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Hidden Struggles: View From the Street on Disability Awareness · The Discussion Podcast

0:00
This is the Late Late Lunch Show with Rod Maxwell.
0:03
Now on the line, as is a Monday, is our resident reporter, view from the streets
0:09
correspondent, Mr. James Spencer. James, what about you?
0:12
Yeah, speaking of people I've known for years, I've known you five and a half
0:15
years. Is it that long now?
0:19
April 21. Wow, wow, wow, wow. Next month will be five and a half years.
0:24
Wow, that's, time flies, isn't it? Now, we're on series, is it series six that I say?
0:33
And episode, season six, sorry, and episode 18 of View from the Street.
0:40
And over the last two weeks, the topic today is about disability.
0:44
And often it's about hidden disability. And last two weeks ago,
0:48
we did the topic about homelessness, people on the streets. And it feels like
0:52
we're in a cycle now where we're talking about disability,
0:55
community and societal challenges in modern society, James.
1:00
Exactly. So if you have like a TV series and we see how each episode,
1:04
like a documentary almost, links with each other, we're now investigating or
1:10
at least looking into something that might affect, well, it doesn't affect everybody,
1:16
unless people who don't have a disability know people that do have disabilities.
1:19
But it's about disability rights and disability awareness to know if it's something
1:23
that people know enough about.
1:24
And is it getting the attention and support that it deserves.
1:28
And in some ways, a bit like the homeless topic two weeks ago.
1:35
The topic and definition of disability has become more complicated, has become more varied,
1:43
and so it's probably moved from what people might have traditionally thought,
1:47
especially in the 70s and 80s, to being more around almost invisible disabilities,
1:54
which we talk a lot about today in the package.
1:56
Exactly. Because I think that, well, as you said, in the 21st century,
2:01
it's almost like the rise of hidden disabilities, especially with social media and mental health.
2:06
So I think social media has been able to promote awareness on things like depression
2:11
or ADHD or autism and the rise of the internet.
2:14
But I think also the world has got more fast or more chaotic,
2:18
which means that, well, I think maybe there's more diagnoses now than before
2:22
on the diagnosis pathway, but I think that it's more common than people think
2:26
in terms of autism and also ADHD.
2:30
Probably depression too.
2:31
Yeah, and I mean, we're going to talk about it, so we don't want to get into
2:34
too much detail, but my takeaway today was that...
2:40
We have in this was a topic and then also the topic two weeks ago around homelessness
2:46
is a topic that actually people can connect with very quickly james
2:50
today it did yeah i mean i was quite surprised with based on the four box pops
2:56
and as the maybe there was five or six people we spoke to had we done maybe
2:59
more like a couple more eight would we,
3:02
would we have had a few people that didn't know potentially but it still shows
3:06
that everyone we spoke to and probably the majority seem to be connected and
3:11
clued up with it, which is good, even though I need to be completely frank.
3:15
And that is that when I did my autism major project for Salford Uni in 2020
3:19
and 2021 for undergrad and for masters, they were telling me things and I didn't
3:23
really grasp them. But that's when I interviewed autism experts and people on the autism spectrum.
3:27
It's only recently in the last year that I've seen exactly what they've said
3:30
and experienced it firsthand.
3:32
So I think that it's a learning development. So it's probably for you, you can probably.
3:38
The more the longer you have the disability the more you know about it yeah,
3:43
that is absolutely right and and you know i i don't think anybody can really
3:50
tell you how to live with it,
3:56
if that makes sense in terms of you you almost have to,
4:01
learn that and,
4:05
i i i sometimes wonder should i I have done more research for some of the world.
4:11
I'll be honest with you, I was worried about researching because I didn't want
4:16
to know too much because I didn't want to necessarily face it.
4:20
But the other thing about it is.
4:22
Disability, I think, is, you cannot define it very simplistically, James.
4:29
I don't think, anyway, because even somebody who's had the same core illness,
4:37
which is the disability, the disability can materialize in different ways, really.
4:43
I completely agree, because I think, so what you're saying is that it's personalized for that person.
