Latest / We Are More: Sisters Talk Faith & Feminism / Ep. 110: Be Not Anxious (LOL)

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Ep. 110: Be Not Anxious (LOL) · We Are More: Sisters Talk Faith & Feminism

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: To the We Are More Pod cast. My name is Alyssa. And my name is Bree. We're two sisters passionate about all things faith and feminism. We believe that Jesus trusted, respected, and encouraged women to teach and preach his word.
• 0:26
  And apparently, that's controversial. Get comfy.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Hello, world. Was just singing a fun song. It wasn't fun.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: I won't sing it now.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: It's rarely fun when she sings a made up song.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: Is anybody else out there like that? Does anybody else just make up little songs?
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Actually, I just finished a book. It was an awful book. I'm not even gonna subject you guys to listening to it. But the main male character throughout the whole book was just, like, singing songs. And I was so confused.
• 1:00
  I was like, who's doing this? I never thought, oh, yeah. My sister does that.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Uh-oh. I'm a lackluster male character in a Yep. Sad romance
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: That's me. It's unfortunate for you. And he was also walking around singing Disney songs. So Oh, crap. I know.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: What was his name?
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: Carter, I think.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: What a great name for a guy like that. Oh my gosh. I'm Carter.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I'm so sorry.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Hi. Welcome to the We Are More podcast. She's Alyssa. I'm Carter, and I'm lackluster.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: And a man. And a man. It really was an awful book. Man. I need do you guys have any book suggestions?
• 1:44
  I should do that as a TikTok soon. I need some something interesting to keep my attention.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Do you wanna read The Last House on Needless Street? No.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: Because you already told me everything that happens in it. Sorry. That's the problem with the two of us. Because we get really excited about our books. And so we'll race into the other person's room and be like, I have to tell you all about this, but also you need to read it.
• 2:09
  And then the other person is like, but now I know the ending. I know everything that happens in that book.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: Okay. Here's the difference between me and you. I come in and tell you, oh, this book was so good. Let me tell you everything about it. And you remember that.
• 2:27
  You come into my room and say, oh, I just read this book. It was so amazing. And it goes in one ear and out the other. I just let you talk. I'm so excited for you too.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: Well, at least you can read my books with fresh eyes.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: I really could.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: To be fair, I don't remember all the books you told me about. But that was one of the first books you read, and it was so bizarre Mhmm. That it just stuck with me.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: I also powered through that in a day and a half.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: You did. You read that one fast.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: It was crazy.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: And every time I talked to you, there was, like, a new update about a cat. So that was exciting. Yeah.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: I like that book, and I recommend it if you like twisty, dark, strange books. I do recommend that book. I also like the thirteenth child.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: I that one I wanna read. It's on the shelf. You did tell me all about that. But see, I forgot about that one. See?
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: In one ear out the other.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: Do you guys find okay. May if you're readers or not, I don't know. But I find reading to be very calming to my nervous system. Just scrolling through TikTok is so stressful right now.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. What a good lead in to
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: Today's topic.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: That's what I was going for.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: But, yes, when I'm scrolling through TikTok, because my algorithm is, especially on my personal TikTok, is so here's what's happening in the news today. Here's what's going on with feminism. Here's what's going on with yada yada yada. It does trigger some anxiety on me. But then I scroll through my Instagram and I get really confused.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: Your Instagram is the wild west.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: My algorithm goes from like, oh, okay. Here's some dental stuff. A new fun way to prep a crown. And then immediately, it's like, here's a recipe for fun TikTok pasta, even though you're not on TikTok. And then there's a man in a kilt, and he's now doing a head handstand.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: That's giving these people a lot of information about you and your life.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: Well, there
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: you go. You are the only person I swear I don't know. Did any of you know that there was, like, a dental TikTok slash Instagram world where they're cleaning teeth on reels? We watched someone who had the most disgusting teeth I've ever seen get their teeth cleaned the other day. Did you know that was a thing?
• 4:58
  Yes. No one else.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: Yes. We all knew. No one else knew that was a thing. Everybody in the dental world knew. And there's also, I encourage you to look up different dental offices because their team makes absolutely hilarious reels and TikToks.
• 5:16
  Just like in the dental world, this is what life is like. And oh, your dentist needs to stop talking. Let's slap a sticky note on the back of his back that says, do not talk to this man. I guess it's only funny if you work in dental.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't they're not relating to you right now. I'm not relating to you right now. Shut up. And I don't think your coworkers listen.
• 5:38
  So They don't. Anyway, back to my beautiful lead in. So sorry. Really messed that up. So I think part of it is exactly what you said.
