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The Bushcamp Company - Pioneers of the Walking Safari · GowayPro Travel Tales

• 0:01
  Thank you for joining GoWayPro's Travel Tales podcast.
• 0:04
  First off, there was a technical issue when recording this podcast so the audio quality is not at the usual high level.
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  Our apologies.
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  In Zambia's iconic South Luangra National Park, the bush camp company operates six exclusive bush camps in the remote south of the park, as well as the award-winning Mwefe
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  Lodge just inside the main park gate.
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  From a vehicle you see Africa.
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  On foot you feel, hear and smell Africa.
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  Set out from any of these secluded, intimate camps and you will be guaranteed an unrivalled wildlife experience in one of the last unspoiled wilderness regions of Africa,
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  the very place where the African walking safari was pioneered.
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  Join Andy Hogg as he walks you through what the Bush Camp Company can offer in the less discovered Zambia.
• 1:03
  I'm Don, Professor Goaay and welcome to the GoaayPro Travel Tales Podcast.
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  uh
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  gravel fart and gravel often.
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  uh
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  Today I'm talking to Andy Hogg who represents Bush Camps.
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  Is that the full name or is it Bush Camps?
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  Bush Camp Company.
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  uh They are stunning camps located in Zambia.
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  So Andy, first can you tell us where Zambia is located for those who may not know the geography of Southern uh Africa and then also a little bit about yourself and then in turn
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  the Bush Camp Company.
• 1:49
  Thank you.
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  Thanks, Dan.
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  Thanks very much.
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  So we're based in Zambia, which is sort of central Africa, below the DRC and above Zimbabwe.
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  Is it term southern or central Africa?
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  Geographically speaking.
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  it's a difficult one.
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  If you look at all the books, the bird books, most of the bird books stop at the top of Zimbabwe and then we go into central Africa.
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  So central, east, southern, it sort of fits in there somewhere.
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  They've about us sometimes.
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  I guess you also get lumped because you sit on the border with Zimbabwe and in turn Victoria Falls so that's obviously a big focal point for people when they think Zambia
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  they think only Victoria Falls but obviously there's much more to the country than just their portion of Victoria Falls.
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  Exactly, there's an incredible wildlife resource and if you looked or spoke to industry or wildlife specialists and spoke about areas like the South Luangwa National Park where we
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  are based, it's one of Africa's top iconic national parks.
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  There's certainly a few of them but the South Luangwa is certainly in that iconic brand of African national parks.
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  Okay, so again, for those who may be new, we do have a lot of new people to the industry.
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  uh Southern Africa, again, people will go to the big countries of South Africa, Botswana, Namibia, and Zimbabwe, I guess.
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  So people will look at getting to their Cape Town, primarily with Johannesburg.
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  uh To get to Zambia, what's the main gateway in and out and how otherwise would you connect into Zambia?
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  Yeah, it's really quite easy.
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  So from the north, which would be Emirates or Qatar, Ethiopian Airways, Kenyan Airways, so all of them, so from Emirates, Qatar, Ethiopian and Kenyan, all fly directly into Lusaka
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  from
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  is north of Lusaka.
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  And then from the south there's a Zambian company called ProFlight that flies directly from Johannesburg into Lusaka.
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  AirLink, which is a South African carrier, flies directly into Lusaka and so does South African Airways.
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  any direct flights from North America into the South?
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  No direct flights directly, no.
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  There is now just a flight being launched over the last couple of months from La Saca to Cape Town.
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  That links Cape Town as well, so that's going to be very good for us.
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  Okay and of course the other way and probably popular ways is from Zimbabwe Victoria Falls across the border into the Zambian Victorian Falls and onwards.
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  Correct, yes.
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  And Emirates flies into Lusaka and then flies to Harare and so does Qatar.
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  um So that links both the countries as well.
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  So it's very easy to...
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  Okay then, so my understanding is Zambia is a country where the first to pioneer or did pioneer the walking safari.
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  that correct?
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  How does that differ from a traditional safari or what people would consider a traditional safari?
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  Yeah, correct.
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  So Zambia started with the home of walking safaris.
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  It was the first country that did walking safaris.
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  And over time, that's obviously become, you know, with people wanting a little bit more activity and not just sitting in a vehicle, it's become much more popular and people
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  wanting to do that, or at least doing a combination of walking and driving, which I think we cover that really well.
