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Teaching Through Personal Pain with Durran Cage · Auto Collabs

• 0:00
  I was shocked the first time I had ever met Duran Cage, shocked for a couple of reasons. [laughs] I already know what one's gonna be. [upbeat music] This is Auto Collabs.
• 0:17
  [laughs] The first one, because- You can't say it's 'cause he was taller than you. [laughs] That doesn't work in your situation. I know the guy's tall- No, but it was-... but, like, aren't you shocked by everybody?
• 0:26
  You're like, "[gasps] Wow" Well, no, because it was that I needed binoculars to see his face. [laughs] Like, tall is one thing. Ugh.
• 0:35
  To be insanely tall, like- Stratospheric is a total different one [laughs] Like, if he was- He's, like, he's trying to high-five him, jumping. [laughs] Dude, I was, like- And-... reaching his belt buckle.
• 0:46
  At one time, I think I got, like, stuck on his belt buckle- [laughs] It's, it's-... and he just, like, dragged me around the- It's a special kind of height. It's a special kind of height Yeah, special.
• 0:53
  Like, if they cast Duran Cage to play Hercules, which he has the physique to do, he would not have to climb Mount Olympus, he would just have to go on his tippy-toes and his, he would see the mount, top of Mount Olympus.
• 1:07
  He is so tall. Wiggle- Yeah. Wiggle his little, yeah, his chin up- [laughs]... and he's there, right?
• 1:10
  He's got- And the second thing that was shocking to me was how even, like, y- you know, usually you see people online and you're like, "What a strapling, good-looking brute" Yeah...
• 1:22
  and then you meet that person in real life and you're like- "Oh"... "Cool, so you took your profile photo 18 years ago. Got it" That was your high school glamour shot. Check. [laughs] That was your high school...
• 1:30
  But he is strikingly beautiful in real life- Ooh, that's a great-... and that shocks me and makes me annoyed all in the same bundle. I do, every time I see him- It's, uh, absolutely fair...
• 1:38
  I call him the Denzel of the automotive industry.
• 1:40
  He, did you know that when they tested, this is a random comment that does tie back, when they tested faces in front of babies to see which ones made them smile, Denzel Washington was number one naturally. Really?
• 1:56
  So- Absolutely. Yeah. And it's, it has to do with symmetry. I get it. All right. Okay. They say it has to do with sy- Okay. [laughs] No, but I bet Duran Cage- All right. Okay... has the same effect, honestly. Mm-hmm.
• 2:06
  And then you pair him with his rockstar wife, Paige Cage, and when they walk into a room, you feel like Hollywood just showed up. Seriously. And they do, they walk in like that. It's like a little bit of swagger, right?
• 2:19
  And- A little bit late. A little bit late. Just a little late. Fashionably, it's perfect- A lot of kindness... fashionable. A lot of kindness. Oh, man. A lot of smiles. Just a lot of kindness. And he carries that.
• 2:27
  You know, I've had the, I've had the pleasure of getting to know him, like, in the way that he works with dealers a little bit, and he carries that right in his passion for people, the way he cares about stores, the way he gets, like, emotionally and mentally invested.
• 2:39
  He's like, "No, I wanna see them succeed so bad," right? Bad. Bad. And, and so he carries that in. Well, we hope that you enjoy our conversation with Duran Cage.
• 2:49
  [upbeat music] There are few people in automotive that can be as dynamic as this man.
• 3:05
  Duran Cage, thank you so much- You forgot handsome... uh, for joining us. You forgot handsome. [laughs] Dynamic, handsome, like, the man that can look sly- [laughs]... witho- with glasses, without glasses.
• 3:16
  He's got his No Crisis Can Win shirt on today. He's pulling the brand. It's unbelievable. This guy, I'm telling you, you are everywhere, and I'm so glad that you've joined us, uh, on Auto Collabs today, man.
• 3:28
  Man, that's the first time I've been called dynamic. Whoo. So I'm, I'm loving that. We're gonna call that dynamic Duran or Duran dynamic. Update the website, man. Update it. Man, that's- Dynamic... dynamic.
• 3:38
  That's a big, that's a big word right there. You are. I, I- He can alliterate... I second that. I second that. [laughs] It's dynamic. [laughs] Man, I'll take that.
