Latest / All Figured Out with Andrea Barr: Figuring Out Work, Life and Parenting / 138. You're not a bad mom, you're just a people pleaser — Libby Ward

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138. You're not a bad mom, you're just a people pleaser — Libby Ward · All Figured Out with Andrea Barr: Figuring Out Work, Life and Parenting

0:00
Libby Ward, thank you for coming on the All Figured Out podcast.
0:03
Thanks for having me. This is a this is crazy.
0:06
We're both a little shocked right now.
0:08
We are in a autonomous podcast studio.
0:11
We are two Canadian women who are in Austin, TX recording a
0:16
podcast. It's very strange.
0:18
I've never been to a place like this before, but it's really
0:21
cool. It's.
0:21
Really cool. And it's this kind of small
0:24
room. It's actually genius.
0:25
So yeah, anyone looking for a side hustle?
0:29
No, I think that's it. It is such a pleasure to meet
0:33
you. We're both here at Mom to .0,
0:37
The Summit for Mother Creators. And I just decided to shoot my
0:42
shot. And I was like, I'm gonna see if
0:44
Libby would want to come on the podcast.
0:45
And you were so gracious. He said thank you, said yes, and
0:48
we made it happen. And you were a busy freaking
0:50
woman. You're on a book tour.
0:51
So I really want to thank you. This is all figured out.
1:00
I'm Andrea Barr. I'm a career coach for parents,
1:03
a mom of two, and I absolutely believe that you can continue to
1:07
grow personally and professionally while protecting
1:09
family time. We're about to figure out this
1:14
work, life and parenting stuff out together.
1:24
Oh well, thanks for having me. I mean, I wrote a book so I
1:28
might as well tell the people about it.
1:30
So here we are. You are on a two week just, I
1:33
mean these book tours sound unbelievable in all the best
1:37
ways, like unbelievably busy, unbelievably fun.
1:39
How are you? How are you managing with it all
1:42
so far? You're couple days in.
1:43
Yeah, I'm a few days in and I think I'm managing really well.
1:47
Actually, the writing process was really hard for me.
1:51
It should have taken me or had a year deadline and it actually
1:55
took me two years. We can get into that if we want
1:59
to or not get into it, but it was a long process.
2:01
And I mean, writing memoir is not for the faint of heart.
2:04
And it just was hard for me to be doing that and then feel
2:09
disconnected from my community online.
2:11
Because prior to when I started writing, I mean, my main thing
2:15
was being a content creator, making content every day and
2:18
feeling connected to moms and talking about the hard parts
2:20
that no one talks about. But then when I entered I call
2:23
it like the writing pit. Israel.
2:28
I yeah, it made me feel actually disconnected because I was just
2:32
like in my whole writing. And now that I'm actually out
2:38
there out here talking about the book and sharing my message, I
2:42
feel like I have like life in my bones again.
2:45
Like I love talking to moms and sharing stories with moms and
2:50
like helping moms and like seeing people in real life and,
2:53
and talking about the message itself.
2:55
And so I'm really enjoying it. And I mean, like, who wouldn't
2:58
enjoy being sent on a book tour? Like, so I'm just mostly
3:02
grateful. And I'm like a small town
3:04
Ontario mom. So the fact that I'm on, you
3:07
know, attend book tour stop is insane.
3:10
And so I'm just really grateful. It's so freaking cool but like
3:13
and it just makes sense. And also what's in the water?
3:16
There are so many freaking cool Canadian and Ontario.
3:19
I will call out Ontario creators who have done such badass
3:24
things. You and including so thank you.
3:26
There's some you. There's something else out on
3:29
stereo. I think it's like the
3:30
population, like we just have more people, right?
3:32
There's so much of the population of Canada is in
3:35
Ontario. So I don't think we're anything
3:37
particularly special. There's just more of us there,
3:39
so. OK, well, you're down.
3:42
Canadians are great. All Canadians are great.
3:44
It's so fun to to be with you here.
3:46
I feel, I feel starstruck in here.
3:49
Just hoof. Yeah.
3:51
Let's get into it. OK, So the name of the book we
3:53
have here? Honest Motherhood on losing my
3:57
mind and finding myself. I don't know what the second
3:59
part of book titles is called, but the subtitle, the subtitle,
4:02
Thank you. It's so good.
4:05
It's so good. First, how the hell did you come
4:08
up with? How do you come up with a title
4:11
and a subtitle to encapsulate all that?
4:13
It is this beautiful book that I just finished last night at
4:16
10:30 PM. Over a lot of blood, sweat,
4:20
tears, arguments with yourself and your editor and your, you
4:25
know, it took, it took a long time to land on it.
4:28
Honest Motherhood was the first title.
4:30
And then in the writing process, I fell out of love with the
4:34
name. And I was like, it's too
4:35
obvious. It's too boring.
4:37
Like I wanted something quirkier or that made you think a little
4:41
harder for that. I don't know.
4:43
I it just seemed like too obvious and too straightforward.
4:47
And so I was trying to come up, I think with like cutesy, like
4:49
artsy names for it. And they just like, weren't
4:52
really landing. The the second option was moms
4:56
are people too, which I was. I was going down that road and
5:02
then was like, no, it's a memoir.
5:05
I don't. Yeah.
5:06
So that was one of the other options.
5:09
And I also had other subtitle options, but it's hard.
5:12
It's hard to find both a cover and a title and subtitle because
5:16
there's so many words that are in a book and there's so many
5:19
messages and so many stories that it's like, OK, what
5:22
encapsulates all of this? Yeah, so my husband, Speaking of
5:26
the cover my husband saw on the So I was reading on my Kobo
5:29
because that's the quickest way I could get it a couple days ago
5:31
when it launched and Michael was open and falls asleep and the
5:34
book cover comes up and he looked and he goes, oh, that's a
5:38
sick book cover. And this is a man who is very
5:41
particular. He was in, he's in marketing.