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  But yeah, it's a different experience.
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  In a vehicle, if you're driving along and you're not seeing anything, you can drive a little bit further, a little bit quicker, and you'll find something.
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  You'll find a herd of buffalo, you'll find elephant.
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  But obviously, on a walk, you can't do that.
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  So a walk, it's about the guide, the quality of the guide from an information point of view, from a storytelling point of view, but also from a safety point of view.
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  So that's vital.
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  It's about the smallest of the birds, the bees, the trees, and there's an alarm call.
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  And, you know, so it's the whole story that can get told and created around what's happening and the noises and the calls and...
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  So would it be fair to say that a walking safari is a more intimate way of exploring the bush in Africa or in Zambia in this instance?
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  Yeah, I think so.
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  I think if you're able to do a combination of both, that's the ideal.
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  You mentioned safety.
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  again, people's, guess, who's never done it before, initially thought would be walking without outside of a vehicle because often you hear that predators, particularly or
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  wildlife, they see the vehicle as one unit, so to speak, and that's often not a threat to them.
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  But a whole lot of people walking along might be viewed differently.
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  So I would assume that while the safaris get you into the middle of it all, it's never in a situation that could again, bushwalking in Africa, always inherent what ifs, goods.
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  But in general, it's a safe experience.
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  Yeah, 100%.
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  And I think that is the quality of the guiding, is the quality of the training of the guides.
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  It's not about trying to get 20 meters from an elephant.
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  You want to sit and observe it, and if you can do that from 50 or 60 meters away, and you can just sit there quietly and observe them interacting with each other, that's beautiful.
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  That's incredible.
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  And if you push it and you get too close, they're going to move away, which is not the objective.
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  generally wildlife in general, big or small, the closer you get, they get away.
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  That's a rarity.
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  They're to come at you.
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  on that note, um when you do a walking safari, are you expecting to see larger game or is it more about like elephants, are for the most part, I would say docile but tranquil, but
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  like, know, rhino or lion or anything like that?
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  Like, it, is there a likelihood you would see that type of game on a walking safari?
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  Yeah, most definitely.
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  And again the safety aspect is uh good as in you wouldn't do it unless it wasn't.
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  Yeah, I think the Luangwa, and I can't talk to all areas, but the Luangwa offers itself for safe walking.
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  You know, it's reasonably open.
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  You walk where there's water.
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  Where there's water, there's obviously going to be game.
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  So you walk in the right areas, you know, and it's flat and it's easy walking.
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  And it's not about, you know, a route march.
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  It's basically the slower you walk, the less noise you're going to make, the more you're going to see.
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  So it's moving along nicely, quietly sitting, watching, observing.
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  and you'll cover a few kilometres.
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  Okay, so you answered a couple of questions I was going to ask.
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  So from a logistics point of view, someone's never done this before, or talking to their client to explain it to them.
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  I would assume from the lodge you're staying at, you're also of course, Bushcamps, you were driven to a point where you start your walk.
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  It's relatively flat.
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  It's a couple of kilometres on average.
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  um
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  So I guess like most things in Africa, it be a morning and or an afternoon option, generally not during the day.
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  And I just did see, because we have all our partners here presenting, saw a bit of Andy's presentation, a beautiful bit of video where a walking group walk to a lunch spot, I think
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  it is, in a river, like a very low level river.
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  That looks stunning.
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  So are your walks sort of walk, return to the lodge or is it walk and like I saw on the video, have lunch in the bush somewhere, in combination.
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  So I think it's a combination of, you you'll often get the guide in the morning.
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  So you've decided what you're going to do, whether you're going to drive or you're going to walk in the morning.
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  excuse me, whoever's going to walk, em the guide would possibly or potentially come in the morning and say, did you hear the lions calling in the west or the north or the east?
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  And everybody would say yes.
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  And you'd say, right, let's get in the vehicle.
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  Let's drive there.
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  And then we can get out and walk.
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  Or you would walk directly from camp.
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  And then we have another option is that we walk between camps.
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  So somebody is at Camp A going to Camp B, we walk between the camps.
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  So it's one way of transferring between the camps.
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  And that's about a three to four hour activity.
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  So it's a safari, it's a walk, but you're going from Camp 1 to Camp 2.
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  And then, sorry, then just, yeah.
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  And those, the specials like you were referring to in the river, yes, definitely we do those specials.
