Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / FBI: CHARLIE KIRK CONSPIRACY THEORIES LEGIT? SUSPECT’S 'MALE LOVER' EYED

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FBI: CHARLIE KIRK CONSPIRACY THEORIES LEGIT? SUSPECT’S 'MALE LOVER' EYED · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
0:07
Speaker 2: The FBI says the Charlie current conspiracy theories are legit.
0:13
Speaker 2: That's the first time we've ever heard that from the government.
0:18
Speaker 1: Think about it, jfk UFOs. It goes on and on
0:23
Speaker 1: and on.
0:23
Speaker 2: But tonight, Cash Purtel says he is actually investigating the many,
0:28
Speaker 2: many conspiracy theories surrounding the murder of Charlie Kirk. This
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Speaker 2: as the suspect's male lover is ied I Nancy Grace,
0:39
Speaker 2: this is Crime Stories.
0:40
Speaker 1: I want to thank you for being with us. Listen.
0:43
Speaker 3: Two weeks ago, our countries robbed of one of the
0:46
Speaker 3: brightest lights of our times.
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Speaker 1: My husband Shpriley.
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Speaker 4: He wanted to deceive young men, just like the one who.
1:01
Speaker 2: Took his life, Kirk's wife Erica, wowing the crowd and
1:08
Speaker 2: sending a message like no other. This as Cash Patel,
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Speaker 2: the director of the FBI, is literally chasing down conspiracy theories.
1:20
Speaker 1: Listen.
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Speaker 5: FBI Director Patel now investigating conspiracy theories about Charlie Kirk's murder.
1:26
Speaker 5: Patel was able to dismiss the theory a Pilo was
1:29
Speaker 5: involved because they turned off their transponder moments after the shooting,
1:33
Speaker 5: but says others could be credible. They include theories about accomplices,
1:37
Speaker 5: authenticity of the text, conversation between Robinson and his roommate,
1:41
Speaker 5: the bully's trajectory, and even why Kirk, who normally wears black,
1:46
Speaker 5: was clad in white that day.
1:48
Speaker 2: You know, I've never heard the government even acknowledge conspiracy theories,
1:54
Speaker 2: much less state that they will be investigated with me
2:00
Speaker 2: an all star panel to make sense of what we
2:02
Speaker 2: are learning tonight in the Charlie Kirk shooting straight out
2:05
Speaker 2: to Victoria Churchill joining us from Washington, US political reporter
2:10
Speaker 2: Dailymail dot com.
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Speaker 1: Victoria, what is Patel saying? I think Director.
2:15
Speaker 6: Patel is saying that he wants to explore everything and
2:19
Speaker 6: anything connected to this. But this should come as no
2:21
Speaker 6: surprise because Patel considered Kirk a close friend, a ally
2:26
Speaker 6: in the MAGA movement and the greater Conservative movement. But
2:30
Speaker 6: I also do want to point out that Director Patel
2:33
Speaker 6: and the FBI as a whole maybe have not necessarily
2:36
Speaker 6: been at the forefront of this investigation despite what they
2:39
Speaker 6: have said, because of course, Robinson was turned in by
2:44
Speaker 6: his own father.
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Speaker 1: That was I believe it's.
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Speaker 2: A little lady whoa They had the suspect in custody
2:51
Speaker 2: within thirty three hours. Take a look at your crime stats.
2:54
Speaker 2: That rarely happens. So you know a lot was made
2:58
Speaker 2: Victoria Churchill the arrest of two individuals, one claiming I
3:03
Speaker 2: did it. Of course they arrested him. He was cleared
3:07
Speaker 2: than another. So explain to me you're reasoning.
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Speaker 6: So the first individual is somebody who I have heard
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Speaker 6: from people that have actually been active in Utah politics,
3:17
Speaker 6: conservative politics in particular in Utah, that this is somebody
3:21
Speaker 6: that is a known agitator. And so I think there
3:24
Speaker 6: was no surprise that he was there. But he also
3:28
Speaker 6: went in for questioning. But again, this is somebody that
3:31
Speaker 6: didn't like conservatives, so maybe he wanted to claim for
3:34
Speaker 6: some crazy reason, I don't know why he would want
3:36
Speaker 6: to do this, but he possibly wanted to claim responsibility
3:39
Speaker 6: for this. But again, Robinson was turned in by his
3:42
Speaker 6: own father, So at least at this point, we don't
3:45
Speaker 6: know how close the FBI would have been to finding
3:48
Speaker 6: him if he was not submitted by his own father
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Speaker 6: to the authorities.
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Speaker 1: Guys, conspiracy theories.
3:54
Speaker 2: As they are being called, are now being taken as
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Speaker 2: legitimate avenues of investis.
4:00
Speaker 1: Starting with a lot of hand signals.
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Speaker 7: Listen, eagle eyed internet sleuth zero in on the behavior
4:07
Speaker 7: of Kirk's attendance. Just before he was shot, A man
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Speaker 7: standing six feet from Kirk in a white shirt and
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Speaker 7: white baseball cap is seen recording the debate on his phone.
4:17
Speaker 7: Seconds before the shot, that man tips his cap then
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Speaker 7: wipes his nose. A second man in a black shirt
4:23
Speaker 7: glances at the man as he adjusts his white cap,
4:26
Speaker 7: then touches his right arm before folding his arms. Many
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Speaker 7: theorized the hand signals or indications to the shooter.
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Speaker 2: Okay, that was investigated, and this is what we found.
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Speaker 8: Listen, the man in the white hat was giving signals
4:44
Speaker 8: to the shooter.
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Speaker 6: Yeah.
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Speaker 8: The man in the white hat was me. Okay, I
4:48
Speaker 8: did this with my hat. Maybe I touched my nose
4:51
Speaker 8: or something while I'm holding my phone because I'm facetiming.
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Speaker 8: My son and daughter in law, Charlie Kirk was literally
4:57
Speaker 8: like a son to me. I have three sons. He
5:00
Speaker 8: was like my fourth son. My three sons are a
5:03
Speaker 8: little bit older than Charlie. He was like my fourth son.
5:07
Speaker 8: So when he was hit, if your son got hit,
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Speaker 8: what would you do?
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Speaker 1: What would you do?
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Speaker 8: Charlie wasn't there. His eyes were fixed. He wasn't looking
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Speaker 8: at me. He was looking past me, right into eternity.
5:26
Speaker 8: He was with Jesus already.
5:30
Speaker 2: That is where our friends over at Cross examined the
5:33
Speaker 2: podcast is speaking.
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Speaker 1: Is Frank Terrek. Let's see that video again.
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Speaker 2: He is the guy wearing the hat who is making
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Speaker 2: hand signals just before Kirk is murdered, just.
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Speaker 1: Before and you see the other guy.
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Speaker 2: In the blue navy or black T shirt.
