Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Dylan Rees about his choice of The Underwater Menace (animated 1/4)

Transcript

Talks to Dylan Rees about his choice of The Underwater Menace (animated 1/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:23
  None hamster with a blunt pen knife
• 0:35
  for doing. Quicker, quicker, Welcome back
• 0:41
  to our Hamster with a blunt pen Knife, the Doctor Who Coventry
• 0:44
  podcast. Hello.
• 0:46
  Hello. Hi, Joe.
• 0:48
  What are you doing in my home? Oh well, I wanted to explore
• 0:50
  your man cave. Yes, well, I explored yours in
• 0:54
  great depth, I have to say. He walked in, he started
• 0:57
  fiddling about. I did.
• 0:59
  I was touching everything. Putting my fingers where I
• 1:02
  shouldn't Put my fingers all over things still covered in
• 1:05
  cellophane. We are, of course, talking about
• 1:07
  Big Finish CDs. But please don't mention while
• 1:09
  still covered in cellophane. All right, just in case anyone's
• 1:11
  listening, Do you know when we did shower on Too Hot for TV?
• 1:15
  Yeah, our incredible success across an entire week of the six
• 1:21
  year anniversary that was still in Bloody Cellar fame when I
• 1:23
  took it off the show. Sorry, Paul.
• 1:25
  Cornell That's OK, You got your money.
• 1:27
  That's the main thing. He doesn't care if you watch it
• 1:29
  or not. That's a good point.
• 1:30
  Where was he? You said that one time?
• 1:32
  Oh, it was Colin on the Terror of the Vervoids commentary.
• 1:36
  He's talking to Michael Craig and he goes, well, maybe someone
• 1:39
  will get so angry they'll throw the Blu-ray on the wall in
• 1:42
  disgust and Micro goes, no, he goes no.
• 1:44
  Colin goes no. They'll have to buy another one.
• 1:47
  He's very aware of the money, Colin.
• 1:49
  Yeah, he is. He loves, he loves a few quid.
• 1:51
  Well, as these actors get older, I'm sure their pensions weren't
• 1:53
  all that like have you make a few quid.
• 1:57
  I once went to Peter Miles house, you know, name dropping
• 2:01
  and he. What occurred in Peter Miles?
• 2:03
  House we just talked about Doctor Who spin offs, but he was
• 2:06
  telling me about he he his pension was basically a state
• 2:09
  pension and then whatever money he got from Doctor Who DVDs and
• 2:13
  VHS types. Without his income at that
• 2:16
  point, I think that's Colin. In fact, when Colin did the
• 2:19
  hello welcome to finish big, I thought he was going to say
• 2:21
  right at £50. Afterwards, yeah, but also Colin
• 2:24
  goes to conventions every weekend and earns about 5 grand
• 2:27
  from with people so you know Peter Miles missed that train.
• 2:31
  Unfortunately, he's living a very luxurious lifestyle on the
• 2:35
  back of Doctor Who. Well, look, Dylan, recently
• 2:40
  we've had, you know, three Doctor Who specials come out.
• 2:43
  We have obviously we could talk about those.
• 2:46
  There's been numerous Big Finish releases coming up.
• 2:48
  We could be talking about those. What have you chosen to talk
• 2:51
  about today? Well, it's the story that the
• 2:54
  BFI chose to celebrate the Doctor Who anniversary with,
• 2:57
  with their only showing in November at the BFI.
• 3:01
  And it was released, I think it was the only official Blu-ray
• 3:05
  and DVD release of the 50th anniversary in November as well.
• 3:08
  And it is of course the animation of the underwater
• 3:12
  this. What a choice.
• 3:14
  And not only is it the animation, but we're going to do
• 3:16
  the animation all the way through.
• 3:18
  So we're not, we're not jumping into those real episodes.
• 3:21
  No, no, no. It's animations all the way do.
• 3:24
  You know what? All right, when I watch this, it
• 3:26
  works so much better as an animation.
• 3:27
  It does and it does that's. Exactly why I wanted to do it.
• 3:30
  I was like this. Not really a huge fan of the
• 3:33
  animation. I watched them but they bore me
• 3:35
  quite a lot because, I mean, I've said this before and it's,
• 3:39
  you know, scandalous. Most of them.
• 3:41
  I wish they'd edit them down into about 50 minutes and just
• 3:44
  get rid of all the faff in between.
• 3:46
  As they recently did with the Daleks.
• 3:47
  As they recently did with the Daleks and just make it a
• 3:50
  slightly more dynamic cartoon. Because while if the episodes
• 3:54
  existed, I would want to see them in full.