• 5:50
  It's the news. It's constantly being like, okay. Well, your brain has to bounce from this thing to this thing to this thing. And then if you buy stuff, then maybe you feel guilty for shopping on your phone because that's so easy to do.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: And consumerism.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: Exactly. And just the screen ness of it, like the blue light, man. I'm telling you. And yet when I read books, when I I found that it calms my nervous system, not just while I'm reading, but the rest of the day, I'm doing better. Or the next couple of days.
• 6:20
  It just calms me in a really pleasant way. I don't know if you guys relate to that. I don't know if anyone else does. But it's just one of those things that, like I don't know. I think there's gotta be people like that.
• 6:33
  It just makes me feel a little bit peaceful Mhmm. In between therapy appointments. In betweenie. A weenie. But today, we are talking about anxiety as Christians.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: I get overwhelmed so easily. I can't sing the rest of this song because it probably would flag us for something. Do you know this song?
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: I do know this song. It's one of my favorite songs. So anxiety is a really personal topic for Brie and I, partly because we both deal with it and partly because we have lots of people that we love that deal with it too. And it's been a weird journey to figure out how to deal with anxiety. And I don't know that we necessarily do it the best of anyone, but we're gonna talk about it because no one seems to wanna talk about it.
• 7:26
  Mhmm.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: I think especially too in the if you grew up or if you're surrounded by more fundamental conservative Christians, that world, there's a stigma. Mhmm. There's a stigma with anxiety that it's like, we don't talk about it. We don't deal with it and we don't talk about it. But everybody's dealing with it, but nobody's talking about it.
• 7:48
  And we all have gray hairs.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: Well, we do have those. Mhmm. When I first started going to therapy, it was shortly after my daughter was born. And looking back, I was definitely dealing with postpartum stuff. Mhmm.
• 8:00
  But I didn't know that that's what it was at the time. I was just over the edge anxious. And so I started seeing a therapist, and I remember my grandma, our grandma. We we share a grandma.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: We also share a grandma and a mom and a dad. Yeah. All the family.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: We share because we are sisters, and we talk about faith and feminism. Get comfy. But our grandma was kind of upset with me because she grew up in kind of that fundamental world. And Christians didn't go to therapy. The people that went to therapy were the crazy people.
• 8:39
  And if you absolutely needed something, you don't go to therapy. You go to your pastor for counseling. Right. And I just I wasn't in church at that time, so it's not like I had a pastor. But even so, there's no universe where I was gonna go to a pastor.
• 8:55
  But I did go to a therapist, and it changed my whole world around because I had someone that I could talk to about big scary things and little stupid things. And I've I've been in therapy on and off ever since. And my daughter's 11. So it's been a good amount of time.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: I think it's something about to having someone who's unrelated to everybody else around you.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: Right. Whereas you go to your pastor for counseling and maybe they know your entire family. Or you have to see that person every Sunday, Wednesday, however often you're going to church, and you don't feel safe talking about the big things and the little things. So even if it's, hey, you know what causes me major anxiety? Responding to text messages.
• 9:52
  Mhmm. Yeah. There's someone to talk to about that. And then also realizing that you're not the only one. I discovered that my brother, our brother, also has some anxiety about responding to text messages.
• 10:05
  And this new girl that I work with also has some anxiety about responding. Like, why? I don't know
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: if I'm right there with you. Actually, when I so I'm sure we'll get into this more as we go on, but I see a psychiatrist, and I'm very open about the fact that I'm on lots of mental health medications. And one of the ones I take if I'm going out to do something that makes me very stressed out. I deal with a lot of social anxiety. So she was like, yeah.
• 10:33
  You know, if you know you're gonna go to the grocery store later, just take this. And I was like, going to the grocery store stresses other people out too? That's not just a me thing. And you don't feel so alone. Mhmm.
• 10:48
  Because if you're taught to stay in your tiny little corner and never discuss this with anyone, you think, my gosh, I'm bizarre. Mhmm.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: I must be so messed up. Something I've realized in my old life too. Your old life? In my old ages. Nothing about you is truly unique.
• 11:08
  If you think I'm the only one who deals with this or I'm the only one who likes this or I'm the only one who does anything
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: You're wrong. There's someone out there who probably is dealing with the same crap. And probably a lot of someones. Mhmm. And it just takes us talking about it out
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: loud. Mhmm. And there's such a freedom in talking about it out loud. Because I think one of the things with anxiety that I have found is once kind of that feeling of anxiety hits, you get scared of the anxiety, and that makes the anxiety worse. And it's like this constant loop.