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  We have a few of them that are all surprises that you walk into or drive into.
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  Okay, that was my other question.
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  we are focusing on walking safaris, but from the Bush Camp Company, you are doing both vehicle based and walking based safaris from your camp.
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  So now you also mentioned from Camp 1 to Camp 2.
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  Can you give us an idea of the structure of the Bush Camp Company and its accommodation and how it's laid out?
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  So we've got two lodges um and the two lodges are in the main Mfu'i area, so that's about 35 to 40 minutes from an international airport.
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  We pick you up there, we bring you into the national park and our two lodges, one is called Mfu'i Lodge and the other one is called Kukai'a.
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  That's based in the Mfu'i area and then we have six bush camps that are in the south of the national park.
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  Okay so a lodge to a bush camp is the difference is what a lodge I guess is a solid building in very general terms.
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  I think probably for us the definition would be larger and smaller.
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  And potential structure as well.
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  mean our bush camps are not generally proper structure, they're or...
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  But permanent, correct.
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  Exactly, exactly.
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  In the bush camps there, we are in south of the National Park, there is nobody else that operates in that area, which I think is a very important point for us it is.
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  Nobody else can develop that area.
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  So that makes the experience that we able to offer quite unique inside a National Park.
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  Each of the bush camps sleep between six or eight people or three or four rooms, so they're really small, they're intimate.
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  camp is like for one booking, one reservation, or it could, there could be three couples on that particular camp.
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  Exactly, it varies from individual travelers to couples to small groups to honeymoons to small to family groups taking a whole camp or friends groups taking a whole camp so it's
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  the whole spectrum.
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  So again, you think Lodge, when I think Lodge, it has a restaurant bar, all the facilities to the camps have the same structure but on a smaller scale as in restaurant bar or other
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  way.
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  And their own staff there as well.
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  Own staff, chefs, waiters, managers, barmen.
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  It's just exactly what you said.
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  It's just on a smaller scale.
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  So it's basically, yeah, so it's a lodge versus the camp and they're just self-sufficient in regards to tourism.
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  And from those, same thing, vehicles, safaris and or walking safaris.
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  Nice.
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  Okay then.
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  If someone heads into Zambia in general, but obviously in your region, what wildlife are they expecting to see?
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  The usual suspects, the big five, if all the stars
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  to see the big five are equal in Zambia and your area as they are anywhere else in southern and east Africa?
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  I
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  I definitely say that the South Luangwa is equal to any other wildlife destination.
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  It's often been described as the Valley of the Elephants, and if you looked up on the internet, the Luangwa would come up.
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  If you looked up leopard sightings, the Luangwa would certainly come up in the top few.
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  We currently have, and over the last sort 10 years, an incredible wild dog population.
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  We've got a carnival
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  Zambian carnival project that operates there that's been incredibly effective.
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  don't know, wildlife-wise is exceptional.
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  So it would also be fair to say that...
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  When a novice, be it a travel agent out there new to the industry or a consumer looking at Southern Africa, Central, in your case, um they will get drawn to the bigger names, let's
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  say South Africa, Zimbabwe, Botswana.
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  um By that nature, therefore, traveling to Zambia is a bit more, I don't say off the beaten track, like the services and levels of service are equal, um but let's say less
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  traffic than the bigger in Southern and even Eastern Africa.
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  So you might be getting
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  more of an older school experience.
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  that a fair statement?
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  Yeah, I like the description of the beaten track.
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  It's quite nice.
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  And I think it is.
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  It's a remoter, smaller experience, but definitely not one of the mainstream.
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  But I think from experience point of view, from comfort point of view, it certainly equals any of the others.
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  I think from a rate point of view, Zambia is very well placed.
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  as in good value.
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  So is Zambia more affordable than its bigger neighbors?
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  It depends where, obviously, it depends what camps.
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  But yes, I'm not saying more affordable.
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  It's a bigger country than some of the others, so your flights are a little bit longer.
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  But I think generally, um if you compared and if you did a price comparison with some of our neighbors, we certainly, from what is offered and what you...
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  what you receive on the ground is good value as an experience, as in comfort and in right, in spend.
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  So um an experience at the Bush Camp Company, one of its properties, lodges or camps, it's, you mentioned being picked up from the airport.
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  So it's an all-inclusive structure from pick up to drop off at the airport or wherever the transfer may go to, which means all safaris, food, is alcohol included or is that?