• 3:56
  I mean, I'll say that they do for The Underwater Menace, but
• 3:59
  when they're in animated form, I sometimes find that they just go
• 4:03
  on a little bit. And once you've seen all the
• 4:05
  sets and all the characters, you're like, oh it's these guys
• 4:07
  making the seven the same 7 movements again.
• 4:10
  You know, I do occasionally think that you are slightly out
• 4:13
  of step with the rest of fandom. Apparently the the suggestion
• 4:17
  that you had of rebooting Doctor Who.
• 4:19
  By completely dismissing the 60 years I'm remaking the stories
• 4:24
  now, I don't think I'm out of line to say that you generally
• 4:29
  prefer Chris Chipnall's output to Rusty Davies #2.
• 4:32
  Yeah, I mean, Rusty Davis is #2 he's only had three stories, so.
• 4:40
  Yeah, it's hard to judge at this point.
• 4:41
  And now you know your suggestion that they in fact do not remain
• 4:46
  grateful in any way shape or form to the original material
• 4:49
  and release edited versions. I feel like you should be handed
• 4:53
  Doctor Who you know someone needs.
• 4:54
  To give me Doctor Who and then I'll see how quickly I can get
• 4:57
  it cancelled. You remember John F Kennedy and
• 5:02
  John Lennon. Going out the same way, we'll
• 5:05
  add. Deliveries to that list, Well,
• 5:08
  I'm going to jump into episode one in a second.
• 5:11
  I'm going to ask you one last question before we go in though,
• 5:16
  and that is what is your general feeling of Season 4?
• 5:20
  Season 4 has always been a bit of a mystery, like growing up in
• 5:25
  the 90s or any time that wasn't the 60s.
• 5:28
  I suggest season four was the most.
• 5:30
  It felt like it was the most missing.
• 5:33
  There was the Hartnell stories at the beginning.
• 5:35
  There's some trout and stories that there wasn't a lot of
• 5:38
  pictures. There wasn't.
• 5:39
  There was just little bits that existed.
• 5:42
  So it was the most exciting Doctor Who could be in a way,
• 5:45
  because you knew so little about it.
• 5:48
  Now, obviously we've had years of access to the audios and
• 5:52
  we've had animations and we've had episode rediscoveries and
• 5:55
  things like that. It feels more accessible than
• 5:59
  it's ever been. But I think it's a wonderful
• 6:02
  it's a time of upheaval and change and great creativity and
• 6:06
  experiments that don't always work.
• 6:08
  But I'm here for it and love it. It's a weird thing because I
• 6:12
  mean, it starts very experimentally.
• 6:16
  No, no, sorry. It starts sort of doing a bit
• 6:18
  bit of the same. You've got a historical then you
• 6:21
  have a mad shift in the 10th planet, which we recently talked
• 6:24
  about on the House of. Live on YouTube.
• 6:27
  Oh, Jarry, listen to that back. It's fabulous.
• 6:29
  Sorry, this is very indulgent saying that.
• 6:32
  They're fucking great, aren't we?
• 6:33
  We're amazing. Jesus Christ, why do you think
• 6:36
  you're in my fucking schedule so much?
• 6:39
  Then you have. Yeah, like you say.
• 6:40
  So it's this whole period of shift and change which
• 6:43
  definitely the underwater menace basically slips through the
• 6:46
  cracks of it. Like, well, we've got to make
• 6:49
  something, let's put this on. We've got this script from
• 6:51
  Jeffrey, but we're heading towards a formula.
• 6:54
  Yeah. Don't think we quite get there
• 6:58
  in this season. No, we certainly get there in
• 7:00
  the next season. Exactly.
• 7:02
  It's it's it's kind of the last time classic Doctor Who, the
• 7:06
  sort of 60s stuff. It hasn't found its feet.
• 7:10
  It's still trying new things. And it's not like you say the
• 7:14
  formulary thing and that's not a negative thing, but Doctor Who's
• 7:17
  identity, it feels like it's properly carved out in the next
• 7:20
  season. And then beyond, when you start
• 7:22
  to get the time laws introduced and you get UNIT and it's like,
• 7:25
  oh, this is what the show is up until the end of season four, it
• 7:28
  absolutely can be anything. It's that original remit and
• 7:32
  everybody's got a different idea of what it could and should be
• 7:35
  as we get the revolving door of producers and writers.
• 7:38
  Kind of exciting then, isn't it? All those voices.
• 7:41
  Yeah, and what could be more exciting than the underwater?
• 7:46
  I still think it's got one of the best villains of all time.
• 7:49
  It does well. Shall we see him in action?
• 7:50
  Yes. Shall we enter in 54321 play?
• 7:57
  Shall we enter you just? Yeah.
• 7:59
  Shall we enter? Very exciting for a second,
• 8:02
  yeah. Whereabouts is that?
