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Out of Isolation and Into Community: White Collar Conference October 19 · Nightmare Success In and Out

• 0:01
  What happens when your worst fear becomes your reality?
• 0:04
  Hi, I'm Brent Cassidy, welcome to the Nightmare Success In and
• 0:07
  Out podcast where we explore how to overcome your fears and
• 0:11
  nightmares that set yourself free.
• 0:13
  We're going to be exploring this topic with guys that was in
• 0:16
  Leavenworth with and others who survived their own nightmare.
• 0:20
  These stories can be inspiring, sometimes sad, there's some
• 0:24
  humor, but hopefully you can come away with a nugget of
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  something that'll help you knock down some of the prisons you
• 0:30
  built up in your own mind. All right, welcome back
• 0:35
  nightmare success and listeners. It's where you come from.
• 0:38
  What happens when your worst fear becomes your reality?
• 0:40
  How do you adapt, survive, overcome?
• 0:42
  Set yourself free. Don't forget to follow,
• 0:45
  subscribe, share, like comment. It just helps the show.
• 0:49
  Just don't, just don't sit there.
• 0:51
  Do some stuff. OK folks, today, this is a
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  special bonus edition. I've got some nightmare success
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  alums here and we're here to talk about today, the upcoming
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  White Collar Conference. It's October 19th, 9:00 AM
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  Eastern Standard Time. Who do I have with me today?
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  Well, I've got some white collar guys that are friends of mine.
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  We all hang out together. So I've got Jeff Grant for those
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  who are playing the the game at home.
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  He was episode 78, incredible story.
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  He's the founder of the White Collar Support Group.
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  It's called Progressive Prison Ministries also, and he's an
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  ordained minister. He's an attorney at law that
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  we're so proud of with the Grant law.
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  And I've got Bill Lavosi, who is Episode 84 for those playing the
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  game, and he's the deputy director of Progressive,
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  Progressive Prison Ministries, White Collar Support Group.
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  He's also a certified life coach if anybody out there is needing
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  that, and he's a good one. So let's jump into this guys.
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  Welcome. Thank you.
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  We're here. We're here to give you some
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  Nuggets. Some Nuggets of wisdom.
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  Some some Nuggets and and what we agreed to in advance, OK in
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  our in our in our prep for this is that we were going to plug
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  the white collar conference right up front.
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  So let me for. The quick listeners.
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  So anyone who's going to log off fast, here we go, right?
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  White Collar Conference 2024. It's on October 19th at 9:00 AM
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  Eastern, 6:00 AM Pacific, and it's on Zoom, so it's virtual
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  and it's going to be 3 hours of amazing content.
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  The first ever conference by White Collar Justice impacted
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  people, for White Collar Justice impacted people, and you can get
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  more information and register at White collarconference.com.
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  Now that's an easy one to remember, folks.
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  White collarconference.com and if you go there right now, you
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  can register and we have all kinds of panelists and videos
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  and all kinds of other things that are going to be happening,
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  which we will talk about a little later on in this podcast.
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  We will talk about that and it's, it's easy.
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  You go in there, you just click, you go, you register and it's,
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  it's going to be fun. We've got some great panelists.
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  But you know, before we get into talking about that, I think it's
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  interesting from the standpoint that this is the first white
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  collar conference created by white collar people.
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  Now, you know, it's spread out all over the place.
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  You know, the American Bar Association, all these people,
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  they'll pull these white collar people in and they'll say, hey,
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  this is you guys, you can have a little bit of space.
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  This is for us. This is this is what we are
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  creating for ourselves. And, and a little bit of
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  background though, Jeff, you, you've been doing this for a
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  while, you and Bill have been around a while doing this.
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  What? What got you into this space?
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  I'm pretty much the same thing that got you into your space,
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  Brent. I mean, I, I came back from
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  prison and I knew I didn't want anyone to have to go through
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  what I went through, my family went through.
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  And this was back kind of in the early days of, of Internet,
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  really. I mean, I, I'm back from prison
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  17 1/2 years. And, but when we first went
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  through it 2022 years ago, there was no information out there.
