Latest / Destination Unlimited with Victor Fuhrman / David Ferrugio – DeadTalks

Transcript

David Ferrugio – DeadTalks · Destination Unlimited with Victor Fuhrman

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: My name is Victor Furman. Some call me The Voice.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: I've always been fascinated with human nature, spirituality, science, and
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: the crossroads at which they meet. Join me now and
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  Speaker 1: we will explore these topics and so much more with
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  Speaker 1: fascinating guests, authors, and experts who will guide us to
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Destination Unlimited. Since his father was killed in the 9-11
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: attacks on the World Trade Center, David Ferugio has spent
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: decades channeling his grief into meaningful conversations with celebrities, including
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Neil deGrasse Tyson, Jamie Alexander, Rainn Wilson, and Tony Hawk,
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  Speaker 1: experts and everyday people about death, spirituality, and and the
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  Speaker 1: afterlife on his Dead Talks podcast. The show has more
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  Speaker 1: than one million followers. David believes he has received signs
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: from the afterlife, and his mother had a near-death experience
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  Speaker 1: where his father came through to her. He's also spoken
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  Speaker 1: on his podcast with clairvoyant and medium Chris McKinnell, the
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  Speaker 1: grandson of Ed and Lorraine Warren, who inspired The Conjuring films.
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  Speaker 1: His website is deadtalks.net. And he joins me this week
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  Speaker 1: on Destination Unlimited to share his path and book, You're
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: Not Dead Yet. Please join me in welcoming to Destination Unlimited,
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  Speaker 1: David Ferugio. Welcome, David.
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me.
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  Speaker 1: David, at the age of 12, your life changed with
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: the loss of your father on 9-11. What was your
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  Speaker 1: youthful understanding of life and death prior to this tragedy?
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  Speaker 2: I didn't know my butt from my elbow. So I
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  Speaker 2: don't know if I had any wisdom or knowledge or
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  Speaker 2: any of that, which made it such an interesting experience
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  Speaker 2: on my own. I've connected with a lot of people
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  Speaker 2: that have lost someone around a similar age, 12 or younger,
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  Speaker 2: a little older. And there seems to be a lot
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  Speaker 2: of patterns and similarities. And a lot of it was
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  Speaker 2: just not knowing what was what, a lot of forgetfulness.
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  Speaker 2: So a lot of my journey has been forgetting. But
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  Speaker 2: at that time, I was old enough to understand what
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  Speaker 2: was happening because it was graphic enough enough on that day,
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  Speaker 2: but I, I wasn't ready or prepared or developed enough
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  Speaker 2: to emotionally handle it or really comprehend it.
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  Speaker 1: And how did you learn of your father's death?
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  Speaker 2: Well, I saw it on the TV for the first
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  Speaker 2: time after school. So I was in seventh grade, again,
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  Speaker 2: 12 years old. A friend of mine told me a
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  Speaker 2: plane hit the building knowing my dad worked there. I
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  Speaker 2: didn't know what that meant. I stayed in school all
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  Speaker 2: day because my family made that decision. I was safe.
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  Speaker 2: They didn't know what was going on. They were trying
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  Speaker 2: to figure it out. And so I was safe in
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  Speaker 2: school right down the block. And my school didn't show
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  Speaker 2: anyone the footage like I heard some schools did. So
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  Speaker 2: we were kind of left in the dark but knew
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  Speaker 2: something happened. So long story short, by the time I
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: made it home, which was around 2.30, 3 o'clock, that's
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  Speaker 2: when I saw cars outside my house. When I walked
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  Speaker 2: around the bend, when I could see my house from
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  Speaker 2: the distance and I knew clearly something happened like I
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  Speaker 2: knew something happened but this made it feel more severe
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  Speaker 2: and as soon as I walked into the house me
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  Speaker 2: and my best friend who I was walking home with
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  Speaker 2: got separated and I just remember making my way to
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  Speaker 2: the TV in the living room and watching the replay
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  Speaker 2: for the first time and that's when I it all
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  Speaker 2: came out and that's when I just blacked out and
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  Speaker 2: it was a replay that's the strange part looking back
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  Speaker 2: at it this is all done so I was watching
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  Speaker 2: the replay around 2.30 3 o'clock and My day was
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  Speaker 2: severed in two. I remember everything I just told you.
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  Speaker 2: And then as soon as I saw the footage and
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  Speaker 2: all went black, my body just kind of protected me
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  Speaker 2: or shut down. I don't remember after that. And that's
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  Speaker 2: where that journey of forgetfulness kind of kicked in.
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  Speaker 1: In the introduction to your book, You're Not Dead Yet,
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  Speaker 1: you share, and I quote, grief didn't just teach me something.
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  Speaker 1: It taught me everything. How did grief and loss teach
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  Speaker 1: you to live?
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  Speaker 2: You know, grief is a, B-I-T-C-H of a teacher, but
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  Speaker 2: it has taught me so much. And I feel like
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  Speaker 2: it has taught me everything about life because it's made
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  Speaker 2: me more present, even when I'm not perfectly present. But
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  Speaker 2: I don't agree with its tactics and the timing of
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  Speaker 2: which you may find those lessons or when they'll reveal themselves.
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  Speaker 2: That's up in the air. I'm not even saying that as, oh,
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  Speaker 2: you just lost someone. Look for the lesson right now. No,
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  Speaker 2: that's BS. It's just I feel like for me, it
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  Speaker 2: was just revealed over a long time. And now when
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  Speaker 2: life hits me hard, as it inevitably does with everyone,
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  Speaker 2: I just have more faith that there is gold in
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  Speaker 2: the discomfort. There is gold in the pain, but it's
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  Speaker 2: not that you have to seek for it and be
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  Speaker 2: toxically positive to find the lesson in all this. But
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  Speaker 2: me having lost my dad at 12, it just made
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  Speaker 2: me learn the fragility of life. And I feel like
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  Speaker 2: one of the bigger lessons that I've learn whether subconsciously
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  Speaker 2: at the time. And then as I became a man,
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  Speaker 2: which is a lot of my experience, I lost my
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  Speaker 2: dad at 12, along with plenty of other people. And
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  Speaker 2: it happened in that way. And so what I mean
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  Speaker 2: by that is, okay, at 12 years old, I realized my,
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  Speaker 2: the closest people in my life, the people that I
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  Speaker 2: love the most can just be gone in a blink
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  Speaker 2: of an eye. That's the quote unquote reality of this world. Okay.
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  Speaker 2: And it can happen in that way. So it just,
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  Speaker 2: the combination of the two really made me grow up
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  Speaker 2: a lot faster. But then there was a choice where
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  Speaker 2: I feel, okay, I can hold on to things super tight.
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  Speaker 2: I can be paranoid or neurotic that I'm going to
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  Speaker 2: lose my loved ones. It could happen to my mom,
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  Speaker 2: my family, my friends in a blink of an eye.
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  Speaker 2: It already happened to me and it happened in a
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  Speaker 2: crazy way. Why can't it happen again? Or I can
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  Speaker 2: just be aware, yeah, that happened, but then be more
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  Speaker 2: grateful that what I have in front of me because
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  Speaker 2: it can be taken so quick and in the way
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  Speaker 2: it did. So there's like two choices there where I
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  Speaker 2: felt like it was fear of gratitude as cliche as
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  Speaker 2: that sounds. And that was just one big lesson for
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  Speaker 2: the rest of my life in a sense that, you know,
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  Speaker 2: everything's fleeting, uh, it's temporal and that doesn't have to
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  Speaker 2: be a bad thing. I think it just makes me
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  Speaker 2: appreciate every single moment right now and try to live
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  Speaker 2: in the sweet spot of the present, which is right now.
