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Why Testosterone Is Falling in Younger Men with Dr. Howard Aubert · Non-Toxic Living

0:00
There's actually studies out there that shows that low testosterone, less than 600, shortens overall survival by about 30%.
0:06
So having low testosterone is actually bad.
0:09
Yeah, and it's epidemically low.
0:11
It is.
0:11
If you think back to tradition, they would always say that your T levels start dropping about 1% after you hit age 40.
0:18
And what's an optimal level even in your 20s?
0:20
I think optimal level across the board is probably somewhere between... Plastics in the testes, like what's going on with microplastics and fertility.
0:28
The research is showing that microplastics are prevalent in testicular tissue, and that may be a big part of...
0:33
I have seen in my friends that their testosterone seems to drop significantly post-vasectomy.
0:40
Is it true?
0:40
Can it happen?
0:41
Most guys have no idea how much better they could be feeling if their testosterone were optimized.
0:47
I think one of the biggest problems that we have is...
0:53
This is really cool.
0:54
I, the moment I met you, Howard, I was like, this guy's got something special.
0:57
He has a beautiful heart and your urologist, Howard O'Bear.
1:01
Welcome to the podcast.
1:02
We're going to talk about T, testosterone, testicles, all the things that you utilize in your clinic to help people.
1:11
We can talk about microplastics, some of the toxicity, newer information for you and some of the patterns.
1:18
So welcome to the show.
1:20
Let's talk tea, man.
1:22
you know, why, why testosterone?
1:25
Why is that a problem?
1:26
What's going on with people today?
1:27
Well, why testosterone?
1:29
I think the major issue is people don't realize just how important it is and how many different parts of your lifestyle it impacts.
1:37
Most guys think testosterone and they think either muscles or sex.
1:41
And that's great.
1:42
Those two do count for sure.
1:44
They do that like high school.
1:46
We call it exactly, you know, but what we realize is that it's important in so many other things.
1:52
When you think of cognitive function, like brain fog, mental clarity, you think about motivation and you think about bone density, you know, just.
2:02
cardiovascular strength, just overall metabolic health, like testosterone is responsible for so much.
2:09
Your metabolism, your energy levels, just there's a plethora of ways that it helps affect your body and people just, they don't realize it.
2:18
Yeah, and it's epidemically low.
2:20
It is epidemically low.
2:22
If you think about back to tradition, they would always say that your T levels start dropping about 1% after you hit age 40.
2:30
Well, in our clinic, we're seeing something vastly different than that.
2:34
In our clinic, we do a lot of vasectomies.
2:36
I mean, I've probably personally done
2:39
eight or 9,000 vasectomies.
2:40
Holy cow.
2:41
In our clinic, what we offer is we offer free hormone testing, free testosterone testing to anyone who gets a vasectomy.
2:47
And the trends that we've seen are staggering.
2:50
Like we were seeing guys in their 20s and their 30s with testosterone that are extremely suboptimal for what we would think they would need to be at.
2:58
And what's an optimal level even in your 20s?
3:01
I think optimal level across the board is probably somewhere between 800 and 1,000.
3:07
You can get super physiologic levels as well.
3:10
So you can be too high.
3:12
And when you think of people like that, you think of chronically your wrestlers, your professional wrestlers.
3:16
You know, the Hulk Hogan, the Andre the Giants.
3:18
You think, you know, Macho Man, Randy Savage.
3:21
Yeah, who died.
3:21
Yeah.
3:22
Yeah.
3:22
All these guys die from cardiac disease.
3:24
And it's because they're walking around with testosterone in the 3,000 and 4,000 range.
3:28
And, you know, the culture around testosterone and having it high is really big in certain sectors.
3:35
You know, you look at the bodybuilding world, you look at the, you know, physique world, you look at the pro wrestling world and they can really skew very high.
3:44
But those are...
3:45
synthetically induced high testosterone.
3:48
Yeah, they're doing it for a purpose.
3:51
And it does put pressure on society.
3:53
I think, do you think right now that there is a pressure?
3:57
And maybe that's why younger men are doing testosterone.
4:00
Do you think there's this pressure to have a certain T level?
4:03
Besides the fact that there is lower T that's clinically low, but...
4:07
I think that if you, I think that social media plays a huge part into it.
4:12
I think that if you look at what pops up on people's feeds, I know my feeds, and it's always these guys who are shredded, and they're talking about their T protocols or whatever their hormone protocols are.
4:23
And I try to remind my patients that
4:25
Those are 2% of the population that you see on social media.
4:29
That stuff is actually working for.
4:31
And those are the guys that their diet's dialed in, their workouts are dialed in.
4:35
And so it's really hard to get those results.
4:38
But that's the look everybody wants.
4:40
But they don't realize what it takes to get that beyond just T. They're just like, well, if I just do this, then I'll look like that.
4:46
That's not how it works.
4:47
That's not how it works at all.
4:48
And there's a lot of, I mean, I even have friends that are working out that are doing running higher testosterone in the 1200s, 1300s, 1400s that are getting shredded, that their diets are not optimal and they're getting a lot more fit and they can get away with it, right?
5:07
A lot more.
5:08
Is that my imagination?
5:10
What they say to me?
5:11
Well, they can get away with it for a while, like anything.
5:16
You can run, you know, levels 12, 14, 1500 for a period of time.
5:21
But eventually, you know, those chronically high levels can be problematic.
5:26
And again, that's a specific population.
5:29
You know, people are elite athletes training.
5:32
You know, they're doing it for a specific purpose.
5:34
For the general public, I don't think that's something that that's not the goal.
5:38
Yeah.
5:39
And I say it from my experience, my lived experience is that I see a lot of shredded influencers.
5:45
And I used to get comments like, I'm not going to take advice from you because you don't look a certain way.
5:51
And, you know, I have to say it did sting a little.
5:53
And then, but what's cool now is I'm like...
5:58
It is because I don't, I'm not training hard because my testosterone levels have, since I'm 40, have gone up dramatically.
