Latest / We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits / 242. Podcasting for Good: Why Your Org (or You!) Should be Podcasting - Jonathan McCoy, CFRE, Becky Endicott, CFRE, and Julie Confer

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242. Podcasting for Good: Why Your Org (or You!) Should be Podcasting - Jonathan McCoy, CFRE, Becky Endicott, CFRE, and Julie Confer · We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits

• 0:01
  Becky Endicott: Hey, I'm John.
• 0:01
  Becky Endicott: And I'm Becky.
• 0:03
  Jonathan McCoy: And this is the we are for good podcast.
• 0:06
  Becky Endicott: Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.
• 0:15
  Jonathan McCoy: We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.
• 0:23
  Becky Endicott: So welcome to the good community, where Nonprofit Professionals, philanthropist, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
• 0:34
  Jonathan McCoy: So let's get started. New Series Happy Friday,
• 0:38
  Becky Endicott: happy Friday, can I tell you what I was just thinking about? It's just us now it's been like nine weeks of having our friends in. And it's just feels like it's just us now, like all the relatives have left after the holidays. And we're getting back into the swing of things. So it's good to be back starting a new series.
• 0:55
  Jonathan McCoy: Yeah. And we actually asked Julie to pull her chair up to the table because we're starting a new series called podcasting for good. We get questions like all the time about podcasting. And I know, by virtue of listening here, you probably like podcasts, or you're exploring them. And it is this really interesting thing.
• 1:09
  Jonathan McCoy: Sure, it's still kind of a niche market, and so so to speak, but at the same time, it's growing like crazy. And there's a lot of opportunity here. And we think the biggest opportunity is for nonprofits, and social impact entrepreneurs to step into this space. And so there's a little bit of our thought leadership around that, but also a lot of how to, because we think you should pull up a chair here, too, and find a home.
• 1:31
  Becky Endicott: Yeah, and let me totally affirm every single person who's listening by virtue of being here being a podcast listener, as it's sort of defined in the lexicon of who are you and who are the people listening. You're a very curious individual, you're a growth mindset individual. You're someone who's very interested in getting to work in community and learning and growing. So thanks for being such a forward thinking individual, because we think this is just one of the best kept secrets in marketing and community engagement in fundraising. And we don't want it to be the best kept secret in anymore. We want everyone to know, or the power that exists in podcasting. You know, it builds engagement. It builds global community. It builds quick, rich content, it builds this incredible network, it builds your thought leadership and rabid fans, it brings in stories. And there's a really cool way to have two way dialogue that leads back to engagement. And at the end of the day, we're marketers disguised as fundraisers, there's so much rich content to grab here that you can use in so many different ways within your missions. And it's just the tip of the iceberg. So we're kind of geeked out and really excited to dive into this topic.
• 2:49
  Jonathan McCoy: Yep. And so if you're trying to thread together, you know, why are we talking about podcasting, after coming out of this series of trends that we see happening?
• 2:57
  Jonathan McCoy: Let me bubble up some of the trends that we've seen that really align with this, you know, we talked about the importance of thought leadership this year, that talked about the importance of ethical storytelling, and about, you know, really looking for donors that have the behavioral moves to show that they're engaged with you, not just the dollars.
• 3:14
  Jonathan McCoy: And this is a medium that is self selecting these people that value align that have an interest enough to tune into whatever frequency that you're coming at them. And it just builds this real close connection, because long form media. And we just think that is a secret sauce for what we're all trying to do through our missions is trying to get really close and have this intimate relationship where we can talk and talk about shared values and just build on that together. So we just really want you to come up to this table, and we're going to talk tactics, it's not going to be just like a heady discussion, we're going to throw you a lot of the tips that we use to really make it practical and make it easy and accessible to kind of approach. And we've also asked Julie to come in with the pro tips. You know, we're really big about one good thing around here. So there's going to be just a mix of this, what I feel like you're gonna feel inspired to hopefully start or at least lean into some channels that maybe you haven't thought about yet.
• 4:05
  Becky Endicott: And I just have to like pause on Julie here and make her very uncomfortable as we talk about her. But here's the thing that I don't think a lot of people probably connect with Julie. I mean, she is said she is prepping every single interview. She is sitting in and taking show notes on every single interview. Then she's editing every single interview.
