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From Passion to Prestige with Andrea Kremer · Rosters to Rings Podcast

0:03
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Rosters to Rings. I'm your host, Thad Levine.
0:07
Speaker 1: I am truly honored to be joined today by Andrea Kramer.
0:11
Speaker 1: Andrea is a true pioneer of sports journalism, a nine
0:14
Speaker 1: time Emmy Award winner, a Peabody recipient, and a Pro
0:17
Speaker 1: Football Hall of Famer. From her early days as the
0:20
Speaker 1: first female producer at NFL Films to her historic tenure
0:24
Speaker 1: as ESPN's first female correspondent, Andrea has spent over four
0:29
Speaker 1: decades crafting the stories that define the games we love.
0:33
Speaker 1: Andrea has covered more than thirty five Super Bowls in
0:35
Speaker 1: three Olympic Games, Andreas shattered the grass ceiling as part
0:39
Speaker 1: of the first all female NFL broadcast booth, and is
0:43
Speaker 1: chronicled the historic gold medal runs of Olympic icons. Whether
0:47
Speaker 1: she is holding the league's feet to the fire and
0:49
Speaker 1: player safety or conducting a revealing interview with the biggest
0:52
Speaker 1: names in sports, her work is defined by an uncompromising
0:56
Speaker 1: pursuit of the truth. We are pleased to welcome the
0:59
Speaker 1: legendary Andrea Kramer to Rosters to Rings.
1:03
Speaker 2: Thank you? Does legendary mean I'm old? Is legendary code
1:06
Speaker 2: for that? Or what?
1:08
Speaker 1: I don't know, esteemed and accomplished.
1:10
Speaker 2: I hope not. Thank you for that lovely introduction. Bad
1:14
Speaker 2: It's great.
1:15
Speaker 1: I'm available for weddings and bar mitzvahs, Andrea. One of
1:20
Speaker 1: our traditions on roster syrings is we ask each guest
1:23
Speaker 1: what is their sports passion origin story? How did you
1:26
Speaker 1: fall in love with sports? Uh?
1:29
Speaker 2: Well, I'm glad that you said that you asked that
1:32
Speaker 2: to all your guests, because otherwise I would say, why
1:36
Speaker 2: would you ask a woman why she loves sports? Because
1:39
Speaker 2: we know that there's not just in the DNA for
1:43
Speaker 2: boys little boys to like love sports. Plus, but am
1:47
Speaker 2: I the first female guest on the show?
1:50
Speaker 1: You You Are? You Are? This is yet another first
1:52
Speaker 1: for you as a Trailblazer.
1:54
Speaker 3: Ry.
1:54
Speaker 2: Oh wow, that's pretty cool. Well, thank you. Okay, So
1:57
Speaker 2: here's the deal. I was very lucky that I had
2:02
Speaker 2: parents that supported the fact that cute little Andy loved football.
2:08
Speaker 2: I loved football since I was about eight years old
2:13
Speaker 2: when I love the Miami Dolphins. When the Dolphins lost
2:18
Speaker 2: to the Cowboys twenty forty three and the Super Bowl
2:21
Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy one, I cried and the next year
2:25
Speaker 2: when the Dolphins went started to go undefeated, Bob Grisey
2:28
Speaker 2: broke's leg, and then all the season I sent a
2:31
Speaker 2: note to Coach Schula, a get a autograph picture back.
2:36
Speaker 2: They win the Super Bowl. The next year, when they
2:39
Speaker 2: finally ended the undefeated streight they lost to the Raiders,
2:41
Speaker 2: I sent another letter to the team. I got another
2:46
Speaker 2: autograph picture back, this one of Coach Schula. And then
2:49
Speaker 2: you had to fast forward to my first job in television,
2:55
Speaker 2: which was, as you pointed out, the first female producer, director,
2:58
Speaker 2: writer editor at NFL Films. I'm interviewing Coach Shula, who
3:02
Speaker 2: I got to know pretty well over the course of
3:03
Speaker 2: my career. At one point I found the pictures and
3:06
Speaker 2: I brought them to him and I go, did you
3:08
Speaker 2: really sign these pictures? And he did, which was which
3:11
Speaker 2: was great because that's the whole thing about, you know,
3:13
Speaker 2: meeting your heroes and your childhood heroes and how do
3:16
Speaker 2: they turn out to be. But I just I love football.
3:22
Speaker 2: Every My parents got tickets season tickets to the Philadelphia
3:27
Speaker 2: Eagles because I grew up in Philadelphia. I like to
3:29
Speaker 2: say the Eagles were my NFC team. The Dolphins were
3:31
Speaker 2: my AFC team. And we started going religiously and then
3:37
Speaker 2: on Super Bowl Sunday, I would present my parents with
3:43
Speaker 2: a game breakdown. I would through the whole previous week.
3:46
Speaker 2: I would cut out articles from the Philadelphia Inquirer, the
3:50
Speaker 2: now defunct Philadelphia Bulletin, the New York Times, and I
3:53
Speaker 2: would create these these sort of scouting reports. So I
3:56
Speaker 2: was either dreamed to be a journalist or a pr person.
3:59
Speaker 2: But again, my parents took it seriously. They bought me books.
4:03
Speaker 2: First book I remember was called The Pro Style when
4:06
Speaker 2: I was maybe ten years old, and they just really
4:12
Speaker 2: respected that. When I was honored, as you mentioned by
4:15
Speaker 2: the Proofoball Hall of Fame and I'm making my speech,
4:19
Speaker 2: I told the story of how when I was in
4:24
Speaker 2: maybe tenth grade, ninth or tenth grade, I would come
4:26
Speaker 2: home on Monday with money. After a couple of weeks,
4:32
Speaker 2: my mother said, were you getting that money later? When
4:36
Speaker 2: I got older? Igo, What did you think, mom? I
4:37
Speaker 2: was turning tricks. I mean, where do you think I
4:39
Speaker 2: got money? Is a ten year in tenth grade? But
4:42
Speaker 2: I said, very sheepishly, I'm winning the football pool at school.
