Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 378 - The HSCA Vs. The DPD

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JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 378 - The HSCA Vs. The DPD · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Legs and gentlemen, may I have your attention please? The
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: show starts in five nine, eight, seven, six, five four
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: three two one God, anything.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: Up, the True Down and rail as Brother Juice, A
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: mob to the bear Bag, Mister Foods in the Pawenness.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: It's riding Nights, Hive, the Lights, the breaks, Sids.
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: Never be.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: Friend of the basting You and the Boian.
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: For your all, Juice saying, and here.
• 1:54
  Speaker 4: We go, and indeed we are going. Thank you, Roger,
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: We're here.
• 2:05
  Speaker 5: It's Friday night. What's up? Everybody? Welcome into the show.
• 2:10
  Speaker 5: First off, Hello, Joe, how are you, sir?
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: I am doing okay. A lot of big news regarding
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: my favorite sports teams this week. Rangers just announced that
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: they're doing a rebuild.
• 2:27
  Speaker 5: And not another news folks, and.
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: Met signed someone big. But other than that, I am good, sir,
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: hanging in there.
• 2:36
  Speaker 5: How are you fantastic? Fantastic for Friday? Still sickly but
• 2:45
  Speaker 5: excited for the show. Yeah, Friday Night. Here we fucking go.
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah and I We're going to get into some announcements here,
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: but just want to welcome in the top three medal winners.
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: Trey gets the gold medal from the Heart of Dallas. Indeed, sir, uh,
• 3:02
  Speaker 4: Mogridge gets second place and South to West gets the bronze.
• 3:09
  Speaker 4: You down with DPD Yeah you know me?
• 3:12
  Speaker 5: Yeah?
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: What what quote is that from? I'm missing it?
• 3:15
  Speaker 5: You down with OPP? Yeah?
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: You know I got it. I got it.
• 3:20
  Speaker 5: I mean when you were a young boy, Joe, you
• 3:22
  Speaker 5: probably don't remember. I probably stands for you have ap.
• 3:31
  Speaker 4: No, explain it to me.
• 3:34
  Speaker 5: You don't know what OPP stands.
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: For, not in the context I think you're referring it
• 3:40
  Speaker 4: to so let me in the audience. I didn't make Okay, well, okay, yeah,
• 3:46
  Speaker 4: I think it's was it doctor dre or something?
• 3:49
  Speaker 5: It's naughty by nature?
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: Okay, it wasn't close and uh, Tiny Dancer. I'm just
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: gonna say hi to you because Tiny Dancer came on
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: my YouTube mix today and I thought of you. So
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: hope all as well.
• 4:04
  Speaker 5: Oh that's special.
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: I'm guessing that's what her name is based on.
• 4:09
  Speaker 5: So I was watching Power Book raising Canaan and Tony.
• 4:14
  Speaker 5: I saw Tony Danza uh was guest starring on the
• 4:20
  Speaker 5: episode as a as an Italian mobster. Oh yeah, named Salvator.
• 4:26
  Speaker 5: Yeah that made me think of Tiny Dancer. You know
• 4:28
  Speaker 5: Tony Danza, tiny dancer.
• 4:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that's true too. Not all Italian Americans are mobsters,
• 4:36
  Speaker 4: although I can never read.
• 4:38
  Speaker 5: Very convincing mobster. Poor Tony Danza.
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah, he's like seventy and.
• 4:43
  Speaker 5: Like one hundred and thirty five pounds, soaking wet.
• 4:45
  Speaker 4: Now, like come on, yeah, oh oh yeah, that he's
• 4:49
  Speaker 4: the one they may perform. Oh no, that's the other
• 4:52
  Speaker 4: one that's like super old. What's his name?
• 4:55
  Speaker 5: He's not super Old?
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: No, it's uh Joe.
• 5:00
  Speaker 5: Do you know who Tony Danza is? Yes, okay, who's
• 5:03
  Speaker 5: Tony Danza?
• 5:04
  Speaker 4: Hold on, I'm I'm looking up the other name. But
• 5:10
  Speaker 4: why don't you get into Frankie Valley, who actually guest
• 5:16
  Speaker 4: starred in The Sopranos.
• 5:17
  Speaker 5: That's what I'm saying.
• 5:20
  Speaker 4: He was the one I was referring to that he
• 5:22
  Speaker 4: looks dead on stage. He's like ninety something.
• 5:25
  Speaker 5: It's like, oh, I just pep him up on stage
• 5:27
  Speaker 5: and he barely lip syncs to the songs. It's horrible.
• 5:31
  Speaker 4: It's really bad.
• 5:32
  Speaker 5: It's like elder abuse.
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: It it really is. So uh, let's get to it.
• 5:39
  Speaker 6: Rob.
• 5:40
  Speaker 5: I uh, all right, we got some news. As my
• 5:44
  Speaker 5: nose runs off my face.
• 5:47
  Speaker 4: It's Okay, it is flu season.
• 5:50
  Speaker 5: It is flu season. Just be glad you're not within
• 5:53
  Speaker 5: ten feet of me right now. You may be catching
• 5:55
  Speaker 5: something other than feelings, if you know what I'm saying.
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah, catch a virtual cold, which is what I just
• 6:04
  Speaker 4: watched Independence Day the other day. That's the way they
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: brought down the shields of those aircraft, the alien ships,
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: by giving it a cold, the virus.
• 6:13
  Speaker 5: So yeah, sorry for the tangent, go right about to
• 6:17
  Speaker 5: go on another one. So uh well, it's not a
• 6:24
  Speaker 5: huge deal. Nothing too major is changing with the show.
• 6:31
  Speaker 5: But Joe and I have been noticing that there is
• 6:34
  Speaker 5: an extreme saturation nowadays, even as opposed to two years
• 6:41
  Speaker 5: ago when we started doing this live on YouTube. There's
• 6:44
  Speaker 5: a gigantic saturation when it comes to JFK podcast if
• 6:51
  Speaker 5: you will, that are popping up everywhere, and we've noticed
• 6:58
  Speaker 5: a decrease in subscribers, We've noticed a decrease in views,
• 7:07
  Speaker 5: and so we're trying to think how to remedy this.
• 7:10
  Speaker 5: You know, I mean, we're doing all we can by
• 7:12
  Speaker 5: sharing on social media, YadA, YadA, YadA. You know, every
• 7:18
  Speaker 5: social media platform has their own algorithm of things. Right,
• 7:23
  Speaker 5: it's I don't know who the god is that chooses,
• 7:28
  Speaker 5: you know, for for a YouTube video to catch twenty
• 7:32
  Speaker 5: thousand viral views. But we don't have one viral video
• 7:40
  Speaker 5: over that hasn't been around forever, that has over like
• 7:44
  Speaker 5: five thousand views. Like we can't catch lightning in a bottle.
• 7:49
  Speaker 5: And that's fine. We don't need any help per se, right,
• 7:55
  Speaker 5: But so you know, we're talking amongst ourselves within you know,
• 7:58
  Speaker 5: what do we bring to the table, not a lot
• 8:01
  Speaker 5: of the others do. One thing is we bring good,
• 8:10
  Speaker 5: new relevant information. We like to think that we give
• 8:16
  Speaker 5: excellent Uh what's the word I'm looking for, Joe.
• 8:24
  Speaker 4: Commentary, detailed context.
• 8:27
  Speaker 5: Yeah, we give good takets on things. We give good
• 8:29
  Speaker 5: informed speculation, We back up our things. I'm I'm trying
• 8:36
  Speaker 5: to get Joe to be not be such a fence
• 8:38
  Speaker 5: sitter sometimes that they have an opinion and stand behind it,
• 8:43
  Speaker 5: and he's working on that instead of just throwing up things.
• 8:49
  Speaker 5: I don't know, I don't know who knows, We can't know, well,
• 8:54
  Speaker 5: we can.
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: I get confused, you know who I am. But I
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: don't think that's the the main issue. But I think,
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: you know, you know, sometimes I'll overdo it with the powerpoints,
• 9:08
  Speaker 4: of the context and listen. People today have extremely short
• 9:14
  Speaker 4: attention spans, right, extremely short. That's why some are for
• 9:19
  Speaker 4: our shorts just get like thousands and thousands of views.
• 9:22
  Speaker 4: And yeah, so we're we're just like we adapted into
• 9:27
  Speaker 4: the live show. I think it's three years ago, wrong,
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: twenty three right.
• 9:34
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it'll be three years this November, which is this November?
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: Okay a little ways, Yeah, my math is wrong. As usual,
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: you know, we we got to keep adapting.
