Latest / Beyond the Sermon / Responding to God's Voice: Conversation

Transcript

Responding to God's Voice: Conversation · Beyond the Sermon

0:00
You're listening to Beyond the Sermon, the podcast of First
0:03
Methodist Church in Collingswood, NJ.
0:06
Our goal is to not only share our sermons, but to go beyond
0:09
the sermon in conversations about what we're learning and
0:11
what God is doing in our lives and our community.
0:15
You can find out more information about our church at
0:17
fumccollingswood.org. Thanks for joining us for this
0:21
conversation. This Sunday's sermon, there's a
0:26
emphasis from the get go on the difference between listen it
0:31
hearing and listening than listening and doing.
0:34
Yeah. And you connected it with
0:36
parenthood and us being children or as parents can relate to
0:41
this. And you try to clarify that you
0:44
weren't a perfect child and that, you know, if you allowed
0:48
your parents to share a story, that maybe we would get some
0:52
insight into a younger Scott. But even if you won't let them
0:57
share a story, could you tell us a story about doing a handstand
1:03
in the kitchen on a stool? Well, first of all, it's not a
1:10
handstand. I don't know what the proper
1:13
term would be. But yeah, I was probably, I
1:22
don't know, 14 or 15 maybe. And at that point in life, I
1:28
could do like a plank where I could like balance on something
1:35
and my elbows would kind of be like at my hips, OK.
1:38
And like. It would.
1:40
Be the only thing. And so I was doing that.
1:43
I think it was like New Year's Eve day or something, doing that
1:49
in the kitchen on this little stool we had in the kitchen that
1:55
could roll around. OK.
1:58
But when you put weight on it, the base would go down and.
2:02
It wouldn't slide OK. So somehow it didn't quite click
2:08
into position when I put my weight onto it, and as I was
2:13
balancing on it, it suddenly clicked into position.
2:17
I lost my balance landed on my the left side of my forehead was
2:25
the first thing that hit the floor, denting the vinyl
2:29
flooring in our kitchen with my head full on concussion hospital
2:36
visit later and there you. Go.
2:38
That's the story. Were you told not to do that?
2:40
I mean, I'm sure I was told that this probably wasn't my best
2:44
idea, and for many years afterwards I was reminded that
2:47
it was not my best idea. How did you hear about that
2:51
story? I can't disclose my sources.
2:54
What? But moving on.
2:59
Unbelievable. You invented calisthenics.
3:03
That's fine. Incredible.
3:05
That's pretty much it. And as you continued on in the
3:09
sermon, in the story, Philip is talking with the Ethiopian
3:14
eunuch in the carriage. And it's like a conversational
3:18
teaching moment where he's not on a stage.
3:22
He's not, you know, sitting around with a bunch of students
3:25
and The Ethiopians, one of the students.
3:27
But the Ethiopian has questions, Philip has some answers, and
3:31
it's this dialogue back and forth over the Scriptures,
3:34
specifically the prophet of Isaiah and how Jesus fulfills
3:39
the prophecy. What conversation that you've
3:43
had had a large impact on you? I can't.
3:49
Remember exactly when it was though.
3:53
So you've just gotten back from the hospital after doing that
3:56
stunt in the kitchen? Sometime late in my college
4:03
career, I was trying to figure out exactly what it was that
4:11
Jesus was saying to me. And I remember one day after
4:17
Chapel I I went after kind of had stayed a while praying and
4:25
after most people had left the auditorium there.
4:29
And when talked with the speaker from that day, who was his name
4:35
was Hubert Harriman. He was at that time the
4:38
president of World Gospel Mission.
4:42
Then he had come to Asbury to speak one day, and I don't
4:47
remember even necessarily what he preached on, but at that time
4:53
I was trying to wrestle through. I was trying to wrestle through
4:57
what calling looked like and what surrendering to that
5:03
calling was. I was wrestling with if I was
5:06
really being called to the mission field or if it just
5:11
sounded like a good idea at that time and had a good conversation
5:16
with him and he prayed with me. And, you know, just asking God
5:21
to give clarity. I was trying to think exactly
5:26
how he said it, but he said something to me to the effect of
5:32
basically, he's never regretted saying yes to what he thought
5:36
was the voice of Jesus. It's like it wasn't this big
5:42
exposition of Scripture or something like Bible verse that
5:47
suddenly made everything make sense, but it was a reframing
5:53
kind of conversation for me where it shifted things from
5:59
being, you know, I need to figure out exactly what God's
6:05
saying before I can say yes to. I need to say yes and trust that
6:13
God will keep working things out.