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Speaker 9: You know he's making movements as well, so you know,
6:01
Speaker 9: straight out to Franz of Borghart joining us, founder of
6:05
Speaker 9: Borgart Law firm, former prosecutor, professor Louisiana State University.
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Speaker 2: Franz, thank you for being with us. You know what,
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Speaker 2: So one theory shot down pretty quickly, and that vote's
6:17
Speaker 2: ill for the others, but they've got to be investigated.
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Speaker 2: Have you ever had a crazy theory pop up in
6:25
Speaker 2: the middle of a trial or during trial prep? PRIs
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Speaker 2: It's like a false confession. You have to chase it down.
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Speaker 10: So as a defense attorney, I love crazy theories, Nancy,
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Speaker 10: because it creates chaos and it gives me something to
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Speaker 10: work with, especially in cases where it's open and shut
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Speaker 10: like this.
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Speaker 11: One.
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Speaker 10: We know who shot Kurt, we know who. We got
6:46
Speaker 10: the right guy right, and we can claim that these
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Speaker 10: individuals behind him are making hand gestures doing the macarena whatever.
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Speaker 10: But conspiracy doesn't change the facts. And yeah, you're absolutely right.
6:59
Speaker 10: They have to vet it, the have to investigate it.
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Speaker 10: I just don't like the head of the FBI making
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Speaker 10: tweets about it because again, it's giving fuel.
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Speaker 11: Put him up to the absturd.
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Speaker 1: Okay, right, let me understand this.
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Speaker 2: Franz Bordhard doesn't like the director of the FBI's tweets. Oh, okay,
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Speaker 2: you in about half the nation do you think he
7:22
Speaker 2: cares that Franz Boorguards or anybody doesn't like his tweets?
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Speaker 1: What's wrong with his tweets? He's just putting it out there.
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Speaker 2: We're used to sub much secrecy within the government, So
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Speaker 2: what's your problem.
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Speaker 10: You can tweet all he wants. The problem is does
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Speaker 10: he have an active knowledge of the investigation? And if
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Speaker 10: he doesn't, his tweets create defenses. So, as someone in
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Speaker 10: the criminal justice system, I only want people making informational
7:46
Speaker 10: exchanges that have active fingers on the pulse of the investigation.
7:50
Speaker 10: And heaven forbid, he's just making a tweet about conspiracies
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Speaker 10: and he doesn't really happen. And look, the head of
7:56
Speaker 10: agencies don't always have their fingers on the pulse.
8:00
Speaker 1: Franz. We don't know what he knows or doesn't know. Okay,
8:05
Speaker 1: he may know.
8:06
Speaker 2: I'm I'm willing to guess he knows more about the
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Speaker 2: Kirk investigation than we do. However, Cardinal rule number one
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Speaker 2: from the elected district attorney who I worked for, who
8:18
Speaker 2: was I believe the greatest elected district attorney in the country,
8:21
Speaker 2: served thirty seven years, the longest at that time. Don't
8:27
Speaker 2: speak to the press. It's not that the press or
8:31
Speaker 2: a multi headed hydra.
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Speaker 1: It's that you commit yourself to a theory.
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Speaker 2: You put it out there and that could change you
8:39
Speaker 2: only hurt your case.
8:41
Speaker 1: So from me and you to Betel, shut your.
8:44
Speaker 2: Pie hole right now. These leads may in fact be legitimate.
8:49
Speaker 2: We don't know that yet. But this hand signal thing,
8:51
Speaker 2: that was all bs technical legal term. Okay, let's move
8:55
Speaker 2: on to the next one. And it has to do
8:57
Speaker 2: with a trajectory.
9:00
Speaker 1: Listen.
9:01
Speaker 5: Online saluts are also hung up on the bullet's trajectory,
9:04
Speaker 5: since clear video of the shooting is still widely available online.
9:08
Speaker 5: Many believe Kirk was wearing a bulletproof vest and the
9:11
Speaker 5: bullet fractured against the vest, sending a fragment into his neck.
9:14
Speaker 5: Others believed the shot ricocheted off the turning point banner
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Speaker 5: behind him, and what was caught on camera was the
9:19
Speaker 5: bullet exiting from the front of his neck. In an
9:22
Speaker 5: emotional tribute at his memorial, Erica Kirk said doctors told
9:26
Speaker 5: her if Charlie had been shot in an operating room,
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Speaker 5: it wouldn't have made a difference, claiming Kirk was gone instantaneously.
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Speaker 2: You know, I used to tell myself the same type
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Speaker 2: of thing after my fiance was murdered.
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Speaker 1: He didn't feel it, he didn't know what happened.
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Speaker 2: If he had been shot in the hospital, it wouldn't
9:42
Speaker 2: have made a difference. I don't know that any of
9:45
Speaker 2: that's true. Now, can we talk about this Kirk wearing
9:49
Speaker 2: a bullet proof vest there there's no evidence of that
9:53
Speaker 2: at all.
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Speaker 1: But regarding the exit wound.
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Speaker 2: We stated at the get go to just got more
10:00
Speaker 2: joining as Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood
10:04
Speaker 2: Beneath My Feet on Amazon, star of a hit podcast
10:08
Speaker 2: series body bags with Joe Scott Morgan for my purposes,
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Speaker 2: a death investigator with over one thousand death scenes under
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Speaker 2: his belt, all sorts, accidental, natural causes, a determined suicide,
10:24
Speaker 2: and of course homicide Joe Scott Day one, we knew
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Speaker 2: or had surmised, there was no exit wound.
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Speaker 1: There's no conspiracy to that.
10:35
Speaker 12: No, there's not. And if that is the idea here,
10:40
Speaker 12: just follow my logic. You're going to have to get
10:44
Speaker 12: the surgeon who attended him at the emergency room at
10:48
Speaker 12: the hospital where he was evacuated to. And you're also
10:51
Speaker 12: going to have to get the State and Medical Examiner's office,
10:55
Speaker 12: the forensic pathologist that was involved in this case to
10:59
Speaker 12: get on board. Also relative to all of this, what
11:02
Speaker 12: we're hearing right now is that this is a single
11:05
Speaker 12: gunshot wound to the neck and that the round was
11:09
Speaker 12: actually found beneath the skin. I don't know why this
11:13
Speaker 12: is such a mystery. I don't know why people say
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Speaker 12: that this is an empirical impossibility, Nancy. I've handled a
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Speaker 12: lot of gunshot wounds involving high velocity rounds where the
11:23
Speaker 12: bullet does not completely exit the body. It just doesn't
11:27
Speaker 12: happen every single time, So everybody out there on impact.
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Speaker 2: I would say the majority of homicide cases I have
11:37
Speaker 2: investigated or prosecuted have at least one bullet still in
11:42
Speaker 2: the body. So I don't understand the uproar about the
11:45
Speaker 2: fact that his bullet.
11:46
Speaker 1: Lodged in his neck. First of all, how could it
11:50
Speaker 1: have lodged in the neck. For me, it's.