• 4:27
  Becky Endicott: And so the whole time her hands are in the mix of meeting guests talking to their gatekeepers, like figuring out what is the trend and the in the moment that we need to meet. How does it elevate? I think Julie is one of the foremost accomplished producers in this space. And she taught herself and for anyone out there who has imposter syndrome. It's like Julie just had the Moxie, the grit to just set up and go onto YouTube and figure this out and we're saying It could be that simple. And we want you to do it too, because we want your mission and your cars to thrive.
• 5:06
  Julie Confer: Thank you, I am hiding under the table already know, I'm really excited to be a part of this, John and Becky approached me to manage their whole podcast and how do you say no, because you want to work with them. So that's why I am facing Oh, you guys. But it really has been I do a lot of listening. My joke is that I hear John and Becky's voice inside my head more than my own these days. But you learn a lot when you just slow down and listen. And so I am really excited to pour into this conversation because I do feel like I've learned a lot.
• 5:37
  Jonathan McCoy: Yeah, and we learned so much from Julie.
• 5:39
  Jonathan McCoy: She's like the gut check of our entire team too, because she is always listening and threading all these things together. So let's give you a little bit of framework of where we're headed with these conversations. We're going to take the next four weeks to unpack this kind of theme of podcasting for good.
• 5:53
  Jonathan McCoy: But today, we're going to start off with just why should you lean into this? Why should your organization start a podcast or get involved with podcasting?
• 5:58
  Jonathan McCoy: Then we're going to go into how to actually launch a podcast next week, like what are the tips, the tools, the kind of triggers to put in place to do that, and then we want to like kind of flip the script, because if you're not looking to start a podcast, you at least should be pitching your mission to get on podcast. So we're gonna do a deep dive into how to make a pitch that gets the producer to respond to you in books the show, and then we're gonna take the last week to prep you for that moment. How do you show up at interviews? How do you come prepared to make the most dynamic interview that's gonna not just serve the podcasting listening audience, but really your mission and how it's going to push you down the field. So as we dive in today, we just want to give you kind of a 20,000 foot view. Let's look at podcasting. from a global perspective, what's happening and Becky's pulled some crazy stats around this.
• 6:43
  Becky Endicott: Well, STATISTICA has this incredible report they put out every year, we pulled this from Buzzsprout. And I have to tell you, I thought I knew a lot about podcasts. And then I started reading some of these stats. And I just want to say that the pandemic has caused an explosion and a flurry of activity in the sector. And so there are so many more people on I mean, think about 500,000 podcasts existing. So you've half a million in 2018. There's more than 2 million right now globally, with 48 million podcast episodes. So that's just tremendous growth. And when you think about this industry growing steadily since like the early 2000. You know, it grew alongside the advent of ways that it could be plugged in smartphones, you know, Alexa, Google Home, like all these indash entertainment systems, people can take it with them wherever they go. And I have to tell you, what we find with a lot of our listeners is they're not sitting at their desk listening to us during their work time. They're feeding us in and working us in, during while they're doing other things. So it's just very, very interesting.
• 7:52
  Jonathan McCoy: Well, just the growth of listeners. I mean, I think, you know, podcast listeners are by nature, people that want to share and go deeper into a topic. And that's kind of what the data shows. I mean, it went up from over 29% growth and just like a two year span, like what other form of media is growing at that rate, you know, and so I just think this is an opportunity here. By this point, more than 50% of the US population has listened to a podcast. So there's still so much opportunity to, and that's up from just 20%, just a few years ago. And so the thing that I probably love the most about podcasts is it creates this rhythm, you know, the shows that you follow, you get into a cadence around listening to them, and it becomes like a ritual almost, that either amps you up or get you excited, or it's a place that you turn to on whatever basis. And that's the truth. I mean, 28% of Americans are now weekly podcast listeners, because when you find something that you know, helps give you that spark or inspiration, you keep coming back to it time and time again.
• 8:49
  Jonathan McCoy: And that's just the truth with this type of media.