6:04
They've more than doubled.
6:06
And that's a whole nother conversation.
6:08
That's very unusual.
6:09
That is very unusual.
6:10
And I believe, and that's why we're talking, like, I believe is because of having one of the lowest, you know, toxicity levels that...
6:17
vibrant labs have ever measured.
6:18
I have zero microplastics in my blood, and they're hormone disruptive, right?
6:23
That's what toxins are.
6:24
So I'm not going to say that's the case.
6:26
I'm not telling people that that's the reason that happened, but it sure seems like in my lived experience, living a cleaner lifestyle, eating healthy fats, getting rid of the seed oils, the things that...
6:38
disrupt cellular function, cellular fluidity, mitochondrial function, you know, and I don't have anything wrong.
6:45
I don't have no problem with someone getting on TRT.
6:47
I have an issue for our young men who are getting on TRT that are becoming infertile because of it.
6:54
And that, you know, it's not going to help their life expectancy in certain categories.
6:59
It can help longevity.
7:01
So I want you to speak to when, with your expertise, the thousands of people, and I have another one about vasectomies because I have a, I have a question there about testosterone levels because I've seen it in my friends who's gotten vasectomies.
7:15
But when is it, what is it doing to these young men that's, that's causing damage?
7:21
When does it not serve them long-term?
7:25
And then as a physician, do you communicate that to them?
7:29
Even if they're, they're willing to write you a check for, you know, your, your services, do you, do you go down and say, Hey, look, this could cause this or, and do they even care because the drive for looking a certain way is much greater than the, the negatives that's.
7:45
I think it depends on how you educate your clients.
7:50
For me, I'm a fan of TRT in the right population.
7:54
And I think there's a very specific population for it.
7:57
And the way I look at testosterone replacement or optimization is the first question I ask if someone comes in with a low testosterone, I look at them and my first question to myself is, does this guy look like he's incapable of producing testosterone?
8:12
Because the classic definition of low testosterone is testicular failure, which means the testicles are no longer capable of producing that.
8:20
And that typically happens to guys who are much, much older, like guys in their 60s, 70s, 80s.
8:24
And those guys are great candidates for TRT.
8:27
They have no other way to do it.
8:27
They have no other way.
8:28
Yeah.
8:29
You know, but for guys younger than that, I don't think TRT is a very good treatment option.
8:34
It's one of the few things that we know that's FDA approved, but has several known severe side effects that you didn't have to treat on top of it.
8:43
And so for younger guys, I kind of try to educate them really well.
8:46
I'm like, yeah, you can get on TRT, but you can expect to have, you know, you might lose your hair.
8:51
You might get bad acne.
8:53
You know, you might get nipple soreness or breast tissue growth.
8:56
You might, you know, you might have to go donate blood every other month.
9:00
And so when you educate them about the potential downfalls about it, then they can be, I think, a little bit more realistic about risks versus benefits.
9:10
And then, you know, you can give them other treatment options.
9:14
I think a big thing is...
9:18
preserving testicular function or even stimulating testicular function.
9:22
And when we look at what are the particular kind of causes of low testosterone in young guys.
9:27
And so I think that's, you know, huge, huge.
9:30
What are some of those methods?
9:32
Um, methods or causes?
9:34
Uh, the methods, we can get into causes in a little bit, but what are some of the methods you would use to stimulate versus, uh, give them TRT so their balls shrivel away?
9:44
Um, if just being honest, I mean, what happens?
9:48
Right, right.
9:48
Didn't need to be a neurologist to know that, like a neuroscientist or...
9:51
Right.
9:52
So I think number one, you need to start with an enhanced lab panel to see where the breakdown is.
9:57
Yeah.
9:58
You look at it cyclical, right?
10:02
Normally, the testicles are responsible for making testosterone.
10:05
The brain is constantly monitoring how much testosterone is in your system.
10:10
If the levels get low, your brain sends signals to your testicles to make more.
10:14
Amazing.
10:15
You know, if your levels are high, your brain says, oh, we got enough testosterone.
10:19
We can slow these signals down.
10:21
But there are multiple other spots in that cycle that can be off as well.
10:26
And so you need to check full total and free testosterone.
10:30
Everybody does that.
10:31
Not a big deal.
10:31
You need to check estrogen levels.
10:33
You also need to check LH and FSH levels.
10:36
Not a lot of people check those.
10:38
You need to check prolactin levels.
10:39
And you need to check vitamin D levels.
10:41
You can also check zinc and boron levels as well.
10:44
And when you do a more exotic panel or a more complete panel, you can pick out the things that are not right.
10:50
And then you treat the issues, you know?
10:52
So every person that has low T doesn't need T. And I've seen people with low T get treated with T and have no effect because that wasn't the problem.
11:02
Like LS is luteinizing hormone and luteinizing stimulating hormone?
11:05
Yeah, LH is luteinizing hormone and FSH is follicle stimulating hormone.
11:09
Okay.
11:10
Those are the two signals that the brain sends.
11:12
That's awesome.
11:13
So it might not be, it just might be a signal issue.
11:16
It could be.
11:17
A lot of times it's a signal issue.
11:18
No one's talking about that.
11:19
No one talks about it.
11:20
Because it doesn't, you can't scale an online program where I can give you a quick hormone panel and then write you a script for testosterone so that you can get an injection that spikes your hormones and makes you happy for four days and then you're miserable the rest of the month.
11:36
And you shouldn't be, you're married and you're staring at women and you shouldn't.
11:40
It's too much.
11:41
So let's talk about that, you know, because there's a lot of side effects with doing testosterone improperly.
11:47
And a lot of people are suffering because of it.
11:49
I believe I've seen it personally hurt marriages.
11:51
I've seen it personally hurt people in their business.
11:54
I've seen them make it changes their personality.
11:57
And that's not cool when it starts affecting how you're showing up in humanity.
12:04
That's not cool.
12:05
That's not cool at all.
12:07
And I think...
12:09
20 years ago, TRT was great because it was our only option.
