Latest / Gladden Longevity Podcast / Revolutionizing Bone Health with JUVENT Technology - Episode 276

Transcript

Revolutionizing Bone Health with JUVENT Technology - Episode 276 · Gladden Longevity Podcast

0:28
Welcome everybody to this edition of the Gladden Longevity Podcast.
0:31
I'm your host, Dr.
0:32
Jeffrey Gladden.
0:33
And as always, we're here to help answer four or five questions.
0:37
How good can you be?
0:39
How do you make 100 to new 30?
0:40
How do you live well beyond 120?
0:42
How do you live young for a lifetime?
0:44
And how do you end up with a 30 year old body and a 300 year old mind when you're a hundred years old?
0:50
So we're talking today with a gentleman, Peter Simonson, his PhD in mechanical engineering.
0:58
And he's basically left the engineering world to go into the health world.
1:03
That's going to be a really interesting conversation.
1:06
He's associated with a device called Juvent, J-U-V-E-N-T.
1:11
And it's one of the most fascinating conversations about bone health and structural health and healing and general overall body rejuvenation.
1:20
It's a vitakin.
1:22
He's coined a new term, vitakin.
1:24
It has to do with kinetic energy.
1:26
and impact energy in the body and its overall health benefits.
1:29
I found this a really fascinating conversation.
1:31
If you're suffering with any pain, healing, joint problems, et cetera, you're gonna wanna listen to this in a big way.
1:38
So enjoy.
1:43
Welcome everybody to this edition of the Gladden Longevity Podcast.
1:46
I'm your host, Dr.
1:47
Jeffrey Gladden.
1:48
And today I'm here with Peter Simonson.
1:50
Peter is a interesting character involved in interesting things related to bone health and keeping bones strong.
1:57
So welcome to the show, Peter.
1:59
Hey, thank you very much.
2:00
Pleasure to be here.
2:01
So Peter, let's understand a little bit about how you got involved with this.
2:08
I usually say when you're five years old, I'm sure you wanted to do this when you grew up.
2:12
right, so tell us a little bit about your path to getting where you are now.
2:17
Sure.
2:18
Well, know, academically, if I have a degree of mechanical engineering from Georgia Tech and out of school, I went to work for a large industrial automation company, Rockwell, and
2:27
did that for about three years.
2:30
long story short, I quit that job.
2:32
didn't like the I was at the top of the career ladder.
2:37
I saw where the career ladder led.
2:38
I didn't want to be there.
2:39
So I started selling spinal implants.
2:43
And so that put me in the LR watching hundreds of these surgeries.
2:47
But I'm an engineer and I'm an inventor.
2:50
so I was watching these surgeons struggle over and over again, so I invented a better mousetrap.
2:57
And what were the struggles that you were observing?
3:00
Well, typically, the spinal, when you're a spinal incision, the incision can be quite deep.
3:05
The anatomy obviously is very sensitive and you're having to assemble this construct that has to really be an internal cast and be extremely strong both in static and fatigue
3:15
loading for a long period of time.
3:17
When the surgeon is placing these screws for stabilization, he is very much slave to the anatomy of the spine, the pedicle.
3:27
And so these have to go in there in that narrow path.
3:30
And if you're putting two, four, six, 10 of these, it's really tough to get a solid, quick connection in that operating in a small incision.
3:39
So the original goal of my implant was to make it easier.
3:45
And it did, but we were able to leverage that and it became one of the most popular spine systems in the world.
3:53
and it was so momentronic, of the largest, the largest medical device maker in the world.
3:58
And the indications went from just simple DGEN cases to tumor trauma and complex deformity.
4:05
And so.
4:06
audience understands, so what we're talking about here is people have a spinal issue and a lot of times it could be in the bone, but a lot of times it's in the disc and that can
4:17
lead to impingement of nerves or the spinal cord itself, which can cause a lot of pain and also dysfunction and lower extremity weakness, even loss of bowel and bladder control.
4:28
So there's a lot that goes on here.
4:31
And these surgeries can be done for trauma, for rehabilitating or rebuilding spines, but also for people that have wear and tear issues where things have deteriorated to the point
4:40
where they're stuck with chronic pain or sciatica pain down the leg, things like that, right?
4:44
So in these surgeries, what they're going to try to do is go back in and re-stabilize the spine, but also create a more youthful geometry for the nerves to be able to not be
4:56
impinged upon or the spinal cord to be impinged upon by
5:00
by certain structures.
5:02
But to your point, it's a delicate operation.
5:05
So what was the actual device?
5:07
Was it something that replaced the disk?
5:09
Or what was it exactly that you were doing?
5:12
Yeah, so this is what's called a pedicle screw.
5:15
And a pedicle is the kind of the part of the spine that holds up the dome in the back called the lamina.
5:22
And I'll just try to use the layman's terms, but you have the vertebral body in front, these two posts going back, that's the pedicle.
5:28
And that holds the posterior architecture.
5:31
Well, these screws would go in the pedicle, because that's a great way to get fixation on the spine.
5:36
And so that's what we would be connecting together.
5:39
The spine has three roles.
5:41
support weight, allow mobility, and protect the nerve structure.
5:45
And so in this surgery, what you do is sometimes you have to give up one of those in terms of mobility just to lock the spine in place, keep the nerves freed up, and then kind of
5:56
live with two out of the three.
5:57
In the future, even currently now, I mean, I've been in this for many, many years, and I really stopped doing it almost a decade ago.
6:04
But now the goal is to obviously use, yeah, and use like artificial discs and that sort of thing.
6:11
and that will gradually take over, majority cases it's better just to fuse it.
6:16
And those get more complicated with deformity cases where you're using the implant as actually a corrective mechanism.
6:24
Right, right.
6:24
So you're like somebody with scoliosis or something like that.
6:28
Is that what you're talking about?
6:30
Yeah.
6:30
so, you know, I've spent I've spent I've literally traveled and probably 50 states and 30 countries training salespeople and surgeons with my implant system and how to use it and,
6:42
you know, taking their technique anatomically and working with mine mechanically.
6:47
And so I got to really understand the kind of an interesting vantage point of medicine.
6:53
Now, spinal fusion is essentially growing bone together.
6:56
And I didn't know it at the time, but there were two
6:59
technologies that were used for site-specific non-unions.