• 3:45
  So thank you, uh, Kyle, and, and thank you, Paul, both for, for having me on and for everything that you guys have done in the industry.
• 3:52
  It's refreshing, it's cool, and I'm just thankful to be a part of it and, and I get to learn from two of the greatest. Awesome. Awesome. The greatest. All right. So I get the first question.
• 4:01
  I get the first punch, all right? [laughs] So, so
• 4:05
  Duran, you, you've been consulting now for some time, and you work with dealerships in the BDC and all that type of stuff, but you've got a long history on the retail side of the business actually.
• 4:16
  Walk us back into kind of those early years in automotive and, and what, like, how you saw them preparing you for what you're doing right now. Yeah. So in the early days of automotive, it's almost three phases.
• 4:31
  First phase was, like, 2002, selling cars as a green pea. You know, a lot of us, where you just kind of go out there, you make a, make a friend and you make a what? A sale, right? That's what you learn.
• 4:42
  Then it gets to, like, 2008. Six years later and I'm back on the retail, and then now it's more the digital aspect. So now it's, it's dealing with the internet leads.
• 4:52
  You know, people are still kind of scared, trying to figure out how to work that thing out, but you've got 2008 to 2016 where I'm in retail and, and there's so much digital transformation that's happening during that time.
• 5:04
  You know, we're starting to see CRMs being used more, video being used more, and even back then, I talk about this a lot, even digital retailing is already starting to become a thing back in 2007.
• 5:16
  It's just now, of course, we know with the narrative over the last few years. But the biggest thing that I've seen is just speed. You know, speed of learning how to use the innovations that we're getting.
• 5:27
  So it's like we can all sell cars, but there's so much innovation in tech that's there, and I posted about this recently.
• 5:32
  But just making sure that we're aligning with the tech and the innovations and using it to the best of not just the customer experience, but also for the employee experience.
• 5:42
  But that's what I've seen over the last, uh, several years, and several, several years in retail. Okay, so take me back, like, '08, '09, which is the recession.
• 5:51
  You know, you got Cash for Clunkers, and I remem- that's when I came in the business, right? So the store that I was at, and I don't know how your experience was. [laughs] Crazy time to come into the business.
• 6:00
  It was nuts. [laughs] Literally the la- I came into the business the last week of Cash for Clunkers. That's not a joke, right? Yeah.
• 6:05
  It was like there were cars literally stacked on stacked in the back of the lot, I feel like. It was unbelievable.
• 6:11
  But-Take us back to that because I remember at my store, and at least the stores that I knew back then in the area that I was at, you would have, like, one, maybe two people that, like, understood that even the website existed still at that point, right?
• 6:28
  I mean, I know that we're already in smartphones, but in automotive it's like, "Yep, there's a website," and we get people that click on things, send us information, then we call them type thing.
• 6:37
  Was that kinda your experience leading in, or were you at a little bit more of a progressive place?
• 6:42
  Like, what did that first interaction from, you know, like, what is, what was the learning matrix that you had to go through or your dealership had to go through at that point in this, like, new internet, you know, e- e-commerce e- ecosystem?
• 6:55
  Oh, yeah. No, I, I can remember, like, yesterday because [clears throat] the dealership I was at, we had a projector. So literally I hooked up the laptop, and I was showing them... Well, and what was that website?
• 7:05
  Was it, like, Fast... I'm trying to remember what it was. Something.gov, whatever, that kept up with the fuel efficiency. Oh- And it was a-... my gosh, yes... where you could put in the competitive models.
• 7:14
  Remember you could put in- Yes... the make and compare it? [laughs] Oh, my gosh.
• 7:17
  And so the best way was we would just get the whole team in there, and I would just pull it up on the computer, and we would just show them everything. Like, "Here's where the site is. Here's how we're gonna market."
• 7:27
  We printed off all the materials as well, so we made sure to make it... We'd pretty much merchandise our store to match what that, what that message was.
• 7:36
  And then the, one of the best things we did is we bought, it was cashforclunkers.org, or it was dot something. So this is back when most people wouldn't invest in.coms though. No, you didn't.