• 9:44
  Speaker 5: So so we're gonna try out some different things. Number
• 9:49
  Speaker 5: one being we are going to try to keep this
• 9:54
  Speaker 5: show Friday nights somewhere to roughly half of what it
• 10:03
  Speaker 5: normally is, whether you know, if it's normally two hours
• 10:07
  Speaker 5: and thirty minutes, we're gonna shoot for an hour and
• 10:09
  Speaker 5: fifteen if it's two hours, or shoot for an hour.
• 10:13
  Speaker 5: And then the second part of the show will be
• 10:17
  Speaker 5: done on Wednesday nights for members only, So the continuation
• 10:22
  Speaker 5: of the Friday show will be the following Wednesday from
• 10:26
  Speaker 5: members only. Right. We will also be moving our JFK
• 10:32
  Speaker 5: book reviews to being members only, and that is a
• 10:40
  Speaker 5: perk for all members, so from spooks to covert operators
• 10:47
  Speaker 5: to superspies, you exclusively get the book reviews.
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: And.
• 10:55
  Speaker 5: Nothing will be changing from members only, except you know,
• 11:00
  Speaker 5: because we always say it's an episode preview show, and uh,
• 11:04
  Speaker 5: sometimes we're able to tell you what we're gonna be
• 11:06
  Speaker 5: doing on Friday, and sometimes we can't. It just seems
• 11:08
  Speaker 5: to be another show that we are prepping for. So
• 11:12
  Speaker 5: we decided that maybe doing these super long shows on
• 11:18
  Speaker 5: Friday night is hurting things. But like Joe said, you know,
• 11:21
  Speaker 5: people have very short attention spans, so we're gonna give
• 11:26
  Speaker 5: you a little bit more of a bite sized show
• 11:29
  Speaker 5: Fridays and then members only, We're not worried about time limits.
• 11:34
  Speaker 5: We can go as long as we want because we're
• 11:37
  Speaker 5: doing we're doing it for We're doing it for you.
• 11:39
  Speaker 5: At that point, if you know, if it takes two
• 11:41
  Speaker 5: to two and a half hours on Wednesday night, great,
• 11:44
  Speaker 5: We're gonna try to shoot to keep this show somewhere
• 11:46
  Speaker 5: around an hour ish because that's what the algorithm seems
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  Speaker 5: to like, if you will. This is very frustrating to
• 11:55
  Speaker 5: know that, or to see that all the work that
• 11:57
  Speaker 5: you put into this thing and then the algorithm shuns
• 12:03
  Speaker 5: you and you see these other shows that have absolutely
• 12:07
  Speaker 5: nothing to offer, but bullshit and fake stories.
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: And recycled stories.
• 12:15
  Speaker 5: Twenty thirty year old stuff that's been debunked outperform. What
• 12:21
  Speaker 5: we're doing over here is ridiculous to me, it is,
• 12:26
  Speaker 5: and I don't know what the fix is. So we're
• 12:29
  Speaker 5: gonna experiment a little bit, and that's just how it's
• 12:34
  Speaker 5: gonna be. And we're still gonna do last Wednesday of
• 12:38
  Speaker 5: the month. We're gonna open that up for spooks. We're
• 12:41
  Speaker 5: gonna keep that open for spooks. But if you're digging
• 12:46
  Speaker 5: the Friday show and you want the continuation of the story,
• 12:50
  Speaker 5: the second part, duh. If you will, then we're gonna
• 12:54
  Speaker 5: be moving that over to the members only section, and
• 12:57
  Speaker 5: that's just how it's gonna be. We're gonna try it out,
• 13:01
  Speaker 5: see how it works. Nothing is ever permanent, but we're
• 13:05
  Speaker 5: trying to evolve a little bit. And since we're one
• 13:09
  Speaker 5: of the only ones that does this live, okay, also
• 13:16
  Speaker 5: on Friday nights, at the end of the show, for
• 13:19
  Speaker 5: about five ten minutes, whatever it takes, we will be
• 13:24
  Speaker 5: answering questions live on the air. But don't put them
• 13:31
  Speaker 5: up now, because we have no way of keeping track
• 13:33
  Speaker 5: of them, right, write them down, yeah, write them down.
• 13:37
  Speaker 5: And towards the end of the show, feel free to
• 13:40
  Speaker 5: pop them up as a comment and we will answer
• 13:44
  Speaker 5: them to the best of our ability, live right here
• 13:47
  Speaker 5: on the air for you, because I mean, it's something
• 13:51
  Speaker 5: that we can do that nobody else can do because
• 13:54
  Speaker 5: they don't do it live. We do it.
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: We do just like Bill O'Reilly said it, we'll do
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: it live that famous clip.
• 14:06
  Speaker 5: Without further adieu, let's get into Okay.
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: Well, I just want to thank the Double B who
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: has gifted five memberships and as always, we are grateful
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: to you. Brandon and I actually I'm going to say
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: long time no talk because I talked to him on
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: the phone at about six pm. Uh and uh, I
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: think we have one more. Steve O just became a member,
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: So thank you Steve. And uh yeah, become a member.
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: And if you're gifted a membership, re up that ship
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: because it only lasts a month.
• 14:58
  Speaker 5: Yeah, unless you're recurring recurring of course. So we appreciate
• 15:03
  Speaker 5: each and all of our our channel members out there,
• 15:05
  Speaker 5: and uh we do. We do. You will get your
• 15:08
  Speaker 5: money's worth, I promise you. We do it like no
• 15:13
  Speaker 5: other It's time to make start other folks start realizing
• 15:18
  Speaker 5: such a right, Joe. So let's get into it and
• 15:21
  Speaker 5: tell the people something they don't know.
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: All right, So we're going to start with Jim Lavell. Okay,
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: and let's see if we can make this a little bigger.
• 15:35
  Speaker 5: That's what she said.
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah, all right, and this is where we usually go chronologically,
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: but we're actually going to start with this, oh bit.
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: His obituary Jim Lavelle, detective inhistoric photo of Lee Harvey
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: Oswalt dies at ninety nine and Rob. As I did
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: research for this show, I learned a lot about him.
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  Speaker 4: He was born on August twenty third, nineteen twenty in
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  Speaker 4: Red River County, Texas. He joined the Civilian Conservation Court
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: Corpse following his high school graduation. In nineteen thirty nine,
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: he enlisted in the United States Navy. So you think
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: about it, it's like, what two years before Pearl Harbor
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: he briefly served on the couple destroyers, and he was
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: in Hawaii during the Pearl Harbor attack. Now he was
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: on Ford Island, which wasn't on the USS Whitney, which
• 16:38
  Speaker 4: wasn't exactly where you know, the attack happened, but he
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: was close enough to see the Japanese zeros flying by,
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: and that's interesting. You know, you got to give him
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: credit for that. So he then in nineteen forty too
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: left the USS Whitney left Pearl Harbor and headed to
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: the South Pacific to support operations there. One day, while
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: the ship was caught in a storm, Lavelle descended a
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: ladder when a large wave knocked him down and he
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: screwed up his knees. Jimmy Scars, we'll call him now.
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: After World War Two ended, he worked as an auditor
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: for the Veterans Administration until nineteen fifty when he joined
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  Speaker 4: the DPD. And we'll get into some of his activities.
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  Speaker 5: He's a todd bastard, he was. He died on the
• 17:39
  Speaker 5: way to color on his way to Colorado to visit
• 17:42
  Speaker 5: his daughter when he was ninety nine. Yeah, shit, I'll
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  Speaker 5: be dan if I'm gonna get on a plane and
• 17:48
  Speaker 5: go to a flyway halfway across the country at ninety nine.
• 17:51
  Speaker 5: But you can come see me.
• 17:53
  Speaker 4: Right right, That's what I'm saying. Yeah, but I mean
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: props to even getting on a plane ninety nine. Shit,
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: I didn't want to want to get on a plane.
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: Now a fraction of a second. This is from the
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  Speaker 4: Dallas Morning News, which I signed up for today, stands
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  Speaker 4: out from all the other notable experiences in James Robert
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: Lavelle's long, notable life. He was among the first sailors
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: at Pearl Harbor to see Japanese Euros attacking the US fleet.
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: The Dallas detective who solved all but two of the
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: multiple cases he handled, he was pretty sure of what
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: happened in the unsolved one, so Rob that that raises
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: a red flag for me, because if you're a homicide detective,
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: you have like, like not a ninety nine percent solving
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: case that we're going to get into.
• 18:47
  Speaker 5: We know, we know what was going on down there
• 18:49
  Speaker 5: in Dallas with Fritz homicide detectives, you know.
