Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / Halloween Week: The Pendle Witch Trials

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Halloween Week: The Pendle Witch Trials · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

0:30
Speaker 1: Welcome to the fifth day of Halloween week.
0:34
Speaker 2: After today, there.
0:36
Speaker 1: Are two more to go. My name is Jacko, and
0:41
Speaker 1: over the years I have had the immense pleasure of
0:44
Speaker 1: being your master of ceremonies along the way, and I
0:48
Speaker 1: do hope you've enjoyed all the terrifying tales. But today
0:55
Speaker 1: things will take an even darker turn as we travel
0:59
Speaker 1: into the sixteen hundreds to discuss the ever so famous
1:06
Speaker 1: Pendle Witch Trials. So let's get into it, shall we.
1:14
Speaker 1: Here are your hosts of Wikied and Grim to present
1:18
Speaker 1: the fifth day of Halloween Week, Ben and Nicole.
1:26
Speaker 2: He's right, we're getting into the Pendle Witch Trials today.
1:29
Speaker 3: Hmmm. Oh man, I'm excited for this.
1:32
Speaker 2: Have you heard of this specific witch trial.
1:36
Speaker 3: I can't say that I have now because.
1:37
Speaker 2: We all know like the witch trials and like kind
1:39
Speaker 2: of what happened and everything. Yeah, and this one, I mean,
1:43
Speaker 2: it's it's pretty much exactly what you expect, but there's
1:46
Speaker 2: a few details surrounding it that's just like, oh man,
1:49
Speaker 2: if only that didn't happen, then everyone would have been
1:52
Speaker 2: fine sort of thing.
1:53
Speaker 3: Oh, one of those it's.
1:55
Speaker 2: Just like a domino effect that just like it kept
1:58
Speaker 2: going like bigger and bigger. Domine was falling and it's like,
2:00
Speaker 2: holy shit, yeah, the straw that broke the camel's back.
2:04
Speaker 3: Kind of thing. Hmm, okay, there you go.
2:07
Speaker 2: Yeah. So yeah, I hope everyone out there is enjoying
2:12
Speaker 2: their Halloween festivities. I saw a post today, well yesterday,
2:17
Speaker 2: but I digress. It was can we all just agree
2:21
Speaker 2: that there's two Halloween weekends this year? Oh okay, because
2:26
Speaker 2: Halloween like falls in the middle of the week, so
2:28
Speaker 2: it's like the weekend before and the weekend after.
2:32
Speaker 3: Yeah, what is it? It's on a Thursday, actual Halloween.
2:36
Speaker 2: So now you go to check a calendar just be sure. Yeah, Thursday.
2:39
Speaker 3: But I feel like once Thursday hits, is it really
2:41
Speaker 3: going to carry on into the weekend?
2:43
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, okay, definitely. I've seen parties scheduled, like not
2:47
Speaker 2: even just like friends and stuff parties, but like actual events.
2:51
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, okay, huh yeah that is cool.
2:54
Speaker 2: Though I think Halloween should be three weeks. I think
2:57
Speaker 2: just the whole month of October could just be Halloween.
3:00
Speaker 3: Well, I think for a lot of people it is
3:02
Speaker 3: the full month of October.
3:03
Speaker 2: Though, touche touche it is, But for many it's not
3:08
Speaker 2: for many their Christmas shoppings. You know.
3:11
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, we've talked about that already. I think we
3:14
Speaker 3: have we have Day in your Lane Christmas exactly.
3:17
Speaker 2: But we're here to talk about some witch trials today,
3:21
Speaker 2: not Christmas. So are you ready for this?
3:24
Speaker 3: I am. I'm going to be very interested in this one.
3:26
Speaker 2: Well, Buckley, you's seatbelt because here we go. Okay. So,
3:33
Speaker 2: in the early seventeenth century, England was gripped by an
3:36
Speaker 2: extremely massive fear of witchcraft, an anxiety that basically built
3:41
Speaker 2: into a series of these infamous witch trials all across
3:45
Speaker 2: the country. Among the most notorious were the Pendle witch
3:49
Speaker 2: Trials of sixteen twelve, which unfolded in the remote rural
3:52
Speaker 2: landscape of Lancashire. This was driven by the superstition, social
3:56
Speaker 2: tension and harsh legal system at the time, and the
3:59
Speaker 2: trials resulted in the execution of ten individuals.
4:04
Speaker 3: Yeah wow, yeah.
4:07
Speaker 2: So it was back up, just ever so slightly before
4:09
Speaker 2: we get into the actual year of these events. It's
4:12
Speaker 2: the early sixteen hundreds in England and it's following the
4:16
Speaker 2: Elizabeth era and the ascension of King James. The first
4:19
Speaker 2: brought a really heightened fear of witchcraft into England. He's
4:23
Speaker 2: a new monarch, and he had a notorious fascination with
4:26
Speaker 2: the occult, which I honestly can't blame him. It is
4:30
Speaker 2: fascinating to all help. But I think for him it
4:33
Speaker 2: was more so like a fear of the occult along
4:36
Speaker 2: with the fascination, so he was really diving into it,
4:39
Speaker 2: and he was also like fearful of what it could do.
