situation work. Sue's
6:50
Speaker 2: image replaces Elizabeth on billboards, notably one's visible from Elizabeth's apartment.
6:57
Speaker 2: Sue becomes a huge success. While about to have sex
7:02
Speaker 2: with someone, Sue starts to feel dizzy and realizes it
7:04
Speaker 2: is time to switch back, but she doesn't want to,
7:07
Speaker 2: so she breaks the rules and takes more stabilizer fluid
7:10
Speaker 2: from an unconscious Elizabeth. The next day, when Elizabeth wakes up,
7:15
Speaker 2: one of her fingers is completely dead like a corpse's Angry,
7:19
Speaker 2: Elizabeth calls the number she'd used to order the substance
7:22
Speaker 2: and tells them what happened. They remind her there is
7:26
Speaker 2: no her and you, that they are the same, and
7:29
Speaker 2: asks if she wants to quit. She refuses, and in
7:32
Speaker 2: this conversation, Elizabeth keeps saying like she needs to respect
7:36
Speaker 2: the balance. She has to respect the balance. Sue constructs
7:40
Speaker 2: the sort of secret room in the bathroom tows Elizabeth's
7:44
Speaker 2: unconscious body so she can have people over. Even though
7:48
Speaker 2: she is really successful, she starts to have worries about
7:51
Speaker 2: her own body becoming misshapen, even having a pretty nightmarish
7:55
Speaker 2: hallucination where chicken bone comes out of her skin. But
7:58
Speaker 2: she is offered the network's coveted New Year's Eve special
8:02
Speaker 2: watch millions of people.
8:05
Speaker 1: She agrees.
8:07
Speaker 2: As Sue grows more successful and parties, Elizabeth becomes a
8:12
Speaker 2: self hating.
8:12
Speaker 1: Hermit who binges.
8:14
Speaker 2: She hate watches interviews with Sue where Sue insults her
8:20
Speaker 2: she cooks from the cookbook Harvey gave her, like whole turkeys,
8:24
Speaker 2: just food everywhere.
8:26
Speaker 1: She doesn't clean up.
8:27
Speaker 2: This is very spiteful on her part, where she's like,
8:30
Speaker 2: you canna wake up and see this mess. Sue is
8:34
Speaker 2: furious when they switch and and she sees the mess,
8:38
Speaker 2: and she decides she will not switch back takes a
8:43
Speaker 2: bunch of stabilizer fluid. A few months later, right before
8:48
Speaker 2: the New Year's Eve show, Sue runs out of her
8:51
Speaker 2: supply of this fluid and can no longer extract anymore
8:55
Speaker 2: from Elizabeth. The supplier tells her the only way to
8:58
Speaker 2: get more fluid is to switch, so that Elizabeth can
9:01
Speaker 2: replenish the supply. Furious but very desperate, Sue switches back.
9:07
Speaker 2: Elizabeth is now pretty much a walking corpse. Her bones
9:12
Speaker 2: are breaking, she is hunched over, she has lost her hair. Outraged,
9:18
Speaker 2: Elizabeth calls up the supplier, demanding that they put an
9:21
Speaker 2: end to the whole thing. She wants it to stop.
9:24
Speaker 2: The supplier impresses upon her that there is no going
9:27
Speaker 2: back if she decides to do this, but Elizabeth insists,
9:30
Speaker 2: ordering a serum to terminate Sue. Elizabeth injects Sue with
9:34
Speaker 2: about half the serum before she stops, Realizing she doesn't
9:38
Speaker 2: want to let go of the admiration and attention that
9:41
Speaker 2: Sue is getting. She doesn't know how to live without her.
9:44
Speaker 2: Sue wakes up the termination fluid, leaves them both conscious
9:49
Speaker 2: and realizes that Elizabeth tried to kill her and attacks her.
9:54
Speaker 2: After a vicious fight, Sue kills Elizabeth and goes to
9:57
Speaker 2: film the New Year's Eve special. However, she doesn't have
10:02
Speaker 2: any more stabilizer fluid and Elizabeth is dead, so her
10:05
Speaker 2: body starts to deteriorate very quickly. Desperate, she tries to
10:10
Speaker 2: create a newer, better version of herself by using the Activator,
10:15
Speaker 2: the single use Activator, despite the warning. This leads to
10:19
Speaker 2: the creation of Monstrosso Eliza Sue, a monstrous amalgamation of Elizabeth, Sue.
10:26
Speaker 1: And the new version. She kind of looks like the
10:29
Speaker 1: rat King from the Last of Us two. To be
10:31
Speaker 1: honest and.
10:32
Speaker 2: Sorry about it anyway, she puts on Eliza Zue Monstrosso
10:39
Speaker 2: Eliza Sue puts on the very Cinderella looking dress, puts
10:42
Speaker 2: on a cutout mask of Elizabeth's face when she was younger,
10:46
Speaker 2: and takes the stage.
10:48
Speaker 1: The mask soon falls to the audience's.
10:51
Speaker 2: Horror, and she sort of gives birth to a breast
10:55
Speaker 2: on live broadcast. People are freaking out. A man tries
10:59
Speaker 2: to cut her hand and her head off. People are
11:01
Speaker 2: calling her monster, and another even more grotesque head sprouts
11:07
Speaker 2: in that place.
11:09
Speaker 1: Her arm falls off. Blood is spewing everywhere, covering everyone,
11:14
Speaker 1: including Harvey and the execs.
11:16
Speaker 2: He introduced Sue to like twenty one thousand liters of blood.
11:21
Speaker 1: I think that's the number that they used. Yep, everyone
11:25
Speaker 1: is screaming.
11:26
Speaker 2: Eliza Sue flees the studio, but eventually explodes, leaving a
11:31
Speaker 2: face that inches along the pavement until it reaches Elizabeth
11:36
Speaker 2: Star on the Walk of Fame. She imagines being famous
11:40
Speaker 2: and hearing the cheers of the crowd as she melts
11:44
Speaker 2: into a puddle of blood that is cleaned up the
11:47
Speaker 2: next day.