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  Speaker 1: Did it teach you something about having purpose in life? Oof.
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  Speaker 2: Uh, Yeah. I mean, I think it added a lot
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  Speaker 2: of pressure to me thinking, Oh man, what am I?
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  Speaker 2: I mean, that's a lot of people feel that I
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  Speaker 2: would think, you know, at least in my circle. And
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  Speaker 2: I think it's common in the world to feel like
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  Speaker 2: what's my purpose. And that whole big question when it's
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  Speaker 2: dimmed over the years, I don't know if it taught
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  Speaker 2: me that, but I think if anything, maybe it added
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  Speaker 2: more pressure for everything I aforementioned, just this, you know,
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  Speaker 2: being present and living for the now. And what am
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  Speaker 2: I going to do? That whole question of legacy is
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  Speaker 2: something I write about. I don't even know what that is.
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  Speaker 2: That felt like pressure. And I think sometimes I try
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  Speaker 2: to relieve the valve of that pressure to try to
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  Speaker 2: understand what my purpose is. Like right now, I feel
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  Speaker 2: blessed because for the first time in my life, after
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  Speaker 2: 37 years or so, even though I've been doing this
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  Speaker 2: for six, I actually feel like maybe if we want
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: to go woo-woo on it, maybe this is why I'm here.
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  Speaker 2: Maybe this work that I'm doing is my small piece
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  Speaker 2: of my small service that I can offer. Cause I,
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  Speaker 2: it feels that it feels like I'm supposed to be
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  Speaker 2: doing that, but it took a long time to get
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  Speaker 2: that after a while of taking a journey of learning
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  Speaker 2: what I don't want to do. My journey is that
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  Speaker 2: that's what my journey has been. I feel like I,
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  Speaker 2: it was learning what I don't want to do before
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  Speaker 2: realizing what I do want to do. And I feel
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  Speaker 2: like after this very long journey of, you know, losing
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  Speaker 2: my dad and losing people since then, of course, and
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  Speaker 2: talking to so many people that have experienced death and
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  Speaker 2: life and death, it's, Purpose doesn't have to be this
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  Speaker 2: massive thing. And that's something I kind of harped on
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  Speaker 2: for a while. I was like, what am I going
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  Speaker 2: to do? How am I going to make really big moves? Like, yeah,
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  Speaker 2: you can do, people do big things, whatever quote unquote
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  Speaker 2: big things are. But it's honestly, purpose is just the
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  Speaker 2: way we interact day to day, the things we do.
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  Speaker 2: Whatever we're focusing on, that's our purpose. And I just
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  Speaker 2: don't think we have to add so much pressure to it.
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  Speaker 2: And maybe that's the lesson, this idea to release the
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  Speaker 2: pressure of having to do this big, grandiose purpose in life.
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  Speaker 2: I don't know.
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  Speaker 1: I had a spiritual teacher who used to say, that
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  Speaker 1: everything is unfolding in divine order, that there was a
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  Speaker 1: purpose for everything that happened in life. We may not
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  Speaker 1: see it, we may not recognize it, but in retrospect,
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  Speaker 1: there was a purpose. Do you feel the same way?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I do. I'm not sure if it's one purpose
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  Speaker 2: or many purposes, and maybe this whole thing is a
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  Speaker 2: perfect blend of predeterminism and free will. That's partially how
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  Speaker 2: I feel. I feel like maybe it's It's like following
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  Speaker 2: a blueprint when you're building a house kind of thing.
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  Speaker 2: Maybe the path is set, but you can still make
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  Speaker 2: different decisions and end up with a different creation at
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  Speaker 2: the end, though you've been kind of given a little
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  Speaker 2: bit of a formula. And maybe that's where the free
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  Speaker 2: will comes. I just do wonder if there's how unique
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  Speaker 2: of a purpose there is for each and every individual.
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  Speaker 2: And that's where I wonder if that's true. Maybe it
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  Speaker 2: goes back to what I was saying. Like this idea
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  Speaker 2: of purpose doesn't necessarily have to be Making 150 of
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  Speaker 2: the greatest Hollywood films of all time or creating a
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  Speaker 2: massive nonprofit and changing millions of lives. What if my
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  Speaker 2: purpose or one person's purpose is literally one moment in life?
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  Speaker 2: Or you save someone's life. You know how many people
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  Speaker 2: have saved someone's life in our time? And what if
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  Speaker 2: that was their purpose? They saved that person's life and
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  Speaker 2: sacrificed their own. And they weren't doing crap before that.
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  Speaker 2: But that was the moment. That was their purpose. And
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  Speaker 2: they served it for that one moment to save that
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  Speaker 2: one life. Obviously, that's just a hypothetical. But I'm just saying,
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  Speaker 2: what if that's what it is? And it doesn't have
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  Speaker 2: to be this. 80 year journey of purpose of living
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  Speaker 2: a full life it's maybe it's just for one moment
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  Speaker 2: maybe it's just one relationship maybe it's just one finding
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  Speaker 2: and i think that's that's a question i have that's
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  Speaker 2: rhetorical i don't i don't know what it is um
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  Speaker 2: but i i do believe there is some kind of
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  Speaker 2: so there's still kind of some underlining current there with
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  Speaker 2: purpose and But also then I think maybe there's the
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  Speaker 2: foundations of just, like Kurt Vonnegut says, a purpose of
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  Speaker 2: human life is to love everyone who's around to be loved.
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  Speaker 2: Am I okay? Maybe that's not so bad.
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  Speaker 1: Absolutely. I'll share a quick personal story. So my wife
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  Speaker 1: and I both had independent careers. I was in business
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  Speaker 1: and welding technology. She was a writer and an editor.
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  Speaker 1: And we both had a calling in our mid to
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  Speaker 1: late 40s to go to an interfaith seminary here in
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  Speaker 1: New York. And we had different reasons for it. None
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  Speaker 1: of us had even contemplated the possibility of being of
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  Speaker 1: service to our community after 9-11. And on 9-11, I
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  Speaker 1: was out in Billings, Montana at a business conference. She
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  Speaker 1: was in New York. And we were watching the news
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  Speaker 1: that morning, and we saw what happened. And the next day,
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  Speaker 1: she went down and found out that the Red Cross
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  Speaker 1: was looking for chaplains to work at the Family Assistance
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  Speaker 1: Center on the west side of Manhattan. And we both volunteered.
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  Speaker 1: When I got back that Saturday, we both volunteered. We
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  Speaker 1: were trained as chaplains. And for the next three and
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  Speaker 1: a half months, we served at the Family Assistance Center
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  Speaker 1: in the evenings and did our day jobs by day
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  Speaker 1: and found a great purpose in helping and serving everyone
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  Speaker 1: who was affected by it. And I'm grateful for that opportunity.
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  Speaker 2: That's absolutely beautiful. I mean, thank you for that service
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  Speaker 2: and thank you for sharing that. It's amazing.
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  Speaker 1: Now, you had your mothers and your sisters and you
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  Speaker 1: became the man of the house at the age of 12.
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  Speaker 1: What was that like and how did your mom and
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: sisters contribute to raising you?
