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قسمت سوم لابی اسرائیل و سیاست خارجی آمریکا · دانشگاه صوتی چکیده ماندگار | کتاب تاریخی سیاسی

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: In Tabestan 1403, we published the first and second parts
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: of the podcast of the Israeli Library. In the first part,
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: we said that the help announced by the United States
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: to Israel is only the.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Tip of a mountain.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: These help are not limited to economic help only. It
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: also includes military, political, diplomatic, intelligence, science and technology help.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: It has used the veto right in the international organization
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: to protect Israel and has taken the most advanced military
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: reforms to the point of neglecting the nuclear program of
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: this regime, so that no country in history has done
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: any help to any other country. We discussed this question,
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: why does the United States do everything for Israel and
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: set fire to it? Do the Americans love Israel? Why
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: do American politicians, whether Democrats or Republicans, who disagree with
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: each other in many countries, not only disagree with Israel,
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: but also deny their relationship? In response to this question,
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: a hypothesis has been raised that no one points out
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: these masses of US and Israel's unconditional support. Or this
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: argument that the US supports Israel for its moral observations
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: is not true at all. Because in Israel and Palestine's claims,
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: Israel is not the victim of the refugees. Rather, it
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: is Israel that oppresses the people of Palestine and all
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: the countries of the region. The only thing that explains
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: and points out these indiscriminate supports is that not the
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: national interest of the United States, but the unfair influence
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: of the Israeli lobby on the White Congress and the White.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: House.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: In the second part of the podcast, we went to
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: the practical work of the Israeli lobby, which did what
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: in Iraq and what result it received. Let's get rid
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: of what came to the people of Iraq and did
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: to Daesh.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: In the event.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: Of the killing of thousands of American soldiers in Iraq,
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: and the collection of a few trillion dollars of America,
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: what has become of this first power?
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: What did.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: The Israeli lobby do to Syria, to Lebanon and Iran?
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: And how does the US benefit from the sacrifice of
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: ideological high-speed flights.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: That become the last resort of a minority?
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: From the pressure to get Trump out of the regime,
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: until the imposition of sanctions and the implementation of military
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: attacks against Iran, no one can understand the role of
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: the Israeli lobby.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: These days of 1405, after two 12-day.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: And 40-day wars, and the terror of the Iranian leaders,
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: officials and commanders, the bombers of the industrial centers and
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: the air force of the war, For the sake of
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: the cities of Iran, we feel the role of the
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: Israeli lobby in America more than ever in our lives. Hello,
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: I am Esfandiar Khodai in Chikide Mandegar. We will summarize
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: the great books of Iran and the world, which you
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: may never have the opportunity to read, in the shortest
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: possible time. Let's try to choose books that are suitable
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: for the needs of these sensitive days.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: Of our country.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: Why can't it be said in America from Israel? In 2006,
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: John Mersheimer and Stephen Wald, two professors at the Chicago
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: and Harvard universities, They co-wrote the article as the lobby
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: of Israel and foreign.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: Policy of the United States.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: They filled the article in the Atlantic Monthly magazine. Atlantic
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: was first accepted, but after a.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: Few months, it rejected the article.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: No other magazine or American newspaper was ready to publish it.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: Neither the New York Times, nor the Washington Post, nor
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: the Foreign Affairs, none of them. Two American professors were
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: forced to publish a British publication called London Review of
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: Books in London to publish a scientific article. The new
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: article that was published started a storm of attacks. The
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: writers were accused of Jewish extremism and totalitarianism. Alan Dershowitz,
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: Harvard University's famous law professor, called them academic Jewish.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: Citizens.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: The powerful AIPAC organization gave a statement and called the
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: article hateful.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: They pressured these two professors to exit the university. They
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: cut off.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: Financial aid to their departments. But Mershimer and Waldo instead
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: of giving up and surrendering, sat down and worked on
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: their article for another year. The result of this work
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: is the book of the Israeli lobby and foreign policy
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: of the United States. A detailed and detailed answer to
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: those disputes and accusations with.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: Hundreds of answers and evidence.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: But this book does not only end the story of
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: these events and stories, Mershimer and Waldo. They show in
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: different chapters of the book that this behavior is not exceptional.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: It is a constructive or systematic approach. They say that
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: in America, the criticism of Israel, especially the power of
