Latest / Podcast on the Brink / POTB 529: Early impressions of the DeVries era with Scott Caulfield

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POTB 529: Early impressions of the DeVries era with Scott Caulfield · Podcast on the Brink

0:16
Speaker 1: Welcome back to a new episode of Podcasts on the Brink.
0:20
Speaker 1: It's Friday, May twenty third, big sports weekend coming up
0:26
Speaker 1: in the state of Indiana. No better man to help
0:29
Speaker 1: us talk about that and also some Indiana basketball talk.
0:33
Speaker 1: Scott Caulfield of Crimson Cast is back on this week's
0:37
Speaker 1: episode of podcast on the Brink. Before we get to
0:40
Speaker 1: Scott wanted to take a quick moment remind you that
0:43
Speaker 1: this episode of Podcasts on the Brink brought to you
0:44
Speaker 1: of our friends at Visit Bloomington. Just because basketball season
0:48
Speaker 1: is over doesn't mean the fun stops. Spring is the
0:50
Speaker 1: perfect time to explore everything Bloomington has to offer. Hike
0:52
Speaker 1: the trails at Griffy Lake Nature Preserve, then refuel with
0:56
Speaker 1: local flavors on tap it Up in Brewing Company, and
0:58
Speaker 1: don't forget about the many music festivals coming to Bloomington
1:01
Speaker 1: this spring. Whether you're in the outdoor adventures, food, or
1:04
Speaker 1: just relaxing in a vibrant college town, Visit Bloomington's got
1:06
Speaker 1: you covered. Start planning your spring getaway now at visit
1:10
Speaker 1: Bloomington dot com. Scott this weekend, Bloomington's is not really
1:15
Speaker 1: the place to be. It's Indianapolis. We've got believe I
1:18
Speaker 1: saw the five hundred What gets underway Sunday afternoon, twelve
1:22
Speaker 1: forty five, I believe.
1:23
Speaker 2: Twelve forty five. Great first off, Alex, Great to talk
1:26
Speaker 2: to you. Happy to be on Yeah, twelve forty five
1:28
Speaker 2: Green Flight. I mean, but the great thing is you
1:30
Speaker 2: can be in Bloomington because the race is now the
1:33
Speaker 2: blackout is lifted. If you're in Bloomington, you can watch
1:36
Speaker 2: it on Fox. Go then go to like you know,
1:38
Speaker 2: Lake Lemon or Lake Monroe, go hang out a little
1:40
Speaker 2: bit and then go check out the pacers that night
1:42
Speaker 2: and you good to go.
1:43
Speaker 1: Let me ask you something about the blackout because I've
1:45
Speaker 1: always read, you know, someone that doesn't live up there
1:49
Speaker 1: not really been affected by that. How how big of
1:52
Speaker 1: a deal is that? Is that change? And what do
1:56
Speaker 1: you know about like why that finally was lifted?
2:00
Speaker 2: Well, it was lifted this year because they sold all
2:02
Speaker 2: the grandstand seats. I mean, you could do an entire
2:06
Speaker 2: podcast on this, and I know a lot of it,
2:09
Speaker 2: but you know, it goes back to the race was
2:12
Speaker 2: always on radio, and it's up to kind of ims
2:15
Speaker 2: to say when they've sold all of the seats and
2:17
Speaker 2: that whether they also count infield seats or not is
2:21
Speaker 2: up for debate, and I you know, what I've always
2:23
Speaker 2: heard is that it was partially the The TV broadcast
2:26
Speaker 2: partners at the time was ABC for years, and then
2:29
Speaker 2: the IMS would sell the radio rights, and they sold
2:31
Speaker 2: them under the idea of like, hey, we're never gonna
2:34
Speaker 2: You're never gonna be on TV. So the radio rights
2:36
Speaker 2: are worth a lot more than they should be in
2:38
Speaker 2: the Indianapolis market. And then in twenty sixteen, the one
2:41
Speaker 2: hundredth running of the race, they sold out the entire
2:44
Speaker 2: thing and they lifted the blackout because there was even
2:46
Speaker 2: questions if IMS would ever even say if they ever
2:50
Speaker 2: sold everything, because it's you know, Kurk Cabin of the
2:52
Speaker 2: Indie Star. This is you know, ten fifteen years ago,
2:55
Speaker 2: actually drove around the track and counted all the seats.
2:58
Speaker 2: Because that's the only real indication we have. IMS doesn't
3:01
Speaker 2: really publish, you assembly halls, what seventeen thousand, five hundred
3:04
Speaker 2: and seventy one or whatever. I even publish what the
3:07
Speaker 2: full seating capacity of IMS is. It's always approximately this,
3:11
Speaker 2: so it's kind of up to their discretion. I So
3:15
Speaker 2: the short answer is they sold all the seats and
3:17
Speaker 2: that's contractually how they do it. You know, I do
3:20
Speaker 2: wonder it's a first year the race is going to
3:23
Speaker 2: be on Fox, and you know you're getting to a
3:26
Speaker 2: point where you know, the race was on NBC. It
3:28
Speaker 2: used to be on Peacock. They started to do geo fencing.
3:31
Speaker 2: But people can use VPNs to get around it, Like
3:33
Speaker 2: I do wonder if they've just kind of been like, look,
3:35
Speaker 2: we're we need to get our arms around this thing.
3:38
Speaker 2: It's not going to change, and this is going to
3:39
Speaker 2: help give Fox a real boost in numbers, because what's
3:43
Speaker 2: silly about it? It made sense fifteen twenty years ago. But
3:45
Speaker 2: you know, nobody wants to listen to it on the
3:47
Speaker 2: radio like maybe seventies and eighties do.
3:50
Speaker 3: I don't.
3:51
Speaker 2: You know, people want to go to the race, but
3:53
Speaker 2: you know you're gonna get a huge TV number because
3:56
Speaker 2: most of your race fans are in the Indianapolis area.
3:59
Speaker 2: The last thing I'll say that IMS has done a
4:01
Speaker 2: good job on this. I'm sure people are like we
4:03
Speaker 2: just skipped, like put a timestamp talk I you basketball
4:05
Speaker 2: stop talking racing. The thing that IMS has done A
4:08
Speaker 2: and Penske and and they've done a really good job
4:11
Speaker 2: is it's a phenomenal in person event. I mean that is,
4:14
Speaker 2: even though I can watch it on TV, I want
4:16
Speaker 2: to go in person because I want to see the flyover,
4:18
Speaker 2: I want to hear taps, I want to be there
4:20
Speaker 2: for the start of the race. You cannot replicate that
4:22
Speaker 2: on TV. And they've done a really good job of
4:25
Speaker 2: kind of sprucing it up, making it an even bigger
4:28
Speaker 2: in person event, and I think they're starting to understand, like, look,
4:31
Speaker 2: we can have our cake and eat it too. We
4:33
Speaker 2: can get the big TV number and it's not going
4:35
Speaker 2: to draw away because we've built this as a phenomenal
4:38
Speaker 2: in person live event and the TV broadcast really only accentuates.
4:43
Speaker 3: Damn, that is cool. I want to be there.
4:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're but you're doing the you're doing both right,
4:49
Speaker 1: So you're doing the five hundred. Then you're doing Game
4:51
Speaker 1: two of the Pacers next, which that series now has,
4:57
Speaker 1: you know, just based on how Game one plan out,
5:00
Speaker 1: And obviously by some the time some people listen to
5:03
Speaker 1: this game too will have already happened, because it's going
5:05
Speaker 1: to happen Friday night. But I just think the juice
5:07
Speaker 1: for that series has gone up to another level. Based
5:11
Speaker 1: on what we saw the other night.
5:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I will be doing the double I have.
5:15
Speaker 2: I've been going to the five hundred. I started going
5:18
Speaker 2: with my dad. I mean, everyone has a story, like
5:19
Speaker 2: eighty five. I started going with my dad. We went
5:21
Speaker 2: for twelve years together. When I moved back to Indianapolis
5:24
Speaker 2: and nine my wife and I started going. So I'm
5:26
Speaker 2: pushing twenty eight twenty nine races now, but we've been
5:28
Speaker 2: going every year since O nine. I've had Pacers tickets
5:31
Speaker 2: for the last ten or twelve years. I didn't have
5:34
Speaker 2: them in thirteen, I think was the last time they
5:36
Speaker 2: had a double. So this time I was kind of debating.
5:38
Speaker 2: But my son loves going to games. He was like
5:41
Speaker 2: a little salty, he's not going to the five hundred.