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  Speaker 2: Oh man. I mean, they fully contributed. They, they, they've
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  Speaker 2: done some, they continue to do and have done so
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  Speaker 2: much for me. And I'm, I'm incredibly grateful to have
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  Speaker 2: not only them three in my life, but three strong,
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  Speaker 2: wonderful women, you know, and the ironic part is we all,
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  Speaker 2: for the most part, all handle it so differently. You know,
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  Speaker 2: I was so introverted in a sense that I didn't
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  Speaker 2: express myself so much. Um, I, I, come a long
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  Speaker 2: way since then where I'm clearly talking to you on
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: your show about it so things have changed but that's
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: also with the help of my family being patient with
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: me and allowing me to be me which can be
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: a pain in the butt sometimes but in regards to
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: the man of the house that's a strange thing even
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: the other day had a conversation with some people also
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: in the 9-11 community and a few other men that
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: lost their father and they said the same thing and
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  Speaker 2: you know I've started connecting with people that were similar
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: young the 9-11 kids if you will and having more
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: conversations with them and for a long time i always
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: harped in that sentence you're the man of the house
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: now which i never took it in um in a
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: way where i was resentful i was like no that's
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: actually factual besides the fact that i didn't hit puberty
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: at 12 years old and uh i heard other 9-11
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: kids saying the same thing they were told that too
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  Speaker 2: and it was just you know it felt uh it
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: was it's nice to find that similarity. And sometimes I
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: feel like in life, we're always constantly looking for answers
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  Speaker 2: and how to get out of this and how to
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: do this and what's really going to help. But sometimes
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  Speaker 2: you're just going to hear someone else going through the
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: similar thing as you are, and that's enough in itself.
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  Speaker 2: And so my point of bringing that up is like,
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  Speaker 2: once I heard that it was a little bit of
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: a release valve in just hearing other kids being told
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  Speaker 2: the same thing, because how was a 12 year old
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  Speaker 2: or however anyone else was at any relate, not even
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: just not 11, anyone that's lost a parent young, and
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  Speaker 2: you're the sole surviving boy slash man of the house.
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  Speaker 2: What are you supposed to do? You know, I was
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: barely emotionally developed. I was old enough to understand what
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: was going on. But that question sat with me for
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  Speaker 2: a while in the form of, did I show up
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  Speaker 2: for my family? Did I step up as my family?
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  Speaker 2: And I felt a little bit of, I don't want
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: to say shame, but I just had it in the
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: back of my head wondering if I did. And, you know,
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: eventually I had a little bit of, I brought it
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  Speaker 2: up with my mom. And when I had her on
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: the podcast, she shut that down saying, no, you were great.
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  Speaker 2: But I just wonder how much those words really echoed
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: in my head for a long time.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: What were the first signs from the afterlife that you
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: and your family received from your dad, and how did
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: they affect you?
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  Speaker 2: You know, I don't remember specifically any very vivid signs
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: that I received until many, many, many, many years later.
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  Speaker 2: I know my sister, for some reason, she's always a
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: little bit more, had more proclivity to having some signs
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: that really affected her. My family and I actually went
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: to see a medium many, like, I don't know how
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: many years after it was. I don't think it was
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: that long after, but a few years after 9-11. And
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: I was very young as well. So I don't get
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: my memory is shot. So I don't remember a lot
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: of things in regards to how that session went, but
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: it was a very well-known medium at the time. And
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: I remember some messages came through regarding a decision I
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: had to make. I was coming up in high school
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: and that came very specific, but the messages that we've
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: gotten throughout the years have been coupled with some medium
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: experience that I know my family had that seemed to
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: be very clear and seemed to be healing for them,
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: but I don't want to speak for them on that.
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  Speaker 2: I think it's one of those mixed bags where if
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: you do get a sign, especially if through the medium channel,
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: regardless of whatever someone may believe, it's a mixed bag
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: of super heavy emotions and maybe happiness, maybe sadness. But
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: at the end of the day, I think when you
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: think about it, I think a lot of people in
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: my family felt comforted knowing maybe they're still around us
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: and continuing on. But for me, I don't know how
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: much time you have. I have a specific story that
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: happened maybe a few years ago. Thank you. I felt
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: like it was a sign. So I was at the
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: 9-11 memorial with my girlfriend at the time. And we
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: took the ferry from Jersey to Manhattan. We were both
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: visiting from the West Coast where I am now. And
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: we were walking through downtown past the 9-11 memorial. I said, hey,
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: I know you haven't seen it. if you want to
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: see it, let's go, but don't go for me. I've
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: been a million times. If you would like to see it,
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: let's do it. So it was very sponsored. It was
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: the spontaneity of the decision is part of the story
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: because it set up the timing of what gave me
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: the chills forever. We walk into the Memorial and we
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: get in there as we make our way downstairs for
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: anyone that doesn't know it. There's a massive, uh, main
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: level at the bottom where mostly everything is. And as
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: soon as you enter one specific section, which again, it's open,
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: but you're going towards this one section, which is more
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: of a memorial with photos and specific photographs and a
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: little screen with everyone that died. As soon as I
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: hit the threshold where I can hear the audio on
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: the speaker of that section, so once I cross a
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: specific threshold, I can just start hearing it. And faster
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: than I could say it out loud, my brain just processed, oh,
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: this voice is very familiar. And I hear, as I'm
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: thinking that, and I hear my mom on the loudspeaker
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: at the 9-11 memorial from a replay from I don't
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: know if she's done, she's read the names once or twice,
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: maybe over the last 22, 23 years at that time.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: And all I hear is, and my father, I'm sorry.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: And my husband, David Francis Ferugio. So at that exact
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: moment that we randomly went to the memorial, we happen
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: to be on this trip. We happen to walk into
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: this section. I've been there so numerous times. Don't even,
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: didn't even recognize the audio playback. And I hear my
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: mom say my father's name at the split second. I
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: can hear the audio. And it was one of those
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: moments where, We both looked at each other, stopped in
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: our tracks, and we both got the chills. And I
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: still get the chills just thinking about it. And it's
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: one of those things where, of course, my logical brain says, well, yeah,
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: the playing and the odds and the probability. But sometimes
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: when it comes to signs, which I think just manifest
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: in our natural world as they do, it can often
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: be easily explained. They don't have to be a paranormal experience.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: Just the meaning behind it, the circumstance, the timing, and
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: the chills on my arm. just forever tell me that
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: was just a simple wink from my dad and the
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: whole universe speaking to me in some capacity. And that's
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: just what I believe to this day.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: It was a true synchronicity.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: A true synchronicity. And do with it what you will.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: It's just one of those things that kind of like,
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: all right, nod, thank you, and move on. And then
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: that's it.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: You shared that you survived, reframed, healed, and stayed connected
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: through humor. What brings you smiles and laughter?