• 7:46
  Yeah, and so we put billboards all over West Tennessee. Oh, man. And we built a mi- yeah, built, we built a micro site, and then we had everybody just going to cashforclunkers.org.
• 7:56
  It was, like, cashforclunkerstn.org or something. But we put billboards everywhere. It came into me and my team, and we tore it up. Let's go. [laughs] That's m- that's ama- like, that's such... [clapping] You know what?
• 8:08
  You know what, like, the, the, the- [laughs] One of the greatest art, like, one of the greatest art, arti- arti- artist- artistic things that happens in automotive or in business is people going, like, "There's a thing that's happening.
• 8:22
  I'm gonna buy the URL-" [laughs] "... that people are gonna be like, 'Oh, that's where I go to find information.'" [laughs] So for you to so early on as a store- Oh...
• 8:31
  go, "Oh, yeah, we're gonna capitalize the heck out of this. This is gonna be perfect," that's unbelievable. So was it, like, an education site, or did you, did you just, like, create a micro site of, of vehicles?
• 8:43
  What was, like, the intention around that? Yeah, no, it was just an education si- s- site. So it just, like, broke down exactly, "Hey, here's what's going on. Here's how this works. This is who we're affiliated with."
• 8:54
  So we had our, you know, this, our, "You can go to get more information at this dealership, or fill out this information below, and one of our team members will be in touch [laughs] with you."
• 9:02
  So more informational, educational. There wasn't anything really about inventory. So you couldn't search inventory, buy cars on there. It was 100% around their car and the fuel economy and how to get that going. Wow.
• 9:14
  Do you see any dealers doing that today? No. [laughs] Are you seeing dealers, like, create education lanes around- I was, like, "Dude's so ahead of its time. It's unbelievable"...
• 9:22
  it's like, it's like, you know, buy EVT, @tn.com. Like, someone go buy that thing right now if you're in Tennessee. Yep.
• 9:29
  And I'm like, I'm mad at myself as a marketer for not creating education micro sites that drive to our affiliate partner, the dealership over here. Yep. Are you seeing that at all? No, not much.
• 9:43
  And, you know, that's how... 'Cause you remember a while back, that's how third-party lead providers, not the, the inventory ones, but how they used to sell us leads. And I know there's still some companies that do that.
• 9:52
  Not saying that it's wrong if you're, if you're buying from that.
• 9:55
  But that's really all those sites are, is they're sites that have lots of information, lots of SEO content on them, and then they draw customers there, and then they sell that back to the dealership.
• 10:05
  And I've always said, "Dealers, why don't you have your own?" Like, why not have your own information sites in certain markets that you work with and filter it that way back into your dealership- We-...
• 10:15
  that's just really around giving them research. We literally had this conversation this morning because of the same frustration. We've been, we've been saying this for, I don't know, the better part of a year now.
• 10:25
  Like- Yeah... just be the smartest person on EVs in your community. You have the opportunity. The field is wide open. I don't care if you're a single point.
• 10:32
  How, doesn't matter how big you are physically, you can be the biggest authority on EVs in your region, in your neighborhood, even in the country these days if you do a good enough job. And- That's right...
• 10:42
  I just don't see it yet. But we might have to do it. I don't know. That's unbelievable. [laughs] You gotta do something. [laughs] Now I'm like- You gotta do something... I'm done with the podcast- We gotta go...
• 10:49
  'cause I got, like, 18 marketing... Uh, we gotta go. [laughs] We gotta call some people. Gotta put some education sites up, right? [laughs] Yeah.
• 10:55
  All right, so, so fast-forward just a little bit because then you, you kinda came through, uh, the, the industry partner matrix and went through that.
• 11:04
  And I wanna fast-forward, uh, kind of the learning there to what you're doing now, which is, which is supporting and educating dealers on, um, the, primarily their business development practices but also some level of marketing.
• 11:17
  Um, talk about maybe, like, the trends you're seeing in, uh, customer engagement specifically. Like, how customers and, and dealerships are communicating and engaging with each other in this, like, sales process.
• 11:30
  Yeah, so the, the biggest thing that I've seen recently that I'm pushing for, and people that, that you've seen my content on social media, is really just empowering your employees more to be able to create that smooth experience for the customers because there's...