5:43
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's gonna be a long day, a lot
5:45
Speaker 2: of expresso shots, a lot of coffee. But you know,
5:48
Speaker 2: everyone has their own way of doing it. Like I
5:50
Speaker 2: know how to get in and out of the track
5:52
Speaker 2: and get home. So my plan is I'm actually gonna
5:55
Speaker 2: drive from Ims to Westfield, come home, take a quick shower,
5:59
Speaker 2: grab my son, and then go down and in a
6:01
Speaker 2: weird way, that actually might be better than me trying
6:03
Speaker 2: to just get across town. Even though it's only three
6:05
Speaker 2: or four miles from the track to Gamebridge. That traffic
6:08
Speaker 2: is going to be wild. I don't know what the
6:10
Speaker 2: pattern is going to be, so it should be fun.
6:12
Speaker 2: But yeah, the Pacers Knicks series, that Game one went
6:16
Speaker 2: to another level. It's Game three is gonna be electric
6:21
Speaker 2: because you're either looking at a one to one series
6:22
Speaker 2: or you're looking at, you know, the Pacers possibly trying
6:25
Speaker 2: to go three to zero and just close the Knicks out.
6:27
Speaker 2: It'll be great. But the Pacers have been on an
6:30
Speaker 2: absolute heater. They've had a great playoff run. But they've
6:33
Speaker 2: been fun to watch all year. I mean, this is
6:35
Speaker 2: such a fun team to watch. They move the basketball
6:37
Speaker 2: around that they're really playing different than a lot of
6:41
Speaker 2: other people in the NBA. They've built their team differently,
6:44
Speaker 2: and you're seeing Halliburton was already a good player, but
6:47
Speaker 2: he's starting It's so weird. I've been galing my co hosts.
6:51
Speaker 2: We've been talking a lot about this off off air.
6:53
Speaker 2: Just start calling each other and talking Pacer stuff. There's
6:56
Speaker 2: a lot of similarities between the nineties and this team.
6:59
Speaker 2: With the Pacer. In the nineties, you had a Pacers
7:01
Speaker 2: team that didn't play the kind of the same style
7:03
Speaker 2: that the NBA at large media didn't quite know how
7:06
Speaker 2: to handle them. And you had Reggie Miller who was
7:08
Speaker 2: just a very singularly different and unique star who wasn't
7:12
Speaker 2: the prototypical gets you twenty eight every single night. He
7:15
Speaker 2: was much more of a high and low it could
7:17
Speaker 2: come in the moment and in a weird way. I mean,
7:20
Speaker 2: they're different, but they're also similar, and that Halliburton is
7:23
Speaker 2: kind of getting into that same mold where he's not
7:27
Speaker 2: the prototypical you know, I'm gonna get you twenty eight
7:29
Speaker 2: and twelve every night, but damn man, when the lights
7:32
Speaker 2: are bright, he wants the stage and he's showing he
7:34
Speaker 2: can handle it. And that's something that really resonates with
7:37
Speaker 2: Indiana fans who grew up with Reggie Miller.
7:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, not everyone that listens to this podcast
7:42
Speaker 1: as an NBA person, And there's sometimes I feel like
7:45
Speaker 1: college basketball fans will talk about the NBA and a
7:48
Speaker 1: negative light there's no defense play and all these different
7:51
Speaker 1: things that just simply really aren't true. But you know,
7:53
Speaker 1: if you haven't had a chance to watch his Pacers team,
7:56
Speaker 1: definitely this series if you enjoy good basketball and the
8:00
Speaker 1: Knicks are you know, for a long time, I remember
8:03
Speaker 1: growing up just despising the Knicks, not liking the Knicks.
8:05
Speaker 1: This Knicks team is actually pretty likable. They've got a
8:08
Speaker 1: lot of guys on there that are easy to root
8:10
Speaker 1: for and watch. Obviously Pacers fans don't want to hear that,
8:13
Speaker 1: but guys like Jalen Brunson, ogn and Obi and those
8:16
Speaker 1: guys are a lot of fun to watch. I just
8:18
Speaker 1: think it's a terrific series for basketball, and what a
8:21
Speaker 1: what a great day Sunday is going to be in
8:23
Speaker 1: the state of indian and Indianapolis, so looking forward to that.
8:26
Speaker 1: We're obviously here to talk basketball.
8:29
Speaker 3: It's an IU matchup. You have o g versus Thomas Bryant,
8:31
Speaker 3: who both.
8:32
Speaker 2: Been playing minutes, but Thomas Bryant is getting some important
8:35
Speaker 2: minutes with the Pacers.
8:36
Speaker 3: He's he's nice.
8:37
Speaker 1: Nice little comeback for Thomas too, after kind of being
8:40
Speaker 1: buried on the bench there on Denver's roster a couple
8:43
Speaker 1: of years ago when they won the title, and then
8:45
Speaker 1: kind of working his way back up, getting the getting
8:47
Speaker 1: traded from Miami up to Indianapolis, and they they obviously
8:51
Speaker 1: had a need for him, and he's he's done a
8:52
Speaker 1: great job I think in the limited minutes and he's
8:54
Speaker 1: gotten and yeah, you're right, it's it's a fun it's
8:57
Speaker 1: a fun series. Glad to see both at least one
8:59
Speaker 1: of those guys is going to go to the exactly
9:01
Speaker 1: from what IU perspective, you went either way. But with
9:03
Speaker 1: IU basketball, you know, I was talking before we hit record.
9:06
Speaker 3: It was weird.
9:07
Speaker 1: It was either the day of or the day before
9:10
Speaker 1: the Woodson's announcement, whatever you want to call it, came
9:13
Speaker 1: out that that we had you on the podcast. So
9:15
Speaker 1: a lot's changed since then. And one reason I just
9:18
Speaker 1: wanted to have you on is because you know, you
9:20
Speaker 1: and Galen have done Crimson Cast for so long and
9:22
Speaker 1: I love the podcast and I love hearing your opinions,
9:25
Speaker 1: and you know, for those that don't listen to Crimson Casts,
9:28
Speaker 1: you should make that a regular part of your podcast rotation.
9:31
Speaker 1: But Scott, it's been you know, a little over two
9:36
Speaker 1: months since de Freeze has hired, more than three months
9:39
Speaker 1: since you've been on this on the show. I'm just curious,
9:43
Speaker 1: like from your perspective, because you know, you look at
9:45
Speaker 1: this a little bit of a different lens than I
9:47
Speaker 1: do more from a fan perspective. What's uh, what are
9:51
Speaker 1: your just general thoughts on on how maybe briefly, how
9:56
Speaker 1: the Woodson era ended and now where this program is
10:01
Speaker 1: a couple of months it ended of Reese's tenure.
10:04
Speaker 2: So we'll start with the end of the Woodson era.
10:07
Speaker 2: You know it. It didn't go well. Yeah, go well, Alex,
10:12
Speaker 2: you know it. I tried to be optimistic. As I'm
10:16
Speaker 2: getting older, I try really hard with these coaching changes,
10:18
Speaker 2: which unfortunately are happening a little bit too frequently. I
10:22
Speaker 2: try and go into each one and be positive because
10:25
Speaker 2: whether I like it or not, like this is going
10:27
Speaker 2: to be the coach of my college basketball team, so
10:29
Speaker 2: let's at least go into it with a positive attitude.
10:31
Speaker 2: And so I went into the Woods and thing, you know,
10:33
Speaker 2: I was a little bit perplexed because I got that
10:36
Speaker 2: was an interesting hire, like didn't seem like you know,
10:39
Speaker 2: but okay, we finally did it. You know, we finally
10:41
Speaker 2: went We hired a former player, we hired somebody in
10:45
Speaker 2: the family, we hired an NBA guy, And then you
10:48
Speaker 2: could start to be like, all right, well this guy
10:49
Speaker 2: knows basketball and all of these things. And then you know,
10:52
Speaker 2: he was able to get Trace Jackson Davis to stay.
10:56
Speaker 2: You know, he got Jalen hoo Chaffino, he got a
10:58
Speaker 2: really good team there. In his second year, he had
11:00
Speaker 2: some nice success against Purdue and Painter. So it's not
11:04
Speaker 2: all bad, but a lot of the things that we're
11:08
Speaker 2: concerning about bringing an NBA guy into college you saw
11:12
Speaker 2: pop up over and over and over again. And this
11:14
Speaker 2: isn't just a Woods and thing. It's just you've seen
11:16
Speaker 2: it across college basketball. NBA only coaches have a really
11:20
Speaker 2: hard time. Like you know, Patino and Cali Pari are
11:22
Speaker 2: not not fair comps because they're college guys. Guys who
11:25
Speaker 2: just are NBA guys coming to college like an Avery
11:27
Speaker 2: Johnson also in his alma mater, don't normally work well.