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  Speaker 4: Right right. But on November twenty four to sixty three,
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: he was the cowboy, headed man, handed man, and the
• 19:00
  Speaker 4: light colored handcuffed to Lee Harvey Oswalt's as Jack Ruby
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: fired his fatal shot on live TV. That moment became
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: the most recognizable images of the twentieth century. I believe
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: it want a politic er two he died. His daughter
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: Carla confirmed, blah blah blah. It's kind of like a
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: camera once you took it in you never got rid
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: of it, he said in February twenty fourteen, which I
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: don't really know what he's talking about there when he's
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: talking about life is kind of a camera. Oswalt's shooting
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: wasn't an incident he discussed easily in its aftermath. For
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: Lavelle and others linked to the events that colored national
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: perceptions of Dallas, it was years before they felt comfortable
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: opening up, particularly as he got older. He felt an
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: obligation to tell what he knew, to dispel the conspiracy
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: there is, he said his daughter. He felt like he
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: had a responsibility. If you became his friend, you were
• 20:02
  Speaker 4: his friend forever, ever said, I guess that was one
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: of his friends. Among those friends was a radio newsman
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: who had reported on the shooting. He and Lavelle regularly
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: visit each other after the reporter moved to South Texas.
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: Another woman who had been in middle school when she
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: wrote a letter to Lavelle seeking information about the Kennedy assassinations.
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: After math quote, he wrote her back, and they had
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: been corresponding ever since. Now she's grown with two kids
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: of her own, and I don't know if he influenced her,
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: but she's in law enfor enforcement in West Texas. That's
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: the kind of guy he was, So listen, this is
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: a very pro article. And I'm not even going to
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: go there about corresponding with a little girl. And did
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: he father a bastard? Because I have no idea, but
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: that's kind of a joke. You don't want to dance
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: on the grave of a patriot, which he was. I
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: don't know how the others fared, but he hit me
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: on the right hand, Lavell said, I don't even know
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: what he's referring to there. He joined the Navy immediately
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: after graduating from high school, but had to wait enough
• 21:17
  Speaker 4: long enough for other men to enlist to form a
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: training company in nineteen forty. On December seventh, nineteen forty one,
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: like we kind of discussed, he was on the deck
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: of the USS Whitney destroyer about two miles from Pearl Harbor.
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: He was a boatswain's mate talking to a boat swain's
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: mate when the officer spotted the enemy planes attacking Ford
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: Island in the middle of Pearl Harbor, and he closed
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: it off saying, this is no bullshit either, and I
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: believe this story by him. Lavell went to his battle station,
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: but the six inch gun he was assigned was too
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: big for the close up fighting. It was designed to
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: shoot thirty or forty miles and fire shot that day
• 22:01
  Speaker 4: because if they if I fire, if they'd fired that one,
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: they would have killed someone on the other side of
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: the islands, a gay. Like civilians, Lavelle's days at sea
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: ended when he was trapped in a typhoon for three days.
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: He was tossed off a stairwall and fell about ten
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: feet to a steel deck with a large wave jolted
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: the ship. He landed on his knees, which he had
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: swelled to the he said, swell to the size of footballs.
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: He became ambulatory again after treatment aside, then got an
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: honorable discharge. He took a civilian assignment with a military
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: warehouse after the war, did a number of jobs blah
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: blah blah. He was patrolman first when he first encounters
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: with Ruby at his dance hall on South Irv Street.
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: At the time, officers were assignedist shakedown beer joints near
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: closing time to check rowdy customers who might create disturbances.
• 23:06
  Speaker 4: He recalled in his sixth form Museum Oral History that
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: Ruby made a prophetic comment. During one such shakedown, he
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: told me, you know, I've always wanted to see two
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: police officers in a death struggle with someone about to
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: lose their life, and I could jump in and save them.
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: Lavelle said, So again you could see the hyping of
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: his kind of career. The morning after Oswalt was shot,
• 23:32
  Speaker 4: Lavell recalled Ruby's statement about wanting to be a hero.
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: I told him, you don't know, you know, you didn't
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: do us any favor by shooting Oswalt, Leavell said. He said,
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: all I wanted to do was to be a hero,
• 23:45
  Speaker 4: and it looks like all I did was foul things up.
• 23:49
  Speaker 4: And I said, well, you could say that again. Leavell.
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: Levell found himself in several life threatening situations. That goes
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: on to describe a bunch of, you know, random things.
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: He was actually rob on the morning of twenty second,
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: he arrested what was this? He On the morning of
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: November twenty second, Level and another patrolman arrested a suspect
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: for armed robbery in North Dallas and they transported him
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: to the city jail. So he's a busy guy because
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: he's at the TSBD. He's at the Tippet scene, and
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: he's the first one to interview Oswald, the first one,
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: of course, before host Y and book Out showed up,
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: showed up, right, So you know, it kind of goes
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: on and on. Leavell learned the officer to be shot
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: in Oakliffe after he was at TSVD. He arrived at
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: the scene after Officer JD. Tippett's body had been removed.
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: They called me on air to tell me that they
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: had arrested his suspect in the Texas Theater, Lavell said
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: in his sixth Floor History Oral History. Lavelle instructed the
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: dispatcher to have their arresting officers take the suspect, Lee
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: Harvey Oswald to his office. Oswalt was alone in the
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: interrogation room when Lavell arrived downtown. I sat down and
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: started talking to him strictly about Tippett, and Leavell said
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: in his Oral History, I had no clue that he
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: was going to be the suspect in the presidential assassination.
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: That was the farthest thing from my mind. So I'm
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: gonna it goes on a little bit. I'm gonna stop
• 25:40
  Speaker 4: sharing if I can. And I got it. I got
• 25:44
  Speaker 4: it first, So interesting life, mister Lavell led right, Yeah,
• 25:53
  Speaker 4: you know, definitely a patriot, Definitely someone that was a
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: company man, I would say, and definitely someone in his
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: later life was open to talking to a ton of
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: different researchers, right documentaries, blah blah blah. This is two
• 26:13
  Speaker 4: of his pictures he's in his later life. He has
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: his white hat on still he's posing with the picture,
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: which is a little weird to me of him next
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: to Lee getting murdered, essentially a little weird, but he
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: seems to be proud of that. For some reason. He
• 26:39
  Speaker 4: said he saw Jack Ruby in his periphery, for whatever
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: that means. This is a document we have talked about
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: in the last couple episodes. This is the first report
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: he made on eleven twenty two filed and when Oswalt
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: kind of combined his two or a previous and current
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: living address at Rooming Houses. So he was there and
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: he was definitely the first one to talk to Oswalt. Right,
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: and Rob when I told you that he said he
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: only had two cases he never solved. Right. This is
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: a microfilm copy from the DPD Portal Texas History of
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: a Supplementary Offense report which clears the murder of JD. Tippett,
• 27:27
  Speaker 4: So you know you got a check mark. You know
• 27:30
  Speaker 4: you solve the homicide. And if you've ever watched the wire,
• 27:34
  Speaker 4: it's all about your stats, right, That's really what it's
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: about if you're a homicide detective and it says it's
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: hard to read. This offense is clear with the arrest
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: of Lee Harvey Oswalt. He was filed on for a
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: murder November twenty second with his sister just da out
• 27:54
  Speaker 4: I think a Bill Alexander by Captain Fritz and Lee
• 27:57
  Speaker 4: Oswalt was later murdered by Jack. So that's his clearing
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: of the Tippet murder. So I don't think he went
• 28:04
  Speaker 4: to too much detail. And I bet if you looked
• 28:06
  Speaker 4: into a bunch of other his reports they would be
• 28:11
  Speaker 4: very h condensed. Let's say that this is the homsy
• 28:21
  Speaker 4: report of Lee Harvey Oswald again deceased in the custody
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: of being handcuffed to Detective J. H. Levelle's left wrist
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: with Detective L. C. Graves, which I think we're going
• 28:34
  Speaker 4: to get him more into the members only.
• 28:35
  Speaker 5: Right, Rob, I don't know you're doing him.
