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The Full Weight of Karma · Spiritual Sense: Practical wisdom to quiet an overthinking mind and recharge your soul

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Welcome. Welcome. Today we're diving into karma, the deep philosophy of karma, how everything we do has an effect. And we're going to understand this deep law of karma that affects everything through a story which Shireen has written. And it is a very ancient story, and I'm looking forward to hearing all about it. So if you're interested in upgrading your karma and understanding karma, you're in the right place. Many blessings. Welcome, Shereen.
• 0:35
  Speaker B: Yay. Brother Michael. Life is happy.
• 0:38
  Speaker A: Yes, yes, yes. Life is good. All is well. We are very blessed.
• 0:44
  Speaker B: Very blessed. Each and every one. Every one of you who is listening is very blessed. Very blessed.
• 0:52
  Speaker A: So we're going to have a mystical story about a bandit who. Who robs people in the forest. So any travelers who are walking down through the forest, he's waiting there to rob them. And what we can learn about this and the law of karma. So how does the story go, Shireen?
• 1:11
  Speaker B: All right, so one of the things about the Ramayana, which I've been researching and writing a lot lately, is there is the story of the person who wrote it. The person who wrote it is Valmiki. He was a sage, but he didn't always start as a sage. So we are going to go into the backstory of Valmiki. So to get to the backstory of Valmiki, I need to tell you this story. So there was a bandit, and he would terrorize the people in the forest. Whoever the travelers that were walking, he would steal from them, and if they refused, he would kill them. He would do all of those things. Right, right. And that was the bandit. And one day, this traveler comes along. His name is Narada. This is important for the story. His name is Narada because he's very famous in Indian mythology. Narada. And he's playing the veena, and he's coming along. And the bandit hears the veena first. He hears him first, and he's thinking, wow, that's really beautiful music. But anyway, just for a moment, he appreciates the music. But as soon as the traveler comes playing the veena in front of the bandit, the bandit says, give me all your money first. He's surprised. He's surprised because the traveler has two things going for him. First, the traveler is not surprised to see him. And two, he doesn't have any fear from seeing the bandit. Right. And that's not his. That's like the first time it's happened where people are not afraid to see him. And he also doesn't have any fear. And he also is not surprised. He's expecting him. Almost like expecting him to be there, right? So the bandit says to Narada, the traveler, give me all of your. Give me all of your. Everything you have. It's mine. And so the traveler says to the bandit, hold on a minute. Why are you doing this? And so for a moment he thinks, just for a moment he thinks and says, okay, I'm doing it for my parents who are elderly. I'm doing it more for my wife. I'm doing it for my children. That is why I'm doing this. And then Narada asks, the traveler asks the bandit, so when the accounting of your life comes around, will they share in the accounting of you killing people, stealing from people? Will they share in that accounting? Right? And he says, yes, of course they will share in the accounting. He was so sure that his wife and his children and everyone will say yes, right? And so what he does to Narada is the traveler, he ties him to a tree because he doesn't want him going anywhere. He says, I will be back. I will go home and ask them this question and I will come back. So he goes home and he asked the question to his wife first. Will you share when the accounting of my life comes, will you share in whatever I did? And the wife says, no, I won't. Because providing for the family is your business and you need to do this. And how you do it, it's up to you, but I'm not going to do it.
• 5:05
  Speaker A: You.
