Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #1293 - [Parental Guidance Episode 2] Getting Comfortable Being Uncomfortable: How to Talk to Kids About Consent

Transcript

#1293 - [Parental Guidance Episode 2] Getting Comfortable Being Uncomfortable: How to Talk to Kids About Consent · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Today, the conversation is all about consent, peer pressure and
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: parental Guidance. Season three, Episode two. Welcome to the Happy
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Families Podcast, Real parenting Solutions every Day. This is Australia's
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: most downloaded parenting podcast. We are Justin and Kylie Coulson. Kylie,
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: the long standing struggle that is pushing kids to the edge,
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: according to the primo of Parental Guidance Season three, looking
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: at peer pressure. Yesterday we talked about what was going
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: on here. We've got Amy and Mark, our active parents.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: We've got Nathan and Joe, Ann our traditional parents, our
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  Speaker 1: protech parents, Courtney and John, and our upfront parents, Mark
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  Speaker 1: and Tammy. I want to set the scene for today's conversation.
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  Speaker 1: The challenge was this, have parents been having consent conversations
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  Speaker 1: with their kids? Do they know how to have the
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  Speaker 1: consent conversation? Let's have a listen to what the expert
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  Speaker 1: had to say about it.
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  Speaker 2: For this one, we've brought an extra expert to help
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  Speaker 2: review how you went. Joining us in the parent Lounge
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  Speaker 2: is consent educator Daniel Prince shapeI perhaps we could just
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  Speaker 2: start by explaining the work that you do and why
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  Speaker 2: consent is so important.
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  Speaker 3: I work with young people, young men predominantly across Australia,
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  Speaker 3: helping them make sense of the messages that they get
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  Speaker 3: about consent, respect and sex.
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  Speaker 4: Dan, how big is the problem when it.
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  Speaker 3: Comes to young people? And something that keeps me up
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  Speaker 3: at night is that fifteen to nineteen year old girls
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  Speaker 3: are the biggest victims of sexual assault in our nation.
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  Speaker 3: And the flip side of that very unfortunate coin is
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  Speaker 3: that fifteen to nineteen year old boys are the biggest
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  Speaker 3: perpetrators of sexual violence in our nation. Now, I do
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  Speaker 3: this work because that's not who I believe young boys are.
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  Speaker 3: I don't believe they're wired that way. Something's clearly gone
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  Speaker 3: wrong and how they understand relationship, sex, power, consents. Our
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  Speaker 3: job to help prevent that and help them actually know
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  Speaker 3: what is a healthy relationship.
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  Speaker 1: Before we play anything more from the episode, I just
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  Speaker 1: have to highlight this for any school teachers, any school principles,
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  Speaker 1: anybody who is listening, who is looking for someone to
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  Speaker 1: talk at school about masculinity and helping boys. I do
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  Speaker 1: not know anyone I can recommend more than Dan Prince Pate.
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  Speaker 1: He is one of my favorite people to talk to
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  Speaker 1: about this topic. He's so wise, he's so articulate. I
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  Speaker 1: just love listening to him. I wish we could have
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  Speaker 1: just played the entire episode as the conversation that Dan
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  Speaker 1: had in that room, because he sat there for about
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: an hour and everybody listened with rapt attention to everything
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  Speaker 1: he had to say.
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  Speaker 5: I would have loved to have been in that room.
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  Speaker 5: Like just the small snippets that we got of him
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  Speaker 5: on the show were so punchy.
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  Speaker 1: Totally, let's have it. Listen to what happened with the
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  Speaker 1: protech parents.
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  Speaker 6: Our challenge is to talk to you guys about consent.
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  Speaker 6: You could get consent to touch Dad. Did you ask
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  Speaker 6: him for I didn't, but I married him.
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  Speaker 4: It's fine.
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  Speaker 6: Later on, you might have a girlfriend and you might
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  Speaker 6: want to kiss her, and then you would have to
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  Speaker 6: ask or consent to do that. You would have to
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  Speaker 6: make sure she's comfortable.
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  Speaker 4: Right.
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  Speaker 7: Yeah.
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  Speaker 6: With so many domestic violence cases, I feel like the
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  Speaker 6: responsibility as a parent of two boys is to raise
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  Speaker 6: the boys to be respectful towards not only women, but everybody.