• 28:41
  Speaker 4: So if yeah, I got more on him holding holding
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: the deceased Lee's left arm. Deceased was marched out of
• 28:49
  Speaker 4: the jail office late into the basement Blah blah blah,
• 28:53
  Speaker 4: tippet Kennedy things like that. I uh and this is
• 28:59
  Speaker 4: his report on officers duties for the Ruby shooting. Shortly
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: after eleven am began the transfer, Chief Curry had come
• 29:09
  Speaker 4: to Captain Fritz's office made a suggestion earlier to double
• 29:13
  Speaker 4: cross the press and take Oswald out of the first
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: floor via the Main Street door, leaving the press waiting
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: in the basement and on Commerce Street. Oh no, they
• 29:24
  Speaker 4: were doing a fucking photo op. It's really what they
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: were doing. Also, it was suggested to go out the
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: Main Street ramp and west on Main Street. These suggestions
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: were turned down by Chief Curry, who stated we had
• 29:37
  Speaker 4: better go ahead with the transfer as planned since he
• 29:41
  Speaker 4: had given his word on it too. Approximately eleven fifteen am,
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: we left third floor office with Oswald handcuffed to my
• 29:49
  Speaker 4: left arm and Detective L. C. Graves holding to Oswald's
• 29:53
  Speaker 4: left arm. Proceeded to the jail elevator by Fritz. A
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: couple other detectives reached the basement of Blah Blah, We
• 30:04
  Speaker 4: walked out and We just reached the ramp where the
• 30:07
  Speaker 4: car we were to ride in was being backed into
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: position by Detective Doherty, when out of the mass of
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: humanity interesting turn there, composed of all the news media
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: which had surged forward to within six or seven feet
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: of us, came the figure of a man with a
• 30:28
  Speaker 4: gun in his hand. He took two quick steps and
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: double action to thirty eight revolver point blank at Oswald.
• 30:37
  Speaker 4: I jerked back on Oswalt at the same time reaching
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: out and catching Jack Ruby on the left shoulder, shoving
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: back and down on him, bringing myself between Ruby and Oswalt.
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: I could see Detective Graves and had Ruby's gun hand
• 30:51
  Speaker 4: and gun in his hands. I turned my attention to Oswalt,
• 30:55
  Speaker 4: and with the help of Detective Combst we took Oswald
• 30:58
  Speaker 4: back into the jail and laid jail office and laid
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: him down. Handcuffs were removed, and the city hall doctor,
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: doctor Bierber Dwarf, not to be confused with the guy
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: Ruby was with when he went to the or the
• 31:19
  Speaker 4: jersey justin Bieber Yeah Yeah, was summoned. We also called
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: O'Neill ambulance, although I'm pretty sure the ambulance was backing
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: up by then or was it just a transfer car.
• 31:36
  Speaker 4: Oswalt was placed in the ambulance and rushed to Parkland
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: Hospital and the ambulance beside the crew was doctor bier
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: Bieber Dwarf. That's an interesting one. And you know, he
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: ends up interviewing a ton of people in the months after,
• 31:54
  Speaker 4: including this person who's pretty sure he saw Oswalt with
• 31:59
  Speaker 4: the manager, an assistant manager of a club. They also
• 32:03
  Speaker 4: stated they remember Jack Ruby because of the cards that
• 32:06
  Speaker 4: he has always passed out. I yeah, this is just
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: a little filler, but yeah, so listen, this dude lived
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: a pretty crazy life man, and you know, for what
• 32:25
  Speaker 4: it's worth, people can have their own opinions on him.
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: I don't think he was the worst. I don't think
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: he was also very truthful in a lot of senses.
• 32:40
  Speaker 4: But he was definitely a company man, that's for sure.
• 32:44
  Speaker 4: And he definitely was a big part of that weekend.
• 32:48
  Speaker 4: Of course, TSBD tip it scene being handcuffed to Oswalt.
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: First want to interview Oswalt. So dude had a lot
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: of stories. I wish he was kind of more forthright.
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: So what are your thoughts on that?
• 33:02
  Speaker 5: Brom Well, Speaking of Lavelle and his stories. You want
• 33:07
  Speaker 5: to hear him talk about one of them?
• 33:09
  Speaker 4: I do.
• 33:10
  Speaker 5: All right, let's check this out here I do. Let
• 33:15
  Speaker 5: me share my screen.
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: Fort Island was pounded too, Yeah, I mean, yeah, for sure.
• 33:25
  Speaker 5: Can you see this, Joe, I can Okay, here we go,
• 33:30
  Speaker 5: here we go?
• 33:31
  Speaker 4: Reactions? Was the nervous or he would he cooperate anyway?
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: Or can you collaborate on how he.
• 33:41
  Speaker 6: During the entire time that I was around him, from
• 33:47
  Speaker 6: the time that I talked for a by Shale, he
• 33:50
  Speaker 6: would very polide and answered my questions. He didn't tell
• 33:55
  Speaker 6: me the truth, but he wasn't belligered about it, as
• 33:59
  Speaker 6: some of you reported. And I never saw him get
• 34:01
  Speaker 6: belligered at any time. Now, of course I wasn't with
• 34:05
  Speaker 6: him a hundred percent of the time, so I can't
• 34:06
  Speaker 6: swear to that, but I uh I will say that
• 34:09
  Speaker 6: during the entire time that I was around him, I
• 34:11
  Speaker 6: never saw him get uh uh beliged. Or of course
• 34:16
  Speaker 6: when he when we had to move him down the hallway,
• 34:18
  Speaker 6: he'd give that iron fisted salute and so forth. But
• 34:22
  Speaker 6: he was getting attention, and that's what he wanted, uh
• 34:26
  Speaker 6: Not only though there there was one exception, and I
• 34:30
  Speaker 6: didn't see that he uh got two out of out
• 34:34
  Speaker 6: of line on that. But that's when when the FBI
• 34:37
  Speaker 6: agent James Hosti came in and he was a little
• 34:40
  Speaker 6: perturbed with Hostage going out and talked to his wife
• 34:42
  Speaker 6: when he wasn't there. But outside of that one one
• 34:45
  Speaker 6: little episode, and I didn't hear what he said to Hostige, really,
• 34:49
  Speaker 6: but I could see through the if they're been in
• 34:52
  Speaker 6: that office up there, the uh the Captain's office has
• 34:56
  Speaker 6: a window that's about uh all four or five feet wide,
• 35:02
  Speaker 6: and I could see into the office. If I couldn't hear
• 35:04
  Speaker 6: what was saying, but I noticed him uh talking and
• 35:07
  Speaker 6: pointing his finger asked for that. But what he was
• 35:10
  Speaker 6: said even then, I don't know, but I but I
• 35:12
  Speaker 6: did set in on some of the questions went when
• 35:16
  Speaker 6: the Secret Service talked to him, and the Postal inspector
• 35:18
  Speaker 6: talked to him, and uh uh someone else, three different
• 35:22
  Speaker 6: ones talked to him. I was in the room when
• 35:24
  Speaker 6: he when they talked to him. All of those times,
• 35:27
  Speaker 6: he never he never said anything or he'd answered the questions.
• 35:32
  Speaker 6: Uh dislike when when uh Holmes asked him about the
• 35:37
  Speaker 6: idea he had on him, he said, uh, did he
• 35:39
  Speaker 6: have you use the name a ideal and he said.
• 35:41
  Speaker 5: He said no.
• 35:42
  Speaker 6: And he said, well, do you know anybody name Hidelle?
• 35:45
  Speaker 6: And he said no and he said and he says, uh, uh,
• 35:50
  Speaker 6: we hadn't truth when you was arrested. You had an
• 35:52
  Speaker 6: identification for it with your picture on it, and they.
• 35:54
  Speaker 5: Hiddale on it. And he said, that's that's true.
• 35:57
  Speaker 6: Holmes asked him, said, well, how do you explain that?
• 35:59
  Speaker 6: He said an adult just like that, So it wasn't true.
• 36:03
  Speaker 6: He wasn't smart, Ana, but he just didn't answer. So
• 36:07
  Speaker 6: that's to me, that wasn't being be later that you
• 36:10
  Speaker 6: just should I don't just.
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: Licked interesting interesting. It was calm composed answer the questions
• 36:27
  Speaker 4: he liked to answer, which is Oswalt like, yeah, what
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: are your thoughts on that video?
• 36:34
  Speaker 5: Rough?
• 36:37
  Speaker 4: Hear meter, I guess see, I just see you now.
• 36:45
  Speaker 5: Yeah. So with Laville, like you said, he was h
• 36:51
  Speaker 5: He started to come out more of a shell back
• 36:54
  Speaker 5: in the late eighties nineties, and he was he was
• 36:58
  Speaker 5: very friendly with researchers. He would he would meet with them,
• 37:01
  Speaker 5: he would answer their questions, he would make presentations, he
• 37:04
  Speaker 5: would travel I was looking through the Wisburg Archives earlier today,
• 37:09
  Speaker 5: and he had there. There's quite a lengthy back and
• 37:15
  Speaker 5: forth between Harold Wiseburg and Levell.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 37:19
  Speaker 5: There's even talk of when Lavell and his wife came
• 37:23
  Speaker 5: up to visit their daughter in Virginia, they drove one
• 37:26
  Speaker 5: up to Maryland and uh, you know, Wiseburg has given
• 37:30
  Speaker 5: them directions on how to get to his house, you know,
• 37:32
  Speaker 5: and the letter and all this and uh he actually
• 37:36
  Speaker 5: came up there and visited with Harold for a long
• 37:38
  Speaker 5: time and and and talked about different things, and Harold
• 37:42
  Speaker 5: really really liked him and his wife. They became friends
• 37:46
  Speaker 5: and kept on corresponding until I guess he died, Harold
• 37:49
  Speaker 5: that is.