4:47
So if other people try and tell you how to live your life, which is an organization,
4:50
a charity, a company, or somebody you live with, or a family member,
4:55
it's like, well, hang on a minute,
4:57
it's your brain. You're the one living with a disability, not them.
5:00
So you know what's best for you. And in fact, to link that into me,
5:03
I keep my phone off, for example, to build a day.
5:06
And I've even done it in the last few days, whereby I've gone on the phone straight
5:09
away after waking up in the morning, and I'm completely disorientated,
5:11
everything's scattered, I don't know what's going on.
5:13
But then if I actually leave my phone off, build the day, do everything I need
5:16
to do, and then turn the phone on preferably as late as possible,
5:19
or even not at all, it doesn't disorientate me and I'll actually know what I'm doing.
5:23
You know, actually, when I was in the hospital, I've mentioned this before on
5:27
there, that they talked about these things being strategies.
5:32
And that language at the time, back in 2016, did not link to me because I thought
5:38
strategy was about business.
5:39
But I think the key thing about that is The way you deal with your disability
5:44
can be very specific and customised to you.
5:49
And you work out ways of dealing with it.
5:53
You sort of, you create these workarounds and they might be very specific to
5:58
you. Anyway, I think we should run the package because I think we're almost
6:02
getting into the... So today...
6:04
Yeah, because we could talk for hours about this and we'll definitely have more
6:07
of this on Wednesday's Mayday Lunch Show. We will.
6:10
We're going to run this across the week. So today we're calling it Disability
6:14
Rights Awareness on Fee from the Street. This is the Late Late Lunch Show with
6:19
Rod Maxwell. Hey, good afternoon, Rod. How are you doing? I'm good, and how are you?
6:23
Not too bad, thank you. Surviving. Did we do this last week? I can't remember.
6:27
We didn't do it last week, because last week was Bank Holiday Monday.
6:30
Of course, yes. But the week before, we did it on homelessness,
6:33
didn't we? We did, Rod. We did.
6:35
And that turned out to be a whole week of shows on that topic for me.
6:39
Yeah. And quite, quite enlightening.
6:42
Yes. And this week, you've got a whole list of topics too.
6:45
Yes, so we're going to be doing disability. Yeah, so that's going to be on Monday,
6:49
Wednesday, Friday. And today we're going to do it for View From The Street.
6:52
We're going to do disability awareness.
6:54
And we've even got a phone call plugged in tomorrow for Zoom,
6:57
which will be a part of your Wednesday show.
6:59
There you go. You've got me all sorted out, James. You're ahead of me.
7:02
And it's my birthday on Thursday. Ah, very good. 35, I'll be.
7:06
35. I'll be 56 in the middle of September.
7:11
Next week. The 18th. The 18th. Friday next week.
7:15
Is that Friday? Oh, well, I'll be somewhere else anyway, but there you go.
7:19
11 days, Rod, you have left of being 54.
7:22
You have to be the most of it. 55, James. Oh, but you're 54.
7:25
Oh, you're 55 now. Yeah, the day Jimi Hendrix died, I was born.
7:30
So I am Jimmy Incarnate. Right, so you've got to make the worst of your last
7:34
11 days, Rod, of being 55. You make it sound like my last 11 days of being alive.
7:40
No, it's not that bad. That was when I was 50. 60's the one I'm dreading. Okay.
7:47
Right, okay. So how do you feel? Do you feel any different? No,
7:50
I have never felt any different, to be honest with you.
7:53
So, no, I feel like I probably just become even less responsible,
7:59
slightly more crazy and understand the world even less james so you go and talking
8:05
about disability rights obviously i have a disability which is my autism and
8:08
dyslexia and being slow processing,
8:10
a higher rate of anxiety attached to that and maybe like i said short-term memory
8:15
loss forgetting things because of the stress,
8:17
you have a disability too but you're short-term memory,
8:19
i have i guess my disability is primarily memory loss due to the brain tumor
8:25
which is the reason I don't work and it's spiraling to other things but primarily,
8:29
it is that and you know for you and I we're probably defined as high functioning disabled yeah,
8:36
I I haven't really ever been comfortable with a tag disabled James,
8:41
I don't see me myself as disabled but lots of other people do see me that way
8:46
yeah I would actually say,
8:49
mental difficulty or mental learning disability or difficulty,
8:54
for this, or basically slow processing or.
