Latest / Vermont Talks / Jiving with James Lockridge and Bob Colquhoun at BIG HEAVY WORLD

Transcript

Jiving with James Lockridge and Bob Colquhoun at BIG HEAVY WORLD · Vermont Talks

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's new?
• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Eight Oh two this is Becca Hamot and you're listening to Burlington talks.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: The Burlington talks podcast may include graphic or explicit content.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Listener discretion is advised today.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: I'm here at big heavy world talking with James Lockridge and Bob Cahoon.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: James is co founder and executive director of big heavy world.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: He's also the co founder and manager of one Oh 5.9 FM the radiator.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Besides that, he's also the founder and executive producer of the rocket shop.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Big heavy world's local music radio hour.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Bob Cahoun is joining us at big heavy world.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: He also manages the radio station one Oh 5.9 FM the radiator.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: James, thank you so much for being on the show today.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: And Bob, welcome.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Can you guys please tell me a bit about big heavy world?
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: A big heavy world started in 1996 it started in a band house where uh, there was uh, uh, Xen published and the internet was new and I was a graphic designer and wanted to play with the new medium.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: So we started a website about local music.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: And from the start it sorta started sprouting into other directions.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: Like we would host, um, big concerts with many bands at the nightclubs downtown.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: We started playing with streaming when the technology was brand new.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: Um, this was all in the mid nineties.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: So, uh, over time when we had hundreds and hundreds of CDs collected from the bands we were interacting with, we realized that we were an archive as well and kept rolling into becoming a record label and a radio station.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: And our, um, our office has become operationally the kind of music office you would find in other big States or cities that, um, that want to support music from maybe an economic perspective.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: So looking at the website, that makes a lot of sense that you guys started online.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: Now it's all starting to come together to me how this all came about and how it was built.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: So can you tell me a bit more about the radio station?
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: Um, from the start of us having fun and all these different directions supporting local music, we always wanted, because there wasn't one, we wanted a radio station that played a lot of local music and we didn't have an opportunity to apply for an FCC license until the year 2002, which was, you know, several years into us being active.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: And in 2000, the government invited applications for what are called low power FM licenses.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: There are a hundred watt licenses.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: And we understood like our friend Lee Anderson did that, uh, cooperative applications were stronger, more competitive.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: So we work together and submitted an application, uh, Lee as a proprietor of radio bean and light club, lamp shop and twin Oh two and day.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: And four years later we got a letter that said, you can go ahead and build a radio station and if it works, we'll put a license in your hand.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: So in 2007, we had built the station and it worked and we had a license and we were, you know, being a community radio station and, and the, uh, the, the gist of it from the very start was it was a community station meant for creative people to have fun in.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: So it took you 10 years, you started the idea came together in 97 and then 10 years later you had a functioning radio station in 2007.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: We started big heavy in 1996 and in 2007, we, we went on air with a radio station in the fall and uh, in between community DJs, local DJs, we automate music by Vermont bands and there's thousands and thousands of tracks in there and they play randomly.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: And like the rest of big, heavy world, they're inclusive of every genre and you skill level and, and so the station is, is meant to be an a and I think it does an okay job representative of the community itself and the music community.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: I've listened to quite a bit of one Oh five nine I put it on my first preset on my radio in the car.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: And I love just the range of different genres.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: I found a few songs that were just so adorable that I had to go like look them up when I got home cause there were so cute.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: But there's this huge wide range.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: Some of it's kind of punk and some of it's bluegrass and it's great that it's all and it's all from all artists
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: on, on the station.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: When you're hearing the station run itself without a DJ on the mic.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: It's local music.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: It's for my base music.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: Our station could go next to the dictionary Decker initiative.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: Eclectic, because we really do jump around and that's part of the charm of it.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: And I love eclectic music.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: I love old rock, I love bluegrass, I love everything.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: So for me it's great.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: That's such a fun thing to find.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: And the fact that it's supporting someone local and local artists just, it's so great.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: I've made me so happy to hear it.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: So is there any defining line between the radiator and big heavy world or is it all one entity?
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: Big heavy world is the, the organization that all these different projects happen within and the radiator is one of our projects, one of our programs.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: Um, it's, it's, you know, with our, our archive is, uh, a big project in its right.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: Our tiny museum is its own project.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: Um, you know, there's, there's different branches of what we do that, you know, are kinda little operations in themselves and the radio stations like that.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: It's such a cool space.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: Would you talk people through the space so that since they can't see it, could you tell them all the different things?