6:15
Yeah, I. Think that's the one that comes
6:18
to my mind well. Do you think that you wouldn't
6:23
be where you are now because of that conversation?
6:26
Like without that conversation, it's probably pretty fair.
6:30
Yeah, because even I think like with how that stuck with you,
6:34
the decisions you made reflecting back on that even
6:39
down the road or decisions that I'm sure were pivotal and your
6:44
walk or in ministry. Oh yeah, for sure.
6:47
Yeah. I'm thinking that was like
6:48
towards the end of my junior year and so then it was that
6:53
summer I did an internship and really felt the call but was
6:59
already wrestling with it before that.
7:02
Yours kind of sparked the I feel like I I say it all the time,
7:07
but maybe not in podcast format. The when I was first reached out
7:11
about a youth ministry job and I was determined to rollerblade at
7:16
Sonic and have Rebecca be my sugar Mama until I felt an
7:21
international calling. Still the call the rollerblading
7:26
and sugar Mama part. But I got a call from SPRC chair
7:31
at the church and who went to my home church for many, many years
7:36
and was a huge figure in my life and.
7:39
Had gone to my home church when I was growing up, before he went
7:44
to Yeah, when you were growing. Up he likes to jump churches
7:48
I'll see him this weekend at the men's retreat.
7:50
So I'll tell him that, but he he asked if I knew him because he
7:56
he young adults, especially that time.
7:58
I mean, now it's a little bit better.
8:01
Christian young adults in South Jersey, really hard to find.
8:04
Sure. And so he was like, you know, if
8:06
you know anybody that'd be interested.
8:08
And I know that each church is looking for different things and
8:11
have different expectations for the youth pastors.
8:14
So I asked him, I was like, you know, what are you looking for?
8:18
And as he described it, I jokingly said, are you
8:21
describing the job position? Are you describing me?
8:24
And then he was like, well, would you ever consider?
8:27
And I wanted to take my words backs so quickly.
8:35
I regret that so much. Well, I don't even do.
8:37
This day because you're still stuck with me.
8:40
At the moment. And yeah, so like I was like, I
8:46
need to think about this. Pray about.
8:48
So I was praying a lot. Me and Rebecca were praying a
8:50
lot, seeking wise counsel from those that we trusted and 2
8:55
phone calls stuck out important context that all of the prayer,
9:00
all of the wise counsel that these two are just pieces of but
9:05
in pivotal important pieces. Sure, because I think alone one
9:11
of them doesn't sound the best, but one of them was with my
9:15
friends Dan and Ashland, Christian couple, friend of
9:18
ours, and they were on the phone with us and they're like, you
9:24
know, Jeremy, because I'm just going on this back and forth of
9:27
like, why would God send me 5 minutes from my house?
9:29
You know, like all of this stuff, we're ready to go
9:31
anywhere. All that They're like, why are
9:34
you treating a local mission like most people treat an
9:37
international mission like the Lord?
9:40
Why would you send me there? How is this going to work out?
9:43
How's that going to work out? But I was so ready to move my
9:46
life anywhere else in the world. And I was like, oh, I might be
9:51
fighting God's will because it wasn't how I anticipated him
9:54
using me. And so that was a pivotal piece.
9:59
And then at the time, I would say the most influential pastor
10:05
pastoral figure in my life was Pastor Mickey.
10:08
The pastor at Rebecca's family's church was talking to him and,
10:13
you know, very at length, fruitful conversation.
10:17
And unlike the human aspect, not the like spiritual call aspect
10:23
of it because he'd known Ron, the lead pastor of the church
10:27
that I would be applying to. He was like, he went through all
10:32
of the accolades and incredible things that he loves about Ron
10:36
character wise, preaching wise, success wise.