• 5:05
  Speaker B: And he's shocked, right? Like he's totally shocked. The ground underneath his feet is giving way. And then he goes to his children. Children, not helpful either. They're like, no, right? Then he goes to his parents who are elderly. And the parents says, no, we won't share. And then it's like almost like there's a story he built up in his head about why he's doing the justifications in his head for why he's doing. And the scaffolding and the load bearing, right? Not even just the scaffolding. The load bearing wall of a building or a room just fell. And he's like totally crushed. And so he comes back to Narada, he unties the traveler. He unties the traveler and he says, I want to change. And so Narada, the traveler looks at him very intently, gives him drishti, you know, loving Drishti. Loving vision. He gives him drishti. And he says, okay, I want you to repeat these words. And the words are, mara, Mara, M A R A. M A R A. And I just want you to keep repeating Keep repeating, keep repeating. And actually what happens is that when you say Mara, Maramarama, Ra enough times, then it reverses to Rama, Rama, Rama, Rama, right? And so. And from where he was, right, he couldn't come to saying a sacred sound. So from wherever he is, Narada tells him, you just. You repeat these words. That's it. So he goes into the forest, he sits down, and he sits and does deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, Tapasya. And he. And an anthill grows around him like season after season. He's just doing deep, you know, deep meditation, intense meditation is going on. And then while the anthill is growing around him, things are incinerating inside, right? Not just he's making amends, just completely incinerating inside. And when he's incinerated, it's almost like the earth and the anthill becomes this womb that he's born out of, and the sage Valmiki is born out of that anthill. So his previous story was Ratnakar, name was Ratnakar, and he becomes Valmiki. And Valmika in Sanskrit means anthill because he was born out of an anthill. And when I think about this story, right? And he does many other things. But for now, when I think about this story, I think it's not like Narada was trying to expose his wife or his parents or his children. Nrada was really telling Valmiki about the importance of karma, that whatever you do as a human being, you will have to bear the consequences of it. It's not someone else. And it's not like it, like, not logical, like legal, but just. The universal law of karma is whatever you do, you have to reap it, good or bad.
• 8:58
  Speaker A: That's very interesting that I think everyone can relate to justification of certain things. Oh, you know, I'm doing this for these reasons. This is all right. Other people, it doesn't matter. But at the end of the day, whatever we do, we're personally responsible for. And we can't, you know, enlist other people in our karma as justification. That's a very, very deep thing. I think this happens on many, many levels. And it's a bit complicated, though, isn't it, when. When we're living with other people or if we're living in a society and certain things are happening and we kind of get used to it, but we're still individually responsible for our karma, regardless of what's going on with anyone else. And, yeah, what a shock. Yeah. To realize whatever I do, I get the return of it personally. And it's nothing to do with anyone else at all. You know, even if you're like living with, literally living with someone else and you think we're doing all these things together, we still get separate karma for whatever it is you're doing or don't, whether you do it or you don't do it. And it's, it applies to all levels of our life, doesn't it? What we think has is karma, what we speak is karma, what we do is karma. And it all adds up. I think most people don't think about this at all. In fact, a lot of people, they don't like the idea of karma because. Because it's easier to think it doesn't make any difference what you do at all. You know, even some spiritual teachings seem to disassociate themselves from the law of karma actually as some sort of enlightened idea that there's no such thing as karma.
• 10:49
  Speaker B: No, it's in every religion it is stated in some form, right? And in Buddhism it's stated outright, right? Good actions. In Hinduism it's stated outright. But in Christianity, right, Whatever you so so shall you reap. Right? That's the golden rule. That is karma. Yeah, right. The golden rule is karma, right. It didn't say what you, whatever you saw, 100 other people will read.
• 11:19
  Speaker A: No, no, no, no. This, it's. I mean, it's kind of self evident really if you think about it. Like, for example, if I don't get enough sleep and I stay up all night, I'll have sleep problem. I mean, I'll have, I won't be able to think properly. If I have 20 cups of espresso, it's going to have an effect on me, isn't it? It's not going to have an effect on the neighbors. Do you know what I mean? Like, If I drink 100 espressos before the podcast, which I don't do by the way, but if I need two, I'm going to be the one.
• 11:48
  Speaker B: Are you drinking how many espresso? That's a lot.
• 11:51
  Speaker A: I haven't had any aspirations. I can't handle espresso anymore. I know just two espressos would be enough. One espresso would be too much. But, but do you know, I mean, so like it's pretty obvious, like if, if I have espresso, it affects me. It doesn't affect Shereen directly, you know, like if I don't do any work, I'm the one who is gonna have to deal with that, you know, I mean, it's, it's it's kind of self evident, isn't it? If, if you do some good stuff and you, you know, put it out in the world, sooner or later you're gonna get some result of it. If you don't do anything, nothing happens. So it's, it's pretty basic. What goes around comes around. What we do has an effect. It's hard to think, it's hard to really think it through long term, you know, that's the issue. We can see it when we think about it. But to actually think, what am I doing now? What is the consequence of that? What's the long term consequence? To actually think about the three aspects of time does require a certain amount of, of spaciousness and sanity to actually tune into the bigger picture.