• 8:04
  Atlantis. They do say, don't they in the
• 8:06
  scripts that they they might be somewhere around the.
• 8:08
  I thought it was a great question, I can't remember now.
• 8:12
  Is that right? Now I like Doctor Who black and
• 8:16
  white Doctor Who in colour, as they've recently done with the
• 8:18
  Daleks and with this. So I have to say I always think
• 8:21
  it's weird when the titles are in colour.
• 8:23
  I don't know why, I just do. It's they do for some of them
• 8:27
  this very weird Pertwyesque like technicolour.
• 8:31
  That we've opened on this shot of the TARDIS and I love that
• 8:34
  the fact they've gone to the great detail of making the
• 8:37
  TARDIS look like it's wooden. The console's wooden and painted
• 8:42
  they've. Got an eye for detail and you
• 8:44
  can see the balsa wood from here.
• 8:47
  I'm not sure who that guy is playing, but maybe they have to
• 8:52
  pay more money if they pay for the Patrick Trout and like like
• 8:55
  this. So they've gone for his chubby
• 8:58
  brother, Big Finisher. I can say that I'm a.
• 9:03
  Chuck girl, that was nice. Well done.
• 9:06
  I know that. Annika Wills, you know, the
• 9:08
  first animation they did, she had a few things to say, didn't
• 9:11
  she? Annika Wills has always got a
• 9:12
  few things to say. About everything.
• 9:13
  But she's literally there of quotas going.
• 9:16
  You can't, can't you get me right.
• 9:18
  I didn't have piggy little eyes like that.
• 9:20
  I think now they've managed to get the three companions, yeah,
• 9:26
  relatively authentic. Yeah, no, I think they they all
• 9:29
  look like who they're supposed to.
• 9:32
  But also it's a cartoon. It doesn't have to look 100%.
• 9:35
  Is the animation smoother than it used to be?
• 9:37
  I think. So are we we're using more
• 9:39
  frames or something now? I don't.
• 9:41
  Know, but it does. I hadn't really noticed but here
• 9:43
  it does. It looks a little.
• 9:45
  It does look smoother. Like that first version of The
• 9:49
  Power of the Daleks, you know, people were sort of jumping
• 9:52
  across, you know? It was only sort of two steps
• 9:55
  removed from Death Comes to Time at that point.
• 9:58
  I'm almost willing to bet that the location work did not look
• 10:02
  like this. No, like the back of terror as
• 10:04
  well. Then you get those vast
• 10:06
  landscapes. Would you?
• 10:06
  Like I've seen that picture of the TARDIS on the Cliff edge and
• 10:10
  it's literally the size of the wall in your living room.
• 10:13
  Here. Is that all right though to make
• 10:14
  those? Yeah, absolutely.
• 10:15
  I'm 100% here for it. I think what's the point of
• 10:18
  making an animation that looks like a shoddy 60s studio?
• 10:22
  What's going on with those doors?
• 10:24
  Oh yeah, they did. That's that's what they did.
• 10:25
  People lost their shit about that.
• 10:27
  Oh, was that controversial? Yeah, yeah.
• 10:30
  Now the other controversy here is, of course, the Doctor in
• 10:33
  episode one wears his stove pipe hat and he's not wearing it
• 10:36
  here. Oh.
• 10:37
  My, the rough and tumble machine all.
• 10:39
  I can only imagine who was up in arms about this.
• 10:43
  Was it Ian Lavigne? It's a good chance.
• 10:48
  No, he hated this whole thing because it wasn't slightly
• 10:50
  original. There is definitely more
• 10:53
  movement. They are smooth, there is
• 10:54
  smoother movements, which I think is exciting.
• 10:57
  And then we pan up to this. Fabulous sort of ziggurat.
• 11:00
  Yeah, or just a rock, I'm sure. That's what it looked like in
• 11:05
  the original. You know, have you ever studied
• 11:07
  this telly snaps in much depth? Have you watched the recons?
• 11:11
  Yes. So the first time I would have
• 11:13
  seen this would have been sending off for a videotape from
• 11:15
  joint venture the Recon. Company.
• 11:19
  And they would have sent me back a Recon of the of episodes 1/3
• 11:24
  and four, No 1-2 and four and a bootleg copy of episode 3.
• 11:28
  That's how you like your bootlegs and those?
• 11:31
  No, but no, I can't remember them, so pray tell.
• 11:34
  Well, no, I all I remember is it certainly wasn't the three of
• 11:38
  them scaling and enormous mounting like this.
• 11:41
  There was basically like a hole in a rock that they went through
• 11:45
  a bit like a bit like mine warp. You know that how they go
• 11:47
  through there and there in the Cliff face.