8:58
In needing of reasonable adjustments because we have much lower capacity and
9:01
capability than people with a fully-fledged brain that could do a million things in a day.
9:05
Yeah, and therefore, that is a disability. And I don't know whether I'm in the
9:10
wrong not to recognize it.
9:13
I always try to fight against it, if I'm honest. I try to blank it out.
9:16
But it is a disability. But there are those that are much more severe in a way
9:22
and those that are much more obvious.
9:25
And i think really the question today is we as a society are we more tolerant
9:30
are we more forgiving or do we make enough take enough make enough compensation
9:37
for those people who are disabled yeah those are the massive questions are people aware of,
9:42
i think the single ones are people aware that people what disabilities are out
9:46
there are they accepting of them like you said
9:49
are they aware of the equality at the 20th equality because that's legal legislation
9:52
which protects people with disabilities and then arising from that are they
9:55
aware that under section 26 there's reasonable adjustments
9:59
and then some people don't know what reasonable adjustments are so a reasonable
10:01
adjustment means that if you can't do these telephone calls to the dentist or
10:04
the doctors can you just send an email and
10:06
just say look this is rod can you do a video call to discuss my my communication
10:11
issues this is my way of communicating over video or face to face
10:14
and can we do an advanced noticed appointment and then hopefully someone will
10:17
just say look this is bob what day and time work for you rather than the neurotypical
10:21
systems which are created by neurotypicals.
10:24
I love it when you say neurotypical, because it makes us feel like we are a
10:29
different species almost, doesn't it? Well, we are neurodivergent.
10:32
We are neurodivergent. We think on a different wavelength. I feel like going
10:35
nano-nano to you or something.
10:38
But I think this is an important thing. It's about tolerance.
10:41
It's about understanding.
10:42
And it's about understanding and awareness. And my gut feeling is that actually
10:48
we're less tolerant as a society.
10:50
And we were talking this morning, weren't we, just before we met up about 10
10:52
minutes, 15 minutes ago about structure and routine.
10:55
And your structure and routine is, well, you tell us what your routine is.
10:58
Well, I am a slave to my routine, you know, in terms of waking up,
11:03
breakfasting at the same time, walking the dog, doing the radio shows in the afternoon.
11:09
That gives me structure.
11:11
And I need that structure. But I realized my whole life was always structured.
11:16
So to not have it, and I don't know if that means I'm a disability,
11:19
or it's just habitual well i don't want to speak for you but i don't want
11:23
what happens normally if that breaks so if the routine breaks you feel lost
11:27
you feel cloudy you feel foggy you feel overwhelmed and anxious and you don't
11:31
know what's going on and you just feel completely disorientated destabilized and and and
11:36
your mental load tips over as well.
11:40
You know so your ability to deal with multiple things coming in at you i find
11:45
with my memory loss is is more difficult Well, that's what we need to promote awareness on.
11:49
And that's why, I don't know how long this intro is, but this is what we're
11:53
going to delve into today because what we need is to know are people accepting
11:57
and understanding and are they willing to have the time, give the time towards those accommodations?
12:03
Yeah, I think I'll say it in a nutshell.
12:05
Let's go and find out what the people of Alty think. Let's do it.
12:08
So today on View from the Street and Radio Alty, we're asking people about disability
12:12
awareness and really disability alliance.
12:15
Do you think as a society, we're more understanding about what disability is?
12:20
We make alliances for it and we're more forgiving, if you like?
12:24
Some people are aware, but not enough people are aware. Not everyone treats
12:27
people with respect, especially if they have hidden disabilities,
12:31
which honestly, I think we need to know more about it as a society anyways.
12:35
And do you think that people define it quite narrowly in terms of if it's physical
12:39
as opposed to maybe a mental illness, for example?
12:42
Sorry, can you repeat the question? Well, I was just wondering whether people
12:45
always assume that it's about physical handicap, disablement,
12:49
as opposed to maybe mental disablement, like depression or autism, for example.