11:50
Speaker 3: Yeah, in that opening scene, someone drops ketchup and burger
11:54
Speaker 3: and fries, so it's in the same pattern, So you
11:58
Speaker 3: know that that's how are they open? And I was
12:00
Speaker 3: that essentially, I'm traumatized, and that's all I have to.
12:06
Speaker 4: Say about this. I get it.
12:08
Speaker 3: It was very heavy handed, I get it. I still traumatized.
12:11
Speaker 3: I was like, damn because like the way they made
12:15
Speaker 3: sure to make the pretty sexy pictures versus the horrific
12:19
Speaker 3: end pictures, like they want you to know what they're doing,
12:22
Speaker 3: the director and the writer, And yes, point made, but damn,
12:27
Speaker 3: I'm traumatized.
12:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it.
12:34
Speaker 2: I love how bonkers it was. And every time I've
12:38
Speaker 2: shown it to somebody, they've been like, oh wow, I
12:42
Speaker 2: did not know it was gonna go this hard, and
12:45
Speaker 2: it really really.
12:48
Speaker 1: Went hard.
12:49
Speaker 3: Yeah, So like we're not being cute in the mirror,
12:52
Speaker 3: We're gonna be disgusting and grotesque, like like what you
12:55
Speaker 3: think of me?
12:56
Speaker 4: So here we go.
12:57
Speaker 2: Yes, and we're gonna talk about that too, because the
13:01
Speaker 2: director's got a lot of good quotes about that, including
13:03
Speaker 2: about how the ways some people are describing this movie
13:08
Speaker 2: versus other body horror movies that men have done and
13:11
Speaker 2: the differences in that, which I think is really interesting.
13:14
Speaker 2: And by the way, this director, we have talked about
13:16
Speaker 2: her before. She also directed Revenge, which we talked about
13:20
Speaker 2: in our rape revenge movies, and was inspired to write
13:23
Speaker 2: this movie after dealing with internalized negative feelings about her
13:27
Speaker 2: body aging and being forgotten as she grew older. The
13:31
Speaker 2: character of Elizabeth is also in part inspired by Jane Fonda, who,
13:35
Speaker 2: if you don't know, transitioned from being an actress to
13:38
Speaker 2: an aerobic show and it's really interesting to read. I
13:44
Speaker 2: believe her. The director and Demi Moore met six times
13:48
Speaker 2: to discuss this role, because Demi Moore was like, I
13:51
Speaker 2: don't know, I don't know, but they eventually were like,
13:55
Speaker 2: really came together and created this.
13:58
Speaker 1: Really working together. So I think that's great.
14:10
Speaker 2: Obviously, when we talk about themes, one of the big
14:13
Speaker 2: ones agism and sexism, how we treat women, and in
14:18
Speaker 2: this movie, particularly women in Hollywood disposable, expendable. Literally At
14:27
Speaker 2: one point when Elizabeth is getting fired, it's a really
14:31
Speaker 2: grossene or Dennis Craid's character, Harvey is eating all of
14:35
Speaker 2: this shrimp and he just says it just stops at
14:38
Speaker 2: fifty And Elizabeth asks what stops and he's like m
14:44
Speaker 2: and he doesn't have an answer, but he's firing her
14:47
Speaker 2: because she's fifty and they always want.
14:50
Speaker 1: This younger, better version.
14:53
Speaker 2: In quotes something to someone to be washed away and
14:58
Speaker 2: forgotten as you age, like your wiped away from your
15:01
Speaker 2: Hollywood star, no matter how much they've done our sacrifice,
15:05
Speaker 2: because she'd won awards, she'd been working for them forever,
15:09
Speaker 2: and how much pain they might have put their bodies
15:11
Speaker 2: through to meet these standards. And it's really upsetting because
15:17
Speaker 2: she had given so much of herself.
15:19
Speaker 1: It was her birthday.
15:21
Speaker 2: When they fired her, and they give her such a
15:24
Speaker 2: bland gift that says you were great.
15:29
Speaker 4: Right actually barely talk to her, hands up box like moth.
15:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's the happy French cookbook that we'll talk
15:37
Speaker 2: about later.
15:37
Speaker 3: I love the same way he says I love my wife,
15:40
Speaker 3: and he does such a random statement.
15:42
Speaker 4: I'll where did that come from?
15:44
Speaker 1: Okay, he was gross.
15:46
Speaker 2: And I read a really cool article before this talking
15:49
Speaker 2: about how this movie is kind of a really dark
15:51
Speaker 2: fairy tale because you have your quote chrone your young maid.
15:58
Speaker 1: But he would be the devil. He's got like this
16:00
Speaker 1: snackskin boots.
16:01
Speaker 2: He's got that like kind of really creepy smile in
16:05
Speaker 2: the way he's always consuming something.
16:08
Speaker 1: Yeah.
16:10
Speaker 3: Interestingly, the actor Dennis Quait himself like really went out
16:15
Speaker 3: to bat and spoke for the very thing that he represented,
16:19
Speaker 3: like he was campaigning for Donald Trump, and I find
16:22
Speaker 3: that ironic. I'm like, so you understand what this film is, right,
16:28
Speaker 3: you know, they're like implicating here what.
16:35
Speaker 2: And that role was originally going to be played by
16:39
Speaker 2: Rayleiota but he died.
16:41
Speaker 3: Uh yeah, I'm.
16:44
Speaker 4: Kind of glad I didn't see him in favorable.
16:46
Speaker 5: He would have been great, But I'm really glad that's
16:49
Speaker 5: not the last memories of him I love.
16:56
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's.
17:01
Speaker 1: Fair, that's fair. But then it's also.