• 11:50
  Now what I really like about this animation, obviously it's
• 11:53
  taking liberties and making it look more interesting, but this
• 11:56
  looks like the cartoons I would watch on a Saturday morning on
• 12:01
  ITV or BBC One or whatever it was.
• 12:03
  It's hey man, it's scooby-doo, it's Thundercats, it's the it's
• 12:08
  it's the wrestling cartoon. So can.
• 12:10
  I ask you, should animation not have come on in the last 25
• 12:14
  years? You don't have the money for
• 12:16
  that? What?
• 12:17
  How many copies is this selling? It's got to be 20,000 at the
• 12:21
  most and they've got to. Sure, that's going to make its
• 12:23
  money back. Yeah, it'll make its money back.
• 12:25
  It's got to make its money back, otherwise they wouldn't do
• 12:27
  anymore. But that is not enough money.
• 12:29
  When you think of the production costs, all the people you've got
• 12:31
  to pay, that is not enough money to do some Netflix style mega
• 12:36
  animation. When they use the soundtrack, do
• 12:39
  I have to pay all the actors? Yeah, that you're still playing
• 12:43
  the residuals that you would releasing ATV show and stuff.
• 12:47
  But it's like 4 1/2 lbs. Probably something like that,
• 12:50
  but it's like I, I don't think people quite realize what a
• 12:54
  niche product this is. What the?
• 12:58
  Animation of the. Underwater.
• 13:01
  No, it's true. Like I know how.
• 13:03
  Precisely how niche this is, I know no one else in my life has
• 13:06
  gone except me. I've got it.
• 13:10
  Well, yeah, but you're as mad as I am.
• 13:15
  Did you look at him? Not that rock.
• 13:17
  That's completely smooth. I love it.
• 13:20
  It's it's this is like dragon fire all over again.
• 13:23
  Oh, let's not go there again. Just Joe, I found that now I can
• 13:27
  finally see that that you were talking about.
• 13:31
  I brought that up on. The yes, I've been going on
• 13:33
  about that cliffhanger. Doctor Who fans have been wrong
• 13:36
  their entire life, and surprising.
• 13:37
  I essentially need to watch all of Doctor Who You now and you'll
• 13:40
  be able to point out where I'm going wrong.
• 13:42
  When you've seen dragon fire as much as be you just you start to
• 13:46
  notice these things. Can I ask you, did you have a
• 13:49
  hard on when they mentioned Savlon gicks?
• 13:51
  Oh God. Savlon glicked in the giggle.
• 13:55
  Yes, yes, I did. Yeah.
• 13:56
  That's the first reference to dragon fire since.
• 13:59
  Dragon fire My my brother messaged me afterwards and goes
• 14:05
  isn't it funny that we all thought we were going to get a
• 14:07
  massive reboot and literally one of the first words the new
• 14:10
  Doctor says is Mavic Chen? And Adrick, Yeah.
• 14:16
  Adric's been all over the place the last few years.
• 14:18
  Hasn't. He Jesus.
• 14:20
  Christ seizing a spin off. On the commentary Ross today
• 14:22
  this goes poor shoot, he goes he didn't have a clue he was
• 14:25
  talking about props to his acting.
• 14:28
  I I. I hope that what we're in for
• 14:30
  actually is an Adric spin off, but it's like a Bear Grylls
• 14:32
  reality show of him surviving on on planet Earth.
• 14:37
  I mean, I would. Watch it, I'd watch it.
• 14:41
  Jesus, I'd watch anything mate. So they've all been captured in
• 14:45
  Atlantis by some rather cool looking guards.
• 14:47
  What, We don't know. We're on Atlantis yet, do we?
• 14:50
  No, they're going down and lift. Now, what I quite like is the
• 14:53
  fact this is basically your traditional Doctor Who adventure
• 14:56
  at this point. They've landed.
• 14:57
  They've explored, they. Got captured.
• 14:59
  I'd be willing to say that this is about the only part of the
• 15:03
  story that is a traditional Doctor Who adventure.
• 15:05
  Yeah, I mean, you know, there's weird monsters and stuff.
• 15:10
  I would like you to compare and contrast as we go through this,
• 15:13
  the two Atlanta seas that we see in Doctor Who.
• 15:17
  The what? You mean the one from the time
• 15:19
  murder, not time at the time monster as well.
• 15:21
  That's. The one.
• 15:22
  There's a distinct lacks of Ingrid Pitts tits in this one.
• 15:28
  But plenty of Annika wheels, yes, So we're right.
• 15:30
  I know. She's she's covered up, isn't
• 15:32
  she? A bit too much, actually.
• 15:34
  I'm not looking at her cartoon tits.