• 12:56
  Speaker B: Right? You can say that again. You need spaciousness. People are busy scrolling where are they thinking about karma? So one of the things I feel that is so important to understand is the law of karma is absolute. And there are some universal laws of karma. Like one of the things she was saying is whatever is used so so shall you reap, right? Especially an action that you are doing, the magnitude and the how much you have done will come back to you in the same proportion, good or bad, and it'll just wait for the consequences to build up to the right magnitude, you know. So if you're wondering why people do all these horrible things and nothing happens to them, it's just waiting, you know, the fat lady hasn't sung yet. The, one of the things I feel is. So let's say there's some. Karma is universal, right? So there's some laws in the United States which are not necessarily true, let's say in Saudi Arabia. And there are some laws in Saudi Arabia which are not necessarily true in the United States, right? So those laws are contingent and specific to the nation. Every nation has their own laws and you be legal in the nation and stuff. But above all of the nations, above everything else that's going on, they are some universal laws that apply. Whichever nation you're in, even if you are in uncontacted tribe in Amazon or you know, in the Indian Ocean, these laws of karma apply.
• 14:55
  Speaker A: And that's why like for example, people who do terrible things, often they can't sleep, right? Which you say, well, you know, that's not a big deal, but they're suffering from it. Even if they haven't been caught from or something, you know. Oh, they can't.
• 15:09
  Speaker B: No, no, no, I think sleep is a big deal. I think sleep is a big deal.
• 15:13
  Speaker A: You know, so if somebody is. If someone does a bunch of bad stuff and they didn't go to jail for it for whatever reason because they didn't get caught, they can be in personal hell suffering like they would be suffering if they were in jail without being in jail and that. So it's being paid off in. Even if they, if, even if the law doesn't catch somebody, it happens. But then of course, there's the positive side. Recently I got a check in the post from something that I set up, some audios that, that I was sharing on a platform and I forgot about it completely and, and they just sent me a check. It wasn't very much, but it made me realize that because I did something and I pressed a bunch of buttons and I created something and people liked it, I got paid, right? And if I'd done. And I haven't even had anything to do with this particular account for years and years and years, and I realized if I'd done more button pressing, I would have got a bigger check. Do you see what I mean? So I only got the karma proportionate to how many buttons I pressed. Do you know? I mean like that if I press more buttons, there would be a bigger check. So it's, it sits like this is how it works in the modern world. It's like this is a universal law that applies to any, any time period. But right now, what, what are we saying? What are we doing? What are we thinking? Where are we spending our time? What's the effect of that? It all adds up. And, and not only does it affect our. What comes back to us, it also affects what we think and what we do. So we create habits through our karma, don't we?
• 16:52
  Speaker B: Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, there's something else I want to share about karma. People think karma is just action or they say intention or all of that, Right. I feel there are gradations in karma. There's the actual action itself, then there is enabling of an action, and then there is the intention behind the action. There are three grades. And so let's take an action. Let's take someone on the, on the. Someone I know, right? Someone I know killed someone, right? That's the action itself. That's like the maximum karma, going and killing someone. But let's say I enabled this person by giving money and overlooking the fact that he had a drug problem and this and that and that and that, right? So what did I do? Let's say he's my friend and I've totally enabled bad behavior or my child And I've totally enabled bad behavior. So I'm an enabler, Right. And because I'm an enabler, there is a certain accounting on my part too because I'm an enabler. And then the intention, the intention. So my intention, giving money, let's say to my child who went and killed someone, my intention was I love the child, I love whatever. I love doing these things for him and you know, love giving him money and all of that. Even though my intentions were pure. Because that's a pure intention. Even though my intentions were pure. Enabling is more important and the karma itself is more important. Intentions have very little thing to do with karma because people think, oh, my intentions were good, so I'm going to get off the hook. No, you don't get off the hook because if you're enabling bad behavior, then whatever the behavior is, you're going to get a portion of it. Intentions have nothing to do with it. You know what they say, road to hell is paved with good intentions. That's what it means. You keep having good intentions and you keep enabling. Keep having good intentions and you keep enabling and you're paving the road to hell.