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: Oof. probably things that are not appropriate for your show.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: I have a lot of dark comedy. And again, it's
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: not written jokes. I'm not going to give you a
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: dirty knock-knock joke right now. It's just in-the-moment type stuff.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: But for me, I'm just laughing. I could laugh at
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: silly dad jokes. I could laugh at the silliest stuff.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: And then all the way down to the dark comedy
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: when it comes to you know, uh, breaking the ice
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: when maybe my story comes up and I see people
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: feeling very heavy and sorry for me. And I might
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: just have to say something, uh, to really disrupt the
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: situation to show that it's okay. And for me, humor
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: is just, I don't want to say it's not a
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: defense mechanism at this point, which I'm sure it can
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: be like people can, maybe I have in the past
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: and maybe sometimes I do diffuse a situation defensively because
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: I'm uncomfortable. Like, yeah, that's a real thing. I'd be
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: aware of that. But for me, it's just straight coping
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: where it I think it just rearranges the perspective of
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: the situation. It's a disruptor in a good way where
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: it just relieves the valve and you can look at
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: it a different way. And at the end of the day,
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: it's just, it's a laugh. Like it's a reason why
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: laughing biologically feels good and is biologically good for us.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: So it's, I know there's times where we have to
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: be respectful. I'm not just going to make us an
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: off-color joke to someone who I'm not sure they can
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: handle it at the wrong time. I have to have
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: a filter out of respect to others. But when it
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: comes to me and, My circle and people that I know,
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: nothing's off limits. And I think it's just kind of
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: laughing at the face of life because life is absurd.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: Things that have happened to people that I can't relate
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: to because it seems on paper it's gone through things
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: that I can't comprehend. And the people I've endured, this
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: life is so insane and incomprehensible. And I don't know
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: what to do. half the time or three quarters or
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: 90% of the time. Sometimes I just don't think they'll
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: laugh because it's so ridiculous and it feels good. And
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: what they always say is you don't have to be
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: the comedian in the group but allow laughter in. Even
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: when you're in the depths of hell, if something just
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: makes you, I'm not saying force it, but allow the
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: coexistence of joy and pain. Allow the coexistence of sadness
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: and laughter because they can happen at the same time.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: And it's easy to want to feel guilt for how
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: can I laugh at this time? How can I be
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: possibly smiling? Well, I think that's how it works. I
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: think there can be a coexist. You can either have
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: happy tears or you're crying and laughing at the same time.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: I think there's a reason why that could simultaneously happen.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: And I just ask people to allow it in. I'm
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: not saying you have to be a comedian. I think
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: it's just the power of laughter is life-changing.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: I've got one for you if you'd like.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: Sure. A joke?
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: Oh, yes, please.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: Do you know that chocolate is now demanding gender identity?
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: Excuse me?
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: Chocolate is now demanding gender identity in the pronouns.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: How's that?
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: Her, she. I thought you'd like that one. That's good.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: That's good. That's good.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: I'm going to have to plug you on that. I'm
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: going to have to use that one.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: Thank you. You also share that music was integral to
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: coping with grief. What was the medicine you found in music?
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: Oh, you know, uh, when it comes to anything I say,
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: you know, make it your own. Cause as I said,
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: 12 times, I may be an author and a host
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: of a podcast. I still have no idea what the
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: hell I'm talking about. But for me, music was again,
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: a piece of the puzzle for me. And it wasn't
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: just putting my headphones on. It was when I was
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: a young teen, I, my dad had a punching bag
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: in the basement. I used to put hybrid theory by
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: Lincoln park on and just blast it. and I don't, I,
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure I did it when Noah was home
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: when I had a little bit of time and I
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: would just go to town on the punching bag, listen
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: to Chester Beddington, the lead singer at the time he's
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: passed to Lincoln park. And he was very, uh, very
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: raw lyrics, just screaming. It's hard. It's hardcore music, kind
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: of hardcore, hardcore, but it's pretty, it's pretty heavy rock.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: And his lyrics are very specific to pain. And, you know,
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: just now looking back, you can see what it felt,
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: feel like what he was going through. And for me,
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: it was the, the raw aggression of the music, his lyrics,
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: even though he was talking about something completely different than
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: what I was going through, it just felt like it
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: was someone else's pain being a voice for mine and
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: the aggression of the music and the cadence of the
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: type of song, which is perfect for punching a bag.
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: And it was a way for me to get this emotional,
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: physical release out. It was a way for me to
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: maneuver the energy within me that I know needed to
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: be moved because I didn't know what to do with it,
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: nor did I know what it was. And that was
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: just one piece of many puzzles that I don't know.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: I think really helped. I think it was just, I
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: didn't rely on it as the only answer. Cause I'm
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: not sure there's one thing that's always going to, I
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: don't know if there's anything, but one thing that's really
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: going to heal you fully. I just think it helped
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: me on my journey to get to where I am today,
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: which is still a work in progress. But at that
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: time it was a way for me to release frustration
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: that I had, you know, whether I really realized it
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: or not, I think I wasn't fresh. I got frustrated easily.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: I got frustrated quickly. I would let it out of
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: my mom when she didn't deserve it or need it.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: And she would give me patience and we would bang heads.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: Probably at my own fault for just being too snappy
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: and quick. But I do think those punching bags just
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: allowed at least one way of getting this pent up
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: energy out. And again, I'm not equating that to the
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: end all and be all, but I do think it
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: was important parts of everything I've done.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: My guest is David Ferugio. His book, You're Not Dead Yet,
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: How Grief and Loss Can Teach You to Live, David,
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: please share with our listeners where they can get your
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: book and find out more about you and your wonderful podcast.
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: I really appreciate that. Yeah, the podcast is called Dead Talks,
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: as you mentioned, D-E-A-D, talks, two words. You can find
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: it wherever you get podcasts or on social media, Dead
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: Talks Podcast. And the book, you can check it on
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: Amazon or wherever you want to purchase a book these days.
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: It's You're Not Dead Yet, How Grief and Loss Can
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: Teach You to Live. And I hope you give it
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: a shot. It's an easy read. I didn't write it
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: as a prescription. just sort of from perspective from not
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: only my story and some stories that I've had on
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: the show over the last six years. So I appreciate
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: the opportunity and thanks for having me.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: And we'll be back with more of David after these
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: words on the OM Times Radio Network.
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: The cutting edge of conscious radio, OM Times Radio, IOM FM.
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: OM Times Magazine is one of the leading online content
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: providers of positivity, wellness, and personal empowerment. A philanthropic organization,
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: Their net proceeds are funneled to support worldwide charity initiatives
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: via Humanity Healing International. Through their commitment to creating community
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: and providing conscious content, they aspire to uplift humanity on
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: a global scale. OM Times, co-creating a more conscious lifestyle.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: Back on Destination Unlimited, my guest this week, David Ferugio,
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: his book, You're Not Dead Yet, How Grief and Loss
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: Can Teach You to Live. David, in 2020, you launched
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: your amazing podcast, Dead Talks. What inspired that show and
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: how has it helped you to thrive?
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: I've just learned so much from other people and through
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: conversation and talking to people that I don't necessarily see
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: eye to eye on and keeping an open mind. There's
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: a few reasons why I started it, but to give
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: you the bullet point version, I felt guilty of the
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: attention I got of losing my dad on September 11th
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: and realizing I had all this support. And then I
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: guess I sondered about people who lost someone on a
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: regular old Tuesday and don't get seen as much. Also
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: coupled with the idea that I just, I wasn't someone
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: who spoke about it for a long time and learning,
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: you know, how helpful it can be. And the last
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: one is people say death and taxes, but not everyone
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: pays their taxes apparently. So we're left with debt. It's
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: the most universal thing there is. And why aren't we
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: talking about this more? Not that this was some pioneer
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: idea to talk about death. But I think coupled with
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: all those reasons, I just wanted to have conversations. I
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: wanted to share other stories. Yeah, I want people to
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: understand my why, but it's about the person I'm sitting
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: across and just share eclectic stories and perspectives and hopefully
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: can connect with people that need to hear that and
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: that need the support or don't have the support or
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: just interested in like me and realizing, you know, we're
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: all going that way. So it's going to face us
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: one way or the other. So let's have a chat
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: about it.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: And thank you for helping people deal with their grief.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: That's a wonderful gift.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, you gotta ask the people, I guess.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: I hope I am. I'm very blessed to have gotten
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: a lot of messages, not only from, you know, things
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: I say, you know, I have plenty of thoughts and
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: I share my perspectives and I've had my own losses,
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: of course, but it's also the entirety of the show where,
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: you know, I have different guests on and some guests
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: may be good for you. Some people like, yeah, that, that,
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: that one's not for me and that's fine. I just
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: ask people to not judge the podcast one at a time.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: It says the whole, because it's become a library of
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: these conversations. And hopefully people can bear with my voice
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: along the way, because I am the host. So whether
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: you like it or not, you're going to hear from me.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: I know exactly what you're talking about.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: Your voice is a lot better than mine though.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you. Who are some of your favorite guests
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: and what did you learn from them?