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  We were just, you know, we were just kind of suckers to the
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  system. I mean, anyone who's a white
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  collar person knows what I'm talking about, right?
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  Basically the you're, you're a slave to the system.
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  And So what we thought was if we could find a, a way or, or
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  create a platform for people to share information and share
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  their experiences and, and support one another, kind of
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  like in an, a, a meeting, but also share information.
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  Maybe we could tip the balance of power a couple of points and
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  a couple of points is huge in this space because you know,
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  when the, when the cards are stacked against us, like 100 to
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  0, even having 2 or 3% of the power is a lot.
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  And I, I think we've accomplished that because not
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  only do we share notes about what we're going through, but we
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  share information about lawyers, about judges, about the system,
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  about what's the, the best way to approach things.
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  And the proof has been in the pudding, not only because we've
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  had 425 meetings and we've been doing it for 8 1/2 years with
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  1100 members, but the data actually shows us that we've
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  been able to help people get better outcomes, better results.
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  And that's what we're in the business for.
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  And especially since it's free, it's all, it's all volunteer and
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  people like you and people like Bill and people like me, we've
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  been doing it for quite a while. For me, it's been, you know, 15
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  years or so, Bill, about 10. And we love what we do.
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  You know, we love people. We love people who are going
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  through these things and want to find a redemption story.
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  And as we say that the the hardest part of this is not
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  going to prison. The hardest part of it is having
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  a redemption story. Right.
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  And or come back story. Come back story, whatever that
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  is and you and you know, everybody's is different.
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  Yeah. And I I think, you know, I've
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  seen, you know, one of the things that that attracted me so
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  much to this and you and I met each other by.
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  I think it's Mike Morawski, who was a who was a guest on this
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  show and he said you got to talk to Jeff Grant with the white.
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  I said, what is the white collar support group?
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  And you know, is, is as you just said, Jeff, I wish I would have
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  found the white collar support group way before I found it, but
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  I'm so glad I found it because there's there's so many things.
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  And I think one of the things about white collar people, you
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  know, we, we are a category, whether we want to be or not.
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  We're part of this club. And you know, we have a hard
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  time coming to I need help. I need, I, I, I need help.
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  And, and, and because these are people that have been in control
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  or they've been in the CEO or they've been an entrepreneur,
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  they've been whatever. And that feeling of being in
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  isolation is not a, a good place to be.
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  And to be with people who have gone through experiences that
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  you've gone through that you don't feel like you're all on an
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  island by yourself, all by itself is a better situation for
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  you to just find that group. But the one you find that group,
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  like you said, Jeff, you've you, you get into discussions, not
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  just the the Monday night, but all around that happens because
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  you meet these people and and the UPS and the downs and the
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  victories and the losses and all those things that you go through
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  just because you are who you are as you've been through what
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  you've been through is, is part of what that support group is.
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  Bill, I think it's interesting because you, you and Jeff
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  created and have been around each other for all this time and
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  I think it was the first time. What was it like a few months
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  ago that you actually met each other in person?
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  That just shows you how people can be in this support group
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  and, and you guys actually got together for the first time.
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  Do you What did you think of him in person?
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  He was much taller than me and I'm not and I'm not that sure.
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  But hey, you know, no, Brent, you're right.
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  Because you know, I remember met met Jeff by phone and I was
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  early 2014. So here we are 10 years later
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  and it was this past May. And but I did want to circle
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  back to something that that you both were speaking about is
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  that, you know, in this kind of club that we don't want to be
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  in, we're also pray. And part of what drew me to the
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  this group was that it was not about these weren't this wasn't
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  transactional relationships. These are about helping yourself
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  and helping your neighbor in the broad sense change for the
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  better. OK.
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  And I really was attracted to the non transactional nature of
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  it. And to me that's what made all
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  the difference because you know, you can go out and hire people
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  to do stuff. But again, your prey, you are
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  being preyed on for, you know, the last cent you have in your
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  pocket to avoid what you think is going to be the worst thing
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  in the world. And what you find here is a
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  group of people that who have come out the other side or even
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  who are in the midst of it, but are looking towards their
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  future. They're planning their future.