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  It's all included.
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  Okay, that's good to know.
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  um
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  Now again, I just saw a bit of Andy's presentation and there's a beautiful photo of, okay, so backtrack.
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  You mentioned that the area is known for elephants and now I lead into Andy's presentation where he had an image of elephants walking through the main lodge.
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  Was that the main lodge?
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  Correct.
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  Yeah, so literally elephants, was a mother and her calf in the foreground and three or four in the background, literally walking up what looked like a central corridor of the
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  lodge uh on route to eat.
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  So it's a wild mango fruit.
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  So it's not the normal traditional mangoes that we would eat, but it is a wild mango tree.
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  And it's already started to flower.
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  The fruits have started to drop.
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  So every year at this time of the year, within a couple of weeks, depending on when the fruit is ripe and falls, for about two months, these elephants, and there's a number of
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  them.
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  They're certainly not one herd.
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  They come at different times.
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  um
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  They come through the reception.
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  There's two three different ways to get there.
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  All of them are not easy.
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  All of them involve climbing upstairs or walking through a properly constructed reception area.
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  So you're walking through something with a roof and a concrete floor.
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  um
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  They walk through there and they go to this big wild mango tree, which is in a courtyard where people can sort of encounter and experience elephants really very close and up close
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  and up.
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  tree
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  always there in the largest
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  Yeah, the tree's been there from the beginning.
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  And the lodge was built with, I mean, the tree, when we first started the business 35 years ago, for the first 10 years, nothing, no elephants would come through.
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  So for the last 15, 20 years.
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  it's somewhat of a new, like it wasn't happening, or that tree wasn't popular at the time for some reason.
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  Is there reason it became popular with the elephants?
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  think it was one matriarch, one female elephant that originally came across it and that became their tree.
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  Wild mangoes are a delicacy to lots of different animals, including other elephants.
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  And whenever there's wild mango trees and there's four or five around the lodge outside the property, uh
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  So once the mangoes are falling, there's constant activity around the trees.
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  But she, I think, she decided that this was her tree and she decided that her family, so they would come in and they could have as much wild mango as they wanted.
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  And I think since then, some of the youngsters have grown up and moved out and now they bring their family.
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  So I think it all originated from her.
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  But I think, my thinking is that it was their tree.
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  And the ones that didn't follow her didn't come through.
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  And it's just sort of grown from there.
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  uh
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  So this is an annual thing though around where are we now October November normally.
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  Yeah, ending sort of halfway through December, a little bit later in December.
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  As I said before, wildlife can never be guaranteed, but this is pretty much a guaranteed event, not to the day, but at least to this particular time period, you will get elephants
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  walking literally through the middle of your life.
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  Yeah.
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  Right.
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  So people want to go and experience that because that's October, mid December.
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  Yeah.
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  You saw that little baby following its mother through.
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  So that was last year.
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  now, I mean, now that there was two babies in fact last year, so those two babies have now learned to come through.
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  So this just extends.
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  I guess a lot of reasonably high for them to know their height so they know what they can get under and not get under.
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  And that area that they walk through is very high so there's no issue.
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  But there is one area where the thatch comes down and there's a big bull that can't, you saw the big bull scratching, well it's scratching its back or head on the grass there, on
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  the thatch.
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  There's one area where the big, big bulls, they can go through but they sort of have to move under the thatch little bit.
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  But apart from the big bulls they...
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  They're all fine.
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  And is there a way around?
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  they're too big to get through, they can go around the outside, so to speak?
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  There's two other ways for them to get there and 80 to 90 percent of the time they walk through the reception area.
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  I can't tell you why they do that, that they come through there.
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  One of the babies the year before last, because we get quite warm at this time of the year and obviously concrete is quite nice and cool and the baby decided that lying in the
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  middle of the reception area was the right thing to do and the rest would go and eat and the baby would sleep.
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  content to lead the baby.
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  was fine, mum would go and eat and the baby, and then when mum was finished eating or the herd was finished, they would, we've got footage of the mum just sort of tapping, walking
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  past and sort of tapping and the baby waking up and carrying on.
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  It is incredible time, you see, it's the most, you can hear this last year with the babies, you could hear the parents and especially the mother communicating with the baby.
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  It was incredible.
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  mean, it trunked around it, comforting it.