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: Just a little more detail?
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: Oh boy.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: How much time do we have?
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: As long as you want to talk about.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: We're
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: surrounded by chairs that didn't cost more than$7 or were picked up free by the road.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: We work with equipment that was supported by community contributions.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: Um, everything from the workstations to the musical instruments to the radio station is made possible by supporters.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: Um, either direct donations from local musicians or grants from organizations like IBM, um, or ARP or the NEA.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: And, um, as you enter the space, it's kind of a wide open space that's used for our musical artists when they join us on our radio program.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: Um, and for the community drum and group, somebody akata to practice with like a dozen people and some pretty big drums a couple of times a week.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: Um, and as you work your way into the office and through that big, large open space, um, you find a corner with some electronic gear, like a Mac workstations for producing little spots for the radio station and where we do our archiving.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: There's some posters on the wall from events we've done over the years.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: Uh, TV in the big part of the office over the couches showing photos that we take every week during our local music radio show.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: They're the artists that visit us.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: The big room is, got a circle of instruments around it that are open for high schoolers to come in on Wednesdays and use as a drop in sort of clubhouse.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: And they're available to musicians that sometimes come in late at night after DJs to have practice here.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: Um, and as you scoot past this big open area, you'll find the radio station on the right, which is, uh, a workstation and equipment like you'd expect in a radio station studio.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: It's under a red light that makes it look like it's on fire.
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: The radio stations name is called the radiator.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: And behind the radio DJs area is a sign that says two 42.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: It was part of a bigger sign from a couple of years ago when we started politicking for the city to reinstate two, four, two main, the teen center, um, and Memorial auditorium.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: And, and for the city to choose to fix up Memorial rather than bulldoze it.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: And it used to have signs on either side of the two 42 that made it say safe to four to main.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: So that was up at a art hop event a couple of years ago and we're still working and at this point pretty successfully on, on that, that advocacy behind that is an artist studio.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: And behind that is a big closet that has a lock on it that has thousands of CDs that we've collected over the last 20 something years all by Vermont artists, about 5,000 CDs that we've cataloged and we're making available for people to see what Vermont music history we've collected.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: And uh, on the other side of the room from all that, the radio station and the gallery, the, the studio is a very, very tiny museum with artifacts and interactive exhibits that are about Vermont music history.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: So there's this, you know, a few things going on in there, but there's pictures on the wall, uh, uh, about four monitors and interactive iPad and an interactive computer and a bunch of stands with acrylic tops that have artifacts in them, stuff on the walls.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: It's a really impressive space when you walk in here.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: I had no idea all of these different things were going to be in the same room.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: It's a little overwhelming with how cool it is to be honest.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: Can you tell me a little more about the two four, two documentary you're making?
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: I'm a local film maker.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: Bill Semon is, uh, filming and editing interviews.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: And at this point, there's close to 70 people that he spoken with.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: Um, the big, heavy world volunteers have transcribed all the interviews and bill has gone through the transcriptions and chosen the, the compelling parts and the big heavy crew has edited those parts from the main interviews.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: And given those clips to bill to build the movie from the community has donated a lot of, uh, photography and video and posters from throughout two, four, two mains 30 year history two 42 was a teen center that was established when Bernie Sanders was a mayor here in the mid 1980s and it was a city program that was programmed by the youth that attended to for, to, and from the start.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: They were programming live music for themselves and they carried that forward for 30 years, making two, four, two main, the longest running all ages punk rock venue in the country.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: And two for two was closed by the city in 2016 because the city had neglected maintenance on the building and it had become unsafe.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: And the city acknowledged that we became, uh, active in a public conversation to save two, four to Maine in 2016 when the city was talking at in an exploratory with UVM about bulldozing Memorial auditorium and building a hockey rink instead.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: And we were emphatically against that, especially since it wasn't a public driven choice.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: And we participated in some community building and the interest in saving Memorial auditorium spread widely enough that the city became engaged enough to have citywide meetings about it.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: We hosted a gentrification workshop and had a professor speak about memorials, historicity and, and the tone of our politics throughout this has always been supportive of the city making the right decision rather than one that generated animosity anywhere.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: And so, um, ultimately the advocacy resulted in the mayor choosing to support, uh, youth programs being reinstated in the space that two 42 occupied, uh, and the film will reflect the experience that people had at two 42 when they were teenagers.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: Um, so there's younger people who went to two 42 more recently and there's grownups who are, you know, old like me who talk about what it was like in the 80s.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: And um, a lot of statements have been made in the interviews about how meaningful, having a space that feels safe and gives you an opportunity for expression and opens your mind to opportunities and career paths and art forms that you wouldn't have exposure to without that environment available to you.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: So as a social resource, two, four, two was very important to a lot of people and the city, you know, sorta needs to rebuild that kind of resource for itself.