10:40
And it's like your worst case scenario is that you get 2
10:44
incredible years with a mentor that is virtually impossible to
10:49
like. You don't really get to pick who
10:51
it's kind of what kind of where you are.
10:54
And so that those two pieces were kind of the tipping point
10:58
out of all the other things that would normally come along with
11:00
the discerning process. And so, yeah, I don't think I
11:04
would. I know I would not be here.
11:07
I wouldn't have made those choices without those two
11:09
conversations. Sure, probably.
11:12
And then I met Scott, and he didn't say almost anything the
11:15
first time I met him. I don't know if you remember.
11:18
I remember we were sitting at just slipped in my mind, yeah.
11:23
It's like a Italian restaurant and they had a penne, penne
11:27
pasta on top of pizza or ziti. They had ziti pizza and it was
11:32
all right. It should have been better.
11:35
But yeah, I remember. Yeah.
11:37
You and Ron and Ken and like that conversation.
11:40
And then I think even before then, I met with Ron
11:44
individually and I learned so much from that conversation
11:48
because the way he asks, like deep, at least in the in the
11:54
interviewing process, like deep theological questions.
11:59
And after you answer and like, in my mind, I'm like, my
12:04
theology is like, I say the wrong answer and like, this is
12:07
done and over with and I got all worked up for nothing.
12:10
And he gives you no inkling of whether he agrees or disagrees
12:14
with what you just shared and then just moves on to the next
12:17
really intense, deep theological question.
12:20
And afterwards, I was like, I flubbed it.
12:22
I flubbed it like, there's like, he gave me no reaction.
12:25
Like he must have not been satisfied.
12:27
And so I learned many things in that little couple week period,
12:32
very pivotal conversations. Like the difference between a
12:35
youth pastor and a youth director.
12:37
Yes, that was another great conversation with Yeah.
12:40
And yet now I do need her. No, yeah, I haven't thought
12:46
about that in a while. But but when I'm like helping
12:50
those discern youth ministry or figure it out, we have that
12:53
conversation because it is. It is pivotal.
12:56
I can tell you 100% you pastor our youth.
12:59
Oh, I know I I was going to say I almost pastor so much that I
13:03
don't even think of the directing side, but like we have
13:07
the events and we're organizing and we're doing things and so
13:09
there's directing happening. So we we just shared both things
13:12
that from listening to wisdom and then following through with
13:19
sure where that wisdom LED us. You made the separation of like
13:25
communal call versus individual call.
13:28
I don't think you may have used that term, but you're talking
13:30
about there's things that were called to follow as Christians
13:36
as like we're all called to follow certain things and then
13:39
there are individual things in which we're called to do with
13:44
that. I have been in Christian circles
13:48
or met with individuals where they see Scripture as the only
13:56
authority that can lead to action, where they say I know
14:02
what to do in every single moment strictly based off
14:06
Scripture. And they go to Scripture.
14:09
And if you hang out with them long enough, you notice the
14:13
Scriptures that they tend to focus in on.
14:16
And it's not usually a well-rounded picture of what
14:20
we're called to in Scripture. And it got me thinking of the
14:24
Wesleyan Quadrilateral. Big fancy word, yeah.
14:28
Seminary, Steve. God's definitely going to
14:30
explain for us, and I was wondering if you could touch on
14:35
how those four pieces play in what we're called to do as
14:40
community. Yeah, so the the Wesleyan
14:44
Quadrilateral doesn't actually come from Wesley.
14:47
Let's just start there real quick.
14:50
This was a Wesley Scholar's interpretation of how Wesley did
14:59
theology, which if you know anything about church history,
15:03
there, there are some people who say, well, Wesley wasn't really
15:06
a theologian because he didn't sit down and write a systematic
15:11
theology, right? He was just, he was always out
15:14
there preaching and being with the people and healing and
15:18
organizing bands and stuff. He was, and they say this in
15:22
kind of like a derogatory kind of way.
15:24
He was just a practical theologian.
15:27
Like he he only did theology as it helped him actually do
15:31
ministry. As if that's a bad thing, right?
