Latest / The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast / #16: Gill1918 presents Josh Miller "Working with Youth Throwers Age 8-14"

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#16: Gill1918 presents Josh Miller "Working with Youth Throwers Age 8-14" · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

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Welcome to the Gill 1918 Project, a podcast series by
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coaches, for coaches, powered by Gill Athletics.
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Think of this as the Ted Talks of track and field coaching.
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Short, insightful, and packed with valuable strategies to help
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you grow as a coach. We're bringing the once a year
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track clinic straight to your ears daily.
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Interested in creating your own episode?
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Everyone's welcome to participate.
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Check out the show notes below For more information.
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Now let's get into today's topic.
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Hello, my name is Josh Miller. I am currently a youth club
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track and field throws coach with the Kansas City Fire Track
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Club or KC Fire Track Club based in Liberty, MO.
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I started off my coaching career as an NJC AA throws coach at
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Hutchinson Community College in Kansas.
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Did that for a couple years and then I moved to the NAIA and
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coached at Sterling College, also in Kansas, for about 3 more
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years before I moved on to the high school level and coached
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for a few years at Hutchison High School.
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Long story short, I briefly left coaching until I got into my
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current role and found that youth coaching may be my perfect
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fit. I am thrilled to have you all
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tune in here and hope that if you are a new coach or are new
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to coaching the throws, you are stepping into the exciting world
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of the throwing events. We're going to dive into
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coaching young athletes in the throwing events.
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So whether you're a youth club coach like me or a middle school
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coach new to the throws, don't worry if you've never tossed a
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shot put. It's all good.
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One thing to keep in mind, our young athletes aren't many
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versions of Olympians. They're growing, learning and
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developing, and what they can do today isn't the same as what
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older, more experienced athletes can handle.
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Our job is to meet them where they are, build their skills
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step by step, and set them up for success both now and down
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the road. And today's episode is all about
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coaching young throwers, introducing those shot put,
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discus, and maybe even javelin kids ages 8 to 14 who are brand
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new to the events. So if you're a youth club coach
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for a middle school coach working with 7th and 8th
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graders, this one's for you, especially if you've got little
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to no experience with the throws.
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We're going to cover the essentials, keeping it safe,
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drawing their skills and making it fun so they stick around.
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All right, before we get into the fun stuff, let's talk about
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the absolute must do's, the non negotiables, safety, the rules
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and getting the right gear. If you're new to this, trust me,
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this is where you start. Safety is non negotiable,
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especially with throwing. I mean, you got some dangerous
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implements right there. So imagine a bunch of 10 year
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olds swinging around shot puts. Yeah, you've got to get some
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ground rules set fast. Rule one that I give every day
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to my throwers like a broken record, even late to the season.
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Keep your head up, be aware of what is around you at practices,
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at meets. You just got to be aware of
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what's happening around you as a coach.
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Supervise like it's your job, because it is.
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Accidents happen quick with beginners, so stay sharp.
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Establish some form to your practice and always cover rule
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expectations of what to do, what not to do, not only what is
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happening at practice, but what also they'll see it meets
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control the controllables. Up next, know the competition
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rules. You don't need to memorize the
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whole USA Track and Field Handbook, though it is a great
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resource. Just check it out at usatf.org.
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But get the basics down. What's a legal through?
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What's a foul? How to teach form so they don't
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get DQ D at their first meet? Nothing can be more devastating
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for a young thrower than get DQ D at their first meet.
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You know that's failure to launch.
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You know before they even get going, they've already had some
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major failure. They're not going to want to
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keep doing it. And it's less intimidating than
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it sounds, I promise. You need to make it commonplace
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at practice. Also make sure to coach your
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kids in what if scenarios such as you're at a meet that the
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official makes a change to some structure of the event.
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How does your athlete handle that change?
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And then you want to practice them in practice.
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Or if you're unable to anticipate those changes once it
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happens in a meet, then you want to talk about what was you want
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to talk about at your next practice.
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What did you learn from that experience and then how can you
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grow from it? Like a great example of that.
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And I've seen this at the youth club level.
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I've seen this at the middle school level.
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I've seen this at the high school level.
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And I'm pretty sure I've seen it at a couple college meets.
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You get to a meet and the official says, hey, you have to
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enter and exit out the back of the ring.