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  Speaker 6: If you've kissed someone before, does that mean you've agreed
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  Speaker 6: to kiss them every time one of you feels like it.
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  Speaker 8: No, it's just permission, Like for example, can I have
• 3:41
  Speaker 8: your consent to film you?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a way of asking.
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  Speaker 6: That's a big one in this house, isn't it.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, that you do not apply. Do your kids like
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  Speaker 4: being on social media? I knew you'd do that.
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  Speaker 6: Yes, they do, they do. We check with the often.
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  Speaker 4: I check weekly.
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  Speaker 6: Actually, do you still like being on my TikTok? Do
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  Speaker 6: you want to do my TikTok?
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  Speaker 9: Yeah?
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  Speaker 2: But maybe they're just trying to say yes because you're
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  Speaker 2: their mom that I want to let you down.
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  Speaker 4: But I don't. In that video, I don't feel like
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  Speaker 4: he really wanted to.
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  Speaker 5: This was actually quite interesting to me, obviously having a
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  Speaker 5: podcast about parenting and family life. Actually we talk about
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  Speaker 5: our kids on the podcast all the time.
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  Speaker 7: We do.
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  Speaker 1: It's called sharing about to.
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  Speaker 5: Say, it's called charingon. But I do believe there's a
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  Speaker 5: really fine line between sharing our children's lives and getting
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  Speaker 5: their consent around it. I know, in the early days,
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  Speaker 5: when they were quite young, we were obviously very free
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  Speaker 5: with the conversations that we shared. We named them that
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  Speaker 5: you could say, named and shamed. But as they've gotten
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  Speaker 5: older and they have their own social media presence, we've
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  Speaker 5: become a lot more guarded about what we share, how
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  Speaker 5: we share it, and for the most part, we're often
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  Speaker 5: very delicate about not naming them.
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  Speaker 1: We're pretty careful about what we disclosed, and if we
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  Speaker 1: do disclose stuff, we always ask permission. Right, Hey, today
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  Speaker 1: on the podcast, guys, we want to record a conversation
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  Speaker 1: about that thing that happened. Are you cool with the
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  Speaker 1: sharing that?
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  Speaker 5: And they'll always listen to the cart at the other
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  Speaker 5: end totally and they do love it. One of the
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  Speaker 5: tricky conversations we had recently on the podcast the daughter involved.
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  Speaker 5: She got in the car and she went straight to
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  Speaker 5: find it.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, what did you say? You told me you were
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  Speaker 1: going to say it. Did you do the right thing
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  Speaker 1: by me?
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  Speaker 5: And I was sitting there with baited breath the whole time,
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  Speaker 5: and she couldn't help it. There was just this massive
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  Speaker 5: grin on her face. And at the end, I said,
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  Speaker 5: did we do okay? Did we keep your identity sufficiently blurred?
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  Speaker 5: And she said yeah, I guess yeah.
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  Speaker 1: So Nick and Sophia are our positivity parents. We haven't
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: really seen or heard much from them. Sofia is in
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  Speaker 1: the I guess what is that a fluorescent green? Lime green?
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: I don't know what color it is, but that's a
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  Speaker 1: pretty good the green dresscription. They have a massive social
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  Speaker 1: media following as well, so it's quite interesting to see
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  Speaker 1: the dynamic playing out here. Really important conversation and something
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  Speaker 1: that research shows is a concern for children. We do
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  Speaker 1: need to be mindful of that, and that is part
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  Speaker 1: of the consent conversation. I'm really glad that they said
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  Speaker 1: and did what they did around that. Let's have a
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  Speaker 1: look at what happened with the traditional parents. This was
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  Speaker 1: a moment.
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  Speaker 9: So what do you think consent is?
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  Speaker 8: Consents like asking permission to do something with the other person.
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  Speaker 4: It's just manage your traditional parents.
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  Speaker 7: We definitely try to protect them from adult themes as
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  Speaker 7: much as possible.
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  Speaker 4: We're not intentionally trying to broach sex at this age.
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  Speaker 9: When you're kissing someone, it's important to check in before
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  Speaker 9: doing something else with them.
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  Speaker 7: I may have a few concerns about the topics.
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  Speaker 4: We'll just have to take it as it comes.
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  Speaker 9: Don't want to talking about the sex.
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  Speaker 4: Doesn't like talking about the sex.