12:14
And so you could make some people feel better than great.
12:17
But over time, I think a little bit of gym culture or bro culture, gym bro culture, whatever you want to call it, has kind of amplified the importance of, you know, higher and higher testosterone levels.
12:30
And so I've seen- Making you feel less than.
12:33
Yeah.
12:33
Making you feel less than if you're not shredded, if your muscles aren't big, you know, if you know, if you don't.
12:40
you know, just all the things.
12:41
Yeah.
12:42
And you might, you might not get the girl.
12:43
You might not get the girl, which is actually true, untrue.
12:47
According to the research, they'd rather have just a regular guy for marriage anyway.
12:52
Yep.
12:53
I think that we didn't do a good job as physicians, understanding the metabolic pathways of kind of how this is work, how this works.
13:01
And so I,
13:03
You know, if you look at, you can give TRT, it's very simple, it's very easy, it's very profitable, and you know, you can kind of set it and forget it, but the problem is people set it and forget it.
13:15
And they leave people on these dosages, they're not checking labs often enough.
13:19
And what we found,
13:21
is that because we do have some people some clients and patients on trt what we found is that you have to check labs very frequently we check labs quarterly because the levels change depending on the season like 80 of our clients their levels drop in the winter time 20 don't so we have to do dose adjustments for them same thing in the summer some of our clients levels go up some go down we dose adjust because we love when our clients fit in that range
13:47
that between 800 and a thousand, because that's where they feel great without being too high, without being too low.
13:53
So we try to keep them right there.
13:55
And if you're only checking blood levels once a year or twice a year, you're going to miss those changes.
14:00
And the problem is you're not talking to your patients because you're not seeing them.
14:03
And so they're going through these up and downs with the seasons and that they could be better.
14:09
And so we just check in more frequently.
14:11
And I think that's first do no harm when you put something on.
14:15
I mean, I'm not even a physician.
14:17
I don't work in hormones.
14:17
I don't understand these pathways at a deep level.
14:21
And it only makes sense if you're giving someone such a powerful product that literally needs to be looked at.
14:28
Because if you're not adjusting those levels, I've seen my friends that aren't getting adjusted.
14:33
They get the medical doctor online.
14:34
They get the TRT.
14:36
They're doing the adjustment.
14:37
I mean, the injection.
14:39
And...
14:40
And it's everyone around them going, you need to get your levels checked.
14:45
Why aren't they?
14:45
I mean, this is normal humans.
14:47
We can feel that you're off.
14:49
Like, why don't you get your levels?
14:51
I'm fine.
14:51
I'm fine.
14:52
You know, and they're justifying because they're big moves in the gym.
14:55
But meanwhile, their life is falling apart and everyone's like, you're not being kind.
14:59
You're blowing up on the kids.
15:01
And they're not...
15:02
they're not going to a practice like yours that actually cares about these outcomes and wanting people to truly have, instead of the churn and burn, let's make a bunch of money doing TRT, which happens.
15:13
And there's a lot of great clinics like yours out there.
15:15
But how do you create that stability?
15:17
Like you don't, do you do injections?
15:19
Like, what do you do?
15:20
So we offer all modalities.
15:23
We offer for TRT, we offer injections, we offer topicals, we offer the orals, the newer orals that don't affect liver function, we offer those.
15:33
We do pellets as well.
15:34
What is the best method?
15:36
Safest?
15:39
I think the most consistent method is probably pellets because your levels stay consistent over a period of time.
15:45
And that goes under the skin?
15:47
Yeah.
15:47
So either in the flank or kind of upper buttock area.
15:50
And, you know, for guys, pellets last about six months.
15:53
And for women, pellets last about three to four months.
15:57
And I guess the cool thing about pellets is it doesn't require a lot of thought or action from the client.
16:05
I think if you look at creams and gels, the topicals, they can be pretty consistent.
16:10
But if you forget your medication and you drop a few days, then your levels drop.
16:15
Same thing with testosterone injections.
16:17
I think those are the most...
16:19
those are the most labile ones.
16:21
Those are the ones that has the most volatility because testosterone has a pretty short lifespan.
16:28
And so I remember in training, probably back 15 years ago, we would give people a 400 milligram shot once a month.
16:35
And they would feel fantastic for five days after the shot.
16:40
And then the week before the shot, they'd feel terrible.
16:42
And it's because the testosterone, when you inject into your system, you get a really high peak pretty quick within the first 24 hours.
16:49
But after that, the levels continuously decline.
16:52
I tell people it's like driving a Ferrari off the dealership.
16:55
It's great.
16:56
You bought it.
16:57
And then you start getting buyer's remorse as the car depreciates in a very accelerated pattern.
17:03
So that's what testosterone is.
17:05
And so you'll see a lot of places where it's now shifted to once a week or even twice a week.
17:11
At lower doses.
17:11
Yeah, at lower doses.
17:12
And that's a little bit more appropriate.
17:15
But people still get those kind of ups and downs where, you know, the levels aren't consistent all the time.
17:20
Yeah.
17:20
And I, the reason I asked this, cause I, I, I mean, I hear the horror stories, people going to, um, just like beauty clinics.
17:28
I don't, you know, I don't know what they're called, you know, not longevity clinics, but they're like, and they're doing all these different modalities and they had just happened to the medical doctor there who signs it off and they give you a pellet.
17:39
And now you have the pellet and they're not feeling well and their hair's falling out.
17:44
And this woman, and they never ran a blood panel.
17:46
They might've just run testosterone or they didn't even run a blood panel.
17:50
They just decided, which they can get in big trouble for that, but because they wanted to lose weight and look a certain way.
17:57
Well, here in our weight loss longevity clinic, we're giving pellets of testosterone.
18:02
This is going to change your life for your perimenopause.
18:04
Right.
18:05
oh my gosh, like you're setting fire to a hormonal system that can lead to cancer.
18:09
And so that's one of the, I have some few major questions here.