11:54
Speaker 2: Sop standard operating procedure that at least one bullet stays
11:58
Speaker 2: in the body. And I'm glad, I mean, if you
12:00
Speaker 2: can make a silver lining out of.
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Speaker 1: A murder, I'm.
12:03
Speaker 2: Glad the bullet was retrieved from the body because the
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Speaker 2: next thing we would know, with the conspiracy theory that that's.
12:10
Speaker 1: Not the real bullet you found on the ground. That's
12:13
Speaker 1: not it. Yeah, in place.
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Speaker 12: I mean, even if it's fragmented, if you have the
12:18
Speaker 12: base of the round, you can take that base of
12:20
Speaker 12: the round and do the testing based upon the rifle
12:24
Speaker 12: that they did in fact recover and look, if it
12:27
Speaker 12: doesn't match up, fine and good, go look for another
12:30
Speaker 12: rifle out there. But if the rifling on this round
12:33
Speaker 12: that was recovered at autopsy, which would have been at
12:36
Speaker 12: the Utah State Medical Examiner's office, which let me Reinforce
12:40
Speaker 12: again is a fine organization and are now being accused
12:44
Speaker 12: by people online as being part of a grander conspiracy.
12:48
Speaker 12: If that round was recovered at autopsy, it'll be compared ballistically.
12:52
Speaker 12: It'll be compared either at the State Crime Lab in
12:55
Speaker 12: Utah or it'll be compared at Quantico with the FBI's
12:59
Speaker 12: resource is that they have there. We still don't even
13:02
Speaker 12: have an autopsy report yet. Let me tell you another
13:04
Speaker 12: bit of reporting that'll come out also. There will be
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Speaker 12: surgical notes, so if people have questions about this, this
13:11
Speaker 12: random surgeon that was on duty, he will write up
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Speaker 12: a report based upon what he saw in his examination
13:19
Speaker 12: of Charlie Kirk at that moment, immediately after this had happened.
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Speaker 12: He will talk about this in great detail. Those records
13:27
Speaker 12: will be with a state medical examiner. They would have
13:29
Speaker 12: reviewed them. They will give their own opinion about this.
13:33
Speaker 12: And I can tell you there was more than one
13:35
Speaker 12: forensic pathologist in that room while his examination would have
13:39
Speaker 12: been done, there would have been multiple eyes on this.
13:42
Speaker 2: Case joining us shortly. Ballistics expert to show us and
13:48
Speaker 2: explain to us all about the weapon, the mauser that
13:52
Speaker 2: was used to kill Charlie Kirk. And the bizarre engravings
13:56
Speaker 2: on the bullet and exactly how this shot could have
14:00
Speaker 2: gone down without a conspiracy a group of people helping
14:06
Speaker 2: the shooter.
14:07
Speaker 1: Is it rational? Don't know.
14:09
Speaker 2: We'll hear from coh loremore in just one moment. But
14:11
Speaker 2: versus doctor Bethany Marshall, renown Psychoana I was joining side
14:14
Speaker 2: of the Beverly Hills jurisdiction, author of deal Breaker. You
14:17
Speaker 2: can see her now on Peacock and you can find
14:20
Speaker 2: her at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Doctor Bethany, here's
14:24
Speaker 2: the deal. Yes, some of these firite theories are falling through.
14:29
Speaker 2: I'm curious why to people? Why can't they just accept
14:32
Speaker 2: the truth? Why does there have to be a conspiracy?
14:35
Speaker 2: You know, when Joe Scott and I went to the
14:38
Speaker 2: scene in Texas where JFK was shot and I examined
14:42
Speaker 2: it for myself and I reviewed the video, I had
14:45
Speaker 2: always thought that's just a bunch of hogwash conspiracy. But
14:48
Speaker 2: when I saw JFK's head go forward from a shot
14:51
Speaker 2: and then backwards from another shot, I will tell you it'
14:54
Speaker 2: stopped me in my tracks.
14:56
Speaker 1: Also, can we think about Gabby Patito.
14:59
Speaker 2: For one moment, if it had not been for an
15:02
Speaker 2: online sleuth Red Blue and with Shane I believe was
15:06
Speaker 2: their name, who had been following Gabby's disappearance online and
15:09
Speaker 2: they saw her white four transit part in dispersed camping,
15:13
Speaker 2: which is in the middle of nowhere, not a porty potty,
15:16
Speaker 2: not a water hookup, no lights, nothing out.
15:20
Speaker 1: There with the coyotes and the critters.
15:22
Speaker 2: They saw that by happenstance, and they solved the case,
15:28
Speaker 2: the mysteries to where her remains were. So before we
15:31
Speaker 2: pooh pooh conspiracy theorists, let's keep.
15:34
Speaker 1: That in mind.
15:35
Speaker 2: But my question to you, Dr Bethany is why can't
15:39
Speaker 2: people For instance, Joscott was saying, except the bullet did
15:43
Speaker 2: not exit his neck, bam. What's with the conspiracy theories?
15:50
Speaker 13: And one of those conspiracies about why the bullet did
15:53
Speaker 13: not exit his neck is that he was out there
15:56
Speaker 13: to save people, and even in death, he saved people
16:00
Speaker 13: by blocking the bullet from the people behind him. So
16:03
Speaker 13: we could go on and on. You do, Nancy, conspiracy theorists.
16:06
Speaker 1: I don't conspiracy theory.
16:08
Speaker 2: That's more of an observation, okay, by the but not
16:13
Speaker 2: exiting his neck, it potentially may have saved a bystander
16:17
Speaker 2: from getting shot.
16:18
Speaker 1: That's just what used to be. I think it was
16:20
Speaker 1: that he hadn't talking.
16:21
Speaker 2: About zany theories, Like zany a plane was supposed to
16:27
Speaker 2: take off with the killer. There's a whole group of
16:31
Speaker 2: theory of supporters helping the shooter. I mean, the theories
16:36
Speaker 2: are really spinning out, and Patel has to track down everyone.
16:40
Speaker 2: So explain to me the mindset of a conspiracy theorist.
16:44
Speaker 2: Next you're gonna be telling me that's not his body
16:46
Speaker 2: in the coffin a conspiracy.
16:48
Speaker 13: A conspiracy theorist believes that if there's a big event,
16:53
Speaker 13: there's a big cause. They can't believe just that some
16:56
Speaker 13: crazy guy was on the top of a roof and
16:58
Speaker 13: shot this guy because he was full of hatred. They
17:01
Speaker 13: also turn correlation into causation, like if two things seem
17:06
Speaker 13: remotely similar, there's definitely definitely a causation between the two.
17:12
Speaker 13: They take random events and they try to form a
17:16
Speaker 13: pattern out of them, even if there's no pattern at all.
17:20
Speaker 13: The only pattern I see here, Nancy, is somebody who
17:24
Speaker 13: was very hateful, who wanted to take Charlie Kirk. That
17:28
Speaker 13: is the only pattern.