• 19:23
  Speaker A: Yeah. So karma is about outcomes. You know, what's the, what's the actual consequence of something? Not just, you know, how I, I meant well, I meant well. So we have to look at, look at this, you know, honestly and clear headed and just see what, what's actually going on here. It's not always obvious. And I think the problem with the modern world is that it's very, very easy to get into a hypnotic trance. I actually think pretty much everyone is in a permanent hypnotic trance. I've written a book about this called Entranced, but I actually feel it's pretty much permanent trance.
• 20:05
  Speaker B: I don't think I am.
• 20:06
  Speaker A: In the modern world there's different kinds of chances. Maybe you're doing better than most people are. But it's, it's like if we are. Let me put it another way. My, from my own personal experience, if I go completely offline for like let's say a day or two days, right. And I get plenty of sleep and I'm doing meditation and taking my time, I wake up in the morning and I feel like I can see clearly and I can think clearly and I can listen to my conscience and I know what's going on and I feel like I've come out of a trance.
• 20:39
  Speaker B: You're right though, right, about going offline. It does feel like you're coming out of a trance.
• 20:46
  Speaker A: Yeah. But then if I go back into it and I'm working with AI and I'm working on all these projects and there's all this stuff and it's spinning around and I'm dealing with all these messages and all this stuff and rah, rah. It's it. When I say trance, it's like a certain brain state of just flowing with things. And to really understand what we're dealing with and understand ourselves, we need a significant amount of silence. Which is why in the past, like in these stories, he spent I don't know how many days or weeks or months sitting under a tree doing deep meditation, right? He wasn't doing a little bit of meditation and then checking his phone, right?
• 21:28
  Speaker B: I.
• 21:30
  Speaker A: He was sitting there because he's coming out of. So we need a certain amount of. Of time to actually even think about things properly. You know, what is my karma? What's going on? Is it worth doing, even ask? I mean, I've actually set up a system with my AI to, to force me into not being in a trance, to like, why are you doing this? Is it worth doing? Is it the best use of your time right now? Could you be doing something else? What's the idea for find the project? Like, what's the brief? Is it. Do it, like, have it forced me to ask questions to myself so that I don't just go, what about this thing here? Blah, blah, blah. Because it's too easy to just take action and do karmic things without thinking it through properly. So if we can stop and say, okay, what's the historical experience I have with this situation? Where am I at now? What's the likely outcome? What's the likely short term, long term and future outcome of this? And is it still worth doing after considering these sorts of things? To even think about that takes energy and time, doesn't it? And it's hard to do if I'm in the middle of stuff going, oh, what do I need to do now?
• 22:45
  Speaker B: I was thinking to drive home the point about intention, right? Because people really think, oh, intention. That's what the modern world is trying to tell you. Your intentions were good. That's not true. Intention is not everything. Now drive home this point by another example. Let's say a friend of mine is in the hospital and he's in the hospital. Or she's in the hospital, she's in the hospital because they have a liver problem from drinking too much, right? Excessive alcoholism in the hospital, right? Liver problem. And you go to meet the person and you want to be there Support the person, all of that. Wonderful, right? Tell them it's okay, soothe them, make sure they're okay, give them a meditation, do a meditation with them, make sure they're in the right path. All of that, that's great, right? That's what you need to be doing. But let's say if the friend calls you and says, oh, I am really craving a drink right now, can you get me some vodka? And if you do take that vodka, even though your intentions were good, even though you loved your friend and you wanted your friend to really do good because. But you loved her so much, you were going to take her of Arka, what's going to happen, You've enabled very bad consequences in the soul. And so that. So because it is such an obvious example, now you see why intention is not okay. Not enough. Enabling is everything. So the karma itself is. Yes, you need to get on with. The karma itself is very bad and you shouldn't do it. The friend who's ever drinking should stop doing it. But you are also helping along.