4:47
Speaker 2: And at that time, my dad, who was who was
4:50
Speaker 2: in a law firm, wanted to enlist me right away
4:52
Speaker 2: to do his pool. But when I went into the
4:56
Speaker 2: Hall of Fame, my oldest friend in the world was
4:58
Speaker 2: there in the audience, and I said, and he knows
5:01
Speaker 2: better than anyone, because I think I probably won more
5:03
Speaker 2: from him. But again, the kids I grew up with,
5:07
Speaker 2: they probably would not be surprised of what I'm doing now,
5:11
Speaker 2: other than the fact that there were no women doing
5:13
Speaker 2: it when I was growing up, So there wasn't an
5:15
Speaker 2: Andrea Kramer for me to look at and say, ooh,
5:18
Speaker 2: I want to do that. So that's why one reason
5:21
Speaker 2: it's extremely important for me to be that person that
5:24
Speaker 2: young girls and young women can look to and say, geez,
5:27
Speaker 2: I'd like to do what she does.
5:29
Speaker 1: It's a wonderful story and Andrea. It reminds me of
5:32
Speaker 1: something that Byron Buxton, who is a tremendously gifted center
5:36
Speaker 1: fielder for the Minnesota Twin, said to me. He had
5:38
Speaker 1: a pension for running into walls, and unfortunately the walls
5:41
Speaker 1: were not very forgiving. And I asked him why do
5:44
Speaker 1: you do that? And he said one of the reasons
5:46
Speaker 1: was was because he felt there was a kid in
5:48
Speaker 1: the stands who he could convert into a mild fan
5:51
Speaker 1: and a mild fan that he could convert into a fanatic.
5:54
Speaker 1: And the story you just told about Don Schuel, it
5:56
Speaker 1: sounds like you were predisposed to love sports regardless, but
5:59
Speaker 1: I'm guessing that accelerated your love and your passion for
6:02
Speaker 1: the Miami Dolphins, at least in that moment. And it's
6:05
Speaker 1: such an easy gesture by a sports figure to do
6:07
Speaker 1: those things, and it really captures your heart and captures
6:10
Speaker 1: it forever.
6:12
Speaker 2: So as I always like to say, some little girls
6:16
Speaker 2: had Barbie, I had Larry Zonka. I loved Larry Zanka.
6:20
Speaker 2: So my first job ever in sports, I was the
6:23
Speaker 2: sports editor of the largest weekly newspaper in Pennsylvania, the
6:26
Speaker 2: now defunct Mainline Chronicle. But the first road trip I
6:31
Speaker 2: ever took was to the USFL championship game between the
6:35
Speaker 2: Philadelphia Stars and the Arizona Wranglers, and it was in Tampa.
6:40
Speaker 2: So I go on the road, and in those days,
6:44
Speaker 2: filing stories was quite a technological production, and the writers
6:50
Speaker 2: from the philip Inquirer really took me under their wing.
6:52
Speaker 2: They showed me how to do all the mechanicals. I mean,
6:55
Speaker 2: it was just a good experience anyway. So one day
7:01
Speaker 2: there's a big luncheon with the teams and various officials
7:07
Speaker 2: from from USFL franchises. And I get on the elevator
7:12
Speaker 2: to go to go to the lunch and there's a
7:14
Speaker 2: guy wearing a golf shirt that says Jacksonville Bolls. Well
7:18
Speaker 2: at that time, Larry Zanka was the general manager of
7:21
Speaker 2: the Jacksonville Bulls. So I very, you know, cool, calmly
7:24
Speaker 2: and collectly go, oh, is Larry Zank here? And he said, oh,
7:30
Speaker 2: you're going to that luncheon. I said yeah, and he
7:32
Speaker 2: goes he'll be there. I go, oh, okay, great. I
7:34
Speaker 2: get to the lunch. It's like my radar, my raider,
7:37
Speaker 2: who cares about food. I need to find Larry Zaka's
7:40
Speaker 2: this gigantic room with these big round tables. I find him.
7:44
Speaker 2: He's sitting alone at the table eating. I walk over
7:48
Speaker 2: to him and I go, hello, mister Zako. My name
7:51
Speaker 2: is ANDREWA. Cremeramsport said the Lord's weekly newspaper, Pensivinian the
7:53
Speaker 2: Median Chronicle. And I want you to hear the whole
7:55
Speaker 2: reason that I love sports is because of you. And
7:57
Speaker 2: he looks at me and I'm going to like this
7:59
Speaker 2: big and he just starts laughing, pulls a chair out,
8:02
Speaker 2: we sit down, I recite the entire lineup of the
8:05
Speaker 2: of the seventy two Dolphins, every starter that they have,
8:08
Speaker 2: and we just started talking. And again it was really
8:14
Speaker 2: it was. It was a wonderful experience to meet him
8:18
Speaker 2: and just to be able to talk with him. Now
8:21
Speaker 2: fast forward too, I'm with the ESPN and I am
8:26
Speaker 2: covering the Monday night game between the Bears and the Dolphins,
8:33
Speaker 2: and we're down in Florida and pregame, I have as
8:39
Speaker 2: my guest Larry Zanka. So Stuart Scott, who's hosting the show,
8:45
Speaker 2: as he's throwing at me, he said, well, you know, Andrea,
8:48
Speaker 2: I grew up in Chicago, so I was a huge
8:51
Speaker 2: Bears fan. I understand that you were a Dolphin. And
8:54
Speaker 2: I said, that's right, And I was a Dolphin because
8:57
Speaker 2: of this man, In fact, so much so that I
8:59
Speaker 2: named my dog Zunk. We're live and he goes, why
9:02
Speaker 2: do people name their dogs after me? And I go,
9:04
Speaker 2: you should be honored. Oh again, you know, it was
9:08
Speaker 2: just funny to be able to kind of have some
9:12
Speaker 2: some childhood memories that would seep into the work that
9:16
Speaker 2: I was doing once I started to be on the air.
9:20
Speaker 1: Well, sometimes you hear the old adage of it's better
9:22
Speaker 1: not to meet your heroes, but it sounds like in
9:25
Speaker 1: this case, it was wonderful to meet your heroes. Yeah.
9:28
Speaker 1: Sometimes not all of them were meant to be met.