7:04
Okay, that's where, for example, somebody's a smoker, has other conditions, and so these technologies were one was electric and one was ultrasound.
7:13
And I didn't realize it at the time, but the guy who put those together was the creator of Juven.
7:20
And so when...
7:21
us about electrical and ultrasound, how those played into this, this spinal reconstruction or stabilization or whatever.
7:28
Yeah, so there's two ways to really hack the bone.
7:30
One is using EMF, electromagnetic waves, the other is using ultrasonic waves.
7:35
But yeah, yeah, mean, that's its own complex topic.
7:41
But the limitation is they're site-specific and you really, that's really all they're doing is increasing bone growth and fracture healing.
7:49
And Jack Ryby, the guy behind this, his, holy grail was to go after osteoporosis.
7:55
That's where you're really trying to systemically heal bone and its density as opposed to make surgery minimal.
8:05
Fixing a focal problem.
8:06
Yeah, exactly.
8:07
So, right.
8:09
the kind of the way I got into this was one of my surgeons, I worked with some really smart surgeons and one of my surgeons had an idea for a paper and he thought he had found
8:18
the cytokine responsible for back pain.
8:22
And I told him, I said, listen, that's not a paper, that's a company.
8:25
So my brother and I helped put together, became a biotech company.
8:30
turned out the original presumption was wrong, but in the course of that, my brother and the team found, and him as well,
8:37
this large team found a new novel protein.
8:39
And so that company went on to develop a therapeutic around that.
8:44
But what that did for me was it showed me how far ahead science was ahead of medicine.
8:51
my gosh, yeah, right.
8:52
And so, you know, we were putting together, I think 13 years ago, what no one even had a name for, they call it functional medicine now.
9:00
But we were looking for ways to really bring all this science to the clinical thing as fast as we could, especially when it was safe.
9:09
So in part of that, you do due diligence looking at all these different technologies and this one was brought to us, but the guy had died, Jack Ryby died.
9:18
So he got the company started, put on,
9:21
great path of research development, but he died and the company, ran it into the ground and it was no longer viable.
9:28
So we started doing, we did about a month of due diligence.
9:32
And part of that was, you know, homework.
9:35
We borrowed a platform from a user who had osteoporosis.
9:39
Now we're digging into the literature.
9:40
In the meantime, my mother, who was 78 at the time, she had a pelvic fracture at 76.
9:47
She fell.
9:48
And at 78, she had a pelvic non-union flare-up.
9:52
And she was pretty much...
9:56
and basically broke her pelvis, right?
9:58
You understand where that is.
9:59
But then this non-union, this is a, this can be a common problem in older people.
10:04
They don't have enough regenerative power left in the bones to actually fuse the bones back together and heal the fracture itself.
10:12
And you can end up with actual non-union, meaning that the bones have kind of
10:17
They've finished their healing process, but they didn't grow back together.
10:19
So now you've got a gap, right?
10:21
This happens, you know, can happen in an arm, a leg, a pelvis can happen anywhere.
10:26
So.
10:26
That's correct.
10:27
And there's very little blood circulation there.
10:30
So painkillers don't do much.
10:31
And so she, you know, as I remember it, she was basically down 22 hours a day, up two hours a day on a walker on pain meds, the whole works.
10:40
So we said, mom, try this out.
10:42
So we get her on it.
10:44
And in about two weeks,
10:46
what's it?
10:46
What did you get her on?
10:47
The protein?
10:49
juvint platform.
10:51
So juvint is the name of the product that Jack Ryby had done and went dormant.
10:57
And originally was going for osteoporosis.
11:00
what they were doing, science has shown us that bone responds to different types of loading differently.
11:08
So we've known for a hundred years that bone grows where bone is loaded.
11:12
It's called the Wolf's Law and it's kind of a cornerstone of orthopedics.
11:15
Mm-hmm.
11:16
Today, I call it Wolf's Law 2.0.
11:19
We now know that bone doesn't really get that much out of a static load, like a weight lifting or that sort of thing.
11:26
What it really has the metabolic effect is an impact load.
11:32
And that's what we get when we walk.
11:36
Okay, that's one of the reasons why walking is a quote magical exercise.
11:39
And I don't bet that word's pretty, almost not a metaphor, but either way.
11:44
So.
11:44
What they were doing is they found out that bone can be stimulated with very, very small loads.
11:52
It's extremely mechanosensitive.
11:55
So we don't need to beat the bone.
11:57
We can tap it.
12:00
And the reason that's important is because if you're trying to get all these cycles into a patient and you're doing it 30, 40 times a second, you have to lower the energy down to
12:11
keep it safe.
12:12
because the rest of the body doesn't all respond the same.
12:15
So even starting at Cartledge, it's got a very narrow bandwidth of what it considers anabolic versus catabolic.
12:23
so, long story short, that's what this technology did.
12:26
And it wasn't easy.
12:27
And so they spent $40 million, I know for 20 patents.
12:33
so what it does is what's now called micro-impact.
12:38
So you stand on this platform.
12:40
and its vertical up and down movement is 5 % of one millimeter.
12:47
5 % of 1 millimeter.
12:49
OK, so that's 0.2.
12:50
No, that's 5%.
12:52
That's 0.5, right?
12:55
0.05 of a millimeter.
12:58
Yeah, that's a small amount of movement.
13:04
You would perceive that, I suppose, almost like a vibration as anything else.
13:08
Is that right?
13:09
So.
13:09
you would.
13:10
mean, when you're on it, you feel it, but you could be on the phone or somebody would look at you and talk to you and never know.
13:15
would know exactly.
13:18
And so this is very different from a lot of these, you know, high energy shaking plates, you know, that.
13:25
Yeah.
13:26
That's really why we think the term micro impact is more accurate because people, vibration's a very broad category.
13:32
And these other plates that are, you know, the reason this movement is so small.
13:37
is to keep it safe.
13:40
So let's talk about that for a second.
13:42
So vibration plates can be helpful for bone density.
13:47
Things like osteostrong, which is basically isometric, isotonic exercise, isometric exercises have been shown to build bone density.
13:59
But what you're talking about is that the real hack is to actually do this micro impact work.
14:04
Is that kind of what we're saying in comparison to those other strategies?
14:07
And weightlifting we know has some benefit.
14:10
Walking certainly has benefit.
14:12
It's an impact.
