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Mom Started Dating Again Too Soon & I Fell Back in Love with My Ex · Therapy Thursday with Ellen K

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: But emotionally, I'm still feeling the love from this man
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  Speaker 1: that I had been married to, who is my husband,
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: was my husband who I had divorced, and I feel
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: like I'm in an uncharted territory, you know, talking constantly.
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  Speaker 1: We've laughed more in the last three months than we
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  Speaker 1: did in the last like final three years of our marriage.
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  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, this is weird. The problem now is I'm
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  Speaker 1: engaged to an incredible human being.
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  Speaker 2: Everybody ready for some therapy? Oh yeah, hey, Sarah Dash
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  Speaker 2: you are the licensed one of the three of us. Yes,
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  Speaker 2: So how many different emotions are there that a human
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  Speaker 2: can feel?
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  Speaker 3: God, I've never thought about that before this amazing question.
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  Speaker 3: I would almost like this is going to sound like
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  Speaker 3: such a non answer, but like infinite because like within anger,
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  Speaker 3: there's so many different colors of anger, okay, And how
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  Speaker 3: I experience anger is likely not exactly.
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  Speaker 2: How you experience got it?
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  Speaker 4: And I would think that so we never feel like
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  Speaker 4: one just one thing at a time, Like maybe you're
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  Speaker 4: having a great morning, but something makes you angry. The
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  Speaker 4: part of the morning that was great is then mixing
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  Speaker 4: into your anger exactly.
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  Speaker 2: Oh right, okay.
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  Speaker 3: And underneath anger you have probably heard this before, but
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  Speaker 3: underneath anger is often pain, sadness. Okay, yes, so you
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  Speaker 3: have things like layered in Is that interesting?
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  Speaker 2: Is when we're feeling them, I don't think we really
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  Speaker 2: think about them, that's right. And then there are emotions
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  Speaker 2: that can't live together, like anger kills love, that kind of.
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  Speaker 3: Thing, right, it can, it can definitely shut it down.
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  Speaker 3: And one of the things I think that is very
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  Speaker 3: psychologically healthy is when you are able to take a
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  Speaker 3: step back and observe your emotions kind of like a
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  Speaker 3: meta mind.
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  Speaker 2: Wow, I'm so happy we have you.
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  Speaker 5: So happy.
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  Speaker 6: I'm so happy to be The therapy is.
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  Speaker 2: Just so good. That's why desire is on the line.
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  Speaker 3: Now.
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  Speaker 2: Hi, Desiree, say I to to Sarah and Ryan and
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  Speaker 2: me Ellen.
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  Speaker 3: Hi, how are you hey, Desiree.
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  Speaker 6: How's it going.
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  Speaker 3: It's it's good.
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  Speaker 5: I uh I could use some help.
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  Speaker 1: Okay.
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  Speaker 2: The emotion I'm feeling right now is hopefulness.
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  Speaker 5: Yes, okay, yeah, well yeah.
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  Speaker 3: I'm not what emotion are you feeling.
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  Speaker 4: I'm feeling trepidation. I'm feeling I'm feeling like something's wrong.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, all right, Desiree, what a feeling?
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  Speaker 5: The sad story, that's I guess sort of happy that
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  Speaker 5: I'm just sort of now trying to deal with in
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  Speaker 5: my own way. But basically, my dad passed away from
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  Speaker 5: pancreatic cancer just even just a little over a year ago.
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  Speaker 5: My parents were married for thirty seven years, and they
• 3:00
  Speaker 5: had a wonderful marriage and he was a great dad,
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  Speaker 5: and you know, it's just been it's been a difficult
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  Speaker 5: loss for us, a difficult year, and we all miss
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  Speaker 5: them every day. But why I'm calling is actually because
• 3:16
  Speaker 5: of my mom, and it's it's breaking my heart in
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  Speaker 5: a way. But basically, a few months ago, my mom
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  Speaker 5: joined a dating app, and I then found out that
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  Speaker 5: she joined another dating app and then another, so she
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  Speaker 5: was like going full force. Okay, she's got a.
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  Speaker 3: Big appetite date, she's really looking for connection.
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  Speaker 5: Oh I guess so, because now she's constantly going out.