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: the Israeli lobby, is a taboo.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: Anyone who crosses.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: This red line will be eliminated by the Jewish tyranny.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: The writers in the book state that The accusation of
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: Judaism can create such a fear that many people are
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: self-confident about the policies of Israel or the influence of
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: the Israeli lobby. Mirshamir and Walt say that the Israeli
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: lobby is not Jewish at all, just as the lobby
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: of the Kubanis is not Kubanist. But this is an
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: effective political weapon to remove the opponents of the Israeli lobby.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: But how does the Israeli lobby censor? The book explains
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: three military organizations. The first is the organization of the organization.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: The Israeli organization, especially AIPAC, has the media and public
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: appearances under consideration. and any deviation from the official narrative of.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: The ruler is recognized and recognized. 2. Pressure on the media.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: Whenever an article or a report is published against the
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: official narrative of the ruler and about the identification of
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: the Israeli lobby, the flow of offensive messages, threatening calls
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: and threats to the commercial agents of the press office
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: are threatened.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: Third, academic messages. Teachers who pass through the red line face.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: The danger of cutting the research budget, lack of funding
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: and even exclusion in some cases. What is the result
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: of this construction? The writers say, the result is widespread self-censorship.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: Many journalists, academics and politicians They simply ignore the discussion
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: about the Israeli lobby because its costs are very high
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: and its.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: Benefits are very low.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: They are happy that this atmosphere and a serious defect
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: in the democracy of the United States is happening.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: The issue is that thousands.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: Of billions of dollars from the country's resources and the
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: national security of.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: The United States.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: Is under the influence of the general debate. and scientific
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: criticism comes out. This book is an attempt to break
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: this silence. Let's go to one of the most interesting.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: Parts of the book.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: The Zionist Christians are the allies of the Israeli lobby.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: Mershai Merwawalt wrote a complete chapter of the book Mesihian Sahyunis,
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: Mutahedan Labi Yisrael Mershay Merwawalt, a complete section of the
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: book is classified into groups that are less discussed due
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: to the influence of the eye. Mesihian Sahyunis or the
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: same evangelicals of America. According to Amar, the evangelical community
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: is between 40 to.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: 60 million people in America.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: Evangelicals are an important part of the Republican Party with
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: television networks, huge churches and billions of dollars in capital.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: This group is not only Israel's supporters who are the
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: most difficult supporters of Israel. They help Israel to build
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: a Jewish city in the Bachtari district and stay with
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: Israel in every way.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: But what is the motive of this support?
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: The book does not address the strategic benefits that this group's.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: Beliefs and beliefs have.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: Based on the last-minute beliefs of the Messianic Christians or Evangelicals,
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: which are rooted in the beliefs or dispensationalism of the gods,
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: the return of the Jews to the Holy Land is
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: a necessary prerequisite for the fulfillment of the prophecies of
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: the Holy Book and the appearance.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: Of the Messiah again.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: In this last-minute scenario, the Jews come to Israel, rebuild
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: the Temple of Solomon and then start the final war
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: of Armageddon. According to evangelical believers, in this war of Armageddon,
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: two-thirds of the Jews are killed and one-third of the
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: remaining are either taken to Christianity or are destroyed. Merchandise
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: Merbewald considers this situation a paradox and writes that Israel
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: and the Israeli lobby in the United States make their
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: own closest political alliance with a group that in the
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: framework of their religious beliefs is the writing of the
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: end of Judaism or the change of religion or the destruction.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: This is a Zionist messianic. against many of the American
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: Jews who mainly belong to the Democratic Party, they are
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: on the right side.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: Of the Republic.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: And they are opposed to any kind of peace and
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: two-state policy, because they believe that peace in the Middle
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: East is a barrier to the way of achieving the
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: last moments. The writers in this period argue that the
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: alliance between the Israeli lobbyists and the Messianic Evangelicals played
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: an important role in the decisions of George Bush's government,
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: including the attack on Iraq in 2003 and all the
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: harmful interventions of the United States in the Middle East. Merck,
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: Scheimer and Waltz don't just refute and don't know enough
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: about the Israeli lobby. They also have a great path
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: for America, a program for the Israeli lobby, and a
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: path for getting out of Iran. Merck, Scheimer and Waltz,
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: like many American strategists, They consider the great balance of
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: long-distance or offshore balancing to be the best strategy for
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: the foreign policy of the United States, including in the
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: Middle East.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: But what is the balance of long-distance?