14:13
It's interesting to me when we measure people here and we do bone densities on everybody, the people that are big cyclists, they have great aerobic capacity, but poor bone density,
14:23
right?
14:23
It's the runners that actually.
14:25
get the best bone density and the good cardio, right?
14:29
So you gotta have some impact in your life, yeah.
14:32
That's correct.
14:33
And nature's perfect form of impact loading is walking.
14:37
Okay, running is a mixed bag.
14:39
mean, the bone is two things.
14:42
Bone is extremely mechanorezilient, but it's also extremely mechanosensitive.
14:48
So the rest of the body, not so much.
14:51
you want it, that's why we found the micro-impact is what you need.
14:54
And so what we do is that small amount of energy is used extremely efficiently with the software.
15:01
And so when a person stands on it, it will go through a safe range of frequencies to find resonance for that person at that time.
15:09
Okay, so it's actually a diagnostic tool as well as a therapeutic tool is what you're saying in a way.
15:17
Yeah, but in a sense it's diagnostic because I'm sure that a particular bone structure is going to respond to a particular resonance frequency, right?
15:27
So I would think to...
15:28
a lot of things that will affect it for example body weight body fluid content floor surface footwear I mean, so what it's doing is it's saying look whatever you throw at us
15:37
We're gonna find residents and that may vary over time and so each it's very agnostic So if a family has a platform, they put it in the kitchen everyone can use it and it's gonna
15:48
take no be efficient for everyone and hurt no one Does that make sense?
15:53
Yeah, it does make sense.
15:55
So it seems like you'd want to put these in every nursing home in country, right?
16:01
Every...
16:02
my God.
16:05
And I'm gonna give you, this is Pete's statistic.
16:07
I'm very careful what I say, because I'm used to talking with surgeons and I don't like to make metaphors without disclosing that.
16:13
to be wordy, but after doing this for 10, 12 years, my number is, this would add five years to anyone's vertical lifespan.
16:22
Okay, I mean, you wouldn't believe the stories.
16:25
We have a standard policy in place.
16:27
Let me give you statistic.
16:28
It sounds commercial, but it's actually a very,
16:31
powerful clinical tool here.
16:33
We see a lot of situations reverse and we'll talk today about skeletal metabolism.
16:39
That's the real headline here.
16:42
but we can't make all the claims of the things we see happening all the time.
16:47
We don't have double bond perspective, multi-center randomized studies.
16:50
So what we tell people is you get on this and in six weeks of usage for you, your family, as many times as can use it, if you don't think it's worth it, we'll buy it back.
17:00
So we have a
17:01
We have a treatment, whatever you wanna call it, that has a $6,000 motivation for the user to say, no, I don't want this.
17:10
We have a 98.5 % success rate.
17:15
wow, so people in about 6K and then get their 6K back at the end of six weeks, but nobody nobody sends it back.
17:23
We have 1.5 % come back.
17:27
Because it's a real policy.
17:29
It's not just some metaphor, blah, blah, blah.
17:30
We'll pay the shipping.
17:31
We don't care.
17:32
mean, we don't want anybody unhappy because we know how it is.
17:36
Now, the platforms that come back, a third of those have no usage.
17:39
No one used it.
17:41
So if you really wanted to be whatever.
17:45
But yeah, you compare that success rate to most procedures.
17:51
It's a stellar performer.
17:53
And know, either way, that's, that's kind of it.
17:57
Yeah.
17:58
So.
17:58
I've got a couple of questions for you.
18:02
you know, with a micro impact, you're stimulating bone growth.
18:06
You know, one of the things that we understand is that what we've seen empirically is that really to get good bone growth, you have to have people hormonally optimized.
18:17
You need some testosterone, some estrogen, you need some growth hormone release, you need some things like that to actually really help build bone.
18:24
And then you've got to be nutritionally replete, of course, things that can build protein and matrix and calcium and vitamin K2 and vitamin D and things like this.
18:34
Maybe some boron.
18:36
But if you get people doing that and then if you get them doing the right exercises, we will see bone density improve.
18:46
I would imagine that if we have people that are, let's call it metabolically optimized going into this, that they would see results that would be pretty dramatic pretty quickly.
18:56
I don't know.
18:56
That's a hypothesis, but you tell me.
18:59
Yeah, so bone and quick don't generally go together, in a contextual sense, yes.
19:05
And what we would see there is fracture healing.
19:08
you I, you brought us some really good points, so I don't want to get off that, but let me put down fracture healing.
19:16
So you're correct.
19:18
Bone growth, like anything in medicine and biology, it's never a one-to-one linear relationship.
19:23
Okay.
19:23
The way I explain it is those things you mentioned for bone growth are all links in a chain.
19:29
Mm-hmm.
19:30
And when you're the last link and somebody adds your link, they call you the cure.
19:36
It's not true.
19:37
You're just one of the links.
19:39
So what Juvent is supplying is one of those links.
19:42
Now if you're missing two or three other links, guess what?
19:44
You don't have a chain.
19:46
But you're gonna need that link.
19:47
And you've intuitively already figured that out.
19:51
So with regard to bone growth, now that is only one thing, because that's actually not the headline here.
19:56
I know that sounds crazy, but it's interesting.
19:58
But with regard to bone growth, had a friend of mine, you know, I used to do spinal surgeries all the time, and a friend of mine had what's called an ACDF, anterior cervical
20:08
discectomy infusion.
20:10
Okay, that's where they come going through the throat, they move the esophagus aside, they do a discectomy, infuse the, you know, the cervical spine.
20:19
It's the most common spinal fusion done.
20:21
This is the neurosurgeon or spine surgeon's equivalent of a cavity.
20:26
I mean, they don't do this once every now and then.
20:28
They'll do three a week.
20:31
So one of my colleagues was getting an ACDF, a cervical fusion.
20:36
So we said, hey, you're a Juvent user, let's document the heck out of this.
20:41
And so he, you know, the doctor knew, everyone knew what we were doing.
20:44
Everyone was on the same page.
20:45
So we got these fabulous post-op x-rays, you know, just before you do the close.
20:49
And then we did the follow-up x-rays.
20:52
Now I took those follow-up x-rays to over a hundred spine surgeons.
20:58
and had them guess what the delta was between the post-op and the intraoperative and the post-op follow-up.
21:05
The guesses were generally about nine to 12 months.
21:08
They went from 18 months down to about three months.