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Even though the rule is they can enter into the circle from
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anywhere they want, but they just have to exit out the back
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half of the ring. And I can't tell you how many
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kids get so used to always entering in from wherever they
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want at the minute that they get a throw scratched because the
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official is establishing that that change.
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They're just devastated and then they throw horribly.
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So you want to anticipate those. And then as a coach, how do you
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handle that? You definitely don't want to
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talk down about the official. You don't want to talk about
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crap to the official. You don't want to have a
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discussion with the official, Hey, you know, that's, you know,
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I don't know why you're establishing that rule because
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they're going to be very safe practices that they're trying to
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establish, especially when you're dealing with the younger
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kids that maybe they're doing that for a reason.
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You know, I, I want all the 8 and under throwers to be
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standing back here behind the ring because I don't want anyone
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to get hit. And so to establish that I'm
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forcing all of them to enter the back of the ring and exit the
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back of the ring. So that way they just stay back
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there. You know, that makes sense.
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So your throwers have to understand that those changes
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can happen and they're outside of their control.
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And what do you do as a coach to practice those things?
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And so that way it's, it's not going to matter.
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You know, at the end of the day, hey, that doesn't matter that
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they made that change. I'm still going to go out and do
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what I do now. For the implements, the tools of
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the trade, you've got to match the size to the age or you're
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setting up kids for frustration or worse, injury.
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I have been to a lot of meets where I have seen kids throwing
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the wrong size of implement. Even going up into high school,
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I've seen kids throwing shop puts that are too heavy.
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And I've also seen the opposite where they're throwing stuff
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that's too light and they're getting away with it.
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But you got to make sure that your kids are throwing with the
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right implement for their age group.
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So for 8 and under it can be a little confusing between USATF
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and AAU rules. US ATF8 and under throw a 2K or
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four point little over 4.4 LB shot put.
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Whereas in AAU they throw a 4 LB shot put so it can be right on 4
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lbs. Now for shot from 9:00 to 12:00
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in both USA track and Field and AAU, they're throwing a 6 LB
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shot at the age of 13. Boys will start throwing a 4K
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and girls will keep throwing a 6 LB shot until they reach 15 or
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freshman in high school. Well where they will start
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throwing the 4K and boys starting as freshmen are 15 will
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start throwing the £12 in high school which then if they're
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doing club track in the summertime, depending on when
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their birthday is, is a matter of when they're actually going
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to throw the heavier implement or they can still get away with
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throwing the lighter implement. One last thing for shot put,
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from a safety perspective it doesn't matter the age, your
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shot putters should be wearing a wrist strap.
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I myself never wore a wrist trap until it was too late and I
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found I had ligament damage in my throwing hand while throwing
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in college so I never wore one. I thought using tape or wrist
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traps, you know, was uncomfortable and so I just
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didn't want to do it. Well the ligament damage I
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developed to my throwing hand in college made me double think
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that. So every kid that I coach, no
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matter what their age is, I introduced them to wrist traps.
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Now you can get wrist traps pretty cheap, especially for the
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younger athletes. And as they get older, you'll
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probably want to get, and they get heavier implements.
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They probably want to get something a little bit more
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heavier duty or something that's wrapping a little bit more.
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But starting them off, they definitely need something,
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especially as they're growing. You don't want them to develop
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ligament damage, mess with their growth plates or any of that.
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You don't want them to get injured.
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Something is better than nothing as far as a wrist strap is
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concerned. Moving on to discus, USATF and
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AAU do not allow youth to start throwing until age 11 and both
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boys and girls will start with 1K the the 1K disc.
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That doesn't mean the athletes that are younger can't start
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working on discus in practice. They do also make and sell
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discuses that are .75 kilograms, .6 kilograms, and .5 kilograms
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that smaller younger athletes can throw.
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And they're great so that they can Start learning how to hold
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and throw the discus in practice.
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You may even run across the meats that may allow discus to
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be thrown by younger athletes. And I absolutely love
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discovering those track meets. So my younger athletes can get
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some of those throws in with the discus to see where they're at.
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Girls stay with the 1K as they get older and boys will
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transition to the 1.6 K at 15 going into high school for turbo
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jab. So for clubs all over the
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country they get to throw turbo jab or arrow jabs.
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Depending on your state, they may allow middle school kids to
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start start throwing javelin and very they're still.