18:13
Well, first, before we leave this topic, is the safest method, like if you take it perfectly, right, is it the getting rid of human error, your ability to inject, your ability to take your med, that's where the pellet wins for patient compliance.
18:31
But out of the available testosterone, because I know there's different –
18:34
options in other countries.
18:36
What is the, like, if you're going to do TRT and stars aligned, perfect patient, this is the safest form and the most effective, if you could take it perfectly.
18:45
Well, that's the issue.
18:48
You can't just say that this is one perfect way, one perfect version because every client's different.
18:55
And so what we try to do is we try to match the treatment modality with their lifestyle.
18:59
Okay.
18:59
What about for someone like me that's going to do everything you say to the T and I want the non-toxic dad TRT version?
19:08
Yeah.
19:08
For you, I think probably like a topical bioidentical version would be great.
19:13
But again, you're only 55.
19:15
51.
19:17
I mean, sorry.
19:18
Oh, I don't want to prematurely age you.
19:21
You're only 51.
19:22
Like TRT probably is not a good idea for you.
19:24
So, I mean, again...
19:26
I'm not going to do it.
19:27
You're not going to do it.
19:28
But for us, we customize treatments for every person.
19:31
So, I mean...
19:32
I know a lot of places that we call them shot boxes.
19:34
There you go.
19:35
They have the same protocol for every single patient.
19:37
And we're just not like that.
19:39
Do not do that.
19:40
We are customized versions of everything for every person.
19:44
And we realize that treatment, treatment types and dosages change depending on age group of person, what their starting testosterone levels are, what their goal testosterone levels are.
19:55
Like we have a very controlled way that we do things.
19:58
Like we have a goal and we have a starting block and people start from different places and it may take longer times to get to their goal.
20:06
I think one of the biggest problems that we have is with places trying to ramp someone's testosterone up to an optimal level as fast as possible.
20:16
I think that's where you go wrong.
20:17
I think that's where you get the most side effects.
20:19
No.
20:20
I mean, if you think about the system, you know, you know this better than anyone.
20:23
The body likes to live in an equilibrium, you know?
20:26
And so if someone's been testosterone deficient for the past three, four years, they don't have any active androgen receptors.
20:34
And if you flood the system with a bunch of testosterone and there's no receptors for it, they're just going to go somewhere else where they can bind and cause problems.
20:43
And that's where you get into all these side effects.
20:45
That's a big, big takeaway for people listening to this is that if you don't do it and reintroduce it so your body can adapt.
20:53
And I think the body is...
20:55
my personal belief is it doesn't make mistakes.
20:57
It knows what it's doing, even in its low testosterone state.
21:00
It's doing other things.
21:01
It's getting energy.
21:03
It's driving up different metabolic pathways.
21:04
It's doing its best to balance and survive and thrive and not have brain fog and have energy.
21:10
And then let's just not understand this beautiful mechanism in biology and just
21:17
you know, put the foot up, put the metal, you know, pedal to the metal if you will, and turn on the gas and floor it and you know, I just don't think that it makes any sense with human biology at all.
21:27
No, the body doesn't work like that for anything.
21:30
So we typically have a very, you know, a protocol where we introduce and we slowly ramp up the testosterone.
21:36
And as you ramp it up, the body recognizes that, opens up more androgen receptors.
21:40
So every time you increase the dose, the body actually knows where that testosterone needs to go.
21:45
And that way you don't get the side effects.
21:48
It took us a while to figure that out, you know, but my approach was always like we looked at, especially for TRT, and we'll talk about other options in a bit, but TRT just has so many side effects.
22:00
And so the first thing I did when we started looking at it, I'm like, okay, can we work backwards from all these side effects and figure out, is there a way that we can prevent the side effects from...
22:10
from the beginning.
22:11
Because what typically happens is someone gets on TRT, they develop a bunch of side effects, and then they take more medications for all the side effects that they were given.
22:19
That sounds like a business model.
22:21
Well, I mean, you came in for one medication and three months later you're on five.
22:26
So that's a great business model because now you're paying for five different medications and you have to be seen more frequently because now you're having all these problems.
22:33
And so the alternative to that is think about it ahead of time, prevent all the side effects, and then you don't have to worry about that.
22:42
It sounds like first do no harm.
22:44
Yeah.
22:45
It sounds beautiful.
22:46
So I have these burning questions.
22:48
I'm going to go after the vasectomy.
22:50
No, let's hold the vasectomy one.
22:52
Let's hold them out there because I have a thesis.
22:55
But I want to talk about some of the negative side effects of testosterone.
22:59
If done improperly, can it shorten your lifespan?
23:02
Can it lead to cancer?
23:03
Some of these...
23:04
these bigger questions that people have that stop them from doing it at time.
23:08
And maybe there's some, there's people out there that really should be doing it.
23:11
You have those people.
23:13
And then I want to talk about luteinizing and some of these other strategies that use like luteinizing hormone.
23:19
Like, I don't even know if you can bioidentical that one.
23:22
So can you speak to that?
23:25
So there's actually studies out there that shows that low testosterone, less than 600, shortens overall survival by about 30%.
23:34
So having low testosterone is actually bad.
23:36
And what we were talking about earlier, having super high testosterone, super physiologic levels is also pretty bad because it can lead to a lot of times those guys die heart disease.
23:47
And so you want to fit in this nice little optimal range where you're not too high, not too low.
23:52
And then, because you can see guys whose testosterone is too high.
23:56
You can see it just by looking at them.
23:58
They look red.
24:01
Their skin is red.
24:02
And it's because of all the erythrocytosis and the blood, all the extra thickened blood is coming up to the surface of the skin.
24:08
You know, they all have the same build.
24:09
Big, big arms, big, big chest.
24:11
But they're not leaning through the abdomen.
24:13
No.
24:14
They're not leaning through the abdomen.
24:15
Is that liver king?
24:17
That's yeah liver king, you know, he's huge, but he doesn't look lean.
24:20
He's like he's he's got us like a four month pregnant six pack Right.