21:13
When I tell them it's a six week x-ray, they look at me like, Pete, if it wasn't coming from you, I'd call bullshit.
21:21
And so we see that with people fracture healing all the time.
21:26
You know, it's absolutely a metabolic catalyst for bone growth.
21:30
I love that so much.
21:31
know, when we were, when I was back doing interventional cardiology, you know, we would send people in for cabbage and we would, some of them would get median sternotomies,
21:39
right?
21:39
Where they basically cut through the sternum to open the chest to pimpass or put the valve in.
21:45
And we would tell people that it would take a year for that to heal fully.
21:49
And that, you know, it would be, you know, 50 % healed in three months and 75 % at six months and be fully healed in a year.
21:56
That was basically the dogma at the time.
21:59
But if you could heal something like that in six weeks, right?
22:03
And get people return to activity that much faster.
22:06
The reason this is so important if you're listening to this is what we found is that the time that you are debilitated has a massive impact on your trajectory going forward.
22:19
So let's say you're in your 60s or 70s or 80s or 50s even, and you undergo knee replacement surgery, right?
22:27
And you're going to be, you know, you can't bike, you can't run, you can't do certain things because you got to heal.
22:32
Right.
22:32
So, but when you add those weeks together, you know, for every week that you're out, almost for every day that you're out, it takes about a week to actually get back your
22:43
physical capacity.
22:44
So if you're out for six weeks, just do the math, it's going to take almost a year for you to really reclaim your full level of activity.
22:50
So if you can shorten this.
22:52
It's not just about the healing, it's about actually preserving your ability to function at a high level and get back to that as soon as possible.
22:59
So there's a massive win for you in this, right?
23:02
It's beyond just the bone healing, it's the return to function, let's call it, that's so heavily impacted here.
23:10
That's what I'm hearing.
23:11
Yeah, well that's interesting because what we found is bone requires impact loading for normal metabolism.
23:21
So for many people it's recovering from a wound or surgery or an accident and that sort of thing and you get that, but you also have an entire, really a majority of our population
23:33
who don't get enough mechanical impact stimulation.
23:37
They systemically have the second most important organ system in the body.
23:41
not functioning.
23:43
Now that's old statement what I just said, okay?
23:45
And I'll tell you why, because the skeleton is an organ system, so we have 12 or 13 organ systems depending how you want to classify them.
23:54
And bone is number two.
23:56
Now people go, well, what do you mean?
23:58
Because I'm not gonna put you on the spot, but I'll share with you.
24:03
I've asked fellowship trained MD scientist researchers.
24:10
this question, what's the primary function of the skeletal system?
24:15
And they'll answer, to hold you up.
24:18
And that's absolutely wrong.
24:21
Okay, well it certainly does hold you up, but it certainly enables you to move and everything else, right?
24:27
mean, without it, you can't move, so yeah.
24:30
But in priority, that's about third on the list.
24:33
Its actual primary functions are metabolic.
24:36
So number one, its job is to produce stem cells.
24:40
So bone produces two major classes of stem cells.
24:43
Let's call it liquids and solids.
24:45
On the liquid side, it produces our red blood cells for oxygen transport.
24:50
It produces our white blood cells for our entire immune system, for most of it.
24:57
yep.
24:57
got certainly the B cells.
25:02
And then the solids side, those stem cells become one of, used to be five, we're up to nine things.
25:10
Okay, but those cells, that same cell called the mesochymal can become bone, muscle, fat, cartilage, connective tissue.
25:18
Now we know endothelial tissue, nerve sensory tissue, specific organ tissues that we're still getting our heads around.
25:27
And you start to see that becomes the main picture.
25:32
And on Juvent, you have 46 % more stem cells being produced.
25:38
that's fascinating.
25:39
I like that.
25:39
So that's actual stem cells being produced.
25:42
So it's the marrow of the bone that's producing these things for the most part.
25:48
There are stem cells in the bone matrix itself also, but these mesenchymal stem cells that are used therapeutically for other things are formed there.
26:00
There are mesenchymal stem cells formed elsewhere in the body.
26:02
Every organ system has its own.
26:05
stem cell, progenitor cell line, so to speak.
26:09
But that's how we renew ourselves.
26:12
it is interesting that, yeah, when you phrase the question as what's the importance of the skeletal system, then it becomes a structural question.
26:20
When you look at it through the metabolic lens, now you're talking about the marrow and what's actually going on, right?
26:25
So therein lies the question.
26:27
classifications are mineral lipid storage to keep our heart pumping in real time.
26:32
And then the third major function is as a full member of the endocrine system.
26:36
So it produces five unique hormones of its own and it chemically talks to every other organ in the body with a first secondhand conversation.
26:45
So this explains, we think, which we don't make claims for, why we see people getting better blood pressure management on Juvent, their erections back on Juvent,
26:55
RLS, rejuvenant, diabetes management, getting easier, those are all hormonal.
27:00
And you've got this organ system that requires this.
27:03
This is one of its fundamental data requirements of the second most important organ system.
27:08
So you can expect some pretty spectacular and diverse effects by giving it what it needs.
27:13
I mean, if you give the words enough air, guess what?
27:15
They do a lot of things.
27:17
And so the, now,
27:20
Now, let me ask you this, because I love all this.
27:23
You know what I love about it is it really shows that the body is an integrated system.
27:30
Every organ system is talking to everything else, right?
27:32
And everything is talking to the nervous system, and the nervous system is talking to everything else also.
27:36
But I love the interconnectedness of all this.
27:38
And I think when you're thinking about, let's call it exercise, this is a form of exercise in a way, right?
27:46
It's a stimulated exercise, but it's exercise nonetheless.
27:50
you when you think about exercise and all the different benefits it has across all the different organ tissues, it fits right into that conversation, right?
27:58
Almost really as a form of exercise.
27:59
So kind of interesting.
28:01
the way that I classify it is a vitamin of exercise.
28:10
Now, let me...
28:10
little further in your own thinking.
28:13
Sure.
28:14
So I'm gonna introduce a new word, but I wanna give you the context first, because then it'll make total sense.
28:19
So we're talking about neologisms here, if you're not familiar with that term.
28:23
Neologisms is where you basically create a new word.
28:26
So here we go.
28:27
You nailed it.
28:28
That's a new word for me to learn about creating a new word.