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Thankfully there's more and more states picking up high school
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javelin so hopefully this trend keeps happening.
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But for turbo jab, again USATF and AAU have some different
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standards. For AAU 8 and under throw a 300
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gram turbo javelin. 9 to 12 years old throw 400 gram turbo
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jabs and 13 to 14 year olds transition to the standard
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javelin. 600 grams for both boys and girls and then 15 to 18 year
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olds move up to the 800 grams for boys and 600 grams for
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girls. Standard javelins for USATF 8
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and under through. Age 10 throw the 300 gram turbo
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javelin the 11:00 to 12:00 through.
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Or I should go back on there in 2026 the 250g arrow javelin is
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going to take over for 9 to 10 year old 10 year olds and they
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will. They will no longer throw the
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300 gram turbo javelin and USATF 11 to 12 throw the 450g arrow
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javelin. And then the older throwers are
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the same as the AAU standards. So for schools, it really
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depends on your state rules, so make sure you check those out
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specifically for shot, discus and javelin.
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Obviously one day I hope every state offers javelin.
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And an even bigger dream I have is that one day every state will
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get hammer going because I really have a passion for
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hammer. I love hammer.
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So the next question is where do you get this stuff?
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One of the questions I hear from parents a lot, or even from
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coaches at developmental youth meets, is they're struggling to
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find shoplifts, especially for those younger kids.
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Where do I find the 2K shot if we're at a USATF meet?
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Or where do I find a 4 LB shot for at an AAU meet?
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They don't. They're kind of hard to find.
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You just can't go to Amazon and try to find that.
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You might have some luck by hitting up national sporting
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goods chain stores, or you might have some luck at local mom and
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pop sporting goods stores. Probably more or less.
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You're probably going to definitely find a 6 LB or a 4K
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or a 12 LB at something like that.
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Or go online verse athletics.com, MF athletic,
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everythingtrackandfield.com or sometimes you can get lucky on
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Amazon if you search youth throwing equipment.
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My personal favorite for outdoor shop puts, especially finding
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the lighter weight 4 LB or 2K shot is verse athletics and for
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indoor shots, dominator athletics.
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I just absolutely love dominator dominator athletics indoor shots
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and they're really easy to find those smaller, smaller weights
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on their websites. So now we're going to move into
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how do kids actually learn to throw?
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And it's all about development. Don't worry, it's simpler than
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it sounds. Kids 8 to 14 fall into the
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fundamentals and training to train stages of long term
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athletic development or LTAD. From 8:00 to 11:00 you need to
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focus on basic movement, running, jumping, tossing,
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stuff. You're building athletes at that
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stage. By 12 to 14 coordination
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improves so you can introduce a shot put, glide or spin basics.
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I also think younger kids can start drills that will set them
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up for full throws later on as they get older, more mature and
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they grow. And growth isn't just about age,
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it's bodies and minds. Kids at this age vary widely.
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An 11 year old might be 4 foot 5 and wobbly while another's 5
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foot 6 and sprouting fast. Taller kids might get more
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leverage, but shorter ones shine with technique.
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Maturity is a factor. Some 12 year olds handle
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feedback like keep your hips back while others just need push
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it hard. So you need to watch their
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coordination and confidence to gauge their readiness on where
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they're at and their progression.
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Even the young young kids like a small 9 year old might ace a
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standing throw with a light shot put while a lanky 13 year old
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could glide if their strengths there.
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But if their strengths not there, they probably shouldn't
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be working on glide. You probably should be doing a
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little bit more strength development in their legs, so
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just adjust accordingly. Lighter gear for late bloomers,
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more reps for fast growers, and always prioritize effort over
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distance. You don't want to be in practice
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and you let's say you have two 12 year olds, one can throw 30
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feet and the other one can throw 10 feet.
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You don't want to sit there and praise the kid throwing 30 feet
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because that's going to make the kid throwing 10 feet like he
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can't or they can't do much. You want to praise that kid
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that's only able to throw 10 feet, you know, praise them for
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their effort. Hey, I'm glad you're here every
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day. I'm glad you're working hard.
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As you develop, you're going to get better and you're going to
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progress. That's what they need to be
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hearing, and there's so many different ways to communicate
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that. Physically, you got to remember
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they're still growing bones, muscles, everything.
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So don't rush. Number one thing is I stay.