• 11:43
  Whereas if you can talk about it to someone, some of that scared peace goes away. And it doesn't fix everything, but it does help.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. Even someone just to hold your hand and say, it's okay. Mhmm. Feel your feelings, and I'll be there with you. Mhmm.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: I think we should talk a little bit too. I maybe you grew up in fundamentalist Christianity, maybe you didn't, But where it came from that Christians were kind of against I don't know that it's still the feeling, but it certainly was when we were younger that Christians were against secular psychology to just go to a That's such a churchy word, isn't it?
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: Gosh. I heard someone say the other day, oh, I don't know any secular music. Uh-huh. And I hadn't heard that word in a while.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: And I was like, what? It's one of those words we use that makes people feel othered. Oh, a 100%. Yeah. So some of the common messaging that came from evangelical churches were things like psychology is human wisdom, not god based wisdom.
• 12:55
  Mhmm. They would also say the bible should be sufficient for everything or therapy replaces god. I also this was one thing I heard all the time because people were like, well, are you seeing a Christian counselor?
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: People would say secular counselors would lead you away from god, that they kind of had a goal almost of pulling you from your faith, which, again, been in therapy for a long time. A good therapist certainly is not doing that.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: No. A good therapist is giving you tools in your toolbox Mhmm.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: To help deal with life and respecting whatever your faith is. Yeah. Like, my therapist, I do know, goes to church, but I didn't know that for a really long time. And it doesn't really matter. Sometimes we do talk about God.
• 13:43
  Sometimes we don't. And she simply respects where I'm at, wherever that is. And that's their job. They also thought medication would numb you more than anything, like numb your conviction to God, numb who you were as a person. And I will say old mental health medications may not have been where they are now.
• 14:03
  Mhmm. And I've had people say those things to me. But the world is different than it was way back in the day. And Christians trust other medical professionals. Or at least, I guess most of them.
• 14:17
  I can't speak for every Christian.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: Two out of three of them. Two
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: out of three dentists recommend. No. But like, if you have a heart condition, you're going to your cardiologist. Right?
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: Or if your tooth has an abscess Mhmm. You're going to go see a dentist.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: One would hope. Or you're gonna wind up on TikTok. Let me tell you.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: Let me tell you.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: And yet when it comes to mental health, we don't do the same thing.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: When your suffering is invisible, people spiritualize it. When your suffering is invisible, it's invisible.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. I think that applies to so many pieces of this puzzle. When you look at abuse, they spiritualize it. Anything that can be buried gets spiritualized, and we say, well, talk to God about it. Talk to God about If your husband is abusive, just pray for him.
• 15:16
  Just keep praying for him over and over. If you're anxious, just get on your knees and pray all the time. And I don't wanna say that prayer is not an important thing. But prayer isn't gonna fix an abusive partner, and prayer isn't gonna fix how much serotonin your body produces. Right.
• 15:36
  And I don't think that God is pissed at you for not producing enough serotonin.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: And people learn through that behavior that their anxiety means that they're like spiritually defective. Yes. That there's something wrong with them. But really it can be your genetics. It can be your hormones.
• 15:54
  It can be postpartum shifts like we just talked about. It can be chemical imbalances, physical illnesses. There's so many things that can affect your mental health. That it's not just we're making it up. Mhmm.
• 16:10
  It's out of your control. Or let's talk about depression too. They used to call it the blues. She's just got the blues. But a lot of times it's a chemical imbalance Right.
• 16:20
  In your body that can be addressed just like your heartburn.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: Right. Well, think about all the different things that can create anxiety. Sometimes sometimes it's just part of who you are. But sometimes it's lack of sleep. Sometimes it's trauma.
• 16:40
  Sometimes it's things that have a solution. Mhmm. And if instead of telling someone, hey, you should probably take a nap. Or, hey, Eat a Snickers. You say, open your bible as Bree did the other day to a random passage and open pray.
• 16:58
  That's not helpful. We are not helping them, and you're not helping yourself if you tell yourself that this has to work, that opening your bible to a random page has to work.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: And what happens when you flip the script and you say, mental health medication is a gift from God? Mhmm. He gifted the planet with people who were able to do the science and figure out all the things. Mhmm. Your psychiatrist is a gift from God that they spent that time studying the mind and how it works and how it affects people.
• 17:34
  Mhmm. That is from God just as much as, like, the Bible is.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: Right. Well, they say we stand on the shoulders of generations before us. And I think about that in the world of feminism a lot. Brie and I just went and saw Suffs a couple weeks ago.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: I love it. And it was all about the suffragette movement and or the suffragist movement. We learned that. And I was thinking that the whole time about, like, how we can only be where we are and talk about the things that we talk to you guys about because of the women who came before us. Well, that holds true for mental health too.