• 11:44
  I feel like there's so many things that we want customers to do online, but we're not equipping our people to be able to do that.
• 11:51
  And so right now, it's, it's really just teaching dealers and GMs, the leaders, to, like, break down these walls and stop calling BDCs a BDC 'cause it's so much more than that.
• 12:02
  These are, these are professionals that are in these departments now that need to be empowered to be able, when, when Paul says, like, "Hey, man," like, "what would really be the difference between a lease and finance?"
• 12:12
  They all need to be equipped to have that conversation. And if they can't, they need to be equipped to have somebody that's right there that's a specialist in that area.
• 12:21
  That's what I feel like both, not just the customers, but both customers and employees want, is the most frictionless experience that they can get by making sure if there's any walls-...
• 12:32
  that are, that are holding us in our process when somebody's trying to do something, whether it be for sales or service, we need to always be evaluating that.
• 12:40
  And then if, when there's a hiccup, like, you know, like, oh, a person wants to get pre-approved, they live two hours away, they're- and it's taking them six hours.
• 12:49
  There needs to be, okay, that's a hiccup, so then we need to empower our people and put the right people in prace- place to make sure that we create the smoothest experience.
• 12:57
  So that's what I'm seeing a lot, is really just growing those leaders that are in that internet department to be able to do more or to bring in more leaders outside of that internet department to work cohesively.
• 13:08
  Like, work with them as an online experience team rather than a separated silo, but make sure we're bringing everybody together.
• 13:15
  I don't know if this is gonna be a redundant answer, but, um, I'm always fascinated to talk to trainers because they get to experience a lot of different scenarios, and no two dealers do it the same way, right?
• 13:27
  Nor, nor really should they, because every dynamic is different. Even if you sell the same make, you're still in a different market, um, with different people, right? And no two leadership teams are the same.
• 13:37
  So you get to see a lot from a broad spectrum of dealerships.
• 13:42
  Can you distill down, like, maybe, like, the top one to three mistakes that you see commonly across the board when it comes to, you know, when it comes to BDC or when it come... A- actually not even limiting it to that.
• 13:55
  What are the, the top one to three things you see, you know, dealers tripping up on, in your experience? Yes. [laughs] Great question. Number one, communication. N- hands down, communication- Okay...
• 14:06
  is the n- Unpack that a minute, right? Because, like- Yeah. That, that, that's a lot... you can, you can say, "Well, we could fix this whole thing if we just communicated better." Yeah. Right?
• 14:12
  Like- So- You can always say that. [laughs] But, but, like- Yeah... communication breakdown, what specifically... Like, what are the breakdowns that you see are, like, the most potent? Yeah.
• 14:20
  So a communication breakdown could be something as simple as, as inventory, right? So something as simple as somebody wants to put a deposit or reserve a certain car, custom order.
• 14:32
  Communication is making sure that you're being proactive with communication with your teams and communicating to them which vehicles are even eligible to do custom orders or even do that process, or which ones right now we have to handle a separate way.
• 14:46
  But when a, when somebody that gets that interaction has no idea because nobody communicated to them upfront about, "Hey, it's important to know that this is happening," then they talk to a customer, waste the customer's time- Oh, set up for disaster...
• 15:00
  on something that they're trying to do, and then now they gotta go back to the customer and communicate to them, "I'm so sorry." Yeah. So it's, it's little things. It's gonna be different communication points.
• 15:09
  It could be communication in terms of breaking down what an actual online process should look like. Be...
• 15:16
  It sounds stupid, but really a lot of dealers, sometimes we don't communicate that clearly in terms of what exactly we're looking for, right? Number two- Like, to your own people. Like, to your own people, right?
• 15:26
  Saying like, "Hey, this is our strategy. This is how we want our online process to look like," right? Right. Like, they don't start there. Correct. They just, like, kind of lump a bunch of things into one.
• 15:37
  Like, "Okay, it's gonna be something like this." Is that what you're saying? Yep. Yes. It's not specific. It's almost... It needs to be a playbook. Like, there should be no questions.