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: Um, and the, the film helps people understand the facts of two 42, but also what it represented, um, as a commitment to people who are young and young adults.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: I got to go to a, I think two different shows when I was in my late teens at two 42 and I was so amazed with the place, with the venue, with the community vibe.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: And it was amazing to me cause I went to a, I think it was a metal show.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: So the kids are screaming, they're expressing all of this anger and just all, all sorts of emotions and everyone's just smiling and everyone was so happy and positive and just collaborating in such a great way and totally open to whatever art form that you wanted to express.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: It was just such a great place.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: So I'm really glad to hear that you're continuing the spirit and that this is going to come back in some form even if it's not the two for two.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: We remember,
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: we hope it will be, but uh, you know, it'll carry the spirit forward.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: Whatever we end up, you know, achieving.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: Would you like to talk about the rocket shop a little
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: bit?
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: Did Bob talk about rocket chap?
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: Bob can talk about the rocket shot cause Bob's sort of taken over production of the rocket of rocket shop.
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: So rocket chump radio hour is an hour long and send an name, of course it's an hour long radio show with try to have two guests.
• 15:12
  Speaker 4: Artists come in an evening and it's really an interview and live performance show.
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: So they both get about half an hour.
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: Ends, ends up being about three songs with some talking when our host Tom Procter is doing a wonderful job, current host, Tom Procter, and we've, we've, we've had many hosts over the years.
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: Um, and really it's, it's, it's another way of trying to preserve this history, bringing the artists in to play some music, but to talk about it and where it's come from and what it means to them and, and, and introduce a lot of them kind of to the world.
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: We have some people who come in and they've been there, established artists, their fans are going to show up to listen to the podcast, but we also get people who haven't recorded a single thing.
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: And this is the first, first piece of recorded music that they have.
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: So it's a wide range of just how long people have been active and where they are in their career.
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: Or for some of them it's a hobby.
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: Um, and some of them, it's a side job kind of thing.
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: So that's sort of what rocket shop is and kind of, it's a reason to exist.
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: And it too is a podcast now and which is great because it gives people a way to go back and listen.
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: And unfortunately we've lost some of the older episodes just because through time podcasting wasn't really as big a thing and when it started, so they were really over the radio and that was it.
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: It was ephemeral.
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: It's gone.
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: But now we've really started to try to keep that going in terms of being part of the archive too.
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: So when did the rocket shop start at rocket shop?
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: Did I just say, Oh no, I said rocket shop radio hour is its official name.
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: We usually just call it rocket shop ourselves cause you know, for, for brevity, um, when was the first episode?
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: I wasn't involved in the beginning.
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: Like I said, I'd kinda took it over.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: Rocket shop started when the station launched.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: I was the host originally and there were a number of hosts over time.
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: Um, lot of, uh,
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: college age DJs who really, really dug into the job and you know, did a good job.
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: And uh, currently Tom Procter is the host and he's been dedicated for a few years now.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: It's really, really doing a good job of um, researching our guests before they come and being prepared with very thoughtful questions.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: I think, I think everybody is appreciated his, you know, his approach to, um,
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: exploring personalities and music with people who come on the show.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've definitely enjoyed, I've listened to a few different episodes, the rocket shop and I love his questions.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: I've kind of been using Tom Procter.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: I've been using Thomas kind of a guidepost for myself.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: Like this is the kind of interview that I should be doing.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: I want it to sound that natural and he sounds so comfortable and just like, he knows these people really well already, which is amazing to me.
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: That's nice.
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: We give them that comfortable weird thing.
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: The chair over there, I was just going to point that out too.
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah, he's comfortable.