• 24:54
  Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. I want to make this person feel better. I don't want to upset somebody. That's the cause of all kinds of stuff happening, isn't it? I don't want people to be upset. It's an interesting one actually, about people getting upset. Because if you ask someone outright, do you want to know the truth or do you want to just pander to your ego? Right? What do you want? Most people, if you actually said that to them, they say, just give me the truth, right? I have to do this with AI all the time. Stop lying to me, stop pandering to my ego. Tell me the truth. Because otherwise it just, you know, because this is how the mind is designed. And so if you say someone, do you want the truth? They'll probably say, yes most of the time, right? But we don't normally ask that question because it. Because it's too direct. So we think, well, let me just say it in this other way, or let me not do this thing because of blah, blah, blah. And then all kinds of stuff carries on for long periods of time. Because karma actually dealing with situations properly requires courage and it requires clarity. And it's a lot easier just to sort of weave around things and try and avoid them, you know? And I suppose the other thing is like, how much do you get involved with other people's karma at all as well, isn't it? Because it's an interesting topic about if. How much should we be. If someone's doing something, how much should we try and save them from it. Because that can be another problem potentially as well, can't it?
• 26:33
  Speaker B: You know, recently someone was talking to me about this, right? They were saying they're in a season of getting over saving people that, you know, they were fixing, fixing, fixing. And I've noticed that. How much of that fixing is for you and how much that fixed fixing is for the other person, right? You're doing it for yourself because you have some weird need to fix people. It's nothing to do with, oh, you're helping the other person. And so I think we don't look at things honestly and most of the time, right, fixing not a good idea. Because pretty much everyone's an adult and they need to figure things out. And if you're trying to fix and you're trying to save, it's because you have a need somewhere inside that's unfulfilled, that needs to get fixed and that needs to feel valued and seen and recognized and all of that stuff. That's why you're doing it. Am I being harsh?
• 27:41
  Speaker A: It's one of those things. I think it's like, we can, we can. We can ask someone, would you like any help or advice or whatever it is, or. And, and if they say yes, they would. Then I think, you know, if someone was looking for help, that's one thing. But if we're volunteering our opinion about how everyone should change without them actually being interested, it doesn't tend to work out very well, does it? Because, I mean, what I've noticed is it's much harder for me to change myself than it is to tell everyone else what they should be doing.
• 28:21
  Speaker B: That is also true, right? That is also true. Maybe that's why I'm trying to fix people is because I don't want to fix myself, right? It's easy to fix someone else. It's more work.
• 28:32
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 28:32
  Speaker B: It's so easy to see, oh, yeah, you need to do this and change this.
• 28:36
  Speaker A: Well, what are you just. I mean, it's like, I talk to people all the time and they say, like, why don't you just like, do this one thing and everything will get better? And they're like, oh, no, no, but I can't. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But if someone says that to me, I have the same response. Oh, but you don't understand my situation.
• 28:50
  Speaker B: You do have the same response.
• 28:54
  Speaker A: I know I do. Exactly. Oh, but blah, blah, blah. So there's always. We have like a long list of reasons why we can't do certain things in Our head, but to everyone else is pretty obvious. Like, why don't you just stop doing that thing or just do this other thing and everything will be great, you know? But there's a whole system of complicated stuff going on here that doesn't make sense to us internally, right?
• 29:15
  Speaker B: I wanted to mention something here. You were talking about people. Who do we say and who do we not say, right? So let's say you have friends and you know, and you have a certain kind of friendship, then. Sure. I mean, that's something you have to decide, right? Am I saying it to. Or am I saying it to hold a mirror? That's something you have to decide, right? I'm not saying everyone is holding a mirror, is trying to fix people. I'm not saying that. And we should be good friends for each other so that we can hold a mirror properly. But the other thing I want to say in the story, when we began, right? In the story, the Lord bearing wall in his life, the thing that he was telling himself is, I am doing this for my parents, I'm doing this for my wife, I'm doing this for my family, I'm doing this for my kids. That thing he's telling himself that collapsed and that collapsed. And if you think about the story, right, Narada the traveler really asked the most precise, precise question ever because no one asked him that question. And all, you know, kudos to Ratnakar, the highwayman, the bandit, that he was able to look at it because he did not give himself space in his life to look at these things, right? How many of us are giving ourselves space in our lives to look at these questions? What are the questions? What are the stories am I telling myself? And what are the justifications I'm giving inside? And what are these lord bearing stories in my life, right? Every story I tell myself, for every karma I do, every action. Karma is nothing but the word action. So every karma I do or every story I tell myself is because of I do a karma, right? I perform an action and then I tell myself a story. It could be anything. Let's say I'm writing the Ramayana. I'm just not. I mean, I write like 12 hours a day, right? So to be able to write 12 hours a day, there's a story I'm telling myself inside, why I'm doing it. And if that story doesn't have enough weight, if it doesn't have enough reason and the right reason and the pure reasons, right? Good reasons, then I'm wasting 12 hours of my day.