• 15:46
  I say this a lot, and it, sometimes it could be taken offensive, but everything needs to be broken down to a third-grade level. Mm-hmm. You know? To where everybody, my son, my, my...
• 15:55
  I could bring in Preston James and he would understand it and be like, "Yep, I got it." Mm. To me, it, it is not to offend people, but it needs to be that simple.
• 16:04
  Uh, the next thing I would say is just accountability, you know? And that's praising, too. So when I say accountability, it's on both sides.
• 16:11
  But going back with communication, there needs to be clarity about what we expect, and then not just about what we expect, but what happens when we're not getting the behaviors that we're looking for.
• 16:22
  And that's the key separator between the clients I have that win and the ones that don't- Mm... is the leader is either frustrated, "Paul and Kyle, I can't get them to do anything. They're lazy."
• 16:31
  I, and, and I'm like, "Dude, don't ever say that, because they're a representation of you," you know? Ooh. [laughs] So, like, don't do that. Ooh, I bet you make some feelings- Oh, I know. They get-...
• 16:40
  get hurt right off of that. [laughs] But they know. You, as a leader, you cannot complain to me about your people. Every time I'm gonna push right back on you and punch you in the mouth.
• 16:49
  Because I'm like, "Well, did you communicate that? Have you had a one-on-one?" Oh. [laughs] "When's the last time you coached?" You see? So we only have to do three.
• 16:57
  Those are the two things, being really specific with your communication. But communication, too, again, is asking people what is it that...
• 17:05
  I just did a coaching call before this, a training, and that's the first thing I do. "Give me one thing that's keeping you from having the smoothest process possible with your customers."
• 17:14
  And I just write them down, boom, boom, boom. And then we get with leadership. "Okay, this is what should happen in this situation. This is..." That's the communication that employees and customers are looking for.
• 17:24
  And then the accountability and the praising side is just making sure that we take time to recognize those behaviors that we're really looking for to help the teams win. Sounds a lot like relationship therapy. Yes.
• 17:35
  You're more, you're more of a therapist, I'm sure you figure out, right, [laughs] when you get in there. I would say my job is 50% therapy. Another 50% is definitely execution- Oh-...
• 17:44
  because- Man, we got, we got three minutes left. I know, I know you have somewhere to be. You have clients to serve. Uh, Kyle, why don't, why don't you, uh, take the last three minutes? Well, yeah.
• 17:54
  Speaking of relationships is... And this is what I think is so wonderful about you.
• 17:59
  Like, everywhere I, everywhere you go, I see your wife with you, and then, like, you're always taking your kids places and, and doing that. And then your, you and your wife actually have, uh, a thing going.
• 18:09
  Like, she's got a thing going on with, with supporting health with people. Everywhere I, everywhere you go, I see you, like, being a purveyor of positive relationships. Like, that is the, that's the root. W- w- what...
• 18:25
  H- has that enabled you to, to be better in, like, these areas of-... process or of, you know, dialing in execution or communications.
• 18:35
  Like, what about the family relationship or the ability to create relationships in multiple different mediums enables you and, and could potentially enable other people to be better in their everyday businesses?
• 18:48
  Whoo, Kyle would go there, man. [laughs] Well, thank you for saying that, and I know we are limited- Well, that's our time [laughs]... on, on time. But I, I know, it's just like, dude.
• 18:55
  But what I'll say, it's the same way that I teach in training, it's the same way in my personal life when I'm talking to people, is a lot of stuff that I'm teaching people is through my personal pain.
• 19:04
  That's why we get mentors, right? You know, we have mentors because we wanna learn how to avoid certain pains. Like, give me the tell me what you see.
• 19:12
  And so I've been that guy that didn't prioritize my wife as much as I wanted her to, or my kids. You know, I've been that guy that never saw a basketball game. Mm. And I saw the effects of that.
• 19:22
  And so I don't want other people to go through that, because there's always a better way.
• 19:28
  It's just sometimes we don't have the information to know how to balance things out, and we think the only thing there is is to chase success.
• 19:34
  So now I do chase positivity, family, friendship, and things of that nature, because that's really what's important.
• 19:40
  At the end of the day, man, automotive is great and stuff, but at the end of the day it's all about us just connecting with one another and helping each other out. That's, that's what helps us enjoy life, right? Oh, man.