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I start with standing throws before I ever try to get a kid
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into a spin or a glide. And that doesn't matter what age
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I'm starting them off at. If they're brand new to throws,
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we're spending some time on the standing throw because I want
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their power position to be correct.
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I want their how they hold the implement to be correct and I
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want their release to be correct.
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And that's going to differ based on their age range too, on how I
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approach that. Mastery builds confidence.
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So especially for younger kids still figuring out their motor
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skills, you need to introduce basics, then you can refine
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them, and then you can layer in complexity as they get it.
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You don't want to throw complexity at them before they
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even, you know, grasp basic concepts of it, which then
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mentally keep it positive, reinforce with like great job.
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Keep your elbow up. That goes a lot further than you
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think. So just remember progress slowly
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and they'll grow into it naturally.
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For strength development, keep it simple.
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Ages 8:00 to 11:00. They probably need to stick to
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body weight exercises such as squats, push ups, lunges at age
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12 to 14 depending on where their athletic and skill level
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is. You can start adding light
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resistance like bands and medicine balls.
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No heavy weights though. Got to remember those growth
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plates are still forming and we're not risking that.
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Or if you do think they can handle some lifting, they should
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be very closely monitored. You should focus on lifting
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technique and if they do lift, keep the weight very light with
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higher repetitions and focus on form.
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Build the base for their strength training letter later
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on, so when they really start to push to get stronger later on as
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they physically mature, they're going to have the proper
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technique that's already been built in when they were younger.
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So that should probably be the main focus there.
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And it's all about breaking their exercises into different
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levels, like level 1, you know, just some general stuff or
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general physical preparedness for ages. 8:00 to 11:00.
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This is fun broad activities. Think medicine ball tosses,
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sprints, jumping drills. It's all about being an athlete
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first. Level 2 is a little bit more
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specialized preparatory exercises.
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So around ages 11:50 they can start mimicking more throwing
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motions without the real gear. They can start doing arm swings,
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ball pushes, that sort of thing. And then here's where it gets
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fun for all ages, in my opinion. You can throw other stuff.
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Weighted softballs, regular softballs, St. cones, bowling
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pins, pipes, weighted pipes of varying sizes, pool noodles or
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hula hoops. Toss or push a softball to work
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on arm action. Throw a hula hoop out over a
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cone to fill the discus. Throw technique.
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You know, getting them to turn their their hip into the throw,
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or they could Chuck a cone at a target for release timing.
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It's a variety that builds skills and keeps them smiling.
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Plus, they're safe. Well, depending on what you got
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and how you're doing it. But for the most part, they're
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safe, light, and they tie into the throwing mechanics without
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overwhelming the kids. Level 3 specific exercises.
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So by the time that they're 12 to 14, they're ready for the
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real deal. You're going to start refining
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their technique. However, if they have never
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thrown before. So you get those 7th or 8th
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graders that have nothing, you know, they never did club track
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at an early age. You're getting them for the
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first time. You want to go back and you want
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to kind of go back over those levels again, you know, But they
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can probably go through them a little bit faster since they're
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a little bit more older in age and a little bit more mentally
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and physically mature. So they'll go through the stages
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a little bit faster than the younger kids will.
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Just remember you got to start them off slow and then watch and
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judge how they're they're going. The system works because it's
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gradual and it leads to no burnout, no injuries, and just a
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steady progress. Match the level to their age and
22:44
ability in your golden encouragement is the secret
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sauce. That's what kind of binds all
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that together. Turn drills into games like shot
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put, target toss where they aim at cones or discus distance
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challenge to see who can throw the furthest from a standing
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throw or who can bowl discus bowl the furthest.
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You know, get to go the straightest and roll the
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furthest and then you're just going to celebrate every game.
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Hey, you threw 2 inches more today.
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That's awesome. If you have bigger groups, let's
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say you have a lot of kids and I know junior high coaches.
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This is probably the case because I own a lot of junior
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highs. They don't have other spring
23:28
sports that they can get into. So you usually get way more kids
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out, so you get way more kids that you got to herd.
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So the big thing there is stations are your friend.
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Rotate kids through throwing drills and games.
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It could be 5 to 10 minutes or longer based on how long your
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practice sessions are. And if you need helpers,
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especially if you're in a, a youth club group, you can take
24:02
those older kids like the 13 and 14 year olds and partner them
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with the younger ones so that they can kind of mentor them.