4:42
Speaker 3: Like almost maybe an unhealthy obsession too.
4:45
Speaker 2: Definitely, Yeah, even like a strong superstition where it's like
4:49
Speaker 2: because people are like, don't walk under ladders, don't like
4:51
Speaker 2: black cat cross your path, people who are superstitious. There,
4:54
Speaker 2: it's almost like a borderline fear of it an obsession
4:57
Speaker 2: with him, like you say, so, that's definitely kind of
5:00
Speaker 2: where he was.
5:01
Speaker 3: So I keep opening umbrellas in the studio to dry
5:04
Speaker 3: them out, which I'm thinking, maybe I need to stop
5:07
Speaker 3: doing that because my luck's been shit lately.
5:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, your photography studio is just going to be cursed now, wow,
5:12
Speaker 2: good job. But James himself had actually even wrote a
5:15
Speaker 2: book called Demonology in fifteen ninety seven that expressed his
5:20
Speaker 2: personal views on the dangers of witches and outlined methods
5:23
Speaker 2: for identifying them and prosecuting them. His writings would amplify
5:28
Speaker 2: already existing superstitions among civilians, turning what was once just
5:32
Speaker 2: kind of a local fear into like a malevolent, terrorizing
5:37
Speaker 2: kind of blanket across the nation.
5:40
Speaker 3: Which isn't good because I mean, how is this like
5:44
Speaker 3: was his writings and stuff all backed up, you know?
5:47
Speaker 2: And oh definitely not.
5:48
Speaker 3: No, No, that's not good.
5:50
Speaker 2: No, it definitely no. It's just basically him like making
5:52
Speaker 2: stuff up talking to a priest all that priest said this,
5:55
Speaker 2: Oh you know what I saw someone who said this,
5:57
Speaker 2: and just making shit up as he goes.
5:58
Speaker 3: Oh dang.
6:00
Speaker 2: I'm sure some of it has some facts behind it.
6:03
Speaker 2: You know, there's actual like because there is quote unquote
6:06
Speaker 2: like witchcraft out there right There's there's charms or protecting
6:09
Speaker 2: spells are like you know, burning stage or you can
6:11
Speaker 2: do sater those sorts of things like in that those
6:14
Speaker 2: are rooted very much so in culture. So those are
6:18
Speaker 2: factual things what they actually do. I mean, science and
6:22
Speaker 2: history can debate, but I'm sure there's some of that
6:26
Speaker 2: in the book, but he's probably like if you see
6:29
Speaker 2: a woman and she can do math, which.
6:32
Speaker 3: Like you know what I mean, as an example. Yeah, yeah, gosh,
6:36
Speaker 3: so so just like fearing everybody out there.
6:40
Speaker 2: Hey, pretty much. Now, I do want to put air
6:42
Speaker 2: quotes around around what I said. I've not read his books,
6:46
Speaker 2: I do not intend to read his books, but I
6:48
Speaker 2: can imagine that's along the lines of what it would contain. Yeah.
6:52
Speaker 2: So there was a religious reform movement that was called
6:54
Speaker 2: the Protestant Reformation. It was still influencing daily life at
6:59
Speaker 2: this time, and as religious leaders denounce practices they saw
7:04
Speaker 2: like as pagan basically, the rift between Catholicism and Protestantism
7:11
Speaker 2: basically just continued, having just these tears between society essentially,
7:16
Speaker 2: and this allowed accusations of witchcraft to serve as a
7:19
Speaker 2: convenient way to target specific individuals, which, unfortunately were particularly
7:24
Speaker 2: those who were socially marginalized, often poor, elderly, and those
7:28
Speaker 2: otherwise vulnerable.
7:30
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, oh no, I don't like this at all.
7:36
Speaker 2: So the small rural communities near Pendle Heel Hill in
7:39
Speaker 2: Lancashire were particularly susceptible to the power of superstition at
7:44
Speaker 2: the time. So these communities were largely poor and very isolated,
7:48
Speaker 2: with residents relying traditionally on folk magic and herbal remedies
7:52
Speaker 2: to survive. It's literally their way of life because they
7:56
Speaker 2: don't have access to the bigger cities where I mean
7:58
Speaker 2: it is the sixteen hundreds. I'm gonna put doctors in quotes.
8:02
Speaker 2: But they just have themselves, the herbs that grow around here,
8:05
Speaker 2: and just what's been carried on through the ages. Right,
8:09
Speaker 2: So these sort of practices were often misunderstood and views
8:12
Speaker 2: as evidence of wicked influences.
8:15
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness.
8:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, these people are just living their life, trying to
8:19
Speaker 2: survive and do what they need to do.
8:20
Speaker 3: And it's like hmmm, and then some person is putting
8:24
Speaker 3: like making it have a watchful eye on them. Basically
8:28
Speaker 3: just definitely.