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  They're looking to rebuild their families and their relationships
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  because of the decisions they made.
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  And it's. All relationship.
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  And that's yeah, well, I think it's about it, yeah.
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  And I think that's a big point. It's not just about the re entry
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  part. There's a lot of people that we
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  have on part of the group that are dealing with all the things
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  that happened before you go into a prison term and, and, but
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  that, that is also something that we can help with.
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  You know that that is, is there's so many steps that
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  happen before that happens. And then there's all those steps
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  that happen as you're getting ready to get out.
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  And then there's the steps that happen for the re entry part
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  that all those things are packaged into the white collar
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  support group. And I think it's important for
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  people to know that it's not, Oh, it's not for me.
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  I'm not done yet. No, it doesn't matter where you
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  are in the, in the space. It's just space for you.
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  Exactly. You know, Brent, I, I, I get
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  calls from people all the time. In fact, most of the people I
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  speak to, either as a lawyer or as, as a minister, as someone
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  who is, has founded the support group, They, they, they don't
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  know whether or not they want to join.
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  They're afraid to join. Maybe it's not for them.
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  They think they're doing so well, they've called up because
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  they need a job. Sometimes it's their family
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  members that call because the the person affected, most
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  affected themselves are in like fight, fight, flight or freeze
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  mode. And, but almost everybody is
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  either a business person or has been a business person and they
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  know that to become successful in business, you got a network.
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  And, and I tell them, look, if you've got a, if you've got a
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  network right now that's working for you, go for it, right?
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  But most people have become estranged from their networks.
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  So we just tell the point pretty simply.
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  Listen, we're your network until you get another one and.
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  That's such a great point, Jeff, because networking never goes
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  out of style, but you've got to have one.
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  And there's a lot of great, interesting people that are part
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  of our group that have a wealth of, of experience all around.
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  And, and you know, I guess that leads us into who do we have
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  that are going to be on these panels that are coming in?
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  It's unreal. I mean, it's, it's a rock star
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  lineup of people that are going to be a part of these three
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  panels we have. We want, we want to talk about
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  that. Oh yeah, for sure.
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  Let me let me tell you that and thank you, Brent, for being on,
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  on one or two of the committees that we put together.
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  Because the most important thing for us about doing this white
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  collar conference was that we treat ourselves with respect and
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  dignity and we put our best foot forward.
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  And, and that way we can, we can demand that other people do.
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  I mean, if we're not going to treat ourselves that way, then
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  what right do we have to expect anyone else to treat ourselves
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  that way? So, so we went out and we put
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  together really professional conferencing, professional
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  graphics, professional copywriting professional
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  everything to put our best foot foot forward.
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  And for those of you who've seen, seen it thus far on our
• 13:41
  mailing lists or probably in your show notes, we'll see that,
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  you know, we, we've done this right.
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  I mean, this is where, as, as you said, in the, you know, in,
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  in the outside of the, of the podcast here, the American Bar
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  Association does a white collar conference, the American, the
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  Association of Certified Fraud Examiners does a fraud
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  conference. And we want to be right up there
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  with these conferences, but from our own point of view.
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  So we got together and we, we tried to decide what the, what
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  the theme of the conference was going to be.
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  And ultimately we decided that the theme was going to be
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  starting over out of isolation and into community, because
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  that's what we've all go go through.
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  And for our first conference, we thought, you know, that's
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  something that's going to really reach out to people, to the 10s
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  of thousands of people who have been prosecuted for white collar
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  crimes or regulatory crimes. So Bill, you want, you want to
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  kind of take it from there and and start talking about some of
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  the panels and, and who are the panelists are?
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  Oh, sure. To your point, though, Jeff, I,
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  I think a lot of people when they, one of the realities that
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  they have to come away with is that this type of of, you know,
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  criminal justice journey does in a way require you starting over.
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  You have a lot of talent, you have a lot of experience, but
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  especially when you come, if you have that conviction or you've
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  come home from prison, it's a very difficult, darn near
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  impossible. You're not going to go back to
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  where you came from. But you have to Marshall those
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  talents, the skills, your work experience, OK, You have to
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  rebuild. You have to be willing to come
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  out and to you have to be willing to put yourself out
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  there. It's a little scary at first.