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But make sure that the big thing here is you're setting those
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clear rules, especially if you're going to partner younger
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kids with, again, older but younger kids, you got to set
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clear rules and expectations for what they're doing.
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So that way there's some guidelines there like 1 thrower
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at a time, everyone else cheers or another group will reset the
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drill or the game. You know you got to keep that
24:41
structure there. Fun plus structure equals kids
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who can't wait for the next practice.
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It's not fun to be at an unstructured practice with a
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coach who isn't communicating. That's where everything falls
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apart. You got to keep communicating
24:56
and keep things fun and structured.
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So like a typical practice could look like you start with a 10
25:03
minute warm up, dynamic stretches.
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Then you run a short little relay game with a light medicine
25:11
ball of some sort. Then you spend 20 minutes on
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skills so you can break it down. The 8 to 11 year olds, they go
25:21
work on standing throws with like soft shot puts or weighted
25:25
softballs, while the 12 to 14 year olds, they're working on a
25:30
step back approach or they're doing some glide drills.
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And then you get them all back together.
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And then you split them up into small groups of like three to
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four kids and they start doing some station work.
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Like one group tosses a mid ball, another group throws or a
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third group, if you've got that many kids or more, you know,
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they're doing a coordination game like hula hoop tossing.
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And then once they're done with those stations and they've
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rotated through those stations, you can bring them all back
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together to do a cool down. You know, 10 minutes of static
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stretching. And as they're stretching,
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you're just walking around saying, hey, give me a highlight
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of the day. Let the kids shout out what they
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loved or hated and just take notes of what the feedback is
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that they're giving you during that time.
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And they can have a lot of fun with that.
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Final tips, just remember, be patient.
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Effort beats distance at this age.
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Be positive. Praise builds confidence.
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Be creative. Be creative with those drills
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and those games. Look at what if you're a newer
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coach and you're just learning about the throws as you're
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diving into your own education of what it takes to throw
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something and you're watching videos and you're seeing, OK,
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well, my, my young athletes not doing what they're doing.
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What kind of drills do I need to get them to be closer to that?
27:01
And don't get lost in those weeds.
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You got to remember if you're watching Joe Kovacs or Ryan
27:06
Crowser throw, your 13 year old kid that's throwing shot put for
27:13
the first time is not those guys who have been doing it for a
27:18
long time and are at the top of their game.
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But you can watch to kind of get some reflection of, OK, here are
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things that people are saying they're doing well, I need to
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develop that into my thrower and Start learning about those
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things. Don't just say, hey, you need to
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do this because they're doing it.
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Hey, you need to do this because biomechanically this will
27:44
produce a thrower, a farther throw.
27:48
Like, there's got to be a rhyme to the reason of what they're
27:51
doing. Don't just see a coach doing a
27:54
drill and go, well, that coach is being successful and I see
27:59
his kids doing this drill. So my kids are going to start
28:03
doing this drill. OK, but why is that coach's
28:07
athletes doing that drill? Maybe you need to go have a
28:10
conversation with that coach. And one thing I learned as a
28:14
coach early on is don't be afraid to go talk to coaches.
28:17
If you see a coach doing something, go ask them the why
28:22
and then steal it. But find out exactly what
28:25
they're doing and why they're doing it first before you steal
28:28
it. And most of the drills and stuff
28:31
I have, I've stolen from some really awesome coaches, but I
28:36
had to go learn what those drills did because there's so
28:41
many drills out there that you don't necessarily have to have
28:46
your kid do all of them, but there might be specific ones for
28:50
that kid that might make more sense.
28:56
And as always, final note here, always keep safety 1st every
29:02
time. It doesn't matter what you're
29:04
doing, safety needs to be top of mind.
29:07
All right, if you need more rules or information, make sure
29:13
you hit up usatf.org or AAU website to stay up to date on
29:18
the rules. Go to YouTube, go to Instagram,
29:22
go to TikTok. There's some other really cool
29:25
websites out there like Thrower X where you can find demos and
29:30
drills and other information. Go hit those things up.
29:34
Go get yourself involved in a coaching education course,
29:39
especially a throws coach education course.
29:42
Go get that information. Go learn.