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  Speaker 7: Actually I don't really care, but maybe not with you
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  Speaker 7: there too, and like, well, I don't know.
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  Speaker 4: It's a bit weird.
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  Speaker 1: I love you.
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  Speaker 9: That's how they came to be well, yeah, but you know, check.
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  Speaker 4: Out the kids.
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  Speaker 8: If you kiss someone and they want to do that,
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  Speaker 8: say they sit on a bed, you can stop it.
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  Speaker 4: And she's saying, she said, let us speak.
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  Speaker 8: I go, why are you saying on a bed? And
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  Speaker 8: then they go, oh, I want to do this and
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  Speaker 8: then they go no man and they can walk the
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  Speaker 8: cool dad.
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  Speaker 9: Definitely call your dad.
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  Speaker 4: I like that.
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  Speaker 9: Definitely called dad because dad's got a shotgun and a shovel.
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  Speaker 4: Wow. How old are your daughters again? Twelve and fourteen?
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  Speaker 6: Yeah.
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  Speaker 10: I think that maybe you start to have some type
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  Speaker 10: of conversation around consent and sex because it would be
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  Speaker 10: around them, just so they don't feel so awkward.
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  Speaker 4: It was awkward. Yeah, I'm not going to lie.
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  Speaker 7: I don't really think anyone's one hundred percent comfortable having
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  Speaker 7: a full blown chat about sex or their sex life
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  Speaker 7: with their children.
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  Speaker 1: Oh you're thinking what I'm thinking. Okay, we need to
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  Speaker 1: take a break. After the break though, there is a
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  Speaker 1: lot to cover about what just happened. All right, Kylie.
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  Speaker 1: You and I we have six daughters. We have had
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  Speaker 1: many conversations with our children about consent. They are ongoing.
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  Speaker 1: I am an ambassador for the federal government's consent can't
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  Speaker 1: Wait campaign? Can I just I really, I really love
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  Speaker 1: all the families on the show, and I want to
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  Speaker 1: honor and respect them and really celebrate their willingness to
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  Speaker 1: get on a national TV show and put their parent
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  Speaker 1: in front and center in the spotlight. I do need
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  Speaker 1: to just pick on Nathan for a moment in twenty
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  Speaker 1: twenty five. I believe that we have got to get
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  Speaker 1: past this. I've got a gun and a shovel mentality
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  Speaker 1: about our daughters dating. It's something that really belongs last century,
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  Speaker 1: or even the century before. What we've got to do
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  Speaker 1: instead is empower our children to look forward to what
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  Speaker 1: is good about dating and give them the resources and
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  Speaker 1: the tools that they need to navigate what can sometimes
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  Speaker 1: be quite tricky and can be dangerous, some things can
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  Speaker 1: cast a long shadow into the rest of their lives.
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  Speaker 1: But if we give them those tools, then they can
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  Speaker 1: navigate these these situations positively and have really great experiences.
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  Speaker 1: And I think we want to be celebrating the positive
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  Speaker 1: rather than coming out with guns and shovels.
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  Speaker 5: So Nathan and Joanne are alone in.
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  Speaker 1: This though, Oh no, not at all.
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  Speaker 5: And what I have seen too many times is parents
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  Speaker 5: unwilling to have what they can say it are as
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  Speaker 5: uncomfortable discussions and conversations with their children because it just
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  Speaker 5: it feels yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and let's be really clear. I know some people
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  Speaker 1: were sort of shrugging at them and going, come on, like,
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  Speaker 1: let's be real. Your children are going to whatever. Everyone
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  Speaker 1: knows their kids. And when I look at Nathan, Joanne
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  Speaker 1: and their family and their kids, my take on this
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  Speaker 1: is that in that family, they can probably push these
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  Speaker 1: conversations out a little bit longer than many other families
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  Speaker 1: because of the way they've protected their kids and made
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  Speaker 1: their family safe.
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  Speaker 5: I don't know. I'm thinking about how their youngest daughter
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  Speaker 5: responded to the AI bot in the first episode, and
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  Speaker 5: she is a curious kid.
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  Speaker 10: I'm dating someone.
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  Speaker 8: Oh, you're dating someone.
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  Speaker 7: You're really gonna hate what I have to say next?
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  Speaker 3: WHI on?
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  Speaker 4: Okay, the person I'm dating ISAA.