28:30
So the irony is too thick here.
28:32
I love it.
28:36
a vitamin has three relevant characteristics.
28:40
It's required for normal metabolism.
28:43
It's found in nature and it's always a subcomponent.
28:46
So my favorite one to use is vitamin C.
28:48
We don't have vitamin C trees.
28:50
We have grapefruits, oranges, grapes, everything, right?
28:54
Right.
28:56
Now.
28:56
If I look at exercise, exercise can be broken down into three subcomponents, movement and two types of force, okay, static and impact.
29:08
Dynamic, yeah.
29:09
So what Juven is doing is taking that component and delivering it in a much more efficient, convenient package, just like if I took a vitamin C pill versus eating 10
29:19
oranges.
29:21
Now, is a vitamin a replacement?
29:23
Sure.
29:24
audience sakes and your sake.
29:25
When you take a vitamin C pill, you're not getting vitamin C.
29:28
You're getting ascorbic acid, right?
29:31
Vitamin C is actually a much more complex compound.
29:33
It's an organic compound.
29:35
Ascorbic acid is in the center, but it's actually an antioxidant because of all of the other molecular components around it.
29:42
That's an antioxidant.
29:43
Ascorbic acid, on the other hand, is an oxidant, which is why when you give it in high doses, it's used to treat cancer or a virus or things like that.
29:51
So just to be clear.
29:52
I'm good friends with Paul Merrick and he's done some great stuff on that.
29:55
That would be a topic for another day.
29:57
But to your point, the synthesized is not a replacement for the natural.
30:03
So Juvent is a supplement.
30:05
It's a vitamin.
30:05
You would add it to your mechanical diet.
30:08
And if I could, you there, hold on, think we got disconnected.
30:13
So.
30:14
Yeah, you broke up for a second.
30:15
Start right after the vitamin C thing.
30:17
Yeah, so to your point, the natural is better than the synthetic.
30:23
So Juvent is a, in that same context, it's a supplement to add to an exercise diet as a supplement or as a replacement.
30:34
But we want people to impact the natural way, which is walking.
30:40
Walking is nature's, I consider it the perfect exercise.
30:45
And one of the reasons is that impact load of the step.
30:49
That's why walking is better than bicycling.
30:52
And so I break exercise into three types.
30:55
Muscle, which would be like lifting weights, cardiovascular, which is bicycling, then weight loss, which would be walking.
31:05
And walking is a kind of, often there's more things going on here.
31:10
But that impact.
31:11
That impact phenomena is one of the reasons why walking is so important in all the blue zones.
31:18
know, everywhere where there's That's right.
31:20
walk inadvertently, right?
31:22
They walk inadvertently.
31:23
They walk because they're going to see their neighbor.
31:25
They're walking because they're going to the garden.
31:26
They're walking because they're, you know, going out to dinner, whatever it is, right?
31:30
So they walk kind of just naturally, not just a prescribed walk.
31:37
Yeah.
31:37
to the vitamin analogy, Juven's discovery is almost like a history rhyming with the discovery of vitamin C.
31:45
So vitamin C was eventually discovered in this quest to reverse scurvy.
31:50
And scurvy is disease that killed sailors for 300 years.
31:55
And guess what?
31:55
turns out it was vitamin C was, quote, the cure.
31:59
But really, that's not the way to look at it.
32:01
Vitamin C isn't a scurvy drug.
32:03
Vitamin C is a fundamental daily requirement, has a thousand uses.
32:08
So scurvy is the clinical presentation of a chronic deficiency.
32:12
So what I see is this the vitamin of exercise, this is reversing, look at scurvy, if you put the full symptom list down, it's gonna be a dozen things.
32:22
And if you look, people call it kinetic scurvy or mechanical scurvy.
32:28
When you get on a jute, you see all of these things turn around because you're giving the body what it needs.
32:34
And as a vitamin, it has the same dosing, I need it every day or regularly.
32:40
It has the same response, it's not gonna cure me in two hours.
32:45
It has the same retention.
32:47
If I miss a day, that's not the end of the world.
32:50
And it has the same indication, geriatric to pediatric.
32:55
Now, this.
32:56
it's a good analogy.
32:57
Well, and I realize it's beyond an analogy.
33:00
So the word vitamin was originally vital amino.
33:04
And it was the first time they discovered a biological compound that wasn't a mineral.
33:08
You know, it wasn't on the periodic table.
33:10
And it really wasn't an amino, but the name stuck.
33:14
Okay, so if I look at this, I go, well, we're vital, but we're not amino, we're not even chemical.
33:19
We're kinetic.
33:21
So I call it a vitakin instead of a vitamin.
33:25
It's a vital.
33:27
Kinetic.
33:29
new science needs new words.
33:31
So if we're gonna address this, the field of mechanotherapy, one MD, PhD from Harvard said it will be as significant as surgery was 150 years ago.
33:42
And so we do need new names and we need to put this as, teach doctors to look for this on patient intake.
33:51
Listen carefully to where their body is getting, we listen to their diet.
33:55
but listen to their mechanical diet and are they getting impact?
34:00
And sometimes it's easy and obvious, sometimes it's a little bit more subtle.
34:04
Because a lot of people, like I work with pro athletes who don't get impact.
34:07
Because I mean, they don't want to risk it.
34:11
That's getting in the weeds here, but the point is.
34:14
and cyclists are not really getting a lot of impact, right?
34:17
So, will add one thing about walking and that is that it's inadequate to build your VO2 max with walking because we measure that on everybody here too.
34:30
To build VO2, you've got to actually do, you know, what we find is you've got to do stage three.
34:35
Everybody's talking about stage two.
34:37
which is walking essentially, but you really need to get into stage three and then do some interval training into stage five to really maximize your cardio and VO two is super
34:45
important.
34:46
So even though walking is a wonderful exercise for the impact that we're talking about here, just realize that, you you want to mix it up with the other stuff too, right?
34:54
We just talked.
34:55
because walking is not weightlifting and it's not, as you say, getting the proper cardiovascular, but it's just it's a third type of exercise.
35:02
And so, you know, it's not one or the other.
35:04
It's yes, we need them all.
35:06
so.
35:08
So that's really at the end of the day, the take home point here is if you think you're going to be healthy without a proper vital supplement or activity, good luck.
35:20
I mean, you're literally taking the second most important organ system in the body.