• 15:38
  I've shortly designed lift there that makes you all fall over
• 15:41
  when you get to the bottom. I I love all the liberties they
• 15:46
  take with the how the guards look.
• 15:48
  Me too. And the Temple of Ando and all
• 15:51
  of it. It's just making a bigger, more
• 15:53
  exciting world and we'll get to the fish people when we get to
• 15:56
  the fish people. Although we've got sort of
• 15:58
  archaic animation here, but did you watch us on the BFI screen?
• 16:02
  No, no, I bet it was really fun. I'm.
• 16:04
  Sure it was. It can't have been any worse
• 16:05
  than fucking Galaxy 4. Because you've watched that in
• 16:08
  the BFI. Yeah, I had to leave for a
• 16:10
  couple of episodes in the middle.
• 16:12
  She'd what? Go to the bar?
• 16:13
  Yeah, a couple of drinks. Which is I I thought about
• 16:16
  getting into heroin actually, and the the BFI didn't serve
• 16:21
  anything strong enough to get me through that I.
• 16:23
  Watched that once. I I put it on at home while I
• 16:29
  was. Working.
• 16:29
  Tell me you made your no no no but Galaxy. 4:00 but she was
• 16:32
  like what the fuck are you watching?
• 16:33
  Because it's all just bleeps and bleeps and bleeps and blocks.
• 16:37
  She's like why? Boom boom, just that for 25.
• 16:41
  But that's episode one, basically.
• 16:45
  Now I would like to discuss with you and I've realised they are
• 16:50
  animated right now just how hot this companion team is and
• 16:57
  that's a bisexual man. Is this a companion team that
• 17:00
  you like to travel the universe? I'm really into 2D animations
• 17:04
  myself. It's my #1 kink.
• 17:08
  Dating you they are pretty though this three.
• 17:10
  They are very pretty. I mean The thing is, I find like
• 17:15
  Ben and Polly sort of frozen in time is pretty good, but Jamie,
• 17:19
  I'm just used to pervy old fucking telling stories.
• 17:23
  For years and years and years. He's he's older, he got the
• 17:27
  worst, those stories. Fail, especially as society
• 17:30
  moved on as. Well.
• 17:31
  I'm surprised he's allowed to do Doctor Who conventions.
• 17:34
  I was convinced that every story has has the caveat of, you know,
• 17:38
  things aren't how they were back in the day.
• 17:41
  You know you can't get away with nothing.
• 17:44
  Anymore, didn't he? He was very pretty.
• 17:47
  Yeah, but like. It, I mean, I would have done,
• 17:51
  you know, in the Myra, but where he's climbing up that rock in
• 17:54
  that sort of black tank top, yeah.
• 17:56
  Are you jealous of the rock? Oh man, he was humping that rock
• 18:00
  as he goes. Of course, now he's in his 80s
• 18:02
  and very much in his dinner lady phase, isn't he?
• 18:05
  Yeah, I went to a convention right up little, but it was a
• 18:07
  sort of a small comet, very, very small up in Newcastle and
• 18:14
  it was so badly organised. Him and Terry Malloy were left
• 18:19
  in a room whilst the attendees filled up and nobody came in for
• 18:23
  ages. So Fraser went, oh this is
• 18:27
  dreadful. He goes, can we just take
• 18:29
  questions from you guys because I don't mean the organisers are
• 18:32
  coming back. Now here they are having a snack
• 18:37
  now. Plankton.
• 18:39
  The the biggest issue I have with this program is that
• 18:43
  Zaroff's got all this technology.
• 18:44
  They're somewhere where they've got lifts and computers, but
• 18:47
  they've got no storage system for food to stop it from going
• 18:51
  off. He couldn't have brought a
• 18:52
  fridge with him down in the lift.
• 18:54
  And Zaroff can definitely make a refrigeration unit if he can
• 18:57
  just if he can flood the world. Indeed, and that plankton does
• 19:01
  not look particularly alluring. Doesn't.
• 19:03
  It although Jamie's haven't, although Jamie's from the past,
• 19:06
  isn't he? He probably just he's basically.
• 19:08
  Shovelling down horseshit. This is why the doctor
• 19:14
  immediately realizes that Zaraf is around because of his
• 19:18
  pioneering plankton diet. Oh, have you heard the instant
• 19:24
  of music to this as well? It's brilliant.
• 19:26
  Very strange, isn't it it? Just goes what?
• 19:30
  Look at this guy. So he just.
• 19:32
  Met the leader and he's He's bigger on makeup than his real
• 19:36
  life counterpart, isn't he he? Is it's all over his chest.
• 19:38
  Look, massive octopus. Yeah, he looks like somebody
• 19:45
  you'd meet on an Australian beach somewhere.