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  You could hear the communication going on.
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  It was just...
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  Very special.
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  It was special.
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  So again, I think you pointed out in your presentation, these are wild elephants.
• 21:38
  So while they're for the most part tranquil, your guess would be the respectful distance, but not too close for obvious reasons.
• 21:47
  100%.
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  We have staff that over the years have become, I mean they're trained and they keep everybody away and you know people just sit and observe.
• 21:56
  yes, now it's definitely something that we need to take into account and we need to consider but the staff are very good and I think most people are good as well.
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  They understand that it's wild.
• 22:13
  Thailand last year with an Asian elephant and they're small than African and they were big enough to know you don't want to get too close to an elephant even when they're just being
• 22:21
  cool about it.
• 22:22
  So I was speaking to Warren Green earlier today about conservation in Africa in general so off the back of the fact that you are one of only people operating in the area you're in,
• 22:32
  the elephant's coming through your front door, do you have some conservation projects or involvement at the Bush Pound Company?
• 22:39
  So it's a big part of who we are, what we do, why we do it, and I often start a presentation with the why, and that's what we start with.
• 22:49
  I think it's vital that communities benefit from the area that they live in.
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  And it's complicated.
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  It's not an easy discussion.
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  I believe that communities need to benefit and if communities benefit we have a much better chance of saving an area than not saving the area.
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  So for 30 years, 30 years plus, we've done all sorts of projects and we continue to do.
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  We currently feed 4,000 school kids one meal a day.
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  We've put...
• 23:27
  through revenues generated through the Bush Camp company like foreign tourists coming in enjoying the time at your place.
• 23:33
  Some of those funds are redirected back.
• 23:35
  to the community.
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  100 % correct.
• 23:38
  Some of the revenue is included in the rate.
• 23:41
  We redirect it to these projects.
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  We have a little key ring, which we call key rings for conservation, which we sell in our curi shop.
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  All those proceeds go to the projects.
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  We also add it to a once-off, an amount to the invoice.
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  And then when the clients arrive, they get given
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  It's not from us, it's from the agent as little thank you as a present.
• 24:12
  For us at least, it opens the door for a discussion and I think more importantly, it tells people that whoever the agent is that's booking us, between the two of us in the
• 24:25
  relationship, we're both trying to do the right thing.
• 24:27
  And I think we both all agree that doing the right thing is the community and conservation.
• 24:31
  And that's all together, it's the same project.
• 24:36
  So I your key ring is of an elephant, so is that one of your focal points on protecting the elephants in your region?
• 24:43
  Yeah, you know, the elephants that walk through the reception.
• 24:46
  that's kind of where it all started.
• 24:49
  em And yes, some of the money goes into anti-poaching and a big part of that is the elephant.
• 24:57
  poaching as big an issue in Zambia, more less so than other regions of eastern South Africa, southern Africa.
• 25:05
  I think it's an issue all over.
• 25:08
  I think we're a little bit lucky, but we're in the middle of Africa, so it's not that easy to move stuff out.
• 25:16
  But there's certainly issues, whether it's poaching to make money or whether it's poaching to feed, at the end of the day, there's a problem.
• 25:29
  um
• 25:30
  And it's all over.
• 25:31
  It's something that...
• 25:32
  But there's a bigger picture.
• 25:34
  The governments need to be involved with the communities.
• 25:37
  They need to be educating, they need to be feeding.
• 25:41
  And it's good for us to do it, we want to do it, but on a bigger scale, the governments need to also be getting involved to do this.
• 25:49
  Okay, at the Bushcan company or the bush camps themselves lodges and camps, what would be a typical day or a typical stay?
• 26:00
  how long would should someone stay on your property?
• 26:06
  So we're very fortunate, we've got eight camps.
• 26:09
  We have an average stay, roughly an average stay through the year of about seven nights.
• 26:14
  Wow, that long.
• 26:15
  Yeah.
• 26:16
  And I think it's probably important, you know, once you start flying around, it's costing you more money, you know, and you've still got your accommodation charge, but you've got
• 26:24
  your flights, but you're also consuming time.
• 26:28
  Yes.
• 26:28
  And I think once you get into Luanguang, with us, there's certainly enough camps to do it, but there's other companies and other camps
• 26:35
  m If you want to go to a different area you can.
• 26:37
  So think getting to our area, once you're there, you need to spend seven, eight nights.