• 37:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 37:53
  Speaker 5: But yeah, I mean again, this guy led a fascinating
• 37:58
  Speaker 5: long life and you know a couple of seconds in history,
• 38:03
  Speaker 5: and he's ever, ever infamous for it. You know, I'm
• 38:08
  Speaker 5: sure like when you visited the sixth floor, his his suit,
• 38:13
  Speaker 5: the tan khaki suit is in there. Oh really, yeah, yep.
• 38:20
  Speaker 5: And it's it's like on a cardboard cutout mannequin type
• 38:24
  Speaker 5: thing of him.
• 38:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 38:27
  Speaker 5: And uh, you know they have the Jack Ruby suit
• 38:29
  Speaker 5: and the and the hat and and the gun and
• 38:32
  Speaker 5: the handcuffs and all that stuff is there, man, So
• 38:36
  Speaker 5: it's it's pretty cool. It's pretty cool. And unfortunately, this guy,
• 38:41
  Speaker 5: despite living a long life, never wrote a book, never
• 38:45
  Speaker 5: came out with any sensational gotcha moments from the past.
• 38:51
  Speaker 5: He pretty much told the told the same story for
• 38:54
  Speaker 5: as long as he's living.
• 38:56
  Speaker 4: You just stole the words out of my mouth, really
• 38:59
  Speaker 4: like Ruth pain like right, just tuck to his kind
• 39:02
  Speaker 4: of story. You know. There's some little tidbits in some
• 39:06
  Speaker 4: interviews and oral histories, but for the most part, kept
• 39:11
  Speaker 4: the same story, right, yeah, yeah, and yes, yes, Sally,
• 39:17
  Speaker 4: he did. I don't know if he reinterviewed, but he
• 39:20
  Speaker 4: did interview Vicky Adams. I believe it was in February
• 39:24
  Speaker 4: nineteen sixty four. I had that document I was looking at,
• 39:27
  Speaker 4: but we are condensing.
• 39:29
  Speaker 5: Working for Fritz's homicide department. I don't think this guy
• 39:32
  Speaker 5: was a saint in any form or fashion when it
• 39:37
  Speaker 5: came to his cop duties. I'm sure he was a
• 39:42
  Speaker 5: good soldier and did what he was told right to do. Right.
• 39:46
  Speaker 4: I think that's exactly the word to describe him. A soldier,
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: a soldier, a company man. And you know, I would
• 39:56
  Speaker 4: love to be a fly on the wall for the
• 39:59
  Speaker 4: first conversation with him and Lee before host he came
• 40:06
  Speaker 4: in and Oswalk got all upset, which we have covered
• 40:09
  Speaker 4: recently in our hosting episode. But he's kind of like
• 40:16
  Speaker 4: Pinky Westbrook Forrest Gump type in terms of his activities
• 40:21
  Speaker 4: that weekend.
• 40:22
  Speaker 5: Huh yeah, yeah, among others, among others. So let's get
• 40:28
  Speaker 5: into some of these others, Joe, Okay, let's do it.
• 40:31
  Speaker 5: And I've got three different things here from the HSCA
• 40:35
  Speaker 5: investigators who went back and interviewed a lot of these
• 40:38
  Speaker 5: DPD guys. And the first one up is Captain Jack Revel. Okay, yeah,
• 40:47
  Speaker 5: and this is in May of seventy eight, says currently
• 40:50
  Speaker 5: the captain of the Internal Affairs Unit at the DPD.
• 40:55
  Speaker 5: This man was very receptive to my visit and we
• 40:57
  Speaker 5: discussed the jfk assassination at link, he advised, despite the
• 41:02
  Speaker 5: fact that he'd had occasion to speak to other investigators
• 41:04
  Speaker 5: from our committee, he doesn't recall many details, but is
• 41:08
  Speaker 5: ready to assist however he can. He has nothing to hide.
• 41:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's who sent the famous James Herbert Martin
• 41:20
  Speaker 4: direct line to the White House or received it.
• 41:24
  Speaker 5: Yeah, although he couldn't recall two of the earlier investigators
• 41:28
  Speaker 5: from the HSCA that he had talked to. One was
• 41:31
  Speaker 5: black and the other white. He does remember speaking with
• 41:34
  Speaker 5: Jim Kelly and was able to give him some info
• 41:36
  Speaker 5: ri the Cuban aspect. It seems that he was the
• 41:40
  Speaker 5: intelligence lieutenant in November of nineteen sixty three and keeping
• 41:44
  Speaker 5: tabs on such groups was part of his normal function.
• 41:47
  Speaker 5: He was able to find his old Cuban source, or
• 41:49
  Speaker 5: at least his last known address, and had no qualms
• 41:53
  Speaker 5: about giving it to Kelly. Not certain about the value
• 41:56
  Speaker 5: of this contribution, he hastens to add that it was
• 41:59
  Speaker 5: a long time ago and he hasn't had occasion to
• 42:02
  Speaker 5: jog his memory except once, and that was early last
• 42:06
  Speaker 5: month when he contacted Paul McCarron on his return from Washington, DC.
• 42:12
  Speaker 5: And now McCarran is a guy we're gonna be talking
• 42:14
  Speaker 5: about in part two next week on members only, but
• 42:21
  Speaker 5: he factors in very interestingly interestingly into the conversation here
• 42:27
  Speaker 5: now they say McCarran responded to our offices inquiry the
• 42:30
  Speaker 5: Tuesday after Easter this year and spent the day answering
• 42:33
  Speaker 5: questions and then interpreting the files. He surrendered on subpoena
• 42:39
  Speaker 5: to us. He and mccarrin they worked as partners. They
• 42:43
  Speaker 5: were members of a quote special squad joe.
• 42:49
  Speaker 4: Huh, a compartmentalized unit.
• 42:52
  Speaker 5: Yeah. And the other members of this special squad were
• 42:57
  Speaker 5: Captain Pinky Westbrook Wow, Captain Oa Jones, Lieutenant Cecil Wallace,
• 43:06
  Speaker 5: and Lieutenant Frank cornwall As of now, he's the only
• 43:10
  Speaker 5: active member of the special Squad. The rest have hired.
• 43:16
  Speaker 4: So the HSCA had to subpoena this dude.
• 43:22
  Speaker 5: No, they subpoened mcerren's things, Okay. Mcern reminded him of
• 43:29
  Speaker 5: his trip out of town to interview A Helen Smith
• 43:33
  Speaker 5: and erstwhile Ruby Stripper, which he had completely forgotten about.
• 43:37
  Speaker 5: They also discussed mcern's possession of files that he rebel
• 43:43
  Speaker 5: considers to be DPD property. He didn't indicate what disposition
• 43:48
  Speaker 5: he contemplated, and I didn't inquire he had discovered this
• 43:52
  Speaker 5: when the local newspapers carried the story describing the acquisition
• 43:55
  Speaker 5: of these records by our committee. So again, there's much
• 43:58
  Speaker 5: more to the mccarrien's story. We'll get into that next Wednesday.
• 44:02
  Speaker 5: He advised further. After he testified to the Warrant Commission
• 44:05
  Speaker 5: in DC that he was given a copy of his
• 44:07
  Speaker 5: own testimony, but to this day hadn't bothered to read it.
• 44:12
  Speaker 5: I suggested that he do so and we might talk
• 44:15
  Speaker 5: again after that. He said he would and would look
• 44:17
  Speaker 5: forward to having another session with me. He is on
• 44:20
  Speaker 5: leave the balance of this work, and we'll try to
• 44:24
  Speaker 5: read it during that time. In any event, he'll call
• 44:27
  Speaker 5: me and we'll contact those retired men mentioned earlier, as
• 44:31
  Speaker 5: some are no longer in Dallas. So that is Captain
• 44:38
  Speaker 5: Jack Revel. Next up, we got LD. Stringfellow aka Leonard
• 44:49
  Speaker 5: Don Stringfellow.
• 44:51
  Speaker 4: Yeh also a member of the Criminal Intelligence Division.