5:43
He's very. And he was just like, you know,
5:46
give that like, respect, not. That's great, I love it.
5:50
And, and I just, yeah, I think it's, I think it's amazing.
5:54
I heard you on another podcast speaking about the fact that you
5:59
started writing the book and you were like, I'm going to include
6:02
all this research. I'm going to include the data.
6:04
I'm going to have this like hard hitting piece of which it's
6:07
still hard hitting. And then you then that was part
6:12
of your journey to say, actually, wait, is it that or is
6:16
this a memoir? So take us to that point where
6:18
you were struggling to write this like, you know, research
6:22
based book and then you were like, fuck, I've got to share my
6:25
story. Yeah, so I signed the book deal
6:28
in 2023 and at the time I was at like the height of my growth on
6:32
like Instagram and TikTok. And so much was happening.
6:36
I was so excited to sign the book deal.
6:37
I've always wanted to write a book, but I didn't know people
6:39
who wrote books, didn't know how that actually happened.
6:42
And so I just got writing and really wanted to help moms
6:50
understand that it's not just them, that they're not alone,
6:52
that there's a lot of reasons that we're burnt out and that
6:56
we're carrying an unbearable load.
6:59
And I think that I started writing with an imposter
7:02
syndrome on my shoulder. I think I thought my story or my
7:07
voice or my expertise or my experience is not enough to say
7:15
what I wanted to say and for it to be credible maybe.
7:19
And so I think that's why I leaned into, well, I need data
7:23
and I need research and I need to show people like, it's not
7:27
just you. The systems are set up to make
7:29
it harder for moms and there's like things in the world that
7:33
make it more difficult. But it was like torture writing.
7:36
Like I spent six months writing the first 3 chapters and, and
7:40
it's because I was trying to do something that wasn't me.
7:43
Like I, I'm not an expert, you know, I'm not, you know, a
7:47
doctor. I'm, I'm not, I never really
7:50
wanted to write like a, a self-care book or anything like
7:53
that. I just was letting that voice
7:55
say that like my story, my voice was not enough to make the
7:59
impact I wanted to make. And it was when I submitted it
8:01
to my editor, we had a meeting and she said, it's, it's good.
8:06
But the parts where you tell your story are great.
8:09
And that is where your power is, is in telling your story in your
8:13
voice. And I think I also had this,
8:15
well, how do real writers write? How do real literary people
8:19
write? How do real experts write?
8:21
And so I was trying to write in a voice that wasn't mine.
8:26
And I mean, for the people who buy my book, they want it to
8:29
sound like me, right? The reason people like me and
8:32
like my content is because of how I say what I say and my own
8:35
perspectives based on my experience.
8:37
And it took her reminding me of that to just, like, kick the
8:42
impostor syndrome off my shoulder and go, OK, I'm just
8:45
gonna write my story in my own voice with my own words,
8:48
regardless of what the real writer people do.
8:50
And now I'm a real writer person.
8:53
You're a real writer person and if people are like I'm from
8:56
small town wherever and nobody I know rights, I have a feeling
9:00
you'll have some, I don't know, feel like you've got some like
9:03
blog posts in there. I'm like, this is what real?
9:05
Like this is how you write a book.
9:07
You know, how do you Share your story?
9:08
But isn't this so meta that you're like as you're saying
9:12
that like, oh, what do real writers do or like, what do the
9:15
real people? Isn't it so I know such an?
9:18
Amazing what you're. Parallel to motherhood, right?
9:21
It's like they're frigging like, what do real mothers do,
9:24
especially in your story at the hardest parts to to read
9:28
honestly were, you know, your early childhood and the
9:32
adversity that you are facing. And I know it throughout the
9:35
book. If you read it and you're going
9:37
to read it, you're talking about like what, what would it have
9:41
been like if I had the modeling of a quote, UN quote real mother
9:45
and that exploration of like what do real brothers do?
9:48
Is it because I had a, an upbringing that was just maybe
9:52
different from Susie at church? And and isn't that crazy that
9:56
all of us, regardless of like, you know, people who have the
9:59
quote UN quote perfect family? It's like what now I'm a mom.
10:02
Are you kidding me? I feel like a 16 year old like
10:05
child bride like. Yes.
10:07
Who gave me this? Like I'm who let me have this
10:09
kid? Who let me raise this person?
10:12
Yes, it is. There's so many parallels to
10:14
when I talk about the writing process.
10:17
Where I had to learn to trust my own voice, my own knowledge, my
10:21
own experience and my own gut. Yeah, in the writing process.
10:26
Just like I had to in motherhood.
10:28
Which is the message of the whole book, right?
10:31
That there's all these people who do things different ways and
10:34
all these shoulds of the world, but you're the only one who
10:38
knows your kid, your needs, your capacity, like your life, your
10:44
pocketbooks, and and you're the only one who can make the
10:46
decisions you need to make in order to be well and whole and
10:49
parent the way that you want a parent.
10:51
OHS, it's so beautifully said. Fast forward, you are now a real
10:55
freaking author. OK, I'd like to share some stats
10:59
as a real author. I don't know if these are stats
11:02
facts that have just unfolded over the last few days since
11:04
your book launch. You are ranked in women's
11:07
biographies amongst some wild names.
11:12
Yes, as you were scrolling on your Instagram post Who?
11:14
But there was like an Obama on there.
11:17
Oh my goodness, there was some uncanny.
11:21
Yeah. Oh, my gosh.
11:23
OK, then there's number one in motherhood, marriage and family,
11:26
Motherhood and women's studies. Love that one.
11:29
How fabulous. And so congratulations.
11:32
Thank you. OK.
11:34
Knowing what you know now, Libby, is there anything that
11:37
you would change about kind of the way you navigate it and the
11:40
things that you did in your early motherhood?