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: He gets it, gets comfy in there, kind of we, we joke, it's like we have our own little house concert here.
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: It, the number of bands I've seen live in this space, in our previous spaces is amazing.
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: And every Wednesday night, you know, we don't have one tonight, the day before Thanksgiving, but you know, that's, that's okay.
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: That's kind of a normal pause in the show.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: So two different artists a week, almost every single week.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: So that's more than a hundred bands a year.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: Art is there a lot of repeats?
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: No, that's the amazing thing about music in, you know, not just Burlington, but Vermont to me and, and artists who have come through, who have either come from other locations or been other places, have really said that there's a musical community here that bigger cities don't have.
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: They have bands, but the, but the musical community of bands and the number of them.
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: And so many of them are spawned off of each other or they fill in, you know, you go to a concert here and you're liable to see somebody from another band showing up.
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: Hey.
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: And that's my little thing that says, normally I have to start the recording on rocket shot.
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: I will stop my alarm right now.
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: Um, we don't want to forget the record.
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: Um, so these artists fill in for each other all the time and it's really a neat thing to see cause it's not that way in every location.
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: Some places are a little more cutthroat in business, like,
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: right, like they're actually competing a little bit for it.
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: I guess for the limited resources in today's world with YouTube and Facebook and all this, there's so many avenues.
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: It's, they're all struggling with the same thing, which is if I want to make a living in this, how do I do it?
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: And it's getting less and less traditional.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: It's become, I find the collaboration and that's probably what's so great about Burlington that really makes you a lot stronger than if you're trying to basic, I dunno, strong arm, the bands around you.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: If you're willing to collaborate and work with them, that just makes you stronger.
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: As an artist.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: You're, you're going to meet more people, you're going to have more opportunities.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: If you're not,
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: and I think some of it's just a continuation of what you hear people talk about.
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: Vermont in general, having a little more sense of community maybe because it's a smaller state and that spreads out into the musical side of things too.
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: So you know it's, it's, it's part of where we are lets this happen.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: I work with a drummer named Rustin Fettig and N name of his band is escaping me right now.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: But he said something that really, it rang true with me.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: He said no matter what in Burlington, no matter how bad you are, you're not going to get booed off stage because the community is just so supportive of you.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: If you're trying, you're not going to be ridiculed.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: And I it, I don't think that happens in Boston.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: I think people do get booed off stage in Boston and I'm sure that happens in other major cities as well.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: This is great cause it's this, this whole, it's a nonprofit organization.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: It's not a business entity.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: It's a nonprofit.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: So this whole organization is really, it's so great to find out about and hear about in the community cause it kind of represents everything that Burlington is already in an entity that you can come to and come into an environment and it feels like Burlington and in here it's so amazing.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: Nice.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: That's really nice.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: Um, the doors are open for people to volunteer here.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: You know, if, if you like archiving, if you like being social and helping with outreach.
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: I feel like engineering is, you know, everything that we do is done by people who, you know, have a passion one way or another for getting involved and supporting local music and doing fun stuff for them.
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: There's artistic things people can get involved in and there's technical things.
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: Running a radio station is very technical so somebody who's interested in that, we would love some more hands.
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: But if you are a great graphic designer and you want to make some posters for us for events, that's great too.
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: You know, there's all sorts of things out there that people can get involved in.
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: And some of it's, Hey, I'm here to help set up and I'm going to listen to some music, which is also fun.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: Just being out.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: And if you're going to go and listen to music anyway, come help out, why not?
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: So would each of you tell me your Burlington origin story?
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: How long have you been here?
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: Should I start?
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: You is, yes.
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: When did you show up in Burlington?
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: Uh, in an ongoing way.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: In 1989 I would visit when I was in school.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: I went to school at Lyndon state college in Northern Vermont university, Linden now, uh, in the mid eighties.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: And I would come to town, go to the nightclubs for music boarder.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: And uh, but I moved to town in 1989 when I transferred into UVM.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: And, uh, since then I think I hitchhiked out of town a couple of times thinking I'd experiment with relocating.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: And Burlington brought me right back home and I spent five years, uh, raising my daughter with my sweetie Victoria in Starks borough.
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: Mmm.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: Wanting kiddo to have a little bit of farm life in her childhood.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: And when she got to the point where it was helpful to have things to do,
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: Mmm.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: Besides race, pet biggies and duckies we came back to town.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: And so apart from five years, I've been in town since 1989
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: great to hear.