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  Speaker 5: And the challenge we have when we don't empower our
• 11:06
  Speaker 5: children with the adequate information to curb their curiosity. If
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  Speaker 5: we're not giving it to them, they're going to go
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  Speaker 5: somewhere else.
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  Speaker 8: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And my other concern is if your kids are at school,
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: they are going to be exposed to stuff. Now again,
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  Speaker 1: I would anticipate, based on what I'm seeing in this
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  Speaker 1: family that these are the kinds of girls who'll say, oh,
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  Speaker 1: that's not for me, and I'll just walk away wonderful,
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  Speaker 1: But they will still be exposed and the conversations do
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  Speaker 1: need to be had. So while I'm saying every family
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  Speaker 1: is different, and some families you can probably push it
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  Speaker 1: back a bit, I'm not saying you can avoid it,
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  Speaker 1: and certainly with girls twelve and fourteen, these are conversations
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  Speaker 1: that need to happen. So what I'd like to do
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  Speaker 1: for the rest of this episode, with maybe just one
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  Speaker 1: more clip from Dan prince Pay a little bit later,
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  Speaker 1: is I want to talk about how we recommend managing
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  Speaker 1: these conversations, the best approach, the questions that you need
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  Speaker 1: to be prepared for, how specific you need to be,
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: and why being open and honest is best. I want
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  Speaker 1: to start, though, with the question, what's the right age
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  Speaker 1: to begin having these conversations? You know what my favorite
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: answer is to to this question before too have every
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: important conversation, that you need to have every tricky discussion
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  Speaker 1: before the age of two.
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  Speaker 5: You know, it sounds so stupid, honestly, it sounds really stupid,
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  Speaker 5: but I remember when I first found out that I
• 12:28
  Speaker 5: was pregnant, and I.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: Didn't didn't know that was coming, but go ahead, yep,
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  Speaker 1: sor I mean, I knew that I need to rethink
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  Speaker 1: what I was saying. I mean, I didn't know that
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  Speaker 1: you were going to talk about that. I definitely knew
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: that you were going to find out that you were pregnant.
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  Speaker 1: I was heavily involved in that let's move on.
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  Speaker 5: And I remember having conversations with my belly in anticipation
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  Speaker 5: of this beautiful, miracle child that was going to come
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  Speaker 5: into our lives, and you know, those late feeds where
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  Speaker 5: I would talk to her and share my hopes and
• 13:02
  Speaker 5: dreams for her and all of those kinds of things.
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  Speaker 5: And it was just such a natural thing for me
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  Speaker 5: to do, as I wanted to fill her heart, her mind,
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  Speaker 5: and soul with all the goodness that I could. And
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  Speaker 5: So while you kind of say tongue in cheek, I
• 13:21
  Speaker 5: actually think there's so much power in us having these
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  Speaker 5: really tricky conversations with them. And it's like practice, right,
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  Speaker 5: We're practicing with someone who can't talk back pretty much.
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  Speaker 1: And it also makes you more comfortable having the conversations,
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: and this whole idea of early and often early and
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  Speaker 1: often early and often I've been repeating it like a
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  Speaker 1: mantra for years here on this podcast. These conversations are
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  Speaker 1: not one offs, like it's not one and done. It's
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  Speaker 1: not well. We've had the consent conversation, We've had the
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: appropriation conversation, we've had the drugs conversation. That's not how
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  Speaker 1: it works. That's why over the last few weeks we've
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: been emphasizing the new shift we've made in our family.
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  Speaker 1: We've made it way too late. We needed to do
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: this a decade ago or more. But every Sunday now
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  Speaker 1: we have a fifteen to twenty minute talk that often
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: goes for forty five to sixty minutes because the kids
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  Speaker 1: are so talkative about tricky topics, about sometimes big things
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: and sometimes little things, about emotions or about intimacy, or
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: about consent, or about what to do when a boy
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: is putting pressure on you or sending you messages that
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: you don't want, or about hope, yeah, yeah, yeah, what
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: to look forward to. We had a conversation recently just
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: about the principles of well being. We've had conversations with
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: the kids about screens, but having these conversations regularly, in
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: both formal and informal ways, so our Sunday morning conversations
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: they're set in stone. The kids know what's happening. It's
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: an appointment, it's locked and loaded. But there's also all
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: those informal ones, like the day that one of our
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: kids climbed into the car after school and looked at
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: me and said, Dad, can we talk about STIs? And
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: it's like, we need to have this conversation. If you're
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: asking me, I'd rather you talk to me about it
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: than talk to Google about it or talk to YouTube
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: about it. We need to talk about this together. And
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: so what I mean when I say have all of
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: these conversations before the age of two is get used
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: to having the discussions and open your mouth and talk
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: about it, even if you're uncomfortable, because the kids are curious,
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: even if they say I don't want to talk about it.