• 44:54
  Speaker 5: Correct now Old LD by nineteen seventy seven had retired
• 45:00
  Speaker 5: from the force and was living in Wickenberg, Arizona. Interview
• 45:05
  Speaker 5: Mister Stringfellow was interviewed by investigators Brown and Daily in Dallas, Texas.
• 45:10
  Speaker 5: Stringfellow is a former DPD detective assigned to the Intelligence Division.
• 45:15
  Speaker 5: According to an FBI report, which is the only official
• 45:18
  Speaker 5: report of Hall's arrest, mister Stringfellow notified the FBI that
• 45:23
  Speaker 5: a person who was under arrest desired to talk to them.
• 45:26
  Speaker 4: Lauren Halls.
• 45:27
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so this is what we're talking about here, they're
• 45:31
  Speaker 5: narrowing you on a Hall, because when Hall was arrested
• 45:35
  Speaker 5: in October sixty three by the Dallas Police on the
• 45:40
  Speaker 5: narcotics charge, he asked to speak to someone from the FBI,
• 45:47
  Speaker 5: much like Oswald requested to teat to somebody from the
• 45:50
  Speaker 5: FBI in New Orleans.
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: Okay, not as interesting as hell.
• 45:56
  Speaker 5: So Stringfellow notified the FBI that a person who was
• 46:00
  Speaker 5: under arrest desired to talk to them, and further amplifies
• 46:05
  Speaker 5: that he verified a local TV station giving film to
• 46:08
  Speaker 5: Hall for usage inside Cuba. Whatever that means, Yeah, I'm
• 46:19
  Speaker 5: trying to figure that out. I don't know. Strange. Fellow
• 46:24
  Speaker 5: was shown copies of the arrest report concerning Hall and Seymour,
• 46:29
  Speaker 5: but he only vaguely recalled this incident. He was unable
• 46:34
  Speaker 5: to recall any further details concerning the notification of intelligence
• 46:37
  Speaker 5: agencies on behalf of the subjects. He amplified upon the
• 46:43
  Speaker 5: basic procedures which were in usage in October sixty three,
• 46:47
  Speaker 5: and gave the investigators some names of the personnel who
• 46:51
  Speaker 5: would have been involved in set arrest procedures, plus those
• 46:55
  Speaker 5: who were involved in the investigation of Oswalt. He refers
• 46:59
  Speaker 5: to two cooperative FBI men assigned to the Dallas office,
• 47:04
  Speaker 5: one named Ike Lee and the other name Bob Barrett,
• 47:09
  Speaker 5: as those who they had the most dealings with. He
• 47:13
  Speaker 5: feels now as he did at the time, that the
• 47:16
  Speaker 5: shooting of the president was due mainly to a Cuban
• 47:20
  Speaker 5: connection with an undercurrent of communist leanings. He feels that
• 47:28
  Speaker 5: Oswald at the time he shot Tippett was attempting to
• 47:31
  Speaker 5: contact someone to assist him in getting to Cuba. He
• 47:37
  Speaker 5: doesn't have any name who helped Oswald or whom helped
• 47:42
  Speaker 5: Oswald might have been seeking. He feels strongly that Marina
• 47:46
  Speaker 5: Oswald knew all about Oswald's activities and is just playing dumb.
• 47:58
  Speaker 5: The day that Ruby shot Oswald, Stringfellow was called at
• 48:01
  Speaker 5: home and told to come to the office and get
• 48:05
  Speaker 5: out the file, the intelligence file on Ruby. He did
• 48:09
  Speaker 5: and turned it over to some chief in quotes and
• 48:12
  Speaker 5: has not seen it since it being the file showed
• 48:18
  Speaker 5: Ruby as a homosexual, dance hall operator and a general character.
• 48:26
  Speaker 4: Wow, so that's in the DPD Criminal Intelligence Division files,
• 48:31
  Speaker 4: that Ruby file.
• 48:32
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 48:32
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 48:35
  Speaker 5: He was a noted name dropper who would like to
• 48:38
  Speaker 5: have been a big shot. He was unaware of any
• 48:41
  Speaker 5: particular organized crime family to which he might have belonged.
• 48:46
  Speaker 5: Further states that he was a pimp who would buy
• 48:49
  Speaker 5: hot merchandise. Dallas PD apparently conducted an extensive investigation into
• 49:02
  Speaker 5: a possible Oswald Ruby connection. He can give no specific reason,
• 49:06
  Speaker 5: but he firmly believes that the shooting of the president
• 49:08
  Speaker 5: stems from a conspiracy of some sort. He states that
• 49:12
  Speaker 5: he'll never be convinced otherwise, although he does not possess
• 49:16
  Speaker 5: any concrete information for this belief, it's just his experiences.
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 49:23
  Speaker 5: So based on everything he went through and saw and heard,
• 49:28
  Speaker 5: we have del D. Stringfellow convinced that there was a
• 49:31
  Speaker 5: conspiracy that day and it wasn't just Oswald alone.
• 49:36
  Speaker 4: That is interesting. And I just had one question for
• 49:39
  Speaker 4: you because you mentioned Seymour, which of course was William
• 49:43
  Speaker 4: Seymour of inter Pen. Right, was he arrested with Hall
• 49:48
  Speaker 4: on that drug charge in sixty three?
• 49:51
  Speaker 5: He was, yeah, all right, yeah.
• 49:53
  Speaker 4: And also an alleged possible person that was playing oswalt
• 50:00
  Speaker 4: Or in the audio incident, right or yeah?
• 50:04
  Speaker 5: Now, Lords Howard wasn't with them at this time, so
• 50:06
  Speaker 5: he was not arrested. But Hal and Seymour were, and
• 50:11
  Speaker 5: it was Lester Low that paid to get them out
• 50:14
  Speaker 5: of jail. Right right, it's a very interesting Next up, Joe,
• 50:24
  Speaker 5: we got Billy Lee Bass.
• 50:27
  Speaker 4: Oh, I am not familiar with this Dallas badass.
• 50:31
  Speaker 5: Billy Lee Bass does have a certain rank to it,
• 50:36
  Speaker 5: all right. So he was interviewed in November seventy seven
• 50:42
  Speaker 5: at Dallas Police Headquarters. At the time, he's living in Mesquite, Texas.
• 50:49
  Speaker 5: Dated birth for seventeen thirty two. He spent twenty three
• 50:53
  Speaker 5: and a half years on the Dallas Police Department, presently
• 50:57
  Speaker 5: assigned to the Legal Liaison Unit. Sound sauce, Yeah, Billy
• 51:09
  Speaker 5: Lee Bass.
• 51:11
  Speaker 4: So.
• 51:13
  Speaker 5: Billy Lee Bass stated that on November twenty seven, nineteen
• 51:17
  Speaker 5: sixty three, he was assigned to a one man car
• 51:22
  Speaker 5: on patrol, much like Tippett one man car. Normally they
• 51:28
  Speaker 5: had partners, but because of the thinness of the force
• 51:35
  Speaker 5: that day, you know, a lot of these guys were
• 51:37
  Speaker 5: forced to do one man patrols and cars. He says
• 51:42
  Speaker 5: he was assigned either car twenty one or one oh one,
• 51:45
  Speaker 5: He can't remember exactly which. He had come into town
• 51:49
  Speaker 5: in company with another officer name unknown to book, a prisoner.
• 51:54
  Speaker 5: Bass cannot remember if he drove his car or the
• 51:57
  Speaker 5: other officer drove come of. Okay, well, you know, at
• 52:02
  Speaker 5: this point, Joe, it's been twenty three years. Yeah, but
• 52:06
  Speaker 5: you know, he just he was a brand new officer
• 52:10
  Speaker 5: in sixty three, like he'd been there. Okay, So I
• 52:14
  Speaker 5: mean his memory is a little fuzzy, but he says.
• 52:21
  Speaker 5: After having the subject booked, the officers headed back to
• 52:24
  Speaker 5: their work area and they stopped for the motorcade at
• 52:27
  Speaker 5: Cedar Springs. After arriving back in their area, they got
• 52:31
  Speaker 5: into their own vehicles, so they separated again. He was
• 52:37
  Speaker 5: cruising south on Harry Hines Boulevard, nearing Wolf Street when
• 52:41
  Speaker 5: the dispatcher came on the air and told Bass to
• 52:44
  Speaker 5: report to Elman Houston Code three, which is an emergency.
• 52:51
  Speaker 5: After driving several blocks, Bass asked the dispatcher what the
• 52:54
  Speaker 5: nature of the call was. The dispatcher said, either shooting
• 52:58
  Speaker 5: at the president or shots fired at the president. The
• 53:01
  Speaker 5: dispatcher ordered all available squads to report to Elman Houston.