11:43
I mean, I know that it's not possible to do that, so I try
11:46
not to spiral backwards too much.
11:49
But if for some reason I knew what I know now, I would have
11:57
taken a second more every time I had a micro decision to make and
12:03
checked in with myself as to whether that's what I wanted,
12:08
what I needed, what I had the capacity for, if it was
12:11
realistic. I feel like we can talk about
12:14
motherhood in this like big macro, like what are the big
12:18
changes you would make? But for me, there's so many ways
12:22
that I just lived life on autopilot where if my kids
12:27
needed something, I would do it. If my if I thought my husband
12:30
needed something, even if he didn't say it, I would
12:32
prioritize his needs. If my mom hinted that she wanted
12:35
something, I would jump in and save her.
12:37
If you know, I got an opportunity to volunteer
12:41
somewhere, I would do it. Like unless my femur was
12:44
snapped, I would say yes to everyone.
12:47
And unless I was incapacitated, I couldn't really care for
12:53
myself. I just was serving everybody
12:56
else all the time and trying to keep up with what the world said
12:59
I should do. Hmm.
13:01
And if I could go back and just be more conscious, be more
13:09
intentional, be more able to just stop for a moment and ask
13:13
myself like, is this realistic? You know when I feel overwhelmed
13:17
with like I'm taking the kids out to this play date with a
13:21
friend but I'm feeling exhausted because I didn't sleep well last
13:25
night and this ones having a tantrum and I have to go to this
13:29
thing afterwards and I don't really want to go.
13:31
I wish I could trust myself enough and feel confident and
13:34
secure enough to text my friend and say hey I don't think it's
13:37
gonna work today. I really didn't sleep well last
13:39
night instead of forcing myself to go.
13:42
I wish when, you know, my son was struggling to breastfeed or
13:49
to drink from a bottle and I went to the doctor and they
13:53
would gaslight me and say everything was fine.
13:55
I wish I had checked in with myself and like trusted my own
13:58
gut and pushed harder sometimes. I did push hard a lot of times,
14:02
but there is so much of me that was people pleasing and
14:06
perfecting and trying to like balance all these different
14:10
scales and do everything that everyone said I should do.
14:14
And so little of me asking myself what was important to me
14:17
and what I had the capacity for and what I should say yes to and
14:20
what my gut was really telling me.
14:22
And so I think, you know, for a lot of people, new motherhood
14:26
is, is just overwhelming and it is a lot.
14:29
But for those of us who never learned to trust ourselves and
14:33
have spent a lifetime getting through by people pleasing and
14:41
trying to belong rather than being true to our authentic
14:44
self, it's even harder because you don't even hear your own
14:49
voice. You don't even hear your needs.
14:50
You don't hear like, hey, this is out of alignment with my
14:54
value system. You're just trying to do even
14:56
more. And that's what leads to
14:59
burnout. And so if I could go back, I
15:01
wish I just had the knowledge enough to know that I could
15:05
trust my own judgment and voice, and I could listen to my needs a
15:10
little more. Let that answer and the entire
15:14
book is that again, like you said before, it's not just this
15:17
hypothetical. Oh, motherhood is hard.
15:20
Oh, I'm a people pleaser. Oh, I'm a perfect perfectionist,
15:22
which, you know, these are all true things for a lot of us.
15:26
However, we're never actually told like what does that look
15:29
like and what is the cost of that?
15:31
What happens when we what is perfectionistic tendencies?
15:35
What are people pleasing tendencies apart from just
15:37
saying yes, Like what you just described and what you've
15:40
described so beautifully in the book is exactly that.
15:43
It's like this is the cost. And like, and also in your
15:48
answer, it's like I used to be in professional development and
15:50
we used to always, you know, in the corporate setting, we used
15:52
to talk to people about prioritization.
15:54
Is it urgent? Is it important?
15:55
Are you in that trap of going for the things that were that
15:58
person is like this is super urgent and you're like, OK, but
16:01
is it important, like really important to training?
16:04
Yourself yes, practicing asking yourself that question and
16:09
that's what I you know, spoiler alert in the end of the book is
16:12
like it is a practice. You know, like there's all these
16:15
like self help books and these experts who are saying, you
16:18
know, do XY and Z and like this is the way you can figure it
16:21
out. But really, like, you're the
16:24
only one that has the information about your capacity
16:27
and your energy and your values. And you're the only one, like,
16:32
you know, if you take a corporate setting, right, this
16:34
person thinks this thing is the most important.
16:35
And this person thinks this is the most important.
16:37
And this person thinks this you're the only one who has
16:41
access to all of those things and also what's happening inside
16:44
of you. Yeah.
16:45
And it's the same thing with motherhood where, you know,
16:48
Susie down the street might make everything from scratch, and
16:52
Ashley might go to Pilates every morning at 5:00.
16:57
And, like, all these different moms are going to do things
16:59
different ways. They are living a completely
17:01
different life to you. They.
17:03
Their kids are different, they're nervous system is
17:05
different, their husbands, their partners are probably different,
17:08
their parents are different. And so rather than looking at
17:11
what the world does and trying to be like them, you are the
17:17
only, you're the expert of your own life.
17:19
You're the only one that has all of that information.
17:22
And it's like getting into the practice of asking yourself and
17:27
then doing what's in alignment with what you need.
17:32
And the hard, the really, really hard part is moving through the
17:37
uncomfortable. I could disappoint people.
17:40
And sometimes you just think you're gonna disappoint people.
17:42
Sometimes you're actually gonna disappoint people.
17:45
But for me, there was this big gap between, OK, I know what I
17:50
want to do, I know what I need to do, I know what's right for
17:52
me. But the discomfort of changing
17:56
and being different and what that might mean for my
18:00
relationships or my belonging stopped me.
18:03
And so it's like getting past that.