11:32
Speaker 2: And it's because you know, sometimes I think NBA guys
11:36
Speaker 2: have a lower view of what college is. And you know,
11:39
Speaker 2: going to a lot of Pacers games, it's interesting watching
11:42
Speaker 2: Rick Carlisle coach because you haven't been to a lot
11:45
Speaker 2: of NBA games. Like, you know, they'll call a time
11:47
Speaker 2: out of three and a half minutes in the time out,
11:49
Speaker 2: Carlisle will go to in this very all NBA teams
11:53
Speaker 2: do this. He'll go talk to his assistants for like
11:55
Speaker 2: two and a half minutes. It's like it's not a
11:57
Speaker 2: time out, like he's just talking to his assistants. They're
11:58
Speaker 2: going through stuff. He'll go in the huddle for like
12:01
Speaker 2: eighteen to twenty seconds and then the team will break
12:03
Speaker 2: and be done because you realize it again, I'm not
12:06
Speaker 2: in the huddle, but he's not going to you know,
12:08
Speaker 2: Halliburton or Aaron Nesmith saying hey man, you got to
12:10
Speaker 2: make sure and you know, keep the ball down on
12:12
Speaker 2: the drive, and like it's real, like, hey man, don't
12:14
Speaker 2: forget Brunson likes to go left when he's getting slip screen,
12:17
Speaker 2: Like it is specific things and everything else is like
12:20
Speaker 2: you figure it out and you realize, like that doesn't
12:23
Speaker 2: work in college because college kids need to be told
12:26
Speaker 2: the things like hey man, don't forget you can't run
12:28
Speaker 2: on the inbounds and like we only have four seconds
12:30
Speaker 2: and you've got to make it a little more granular.
12:32
Speaker 2: So I think those were concerns that led up. But Alex,
12:36
Speaker 2: the thing that and I'm just gonna be frank here
12:38
Speaker 2: and maybe annoy people a little bit. The thing that
12:40
Speaker 2: really bothered me as I now reflect more on the
12:43
Speaker 2: wood scenario. Is part of the reason you bring a
12:47
Speaker 2: former player back into the you know, somebody from the family,
12:50
Speaker 2: is that they theoretically should understand Indiana basketball. They should
12:54
Speaker 2: understand what it means, they should understand how you know
12:57
Speaker 2: important the fans are, the students, assembly hall, handy stripe,
13:00
Speaker 2: all the stuff that we talk ad nauseum about should
13:04
Speaker 2: matter to them, and by the end it felt like
13:08
Speaker 2: it didn't matter like that. That's the part that is
13:10
Speaker 2: wild to me is if Woodson hadn't have played, we'd
13:14
Speaker 2: all be like, Man, this guy just doesn't understand Indiana basketball.
13:17
Speaker 2: You can't you can't talk about other teams this way.
13:19
Speaker 2: You can't not go to the Indiana State title game.
13:21
Speaker 2: You can't treat Indiana high school coach like this. You
13:23
Speaker 2: can't basically give the heisman, you know, tell Phish, I'm
13:27
Speaker 2: not doing your interviews. Like That's the thing that really
13:29
Speaker 2: pissed me offm I just be honest, Like when when
13:31
Speaker 2: he after our podcast he got announced that he was
13:33
Speaker 2: stepping down and then he just stopped doing media availability,
13:36
Speaker 2: stop doing Don Fisher.
13:38
Speaker 1: Don Fisher, well, he he he hadn't been doing media
13:42
Speaker 1: availability most of the season because I kept track of it.
13:44
Speaker 1: There was after Atlantis happened, he did media availability I
13:50
Speaker 1: think after one or two before before he did after games,
13:54
Speaker 1: but before games he did one or two the entire
13:57
Speaker 1: rest of the season after Atlantis.
13:59
Speaker 3: Right, and you you you do that?
14:03
Speaker 2: I mean I would say this all the time, like,
14:05
Speaker 2: imagine if bollow just stopped, like if a player did that,
14:08
Speaker 2: which like I'm not doing interviews anymore. We'd beat up
14:11
Speaker 2: our grills about this with nil and like what are
14:14
Speaker 2: these kids turning into as a professional who should understand
14:17
Speaker 2: what it is?
14:18
Speaker 3: And again it's not like Fish is gonna ask you
14:19
Speaker 3: hard questions.
14:20
Speaker 2: So to me, that was really disappointing because it felt
14:23
Speaker 2: like and then you hear all of the you know,
14:25
Speaker 2: the rumors and stories about you know, misrecruiting visits and
14:28
Speaker 2: just you know, being the things that were being said
14:31
Speaker 2: that seem very arrogant about how he handled the job,
14:33
Speaker 2: and it just was like, man, this was does this
14:37
Speaker 2: guy understand how important this program is? And I'm sure
14:40
Speaker 2: he does, like I'm not saying he doesn't, but it's
14:43
Speaker 2: just his actions didn't meet what I was expecting from
14:47
Speaker 2: the start of what I would get from a former
14:49
Speaker 2: player coming in and to me that along with not
14:53
Speaker 2: making the tournament and the losses, that's the most disappointing
14:56
Speaker 2: part is it's like, damn, I could have been okay
14:58
Speaker 2: losing if it felt like this guy really cared as
15:01
Speaker 2: much as the fans do. But it all I can
15:04
Speaker 2: say is it didn't feel that way, And if he
15:05
Speaker 2: did feel as much for the university, he did a
15:08
Speaker 2: really poor job of showing in his actions.
15:11
Speaker 1: So the debris era, that was kind of the second
15:14
Speaker 1: part of my question. What what are you early thoughts
15:19
Speaker 1: on just everything that's happened. Obviously don't want to get
15:21
Speaker 1: into the nuts and bolts of trying to break down
15:23
Speaker 1: ten players and what the roster are gonna look like
15:25
Speaker 1: because that's we've done that. And also, you know, it's
15:31
Speaker 1: easy to kind of project what this team's actually gonna
15:34
Speaker 1: be until we actually see some games next season. It's
15:37
Speaker 1: really hard to know what to expect. But I'm just
15:39
Speaker 1: kind of curious watching from your vantage point, what you've
15:42
Speaker 1: thought of the approach so far, and maybe some general
15:45
Speaker 1: thoughts on what they've been able to assemble.
15:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny. Me and some buddies during the Woodston cycle,
15:52
Speaker 2: we did a bet. We did like a snake draft
15:55
Speaker 2: of who we thought the coach would be, and we
15:58
Speaker 2: went through five rounds and nobody picked Woodson, and we
16:00
Speaker 2: were like, that's looking back, that's curious. So this time,
16:02
Speaker 2: of course, we ran it back that the Joe. I
16:05
Speaker 2: have a couple of friends who are also not IU
16:07
Speaker 2: fans who kind of do it to troll me, and
16:08
Speaker 2: so they were like, we should make this a keeper
16:10
Speaker 2: league because you're gonna do it every four years. I'm like,
16:11
Speaker 2: all right, fine, So we did a keeper league this year.
16:15
Speaker 2: We went we went five rounds again, and nobody picked
16:18
Speaker 2: Debris this time, so hopefully it's not a similar result.
16:23
Speaker 2: I was surprised in that it was just a name.
16:25
Speaker 2: You know, Galen and I were doing kind of four
16:28
Speaker 2: coach deep dives on our podcast every week because we knew,
16:32
Speaker 2: you know, it was like February when we got the announcement.
16:34
Speaker 2: We knew we'd have a ton of time, just kind
16:36
Speaker 2: of take our time. We never got to Debris, which
16:39
Speaker 2: may have been a good thing that we don't have
16:40
Speaker 2: on tape our thoughts ahead of time. So I was initially,
16:45
Speaker 2: I think, like everybody else, just you know, there's a
16:47
Speaker 2: part of you. It's like, man, I want the name,
16:48
Speaker 2: like I want the name that I've heard of that
16:51
Speaker 2: it's like, Wow, it's a big, splashy hire. But if
16:54
Speaker 2: you look through college basketball, a lot of the programs
16:56
Speaker 2: that are doing well, they don't have those big, splashy hires.
16:59
Speaker 2: It's really assistants who move up. Like you know, Todd
17:02
Speaker 2: Golden with Florida. It's like that wasn't and that didn't
17:04
Speaker 2: blow the doors off. That wasn't a name anybody had
17:06
Speaker 2: heard of. You know, NATO's with the Alabama. Those aren't names.