17:29
Speaker 14: We have.
17:30
Speaker 13: Patterns in forensic science, in psychology.
17:34
Speaker 2: This I'm listening to what you're saying, but I want
17:37
Speaker 2: you to look at your monitor because this is a
17:39
Speaker 2: perfect example. It looks totally weird, right, it looks Look
17:42
Speaker 2: at that that looks thing. It looks like a baseball umpire,
17:45
Speaker 2: the one in the black the dark shirt as well.
17:48
Speaker 2: And you know, I get where they're coming from. It
17:51
Speaker 2: was totally unconnected to the shooting. But taking one or
17:56
Speaker 2: two facts and cobbling them together and coming up with
17:59
Speaker 2: a theory, why do people do that?
18:02
Speaker 1: Is it their need for the truth.
18:06
Speaker 13: There's there's a need to feel that our universe is reliable,
18:09
Speaker 13: that the patterns of this earth are reliable, and there's
18:12
Speaker 13: an explanation for everything. But they find the explanation in
18:17
Speaker 13: linking things together that are are there unlinkable. You can't
18:21
Speaker 13: link somebody with a nervous tick. This guy with the
18:26
Speaker 13: arms on his shoulder remind me a nervous tick.
18:29
Speaker 2: Dare I say it of an a very very old
18:33
Speaker 2: piece of poetry by Thomas Hardy, As I recall, it's
18:37
Speaker 2: called hap hap, which is short for happenstance, where Hardy
18:42
Speaker 2: it pines, I'd rather there be some evil manion, God,
18:50
Speaker 2: small g that wishes ill on me, that's making me suffer,
18:56
Speaker 2: as opposed to thinking.
18:58
Speaker 1: This is all just by happenstance, just happened.
19:02
Speaker 2: I think our minds want to make sense of something
19:06
Speaker 2: that just happened because it doesn't fit in the order
19:10
Speaker 2: of our lives.
19:12
Speaker 13: But you know, Nancy, this is a part of our
19:13
Speaker 13: survival mechanism. If if we did not know where a
19:17
Speaker 13: predator was, we would be more likely to be killed
19:20
Speaker 13: or eaten. But if we knew where the predator was,
19:23
Speaker 13: then we could we could save ourselves. Like say our
19:26
Speaker 13: answers sessors. If they're running through the forest, they're running
19:30
Speaker 13: from a bear, but they don't know where the bear
19:32
Speaker 13: is hiding, there's a greater likelihood that they will be killed.
19:35
Speaker 13: So now, in our modern day society, in the face
19:39
Speaker 13: of the unknown, we have much greater anxiety. I'm thinking
19:43
Speaker 13: about patients who are people who get ghosted or canceled,
19:46
Speaker 13: or somebody doesn't return the call. That is much scary,
19:50
Speaker 13: scarier for them than if like a new date just
19:53
Speaker 13: called and said, hey, I'm not that into you. We
19:55
Speaker 13: all want certainty in our world.
19:57
Speaker 14: I'm filing a criminal information charge to Tyler James Robinson, age.
20:03
Speaker 11: Twenty two with a following crime.
20:07
Speaker 14: Cal one hag remated murder a conto offense or intentionally
20:13
Speaker 14: for knowingly causing the death and Charlie Hurdy under circumstances
20:18
Speaker 14: that created a great risk of death to others. Count
20:23
Speaker 14: two felany discharge of the fight arm causing serious body
20:28
Speaker 14: injury a first degree FELA.
20:36
Speaker 1: Crime. Stores with Nancy Grace.
20:42
Speaker 4: That man, that young man, I forgive him.
20:54
Speaker 1: I forgive him because it was what Christ did and
20:59
Speaker 1: is what would do. The answer to hate is not hate.
21:06
Speaker 2: That from our friends at turning Point, that is Erica
21:08
Speaker 2: Kirk forgiving her husband's killer. She's stronger than me. It's
21:18
Speaker 2: just all I can say. Now Trump has a very
21:21
Speaker 2: different opinion and is calling for the death penalty.
21:24
Speaker 1: That is a whole other can of worms joining us
21:28
Speaker 1: right now.
21:29
Speaker 2: A special guest, former Army sniper ballistics expert CoA Laarmore CoA,
21:36
Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. As you know, conspiracy
21:41
Speaker 2: theories are swirling, many of them involving the shooter and
21:46
Speaker 2: the shot, specifically saying that the shot is impossible for
21:52
Speaker 2: someone that is not a sharp shooter like yourself.
21:55
Speaker 1: First of all, let's just start with A and get
21:58
Speaker 1: to Z.
21:59
Speaker 2: Explain to me the shot as you understand it, that
22:03
Speaker 2: killed Charlie Kirk.
22:05
Speaker 11: The shot is very doable. Charlie Kirk was in a
22:09
Speaker 11: vulnerable position at the bottom of a fish bowl, right,
22:12
Speaker 11: the shooter had an elevated position where he could see
22:15
Speaker 11: pretty much anything. The distance also one hundred and sixty yards,
22:20
Speaker 11: so at the end of the day with a couple
22:21
Speaker 11: of range sessions, that's not that far and very doable.
22:24
Speaker 1: With a couple of what sessions range.
22:27
Speaker 11: So I go into the range a couple of times.
22:30
Speaker 11: This very very doable shot.
22:32
Speaker 1: You know what. I'm glad you said that.
22:34
Speaker 2: Hold on co A Chris mcdonne joining me, Director Cole
22:36
Speaker 2: Case Foundation, former homicide detective, star of the Interview Room
22:41
Speaker 2: on YouTube. Chris, they better be tracking down every firing
22:46
Speaker 2: range within a ten to twenty mile radius to see
22:49
Speaker 2: if they can get the shooter on cam.
22:54
Speaker 3: Yeah, no question about it, Nancy. And this investigation obviously
22:58
Speaker 3: is still very fluid. It's got two prongs to it.
23:02
Speaker 3: The first one is from the State Bureau of Investigation
23:06
Speaker 3: there in Utah, and they're under the umbrella of what
23:08
Speaker 3: they call SAYAK Statewide Information and Analysis Center. Those are
23:13
Speaker 3: the guys that are chasing most of these conspiracy theories, etc.
23:16
Speaker 3: And then the second lane here is the FBI. And
23:20
Speaker 3: what the FBI has done is they've brought in their
23:23
Speaker 3: evidence teams and they're going to do a laser trajectory
23:26
Speaker 3: analysis and they're going to match that up to what
23:29
Speaker 3: CO is talking here. Whether or not the shooter could
23:32
Speaker 3: have actually shot from that position, it's a no brainer.
23:36
Speaker 3: I agree with the Doc Morgan and as well as Cola.