24:24
It's got big muscles, but the issue with those guys and there's a trick to that one as well.
24:29
That's the anastrozole so all these gym bros everybody's on online and they're pushing anastrozole because they're like Oh your estrogen's got to be low if you're on T. T makes your estrogen higher.
24:38
You got to drop the estrogen levels um
24:40
The problem is guys don't realize that estrogen serves a purpose in men.
24:45
Serves a big purpose.
24:45
You know, it helps with sleep.
24:47
It helps with the biggest one is it helps with visceral and subcutaneous body fat in the midsection.
24:53
So that's why you see these guys can't get lean.
24:56
2013, there was a study out of Harvard and they put guys on testosterone.
25:01
They did, you know, two arms and they put one set of guys on testosterone and the other set of guys on testosterone plus anastrozole.
25:09
And they checked the testosterone levels three months later.
25:12
The testosterone levels were the same in both groups.
25:15
Symptoms were the same in both groups.
25:17
The only difference, the guys who didn't take an estrozole were leaner through the midsection.
25:22
And so these guys that are taking this, they're actually probably doing, they're getting the opposite effect than they think they want.
25:29
Yeah, it's so, it just, it becomes cultural,
25:35
cultural hormone optimization instead of working with your body to have a better life.
25:41
Right.
25:41
And there's data out there.
25:43
Yeah.
25:43
What about the big C?
25:44
Is that a potential with TRT at high levels anyway?
25:50
Not really.
25:51
Okay.
25:52
There's always been a question about testosterone replacement or testosterone replacement and prostate cancer is the big one.
25:58
And the rationale behind that is because in prostate cancer, one of the ways we treat it, when advanced prostate cancer, one of the ways we treat it is to reduce androgens, to reduce the testosterone down to castrate level.
26:11
You know, so we want it less than 25.
26:13
Oh, wow.
26:14
You know, and so that's a problem, you know, and so those guys have a lot of symptoms.
26:21
What we found is that testosterone doesn't cause cancer.
26:26
If you have prostate cancer, testosterone may make it accelerate.
26:31
And so another thing, if you're going to look for someone who's over 45, you want to make sure you're checking their PSAs, looking at their prostate cancer risk, asking about family history of prostate cancer, things like that to make sure they're not in a risky situation.
26:45
Okay.
26:45
I like this.
26:47
So getting all my testosterone, you know, my burning questions about testosterone.
26:52
So, okay, let's look at some of the, you know, indirect ways of things for treatment.
26:58
So you do a full blood panel.
27:00
You find some other things in the blood work and the testosterone could be related to those.
27:05
What are those other treatments that you give?
27:08
Some of them can be simple.
27:10
One of the things that we've learned, especially in really young guys, like guys in their upper teens to lower 20s, vitamin D levels are super, super low.
27:18
You know, these are guys that play a lot of video games.
27:20
Maybe they don't get outside.
27:22
You know, the only way you can synthesize vitamin D is being out in the sun.
27:26
And so these guys just aren't exposed.
27:29
And what we found is sometimes if you can just optimize their vitamin D levels, their testosterone will improve by itself without doing anything else.
27:38
Brilliant.
27:39
Yeah.
27:40
Brilliant.
27:40
I'm like, you're vitamin D deficient.
27:42
That's it.
27:43
Yeah.
27:44
And so the issue with that is people don't know how to replace vitamin D and they don't know what goal vitamin D should be.
27:50
And so I don't know.
27:51
I looked at all the studies, looked at all the research.
27:53
What's the optimal levels of vitamin D do you think?
27:55
Optimal levels of vitamin D is probably somewhere between 75 and 100.
27:58
Yeah.
27:59
Right.
27:59
Not a lot of medical doctors would agree.
28:02
They want it like whatever the blood, you know, lab core says, you know, you're good.
28:10
You're in within range.
28:11
People don't understand that that's not a normal range.
28:14
That's the reference range of the last hundred thousand people who got their blood checked.
28:18
Mm hmm.
28:19
And so if the last 100,000 people got their blood check...
28:21
It was a sick population.
28:22
...or a sick population, then the norm is skewed towards the sick.
28:26
That's not optimal.
28:27
And so they actually did a study to figure out what the optimal ranges is, and that's what we looked at.
28:32
The other thing is most docs don't know how to...
28:37
tell people how to take supplements to get their levels to that optimal range.
28:42
Vitamin D comes in so many different form factors and dosages.
28:45
Sure does.
28:46
1000 units, 2000 units, 5000 units, 10,000 units, or you get the 50,000 unit injection.
28:54
So what we've learned is that one in 2000 doesn't change anything.
28:57
You might as well take a Skittle.
28:59
Like it won't change your levels.
29:00
Don't take a Skittle.
29:01
Yeah, don't take a Skittle.
29:03
Not on my watch.
29:04
5,000 units is a good maintenance dose.
29:06
So if you're in a 75 to 100 range, 5,000 will keep you there.
29:11
If you're in a treatment range, you need to take at least 10,000 a day.
29:15
And if you're taking 10,000 units a day, your vitamin D levels will increase by 10 nanograms per deciliter every month.
29:21
So if you start out at 20 and you need to be to 75, it's going to take you about five or six months to get there, taking 10,000 a day.
29:28
If you look at the shots, the shots come in 50,000 units.
29:31
So if you're taking a 10,000 pill every day, you're getting 70,000 units a week.
29:36
If you take the shot, you're getting 50,000.
29:37
So the oral version is actually still a little bit better than even getting the shots.
29:41
Yeah, and I think they don't have vitamin K2 in the shot either, which is not good because that can cause pathway issues.
29:49
Right, you need the vitamin, at least 100 micrograms of vitamin K2 mixed with your vitamin D so that
29:55
your body can tell the vitamin D and the calcium where to go and act.
29:58
Yep.
29:59
It's an important one.
30:00
Yeah, for sure.
30:01
So vitamin D for young men, what else?
30:03
Zinc levels?