• 26:43
  Yeah, time.
• 26:46
  And so what's a typical day like for someone who's with you?
• 26:49
  Yeah, wake up early depending on the time of year, whether it's winter or summer, the sun rise, but early morning activity, whether that's a drive or a walk.
• 26:59
  So it's like an early breakfast in shared, or not shared, the common dining area, which most lodges are set up.
• 27:08
  It's common dining area.
• 27:09
  So breakfast there with prep, then you head off on your.
• 27:13
  on your activity, whichever that might be.
• 27:16
  We obviously discussed vehicle safaris and walking safaris.
• 27:20
  What other options or activities are offered at the Bush Gang Company?
• 27:24
  We've got the walking, we've got the driving, we've got night drive, which is obviously at night.
• 27:28
  And then if people want to do the community projects and conservation stuff, they can do that.
• 27:32
  Right, again, guests can get involved in giving back directly by helping at schools.
• 27:39
  Yeah, or at least going to see, or you know, we get a lot of people just wanting to take their kids, know, just sort of show their kids how lucky, how lucky their kids would be.
• 27:48
  you get a lot of families?
• 27:49
  Do you get a lot of groups?
• 27:51
  Yes.
• 27:51
  You do?
• 27:52
  Okay, because Galway has a very good groups department, so that's a good thing to know about.
• 27:56
  Any birders out there?
• 27:58
  I'm assuming there's good birding in your area?
• 28:01
  Yeah, we've got some beautiful birding.
• 28:04
  About 450, 480 species of birds, so it's good.
• 28:09
  Fishing?
• 28:11
  We've got some fishing, but I don't think you would come to us to fish.
• 28:14
  There's other places in Zambia that would be better than us.
• 28:18
  But, I mean, there's fish, but it's not a good idea.
• 28:24
  And do you do any, I know some lodgers do this in the South and East, do you any photography workshops or tips or have any particular walking or game drives that go out
• 28:36
  with photography in I know Africa is photography in general, but you know.
• 28:40
  Yeah, we do.
• 28:41
  So good question.
• 28:42
  We've got a photographic vehicle which has got no sides.
• 28:46
  So you can basically lie flat to get different heights or angles with your photographs.
• 28:53
  We have some specialized photographic guides.
• 28:57
  We've got an in-house photographer who is a young Zambian guy who's very good and he is able to go out with people.
• 29:05
  He's also able to help.
• 29:06
  um
• 29:09
  We've got a, uh next to the library, we've got a specially set up photographic studio where groups can meet and a lot of the photographers use that.
• 29:19
  So there's a photography group there.
• 29:21
  You use that little area that can be set up in a classroom style.
• 29:26
  um But there's a big screen TV in there where you can project images and they can be discussed.
• 29:34
  So that's next to the library.
• 29:36
  We call it the photographic studio.
• 29:38
  I was going to ask because often places have...
• 29:42
  what you're mentioning a photographer and stuff but then at the end of the day, I always have nowhere to sort of download, share and that but you have all those facilities as
• 29:49
  well.
• 29:50
  Excellent.
• 29:51
  Okay, then.
• 29:51
  Is there anything else you'd like to emphasize highlight about the Bushcan Company?
• 29:56
  Now, again, this is a podcast, you're not seeing anything visually here.
• 29:59
  But again, I saw Andy's presentation and the camp I think I saw the last part, I think was the camps you were highlighting.
• 30:06
  They're stunning.
• 30:08
  Right on rivers, treehouse esque, designed to
• 30:12
  the camps?
• 30:13
  that fair?
• 30:16
  Okay, just give us give the listeners an idea of what the lodgings like because Africa can be very much about the lodge where it's located, like the earth lodge underground, tree
• 30:26
  houses up in Eastern Africa.
• 30:29
  as much as you can, how would you describe the architecture of your camps and lodge?
• 30:33
  So what we've tried to do from a bush camp point of view, we've tried to, I mean the first rule is to keep them small.
• 30:39
  um And then we've tried to make each one as different as possible so the stay between all of the camps is different.
• 30:47
  So the structure, the materials that have been used from canvas to thatch to um little poles that we call laths, they're sort of thinnest poles that can make nice walls.
• 31:01
  So some of them are raised off the ground, some of them are raised nearly three meters off the ground, which is the treehouse effect.
• 31:07
  um They've all got big decks, they've got great views.