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: The defenders of this balance claim that the direct entry
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: and presence of the United States in areas such as
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: the Middle East, East Asia and Europe has serious costs,
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: because only this military presence It becomes the basis for
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: the conflict against the United States. According to this long-term balance,
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: it is better that the United States, with the help
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: of its co-operative governments in the region, prevent the rule
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: of a special power. In the long-term balance, the presence
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: of the regime and the direct intervention must be the
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: last choice, not the first, as it happened in the
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: attack on Iraq. The United States should only intervene when
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: it is necessary and this intervention should be short and fast.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: The long-term balance approach guarantees three reasons for the benefit
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: of the United States in the Middle East. 1.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: It reduces the risk.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: Of terrorism and America City, because the United States is
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: not seen as a temporary threat to the people and
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: the region.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: If America had only one lesson from Iraq's occupation, it
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: would be the same.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: Military intervention causes nationalist feelings to be stimulated and forms
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: a conflict between political groups and terrorists. As a result,
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: the people and the region consider the American compatriots as
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: foreign slaves and the struggle against America turns into a
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: national dream. 3. On the contrary to the direct military intervention,
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: the balance of the road from a distance causes countries
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: like Iran to feel less danger and have less motivation
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: to rely on mass and nuclear weapons. You put yourself
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: in the shoes of the Iranians when we have hit
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: four sides of the military base and our president threatens.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: Every morning that.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: Gozineh nizami roye mize iraniha charei joz raftan be samte
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: bazdarendegi hastai nadaran ta az majoodiyate khodeshon defa konan. Hozor
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: nizami wa gonjondane Iran, Suriye wa digaran dar mehware shararat
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: ba'ase etahad ona mishe wa zamine ro bara nufuz chino,
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: rousie o digaran faraham mikone. 3. Hozor nizami wa tahdid
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: peyvaste Iran It also moves the feelings of the Iranian nationalists.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: In this space, the tyrants reach power and the middle.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: Of the tyrants become the target. The Iranian.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: Government also suppresses the internal criticism of the U.S.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: With the help of the U.S. military.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: But in the wake of the direct threat of the U.S. military,
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: according to the far-reaching balance report, The people of Iran
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: can also demand and prevent the last-minute political and ideological strife.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: In 2002, when George Bush, despite the cooperation of the
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: Khatami government in Afghanistan, put Iran in a state of mischief,
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: he made a huge blow to Khatami's policy of cooperation
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: and peace and arrested the reformists in Iran in an off-site.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: As a result, Ahmadinejad's controversial speech came to power, and
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: the boom of Iranian society turned into a major priority.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: For the United States.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: Now, in the direction of this argument of the writers,
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: in parentheses, Trump's exit from the press also led to
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: the deterioration of the spiritual frequency of speech and radical
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: principles came to power. However, the exit from Berjom made
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: Iran closer to being established and we know that this
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: was not for the benefit of Israel and the United States.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: The same military interventions and the last wars were analyzed
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: in the same square, which with the formation of the regime,
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: the radical and ideological thinking will reach power in Iran,
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: not the thinking that is looking for cooperation. The long-term
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: balance of the U.S. and Iran's differences does not take
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: them away overnight, but certainly the policy of supporting the Israeli.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: Lobby, i.e.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: The military's direct intervention, is much better. The historical experience
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: shows that the military's direct intervention has been defeated for
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: a long time and the continuation of this policy ends
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: with the loss of the U.S.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: And even Israel.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: According to the Offshore Balancing Act, instead of the United
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: States turning itself into a threat to the region, it
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: must use the threat of Iran's authority to form a
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: conflict between the region countries against Tehran. We must make
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: sure that Iran turns into a threat to the region,
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: not the United States, so that all the regional nations
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: stay with us and protect us for the sake of Iran.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: We also need the cooperation of these countries to.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: Influence the sanctions.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: The goal of sanctions is Iran's talent, not the poverty
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: of the people of Iran and the change of the regime.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: But if we think.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: About the direct intervention of the regime and the change
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: of the regime and the establishment of a government, we
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: will lose the cooperation of the countries of the region
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: and the people of Iran will be defeated by the
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: government and the Tundras will gain power.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: Thank you very much.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: And the effort to overthrow the Bashar al-Assad government in
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: Syria and the Islamic Republic in Iran and the Syria's
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: concern about the high-ranking officials and the security concerns of Iran.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: In this way, the motivation of Iran and Syria in
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: support of Hezbollah and Lebanon decreases and they go to search.