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  It's easier to do when you have a community of people around you
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  that are supporting you. So that out of isolation, which
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  is our first panel, Bill Baroni is hosting it.
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  He or he's our moderator. Bill, as people may or you know,
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  it's a former New Jersey State senator.
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  He was also prosecuted himself and was serving time until the
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  Supreme Court overturned his conviction.
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  But he's moderating a panel out of isolation.
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  Elizabeth Kelly is one of the panelists.
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  She's a criminal defense attorney working with people
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  with mental, mental health disabilities.
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  We have Seth Williams. Seth is, for those who don't
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  know, was the first African American District Attorney for
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  the city of Philadelphia who himself ended up prosecuted.
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  And then we also have Erica Chung, who was or is the very
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  prominent individual who blew the whistle on Theranos, but she
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  is also dealing with a host of isolation issues because she's a
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  whistleblower. So that's an incredibly diverse
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  panel and it's going to give us a real insight into some of the
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  effects. And then we'll we'll move into
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  the into the next one. Jeff, you want to you want to
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  talk about the the second group or add to that?
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  So Brett, Brett, you want us to just go right through the
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  panels? Or let's do, let's do 'cause I,
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  I'm really proud of the people that are on.
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  I mean, what we just named off there, these are, these are
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  incredible people that you know, that are going to be people that
• 17:30
  you want to tune in for. Cause they've got real stories
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  and, and, and a lot a lot to share.
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  Yeah, and, and just for the first panel, you know, it's
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  we're, we're, we're leaning into how to escape isolationism, how
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  to, how to overcome it because obviously we as white collar,
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  white collars, we go through this and we can feel isolated at
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  any, any time along our journey. You know, that's the thing.
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  You know, I'm, I'm 20 years in and any given day, you know, I
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  could struggle to get out of bed.
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  So having tools and having a community to help me through it
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  is, is vital to my moving forward.
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  Well, the second panel is, I have it written right up here.
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  The second panel is healing through a supportive community.
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  So we've gone out of isolation and into healing through a
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  supportive community. And the moderator there is
• 18:32
  William Sansing. And William is a therapist in
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  Mississippi and he helps people who are going through all kinds
• 18:41
  of emotional issues, including criminal justice issues.
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  On the panel, we have Father Joe Saccone.
• 18:50
  You know, Joe was a divinity school classmate of mine and he
• 18:54
  was the former sheriff of Bergen County, New Jersey, got brought
• 18:58
  down in a campaign related a corruption issue.
• 19:05
  Fascinating story. Fascinating story.
• 19:07
  And of course, one of your guests on Nightmare Success went
• 19:12
  to seminary and is now a progressive Catholic priest and
• 19:18
  doing incredible work out there for a lot of marginalized
• 19:22
  communities. Our second panelist is Naya
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  Wilson. She's up in Massachusetts and
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  she was formerly a principal in the school and misused some
• 19:34
  funds there herself, got brought down, has to restart her life
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  and is working in the nonprofit sector now and doing a beautiful
• 19:45
  job with her life and a wonderful member of our
• 19:49
  community. And and the last is Porsche
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  Louder and Porsche. I think it's also been a guest
• 19:55
  of yours, Brent. Yeah, so.
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  She's coming out this week as as an episode, yeah.
• 19:59
  And and and Portia, I mean, came to our attention through her,
• 20:02
  her Ted talk and again, an incredible story lives in Utah
• 20:08
  and in Salt Lake City area and you know, as a story of, of
• 20:14
  drugs and substance abuse and and being.
• 20:20
  Hurt in relationships over and over and over again and had to
• 20:25
  find a way through it with her. I think she has seven children
• 20:28
  and how to navigate the world as someone who's been formally
• 20:33
  incarcerated and find healing through that community and her
• 20:37
  various communities, including including the a a community.
• 20:41
  Just an amazing story. So that's Panel 2 and we think
• 20:45
  that it will a lot of people will be able to relate and find
• 20:48
  a lot of comfort and guidance in it.