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: So I guess my first experience of Burlington goes back a little farther than Jim's.
• 24:30
  Speaker 4: I had an aunt and uncle and cousin who lived here actually in the same neighborhood that I live now, uh, in the late seventies, early eighties.
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: So I remember coming up here as a kid and going to Ben and Jerry's and Ryden ferry and doing all sorts of kid Vermont things that people are still doing today, which is great.
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: Um, and then they moved back out West and I went to school down in Virginia college in Virginia and happened to IBM, happened to come through town in Virginia and was interviewing for summer internships.
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: And I had done a little research and they had a little thing that said they had a location in Burlington, Vermont.
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: I said, well, how about Burlington?
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: That sounds like an interesting place for the summer.
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: And that was 1990 and then I came back and started working here in 91 after I graduated and kind of like Jim.
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: I've been here pretty much ever since.
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: So yeah, I just, this place speaks to me if I feel
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: [inaudible]
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: feel like I found a spot that I fit in.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: I feel the same way about being here at, and it's funny because I grew up in Vermont, but I never really felt like I belonged in the tiny little town I grew up in, and I talked about this with Jesse, this, this whole city is just such a wonderful place that I don't think anyone can come here and feel like they don't belong, feel like they don't have a place here.
• 26:02
  Speaker 4: There's all sorts of opportunities for people for different, different things, you know?
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: I mean there's music, but there's all sorts of people who are here because of the outdoors and the mountains and the Lake and all sorts of other things.
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: Artistic or not.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, businesses.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: I've heard multiple tech company owners tell me how great Burlington is for tech, which is really interesting because it's such a great place for music and it's such a great place for so many other things.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: I don't know what we don't have going for us to be honest.
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: Traffic jams, we don't have enough, a lot of those and that's okay.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: I can live without traffic.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: Champs just going up and down Shelburne road that's as congested as it ever needs to get.
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: Rush hour lasts about 25 minutes.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the worst that can ever be.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: You're pretty much, you don't get stuck in traffic for two hours.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: Like I hear people outside of Georgia, Atlanta, Georgia,
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: Boston, Denver, Atlanta, San Francisco, LA, all those big cities.
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: We're making good use of that time that we have to making good art, making these good community projects.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: So you've both been here for at least three decades, it sounds like at least three decades.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: Has you seen anything change really drastically in the time that you've been here?
• 27:31
  Speaker 4: Well, I think all the technology and what's interesting to me at concerts and shows, um, is that cell phones, I mean I'm, nobody had cell phones and if they did, it was some gigantic bag phone that didn't take pictures and videos.
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: So no one was really using them at shows.
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: And now the way people are documenting music personally is, is a huge difference just in the music world that that's different.
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: And you know, there's pros and cons to it.
• 28:06
  Speaker 4: Sometimes it can take people out of an experience personally, but there are so many things that were happening in the sixties, seventies, 80s and into the 90s were probably, I guess probably most of the nineties that, um, is gone other than in people's memory and what they've written down.
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: I mean, there was some recording of things of shows when there was a concerted effort to do it, but a lot of shows happened and don't have any evidence and a lot of bands that were around town that people just remember the name and remember hearing about them.
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: But they never really maybe recorded a lot of stuff.
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: So, you know, we're not losing that now because people are out there documenting it.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: That's true.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: You can still look up cell phone footage from shows from 2000 to now on YouTube.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: So yeah, that's, that's actually a really good thing.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: In some ways it kind of frustrates me as a person going to watch the show because I don't want to see the light in front of my face from someone else's cell phone.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: But that, that's a great way to look at it.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: I've never really thought about it that way.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: That's true.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: There never would have been a record of most of the shows I've been to if people weren't doing that.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: So, Jim, what have you seen change?
• 29:32
  Speaker 4: Oh, that's kind of tough.