8:29
Speaker 2: Now there's a little bit more to it than that
8:31
Speaker 2: when we get into the actual story, but we're we're
8:33
Speaker 2: getting there, so don't you worry now. At the time,
8:36
Speaker 2: Lancashire was one of England's poor and more isolated areas,
8:39
Speaker 2: as I said, with few opportunities for work and advancement,
8:43
Speaker 2: with limited access to doctors formal education, people in the
8:46
Speaker 2: area just had these, like I said, things passed down.
8:49
Speaker 2: These customs were often often included charms, herbal mixtures, practicing
8:55
Speaker 2: rituals to guard against illness or bad luck and natural disasters,
8:59
Speaker 2: even but outsiders increasingly saw these practices as superstitious and
9:04
Speaker 2: suspicious and dangerous. Now Nestled within Lancashire's landscape was Pendall Hill.
9:09
Speaker 2: It was known for its eerie shrouded slopes with expansive
9:13
Speaker 2: views and like gorgeous landscape. Honestly, the hill itself has
9:16
Speaker 2: long held a sort of mystical allure around it, and
9:19
Speaker 2: early seventeenth century Pendall Hill and its surrounding villages were small.
9:23
Speaker 2: They were tight knit communities where everyone kind of knew
9:25
Speaker 2: each other's business sort of thing. And of course, in
9:29
Speaker 2: Pendall Hill and these villages, the belief in witchcraft was
9:33
Speaker 2: a normal part of life for them because, as I mentioned,
9:36
Speaker 2: that's how they survived with these remedies, with these you know,
9:40
Speaker 2: it seems like there's a storm on the wind, or
9:43
Speaker 2: maybe we're on a drought, we need crops, these sort
9:45
Speaker 2: of things, and they put out these charms or these
9:47
Speaker 2: things out into the universe, and this witchcraft, if you will,
9:50
Speaker 2: to kind of protect them and keep these things alive.
9:53
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, gosh, that couldn't hurt, right, That's what
9:56
Speaker 3: they believed in.
9:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, well not only that they just made sense of
9:59
Speaker 2: their surrounding because they're so isolated, right, so they just
10:02
Speaker 2: did what they had, what God gave them sort of things,
10:06
Speaker 2: ye say, right exactly. It became like this area of
10:09
Speaker 2: Pendle Hill became a very symbolic area. It became a
10:13
Speaker 2: symbol of conflict between traditional rural beliefs and growing influences
10:16
Speaker 2: of authorities who wanted to control or punish those who
10:19
Speaker 2: didn't conform. So you have the old ways that are
10:23
Speaker 2: very rooted here still and the new ways trying to
10:26
Speaker 2: come in. And it became like that, that balancing point,
10:29
Speaker 2: that final stand almost at the heart of Pendell the
10:35
Speaker 2: Pendal Witch trial, Sorry, were two families, the Demdikes and
10:39
Speaker 2: the Chathokses. There was quite a rivalry and suspicion and
10:45
Speaker 2: superstition between these two families. So the matriarchs, Elizabeth Southern's
10:49
Speaker 2: Old Demdike and Ann Wittle Old chat Talks, were both
10:53
Speaker 2: respected as wise women who practice folk magic. They had
10:57
Speaker 2: reputations for using charms and irmal remedy skills that were
11:01
Speaker 2: sought out by locals when they needed them. Right, but
11:04
Speaker 2: at the time when folk practice were increasingly labeled as
11:07
Speaker 2: dangerous or witchcraft. These abilities put them under intense scrutiny.
11:11
Speaker 2: So old Demdike then in her eighties, which in the
11:15
Speaker 2: sixteen hundred, it's like.
11:16
Speaker 3: Yeah, dang, that's like a good life, like good.
11:19
Speaker 2: Long life, no kidding, which I can only imagine would
11:22
Speaker 2: fuel her being a witch sort of thing, not even
11:26
Speaker 2: like in a negative way, but like before they're under
11:29
Speaker 2: the microscope. Think of like the locals and everything who
11:31
Speaker 2: were seeking out someone to do a good luck charm
11:33
Speaker 2: or something. Yeah, talk to the eighty year old witch
11:35
Speaker 2: up the fucking hill, right, you know what I mean?