17:09
Speaker 2: But at the time you're like, oh my god, that's
17:11
Speaker 2: that's huge. So I was, but very slowly, I've I've
17:16
Speaker 2: come to be very intrigued and cautiously optimistic with the
17:20
Speaker 2: higher And I was telling you before we started, like
17:22
Speaker 2: I'm just cautiously optimistic because I've just been through this
17:26
Speaker 2: too many times where Archie seemed like it was going
17:29
Speaker 2: to work and it didn't. I probably talked myself into
17:33
Speaker 2: Woods and that obviously didn't work. You know, at at
17:36
Speaker 2: certain points in the creen era, I was like, this
17:38
Speaker 2: is the right guy, this is the one who's going
17:40
Speaker 2: to take us there, and then it it kind of
17:42
Speaker 2: went sideways very quickly, so my guard is up. It's
17:46
Speaker 2: it's a joke I used in other facets of life too.
17:49
Speaker 2: It's like, it's not it's not your fault. It's like
17:50
Speaker 2: previous girlfriends have burned me. It's not your fault. I'm
17:53
Speaker 2: happily married twenty five years, no other girlfriends. But it's
17:56
Speaker 2: like I would tell it's a degree. It's like, it's
17:57
Speaker 2: nothing he's done. It's just I've been burned enough being
18:01
Speaker 2: so optimistic that I'm cautiously optimistic. But thus far, you know,
18:05
Speaker 2: everything he's done. What I like about is it seems
18:08
Speaker 2: to be with a plan. It seems to be with purpose,
18:11
Speaker 2: and he's doing little things that kind of you know,
18:13
Speaker 2: throw catnip to IU fans, you know, the god the
18:17
Speaker 2: transfer we got who's looking at Kentucky. And then he
18:20
Speaker 2: goes on mar Thank you Wilkerson. He goes on field
18:23
Speaker 2: of sixty eight and he's like, oh, yeah, you know,
18:24
Speaker 2: Devrie has just gotten a plane and came here the
18:26
Speaker 2: next day and signed me.
18:28
Speaker 3: It's like yes, like give me way more of that.
18:32
Speaker 2: Like and you know, he's talking to high school coaches
18:34
Speaker 2: and I've I've done some work with the Fair Shake
18:37
Speaker 2: Radio down in southern Indiana. They do a lot like
18:38
Speaker 2: high school basketball. They are saying, you know, they're starting
18:43
Speaker 2: to be some inroads with high school basketball coaches and
18:45
Speaker 2: like he's starting to do what you need to do
18:48
Speaker 2: around the state of Indiana is to build that back up.
18:51
Speaker 2: So I've been very intrigued by that, and I think
18:54
Speaker 2: the team he's built, you know, I've been telling my wife, like,
18:57
Speaker 2: I think you're gonna like this team. It's like a
18:58
Speaker 2: lot of guys who are dogs have chips on their
19:00
Speaker 2: shoulders a little bit kind of like the pacers, like
19:02
Speaker 2: a lot of interchangeable parts who are all, you know,
19:04
Speaker 2: six seven to six eight. So thus far, I'm very
19:08
Speaker 2: cautiously optimistic. And the only reason I would say cautiously
19:12
Speaker 2: is just as nothing Devrees hasn't done. It's just me
19:15
Speaker 2: having lived through this unfortunately for twenty years.
19:17
Speaker 1: I think the thing I hear from most from fans,
19:20
Speaker 1: and I'm curious if you kind of share the same
19:22
Speaker 1: sentiment is you mentioned the plan, but just the opportunity
19:26
Speaker 1: to maybe open up the floor a lot more than
19:29
Speaker 1: what we've seen in the last couple of years in
19:31
Speaker 1: terms of also collecting players who kind of meet certain
19:36
Speaker 1: metrics from whether it be offensive rebounding percentage or three
19:41
Speaker 1: point shooting percentage. Rather than just collecting talent without a
19:47
Speaker 1: plan and how the pieces are going to fit together.
19:48
Speaker 1: This seems like more of a measured approach in terms of, Hey,
19:52
Speaker 1: we want guys that have taken this number of threes
19:55
Speaker 1: and have hitted this percentage because we know we can
19:59
Speaker 1: probably count on that on it. What once we get
20:01
Speaker 1: this guy on our program? Whereas in the past thing
20:05
Speaker 1: and this is nothing. It's Mike Woodson. I thought last
20:07
Speaker 1: season they had a lot of talent, but the pieces
20:10
Speaker 1: never really fit together. And I think there's a chance
20:13
Speaker 1: for more success next season. Just from the standpoint of
20:18
Speaker 1: I feel like they've actually targeted guys with specific traits
20:21
Speaker 1: and have a way that they at least hope to
20:24
Speaker 1: try to put them together. We have to see it
20:26
Speaker 1: all play out, but it just it just feels like
20:29
Speaker 1: overall the the plan is more organized. Is is that
20:38
Speaker 1: fair to say? Do you do you share that? Do
20:41
Speaker 1: you share that feeling?
20:42
Speaker 3: I do? No, I agree with that.
20:44
Speaker 2: It's It's been interesting to me that last offseason so
20:47
Speaker 2: much of the discussion was about the nil payments, like man,
20:51
Speaker 2: we're spending this much and we got this guy for
20:53
Speaker 2: that much. And it was about players with kind of
20:55
Speaker 2: the asterisk of like, oh, he's making two million. I
20:58
Speaker 2: think I heard too, you know, one million at least
21:00
Speaker 2: from the people I've been kind of chatting with. It's
21:02
Speaker 2: been more about the players and then their production versus
21:06
Speaker 2: you know, when you talk about Wilkerson, it's like, man,
21:08
Speaker 2: this guy has a guard who can shoot. It's like,
21:09
Speaker 2: I haven't heard a lot of talk about the nil
21:12
Speaker 2: money that we're giving out, which I'm sure we are.
21:14
Speaker 2: I think it's a different mindset of like we're not.
21:17
Speaker 2: We're probably still spending as much or maybe as much
21:20
Speaker 2: as like, but it's more to your point about production
21:23
Speaker 2: and what can this team do and you got some
21:25
Speaker 2: guys who can shoot threes, it's just nice, like that
21:28
Speaker 2: would be that would be awesome. And again, this was
21:30
Speaker 2: the thing with the Woodson era of basketball is it's not,
21:36
Speaker 2: you know, not everybody has to play the same style
21:38
Speaker 2: of basketball. You don't all have to you know, three
21:41
Speaker 2: and D and do what everyone else is doing. That said,
21:44
Speaker 2: if you're going to play the way that Woodson was playing,
21:47
Speaker 2: it gives you a very narrow band of being good
21:51
Speaker 2: and you have to do those things well, and it's
21:53
Speaker 2: like they were not doing the things well that you
21:55
Speaker 2: had to do if you were going to play with
21:57
Speaker 2: two bigs and take a lot of two point shots.
22:00
Speaker 2: So I'm excited to see that. I think just having
22:04
Speaker 2: a more free wheeling style of offense would be fun.
22:06
Speaker 2: I mean that's also you know, in the end, it's entertainment,
22:08
Speaker 2: like you want to go and have a good time.
22:10
Speaker 2: And you know, the Cream teams were fun and they
22:13
Speaker 2: shot a ton and you can get some outlier games.
22:16
Speaker 3: I'm I'm excited. I like what I'm seeing.
22:19
Speaker 2: I think the team, like I said, could be could
22:21
Speaker 2: be really good, really interesting. What I like that you're
22:25
Speaker 2: starting to see and we're starting to talk about a
22:27
Speaker 2: little bit on our podcast, is people were a little
22:30
Speaker 2: bit concerned because you basically have you know, of this class.
22:34
Speaker 2: Debrees went after a lot of juniors and seniors in
22:37
Speaker 2: the transfer portal, so you have one, two, three, six
22:40
Speaker 2: seniors and three juniors. So it's like, man, this is
22:43
Speaker 2: gonna and the concern is like, are you gonna have
22:45
Speaker 2: to start flipping this every single year? But what you're
22:48
Speaker 2: seeing is now they're getting very heavily into high school
22:52
Speaker 2: recruiting in the twenty six and twenty seven classes and
22:55
Speaker 2: going after some really interesting names. It's like, oh, yeah,
22:58
Speaker 2: because there's a plan here where it's like, you know,
23:00
Speaker 2: we're gonna there's going to be playing time for those
23:02
Speaker 2: guys in twenty six and twenty seven because we're going
23:05
Speaker 2: to have you know, you know, Debrees and Wilkerson are
23:08
Speaker 2: all going to you know, push off. The roster is
23:10
Speaker 2: going to be room. And again it's who cares, you know.