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: America must stay in the war of the Syrian government
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: with the terrorists next to Syria and suppress new terrorist
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: groups such as ISIS. The national interests of the United
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: States should not play the role of Israel and the
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: lobby of Israel. Let me give this explanation that the
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: book was written in 2007, days after the Iraq war
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: and the U.S.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: Invasion.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: But Israel is on the way of balancing the long
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: way or offshore balancing. Today is the time of writing
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: a book. It has been about 60 years since the
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: establishment of Israel. Almost all countries in the world recognize
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: Israel as official. Despite the high level of political and
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: economic corruption, Israel is one of the richest countries in
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: the world. It has the most powerful army in the
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: region and only the nuclear power of the Middle East
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: is considered. It is time for the United States to
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: act with Israel like a normal country. In the same way,
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: the benefit of Israel is that it is like a
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: child who is taken from his mother's milk and is
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: deprived of the special economic and military assistance of.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: The United States to stay on his own feet.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: The time has come for Israel, instead of following the
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: constant hostility and threatening to violate its neighbors, to establish
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: real peace relations from the point of power. The United
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: States must, in the same way as in relations with Mexico,
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: Thailand and France, follow its own interests, in the case
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: of Israel, follow its own national interests, so that China
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: and other rival powers will not be left behind. The
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: writers of the book repeatedly emphasize that this is a
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: big lie that the Israeli lobby has overcome, that the
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: national interests of America and Israel are one.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: Just as.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: The national interests of America are different from Mexico, Thailand
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: and France, the interests of America and Israel are never one.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: Israel is free and free to do whatever it wants.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: But America's job is not to destroy the idealistic and
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: last-minute flights of Israel. And to stay with Israel under
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: any circumstances. Israel's leaders must know that there is no
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: difference between us and Israel and other countries. And America
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: can cooperate with Israel and stay with Israel for its
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: own benefit.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: And sometimes it can oppose.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: And this opposition does not mean Judaism or betrayal of Israel.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: According to the long-term balance, the United States and Israel
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: continue these relations with a focus on common interests, close
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: relations of culture, family, trade, economy and politics. And they
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: continue these relations against common threats such as terrorism, intelligence,
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: military and strategic cooperation. But there is no reason for
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: the American people's finances to be spent on ideological claims
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: and Israel's last-minute negotiations. Just as the United States has
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: interests in relation to Israel, in relation to other countries
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: in the Middle East, it also has other interests that
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: should not be sacrificed.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: To Israel.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: One of these interests is ending Israel and Palestine's long-term claims.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: We have previously said that the work of the two
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: Arab parties has reached an important conclusion, which is that
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: terrorism and Americanism in the region have a role in
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: the fight for Palestine-Israel. The United States must firmly declare
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: its permanent position that Israel must withdraw from all occupied
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: territories after the war of 1967 and the Syrian front lines.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: Now I say this in parentheses, later Trump under the
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: influence of the Israeli lobby did the opposite of this
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: and recognized the Jolan Heights as the capital.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: Of Israel.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: With the end of the occupation of the Jolan Heights,
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: Syria will not have any reason to continue its hostility
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: to Israel.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: And its alliance with Iran.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: Thus, the relationship between Iran and groups such as Hezbollah, Lebanon, Hamas,
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: and the Islamic Jihad of Palestine will end And these
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: groups are getting worse. Rather, the people of the region
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: see them as a conflict of peace, not the eyes
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: of the hero. At that time, Bashar Assad had not
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: yet fallen in Syria.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: Israel is determined.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: To accept or reject peace with Palestine. To accept or
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: reject peace with Syria and the rest of the Joulan mountains.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: But in any case, the interests of the United States
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: should not be the victims of Israeli decisions and cause
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: the bad reputation of the United States and the hatred