11:39
Speaker 2: But she had a long standing reputation in Pendle for
11:41
Speaker 2: her knowledge of charms and curses as well. Her daughter
11:44
Speaker 2: Elizabeth Device and her granddaughter Alison Device were believed to
11:48
Speaker 2: carry out her practices inheriting both her knowledge and the
11:51
Speaker 2: stigma that came along with it. Now the chat Talks
11:54
Speaker 2: is meanwhile, we're often seen as rivals with old chat
11:58
Speaker 2: Talks as recognized for her super supernatural abilities. The family
12:02
Speaker 2: had been at odds for years back and forth between
12:04
Speaker 2: these two right, with accusations of theft, jealousy, and occasional
12:08
Speaker 2: curses keeping tensions extremely high. These conflicts would reach a
12:14
Speaker 2: breaking point when Alison Device, one of the Demdike's, allegedly
12:18
Speaker 2: cursed a peddler. So, as the story goes in March
12:23
Speaker 2: nine of sixteen sorry, I used to going back this
12:26
Speaker 2: far in time. Sixteen twelve, Alison Device, the granddaughter of
12:30
Speaker 2: Old Demdike, crossed paths with a local peddler named John
12:34
Speaker 2: Law along a road in column now, Alison, impoverished and desperate,
12:39
Speaker 2: she asked John for a few pins, was a small
12:42
Speaker 2: but valuable item which is often associated with folk magic
12:45
Speaker 2: and used in healing. He, however, refused to give them
12:49
Speaker 2: to her. She, in frustration, allegedly cursed him, and shortly thereafter, John,
12:58
Speaker 2: while still on the road, was struck by something and
13:02
Speaker 2: collapsed with a sudden paralysis on the side of his body.
13:05
Speaker 3: Oh man, okay.
13:07
Speaker 2: Now, in hindsight with modern medicine, paralysis in the side
13:11
Speaker 2: of the body sounds.
13:12
Speaker 3: Much like a stroke. Yeah.
13:14
Speaker 2: But even still, whether it's a stroke or something that
13:16
Speaker 2: we can explain away today doesn't mean it's not influenced
13:19
Speaker 2: by a curse. Right, She could have forced that stroke
13:21
Speaker 2: upon him.
13:22
Speaker 3: If this magic is real, well yeah, and then I feel,
13:25
Speaker 3: I mean, like so many of them back then, believed
13:27
Speaker 3: in this right so exactly.
13:30
Speaker 2: So news of John's mysterious affliction quickly spread across Pendel Hill.
13:36
Speaker 2: It also spread much farther as well, which fueled suspicions
13:39
Speaker 2: of witchcraft in the area and put a target on
13:42
Speaker 2: these people. Alison was eventually confronted by local authorities. Oh yeah,
13:47
Speaker 2: and she reportedly confessed to cursing John under intense scrutiny
13:53
Speaker 2: and pressure. It didn't end there, though, She also implicated
13:58
Speaker 2: her grandmother, Old Demdike, and they're family members of the
14:01
Speaker 2: chat Tawks family. Allison's confession was all it took to
14:05
Speaker 2: spread suspicion over her family and even her rivals. Oh no,
14:09
Speaker 2: it was only the start of the floodgates of accusations
14:13
Speaker 2: that would soon sweep up the family, neighbors and rivals alike.
14:17
Speaker 2: So after she admitted to cursing John, local magistrate Roger
14:21
Speaker 2: Nowell launched a full investigation, interviewing villagers, family members, you
14:26
Speaker 2: name it, everyone to uncover what he believed would be
14:29
Speaker 2: a network of witches operating in the area.
14:33
Speaker 3: So it's not even necessarily that this is like a
14:35
Speaker 3: crime per se, but it's a crime I guess that
14:38
Speaker 3: they're doing witchcraft, right, Like cursing someone isn't necessarily a crime,
14:44
Speaker 3: but it's just showing that they're witches, which is not okay.
14:48
Speaker 2: Well that time, if you're going to curse someone, you're
14:50
Speaker 2: basically going to be a witch, which is a crime.
14:52
Speaker 2: So cursing someone therefore is a crime technically, okay, or
14:56
Speaker 2: crime adjacent.
14:57
Speaker 3: It's just I don't know. It's just so interesting listening
14:59
Speaker 3: because this shit would just like not really fly today
15:02
Speaker 3: because could you imagine be like I cursed that person,
15:05
Speaker 3: They'd be like, okay, cool.
15:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're crazy. Fuck you, good luck with your curses.
15:10
Speaker 3: You know.
15:12
Speaker 2: I don't know why I put on a bus next
15:13
Speaker 2: and thought, oh.
15:14
Speaker 3: You really did.
15:15
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, we're going there.
15:17
Speaker 2: I mean maybe it's because of like you know, like actually, no,
15:20
Speaker 2: I don't know where I was going with us, because
15:21
Speaker 2: there's some witch trials down in Salem, which isn't too
15:23
Speaker 2: far from Boston. I think that maybe that's why I
15:25
Speaker 2: did that.
15:25
Speaker 3: That's why you did that.
15:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, anyways, I digress. Now. The accusations spread quickly. Noel's
15:32
Speaker 2: investigation led to the arrests of both the dam Dykes
15:34
Speaker 2: and the Chatthawk's family, along with other villages as well,
15:38
Speaker 2: villagers as well, sorry, villagers that were rumored to be
15:41
Speaker 2: involved in witchcraft, because as I mentioned, he's going around
15:44
Speaker 2: talking to different villagers, different family members, He's talking to
15:47
Speaker 2: everyone in the area. And these are people who, as
15:50
Speaker 2: I mentioned at the very beginning, and know every detail
15:53
Speaker 2: about each other. They're all up in each other's business, right,
15:55
Speaker 2: So all it takes is for two people to maybe
15:57
Speaker 2: argue over something earlier and someone like shake their fish
16:00
Speaker 2: curse you, wow, you said the wrong thing two weeks ago.