• 19:47
  Have you been on many Australian beaches?
• 19:49
  None. But if I do not expect to meet
• 19:52
  him. I love not here, but the other
• 19:55
  one, Lola, the high priest. He goes, oh, I'm do, I'm do.
• 19:59
  Well, he's what's his name from the Celestial Toy maker, isn't
• 20:02
  he? Yaru.
• 20:07
  Was he Billy Bunter? Yeah, you know, and you'll be
• 20:09
  killed, that one. I went to Riverside Studios and
• 20:14
  saw that on the big screen the other day the the episode.
• 20:17
  Four, you're a clutton for fucking punishment.
• 20:20
  You're the art. It's fucking dreadful.
• 20:22
  Galaxy 4 and it. Was only episode four.
• 20:25
  It was only the episode that existed.
• 20:27
  It was show. Go to any of the good ones.
• 20:29
  No, I. Don't I don't like conductor
• 20:30
  rubbish. Overrated Caves of Watts, Power
• 20:35
  of the Daleks give give me a break.
• 20:37
  Galaxy 4, Galaxy 5, Galaxy 6 on there.
• 20:40
  Oh, bless you. And how was it?
• 20:42
  Sorry, no. I didn't.
• 20:43
  It was great to see it on the big screen and it was truly as
• 20:46
  dreadful as I mean, I'm very interested to see this new
• 20:49
  animation they've done, but the Celestial Toy Maker episode 4 is
• 20:54
  not a great episode of DO. You think you'd get away with a
• 20:57
  game of Hop on the Squares nowadays on TV?
• 21:00
  The climax of the last episode of Doctor Who was a game of
• 21:03
  catch, so. No way.
• 21:05
  I did like the fact that they kept it simple though.
• 21:08
  It did. Feel like a homage?
• 21:10
  I can't decide whether it's a moment of genius or terrible,
• 21:14
  but isn't that Doctor Who? Or Doctor Who.
• 21:18
  Oh, look at this. Yeah, look like all the guards
• 21:19
  with their big rim fish faces. I really.
• 21:22
  Like it like going back to the animation again, I feel like
• 21:25
  they're doing more sort of shadows the the flames and that
• 21:28
  it is come on a bit. And the colour palette as well.
• 21:32
  Well, this is wild, this story. So they've gone, you know,
• 21:35
  bright. Yeah, exactly.
• 21:36
  I mean, like you look at, I know Power of the Daleks was the
• 21:38
  first one and they've had a tinker with it a few times and
• 21:41
  it's in black and white, but like the black and white
• 21:44
  actually doesn't lend itself very well to the animation, I
• 21:46
  don't think. I mean, I know you know a little
• 21:48
  secret, you know this. They don't.
• 21:50
  And that is I bought this on Amazon as separate episodes
• 21:55
  because I couldn't wait to get into town and buy the DVD.
• 21:58
  But I chose the colour one. I didn't chose the black and.
• 22:01
  White one. I haven't watched the black and
• 22:03
  white versions of any of the ones I've got.
• 22:06
  I think the whole point is to make them accessible, yeah?
• 22:09
  What's what's the worst animation they've done either?
• 22:12
  It doesn't have to be the quality of the animation, but
• 22:14
  what is the one you have the most trouble watching?
• 22:16
  Reign of Terror? Really.
• 22:18
  I just found the Tarantino style cuts to it jarring.
• 22:23
  Yeah, but that's because those two episodes are basically
• 22:25
  conversations of the broom cupboard.
• 22:27
  I don't have to do something with it.
• 22:28
  It's like. Eye mouth, eye.
• 22:30
  Long shot, mid shot like, but that's in five.
• 22:32
  Seconds. It was a bit too much.
• 22:34
  What about you, though? Oh.
• 22:35
  Mine was The Abominable Snowman. I think it's a dull story as is.
• 22:39
  It's got no music and then you take away any character
• 22:45
  movements and things like that and it just, I think that's
• 22:48
  probably up there as like one of the dullest Doctor Who stories
• 22:52
  that could possibly be as an animation.
• 22:54
  I don't know what it's like rediscovered.
• 22:56
  I've never particularly like. I like the Target book, but I've
• 22:58
  never. Watched all six episodes at the
• 23:00
  BFI. Oh my God, do.
• 23:02
  You know, right, Not real. There's nothing to do under what
• 23:05
  menace? But we're talking about
• 23:06
  animations, so let's go. With under what menace is shit?
• 23:08
  We haven't got much. No Sarah coming up.
• 23:12
  So that's when it picks up. Although that fabulous shot, did
• 23:15
  you see all the sharks going around?