23:14
Speaker 2: I'm sure the other you know, coaches and Woodson had
23:17
Speaker 2: a plan, but this this feels a little more put together.
23:21
Speaker 2: And I the last thing I'll say is, you know,
23:22
Speaker 2: I keep going back to it's like this guy just
23:25
Speaker 2: did this in West Virginia, Like he just built a
23:27
Speaker 2: team from absolute ground up scratch, did it in West
23:30
Speaker 2: Virginia and got that team on the brink of making
23:33
Speaker 2: the tournament.
23:34
Speaker 1: Yeah. One thing that I think made fans, something I
23:39
Speaker 1: talked to a little uneasy when he took over, was
23:41
Speaker 1: just the fact that nobody stayed from last year's team.
23:44
Speaker 1: But the more I've thought about that, I think part
23:49
Speaker 1: of the reason that the style of play from Woodson
23:52
Speaker 1: never really evolved is because he had all these players
23:55
Speaker 1: that kept sticking around. You know, it was the beginning.
23:59
Speaker 1: It was Tray Jackson day, and you couldn't not to
24:01
Speaker 1: say that you wouldn't want to build a team around
24:03
Speaker 1: Tray Jackson Davis. But when he's on your roster, you're
24:05
Speaker 1: not gonna be shooting on the three because the ball
24:07
Speaker 1: is gonna go outside. Then he had Malik Renew Khalil
24:09
Speaker 1: where the you know, other front court players. It was
24:13
Speaker 1: like every year that last year was Umar Bollo was
24:16
Speaker 1: built around a front court player. So thinking about that more,
24:21
Speaker 1: uh as the process went on, I thought, you know,
24:26
Speaker 1: it sure would be nice to have a couple of
24:27
Speaker 1: guys that you know what they're going to produce coming back.
24:30
Speaker 1: But also being able to kind of build your roster
24:34
Speaker 1: from nothing, assuming you can get the pieces that you
24:38
Speaker 1: want and put it together, really allows you to construct
24:41
Speaker 1: a team in year one that you can actually play
24:43
Speaker 1: your style with. Because what's the same Elik Renew would
24:46
Speaker 1: have come back, or two or three other guys that
24:49
Speaker 1: that you know, Devrees necessarily maybe not necessarily would have
24:52
Speaker 1: recruited on his own. But if Malik ra News on
24:55
Speaker 1: this team next year, things are a lot different. So
24:58
Speaker 1: I like the idea of, you know, maybe it's not
25:01
Speaker 1: as talented, but there's the coach is bringing in pieces
25:07
Speaker 1: that he feels like he can put in a position
25:10
Speaker 1: to succeed based on the style play that he wants
25:12
Speaker 1: to get, rather than trying to to fit guys into
25:14
Speaker 1: a system that maybe doesn't work just based on the
25:16
Speaker 1: fact that they were here in the past.
25:18
Speaker 2: I completely agree. And you know, it's also kind of like,
25:22
Speaker 2: this is a team that didn't make the tournament for
25:24
Speaker 2: two years. Like what, it's not like we're bringing back
25:27
Speaker 2: guys from the final fourteen, just let's be honest, Like
25:29
Speaker 2: it's anyway some of the you know, Galloway and Ballow
25:32
Speaker 2: were gone no matter what. So you're you know, two
25:34
Speaker 2: of the top maybe four guys are already not available
25:38
Speaker 2: because they're graduating. It's like you're looking at renew Rice
25:40
Speaker 2: and Embacco and yeah, maybe in a certain system one
25:43
Speaker 2: or two of those guys would be good, but it's
25:45
Speaker 2: like they they are holdovers from, you know, a team
25:49
Speaker 2: that was disappointing enough that the coach got resigned or fired,
25:53
Speaker 2: got got pushed to resign.
25:55
Speaker 1: Unclear, unclear what exactly happened there.
25:58
Speaker 2: The coach is different, well put which is different, and
26:00
Speaker 2: so you know there's some of that too, and it's
26:03
Speaker 2: a you know, it's a team that the last two
26:06
Speaker 2: years you watch them play and it's not like they
26:08
Speaker 2: were always looked like they were having a great time.
26:11
Speaker 2: Like it wasn't like an amazing chemistry. So there's not
26:13
Speaker 2: a lot of reason to keep those people. And I
26:14
Speaker 2: get it, but it's like it's a different era. And
26:17
Speaker 2: I also think this is where you know you just
26:19
Speaker 2: hand over to Devrees is like, look, one of the
26:22
Speaker 2: reasons you want to come to IU is will give
26:23
Speaker 2: you the ability to just turn it over and go
26:25
Speaker 2: with it. So I, like you, I wasn't as concerned
26:28
Speaker 2: I was, for you know, I knew it would all
26:31
Speaker 2: get figured out. There was like a two week period
26:34
Speaker 2: there where I was kind of like, it'd be nice
26:35
Speaker 2: to start getting it figured out. Like there was it
26:38
Speaker 2: took a while to get there, but I was never
26:40
Speaker 2: freaking out, never like you's got to start signing people,
26:41
Speaker 2: to sign people, but it was, you know, like, let's
26:44
Speaker 2: let's start do it.
26:45
Speaker 3: There was like a two week period there. We had
26:46
Speaker 3: his son and that was it.
26:48
Speaker 2: But it all got taken care of and he got
26:51
Speaker 2: the team that I believe he wants.
26:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was a there was a short period there,
26:56
Speaker 1: and I think I put something on social media like
26:58
Speaker 1: highlighting when Michigan got it commits under the Dusty May
27:01
Speaker 1: era when it started. But there was that period. I
27:04
Speaker 1: think it was hired March eighteenth, and I think in
27:06
Speaker 1: right committed April second, but it was like a weekend
27:08
Speaker 1: and people were starting to grow in a little bit.
27:10
Speaker 1: It's like he said in his press conference, you got
27:13
Speaker 1: to do the vetting on the front end. We got
27:14
Speaker 1: to meet these guys, so I figure I think like
27:18
Speaker 1: in terms of getting commitments, I think they got ten
27:22
Speaker 1: and twenty seven days once things got rolling on April seconds,
27:25
Speaker 1: So it all happened pretty fast once they kind of
27:27
Speaker 1: got everything in place. So overall, the process I thought
27:32
Speaker 1: worked out really well. I'm curious. You know, we've talked
27:37
Speaker 1: about this in the past. You're a season ticket holder.
27:39
Speaker 1: I know you haven't been in assembly as much as
27:42
Speaker 1: in the past these past couple of years. Has this
27:46
Speaker 1: rejuvenated your interest in getting back to more games in
27:49
Speaker 1: Bloomington moving forward? Are you going to be more curious
27:51
Speaker 1: to watch this team? You mentioned those Cream teams maybeing
27:56
Speaker 1: a lot more fun to watch. This is the idea
27:58
Speaker 1: of watching maybe a friend style of basketball now and
28:01
Speaker 1: having a fresh start make you more anxious. Are are
28:06
Speaker 1: anxious more excited to get back to games in Bloomington?
28:09
Speaker 2: It does, Yeah, it does, you know. And it's not
28:12
Speaker 2: a knock on Devrees. It's just I think any coach
28:14
Speaker 2: would have every coach. You know, one of the podcasts
28:18
Speaker 2: on the back Home Network as Ex'es and Joe's and
28:20
Speaker 2: they talk a lot about, you know, you getting kind
28:22
Speaker 2: of a reset when you hire a new coach. It
28:24
Speaker 2: was very similar to like an NBA team maybe tanking
28:26
Speaker 2: and getting a draft pick. You you just get a reset,
28:28
Speaker 2: and so part of it is just a new staff.
28:30
Speaker 2: It's like, all right, I'm I'm bought back in. But
28:34
Speaker 2: you know where Devrees is at and the more you
28:38
Speaker 2: dig into it, it's like, man, you know, there's a
28:40
Speaker 2: lot that he did to turn around you know, other programs,
28:45
Speaker 2: what he did at West Virginia. You know, the style
28:47
Speaker 2: that he plays, the kind of the ethos that he
28:50
Speaker 2: brings from Creighton. You know, hearing stuff like Doug McDermott
28:54
Speaker 2: talking about, man, I love that guy, Like that's why
28:56
Speaker 2: I went to create not my dad, which is kind
28:58
Speaker 2: of like all right, Doug, but it's also like you
29:00
Speaker 2: he said it, and it's true, you know, I I
29:04
Speaker 2: am very excited. I think seeing these pieces and seeing
29:08
Speaker 2: guys who can shoot and seeing a different style would
29:10
Speaker 2: be really is going to be fun. So part of
29:13
Speaker 2: it is just getting you know, a new a new
29:16
Speaker 2: lease on life. Having a younger coach, I think is interesting,
29:20
Speaker 2: but I do I'm interested with the team he's building
29:24
Speaker 2: and seeing some of the guys. It does feel like
29:26
Speaker 2: it might just be a chip on the shoulder team
29:28
Speaker 2: and might just have a much different ethos, which I think.