18:06
Only I know the priority. These people might think other
18:08
things are the priority. I actually know what the
18:10
priority is. So I'm going to make a decision
18:13
accordingly. And I will live through people
18:15
being disappointed. I will live and I then will have
18:18
more capacity and I'll feel like a more whole human and a better
18:21
parent because of it. And you're.
18:22
Not going to resent them either, right?
18:24
Right. Like, it's like saying yes to
18:25
the person and then showing up and kind of being a shell of a
18:28
human. And then they're like, well,
18:29
this wasn't fun. I wanted to go for dinner with,
18:31
like, my spunky friend Libby. Yeah.
18:33
Not the one who's like, kind of. But you can feel it.
18:36
Yeah. Begrudging.
18:37
Yeah. And also on the priorities.
18:39
It's. So I remember coming to this
18:41
epiphany, I think, in therapy, you know, a couple months ago
18:45
where I'm like, right. I'm annoyed that this person's
18:48
asking this thing of me. However, it is the most
18:51
important thing to them at this moment, and that's OK.
18:54
Like. It's OK that it's important for
18:57
them. That doesn't mean I need to set
19:00
my life on fire in order to make them happy.
19:03
And that is such an unlock. Yeah, it, it, it is.
19:06
And it's wild when you come to the other side of it, how much
19:11
you realize you lived life on autopilot and you just lived
19:15
your life assuming that you things needed to be a priority
19:19
just because other people thought they were.
19:21
Yeah. Oh, I've had goosebumps.
19:24
Also, I need the air conditioning just like just came
19:26
on a little bit, but that's I think we could finish the
19:29
podcast episode here, but we're not we're going to keep going
19:31
because I think that is like, God, that's the mic drop.
19:34
We can't also can't drop these mics.
19:36
They're not mine. I won't.
19:37
Yeah, OK. Um, OK, radical honesty is a
19:45
huge piece of what you obviously preach and not preach.
19:51
You don't preach, you share, I kind.
19:54
Of pressure. You share.
19:55
You share your truth. And so many of us know that to
19:59
be honest with ourselves, to be honest with others, like we
20:02
intellectually are like, duh, of course that makes sense.
20:06
Yet we still feel so much shame. I felt it viscerally when I was
20:10
reading the part in your book where you're talking about,
20:12
let's call her Ashley. I forgot what name you used the
20:14
student. You use in the book where your
20:17
quote UN quote perfect friend is coming over, she's about to go
20:21
into the fridge to get some milk and you're like, no, no, I'll
20:24
get it. I felt so seen on that page
20:28
because intellectually I know it doesn't fucking matter.
20:32
It's just a fridge and it's just a crumb or it's just an expired
20:35
yogurt or whatever. However, in practice that like
20:39
body, you're talking about the body keeps score too, which I
20:42
really need to read it. Just like you've got this
20:44
visceral shame that, and I'm not speaking for everybody, I'm
20:48
speaking for myself. That can wash over you.
20:51
Any tips? Any tips for like being OK with
20:56
maybe working with that shame? Maybe it will continue to be
21:00
there or quieting it? How can the mom listening, who
21:03
also feels this quiet, that little voice?
21:07
Practice. It's, it's practice.
21:10
It's, you know, the, I remember the first time I said no to
21:18
plans with a friend who, you know, they really wanted to go
21:21
out and I didn't want to disappoint them, but was like,
21:24
I, I'm gonna, I'm gonna say no. And, you know, I wanted to peel
21:29
my skin off. You know, I was like, they're
21:31
going to be mad at me. They're going to hate me.
21:32
They're not going to like me. Or, you know, various different
21:35
times that I had to be true to myself or if I was, you know,
21:39
embarrassed about. Or here's a good example.
21:42
It was probably five years ago now.
21:44
I decided I'm gonna stop rage cleaning my house every time
21:47
people come over and then apologize for it.
21:49
Do you ever do that? Words like you run around
21:51
cleaning the house, clean the house, they get there and then
21:53
you still go, I'm sorry it's such a mess.
21:55
Yep. And let you know it's not a
21:57
mess. You know, you were just busting
21:59
your ass to clean it, but you still feel like maybe it's still
22:02
not quite as clean as they would have had it.
22:04
So I'll just apologize just in case to cover my bases because I
22:06
don't want to feel shame. I don't.
22:07
Be caught out right. I don't want to be caught out
22:09
the. Baseboard.
22:10
What if she sees it right? Right.
22:11
And so I really wanted to start being true to myself and like
22:15
making my home a place where anyone feels welcome and I wanna
22:20
connect. I wanted to connect with friends
22:21
and moms and other people more. And I knew that my need to have
22:25
a perfect home setting was stopping me from doing that.
22:27
Yes. So I was like, I am just, I'm
22:29
going to invite people over and I am, I am not going to rage
22:33
clean and then apologize. And so the first time I did it,
22:37
I didn't rage clean, but I still apologized.
22:40
OK, OK. And then, you know, the 2nd,
22:43
3rd, 4th time I, you know, I didn't apologize quite so much.
22:49
And then, you know, you know what I mean?
22:51
Like it's like I worked towards, OK, now, now I'm at a point
22:56
where I don't rage clean and I don't apologize and people just
22:59
come and it is what it is. But it took like baby steps of
23:03
like practicing. And the the first time I did
23:07
feel like this visceral shame and I just like existed with the
23:11
shame at the same time. And then the next times exposure
23:14
therapy, right? It's like the next time it's
23:16
like, OK, we're going to do it again.
23:18
It's not going to feel quite as shameful the time after that.
23:22
I'm going to push it a bit forward and I'm not going to
23:24
clean at all. OK, Now this feels like the
23:27
first big whammy of shame, but then the time after that like it
23:31
then it's just like subsides and subsides.
23:33
And so I say to people just do it anyway.