• 23:17
  Yeah, amazing. I'm not sure where's that in the
• 23:19
  original this. Is a proper fucking kids
• 23:21
  Saturday morning cartoon again. Edit it down to 50 minutes and
• 23:25
  put it on the iPlayer for all the all the youths to see.
• 23:28
  One of the cliches of hamster now is me saying that I was
• 23:32
  brought up on a diet of bee movies.
• 23:33
  I was This is the ultimate Doctor Who Bee movie.
• 23:37
  This is proper 1950s like. Came.
• 23:40
  From outer space sort of thing I'm there for.
• 23:44
  Fish masks. But Doc 2 doesn't do pulp very
• 23:47
  often in the classic not as often as you'd think, because it
• 23:49
  often gets lumped in with it. But it's I don't, I'm struggling
• 23:53
  to think of too many more. Maybe the Web planet, and not
• 23:58
  just because it looks cheap and shoddy.
• 24:00
  I mean those the Galaxy 4, those stories that are so simple they
• 24:04
  almost don't make sense. And you know, comparing this,
• 24:08
  which it does move this and it has a crazy villain in it and
• 24:14
  like fun set pieces, you know, the dance of the fish people.
• 24:19
  Jesus Christ. Compare that to the time
• 24:21
  monster, which is basically trying to be like a a weird BBC
• 24:25
  Shakespearean drama. It's a bit dull, isn't it?
• 24:29
  In comparison. Anyway, back to the abominable.
• 24:32
  Snowball animation are. We here?
• 24:35
  Oh, that man next to him looks ghoulish.
• 24:37
  Yeah, he looks like he needs. I have a secret.
• 24:41
  Didn't he say Doctor W on the original?
• 24:45
  I mean, no wonder what the secret.
• 24:46
  Is it from the doctor or do you think that's from the high
• 24:49
  priest who's just had for a shag?
• 24:52
  I think this looks more spectacular than it probably did
• 24:54
  as well, yeah. Them sliding into the water.
• 24:57
  It's such a great idea though. Tied them up and they slowly
• 25:01
  slide into the. Fiscal budget.
• 25:03
  James Bond even on cartoon. Excuse me, Joseph First was in a
• 25:08
  James Bond, was he? Yeah, he's in.
• 25:11
  Oh, God. It's one of the Roger Moore
• 25:13
  ones. I think he's really subdued.
• 25:17
  I'm. Sure he is, but he's playing the
• 25:18
  material he's given here and everyone's obviously having a
• 25:20
  laugh and like going this is shit so of course they're gonna
• 25:24
  play it up. I also don't think Joseph First
• 25:27
  is nearly as bad as people say. Is in this, yeah.
• 25:31
  No, he's just having fun. Also and at no point does he say
• 25:36
  nothing in Z world can stop me now in a German accent he shouts
• 25:39
  nothing in the world can stop me now but it's a it's a cliche
• 25:43
  much like the dragon fire thing that is untrue.
• 25:46
  That's why you come here. That is to spell all of the
• 25:49
  cliches. He does definitely say you are a
• 25:51
  fool, yeah. Like he does float in and out of
• 25:54
  this weird cod German accent but he definitely says nothing in
• 26:00
  the world can stop me now in a very English sounding accent.
• 26:03
  It's a cartoon character that he's playing, so he's.
• 26:07
  He's a cartoon. He's given an elevated
• 26:09
  performance. How else?
• 26:10
  You're not going to underplay this, are you?
• 26:12
  The lions he's got, You know the bit later on where where he's
• 26:16
  talking to. Oh God, what's the fella's name?
• 26:18
  Who's in charge of Atlantis? Him.
• 26:21
  Yeah, I know you mean octopus chest man, because.
• 26:23
  The doctor's already said, you know, look at his eyes.
• 26:25
  Have you not noticed how psychotic he is?
• 26:26
  And he says he's like, what are you staring at?
• 26:29
  And the Capella's looking right into his eyes, like, oh, I think
• 26:32
  he might be a psycho. You can't underplay this stuff.
• 26:36
  Absolutely not so. I wasn't going to tell you a
• 26:39
  story about the abandoned All Snowman animation, but I've
• 26:42
  completely forgotten anything about that, Dave.
• 26:45
  We've we've got many more episodes to come.
• 26:47
  I've just remembered at the end they opened it out to questions
• 26:52
  and Jeremy Bentham who are here is quite sort of well considered
• 26:57
  in old fan circles. You know, he might be good pals
• 27:00
  with our friend Ian. Naveen stood up and asked Gary
• 27:04
  Russell why they made the appalling decision to whitewash
• 27:08
  the So. It's not whitewash what I'm
• 27:10
  talking about to make it racially acceptable.