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  Speaker 5: She tells me, oh, well, you know, I have a
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  Speaker 5: dinner date with this guy on Tuesday, and a coffee
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  Speaker 5: date with this guy on Friday, and then even like
• 3:55
  Speaker 5: weekend trips, getaways and happy hours. And when I'm it's her,
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  Speaker 5: it's like her phone is buzzing NonStop and I can
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  Speaker 5: see that it's texts from men that I've never heard of,
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  Speaker 5: and you know, every time, it's like it's like a
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  Speaker 5: punch to my gut, Like I'm still trying to process
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  Speaker 5: losing my dad, and it's a weird thing. I know
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  Speaker 5: she's lonely, and I know everyone grieves differently, but a
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  Speaker 5: part of me just feels like she's moving on way
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  Speaker 5: too fast. And I don't I hate saying this, but
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  Speaker 5: sometimes it almost feels like she's trying to erase him,
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  Speaker 5: and it's hard for me, especially when I hear her
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  Speaker 5: like sounding excited about someone else that's not my dad
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  Speaker 5: but some random guy, you know. And I've tried bringing
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  Speaker 5: it up, and I mean, she's very cold about it.
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  Speaker 5: She pretty much says like, just because your father's wife ended,
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  Speaker 5: it doesn't mean that mine has, Okay, And yeah, I
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  Speaker 5: don't know. I feel betrayed in a way. But at
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  Speaker 5: the same time, of course, I want my mom to
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  Speaker 5: be happy, So I just I don't know how. I
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  Speaker 5: need help processing it and maybe switching my mindset. I
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  Speaker 5: don't know.
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  Speaker 3: I want to go back to what you said about
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  Speaker 3: the erasure of your dad. I don't think she's trying
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  Speaker 3: to erase him or his memory. I think she's trying
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  Speaker 3: to erase the pain. Oh, because it's a tremendous loss.
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  Speaker 3: It's a tremendous loss for all of you.
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  Speaker 6: Yeah, and her grief.
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  Speaker 3: I think it looks different and maybe that's where the
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  Speaker 3: feeling of betrayal is coming in.
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  Speaker 2: What do you think, Allan, Well, I'm wondering are you
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  Speaker 2: worried for her safety or her mental state? You know,
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  Speaker 2: like Sarah's saying, question, it's a mental state thing. My
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  Speaker 2: first impression was, Oh, my god, I'm a little worried
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  Speaker 2: about her safety just to hang out with random men.
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  Speaker 7: Yeah, good point.
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  Speaker 8: And to me, that feels right, yeah, yeah, yeah, it
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  Speaker 8: feels like she's like flying off the handle and she's
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  Speaker 8: just sort of like letting anybody, Yeah, here's my phone number.
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  Speaker 5: You know, it's before vetting them or before like I
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  Speaker 5: don't know. Obviously, she's brand new to the ops, like
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  Speaker 5: she's never.
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  Speaker 3: Got she was a relationship with your dad for thirty
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  Speaker 3: seven years. She hasn't been out and about.
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  Speaker 2: I'm interested to know, right as a guy, because I've
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  Speaker 2: seen guy friends go through breakups and they will just
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  Speaker 2: sleep with anything.
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  Speaker 7: That moves and a lot a lot of.
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  Speaker 2: High volume to get over the breakup and the pain,
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  Speaker 2: Like you said.
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  Speaker 7: Sarah, the old tag and Release program?
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  Speaker 2: What's it called?
• 6:45
  Speaker 7: The tag and Release program?
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  Speaker 2: So have you, as a man in your lifetime, done
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  Speaker 2: that when you've had a painful breakup, you've gone kind
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  Speaker 2: of girl crazy.
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  Speaker 1: I did.
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  Speaker 4: But as I think we get older and we get
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  Speaker 4: more mature, we kind of go the opposite way. Like
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  Speaker 4: where I took, I just I became like almost celibate,
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  Speaker 4: you know what I mean, Like I took a lot
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  Speaker 4: of time off because that just that that thrill that
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  Speaker 4: that whatever is not it does no longer suits you.
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  Speaker 6: It felt empty.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, so, but I but regarding desiree and this, like,
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  Speaker 4: here's what I kind of you keep saying. I know
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  Speaker 4: everyone grieves differently. I want my mom to be happy.
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  Speaker 4: I know she's lonely, but each of those things are
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  Speaker 4: then followed by a butt But yeah.
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  Speaker 5: So like like then I'm turning to like how I feel, That's.
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  Speaker 7: What I'm saying.
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  Speaker 4: And I think you're kind of projecting what you would
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  Speaker 4: do or don't want your mom to do. But you
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  Speaker 4: can't have two things in the same sentence. I know
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  Speaker 4: everyone grieves differently, but I don't like it.
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  Speaker 5: I don't know, do you think I should talk to her,
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  Speaker 5: like do you think I should tell my Like? Do
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  Speaker 5: you think I should tell her how it's making me feel?
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  Speaker 3: I think that communicating her about this is important, but
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  Speaker 3: I want to say something. I know that what she
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  Speaker 3: said to you was harsh, but it is also fundamentally true.