• 32:07
  Speaker A: Yeah. So that's why we have to sit in silence and really be willing to face the truth, which is normally not what we like. It's. It's often different from what we expected it to be. And these stories, they go back a long way. We have to. So stress test when I'm talking to AI, because I spend a lot of time talking to AI nowadays I say stress test it, stress test it. Stress, stress. I have to do that to myself. You know, is this a good idea? Is it worth doing? Does it make any sense? What's the consequence of this? And one thing that I've. I realized I personally need to do more of is just. It's just sit down and do nothing and just assess my life. Because meditations are actions, a practice, right? And then working is a practice and going for a walk is a practice. So they're all like activities that. But I think the missing thing in the modern world is just sitting down and doing nothing at all. To just let things percolate and let things to sort of allow themselves to come up. Because I can't see what's going on if my life is back to back to back to back to back with things. And there's none of this space. Because in the past, like in, in the Ramayana, at different times, people had chunks of their day where they were sort of daydreaming a little bit or they were kind of working on something. They didn't have to think very much about it. There was this more spacious existence, generally speaking, than it is now, because we have constant distractions and, and really powerful technologies day in, day out. So just to sit there. So that's why I did this the other day. I was just sitting there looking at my whiteboard and going, like, what's actually going on here? Like, how are things actually working out? How is the month progressing? Like, just. Just to tune into it all. Because we can't change our karma if we don't know what it is. And we're not going to know what it is if we don't just sit in silence without any, any agenda. And meditation doesn't count. Meditation is a practice, so it has to be separate from meditation. Just to sit and tune into it and then think and to take the time to think it through. So I. I'm finding using AI is actually helping me with my life. Because anytime I work on a project, I've forced myself to have a brief. What's the purpose? How long is it going to take? When's it going to be finished? What's the outcome? Who is it for? Is it better than something else? I have a list of questions like this and, and if I can't answer all those questions, is it worth doing at all? But normally these things just randomly happen. Like most of I feel like I'm quite an impulsive person that just like I want to do this thing and I'm just like so to sit back and, and to say hang on a minute, just calm down. Is this worth doing at all? That this is in in the the Raj yoga teachings there's a term be trikal Darshi. One who has three time visions. Past, present, future vision. That's easier said than done. Just to have three time vision before doing anything. But I feel that's really the secret to, to really changing our life is to think about this properly and to take the time for it. And I personally feel like I need at least an hour a day just to sit down. I don't normally do it honestly, but I'm attempting to do more and more of it so I can actually have sanity and not be in a trance and not be impulsive. Otherwise I'm just going to carry on creating same karma again and again and again. So it's a big topic.
• 35:57
  Speaker B: It is a big.
• 35:57
  Speaker A: We're living inside our karma.
• 35:59
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 36:00
  Speaker A: And, and people feel this is karma. Yes, here it is.
• 36:04
  Speaker B: And people feel because they don't see bad people having consequences that it doesn't work. Maybe it's not happening. You just have to wait. It is going to happen. But anyway, what people, what other people are experiencing should not be my problem.
• 36:24
  Speaker A: No, we're not waiting around for bad people to get hit by karma. We just need to change our life in. So we're doing good karma. So the main thing is consider ourselves to be souls. That's the first karma, best karma. And then remember God, that's good karma. And then be of service to others without causing any problems while we're doing it. If we can do that. Two thumbs up. All right, so what blessing do we have today?
• 36:55
  Speaker B: Truth.
• 36:59
  Speaker A: Truth. Well, there it is.
• 37:00
  Speaker B: This is God's blessing for you. Truth. At last you have found your true self, embracing the stillness it brings. Beyond the allure of false promises, a deeper inner bond awaits. One with timeless truths. You have begun your journey into divinity unclouded by outside distractions.
• 37:38
  Speaker A: There it is. So take the time to get clear on what is going on beyond all the distractions. Thank you for your presence. Thank you, Shereen. Blessings to you. Blessings to everyone. And we'll talk to you in the next episode. Yay.