9:30
Speaker 2: No, no, not all of them. Yeah, I had I
9:34
Speaker 2: had an issue in the scheme of things I would
9:39
Speaker 2: say that I was. I did not. I underwent my
9:46
Speaker 2: instances of harassment and testing, mainly testing. The biggest time
9:52
Speaker 2: that I was tested, I would say, and you'll understand
9:54
Speaker 2: what I mean by that, was with Bobby Knight. So
9:59
Speaker 2: I was interviewing coach Knight for a retrospective on his
10:04
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy six undefeated team. And I really wasn't following
10:10
Speaker 2: Indiana basketball back in nineteen seventy six when I was
10:13
Speaker 2: in high school, but I knew. I studied and learned
10:18
Speaker 2: everything about that team. I knew everyone, the starters, the reserves, numbers, games,
10:27
Speaker 2: I knew everything because I knew that Coach Knight was
10:31
Speaker 2: going to test me. So early on in the interview,
10:33
Speaker 2: I asked him a question, and he responds back and
10:37
Speaker 2: asks me a question, and right off the top of
10:39
Speaker 2: my head, I answered that question, and you could see
10:41
Speaker 2: everything change. It was as though he was saying, Okay,
10:46
Speaker 2: I'm not sure what I thought about her going in,
10:47
Speaker 2: but clearly she knows her stuff, and it changed the
10:49
Speaker 2: whole complexion of the interview moving forward, and it was
10:53
Speaker 2: really it was really great. So in the scheme of things,
10:56
Speaker 2: I was probably just generally tested more than anything else,
11:00
Speaker 2: but I had an experience in your beloved Baseball with
11:06
Speaker 2: a player who shall remain nameless, but I was profiling him.
11:14
Speaker 2: And we had the interview all set up and we
11:17
Speaker 2: were going to do it before batting practice. So we're
11:19
Speaker 2: set up kind of, you know, behind the cage, and
11:22
Speaker 2: then the PR guy comes to us and says, hey,
11:24
Speaker 2: you know what, He's got to do it after practice
11:27
Speaker 2: because he was shooting a commercial and like, no problem.
11:29
Speaker 2: We're used to hurry up and wait. So he comes out,
11:32
Speaker 2: he takes his VP and then he sort of winds
11:36
Speaker 2: his way over to our interview set and is there
11:40
Speaker 2: micing him and checking the lighting. I'm just kind of
11:42
Speaker 2: making conversation and I say to him, oh, I understand
11:45
Speaker 2: you shot a commercial today. What was it for? And
11:48
Speaker 2: he looks at me and he goes Tampex tampons, and
11:51
Speaker 2: I go, oh, great, did you get any samples? Do
11:54
Speaker 2: you have any like right right away? So it was
11:57
Speaker 2: sort of like touche like, I'm not going to take
11:59
Speaker 2: your crap, dude, Okay, we did the interview, got everything
12:02
Speaker 2: I needed, and you know, thanked him, and as he's
12:06
Speaker 2: walking away, at the top of my lungs, I go, hey,
12:11
Speaker 2: so and so you have any tampons? And and he
12:16
Speaker 2: just like looked at me sort of like all right,
12:18
Speaker 2: you got me like, why is that necessary? Why was
12:21
Speaker 2: that necessary that? You know? It's it is what it is.
12:26
Speaker 2: You just you got to give it right back to
12:28
Speaker 2: people if they're gonna if they're gonna act.
12:30
Speaker 1: That way to you, well, and that's reprehensible. And I
12:33
Speaker 1: think a lot of these professional athletes act like they're
12:36
Speaker 1: not only above decorum, but they're above the law. And
12:40
Speaker 1: they've grown up in very stunted social environments. But that's
12:44
Speaker 1: totally unappealing and really reprehensible behavior by that that athlete.
12:50
Speaker 1: And I can only imagine how much of that you
12:52
Speaker 1: probably had to deal with your current speak, speaking of
12:54
Speaker 1: which we talked about in the intro, you blazed trails
12:59
Speaker 1: for women are across all platforms of sports journalism throughout
13:03
Speaker 1: your whole career and you continue to do so. It's
13:05
Speaker 1: a tremendous accomplishment. But did it also come with a
13:08
Speaker 1: sense of responsibility and burden as well?
13:11
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, yes, of course absolutely. When I started out
13:17
Speaker 2: as a writer, I just wanted to do the job.
13:22
Speaker 2: Mett's I think how I always approach things. But two
13:26
Speaker 2: stories come to mind. One is when I was at
13:29
Speaker 2: the newspaper, I was going to profile the Eagles rookie
13:34
Speaker 2: wide receiver Mike Quick, who was going to his first
13:37
Speaker 2: Pro Bowl. Well back back in the day and then
13:40
Speaker 2: in the other century, women were not allowed in the
13:44
Speaker 2: Philadelphia Eagles locker room on non game days. They were
13:47
Speaker 2: not allowed in the locker room on non game days.
13:52
Speaker 2: So this is Monday, the day after the final day
13:54
Speaker 2: of the season, and players are cleaning out their lockers
13:57
Speaker 2: and that's when we'd arranged for me to do the interview.
13:59
Speaker 2: I got special dispensation to go in the locker room.
14:02
Speaker 2: So I'm in the locker room, Mike's sitting in one
14:05
Speaker 2: sort of little cubicle, and I'm just sitting in the
14:07
Speaker 2: in the one next room, and I've got my recorder
14:09
Speaker 2: but I haven't really started it yet, and we're just
14:11
Speaker 2: talking about the season, and he looks at me and
14:14
Speaker 2: he goes, wow, you really know what you're talking about.
14:17
Speaker 2: And I kind of throw up my hands and I go, yeah,
14:19
Speaker 2: why do you think I'm here? I told that story
14:22
Speaker 2: when I got inducted into the Philadelphia Sports Hall of
14:24
Speaker 2: Fame and Mike was in the audience, and he's just like, Yep,
14:27
Speaker 2: she's right. I remember that. So there's again there was
14:31
Speaker 2: that feeling of you always have to prove yourself. Now
14:36
Speaker 2: it's not just from the athletes. I go to NFL Films,
14:41
Speaker 2: first producer, director, writer, editor, and I am meeting with
14:46
Speaker 2: my boss, my new boss. It's about a week before
14:49
Speaker 2: I was ready to start. I come in, I'm dressed
14:51
Speaker 2: in a suit, and we sit down and this is
14:54
Speaker 2: kind of my my onboarding. So he says, well, first
14:58
Speaker 2: of all, dressed down. We don't we don't dress up
15:00
Speaker 2: like that on what's called Editor's Row, which is where
15:04
Speaker 2: all the producers and were had their offices located. So
15:10
Speaker 2: it says, dressed down, and here's what it was, just
15:12
Speaker 2: giving me some particulars, and then he says to me,
15:15
Speaker 2: I just want you to know that there are some
15:18
Speaker 2: guys on Editor's Row who think it's way overdue for
15:22
Speaker 2: us to hire a woman. But there are also a
15:26
Speaker 2: few who don't think that you belong And I'm like, wow, gee,
15:30
Speaker 2: thanks for that rousing, you know, rousing endorsement. I said, listen,
15:34
Speaker 2: I'm not here to win a popularity contest. I'm here
15:37
Speaker 2: to learn to do the best work and contribute as
15:41
Speaker 2: as best I can. Well that it did not take
15:44
Speaker 2: long for me to figure out who didn't think I belonged.