• 18:09
  We are only where we are mental health wise because of the people who studied and did testing and learned before us. And were
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: traumatized before us.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: Yes. Because I know what I'm like without therapy, without my mental health medications. I know what that feels like. And it's not a good feeling.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: I just saw something, I think it was yesterday. These metal muzzles for women. Back in the day, if you had hysteria, right, which could be anything. Just could be like your husband saying, hey, she's thinking too much on her own. She doesn't submit enough.
• 18:51
  Yeah. They would institutionalize these women and often would literally put metal muzzles around them. Without science and studying, we would still be there today.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: Right. Well, it's like what you were talking about last week about or did you talk
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: about that on the podcast? Or was I just talking?
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: Oh, there's no way to know. About how women don't need to get power because they already have it. And you were also talking about how women didn't fight for Yes. The right to work. They were already working.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: They fought for the right to be paid Right. For the work that they were already doing.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: Right. Yeah. We're already dealing with anxiety. We already have it. Let's fight for the right to deal with it in a healthy way.
• 19:49
  And And not
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: be demonized for that. Right. And not be told that we don't have enough faith. That our spirituality isn't strong enough because we deal with life. Mhmm.
• 20:03
  We're human. And I'd like to now dive into Bible people who also are very much human and dealt with stuff that we're dealing with now. Mhmm.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: So there actually are a lot of people in the Bible that experience anxiety, like, really obviously so. And I think it's important not just to see that they experienced it, but to see how God responded to them experiencing it. Because that tells us how God would respond to us. Mhmm. Now Elijah in first Kings, after he was on Mount Carmel, which spectacular name.
• 20:36
  Don't you think of, like, Cloudy with a chance of meatballs? Yes. But that's not what it was for him.
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: It wasn't a sticky gooey mess.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: It was not. He was dealing with fear. He ran away. He asked god to kill him. He was exhausted.
• 20:52
  He was alone. It this was a rough time for him. And I think we all can relate to that. When you put it in real terms and you don't just read the Bible verse, but, like, really make him into a person and say he was done. Those days when you're just done.
• 21:10
  You're at the absolute end of your rope.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. You cannot do anything else.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: And there's no hope. There's no hope moving forward. But god didn't look at him and say, hey. Look at all the stuff I've done for you. Why do you have so little faith?
• 21:30
  That's not what happened. That's what we tell Christians today is happening, but that's not what god said to Elijah. Instead, he looked at him. He said, rest. Get some sleep.
• 21:42
  Here's some food. I'm gonna be here with you. He took care of his physical and mental needs and just said, you're you're a person. Just exist. It's okay.
• 21:54
  We're gonna be okay together. And imagine that presence in your own life because we all deal with anxiety. I don't wanna hear from any single person that you've never dealt with anxiety. Or any married person. Because, like, for me, it's just part of my day to day.
• 22:15
  And for many of us out there that have chemical imbalances in their brains, it might just be your day to day. But even if it's not, everybody deals with it sometimes. Everybody deals with bouts of it. And do you really wanna sit there and think the whole time, god hates me? I don't have enough faith?
• 22:34
  Or do you want to think of god in this situation and say, god sits with me?
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: Well, it's like that verse that's about the footprints in the sand. And then there's two Is that a verse or is
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: it just a nice saying? I think it's
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: a poem. I think it's a poem. I think it's a poem. Where there's two footprints in the sand and it's you and Jesus. Mhmm.
• 22:56
  And then there's just one set of footprints and you ask Jesus, hey, where'd you go? And he's like, no, those are my footprints. You fool. That's where I carried you.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: This is where God carries Elijah. And this might be the time where God carries you too. Where you're at the very end of your rope. You have absolutely nothing else to give because that's the human experience. Mhmm.
• 23:21
  Right? We're limited, but God is limitless. Mhmm. And he will care for you.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: We talk a lot about in church leaning into God, giving all your cares to God, etcetera, etcetera. And yet when it comes to this stuff, we're like, oh, but you gotta take care of this. Mhmm. You gotta control the situation. No.
• 23:44
  That's a good message. Lean into God. Just let God take you because not not up to heaven. I don't think that's happening for all of us. But just just to hold you through
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: the hard times. And that doesn't mean that all your anxieties just disappear. No. That doesn't mean that like, oh, I'll just lean in and everything just suddenly goes away. What we mean also is lean into therapy.
• 24:14
  Lean into medication. Lean into maybe not all medication. Lean into
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: rest. Yeah. Reading. Reading. Whatever does it for you.
• 24:25
  Eat some food. Drink some water.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: Self care.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: Oh, self care, man. I think we introduce so much fear into anxiety because the church is gonna judge me, because my friends are gonna judge me, because my family's gonna judge me. And my gosh, does that make it worse? If God hates me because I'm anxious, that makes it so much more unbearable. And anxiety is already really difficult to deal with.