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: Oh, my mom. I have my mom on, but I
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: don't know if they give you guys the corny answer,
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: but I will actually real quickly. Cause I mean, And
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: with the other, one of the other segments we did,
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: you know, I felt guilty that if I, if I
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: did a show up, it was like, did I step
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: up as a man? Was it there for my sisters?
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: And there's a beautiful moment, an absolute beautiful moment with
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: me and my mom. Again, everyone's gets to watch this.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: She's like, no, you were a wonderful son. You carried
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: your father's love. And, and, and then she had an
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: epiphany moment in the middle of it. She's like, Oh,
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: the F word. It's like, because of you and Jack, again,
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: your sisters, because you're around, I got through it because
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: you were my reason why. So just your existence got
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: me through this entire thing. So there's no reason for
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: you to have these feelings of shame or guilt that
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: you didn't show up because you did. And that was
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: just a very important, pivotal, selfish reason for me. And
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: it's just incredible that just from locking in yourselves in
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: a room, forcing yourself to have a conversation, a podcast,
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: you can just have some incredible healing personally. But outside
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: of the personal reasons, I've had so many great conversations. Um,
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: you know, I've had Neil deGrasse Tyson was a fun
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: one just because there was, he was one of the
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: ones that I've had some really incredible people on the show.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: I can name drop all day. His felt the weirdest
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: cause he was one of the first, you know, uh,
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: really public names that I had on my show. So just,
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: it's one of those things where you've seen a guy's
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: face for so often and you've seen the guy's name
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: on TV and you've watched him and then you're talking
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: to him. It's like, wait, what? So that, that was
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: just a cool one for me just personally. Cause it
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: was like the first, quote unquote, big public name that
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: I had. So that episode was cool. But at the
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: end of the day, selfishly for me, the family episodes
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: are really powerful just because, I mean, also for the audience,
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: you're getting like a very personal look at a real
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: family dynamic. And my, my sisters and my moms are
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: brave enough to be willing to have that conversation in
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: front of other people.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting. You mentioned Neil deGrasse Tyson, because
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: I was going to ask you about him. Here's a scientist.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: What did a scientist bring to you in that interview?
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: He brought me things that are way above my head.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: But we had an interesting conversation because it wasn't just
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: the normal focus, what you think we talk about. Because
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: he told me this story, how he lived in Manhattan
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: that day. So we actually talked about his experience with 9-11,
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: which was pretty profound because I still can't find any
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: other interview with Neil where he's just having that conversation.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: I could overlook it, but it's a very unique and
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: powerful conversation that he was willing to share and open
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: up emotionally. I thought it was great. But then we
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: got into some of the questions towards the end, I believe,
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: about the science of it. And we just have different
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: opinions because, you know, he's brilliant. He's way smarter than
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: me and has a much deeper understanding of the scientific
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: and physics world. But I, even with that explanation that
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to be able to explain verbatim, but
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: he gave a very scientific answer about how, you know,
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: we break down and we go into energy and we
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: can disperse into the earth or to the atmosphere and
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: this or that, which yes, makes very much sense. But
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: at the same time, I think maybe he's coming from
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: just a more scientific objective understanding where, you know, you want,
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: concrete answers and i just don't think we have that
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: so i think some of his answers you gave are
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: absolutely beautiful to be honest because he was very poetic
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: about it but from my understanding i don't want to
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: speak for him because it was some time ago uh
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: i don't think he has any concrete uh processing of
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: that oh yeah we definitely continue on i think um
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: whatever the science points to and from my understanding the
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: science doesn't point to a concrete answer in either direction
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: But I just think we're dealing with stuff where just
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: science hasn't even, and the most brilliant minds like him,
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: we just haven't, we're not caught up yet.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: In addition to your family, was there anyone, I guess,
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: that you had who brought a sense of healing to you?
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, honestly, this is going to sound silly,
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: but almost every episode brings something to me because it's
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: a new perspective. I can talk to a thousand people
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: that all lost their dad. I can speak to a
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: thousand people that lost X, Y, Z, and that's a
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: thousand different perspectives. a thousand different stories and there's always
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: something to take from it. But, you know, I had
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: a very, very powerful and special episode with Elena and
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: Phillip and Phillip was dying. He knew he was terminal
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: and they happened by accident. It was a conversation. I've always,
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: I was always wanted to have, as long as I
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: haven't naturally talked to someone who knew they were dying,
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: because I think there's a lot of, I think there's
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: a lot of power to that for the listener, maybe
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: for them and for their family. And so this conversation
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: happened and I'm still in touch with Elena. Elena happens
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: to find the show. Hello, she's a darling. And it
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: was her and her husband. So I had them both
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: in the show and he, I forget the exact timeline,
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: which was expected of when he thought how much time
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: he had left, but he passed a lot sooner than
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: we thought and passed away just weeks after we spoke.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: Maybe just a couple of weeks after we had the conversation,
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: he passed away. And it's a conversation I suggest listening
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: to but at the same time, just the raw power
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: of just sitting across from someone and his wife, knowing
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: it was going to end. And the ironic part is
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: we all know it's going to end. He just happened
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: to have more of a timetable on it. He just
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: happened to have a clock on it compared to what
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: all of us or most of us, we just don't
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: have a clock attached to when we do, but we
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: know it's going to happen. So to have this man
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: just be calm and open up and see his wife
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: just visibly, viscerally feeling the pain, trying to adjust to
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: a life and open up was just so moving. And again,
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: it just goes back to the initial lesson I learned
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: as a 12 year old boy, how quickly this can go.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: And to just sit there outside of all the amazing
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: things he said that I don't have to regurgitate, just
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: to witness a man, just to look at a man
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: knowing his time is coming up very soon. It just
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: shifts you. And I have my own flaws of forgetting
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: things like that. So I'm happy you asked. I'm happy
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: I brought it up because it puts things in perspective
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: to contemplate that because I can get busy like we
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: all do and just forget it. And then I get
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: caught up in the noise and the static of life.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: And then when I think of this conversation, it brings
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: me back to just take a breath and like, what
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: really matters? And that's ultimately what comes out from a
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: conversation like that for me.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: In my capacity as an interfaith minister, of course, I've
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: officiated many, many funerals and dealt with bereavement. And one
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: of the things that I hear at funerals is, I
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: wish I had told them I love them. I wish
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: I had given forgiveness or asked for forgiveness. How important
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: is that in daily life for us to recognize that
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: tomorrow doesn't really, it has no guarantee?
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's huge. And now I'm recollecting that
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: something that was said, it was, I'm going to paraphrase it,
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: but something along that was with that conversation with Philip
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: was just say it, just say it. And it's hard
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: to say it. Just by saying this, We're not saying
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: it's easy. It's not easy. Let's just get that out
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: of the way. It's easier said than done. It's not
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: easier said than done.