15:35
Actually doing this stuff. Right, right.
15:37
And you know, his theology then flowing out of actual lived
15:41
ministry with people and that kind of stuff.
15:45
Anyway, so as the United Methodist Church was being
15:48
established through a merger of several denominations, yeah,
15:52
yeah. What are the four?
15:54
He said this is this is how we as Methodists should do theology
16:01
quadrilateral. So if you know geometry, a
16:04
quadrilateral, 4 sided shape, blah blah blah.
16:07
AKA A. Square or a rectangle or a
16:10
rectangle or. All squares are rectangles.
16:13
Not all rectangles are squares. Even a trapezoid you could say
16:16
though. There's four things, Scott.
16:20
Let's get to the four things I'm regretting letting you explain.
16:23
It I mean you, you open the door.
16:26
So 4 things, scripture, tradition, reason and
16:33
experience, those are the four things that should shape our
16:40
theological thinking, which I actually agree with, right.
16:46
And when if you look at Wesley's theology and you'll see that
16:53
those are all present. Now the, the trouble comes when
16:57
you look at those four things and say all four of those things
17:02
should be equally weighted in our theology.
17:07
And then even how you just define those four things because
17:11
it's amazing, you know, we have this penchant to define words
17:15
however best fits what we're already trying to do with them.
17:18
The part I agree with, though, is that these four should inform
17:25
our theology. However scripture has to be
17:28
primary, right? And if I don't know how you can
17:31
read Wesley and not come down on that point that for him,
17:37
Scripture was primary and for us, Scripture should be primary.
17:43
Now the, the, the other side within most Protestant
17:47
traditions would say, but it's not that Scripture's primary,
17:51
it's scripture alone, right? And so that's that's where the
17:56
tension comes. But as as Wesleyan's, we can use
18:00
the quadrilateral kind of think of it as like a three legged
18:03
stool, right? You've got the seat.
18:06
That's most important part of a stool, right, is, is the seat.
18:10
And so that's scripture. But then you've got three other
18:14
supporting things, one being tradition.
18:18
What has the church historically said about whatever it is we're
18:24
thinking about? You know, how has that tradition
18:26
been passed down through the church all the way to us?
18:31
What does our reason say? What's what's logic say?
18:34
Because God made us as logical, rational creatures.
18:39
And so to ignore that for the sake of somehow positing
18:45
Scriptural claims that might even be, when they're plucked
18:50
out of their context, contradictory to one another,
18:52
You know, we can use our reason to theologically think through
18:57
some of those things. So Scripture, tradition, reason,
19:01
and then experience. And that's the one that gets us
19:04
in trouble today because today we want to say, well, it's my
19:10
experience. You know, my experience should
19:13
have just as much weight in this conversation as Scripture and
19:17
what the church has said for 2000 years and logic and reason.
19:22
But what Wesley meant when he was talking about experience was
19:26
the experience of Christians broadly, you know, in different
19:33
places at different times. It's very closely linked to
19:37
tradition. But it's not quite so
19:41
formalized. It's not quite so formalized,
19:43
right? It's, but it's, you know, as we
19:46
read through the testimonies and biographies of Christians who
19:51
have come before, what do we see these things lived out and
19:55
experienced in their own lives? And so, so that's that's the
20:00
four Scripture, tradition, logic, reason and experience.
20:05
I always find the scripture alone when I think as an
20:10
argument at first. Listen, it's like obviously word
20:13
of God, what else do you need? But even in the sense of like,
20:19
if you didn't live in that time and culture or understand what
20:23
was happening in Greek, Roman life, how you read it and how
20:27
the how, like when it was written, who it was written to,
20:32
not necessarily all of who it was written for.
20:36
You lose the intention behind the words because of how your
20:39
culture effects how you even read.
20:43
Excuse me, those words. I think that's one side of it,
20:45
but the other side of it is that we can't actually read Scripture
20:51
without it passing through our lenses and filters of what we
20:56
already have preconceived in our minds and in our theologies and
21:01
that kind of stuff. And so to say, scripture alone
21:05
makes it sound like you can somehow ignore all that.