15:48
Speaker 2: So back then we would create the segments for Inside
15:57
Speaker 2: the NFL on HBO, which means we picked the footage,
16:00
Speaker 2: we edited together. We wrote all the scripts, did the music,
16:05
Speaker 2: but then before it went to the final production process,
16:12
Speaker 2: all of the producers would huddle together in this room
16:15
Speaker 2: and watch the film. So that number one, we all
16:19
Speaker 2: saw the footage, but we also kind of could fact
16:23
Speaker 2: check each other for lack of better work. So I'm
16:26
Speaker 2: sitting there and I hear this, I hear this script
16:29
Speaker 2: coming up, and I know that this fact is wrong.
16:33
Speaker 2: But now it is where you know something, but then
16:35
Speaker 2: all of a sudden you start second guessing yourself. So
16:38
Speaker 2: I second guessed myself. I'm like, oh my god, I
16:40
Speaker 2: know this is right, but oh my God, what if
16:42
Speaker 2: I'm wrong? And then I found out that it was
16:45
Speaker 2: the script of the guy who didn't think I belonged.
16:49
Speaker 2: So now I'm really you know, what do I do
16:54
Speaker 2: if I'm right? The show looks bad. We're supposed to
16:57
Speaker 2: be the oracle for the NFL and we're making mistakes.
17:01
Speaker 2: So I very quietly said, I think you might want
17:06
Speaker 2: to check this. I think that I use the word wrong,
17:09
Speaker 2: and I don't think you might. I think what the
17:11
Speaker 2: proper thing is is this. And the guy kind of
17:14
Speaker 2: like looks at me, and I was right, and that
17:19
Speaker 2: proved myself to him. So we didn't go to lunch afterwards,
17:23
Speaker 2: but he treated me differently because it was sort of like, okay,
17:25
Speaker 2: number one, you bailed me out in this in this respect,
17:28
Speaker 2: but again, you got to prove yourself, and a rookie
17:33
Speaker 2: and major League Baseball or the NFL, you got to
17:34
Speaker 2: prove yourself as well. It was just a little bit
17:37
Speaker 2: more challenging to prove yourself when you are the first
17:40
Speaker 2: of your gender in an a profession.
17:44
Speaker 1: Andrea, I couldn't agree with you more. It's I think
17:47
Speaker 1: these jobs are so difficult to excel and there's some
17:50
Speaker 1: such a high demand for these roles. Everyone wants to
17:53
Speaker 1: do them. But that being said, it's really exceptionally difficult
17:57
Speaker 1: to excel when people are actively creating hurdles for you
18:01
Speaker 1: to succeed or trying to drag you down in those instances.
18:05
Speaker 1: How do you feel now, you know, several years later,
18:08
Speaker 1: what is the state of the industry today, and what
18:11
Speaker 1: advice are you giving to women who are trying to
18:13
Speaker 1: break into the industry now?
18:16
Speaker 2: Well, Look, because I have always been the first in
18:25
Speaker 2: various jobs that I had, it's always been important to
18:27
Speaker 2: not be the last and to be able to open
18:30
Speaker 2: the door for people. I just so, I'm thrilled that
18:34
Speaker 2: there are more women getting a variety of opportunities. Do
18:39
Speaker 2: I still feel that women, certainly NFL wise, can get
18:44
Speaker 2: pigeonholed to a sideline role? Yes? I think that what
18:48
Speaker 2: kind of storm and I did starting in twenty eighteen
18:55
Speaker 2: calling games for Amazon's Thursday Night Football, becoming the first
18:59
Speaker 2: full time a female booth to do so, and me
19:04
Speaker 2: becoming the first full time female NFL analyst. But even
19:08
Speaker 2: then we had challenges the executive at Amazon in those days.
19:14
Speaker 2: You know, to this day, broadcast partner broadcast teams need
19:20
Speaker 2: to be approved by the NFL. So the executive from
19:24
Speaker 2: Amazon goes to the league and he says, you know,
19:29
Speaker 2: we're going to have an alternate feed and it's going
19:30
Speaker 2: to be two women. And the guy at the league says, well,
19:36
Speaker 2: do you think that they'll be prepared, which is code
19:41
Speaker 2: for do they know what they're talking about? So he's
19:44
Speaker 2: trying to remain kind of calm, and he goes, yes,
19:48
Speaker 2: they're going to be prepared, and then the then the
19:51
Speaker 2: guy at the league says, well, you know, I can
19:53
Speaker 2: show you data that men don't want to hear about
19:56
Speaker 2: sports from from here, about football from women. And again
20:01
Speaker 2: the executive is trying to remain calm, and he goes, well,
20:05
Speaker 2: we're going to be doing this, and finally, you know,
20:09
Speaker 2: with continued pushback, finally the executive says, one of the
20:13
Speaker 2: people is in your Hall of Fame. Do you think
20:15
Speaker 2: that she knows what she's talking about? Do you think
20:18
Speaker 2: that she's going to represent herself? Well, we're doing this.
20:21
Speaker 2: And I give him and Amazon a ton of credit
20:26
Speaker 2: because they wanted it to be for Hannah Stroum and
20:31
Speaker 2: Andrea Kramer. Wasn't just written for any two women. And
20:34
Speaker 2: the reason I give Amazon credit is because we were
20:36
Speaker 2: an option. If you didn't want to listen to us,
20:38
Speaker 2: that's great, but you could not be summer to our credentials.