17:04
Speaker 2: Very clear when we look at the difference between how
17:08
Speaker 2: people at the studio treat Elizabeth versus how they treat Sue,
17:12
Speaker 2: it is stark. They can't wait to get rid of Elizabeth.
17:18
Speaker 2: They're angry she's been here as long as she has.
17:22
Speaker 2: But Sue, they're like, oh, yes, you need seven days
17:24
Speaker 2: off every other week. We can do it. We will
17:27
Speaker 2: work around it. You're the best, You're so amazing. Have
17:31
Speaker 2: our New Year's Eve show, please. So it makes it
17:34
Speaker 2: very stark in that way, and I do think it's interesting.
17:37
Speaker 2: We'll talk about this more later too, But when Elizabeth's
17:42
Speaker 2: doing her workout show, she's saying things like you got
17:46
Speaker 2: to get that beach bud. You don't want to be
17:47
Speaker 2: a jellyfish on the beach, like all this stuff. So
17:51
Speaker 2: she's really internalized all of this as well. And then
17:55
Speaker 2: when Sue goes toed to the audition for the show
17:59
Speaker 2: right before she goes in someone else auditions, and the
18:02
Speaker 2: two men who are casting kind of snidely are like,
18:07
Speaker 2: too bad, her breast aron in the right place.
18:10
Speaker 3: They're implying that her nose, she would look better if
18:15
Speaker 3: her breast was on her face instead of her nose,
18:17
Speaker 3: criticizing her nose.
18:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, which comes back to the end for sure,
18:23
Speaker 2: for sure. And then there's kind of a constant refrain
18:28
Speaker 2: about pretty girls should always smile, which a lot of
18:33
Speaker 2: us have heard, but also towards the end becomes very
18:37
Speaker 2: grotesque because Sue is losing her teeth.
18:41
Speaker 1: And cannot give a full smile.
18:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, trum tust, it's gross.
18:51
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna deny it. I love it.
18:55
Speaker 2: Here's the quote from av Club, in a scene that
18:58
Speaker 2: merely hints at the revulsion to leering network executive Harvey
19:02
Speaker 2: Dennis Quaid has a mouthful of shrimp when he informs
19:04
Speaker 2: Elizabeth that she's being put out to pasture. The themes
19:07
Speaker 2: in the Substance are mostly expressed visually, and the casting
19:11
Speaker 2: of the film's male characters is a vicious comment in itself.
19:14
Speaker 2: The movie is populated by mediocre looking men passing judgment
19:17
Speaker 2: on women who are frankly way out of their league.
19:22
Speaker 1: Yep.
19:23
Speaker 3: Yeah, the neighbor was a stark reminder of like what
19:26
Speaker 3: he really thought he was owed. He'd be like, yes,
19:29
Speaker 3: I'm gonna take that silas as a yes, we'll see
19:31
Speaker 3: you tonight. Yes, yes, Yeah.
19:34
Speaker 4: He's not cute in any least way.
19:36
Speaker 2: No, And then with Elizabeth he was like, stop being annoying,
19:42
Speaker 2: But with Sue he's like, oh, you're never annoying. Please
19:45
Speaker 2: come up a drink with me.
19:46
Speaker 4: I'll help you reach you.
19:48
Speaker 2: I love your show. It's so good yep. And then
19:55
Speaker 2: there there's also just the constant remind of how Sue
20:02
Speaker 2: being young is better in terms of the billboards that
20:09
Speaker 2: you see, the ripping down of Elizabeth and quickly replacing
20:12
Speaker 2: it with Sue's.
20:15
Speaker 1: Mirrors. There's a lot of mirrors.
20:16
Speaker 2: This maybe actually doesn't have a lot of dialogue, and
20:18
Speaker 2: that was done purposely, but there's a lot of like
20:23
Speaker 2: looking into mirrors, and having when Elizabeth it's her turn,
20:27
Speaker 2: and always having Sue kind of watching over her through
20:30
Speaker 2: her like wide apartment windows, and not being able to
20:35
Speaker 2: forget that she was fired and Sue was hired, and
20:38
Speaker 2: Sue is the one that people appreciate, and a door
20:42
Speaker 2: now and it used to be her and in fact
20:45
Speaker 2: she breaks. She has a poster framed poster of her
20:50
Speaker 2: when she was younger, and she throws one of her
20:52
Speaker 2: awards at it and cracks the eye of it, so
20:58
Speaker 2: even her younger self hanging over her. And then how
21:04
Speaker 2: we view age and I think this is very over
21:07
Speaker 2: the top, done in a fun way with how the
21:13
Speaker 2: makeup effects of what happens to Demi more. They even
21:17
Speaker 2: have stages. There's one that's like Crone Gollum and then
21:22
Speaker 2: let's to Sue.
21:23
Speaker 1: That's what they called it.
21:25
Speaker 2: What I was watching, I was like, this is like
21:26
Speaker 2: a corpse, Like she looks like the way her finger
21:29
Speaker 2: in the beginning, it's like bone and decayed skin, which
21:34
Speaker 2: I learned a new term have exploitation, which is what
21:38
Speaker 2: it sounds like, but using older women as the villain
21:44
Speaker 2: or something really scary or something disgusting, And this movie
21:48
Speaker 2: really leaned into that really really leaned into it, and
21:56
Speaker 2: it's I really recommend reading how they did the special
22:00
Speaker 2: effects of it because it's fascinating.
22:02
Speaker 1: But it took a lot.
22:04
Speaker 2: It took a long time to apply, it took a
22:06
Speaker 2: lot to act in it, and me More was apparently
22:09
Speaker 2: really determined, like, we're going to get this right. Even
22:12
Speaker 2: if I have to deal with this, we don't want
22:14
Speaker 2: to disrespect the makeup, So if we have to take
22:16
Speaker 2: it off and do it again, we'll do it again.
22:18
Speaker 2: And then the casting of Diviny Moore was also very
22:23
Speaker 2: purposeful because she has kind of gone through this and
22:28
Speaker 2: she's had a lot of quote since then.