• 53:07
  Speaker 5: Bass said that he believes that he was one of
• 53:08
  Speaker 5: the first units to arrive at the scene. He parked
• 53:11
  Speaker 5: his car headed north at the west southwest corner of
• 53:15
  Speaker 5: the school book Depository. He took the shotgun out of
• 53:19
  Speaker 5: his car. Everybody was running around in mass confusion. Somebody
• 53:26
  Speaker 5: pointed to the TSBD and said he's still in the building,
• 53:30
  Speaker 5: meaning the shooter. So Bass took a position on the
• 53:34
  Speaker 5: southwest corner of the school book depository so that he
• 53:38
  Speaker 5: could see anyone running out of the building. Somebody, Bass
• 53:42
  Speaker 5: said it may have been. Sergeant Harkness said three men
• 53:46
  Speaker 5: ran down the railroad yard and got into a green car.
• 53:51
  Speaker 5: So Detective Harkness, Marvin Wise, Roy Vaughan, and Bass ran
• 53:58
  Speaker 5: down the railroad tracks about order of a mile to
• 54:00
  Speaker 5: the green cars. Roy Vaughan climbed up the ladder on
• 54:05
  Speaker 5: one of the cars and saw three men huddled in
• 54:07
  Speaker 5: the corner of the freight car. Vaughn ordered the men
• 54:12
  Speaker 5: out onto the ground, and the men cursed at Vaughn said,
• 54:15
  Speaker 5: fuck you.
• 54:19
  Speaker 4: These are, of course the three traps we're getting there.
• 54:22
  Speaker 4: Joe okay uh.
• 54:27
  Speaker 5: Officer Vaughan then jacked a shell into the chamber of
• 54:29
  Speaker 5: a shotgun, which immediately shut the men up. He pointed
• 54:34
  Speaker 5: it at the men and ordered them out of the car.
• 54:37
  Speaker 5: When the men got onto the ground, they were given
• 54:39
  Speaker 5: a good old pat down for weapons, but none were found,
• 54:43
  Speaker 5: not even a gun in the lunch sack that the
• 54:45
  Speaker 5: old guy was carrying.
• 54:48
  Speaker 4: Damn, Frank Sturgis Chauncey Holt must have got rid of
• 54:52
  Speaker 4: the guns before they went.
• 54:53
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that's a joke.
• 54:55
  Speaker 4: I'm being surcasted.
• 54:57
  Speaker 5: The men were marched up the railroad tracks all the
• 55:00
  Speaker 5: way to Elm Street, across the front of the school
• 55:02
  Speaker 5: book depository, across the street to the county jail, and
• 55:05
  Speaker 5: turned over to a deputy sheriff name unknown. Bass went
• 55:11
  Speaker 5: back to the front of the school book depository, and
• 55:13
  Speaker 5: shortly thereafter I heard a call come over to the
• 55:15
  Speaker 5: police radio that an officer had been shot in Oak Cliff.
• 55:20
  Speaker 5: Now it's it's not really hard a stretch to understand.
• 55:24
  Speaker 5: These are DPD officers. They're turning this guy over, or
• 55:28
  Speaker 5: he's turned these three prisoners over at the jail to
• 55:31
  Speaker 5: the sheriff's office. So they might not know these people
• 55:34
  Speaker 5: that worked to the sheriff's office, you know, their deputy officers.
• 55:38
  Speaker 5: Bass is fairly new. Yeah who they are you know?
• 55:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely possible.
• 55:45
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, police officers have been shot in Oak Cliff.
• 55:51
  Speaker 5: So Bass stated that he couldn't get his car out
• 55:54
  Speaker 5: of the parking jam up to get to Oak Cliff,
• 55:56
  Speaker 5: so he stayed around the area of the southward corner
• 56:00
  Speaker 5: of the school book depository until five PM, when an
• 56:06
  Speaker 5: order came out for the day shift officers to report
• 56:09
  Speaker 5: to the garage.
• 56:11
  Speaker 4: Wow, so he's there for hours and hours and hours
• 56:18
  Speaker 4: after all the you know, everything happens, you know. Yeah,
• 56:24
  Speaker 4: that's crazy, that's crazy.
• 56:26
  Speaker 5: To his knowledge, no other box cars were searched after
• 56:29
  Speaker 5: the three men were apprehended. He observed that the three
• 56:32
  Speaker 5: men had hobo type clothing on, but from the neck
• 56:35
  Speaker 5: up were clean shaven and had decent haircuts. The men
• 56:39
  Speaker 5: did not say anything else while being taken to the
• 56:41
  Speaker 5: sheriff's office. Now what's interesting to me is Joe. I
• 56:47
  Speaker 5: always thought that the arrest of the tramps happened somewhere
• 56:55
  Speaker 5: past two o'clock, given the timing of everything where people were.
• 57:05
  Speaker 5: But according to Bass, the arrest of the tramps happens
• 57:11
  Speaker 5: before the call comes out about the Tippet shooting.
• 57:17
  Speaker 4: Which would be around one one, twenty one fifty yeah, yeah,
• 57:22
  Speaker 4: one fifteen yeah whatever. Yeah.
• 57:25
  Speaker 5: So that tells me that these tramps were arrested much
• 57:29
  Speaker 5: much sooner than I originally thought. I mean, I don't
• 57:34
  Speaker 5: know why I had it in my head. It wasn't
• 57:36
  Speaker 5: until after after oswald Is is arrested at the Texas
• 57:42
  Speaker 5: Theater and the tramps are arrested. But according to the
• 57:47
  Speaker 5: one of the arresting officers, it happens before the call
• 57:51
  Speaker 5: comes through for the Tippitt shooting.
• 57:52
  Speaker 7: So kind of interesting, yeahoth Timothy Ryan agrees way earlier. Yeah, yeah,
• 58:03
  Speaker 7: that is uh, that is very interesting.
• 58:05
  Speaker 4: And I wonder if I mean, they're of course not
• 58:09
  Speaker 4: like metadata then right when you can like find but
• 58:12
  Speaker 4: I wonder if we could find out the exact time.
• 58:15
  Speaker 4: Maybe we'll follow up on that of of when they
• 58:19
  Speaker 4: were kind of photographed being shuffled along, right.
• 58:25
  Speaker 5: Well, they had to be photographs, you know, before the
• 58:31
  Speaker 5: tip of shooting.
• 58:32
  Speaker 4: Right right. Yeah, and that's you know, less than forty
• 58:38
  Speaker 4: five minutes after the assassination, right yeah.
• 58:46
  Speaker 5: But uh, that's it for our DPD versus the HSCA
• 58:51
  Speaker 5: for this evening. There's much much more to talk about here,
• 58:54
  Speaker 5: and we will do so on next Wednesday's members only show.
• 59:00
  Speaker 5: So if you are not a member yet, you may
• 59:03
  Speaker 5: want to sign up, folks. Yes, now, Joe, with some
• 59:08
  Speaker 5: time that we have left.
• 59:09
  Speaker 4: Here, Yeah, we're on We're on time, man for once
• 59:14
  Speaker 4: like that. I like it. I do.
• 59:18
  Speaker 5: We'd be more than happy to answer questions live if
• 59:20
  Speaker 5: you have any. If not, that's fine too.
• 59:23
  Speaker 4: Mm hmm. So see, yeah, seeing my happy birthday. And yeah,
• 59:33
  Speaker 4: I hope you've been paying attention and writing some stuff
• 59:35
  Speaker 4: down the lack Let's see what uh mister Dave says.
• 59:42
  Speaker 4: The lack of written documentation by these officers is incompetent,
• 59:47
  Speaker 4: even in the most routine circumstances. Yeah, it's kind of convenient.