20:40
Speaker 2: I mean, Hannah is one of the great hosts of
20:46
Speaker 2: our time, and that's what made her such a great
20:49
Speaker 2: play by play person, being able to get in and
20:51
Speaker 2: out of any situation. And I don't know if people
20:56
Speaker 2: could even remotely relate to how difficult it is to
20:59
Speaker 2: call a game when it's the feed from somebody else
21:04
Speaker 2: and you don't know. For me, I'm trying to do replays,
21:07
Speaker 2: I don't know what's coming. I'd be in commercial and
21:10
Speaker 2: they'd be showing something and I'm getting ready what I
21:13
Speaker 2: want to say. Then we come out of commercial and
21:15
Speaker 2: either they'd use another replay or not a replay at all.
21:18
Speaker 2: It was really challenging. And were we good the first game?
21:22
Speaker 1: We were?
21:23
Speaker 2: Do we get better this second week? Yeah? And the
21:25
Speaker 2: third week and every week I think we improved. What
21:28
Speaker 2: disappoints me that is that after our run on that
21:33
Speaker 2: that we didn't get any other opportunities, nor did any
21:36
Speaker 2: other women. It's always been one offs or things of
21:40
Speaker 2: that nature. And we did four full years, including first
21:45
Speaker 2: round playoff games. Of calling games, and I'm really proud
21:48
Speaker 2: of what we did. I just I wish that you know,
21:53
Speaker 2: it's still it's still my dream I'm allowed to dream.
21:55
Speaker 2: I have in my office where is it little flag
22:02
Speaker 2: it says I believe in make believe in my land
22:05
Speaker 2: of make Believe. One day I'm still gonna call a
22:07
Speaker 2: super Bowl. And you know, I don't care if it's
22:10
Speaker 2: like the tenth option on there, but I can still
22:13
Speaker 2: I can still live in the land of make believe,
22:15
Speaker 2: in dream those things. But to answer your original question, yeah,
22:19
Speaker 2: I've always wanted to make sure that I comport myself
22:22
Speaker 2: in the most professional way so that other women can
22:26
Speaker 2: hopefully try to emulate that and do even greater things
22:30
Speaker 2: than I did.
22:32
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's remarkable how far we've come, but
22:34
Speaker 1: also where we're still in the same places inso much
22:38
Speaker 1: as you know, the fact that there's still so many
22:41
Speaker 1: opportunities for first is a little bit embarrassing. I will
22:44
Speaker 1: say in baseball, we have had some women call some games,
22:47
Speaker 1: and you know, what they've done excellent and I don't
22:50
Speaker 1: think anyone it doesn't miss a beat. We're starting to
22:52
Speaker 1: see female umpires and you just breaking some ground We've
22:55
Speaker 1: had a female now who is a coach, but it's
22:58
Speaker 1: still all these one offs, and hopefully this will just
23:00
Speaker 1: become part of the lexicon of the sports which we love,
23:04
Speaker 1: which is just the most qualified people will get these
23:06
Speaker 1: great opportunities.
23:07
Speaker 2: Well, our producer back then, I forget what the exact
23:13
Speaker 2: number was, but she found out the number of games
23:17
Speaker 2: that had been broadcast NFL games that had been broadcast
23:22
Speaker 2: up until twenty eighteen. I mean it was tens of
23:25
Speaker 2: thousands of game fifty whatever the number was. And she said,
23:29
Speaker 2: over the course of those broadcasts, think of all the innovations,
23:34
Speaker 2: the yellow line and skycam, I mean, all the different
23:39
Speaker 2: innovations from the presentation of NFL games. And this was
23:45
Speaker 2: the first time you have ever ever had an all
23:46
Speaker 2: female booth. I mean, how crazy is that. So about
23:50
Speaker 2: two days before our first game, I get an email.
23:55
Speaker 2: I don't know how the guy found my email address,
23:59
Speaker 2: but it basically said I still have it. It basically said,
24:05
Speaker 2: I just want to wish you and Hannah all the best.
24:09
Speaker 2: Please know that when little girls wake up on Friday morning,
24:14
Speaker 2: the day after your broadcast, they will know that an
24:18
Speaker 2: entirely new dream is possible. How did I look at you,
24:21
Speaker 2: and they were like crying. You know, oh my god.
24:24
Speaker 2: Talk about the pressure that you feel. It's one thing
24:26
Speaker 2: to get everything right, but now you feel like you're
24:28
Speaker 2: carrying your gender on your shoulders. But it was, it was,
24:34
Speaker 2: it was a great experience.
24:36
Speaker 1: Well, Andrea, if I'm being completely honest with you, before
24:39
Speaker 1: I came on to join you, I asked my wife
24:42
Speaker 1: whether it was appropriate to ask you the question I
24:45
Speaker 1: asked you about your sense of responsibility and burden that
24:48
Speaker 1: you've carried, because.
24:49
Speaker 2: Why would you question that?
24:50
Speaker 1: Of course, I just felt like that, you know, as
24:52
Speaker 1: somebody who hasn't had the same challenges and difficulties. I've
24:56
Speaker 1: had my own, but like, nothing compared to that as daunting.
24:58
Speaker 1: I just didn't know if there was an incense secunity
25:00
Speaker 1: around it.
25:01
Speaker 2: No, no, no, I appreciate that. It's just it's just
25:03
Speaker 2: there's there's more women than ever. More isn't always great
25:08
Speaker 2: because I don't want people to be hired just because
25:11
Speaker 2: of their gender. I want them to be hired because
25:12
Speaker 2: they're good, because they're hard working. And listen, I'm very
25:16
Speaker 2: honest with young women. I say, if you're hired for
25:21
Speaker 2: your looks, you are doomed to lose them. If you're
25:24
Speaker 2: hired for your knowledge, your credibility, your reputation, you can
25:27
Speaker 2: only build it that way. And I'm not being cute
25:29
Speaker 2: when I say this. I don't think that anyone's ever
25:33
Speaker 2: gonna look at me throughout my career and say, you know,
25:36
Speaker 2: she resired. She resired for her looks. I think I'm
25:38
Speaker 2: telegenic enough, but I always wanted to focus on the product.
25:43
Speaker 2: I always wanted to put the best product out there,
25:45
Speaker 2: and I was going to outwork anybody. And that's what
25:48
Speaker 2: was very, very meaningful to me.