22:30
Speaker 1: I think she was very.
22:31
Speaker 2: Unsure and I get it that this movie would be
22:35
Speaker 2: exercise or not. But now that it is, she's had
22:38
Speaker 2: a lot of comments about what she thinks about it.
22:42
Speaker 2: But from av Club, here's another quote. The complexities of
22:45
Speaker 2: making a living based on one's looks and the emptiness
22:48
Speaker 2: that it's left when that life is no longer possible
22:51
Speaker 2: provides a rich text for More.
22:53
Speaker 1: Whose it girl.
22:54
Speaker 2: Days in the mid eighties also led to a long
22:56
Speaker 2: career as a famous movie star. But More is sixty
22:58
Speaker 2: two and is surely aware of her changing status within
23:01
Speaker 2: the industry. Going back to their other quote, though, I
23:04
Speaker 2: do think it's interesting that, I mean, she aged very well,
23:07
Speaker 2: but still she's being kicked out because she's fifty.
23:10
Speaker 4: Right.
23:11
Speaker 3: There's so much because agism has always played her, whether
23:16
Speaker 3: it's the character she plays with so indecent proposal. That
23:21
Speaker 3: was absolutely the beginning part of the beginning of her career,
23:25
Speaker 3: all those sexy movies ghosts, Like she was known as
23:28
Speaker 3: the it girl in the eighties and nineties and so
23:32
Speaker 3: her going into that and then getting older, but like
23:35
Speaker 3: every age they would feature her as like looking amazing
23:39
Speaker 3: at thirty, looking amazing at forty. They really did that,
23:42
Speaker 3: and then Ashton Kutcher came along after Bruce Willis. There's
23:46
Speaker 3: so much conversation about her aging and whether or not
23:50
Speaker 3: she's aging gracefully or what she's doing, and her stepping
23:54
Speaker 3: in and out of out like limelight, whether she was
23:56
Speaker 3: dating someone who was or marrying someone's significantly younger, playing
24:00
Speaker 3: these characters, not playing these characters, being a mother, you know,
24:03
Speaker 3: like these she kind of represents that conversation, like, to me,
24:08
Speaker 3: more is an icon in itself because of that, and
24:13
Speaker 3: now she's in this age and time where things are
24:16
Speaker 3: being fixed, whether it's ozimbic or whether it's plastic surgery,
24:19
Speaker 3: and so everybody's watching her because she's always been kind
24:23
Speaker 3: of that representation, oddly without being said that she's that representation.
24:29
Speaker 3: So this perfectly made sense. Like the only other person
24:33
Speaker 3: that may like even come close to this, I don't know, baby,
24:39
Speaker 3: I don't even think Nicole Kinman was that, But that
24:41
Speaker 3: was not something that was a part of her conversation either.
24:43
Speaker 3: Even though it is, it isn't like she was always
24:47
Speaker 3: in that forefront in that conversation.
24:50
Speaker 2: Oddly, Yeah, I hadn't thought about that part. But yeah,
24:53
Speaker 2: she definitely definitely has been and this was an episode
24:59
Speaker 2: where it could have been many many parts. But she
25:03
Speaker 2: does have a lot of good quotes if you want
25:05
Speaker 2: to look them up, where she was talking about how
25:09
Speaker 2: she feels now this movie has come out and resonated
25:11
Speaker 2: with people, and how it's made her think about some
25:14
Speaker 2: of the way she's been treated or thinks she's seen
25:17
Speaker 2: in her own life. Also, interestingly, I love this. Several
25:21
Speaker 2: women have written about how this movie made them feel
25:23
Speaker 2: better about aging.
25:24
Speaker 4: I mean, you definitely do hold on to a moment.
25:26
Speaker 3: I say this as I've made episodes of like I'm
25:28
Speaker 3: aging and I need help, like where I'm like, maybe
25:31
Speaker 3: it's not so bad, I shouldn't do things.
25:37
Speaker 6: Yeah, because in the end she wanted to go back
25:42
Speaker 6: to face, you know what I mean, Like it was
25:45
Speaker 6: that kind of conversation like I wasn't so bad that
25:47
Speaker 6: I shouldn't have done this because this wasn't worth it.
25:51
Speaker 4: But yeah, it kind of has that crash out of
25:53
Speaker 4: like maybe.
25:54
Speaker 3: It's not worth it because the price you have to pay,
25:57
Speaker 3: whether it's having to take out fillers or like melting
26:00
Speaker 3: fills out of your face because you realize it's actually
26:02
Speaker 3: not doing you well, or having breast implants, and not
26:05
Speaker 3: that there is anything wrong with these things, but like
26:07
Speaker 3: the repercussions sometimes the health like crisis that have to
26:13
Speaker 3: have happened with some people afterwards because there's not enough
26:16
Speaker 3: information or they got they went to the wrong place. Yeah,
26:19
Speaker 3: you know, that's definitely a conversation and I think that
26:21
Speaker 3: kind of comes back to her trying to put her
26:23
Speaker 3: old face back on.
26:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that to me, one of the
26:29
Speaker 2: saddest parts of the movie, if not the saddest part,
26:31
Speaker 2: is when she does agree to go on that get
26:34
Speaker 2: the drinks with the guy, yeah, who is perfectly nice,
26:38
Speaker 2: perfectly average, but perfectly nice. And she puts on makeups,
26:42
Speaker 2: she looks great, and then she keeps seeing her reflection
26:46
Speaker 2: or she sees Sue, and she just keeps taking off
26:49
Speaker 2: her lipstick and applying it and putting on more makeup
26:51
Speaker 2: and then taking it off and like just viciously scrubbing
26:54
Speaker 2: it off.
26:55
Speaker 1: And it's so sad.
26:55
Speaker 2: So you're like, just go, you look great, just you
26:59
Speaker 2: can do this, but she can't make it out the
27:01
Speaker 2: door and she never goes, and it's a very very
27:03
Speaker 2: sad part.