23:35
And I say this about guilt as well.
23:37
People ask me about mom guilt all the time and I really don't
23:41
feel a ton of guilt anymore about there's certain things
23:44
that I feel guilty about. Like today, for example, I'm
23:46
missing my daughters very first dance competition graduations.
23:50
I feel more, you know, they actually thank you.
23:52
I feel more grief. I think.
23:54
I feel sad that I'm missing it. Yeah, it's not guilt because
23:58
it's not that it's out of alignment with my value system.
24:01
It's not that it's I've done something bad because that's
24:03
what guilt is, right? Like guilt tells you and you're
24:05
out of alignment with your value system.
24:06
I'm like, I haven't done something bad, but I do feel sad
24:08
that I'm missing it. Yeah, all of that to say with
24:12
guilt, I, I mean, I used to feel guilty for leaving my kids at
24:17
home with my husband while I went to the grocery store.
24:19
Like, I'm not talking about going away for a night.
24:23
I'm not talking about like a spa weekend.
24:26
Going to do work for my household AKA grocery shopping
24:30
alone would make me feel guilty. I would feel guilty if I missed
24:35
bedtime and my husband had to put the kids.
24:38
But I would feel guilt for so many things.
24:40
And the way I began to move through it was just doing it.
24:48
Wow, feeling guilty, like going for the walk around the block,
24:52
being like, OK, I feel kind of guilty, but I'm gonna do it
24:54
anyway because I know it's good for me.
24:56
And then, you know, I, you know, once I started walking more, I
25:01
became a little bit more regulated or, you know, once you
25:03
start doing things that are good for you or in alignment with
25:07
your values and you feel the benefits, right, it's no longer
25:11
the cost. You feel a benefits of like, oh,
25:13
I took care of myself. Oh I'm not burnt out because I
25:16
didn't go to that event that I didn't want to go to.
25:18
You feel better, you show up for your kids better.
25:21
You show up for yourself better. And that like proves to you Oht.
25:25
Actually I had nothing to feel guilty about in the 1st place.
25:28
I spent so long not letting myself do things because the
25:32
guilt felt like a fact instead of a feeling.
25:36
The guilt felt like you are wrong, you are bad, not just
25:41
this is a feeling that you have. And it wasn't until I started
25:45
just doing things while feeling guilty that the guilt eventually
25:49
subsided. And so whether it's shame,
25:52
whether it's guilt, whether it's nerves about how it's gonna
25:56
affect other people, you're gonna disappoint them.
25:58
You will prove to yourself that you'll survive.
26:01
You'll survive people's disappointment.
26:03
You will survive the full body shame.
26:06
You will survive all those moments.
26:07
And, and in the time, it's like a refining process where you'll
26:12
realize that there's certain relationships, there's certain
26:14
people, there's certain circumstances that aren't
26:17
changed whatsoever. And it's fine.
26:19
And Oh my gosh, you could have started saying no long time ago,
26:22
Wow. There will be other places where
26:25
like there is friction because that's what happens when we
26:29
change. But on the other side of that,
26:32
you feel like more in alignment with who you are and what's good
26:37
for you and what you need, and you deserve that.
26:40
Off it's it, it hits, it hits. It's so, it's so real now.
26:48
You've done so much work in personal development and you're
26:51
in this space. Is there a difference?
26:53
I'm honestly just curious, Is there a difference from your
26:56
perspective between guilt and shame?
26:57
Like what's Brené Brown saying? What are you saying on that?
27:00
I wish that I had Brené Brown on my phone right now and I could
27:03
just look it up. What does she say?
27:06
She must say something she does. She does say, she does say
27:09
something and I don't know it off the top of my head.
27:11
There is a difference, I think, she says.
27:14
I was going to say don't quote me on this, but I'm just going
27:16
to, yeah, whatever. She says something like guilt
27:20
says I did something bad and shame says I am something bad.
27:26
There it. Is I think.
27:27
That's what she. Says what she says.
27:30
And that, that makes sense. That makes sense.
27:34
I sometimes use them interchangeably and maybe I
27:35
shouldn't. I think either way it's we will
27:40
survive our feelings. I feel like I I spent so long
27:42
being afraid of negative feelings, afraid of guilt,
27:44
afraid of shame, afraid of rage, afraid of anger, afraid of
27:50
resentment, afraid of those feelings because I thought that
27:54
feeling them made me a bad person or made me a bad mom.
27:58
When in fact, feelings are just information.
28:02
Yeah. They're just their information
28:04
that tells you what you need. If you're feeling resentment,
28:08
that probably means you have some unmet needs.
28:11
And maybe you could have made a different decision or you can
28:13
make a different decision. Or if you're angry, like if
28:16
you're angry, there's some probably something that feels
28:18
unfair and maybe you need to have a hard conversation with
28:20
someone. And if you're sad, maybe you
28:22
need to let yourself feel that because the sad thing happened,
28:24
not because you're bad or you're not enough or you're a crappy
28:27
mom or your piece of garbage. A sad thing happened and you're
28:31
allowed to feel sad about that. It doesn't have to mean anything
28:34
about you. No, I think so much as women, we
28:36
take our feelings and we have to make them mean something about
28:40
us. Like if you feel joy, that means
28:42
you love your kids, and if you feel anger, that means maybe you
28:45
don't love your kids. And if you feel rage, then you
28:48
should feel bad. But feelings are always going to
28:53
exist. They're always going to be
28:54
there. There's always going to be
28:55
positive ones and negative ones. And they don't mean anything
28:57
about us, but they do give us information about how we can
29:01
live our lives and what our needs are.
29:03
It's. So true.
29:04
And even the example of the house and like feeling, I had a
29:07
therapist that used to call it firing the second arrow where
29:10
you feel the negative feeling and then you beat yourself up
29:13
with a second arrow. You're like double hitting
29:15
yourself. Yeah.