• 20:51
  Yeah, what one of the things I really like about it too, is
• 20:54
  that people don't realize that there are communities out there
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  for them, whether it's ours or whether it's a A or another
• 21:07
  community group that they can really rely on or they can kind
• 21:13
  of lean on when they're having these difficult and traumatic
• 21:17
  events. And and a lot of white collar
• 21:19
  people, for instance, tend to shy away from that stuff.
• 21:24
  You know, Brent, as you said, you know, a lot of white collar
• 21:26
  people are used to being in control.
• 21:28
  They're used to making all the decisions and, you know, very
• 21:33
  difficult for some men and women to say, God, I need help.
• 21:37
  And part of what we're also what we're trying to show in this
• 21:41
  panel is that it's really kind of brave if you do that.
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  It's not a sign of weakness. It's it's, it's a sign of
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  intelligence. It's a sign of knowing what you
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  need, OK, not pretending you don't need something.
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  Right. Beautiful, beautiful Bill.
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  That's really true. And we have panel 3.
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  Well, I guess. We're back.
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  We're back to you, Bill. All right.
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  So this to me is as important as the first 2 are a lot of white
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  collar people. They're really looking at this
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  because I want to get back to whatever semblance of normal I
• 22:23
  used to have. And to me, what's really
• 22:27
  interesting about this in the panels we have is how the
• 22:32
  individuals, and I'm going to name them in a second, how they
• 22:36
  looked at the skill sets that they used to have or they they
• 22:39
  accumulated over the years and then take that and move that
• 22:47
  into the new part of their life. So I'm really happy to say that
• 22:52
  that our own Jeff, Jeff Grant is going to be the panel moderator
• 22:57
  and who who belt who best to do that.
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  And our, our and our panelists are Casey Early.
• 23:06
  She is a criminal defense attorney and she's in Florida,
• 23:09
  correct, Brent. She's.
• 23:10
  In Florida, an incredibly, I mean just an amazing story, we
• 23:17
  have Jeffrey Abramowitz, he is this now the CEO of the PD Green
• 23:22
  program. And I believe that is in the
• 23:25
  Philadelphia, Princeton area, but there are across the country
• 23:28
  in different markets. And then we have Jeff work in
• 23:31
  who's a former formerly an attorney and he is now putting
• 23:36
  his skills to use at the Fortune Society in New York.
• 23:42
  Now these are all incredibly talented people who have had to
• 23:47
  reinvent what it is they're going to do.
• 23:50
  And that's where people, I believe, need the inspiration.
• 23:57
  Yeah, I mean, it's, it's a, it's a big panel with big people
• 24:01
  who've done big things and been and been brave.
• 24:04
  I'm sure that they got to where they are through their re entry
• 24:08
  by reaching out and figuring out both networking and what they
• 24:11
  needed and humbled themselves to get the help they needed.
• 24:15
  So our keynote is, is are you are, you are.
• 24:19
  You going to leave this one to me, Brandon?
• 24:21
  I I just. Go to say that David Israel,
• 24:25
  we'll be releasing David Israel's podcast right after the
• 24:30
  October 19th White Collar Conference.
• 24:33
  But I had the opportunity and the privilege to interview this
• 24:37
  man. And man, what a keynote he's
• 24:40
  going to be. But Jeff, welcome.
• 24:43
  Tell us about David. Now the now the reason, the
• 24:46
  reason I didn't introduce Panel 3 is because I, I so that Bill
• 24:50
  could talk about me, yes. Exactly right, of course.
• 24:54
  The reason why I have to announce the keynote is that I
• 24:57
  can talk about you because Brent Cassidy is going to be
• 25:05
  interviewing David Israel as a fireside chat for the first
• 25:09
  portion of our conference. And that's by design because we,
• 25:17
  Brent's an important part of our community and his podcast is an
• 25:20
  important part of our community. And we want to make sure that
• 25:24
  we're, we're digging into the things that are going to be
• 25:27
  truly helpful for people when they, when they are audience
• 25:33
  members of this, of this conference.