27:05
Speaker 1: And in the end.
27:08
Speaker 2: Sue kills Elizabeth, who at that point does almost pretty
27:15
Speaker 2: much personified death.
27:17
Speaker 1: So age comes for you all he does it. Sue's
27:22
Speaker 1: gonna get old too.
27:25
Speaker 2: But yeah, going back to what you were saying, another
27:28
Speaker 2: theme in this is the quote best self, which in
27:31
Speaker 2: this case is the younger, better version. This kind of perfectionism.
27:40
Speaker 2: I read I'm not sure if this is true, but
27:43
Speaker 2: I read that Margaret Quality wore prosthetics to make everything
27:48
Speaker 2: like more symmetrical and perfect.
27:51
Speaker 3: Well, I would assume this is without any research, that
27:55
Speaker 3: they had to make our look absolutely perfect, and we
27:58
Speaker 3: know that's not the case. So whether it's brush, whether
28:00
Speaker 3: it's edited, like they had to make her even though
28:04
Speaker 3: she's beautiful as is, there's something there's always cellul like,
28:09
Speaker 3: there's always a little birthmark, there's always these things. So
28:13
Speaker 3: I'm sure that she had to do extra. She had
28:15
Speaker 3: to do extra, whether it's taping up of things. Uh,
28:19
Speaker 3: obviously she had to get like first thing I thought.
28:21
Speaker 3: I was like, Oh, she definitely went and got.
28:23
Speaker 5: Wax like like everything everything, And we know people are hairy,
28:29
Speaker 5: come on, her mother was a hairy woman like Annie McDowell,
28:33
Speaker 5: who was also an another nineties icon, was was not.
28:37
Speaker 3: She's naturally dark hair, so that that just happens, you know,
28:42
Speaker 3: So for her not have any hair, I'm like, yeah,
28:44
Speaker 3: she definitely.
28:45
Speaker 2: Definitely had to Yes, yes, and that I mean that
28:50
Speaker 2: is the thing of we've talked before about, you know,
28:54
Speaker 2: constantly beingmbarded with those images of this is perfect, this
28:57
Speaker 2: is what I have to do, that's how I look.
29:00
Speaker 2: And if you don't fit that, how do you fix it?
29:04
Speaker 2: How what can they sell you to quote fix it?
29:07
Speaker 2: And this is when we come to the conversation of
29:11
Speaker 2: quick fixes. This is literally a black market drug that
29:15
Speaker 2: she has to go to a strange location to pick up.
29:18
Speaker 2: There's no one there. They never refer to her by
29:21
Speaker 2: her name, only her number. You have to drain your
29:25
Speaker 2: spinal fluid, you have to sew up your back, you
29:31
Speaker 2: have to be unconscious for a week like that. That's
29:36
Speaker 2: kind of the desperation she felt, especially as somebody who
29:39
Speaker 2: that was her career, and that was how she had
29:43
Speaker 2: so long to find herself and so long found meaning.
29:48
Speaker 2: That's how desperate she was. She was like, Okay, I'll
29:53
Speaker 2: try this. And by the way, the substance video she
29:57
Speaker 2: watched is very like tech. It's a dude narrating it.
30:03
Speaker 2: Every time she talks to him, he's like, I told
30:07
Speaker 2: you to respect the balance. Like it's very it has
30:10
Speaker 2: that vibe of like a tech bro. We can make
30:14
Speaker 2: money off of these women.
30:16
Speaker 1: However, there are men that do it. They run into.
30:20
Speaker 3: Yes, I'm wondering now that I think about it, is
30:23
Speaker 3: it the orderly dude?
30:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, you had the same scar.
30:27
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, yes, you run into his older version and
30:31
Speaker 2: he's like, has she started trading you yet? Has she
30:36
Speaker 2: started stealing the time. So even for him, the person
30:42
Speaker 2: who recommended it to her, he was like, oh no,
30:47
Speaker 2: I shouldn't You shouldn't have done this. I shouldn't have
30:49
Speaker 2: shouldn't have done this. Here is another quote from aby Club.
30:54
Speaker 2: These combined with an aesthetic of syringes and latex clubs
30:57
Speaker 2: best described as medsbas chic of okaing parioical cures like
31:00
Speaker 2: ozimbic and botox that encourage people, mostly women. Let's be
31:04
Speaker 2: real to pump themselves full of barely regulated substances whose
31:08
Speaker 2: side effects won't be clear for a few more decades
31:11
Speaker 2: so they can make themselves more palatable to patriarchal beauty standards.
31:15
Speaker 2: None of this will prevent the lumpy men who rule
31:18
Speaker 2: the world from throwing you away when you don't give
31:21
Speaker 2: them a boner anymore. As Elizabeth Sparkle rudely discovers early
31:25
Speaker 2: on in the film, Elizabeth is extremely famous, Billboard famous,
31:28
Speaker 2: Walk of Fame famous, and has been for decades. You'd
31:32
Speaker 2: think this would give her the slightest bit of leverage
31:34
Speaker 2: when it comes to renegotiating her contract as the host
31:37
Speaker 2: of the aerobics program that broadcast her tight body and
31:40
Speaker 2: sparkling smile into millions of American homes every week.
31:43
Speaker 1: You'd be wrong.