29:16
My life is just full of second arrows.
29:18
Yeah, I'm just trying to set them all on fire these days.
29:20
Yeah, like recovered from that. I'm picturing Hunger Games and
29:27
it's just the the feeling of like, I don't know, moving
29:31
through that and like moving with it because I think there is
29:34
something to be said about a feeling giving you information
29:36
where you're like, I just want like, I can't even sit to.
29:40
So I'm going to use my own personal example.
29:42
Recently I was sitting trying to sit down on the couch to watch
29:45
TV show after our kids went to bed.
29:47
They've had some tough bed times three and five, like they're
29:50
just I don't know, there's weird, we're dropping naps, I
29:52
don't know, weird stuff going on and I'm sitting on the couch
29:54
with my husband. We're like, going to watch them,
29:56
like trashy reality show. And I'm looking around and I was
29:58
like, yeah, like, I was so frustrated because I was like,
30:03
there's like, stuff everywhere. And like, why can't we, Like,
30:06
why can't I be a mom who has a beautiful tidy house?
30:09
Why can't I be a mom who does this?
30:11
Why can't you be tidying up to, you know, I'm just like, I was
30:13
kind of like raging a bit and, and yes, I want to rage less
30:18
about that and care less about that.
30:20
But what it also did tell me is that like, I feel pretty
30:23
overstimulated in this house and I'm not going to apologize for
30:26
feeling that either. So like I've got a decision like
30:29
I can just like say goodbye to that because I don't want to sit
30:32
in that like rage spell every night.
30:35
Or I can do something about maybe it's like a a tactic I
30:38
could use to be like, OK, what, you know, what options do I have
30:41
going to throw money at this? Am I going to take a bit more
30:43
time to clean? Are we going to have a
30:45
conversation about how we can just, like, pick up?
30:47
So the next day we were like, OK, before we turn on the TV, my
30:50
kids watched the TV when I'm cooking or one of us is cooking
30:53
dinner, and that's like their TV time.
30:54
But now we're like, hey, you gotta clean up your toys before
30:57
we do that. I was like, hey, there you go.
30:59
That's a nice little win. Yeah.
31:01
And at the same time, yeah, like, I don't want to do the
31:04
rage clean. Yeah, either.
31:05
Yeah. And it's like you feel the
31:07
feeling, Yeah. And then you stop and ask
31:10
yourself, OK, what's the next right thing?
31:12
Don't waste your energy making yourself feel bad for feeling
31:16
the feeling. Yes.
31:17
Feel it. What is it trying to tell me?
31:20
What is this feeling trying to tell me?
31:21
Yeah. And based on what it's trying to
31:22
tell me, OK, what can we do about it?
31:24
Like, what are our options here exactly?
31:26
I'd spent so long not doing that.
31:28
And just, yeah, either making myself feel bad for having the
31:32
feeling or continuing to over function or whatever it is.
31:35
And it just made everything worse.
31:37
It just spiraled. So good for you for doing that.
31:40
And it's it's a, it's something you have to practice right to.
31:45
And sometimes we're better than others.
31:46
Sometimes I know I can feel a feeling, and I can very quickly
31:50
go, OK, like what is happening right now, Like if someone's
31:53
having a tantrum, you know, maybe I can more quickly go, OK,
31:57
your nervous system is afraid, but there's actually nothing to
32:00
be afraid of. And so you're just gonna take a
32:02
deep breath. And other times something
32:05
happens and I spiral for a day and a half, and then I have
32:10
coffee with a friend who's like, hey, So what is that feeling
32:15
telling you? And I go, oh, yeah, right.
32:17
So it's friends. Are good it's there's.
32:19
No perfect way to do it. And I feel like all of us in
32:25
different areas of our life, we're going to get more
32:27
triggered by certain things than others.
32:29
There's going to be some things that make me feel shame that
32:31
don't make you feel shame. And again, you're the only one
32:34
that knows that about yourself. And so rather than saying like
32:38
you're a piece of garbage because this small thing
32:40
triggers you and it doesn't trigger other people, just feel
32:44
the feeling, OK? What are we gonna do about it
32:46
then? I love.
32:47
That I love that. OK, Speaking of feelings,
32:51
Speaking of emotions, Speaking of your radical honesty, your
32:54
honest journey of motherhood. I need to know how you handle,
33:00
and I think you're gonna feel shy about this question, but how
33:03
do you handle when people inevitably see you?
33:05
You are very famous now. You're the big times.
33:09
You're up there with them. When you're up there, you're up
33:11
there and people see you and they're like, Oh my goodness, a
33:14
safe space to unload and share my own shit, my own trauma and
33:19
my own stuff. Like a what a gift that people
33:22
feel that way around you. And what a thing to hold for
33:27
other people. How do you manage that?
33:30
Part of this. World you're in.
33:31
It is. An interesting position to be in
33:33
because you think about therapists, there's that third
33:35
wall, right? Right.
33:36
They, they have to put up their own boundaries.
33:39
There's only certain things they share with you.
33:41
You have a limited time constraint.
33:44
I don't have that. I'm not a therapist, but people
33:46
do feel really connected to me. And honestly, I mean, I love
33:53
meeting people in person. I really do.
33:56
I love connecting like with my community and I feel like I
34:02
attract some pretty great people.
34:04
Yeah. Like there's so many women that
34:06
I meet that I'm like, wow, I can't believe I I get to be
34:09
connected with you because of what what I do.
34:11
It's honestly sometimes digitally like my DMS that I can
34:16
feel more overwhelmed by, I bet because it's just like 1 after
34:21
another after another. And so when I am vulnerable, of
34:24
course that opens the door for other people to be vulnerable.
34:27
They feel seen. Maybe there's nobody else in
34:29
their life that has experienced that before and so they'll share
34:32
back with me. And it's kind of this double
34:34
edged sword where I love being in my DM because it makes me
34:37
feel connected to people and it inspires my content.