• 8:51
  Becky Endicott: Yeah, I just I love it so much. I'm so geeked out when I saw this stat that each week more Americans listen to podcasts than have Netflix accounts, my mind exploded. But I want to dive a little bit into the demographics like who is listening. I mean, female listenership reached an all time high in 2021. I mean, these are podcast listeners are usually people between the ages of 12 and 34. They make up about 66% of podcast fans and the United States has the largest listener base. It's 47.9% of global listeners in listen to this. The second is the United Kingdom at 6.3%. So you can just see that massive disparity of so much is happening here in the United States. And now it's beginning to trickle out. There's just so much potential here with 1/4 of Americans even age 55 Plus are listening to podcasts mom and dad. I'm so proud of you for finding your passions and listening to podcasts and pouring into them. And the thing I love the most about podcasts is they are so human. You really feel like you get to know someone it's not a polished You know, show like you would see with Good Morning America or if you're watching TED lasso, it's so raw and vulnerable. And it's typically a very safe space. And people feel like they are with their people in there. And I think if you do it right, and you do it well, you can foster that same sense of camaraderie that just takes your messages further than you could ever imagine.
• 10:21
  Julie Confer: I'm having a flashback to a couple years ago, when I was interning at St.
• 10:25
  Julie Confer: Jude, we had to do in turn group innovation projects. And just as y'all have been talking, I'm having this flashback that the winning group, their whole presentation was around leveraging podcasts. So they were pitching to the St. Jude leadership. I can't remember if it was about having a podcast or creating advertisements for podcasts. So that was only five or six years ago. And that was quote, unquote, an innovation project. And I wasn't really familiar with podcast yet. I maybe had like a show or two that like friends would send me an episode and I would listen to. So it's just kind of cool to see how much it's grown in six years. And I can't imagine what six years from now is going to look like. Because when we launched our podcast, I introduced my parents to what podcasts are. So I just think, an opportunity to get in now before it continues to blow up and grow. It's just kind of cool to reflect that. That's something we were talking about six years ago.
• 11:15
  Becky Endicott: Wow. It just shows the innovation and the scale that it's accelerating to, which is just fascinating.
• 11:24
  Jonathan McCoy: Hey, friends, we've got to pause the podcast for a minute, we have some really exciting news to share.
• 11:28
  Becky Endicott: Yeah, we're partnering up with our friends at virtuous to co host this year's free responsive nonprofits summit on April 20, and 21st. And we want to see you there.
• 11:37
  Jonathan McCoy: So come and join 1000s of like minded forward thinking nonprofit leaders for two days of fresh insights, helpful workshops, and genuine conversations as we gather virtually from wherever you find yourself.
• 11:49
  Becky Endicott: We're curating some amazing panels to help you build better systems and strategies to help you grow your impact. You may even recognize some of our past podcast guests and favorite thought leaders to
• 11:59
  Jonathan McCoy: Okay, so can we count you in to join us at the responsive nonprofit Summit, visit virtuous.org/good and register for free? Hey, friends, after meeting some of the most visionary leaders and world changers in the nonprofit sector today, we realize they all have one thing in common. They invest in themselves and their teams so they can stay relevant to what's working now to succeed and scale their missions. You know us we believe education is for all and that's what we created. We're for good pro Pro is reimagining nonprofit professional development, giving you access to incredible live coaching events with some of the best thought leaders like kushana Palmer and Lynn Wester and more.
• 12:34
  Jonathan McCoy: Imagine being able to work through your challenges in real time. That's the power of pro.
• 12:41
  Jonathan McCoy: Every week, we host a new workshop, giving you the playbook and tools to take immediate action, build your confidence and grow your impact.
• 12:45
  Jonathan McCoy: Be the Pro and get started today with a 14 day free trial head over to we're for good pro.com/free. Okay, let's get back to this amazing conversation. And I think it's a place even as more people move into it, it's still like a place of abundance, because with the philosophy we're going to teach you here. I mean, there's a lot of courses that could tell you how to grow to a million downloads or something like that. But that's really not what's at stake here. What's at stake, and what's the possibility for your nonprofit is it's creating this new way to connect deeply with your audience. And on a value level to where the number really doesn't matter as much as the depth of the relationship matters. And so what other channel is out there that's, you know, giving you that prospect.
• 13:33
  Jonathan McCoy: So forget the fact that 900,000 new podcasts were created in 220 20, which blows my mind. But at the same time, there's room for everybody, because we know what our work is so special, that it's going to attract the type of people that are really interested in that type of work.