• 25:34
  So this is not really about David Israel's story, although
• 25:38
  his story is incredible. You can see that on the podcast
• 25:41
  that'll be releasing a couple days after.
• 25:43
  But this is really about how has David been able to be successful
• 25:48
  after prison? And what are the takeaways that
• 25:51
  you can learn from that? I mean, and, and why should I
• 25:57
  spend 3 hours of my time on a Saturday morning tuning into
• 26:01
  this conference? And the answer is because
• 26:03
  everybody who is either a speaker in this in this
• 26:09
  conference or a panelist has somehow overcome something and
• 26:12
  has takeaways and tips that you can use.
• 26:16
  And that's right from the beginning.
• 26:18
  That's right from the very beginning.
• 26:20
  What David Israel is going to be interviewed by our own Brent
• 26:22
  Cassidy. And of course, I would be remiss
• 26:26
  to say to leave out also that our host for the conference is
• 26:31
  our own Craig Stanlin, brilliant speaker coach and he calls
• 26:37
  himself a reinvention architect and he'll be emceeing and
• 26:42
  squiring us through each of the various components.
• 26:45
  We are going to have videos including world premiere of some
• 26:51
  videos in between the panels, which we're not going to tell
• 26:54
  you about right now, but they will be there.
• 26:57
  And of course Bill Laval see the the the third member of our trio
• 27:02
  here on will be also doing our closing remarks and be telling
• 27:09
  us giving us some takeaways and also be dropping a few hints as
• 27:13
  to what's in store post conference so that we have
• 27:20
  definitive takeaways and we have projects to work on together as
• 27:23
  a white collar community for the next year until White collar
• 27:28
  Conference 2025. Good stuff.
• 27:33
  And I, you know, but you know, if, if Craig was here, he'd say,
• 27:36
  you know, why should you do it? What's the, what's the, what,
• 27:39
  what do you get? Well, you get all of this with
• 27:44
  all these different people and you're not going to be
• 27:48
  dissatisfied because all of these different people have bits
• 27:52
  and pieces that you can take away and, and, and just
• 27:55
  implement. You know, I always say the best
• 27:57
  thing to do, you know, it's like getting the answers of the test.
• 28:00
  If you, if you humble yourself and you look for people that are
• 28:03
  getting it right, and then you take that and you push it back
• 28:06
  into your life and implement it. It's truly like getting the
• 28:08
  answers before the test. And these people have
• 28:12
  extraordinary stories of overcoming.
• 28:15
  And the reason why this is something that you're going to
• 28:21
  just need to tune in for because it's important is you'll, you'll
• 28:24
  get something from it. And I know those people out
• 28:27
  there. And this is also for family
• 28:30
  members, you know, they could be struggling through this could be
• 28:34
  a mom or dad, you know, that have actually gone through, but
• 28:37
  it could be a, a son or daughter or whatever that, that needs to
• 28:40
  hear how, how, how is there, how are they getting through all
• 28:43
  this? And, and it's it's, there's
• 28:45
  something in there for everyone. So, so real quickly, Brent, let
• 28:49
  me just say that it is open to everyone.
• 28:52
  So it's open for professionals, it's open for family members.
• 28:56
  Anybody, anybody can join at White collarconference.com.
• 29:00
  We have incredible sponsors so far and we're looking for more
• 29:03
  sponsors because you can never have enough sponsors.
• 29:06
  And we are blessed and grateful to have the M Law 50 Law Firm of
• 29:11
  Paul, Weiss as our lead sponsor. Paul Weiss, for people who don't
• 29:17
  know has a a huge and important white collar defense practices
• 29:23
  as well as many other practices. So thank you to Paul Weiss and
• 29:28
  all the lawyers and and professionals there.
• 29:31
  Some of our other sponsors are resource associates who who
• 29:37
  write grants. Elizabeth Kelly, she is an
• 29:40
  attorney who's going to be one of our panelists.
• 29:42
  Of course, Nightmare Success in in and out podcast is one of our
• 29:46
  sponsors. Good Planet Foods is one of our
• 29:49
  sponsors, The Association of Certified Fraud Examiners.