• 33:48
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: Whichever direction you want to go. But it is one
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: of those things where we all know we should. It
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: sounds easy. Baseball sounds easy. The guy throws the ball,
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: you hit it. Okay, well, it's harder to hit a
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: 90-pound fastball. It's much easier to say it. But at
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: the same time, what are we doing? We're so– and
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: I say we, me included– this, the human idea, this
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: like survival instinct, we're just trying to protect ourselves. And
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: if we say something wrong and how we really feel,
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: how are they going to respond? Are they going to
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: respond hostile? Are they going to reject me? And I'm
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: going to be more sad that all these what ifs
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: are just one massive, great big wall preventing us to
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: freedom the other side. And I think there is a
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: freedom to that. It's just saying it. And yeah, it
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: might hurt if we don't get the response we get.
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: And that's what we're fearing. But once that's done, it's like,
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: There is a lot of relief for the pressure just
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: to have said it. It is something that is scary,
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: but I think at the end of the day, like
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: it's fine. You know what I mean? It's like, it's
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: truly fine. There's things I haven't said. So I'm, I
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: tell you that a baseball seems easy to do, but
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: it's not easy to implement. I'm living it. Like there's
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: things I haven't said, but I'm aware of it. It's like,
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: how do we cross that threshold? Because once we do
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: say things. I have you just think of one moment
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: where you've said, have you ever said anything, Victor, where
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: you told somebody you feel, and regardless of the outcome,
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: you still felt like this weight off your shoulder, even
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: if it wasn't a great outcome that you wanted, you
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: know what I mean?
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. Forgiveness is probably the hardest thing for most people
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: to offer, but offering forgiveness is not necessarily for the forgiven,
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: but for the forgiver themselves, because that takes that light
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: off of you, that weight off of you rather. Yeah.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: You know, I mean, I've, I've had, um, a woman
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: named Scarlett on the show, she lost her child at
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: the Sandy hook shooting. And, you know, if we were
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: just to curate a nightmare of a situation, I don't
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: know how you do it more than that experience. And
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: she was, she, again, I, it's just, I'm pulling back
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: from old memory from the conversation. So if I'm quoting
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: anything wrong, I forgive me, but she essentially forgave the
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: other side of it, forgave the shooter, or at least
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: had more grace towards it. And it was an, for
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: someone in that position to offer forgiveness, it really makes
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: you question our own decisions when it comes to forgiving people.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: And I, I have a lot, I, I don't know.
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: I can be a sucker. Sometimes I'm like, I think
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: I'm easy to forgive. And if I get burned again,
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: then I, then, then I'm done. But at the same time,
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: I don't know. We're just, we're living this life by
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: such rules that I don't, I don't know if they
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: make sense. I just think we're protecting ourselves as we
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: should in many times. But I don't know. I think
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: we carry these burdens. We carry this baggage that I'm
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: not sure we need to. Yeah.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: There's an old expression. I don't know who said it.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: But the expression was hatred or carrying hatred is like
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: taking poison and expecting the other person to die.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: And that's the essence of forgiveness. It's for the forgiver,
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: not necessarily for the forgiver.
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: I don't know what it is. I, you know, I'm not,
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: I don't hold a lot of grudges, um, uh, for
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: better or for worse. I don't know. Maybe that's like, again,
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: maybe that's causing me to get burnt more because I'm
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: too forgiving, but it just seems like I'm just trying
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: to choose where I'm putting my energy and my focus.
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: And I, I've learned as I've gotten older, we have
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: way more control than we think. We think the external
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: world is controlling our focus. They're trying like the external
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: world is trying and doing a pretty damn good job
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: at controlling our focus. but once we realize, uh, no,
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: that like I have full control of that and it's
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: not always just a light switch. It's a practice from being, uh,
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: you know, drugged with dopamine and the attention that we're
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: being sold to constantly. But once we break from that matrix,
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: if you will, and discipline ourselves and do it every day, like,
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: like going to the gym, we can control, we can
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: control so much. We control, can't control a lot, but
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: there are things we can control. And that's, what's going
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: on in our heads and our minds and our hearts. And, um,
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: I think with practice and time, there is freedom to that.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: Please tell us about your mother's near-death experience, how you
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: responded to it, and the messages that you shared.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we need a whole other podcast for that story.
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: But if you want to listen to it, my mom
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: came on to share that experience. I don't remember the
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: episode number, but just look up Mom David Dead Talks
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: or something. I don't know. I'm terrible at marketing my
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: own show. But nevertheless, she went into cardiac arrest in 2023.
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: you know, 2023 and her heart stopped for what we
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: think was at least seven to 10 minutes. Fortunately, she
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: made it to the hospital, which, you know, when I
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: was in, I just landed in London, when I turned
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: my phone on, I got the news. So I had
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: to fly all the way back to Jersey. And along
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: that time, I remember like, I stopped myself and I
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: went down to rabbit hole, looking up stats and like
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: the percentages of people that even make it to the
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: hospital after cardiac arrest is extremely low. let alone the
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: people that have cardiac arrest that survive. So she made
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: it to the hospital. I finally make it back. She
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: was on a breathing tube, didn't know what was going
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: on or if she was going to make it out.
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: Spoiler alert, she's fine now, but after like 36 hours
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: or so in the ICU or however long it was,
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: she kind of finally got the breathing tube out. She
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: was clearly, you know, drugged up for whatever they had
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: to give her. And she came back thinking her father
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: was still alive. I'm jumbling and condensing this story, but
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: she came back thinking her mom was still alive. And
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: then a couple of days later, when it finally came up,
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: she thought my dad was still alive. And I think
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: once she first came out saying that, where's John, her
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: her father or grandpa died a year before i was
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: born having these conversations in my head without jumping to
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: conclusions or bringing it up on the spot i look
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: at jackal and my sister i'm like i think she
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: had an experience like she i think she's between two
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: worlds right now yeah she's drugged up of course acknowledging
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: that but also i think she was floating between two
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: worlds between it's like maybe she had an experience and
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: it comes out much later a couple weeks after uh
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: she remembers just Being in this place, she's like, I
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: wasn't a body. She didn't bring up religion. She didn't
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: bring up anything. She's like, I was just floating in
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: this space. Giddy, kind of like checking it out. She's like,
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: wasn't thinking about us. She was like happy and curious.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: And she felt she saw her dad, her mom, her brother,
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: and my dad. And she's like, they weren't bodies. I just,
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: she kind of explained it as a kind of light
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: or orbs. I don't know how she did it, but
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: she's like, there weren't faces. I just, I knew who
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: each one of them was. It was just a knowing thing.