• 13:47
  Jonathan McCoy: And that's what's at stake here, which I think is just so exciting, and so fun to lean into. So let's give you some reasons why you would want to I mean, I think we've made the case that it's booming, the industry is exploding, I think especially at Spotify came into the space in the last couple of years, that it really took it to a different level, the huge blow up that's happening right now with Joe Rogan. And everything that's happening around that shows you just the influential nature that podcasts are having on the national discussion, you know, of how people are getting information, how they're building trust. I mean, it tells a lot about as a society, how we're listening to people that we believe have authority, whether they actually do or not, it's whoever you listen to, and who you're plugging into on the regular. Oh, I
• 14:28
  Becky Endicott: couldn't agree with you more. Yes, it's an explosive industry. But this is such an easy, authentic way to grow awareness of your mission.
• 14:34
  Becky Endicott: John talked about how it provides the ability to have long form conversation. That's hard right now you look at something like Tic tock or Twitter and it's like everything is about concise bites, because people are scrolling. But if somebody intentionally comes into your house and they want to hear a story, it is going to allow for more detail, richer conversation, you're going to be able to go deeper. And so And I think one of the other hallmarks is, if there's some semi permanence here, I mean, it could hang around for a long time, if not forever. I mean, our catalog, we hope will be there forever. But it's like, if you can find a way, in now, we're going to challenge you to think like a marketer, to make sure that your content is searchable, so people can find it. That's how you're also going to draw and attract people who really care about the things that you're discussing.
• 15:28
  Jonathan McCoy: And something here too, that I think is really critical is that it's content that you own as your organization. So if you spent all this time trying to create a really engaging reel on Instagram, at the end of the day, it lives on Instagram. And so it's, you know, kind of tethered to the algorithms around that. But this is content that you're creating that you own in perpetuity, you could use it on your podcast feed, but you can also repurpose it in all the different ways to benefit your audience. And so that shareability gold, yeah, it's it's so gold, and there's just endless opportunities for how you can leverage it. This is something we love too, is just that it adds value to the conversation. It's not just asking somebody to give this gives you a channel that you can help educate that you can help empower that you can I really tap that people that are part of your organization that do spend their day researching whatever issue that you're facing are on the front lines, and give them a microphone, so you can have part of your storytelling that maybe he's never been told before about your mission. It's like this huge untapped opportunity to really give more story to the work that's happening on the front lines, it's not there today.
• 16:33
  Becky Endicott: And especially if you're creating content in your organization, this is such an easy way to share it, I just think of like a basic example.
• 16:38
  Becky Endicott: You know, if you're thinking of the arbor Foundation, if someone's giving to the arbor Foundation, and they love trees, and they love biodiversity, you know, we don't want to just ask them for a gift we we have a lot to do to educate them about the challenges of the earth and how they have a role to play in it.
• 16:54
  Becky Endicott: And think about just getting to sit in with thought leaders and experts, and diving deep into topics that are very passionate and near and dear to your heart.
• 17:05
  Becky Endicott: I just think it provides such a really interesting way to connect with your rabid fans.
• 17:09
  Becky Endicott: And so I also think that we have seen that it is such an incredible and free professional development tool. And that's what we hope you're getting as you're here we I mean, yes, we hope we're challenging your heart and your mind and tapping into your passion. But if you're somebody that works in this space, we want you to innovate, we want to share what's working, we want to bring in the experts who are doing it, we want to share that freely, because we want you to run faster. Yeah, and
• 17:39
  Jonathan McCoy: by doing so, you know, podcasts open us all up to this idea of cognitive diversity allows us to get into the conversations that maybe we would never get to be a part of.
• 17:48
  Jonathan McCoy: And you can also invite your listeners to be part of those conversations that maybe they wouldn't have access to. And so we just love that accessibility and the even playing field that it creates, and just the confidence that of creating timely, immediate, modern content. It allows you to speak to what's happening right now.
• 18:05
  Jonathan McCoy: And you can release something as quickly as you can record it.
• 18:08
  Jonathan McCoy: And so just the newness is something that's really unique for the platform that I think makes it a low friction entry point. If it's something that, you know, your mission could plug into.