• 29:37
  Speaker 4: I, uh, I'm sort of a a who doesn't
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: pay that much attention to nuance, you know, and slow change over time.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: So I'm, I don't have that all computed as an answer for you.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: But you know, when we started in the mid nineties, there was, uh, a very, um, active, uh, live music scene.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: It was, uh, the middle of, I think what people chose to call on alternative rock emergence, you know, um, way back when and because there was, uh, no real actual way to describe how every band had their own unique sound, but everybody got along and everybody would sorta, um, atomize and come back together as super groups for one off performances.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: And you know, there was a real vitality to the live music downtown and I think there's been sort of a dissipation of that particular energy over time.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: Um, there's a lot of music out there and it sorta floats around and it's its own smaller communities these days with less interaction, you know, the, the, the quality is the same or better.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: The diversity is the same or better.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: That's just the, the community dynamic has altered a little bit.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: And I think that, um, there may be an influence on that from the way that the Burlington community is what I'm speaking about.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: Um, uh, chooses to, um, identify and support art or not.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: Um, music has been on the margins of purposeful support, um, by the city itself.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: Uh, there's been compression and diminishment of opportunities for life music, uh, rules put in place that were burdens on live music venues that wanted to have all ages shows.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: Um, uh, a very, uh, critical minded oversight of live music performance spaces, which for the most part were bars at the, you know, over time.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: And also, you know, marginally marginalization in part because, uh, city leaders have, in my experience, uh, assumed that music as a community and as an industry supports itself.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: So it, it hasn't been a conscious thought that, uh, systems or resources might be generated to support musicians as an industry locally.
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: Like there have been created for the visual arts in Burlington,
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: which is interesting since Bernie created two for two so long ago that it's almost like they forgot at some point that they needed to support these things.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: That's a very direct,
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: and I would say, accurate way of framing this situation.
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: So they need to be reminded,
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: you know, we, we, we don't have a continuum of opportunities for young people to engage with, uh, performing arts, music, et cetera.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: You know, it's, it's, they're either in high school or they're 21 plus and have jobs and do what they want, but you know, from, from until they're 21, there's all the doors are shut for participating in live music and acclimating to being, uh, you know, a participant in community oriented culture and two 42 main, which closed in 2016 was, you know, the rare and possibly only real, uh, environment for that to be fostered.
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: It's a real loss at what you're doing here is so great though.
• 33:42
  Speaker 4: You're definitely continuing the spirit.
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: But yeah, that's, that's definitely something the community needs to be vocal about and just tell our fearless leaders that we really do care about this.
• 33:54
  Speaker 4: And we obviously do because of the community.
• 33:56
  Speaker 4: The music community in particular is extremely strong and it's so collaborative and it in general is just such a great area for music.
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: So yeah, we, we definitely need to be vocal and get the word out at the community involved in this a little more
• 34:18
  Speaker 5: [inaudible]
• 34:18
  Speaker 4: cat.
• 34:18
  Speaker 4: One more, one more question.
• 34:21
  Speaker 4: Was there ever a time when you guys were struggling as a, as a organization?
• 34:27
  Speaker 4: W was there ever a dark moment for big, heavy world?
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: Well, like all nonprofits, we're always reaching for, for funding.
• 34:41
  Speaker 4: I mean there's no two ways about it.
• 34:43
  Speaker 4: I mean, it, it's, you know, there are very few nonprofits that are truly financially secure.
• 34:50
  Speaker 4: Those are few and far between.
• 34:53
  Speaker 4: Um, and we're like most of the rest of them that are were, you know, making ends meet or at least get them close enough that those ends can see each other at times.
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: Um, that, that's really, that's, that's the continual struggle of, of a nonprofit.
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: And Jim will talk more about it, but I think the other piece is, is support fro at the both the, you know, say the city level, but also the state level in terms of there isn't an official music office for Burlington or Vermont like there are in other States.
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: So it was back to what Jim was talking about in terms of, uh, the government and by extension the people recognizing that music is yet another industry that draws people to that.
• 35:44
  Speaker 4: Kendra this people does and can draw more people to this state.
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: Just like food.
• 35:50
  Speaker 4: And you have the whole Vermont food industry, which is supported in huge part by the government.
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: Just as a, as an example of one industry where people are coming here for, for music and some of these big festivals are in themselves sell funding.
• 36:05
  Speaker 4: But how those happen a couple of times a year, there's a lot of other things going on in other reasons for people to come to Burlington.
• 36:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah they may come for the beer, but if there's beer and music and food and all these other things together is really what makes it strong.
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: And yeah, our strong culture that we have in rolling, but it's all pieces to that puzzle of becoming a strong community in terms of, there's all sorts of branches of, of industries out there.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: Our roots are in Burlington and it's where we learned what the potential for building community is and celebrating Vermont's original music.