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: And they kept following me around. And I was like,
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: my dad, like, leave me alone. I'll be back. But like,
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: let me, let me go right now. And then the
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: message she got from my dad was something along the
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: lines of, you're not supposed to be here. You got
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: to go back. And she went back and, you know,
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: she came back from this experience, not even defining what
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: it was, but it was so real. She doesn't know
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: what was what. She doesn't say this was God or
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: that was angels. She's like, I was just somewhere else.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: And it was, it seemed like everything was okay. And
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: you know, when, from all these people that I've spoken
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: to from near death experiences, coming back from that place
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: to coming here, I try to put myself there like, ah,
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: it sounds like it sucks coming from a place like
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: that where there's vast different experiences that people can allude to.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: But a lot of them seem to, when they get
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: to a certain place, so it seems like a lot
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: of love. And this is crazy frequency that we can't
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: even comprehend. If you think you have the most loving
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: experience here, multiply that by a thousand. I think that's
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: what it is. So to come back from that to
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: this place, which is so beautiful and so amazing. And
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: there's incredible things like me talking to you and sharing this,
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: but it's tough. And so I just wonder what that's
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: like coming from that place to here. That's gotta be
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: an adjustment. And I'm blessed to still have my mom today.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: And she's, she made it back with no explanation as
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: to what happened to her with her heart. And, um,
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: it was an interesting experience having experienced it firsthand with
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: someone in my life after talking to these people for
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: so many times and just hearing it secondarily. Hmm.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: My guest, David Perugio, his book, You're Not Dead Yet,
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: How Grief and Loss Can Teach You to Live. We'll
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: be back with more after these words on the OM
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: Times Radio Network.
• 41:56
  Speaker 4: Humanity Healing International is a small nonprofit with a big dream.
• 42:01
  Speaker 4: Since 2007, HHI has been working tirelessly to bring help
• 42:05
  Speaker 4: to communities with little or no hope. Our projects are
• 42:09
  Speaker 4: not broad mandates, nor are they overnight solutions. but they
• 42:14
  Speaker 4: bring the reassurance that no one is alone and that
• 42:17
  Speaker 4: someone cares. To learn more, please visit humanityhealing.org. Humanity healing
• 42:23
  Speaker 4: is where your heart is.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: Imagine yourself being transported to India to the banks of
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: the Ganga and an ashram in Rishikesh. Visualize that you
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: are welcomed to satsang with an American sannyasi who shares
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: the wisdom of her gurus. Your visualization has manifested. Join
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: Satvi Bhagawati Saraswati for Inspiration and Transformation every Thursday at
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: 11 a.m. Eastern on OM Times Radio.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: So I'm a cat, and I just moved in with
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: this new human. And she's got this little toy she's
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: always playing with. All day long. Tap, tap, tap, tap.
• 43:04
  Speaker 5: Bloop, bloop.
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: She can't put it down. There it is. Oh, and
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: get this. She even talks to it. Last week, she
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: asked it for Chinese. And guess what? Egg rolls showed up.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: Like magic. Humans have cool toys. A person is the
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: best thing to happen to a shelter pet. Be that person. Adopt.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: Brought to you by the Ad Council and the ShelterPetProject.org. Hi,
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: this is Bill Maher.
• 43:27
  Speaker 5: I can find humor in almost anything, but one thing
• 43:29
  Speaker 5: I never laugh about is cruelty to animals. If you
• 43:32
  Speaker 5: don't get the joke either, write People for the Ethical
• 43:35
  Speaker 5: Treatment of Animals, 501 Front Street, Norfolk, Virginia, 23510.
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: Back on Destination Unlimited, my guest this week, David Ferugio.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: His book, You're Not Dead Yet, How Grief and Loss
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: Can Teach You to Live.
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: How you doing?
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I stopped here once.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: I felt the gap was like it wasn't supposed to
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: say hi or something. No, no, no, no.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: There's going to be an edit. I'm sorry.
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: I just.
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: You're good, you're good.
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: I just lost my place on my page here. Here
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: we go. David, you share that you have not let
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: your dad's death define your life and that you have
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: defined it yourself. How did you do this?
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: It's kind of ironic. At the same time, I might
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: say that, but I'm like, okay, I have a podcast
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: based on my losing my dad. So maybe I haven't.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: But I think it just means... you know, my mom
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: said something a long time ago when I was old
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: enough to have like the first conversation about this stuff
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: as a man. And she, she was just worried that
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: she didn't want it to F us up. And I
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: think it was inevitable that was going to shape us.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: I think any experience of loss or almost any experience
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: in life, whether we like it or not, it shapes
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: us in some way. And, you know, I think by
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: letting it define you, which is hard, which, you know,
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: it's going to shape us, but I think that's a
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: different thing. It's like, we can, you ever see ghosts
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: with Demi Moore and Patrick Swayze, you know, the scene
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: where they're molding the pottery and whatnot. I feel like that,
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: like that pottery mold is it like that, that pot
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: that we're molding. That's the experience. That's the trauma. That's
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: my nine 11. That's my losing my dad and my
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: friends and people I've lost along the way that structure exists.
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: Like I didn't choose to be in the shop, but
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: I have my hands and I can mold it into
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: the shape that I want. And that's how I feel like,
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: and maybe I didn't want to make a pot, Maybe
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: I didn't want to make this right now, but I'm
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: in the booth right now with the pedals, and I'm
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: going to shape it the way I want. And over time,
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: after a lot of rotations and a lot of spins
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: and a long time doing it, and maybe it falls
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: over and I mess it up, and at some point
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: I'm going to have some kind of pot. And so
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: it's a lifelong journey, but I think that's what it is.
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: I'm not just shutting it down and pretending it doesn't exist.
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to mold it myself. through the daily actions
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: and the choices that I make. And those choices include
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: having no idea what I'm doing for a very long
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: time and still feeling that way, having bad days and
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: being pissed off and being irritable and being ugly and
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: not making the right decision. But along that way, you
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: can still mold and still curate this life that we have.
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: I just truly believe we have way more control than
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: we think. I do think we have no control in
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: many ways, but focusing on the things we can control
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: with the serenity prayer, if you will. And I just
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: didn't want to let it create me. I let it
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: shape me. I can let it inspire me. And it's
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: a part of me. And I'm moving with that grief constantly,
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: even 25 years later. But we have more power than
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: we think in writing our own storyline.
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. How has death helped you explore your tug of
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: war among faith, doubt, and curiosity?
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: I don't know. It's just so unknown. But at the
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: same time, even though I've said for so long, nobody knows,
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: we'll find out. The more conversations I have, of course,
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: I have my ears up of who's telling me what,
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: but I'm like, maybe some people do know. After all
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: this time, maybe some people have a little bit of
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: an idea that have a glimpse into the other side.
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying they have the full picture, but I
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: think some people have a glimpse. But it's just so fascinating.
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: And even though I talk about it all the time,
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: it's not my entire existence. I'm not like, going to
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: my softball game on Thursday nights and thinking about the afterlife.
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: But with that contemplation, I just think it's fun. And
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: it's curious because the questioning of what comes after reflects
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: on this life that we're living now, because I believe
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: it's all intertwined. There's two sides of the same coin.
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: I think there's one frequency that we live on and
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: the next, whatever happens next time, there's just another radio
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: dial turnover among us and around us. So therefore what
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: happens over there is happening over here kind of thing.
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: And I, this is all theory and thoughts and beliefs,
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: but And it's part of the grief process. Even if
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: you don't believe in anything, that's a belief and that's
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: part of the grief process too. Maybe it helps you,
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: maybe it doesn't. But I think that what happens next
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: is what I found is a big part of how
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: people can grieve and what do you believe happens. And
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: it doesn't have to be the main part of it,
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: but I think it's fun to explore. I think all
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: these conversations and contemplation of death have only shaped my
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: life and allowed me to be More present in my
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: life today and the same modalities that applies to grief
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: have applied to my everyday life and just hopefully being
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: a better human.