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  Speaker 6: Okay, that is the truth.
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  Speaker 3: And I know it's hard. But part of your work,
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  Speaker 3: it's going to be part of the work of you
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  Speaker 3: grieving your father, is to accept that your mother's life,
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  Speaker 3: it does belong to her.
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  Speaker 6: At the same time.
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  Speaker 3: She needs to give you space to remember your father.
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  Speaker 6: And I think that that.
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  Speaker 3: Would be a really helpful place to come from when
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  Speaker 3: you do bring this up with her, because it does
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  Speaker 3: need to be brought up.
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  Speaker 2: But what about her, Sarah, what about the mom Where
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  Speaker 2: is I know that that's how she's dealing with her grief,
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  Speaker 2: but when is it going to hit her? Like I
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  Speaker 2: feel like these are all distractions to keep her busy from,
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  Speaker 2: Like you said, running from the pain. Doesn't the pain
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  Speaker 2: always catch up with you in one way or another?
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  Speaker 6: It can.
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  Speaker 3: I'm curious about something. How long was your father sick
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  Speaker 3: before he passed?
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  Speaker 1: It was fast?
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  Speaker 5: I mean it was a year basically Okay, to me,
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  Speaker 5: that's fast, and creatic cancer is like the worst.
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  Speaker 3: It is, and unfortunately we know the prognosis for pancreatic cancer.
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  Speaker 3: I'm saying that because I do wonder if there was
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  Speaker 3: some anticipatory grief on your mother's part so it started.
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  Speaker 3: It started so so she has been grieving him for months,
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  Speaker 3: and the two of you are on conflicting grief timelines.
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  Speaker 3: And I know that that's really hard, but it's not.
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  Speaker 3: It's not a test of loyalty.
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  Speaker 7: I have two questions for you.
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  Speaker 1: Desire.
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  Speaker 4: Number one, what would you like to see happen ultimately?
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  Speaker 4: What do you want the outcome of this to be?
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  Speaker 1: That's good question.
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  Speaker 5: I of course I want my mom to be happy,
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  Speaker 5: you know I do. I don't want her to be alone.
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  Speaker 5: I want her to find a companion to share the
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  Speaker 5: second chapter of our life. And I know that's what
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  Speaker 5: my dad would want to even though that's really hard
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  Speaker 5: after thirty seven years, but yeah, I want her to
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  Speaker 5: find a companion. I guess I'm just like worried that
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  Speaker 5: this is. It just feels so fast to me, like
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  Speaker 5: I almost wish like she just took more time. But
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  Speaker 5: at the end of the day, yeah, I want her.
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  Speaker 4: My part too of this question is exactly what you
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  Speaker 4: just said. Is there a time frame to you that
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  Speaker 4: would be suitable?
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  Speaker 7: So one year?
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  Speaker 4: Obviously we're a year and you don't like this, like
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  Speaker 4: when how many years?
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  Speaker 5: I know, I guess, I guess you just I guess.
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  Speaker 5: Life doesn't work that way, doesn't it.
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  Speaker 3: No? No, But it's a it's a real it's a
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  Speaker 3: real question when you think about what is okay? So
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  Speaker 3: for you, two years okay would feel an appropriate like
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  Speaker 3: the appropriate amount of time for her to grieve, for
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  Speaker 3: her to be in mourning.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, and like experience her life. I don't know, like
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  Speaker 5: her life?
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  Speaker 2: What does she want in life? With the distraction of
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  Speaker 2: all the men?
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  Speaker 6: Okay?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I have a question too because it happened to me. Oh,
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  Speaker 2: is it inevitable that a crash and burn will happen
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  Speaker 2: for Desire's mom? Will she hit a wall where she
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  Speaker 2: she has some kind of other reaction to this death
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  Speaker 2: that I don't feel she's dealing with, does her.
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  Speaker 3: I'm going to let you answer that question before I I.
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  Speaker 5: Mean, yeah, that's yeah, that's a fear too, of course,
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  Speaker 5: like you know, that is definitely a fear, like is
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  Speaker 5: she just masking. Is this just a band aid?
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  Speaker 6: You know?
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  Speaker 2: When I was seventeen, my best friend was in a
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  Speaker 2: head on collision and on life support for three days
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  Speaker 2: and died practically in my arms. Oh oh my god,
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  Speaker 2: I went on. My friends were all around me. I'm
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  Speaker 2: still in high school. We were supposed to be the
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  Speaker 2: swim team captains together. I went, I'm swimming, I'm with friends.
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  Speaker 2: I'm thinking, you know, she's with me, She's my angel.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: I get to college and I was so anorexic and
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  Speaker 2: I didn't really develop an eating disorder. I just lost
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  Speaker 2: my appetite and this was like a delayed grief response.