• 31:11
  um So they're all good views, different areas, different styles, different materials that have been built with.
• 31:19
  um But the main theme through it is the size, is the remoteness, is the hospitality.
• 31:28
  is the quality of the guiding, is the flexibility as in a walk or drive, and they certainly are comfortable.
• 31:36
  And they're more than comfortable, as you could see in the photographs, but I'm not saying to people come because of the comfort.
• 31:44
  I'm saying come for the experience, and the comfort level is certainly there.
• 31:48
  Come for the experience of...
• 31:50
  of that lunch in the river, come for the wildlife and come for the quality of guides and also come for the community and conservation efforts that are going on.
• 31:58
  And as much as we take money out of the rate to do it, we need people to come.
• 32:05
  We need the bums in the beds to continue to do those projects.
• 32:10
  And again, I don't think anyone out there would have any issues with portions of their funds going back into local communities.
• 32:18
  It wasn't, yeah, I think more more people actually would like to do that first, being pushed upon them.
• 32:25
  Now, just before we finish up, you mentioned you can walk between the camps.
• 32:29
  So if someone was with you for seven or eight nights, would they pick one camp and stay there, or would they switch camps?
• 32:35
  And if switching camps, why would they switch camps?
• 32:42
  Peace.
• 32:43
  no hard and fast rule why you shouldn't stay in a camp for seven nights and I often think longer is better.
• 32:49
  You get to know the staff, get to know the area.
• 32:53
  You don't feel like if you don't go on a drive in the morning, you're probably going to see stuff.
• 32:59
  You're not losing out on anything.
• 33:00
  So longer is better, I think it works.
• 33:03
  We generally have people probably three nights, two to three nights in a camp.
• 33:07
  So over a seven night they would do two or three different camps with potentially one or two nights.
• 33:13
  in the main lodge area and that's the area that's closest to the airport.
• 33:17
  So it's a mixture of wood and...
• 33:20
  And if someone moves from one camp to the other, could, as you say, walk between or would be encouraged to walk and all their luggage would be transferred by vehicle for them.
• 33:40
  if they do activities every morning as in a walk, they don't have to do the walk to make up for, to try and do extra walking.
• 33:48
  You still can do a good amount of walking even if you don't walk between the caps.
• 33:53
  But it's certainly, think, really important for me and for the rest of Zambia, is Zambia is certainly not only a walking destination.
• 34:00
  That was 20 years, 30 years ago when it all started.
• 34:05
  Zambia became known as the home of walking.
• 34:08
  And then a lot of people
• 34:10
  Even today we get people saying, well I don't want to walk.
• 34:13
  Or some people, I that gets less and less as people walk.
• 34:18
  And it's certainly not just walking.
• 34:20
  The driving is the same as in any other country, you know, the driving safari.
• 34:25
  Wonderful.
• 34:26
  Okay, well Andy, thank you very much for your time today.
• 34:28
  Appreciate it.
• 34:30
  For everyone out there listening, GoA obviously has the Bushcan Company product in our system.
• 34:38
  As Andy said, on average, seven nights stay is what seems to be the most common.
• 34:43
  Is there a minimum night?
• 34:45
  No.
• 34:45
  No minimums and I wish you no maximums.
• 34:48
  Okay, so you can stay as short or as long as you want.
• 34:52
  But again, from Andy's first hand experience, obviously, the
• 34:55
  longer in one area, seven nights, makes it more enjoyable and of course, the Wange and Zanrhe a little bit more removed from other areas.
• 35:04
  probably from a cost point of view getting there and really getting quality time over bouncing around.
• 35:19
  some camps in Zambia and you put them in other countries, they certainly would be more expensive.
• 35:28
  All countries are wonderful.
• 35:30
  sell Zambia, sell as hard as you want.
• 35:33
  So basically what Andy's saying very politely is Zambia is probably going be more affordable as well.
• 35:37
  ah So that's another good reason to consider it.
• 35:40
  And regardless, even outside of the Bushcan Company, Zambia as a country is amazing and should be given a bit more time than it probably is at the moment.
• 35:48
  ah But definitely if you're heading to Zambia, head to the Bushcan Company.
• 35:52
  And again, Andy, thank you very much for your time.
• 35:53
  Thanks very much Don, thanks for everybody listening.
• 35:56
  No problem.
• 35:57
  Thank you.