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. I lost my mom in 2020 and I had
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: lost my dad when I was 15 and my mother
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: really shaped my life in many ways. She was my
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: source of knowledge of love and caring for others and
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: so on. And I was at her bedside as she
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: was transitioning. And I started having this vision of circles
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: and rings, circles and rings. And I've been bringing forth
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: poetry since I was a kid. And this poem came
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: through me called Circles and Rings. And may I share
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: that with you?
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: Please, please.
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: The path of great beauty in so many things, from
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: atoms to galaxies, circles and rings. Natural wisdom that dwells
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: there within, from naught to 360, that magical spin. We
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: circle each other in gravity's dance, as Gaia circles Sol,
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: the solar romance, as Luna circles us in life-giving motion,
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: drawing the tides and inner emotion. And the age of
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: the oak is found in its rings, as in woman
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: and man and all living things. And when the rings
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: stop and life comes to an end, we'll all circle
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: back and dance once again.
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: That's beautiful. I've never heard that.
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: Thank you. Yeah, that came through me. What does that
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: mean to you? what it meant to me is that
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: my mother was giving me the message that life never
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: ends really, that we all come back and we all
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: may travel together again in the next lifetime or other lifetimes.
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: And that the, and that the understanding that that love
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: is eternal is the most important thing.
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: Right. At the same time, you know, it's, it's beautiful,
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: it's comforting. And I think it does, it helps me
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: with all of this. And at the same time, they're,
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: human challenge of it all is okay it's a different
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: relationship now because now the hard part and the grieving
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: part is that physical relationship you know what i mean
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: it's that same vehicle of communication of just calling or
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: talking to someone we don't have that anymore it's a
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: material relationship that we're missing that you know regardless of
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: what we believe it's it's always a challenge.
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: But i see the memory of my mother as a
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: blessing and i constantly have her there and there are
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: times when i have decisions to make that are difficult
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: decisions And all of a sudden I have the sensation
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: of a hand patting the hair on the top of
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: my head. And I know it's my mother coming back
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: and saying, it's going to be okay.
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: That's beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. That's great.
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: Thank you. You share that you've learned to notice the
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: small moments in life. What does that awareness bring you?
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: Presence. It sucks me back out of my own head.
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: You know, how many times are we just sitting there
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: and even having a conversation like this and I'm thinking about,
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: I have a two o'clock appointment today. I got to
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: be there. And if I'm not, you know, like the
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: little moments in life is just a small target. You
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: know what I mean? It's like when you're throwing a
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: dart at the dartboard, it's like people like, I'm just
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: going to hit the board. Like, no aim for same small,
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: aim small and you, and you miss small. And I
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: feel like when I'm focused on the little things, it
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: just brings me back to the, the present moment. And
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: it brings me right here. And I think the little
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: moments tend to be the most gratifying moments. And for me,
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: Those are always it. It's not me getting that job.
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: It's not me getting a certain amount of followers on
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: my podcast. I'm going to look back on it like,
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: that was awesome when I got a million on Facebook.
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: He's like, no, I'm not going to. I'm going to
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: be thinking back at the memory of me leaving my
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: sister's friend's house and looking at my nephews playing basketball,
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: literally having the thought, wow, they're going to be older
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: at some point. I'm going to soak this moment in.
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: That's the moment I literally think of. That's why I
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: just randomly thought of it now. There's those little moments
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: of just watching my nephews play basketball and And they're
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: seeing their silhouette at 7 p.m. on a Sunday night
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: in Jersey. It's like something about those moments just are
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: etched in time and slow time down. And I just
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: think that's what we're going to remember. And once you
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: do focus on those small moments, I think it just
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: brings you back to the present. And we're constantly chasing
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: the future that doesn't exist. And we're constantly dwelling in
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: the past that affects our present now. But this total
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: sweet spot is right now. And for me, the small
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: moments bring me back to right now.
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. Absolutely. You've learned to view death and life as
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: the same. How do you deal with that dichotomy today?
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: Slight anxiety and maybe the occasional panic attack. I don't
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: know if I deal with it or manage it or
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: contemplate it. Sometimes I go too far. I'm like, okay,
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: slow it down. Even as much as I talk about it,
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: it's just crazy. When you think about it, everyone's just–
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: thinks they can explain gravity because they can Wikipedia it.
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: And yeah, we know, but it's like, we don't know anything.
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: We don't know anything. We know so much, but I
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: realized the more I've learned, I've learned so much in
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: my life and reciprocally, I've know nothing. I got the,
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: the more I know, the less I know at the
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: same time. And so this, this idea of just life
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: and death and death and life, I just really believe
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: they're just, it's a veil. Like, I mean, if you're
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: going from one to the next, there's only one door,
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: I think. So it's just, they're touching. It's like two fingertips.
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: It's like going from our atmosphere to space. And I
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: just think it's just a very thin veil, which is
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: why we hear so many stories of signs and messages
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: like you've gotten and messages that I've shared. Like, I
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: just think it's just, it's one tiny little veil just
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: next to each other, like heads and tails on a coin.
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: And I think the lessons that we pull from life
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: help us next. And I think contemplating death and what
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: we get from the death experience helps us here today.
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: And I just think it's a ping pong game back
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: and forth, whether we have concrete answers that could be
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: proven in the court of law of what happens.
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: What would you like your readers to take away from
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: you're not dead yet?
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: Man, perspective. I look at it like a recipe. I
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: can give you my recipe in this book, but I
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: want you to toy around with the ingredients. I just
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: want you to cook. I want you to make the
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: ingredients your own. And, you know, that's why specifically I
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: use that grief recipe analogy. I guess someone can give
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: me a recipe for like, you know, this is the
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: best recipe. How to make this lasagna. I can make it.
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: It can be delicious. And you know, this recipe works
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: for me. Well, I'm going to take a little salt out.
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: I'm going to add a little meat. I'm going to
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: make a vegetable and just like treat it like a recipe.
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: We can make it your own. I think that's grief.
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: Like the ingredients are to you. And I hope that
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: through my story, through my perspectives, but I, that you
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: can curate your own recipe and, I'm not promising answers.
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: I'm not telling you, it's not necessarily an ABC book
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: on how to do this. I made it easy read
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: by sharing not only my story, but stories I've had
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: from people on the show to make it more universal
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: because my story is not going to be apples to apples,
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: but maybe some things will and things that you agree
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: with and don't agree with, maybe that'll get you thinking.
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: And just, I hope at the end of the day,
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: it makes people feel seen. And regardless of where you
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: are in your journey, take it with a grain of salt.
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: And I hope you realize that you're not dead yet either.
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: And there's still life to live.
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: The Wisdom Through Life Experience of my guest, David Ferugio.
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: His book is entitled, You're Not Dead Yet, How Grief
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: and Loss Can Teach You to Live. David, one more time,
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: please share with our listeners where they can get your
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: book and listen to your podcast.
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you can get You're Not Dead Yet, How Grief
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: and Loss Can Teach You to Live on most bookstores, Amazon,
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: Barnes and Nobles. Amazon's probably the easiest. Or go to
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: my website, deadtalks.net. And I hope you give it a
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: look up. And maybe if it's in the show notes
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: for you, But check out Dead Talks Podcast as well.
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: That's free if you don't want to pay $ 28 for
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: a hardcover book from my ugly mug. But the book's
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: gotten good feedback, and I'm proud of it. So it's
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: maybe for you or someone you know, but it's a
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: great exploration.
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: David, thank you so much for joining us and sharing
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: your experience and your wisdom.
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: And thank you for joining us on Destination Unlimited. I'm Victor,
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: the voice, Furman. Have a wonderful week.
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: Thank you.