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  Speaker 2: I found out later through a therapist. Sitty right, So
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  Speaker 2: I'm just wondering, is that inevitable or do some people
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  Speaker 2: get out clean?
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  Speaker 3: I think it depends on how much grieving she has
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  Speaker 3: already done, and she may be doing her grieving privately. Okay,
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  Speaker 3: we can't assume that just because she is engaging in
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  Speaker 3: the world fully more fully than life, that she is
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  Speaker 3: not grieving very quietly.
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  Speaker 6: We don't know that we're not in her head.
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  Speaker 2: What do we think about this as a group? What
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  Speaker 2: if you DESIREE helped your mom vet these dates that way,
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: Maybe if you went through the apps with her and said, Mom,
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  Speaker 2: look at this guy. What if you are going to
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  Speaker 2: go out, you know, then then maybe you'll have a
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  Speaker 2: little more familiarity.
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  Speaker 6: Okay. Would that feel comfortable to you, Desiree?
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  Speaker 2: Or does that gross you out? Like Ryan's like.
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  Speaker 3: Ryan looks horrified at the idea of this.
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  Speaker 4: If she doesn't even want her mom having, you know,
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: anything like anything on the on the horizon, She's not
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: gonna want to, you know.
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: And I was actually wondering just the opposite, if Desiree
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: would feel more comfortable if her mother didn't put all
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: this out there because it sounds like a mom but
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: to yourself, Mom, I don't want to know.
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  Speaker 7: It's like you know, like I know it's happening, but
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  Speaker 7: just kind of zip it.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, separation of church and s day.
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  Speaker 2: That's a lot of options for you to think about, Desiree.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: Really seriously, it is I.
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  Speaker 5: Don't know what like all the ideas I do, Maybe
• 13:56
  Speaker 5: just being more open with each other rather than me,
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  Speaker 5: like when I'm sitting there like in her phone is
• 14:01
  Speaker 5: just going off and it's just random guys, Like I
• 14:04
  Speaker 5: don't know, maybe she can just be more open with
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  Speaker 5: me about it.
• 14:08
  Speaker 6: That's right.
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: Feel I want to ask you something because I've seen
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: this come up. There can be and God almost feel
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: emotional saying it. We I think sometimes are afraid that
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: we're going to be the only person to remember. Oh,
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  Speaker 3: And I don't know if that might resonate with you.
• 14:32
  Speaker 5: Well, yeah, because I mean, if I'm really being honest,
• 14:37
  Speaker 5: there's like it feels like I'm never going to be
• 14:42
  Speaker 5: able to get another dad, Like I'm never going to
• 14:44
  Speaker 5: get my dad back, and she is now going to
• 14:48
  Speaker 5: go and like just replace him with another man. So
• 14:52
  Speaker 5: she's going to get her husband back, you know what
• 14:54
  Speaker 5: I mean, Like she's going to get another husband, but
• 14:56
  Speaker 5: like I'm never going to get another dad.
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: And I hear that that's how you feel. But it might
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: require you to reframe your mother's moving on as not
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  Speaker 3: a replacement for your father. It's just something different and
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: it doesn't diminish the love she had for him. It
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: doesn't diminish that doesn't diminish the history that you share
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: at all.
• 15:26
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I hear that.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: I do.
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: I know it's a lot to process and I can't
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: imagine losing a parent to pancreatic cancer and seeing that
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: that that's suffering. And you know, Ellen was talking about
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: delayed grief. How are you with delayed grief? Where are
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: you in terms of your grieving process.
• 15:54
  Speaker 5: I mean, I've been through the feelings of all of them,
• 16:00
  Speaker 5: met the stages and all that.
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  Speaker 3: You know.
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  Speaker 5: I think I've accepted it like it is. It can't
• 16:07
  Speaker 5: change it.
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean your feelings.
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  Speaker 5: I still think about it every day.
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: Your feelings about what your mother's doing, completely legitimate, completely understandable.
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  Speaker 3: I do wonder if it's a way of taking you
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: out of your grief you're processing.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: Oh so she's fixating on the mom's dating to not
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: have to face the loss either. Oh my god, Sarah,
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: you are like, gosh, that's incredible and I.
• 16:40
  Speaker 5: Don't I haven't thought about it that way, but well.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: She's.
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  Speaker 7: The l m f T for a reason.
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  Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, wow, Well listen, hang in there, desiree. Hopefully
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: that you know, hopefully your mom rings it in to
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: your liking and finds happiness all of you, the whole family.
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  Speaker 6: Yeah.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, wow, this is so helpful.