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: of the people of the region from the United States
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: and the land of the United States and the rise
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: of terrorist groups and extremism and endanger.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: The national security of the United States.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: The United States' decision to establish peace with the Palestinians
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: in Israel is not logical at all Ifrati and Yehud
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: citizen are not. Incidentally, the considerations also show that the
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: general opinion of the American people is supported by the
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: president to result in peace talks and to be more
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: difficult for Israel, not to surrender the high-altitude flights of
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: Israel and the Israeli lobby and sacrifice the security of
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: the United States to the endless claims of Israel and Palestine. Today, everyone,
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: except for the Israeli supporters and the Israeli lobby, are
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: finding that the denial of the Palestinian rights is not
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: a threat to the security of Israel. And those who,
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: on the basis of the unconstitutional support and conditions of
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: the United States from Israel, are pouring gasoline into the
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: fire of extremism and incitement, and arresting the United States
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: in this mess. This mountainous, mountainous, and dangerous policy of
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: the United States must be replaced with a different and
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: dangerous path. These extroverted policies under the control of the
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: Israeli lobby have not caused the security of Israel.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: Incidentally, today Israel is more than past in a danger
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: and insecurity.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: Groups such as Hamas, Hezbollah, and countries such as Iran, Syria,
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: Bashar Assad And many of the neighboring countries support the
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: destruction of Israel. And the regional community is also moving
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: towards the destruction of Israel.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: Now, if the United.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: States solves the problems of the past wrong policies, and
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: this region becomes prosperous and safe, the answer to this
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: question has nothing to do with us Americans. The people
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: of this region must answer this question themselves.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: The advance of.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: Each region is in the will and consciousness of the
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: people of that region. You should not imagine that the
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: intervention of the United States can solve the problems of
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: the Middle East and force them.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: To do so. The United States should not only spoil
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: the situation.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: The United States is enough to be the source of
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: misfortune and insecurity of the region. Now, certainly, the normal
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: relationship between America and Israel is decreasing in the Middle
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: East and preventing the exchange of capital and trust between
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: America and regional countries and improving the location and image
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: of America in the Middle East. And with the reduction
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: of security barriers, the land is preparing for cultural and
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: economic development and reforms that the countries of this region
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: are difficult to make these reforms and.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: They need advance.
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: The last chapter of the book.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: What do we do with the Israeli lobby?
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: Mershimer and Walt. Four ways to control. The destructive role
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: of the Israeli lobby.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: They say.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: But they themselves say. That three of these four ways.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: In actual conditions, it is difficult or impossible. The first
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: way is to reduce Israel's financial resources. But legally, every
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: American has the right to spend money on his own
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: projects and to prevent these help with freedom of expression.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: While the supporters of Israel are making such an effort
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: on the basis of Judaism. definitely stopping such efforts on
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: the basis of Judaism. The second way is to set
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: up rival lobbies such as Arab, Iranian and Palestinian lobbies.
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: But Muslim, Arab and Persian groups living in America In
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: comparison with the Israeli lobby, they have a weaker organization
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: and very few financial resources.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: The third way is.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: To reform the Israeli lobby from the inside. This is
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: to take power from the average parts of the Israeli
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: lobby and to destroy the Israeli government. Signs of this
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: reform can be seen. Forms such as the Israeli Policy Forum,
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: or Americans for Peace Now, and the sounds of Jewish
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: criticism in Europe and Australia are from this group. But
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: these are still in the minority. In addition, there are Christian-Sahyanist, i.e. evangelicals,
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: who are fundamentally orthodox.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: Why?
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: Because according to their last and final beliefs, the Middle
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: East must be in war so that the prophecies of
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: the Bible can be fulfilled. The Jews of America also
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: understand that the Christian Zionists are not good allies and
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: should not enter the.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: Field with them alone. But the fourth way and.