34:40
And we have great conversations, but I never know what each one
34:44
is going to be. So it's like you never know how
34:48
much there's going to be or what a message is going to say or how
34:52
many of them there's going to be.
34:53
And I am someone which you would read about in my book, who does
34:58
feel, I feel a deep desire to help every person that I meet.
35:03
And so I've had to practice being OK with either not opening
35:08
every DM, not responding to every DM, not trying to fix, not
35:13
taking it on as my responsibility.
35:16
And so that's just been something that I have had to
35:19
navigate. But in person, I mean, I've had
35:22
very few experiences where it's felt like too, too much.
35:27
Yes, people are usually pretty respectful.
35:30
It actually was on Saturday. I don't know when this podcast
35:33
is coming out, but my launch party close to where I live in
35:37
Hamilton, there was about 300 people who came to the launch
35:40
party and they were, you know, friends, family, fans, people
35:43
from all over. And I could tell the people who
35:47
came who were fans had been, you know, followers fans for a long
35:51
time. And like, knew me well cause we
35:53
had a meet and greet line and you know, it's like one person
35:57
after the other and probably at least a third of them, they
36:00
would come up, they'd meet me and they'd go.
36:03
He must be so overstimulated right now.
36:05
Like you're gonna need to like take a break later.
36:07
And I was like, you're so sweet. Like they just get it.
36:11
Like, how's your nervous system doing?
36:13
Like how are you feeling? You know, how are your feet
36:16
doing? How it's like how?
36:18
Like, does your face hurt from smiling too much?
36:21
And they were so caring and so sweet.
36:24
And it just made me think like, I, I love that I have attracted
36:28
these kinds of people. Like they're just like good
36:31
caring moms, women who are just trying their best and we're so
36:36
good at checking in with other people and look right like his
36:40
moms women. Moms are so right.
36:42
Like we we sometimes suck at checking in with ourselves,
36:47
right, But it's so easy to be like, oh wow, she must be tired.
36:50
She must be over stimulated. I'll check in with her.
36:52
And so anyway, it was it was just so cute.
36:55
So many I have. Share something with you.
36:57
OK, I put a question box on my Instagram saying I got to
37:01
interview Libby Ward. What do you wanna know?
37:04
Listen to this from, from somebody who I don't know, no
37:08
question specifically, but hoping you can share our
37:11
collective energy with her with this heart and these twinkle
37:15
stars or whatever. That's all she wrote.
37:17
Ohm, that's so sweet. How cool.
37:20
Is so sweet. It's so sweet.
37:21
You know, I have been someone who has felt guilt around joy.
37:28
Actually, I think I I've had a lot of hard experiences in life
37:33
and I know a lot of people who have had really hard lives.
37:36
And I've created a career for myself whereby I am acutely
37:40
aware of how hard people's lives are and how hard women's lives
37:43
are and how much they're carrying and how heavy it is and
37:45
how many responsibilities there are and how little they get to
37:48
have time away. And I feel with them like I
37:54
genuinely like, I, I can take that on, but it sometimes has
37:59
turned unhealthy and that I've stopped myself from feeling
38:04
excitement or joy or allowing myself to express like, Oh my
38:09
gosh, I can't believe I get to do this thing or this thing was
38:11
really fun or this thing was really easy and great because
38:17
I'd, I'd never want it to, you know, I just like picture the
38:21
mom at home like I was 10 years ago, like trapped in the house
38:25
for three days and going squirrely and having no one to
38:28
talk to and no time alone. And I've let other peoples hard
38:35
things stop me from feeling joy. But I've been really proud of
38:40
myself on this tour cause I am just like letting myself be like
38:44
I did it like I did thing and I genuinely feel so I feel proud
38:50
of myself. And then I feel proud of myself
38:52
for feeling proud of myself and for not having shame about that
38:57
or not feeling guilty for being on a book tour and getting to
39:03
eat fancy meals and meeting incredible women and have great
39:06
conversations. Like it is such a privilege and
39:09
it's a privilege that most people in the world will never
39:12
have. And for now, I don't have that
39:16
voice saying like, well, why you or other people deserve that
39:20
too? Or you not, You don't deserve
39:22
that. I actually just feel so proud of
39:24
myself and so grateful. And I can feel the energy.
39:27
Like I open my DMS and I open my comments and I meet people in
39:29
person and they're so happy for me.
39:32
And I'm happy for me and honestly like it.
39:34
It has been like such a great experience these last few weeks
39:38
to feel those good feelings and let them happen and like do it
39:42
collectively together. So yes.
39:44
Fuck yeah, I accept it. I'm crying with you.
39:49
I you would do the same, right? If you were 10 years ago and I
39:54
bet you were like watching somebody else's success, you'd
39:56
be like, go girl. Yeah, get it.
39:58
Go celebrate. Other People 100.
40:01
Percent, Yeah, We feel so much joy on behalf of other people.
40:04
But you're right. Like there's so many instances
40:05
where we don't let ourselves feel that joy because you're
40:07
like, I know what it's like or, you know, hearing that somebody
40:10
had a harder, like, you would have fucking hard life and
40:13
childhood, a lot of complex trauma.
40:15
And you're like, that person had a harder.
40:17
Yeah. Like.
40:18
They experience XY and Z. They're like, we can't do that,
40:21
especially as we talk about like the mothering phase and the
40:24
comparison that comes with it. Not for any other reason than
40:27
just we're all like, you know, it's just it's natural.
40:31
And so I'm so joyful for you. I'm so pumped for you.
40:36
You should be excited. I am excited to start.
40:39
This is just the start OK, those were the other questions were
40:43
not be able to get to those those those were the ones that
40:47
sorry the other questions in the DM's.