12:55
Yeah, I definitely think like mental illnesses are taken less seriously.
12:59
Like some people even make fun of some of them, for example, depression.
13:01
And they're just not as understanding as they should be.
13:04
That's brilliant thank you very much thank you this is the late late lunch show
13:09
with rod maxwell so uh good afternoon today on view from the street on radio
13:13
waltz we're asking people about disability awareness and you know,
13:18
do we think as a society we're more forgiving we're more understanding and you
13:23
and i were talking about hidden disabilities and because for a lot of people
13:27
they they wouldn't understand that,
13:29
you've got some experience of of of that yes definitely so my little sister she has autism and adhd.
13:38
And i think often they are the ones that go,
13:41
less spoken about and they're less understood because,
13:45
although they're not physically disabled i think it can still hinder them in
13:49
many ways that we still don't understand yeah and and and you can mask it and
13:54
you can sometimes people think that there's nothing wrong with you,
13:58
and then the understanding's not there the the.
14:02
The things you need in order to be able to operate to be to live i agree even
14:06
just like in every day say you're in a cafe or,
14:10
just somewhere public and she gets overstimulated quite easily I think to the
14:15
someone who doesn't understand she just looked like she's having a meltdown
14:19
she looks younger than she is I think often,
14:22
whereas when you understand I think that's what needs to be taught more
14:27
and I can imagine and I'm speaking for you but you can tell me if it's true
14:30
when she was younger and I don't know what is she is but people probably thought
14:34
naughty child definitely I think
14:37
often she comes across quite spoiled if something doesn't go her way that's not necessarily her.
14:44
Being upset about that it's if it's not right in her head then that's when the
14:48
meltdown happens has has this experience made you more aware
14:54
of hidden disability if you like yeah definitely I think when I was also growing
14:59
up with her obviously she is younger than me but I always thought oh she's getting
15:03
away with stuff that I can't get away with she's not getting in trouble when I do,
15:08
but I think as I've got older I've come to understand it a lot better,
15:12
and would you say as a country we have a bit more compassion now for disability generally,
15:19
I do think so yeah definitely I think there's a lot more awareness of it because
15:23
of social media it's taught more in school which I always really think is good like especially,
15:29
having those extra helping hands in schools is always really helpful thank you very much indeed.
15:37
Okay good afternoon my name is jay spencer on view from the street rob maxwell,
15:40
and on radio all t so today we're doing disability awareness i just wanted to
15:43
know from you if there's knowledge and acceptance of disability in society today,
15:48
I think there's more scientific research that's gone into it more than there has been in the past.
15:53
But I think actual acceptance, like culturally, I think it's definitely,
15:57
there's a lot of prejudices and a lot of almost mockery for people that have certain disabilities.
16:04
Okay. And if you had to promote awareness, what do you think they need to have
16:09
more of in terms of support?
16:10
I think it definitely starts with the education system and kind of drilling it up,
16:16
you know, putting it in minds in a young age I think makes a difference do you,
16:21
do you think people are predisposed to think of disability as being a physical
16:25
thing and you know we're the same sort of generation do you think that's because
16:29
we grew up thinking about physical disabilities
16:31
and not thinking about sort of mental illness if you like yeah I mean I think there is more awareness
16:37
I'm in education that's my profession
16:40
and I would say that you know particularly in,
16:43
in schools there's been an increased awareness and also more sort of assessment
16:48
so that you know educationally we we are you know coming to your point really
16:52
about is there more awareness in schools I would say historically my generation was that,
16:58
you assumed disability was a physical.
17:02
As time's gone on and I know several friends and it's it's sort of autism or
17:08
it's sort of Alzheimer's and actually,
17:11
people still haven't got enough information or they're not as aware.
17:16
An example, if that's all right, I'm waffling a little bit, is I have a friend
17:20
whose husband's got early onset dementia and.
17:24
And she finds it really difficult in some settings, say, for example,
17:30
when he's eating, that people look over as though, actually,
17:33
what's wrong with that guy?
17:35
His badge helps, but she said still things like toilets and accessibility,
17:42
it's still a challenge for her.
17:43
Can I ask you, in the education setting, I don't know if you're primary or secondary.