• 19:50
  I... Look, we could easily continue this conversation for a full hour, but people got places to go and people to serve and lives to do their thing, but we're excited that we get to hang out at ASOTU CON in- Yeah...
• 20:03
  person in just- Yeah... I think it's, uh, just, I mean, two weeks. Two weeks, little more? Yeah. Durran, thank you so much for giving us some of your time today.
• 20:10
  On behalf of Kyle, myself, uh, thank you for listening to Auto Collabs. Thank you for wearing No Crisis Can Win T-shirt, and we'll see you soon. Thank you, guys. Take care. [upbeat music] Y'all,
• 20:26
  he straight shots fired what he said. If you're a leader and you're complaining about your people- Oh, boy... you're doing the wrong complaining. Gosh. He was like, "No, no, no.
• 20:35
  Actually, if you're complaining about your people, that's on you" And that- [sighs] It's tough, right? That's truth, though. 'Cause, I mean, if you, if you start thinking- Truth is tough...
• 20:45
  about it, you're like, there's, there's only two routes: get your people good or get good people. That was drilled into me from w- from some of my managers and the leaders that I've been... And, and it's true.
• 20:54
  Like- Mm... if you, if you are, if you're a leader, like you can't just sit there and be like, "My people don't do anything. They can't do this. They can't do that. They better get better." Hmm. Right?
• 21:04
  He's calling it out. [laughs] Like, your... It's your responsibility at this point to either say, "It's not the right fit," or if it is the right fit, get 'em better, 'cause that's your role. And that- Mm...
• 21:14
  I think that that's a, that's a cold, hard truth that a lot of leaders at no matter what capacity, no matter what level, it's hard to swallow because y- you just get that pride level and, man, I appreciate...
• 21:25
  Like, that's, that's, that's ownership for me that I've gotta take more often. It's one of those, like, it makes me think, what makes you so special?
• 21:33
  Like, what makes you so special that you think you even know what to look for in people- He's like, "I'm, I'm seven feet tall-... to, to lead them to begin with... I'm good-looking, I..."
• 21:42
  [laughs] No, no, I'm not talking about Durran. Oh, okay.
• 21:44
  [laughs] I'm talking about the sentiment of, like, you know, it, it's al- it's all fun and games and easy to understand when we post the visual of, "Here's what leaders look like"- Right...
• 21:53
  and it's, you know, that slave driver versus, like, walking beside type of a thing. Yeah.
• 21:57
  But it's like, that's the question, to, to probably better phrase it, not to sound like I'm digging at Durran, 'cause I'm not, just feeding off of what he's saying is, like, as a leader, how do I feel about my people?
• 22:10
  That's gonna be the first indication whether or not I'm a boss manager or an actual leader. Yeah, I mean, you, you take that down, and a leader is always someone who looks inwardly first, right?
• 22:19
  Who always raises the hand to take accountability before they start to point the finger to say, "Who can I blame for this?" I mean, it's just a, it's a real simple litmus test on your reaction, right?
• 22:29
  When somebody in your organization does something wrong or does something, you know, that they shouldn't have done- Right... what's the first thing you do, right?
• 22:37
  Like, is it, "What could I have done to not have them in that position?" Or is it like, "Let's let them know just how bad they did," right? It really is a great litmus test.
• 22:47
  Well, we hope that you enjoyed that conversation with the handsomest man, especially if you're on a podcast. Michael Cirillo's the handsomest man- [laughs]... if you're on a podcast.
• 22:55
  But if you're watching, it's Durhan Cage. Thanks for spending some time with us here on Auto Collabs. On behalf of Michael Cirillo and myself and Kyle Mounts here, I messed up the order there, we'll see you next time.
• 23:05
  Sign up for our free and fun to read daily email for a free shot of relevant news in automotive, retail, media, and pop culture. You can get it now at asotu.com. That's A-S-O-T-U dot com.
• 23:18
  If you love this podcast, please leave us a review and share it with a friend. Thanks again for listening. We'll see you next time.
• 23:26
  [upbeat music] Welcome to Auto Collabs. [laughs] Are we recording? [laughs] Are we rolling yet? Not yet