29:47
If you're a middle school coach, go talk to your high school
29:49
coach. Have that good communication and
29:53
partnership with your high school because you're feeding
29:57
into their program. I try to, as a youth club coach,
30:01
I try to have a really good communication and partnership
30:06
with all of my local high school coaches or middle school
30:09
coaches. If I get to know who they are, I
30:12
want to have a good relationship with them because the kids that
30:17
I coach are going to feed into their programs.
30:20
And even some of the high school kids that I coach at the club
30:23
level. I want to know what those high
30:26
school coaches are working on with them so that when that way,
30:31
when I get them in the fall, in the winter or summertime when
30:35
they're out of season, I want to know what their coach has been
30:39
working on with them and what I need to be working on with them.
30:43
And I don't want to go step on their toes.
30:45
I want to have that good communication with them so that
30:47
way that coach is getting the most out of that kid.
30:52
And I even do have a couple high school coaches that send kids to
30:55
me because it's they've realized the benefits and how it's
31:00
helping them out. Because even if you have a kid
31:04
as a high school coach, you have a kid that's on JV.
31:07
Well, eventually that kid might feed into your varsity, but as a
31:12
coach, even at the high school level, it could be very
31:15
difficult to work with and really put in time and effort to
31:22
all these kids, especially when you're a full time teacher.
31:26
So it's, I mean, it's very difficult.
31:27
So why not send in, send that kid, that guy or girl, send them
31:32
to a club coach to get a little bit more fine tuning and
31:36
detailed work in the offseason. Why not do that?
31:40
And then when you get them, hey, they just progressed a whole
31:44
bunch, now I can fine tune wherever they're at.
31:48
It means basically it's using the same concepts.
31:50
You're just taking them that athlete wherever they're at and
31:53
that's what you're working on and developing and you're just
31:57
giving them over to another coach to figure that out.
32:00
And then when your coaches are working together, it's
32:02
absolutely fantastic. So even as a middle school
32:04
coach, work with that high school coach, work with your
32:06
local club coaches, build that up.
32:12
And as far as videos, I especially if you're just
32:14
starting off on how I would focus on videos on how to hold
32:19
the implement, how to get into a power position with whatever
32:24
event. And then how to do a standing
32:27
throw because a standing throw, I mean, say it's pouring rain or
32:33
you're on a grass javelin runway and you cannot do a run up
32:37
because it is just a muddy mess. You might just want to learn how
32:41
to do a standing throw just to get a good mark because you got
32:44
to remember that's a controllable well, you can't
32:47
control the the weather, but you can control how your athlete
32:51
handles that weather. And if they're doing a standing
32:55
throw just to get a good mark, they might do better than that
32:59
kid that keeps trying to do a spin or the kid doing a run up
33:01
on a muddy grass javelin runway and they're slipping and sliding
33:06
everywhere and they're not getting any kind of distance.
33:09
Whereas hey, I'm going to do a standing throw.
33:11
I'm going to get a good throw out there because I know how to
33:14
do a proper good power position standing throw.
33:18
And lastly, as a coach, you're not just teaching throws, you're
33:22
shaping athletes and character. That's the gig and it's pretty
33:26
darn cool. So that's all I got for today.
33:29
Coaches, if you have questions about safety, weird throwing
33:34
objects, or let's say you have ideas for weird throwing objects
33:38
that you're using or you just need more ideas on how to keep
33:43
kids hooked, e-mail me at coachjoshmiller73@gmail.com or
33:51
check me out on Instagram at Throws Coach Miller.
33:55
Or you can find me on X at Coach Josh Miller.
34:01
Thanks for tuning in. You're the future of this sport
34:04
and those kids are lucky to have you.
34:08
Hey gang, Mike Cunningham here. Hey, I hope you enjoyed this
34:11
episode of the Guild 1918 Project series.
34:15
It's really my mission, my passion to bring you massive
34:18
amounts of value and I hope this one hit the mark.
34:21
The Gill 1918 Project is really dependent on you if for you to
34:26
build your own episode, to hear your voice, to have your voice
34:30
heard you have something to say and teach other coaches out
34:33
there. So please get a hold of me,
34:35
E-mail, text message, Twitter, smoke signals, get a hold of me
34:40
and let's help create your episode of the Guild 1918
34:43
Project. Hope you enjoy the day, they
34:45
will see you tomorrow.