30:05
Zinc levels.
30:06
A lot of guys have low zinc levels, boron levels as well.
30:11
And then we look at what we call CIRM.
30:14
Oh shoot, I've been taking more zinc.
30:15
I wonder if that did it.
30:17
Maybe.
30:18
Yeah.
30:18
9.51.
30:19
Let's go.
30:20
That's awesome, man.
30:21
I'm bro.
30:22
I'm a gym bro.
30:23
9.51 at 51 is incredible with no meds.
30:27
No meds.
30:28
I do take zinc.
30:29
That works.
30:30
What about, and then my free tea was fine too.
30:32
We checked it out because they're like, no way.
30:34
You know, Tim was like, come on, your free tea is, I'm like.
30:38
Sorry, Tim.
30:38
I'm good.
30:39
I'm good.
30:40
I did it.
30:41
It worked.
30:42
So yeah, zinc, boron levels.
30:46
Magnesium is another good one.
30:49
Then when we look at actual medical treatments, there's a number of them.
30:52
You can do HMG, HCG, clomiphene, or zooclomiphene, or nclomiphene.
31:00
Those two are isomers of each other.
31:03
Of those, HCG and Clomid or Zuclomiphene are both FDA approved.
31:09
HCG works pretty solid.
31:12
We use it for guys with fertility issues as well.
31:15
But it's an injection you have to take twice a week, and it's really expensive, like $300 a vial.
31:21
You need to go through about three or four vials a month.
31:24
So it's costly.
31:26
Uh, Clomit is a really nice option that we had probably about the last seven, eight years.
31:33
And it does a good job, but what we found out is that...
31:35
Clomid actually stimulates the estrogenic receptors just as much as it stimulates the androgenic receptors.
31:41
And so the side effect profile is a little bit higher.
31:43
So guys can have more nipple sensitivity, more brush tissue growth.
31:46
And then clomid also has about a 3% to 5% risk of blurred vision or narrow vision.
31:53
Inclomiphene came out.
31:54
It's not FDA approved.
31:56
But it has several head to head studies with Clomid and beats it in everything.
32:05
Efficacy, lower side effect profile, less than 1% risk of blurred vision and stimulates the androgenic receptor more than the estrogenic receptor.
32:15
So guys have less side effects.
32:18
So, and it's an oral, it's a pill, which is easier to take than injections.
32:22
So that's one of the medications that we use a lot in our office.
32:27
And it's like a GLP-1 versus a GLP-3, which has way less side effects.
32:31
Right.
32:32
You know, better cellular function, reticulitis seems to be winning the day.
32:36
You know me, I'm nature, you know, let's get it from nature if we can, you know, and
32:41
You know, our microbiome makes, you know, acromensia, it makes GLPs.
32:45
Like we, our bodies do all this stuff, but, uh, and, and I'm not boohooing.
32:50
I think, you know, I'm not boohooing what you do because this is, you're helping people.
32:53
Right.
32:53
But it's, it's interesting for me seeing these medical, uh, the need for it.
32:59
But then my, I'm like, God, if, if we just taught people to go out and start grounding and getting nature and morning sunlight and sleep patterns, uh,
33:06
And, you know, and that's the other things I spend more and more time in nature since over the last, you know, 15 years since I've, you know, yeah, I guess more than that last, yeah, 15 years that I've been on.
33:20
I've been on this health journey longer than that, 20 years.
33:23
And I was lowest when I was sickest.
33:24
I think it was like 400.
33:26
And then every time I've been measuring, it's getting higher and higher until the last time.
33:30
And my doctor was actually surprised.
33:32
And I'm like, well, I'm...
33:33
getting closer to nature.
33:35
I'm doing, I'm spending more time in nature.
33:36
I'm in the sunshine more.
33:37
I'm not wearing, I wear very little to no sunscreen.
33:41
I wear a hat to protect my face.
33:42
So, you know, I take my time.
33:44
I let my body adapt to the sun so that it adapts, right?
33:49
My feet have calluses.
33:50
They've adapted, you know, they can stand cold and hot because I let them adapt.
33:55
You know, the mitochondria increase because of the hormetic effect.
33:59
But most people can do that.
34:00
Right.
34:00
Right.
34:00
Yeah.
34:01
So I'm, I'm going to die on this.
34:04
This is where we need to get, you know.
34:06
Well, let me ask you a question.
34:07
What was the timeframe between your 400 and your 951?
34:11
My last, I probably had a two year period between my 7, 600 and my 951.
34:16
So I need to, I need to do it more.
34:20
So yeah, so you can do it.
34:21
It just takes a really long time to do it that way.
34:23
It does take a really long time.
34:24
And so I would love to implement some of the detox things that you're doing.
34:29
I'm actually going to try your detox starting tomorrow.
34:32
Just on myself, because I think it's, I think after talking to you, it's been, I think you can induce a dramatic change with that.
34:39
I think the combination of a lot of the lifestyle changes, the detoxification, plus some of the medications can help people get there a little bit faster.
34:49
Not rapidly, but at a fast enough pace where they can get benefits without side effects.
34:54
Because that's the whole thing you're talking about.
34:55
Do no harm.
34:56
Like you want to provide benefits, but you want to reduce side effects as much as you can.
35:00
Yeah, there's a time and place for medication.
35:02
Someone's suffering and their work life, their marriage is falling apart.
35:06
And you're like, well, we need to detox you for two years.
35:11
If you guys can do that hard road or if you can do some peptides potentially that are a little less evasive.
35:19
And does these peptide therapies, do they work to, because they're not really strong.
35:25
They can bump it a little bit, can't they?
35:27
They can, some of them can.
35:29
You look at things like, Kispeptin is a good one that kind of mimics the effects of Inclomavine and Clomid.
35:37
But again, you look at application, it's five injections a week.
35:44
It's a lot.
35:45
And people on Peptizing do a lot of Peptizing, so they're doing three, four, five injections a day.
35:51
it's a lot and it's hard to be consistent with that.