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: The most hopeful way, as the writers said, It is
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: the creation of a free and open discourse about Israel
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: and Palestine. According to this path, the oral traditions about Israel.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: Must be true and false.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: It must be rejected in the academic and academic space
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: of the Israeli lobbyist policies and the Israeli supporters must
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: be promised to respond. Most of the American people are
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: under the influence of the ruling.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: Government, which is the leader of the Israeli.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: Lobby, from the crimes committed by Israel and the disasters
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: that have come upon the Palestinian people.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: The American.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: People consider the state of Israel to be moderate, democratic
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: and oppressed, but they consider the resistance of the Palestinian
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: people to be a brutal, oppressive and brutal resistance. Under
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: the influence of Israeli lobby propaganda, the Americans consider defending
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: the Palestinians from their homes and families to be the
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: continuation of the historical Judaism and Holocaust crimes. The Americans
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: do not understand the reason for the Palestinians' protest. They
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: are willing to use Judaism and terrorism to ease their
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: conscience and suppress the Palestinians to defend Israel's legitimate government.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: The people of America are not against the difference between
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: Al-Qaeda terrorism and the Palestinian uprising, where children and women
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: fight against Israeli armed soldiers with wood and stone. According
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: to Mearsheimer and Wald, universities are for several reasons the
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: best place to confront Israeli lobbyist policies.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: Why?
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: First of all, the stages of growth and development in
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: the establishment of American universities are such that the Israeli
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: lobby has no influence on the universities. The attraction of
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: teachers and students in the centers of American science has
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: a clear and defined structure that is not under the
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: control of the Israeli lobby. Secondly, many of the scholars
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: and professors of American universities are international, that is, they
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: have come from different nations and are less affected by
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: the media and the Israeli lobby in the United States.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: And some of those who have come to the United States.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: Are actually aware.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: Thirdly, in the scientific environment, it is possible to do effective,
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: serious and long-term work and expanded the media with the
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: help of the media to the level of society and
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: public opinion. The American people have a positive view of universities,
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: and they trust more than politicians. In such an atmosphere,
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: the American people are confronted with the historical realities of
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: Palestine and Israel, and they criticize that, for example, the
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: Day of Establishment of Israel is really the day of
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: independence and freedom that they have to celebrate, or as
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: the Palestinians call it, the day of blackness and darkness.
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: Now I would like to say this in parentheses.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: The recent events in the.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: American universities and the demonstrations of students in support of
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: the Palestinian people and Gaza show that the writers of
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: the book had a very intelligent interpretation 20 years ago
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: and their perspective has also come out of the water.
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: Maybe the only hope of the start of the change
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: of American policies is the protests of the students. If
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: these protests, like the protests against the Vietnam War, are
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: carried out inside the American society, the speech of the
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: ruler of the Israeli lobby will be faced with serious dangers.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: It is for this reason that the support of the
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: Israeli lobby is severely abused by these students and the
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: teachers and managers of the universities. And the interesting thing
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: is that these days, the most important supporter and the
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: most prominent student tribune is Mr. John Mershimer, who has
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: released the flag of confrontation with the Israeli lobby. Mershimer's
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: speech is very influential and has a great impact on
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: free media and public opinion. Of course, this is a
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: very dangerous situation for Mershimer. The Israeli supporters' media They
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: introduce him as the leader of the Jewish Citizens and
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: the United Hamas and Islamic Republic of Iran to take
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: advantage of his influence with these lies and lies. In fact,
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: Mersheimer is opposed to Israeli policies and radicals because he
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: considers them to be the harm of America, the Middle
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: East and even Israel. But the criticism on the book
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: of the Israeli lobby, a book with this clarity and wariness,
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: is natural that the enemies of Qasem Korda also have it.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: We will mention two main criticisms. The first criticism is
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: the accusation of Judaism. Alan Dershowitz, professor of law at
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: Harvard University and also ADL, They read the book of
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: the new Jewish citizen, the book.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: Of the Israeli lobby.