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  Speaker 3: Okay, I'm so glad, thank you and hanging there. And
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  Speaker 3: I just want to say that I am so sorry
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: for your loss.
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  Speaker 6: Yes, so sorry.
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  Speaker 5: I was lucky to have a great job, and you know,
• 17:18
  Speaker 5: he'll always be with me. So and I think I
• 17:21
  Speaker 5: know so many people go through this. I'm not alone
• 17:24
  Speaker 5: in it, that's for.
• 17:24
  Speaker 6: Sure, Desiree. I think your dad was lucky to have
• 17:27
  Speaker 6: you as a daughter too.
• 17:29
  Speaker 5: Oh well, thank you, thank you. That's so nice of
• 17:33
  Speaker 5: you to say thank you. Well, I appreciate the help
• 17:40
  Speaker 5: you got it.
• 17:41
  Speaker 7: Yeah, we're here, thank.
• 17:42
  Speaker 5: You, thank you.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: Okay, thank you.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, Sarah, I really think that you pointed out
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: a lot of tools for Desiree. I mean, sir, like
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: the way that you you come around the corner, like
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: you sneak up on us, and then you're like, what
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: about this? It's so helpful, it really is.
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: I hope, I really hope that that's helpful to her
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: because I can hear.
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  Speaker 6: I mean, her pain is palpable.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it would be. I mean, I don't know how
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: I would feel. My dad didn't want to move on
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: from my mom, and plus he was a little older,
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: and he was like, I never want to get over her,
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: and then that's just that's that right. In fact, the
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: women at church would come up and flirt with him,
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: and he was like, I don't want any part of it. Yeah,
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: but I wonder, like if it were my mom and
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: she started meeting gentlemen, Yeah, how I would feel. I
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: don't know you would like it. I wouldn't like it. Okay,
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: you Ryan, You're the opposite. You're like mom, Dad, go
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: for it.
• 18:39
  Speaker 7: I'm Ellen and Sarah.
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: I feel like, who am I to tell someone else
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: what their joy is?
• 18:44
  Speaker 5: Right?
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: Like, I can't polie someone's happiness if that's your thing.
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: You know, it might not be my thing, it wouldn't
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: be my decision. But if that's yours, who am I
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: to say?
• 18:52
  Speaker 7: Don't.
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: Some adult children unconsciously want the parent to stay frozen
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: because that preserves the family narrative. You know, they have
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: this family, you know, this idyllic situation. Sometimes it's more
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: idyllic in hindsight. You know, we look back and see
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: things in sort of this perfect way. But if the
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: parent brings somebody else in, that narrative is disrupted.
• 19:18
  Speaker 7: So what's so?
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: So?
• 19:20
  Speaker 6: What exactly?
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: And I hear what you're saying, and I agree with
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: you because that's that's part of being an adult, is
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: seeing your parents as full people with lives that don't
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: revolve around you.
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: In their entirety and sometimes look, I mean, Ellen, you
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: know when when your dad passed, it was sudden, right
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: your mom had had been battling for some time, yes,
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: for your dad. Like what life can Life can turn
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: on a dining and there's pivots, and the narrative we
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: have in our head doesn't always have to be the
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: story that plays out in the end exactly right.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: Think of the word X, like ah e x X.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: So what about your exes? I don't know how many
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: exes do you have, but Phoebe has an X and
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: she needs to know how to deal with a big
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: problem with the X. Okay, everybody, game, game, Come on, Well,
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: Phoebe's on the line. Hi, Phoebe.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is at first, I'm so happy I finally
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: got to talk to you guys. This is like a
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: huge gift. But here's the dilemma. For four years ago,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: it feels like time fly so quick. I signed my
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: divorce papers and I walked away from a sixteen year marriage,
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: like you know, like that was my life. I got
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: married really young. I got married at seventeen and a
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: half and my ex husband, Jake, I didn't split because
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: of him cheating or abusing me. It was just a slowly,
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: you know, we just started to kind of let go
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: in different directions, and I wasn't really attracted him anymore.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: The sparks disappeared, the conversations got shorter, taking.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: Apart especially, I think, is that com Yeah.
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: Especially when people get together when they're really young. I mean,
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: think about it. Our brain's done even finish developing until
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: twenty five years.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: Old, Okay, okay, okay. Then so you drift apart, you
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: get a divorce, and then what.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, we get a divorce. But then three
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: months ago, I got a phone call that really just
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: changed everything. It just changed my life. Honestly, my this
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: is so hard, and was sort to cry. Ryan has
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: suffered a serious heart related medical emergency, sorry guys, and
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: was rushed to the hospital and then nurse sound my
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: number listed as an emergency contact, and she called me,
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: and just all of a sudden, when I heard her
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: voice and I heard his name, without even thinking, I
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: just rose straight there. I was shaking, and when I
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: walked into the hospital and saw him lying there, pale
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: and scared, something just inside of me and I kind
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: of just like, I can't lose this man. I love him.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: I spent nearly half my life loving this man, and
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: you know, thankfully he's okay. Now, I'm sorry, guys.