• 24:55
  But we're told God hates us also. God's mad at us also. We're sinning also. That's literally the message. When you are anxious, you are sinning.
• 25:07
  That's not true.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: I think you also have to look at it and be like, God doesn't see me this way.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: God doesn't look at me with unkind eyes just because I'm stressed. Mhmm. God is always loving. God loves you. God made you.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: I mean, think of your favorite person. Would you knock them when they were down?
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I'd kick them in the teeth.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: Thanks. I'm your favorite person.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: No. Point is, get up b hole. We're going to Target.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: You would say that. When you're anxious, God isn't trying to kick you when you're down. He wants you to rest. He wants you to eat. He wants you to see your therapist.
• 25:51
  He wants those things for you because he wanted them for Elijah. We can say that with full confidence. That is biblical. God wants you to eat some food and take a nap. Alright.
• 26:01
  Now Brie wants to talk about Jesus because that's gotta be the biggest one.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: Jesus people paint him as emotionally detached. Mhmm. Endlessly calm. So so peaceful. Talking in parables and mysteries.
• 26:18
  But there's so many parts of the gospel that show him as very deeply emotional. Yeah. He felt abandoned. He wept publicly, which is let's talk about that as a man. Mhmm.
• 26:33
  So many men are told not to cry. Be a man. Right? Jesus was out there crying. Be like Jesus.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: He experienced anguish. He felt overwhelmed. And when he felt overwhelmed,
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: he withdrew. Which is such an anxiety response.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: Yes. Just like isolating yourself, stepping away from the chaos. And he definitely did that. He needed solitude. And he grieved.
• 26:57
  He grieved for the people that he loved. He grieved for the people that he wanted to love more. He also sweat blood. Okay. Yeah.
• 27:07
  You were telling me
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: about this. Tell me more about this story.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: When he was under distress in Gethsemane Gethsemane Gethsemane. Gethsemane. Gethsemane. Let's leave that in. That's Luke twenty two forty four.
• 27:24
  And that's actually a real medical condition. It's called hematoidosis. Lots of words that I'm having fun times saying. It's when you sweat blood under extreme stress. And can you imagine the extreme stress that Jesus was under?
• 27:40
  Well, because he knew what was coming. He knew what was coming. Mhmm. He's actually asking God, hey, if this doesn't have to happen, I would prefer it didn't. But that shows how human Mhmm.
• 27:52
  He was. He's not sinning. He's the only one among us who's not sinning.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: Right? This is just part of humanity. And we believe that God came down as fully human. This is part of the fully human experience. Right.
• 28:06
  He was born out of a woman's womb. And he died just like us. And he died in pain. And he dealt with anxiety.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: I think that is so incredibly powerful to say. Because that's clearly I mean, it's real hard to argue. The man sweat blood. We know this is a stress response and not say Jesus had anxiety. I'm sure there's some pastor out there that would argue with you, but that's clearly an anxiety response.
• 28:38
  Jesus was anxious. And if Jesus was anxious, then that means it's not sinful when you are. Mhmm. Full stop. And I wish so many people could understand that.
• 28:53
  Because for those of us that do deal with anxiety on a regular basis, there's also a part that has to defend themselves on a regular basis, you know? Especially if you're loud about it, like me.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: You are quite loud.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: You have to defend the fact that, like, yes, I'm anxious. No, I'm not a pagan. You know? I still believe in Jesus. I promise.
• 29:20
  I don't need another bible verse. Thank you. I've read them all.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: Have you tried just
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: not being anxious? Hold on. Let me give that a shot. So sorry. I hadn't thought of that before.
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: And that could lead into the verse, do not be anxious.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. So there's a couple of verses actually that talk about that. There's one set comes straight from Jesus. So that's Matthew six, and that is from the Sermon on the Mount.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: Do not worry about tomorrow.
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. For tomorrow will worry about itself. That's a a song. Was it Steve Green that sang that one? Probably.
• 30:00
  Ugh. Steve Green. I don't know if he's still kicking or not.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: Let every breath? Breath. Let everything. Let everything that has breath rise hello.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: I don't is that the same song? Or is that a whole different song? Probably
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: a different one.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: You just got treated to Brie singing something totally random.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: Hey, kids.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: Oh, I remember that part. Yeah. That that took me right back.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: Actually, those songs are on my liked playlist.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: Anyway, so Jesus is doing the Sermon on the Mount. He basically says, yeah, don't worry about tomorrow. Tomorrow will worry about itself. So what does that mean? If anxiety isn't sinful, but Jesus said don't do it, what do we do with that?
• 30:52
  Mhmm. How do you deal with that?
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: You look at the historical context. What? No. You dive a little deeper, friends. We never do that.
