Latest / Cait & Court's Cozy Corner: Romance Readers / Repost: Our Talk with author Joss Richard about "It's Different This Time"

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Repost: Our Talk with author Joss Richard about "It's Different This Time" · Cait & Court's Cozy Corner: Romance Readers

• Caitlin Stryker: HI! This is a podcast for lovers of romance and romantasy novels who want to go on a deep dive into their favorite genre. Honest discussions and salacious details giving romance books the respect they deserve. We are two friends, actors, moms and romance readers who like a bit of spice and everything nice in their books. Welcome back to Cait and Court's Cozy Corner, readers. ⁓ We have our first ever guest today. We are so excited. It is author Joss Richard here to talk to us about her debut novel, which is also a bestseller called It's Different This Time. Joss has worked at companies like Netflix and Hello Sunshine. She's been recognized by the daytime Emmys and she's a fellow Canadian gal. And that is not even her whole biography. I just cut it down for us. Hi Joss, thanks for joining us. Courtney: Mm-hmm. Thanks for tuning in to Cait and Court's Cozy Corner Romance Readers. Caitlin Stryker: Executive producers and hosts, Caitlin Stryker and Courtney Richter. Producer, Canasia Ngo. Original music, Cassie De Silva. Courtney: Hahaha Joss Richard: Hi, Caitlin. Hi, Courtney. It is so lovely to be here. I'm so excited and I'm honored to be your first guest. This is, I hope I set the bar. Caitlin Stryker: Hi, I'm Cait Courtney: Yes, well already high. You've already set a high bar just by appearing so it's off to good start. Caitlin Stryker: I think you will. Courtney: And I'm Court. Welcome to Cait and Court's Cozy Corner Romance Readers. Joss Richard: Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: You Okay, so ⁓ I have to tell you, I loved your book so much. ⁓ a major fangirl of this one. ⁓ was like a cozy fall hug read. ⁓ I just wanted to live in it. I literally wanted to live in it because who doesn't want to live in that brownstone? ⁓ Courtney: ⁓ my gosh. Joss Richard: Thank you. Courtney: As we like to say, you don't need spice for a book to be good. Well, you don't need running shoes to run, but they sure do help. Yes. Joss Richard: Truly, truly, I would like to live in that brownstone. Courtney: The house porn in this book is high. It's very high. Just for that alone. Joss Richard: Hahaha Caitlin Stryker: Like, reading this book is way better than looking at Zillow before you go to bed. Joss Richard: ⁓ my God, thank you. That should be like the blurb on the book. Yeah. Courtney: Yes, that's what you've been missing. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: It really should. Yeah, instead of looking at syllable for a bit, read it's different this time. Joss Richard: Yeah. Courtney: ⁓ Caitlin Stryker: You know, I'm like going along and I was texting court. was like, this is amazing. This place. And I texted her at one point, this little text when we're reading books sometimes, a lot actually. And I'm like, ⁓ my gosh, I would live with anyone in this room. Courtney: Yeah. Yeah, I was like, literally anyone could be my roommate and I would possibly give up my husband and kids. Yeah, that's fine. It can come. Joss Richard: No, exactly. Okay, well, don't have to do that. yeah. But no, that's exactly why June wanted to live in that brownstone and why she didn't want to give it up because like it's, oh my God, like it's a brownstone in New York for this price. It's an amazing place. Like, so I'm glad that that was conveyed, that it was a steal. Caitlin Stryker: ⁓ yeah, and then as someone who has lived in New York before, was even like, it sounds totally un-plausible and yet that's the magic of New York. Like the wildest things can and do happen. Like stumbling upon a brownstone that some old man is just like, I just want someone living in it for next to nothing. Courtney: Mm-hmm. Joss Richard: I mean, no, you have to suspend your disbelief a little bit. But I mean, don't you have to for most books anyway? Yeah. Courtney: Just someone that loves it. Just someone that loves it. Caitlin Stryker: you Yes. Yes. Courtney: Yeah, it's totally fine. It's like the best suspended disbelief since Friends when they just like casually thrown at the end. ⁓ and the rent control in this apartment. Like it's just, it's that and it's great and we're here for it. It works very well. Yeah. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Joss Richard: That's a good point. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yep, that is actually the reference I thought of in my head as I was reading it too, as I like just gleefully suspended disbelief and went with this. And also I was kind of like, on the one hand, suspending disbelief and I was also like, what if I just throw some good old magical thinking in here and like just bring this into my world? And maybe it becomes like a real thing. Joss Richard: Yes, yes. Reading is like the best. Yeah, it's like reading it is manifesting it for the most part. Yeah, you're bringing that energy into your life. Courtney: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: Exactly. yeah yeah and then we were pretty deep into the we weren't deep into the we were like pretty well along and then all of a sudden she brings up that there's a claw foot tub Courtney: Yeah. Joss Richard: I know. Yeah. Courtney: I know. New York in a clawfoot tub. Like, you can tell you have spent time in New York. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: I died. I was, it was over for me. Cause I feel like Joss Richard: I know, that's my dream. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. I also, feel like the deal with a claw foot tub is a cloth, they're so deep that it's a tits and knees bath. You know, like both, like your tits and your knees get to be submerged at the same time. And that's the dream. Yeah. Joss Richard: ⁓ Courtney: Very important. Joss Richard: Tits and knees bath. I love that. But no, exactly. She is submerged into this bath. At least living in LA, I don't have that type of tub. Absolutely not. My tits and my knees are both out, both of them. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Courtney: Mm-hmm. but very much awkwardly trying to like get comfy Joss Richard: ⁓ I don't even have a big chest and that tells you how shallow my bathtub is. Yeah. Courtney: Hahaha Caitlin Stryker: Yeah It's just like basically a shower. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I mean, you can't, I feel like you just like, that was the biggest like right away for me with this book was just, it starts with the house porn. Before we go any further, ⁓ Joss, would you like to give us a synopsis of the book? It's different this time. Courtney: Yeah. Yeah. Joss Richard: pretty much. would be so happy to. So It's Different This Time is a second chance romance that takes place in New York in the fall. I have been told it gives Nora Efron vibes, so I am just going to lean into that. And it is about two former estranged roommates that are left the brownstone that they used to live in. And in order to inherit it, they have to live together for 30 days. And it's told in a dual timeline, so you get to find out what happened to them in the past, which brings them to the present. But yeah. Courtney: definitely. Joss Richard: That's it's different this time. Courtney: Yes, it's a, Cait, it's a, for you, for your terms, it's a forced proximity romance, is one of the tropes for this book. Second chance, as we go along here, Joss, I've been teaching Cait a lot of the terms in the romance world, because she was a new to romance reader when we started this. And this is our first forced proximity romance, and second chance one, I think, actually. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, with Adam and June. Go ahead. Joss Richard: Adam and June. Caitlin Stryker: ⁓ Joss Richard: Okay. ⁓ my gosh, exciting. Well, it's so funny because yes, I am totally leaning in to the second chance and the forced proximity and that is absolutely what it is marketed as and how people see it. But it's funny because it's different this time. It's like technically it's a second chance and then technically it's a forced proximity because, mean, spoiler, I assume we're going to be just talking about the book on this. Yeah, okay. Caitlin Stryker: Yes, it is. Yeah, you know what? We're just talking about the book, but we will say for anyone tuning in who hasn't read it yet, there's gonna be spoilers from here on out. So go read the book and join us. Yeah, if you don't mind spoilers. Courtney: Yes. Joss Richard: Yes. Courtney: Yes, go read it, come back, or listen and then go read, which is fine. You can know you have a guaranteed happy ending. That's okay. Joss Richard: Okay, yes. Yes. There we go. But I think the most important part for the second chance is they weren't technically together in the past, but I still think it qualifies as a second chance. And then for the fourth proximity, it's sort of their decision to live together. Like, kind of. It's more Adam putting it on June. So I guess he's forcing. Courtney: Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: Mmm. Courtney: Yeah. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Joss Richard: But it's not like, ⁓ my God, like these are the terms you have to live there for 30 days. Caitlin Stryker: Right, right, but I would also say... Courtney: No, that's true. It's not like stuck in one room or it like, it's not in terms of where forced proximity traditionally like to, like you're saying to fulfill whatever they have to do in that book. They are forced to be there and have no other options. They do have options, but Adam kind of pushes himself to stay there with her while she's figuring stuff out in New York, which is so fantastic and delicious and such a great part of it. And yes, they aren't together in the past. It's obviously, you know, cause you wrote it, but it's. Joss Richard: Yeah. Courtney: I mean you're wanting them to be here living it with them. You're going through that frustration with them So it definitely feels like your second chance when they're back together once you catch up to the timelines for sure Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Joss Richard: Yeah. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, and they're very much so emotionally together. think that's a very interesting in that, sure, which has been really fun for me because I am new to reading romance and romantic books and everything. But what's been really fun for me is you say, well, technically it's this or sometimes the sex scenes in the book, it'll be like, well, technically they didn't have sex, they didn't have intercourse, but they were having sex. And then not in this book per se along the way, but to say, Joss Richard: Yeah. Courtney: Hmm. Caitlin Stryker: that ⁓ they weren't in a relationship like they hadn't put a label on it but they were very much so emotionally attached and then other people who you know were dating them were picking up on those vibes and being like ⁓ okay you're you're sure you're not together and even they're friends and everything and i think ⁓ I think emotional connection with someone or like being like connected in that way is while it's not the obvious, you know, relationship, it is a relationship, you know? Joss Richard: Yeah, I agree. I agree. And that's exactly what, that was super important to me when I was crafting their past is I wanted them to not be in a relationship. I wanted them not to be, I didn't want them to have intercourse. And I still wanted that relationship to feel just as strong as people that were dating. So I'm glad that you felt that way. Even like it was an emotional relationship between the two of them. Courtney: Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. It really came across and it was surprising. Yeah. Courtney: say is an affair though? It was, but that's like what they say is like the definition of an affair, right? It's not when people actually have like sex with someone else, it's the emotional relationship they found with someone else. That's what a lot of like, know, therapists will say is what qualifies as affairs, the emotional attachment to someone else, which definitely they weren't having an affair, but that's what these two have. That's the importance. Although look, the sex part, they didn't have sex, but like when she was telling him about never having Joss Richard: Yeah. Courtney: received oral in his reaction to that. so good, Joss. So good. Joss Richard: Mm-hmm. Wait, sorry, this is so fun for me because this is the first time I'm doing an interview with people that, ⁓ one, read. I'm not going to say people haven't read the book, but I have not been able to talk as in depth about the book because it's still fairly new. Any time I've talked about it, it's more so like, just what's it about? Then we just talk about my writing career. To actually go into like… Caitlin Stryker: So good. Mmm. Courtney: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Joss Richard: the details of the book. This is so fun for me. Courtney: good! I'm so glad! Yes, this is what we do. We just talk about books on here, basically like our own book club and all the fun spicy parts. Caitlin Stryker: Yay! readers who yeah we read the book and we want to talk about it you know how everyone's like I just go to book club for the wine and it's like I really want to talk Joss Richard: But ⁓ my god, no, this makes me so happy. But yes, that is actually one of my favorite scenes where he's shocked that all she's done is like, missionary. Courtney: Yes, which actually I think happens quite often to women around that age. Like everyone thinks they're so experienced and honestly like depending on your day it's pretty easy to end up in that because look the first time for most women that you're having oral is super fucking awkward. We all get in our head, we all worry about it and if it's not someone you've trusted or someone that's actively pursued it, it's an easy thing to sidestep as a woman. I mean at least when I was younger, definitely something that was easy. Be like ⁓ we don't need to do that. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Joss Richard: Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Courtney: I'm hoping now the new generation women are becoming more empowered and owning that more. It's kind of my excitement about all these books that talk about it so openly. Because we can and it's wonderful and we should embrace it and we should ask Ben to do it. And his reaction so valid and also like your slow burn Joss, oh my god. You would like, they'd go, it would get so close and then slash again and I'm like, oh, I just want them to have sex. Joss Richard: Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Go. Joss Richard: Yeah Caitlin Stryker: did text court at one time, like all caps. RUIN THE FUCKING FRIENDSHIP! Courtney: YES! Caitlin Stryker: I did, I think I texted her. I'm at like page 322 and I'm screaming. Courtney: you ⁓ Yeah Joss Richard: ⁓ my God, wait, that's so funny. ⁓ Courtney: It is the song that should go with this book. ⁓ It's an interesting one. You do the dual timelines, because those are actually my favorite. Every summer after Carly Fortune and Love in Other Words, Christine and Lauren, which are also dual timeline love stories between friendships, are two of my ultimate favorite romance. Two of my feel good go back to and I think it's different this time is also going to be one of those for me. ⁓ And the build to where they are in that back. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Courtney: is so important but you did it in such a way like I didn't get mad at you very often like sometimes you're reading it and then they switch like no I'm just I'm here I want to like but you found such a natural flow for it did you write it as it's written or did you like time out everything for yourself and then go switch between the timelines Joss Richard: Yeah Well, first, thank you so much for saying that. That really means a lot to me that you weren't mad at the switches and that you were able to follow, you because I also feel like that's something that is hard for people that I think the reason some people don't like dual timeline is because it is hard to stay engaged with one timeline and then switch to another. And some people just don't like that. So thank you. ⁓ And I write chronologically and I also Courtney: Mm-hmm. Okay. Joss Richard: didn't outline this book. I know. Yeah, I just, I wrote it as you read it. ⁓ And I, yeah, I didn't outline it. And it's the first piece of original fiction that I've ever written. So ⁓ this really does mean a lot to me. Thank you. Courtney: Amazing! Caitlin Stryker: ⁓ Courtney: Thank you. Caitlin Stryker: Amazing. That is so impressive. Courtney: Well done, lady. You do not need to outline clearly because you killed it. It is so good. Joss Richard: Thank you. Well, I don't recommend it. I don't recommend it. I, yeah, it caused, you know, it caused issue, not issues, but it was hard to edit and go back because I didn't have an outline for the full story. So if I had to go back and change something, I was like, well, I don't really have a plan here. Like, it sort of just came out of me. So it was an interesting exercise. Courtney: you Mm-hmm. Joss Richard: to write it just to write it. ⁓ But yes, I do not recommend not outlining. Caitlin Stryker: You're like, this one fortunately flowed for me, next time I'll outline so I can go back and... Courtney: Phew. Joss Richard: Absolutely. Courtney: Yeah, it's the way. Okay, well then I have a question. When you were writing the part with Riley and the roller skating rink and her talking about them possibly living together, did you, that's the one moment, like I reread a bit this morning again to get it back in my head, because I read it like a week ago. I read it in one night also, by the way. It was so good. Like I just couldn't, I have a problem when I stay up and I do that, but still it was, it doesn't happen with that many books. And this one I was like, I just need to know. I needed them to get together. Joss Richard: ⁓ my God. Courtney: I needed my mom. ⁓ But within that and rebroadcast this morning I got like sweaty again and so frustrated with the like they're moving they're talking about it they're fucking talking about it like when she was going through that conversation with Riley about the movie I'm like did you have a zine of him or her ever confronting that? the like, what do you mean you're moving in with her? Or like, I know it's obviously explained in why she does just shut down and go, and I do understand that completely, but I was just curious from the writing side, did you have that in your head of like, what? Joss Richard: I know. So ⁓ it was always intended that June found out that information and she sort of, like you said, like shut down and she sort of made that decision in her head and sort of had her own conversation in her head that Adam has already chosen Riley and that there is no place for her. There's no point. ⁓ I didn't explore what a conversation between them would look like because that was really, for me, always the reason. Courtney: Mm-hmm. Joss Richard: that she left and why there's friction between them because they didn't have that conversation. But I do have a bonus chapter, if you will, that I explored that is Adam's POV for what happens after and what happens in that year ⁓ of when June leaves and when he goes to LA. know, Caitlin. Caitlin is like... Caitlin Stryker: What? I need this chapter. Joss Richard: It's not, nobody has it. I have it in my drafts. I was thinking like maybe I can like share it on like my sub stack or something if anyone's like interested, but I have it and I just never include. Courtney: ⁓ Caitlin Stryker: Yes! As like a holiday gift for all of us who want to go back and hang out with them in June. Courtney: What rush? Yeah, let's do a little holiday treat. Here's your holiday present. Bonus chapter. Add us POVs. Yes, please do. Yes, yes, please do. I so want to read that. I'm dying to see his point of view on it. I love the bonus male point of view chapters that get. It's so great. I can't wait to see his point of view from your mind. yes, please do. Joss Richard: I maybe I should, I should, yeah, I should, cause it exists, yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yes. Joss Richard: Okay. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Joss Richard: Okay, I'll share it. I just didn't because I felt like already with the dual timeline, I'm like if I add in, add in, like I just feel like it's like too much, you know? But yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Courtney: bonus chapter though you can do anything you will take it it's sign up and get emails from Joss and she'll give you the bonus chapter there we go that's all we'll do it okay we'll put it for you here and you have to date Joss Richard: That's true, that's true. Yes, yes. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yeah. No, I think that's one of my favorite things with romance and romantic books and everything. like, just the genre and the fans of the books is we want to live with these characters as long as possible. we want, we A, are here for the guaranteed happy ending. B, we want to spend more time with them. And then also like just in their... everyday life when everything's going great for them afterwards. It's like, I'll read that too. I'm good with no conflict. Courtney: Yeah. Yes. The epilogue. Yes. The joyful epilogue. So I could go on and on. Yes. Joss Richard: Exactly. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. So I have... ⁓ go ahead. Courtney: Even the epilogue that you gave, sorry, I'll let you go into that, but even the way you wrapped up for Chloe as well and Varaya, you tied it up all so nicely and in such a satisfying way that I think an Adam POV just will work with that really well. think it's just like the cherry on top. It's perfect, because you've already done it all for us. You've given us such a gift. Yeah. Joss Richard: Alright. I'll do it. I will share it. I will share it. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Amazing. So Joss, what I did a little bit of research and everything and you started writing in fanfic, which I think is so cool. ⁓ And then you wrote this and it's a romance and have you always been a fan of romance books? Joss Richard: I did. Always, always. Yeah, and I think that's where my fan fiction background came from. ⁓ It was because I just love love stories. And I guess when I was younger, I didn't really know how to create my own characters. knew I could come up with stories, but it helped when I was using existing characters and I sort of put them in situations. I... Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Joss Richard: could not even imagine writing anything else. It just like naturally, even as a reader, if there's no, I mean, I guess I am a mood reader. I can appreciate other genres, but for me, I will always lean towards something that has a romantic relationship in it just because I am so fascinated by love and yeah, like that's just like, that's my genre. Yeah. Courtney: ⁓ me too. Like, who has time? I don't need to be depressed in another world. I just need like the romance and the hug and the fun. If we're gonna use our time to escape, I want it to be something good. That's what we say on here. We're hard in that romance, romanticy because it's fun and life's too short not to like choose the fun things for your me time when you get to escape and do it. And so thank you for giving us that with this. Which for you, okay, so how was... Joss Richard: Absolutely. Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Right? Joss Richard: Yeah. My God, thank you for reading. Courtney: Anytime. Anytime you write something, I will read it. ⁓ How was writing the sex scenes for this? Because it's such a slow burn, but then when you go there, you go there. And I'd love, first of all, thank you for making Adam tall, because it just makes everything so much easier. Joss Richard: Naturally, naturally. Courtney: He's your hey, what is not he like this doesn't work like you can't ⁓ No, we needed the tall Adam. I love that he Walked that line of being the best friend main male character, but then also like there was great to him There was sexiness to him like he still had that little bit of there wasn't any cringe There's no to Adam which obviously is intentional because he's our main character But it was such a subtle way of doing it that you knew he would be good Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Courtney: and commanding in the bedroom, but it didn't like affect the way he was also a best friend and also cared about his mom and also cared about her friends. Like you somehow wrote it in such a perfect way that everything's believable and also the heat was turned up so much from when they finally got together. So how was that for you? Cause you wrote chronologically. Like was it building in your mind until you finally got there where this was going to go? Caitlin Stryker: ⁓ yeah. Joss Richard: Yes. Yeah, it was definitely building in my mind. It's so funny though, because I feel like I wrote this and I think that the first, well, the sex scene doesn't come until like, I think more than halfway into the book. like, you're like, I was waiting and can confirm. ⁓ Courtney: Like 200 and something, like 220. Yeah, 220. Yeah, I remember. Yeah. Around midnight. Caitlin Stryker: It is more than halfway. Yes, I was, I I was and I do clock 50%. I've got right, I clocked the 50 % mark and I'm like, it's happening soon. And then I was like, where is it? Joss Richard: You Courtney: You Joss Richard: Where is it? You know, I just find Adam so attractive anyway that it wasn't like, I don't know, like I wasn't trying to curate like the perfect balance between like him being, you know, a good son and him being a best friend and then him being like a freak in the sheets or anything like that. was just, I just feel like that came so naturally given their relationship. And I think it's so clear that Adam, has always been attracted to June, even from that early conversation when she's talking about how she's only done missionary. ⁓ And I think little things like that, like this has been building up in him for years that like, you better believe the minute he's able to have June, he will show her a good time again and again and again. That's just without a doubt. I don't even know if I could write it any other way because Adam feels like such a real. Courtney: Mm-hmm. Joss Richard: character to me and that's like, that is how he would be in an intimate situation with June. Courtney: Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Yeah. How do you find writing sex scenes? Joss Richard: I love writing sex scenes. love reading sex scenes. I love writing sex scenes. It's so funny because ⁓ I wrote fan fiction ⁓ and I actually, feel like when people think of fan fiction, they think of like smut. Like we are writing like X rated sex scenes and I actually didn't really write smut in my sex scenes because I wrote the fan fiction at such a young age and I like explored it ⁓ but I wasn't like going like. Courtney: Yeah. Me too. Caitlin Stryker: same. Courtney: Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: Hmm. Joss Richard: crazy into like BDS sound. Like I feel like there's like, it was Sound of Music fan fiction. And it was Maria and the Captain on their honeymoon because we never got to see it. like, never got, yeah. Yeah. So I think, yes, when I was younger, I wrote it more so like they were making love. And I think if I wrote it now, I could get more like, you know, have more fun with it. Courtney: What was your fanfic on? Caitlin Stryker: Yes, amazing. Right? Yes. Courtney: You're right. Yeah, definitely. Definitely need that scene. Yes, yes. Joss Richard: but I, so writing it's different this time, June and Adam. So I love reading Smut. Like give me all the five chili peppers. I give me like the craziest shit. I'm so into it. ⁓ and I, it's so funny, but like, I feel like it's different this time is actually like tame for my liking. ⁓ I, I feel like it is more of like, I think people have rated it like a two chili peppers and yeah, like I, ⁓ Courtney: Mm-hmm. Me too. Caitlin Stryker: Yes. Okay, so we have a pumpkin spice meter and I think it's time to take a little time out and everybody can give this. So we rate it one pumpkin, two pumpkin, three pumpkins, sassy pumpkin, sexy pumpkin, right? Yeah, those are our pumpkins. So we go up to five. Courtney: We have rain. Joss Richard: Yes. Mm-hmm. Courtney: Yes, that's the definition and while we Yeah, we generally we haven't gotten a five yet that we've done on the podcast I've read a five, but we haven't done a five on the podcast yet But usually what I say is anything over three like if you get to that four to that sassy pumpkin That's the book that's awkward to read on a bus For me so like that I even get like ⁓ hope no one and it takes a lot for me to get there I'm like you like I love a good smut book the smut ear the better. I will read it all Caitlin Stryker: No, we haven't. We have not hit a five. No. Joss Richard: Hmm. Courtney: And so to get to that point that I'm actually like, ⁓ if someone's there was like a moment in, I don't know if you've read the Ali Hazelwood Bride and Mate series. There's one in. OK, OK. Made in the second, there's like three pages there that I'm like, OK, these are in like a four and a half, five that are awkward to read on the bus. ⁓ But the rest. So for this one, for me, I would put your book at a three. Joss Richard: No, I started reading Bride, but I haven't finished it. Courtney: three because it's more than a two and a half because you definitely it's not as descriptive as some that I would feel awkward on the bus but the heat is there the heat like you get turned on reading it it's all the buildup the slow burn tension so I would put yours at a three pumpkin for sure yeah Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Joss Richard: Mmm. Okay. Okay. ⁓ wait, Caitlin, are you? Okay. ⁓ okay. Okay. I feel like... Caitlin Stryker: What's yours, Joss? Do you want me to go? You go. You tell us. Where do you rate it? Courtney: Yes, your turn Cait. Joss Richard: Yeah, think maybe, I would say maybe like a two and a half, honestly, because I know myself and I'm like, and I know that what I'm writing next is spicier. So I think now that I'm comparing it to it's different this time, yeah, I would say this is a two and a half compared to like what we could explore, what we could do. Courtney: Hmm. Okay, I love it! Caitlin Stryker: ⁓ my gosh, I'm so excited by that answer. Cause I was also like, ⁓ yeah, it's like a three. And then you were like, lots of people are calling it a two and a half. And I was like, well, we know I'm the soft one on this podcast. ⁓ Joss Richard: NAH! Caitlin Stryker: But not that I don't love it, just that I am like new to reading this stuff and that I'm so often like, and then just like fucking thrilled by the way. And my sex life is way better as a result. Like this is just, it was fantastic before and now it's just like, ⁓ everyone's like, we're having a real party. ⁓ Joss Richard: I know. Courtney: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Joss Richard: Yes, yes. It's like, ⁓ my God, no, I... Courtney: Way better. What we tell everyone, if you read these books, your sex life improves. It's just how it works. Husbands all benefit, partners benefit, wives benefit, everyone benefits. I'm reading these books. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: Yes. Joss Richard: Yeah. Yeah. Everyone benefits, everyone wins, you know? It's just, yeah, highly… Caitlin Stryker: thing that I love about it too, I think, I don't know, it's increased my confidence in the bedroom. You know, like as a woman, I already felt like I was pretty confident in everything and now I'm like, wait, there's so much fun to be had and everyone's talking about it and this is really awesome and why is it hiding over in a little corner where we're being made to feel bad about smut? ⁓ it's all a ruse. It's like, they've been doing this to hold us back this whole time. Courtney: Mm-hmm. Joss Richard: I love that. Yeah. Courtney: Yes! Joss Richard: Yes! Yes! Courtney: Yes, exactly. Joss Richard: Yeah. When I discovered romance books and realizing how much I enjoyed Smut, it also comes with the community because I think it's validation where you see all these other women who also love this and you're like, wait, it's okay to be open, to be sex positive, to be reading about this. There are other characters that other women are writing who love having sex too. Courtney: Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: Yes. Joss Richard: I think it, yes, it increases your confidence. It just makes you feel sexier. It makes you want to do other things. I highly recommend everyone should read Smut. Courtney: Yes, we had a. Caitlin Stryker: Absolutely. Well, and I think it's cool. mean going Going back again to when we were talking about, know, Adam and him being like, ⁓ I can't believe like no one's ever gone down on you and what court was saying and so often you will make it like Courtney: Go, I like, okay. ⁓ Caitlin Stryker: So many young women will be giving blow jobs but not receiving oral themselves, you know, from their partner. And it's like, why is that not like a two-way street? Why is it one way for so long until we're, for a lot of us in our twenties, you know, and then it comes around and it's on the even playing field. Like, why are we made to feel bad about? Courtney: But even bringing it a step further, what I think reading these kind of books and getting this into women and into young women too, like having this knowledge is not only can you ask for it, but you can also give directions. You don't have to just assume you don't like oral. It can just be that guy's bad at it or that girl's bad at it. it can just, it's not a you problem. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Yeah Joss Richard: Yes. Yes. And then you... Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Joss Richard: Right. And then you realize you're like, wait, there are men out there who actually want to please you, who want you to orgasm first. That's also crazy. when you're in your early 20s or whenever you start exploring your sexual journey, you kind of are told that you please the man first. And once the man finishes, then you're done. That's it. The sex is over. Yeah, they came, then you're done. So it's like, Courtney: Yes! HA! Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Joss Richard: it things like that. It's like, ⁓ no, no, no, no, no. There there are it. is a two way street, you know? Yeah. Courtney: No, no. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Yeah, like the female orgasm should be the priority because we can have many Courtney: Well, there's a reason we can have many because we should be the ones worshiped and then when finally ready they can blow their load like we That's the point Joss Richard: Yes! Yes! Caitlin Stryker: Exactly, exactly. And I think it's really... Courtney: It's hard sometimes because even when they are finally getting together and Adam's trying to take it slow and she's like, just take it. Like I also get that. We talk about this sometimes. You have to remember for playing the joy but also I remember those feelings. Like fuck, just fuck me. Like you just, you want it so bad. And when they're teasing you and slowing it down like in that part of it, so like I get both sides completely. I'm like, he's doing the right thing but also fuck, just. Caitlin Stryker: Hmm. You Joss Richard: Haha Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Well, and so let's talk, I feel like we've talked about Adam, but let's talk a bit more about June. ⁓ How did she come to you as a character? And then I also think it's really interesting because she does have so much, you know, she is less experienced in the bedroom than Adam. ⁓ Courtney: Fuck. Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: I felt when I got to the end of the story, was like, so much of this story is June's kind of coming of age. know, like she had so many feelings of not being enough that are also reinforced by her career choice and everything, you know, like from her family and then reinforced by her career choice. then, you know, and it was all about so much of this was Adam was just like waiting for her to realize he was incredibly patient. But can you tell us a bit more about June and how she came to you as character? Joss Richard: Yeah. Okay, so what I've heard the most actually is that June is very prickly character and that a lot of people, I think this sentiment specifically I've heard from a lot of readers who like the book and also who aren't crazy about it, they wanted to take June and shake her and just be like. fucking like just like have a conversation. they found her really frustrating. Some in good way, some in a bad way. And I actually like that. I like how some people see her as ⁓ maybe unlikable and some people like how she's unlikable. ⁓ But June is someone that is meant to represent just every part of us that is afraid, doesn't feel like we're good enough, didn't come from. Courtney: Yeah! Joss Richard: She didn't come from a home where she had two parents who loved each other. So how would she know how to be that to anyone else? And I think a lot of that is, you like I come from divorced parents ⁓ who thankfully, you know, I have both have good relationships with, but I know that growing up, I didn't think, I just grew up not thinking I would be married. I would or have a family. I just thought like, I would get married and whoever I found with, we'd get divorced. I just thought that's what life was going to be. So I took sort of that perspective and I exaggerated it and I put it with June where if she doesn't have these things and how could she want it herself or how can she feel like she's not good enough? And I felt like… Courtney: Yeah, me too. Joss Richard: exploring so many hard parts of us and having dreams and feeling like we can't achieve them and loving someone but feeling they won't love us back. That was so fun for me. ⁓ It was really tough and I really do love June. I feel like, yeah, she could have just sat there with Adam and be like, look, I love you but I'm scared. But also she was in her 20s and how many people can have Courtney: But that doesn't happen! Yeah! No! Joss Richard: You can't have that conversation in your 20s. I mean, maybe some people can, but I don't think you can, you know? Caitlin Stryker: You can't. Courtney: It's honestly so relatable what she was doing. I went through that honestly with my husband. I think that's part of why I love these dual timelines so much. Him and I were best friends for two years. We were both in different relationships when we met and then we were best friends. We talked about moving to LA together. We were both actors. We met in an acting class. We had that and we had the sleepovers that were like, we're having an accidental under the boob, like raising, but not talking about it. And everyone was saying, like, aren't you guys hooking up? Are you guys? we're like, no, no, we're just friends. We're just friends. We're just friends. Caitlin Stryker: No, I- Joss Richard: Yeah. Courtney: For me, like, I was terrified. I just assumed he would never gonna be into me that way. Like, I literally just didn't think so. Even though the whole time we now know he was also in love with me. But like, we literally did that dance for two years because you, people that naturally have that confidence, amazing. Amazing, good for you. But a lot of people don't. Like, you don't assume people you met are also into you that way. You just assume they want the friendship because it's hard to have that. kind of confidence in yourself. I mean, it's not that many women are willing to just walk up to men and like, hey, you wanna get with this? Like, before the apps, before, like that's not, and you just assume everything that you're misreading and they're still flirty and Adam's still meeting girls and he was still talking and he was an older guy and a super hot guy and I'm like, he's probably been with a million people. He's probably, and I literally almost let him go off into relationship. Like I almost had a June of like sending him off with his, Caitlin Stryker: Yeah Courtney: woman and doing it because I just assumed that's what they wanted and I wanted the friendship more than not. I was so scared of ruining the friendship. We joke about it as a song but it's real and especially when you're 20 like you don't like now if I was single and not married and kids and I just like talk about it obviously because I'm adult and I can have those conversations and know I'll be okay but especially when she's an actress we're neurotic like we don't have we are rejected 50 times a week like we don't Caitlin Stryker: Right, it's that fear of losing the front end. Hahaha Yeah. Courtney: think people are choosing us. It's it's part of it. So I think you did it so truthfully. I believe her one million percent as a person and I think it's done so well. yeah, I love June. I get June. She and I would be friends. Caitlin Stryker: No, that's what I mean. It's reinforced by her career. Joss Richard: Thank you. Thank you. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, I didn't find her briefly. got her too. I actually, think you built, into the character with her history and everything. And then when you had her meeting his family and being like, what is this? You know, I was like, oh, she doesn't, she doesn't know that it's possible. Like she doesn't have that. How, so how would she know? Right. So, and I come from, my parents are still together and everything and all that. And so I more come from Adam's side of things where it's like, well, yeah, you know, um, and then flip side, like when my husband and I were getting together and I was very open and we did talk about it and we still had a roller coaster ride, you know, cause like, Joss Richard: Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: he wasn't ready and then I ran off somewhere, you know, and all of that even with actually talking about it, like that doesn't necessarily ⁓ solve it, you know, and then also, and you can like in my case, like be the first person to say I love you and I'm into everything and then the guy can be like, I'm not there yet, you know, like you can be rejected in that way and ⁓ Joss Richard: Yeah. Courtney: Yeah. Joss Richard: Yeah Caitlin Stryker: And for whatever reason, I'm very much to somebody who just will jump off a cliff and hope that I have a parachute somewhere and sometimes splat on the ground and be like, it's all right, I'll myself back together. You know, which is not very much so like, maybe more like Adam in this, but you know. Joss Richard: same. ⁓ no! Courtney: Yeah. you Caitlin Stryker: Adam was there and waiting and ready the whole time and he still had to go through it with June. Like it's a two-way, there's two people to tango in a relationship. ⁓ And with these romance stories, we wouldn't have the beautiful like slow burn and buildup if there wasn't some conflict somewhere. Joss Richard: Yeah, yeah. Courtney: Mm-hmm. Joss Richard: No, exactly how old it would only be half of the book if they got if they got together Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. ⁓ Courtney: Yeah! And they're dead! Caitlin Stryker: I have to say, I also have to say, know, reading this and everything they're going through and getting together and it did, think I also texted court at one point where I was like, ⁓ my God, you read these books and you just think it's a mirror. And my mom would always say when, when I was like dating, it's just, it's a miracle that any of us ever get together, you know, like, cause she would tell me the story of like my parents and like them getting together and breaking up and like fighting for five years, you know, before they got married and everything like that. And just all the different life obstacles that happened along the way and really is a miracle than any of us. ever get together with anyone. It's not as easy as it seems from the outside looking in, you know? Yeah. So I thought it was really cool. And I think also like Court said, you know, as an actress, June is getting rejected all the time and really putting herself out there and being vulnerable and getting rejected all the time. There's only so much that one can take. Joss Richard: That is true. Courtney: Yeah. Yeah. Joss Richard: Yeah. Courtney: Yeah. Thank Joss Richard: Isn't that the truth? There's only so much. Caitlin Stryker: Like how did you find the process with ⁓ getting your book to publication with query letters and everything like that? Courtney: Thanks Joss Richard: So I feel like I was very lucky. ⁓ I was lucky when I look back on it in terms of my timeline. think everything happened fairly quickly, but I got a lot of rejections. I got so many. I got rejections even after I sold the book. people, yeah, like I already got an agent. I sold the book. And then people that ghosted me responded and they're like, so sorry. Like we just... Courtney: Yeah. Joss Richard: we don't like this book. I don't even know. And I was like, this book is already, so this book is already becoming, it's already happening, but it shows you how subjective what is good is. Yeah. Courtney: It's already happening. Caitlin Stryker: It's already sold. Do you... and now this... Yeah. Yeah. On that note, now that it's also a bestseller, ⁓ do you feel like having that pretty woman moment where you just walk out and you're like, ⁓ you work on commission, don't you? Joss Richard: No, never. Never. mean, yes, like yes, but also like I am just eternally and forever grateful and I think will forever be pinching myself because I just, didn't, I did not expect this, especially on a debut novel. I recognize how rare that is and ⁓ I'm seeing how people are connecting, like the two of you connecting to the book. Like that means so much to me and that's something that will never get old. Courtney: you Yeah. Joss Richard: ⁓ And I don't want it to get old. I never want to get to the place. I remember the point was I was like, I just want an agent to respond to me. And that was always the goal. And then as you continue, the goalpost always keeps moving. And I just always want to remember, like the dream was just to have the book sold, just to see it on a shelf. Like everything else is just like a cherry on top. So I never want to take it for granted. ⁓ Courtney: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Joss Richard: But yes, like I did want to like respond to that agent and be like, well, actually just a little, but yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Just a little, just a little bit. ⁓ Courtney: You know, it happens like we've gone through and we've got agents and different agents and you change agents and you get the rejections. And then that time when you get the agent and like you booked the next thing, you're just like, that's yeah. But the proof is in the pudding. Like there's that small part of you that wants to go. also you can just be like, well, they'll see the sales. They'll see my name. Caitlin Stryker: Right? Hmm. ⁓ Joss Richard: Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Joss Richard: Exactly. You can only hope that one day they'll see you in a movie or on a TV show and they'll be like, wait, isn't that the person that I said no to? That's all you could ask. Courtney: Yeah, right? I had a breakup with someone and I remember I did a commercial, can't remember what it was for, like some clothing thing, but it happened to be playing at the movies a lot before the movie would come on and there's a small part that's like, I hope he goes to the movies with his new thing. And that's to see me pop up for the next like three months every time he goes to the movie. Caitlin Stryker: That's Joss Richard: Well, and everyone does go to the movies, so... ⁓ my God, that must be like so satisfying. Caitlin Stryker: Right? Amazing. Amazing. Courtney: There's that small part of me that had that like... Caitlin Stryker: Okay, so I have a question for you. One of my favorite parts reading in the book I love New York City so much and lived there for years and everything and so it was just delicious reading this book and like being there in the fall because it's the best in the fall and they have that wonderful day and it where they have like their quintessential New York day or June's really, you know, and Adams quite resistant to it because it's like, oh, this is all touristy and I always say like I grew up moving all the time and I'm like a lot of times the Courtney: I'm you Yes. Joss Richard: Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: touristy stuff is the best stuff. Like in Vancouver, I'm like, go to Granville Island. Like, why would you not go to Granville Island? It's miraculous, you know? ⁓ It's a wonderful place. And ⁓ I love going to like Bryant Park in New York. I think it's wonderful. It's close to the library and everything too. So ⁓ Joss, what is your quintessential New York day? Joss Richard: Yeah. Ooh, great question. I would say, okay, waking up, would, the West Village is my favorite part of New York City, which is why the book takes place in the West Village. Just waking up, having brunch, walking around, honestly, just like walking around, seeing where you'll end up. I think that's one of the best parts of New York, not like LA. It's like, I feel like LA, you have a place in mind that you are going to. No one's like wandering aimlessly. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Joss Richard: around LA. It's like you're like, we're no, absolutely. And it's like, if we're meeting somewhere, like we're going to that place and we are parking and we're there for an hour and a half and then we're leaving. But I feel like that's the great thing about New York is whenever I go there and I like see friends, I feel like often people in New York, like we just make plans the day of like we know we're meeting each other, but it's like we don't text until the morning. We're like, okay, like where should we go? So I feel like things like that, like the, the unexpected like Courtney: Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, because no one's walking. Courtney: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Joss Richard: Where can you end up? I wanted to convey that in the story where he's like, hey, let's go to the farmer's market. And then it turns into this crazy like, they go on the ferry, then they go in Central Park. So all those things. ⁓ I do think Central Park, as cheesy as it is, I do love it. Courtney: Yeah. I love central park. Caitlin Stryker: It's not though, it's the best. Have you ever done the rowboats? Joss Richard: I have not. Courtney: You don't have eye, actually. Caitlin Stryker: Let me tell you, do yourselves a favor and then next time you are there, because you think to yourself, it's like probably the cheesiest thing you could ever do. It is the greatest thing. You're in the middle of New York City and you're on a rowboat in Central Park and everything just like slows down and chills out and it's so wonderful. yeah. Joss Richard: That feels, ⁓ that sounds so amazing. I actually, feel like I'm always in New York in either the fall or the winter, and I'm rarely there in the summer. And I think I just don't think of it when it's like cold. Okay. Yeah, that'd be crazy. Courtney: Mm-hmm. Ready? Caitlin Stryker: You can do it in the fall. You can do it in the fall. Don't do it in the winter. That'd be miserable. ⁓ You can do it in the fall. We did it one year for my birthday and my birthday is in October and we did it in October and it was ideal. was, yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I wanted to know because it was such a great and it's amazing. Like you say, because you can't just meander from one thing to the next and they do that for the Courtney: Yeah. Possibly frozen. Joss Richard: Well, happy belated birthday. Okay, I will add that to the list. Caitlin Stryker: whole day and it's just so dreamy and it was like just so wonderful to read like not only is it real estate porn but it's also like city porn. Just city living porn you know just that like ⁓ we just kind of ladi da'd about it was magical. Courtney: New York. ⁓ Joss Richard: Yes! Yeah. Makes me so happy. Courtney: Yes. Caitlin Stryker: I loved it. I also really resonated with the moment when she was like, ⁓ great, I get to go buy a perfect outfit under pressure, every woman's favorite thing. How come you cannot find the gala dress when you need one, but you can find one like so easily when you have not got an event in sight for months? Joss Richard: Yeah. Courtney: Yeah. Joss Richard: Never. No, it's like always. When we were walking the street, we were like, ⁓ my god, that's beautiful. I have nowhere to wear that. And then when you're looking, not even like a gala dress, but just like anything. I feel like if you have a dinner just with friends, you're like, I want to wear something new. You just can't find a thing. It's the worst. Courtney: Impossible. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yeah. You Mmm. Courtney: Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: You can't find anything when you're looking for it. Courtney: Yeah, it's that. Funny enough, like I don't know you guys remember this, but there was a lot when we were growing up, a lot of things on daytime that was always like, how to take an outfit from day to night. It was just like a common thing all the time. I've never had that come up in my life that I've had or had the right outfit to just go from that strolling day to night. Like it doesn't actually, I thought that was gonna be a real problem. Like I'd really growing up have to have a wardrobe as an adult that went from day to night. It's never been a thing. Caitlin Stryker: Yes. Hahaha! Joss Richard: Also, that advice is horrible because it's like, just like change your shoes, put on a belt, add a blazer. It's like, am I bringing the shoes and the belt and the blazer with me? Like, I'm go, I have to go home. I have to go home and do that. And if I'm going home, I may as well change my outfit. Courtney: YES! Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, I will say living in New York, you have it with you. And that's the crazy part. you basically leave your apartment with like a turtle shell. Like your purse is huge or you have a backpack and it has all the stuff because you don't know where the day is going to take you. And you can't get back to your apartment and then go back out because it's inevitably like a 45 minute subway ride, you know, and then it just like kills the flow. So it doesn't happen. So I think, but I think that's honestly like probably the only place where that applies. Joss Richard: Yeah. Yeah, where that's applicable. Yeah. Courtney: Where's it comes from? Caitlin Stryker: And those morning talk shows are all based in New York. that's why they're the only place where it's a real problem. And it's such a problem that like when you finally move out and leave, like I now relish, I'm like, I just go home and change. I go back out. I don't have to have my whole life with me for the whole day. Like from 6 a.m. onward. Joss Richard: The New York, that's true. That's true, that's so funny. Courtney: I'm Joss Richard: Yeah. Yeah. Courtney: Yeah, I also need that time. I need like the decompressed time between day to night. ⁓ I want to say before I forget too, I wanted to compliment your writing of Liam and Riley because I think it's so easy to fall into one, the other female love interest and put it girl against girl, which you avoided and did very well. ⁓ It's just an unfortunate circumstance, but it wasn't like woman against woman. And walking. Caitlin Stryker: Mm. Mm-hmm. Beautifully. Joss Richard: Thank you. Courtney: of Liam like we have to like him, but we can't like him. Like the interest that has to be like good enough for June to a degree that we're not like hurting her, but also can never live up to Adam. And it's a very hard line walk. I always think of Sweet Home Alabama because they did not do it. Like you wanted her with both. You want her with the guy, but also with Patrick Dempsey. And you're like, but that's a hard choice. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Joss Richard: Okay, wait, sorry, I did not want her with Patrick Dempsey, not even for a minute, but- Courtney: the guy she was with. Joss Richard: Wasn't, isn't his... Yeah. But no, I was gonna say, isn't he like conservative? Or no, her, she's conservative. I don't know. Yeah. Courtney: No, no, his mom is horrible. No, no, he was lovely. That was the problem. He was just like lovely and kind. And at the time it was when he was still hot. Like now I wouldn't care, but at the time that was when he was still like likable, I'm not sure. mean, not like who he became. Joss Richard: Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a good comparison. ⁓ I love that movie. Courtney: Or like in the notebook, which never did you not want her with Ryan in the notebook, but James Marsden is still like Like it's a hard guess Joss Richard: Yes, it needs to be enough where you're like, okay, I understand why this is why like she has chosen this person. But yes, like it's like you can't take away from the male main the male main character. But okay, but also, thank you so much for bringing up Liam and Riley, because I actually, Liam not so much Liam, I'm like, okay, he's fine. But Riley, I actually have a very soft spot for and I Courtney: Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Courtney: Yeah! Joss Richard: I'm happy that you didn't feel like it was these two pitted against each other. I think at first when you meet her, perhaps, perhaps it's feelings of this is like the other woman and she's like so pretty and she has like all these things, but I think it all comes together when they meet at that Chinese restaurant. And she sort of has, yeah, she has that like realization and that, know, like Riley is just like her, like she had Adam at some point and now, now look, they're both like, Caitlin Stryker: It really does. Courtney: next Caitlin Stryker: Yes Joss Richard: they're both just here at the same Chinese restaurant, like single, and it just, that's just like life. And I wanted her to represent anyone that we thought was like the other girl. Like, you know, I'm sure at every point in our lives, whether it be in like school or in our late twenties, there was always someone else who had what we wanted. And I just wanted to show that that other person, like maybe that's... Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Yes. Courtney: Mm-hmm. Joss Richard: you to someone else. Maybe June to Riley is the other girl. So I'm so happy that you brought up Riley and Liam because I do love those characters and what they represent. Courtney: Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yeah, that was really cool. I also loved Chloe's storyline. Courtney: Oh yes. I loved Chloe. And I loved, it was so on to that moment when she was like, what do you mean my life's together? Like it looks like it, but also I'm living like outside the city now and I'm doing that and doing the job. Like it always seems like everyone's reached a point, but for most people, even when you reach your dream job or your dream goal, it's still hard work. You still need your friends. You're still. Joss Richard: Chloe. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: I love how that evolved. Courtney: fighting each day. It's, you know, you choose your hard and you choose like the hard that you hate and you're fighting or you choose the hard that you love. Like even for you, this book, like you still worked very hard on this book. You're still publishing this book. You're still working hard at writing, but it's a hard that you're enjoying doing. And I feel like Chloe's character summed that up really well. Like it doesn't matter where you get to. You still need your support system. You still need your friends and family around you. And if you're here with me, I still want to help like grab your hand and pull you up. I... Joss Richard: Mm-hmm. Courtney: I loved that how well you captured that between the two of them. That you can be two different places and still meet each other. Yeah. Joss Richard: Thank you, thank you. Yeah, that scene with June telling Chloe everything was so much shorter in my first draft. And I really like built out that conversation to make it not just about June and Adam, but also how June left Chloe and how she didn't confide in Chloe and how Chloe felt about moving. So... Caitlin Stryker: ⁓ Joss Richard: Yeah, I love Chloe and I love their friendship. And I also love how ⁓ someone said the other day, there is just such a natural queer representation. The fact that Chloe just is married to a woman now and we don't really explore that and how that does happen. I thought that was so nice because I feel like that's representation for anything, even with June being Filipino. Courtney: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Joss Richard: She, we don't talk about, like there's a sentence in there in chapter one about how she's like not white enough, not Asian enough, but that's it. We don't go into her background. We don't go into how she feels about being Asian. And I feel like sometimes that's nice just that she is Asian and that's not the story. She can just have, yeah, she just have her own story and it doesn't have to be based on whether she's a woman of color or not. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, it's so nice. Courtney: Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, as a woman of as a woman of color and as someone who's biographical everything I loved it like reading that I was just like, ⁓ Yes, because I feel like so often we don't just get to have a nice story It has to be based in right and it's like we're Joss Richard: Thank you. Caitlin Stryker: We can be the lead in a rom-com too, you know? And it can be just about the romance. doesn't have to be about race. Sure, it's an element of our lives and it's spiced in there, but it's just perfect how it's like, how you wrote that. And I felt so seen reading this. So it was really amazing. Thank you. Yeah, because we don't get to be the lead often. Joss Richard: Yes, yes. Thank you. Thank you. Courtney: Mm-hmm. Joss Richard: We don't. Caitlin Stryker: So it's nice that we get to be centered and it's not about the fact that we're, you know, women of color. We just get to be a woman. It was really, really nice. ⁓ So I really loved that ⁓ a lot. As you can tell, we absolutely love this book. It was amazing. You crushed it. Joss Richard: Absolutely, Yeah, yeah. Courtney: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, mean, enjoyed it. And side note, it's, side note and not the most important thing, but good to note, it's also like a great length and like grip, like everything you did with it with the cover, I don't know how much you had input on it, but even the feel of it, like it's such a perfect purse book and bus book and like transit book because of the size and the easy way it reads. And I'm really, I read so many books, but I, so I get really specific, but even the way it like folds, like it's just done really well. So whatever you went through when you did this. Joss Richard: Thank you. I'm so happy that you loved it. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Courtney: Good job, because it's very user friendly as far as a book goes. Joss Richard: ⁓ my God, thank you. I didn't have anything to do with like the weight or the size of it. ⁓ I will give credit where credit is due. That is the publisher. But the cover I did have conversations with, so I'm glad that it looks nice and that everyone likes the cover. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. You Courtney: Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, no, it pops off the shelf. The cover is really good. You nailed it. Yeah. Courtney: you feel being like I don't know in the States in Canada you are in the fiction section as opposed to the romance section was that something that you did purposely Joss Richard: Thank you. No, I had no say in that. I'm surprised actually it's in fiction. I'm happy because I feel like often, I mean, not for romance readers, but for non-romance readers, the romance section is just looked past. So to have it sort of like in there with fiction and have non-romance readers possibly pick it up and enjoy a romance book, I'm hoping that that is something that will happen. ⁓ Courtney: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Joss Richard: But no, didn't have anything to do with that. And I did notice that in Indigo, it is under fiction. So I don't know. Yeah. Courtney: Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's a pride of when I went to find it. I'm like, ⁓ it's in our fiction section, ⁓ which was interesting to me. But it's cool. It's great. mean, so is Emily Henry. So is Carly Fortune. ⁓ So many awesome, like, that I consider romance fiction writers. And they're also, but you're right. It opens it up to a bigger audience. It gives more people the opportunity to discover the book and find it. And then I also move some to the romance end cap, because I saw there was a space and I just put your book on the romance end cap so that romance readers would also know. Joss Richard: Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yeah. Joss Richard: Yeah, and I hope that people that... ⁓ my God, thank you. Everyone should go to their bookstore and just like place it, yeah, on the end cap. Whatever you can. Just grab one and just put it there. Yeah. Yeah. Courtney: Yeah. Just stick it there. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Right? Make sure that people can grab it. So that everyone reads it. ⁓ my gosh, June, Joss, I called you June. So I was just thinking about her. ⁓ You should be, I loved June. ⁓ And then I was like, did I give it my pumpkin rate? I think I did rate it as three pumpkins, ⁓ but that's just because the sex was really, really satisfying when we finally got there. And it went on for a nice long time. Joss Richard: Yeah. No I'm honored. Courtney: We do. Yeah, and we're slid- Joss Richard: I'm so happy. I'm happy. Courtney: And it's we do slightly more than peppers like peppers I think rated spice generally a little bit harsher than we do like we're more we give a little bit more. We don't go like toe to toe with peppers I would say so but it does it burns listen. Yeah, I think if it turns you on and like makes you want to go find your partner I'll put it at a three so I'll put your book at the three because it definitely fills those boxes. Yeah. Yes, you did a great job. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yeah. I don't think we do. No, Joss Richard: Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. You dead. Joss Richard: I'm I'm honored, thank you. Courtney: you because it's such a big trend right now, Joss, do you have your top book boyfriends? Do know who you would list as your own personal book boyfriends? Joss Richard: Ooh, I mean, obviously Adam, like I had, like on it, I'm not being biased. I really do love Adam and I. Courtney: Right. ⁓ it's fantastic. Caitlin Stryker: is going on my list. The man is what six three he can cook he's got patience like June and he can cook. Courtney: Yeah. Six four, yeah. Joss Richard: He can, and he can eat, which I, you know, you know what I mean. Courtney: Yes. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: You can eat. Courtney: He seems very well educated in how to eat properly. It seems to be his thing. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I like his choice of breakfast foods. Caitlin Stryker: So yeah. Joss Richard: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. He likes it. Yeah. Joss Richard: You know, same, same. ⁓ But I would also say, okay, I do love Miles in Funny Story, if you read Emily Henry's Funny Story. Caitlin Stryker: Okay, give us a couple more Yes, I love Miles in Funny Story. He made me want to move to the Midwest. Courtney: Yes, he's a great one. Joss Richard: Yeah, I just he he sort of was giving um, have you seen new girl? The he was sort of reminding me of nick miller who I love I Courtney: Yes, of course. Caitlin Stryker: ⁓ yeah. Courtney: Yeah, me too. I love Nick. I know. So much. Joss Richard: I love Nick so much. Yeah. So I feel like he's like equivalent to like the Nick Miller in the book, Boyfriend World. ⁓ Courtney: That's a good, that's a very good, I'm thinking forgetting the word, but comparison, yes. Joss Richard: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then one is ⁓ – have we read Akitar? Courtney: Yeah, Reese. We talked, we just talked about this the other day. Joss Richard: Like, Rea- Rea- how do we even say his name? Reasand? Rees? Caitlin Stryker: ⁓ my thank you! Okay, we just talked about this! Rice? Resand? Raisend? Joss Richard: Rice? Courtney: Reislin, Reislin? I say Reese is the short one, so probably Reislin. But I put him and Cassian together, those two, for me. Yeah. Joss Richard: I don't Caitlin Stryker: But recent, yeah, I'm Bryson, recent however you say it. Yeah. Joss Richard: Yeah, him. Absolutely. What if I was like, then Tamlin? What if I said Tamlin? Courtney: Yeah, 100 % race. This would be a different conversation. Caitlin Stryker: I'd like, you only read the first book. Courtney: Hahaha Caitlin Stryker: I things for you, but I don't want to spoil anything. Joss Richard: Yeah. So funny. No, Rhysand, Graysand, whatever. Him, absolutely. What about the two of you? Courtney: Yeah. Yes, 100%. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. ⁓ I'm so glad that you also don't know how to say it. ⁓ okay. Well, so we just did. So I'm kind of new, so I'm committing early here, but I... Courtney: Do it. Caitlin Stryker: who did I have? Well, Reese and Dyson is my number one. And then ⁓ Bash from Elsie Silver's Wildcard. He's a bush firefighter. Have you read that one? So he's not only a firefighter at help, but he also flies helicopters to put the fire out. So he's a pilot and a firefighter. Joss Richard: Mm-hmm. ⁓ yeah. Courtney: copter bush firefighter. Joss Richard: Wait. Courtney: Yeah. And he also like built his home home. Yeah. It's brand new. It came out like the end of September. Yes. That's the purple one that just came out. The pink ones, wild eyes or side or love. One of those. It's one of those three, but yeah. It's a good series. Joss Richard: Okay, wait, hold on. I didn't read that one. read… It's a pink one. That's the purple one, right? Okay. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, that's the perfect. Joss Richard: Eyes? Okay, no, no, no. I need to read the purple one because that sounds really hot. Courtney: Yes. Yeah. Wild card's good. It's a good, it's a good spice one. It's a good, yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Dude, that. Yeah, and and he's also he's also a little older too like not you know in a but i'm 40 i'm 41 so the fact that he like you read it and he's like, you know, he's a fully grown adult man So I also like that Which is mostly also why I like recent because he's a fully grown adult man, you know scary scary, but whatever Yeah, um, but then Courtney: 39. Joss Richard: Yeah. Yeah, we love. Courtney: Yes, yes, we're very into Holy Grail. Joss Richard: We love fully grown adult men, yeah. think that's just like ⁓ the standard. Like they need to be a fully grown adult man, you know? Caitlin Stryker: Slipside so I'm about to say a YA book guy like yeah, so Yeah, I like Alec from fake skating by Lynn painter But like I would be going back in time I would be like putting myself like when I was that age, you know Like I wish that I had an Alec when I was in high school ⁓ and then I only did three back when I did mine and I'm definitely adding Adam to the list because Joss Richard: okay. Courtney: Yes, we still have. I have a YA one too. can, but yours, go ahead. Joss Richard: Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yay! Caitlin Stryker: can cook and he's so he kind of gives me like JFK jr vibes like as you described him in his look you know so i kept seeing him and just that really like classically like tall dark and handsome look just yeah or like george clunyish i don't know something in there was like happening with adam for me as i was picturing him Joss Richard: ⁓ Yeah. Ooh, I love it. Courtney: I feel like he's like, you know when people post like hot guy reading pictures, they'll post them on Instagram and stuff sometimes. feel like he'd be hot and someone would post a picture of him on the subway like reading a novel, standing at the hall on his way to work. Yeah, yeah, I feel like that'd be him. 100%. So my number one is a YA one, but again, is like me as a teenager, but Wes from Better Than the Movies, Lynn Painter, Better Than the Movies, Wes. He's my number one, love him so much. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yeah. Joss Richard: He would. He would. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: ⁓ Okay, then. Joss Richard: ⁓ okay, yep. Yeah, yeah. Courtney: Number two for me is Zayden, ⁓ because Fourth Wing was my first romanticie. It was like my first foray into it and Zayden just... Have you read it? Okay. Joss Richard: Okay. I have read Fourth Wing. I read it right after Akatar. So I naturally was comparing. It's hard and I'm mad that I did it because if I didn't, I think I would have, you know, been more open-minded with it. I like… Okay, I don't actually remember much about Zayden. I just remember it being like a supposed… It's supposed to be like enemies to lovers. And I was like… I am not, like this man is down bad from the minute he is on the page. Like there, I am not worried for this girl's life at all. Like I'm like, you cannot convince me that this man will hurt her. Like I was like, yeah, he is so down bad for her. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Hmm. Courtney: Yeah, Cait has not read it, we'll give her the... But, ⁓ no, no, you didn't, it's fine. Like you said, it's really obvious. It's not that for me, I agree. And I didn't, I, I, everyone, it's, it's obvious what's going to happen. It's, it's not a surprise. The cliffhanger is like the actual cliffhanger of the book, not the like enemy to lover, whatever happens between them. But there's something about him. Caitlin Stryker: Amazing. Love it. Joss Richard: ⁓ my god, I'm so sorry. Caitlin Stryker: No, no, I didn't get anything from that. didn't ruin anything for me. Courtney: One, his description is like he basically looks like my husband, so I think that's a big part of it for me. They look very similar. It's just the, I don't know, it's the person that just like gets her and holds her up, but doesn't hold her back. It's that part that he's so supportive, yet like fights her and makes her like fight for herself too. That attracts me so much to him. It's the person that part of it will hold the mirror up to you and be like, okay, but, and not let you get away with your shit at the same time. And so. Caitlin Stryker: Hahaha Joss Richard: Love that. Mm-hmm. Courtney: And also the sex with him is very fucking hot when it happens in my opinion. I wanted more of it but I found it very hot. Yeah, there's never that was dated. And then I have Rhyslyn and Cassian kind of tied. What's my next? But I forgot about Rip Slade from Guild. I don't know if you read the Guild series. Joss Richard: Yeah. Love it. Love. Caitlin Stryker: Amazing. Joss Richard: No, I haven't. Courtney: Okay, when you guys do, because it's very good, it's actually worth reading. I just read it recently and I was late to the party. The male main character in that, Rip Slade. ⁓ my God. Yeah, I can't believe I forgot about him. So hot, so good. Definitely like Rhyslyn adjacent, for sure. ⁓ But Rhys is still, know, but definitely adjacent. And then I love ⁓ Sam from Every Summer After. Caitlin Stryker: Nice. ⁓ Joss Richard: Ooh, okay. Caitlin Stryker: Wow. Yeah. Courtney: He's a doctor. He's loved her. He was the best friend. He's just how can you not love Sam? I don't remember what else I said after that. I'll throw Adam on there now though. Yeah Definitely. There's so many. ⁓ and I love Jasper from Powerless. Yeah, he's in there for sure. He's a good one Yeah, LC Silver, Powerless, Jasper was a big one for me. Yeah, there's so many. It took me so long when I was thinking but originally I got so hot and I was like this feels like it's super important even though it's not Joss Richard: ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Right? Dude, he's in. He's in the club. Joss Richard: I'll take it. ⁓ Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Joss Richard: Those are all good. And I feel like it'll change like the more books you read too, right? Like you'll bump some down and then yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Right? Courtney: 100%. Yeah, but you did, I think you did read the, I read Fourth Wing then at guitar and I think that's an easier way to take in because then the world kept building for me as opposed to I think I would go backwards like you did. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: ⁓ yeah, for sure. Joss Richard: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Right. So interesting. I can't wait to like, it's been, I read after last year, so it'll be good when I get to fourth wing. I know it's like, it'll be new. It won't be back to back, which is good. Yeah. Yeah. Joss, this has been amazing. Thank you so much for spending so much time with us and for writing this delicious book. It's the perfect fall read. ⁓ Joss Richard: Yeah, that's enough time. Yeah. Courtney: Yes. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: even into the holiday season or any time of year but it's just it's so good I'm definitely going to be coming back to it probably year over year in the fall Courtney: Ha! Joss Richard: Thank you. Thank you so much. I know it means so much to me to be on and to be the first guest. I'm truly honored. And also the fact that you both just like love June and Adam. This has been such like a filling conversation and so lovely. And I'm just, I'm so, so grateful for your time. Courtney: Okay. our pleasure. I'm so glad you brought them into our world. It's just, it's enriched everything. There's a quote that you'll love. We've said on here, Joss, but you talking about smut. ⁓ And it's a quote that says, you don't need spice for a book to be good. And that says, well, you don't need running shoes to run, but it fucking helps. Caitlin Stryker: amazing! Yeah. Hahaha Joss Richard: That part. That part. Yeah, it's like people are like, ⁓ you can skip these chapters if you, I was like, why would I skip those chapters? ⁓ Courtney: Why? Yeah, the what? Caitlin Stryker: Like, I'm reading it for these chapters. In fact, every book that doesn't have these chapters, I'm questioning if it's worth my time. Joss Richard: No, absolutely. Well, just feel like that's such a... And I understand why people, you know, teach their own if they don't feel comfortable reading it, but I just feel like that is... Having a sexual relationship with someone is such a big part of intimacy and a relationship that it's like I couldn't read a romance without that element because it's so crucial to a dynamic, the dynamic of two people. Caitlin Stryker: you Joss Richard: So I feel like for me, there is something missing if we don't see what they're like in the bedroom and sharing that experience together. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, I love how you put that. That's a really great way to put it. Very cool. Courtney: 100%. Yes. Joss Richard: And if done, I am also just going to say, I feel like you can tell when smut is added to a book just for smut. And sometimes that's great. Sometimes we want those things. Sometimes we just want like smut, smut without a plot. But I feel like for books where you're like, for books where people can say, you can skip these chapters to keep reading. Caitlin Stryker: Mmm, you can. Chup! Courtney: Yes. Mm-hmm. Joss Richard: I feel like if you can really skip those chapters and the story will not be affected, it is not a well thought out smut scene because I feel like when two people are having sex in a book, I feel like they should be different from the beginning and the end. Like they both have to go through something as they are experiencing this together. And if you can just pull that out, then nothing really emotional has happened between the two of them and their characters have not developed. ⁓ Caitlin Stryker: Hmm. Courtney: Mm-hmm. Joss Richard: So that's just like my hot take when it comes to Smut and people saying like, ⁓ like you don't need to read it or you can skip these chapters. I like there's a reason why the author wrote it because it's important to their character development. So yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yes, yes, absolutely. I validate that hot take. actually think there's a lot there. Yeah, really appreciate it because I think that's also part of what we're talking about on this podcast is that like there's a point. It's not like don't just overlook it. If you're tempted to overlook it, ask why. Courtney: I love that. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's perfect. Yeah, it's a good way to look at it. Joss Richard: Okay. All right. I am getting off my little soapbox now for that, but yeah. ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. Courtney: Yeah, in life too. Caitlin Stryker: You know, and maybe you should read through it. You might discover something that's kind of nice for yourself down the line. Yeah. Joss Richard: Yeah. Courtney: Yeah. Joss Richard: Yeah. Courtney: to say you see it even the next just because Chloe is still like, wait, something happened. Like they can't even, they change so much just in that experience. Like they can't hide it despite their best effort. Like if you didn't read that chapter, you'd be like, what? Like it wouldn't make sense exactly like you said. ⁓ It changes them. They're not the same people anymore. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Okay. Yeah. Joss Richard: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, absolutely. my gosh, it's so good. We could talk for hours. ⁓ But ⁓ is it for today's episode of Cait and Court's Cozy Corner Romance Readers. Talking with author Joss Richard about her book, It's Different This Time. ⁓ so fantastic. Definitely read it if haven't read it. ⁓ And Joss can't wait for the next one, especially since it's going to be spicier. Joss Richard: It sure is. It sure is. I'm a little nervous for how people will, you know, like it or not like it, but I'm excited. I'm excited. And I'll be sharing more soon. Courtney: . Caitlin Stryker: ⁓ amazing. We can't wait. All right. We'll be talking with you all again soon. Bye. Courtney: Yay! Can't wait.