21:08
We can just read the the plain reading of Scripture.
21:13
But so much of Scripture isn't just plain and simple.
21:17
It's it's been shaped by the church's theology, it's been
21:22
shaped by different people's interpretations.
21:25
And to pretend that we can come to Scripture without those
21:30
filters in place is is disingenuous.
21:35
Yeah, even. Especially when you're reading
21:37
not in the original text, right? When you're reading any
21:40
translation, sure, then there's already slight interpretations
21:44
and things going on right in the part that you're reading.
21:47
And what I find interesting as we look at that more
21:53
well-rounded picture is then it's like, OK, at what point do
21:57
you either not consider it Scripture or at what point do
22:02
you believe that the Holy Spirit stopped speaking to people?
22:06
Because then it's OK? Well, then what if someone says
22:11
Pharisees and Sadducees Scripture alone, right?
22:14
This isn't in the Torah. This isn't in the holy books.
22:17
What he's saying is new and different.
22:20
Therefore it can't be from God. And then it's like, OK, And then
22:25
if the Spirit is speaking and it's OK, well, you can make that
22:28
argument for Jesus, but then what about Paul, right?
22:32
And then we trust that to be Scripture and the Spirit
22:34
speaking in God. So and Peter and John and Jude
22:38
and James. Yeah.
22:39
So then you and then you go, yeah, that's why I think it's so
22:42
important, as you clarified with the like communal experience of
22:47
of Christians all over the world throughout time and throughout
22:50
also kind of incorporates tradition of like where has God
22:56
led and spoken to his people overall, instead of the
23:01
assumption that I got the unique only special different message
23:06
from God and everyone else is wrong because of my individual
23:11
experience. Yeah, yeah.
23:14
I mean, we've seen throughout Christian history where that has
23:17
led to dangerous things, especially depending on
23:20
influence and effect. Yeah, and one of my favorite
23:23
things, because I'm a nerd, one of my favorite things to read
23:29
about is the development of Christian theology within the
23:34
intellectual context that it grew up because it's so
23:41
interesting as we look at the early church, which, you know,
23:46
if if you haven't looked around lately, we don't live in the
23:50
Roman Empire. The way they were thinking, the
23:53
things they were thinking about as Scripture was written in the
23:56
New Testament, looks very different than it does here in
24:03
America, which, however you want to argue it, Christian beliefs
24:09
were a significant part of the founding of our country and the
24:14
people who came to our country and the ideas they brought with
24:19
them. And so to sit here in 2026 in in
24:25
a country that was founded with strong religious Christian
24:30
values is going to look very different than, you know, being
24:35
part of this minority group within a global empire.
24:43
And so just all those different things.
24:45
And you know, the the reformers who were active in, you know,
24:50
around 1500, like Luther and Calvin and those guys, they were
24:56
all doing theology within a very specific context.
25:01
You. Know they had the the the
25:03
primary picture in their mind of a ruler was a king.
25:07
And that's going to shape the way you do theology, the way you
25:10
think about God. Oh, I can take it from there
25:15
because it's what I'm studying and and it's something that I
25:17
never realized. So like essentially the
25:20
Reformations led to the Enlightenment period where it's
25:27
the we can now question those in authority, whether it be church
25:31
authority, whether it be the state authority, governments
25:36
authority over certain ideas that everyone just takes for
25:39
granted. And this is how it is and how
25:40
it's always been. And so then there's this this
25:43
bigger questioning of authority, which we see a lot now.
25:47
And I thought that was a newer thing.
25:48
Not really. But like you can see the roots
25:50
of it on a on a bigger level happening then.
25:55
And then you have like it goes. Up until that point, if, if the
26:00
leader said it, in that case the Pope, then that was given almost
26:06
as maybe even more. That was given as much weight.
26:11
Yeah. Yeah.
26:12
So. And, and even with governments,
26:15
King makes a decree. That's how it is from here on
26:17
out, right? Yeah.
26:18
And so to see that shift and then how that affects the
26:22
church. And OK, now we're going science
26:25
and trying to be reasonable and, and being reasonable and
26:30
finding, quote UN quote, objective truth.