29:31
Speaker 2: I think this could all blend nicely with IU. Here
29:35
Speaker 2: here's the question I have for you. I'm gonna flip
29:37
Speaker 2: it on you for a second. Sure, one of the
29:39
Speaker 2: things I was kind of thought was interesting and I
29:41
Speaker 2: was I thought was a positive, was you know, I
29:44
Speaker 2: you hiring or DeVries hiring Kenny Johnson back who had
29:47
Speaker 2: been under Kreen's staff. You know, somebody who you're already
29:50
Speaker 2: seeing some guys in the DMV were giving offers to,
29:53
Speaker 2: like you already see fingerprints of him all over the place.
29:57
Speaker 2: I'm curious what your thoughts are on that higher. I mean,
29:59
Speaker 2: I look at that is like that's something where another
30:02
Speaker 2: coach might have been like, I can't do this. I
30:04
Speaker 2: look at it very much as you know, this is
30:06
Speaker 2: a coach in degrees. Is like I see talent, and
30:10
Speaker 2: you know, all the other pieces doesn't really matter because
30:12
Speaker 2: I see somebody who's really good at their job, and
30:14
Speaker 2: I want somebody who's really good at their job on
30:16
Speaker 2: my staff. And I'm curious what you thought about that
30:18
Speaker 2: higher and if that kind of stuck out to you
30:20
Speaker 2: one way or the other.
30:21
Speaker 3: I liked it a lot.
30:23
Speaker 1: When Kenny Johnson left Indiana, it was a pretty significant
30:27
Speaker 1: blow to I think, to Tom Crane in terms of
30:29
Speaker 1: what he was able to do recruiting wise.
30:31
Speaker 3: He did, to his.
30:32
Speaker 1: Credit, brought in Chuck Martin who helped him get Thomas Bryant,
30:36
Speaker 1: and talent wasn't really an issue of the Kreen ara.
30:39
Speaker 1: But Kenny Johnson did a phenomenal job at the first
30:41
Speaker 1: go round. And you know, obviously there was some question
30:45
Speaker 1: marks I think from some in the fan base just
30:47
Speaker 1: you know obviously what happened at Louisville. But all that
30:50
Speaker 1: stuff water under the bridge in terms of his problems
30:54
Speaker 1: with the NCAA. You know, I know Kenny Johnson a
30:57
Speaker 1: little bit, has always been a really personable, nice guy.
31:00
Speaker 1: I think he's one of the better recruiters in terms
31:05
Speaker 1: of just building connections and getting to know kids of
31:08
Speaker 1: any coach in the country. And the fact that they
31:12
Speaker 1: brought him in along with the other guys they brought out,
31:13
Speaker 1: you know, Rod Clark, I think is a very good
31:16
Speaker 1: hire getting him away from Tennessee. Drew Adams obviously very
31:19
Speaker 1: familiar with the Statey of Indiana with his ties to
31:21
Speaker 1: the Indian Elite program. I think that it's just, you know,
31:28
Speaker 1: we fall into this trap. You know, we followed this trap.
31:31
Speaker 1: I think the last two times of when Archie was hired,
31:34
Speaker 1: always got this great coaching staff, and these guys are great.
31:37
Speaker 1: Same thing I think with Mike Woodson. So I never
31:39
Speaker 1: want to say this is going to work out one
31:41
Speaker 1: hundred percent. These guys are going to crush it. But
31:45
Speaker 1: all of them have credentials of recruited high level players. Obviously,
31:48
Speaker 1: we've seen Kenny Johnson do it in Indiana. We saw
31:50
Speaker 1: him at Louisville recruit Donovan Mitchell. We saw him now
31:52
Speaker 1: kind of rehab his career working at Rhode Island and
31:55
Speaker 1: then last season at Georgetown.
31:57
Speaker 3: So I think it's good and I.
31:59
Speaker 1: Think it's it's it's a higher that I don't think
32:03
Speaker 1: we would have seen at Indiana maybe five or ten
32:05
Speaker 1: years ago.
32:05
Speaker 2: Right.
32:06
Speaker 1: I think that speaks to the idea of just getting
32:09
Speaker 1: out of the way and letting the coach do his job.
32:11
Speaker 1: If if Darren Devrees is gonna succeed in Indiana, he's
32:14
Speaker 1: got to have administrative support, he's got to let he's
32:17
Speaker 1: got to be allowed to do his job as he
32:19
Speaker 1: sees fit. You know, as long as these guys don't
32:23
Speaker 1: have anything in terms of NCAA rules that are like
32:28
Speaker 1: are prohibiting them from doing their job now, which none
32:30
Speaker 1: of it, none of them do what. As I said,
32:32
Speaker 1: whatever happened with Kay Johnson is now a water under
32:35
Speaker 1: the bridge. He's cleared from an NCAA perspective. Let the
32:38
Speaker 1: coach assemble the staff that he wants, give him the
32:40
Speaker 1: resources that he wants, and we'll see how it works.
32:42
Speaker 1: So I think overall, it's a it's a it's a
32:46
Speaker 1: really solid staff. We'll see how it works out. I
32:48
Speaker 1: like the approach so far. They seem to be targeting
32:51
Speaker 1: guys that that Clark and Adams and Johnson had already
32:56
Speaker 1: maybe built a connection with it their previous stop, so
32:58
Speaker 1: they kind of have built in relationships there. It's never
33:00
Speaker 1: great to be starting from scratch this late in the process,
33:04
Speaker 1: and so we'll see how it works out. I still
33:06
Speaker 1: question long term how important high school recruiting is with
33:11
Speaker 1: the portal out there. I don't know how big. Obviously
33:14
Speaker 1: you want to get talented high school players and bring
33:16
Speaker 1: them in, but at the same volume as what you
33:19
Speaker 1: did in the past. I don't think that's going to
33:21
Speaker 1: be the case, because if I can go out there
33:23
Speaker 1: and get a ready made guy from the portal that
33:26
Speaker 1: can come in and give me instant production, do I
33:29
Speaker 1: want to have a high school recruiting class of five
33:31
Speaker 1: or six guys every year. I don't think I do. So.
33:34
Speaker 1: I like the idea of bringing in two, three, maybe
33:39
Speaker 1: four really good players that fit the system. But I
33:43
Speaker 1: think the days are over of having these, you know,
33:46
Speaker 1: five or six men recruiting class that we saw maybe
33:48
Speaker 1: ten fifteen years ago.
33:49
Speaker 2: I know I agree with that, but I do think
33:51
Speaker 2: it needs to be a mixture, and I think that's
33:55
Speaker 2: that's why I like seeing debries get some of these
33:57
Speaker 2: recruiting only guys on his staff, because you know, that's
34:01
Speaker 2: what you were seeing under Woodson that I thought was
34:03
Speaker 2: a little bit wrong. I think it's wrong on either
34:05
Speaker 2: side of universities that are programs that are.
34:08
Speaker 3: Going hard one way or the other.
34:10
Speaker 2: Like when you see, you know, Clemson football, when he's like,
34:12
Speaker 2: I'm not I'm not doing any transfers, Like all right,
34:14
Speaker 2: I don't think that's the right way to go about it.
34:16
Speaker 2: But it felt like with Woodson it was like, well,
34:17
Speaker 2: we don't really care about recruiting. It's like, well, I
34:18
Speaker 2: don't think that's the right way either. You know, you
34:21
Speaker 2: need to have a mixture. I'm not saying you were
34:23
Speaker 2: saying that, but I do think it's important that you
34:26
Speaker 2: know it's going to be a blend where you need
34:28
Speaker 2: to have two or three or four guys that you're
34:31
Speaker 2: recruiting that come in every year, and then also you know,
34:36
Speaker 2: get guys that you can get on transfer. But but
34:37
Speaker 2: I also say what's important is you know, just because
34:41
Speaker 2: guys you get in the portal doesn't mean you know.