40:49
Oh yeah, the question. Box.
40:51
I mean, there was some. Beautiful ones we do.
40:53
Like a rapid fire. Limit me to 1 sentence and I
40:56
feel like we're like a natural. Like a natural quote, give you
41:00
rapid answer. Force me to give you a rapid
41:02
answer, God. This is fun.
41:03
OK, this is actually a really good.
41:05
It's hard. For me to be rapid.
41:06
So this is going to be a challenge and it's going to be
41:08
great. What kind of message do you want
41:12
the audience to not take away from the book?
41:16
I know it's a hard one. I.
41:18
Don't want people to take away the message that motherhood is
41:21
just hard and there's nothing you can do about it.
41:23
Fucking love that. Love that.
41:26
What does success look like for you now?
41:29
Success looks like listening to my inner voice and being true to
41:38
myself and having a regulated nervous system and going outside
41:42
every day. That's good.
41:45
And I was one sentence. There was comments and I want to
41:47
talk back, but no, this is rapid fire.
41:49
OK, What do you want the motherhood narrative to sound
41:52
like by the end of 2026? Are these good questions?
41:55
These are. Great questions and like that is
41:57
not that much time, but if I were to just like dream up the
42:00
motherhood narrative, it would be that surprise, surprise,
42:03
mothers are people too, and we should treat ourselves as such.
42:10
Excellent. I love that.
42:12
OK, Libby, I asked this to all my guests.
42:15
What are you still trying to figure out in this season?
42:20
I am still trying to figure out how to do what I love and am
42:26
passionate about while still living a regular life with my
42:32
kids that I can feel fully present for.
42:37
Wow, you've thought of that. Because it's true in my bones.
42:42
Yeah. Yeah.
42:43
But what? A beautiful It's such a
42:44
beautiful answer There's not negative it's just like yeah, I
42:48
wanna keep having fun, I keep one wanna keep living life yeah
42:51
I. Wanna do this?
42:52
I wanna do this work. Yes, and I want to be able to
42:56
sit at the dinner table and not think about it and just listen
42:59
to my kids stories that go on forever.
43:02
I don't know about your kids. They just keep going.
43:04
Yeah, well. I mean, my kids with this great,
43:06
they're at this great age, they're 9 and 11, they're nearly
43:09
10 and 12. And I love it.
43:11
Like I was made for this age. I was not made for the toddler
43:13
years. I was, I was made for other
43:15
people's toddler years. Like I friggin love toddlers
43:18
like 1 1/2 to 3, like give me them for 45 minutes and then
43:22
take them away. I love them.
43:24
I love them so much. And I did love mine, of course,
43:27
but like I was made for the middle years.
43:30
It's so fun to have conversations and a joke and
43:32
play games and do the things and hang out with my daughter like
43:36
it's and my son like it's great. But I now have this career that
43:41
is insane and a privilege and beautiful and can take over my
43:45
life if you let it, if I let it. And it's so.
43:48
It's a constant, very radical honesty at a large scale to
43:53
prioritize what matters all day every day for someone who has
43:58
raging ADHD and timeliness. I keep asking, but I've gotta
44:03
ask like, what do you, what are some of your tools?
44:05
Can we talk about the fact you have an assistant?
44:07
I think we have to talk about some of that stuff.
44:09
I know you're shrinking a bit, but it's like I talk about the
44:12
fact that we have a nanny and I'm and I shrink when I say
44:14
that, but I'm like, there's incredible privilege in it and.
44:18
And you people aren't? Talking about these things so so
44:21
for you, like in order to do this job, you know what else who
44:25
other who else is in your in your corner?
44:27
How are you doing it? Yeah, I mean.
44:28
I, I couldn't do it without my husband.
44:30
Like, he's an incredible partner and like parent to our kids and
44:33
my assistant's great. I have, yeah, a whole book team.
44:37
So I have a lot of people who help me to be who I am and how I
44:40
am and my friends and yeah, very grateful for that.
44:43
OK, and if we can get a sneaky, sneaky, I'm such a like
44:45
forward-looking person. So we've got honest motherhood.
44:49
What what? What is the next topic that
44:51
you're feeling spicy and excited about?
44:54
Hmm. Female friendships.
44:56
Cool. Cool.
44:58
Yeah, I don't know if we'll go anywhere with that.
45:00
The next thing that I'm excited about is laying in the grass in
45:03
the summer after this book tour. I've spent 37 years planning
45:06
what's next and I'm very proud to say that I am intentionally
45:10
not planning what's next because I would like to go to the beach
45:14
and to be present with my family and to just enjoy life and I
45:20
raging, raging ADHD. So the ideas will come.
45:23
They'll come later. You're.
45:24
Like, I'm not worried about the ideas and they're coming, but I
45:27
love that. Thank you from the bottom of my
45:29
heart for sharing your time and your energy in this adorable
45:34
little studio here with me in Austin, TX.
45:36
It has been such a privilege. Thank you.
45:38
Thanks for having me. Thanks for.
45:40
Coming. Where can everybody find the
45:41
book? I know they can order it in
45:42
local bookstores. Local.
45:44
Bookstores, Indigo, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, all the places
45:50
that you buy books. You can buy my book.
45:52
Audible. Audible.
45:53
I read the audio book as well. People ask me every day, do you
45:58
read it? Yes.
45:59
And I listened to read it. I.
46:01
Read on my Kobo and I told you that that my eyes got a bit
46:03
tired on the plane. So then I switched to Spotify
46:05
and then I texted a girlfriend Meredith shout out.
46:08
She's one of the people that tagged me in your Instagram post
46:11
being like Andre needs to interview you.
46:13
And I messaged her saying you've got to listen because Libby's
46:17
voice just brings it home. So you're incredible.
46:20
Thank you for the work that you're doing in this world and
46:23
can't wait to see what's next. Thanks.