26:34
That is how we find fulfillment and purpose and these things
26:38
we're finding we don't believe agrees with the Bible.
26:41
And then you have all these groups of, well, it does agree
26:44
or the Bible's no longer needed or like all these fights.
26:48
And then after that happens, then you get like the reactions
26:52
to those movements and theologies and then reactions to
26:56
the. So then you start seeing like
26:59
and and that's what like was hurt is hurting is hurting.
27:01
My head is that like the belief that our individual experience
27:07
is should be above what scripture says?
27:11
You can trace back even that general thought or theology back
27:17
and forth and see what things were reacting to and theologies
27:21
and times that it was reacting to all the way back to the
27:24
Reformation. And it's not, it may feel like a
27:28
newer thing or a newer concept, but to see the howls and whys
27:33
people started going in these different directions, it's
27:36
interesting. It hurts my head a lot,
27:38
especially remembering all the names and time frames and all
27:41
that kind of stuff. But it's stuff that like I
27:43
thought like, oh, you know, we're in the age of anti
27:46
authority. We're in the age of, you know,
27:50
putting ourselves above scripture.
27:52
Like this is a modern issue happening in the past.
27:56
I mean, at first I thought it was just in the past couple
27:59
decades and then I was like in the 60s, yeah.
28:01
And then since the 60s and I was like, Oh my gosh, you have this
28:04
going back. And and, you know, maybe it was
28:07
more of a minority view, more of a niche view in certain areas
28:10
and just cause globalization now where we have access to thought
28:14
and thinkers and from all over the world, it's more accessible
28:18
and and broadened. But yeah, I, I think it's really
28:22
important as we navigate our time together as the body and as
28:28
we navigate scriptures and also as we navigate others that are a
28:33
part of the body, but not a part of this church or the
28:36
denomination that we may be a part of.
28:39
That we can, you know, have more empathy, focus on the cores of
28:44
the faith, and also be open to learning from their tradition or
28:51
their theology because it's, it's rarely a out of nowhere.
28:55
You're talking about craziness over here.
28:58
I don't know how you got over there, but now we can't even
29:00
have a conversation about it. Like usually these things have
29:03
been developed somewhere over time and their reasons.
29:09
Whether yeah. And that's why it's so important
29:11
to be so very clear on what those core primary issues are,
29:17
right? Like the divinity of Jesus and,
29:21
you know, the holiness of God. Because when we're strong on
29:26
those things, when we agree to agree on those things, then the
29:30
things on the edges we can have more grace for, right?
29:33
Yeah, the secondary issue and the tertiary issue.
29:37
The best place for dialogue. I was on Facebook the other day
29:41
and someone, someone was talking about getting back to the cores
29:46
of the faith and agreeing on that.
29:48
And they had mentioned, you know, repenting of sins and at
29:53
one point in their in their list of things on the resurrection of
29:56
Jesus. And I commented and I was like,
29:59
I agree. But also even with that
30:02
language, I would appreciate clarification because I have met
30:06
people that, you know, repentance of sins.
30:10
Yeah. But here's this long list of
30:12
sins that Jesus and Scripture talks about that I don't
30:15
consider sins. So I'm not repenting of that
30:18
stuff. But like if I murder someone,
30:22
I'll give in on that one. And also at the resurrection.
30:26
I know people that say that they believe in the resurrection of
30:29
Jesus, but they don't believe in the bodily resurrection of
30:33
Jesus. And so it's like in spirit he
30:36
continued on and that kind of stuff.
30:39
And so even that language that that may be surprising to some
30:43
of our listeners are really like, Oh yeah, obviously
30:45
resurrection of Jesus, repent of sins.
30:47
Like we must agree. And you think that you're kind
30:50
of on the same page, same. Language.
30:53
You talk about completely different things.
30:55
Can be, can be drastically different and the implications
30:59
of those differences and how they affect our goals and
31:02
ministry, what we're doing as the.
31:04
Yeah, I feel like sometimes we're almost repenting of
31:07
feeling guilty instead of repenting over actual sentence.