16:04
Speaker 2: If one person's going to pass this on to the
16:06
Speaker 2: local authorities, and now you're implicated as a witch as well.
16:09
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, roomed, I guess.
16:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's nothing you can do. So where am I here? Okay?
16:18
Speaker 2: So each interrogation brought more accusations, with suspects revealing details
16:22
Speaker 2: about charms, curses and suppose deals with the devils, and
16:26
Speaker 2: this is where all that like you know, talking stuff
16:29
Speaker 2: and back and forth and all that comes in. So
16:31
Speaker 2: under pressure, the accused named others as well. So when
16:34
Speaker 2: they get accused, they also name someone else, and people
16:37
Speaker 2: being arrested quite a bit.
16:39
Speaker 3: So yeah, this is just going down a complete rabbit
16:42
Speaker 3: hole of shit exactly.
16:44
Speaker 2: And remember these are small villages too, so it's not
16:46
Speaker 2: like the population is high here. I would imagine, like,
16:49
Speaker 2: I don't even think the population would have broke a hundred.
16:51
Speaker 2: It's like, that's my guess.
16:52
Speaker 3: This is kind of sad. Like.
16:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, So, by the end of the investigation, twelve people
16:57
Speaker 2: were accused of witchcraft and ten would go to trial.
17:01
Speaker 2: The alleged crimes included cursing livestock, causing illness, and even
17:05
Speaker 2: to the far extent of murder.
17:08
Speaker 3: Oh wow, Okay.
17:09
Speaker 2: What started as a single accusation quickly spiraled into a
17:13
Speaker 2: full blown witch hunt, with the fear and distrust taking
17:16
Speaker 2: over the entire community because they were pointing fingers all
17:20
Speaker 2: at each other.
17:22
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's too bad. I don't know. You almost think, oh,
17:26
Speaker 3: this little community could have, you know, almost like protected
17:30
Speaker 3: themselves in a way. I probably still would have gotten
17:33
Speaker 3: out and stuff. But like if they had just I
17:37
Speaker 3: don't know, but I mean, they all would have had
17:39
Speaker 3: it been on the same page and talking and exactly
17:41
Speaker 3: and stuff and had this like already planned if this
17:44
Speaker 3: ever came down.
17:46
Speaker 2: And the thing is too if you if you're being
17:48
Speaker 2: sitting here like interviewed by the magistrate and you button up.
17:52
Speaker 2: You're not being honest, you're not talking. They're probably gonna
17:55
Speaker 2: accuse you of aft. Well you're not talking, you don't
17:58
Speaker 2: want to give details clearly or hiding something like yeah,
18:01
Speaker 2: who knows what they're going to do at that time
18:03
Speaker 2: that day and age right.
18:04
Speaker 3: M hm, and like they were being convinced that they
18:06
Speaker 3: were doing something wrong and so yeah.
18:09
Speaker 2: Exactly so. And I'm sure there's lots of things like
18:13
Speaker 2: I don't think charms would have been abnormal in the area.
18:15
Speaker 2: So if the magistrate's knocking on your door and they
18:17
Speaker 2: see a charm right there and be like, oh, what's this? Oh,
18:19
Speaker 2: it will tell me who gave that to you and
18:21
Speaker 2: you will be safe, like, you know, tell me where
18:23
Speaker 2: you got that from. Yeah, and then you spill the beans.
18:27
Speaker 2: So the trial of Pendle Witches took place in August
18:30
Speaker 2: of sixteen twelve at the Lancaster I Sees Church or
18:34
Speaker 2: Sorry Court. It's a court known for giving out harsh punishments,
18:38
Speaker 2: which is hey, the perfect place for witch trial right.
18:41
Speaker 2: The case was led by Sir James Altham, a strict
18:44
Speaker 2: judge with a firm stance against witchcraft, so.
18:49
Speaker 3: Not bias at all, not at all.
18:51
Speaker 2: The odds are always stacking up in these of course, right. Yeah,
18:54
Speaker 2: So the accused face serious charges, as I mentioned, things
18:57
Speaker 2: even upwards as far as murder, and they were seen
19:01
Speaker 2: as major threats to both society and the crown. Specifically,
19:05
Speaker 2: the courtroom was filled with villagers, magistrates, and officials, all
19:08
Speaker 2: gathered to witness what would occur. So those who were
19:12
Speaker 2: accused were mostly poor, unable to read or write, and
19:15
Speaker 2: they didn't even have lawyers to help them. They faced
19:18
Speaker 2: a trial where they had little chance to defend themselves,
19:21
Speaker 2: let alone even have a chance of getting out of there.
19:25
Speaker 3: That's so sad, I know.