35:24
and letting it starve of one of its requirements, you're chasing your tail.
35:30
And so this is, in our careers, okay, the last vitamin discovery was in the 40s, okay?
35:39
We don't see this coming along very often of a fundamental daily requirement.
35:46
This is rare territory.
35:48
And the most important things of medicine now and the future is two things.
35:55
identified deficiencies and address deficiencies and remove toxins.
36:01
Those are the most standard things.
36:04
Okay.
36:06
Yeah, you want to remove toxins, you want to identify deficiencies, you also want to actually counteract the hallmarks of aging, right?
36:14
If you're really going to review it usefully, right?
36:17
And that's more than removing toxins.
36:20
That comes down to kind of activating stem cells, reactivating mitochondria, regrowing telomeres.
36:28
you things like that.
36:29
So there's, think in the longevity space, you're really looking at that as well.
36:33
So.
36:34
would add those.
36:34
You know, I'm covering more of the, you know, the
36:37
the health, more the health piece.
36:38
I get it.
36:39
Right, yeah.
36:40
And so, Juven is kind of doing both.
36:43
There's a secondary mechanism of action we can talk about if you like.
36:47
Bone and muscle are a little bit like heart and lung.
36:51
They're kind of married.
36:52
They don't really do anything without the other being affected directly or indirectly.
36:57
so, when the Juven platform, the person stands on it, its motion, as small as it is, is enough to invoke
37:06
a muscular response that's clinically relevant in about three or four indications.
37:11
So first of all, are not, muscle strains are not all the same.
37:16
We won't get too deep into it, but there's different muscle fibers for different muscles.
37:21
So the muscle fibers that help us balance are not the same as the ones that help us lift and jump.
37:26
Okay?
37:27
Those muscle fibers many times can become attenuated or atrophied where an older person can't stand up anymore.
37:35
Mm-hmm.
37:36
They have the inner ear, vestibular, and the neural systems are fine.
37:39
The muscles just don't carry out the commands quick enough to have a control loop.
37:44
And so that effect is they're off balance.
37:46
Now, Juvent, we have papers on this of them getting those muscle fiber types.
37:51
It's like having a personal trainer focused on that type.
37:54
We get incredible improvements in balance.
37:57
That's one indication.
37:59
The second indication is that muscular motion is clinically relevant, and I give you
38:04
amazing pictures on our website and all over of studies of inducing lymphatic flow.
38:12
So both lymphatic and blood flow.
38:14
Now the two are connected, but there's a big difference.
38:17
The lymph system is about the same complexity as our blood system, but it doesn't have a heart.
38:24
It requires exclusively on neighboring muscular activity to pump it, keep things moving.
38:30
So a lot of people, they
38:33
will accumulate waste in the lower limbs that is not going anywhere.
38:36
And their feet get very big and it's called edema, know, fat feet, so to speak.
38:40
And what Juvent does is the second indication is it promotes that lymphatic flow that you can A, get rid of those feet, but also our lymph system is our detox and our immune
38:51
system.
38:53
And so, know, Dr.
38:58
Bowerschmidt at his clinic in South Carolina called Deeper Healing.
39:03
He's got a detox protocol and Juvent's one third of the protocol.
39:07
And because that's the way of moving, transferring that out of the system.
39:14
And the third benefit is blood flow.
39:19
So our legs act as a second heart.
39:21
That's right.
39:23
Our legs act as a second heart.
39:25
So we see improvements in wound healing, especially distal ones.
39:30
And so with elderly people.
39:32
And so that's a secondary mechanism of action, but it's clinically really relevant.
39:37
And we've got papers on that as well.
39:43
Yeah, I love this.
39:44
This is so universally useful.
39:46
So I've got several more questions.
39:48
The first one is, what about mom?
39:51
Great story.
39:52
So we had this platform for about two weeks or so, and she was up with no pain and no pain in two weeks.
40:01
And we were like, wow, this is like, we were scratching our head.
40:03
Here we are buried in osteoporosis literature, because that's kind of where the studies were at the time.
40:08
And we had to give this platform back to an osteoporotic patient.
40:11
She said, look, I love you guys, but I kind of need my platform back.
40:14
And my mom, in about two weeks, went right back down.
40:18
And I got a call on the phone, and she said,
40:20
vitamin.
40:21
Here's the vitamin element right there.
40:22
Right.
40:24
Sorry.
40:25
There's the vitamin element.
40:26
Yeah.
40:27
I'll grab it.
40:28
got it.
40:28
Vitamin.
40:29
Yeah.
40:29
And so she got on the phone with me and I could hear it.
40:33
My mom's tough, she's tough.
40:34
And I could hear it in her voice.
40:35
said, Peter, I don't know what you're gonna do with that company, but I need one of those platforms.
40:38
And I went, damn mom, they're not taking them anymore.
40:40
so I went and scoured Facebook, eBay, Craigslist.
40:47
It took me about two or three weeks of daily searching and I found one for sale in Canada, some obscure part in Canada.
40:56
So the guy didn't know what it did, his mom died.
40:58
I said, I'll take it.
40:59
and the rest is history.
41:00
My mom is 90, she'll be 92 this year.
41:04
She's living in a three bedroom, two bath house with a swimming pool and guest house by herself.
41:10
And she ain't going anywhere.
41:12
And if she had not, I can, listen, if she didn't have that juvint, she'd have been in a nursing home at age 79.
41:21
I mean, she was going from a vertical person to a horizontal person.
41:25
Yep.
41:26
And so, you you look at the price of this thing, if it keeps one parent out of one nursing home for one month, it's paid for itself.
41:33
yeah, exactly.
41:35
Yeah.
41:35
Not to mention the medication costs and everything else.
41:38
Right.
41:39
So, yeah.
41:40
So this is.
41:43
OK, I've got a couple more questions for you around this, and you may have stories to look at this.
41:48
So so in the skeletal system, right, it's not just the bones, it's also the ligaments, the tendons, the cartilage and all of that.
41:56
So I'm curious, what is the impact?
41:59
on the rest of the components and what we would term the skeletal system from using the juvint device, the Vitakin.
42:07
Sure.
42:09
So, okay, so I'm gonna answer carefully, because I don't want to out drive my headlights here.
42:17
In terms of the stem cells that the bone produces are generally what the whole joint is comprised of.