• 31:01
  Well, Jesus is speaking to impoverished people
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: Living under Roman occupation who genuinely did not know where food or clothing would come from. Right. Can you imagine? That would be anxiety. Friends.
• 31:18
  So
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: basically, what he was saying was, you guys can't control this. Your day to day needs being met or not met, you have very little control over, and that's real stressful.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. Yeah. It's not about anxiety.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: It's about trust. Mhmm.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: God will provide for you. Just like he provided manna from heaven, just like he cares for the birds and the flowers, etcetera. God will provide for your needs. And it wasn't, hey. You have an anxiety disorder.
• 31:54
  Tamp that baby down. The Greek verb in this verse I don't speak Greek. I don't know if you guys are aware of that, so I'm gonna mispronounce this. But I it's called is the verb in in that verse. So the possible meanings of that word, because there's never a direct translation, is to be anxious, to be unduly concerned, to worry, to be distracted by cares, or to be pulled apart mentally.
• 32:24
  I really enjoy that phrase because it just seems right to be pulled apart mentally.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: Once again, have you been to the medieval torture museum?
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Let's reference that again.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: When they hold you by your arms and your legs and they literally pull you apart? Imagine that with your mind.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: I can. I can imagine that with my mind. It happens all the time. Yep. So the basically the root concept of that is distraction of your mind.
• 33:01
  Instead of being able to focus on the task ahead, I'm thinking, what do I eat later? Why can't I clothe my children? I can't pay my taxes, and the Romans are gonna come attack me. That's what they're talking about here. God will provide.
• 33:18
  Don't worry about that. But he also wasn't condemning them for it. There isn't a punishment in this verse. Mhmm. It's not, don't worry about tomorrow or I will smite you.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: It's not in the 10 commandments. Right. It's not in the greatest commission. It's saying, hey, I've got you.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. And on some level, it's wisdom. Right? And we all understand that wisdom. As Christians, it's like, yes.
• 33:44
  I would love to be able to say, won't worry because God has me. In an ideal world, that's how it works.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: But also, look at Jesus. Mhmm. He knew that God had him. He was God. But he's still stressed over
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: it. Mhmm. And doesn't that make you feel less alone? Mhmm. To think because we know that Jesus came down as a person, but we've turned Jesus into this weird halo nonhuman thing that came down.
• 34:19
  Through all our art and stuff. Right. We don't want him to be human in some ways. We want to say that he was fully human and fully God, but what does fully human actually mean? And it's down and dirty.
• 34:36
  Ew. It is. If Jesus is fully human and he's experienced the emotions and the feelings that you have, doesn't that make it so much more real? Mhmm.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: Maybe he experienced acne. Maybe he experienced diarrhea. All of the human experience. All
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: of it. It just makes it feel to me, you know, the old church wanted to make Jesus still holier, still and of course he was. But, like, put him up on a pedestal that we can't even look at. And that doesn't feel like a real faith to me. I need to be able to relate to yeah.
• 35:14
  Jesus lived. He got rocks in his shoes, and it annoyed him. He got a paper cut. Well, probably not. There probably wasn't paper.
• 35:21
  He got cuts. They had paper. I don't know. But were they regularly using paper? Papyrus.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: But were they regularly using it? I don't know. I wasn't there. Maybe he's got he got his belt loops stuck in a doorknob.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: I don't think they had those.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: He stuffed his toe. Ugh. Annoying.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: He had to clip his nails. He had to blow his nose. Did they have nail clippers? I mean, somebody had to do something with their nails. Otherwise, they would have been like Maxine's.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: Turn off the rails. But
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: the point is Jesus is human and experienced anxiety. Mhmm. So when he's talking to these people at the Sermon on the Mount, he is not talking about panic disorders. He is not talking about anxiety disorders or any mental health condition, OCD, PTSD, situational anxiety. He's not talking about those things.
• 36:28
  He's talking about a specific situation for these people. Now you can take that, and you can apply it to certain things. And you can say there's wisdom there. But you can't turn around and say to everyone experiencing anxiety, you're not allowed to have that because Jesus said no. Mhmm.
• 36:46
  Now part of this also is Matthew six twenty seven, where Jesus says, can any of you by worrying add a single hour to your span of life? Yeah. And that one gets used a lot too. Like, don't worry because it's not
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: gonna help you out. Or you only have the same amount of hours in the day as Beyonce.
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: That one doesn't make me feel
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: good.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: That one makes me feel bad. But what Jesus is doing here again, we like to assign punishment and blame to everything. If you don't do it this way, then you're gonna get hit by lightning. But Jesus isn't blaming anyone for this. He's saying something practical, something that makes sense.
• 37:30
  It it is very true. By worrying, I can't add an hour to my life. He's not lying.