17:47
So do you have special educational needs coordinators or do you support in the
17:52
classroom, for example?
17:53
Yes. So we've got, obviously we've got a SENCO who is in charge of the kind
17:58
of strategy for that. And also then we've got TAs that are in the school.
18:03
It all depends really on the need of the student. So whether they've got an
18:07
EHCP, which is, you know, obviously the healthcare plan that we have that support.
18:14
Funding is difficult for that and the assessment for that is difficult.
18:17
So often we get students who are on a pathway, but they haven't got that.
18:22
So then you haven't then got the TA support in schools. So good afternoon, madam.
18:28
Today on View from the Street on Radio Volte, we're talking about disability,
18:32
awareness. And you and I have just been chatting quite a bit.
18:35
Do you think we as a society are more aware and more tolerant of disability these days?
18:43
Yes, I do think we are definitely more aware.
18:47
Also more tolerant, but we're not doing much else about it,
18:53
to help, particularly with people with physical disabilities,
18:59
you know, more ramps, easier access to public transport.
19:05
But for hidden disabilities, I don't know what we can do about that.
19:11
I remember being a pupil at primary school and doing a poster,
19:16
and it was all about ramps and it was all about even traffic lights with with
19:21
speech so that people with physical disabilities
19:25
could be could be helped and back in those days that didn't exist as you just
19:30
rightly said now we're into a whole,
19:32
different definition of disability and a lot of it's hidden a lot of it is neuro
19:37
or psychological and we've got a bit of catching up to do do you think about,
19:43
understanding that yeah,
19:46
there are ways that we've been able to help like in airports for example you
19:52
know with a lanyard if you have an unseen,
19:57
disability I can't remember what you call it hidden yeah yeah.
20:04
And say public places like hospitals, doctor surgeries, I presume dental,
20:11
please let us know if you have.
20:14
And then it goes on into detail.
20:16
And some places offer what they call a quiet room, I've seen.
20:22
Yeah. For those who are noise sensitive, for example. Yeah.
20:28
Or just anxious about sitting with a group of people. Yeah.
20:33
Can I ask you a very straight question around this? I've got a question.
20:38
With SENCOs, for example, and bringing together special educational needs pupils
20:43
as well as pupils who are not,
20:46
do you think that it fundamentally works theoretically or in principle,
20:51
or is it a cheaper way of providing educational provision to children with special educational needs?
20:58
That's a good one. we need access and i think as much as students can being in,
21:03
a setting you know state education not a sort of special provision it's really
21:08
important yes it depends on the level of need obviously there are schools that
21:13
are sort of directed and you know have that funding and have that special,
21:17
sort of facilities um in a school really what you want is accessibility as much
21:24
as possible you know it's kind of society is made up of many different people
21:28
and obviously what we want to do is,
21:31
embrace i mean i come from that's kind of my my kind of ethos that sort of we
21:36
allow it should be about enabling as much as possible so you take a wider educational
21:40
view and actually those who don't have special education needs can learn from those with
21:45
oh absolutely so it's a win-win in some ways i mean i would say in our school
21:49
our students are brilliant actually in.
21:53
How can i say their kindness i mean one of our school values is kindness and
21:57
it is about the idea of if a student to presents as maybe having different traits
22:03
or different ways of sort of approaching things.
22:05
So that might be autism, where they're kind of socially, they kind of approach things differently.
22:11
Our students actually, through having students in the class,
22:14
are kind of really understanding of that.
22:16
And that, again, starting at that very young age means that then in terms of
22:20
society, you know, when you meet somebody and you meet somebody who might be
22:25
having a challenge, say, for example, they're having really...
22:29
Having a really difficult time in a shop all of a sudden the sensory needs and they're kind of,
22:33
shouting out then actually you're going hold on a minute I think we might know
22:37
that that person might be having more challenges and in the 70s and 80s they
22:41
were just being classed as being naughty naughty.
22:46
Right I don't like we weird that the words would be what's wrong and yeah and
22:51
also we know there's some really wrong words,
22:55
yes you know if you ever watch a program from the 1970s and my daughter's aware
22:59
of this, we watched a program recently where I said, oh my word,
23:03
you can't use those words.