• 18:53
  Becky Endicott: Yeah, and I just think donors like to be on the cutting edge. They always want to know what it what is the mission doing that. So forward thinking how can I get on board with that? I mean, this is a medium that is forward thinking and it creates urgency, I go back and put my public relations hat on from when I was a little kid, I feel like 20 years ago.
• 19:13
  Becky Endicott: And you know, the thing that you had to always pushing your messages was urgency. It's of the now this is relevant today.
• 19:21
  Becky Endicott: And the beauty of podcasts is it's already modern. So when you're going there, you know that what you're getting is not stale, old content. It's really steeped in what is happening now. And the last benefit that we would say is it provides an incredible outlet for two way communication. And I don't mean just with you and your guests. I mean the way that you leverage your content, you can't just let it sit in the podcast universe and sit, you need to pull it out. You need to socialize it and you need to bring people's voices into the discussion. What did they think about it? What did they like about it? How are they challenging you? What ideas do they have? Then the podcast is not just a podcast, it becomes very much a powerful content tool that we are building global community we're adding in the voices of the people to what we're doing to advance the mission.
• 20:13
  Julie Confer: And I want to create some freedom that you can reimagine what this looks like.
• 20:15
  Julie Confer: Yes, we release three episodes a week. But if you're planning a gala know that you could also create a limited series that is three episodes that you send to all the guests before they arrive sharing stories or brilliant a limited limited series highlighting your mission or historical stories that just lives on your website. So if you've already tuned out and think I cannot upkeep a podcast with all of my 1200 Other things that I'm doing this, this could also be used as a short term really creative project that you could use in a lot of different ways. So just reimagine what you could also do with it.
• 20:51
  Jonathan McCoy: Well, I love this idea that you want to look at it innovatively, because you obviously want to build something that serves what you're trying to accomplish and what your audience would be looking for. But I think there's also a really strong case, that this is not just a marketing tool, you know, this is a donor relations tool. This is a way that you can steward your donors, it's a way that you can tell the story of that. So like, if you think of it only as a marketing thing, you're leaving probably 99% of what's possible on the table. And so I think that I hope this reframes and gives you the Julie's challenge of like really dream of what this could do, and how this could uplift what you're already working on. Because it's so much bigger than just the tactic of a podcast, Okay, with that same train of thought, there's so many nonprofits that have already stepped into this. And I think there's some models we want to lift. And I think, you know, one of them is the Exodus Road, we've mentioned them several times on the podcast, they're really great at how they show up. But they launched a podcast called until all are free. And it's like this platform where they can talk about human trafficking from not just how to get too involved, but also interview thought leaders in the space and also talk to people that are survivors telling their story, what a cool two way communication they're having with people that share the value to eradicate human trafficking.
• 22:04
  Jonathan McCoy: We also have seen new story lean into this, they did a limited series called The Founders lab, you can go find that. But you know, they we talked about them.
• 22:10
  Jonathan McCoy: They're one of the more innovative nonprofits around.
• 22:12
  Jonathan McCoy: And so of course, they would want to equip with kind of a founders mindset of like, what are some hacks and tools if you're trying to start something. So it's really interesting to see how people adapt this based on who their audiences and kind of gives more ideas.
• 22:27
  Becky Endicott: Yeah, another one that I want to lift is Friends of the Earth, they started a great podcast called How to save the planet. And this was really brought about because, and I think it was their third podcast that they put together, but they were trying to socialize and discuss popular stories from the climate movement and just breaking down really complex issues. And so they started this podcast, just kind of exploring solutions to the climate crisis. And I love that the underpinning of these conversations are just that anyone can have an impact, big and small, what a great way to socialize that content and get more people involved in the process.
• 23:05
  Julie Confer: And I mentioned just a minute ago about the story of my friend's innovation project at St. Jude. And it's super fun to find out that they have essentially launched a podcast network on their website. So they're a really good example of someone who's done a limited series. So they have ongoing podcasts that are sharing family stories, but they recently did a five part miniseries about someone whose life that was saved at St. Jude became the youngest American to go to space. And so they did a whole series learning about the full crew, and they let their donors go along on that journey by sharing what that St. Jude kid was going through. And so I just think that's a really cool way to use a limited series to bring your donors along for really exciting things at your mission.