23:40
Speaker 2: You know, Franz Borghart joining US veteran trial lawyer, former prosecutor, or,
23:45
Speaker 2: founder Borgheart's law firm. Franz, You're right in that every
23:51
Speaker 2: one of these conspiracies that are being spun out is
23:54
Speaker 2: fodder for the defense. Okay, all these that the shot
24:00
Speaker 2: was impossible, that the perp in custody couldn't have done it,
24:07
Speaker 2: that's just more fuel for the flame, and some good
24:09
Speaker 2: defense attorney is going to make hay with that.
24:12
Speaker 10: So where there's smoke, there's fire, Nancy, and sometimes there's
24:16
Speaker 10: smoke screens, And the more chaos a defense attorney can
24:19
Speaker 10: play with, the more opportunity there is for reasonable doubt
24:24
Speaker 10: or in this case, possibly getting a juror to say, hey,
24:28
Speaker 10: I think he did it, but I don't want to
24:29
Speaker 10: put him to death. So all of this stuff, all
24:32
Speaker 10: of this stuff is just fuel for what is otherwise
24:37
Speaker 10: seemingly an open and shutcase against this person.
24:41
Speaker 1: Says you.
24:42
Speaker 2: You know we thought that about OJ Simpson too, and
24:44
Speaker 2: Robert Blake and Todd mom Casey Anthony. We always say
24:48
Speaker 2: open a shut. Well, it ain't legal term, you know what.
24:52
Speaker 2: Let's get away from flights of fancy and old English literature.
25:00
Speaker 2: I J Cooe Loremore joining us. Okay, so you're saying
25:02
Speaker 2: the shot is possible with a few practices.
25:07
Speaker 1: At the range.
25:09
Speaker 2: What else can you tell me about the weapon that
25:12
Speaker 2: we believe was used. Next thing we're going to hear
25:15
Speaker 2: it's not that weapon. It was somebody else's weapon that
25:18
Speaker 2: hasn't been recovered.
25:19
Speaker 1: Tell me about the weapon, yes, Nancy.
25:22
Speaker 11: So it was a bolt action rifle, a little bit
25:25
Speaker 11: older than what I have right here, right, both action
25:28
Speaker 11: meaning you have to chamber around physically every time you
25:32
Speaker 11: press the trigger. Now, these rifles are very accurate, and
25:38
Speaker 11: using that weapon, you can achieve very accurate fire at
25:43
Speaker 11: longer distances than one hundred and sixty yards.
25:46
Speaker 1: Okay, here's my question.
25:48
Speaker 2: Right there, you said this weapon is very accurate as
25:50
Speaker 2: compared to what what's not accurate? A daisy B shotgun
25:55
Speaker 2: for a twelve year old? What do you mean this
25:57
Speaker 2: one is accurate?
25:58
Speaker 1: What about all the others? How is this one one different?
26:01
Speaker 11: So the difference between his and others? Right, he had
26:04
Speaker 11: the advantage of having also a scope on it. Right,
26:07
Speaker 11: this is going to magnify his target and it's going
26:12
Speaker 11: to make it a lot easier to shoot. It'll be
26:15
Speaker 11: a clearer picture, it'll zoom it in. It's just going
26:18
Speaker 11: to make it overall.
26:19
Speaker 2: When you say zoom it in, give me an example,
26:22
Speaker 2: like if I look through that at an ant one
26:26
Speaker 2: hundred feet away, what would it look like would be
26:29
Speaker 2: able to see is a little bit of insect eyes?
26:31
Speaker 1: How close are we talking?
26:33
Speaker 11: It's like having it in a magnifying glass. So if
26:36
Speaker 11: you were zooming in on an ant, right, depending on
26:39
Speaker 11: the magnification, whether that's eight times to twenty times, it
26:44
Speaker 11: could be the size of a human.
26:46
Speaker 2: So, Cole, you're a sharpshooter, But could a regular person
26:51
Speaker 2: make this shot?
26:54
Speaker 11: Yes, I believe a regular person can make this shot.
26:57
Speaker 1: I've got a lot of questions.
26:59
Speaker 2: First of all, when we say thirty six, we're referring
27:01
Speaker 2: to the bullet.
27:04
Speaker 1: What do you know about the bullet?
27:06
Speaker 11: So this is the bullet right here, Nancy. This is
27:08
Speaker 11: a thirty odd six. It travels at about twenty nine
27:12
Speaker 11: hundred feet per second. It also is used in Middle
27:16
Speaker 11: America for big game hunting. Dear L Coggs, so on
27:21
Speaker 11: and so forth.
27:22
Speaker 2: What do you make of claims the bullet could not
27:25
Speaker 2: have lodged in Charlie Kirk's neck.
27:29
Speaker 11: I think definitely anything as possible. I think why people
27:32
Speaker 11: are saying that is just because it's uncommon. This round
27:36
Speaker 11: normally goes through people.
27:38
Speaker 2: Why I don't get it. Why that bullet typically goes
27:41
Speaker 2: through and others don't.
27:42
Speaker 11: It's a larger round moving in a faster speed. That's
27:45
Speaker 11: why it's used for hunting big game.
27:47
Speaker 2: Ky Well, as you know, conspiracy theories are spinning out
27:51
Speaker 2: as we speak tonight.
27:53
Speaker 1: Next thing you know, we're going to hear the DNA
27:56
Speaker 1: as in the AJ Simpson case, was planted.
27:59
Speaker 2: So explain to me in the real world, not flights
28:03
Speaker 2: to fancy, where you would expect to find DNA on
28:07
Speaker 2: the weapon, on the bullets on the casings anywhere and show.
28:13
Speaker 1: Me how the DNA would have been left.
28:16
Speaker 11: So starting off with the weapon, I definitely would expect
28:19
Speaker 11: to find DNA here. I'd expect to find it first
28:22
Speaker 11: and foremost on the trigger right, also right where I'm
28:25
Speaker 11: holding my hand on the grip of the stock. Also
28:28
Speaker 11: when you chambering around, you're grabbing this lever, so DNA
28:32
Speaker 11: is on there as well. And then finally you're going
28:35
Speaker 11: to put your cheek on the stock, so saliva and
28:40
Speaker 11: stuff is going to go on here while you're breathing,
28:42
Speaker 11: your face is on it DNA. This is definitely going
28:44
Speaker 11: to be a DNA point as well.
28:47
Speaker 14: Well.
28:47
Speaker 1: How are you getting spit on the gun? What CoA?
28:52
Speaker 11: So you're you're breathing when you're taking your shot right,
28:54
Speaker 11: so your mouth is going to be open right and
28:57
Speaker 11: could be found right there on the back of the stock.
29:01
Speaker 1: That's explaining a lot.
29:03
Speaker 11: What about the bullets, so there's definitely gonna be DNA
29:08
Speaker 11: on there as well. While loading the rounds right, you
29:11
Speaker 11: have to load them into the chamber the magazine, you're
29:16
Speaker 11: definitely gonna have DNA on the bullets as well, unless
29:18
Speaker 11: you're extremely careful using gloves.