23:05
You're listening to Rod Maxwell on Radio Alty. Can I ask both of you,
23:09
do you think as a society we're going in the right way or are we still,
23:14
is there still a lot of tokenism around disability awareness,
23:17
compensation, if you like?
23:19
Yeah, I'd say that definitely, I mean, for me, actually being in school,
23:25
you know, people that, for example, or headphones, I'd say that's kind of with
23:28
a problem where a lot of people weren't really accepted or it was just perceived,
23:32
as odd or strange or they didn't need them.
23:35
And it's things that people don't understand. They don't understand why.
23:38
Why do they need headphones? Why, you know, because it's to do with sensory
23:42
issues, but people don't know what that is, especially younger.
23:45
People. So I think we, you know, we hear a lot about in school,
23:48
I remember, you know, it'd be a lot about these people are going to be here
23:51
with headphones on, but it's not like, why are they going to be there with those headphones?
23:55
Did you ever have assemblies or anything that kind of, because again,
23:58
that's the balance, isn't it, of awareness, but also bringing attention.
24:02
So it's like, well, what are we doing here? How are we kind of giving students the understanding?
24:07
Because ultimately, I can be honest that as a young person, often if you're
24:11
unsure about something or feel,
24:12
strange, you can be quite cruel we criticize it yeah i think a lot of people
24:18
don't they criticize things they don't understand yeah,
24:20
yeah i think there were assemblies there were you know they weren't assemblies
24:23
they were a little for me there was little like 20 minute powerpoints in the morning i think as.
24:29
Well kind of i think as well because it's the teachers that you know,
24:34
doing those i think maybe that's partially why there was less attention brought
24:38
to it because people hear from teachers all day every day i think maybe if they
24:42
had younger people doing it
24:43
who knew about it or actual people who are affected giving their giving their
24:47
own personal experience exactly like people who are friends with those and you
24:51
know there's people that you you know that you have no clue that they,
24:54
you know are neurodivergent or they have you know certain disabilities so,
24:59
they exhibit differently yeah what i find perplexing though is that if they
25:03
have scm which they didn't have 20 years ago in schools and safeguarding scaffolding and then.
25:08
And where is all this in the adult world because most organizations is just
25:12
phone up, most people don't know how to, can't go for the sensory overload or the music on the phone.
25:16
So why is there no other support systems? Why is it all built by neurotypicals
25:21
for neurotypicals that people who are neurodivergent are struggling to access
25:24
services and lost in the cracks of society?
25:27
I suppose it's assuming as an adult or people around you, your network,
25:31
if they recognize there's something that,
25:34
you're having challenges with. They're probably saying, well,
25:36
you have to go down a route of getting diagnosis in schools.
25:40
There's obviously the teachers have to, or parents have to contact the school
25:45
and say, look, we're noticing things.
25:47
And then there's a really long sort of diagnosis process. There's also a backlog
25:51
on that as well. It's like really long to get a diagnosis for autism or.
25:57
So in summary, would you say we've progressed, but we've got a long way to go?
26:02
Yeah, I'd say we've progressed.
26:04
If I think about my lifespan and schools as well, and also in education as well
26:10
in my career, I'm 32 years in now.
26:13
So from the beginning to where we are now, there's definitely,
26:19
we start school with, that's our focus.
26:22
And obviously there's a big focus in terms of government sort of initiatives,
26:25
ensuring that SEN students are getting all the things that they need.
26:30
So obviously they've all got passports, student passports, where you have to look at the detail.
26:36
And so you have to ensure that each student has that.
26:40
Moving on to the adult world, I suppose what you're doing is you're giving those
26:45
young people the strategies then to deal with the adult world.
26:49
But there's still going to be challenges, aren't there? Thank you very much, Cindy.
26:54
You're listening to Rod Maxwell on Radio Alty. Do you think it's our social
26:58
responsibility to be more aware, to make allowances?
27:02
Because we're talking about people who are human, who have thoughts,
27:05
feelings, emotions, and we should be more prepared to help them, do you think?