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: That's okay.
• 22:12
  Speaker 6: You know, I don't apologize.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but like ever since that day, we've been you know,
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: talking constantly, and we've laughed more in the last three
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: months than we did in the last like final three
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: years of our marriage. I'm sorry, this is weird, but
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: the good thing is, you know, the problem now is
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: I'm engaged to an incredible human being. I mean, we
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: we evolve and we change, and his name is Greg.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: Nothing inappropriate happened with me and Ryan, but emotionally, I'm
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: still feeling the love from this man that I had
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: been married to, who is my husband, was my husband
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: who I had divorced. And I feel like I'm in
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: an unchartered territory because the truth is, I don't think
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: I'm just worried about Ryan. I think I've I fell
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: back Okay again, it's actually exciting, guys, really exciting.
• 23:07
  Speaker 6: Okay, I want to stop wondering. I'm want to ask
• 23:10
  Speaker 6: you a question.
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: Before you got the call from the nurse, how often
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: did you think about getting back together?
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: Good question?
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Ever, I was ready to go. Are you kidding me?
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: You're ready to do married?
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: Get married again?
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: This is this is not what I anticipated or expected.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: You only see these same kinds of things and movies.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: By the way, Okay, Sarah's wheels are turning, I can
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: see them. I have I have a question for you, Sarah,
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: two questions. Is this that Phoebe doesn't really want to
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: marry Greg, so Ryan having a medical emergency has given
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: her the diversion and a way out.
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: I think that is such a great question, a very
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: real possibility, and it's I mean, something's clearly going on there.
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: And I what I noticed is that your fiance is
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: sort of an afterthought when it comes to this. He's
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: you know, you didn't lead with I'm engaged. I'm engaged, Greg,
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: I'm engaged, and then X, Y and Z has happened,
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: and I'm feeling confused. And I do think that's significant.
• 24:29
  Speaker 6: If Ryan had.
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: Called you without the health emergency and told you he
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: missed you, would you still be feeling like this?
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: You know, those are things that I could never anticipate
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: because I thought it was game over. Okay, I really
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: thought until I saw him lying in that middle. If
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: something happened. It like when you fall in love all
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: over again. You know, when you fall in love that
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: that the endorphin tass and you don't know where it's
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: coming from, but you're just gonna go with it. And yeah, yeah,
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: That's where I'm at right now.
• 25:05
  Speaker 6: Okay, I want to ask our Ryan.
• 25:07
  Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, what thinks this isn't you?
• 25:10
  Speaker 8: Is it?
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: No? This isn't.
• 25:17
  Speaker 7: Okay?
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: So I think, I mean, just my opinion, and I
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: don't know if this happens to people. Sarah, you may
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: have seen this, but like I'm hearing and I'm feeling
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: almost like she's not falling in love with him, but
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: it's an inverse response to this idea of him dying
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: or something. It's something like a trauma bond something in
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: that family.
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: So a bonding through trauma an intensity.
• 25:43
  Speaker 6: Can I don't know it. Could?
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: I think that you're I think it's really possible. Have
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: you ever heard these experiments that they've done where they
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: take people to strangers and they put them in situations
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: where they they elicit fear, They these universities they start
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: feeling attracted to.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: Sure, sure, okay.
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: And I'm thinking about this situation where you have this
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: very very intense life or death scenario. Then you layer
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: in a history where you did feel very close. I'm
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: wondering how that's kind of playing out.
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: Here's an example, right, like when I was with an
• 26:24
  Speaker 4: ex who I still currently work with. We didn't have
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: like the best split, but when I found out that
• 26:34
  Speaker 4: her grand her grandmother passed, I reached out and said, hey,
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: I'm so sorry I heard about this, and it brought
• 26:40
  Speaker 4: back like happy feelings of time with that grandma, of
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: time together as the family unit. And so there was
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: no anger, right, there was more just like that that
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: everything softened because of a loss.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: Well, then you had an appreciation, yes, to that family.
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: Do you feel like it puts you back in touch
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: with your pleasant memories where your focus had been on.
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: That's one hundred percent what it was. And mind you,
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: this is nearly ten years ago at this point, but
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: I'm thinking of it in that way, right. So she's
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: there's a softening that happens when we when we see
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: someone we once cared for almost hurting.
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: And nostalgia is not the same thing as falling back
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: in love.