• 59:51
  Speaker 4: How a lot of them don't remember who they were
• 59:54
  Speaker 4: driving with or a lot of other details. We covered
• 59:58
  Speaker 4: this episode, right, I don't remember type of thing.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean they were just rounding people up at
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 5: the time, suspicious people and handing them off. And of
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 5: course we didn't have the three Tramps arrest reports for
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 5: thirty some years until they were found the late eighties
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 5: and early nineties with Fontaines, so very interesting.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, no, a lot of these like I had
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 4: never heard about Bass or some of these other people,
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 4: and I did not know Stringfellow really felt that there
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 4: was a conspiracy. That is extremely interesting.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and Revel he's apparently what he's he missed well.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 5: I don't know if he misquoted Hosty, but he made
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 5: some very inflammatory comments about the f B I to
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 5: the to the to the news media in Dallas, you know,
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 5: basically saying that, you know, it's hosties. And the FBI
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 5: has fought that Oswald's up through the cracks and was
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 5: able to do what he did, And the FBI retaliated
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 5: against the DPD for years because back then, I guess
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 5: the FBI had folks that would travel around for a
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 5: phenomenal fee to different localities and give talks about, you know,
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 5: how to do better investigating. You know, new techniques for fingerprinting,
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 5: you know, new techniques to track people down, things like this.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 5: You could send people to like Quantico, you know, to
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 5: the FBI trading grounds to be more trained in specific
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 5: areas of investigation. And the FBI Hoover in particular, said, yep,
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 5: you know, screw you, Dallas. We're not gonna, we're gonna,
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 5: we're gonna participate in your reindeer games anymore. We're not
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 5: coming to train your people. You're not sending your people
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 5: to us. We're done. You figure it out, basically, and
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 5: that was their stance for many years at least ten years,
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 5: so that's crazy.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah. And also on our Wednesday show, we're gonna get
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 4: into uh Charles Rogers and uh and Mike Nally whose
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 4: uncle was a motorcycle policeman the Merbarcade and the HSCA
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 4: could not locate him as well.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 5: Yeah, a very interesting story to tell. So yeah, all right,
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 5: we got a question here from Jack. Hey, Joe, do
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 5: you all think the arrest reports on the tramps found
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 5: in the eighties are sus always seemed to me that
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 5: they were conveniently found to explain the tramp pick. I
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 5: don't think it's sus. I think it's just incompetence. Again,
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 5: it's something that once the FBI took over the investigation,
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 5: you know, the for the Warrant Commission and the FBI,
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 5: they couldn't didn't really have access to DPD files and reports, right,
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 5: and they could ask for them, but you know, if
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 5: they could have been told, look, we can't find them,
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 5: we don't know where they are, and they get shuffled
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 5: lost in the shuffle in a box somewhere, because not
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 5: only could they not find the arrest reports on the tramps,
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 5: I mean, you know, they couldn't find the reports for
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 5: like John L. Rod and other people who were in
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 5: jail and were arrested that day. And I don't know
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 5: that it sucks because I don't think I think the
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 5: tramps were who they said they were. I don't think
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 5: it was Chauncey Holt or Frank Sturgis or E. Howard
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 5: Hunt or uh Charles Harrelson and Charles Rogers and all
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 5: these people whoever they think they are, or Freddie Crispin,
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 5: whoever people think these tramps were up to something. I
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 5: think they were just that they were just in the
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 5: wrong place at the wrong time.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah. I think it's been a huge distraction that has
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 4: been recycled so many decades over.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 5: Like we wouldn't know anything about them unless these fools
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 5: were paraded through Daly Plaza in front of all the
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 5: media and newspaper men taking pictures of the scene. You know,
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 5: if they had gone around the edges or around the back,
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 5: or we would even tramps existed ever.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 4: Right around like Lee Bauers's tower, right where he was.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 5: Gearson made a big deal about you know, these three
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 5: people were arrested in Dealey Plays on November twenty second,
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 5: and we don't know who they were when he's on
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 5: Johnny Carson, So yeah, I don't do there's anything sus
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 5: to it. I think it's just incompetence and getting lost
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 5: in the shuffle type thing, right.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 4: I agree with you there, Sadly has a good question.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 4: Do we know which GPD officer shot and killed John
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 4: Liggett the mortetician? Be interesting to know they were connected
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 4: to the twenty second And I don't know much about this,
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 4: so I'm going to give it to you.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 5: Yeah. I don't know anything about this story either, but
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 5: Joke has certainly write it down and we'll check into it.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 4: Writing it down.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 5: I guessing John Liggett was the one that and balmed
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 5: Lee Harvey Oswald, right, And I don't know about that
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 5: story about maybe he's the guy that said I don't
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 5: think he was the guy though that said something about
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 5: the FBI people coming to fingerprint Oswald dead.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 4: I don't know, right right right? I believe that was
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 4: in the many who the men who kill Kennedy? Right?
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 5: Yeah, the name doesn't sound right.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 4: We'll look into it and we'll get back here on Wednesday.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 4: Let's see, uh uh if there's anything else.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 5: Yep, we got one from Scott here. When you think
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 5: about Dylan garbologist aj Weberman's book on the Tramps. I
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 5: think they're a victim of the times Scott at the
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 5: time that book was written. Again, it was Garrison who
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 5: put these people's photographs up on national television asking questions
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 5: about him. So at the time time, all they have
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 5: is pictures to go on, and of course people do
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 5: what they do with photographic evidence, and you know, put
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 5: different theories forth, and at the time, nobody had access
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 5: to the real arrest reports and the real identity of
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 5: these people, these tramps. Right, of course, hindsight is twenty
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 5: twenty and the book just doesn't hold up. It's total horseshit.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 4: But yeah, yeah, you only have to go to his
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 4: Twitter feed to see how ridiculous his still encouraging these
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 4: the triump story, which I just think is a huge distraction.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 4: And Scio.
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 5: This guys also refused to come on the show at
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 5: the time because apparently he thought I was anti Semitic
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 5: for something, and he didn't want to come on my show.
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 5: I was like, okay, don't know where you get that from,
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 5: but okay.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 4: Apparently Shabbert and Juline I says Leggett worked on Kennedy
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 4: not Oswalt. We'll have to confirm that. But apparently Sally
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 4: says came into a lot of money, left Dallas for
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 4: a few days, and came back after Lee Hervey Oswald
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 4: was shot.
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 5: So I mean, who so much Dallas went to d
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 5: C to do Kennedy's autopsy and then was killed by
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 5: a DPD officer. Is that what we're saying here?
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 4: I'm not sure I'm gonna I'm looking it up, but uh, yeah, no,
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 4: that's why we follow up on these things. We don't
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 4: know every single person or story, but uh. John Leggett
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 4: more commonly spelled John Liggett, appears in JFK assassination conspiracy
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 4: theories as a Dallas area mortetician and balmer who worked
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 4: at Wrestland Funeral Home. According to various conspiracy claims featured
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 4: in Manhuko Kennedy and books like Tim Fleming's book The
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 4: President's mor Morticisi, Leggott was allegedly involved in altering or
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 4: helping cover up evidence related to JFK's body after the assassination.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 4: Key elements of these theories include Liggett was reportedly summoned
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 4: at or present at Parkland Hospital shortly after JK was
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 4: brought in. I don't know about that. Claims suggest he
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 4: may have assisted in body alteration, reconstructor reconstructing or modifying
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 4: wounds to hide evidence, sometimes him to intelligence connections, contract killing,
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 4: or figures like George de Morenshiel. Again, this is kind
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 4: of like a little bit of a stretch for me
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 4: here as I read this, and I just asked roc,
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 4: so take that for what it is. He reportedly disappeared
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 4: briefly after the assassination, returned looking to shoveled it. Later
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 4: became infamous for other crimes linked to murders and body
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 4: reconstruction in unrelated cases. These are unsubstantiated fringe theories with
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 4: no credible evidence allegedly.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 5: So, I don't know that sounds like a good topic
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 5: for a future show, Joe.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, we can get into it, maybe, yeah, maybe kind
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 4: of debunk it or or give it some credence. I
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 4: don't know. We don't. We don't have a we look
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 4: at horse in the race, right, So good questions we
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 4: have any else before we go? No? All right, Well,
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 4: we appreciate you guys tuning in and for all your support.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 4: Please do all this YouTube stuff as in liking the
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 4: show sharing hyping.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 5: If you're brave enough to share it in Facebook groups,
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 5: go ahead. Yes, we very much appreciate it.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 4: Yes, and even your views and support of the show
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 4: is appreciated by us more than you know. And yeah, Rob,
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 4: I think that's all I have. Let me see if
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 4: I can mute it and pretend that I'm signing off,
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 4: so you know who can come in. He did not
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 4: talk for the record, but he said come to Bourbon Street.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 5: And that's it for us. That's a show or two
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 5: next Wednesday. Numbers only. Book review is going to be
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 5: next week. Just remembers on all memory, including his poops.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 5: There's Ruby in a burbery scarf, Ruby, bloodily rich and Connecticut.
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 4: It's it's cold out here.
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: So it could be used for him or against him
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: in this strange Thank you, folks, it's important.
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 5: Thank you take your changes to this show, and uh,
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 5: let's see how it goes from You're out the next week, folks, Rob,
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 5: Big Bad, Bob and Kobe and Ruby. This has been
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 5: the lonegoming podcast and we'll see you next week.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 4: Thank you,