25:51
Speaker 3: Now.
25:53
Speaker 2: I grew up in this business, as did a number
25:56
Speaker 2: of my peers, without social media, because I can imagine
26:02
Speaker 2: that having to deal with that is something very very daunting.
26:08
Speaker 2: So last year, I was inducted into both the National
26:13
Speaker 2: Sports Media Association Hall of Fame and the Sports Broadcasting
26:16
Speaker 2: Hall of Fame, and there are two very different audiences.
26:19
Speaker 2: Sports Broadcasting is really your peers. National Sports Media Association
26:25
Speaker 2: is an audience that has a lot of young aspiring journalists.
26:29
Speaker 2: And during the day I did a panel that I
26:33
Speaker 2: try to meet as many people as I could. So
26:35
Speaker 2: you've got to tailor your speech to your audience. So
26:39
Speaker 2: at the end of my speech at National Sports Media Association,
26:44
Speaker 2: I said, for the young journalists out there, particularly the
26:46
Speaker 2: young women, please keep this in mind. Do not build
26:50
Speaker 2: your brand at the expense of building your reputation. And
26:55
Speaker 2: I repeated it, do not build your brand at the
26:58
Speaker 2: expense of building your reputation. Then I explained what I
27:02
Speaker 2: meant with that. So Joe Buck got inducted as well,
27:05
Speaker 2: and he texted me the next day and he goes,
27:07
Speaker 2: I want you to know that of all the things
27:09
Speaker 2: I heard over the entire week, and the single most
27:12
Speaker 2: meaningful thing was what you said about branded reputation and
27:15
Speaker 2: I believe it wholeheartedly. You can call me a dinosaur
27:18
Speaker 2: or whatever it is, but again, your reputation is all
27:22
Speaker 2: you can go on, and even in your profession, really
27:25
Speaker 2: in any profession. But once, reputations are very very easy
27:30
Speaker 2: to build and very hard to break. And the pressure
27:34
Speaker 2: on young people, especially young women, got to followers, followers, followers.
27:40
Speaker 2: That's great. I understand the importance of it, but again,
27:45
Speaker 2: what are you going to do to get those followers?
27:48
Speaker 2: Don't be compromising yourself and who you want to be,
27:52
Speaker 2: who you want to represent, because you want to get
27:54
Speaker 2: more followers.
27:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I've always felt that the
27:59
Speaker 1: measure I'm trying to hold myself to is who I am,
28:02
Speaker 1: not what I do, And I think sometimes people conflate
28:05
Speaker 1: the two in the sense that got I was very
28:07
Speaker 1: blessed to be a general manager from major league team.
28:10
Speaker 1: It was a dream come true. But that was a title,
28:12
Speaker 1: and people revered the title. I got some things in
28:16
Speaker 1: my life that I would never envisioned getting because of
28:19
Speaker 1: that title, but it wasn't because of me, and the
28:22
Speaker 1: minute the title was gone, still those things were still
28:25
Speaker 1: ascribed to that title, and what was left was who
28:27
Speaker 1: I am, And so I am proud of who I am,
28:30
Speaker 1: but it was not intrinsically linked to that title in
28:33
Speaker 1: any point. I knew I was a temporary holder of
28:35
Speaker 1: that title and I was not entitled to it for imperpetuity.
28:39
Speaker 1: But I think it aligns a lot with the message
28:42
Speaker 1: you just gave. Thank you to Andrew for her generosity
28:53
Speaker 1: and what a wonderful conversation. And now we're shifting our
28:55
Speaker 1: attention to the vaunted segment where we yet listener questions
29:00
Speaker 1: rated by producer Wyatt Whyatt kick us off?
29:03
Speaker 3: First question is from Ryan in Columbus, Ohio. With the
29:08
Speaker 3: Falcons notifying Kirk Cousins that he'll be released. From a
29:12
Speaker 3: front office perspective, what do you make of a player
29:14
Speaker 3: who maximizes his earning potential the way Cousins has, especially
29:19
Speaker 3: if he retires as one of the highest paid quarterbacks ever.
29:24
Speaker 1: You know, this is a great question from Ryan, because
29:26
Speaker 1: I think this has been a debate over the last
29:28
Speaker 1: five to six years. Which is, as we've all seen
29:31
Speaker 1: Kirk Cousin climb the ranks of the highest paid quarterbacks,
29:36
Speaker 1: it doesn't perfectly align with his where he ranks in
29:40
Speaker 1: terms of overall performance and specifically, just taking a look
29:43
Speaker 1: at the charts here, Cousins ranks third time, third all
29:48
Speaker 1: time in terms of career earnings from quarterbacks, with a
29:51
Speaker 1: whopping three hundred and twenty one four hundred and sixty
29:54
Speaker 1: nine thousand dollars worth of career earnings, which is just
29:57
Speaker 1: an absolute staggering figure, made more st by the fact
30:00
Speaker 1: that it's only behind Matthew Stafford and Aaron Rodgers, so
30:04
Speaker 1: notably ahead of such Hall of Fame icons as Tom Brady,
30:08
Speaker 1: future Hall of Famer Drew Brees, Peyton Manning. He is
30:12
Speaker 1: ahead of those guys, which seems quite striking. Then if
30:16
Speaker 1: you look Atate Nate Silver, and I don't know exactly
30:19
Speaker 1: what the perfect analogous status to Warren baseball, but I
30:24
Speaker 1: looked at Nate Silver's Hugh Bert rating and he ranks
30:30
Speaker 1: he ranks thirty ninth all time in quarterbacks. So once again,
30:33
Speaker 1: he was the third highest in career earnings, thirty ninth
30:36
Speaker 1: in career performance at the position. I think it's easy
30:39
Speaker 1: to say, well, Dan Felts and Dan Marino played in
30:41
Speaker 1: a different era. Okay, so he's also eight most valuable
30:45
Speaker 1: according to Nate Silver in terms of active quarterbacks, and
30:50
Speaker 1: he may ultimately get passed by by a handful of
30:52
Speaker 1: guys who are currently playing the game and who are
30:54
Speaker 1: tracking exceptionally well, so that just as a reference point,
30:58
Speaker 1: he ranks just below Lamar Jackson despite having played twice
31:03
Speaker 1: as long a career as Lamar Jackson has played so far.