• 15:21
  Speaker 5: What I've been really grateful for is we have had
• 15:25
  Speaker 5: numerous conversations with our girls where they've come home and
• 15:28
  Speaker 5: shared challenges that their friends are experiencing and their friends
• 15:34
  Speaker 5: don't feel comfortable going to their parents.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: There's one that I have not told you about that.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: One of our kids told us, you do know, really? Yeah,
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: so I haven't told you about it, but you know.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: So a little while ago, one of our kids came
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: to me and said, I haven't told mom, and I
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: don't think mom should know. But one of my friends,
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: age fifteen, thinks that she's having a baby. She thinks
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: she's pregnant, and she can't talk to her parents about it.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: What do I do?
• 16:00
  Speaker 5: Yeah?
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  Speaker 1: And so having these the consequence of not having these conversations,
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: not having the trust in the relationship, can be that
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: your children can find themselves in some very challenging circumstances
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: and not know where to go for help.
• 16:14
  Speaker 5: And then you knew that. The biggest challenge around that
• 16:20
  Speaker 5: is that they're receiving advice from other fifteen year olds
• 16:25
  Speaker 5: right who don't have the maturity or the understanding of
• 16:29
  Speaker 5: the implications of decisions made without someone with greater foresight
• 16:36
  Speaker 5: and experience and unconditional love for their child.
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: I want to make light of what's just happened, even
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: though what we're talking about is a very serious thing.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: I can't believe that I've decided to tell you that
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: I know about this thing on a podcast all this
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: time after finding out having kept it from you for
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: so long, only to find out that you know about
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: it and you didn't tell me about it. Maybe we
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: need to work on how communication a bit more as well. Fundamentally,
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: these conversations need to be simple, they need to be clear,
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: they need to be direct. Kids just want us to
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: be straight shooters. Nothing should be misconstrued, be open and honest.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: I'm a really big fan of the three e's. Explore,
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: Explain empower.
• 17:14
  Speaker 5: It never ceases to amaze me. We're looking for a
• 17:16
  Speaker 5: complicated answer.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: And it doesn't need to be.
• 17:19
  Speaker 5: It actually doesn't need to be. And these three e's
• 17:22
  Speaker 5: are so powerful. Every conversation we have with our kids
• 17:26
  Speaker 5: ultimately comes back.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: To where are you up to? Here's what matters to us,
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: How we're going to fix this? Yeah, yep, explore explain
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: the power. Let's give Dan Prince pay the last word on.
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: A humanize that.
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it can be uncomfortable. I would just say that
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: one of the things that I think is just a
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: general good rule for everybody is like we need to
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: get comfortable getting uncomfortable, because I wouldn't want any young
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: person feeling like their desires or their curiosity is shameful.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: How good is that?
• 17:52
  Speaker 7: All right?
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: We need to wrap it up there. We keep on
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: going over time. This is such a fun conversation. I mean,
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: I just love what Parental Guidance offers parents as a resource. Yes,
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: I know that it's a reality TV entertainment, but it
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: is such a valuable resource. It's such a privilege to
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: be on the show. Tomorrow we're going to focus on
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: sending explicit text messages, sexting, sending nerds, whatever else you
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: would like to talk about it as it is happening.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: We may prefer to think that it isn't happening, but
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: tomorrow we're going to have the uncomfortable conversation about kids
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: sharing naked pictures online. We really appreciate Justin rolland from
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: Bridge Media. He's the producer of the podcast. Craig Bruce
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: is our executive producer, and Mim Hammond's provides research and
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: admin support. More information and more resources about making your
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: family happier are available at Happy families dot com dot
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: au and if you'd like to catch up on Parental
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: Guidance seasons one, two, and three, you can stream them
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: now at nine Now. Episode three is back next Monday nights,