• 29:52
  Schneider Downs, an accounting firm in Columbus, OH, law firm
• 29:58
  of Elliot Kwok Levine, Jarris Law and Neil's in New York City.
• 30:02
  Jeffrey Lichtman, a an attorney in New York City.
• 30:07
  Let's see. Charles Nazelski, CMN, advisors
• 30:10
  in New York City and Linus Law in Connecticut.
• 30:13
  Many, many others. But we could use a lot more
• 30:17
  sponsors and we have, we have people who are contacting us
• 30:22
  every day now. And so we'd be happy to have you
• 30:27
  support us. And of course, we'll support you
• 30:29
  in return. What else, guys?
• 30:32
  Before we close and round this up in our little round table
• 30:35
  that we've this at first, we might do this some more, yeah.
• 30:38
  I, I, I definitely want to touch on the fact of the people that
• 30:44
  we have on the panels and the moderators.
• 30:47
  And I think a lot of people in, in our white collar world here
• 30:55
  think that there is a silver bullet, that there's a, there is
• 30:59
  a, there's a prescription to finding your way through or an
• 31:06
  answer to solve all the problems.
• 31:08
  And, and, and the thing that you will come to realize is after
• 31:11
  you, you, you attend, you listen to the people who are the
• 31:15
  panelists. There isn't one right way.
• 31:21
  But when you listen to them, we, I happen to know most of them.
• 31:26
  You're going to learn that that you have the skills there.
• 31:31
  You just have to learn how to apply them.
• 31:34
  OK? And, and, and these individuals
• 31:37
  can show you based on their unique situation.
• 31:40
  This is what I did or this is what I'm doing.
• 31:43
  This is how it's working. OK.
• 31:46
  And that to me is is a huge benefit.
• 31:50
  For it's a great way to go to attend.
• 31:52
  Yep. Yep, you could take the easy way
• 31:55
  out folks. Write a check to someone and
• 31:58
  they'll promise you the world, but I, I, but we promise you
• 32:02
  that there is no substitute for putting the work in.
• 32:05
  And anyone who tells you that they can relieve the pain or
• 32:09
  that the pain's going to go away soon, and yet that can happen by
• 32:12
  writing a check, they're lying to you because the pain is not
• 32:16
  going to go away soon. No matter what happens.
• 32:19
  This is something you got to work your way through, and it
• 32:22
  takes a long time for all of us, and all of us are still working
• 32:26
  on it. But together we find comfort and
• 32:30
  together we find the resources to be able to get through it.
• 32:32
  And that's what this conference is to get about.
• 32:35
  That's what the White College Support Group is about, and
• 32:37
  that's what nightmare success is about.
• 32:40
  That's exactly everything connects all the dots.
• 32:42
  Connect it. It's so just real quick, white
• 32:46
  collarconference.com go there, register, get yourself in and
• 32:52
  the and and if you want to try us out, try us out on Monday
• 32:55
  night. You know, that's that's it's
• 32:59
  it's 7:00 PM Eastern Standard Time.
• 33:02
  That's right. 6:00 PM Central. That's right.
• 33:05
  And then whatever that is for Pacific.
• 33:07
  That's right, like like in the back of a New York, it's. 4:00
• 33:10
  But I I get so messed up with. In the back of a New York taxi
• 33:14
  cab, it says. Right, It says.
• 33:15
  It says can't hurt, might help. Can't hurt might help there it
• 33:21
  is good way good good way to end that Jeff, everybody, Jeff,
• 33:28
  Bill, thanks for being on we're we're looking forward to this
• 33:32
  and hopefully everybody can get on here and spend some time and
• 33:35
  and get something out of it. Talk about being grateful.
• 33:40
  Homestead Financial helps me have this podcast room here.
• 33:44
  And if you need home mortgage needs, Greg FDF is your guy.
• 33:49
  As I used to say to my people when I was writing my emails
• 33:52
  back and forth from Leavenworth, stay strong.
• 33:54
  I'll do the same. Jeff, Bill, thank you.
• 33:57
  Blessings to everyone. Thank you.
• 34:00
  See you Monday night.