31:06
Speaker 1: So there are going to be some guys who will
31:08
Speaker 1: pass him by, but they're not going to probably pass
31:10
Speaker 1: him by in the total learnings, or at least not
31:13
Speaker 1: unless they have a much longer career. So the question
31:16
Speaker 1: I ask is, so how did he get to a
31:17
Speaker 1: point where he's earned so much despite the fact that
31:20
Speaker 1: he's never really sat atop the list of being the
31:23
Speaker 1: best in his generation. And I guess the answer is
31:26
Speaker 1: once he got through his first four year contract, his
31:30
Speaker 1: rookie contract with the Washington then Redskins now Commanders, they
31:34
Speaker 1: placed a franchise tack on him in back to back year,
31:37
Speaker 1: so he started optimizing his earning year over year. He
31:41
Speaker 1: then ultimately signed a three year free agent deal with
31:44
Speaker 1: the Vikings, followed up by a two year deal and
31:46
Speaker 1: a one year deal. So while some of the quarterbacks
31:48
Speaker 1: in the game are signing five, six, seven year deals,
31:52
Speaker 1: he was renegotiating about every two seasons throughout his career.
31:55
Speaker 1: He then famously signed the four year deal with the
31:58
Speaker 1: Falcons when he was thirty six years old. He ultimately
32:01
Speaker 1: will play two seasons with them. They just announced they're
32:03
Speaker 1: going to release him. So over the two years they
32:07
Speaker 1: will pay him approximately ninety million dollars. He starts twenty
32:10
Speaker 1: two games from so they were paying him approximately four
32:13
Speaker 1: million per start or seven point five million dollars per
32:17
Speaker 1: win that he accumulated. He had twelve wins over two
32:20
Speaker 1: years with the Falcons. I also looked up another staggering figure.
32:24
Speaker 1: Over his career, he ends up winning one playoff game.
32:29
Speaker 1: He's won one playoff game, so he's making close to
32:32
Speaker 1: three hundred and twenty one million dollars in his career,
32:34
Speaker 1: also known as three hundred and twenty one million dollars
32:37
Speaker 1: per career playoff win, an unbelievable dollar amount to have
32:42
Speaker 1: accumulated by Kirk Cousins, a player who undeniably was always
32:46
Speaker 1: regarded as a very good quarterback in his career but
32:49
Speaker 1: probably never deemed delete. But somehow he has worked his
32:52
Speaker 1: way to be on a lexicon, a mount rushmore of
32:56
Speaker 1: earning that supersedes guys like Tom Brady, who is going
33:00
Speaker 1: to waltz into the Hall of Fame as the most
33:03
Speaker 1: decorated quarterback in the modern era.
33:06
Speaker 3: Yep, pretty crazy to look at all those numbers. That
33:09
Speaker 3: next question is from Melissa in Scottsdale. With Max Crosby
33:14
Speaker 3: reportedly on the trading block, what is the executive process?
33:18
Speaker 3: Like how involved is the agent and how much does
33:21
Speaker 3: media speculation impact real negotiations?
33:25
Speaker 1: So I think this is something that is really unique
33:28
Speaker 1: to football more so than you see in baseball, which
33:30
Speaker 1: is to say that all of this is unfolding so publicly.
33:34
Speaker 1: So I can give you a baseball perspective of what's
33:36
Speaker 1: happening here, but I do find it equally fascinating as
33:41
Speaker 1: to what's going on in the NFL, because it was
33:43
Speaker 1: so rare in baseball that players demanded trades, even more
33:47
Speaker 1: rare that a team would effectively announce that the player
33:50
Speaker 1: was on the trading block. So I think what the
33:52
Speaker 1: team's trying to accomplish here is they are trying to
33:55
Speaker 1: gauge the interest level what they could get in return
33:59
Speaker 1: for Max Kraw. The most efficient way to do that
34:02
Speaker 1: is to do exactly what they've done, which is to
34:04
Speaker 1: announce it they're open minded to trading him. The harm
34:07
Speaker 1: is done to the player at that point. The harm
34:09
Speaker 1: is done to the relationship that the team has with
34:12
Speaker 1: the player, because now the player realizes that this is
34:15
Speaker 1: a business, and of course we all intrinsically know that
34:19
Speaker 1: it is in business. But when we talk often to
34:23
Speaker 1: our players, we talk about respecting the name on the front,
34:25
Speaker 1: which is the team name, maybe even more so than
34:28
Speaker 1: the name on the back, which is the individual's name.
34:31
Speaker 1: Once you put a player on the trade block, you've
34:33
Speaker 1: really eradicated that and now all of a sudden the player,
34:36
Speaker 1: understandably so is singularly focused on the name on the back,
34:39
Speaker 1: But it is a very efficient way to try to
34:41
Speaker 1: figure out what you could get in return, because the
34:44
Speaker 1: last thing you'd want to do is to trade a
34:45
Speaker 1: player like Max Crosby without blanketing the league understanding exactly
34:50
Speaker 1: what the value is of that type of player. So
34:53
Speaker 1: while in episodes far in the past we were a
34:56
Speaker 1: little bit critical of how the Dallas and Mavericks handled
34:59
Speaker 1: the try trading of Luka Doncic, in which they almost
35:02
Speaker 1: didn't tell anybody they were trading him and then ultimately
35:06
Speaker 1: made what seemed to be a less than optimal trade,
35:09
Speaker 1: in this case, the Las Vegas Raiders are actually telling
35:12
Speaker 1: the entire league that this guy is available, and they
35:15
Speaker 1: in what they are looking for now. I think is
35:17
Speaker 1: similar to our conversation once again in episodes past about
35:21
Speaker 1: Micah Parsons. I think they're putting the league on notice
35:24
Speaker 1: that they view him as a similar quality edge rusher,
35:28
Speaker 1: somebody who should garner a similar return, and at the
35:31
Speaker 1: league meets those demands, my guess is you're going to
35:33
Speaker 1: see Max Crosby get traded, but they're going to hold
35:36
Speaker 1: a very high standard for him, and then why, As
35:39
Speaker 1: you referenced in the question, there's a lot of other
35:42
Speaker 1: constituents involved here. Ownership is going to play a major role.