19:28
Speaker 2: So claims of spectral evidence, which is where people reported
19:32
Speaker 2: seeing supernatural events, were accepted without question, including stories about gatherings, curses,
19:39
Speaker 2: and dealings with the devil. So I saw this person
19:42
Speaker 2: speaking with the devil directly. They took that as facts
19:45
Speaker 2: in the courtroom. Yeah, that's what they did. They're like,
19:48
Speaker 2: I saw this person, I don't know, there was an
19:52
Speaker 2: aura around them on the full moon, and I saw
19:54
Speaker 2: them out in the middle of the night. Like that
19:58
Speaker 2: sort of shit was just take in his fact. Someone
20:01
Speaker 2: could just spill whatever the fuck they wanted and it
20:03
Speaker 2: was taken as fact.
20:04
Speaker 3: I know, because you almost wonder if all of it,
20:07
Speaker 3: you know, if some of it. I'm sure some of
20:09
Speaker 3: the stuff that came out was like made up. Oh,
20:11
Speaker 3: I'm sure majority of it was, especially with like rival
20:15
Speaker 3: rivalries going on in the in the town or village
20:18
Speaker 3: or whatever.
20:19
Speaker 2: Right, exactly, I lost my place here? Where are we?
20:24
Speaker 3: I do not know we are? Oh, I'm just going
20:27
Speaker 3: to tell you what we just talked about.
20:29
Speaker 2: So the authorities also relied heavily on claims of quote
20:33
Speaker 2: witch marks, which remarks physical marks on the accused which
20:37
Speaker 2: were believed to show the pre the pact that they
20:39
Speaker 2: have with the devil. The only problem is these witch
20:42
Speaker 2: marks were not consistent and always the same, so they
20:45
Speaker 2: could be as harmless as a birthmark or a scar
20:48
Speaker 2: that each individual possessed on their body. So the court
20:52
Speaker 2: would look at them be like, you have a scar
20:54
Speaker 2: in your wrist, that's your pack with the devil. You
20:56
Speaker 2: got a birthmark on your shoulder, that's your pact with
20:59
Speaker 2: the devil.
21:00
Speaker 3: Early just shit that you were born with, yep.
21:03
Speaker 2: Or it's like I got this scar farming two years ago. Yeah,
21:06
Speaker 2: when you made a pact with the devil, you heathen,
21:09
Speaker 2: like you know, like they're just literally making it up.
21:12
Speaker 2: And this is the sort of stuff that probably would
21:13
Speaker 2: have been written in that book by King James the first.
21:16
Speaker 2: This sort of shit. The mark of the pact that
21:18
Speaker 2: the devil can be hidden in any ways, and different
21:20
Speaker 2: from person to person, as their packs all change, search
21:23
Speaker 2: their bodies to find a mark. It is most guaranteed
21:25
Speaker 2: that is the pact. I just made that up, but
21:27
Speaker 2: I'm sure it says something along live to that, you know.
21:30
Speaker 3: So some of these people honestly were just doomed from
21:33
Speaker 3: the start, really like there's like nothing they could even do.
21:36
Speaker 2: No chance. Now, these marks, as I mentioned, could be harmless,
21:39
Speaker 2: but they were always seen as proof of guilt. Other
21:43
Speaker 2: evidence include descriptions of witches, familiars, or spirit animal companions.
21:48
Speaker 2: So if you had a pet or something, yeah, that's
21:50
Speaker 2: your familiar you are a witch.
21:52
Speaker 3: Oh, familiars oh man, yeah okay.
21:55
Speaker 2: Or it's like I've seen them. They got lots of
21:57
Speaker 2: mice in their house. Those they're familiarly, you know, who
21:59
Speaker 2: knows what a doing. The court accepted these circumstantial pieces
22:03
Speaker 2: of evidence as clear signs of guilt once again, but
22:07
Speaker 2: most of all. One of the saddest part of the
22:09
Speaker 2: Pendle witch trials was the involvement of nine year old
22:12
Speaker 2: Jeannette Device, Allison's younger sister. In a rare and controversial move,
22:18
Speaker 2: Jeannette would be called to testify against her own family.
22:24
Speaker 3: What yeah, that's not okay, Yeah, not okay.
22:28
Speaker 1: Oh no.
22:30
Speaker 2: So in a crowded courtroom, nine year old Jeannette, likely
22:33
Speaker 2: unaware of the weight of her words and what she
22:35
Speaker 2: was saying, accused her own family members of witchcraft, including
22:39
Speaker 2: her mother, Elizabeth Device and her older sister Alison.
22:43
Speaker 1: No.
22:44
Speaker 2: Jeannette's calm descriptions of witch meetings, spells, and alleged deals
22:49
Speaker 2: with the devil became powerful evidence in the courtroom's eyes.
22:53
Speaker 2: Her testimony confirmed the fears of the judges and the jury,
22:57
Speaker 2: convincing them of the guilt of those acute used.
23:01
Speaker 3: Oh man, she.
23:03
Speaker 2: Grew up with this. Well, yes, this is just her life.