42:23
Okay, so when it comes to degenerative conditions, we have a lot of success.
42:27
Okay, because number one, we're increasing the production of stem cells.
42:31
Those stem cells are proven to be anti-inflammatory.
42:34
Okay, so we have success on all of four
42:37
arthritis, the four major ones.
42:39
There's a couple of subcategories.
42:41
OA, osteoarthritis, PA, serratus arthritis, RA, rheumatoid arthritis, and gout.
42:47
And for those cases, we have a lot of luck with it.
42:51
In terms of mechanical soft tissue, not so much.
42:55
So if I have a torn labrum or torn ligament, we're really not gonna add a hell of a lot to it.
43:00
If they do a surgery, yes.
43:04
Yes.
43:05
gets it repaired with other technologies?
43:08
Yeah, and I have actually a great testimony from a neurosurgeon who I worked with who had a knee surgery and he never fully recovered and thought he'd never go skiing again.
43:18
And he, you know, he had plateaued at PT and it wasn't coming, it wasn't getting any better.
43:23
I got him on a Juvent.
43:25
He did it out of pure trust of our friendship.
43:28
And I know the guy many, many years, I've been in the OR with him many times.
43:31
I would do it just out of curiosity, but anyway.
43:34
he, you know, he just said, look, Pete, I don't believe you, but I trust you.
43:37
That makes sense.
43:38
You know, he says, and he was skiing in three months and he sent me his pictures from the ski slope.
43:44
have a nice video about it.
43:46
And similarly with a, a few pro athletes like, starting center for the Buffalo Bills.
43:53
We, in his opinion, extended his career two or three years because his surgeries were not really putting him back on the field.
44:01
And he did three, I think two seasons without missing a snap, which is not even really even done.
44:06
And he says that was.
44:08
I love this so much.
44:09
So what about cartilage?
44:10
Because there's a lot of people with, you know, torn cartilage, fractured cartilage, you know, and the ligaments and things like that inside the joints.
44:19
What you're saying is that it may not be have the same impact it does on, let's call it the bone, but does it, does it help?
44:28
it facilitate and does it also augment healing if people are doing other
44:35
Let's call it technologies to help heal that all other regenerative technologies.
44:38
I would think it might be a link in that chain, but I don't know.
44:40
You tell me.
44:42
So we see a lot of people, there's a phenomena called chondrogenesis, if anyone wants to look it up, that's chondral tissue is articular tissue like cartilage, okay?
44:53
The literature says it never, doesn't regenerate, okay?
44:58
So if you wanted that answer, that's what you'd win on a game show.
45:00
However, we see people all the time radiographically diagnosed with bone on bone knees, getting on a juv-
45:08
and kicking the can for their knee replacement surgery for months, weeks, years.
45:13
Now, I don't have a study and I don't have the images cataloged to say, yes, we have chondrogenesis.
45:19
So that would be something I can't claim.
45:22
But do those people postpone their surgery?
45:24
Absolutely, all the time.
45:27
Now, there are other stem cell therapies that will use, and we won't get into the weeds here, but they're basically injecting stem cells.
45:37
This does not, here's the thing, Juvent doesn't displace other therapies by definition.
45:44
You don't.
45:46
That's correct.
45:47
So the way I look at it is, is there some merit to those injections?
45:51
Yes, but they're not really long lasting.
45:54
And what I would, the way I try to explain it is look at that as a dental teeth cleaning and Juvent your daily brushing.
46:03
They both have the same goal, but you wouldn't want to rely on one, and every now and then, sure, you can use both.
46:09
And so if I have a really...
46:12
imagining that if, and there are some very sophisticated regeneration protocols we use now that are really quite phenomenal as standalone.
46:20
You never use one tech, actually put five or six or seven of them together to get the best results is what we found.
46:29
And I'm thinking that, and we get great results with that, but I'm thinking that if we added this to it, we'd get even better results and faster and more durable results.
46:38
That's what I'm thinking.
46:39
Yeah.
46:39
synergistic.
46:40
And at the end of the day, Juven is the most elegant stem cell treatment I can imagine.
46:46
You're the donor, you're the recipient, the body gets to decide what type of cell, where it goes, and every other thing we don't even know about.
46:54
Because trust me, here's the other thing.
46:59
Here's the other mind blowing point, Dr.
47:02
Ladin.
47:03
Here's the second most important organ system in the body, and it doesn't
47:07
have a medical specialty.
47:11
Well, I mean, you've got people that specialize in hematology and you've got people that specialize in immunology and you've got people that specialize in orthopedics and
47:22
gerontology, right?
47:23
Which are all kind of sniffing around the edges, but nobody's really pulled it all together into one.
47:29
Nobody owns the bone.
47:29
Yeah, or all of its functions, right?
47:32
And so, it's like having a heart surgeon but not a cardiologist or a brain surgeon without a neurologist.
47:38
You see my point.
47:40
And so, in that journey from the science side of the Grand Canyon to the medical side of the Grand Canyon, there's nobody even on the other side looking out for the stuff that's
47:51
coming over.
47:52
Yeah, I love it.
47:54
Yeah, I mean, you're really onto something here.
47:57
I mean, this sounds like here's, you know, I had a funny thought at one point in this conversation.
48:02
I wonder if you could put one in a couch cushion, you know, for the people that are couch potatoes.
48:07
It's like, could they actually sit there?
48:09
You know what I mean?
48:10
I mean, that's not that's not anything we would espouse to, but I'm just curious.
48:15
So.
48:16
the truth is, there's always gonna be exceptions to this, but the body was designed to take impact from the bottom up.
48:26
That's just the way, the energy transmission, there's a lot of elements to it.
48:30
And we do have people, one of my friends was a cardiologist.
48:33
He went to prison for curing people.
48:35
And it's a sad story.
48:37
Literally, we should get him on your show and you should tell his story.
48:39
It's amazing.
48:40
But he had gotten to the point where he was so beaten down
48:45
He called me said, I'm never gonna get out of bed.
48:47
I'm done.
48:49
And he's my aide.
48:54
you couldn't even believe the story.
48:56
I mean, it's literally, if they did a movie, they'd have to make it, it's unbelievable what he went through.
49:03
Okay, but he basically gave up and said, look, my bones are too weak.
49:07
I'm breaking bones.
49:08
My osteoporosis is off the charts.
49:09
He was dropped in the hospital twice.