31:45
Speaker 2: And that's another thing. Is she doesn't. It's these men
31:48
Speaker 2: who decide she's done. She doesn't decide that. They're just
31:53
Speaker 2: decide it. And it's because of her age. And I
31:58
Speaker 2: do think you know the title the substance when you're
32:01
Speaker 2: talking about so we don't even know what it is
32:03
Speaker 2: and we don't know how it works. But she was
32:06
Speaker 2: willing to give it a try. I didn't want to
32:09
Speaker 2: put in here after things go terribly awry. The Eliza
32:15
Speaker 2: su prosthetic took six hours to apply. Quality said it
32:19
Speaker 2: made her very claustrophobic, but it's really cool. I just
32:23
Speaker 2: can't recommend enough to look up how they made it
32:25
Speaker 2: and how they did it and the blood and everything,
32:28
Speaker 2: oh my gosh. But Farjah said of that, the only
32:33
Speaker 2: gaze that matters is her own. It's the reconciliation between
32:37
Speaker 2: all of the parts, the moment she reveals what was
32:39
Speaker 2: inside her guts but we are told to hide, be
32:41
Speaker 2: ashamed of everything is out. The butt is on the head,
32:45
Speaker 2: and the boobs are everywhere, and all those parts have
32:47
Speaker 2: been benicized about are kind of exploded, and she is
32:50
Speaker 2: finally and she finally has some tenderness for herself. And
32:54
Speaker 2: that's true, and a lot of suits looking in the mirror,
32:57
Speaker 2: but she's putting on her ear rings, her dress and
33:01
Speaker 2: combing her hair. It's like the nicest she's looked at
33:04
Speaker 2: herself in the mirror. And I mean, of course it's
33:09
Speaker 2: really sad ultimately, but when she presents herself to her audience,
33:13
Speaker 2: she's like, it's me. I'm still the same person. I
33:15
Speaker 2: don't understand why you're reacting this way, as if I'm
33:17
Speaker 2: a monster.
33:19
Speaker 1: I hadn't.
33:19
Speaker 2: Really I'm glad I read that quote because I was
33:21
Speaker 2: just kind of like, oh, she's putting on earrings.
33:24
Speaker 6: Yeah.
33:25
Speaker 4: I was like, she's trying to be presentable. She's gelious.
33:27
Speaker 3: But it could also I do also wonder like it's
33:30
Speaker 3: partially in a conversation of like, no matter how much
33:33
Speaker 3: suffering you're going through, you still have to dress up
33:36
Speaker 3: and present yourself like women constantly would do so well.
33:39
Speaker 3: Women may like talking about women who have babies and
33:42
Speaker 3: are pregnant, they get themselves nice, They do their nails,
33:45
Speaker 3: they get their toes done, so when they're looking at it,
33:47
Speaker 3: it looks nice. Like these things that they do, whether
33:50
Speaker 3: it's for others or themselves, it is literally a thing
33:53
Speaker 3: like I have to be presentable, No matter the disastrous
33:57
Speaker 3: situation I'm in, or if I'm just eating up of
34:01
Speaker 3: every orphice and then non orphus things that shouldn't be bleeding.
34:08
Speaker 1: She did try to make herself resentable.
34:10
Speaker 2: She did, like even the mask she put the smile
34:13
Speaker 2: on with the lipstick, So.
34:16
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm not being an ode to the joker, to
34:18
Speaker 4: be honest.
34:20
Speaker 3: At that point though, she was literally crashing out here
34:23
Speaker 3: we go.
34:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I love how like nobody noticed it too.
34:32
Speaker 2: I think that's really telling that nobody noticed something was
34:34
Speaker 2: a miss until.
34:36
Speaker 4: That was the part that I'm like, he let her in?
34:39
Speaker 1: Yeah what uh huh? Like they put her on the
34:43
Speaker 1: on screen.
34:44
Speaker 3: There were so many well, there's so many things I
34:46
Speaker 3: had questions about because I'm like, this doesn't work this way.
34:49
Speaker 3: I know that's absurd, but my question on one of
34:53
Speaker 3: the parts was like wait uh. At one point she
34:57
Speaker 3: was you know the fluid that which is the food
34:59
Speaker 3: for yours for your part fluid this if you are
35:04
Speaker 3: where did she get that food?
35:05
Speaker 4: Because she was almost suffocating.
35:08
Speaker 1: You get it from the substance it came.
35:11
Speaker 4: Only has seven day supply.
35:12
Speaker 2: You can get refilled without doing the The problem is
35:16
Speaker 2: she ran out of stable stabilizer fluid. But it's like
35:18
Speaker 2: a subscription.
35:19
Speaker 4: She just kept getting it.
35:22
Speaker 3: Okay, Yeah, I was like, she's just suffocating, but she
35:25
Speaker 3: doesn't have food, like that's why she's a nosebleeding.
35:38
Speaker 2: Well, that does bring us to my next point, consumption.
35:42
Speaker 2: That's a big theme in this a lot of food
35:48
Speaker 2: and eating uh in this movie I've already talked about
35:53
Speaker 2: in a Quaid and the shrimp, very gross, very visceral.
35:57
Speaker 2: You can hear him eating m uh him with the
36:00
Speaker 2: cigarette like it zooms in. You can hear it very
36:03
Speaker 2: viscerally as well. This is also how we see some
36:07
Speaker 2: female rage because I'm both extremes of eating and not eating.
36:12
Speaker 2: Because previously Elizabeth had been pretty shut off from being fired,
36:18
Speaker 2: like any anger about it or anything visibly. But when
36:23
Speaker 2: she starts to see Sue is taking her time or
36:30
Speaker 2: again they are one, but to her it feels like
36:33
Speaker 2: Sue is taking her time. That's when she's watching the
36:37
Speaker 2: She's watching Sue being interviewed and making fun of her
36:40
Speaker 2: and being like, oh that she's out of my generation.
36:42
Speaker 2: She's more like my mom's age or whatever, my moms generation.
36:47
Speaker 2: And that's when Elizabeth gets out the French cookbook and
36:51
Speaker 2: starts to make everything in there, a lot of meats
36:55
Speaker 2: like blood sausage, and it's very rage filled, it's very bitter.
37:01
Speaker 2: And she does do it to get back at Sue,
37:05
Speaker 2: because when Sue comes to it's just a mess. It's
37:11
Speaker 2: an absolute mess. Food everywhere, dishes everywhere, it's really nasty.