23:06
Speaker 3: She just didn't think anything of it was wrong.
23:08
Speaker 2: Exactly, she's nine. Exactly, My grandma makes spells for people
23:14
Speaker 2: and she yeah, she does the charms.
23:17
Speaker 3: And she's helped or she is helping people or something
23:20
Speaker 3: right like, or she helped her crops grow. This year
23:23
Speaker 3: or whatever, and.
23:25
Speaker 2: Which which which is all the courtroom is hearing, And
23:29
Speaker 2: of course a judgement hates witchcraft is probably hearing it
23:33
Speaker 2: tenfold in his ears. Right. So now the trial ended
23:37
Speaker 2: with a quick and brutal decision of twelve accused. Ten
23:41
Speaker 2: were found guilty and sentenced to death by hanging. Among
23:45
Speaker 2: those sentence were Alison de Weiss and her mother Elizabeth.
23:49
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, and wittle old Chattawks.
23:52
Speaker 3: So like that little girl lost what her sister, her mom,
23:55
Speaker 3: and probably grandmom, grandmother.
23:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, I believe so. The court showed absolutely no mercy,
24:02
Speaker 2: believing they were the agents of the devil. Execution Day
24:05
Speaker 2: marked the end of the Pendle Witch trials. On August twentieth,
24:09
Speaker 2: sixteen twelve. The convicted individuals were taken to Gallows Hill
24:14
Speaker 2: near Lancaster, where they were hung that morning. The Pendle
24:19
Speaker 2: Witches met their unfortunate fate, paying the ultimate price for
24:22
Speaker 2: crimes rooted in fear, not even crimes, but supposed crimes
24:27
Speaker 2: rooted in fear, rivalry, and strict beliefs. At the time.
24:31
Speaker 2: As for authorities, this public execution was both a warning
24:34
Speaker 2: to others and a way for them to show their
24:37
Speaker 2: power over the frightened superstitious community. The Pendel Witch Trials
24:41
Speaker 2: left a permanent mark in this region and also in
24:43
Speaker 2: English history. They became one of the country's most infamous
24:47
Speaker 2: examples of which hunt hysteria. For generations, the trials have
24:51
Speaker 2: served as a warning about the dangers of superstition and
24:54
Speaker 2: the tragic result of justice systems driven by fear and prejudice. Primarily,
25:01
Speaker 2: one of the biggest things on this though, was relying
25:03
Speaker 2: on the testimony of a child and forced confessions and
25:06
Speaker 2: claims of supernatural evidence. But the trial showed how easily
25:09
Speaker 2: fear could take over an entire legal system YEP. In
25:13
Speaker 2: centuries since, Pendall Hill has become closely linked to the trials,
25:17
Speaker 2: drawing visitors interested in its history and its connection to
25:20
Speaker 2: the supernatural. The hill is steeped in folklore, attracting people
25:24
Speaker 2: who are curious about the dark past and the lives
25:26
Speaker 2: of those who had died. Local events and exhibits often
25:30
Speaker 2: tell the stories of the accused, helping to humanize those
25:33
Speaker 2: who were branded as witches, which I love YEP. Today,
25:38
Speaker 2: the Pendle Witch Trials remind us of the dangers of
25:40
Speaker 2: mass fear. They have inspired books, films, and studies into
25:44
Speaker 2: the complex mix of folklore, justice, and of course tragedy.
25:49
Speaker 3: Okay, what did you call the hill Pendall Hill or no,
25:53
Speaker 3: like where they went to go? Oh you said something
25:57
Speaker 3: be hung?
25:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, let mean it was Gallows.
26:01
Speaker 3: Hill, Okay, because I feel like I've actually heard of that.
26:05
Speaker 2: The gallows. Yeah, well, the gallows is where people get hung.
26:09
Speaker 3: Right, Okay, so that's why.
26:11
Speaker 2: Okay, I see you send the witches to the gallows.
26:13
Speaker 3: The gallows Okay, yeah, so that okay, it's not really
26:16
Speaker 3: that that could be called that.
26:17
Speaker 2: Anywhere, right exactly.
26:18
Speaker 3: Yeah, But I like how you said it was public
26:21
Speaker 3: because I was just like I was before you even
26:23
Speaker 3: said that. I was like, gosh, and they're all getting
26:25
Speaker 3: hung and there's just like a fucking audience watching all
26:29
Speaker 3: of this.
26:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, in those days, it was public execution. Yeah, especially
26:33
Speaker 2: for witch trials like this. They made a big thing
26:35
Speaker 2: about it.
26:37
Speaker 3: Oh, it's just just so brutal.
26:40
Speaker 2: Hey, and now this is one of those events it's
26:42
Speaker 2: like you can you can deep dive into it. There's
26:45
Speaker 2: a lot to it. This is only scratching the surface.