29:21
Speaker 1: Speaking of the bullets, Cola, Laura.
29:24
Speaker 2: More evidence suggests that the killer engraved the bullets.
29:32
Speaker 1: That's another question for the strength.
29:33
Speaker 2: What lonely dude is sitting at home engraving bullets? But
29:37
Speaker 2: that said, how in the heck do you engrave bullets?
29:42
Speaker 1: CoA?
29:43
Speaker 11: So it's very easy, Nancy. First of all, I assume
29:46
Speaker 11: takes some kind of Dremmel tool right here and that
29:49
Speaker 11: spins this drill bit and allows you to carve into
29:55
Speaker 11: the side of the casing or bullet.
29:58
Speaker 1: How long would that take? I mean, you have to.
30:00
Speaker 2: Have pinpoint precision to engrave a bullet.
30:04
Speaker 1: How do you do that? Have you ever seen it done?
30:06
Speaker 11: It's actually pretty quick. It's like writing with a marker. Basically,
30:10
Speaker 11: your handwriting might not be the best, but the message
30:13
Speaker 11: we'll get across.
30:15
Speaker 1: Have you ever seen it done? CoA.
30:18
Speaker 11: I've never seen anyone in my line of work engrave
30:21
Speaker 11: on their bullets.
30:22
Speaker 2: Now, because you're normal, okay, You're not hunched over an
30:26
Speaker 2: engraving desk down in the basement in mommy's house with
30:29
Speaker 2: a light hanging over your head engraving a bullet.
30:32
Speaker 1: So I'm trying to figure out what more evidence I
30:35
Speaker 1: can get now that you've showed me that tool. I
30:38
Speaker 1: wonder if one of.
30:39
Speaker 2: Those is going to be found in his home that
30:41
Speaker 2: he shared with his alleged male lover, the allegations of
30:46
Speaker 2: him being a furry don't care, I care about. Hold
30:50
Speaker 2: up that tool again, what did you call it? This
30:53
Speaker 2: is a dremal nancy, but dremmel is actually a brand
30:59
Speaker 2: name McDonald's or xerox copy. What is the actual tool called.
31:05
Speaker 11: It's a rotary grinder.
31:08
Speaker 1: A rotary grinder.
31:09
Speaker 2: Okay, don't move, Joe Scott Morgan, wan't see and jump in,
31:12
Speaker 2: Joe Scott.
31:13
Speaker 12: Yeah, I was well done by Coda. He described us
31:17
Speaker 12: down to a t relative to DNA deposition. Two things here.
31:22
Speaker 12: First off, this weapon it's a ninety it's a Mauser
31:25
Speaker 12: ninety eight. That means it has an internal mag which
31:29
Speaker 12: means it's not external where you see external magazine. So
31:32
Speaker 12: he would have had to the perpetrator would have had
31:34
Speaker 12: to have loaded this internally. Where you're pushing the rounds down,
31:38
Speaker 12: a point of contact would probably be the thumb, over
31:41
Speaker 12: and over and over again until he gets the internal
31:45
Speaker 12: magazine topped off. Now back to the dremal tool, what's
31:51
Speaker 12: going to come into play? Here, Nancy is. They're going
31:53
Speaker 12: to reach out probably to their question Document section. I
31:57
Speaker 12: would imagine within the FBI, they're going to get samples
32:02
Speaker 12: of this guy's handwriting and they will try to compare it.
32:06
Speaker 12: They'll try to compare it to what was left behind
32:09
Speaker 12: on the casings themselves, on that soft metal casing where
32:13
Speaker 12: he would have engraved at that point in time. And yeah,
32:15
Speaker 12: I know that it's kind of a long shot, but
32:17
Speaker 12: there are just certain things what are referred to as
32:20
Speaker 12: neuro muscular responses between our eyes and our writing, that
32:23
Speaker 12: you can't change. There will be features there that will
32:26
Speaker 12: be identifiable relative to his handwriting.
32:29
Speaker 2: Cole Laurenlour, I know you heard all that Joe Scott
32:32
Speaker 2: just said, which was a lot of information.
32:35
Speaker 1: You are a former Army sniper.
32:37
Speaker 2: You can make this shot, you say a regular person
32:41
Speaker 2: could make the shot. How long did you train? What
32:45
Speaker 2: does that mean to be an army sniper?
32:49
Speaker 11: First off, Army sniper school is five weeks long. Also,
32:53
Speaker 11: I've trained for two years to become an Army sniper.
32:58
Speaker 11: And then you have follow on scouls which I competed
33:01
Speaker 11: in the International Sniper competition and I also participated in
33:06
Speaker 11: Army Mountain Riflemen course, So that's the Army's Mountain sniper school.
33:11
Speaker 15: The messages also referred to engraving bullets and a mention
33:15
Speaker 15: of a scope and the rifle being unique messages from
33:20
Speaker 15: the contact. Tyler also mentioned that he had changed outfits.
33:25
Speaker 15: Investigators noted inscriptions that had been engraved on casings found
33:29
Speaker 15: with the rifle. Inscriptions on a fired casing read notices
33:35
Speaker 15: bulge's capital wo, what's this question? Mark. Inscriptions on the
33:41
Speaker 15: three unfired casings read hey fascist, exclamation point, catch exclamation point,
33:48
Speaker 15: up arrow symbol, right arrow and symbol, and three down
33:53
Speaker 15: arrow symbols. A second unfired casing read oh belichow belachow,
33:59
Speaker 15: belichow chow chow, and a third on fired casing read
34:03
Speaker 15: if you read this, you are gay LMAO.
34:08
Speaker 7: Robinson's neighbors speculating about the suspect since he was arrested.
34:12
Speaker 7: Robinson and his roommate were known recluses, rarely seen leaving
34:16
Speaker 7: their home except for work in school, and virtually never
34:19
Speaker 7: entertaining visitors. However, neighbors noticed an unusual amount of traffic
34:24
Speaker 7: on their street in the weeks leading up to the shooting,
34:26
Speaker 7: and they did not recognize any of the cars, many
34:29
Speaker 7: of them marked without of state plates.
34:32
Speaker 2: It's called routine evidence, not that it's typical routine, but
34:38
Speaker 2: evidence of someone's routine. These two, the shooting suspect and
34:44
Speaker 2: roommate alleged Furry, were recluses to Victoria, Churchill joining US
34:52
Speaker 2: political reporter dailymail dot com joining us out of DC.
34:56
Speaker 1: Is this true? They rarely had people in their home.
35:01
Speaker 2: That was very unusual for them, but yet leading up
35:05
Speaker 2: to the time of the shooting, it it was like
35:10
Speaker 2: a parking lot, so many cars outside their home.
35:13
Speaker 1: Neighbors had never seen that before Victoria.