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: Wow. Thanks. Sometimes
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: Jesus stated the obvious. And and maybe you find help in that. Be like, you know what? It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.
• 37:49
  And if that helps you, then that's great. But he isn't critiquing you either.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: No. He's just saying none of this matters, and then we die.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: And him sooner than others. So that is kind of that section in Matthew. So another verse that gets used a lot I've heard this one just so many times is Philippians four six. And it says, do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God.
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: That is so Anna Green Gables, Marilla coated.
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: You said coated. We're not Gen Zs. What are you doing over here?
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: I've been spending too much time on ChadGBT.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: ChadGBT is very Gen Z. Yeah. So this one will get used to say, hey. Prayer takes care of everything. Take all of your worries to God, and then have amnesia, and it'll be great.
• 38:47
  But that's just not how it works. I can pray about something, and it's still sitting in my brain.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: I think prayer is great for mindfulness.
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: Being able to articulate your feelings and your thoughts and being able to expand them more and maybe like I don't know. I think it's an act of mindfulness too. But I also think prayer and take a step.
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. Right.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: Because sitting there and praying about it, it's not always going to change your situation. But that's so often what a Christian counselor or a
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: pastor will say to you. Just pray. Just be in your bible. And I am violently against Christian therapy and therapy with pastors. Not that your therapist can't be a Christian, but there's a whole genre of therapists that are Christian therapists.
• 39:49
  I'm using quotes. You can't see them because this is a podcast. But I know so many people that have gotten caught in this trap. And they will go to someone who does not have a degree, who just got some weird certification from some random website.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: I watched a YouTube video on it.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: Right. Or they'll go to somebody a couple at their church who has a lot of wisdom or their pastor who took one therapy class in college.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: We would love to mentor you.
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: Yes. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And the reality is these are not people that are educated in real issues. Now, I don't know what you're dealing with, whether it is
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: a mental health issue. We're not professionals. We're telling you to go to one.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we are. Whatever it is, you should go speak to someone who is educated in how to help you. Not whoever happens to be available at the church.
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, who has science behind them too, who understands the inner workings of the brain and can actually give you really good tools to help sort those feelings or help you make decisions in your life or how to help you navigate through a tough relationship. Like, there's so many benefits that I should really get involved in.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: Yes, you should. I mean, let's say you again, you have heart issues. You go to your cardiologist and they're like, well, have you been praying?
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: Or let's talk about women get compared to objects all the time. Right? Women get compared to cars. Mhmm. Well, you wouldn't buy a car without giving it a test drive.
• 41:34
  The same with your car. Right? You take it in for maintenance. Mhmm. You take it in for oil changes.
• 41:44
  You take it in to get a tire replaced. Your mind is just no. Your mind's more important. Mhmm. Go take it in.
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: Take it in.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: Take it in. Give your mind an oil change. And don't take it to a
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: quick lube. That made me uncomfortable. Back to Philippians. See. Now this is being written while Paul is in prison.
• 42:14
  So I don't think that Paul is like, don't be anxious about anything. Just pray. I'm gonna guess Paul is anxious. Paul is in prison. Unless he's one
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: of those people who likes to keep going in prison because it's like, you know,
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: shelter and food. But it's not, though. At this time, somebody has to come bring money for him to be fed and stuff like that. They're not feeding them even. True.
• 42:37
  So what you can kind of piece together from the rest of this section is rejoice in hardship, gentleness, the lord is near. There's a lot of peace language throughout it. So I think what he's trying to do here, and what a lot of theologians think he's trying to do here, is encourage you. And isn't that different than the way this verse gets used? He's sitting there and he's like, peace.
• 43:07
  Peace be with you. God is with you. I know you're suffering. I'm suffering too. Let me send you some encouragement.
• 43:17
  And part of that is and it's the same word that was used in the last verse we talked about. I'm not gonna say it again because I said it wrong the first time. But it basically means that divided mental focus. Don't worry about the day to day things God will provide. But again, no condemnation to you.
• 43:37
  And I don't know. Poor Paul. I think Paul is up in heaven just shaking his head absolutely all the time. He's like, my gosh. I need to come down there and fix these people.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: My favorite verse that got me through a lot of hard times is John fourteen twenty seven. I don't know if this has any place in this podcast, but maybe someone out here needs to hear it. But it's peace I leave with you, my peace I give to you. I do not give you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
• 44:14
  And in this, it's like, you're going to be afraid. Right? Mhmm. But this is God's supernatural peace. This is the kind of peace that overwhelms you in situations that you should not be peaceful Mhmm.