26:48
Speaker 2: But it was so fitting for Halloween. I mean, I
26:50
Speaker 2: had to do this. How can we not do a
26:52
Speaker 2: witch trial for Halloween, right, huh. I mean it's fascinating. Yeah,
26:57
Speaker 2: you could go like just so go down a rabbit
26:59
Speaker 2: hole with all that, Oh you can. Well, I mean
27:01
Speaker 2: it's even taken root in like pop culture and movies
27:04
Speaker 2: and stuff. Oh yeah, if you think of hocus Pocus
27:06
Speaker 2: at the very beginning beginning, when they've cursed thatchery banks
27:10
Speaker 2: and the witches there the three witches, the three sisters,
27:12
Speaker 2: the Sanderson's sisters, they get hung at the gallows before,
27:17
Speaker 2: right at the very beginning of the movie.
27:18
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's been a year since I at
27:21
Speaker 3: least a year since I've watched that. I need to
27:23
Speaker 3: watch We need to watch it again before Halloween.
27:25
Speaker 2: Oh we will be. We got a few days of
27:27
Speaker 2: Halloween still in US and a few days after.
27:30
Speaker 3: Yeah, there you go. It's going to go into like
27:32
Speaker 3: November second.
27:32
Speaker 2: Now, no, it's going to go into December second. But
27:38
Speaker 2: if you are curious, we do have a thirty one
27:40
Speaker 2: days of Halloween movies on our Patreon. You can go
27:43
Speaker 2: sign up and get access to that. Yeah, that's all
27:47
Speaker 2: I really got.
27:49
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's it's a good one. It's well,
27:52
Speaker 3: I mean it's terrible, but it's good.
27:53
Speaker 2: It's an interesting story. Yeah, I honestly I think it'd
27:56
Speaker 2: be a cool place to go visit one day.
27:58
Speaker 3: It would be. It's just so hard to almost grasp,
28:01
Speaker 3: you know, like your brains so long ago, but it's
28:05
Speaker 3: hard to I mean, I understand the story and everything,
28:08
Speaker 3: but to like put yourself in that situation, because it's
28:11
Speaker 3: just like it wouldn't happen today, you know, No.
28:14
Speaker 2: Well I would sure fucking hope it wouldn't happen today.
28:16
Speaker 2: But with how much ease it was to accuse of
28:19
Speaker 2: someone of being a witch back in those days, Yeah,
28:23
Speaker 2: is remarkable.
28:24
Speaker 3: So much. There's just so much biasness to everything, and
28:27
Speaker 3: it just, like I said, you're just doomed, like it
28:29
Speaker 3: didn't even matter. The sports didn't even matter.
28:31
Speaker 2: Probably, no, they didn't. You're taking one person's word against another.
28:35
Speaker 2: And even still they can make something up like I've
28:37
Speaker 2: seen gag Instagram reels and tiktoks and stuff, just jokes
28:41
Speaker 2: where people like poke fun at the situation. And don't
28:44
Speaker 2: get me wrong, it's funny in that context, but it's
28:47
Speaker 2: not funny in real life. But they're saying, like, for example,
28:51
Speaker 2: a guy in the sixteen hundreds he goes up to
28:53
Speaker 2: a girl AND's like, hey, you're good looking, you want
28:54
Speaker 2: to go for dinner or something like that, like sixteen
28:56
Speaker 2: hundreds guy hitting on a sixteen hundred woman, right, and
28:59
Speaker 2: she's like no and declines, and what does he do? Whitch?
29:03
Speaker 3: Right? I have seen stuff like that.
29:06
Speaker 2: And she's like, what do you mean. It's like I
29:07
Speaker 2: just saw you hover three inches off the ground. You're
29:09
Speaker 2: a witch? And then everyone takes his word for it,
29:12
Speaker 2: and of course burned at the steak, It's like what
29:15
Speaker 2: it literally was as simple as that by the sounds
29:17
Speaker 2: of it.
29:17
Speaker 3: Yeah, for some well, well, I mean to have your
29:20
Speaker 3: own like daughter and sister up there in like the courts. Yeah,
29:26
Speaker 3: talking about your way of life and living you know
29:30
Speaker 3: that is not okay?
29:32
Speaker 2: No, definitely not. Anyways, we digress. We kind of got
29:36
Speaker 2: off a little bit of a tangent here and just
29:37
Speaker 2: like chatting a bit. But we appreciate you guys being here.
29:40
Speaker 3: We do.
29:40
Speaker 2: We have two more days of Halloween week. We've gone
29:43
Speaker 2: through five already. We've got some good stuff planned for you,
29:47
Speaker 2: so hopefully you're going to stick around, and hopefully if
29:49
Speaker 2: you can't, that's totally fine. We can't We're not gonna
29:51
Speaker 2: blame you, but hopefully you have a good Halloween regardless,
29:54
Speaker 2: and hopefully we can be there with you through your Halloween.
29:56
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah until tomorrow.
29:58
Speaker 2: It's my impression of you. Yeah yeah, until tomorrow, Jacko,
30:05
Speaker 2: Stay wicked.
30:09
Speaker 1: H