35:16
Speaker 6: This is kind of I think what Erica Kirk, his widow,
35:20
Speaker 6: was talking about at the memorial on Sunday, that there
35:23
Speaker 6: is an epidemic of men who are lonely and need
35:26
Speaker 6: to find a purpose and a calling and a community.
35:29
Speaker 6: And you know, it seems like these two, outside of
35:32
Speaker 6: each other, did not have much of that. And you know,
35:35
Speaker 6: this is a reason why community and I mean just
35:39
Speaker 6: outside of this case, this is something that gets talked
35:42
Speaker 6: about a lot by conservatives is to change the politics,
35:44
Speaker 6: you have to change the culture. And in our culture,
35:46
Speaker 6: there's a lot of a lack of you know, so
35:48
Speaker 6: called third spaces where people aren't at home, aren't at work,
35:52
Speaker 6: or aren't at school, and aren't at home.
35:54
Speaker 16: Community gathering and finding like minded individuals, I think is
35:57
Speaker 16: something that plagues you know, Generation Z, generation Alpha, even
36:01
Speaker 16: some millennials, particularly men who may not necessarily be more social.
36:07
Speaker 16: I think women tend to be a little bit more social,
36:09
Speaker 16: and so you know, it's it's not surprising that these
36:11
Speaker 16: two and particularly Robinson, who is you know, at least
36:16
Speaker 16: right now the shooter in this case, that he did
36:20
Speaker 16: not have a community, did not have a group of
36:22
Speaker 16: support to make sure And how did you.
36:26
Speaker 2: Mean by that, at least right now is the shooter?
36:29
Speaker 1: Do you think somebody else is the shooter?
36:33
Speaker 6: Well, this is the evidence that we are going off
36:35
Speaker 6: of right now, as is the FBI, and as is
36:37
Speaker 6: everyone else.
36:44
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, doctor Bethany Marshall.
36:52
Speaker 2: That was a mouthful all of which everything Victoria Churchill
36:56
Speaker 2: said is true, now true.
36:59
Speaker 1: To take what she said and use it in a
37:02
Speaker 1: murder case, help me out.
37:04
Speaker 13: Well, what I would hear in terms of a murder
37:06
Speaker 13: case is that their primary attachments were online. So if
37:10
Speaker 13: you want to gather behavioral evidence, you're going to look
37:13
Speaker 13: at their online activity. Somebody who writes on a bullet
37:18
Speaker 13: about getting a bulge and then a meme for a
37:22
Speaker 13: smiley face after that, again, I would think about that
37:26
Speaker 13: being sexually motivated. I know they were a part of
37:29
Speaker 13: the furry community, which was all online in this case
37:33
Speaker 13: in which in which pornography and pretending to be man creature.
37:40
Speaker 2: Are you at Windsor Castle, I'm not. We're not having
37:45
Speaker 2: high tea with Canilla right now. The bullet was engraved
37:51
Speaker 2: about an erection. That's what this whack adoodle not desist.
37:57
Speaker 2: He's legally insane. He's thinking about his erection. He's engraving
38:04
Speaker 2: a bullet about his erection, the bullet he and his
38:10
Speaker 2: to use to murder Charlie Kirk. Now I'm not a shrink,
38:17
Speaker 2: but that means something.
38:20
Speaker 13: What I think it means that the aggression and the
38:23
Speaker 13: dominance over another male and the notoriety that it would
38:27
Speaker 13: bring about was sexually exciting to him. Aggression and sex
38:33
Speaker 13: go together often for men who are criminals. We see
38:36
Speaker 13: this with serial killers, we see this with sadistic rapists,
38:40
Speaker 13: we see this with pedophiles. They try to control the victim,
38:44
Speaker 13: have power over the victim, and it is sexually exciting
38:48
Speaker 13: to them. I would think that the motivation for this crime,
38:51
Speaker 13: while many people conspiracy therapists, theorists, UI, everybody, we would
38:56
Speaker 13: want to think it's politically motivated, like there would be
38:59
Speaker 13: something meaningful or reasonable, or at least some type of
39:03
Speaker 13: a motivation we could understand. I think of this again
39:07
Speaker 13: as being more sexually motivated. That the aggression and the
39:10
Speaker 13: violence made him feel like a man, and that's why
39:14
Speaker 13: he put it on the bullet that went in his
39:16
Speaker 13: big old phallic symbol, the gun.
39:20
Speaker 2: Okay, I've got a question for you. You're saying that to
39:25
Speaker 2: get motive we're going to have to look at everything
39:27
Speaker 2: online because he basically had no interaction with anyone except
39:31
Speaker 2: for his alleged male lover.
39:33
Speaker 1: So that's what we're looking at.
39:37
Speaker 2: How does his fantasy life regarding furries fit into his
39:40
Speaker 2: out of body experiences?
39:43
Speaker 13: Well, I think with furries there are many aspects of
39:46
Speaker 13: the furry community, but one aspect is called ERP, which
39:51
Speaker 13: is erotic role play in which one dresses up as
39:55
Speaker 13: a furry or as an animal. Other people tell them
39:58
Speaker 13: what to do, and they create vignettes in which they
40:01
Speaker 13: interact with each other.
40:02
Speaker 1: Now.
40:03
Speaker 13: I don't know if he was a voyeur or doing
40:05
Speaker 13: this online, but this tells me that this guy lives
40:09
Speaker 13: in a fantasy world, that there is a lot of
40:12
Speaker 13: role play going on.
40:13
Speaker 1: Now.
40:14
Speaker 13: Furries also have personalities, or they wear furst suits, so
40:19
Speaker 13: they mess up as people they are not.
40:23
Speaker 2: It's not just furries this guy's interested in. It's not
40:28
Speaker 2: just his a legend male lover. It's really crossing the line.
40:35
Speaker 2: Listen to one side in which he's interested.
40:38
Speaker 7: Robinson's corned history surfaces. Robinson earned an award on steam
40:43
Speaker 7: for frequently playing Furry Shades of Gay, a collection of
40:47
Speaker 7: choose your own adventure sex scenes between humanoid animal characters.
40:52
Speaker 7: On fur affinity dot com, Robinson follows Red Rusker, a
40:56
Speaker 7: controversial artist who published cubporn between a clearly adult character
41:02
Speaker 7: and an eight year old possum. Robinson his friends with
41:05
Speaker 7: the user who post pornographic cartoons of women with grossly
41:09
Speaker 7: oversized bellies, sometimes having eaten their partner whole.
41:14
Speaker 1: Okay, can you explain that to me?
41:17
Speaker 2: It's well to be furry, it's another thing to watch
41:20
Speaker 2: furry porn with an eight year old possum, which is
41:25
Speaker 2: clearly an eight year old boy.
41:27
Speaker 13: You know, Nancy, because these these furry characters are avatars
41:33
Speaker 13: of Tyler. Okay, they're his avatar.