31:13
And maybe I'll stop there because maybe I'm going to use
31:15
that for Wednesday or last night.
31:18
If you're listening to this on Thursday, I I appreciate your
31:21
clarification. And I know that in your studies
31:25
and preparation for the sermon, you had found some parallels
31:32
with Phillip and the Ethiopian eunuch to this Emmaus Rhodes
31:38
story. And I was curious if you wanted
31:40
to share some of those things that.
31:44
Yeah, it just. It hit me as I was spending time
31:48
in this passage how how much similarity there is between this
31:57
story and the story of Jesus on the road to Emmaus.
32:00
And that I think this is something Luke does a fair bit
32:04
of in his gospel, but also in a between his gospel and Acts.
32:10
He's he's repeating some things or drawing things up in a very
32:15
parallel way so that we can see the connection between the two.
32:20
And so if you're not familiar with the story of Jesus on the
32:24
road to Emmaus, it's the day he was resurrected from the dead
32:28
that very first Easter. And he is walking on the road to
32:33
Emmaus, comes across these two believers who had been there,
32:38
asks them, you know, what they're doing, What are they
32:41
talking about as they travel? They tell him, you know, don't
32:45
even know what's been going on. Have you been living under a
32:50
rock? And he says what things and they
32:53
tell him and, and then he he begins to explain to them all
32:58
through the Scriptures how they all point to Jesus.
33:01
They and they don't know it's Jesus.
33:03
They're kept from seeing that it is.
33:05
And eventually they get to their home village of Emmaus.
33:10
Jesus pretends like he's going to go a little further.
33:12
They invite him in. And as he's breaking the bread
33:15
and a shared meal with them, their eyes are open.
33:19
They realize it's Jesus. He disappears from their sight,
33:24
and they rush back to Jerusalem. With this story to share.
33:28
And as I was reading through Acts 8 in these verses 26 to 40,
33:34
I just couldn't help but see but these parallels of between
33:38
Philip and Jesus, they both come up on a conversation already
33:43
happening right on the road to Emmaus.
33:46
It's this couple talking on the road between Jerusalem and Gaza.
33:52
This, this Ethiopian. He's having this conversation
33:55
essentially with God. He's reading the scriptures and
33:57
trying to understand. They both ask a question to
34:01
start the conversation, right? Phillip asks, do you understand
34:05
what you're reading? Jesus comes, says, hey, what are
34:07
you talking about, you know? And then they both proceed to
34:13
proclaim the good news of Jesus through the scriptures.
34:18
All right, Philip starts from that Isaiah 53 passage that the
34:22
Ethiopian was reading and Jesus, you know, it says, I think it
34:26
says they're beginning from the law just walks them through all
34:31
of it. Talk about mind blowing Bible
34:34
conversation. Like you imagine that one after
34:39
the conversation, there's a sacrament, there's a Sacramento
34:42
part of it the The Ethiopians baptized and in Emmaus we have
34:48
this picture of the Last Supper or or communion, you know, as
34:53
the bread. The bread is broken and then
34:56
given to them just like Jesus had done at the Last Supper.
35:01
And then both of, I guess you could call him the main
35:05
character, but like Jesus and Philip, they're both whisked
35:09
away to some other place. And the people they were talking
35:13
to carry the message back to wherever it is.
35:21
And so to me, what I was saying, it didn't really fit in the the
35:28
sermon I was preaching on Sunday.
35:30
But what I was saying to me was like, just in case you thought
35:34
this was just Jesus, this is what we can do too.
35:39
Like this is how God can use us as well.
35:42
And whatever this power of the spirit that came on all
35:48
believers at Pentecost, we can now live the same way that Jesus
35:54
lived. And yes, I just, it just hit me.
35:59
What are you preaching on next week?
36:01
Oh, next week we move into our Deny Yourself series.
36:05
Well, that's our conversation for today, but that doesn't mean
36:08
the conversation is over. We'd love to hear your thoughts
36:11
on these topics as well. To ask a question about anything
36:14
we've discussed in this episode or to join the conversation, you
36:17
can head over to fumccollingswood.org/podcast.
36:22
Thanks for being part of this conversation.