37:16
Speaker 2: But she kind of starts, she stops giving a She
37:19
Speaker 2: also like starts yelling at the guy across the hall,
37:23
Speaker 2: like slams the door open. She's just not not into
37:27
Speaker 2: it anymore. A lot of people were relating to that
37:30
Speaker 2: to get related to the pandemic, like this, what's resonating
37:34
Speaker 2: with me? But also when we talk about consumption, I
37:38
Speaker 2: would say we've discussed this before, but a lot of.
37:42
Speaker 1: The way.
37:44
Speaker 2: Camera shots have typically been used to film women, it's
37:47
Speaker 2: very like objectifying of body parts, very pornographic, and so
37:54
Speaker 2: it's like you're consuming just this part, are just this part,
38:02
Speaker 2: And the director has talked about that and and that
38:07
Speaker 2: kind of goes back to why she wanted to make
38:11
Speaker 2: the objectified parts explode or become gross because.
38:17
Speaker 1: She gives birth to a boob from her forehead.
38:21
Speaker 2: So that was a very interesting interview.
38:26
Speaker 1: She's done about this movie.
38:28
Speaker 2: But also self loathing is a big theme because they
38:37
Speaker 2: both they're the same person. It says again, all all
38:41
Speaker 2: throughout the movie, respect the balance, you are one. But
38:44
Speaker 2: they hate each other. And we've discussed before the self
38:48
Speaker 2: comparison trap of always comparing yourself to your younger self
38:53
Speaker 2: or even like future worries about your older self. To
38:58
Speaker 2: literally dry heaves at the loot of switching back and
39:02
Speaker 2: calls her Elizabeth, her sick mother.
39:04
Speaker 1: They do.
39:07
Speaker 2: More than once try to kill each other, but in
39:11
Speaker 2: the end it's Elizabeth. Elizabeth can't do it, but Sue can,
39:16
Speaker 2: and Sue does. Sue kills her, but Elizabeth can't give
39:20
Speaker 2: up Sue because she loves her too much, or she
39:23
Speaker 2: loves the idea of being young and worshiped and having
39:25
Speaker 2: an audience love her too much and it's too powerful
39:31
Speaker 2: for her to let go. And she does say things
39:35
Speaker 2: like when she's Eliza, Sue like.
39:39
Speaker 1: Why you love me?
39:40
Speaker 2: Is me?
39:41
Speaker 1: Is still me?
39:42
Speaker 2: Like she just wants that love, that adoration, and is
39:47
Speaker 2: willing to make all these sacrifices and go through all
39:52
Speaker 2: this pain for those who are watching, who would throw
39:56
Speaker 2: her away in a second to succeed. I also think
40:01
Speaker 2: there's a theme of addiction in here, being kind of
40:05
Speaker 2: addicted to that feeling.
40:10
Speaker 1: And maybe even to the idea of eventually like being
40:15
Speaker 1: younger when you could. And then there are a lot
40:22
Speaker 1: of this.
40:22
Speaker 2: As I said, there's not a lot a dialogue in
40:24
Speaker 2: this movie, So a lot of this is how you're
40:29
Speaker 2: seeing yourself when people are seeing you, and it's reflected through.
40:32
Speaker 1: Mirrors or images. The never ending hallway.
40:37
Speaker 2: At the company, the studio that feels very much like
40:41
Speaker 2: the shining Alissa wilcomes In of The New York Times
40:44
Speaker 2: wrote in the end, that's what the substance does best,
40:48
Speaker 2: not just remind us about the observed standards for female
40:51
Speaker 2: beauty and the destructive power of celebrity, but turn the
40:54
Speaker 2: mirror back on us. The sharpest critique isn't about bodies,
40:57
Speaker 2: but about the way we've trained ourselves to look at
40:59
Speaker 2: those and the effect that has on her own. The
41:03
Speaker 2: movie is, appropriately enough a mirror, and our discomfort reveals
41:07
Speaker 2: our own hidden biases and fears about ourselves, being older,
41:11
Speaker 2: being famous, being seen, being loved, being usurped by someone
41:14
Speaker 2: younger and hotter. It's all here, nothing like a mirror
41:18
Speaker 2: to remind you what lurks beneath a career spent in
41:22
Speaker 2: front of cameras, first as a celebrated actress and then
41:25
Speaker 2: as a celebrity fitness instructor on a show called Sparkle.
41:27
Speaker 2: Your life with Elizabeth abruptly ends when an executive decides
41:31
Speaker 2: she's too old to be worthy of being seen. He
41:33
Speaker 2: gets to decide if anyone wants to look at her,
41:35
Speaker 2: and if he turns the cameras away, does she even exist?
41:42
Speaker 2: So a lot a lot to be said about this movie.
41:46
Speaker 2: These are just a few of my thoughts. But before
41:48
Speaker 2: we close out this episode, I did want to touch
41:51
Speaker 2: on some irl news stories because it has generated a
41:56
Speaker 2: lot of conversation and a lot of headlines.
41:59
Speaker 1: One is I'm only going.
42:00
Speaker 2: To touch on this very briefly because I thought it
42:01
Speaker 2: was funny. But Kim Kardashian criticized this movie.
42:06
Speaker 1: Oh really very very.
42:08
Speaker 2: Funny because people are like interesting, And one of my
42:12
Speaker 2: favorite comebacks was, it's like Ai criticizing Terminator.
42:17
Speaker 4: I think she learned to appreciate this movie soon, though.
42:20
Speaker 2: I feel bad, like I it was just funny because
42:23
Speaker 2: it seems so out of touch, Like I'm not saying
42:27
Speaker 2: they're not standards I'm not saying anything like that.
42:29
Speaker 1: It was just so out of touch.
42:31
Speaker 3: I wonder though, what she baited, maybe because like, why
42:35
Speaker 3: would Kim Kardi. I've not heard her talk about movies ever,
42:39
Speaker 3: so this is interesting that that's a that's even a thing.