34:43
Speaker 2: I do think this is a longer tail, and I
34:45
Speaker 2: think this might be what Woodson was missing. Some of
34:48
Speaker 2: is he just didn't seem to from everything I heard,
34:51
Speaker 2: care much about high school recruiting. I was like, we'll
34:53
Speaker 2: just get in the portal. Well, kids in the portal
34:56
Speaker 2: guess where they started. They were high school recruits, and
34:58
Speaker 2: so you know the idea that you don't you know,
35:00
Speaker 2: I do think a lot of this is like, hey,
35:02
Speaker 2: we're going to build a relationship now, and maybe we'll
35:04
Speaker 2: offer you. Maybe you don't come, maybe we don't offer you,
35:07
Speaker 2: but it's like we're gonna build that relationship. And then
35:09
Speaker 2: maybe you go to Iowa State for a year and
35:11
Speaker 2: it's like you don't like it, and it's like, hey,
35:12
Speaker 2: now I'm not just coming and calling after you had
35:16
Speaker 2: a good year at Iowa State. It's like we have
35:17
Speaker 2: this long term relationship. And you see this a lot
35:20
Speaker 2: in the portal is that guys go places in the
35:23
Speaker 2: portal where it's like, oh, yeah, he was actually recruited
35:25
Speaker 2: by that assistant coach four years ago, and so I do.
35:29
Speaker 2: I would think to me, it's like a little bit
35:31
Speaker 2: more more subtle than just we're trying to get high
35:34
Speaker 2: school recruits. I think you're you're trying to build as
35:36
Speaker 2: many relationships with as many players as you can, and
35:39
Speaker 2: so I look at that as a real positive.
35:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe I misphrase it in terms of that one
35:44
Speaker 1: the same thing. No, No, just in general of the
35:46
Speaker 1: high school recruiting. I'm just saying in general, I think
35:51
Speaker 1: what you said, the sweet spot is probably in the middle, right,
35:55
Speaker 1: you land a couple of if you can get you know,
36:00
Speaker 1: we could probably have a longer conversation about this. But
36:02
Speaker 1: if you can get elite high school kids to come
36:04
Speaker 1: that are one and done, two year player, of course
36:06
Speaker 1: you take those guys.
36:07
Speaker 3: I think the.
36:07
Speaker 1: Problem is more of the guy who maybe isn't as
36:11
Speaker 1: highly ranked and isn't going to see the court maybe immediately.
36:15
Speaker 1: You have to be able to convince them that there's
36:17
Speaker 1: a two or three year plan and get them to stay,
36:19
Speaker 1: because you don't want to recruit a guy who's on
36:21
Speaker 1: campus for a year, never gets to play and then
36:23
Speaker 1: just leaves the portal. You've gained nothing by that. So
36:25
Speaker 1: I think you want to get guys who either can
36:30
Speaker 1: come in and make an instant impact or they buy
36:31
Speaker 1: your long term plan for development and then sprinkle in
36:34
Speaker 1: some portal guys. I do think they did a pretty
36:36
Speaker 1: nice job because early on I was like well, they're
36:38
Speaker 1: getting all these guys from the portal that are all seniors.
36:40
Speaker 1: They're not gonna having eligibility towards the end. They did,
36:44
Speaker 1: to their credit, identify some younger players. They either have
36:48
Speaker 1: a year or two eligibility left, so they're going to
36:49
Speaker 1: have some continuity if they can keep those play. And again,
36:53
Speaker 1: this is all just a one year plan, right. Every
36:55
Speaker 1: year a college basketball is a one year plan. I mean,
36:57
Speaker 1: who knows that some of these guys could come in
36:59
Speaker 1: and knock it out of the park and and stay
37:01
Speaker 1: multiple years, and and others could say, well, maybe I
37:04
Speaker 1: didn't play as much. I'm gonna go somewhere else. So
37:05
Speaker 1: that's that's the other thing. It's all it's all up
37:08
Speaker 1: in the air and a year to year basis. Last
37:10
Speaker 1: thing I wanted to ask you about, though, is we've
37:13
Speaker 1: been seeing these teasers on social media from IU Athletics
37:17
Speaker 1: and Galen has been banging the drum uh to bring
37:20
Speaker 1: back the Bison for a long time on Crimson Cast.
37:25
Speaker 1: What what has been your reaction to these these teases
37:28
Speaker 1: on social media? It does I mean, obviously nobodys confirm
37:31
Speaker 1: what this is, but I mean it, I mean, it
37:34
Speaker 1: definitely seems like something tied to that or a mascot.
37:38
Speaker 1: What what is your h what is your stance on
37:41
Speaker 1: on bringing back the Bison? And and how how would uh,
37:44
Speaker 1: how excited would your good friend Galen be if the
37:47
Speaker 1: Bison is indeed returning to Bloomington.
37:49
Speaker 2: I mean, I love the idea of IU just gaslighting Galen,
37:51
Speaker 2: like just We're gonna put a media strategy this summer
37:54
Speaker 2: to gaslight a podcaster to get him. No, Galen's been
37:57
Speaker 2: ending our podcast for the last five or six years,
37:59
Speaker 2: bring me the Bison. You know, it's something where it
38:02
Speaker 2: was a mascot for you know, as close to a
38:05
Speaker 2: mascot as IU has had outside of when I was
38:08
Speaker 2: in college and we had the big inflatable guys walking
38:10
Speaker 2: around the football stadium, which was it didn't make a
38:13
Speaker 2: lot of sense, but neither to having a black uniform
38:15
Speaker 2: with an oval logo.
38:17
Speaker 3: Uh, Galen would be over the moon. It would be
38:21
Speaker 3: on top of things. You know.
38:23
Speaker 2: It also kind of started with our our our I
38:25
Speaker 2: would say it all started, but you know, home Field
38:27
Speaker 2: Apparel one of their first big hits was a sweatshirt
38:31
Speaker 2: that had the Bison, the old Bison logo on it
38:34
Speaker 2: and I you got you know, I you wearing a bison.
38:36
Speaker 2: You know Nicks has the Bison in their logo. You know,
38:38
Speaker 2: it goes way back. I'm not even sure you need
38:42
Speaker 2: to have like a bison. You don't need to have
38:44
Speaker 2: a dress up character. I just I think the idea
38:47
Speaker 2: of integrating it more with the university is a cool thing.
38:50
Speaker 2: It gives you more looks, It gives you more ability
38:53
Speaker 2: to have different looks of your uniforms and just different alternatives.
38:57
Speaker 2: And you know, I think it started kind of jest
39:00
Speaker 2: with Galen, kind of messing around, but yeah, I think
39:04
Speaker 2: it would be awesome.
39:05
Speaker 1: You don't you don't want to live bison leading the
39:08
Speaker 1: team out of the tunnel.
39:10
Speaker 3: I think that would be you.
39:12
Speaker 1: That would be incredible.
39:13
Speaker 3: Not saying enough, but you know, it's a little bit
39:14
Speaker 3: like Colorado's already got that.
39:15
Speaker 2: Like I think you got to be careful you're not
39:18
Speaker 2: diving too deep too early, Like you haven't had a
39:20
Speaker 2: mascot for one hundred years and you're just gonna have
39:22
Speaker 2: a live Bison on the field.
39:23
Speaker 1: No. I think it's awesome though, to have a mascot, right,
39:26
Speaker 1: I mean, I think of like, I agree, college football
39:28
Speaker 1: programs watching these rivalry games on TV, they all have mascots.
39:33
Speaker 1: It just like feels like part of the part of
39:36
Speaker 1: the sport, and Indiana hadn't had that for so long.
39:39
Speaker 1: So a lot of people are gonna be like, well,
39:41
Speaker 1: what's the connection with the Bison in Indiana? And they're just
39:44
Speaker 1: doing this to you know, be different or whatever. It's like,
39:46
Speaker 1: all right, it's Indiana football too, right, they need to
39:49
Speaker 1: continue to find ways to differentiate themselves and be different
39:52
Speaker 1: and be bold. I like the idea. I mean, they
39:54
Speaker 1: got some momentum behind the program obviously right now with
39:57
Speaker 1: what happened last year. They got a ton of talent
39:59
Speaker 1: come going back, they did well in the transfer portal.
40:02
Speaker 1: People were looking forward to another season where they could
40:05
Speaker 1: compete in the Big Ten. Why not do something like this?
40:07
Speaker 2: I agree, I agree, I'll recan't. A live Bison would
40:10
Speaker 2: be awesome on the field, I'm in. But I mean
40:12
Speaker 2: they they've been kind of tinkering with this for a while.