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: And you know, doing the work we do is fulfilling working with the local volunteers that come into the office.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: But our mission is statewide and we have for the duration of our existence, reached out as best we could with our capacity as a grassroots organization to other parts of the States.
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: We work with people who organize arts communities and other parts of the States on specific projects.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: We coordinate a statewide festival, a participatory inclusive festival that's international called make music day, happens every June 21st.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: And there's community organizers across the state that we work with to bring music to the public on that day, like 120 countries do around the world.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: We brought that to the state of Vermont, um, officially.
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: And, uh, we reach out to towns across the state for support and have been very happy to find support from different corners of the state that way.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: Um, we, you know, you, you called it, uh, out of something like dark moments and it's like we've been hand to mouth for 23 something years and it's not ever a dark moment.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: It's always, you know, we're, this is a room full of committed optimists and we're proud of the work that's been done so far and we want Vermont to be proud of the musical legacy that it's creating and we're just stewarding.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: So it's, it's always a pleasure to describe our projects and open the door to support in different directions.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: And, uh, ultimately I think we've proven that the support is there when we have the ability to communicate what it is we're trying to accomplish.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: So, you know, we've, we, you know, our, our rent's paid through December and we're working on January, you know, so it's, it's always like that and that's just a, it's a lifestyle I guess.
• 38:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a labor of love.
• 38:56
  Speaker 4: This is, this is so great.
• 38:57
  Speaker 4: And I think there's still a lot of unrealized potential for this to be a bigger drive and, you know, back to money back into the Vermont economy, right?
• 39:10
  Speaker 4: I mean, look at what a great location this is.
• 39:13
  Speaker 4: And for, you know, you could imagine out-of-state artists wanting to come to recording studios in Vermont because such, it's a, it's such a great place.
• 39:22
  Speaker 4: And that does happen some, but it sure could happen a lot more.
• 39:26
  Speaker 4: You know, you talked to any of the studio owners around here?
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: None.
• 39:29
  Speaker 4: I don't think any of them are.
• 39:31
  Speaker 4: I would hazard a guess.
• 39:32
  Speaker 4: None of them are booked solid all year around and you know, one probably in September, there's a lot more going on.
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: But if the state was helping to promote that as an industry more, and that's just a, you know, there's all sorts of facets.
• 39:45
  Speaker 4: It's not just shows.
• 39:47
  Speaker 4: There's recording studios, there's the sound production companies who are the ones who are behind the scenes putting this show on.
• 39:54
  Speaker 4: There's a lot of stuff that goes on in the music industry, which like Jim said, you know, sometimes I think there's a view of it's self-supporting, but maybe that, I think that's true at the upper echelon.
• 40:07
  Speaker 4: It's just like artists, the top tier people are making a lot of money.
• 40:13
  Speaker 4: The 99% aren't.
• 40:16
  Speaker 4: Yup.
• 40:16
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 40:16
  Speaker 4: And it's the same thing at all levels of that.
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: Sure.
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: If you go to Capitol records in LA, probably doing fine, but smaller studios, they're there.
• 40:29
  Speaker 4: Like everything else there, they're working to make it work.
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: And early next year we'll be publishing the data and the analysis of a survey of the music industry in the state that's ongoing.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: Now the survey will close in a couple of days, um, but we've had close to a couple of hundred respondents to a, a very lengthy survey that's gathered a lot of economic data and that will feed into a statewide economic research project that the Vermont creative network is, uh, accomplishing at the moment.
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: That's an initiative of the, the state arts council.
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: And we're going to end up with a short list of priorities that we understand should be given attention by legislators or stakeholders who care about, um, music as a sector in our economy.
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: Um, and this is a survey that's being conducted and completed from all over the state.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: So we'll learn in the artist's own words as much as with the metrics, um, what the sense of need is, you know, in particular.
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 41:38
  Speaker 4: And I think sometimes too, there's a, unlike other, you know, you said music industry, sometimes people don't think of music as an industry or a business like farming or just as an example because they think they look at music and I think, well that's just fun and people are doing it because it's fun and they're having fun.
• 41:58
  Speaker 4: Well, yes they are having fun, but somebody who is trying to making a living at this, it's as much a business as it is fun and you know, it can be tough and I think it drives people out of music.