42:42
Speaker 3: So what did they go after her? Being like, you're
42:45
Speaker 3: the representation, You're who they're talking about. So she's all
42:47
Speaker 3: in micro gonna be like what No, Like, I can't
42:50
Speaker 3: imagine she even watched this movie.
42:53
Speaker 2: I feel like she had her review and most of
42:55
Speaker 2: the things I read were I don't know where it
42:59
Speaker 2: came from, but most of the things I read didn't
43:01
Speaker 2: feel like she had been baited by them.
43:03
Speaker 1: They were just kind of like, oh.
43:07
Speaker 4: Yeah, interesting.
43:08
Speaker 1: Interesting.
43:09
Speaker 3: I saw a headline recently about a couple of months ago,
43:12
Speaker 3: and I wanted to talk about it about how they
43:14
Speaker 3: felt like getting older meant they were disappearing, like they
43:18
Speaker 3: were no longer seen and what that meant the freedom
43:21
Speaker 3: and the costs.
43:22
Speaker 4: And I saw that I think I think it was
43:24
Speaker 4: before the movie.
43:26
Speaker 3: So people are talking about how aging has seen that,
43:29
Speaker 3: and I was like, huh, because again, part of my
43:32
Speaker 3: conversation is like, I obviously we're all growing older, but
43:35
Speaker 3: we were getting to a specific age where I'm like,
43:36
Speaker 3: I'm technically at midlife, So what does that look like?
43:40
Speaker 3: And have I disappeared and what does disappearing mean?
43:44
Speaker 1: Yeah?
43:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I said, a lot of people wrote, especially
43:51
Speaker 2: around the pandemic, and we've talked about this a lot,
43:53
Speaker 2: how our bodies changed during the pandemic in ways that
43:57
Speaker 2: we might not like given standards that we are surrounded
44:02
Speaker 2: by in society. And people were saying, you know, I
44:07
Speaker 2: found this. I really related to this, whether they are saying, oh,
44:10
Speaker 2: it made me feel better about aging, and some people
44:12
Speaker 2: were just like, it was nice to.
44:13
Speaker 1: See something about it.
44:16
Speaker 2: So yeah, I think that is a conversation that's really
44:18
Speaker 2: happening right now. We should come back and talk about that.
44:24
Speaker 2: Another thing that happened I got a lot of headlines
44:28
Speaker 2: was parjap pulled this film from Poland's Camera Image Film
44:33
Speaker 2: Festival after quote highly misogynistic comments from the festival's founder, Merricks.
44:39
Speaker 2: Fuadovitz published He pubished an essay titled Time for Solidarity
44:45
Speaker 2: in Cinematography World, and this essay was his response to
44:48
Speaker 2: a petition issued by the organization Women in Cinematography in
44:52
Speaker 2: which they were calling for the event to do more
44:54
Speaker 2: around supporting women in the industry, and the founder's response
44:59
Speaker 2: was not great because he said, quote, it raises a question,
45:03
Speaker 2: can the pursuit of change exclude what is good? Can
45:06
Speaker 2: we sacrifice works and artists with outstanding artistic achievements solely
45:10
Speaker 2: to make room for mediocre film production. So he's basically
45:16
Speaker 2: saying women cinematographers are mediocre, they shouldn't make room for them.
45:23
Speaker 2: So she pulled the film and it was a whole thing.
45:26
Speaker 2: The backlash was pretty intense and immediate, and the founder
45:29
Speaker 2: claims he was misinterpreted. He said he'd been working with
45:35
Speaker 2: that organization WIC and posted a diversity and inclusion proposal,
45:39
Speaker 2: though WIC claimed they wrote it and he only posted
45:43
Speaker 2: it after everyone got mad at him, which sounds about
45:47
Speaker 2: right too me.
45:47
Speaker 4: Right, but I, oh no, just kidding, I just claimed it.
45:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, but this movie has gotten a lot of awards buzz,
45:57
Speaker 2: so we'll see what happens. I did want to end
46:01
Speaker 2: with this quote from Farjah. I needed the substance to
46:05
Speaker 2: be bloody, to be excessive, to have a real strong
46:07
Speaker 2: message that it's time for a change, for a real change,
46:10
Speaker 2: and the change cannot be delicate, it cannot be gentle.
46:13
Speaker 2: It cannot be small. It needs to be massive, It
46:16
Speaker 2: needs to be everywhere, and it needs.
46:17
Speaker 1: To be now.
46:19
Speaker 2: So she really but when we're saying she didn't pull
46:23
Speaker 2: hold back, she did not hold back. So yeah, I
46:30
Speaker 2: highly recommend it. It is very gross, but traumatized.
46:35
Speaker 4: I'm to leave it at that.
46:37
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean when we say it's body are it's
46:41
Speaker 2: mm hmm traumatized. Well, thanks for going on this journey
46:47
Speaker 2: with me, Samantha, and thanks to everybody who recommended it. Uh.
46:51
Speaker 2: If you have any recommendations, we would love to hear from.
46:55
Speaker 2: You can emails at Stephanie Momsteph at i Heeartneeda dot com.
46:58
Speaker 2: You can find us on Twitter and Blues Guy at
47:00
Speaker 2: mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram and TikTok as stuff
47:03
Speaker 2: I've Never Told You for us on YouTube. We have
47:05
Speaker 2: a tea public store, and we have a book you
47:06
Speaker 2: can get wherever you get your books.
47:08
Speaker 1: Thanks.
47:08
Speaker 2: It's always to our super producer Christina, executive producer My and.
47:11
Speaker 1: Your contrutter Joey. Thank you and thanks to you for
47:13
Speaker 1: listening Stuff Never Told You Direction by Heart Radio.
47:15
Speaker 2: For more podcast from my Heart Radio, you can check
47:17
Speaker 2: out the heart Radio app Apple podcast or wherever you
47:19
Speaker 2: listen to your favorite shows.