27:12
Yes, but a lot of people now, most people now, have got their own problems,
27:19
their own worries when they're out and about shopping, example like today.
27:24
You're more concerned about you and what you're doing.
27:30
But if you came across somebody who needed help, and you read about it so often,
27:37
the public will rush to and help.
27:40
So you still believe there's enough compassion out there when somebody understands,
27:45
is made aware, they would help? Yes. Yeah.
27:50
That doesn't make the headlines as much as the times when they don't and they walk by.
27:57
You know, it's not headline catching. That's a nice way to leave this,
28:00
actually. There's hope out there. There's compassion.
28:04
We just need to believe it a bit more. Yes. Lovely. Well, thank you.
28:09
That was good. All right, Rod. Yeah, that was good, wasn't it? It was a great episode.
28:13
And I think the topic is one of those that everybody can relate to. Everybody's got a view.
28:19
And we really got a generational perspective on it, I think.
28:24
So, you know, it's a good one, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
28:28
And also, in terms of the Vox Pox that we got, do you think that it was exactly
28:32
what we wanted? Do you think it was what you thought we'd get?
28:35
I think there was a consensus, actually.
28:37
I felt that there was a consensus. And actually, I also felt there was a generational consensus.
28:43
In that, we heard from mothers and daughters, for example, where they were saying almost the same thing.
28:51
There's awareness, but sometimes it needs to go step on from there.
28:56
And I think we heard a lot about hidden disability. People recognizing there
29:00
are hidden disabilities, like autism, ADHD, others. So depressing. Yeah, exactly.
29:08
And they're aware of them, but they recognize also that they are hidden.
29:13
And do you think that it's at the point whereby the adult world can have more,
29:19
reasonable adjustments and support that it has for children in education?
29:23
Because there's definitely a disparity there.
29:25
I think it's a very good topic, actually. Does the adult professional employment
29:30
world need to do more than the education already is?
29:35
If you think about special educational needs and skills, does that need to stretch into employment?
29:44
Maybe that's a Follow-up topic. Yeah. Does the 2010 Equality Act go far enough
29:47
because it exists from 16 years ago, but then there isn't enough in there.
29:54
Because at the moment, from my last job that I had for two years,
29:56
it's going to employment tribunals as a preliminary hearing next week.
29:59
They're backlogged for disability discrimination in manchester by about 18 months
30:04
so let me ask you your view or not because you you've been in the employment
30:08
space with recognized disability.
30:12
Do you think that more needs to be done in the employment space too and can
30:18
it can it work that they make yeah,
30:21
what would be reasonable adjustments do you think it actually works yeah there's
30:25
a lot of negligence and ignorance throughout it so yeah I think that,
30:30
it's making them do it there needs to be more mandatory legal mechanisms that
30:35
mean that it has to be mandatory for them to meet those reasonable adjustments
30:38
because they're in the 20th inequality ads section 20 section 21 but,
30:42
it's about how do you get them to do that because I'm getting problems with
30:44
the dentist and doctors to do things and it's like we shouldn't be such a struggle
30:48
because it's very draining and then you get more autism burnout from that so
30:51
there needs to be an easier way of making them do,
30:55
what you need them to do, because it makes life a lot easier.
30:57
I think I'd like to do a follow-up topic, maybe focusing in the employment space,
31:02
and maybe going to some companies, HR and departments, and asking them, what are they doing?
31:09
How practical is it? How easy is it to make accommodations?
31:14
And it would be very interesting, actually. I can give you one person who would
31:18
probably do an interview with you, Adam Goldman for Auticon,
31:21
because Auticon is one of the biggest ones that does give reasonable adjustment,
31:23
but they need to try and contrast that with one that,
31:26
whereby it's maybe more difficult. This is The Late Late Lunch Show with Rod
31:30
Maxwell. Another great topic and almost, we're almost, even if we're in season
31:36
six, we're almost in a sort of societal agenda really, aren't we?
31:43
That's interesting because I think ever since about season two or three,
31:46
I wanted societal agenda. I always wanted to do that for people in the street.
31:50
So that's living the dream. That's exactly what I like to do, or we like to do.