49:11
He had fractures that weren't healing.
49:13
And he just said, I'm done.
49:15
Did you?
49:16
Yeah.
49:16
Okay.
49:17
I'm listening.
49:18
his wife is licensed, she's an MD, she's licensed in two or three disciplines.
49:23
She brought him back.
49:24
I mean, you wouldn't believe the management.
49:26
Again, that's its own topic.
49:28
But the point is he gave up.
49:29
And I told him, I said, get your damn feet on the Juvent and give me 1 % a day.
49:36
Just get on there for five seconds with your feet on it.
49:39
Next day, 10 seconds.
49:41
And it literally, he's up walking an ambulatory again and he'll tell you flat out that Juvent is what brought me from this to this.
49:47
And so those, you want to get people standing, even if it's with a walker or even a harness for, know, quadriplegic patients, you want to get them up in that action.
49:57
Now we, some people do sit on it.
49:59
There's a little bit of, you know, either way we can deal with that later, but you want to get people up and the body is amazingly tuned to take impact in that direction.
50:09
And so either way that, that's the goal.
50:12
That's what we want to try to do.
50:14
And we have some tools.
50:15
I love it.
50:15
for to do that, paraplegics and non ambulatory people to do that.
50:21
Sure, sure.
50:23
Now this is great, really great.
50:27
So I'm thinking, you know, the audience is hearing all this and if they'd like to, you know, get one of these devices or go to your website or learn more or whatever they're
50:40
going to do, learn more about Juven Health, learn more about the actual device, maybe buy one, maybe you can walk them through what the process looks like.
50:51
Sure, so our website is J-U-V-E-N-T, juvent.com.
50:58
And we really encourage people to learn, investigate.
51:02
mean, some of our users have been investigating this for months.
51:04
They finally go, my God, there's nothing bad about your company out there.
51:08
I'll try it, what the hell.
51:11
But the other thing is, it's very incumbent upon our discussion to distinguish between Juvent and these whole.
51:18
quote, whole body vibration plates that are out there.
51:21
If I go on Amazon, I could spend anywhere from $100 to $10,000 on a vibrating plate, okay?
51:29
As an engineer, I'm telling you, almost without exception, these plates are just at toxic levels of vibration.
51:38
And this is not just an opinion.
51:40
ISO has a very, they have a 45, 50 page,
51:46
paper and manual on vibration toxicity.
51:49
And I can actually show you a picture from the chart of where we are on that.
51:53
And we're right at the edge of safe.
51:55
Okay.
51:55
We're moving up and down 5 % of one millimeter.
51:59
Some of these plates are moving one, two and three inches.
52:04
And that's Newton's second law, high school physics.
52:07
That's way too much energy.
52:09
So please understand, Juven is not that shaking plates.
52:13
Those plates are well...
52:14
You know, in truth be known, the bone is probably fine.
52:17
The rest of the body just says, what the hell are you doing?
52:21
You know, and I've talked to the engineers about this and they literally on the phone go, are you going to be kidding me?
52:26
People are standing on that.
52:28
I have a career to keep people away from that.
52:31
People are standing on that.
52:33
it's, it's, the damage is not always a right away.
52:38
mean, traumatic brain injuries, they don't present at the time of occurrence.
52:44
Yet there's already been white papers published on detached retinas and cerebral damage from high energy plates.
52:50
So don't mess around.
52:51
You it's like you got to do the homework, go to our site.
52:55
We'll talk about it another day.
52:56
I'm just saying, hey, when somebody says, I got one of those shaking plates, don't get on it.
53:00
Yeah, okay, all right.
53:02
So I think that's a point well taken.
53:05
So then if people wanna actually purchase one of these things, they go to your website and then you have some sort of a code for them, I think, is that right?
53:13
Absolutely, I don't know the the code for you, but we'll have to get that You know add that to the show
53:20
the code will be in the show notes.
53:21
What I have here is the code is GLADEN.
53:24
It's go to www.juvent.com.
53:31
And that's a $500 reduction in the cost from what I see here.
53:37
So yeah, so that's very kind of you to offer that.
53:43
Well, it's been a fascinating conversation, Peter.
53:46
I really appreciate you taking the time.
53:48
to go through this.
53:52
We don't have a plate here currently, but we'll be getting one.
53:55
Yeah, and that's great.
53:56
know what, and by the way, let me explain a thing to you that will tell the rest of the audience at the same time.
54:03
Does that make sense?
54:05
So when you get a plate, we include in there what we just call the pain inventory sheet.
54:10
It's a sheet of paper with a human body on it.
54:12
Nothing fancy.
54:13
We ask everyone to just write down a circle where in their body they hurt and put a number value on it.
54:21
You're the only one that's ever gonna see it.
54:23
And every two weeks, pull that out and just start adjusting the numbers.
54:27
a vitamin is giving your body what it needs to heal.
54:33
Okay, that's a process, not an event.
54:35
And if you track it, it's amazing.
54:38
A lot of people, they'll have pain for years and go, I can't remember which arm was hurting.
54:43
It's really, I can tell you story after story, but the point is be patient, be patient, and it's six weeks.
54:49
If you don't think it's worth it, we'll buy it back.
54:52
Yeah, beautiful.
54:54
All right, well, Peter, thanks so much.
54:55
I really appreciate your passion for this area and your knowledge.
54:59
And, you know, it's your mechanical engineering background kind of fits this perfectly.
55:04
So it's quite beautiful.
55:05
And I like your new work.
55:08
a health engineer now.
55:09
I'm a mechanical engineer, but I'm actually a health engineer because I look at things differently than doctors and I admire them because you guys have a memory that I don't
55:18
have, but I have a CPU and a creativity that most doctors don't have.
55:23
So together we really form a powerful tool.
55:26
And so I love it.
55:27
I love working with you guys and it's a synergistic thing.
55:31
Yeah, well, maybe we'll figure out something to do together.
55:33
That'd be fun.
55:34
So good.
55:35
All right.
55:35
Well, sounds good.
55:36
It's been so nice to get to know you today.
55:38
Thanks so much for your interest and thoughtful questions.
55:41
I have a feeling this won't be the last time we chat.
55:47
No, it won't be.
55:48
I'll reach out to you offline for sure.
55:51
Peter, thanks so much.
55:52
All right.
55:54
Yep, cheers.