• 42:12
  Speaker 4: Um, but we really shouldn't look at it any different than any other business.
• 42:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 42:17
  Speaker 4: I think there's this inherent bias towards it because it's, it's, you know, I don't know people, people just have a different impression of what being a musician is.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I definitely agree with that.
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: There's definitely a bias.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: They see it as somewhat frivolous.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: It's the same.
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: I can see it in the art community too in Burlington.
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: We do support it pretty well in a lot of other places though are in music, do get lumped together and it's just kind of this, they stopped teaching children art and music in school.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: They see it as frivolous, which I find insane.
• 42:53
  Speaker 4: Oh, and look at what, look at what music programs are in schools today too.
• 42:57
  Speaker 4: They're very traditional and you know, you have some, I think a lot of music teachers these days are better at bringing in modern music, but still when kids pick out an instrument, do any of them get to pick from an electric guitar, a bass or a drum kit that I've never, I've never heard of a school that starts out that way.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: I am one of very few kids I've ever heard of.
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: I started playing electric bass at 11 years old, but I also had a Berkeley taught basest as my music teacher who was encouraging me
• 43:32
  Speaker 4: another, another business slash industry they could use more support is public education.
• 43:37
  Speaker 4: Yes, no doubt about that.
• 43:41
  Speaker 4: That's key.
• 43:41
  Speaker 4: You know, keep the teachers who are enthusiastic.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: Yes, exactly.
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: That I was so blessed with my music teachers and the one I was just speaking about, the poor man had to work at two different schools and drive back and forth because our little schools couldn't afford to pay him full time.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: So he had to work two different jobs.
• 44:00
  Speaker 4: First thing, cutting things.
• 44:02
  Speaker 4: The music program, Meriden, the art program, right?
• 44:04
  Speaker 4: Yup,
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: yep.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: They just stick them in a closet, which it's so sad.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: Oh, okay.
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: So how can people get involved?
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: How can people help you guys out?
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: Oh gosh.
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: Go to a big heavy world.com and explore the different projects you'll find there.
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: And you know, if anything's interesting, even if you just want to come hang out when we have a radio show and there's bands in here and just, you know, sort of dip your toe in and since the flavor of the place do that, uh, the contact form on the website go straight to me and I'd give you directions and welcome you warmly to investigate.
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: Also anybody who is even just curious if not looking for opportunities to be a radio DJ.
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: It's a, it's a wide open opportunity here to drop in and take an hour or two hour slot every week, um, for yourself and do what you'd like on one Oh five nine FM.
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: The radiator and I would point out too, it's
• 44:59
  Speaker 4: not just music that DJs have done and are doing it.
• 45:03
  Speaker 4: They're all sorts of shows.
• 45:05
  Speaker 4: This is community radio.
• 45:06
  Speaker 4: It doesn't have to be music if you want to come on and do you know we have someone does a sport show.
• 45:11
  Speaker 4: If you want to come and do a movie review show or you want to talk about, I don't know, you're super fascinated by the weather and you want to do a show about the weather.
• 45:21
  Speaker 4: Come on and teach, teach the rest of us, you know, so it's anything that is, I mean there are FTC rules, let's put it that way.
• 45:29
  Speaker 4: You can't, you can't come on and talk about literally anything but any subject that you could have a conversation in public with somebody about.
• 45:40
  Speaker 4: You can come and talk about it on the radio really.
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: So if you can make a podcast about it, you can come on the radiator.
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: Yes, we expect you to show up any day now.
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: Well thank you both so much for being on this show.
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: This has been wonderful.
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: No, thank you for being interested.
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: It's really nice.
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: This is fun too.
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: We love getting the word out.
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: Yup.
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: That's the whole goals.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: Let everyone know about the place.
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: Thank you
• 46:10
  Speaker 6: [inaudible].
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening to the podcast.
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: Please reach out toJames@bigheavyworld.com please support one Oh 5.9 FM the radiator.
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: It's a really awesome place and it's really great cause it's check it out.
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: Please support local music.
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: Hit that subscribe button for me and head over to my Facebook page, Burlington talks, and just share this episode with your friends and family for me so he can get the word out there and let everyone know about big, heavy world and all the cool people that I have been talking to.
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much.
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: Have a great day.
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: That's what's new in the eight Oh two.