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: Their argument is that Mersheimer and Walt say that a
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: small group of Jews with their own money and influence
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: have taken the foreign policy of the United States against
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: the national interests to the wrong path.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: Coincidentally, the narration.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: Of this book of the Israeli lobby is of the
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: same kind as the old Jewish citizen cliches, only in
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: academic literature. The writers reply first that the claim that
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: the Israeli lobby is only Jewish is incorrect. Mersheimer and
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: Wald show throughout the book that the most powerful parts
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: of this lobby are actually non-Jewish. For example, the Christians
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: of the Evangelical Zionists, the conservatives like Cheney and Rumsfeld,
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: the right-wing journalists. Secondly, Ketab az toteh-e makhfi harf ne mizan-e.
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: Az amalkerd-e ashkar-e yek guruh-e zinofuz dar yek nizam-e liberal
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: dar-e harf mizan-e. Masalan wakti labi-e naft naqd mish-e, kasi
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: faryad-e naft setizi sar ne mide-e.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: Ke shuma migid yahud setizi. Chara wakti pa-e.
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: Esra'il be miyon miyad, avvalin-o akharin harbe bar chasp-e yahud setizi-e.
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: According to the writers, this accusation is not a scientific
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: criticism but a political accusation to deny the issue of
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: the Israeli lobby criticism. The second criticism is the recognition
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: of the opposition in the lobby. Robert Kuhain, a professor
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: at Princeton University, says that the book from the point
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: of view of science is two or three relative mistakes.
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: For example, Mearsheimer and Waltz, in the analysis of events
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: such as the attack on Iraq, fill the role of
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: the Israeli lobby. Other important factors such as oil, terrorism,
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: the motivation of democracy in Iraq and also the misinformation
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: mistake are ignored. According to Kuhain, the attack on Iraq
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: had decades, but the writers of the Israeli lobby only
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: one factor. They pulled the lobby out of all of
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: them and put everything on the neck of the Israeli lobby.
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: This work is considered a relatively wrong in terms.
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: Of science.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: Merzheimer's answer is that we never said anything. lobby was
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: the only reason Our discussion is that the Israeli lobby
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: is a necessary condition for understanding We clearly show that
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: the representatives of the same right with the Israeli lobby
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: in the rooms of thought, media and congress They made
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: a public announcement of the whole situation. They repeated the
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: intelligence reports of the terrorist groups about the Iraqi armed
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: forces like Bolangu.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: Everyone opposed.
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: From the Pentagon generals to the European Union, the weakening
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: of terrorism became a burden. The Israeli lobbyist both relieved
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: Hizoum and pulled Kibrit. Without this constant pressure, the Bush
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: administration could not, with the presence of the opposition of
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: the U.S. intelligence community and the opposition of the global
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: public opinion, enter this family war with such speed.
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: The last word.
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: Mersheimer and Walt in the last pages summarize the message
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: of the book. The interests of America and Israel have
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: never been one and are not. Israel has probably acted
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: in confrontation with the interests and values of America. The
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: Israeli lobby, with its widespread influence, has prevented America from
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: concentrating on its national interests in the Middle East and
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: advancing a logical and rational policy. The activities of this
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: lobby were both for the United States, for Israel and
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: for the people of the Middle East. The support of
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: Israel's eyes is a defeated and expensive policy. The U.S.-Citizen wave,
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: the September 11 attacks and the unreachable wars of the
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: Middle East that thousands of American soldiers and billions of
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: dollars of the country's capital have lost, All of this
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: was the result of the direct influence of the Israeli
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: lobby and the policy of support for the Kurds from Israel.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: If the United States does not reform its path, it
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: will lose its position in the face of new powers
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: such as China. The way to save the United States
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: is to break the false narrative of the Israeli lobby.
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: Until this false narrative is revealed to the general public,
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: The foreign policy of the U.S.
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: Is still a prisoner of confusion.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: The supporters of this narrative struggle are university graduates. They
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: can break this barrier with the defeat of the tradition
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: and build a path for a policy of corruption in
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: the name of Israel, Palestine and the Middle East.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: Thank you for your attention and support.
• 42:36
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• 42:40
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• 43:41
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• 43:52
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• 43:55
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• 43:58
  Speaker 2: Armagan Avord.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: Thank you. God bless you.