• 27:23
  Speaker 7: That's it.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: Okay, what about this And we haven't brought this one
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: up yet, so your ex husband's name is Ryan. You're
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: engaged to Greg. How Ryan knows about Greg? Right? So, like,
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: what's his problem? What's he doing? I mean, he knows
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: that you are engaged to a great guy named Greg.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: But yet is this reciprocated with him?
• 27:47
  Speaker 6: Does he?
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: Did he fall back in love with you? You said you're
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: talking every day.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: Ryan never stopped loving me. Greg knows nothing about what
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: just happened.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: Okay, but Ryan knows about Greg. Greg doesn't know about Ryan.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: That's correct.
• 28:04
  Speaker 7: Okay, So where is he at on you being engaged?
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: He's taking that slowly, but I think he thinks because
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: he knows me well, that I'm going to change my mind.
• 28:14
  Speaker 6: Okay?
• 28:14
  Speaker 7: Have you guys talked about this? Have you have you
• 28:18
  Speaker 7: talked about getting back together?
• 28:19
  Speaker 4: Or is this just how you're feeling now?
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: It's just how I'm feeling.
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: So for Ryan, you being engaged to another man is
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: not a moral dilemma for him?
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: Correct?
• 28:35
  Speaker 6: All right?
• 28:37
  Speaker 7: Let me ask another question.
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: Have you played this out farther than a day or
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: farther than right now? Like, have you really thought about this?
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: You spent what you said, sixteen years in this marriage.
• 28:48
  Speaker 4: Have you have you thought about the next sixteen. Have
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: you thought about telling Greg no, I'm ending No.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: No, okay, that's why I'm calling you guys.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, oh, okay, okay, okay. This is a
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: lot of unspoken.
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: There is obviously very good reasons why you end a
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: sixteen year marriage. I don't think this was done lightly,
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: and I'm curious about what has changed in the last
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: you said.
• 29:12
  Speaker 6: Four years.
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: That would make the marriage viable.
• 29:17
  Speaker 5: Now.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: I think when you're with someone in a marriage or
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: relationship for a long time, you change yourself, and sometimes
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: when you're standing in the middle of a store, you
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: don't even realize that you're at the center of it.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: So the change happened without our realizing how it looked.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: Oh, I don't know.
• 29:34
  Speaker 6: Can you tell me more about that.
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: I'm a little confused.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: I just don't really we did not see that coming.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: We were not talking as much. We kind of grew up.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: I was seventeen and a half when I got with him.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: What I find strange also, is that after all these
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: years apart, four years apart, you're still his emergency contact.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: Well, they went into obviously his wallet. It means a
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: very reason divorce. In many ways, I was there. It's
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: his contact. A lot of things are still connected to us. Yeah, okay, okay, yeah,
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: I don't know a good question.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: I just think that if if I'm Ryan and I
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: know about Greg, and I've been through a divorce and
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: you walked away, you signed the papers, you both just
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: grew apart.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I just.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: If it's not going to be Greg for you, I
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: would like to see someone else for you, because I
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: like to see a fresh start. If it's I mean,
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: maybe maybe Greg's not your guy. I don't think your
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: ex husband. He was an next for a reason. Maybe
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: there's someone else out there.
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: I mean, I am just like Ellen said, I don't
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: I don't hear what's actually different?
• 30:46
  Speaker 6: What wow have you and he changed in the way.
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: It's like, okay, you changed during the marriage. Of course,
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: you were very young. The marriage ends. What change has
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: occurred in the last four years that makes those changes
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: kind of not count?
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: It might be because I started a new job and so
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: things are more secure in my life for myself.
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: Was it a financial Was it a financial issue?
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 31:15
  Speaker 6: I think so do for you, Sarah?
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: Do boomerang relationships tend to work out percentage wise?
• 31:23
  Speaker 6: I don't know a percentage.
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: It all depends on why the relationship ended number one,
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: and if those things have been resolved, if there's been
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: personal growth, whatever, If there was an addiction and it
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: broke up the marriage, the addictions resolved, the two people
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: come back together. I know, I'm kind of that sounds
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: sort of basic, But things can happen that would make
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: a relationship workable when it wasn't workable in the past.
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: But that's exactly what I'm not hearing, and that's why
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: I'm pressing on that fear of loss is not the
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: same thing as falling back in love.
• 31:56
  Speaker 7: Thank you.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: That's it. That's true.
• 31:59
  Speaker 7: That's it.
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: That's the very first thing I thought when when she
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: started when when she started on this story, and I.
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: We'll say it next time so I don't have to.
• 32:08
  Speaker 4: But I can't see it like you see it.