35:45
Speaker 1: The agent is now feverishly going to work to try
35:48
Speaker 1: to make sure that Max finds himself in the best
35:51
Speaker 1: position to get a contract extension to their liking. And
35:54
Speaker 1: then the media is this is playing out in the media,
35:56
Speaker 1: and then fans pundit's experts are going to weigh in
35:59
Speaker 1: a return. But my guess is based upon when you
36:04
Speaker 1: do this in sports, there is a method to the madness,
36:07
Speaker 1: and the method is you're now going to get teams
36:09
Speaker 1: that otherwise may not have been on Max Crosby to
36:12
Speaker 1: come out of the woodworks because there's going to be
36:14
Speaker 1: a perceived and a reality that there's excessive competition for him.
36:19
Speaker 1: He's an excellent player, he will be heavily sought after.
36:22
Speaker 1: This is best done when the goal is to ultimately
36:25
Speaker 1: trade the player. If you ultimately end up retaining the player,
36:29
Speaker 1: there's probably some freight relations, there's some fences to be mended,
36:33
Speaker 1: and you probably have put the player in a position
36:35
Speaker 1: where he is a little bit disengaged from the team
36:37
Speaker 1: and less likely to sign an extension with that same team.
36:42
Speaker 3: All right, last question, This one's from Tom and Charlotte.
36:47
Speaker 3: Tom wants to know at this point in spring training,
36:50
Speaker 3: what's really going on inside camp that fans don't see.
36:55
Speaker 3: Is this evaluation mode, roster, competition mode, conditioning, what our
37:00
Speaker 3: front offices and coaching staff's focused on right now.
37:03
Speaker 1: So I think it's a wonderful question from Tom, because
37:06
Speaker 1: I would say they're really three phases to spring training.
37:09
Speaker 1: The first phase is the onboarding. There's a lot of
37:12
Speaker 1: medical work that's being done. You're negotiating contracts to retain
37:16
Speaker 1: your existing players. That's happening. You're also doing a lot
37:20
Speaker 1: of drilling on the backfields. This is the one time
37:22
Speaker 1: of year where we're doing a lot of base running drills,
37:25
Speaker 1: outfield drills. The pitchers are actually taking defense defensive drills.
37:29
Speaker 1: You're building up your pitcher's arms. Now we're in the
37:32
Speaker 1: second phase of things. We're starting to play games, and
37:35
Speaker 1: so we're now shifting, as Tom reference to an evaluation mode.
37:39
Speaker 1: And really the evaluations is on a few levels. One
37:42
Speaker 1: is fundamentally we think of it as we've got to
37:45
Speaker 1: cut down. What is about a sixty man camp sixty
37:49
Speaker 1: players are in camp, and they're competing ostensibly for twenty
37:51
Speaker 1: six spots. In practice, most teams, especially the ones that
37:55
Speaker 1: are competitive right now, probably have about eighteen to twenty
37:59
Speaker 1: of those spots are already spoken for, and so there's
38:02
Speaker 1: really competition for the remaining five, six, eight, eight spots,
38:05
Speaker 1: and we're really focusing our tension there. But where we
38:08
Speaker 1: spend more of our time is trying to understand what's
38:10
Speaker 1: our next line of defense and what's the line of
38:13
Speaker 1: defense after that. Every team sustains injuries or performance setbacks.
38:19
Speaker 1: No team makes it through the season, and that with
38:21
Speaker 1: those twenty six players, especially on the pitching side, you
38:24
Speaker 1: really want to line up if you're breaking camp with
38:27
Speaker 1: thirteen pitchers, what a pitcher's fourteen through about twenty five
38:31
Speaker 1: look like, because you're going to have to dip into
38:32
Speaker 1: that level of depth throughout the course of the season. Now,
38:35
Speaker 1: one thing Tom that is a nuance of this season
38:38
Speaker 1: that is factored in is come about February twenty seventh,
38:43
Speaker 1: twenty eighth, there's the WBC that's taking place, the World
38:46
Speaker 1: Baseball Classic, and so every camp is losing a certain
38:50
Speaker 1: number of their players who will go perform for their countries.
38:54
Speaker 1: So we then we lose those players, we lose sight
38:57
Speaker 1: of those players, and so you're developing your working with
39:00
Speaker 1: the coaches of those teams to understand what roles those
39:03
Speaker 1: players will play on the teams, devising a development strategy
39:06
Speaker 1: so that they can get their requisite number of play
39:08
Speaker 1: appearances or innings pinched built up by the end of camp.
39:12
Speaker 1: But you no longer have a jurisdiction of those players
39:15
Speaker 1: for a period of time. So as excited as we
39:17
Speaker 1: are for the World Baseball Classic and those players play
39:21
Speaker 1: on the best stage, you either want your player who
39:25
Speaker 1: goes to honestly play a lot and play all the
39:28
Speaker 1: way to the finals, or get eliminated early and come
39:31
Speaker 1: back so that you actually will know that they will
39:33
Speaker 1: be ready to go for opening day and ready to
39:36
Speaker 1: compete at the highest level for your team. So that's
39:39
Speaker 1: another little wrinkle that is taking place in this spring
39:42
Speaker 1: training that is a little bit different. And then the
39:45
Speaker 1: last phase of spring training is really the sprint to
39:48
Speaker 1: the finish line. It's pairing that team down that camp
39:51
Speaker 1: down from sixty players to twenty six. By that point,
39:54
Speaker 1: you probably will have about forty to forty five left,
39:56
Speaker 1: and that's probably the last ten to fourteen days or
39:59
Speaker 1: you really start making some of those roster specific decisions.
40:03
Speaker 1: I will say sometimes players get very fixated on making
40:05
Speaker 1: that opening day roster. Executives in this case are a
40:08
Speaker 1: lot more focused on the playoff roster down the stretch
40:12
Speaker 1: and what depth you need to build out to help
40:14
Speaker 1: your team get to that vaunted space at the end
40:16
Speaker 1: of the season, which is playing meaningful games in September
40:20
Speaker 1: and ultimately playoff games in October. Thank you to our
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Speaker 1: listeners for such insightful questions, and thank you again to
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Speaker 1: Andrea Kramer. Please tune in next Thursday for part two
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Speaker 1: of our incredible conversation with Andrea Kramer here on Rosters
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Speaker 1: to Ranks.
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Speaker 4: Please join me host that levine for Roster Syrings on Apple, Spotify,
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Speaker 4: or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Speaker 2: Welcome