• 23:47
  Becky Endicott: St. Jude is such the gold standard in storytelling, I'm just so impressed by that. But I do think your example is is a great one. And so for anyone that's out there saying like I don't want to keep up with a weekly podcast or a monthly podcast.
• 23:59
  Becky Endicott: It's like just do a short little series. I love Julie suggestion about the gala. But it's like if you have a campaign coming up, wrap a little mini series around that campaign, I think about if you're in healthcare, interview, your CEO, interview, your lead physician interview a patient, you know who's been impacted by this interview, your campaign chair, interview a staff member, or somebody on the front lines delivering the care, can you imagine the richness of that story as it's coming through the lens of so many people who are experiencing the mission differently. And you really start to build the case that it's more than just a campaign.
• 24:40
  Becky Endicott: It's more than just a building.
• 24:40
  Becky Endicott: It's more than just a program.
• 24:43
  Becky Endicott: It's about the people and you're lifting the voices of the people who are either going to be doing the hard work, or receiving the benefit. And what a rich way to warm your audience before you actually start to launch.
• 24:55
  Julie Confer: I would so much rather get a mini podcast series and one of those massive Case for Support Package
• 25:00
  Becky Endicott: like Gosh, right,
• 25:02
  Jonathan McCoy: this is kind of a hack. But there is such a thing as a private podcast to so you don't have to publicly post this. The format can be used in lots of different ways. And that's kind of one of more innovative uses. And so if you're thinking like okay, you guys have convinced me like we need to like look at this space, head over to our website at WWE podcast for good calm. We're going to start curating resources there but we've already listed a really big how to section of how to get started. If you're interested in this. You really want to start thinking through what type of show do you want and What's the equipment, and we've rounded it all up there. So go to WWE podcasts for good calm, and you can find it all and kind of stay up to date as we update those resources as well.
• 25:43
  Julie Confer: And I also just want to throw out there that when we wanted to launch our podcast, I took the class learned got everything set up, probably it only took like a month, we plugged in all of our equipment just a couple of weeks before the launch of our podcast. So don't be intimidated by this, you can make this happen as quickly as you want.
• 26:00
  Julie Confer: It doesn't have to be a super long project. So just know from us, it's super manageable, and you can make it happen.
• 26:06
  Becky Endicott: It was actual insanity. Like how quickly I realized that Julie got on boarded and couldn't figure out what she was doing. And so it really gives me a lot of hope for all of you out there who want to do this because I know a ton of people who've just bought the microphone, and just started recording. And so we believe you can do this, but we're not going to send you out without a really good pro tip. And we want Julie to drop a pro tip every single episode here from the wisdom that she's gleaned. So Julie, the one today it is a one good thing. I
• 26:38
  Julie Confer: feel like we need a noise. Yeah, a little jingle.
• 26:43
  Julie Confer: My one for today that I thought of and I have to quote Marie Forleo this is her quote, not mine. She always says everything is figured out eatable. So kind of everything we've been talking about just take to Google, go to YouTube, go to Udemy you don't need a degree, I did not study this. I did not learn how to be a producer in school. All this can be learned and just take online courses and just start learning and see if this is something that could be a good fit for you or your organization. But truly every part of podcasting is figured out double. And honestly we'll make it a little bit easier. So you don't have to figure so much of it out. Stay along
• 27:15
  Becky Endicott: stay with us. As we go through this series, we're going to be unpacking how to build it, how to launch it, how to pitch yourself if you're not ready to put out a podcast yet or do a little series if you just want to start by dipping your toe in the water by joining somebody else's podcast. We're gonna teach you how to find them and we just want you to thrive so stay tuned. We're so excited about this Friday series. Thanks for tuning in. And being one of those progressive early adopter podcast listeners. We're glad you're here.
• 27:42
  Jonathan McCoy: Thanks for joining us. Today's episode was brought to you by our good friends at auth zero without zero your nonprofit can do more with a login box. Greet prospects and rabid fans of your mission with authenticity simply make it easier for your team to manage data. There's so much at Oxy roll login experience can do is it odd zero.org For more info
• 28:01
  Becky Endicott: if you enjoyed this episode, we know you'll love being part of the we're for good community. It's like our own social network where you can find like minded friends, ask questions, share resources and find inspiration anytime. Sign up today at we are for good.com backslash hello
• 28:17
  Jonathan McCoy: thanks friends