• 44:28
  In. I don't know if that has a place in this podcast,
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: but I really like that. But she was say it anyway. Because it's our podcast, not yours. Yeah. I think whatever you guys are going through and dealing with, we both kind of felt like we should do this because Brie and I have both been dealing with a lot of anxiety lately.
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: Life changes and my gray hairs are unstoppable. It's ridiculous. I hear me out for next week. The Christians. Those those Christian people.
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: Those Christians.
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: Those Christian people. I'd love to dive into the idea of yoga. Oh. Meditation. Uh-huh.
• 45:19
  Enlightenment. Mindfulness. And how actually a lot of these themes are reflected in the Bible. Mhmm. But we have so demonized them.
• 45:31
  Mhmm. And I think it goes right along with anxiety and self care and let's pull that apart. But people are so scared.
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: The Christian people are scared of other religions. Mhmm. Full stop. Oh, yeah. But like when you look at Buddhism and just some of the ideas behind that, I'd love to dive deeper.
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I remember being told that meditation was wrong. Uh-huh. Because meditation is the idea of clearing your mind. And if you clear your mind, then you're not thinking about God, and you're always supposed to be thinking about God.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: And you're emptying your mind too much so that demons could come inside your mind. Yes. Or the same with yoga. Yoga, you're supposed to be also meditating, and then you're letting demons in
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: your mind. That whole thing is and maybe we can talk about that in the idea of anxiety too. But just the idea of spiritual warfare and demons that hit, I would say in, like, the late nineties that hit the Christian church. Holy crap. Were you guys
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: there for that? I was terrified of demons. Uh-huh. And I did hear someone say, we could do a whole demon episode. I remember hearing something that, okay, if you're saved, you are saved from the demon.
• 46:49
  So it's like you have a barrier around you. Yeah. But they're still gonna be constantly trying to attack Yep. And I would sometimes lay there and maybe this was just straight up anxiety. Let's talk about that.
• 47:00
  But I would lay there at night and imagine all these demons trying to The
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: things we taught children. I am telling you.
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: And I would imagine I was surrounded by a billion angels and then I would sing hymns. It knew my mind.
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: Church trauma.
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: T shirt trauma. It's like everybody's everybody's afraid of the dark. Maybe there's a monster. But for me, it was demons.
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: Put that on a t shirt. Yeah. I remember that kind of stuff too. I remember we did a family bible study at one point. We would every once in a while, our parents would get on a kick, and they would be like, we're gonna do a family bible study.
• 47:41
  And there was one that talked about spiritual warfare. Maybe this is what gave it to you. I don't know. My trigger. And it talked about how there's so much more spiritual warfare going on than we have any idea about, blah blah blah.
• 47:55
  And it said it very authoritatively when I was a child. Mhmm. How do they know? I'm not a 100% saying they're wrong, but, like, how do you know? Mhmm.
• 48:04
  Can you see the demons and the angels? Because that sounds like probably yoga to me. Yeah. And I find that and, you know, I'm not saying there's none of that going on, but I think we attribute a lot of things to, like, the devil is attacking you right now. Anxiety.
• 48:27
  Oh, the devil is just attacking you.
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: Again, everything is spiritualized.
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: Everything is spiritual warfare. And sometimes sometimes you just need a nap and you need snack. Sometimes
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: it's just a headache.
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: Sometimes you need to leave the house. Yep. Walk in grass. Or not. There's ticks.
• 48:45
  Ugh. Yeah. I hate a tick. They're really scary. But it's I don't know.
• 48:50
  We spiritualize things that never really needed it. Maybe that's the theme of this series of things. Overspiritualization. Love it. That was a long word.
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: Let's call that this episode, over spiritualization.
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah. That'll get a lot of people listening.
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: People will love that. They're gonna be like super califragilistic what? Normally, we name it things like WTF God. Yeah. But then the next one's gonna be
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: over spiritualization. And the year of our Lord 2026.
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: And you can't say that drunk, so there you go. Alright. Well, tune in for next week where we maybe do some yoga and meditation. I we have rocks. We have rocks.
• 49:37
  We have yoga mats.
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So many options. We could find an incense or a candle.
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: I'll play some
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: music. I'll say, what are those things where affirmations.
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: This week, we taught you why it's okay to be anxious. Next week, we'll help you not be anxious. We'll help you meditate.
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: We could do ASMR. No. We could do this. Everybody close your eyes.
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: No one wants that. Imagine all the stress in your body is one big balloon and you have to fart it out.
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: Alright, folks. I know my sister, and we are headed off thrills in a bad, bad way. So I'm a distinct guy now. Is that what ASMR people do before she starts cutting the soap or something? No.
• 50:30
  Do we have any? Okay. We'll talk to you next week. Love you. Bye.
• 50:36
  Sorry. Bye.