• 27:13
  Fuck off, Jeremy J, All those old lot.
• 27:16
  I mean, they can all fuck off. I remember seeing them all lose
• 27:20
  their shit over a woman doctor. Like all the old, not all of
• 27:24
  them. I'm not talking about Keith Barn
• 27:25
  father who's a lovely man or Kevin Davis or David J Ha, but
• 27:28
  there's a group of them and a couple of whom were on the who's
• 27:31
  the remembering who's Doctor Who documentary.
• 27:34
  And if you go on their Facebook groups, they're a bunch of stock
• 27:37
  up old assholes who are part of the problem with the sort of
• 27:42
  perceived wisdom of fandom because they created all the
• 27:44
  first perceived wisdoms. And they're just a bunch of
• 27:47
  stuck in the past old gifts who think Doctor Who finished in
• 27:49
  1979. So fuck you, Jeremy I.
• 27:53
  Don't disagree, you know, No, I was, I was so appalled.
• 27:56
  And I've got into a massive row with someone on on Twitter who
• 27:59
  was saying, you know, it should represent exactly what was on
• 28:03
  the screen in 1960 or whatever. So I asked the question, do you
• 28:06
  genuinely think they should animate these characters as if
• 28:09
  they've got sticky tape pulling back their eyes?
• 28:12
  And he said yes, the fella, not Jeremy Benford.
• 28:14
  This, whoever it was I was talking to.
• 28:17
  I mean, fuck those people, they're all going to be dead
• 28:20
  soon anyway. I love how you can just dismiss
• 28:23
  whole swings of fandom. I don't.
• 28:25
  Like it? And then you have to like me.
• 28:28
  Oh, new fish people. That actually looks like a bit
• 28:31
  like a fish. I mean, I've got a soft spot for
• 28:34
  the original fish people and I think the idea is such a
• 28:36
  fantastic one. Like obviously there's the
• 28:40
  famous picture, but I love the fact that there's some of them
• 28:42
  that are just in snorkels and stuff like that who are sort of
• 28:45
  mid transition because they're quite a gruesome concept.
• 28:49
  They've just turned people into turned people into these fish
• 28:53
  things to mine plankton. Is that basically what they're
• 28:56
  doing? That's their role, yeah.
• 28:58
  To to create the food for a bit. I think you remember we talked
• 29:02
  about the original Sidemen, the 10th planet.
• 29:04
  Yeah. That sort of face, like a a
• 29:06
  scream. Yeah, they're a bit like that.
• 29:08
  Aren't they like the most famous one that's on all the stills and
• 29:11
  on the Target book has got sort of the downturn makeup smile,
• 29:14
  and it makes them look really sad.
• 29:15
  Yeah. So I've got a soft spot for
• 29:18
  them. I do like the reinvention here
• 29:19
  to make them a bit more fishy and a bit less.
• 29:21
  A bit more fishy. Yeah, well.
• 29:23
  That's what they look like. I just like all the stuck on the
• 29:26
  scales. They've got the original but.
• 29:29
  I like the fact there's like a form of evolution, so some of
• 29:31
  them been down there ages and you can see that they've adapted
• 29:34
  to it and others are, you know, still evolving.
• 29:37
  Ah, now this is the one of the first appearances here of
• 29:40
  someone in a wetsuit in this. Yeah.
• 29:42
  And I've got to say, this is hamster.
• 29:44
  Bear in mind that there are some impressive bulges.
• 29:47
  Yeah. Whoever was in charge of anime
• 29:49
  in the bulges of the wetsuits, I salute you.
• 29:53
  Oh, she gives a lovely performance in the original.
• 29:56
  The woman who plays Ara. Yeah.
• 29:57
  She doesn't look like that in the original though, does she?
• 30:01
  No, they've made it look a lot more Star Trek that.
• 30:05
  That Patrick original series. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 30:07
  It's it's that sort of 60s like pop colour, isn't it?
• 30:12
  Yeah, exactly. Is this the have we missed the
• 30:16
  You're not turning me into a fish?
• 30:18
  She gets a bit of leverage out of that line later on, she says
• 30:21
  the birthday, we're going to turn me into a fish.
• 30:26
  I've got some trivia you know about Patrick Troughton's
• 30:29
  opinion on this story and excitement around, but I'm going
• 30:32
  to wait till Episode 2. Oh, that's in a few seconds time
• 30:36
  actually. No, I think that was a good
• 30:39
  episode one. Yeah, yeah, I think it hasn't
• 30:43
  gone balls to the walls. Crazy as.
• 30:45
  We're jumping straight into two. Oh.
• 30:46
  Jesus Christ, I better stop the episode here then.
• 30:48
  Well, we'll be back soon, Phone.