35:54
It is hard.
35:55
It's very hard.
35:56
It is hard.
35:56
And it, you know, and they're not being, again, the same problem.
36:00
They're watching, um, you know, everyone's peptides, peptides, but you have to reconstitute them gently.
36:07
These things are very delicate and you could not even get an effect and you bought $200 with a peptide vial and you're just jamming the water.
36:16
I mean, the, the factor static water in there and it's,
36:19
causing something that's going to cause oxidative stress and you're slamming it in the refrigerator and not realizing just that mild shaking is breaking this very sensitive peptide that could that may lead to cancer that may cause issues so they can't track it.
36:34
Like you can't track peptides and what they're doing.
36:37
It's very difficult to do.
36:38
And sourcing your peptides is important.
36:40
Like you were saying, a bacteriostatic water.
36:43
We do peptides in our office, but we only use like pharmacy grade.
36:46
That's already pre-mixed under a hood.
36:47
You know, it's sterile.
36:48
You know, it's clean.
36:49
You know where it came from.
36:50
And there's some good companies.
36:50
And there's definitely some good companies out there for sure.
36:55
And some of them can affect, you know, hormone issues as well.
36:59
Yeah.
36:59
Well, I know we need to go to dinner.
37:03
So, I do want to get this big question answered.
37:06
And I have seen in my friends that their testosterone seems to drop significantly post-vasectomy.
37:15
Am I, is this, am I N of five, you know, sampling?
37:20
Is it true?
37:21
Can it happen?
37:22
Because all their urologists said, no, it will not happen.
37:25
And I have to know, I have to ask somebody that's done 8,000 snips.
37:31
I tend to agree with the urologist because the big question is, did they have their testosterone checked before the vasectomy?
37:37
And how long ago was that?
37:38
Yeah, they could have been running low T beforehand.
37:41
That's what we find.
37:42
And, you know, that's why we check all these guys.
37:44
I'm like, look, because the crazy thing about guys is that as a guy,
37:50
Most guys feel like if you can get through your day, you're doing pretty good.
37:53
Your testosterone is probably all right.
37:54
Mm-hmm.
37:55
You know, but that's not the case at all.
37:58
Most guys have no idea how much better they could be feeling
38:02
if their testosterone were optimized, they just know like, oh, I'm 300.
38:07
This is good enough for me.
38:08
AUA says 400, 500 is optimal.
38:11
I'm fine.
38:12
My doctor told me it's normal.
38:14
And we just look at it completely differently.
38:16
I think what we've done that separates how we respond to people is
38:21
We've actually tracked symptoms based on testosterone number.
38:25
And we look at symptoms at 100, symptoms at 300, symptoms at 500, symptoms at 700, symptoms at 1,000.
38:33
We've tracked symptoms up to 1,500.
38:35
And that's why we can figure out where that optimal range is.
38:37
And we haven't seen that published anywhere else.
38:40
I mean, the problem with publishing is you have to have time to do it.
38:43
I just don't.
38:43
We have the data.
38:44
I just don't have the time to do it.
38:45
But we notice the trends.
38:48
And if you tell somebody, hey, your levels are 300, you know, what would you do if you could be three times more productive with your day?
38:55
What would you do if you had three times more energy?
38:57
If you had three times more focus?
38:59
How much more could you get accomplished?
39:01
Would that be something of interest to you?
39:03
And I mean...
39:04
I don't know a guy that would say no to that.
39:07
I wouldn't.
39:08
And so you look at a lot of guys and you're like, well, what's your level?
39:11
And what's your symptoms?
39:12
And we have a, and I'll close this down, but the traditional, you know.
39:17
I do have one more question.
39:18
I want to talk microplastics in the testicles.
39:21
Okay, cool, cool, cool.
39:21
We can just do that.
39:23
Let's go there.
39:26
And I love that you're doing it right.
39:27
You care about the patient and you're helping men come back online and re-embodying and having energy, being better fathers and working.
39:36
My path, just so everyone knows, it's like I want to take that person and get them reconnected to nature so they don't need it anymore.
39:42
It would always be my goal.
39:44
That's my mission.
39:46
So we're going to do some cool things together.
39:48
We're going to run some studies together.
39:50
I love it.
39:52
And see if we can help fertility issues and support that.
39:56
See if we can help get hormone receptors more sensitive again.
40:01
And we'll look at the data.
40:03
And the data is the data.
40:04
The numbers are the numbers.
40:05
The numbers are the numbers.
40:06
And if it works, we'll talk about that.
40:08
I'd love that.
40:09
So yeah, plastics in the testes.
40:11
What's going on with microplastics and fertility?
40:14
There's a lot of research here.
40:16
Yeah.
40:17
The research is showing that microplastics are prevalent in testicular tissue.
40:21
And that may be a big part of the fertility issues that we're seeing today.
40:25
I mean, I'm seeing more fertility, you know, clients than are more infertility clients than I've seen before.
40:31
I mean, it's just high and it's, you know, and younger and younger guys still.
40:36
And the same issues, they come in with testosterone issues, they come in with fertility issues.
40:39
And it's a microplastic thing.
40:41
I think it plays a big part into it.
40:43
Yeah, the literature's getting more and more replete with the microplastics.
40:49
And for our audience, it's not just the plastic alone that causes this foreign particle that's embedding in tissue.
40:57
It's causing inflammation.
40:59
You know, there's the one study that's crazy for a male contraceptive, and they used the polyester sling, and it was 100% effective.
41:08
Yeah.
41:10
And the mechanism of action is it literally, not only does the fabric cause oxidative stress, but it messes with the frequency, they believe, in the signaling.
41:22
Maybe it's the luteinizing hormone or whatever.
41:25
They didn't get to that detail, but that was one of their...
41:28
their thesis it's the it's the fake plastic putting off the wrong frequency that that drops the testosterone in the fertility and so it's you know another's whole this whole movement you know nads underwear like i used to you know i'm one of their poster childs but because i want people putting natural fabrics back on their body and um so there's these interesting you're wearing polyester underwear and
41:51
So make sure we tell your clients if they're having hormone issues, don't forget that.