41:37
Speaker 2: To Chris mcdonne and joining us homicide detective star of
41:40
Speaker 2: the interview room. You know, the neighbors are stating that
41:44
Speaker 2: the alleged Purps home was thronged with vehicles, which is
41:49
Speaker 2: very uncharacteristic. These two were reclusive recluses. You went to
41:54
Speaker 2: the scene.
41:55
Speaker 1: Somebody's got to have door cam, which means the fans
41:59
Speaker 1: are going to have video of.
42:01
Speaker 2: Everybody outside that home. Let's see a shot of the
42:04
Speaker 2: home that McDonough took.
42:07
Speaker 17: Yeah, Natcy, I mean they're they're going to have not
42:10
Speaker 17: only hopefully some door cam video, but maybe some license
42:15
Speaker 17: plates as well that are coming in and out of
42:16
Speaker 17: that you know, neighborhood there, and and you know, talking
42:21
Speaker 17: about all this furry stuff. I mean, maybe this guy
42:23
Speaker 17: should just have been booked at the Humane Society because
42:27
Speaker 17: I mean, this stuff, this stuff is it put.
42:29
Speaker 2: Him up is absolutely you know what, This is not
42:35
Speaker 2: a time for levity. Let's move forward with the adults
42:38
Speaker 2: and the evidence is what can we make of the
42:40
Speaker 2: vehicle's part, if anything?
42:43
Speaker 17: Yeah, well, it just tells us that there's a secondary
42:47
Speaker 17: possibility that you know, he's got a lot of friends
42:50
Speaker 17: that may have had pre incident knowledge about this and
42:53
Speaker 17: one other thing about the let's talk about the showcasing
42:56
Speaker 17: again one more time. At his house, they found a
42:59
Speaker 17: showcasing with additional engraving on it that tells me maybe
43:04
Speaker 17: they also have the box. And if there's a box,
43:08
Speaker 17: then there's a lot number on those on that box.
43:11
Speaker 17: They're gonna chase it down.
43:13
Speaker 2: Also, we are hearing conspiracy theories hatched from another neighbor
43:20
Speaker 2: that sees the alleged slator walking through yacking on his
43:25
Speaker 2: phone immediately after the shot.
43:27
Speaker 1: Question is who's he talking to? Who else knows about
43:30
Speaker 1: the shooting.
43:31
Speaker 5: A homeowner in the neighborhood just off campus where Robinson
43:35
Speaker 5: stashed his Dodge Challenger turned over doorbell footage of a
43:38
Speaker 5: man they believe to be Robinson walking past their home
43:41
Speaker 5: talking on his cell phone just minutes after the shooting.
43:44
Speaker 5: The homeowners told FBI they heard the man mention the
43:47
Speaker 5: shooting in his conversation, leading to suggestions Robinson told at
43:51
Speaker 5: least one other person of his plans and may have
43:54
Speaker 5: an accomplice.
43:55
Speaker 7: Candace Owens published a never before seen photo of Robinson
43:59
Speaker 7: after shooting. Robinson is seen standing at the counter in
44:03
Speaker 7: a dairy queen seventeen minutes from campus, in a maroon shirt, jeans,
44:07
Speaker 7: and wearing a black hat with black sunglasses on top.
44:11
Speaker 7: Owens claims the photo was taken at six thirty eight
44:13
Speaker 7: PM while Robinson waited to retrieve his grandfather's rifle.
44:17
Speaker 2: That photo on the left from Candasso and Cydney Sumner,
44:20
Speaker 2: Crime Story's investigative reporter. Even if it even if that
44:23
Speaker 2: is Robinson, how does that fit into the timeline?
44:28
Speaker 1: Well, this fits. It shows that he was still.
44:31
Speaker 18: Hanging out in Orum in the area of UVU campus,
44:36
Speaker 18: waiting to try and get that rifle back. We see
44:40
Speaker 18: that in that text conversation between Robinson and Lance Twiggs
44:44
Speaker 18: discussing I'm trying to leave. I wanted to be out
44:48
Speaker 18: of here by now and to get that gun back,
44:50
Speaker 18: not only to prevent him from getting caught, but because
44:54
Speaker 18: that was a family heirloom and he was worried he
44:58
Speaker 18: would be caught if he didn't have that rifle on him,
45:01
Speaker 18: which is exactly what his father bought him on later,
45:05
Speaker 18: send me a picture of your grandfather's rifle and Robinson
45:09
Speaker 18: couldn't because he didn't have it with it.
45:12
Speaker 1: More from Candie Owans, Listen.
45:13
Speaker 19: I feel this kid, for some reason, some unknown reason,
45:17
Speaker 19: is being protected, and I'm not the only one.
45:20
Speaker 1: His family feels that way.
45:21
Speaker 19: Okay, his family thinks it's odd they don't buy the story. Okay,
45:25
Speaker 19: Lance's family is telling me that they are not buying
45:30
Speaker 19: the current story and that they feel that more people
45:34
Speaker 19: are involved. They think it's odd that the Fed's moved
45:37
Speaker 19: on from him so quickly, and that the Feds were
45:39
Speaker 19: being dishonest, and they felt about everything when they first
45:43
Speaker 19: came out with information that.
45:44
Speaker 2: From Candace Owans, have the Feds moved on from him?
45:48
Speaker 2: To Franz A borcart joining as veteran trial lawyer Franz,
45:52
Speaker 2: I'm not sure that they've moved on from the roommate.
45:56
Speaker 2: Just because he's not in custody does not mean they've
45:58
Speaker 2: dropped his investigation.
46:00
Speaker 12: I agree.
46:01
Speaker 10: I don't think they've moved on from anybody. And just
46:03
Speaker 10: because there hasn't been an arrest yet doesn't mean there
46:06
Speaker 10: won't be in arrests. The Feds are very thorough. They
46:10
Speaker 10: do a great job with their investigations and look Oftentimes
46:15
Speaker 10: the FEDS will take their time with co conspirators. Sometimes
46:20
Speaker 10: co conspirators cooperate against principal actors. So I agree, Nancy,
46:25
Speaker 10: I don't think we should assume anybody has moved on
46:28
Speaker 10: from anything with regard to this investigation.
46:31
Speaker 2: If you know or think you know anything about the
46:34
Speaker 2: Kirk shooting, you may think it's insignificant, but it may
46:38
Speaker 2: not be. Please dial eight zero one five seventy nine
46:44
Speaker 2: fourteen hundred, repeat eight zero one five seventy nine fourteen hundred,
46:50
Speaker 2: or go online to tips dot FBI dot gov. And
46:56
Speaker 2: now we remember an American hero, Sergeant Ryan Hudson Paduka
47:00
Speaker 2: pid killed in the line of duty after ten years
47:04
Speaker 2: in l E, leaving behind his grieving wife, Whitney, and
47:09
Speaker 2: two daughters, Ayana and Layela. American Hero Sergeant Ryan Hudson,
47:17
Speaker 2: Nancy Grace signing off goodbye friend,