40:15
Speaker 2: You know, under Kevin Wilson. One of the intro videos
40:18
Speaker 2: for football had Bison running across the state of Indiana
40:21
Speaker 2: all toward Memorial Stadium. So it's and again like that's
40:24
Speaker 2: what I would say, anybody who was like, where's this
40:25
Speaker 2: coming up? Like bison has been part of IU for years,
40:27
Speaker 2: Like it was there were Bison mascots in Memorial Stadium
40:31
Speaker 2: in like the forties, fifties or six somewhere. You know, yeah,
40:34
Speaker 2: is yeah, way back when. I also it is another
40:38
Speaker 2: little dig in my mind at Purdue, which I love
40:42
Speaker 2: because it's like it's part of the Indiana state flag
40:45
Speaker 2: and it's just kind of hammers home, like, yeah, we're
40:47
Speaker 2: we're the University of Indiana. Like it's where the University
40:51
Speaker 2: of Indiana, universe of the state of Indiana. We have
40:54
Speaker 2: the state flag, we have that bison, that's all ours.
40:57
Speaker 2: I think it would be awesome. It would be really
40:59
Speaker 2: cool if they announced that. I would also love to
41:02
Speaker 2: see a helmet with the Bison logo on it. That
41:05
Speaker 2: would to me, that would be really cool. And I
41:08
Speaker 2: would say same thing with the basketball jerseys. Let's get
41:10
Speaker 2: a jersey that has a bison on you know, the
41:13
Speaker 2: shorts on the side. You know, I'm all for kind
41:17
Speaker 2: of changing things up a little bit as well.
41:19
Speaker 1: I mean, if Adidas can get it together and produce
41:21
Speaker 1: a peril too, I mean, think of how much revenue
41:24
Speaker 1: they could generate just for the university from that because
41:26
Speaker 1: people will buy that stuff. Kids love mascots, you know.
41:30
Speaker 1: You know, I'm sure my kids are a little bit
41:32
Speaker 1: older now, but I'm sure little kids would would love
41:34
Speaker 1: something like that. And I think I think it's just
41:38
Speaker 1: I think it's a smart thing to do. So hopefully,
41:39
Speaker 1: again we're all we're just speculating here. We have no
41:41
Speaker 1: idea what these teasers are, but they're they're coming out
41:45
Speaker 1: pretty well done. Jeremy Gray with some some great acting
41:48
Speaker 1: chops on a couple of those.
41:49
Speaker 2: So then you can have a bike, you know, one
41:52
Speaker 2: of the one of the the rally towels at the
41:53
Speaker 2: stadium could be the Bison. No, it gives you a
41:57
Speaker 2: whole nother layer of things to use, and it does.
42:00
Speaker 2: It feels like Indiana up marketing is starting to I
42:03
Speaker 2: don't say wake up, because they've always been around, but
42:05
Speaker 2: it's like they're really jumping on the opportunity they have
42:08
Speaker 2: with what football has been doing.
42:10
Speaker 3: Well.
42:11
Speaker 1: You have to write because in this era of revenue sharing,
42:13
Speaker 1: you got to you got to bring in whatever you can, right,
42:16
Speaker 1: bring in every dollar, every dollar matter. So you want
42:19
Speaker 1: to be competitive, do what you can well, Scott enjoy
42:22
Speaker 1: your sports weekend. I know it's gonna be a lot
42:24
Speaker 1: of fun holiday weekend.
42:25
Speaker 2: Let me, I want to have a positive a This
42:28
Speaker 2: is this very positive note, but it is something I
42:31
Speaker 2: have thought about at a high level for basketball. You know,
42:35
Speaker 2: let's let's assume that the devis Eras goes really well,
42:39
Speaker 2: and so in two or three years we're at a
42:41
Speaker 2: point where I'm not going to be talking final fours
42:43
Speaker 2: and titles, because that's we got to get there first.
42:45
Speaker 2: Let's just say this higher works and we're to point
42:49
Speaker 2: where we're really happy. What I do think is really
42:51
Speaker 2: cool is that we are in that window you look
42:55
Speaker 2: back on the Cream era once it started humming, like
42:58
Speaker 2: once you had the oladipot Zeller the Holes team, that
43:02
Speaker 2: was awesome. But because that turned out to be awesome,
43:06
Speaker 2: I think we all look back in retrospect and really
43:09
Speaker 2: have a positive remembrance of like Tom Pritchard and Matt Roth,
43:12
Speaker 2: like that whole era, that two or three year window
43:16
Speaker 2: where you were building it. And you know, if you
43:18
Speaker 2: end up building it, it turns into nothing. It's not
43:20
Speaker 2: a ton of fun. But if you build it and
43:22
Speaker 2: then all of a sudden, it's like holy crap, We're
43:23
Speaker 2: beating Kentucky and we're going to a final four and
43:26
Speaker 2: it's like Verdel Jones or not Final four, but you know,
43:28
Speaker 2: we're number one team in the country and we're the
43:29
Speaker 2: number one seed in the tournament.
43:31
Speaker 3: You know it.
43:32
Speaker 2: It helps kind of remember back that the Verdel Jones
43:34
Speaker 2: era a little bit better. And so I do think
43:37
Speaker 2: we're at that point right now where this team, you know,
43:40
Speaker 2: next year's team, you could be at a point where
43:42
Speaker 2: this becomes a really beloved team if things end up
43:46
Speaker 2: turning out right and it's a fun journey that you
43:49
Speaker 2: really can't replicate. And we talked about IU football. Everyone
43:52
Speaker 2: should show up, like everyone shows up, come to the games.
43:54
Speaker 3: Please.
43:55
Speaker 2: It's gonna be hard to replicate last year because last
43:57
Speaker 2: year you can't go up the mountain two different times.
44:01
Speaker 2: You can still go and we still have places we
44:03
Speaker 2: haven't gone in IU football, but it's like it's now
44:06
Speaker 2: there's a little more expectation. So anyway that that's what
44:09
Speaker 2: I've been thinking about, is that I do think that's
44:12
Speaker 2: what's on the table here, as you could have some
44:14
Speaker 2: of the most beloved teams we've had in a while
44:16
Speaker 2: in IU basketball in the next two years, even if
44:18
Speaker 2: they don't accomplish things that we think are you know,
44:21
Speaker 2: at that level in IU basketball.
44:24
Speaker 1: Yeah. But the thing you got to remember too is
44:26
Speaker 1: what kurtising that they did with AU football last year
44:28
Speaker 1: has given fans belief that things can happen quickly. And
44:32
Speaker 1: I think that's the only reason we should.
44:34
Speaker 3: Get over over our skis on that.
44:35
Speaker 2: Like, I think that's something where so if I you
44:38
Speaker 2: doesn't make the sweet sixteen, it's not like it's a
44:40
Speaker 2: failure like to me, no, yeah, but.
44:42
Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's also just given people
44:44
Speaker 1: a new perspective just to say that, you know, it
44:47
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be a two or three year struggle.
44:50
Speaker 1: Look at look at Louisville with Pat Kelsey, look at
44:52
Speaker 1: Kentucky with Mark Pope. I mean, obviously Louisville just got
44:55
Speaker 1: back into the tournament and the year two years before
44:58
Speaker 1: they were historically bad. And Kentucky obviously they were a
45:02
Speaker 1: lot of fun to watch last year made to the
45:03
Speaker 1: Sweet sixteen. So I think, and and again, this is
45:08
Speaker 1: another conversation we could have in the fall, once we
45:10
Speaker 1: know more about all the rosters, and once once we
45:12
Speaker 1: were closer to the season. But you know, I think
45:14
Speaker 1: if you can just come out next season and play
45:16
Speaker 1: a fun, exciting Brandon basketball to watch and get into
45:18
Speaker 1: the tournament, I think that's really gonna be a great
45:20
Speaker 1: jump start for this era of IU basketball.
45:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's not maybe asking too much. You
45:24
Speaker 2: look at Kentucky last year. It's like they go twenty
45:26
Speaker 2: one to ten, ten and eight in the SEC. Make
45:28
Speaker 2: it the sweet sixteen. It's like done. I'll take that like.
45:31
Speaker 3: That, that would be an unbelievable season.
45:34
Speaker 2: And you know what I'm excited about too, is don't
45:36
Speaker 2: forget we're playing Kentucky next year. It's like all of
45:38
Speaker 2: a sudden, like it's like wow that that series starts immediately,
45:41
Speaker 2: and I'm excited. I'm gonna I'm gonna try and go
45:43
Speaker 2: to RUP for that game. I think there's a lot
45:45
Speaker 2: of little touch points early in the year where you
45:47
Speaker 2: could really jazz this fan base up at a very high.
45:50
Speaker 1: Degree for sure. Well, Scott, enjoy your weekend in Indianapolis.
45:54
Speaker 3: Thank yous, go enjoy your Monday off.
45:58
Speaker 1: Help everyone has a great more Memorial Day weekend. And
46:02
Speaker 1: thanks everybody as always for listening to podcasts on the Brink.
46:04
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46:06
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46:08
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46:12
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46:14
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