41:56
I'll give you the study.
41:57
And they also did it on female male dogs 100% with the plastic fabric.
42:03
So really strong evidence for that.
42:06
Now, is it the only thing?
42:07
No, right?
42:08
It's not the only thing.
42:10
But it's just interesting that this push towards polyester cheap petroleum-based fabric has led to...
42:19
There's a link there, right?
42:21
So that's interesting as well.
42:23
So microplastics, the neat thing is, is there's testing for it now.
42:27
I'll even throw a link below.
42:29
I have a, I don't know the name of the testing, but we can test for microplastics.
42:34
You can test it for in blood and then in saliva now, and that's new.
42:37
I think Brian Johnson, Mr. Longevity guy, he was the one that he was the first to work with this lab that's in Europe somewhere to bring the microplastics.
42:49
And what they're really doing is they're just looking.
42:52
It's down to one millimeter or...
42:55
Is it one millimeter?
42:56
I believe so.
42:57
So it's more in the microplastic range, not the nanoplastics.
43:01
And for every microplastics, there's anywhere between 100 and 1,000 nanoplastics in your body as well, likely.
43:09
So if this is a glass of water with plastic in it and you found five microplastics, there's likely 500 to 5,000 nanoplastics, which can cross cellular membranes, which you're getting down into the nano size.
43:25
And what these chemicals that are inside of them, they have phthalates and other hormone disrupting chemicals.
43:30
And as they break down in your body, they're like little carriers for these chemicals.
43:35
And, you know, we know that phthalates are highly hormone disruptive for testosterone.
43:39
So it'll be cool to see, you know, run some toxicity tests.
43:44
Yeah, I'm excited.
43:45
I want to do one.
43:46
Yeah.
43:46
So, and it's great.
43:47
You're a medical doctor.
43:48
You can actually do all these beautiful testing and really see, let's do that stuff.
43:53
Let's clean you up.
43:53
Let's do it before and after.
43:55
I would love that.
43:56
I love being a guinea pig.
43:57
I try a lot of things before I, you know, start offering it to my clients just because I want to be able to give them real world, you know, perspective on, you know, what they're doing.
44:17
Same.
44:17
I know it's always the same because we have our dosing down.
44:22
Is that why you look so young?
44:25
I hope so.
44:27
Well, I think the difference is that I would never go back to how I was feeling.
44:31
Like before I was at 372, there's no way I can go back.
44:35
There's just no way.
44:36
I'd never trade it.
44:38
Well, there's something to be said for that is that now once you take a medication and you tell your patients, especially younger ones, and you've told me this off camera, that, look, you're 25 years old and you want to get on TRT, really?
44:50
That means how expensive that's going to be.
44:52
You're on that likely for the rest of your life.
44:55
And so if you're going to make a decision like that, let's put it off until your testicles don't make testosterone anymore if you can.
45:02
And let's work on these other things.
45:03
And I like that.
45:04
Well, you have a, like my first met, I just loved your heart.
45:08
Thank you.
45:08
Yeah, I think the longer we can keep guys producing their own testosterone, the better.
45:15
Like you said, let's save the TRT for when you absolutely need it, when your testicles just stop making it.
45:21
But until then, find a way to make it.
45:24
There's always a better way.
45:25
Find a way to make it.
45:26
Yeah, I was really nervous.
45:28
My Dutch test said that I had zero testosterone, like one.
45:31
And normal range on that test is like, I think the low end was like 13.
45:36
But I just don't urinate out testosterone for the measure.
45:40
And I'm like, if I was that low when I was talking to the medical doctor, Dr. Randy, who ran the test...
45:46
I'm like, I wouldn't be doing this.
45:47
I wouldn't have any confidence.
45:49
Like, so something must be wrong.
45:51
And of course, you know, I was fine.
45:53
But I love what you're doing, man.
45:55
I love that you help people.
45:56
I love that you're open minded to explore something that's you didn't learn in medical school, look in microplastics, the detoxification of heavy metals and to honor the work that we're doing.
46:08
And to at least try it and see how it can help people.
46:11
Yeah, man, we preach lifestyle changes as well.
46:15
I mean, but that means you've gotta be willing to do the lifestyle changes.
46:18
And so detoxing and fitness and all the other stuff is a part of that.
46:23
Yeah, exercise ramps up testosterone.
46:26
It's almost like a natural antidepressant with some of the things you have, you store hormones and muscles.
46:32
Like it's, we have this beautiful system that we're just cracking the surface of learning and understanding.
46:38
And then we have to respect the body.
46:40
I think that's really important to respect the innate intelligence of the body and not try to force things on it, but work with it the best we can in the circumstances that each individual is in and try to just get them a better life and then keep progressing them ultimately to non-toxic living.
46:55
But that doesn't always work out.
46:57
Yeah.
46:58
Yeah, that would be awesome.
46:59
So I appreciate you, man.
47:01
Appreciate your time.
47:02
I'm going to bring you back on.
47:04
I would love that after I finished my detox so we can see the before and after.
47:07
I love that.
47:08
Share the data.
47:08
So if people want to find you, ask you questions, how can I do that?
47:12
Yeah.
47:13
Um, you can find me at, uh, drhowardobert.com is a good place.
47:17
Our, uh, our clinic is actually called Pazona MD.
47:20
So P-A-Z-O-N-A, O-N-D.
47:23
I mean, sorry, P-A-Z-O-N-A-M-D.com.
47:26
Beautiful.
47:27
And how do you spell your last name?
47:29
Uh, last name is A-U-B-E-R-T.
47:31
So it's, yeah, D-R-H-O-W-A-R-D-A-U-B-E-R-T.com.
47:36
Beautiful, man.
47:38
Let's go have some dinner together and let's shake it up.
47:40
Thanks again for being here.
47:41
It's my pleasure.
47:42
Peace.
47:43
Peace.