• 32:09
  Speaker 7: But that's the exactly well that you just brought it home.
• 32:16
  Speaker 4: That's that thought I did where I go, Are you
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: actually in love or are you just afraid of him dying?
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: I don't feel love with either of them. That's why
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: I'm saying start over, phoebe H.
• 32:29
  Speaker 4: At the very least, do us a favorite. Please, just
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: do us a favorite. Play this out in your head,
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: you know, think about this, like, really think about this.
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: What happens in six months when his heart's fine and
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: this didn't just occur and Greg is gone, and Greg's gone,
• 32:43
  Speaker 4: he's engaged to someone else.
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: Exactly, it's a year. It's you're watching Netflix, you're oring door.
• 32:48
  Speaker 4: Dash, and you remember the things that you said when
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: you started this. We slowly drifted apart, we were talking less,
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: and that same crap happens again, and you've done all
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: of this for nothing.
• 32:58
  Speaker 6: Uh huh.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: Or maybe I had to go through that motion in
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: order to understand my place, my way forward.
• 33:04
  Speaker 6: Relationship all right, but okay, no problem.
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: A conversation with your fiance is very necessary at this point.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: I hear you probably a relationship ending kind of conversation,
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: because if I'm Greg, I'm not putting.
• 33:22
  Speaker 6: Up with that.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: If you're that unsure and then all of a sudden
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: you can flip on a dime because someone has a
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: medical emergency, I'd be like, well what about me? Like
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: I love you, I asked you to marry me, Phoebe,
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: I guess I'm out of here because you obviously don't
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: feel the same way.
• 33:37
  Speaker 7: Now there's two guys.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, and maybe I just need I need more
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: time on my own. I think that's what I'm gonna do.
• 33:44
  Speaker 7: Okay, Okay, there you go.
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: That that could be it, because look, when you get
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: married young. I've had friends have gone through it. They
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: got married too young. They were just too young, and
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: there's no there's no shame in that. Yeah, when it
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: doesn't work out, you just you both look at each
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: other like you did and said, wow, okay, Ellen, you're right.
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: You treat each other with as much kindness and respect
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: as possible and you go your separate ways. There's no
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: shame in that.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, I so appreciate this. This is very helpful. Okay, good,
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: this is really really helpful. It gives me a lot
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: of peace of mind too, So thank you.
• 34:25
  Speaker 6: Of course. I'm glad you called us.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's I feel like, can you tell my
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: whole spirit?
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: It is just like some much calmer yes, yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: Well Sarah does that to people, Ryan does that from Wow.
• 34:43
  Speaker 7: Thank you, Phoebe, thank you, best of luck.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, thank you, guys, thank you.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: I think that we could find a Tasker to be
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: a new emergency contact for Phoebe I mean, why not
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: you know someone who could be available to put up
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: the alert. Maybe go sit by Ryan's bedside.
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: I wonder what the fee?
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: Where do you start? What's the you know?
• 35:08
  Speaker 4: I will say, And speaking of very task and we
• 35:10
  Speaker 4: do think them are our friends. Amanda and Randy as
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: we speak, are having a tasker do a three day project.
• 35:16
  Speaker 7: They're painting.
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: They sell their condo, and they they put out the
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: quote the bid, and the guy took it. And he's
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: been so phenomenal, arrives early, brought his own materials and
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: and really is doing a fantastic job sending updates as
• 35:30
  Speaker 4: he's painting the condo.
• 35:31
  Speaker 7: I love that A great experience.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, Well Desiree and Phoebe. So Desiree's mom is
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: going crazy dating and then Phoebe wants to go back
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: to her ex husband and break off her engagement. It
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: sounds like to me, I don't know what we make
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: of this.
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: I take both of these as like people who really
• 35:52
  Speaker 4: don't know what they want and are trying to act
• 35:54
  Speaker 4: on things before they've really thought them through. The mom,
• 35:58
  Speaker 4: I don't think, knows what she wants once. Desiree doesn't
• 36:01
  Speaker 4: want her mom. She doesn't know what she wants. She
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: doesn't know if she wants her mom to keep doing
• 36:04
  Speaker 4: this or not. She doesn't know.
• 36:05
  Speaker 7: Phoebe doesn't know if she wants So you.
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: Think there needs to be some introspection.
• 36:10
  Speaker 7: People are just acting. They're just knee jerking out here,
• 36:13
  Speaker 7: knee jerking.
• 36:13
  Speaker 6: You know.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: People do the.
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: Best they can, and sometimes they don't always think things through.
• 36:18
  Speaker 4: Okay, I've been guilty of that, and I think that's
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: why I can recognize it.
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: No, we all have spent knee jerky doing the best
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: you can