31:53
Yeah, and what I liked about this topic, and indeed last week's topic,
31:58
was that they're very relatable for people, even if they have massively different views on it, and.
32:07
Come from different angles on it,
32:10
and therefore you can get really good conversations, and it crosses generations quite well.
32:16
It does, and it's such a wide, encompassing topic because you've got physical
32:20
disabilities, mental disabilities, and then, like you said, we've got different
32:24
generations that can talk about it.
32:25
So I think overall it's a solid topic, but it's a very deep topic and it's very
32:30
loaded. So I'm really glad that we're doing it across the whole week.
32:33
So I'm looking forward to the Zoom call tomorrow with Jamie and Dan,
32:36
two of my friends who have disabilities, and you and me. Yeah. You and I, sorry.
32:40
And then we can unpack a little bit more on Wednesday, so it's to be continued sort of thing.
32:45
Yes, indeed. I must admit, I do like these sort of topics that can go across
32:52
several days on the show.
32:54
Do you think there's more compassion out there? No, no, I don't.
32:57
I think that we live in a neurotypical world that's built by neurotypicals,
33:01
and neurotypicals create these systems that they think sue people and they go 100 miles per hour.
33:07
So as soon as you contact somebody or something, like some sort of organization or entity,
33:14
they have to respond to you and they try to do it in an immediate time so it
33:19
rushes your sensory presence it rushes you and they try and rush you to try
33:23
and get it done as soon as possible but they just want to tick a box.
33:26
So, you know, even the police were like that. It's just also about just ticking it off.
33:30
If someone rings, calls them, we just need to get this off the books,
33:34
get it off, get it off. And it's just like, that just rushes someone.
33:37
That doesn't actually help somebody. So most of the time people are rushing things.
33:40
It doesn't help to get to the right resolution. It doesn't help to get a representative
33:45
picture because the world is running at 100 million miles per hour.
33:48
So people need to just slow down a little bit. But don't they ever get done
33:52
if they do that? I don't know. But either way, it's quite anxiety-inducing for
33:57
people with disabilities.
33:58
And, of course, we should say
34:00
that we talked a lot about neurotypical neurodivergence, neurodiversity.
34:06
But there are areas where neurodiverse people can play spectacular roles in
34:14
businesses because they have a different way of analyzing data, for example.
34:21
And therefore they bring a different perspective.
34:23
Oh yeah, for sure. Exactly. Like sometimes some of the, surely there are,
34:28
maybe there are autistic people that create some things in the world. There must be.
34:32
The people who created the COVID vaccine probably are autistic.
34:36
I think Lionel Messi's autistic.
34:37
Like some of the greatest people in history have been autistic or have disability.
34:42
And of course, a lot of that will be hidden, essentially.
34:46
Yeah, well, I think that locks into that whole diagnosis point.
34:49
And some people don't even know they've got autism or Asperger's,
34:53
whatever that could be, as well as the fact that they have problems with the diagnosis.
34:56
Like that lady touched on, the pathways are really long.
34:59
So for poor children, it's a really long pathway.
35:02
And just to...
35:05
When I did one of our packages, it was trying to get...
35:07
Autism diagnosis in women which has got better in the last five or ten years
35:11
but before there was a lot of kind of what's the word discrimination and kind
35:14
of stereotypes that women couldn't have autism when lots of girls can have autism
35:18
so boys present differently they're kind of a bit boisterous and,
35:22
acting up even though that's just the autism represented differently in a boy
35:27
and then girls can be very quiet and shy but can also have their own special
35:30
interests people autism have special interests so mine i'm like obsessed with football,
35:35
obsessed with tennis now I'm autistic for Formula 1 this year.
35:37
They're watching every weekend and stuff. So people that are autistic have very intense passions.
35:42
Maybe yours is Man United in football.
35:46
And maybe the fact that they're not doing well but I'm still as passionate as me is the reason for it.
35:53
Anyway, we're going to have to wrap up. As you say, we're talking to the guys
35:59
and on Wednesday's show we'll be doing more of this. So there you go.
36:03
From one Eurodivergent to another it's a shame we could talk about this for
36:08
hours we could we absolutely could this is the Late Late Lunch Show with Rod Maxwell.