Latest / Dear Chelsea / Fueled by Anger with Billy Eichner

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Fueled by Anger with Billy Eichner · Dear Chelsea

0:01
Speaker 1: Hello everybody. Hello, Yo, Hi Chelsea, Hi, Hi, how are you?
0:07
Speaker 2: Oh?
0:07
Speaker 1: You know all over the shop? I'm all over the shop.
0:11
Speaker 3: Indeed, Chelsea, can I ask you for a piece of advice?
0:14
Speaker 3: Or really it's a general question for the Hoi POLOI
0:17
Speaker 3: the hoy bleet, for our dear listeners. What's the ideal
0:21
Speaker 3: length for a dinner with friends?
0:25
Speaker 4: Well, if it's an obligatory dinner, okay, I would say
0:30
Speaker 4: ninety minutes.
0:31
Speaker 5: Okay.
0:32
Speaker 1: I like to make a dinner two hours.
0:34
Speaker 4: When you're with friends and it's not obligatory and you're
0:37
Speaker 4: catching up, I would say two hours, two and a
0:40
Speaker 4: half hours, okay. And if it goes anything longer than that,
0:43
Speaker 4: you're having a fucking blast.
0:45
Speaker 1: That is true. Lunch is better if it's obligatory, because
0:48
Speaker 1: that can.
0:48
Speaker 3: Be an yeah and everyone No one expects for that
0:50
Speaker 3: to go to in a half hours, because people.
0:52
Speaker 4: Got no, no, no, no, unless you're in Europe and everyone's
0:54
Speaker 4: shit faced, which is my kind of LuFe shit.
0:58
Speaker 3: So if you're ready for people to leave, Let's say
1:01
Speaker 3: you had a dinner at your house, and.
1:02
Speaker 1: I already that.
1:03
Speaker 4: I don't do that anymore for that reason. But I
1:06
Speaker 4: actually haven't had a house at a long time. I
1:07
Speaker 4: mean I've been in that rental house. I was in
1:09
Speaker 4: that rental house for two years, so I wasn't really
1:12
Speaker 4: into entertaining there. I have had people over for dinner,
1:15
Speaker 4: like for certain you know, but very casually, not dinner parties.
1:18
Speaker 4: When I had my old house, I would I would
1:20
Speaker 4: have dinner parties a lot. So I hope that when
1:22
Speaker 4: I move into my new house, I will continue to
1:25
Speaker 4: do the same thing.
1:25
Speaker 1: I'm sure I.
1:26
Speaker 4: Will, because then i'll have you'll have your own, my
1:28
Speaker 4: own prime. And I don't like showing off a rental house,
1:31
Speaker 4: right right, Not that I have people over to show
1:33
Speaker 4: off my house, but there it feels more like you're
1:35
Speaker 4: it's representative of.
1:36
Speaker 1: Who you are, totally.
1:38
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:38
Speaker 4: So like my rental house feels like I'm in an
1:40
Speaker 4: apartment that I don't know about.
1:41
Speaker 1: Like and I don't know my way around.
1:43
Speaker 5: Yeah.
1:43
Speaker 3: Well, and I know that when we were in MAYORCA
1:46
Speaker 3: with you, when you were ready for the party to
1:48
Speaker 3: be over or you were done with the dinner, you would.
1:51
Speaker 5: Just go to bed, which yeah, yeah, I've done.
1:53
Speaker 1: That's my move. I just go to sleep, And I
1:54
Speaker 1: don't mind if people hang out without me. You know,
1:57
Speaker 1: like at my house. Oh see that's great. Yeah, so
2:01
Speaker 1: what I'm done.
2:02
Speaker 4: I mean, I do go to bed early, you know,
2:04
Speaker 4: I typically like even, but in my Orca like early
2:07
Speaker 4: is like eleven o'clock.
2:09
Speaker 1: But yeah, I don't stay up late. It's just not
2:13
Speaker 1: my thing.
2:13
Speaker 3: We've had a couple of times recently where we've had
2:15
Speaker 3: people over and I'm like, okay, there's like the few
2:18
Speaker 3: stragglers and I'm like, what is the thing that you
2:21
Speaker 3: say to be like it's time to leave?
2:23
Speaker 4: If you just have to say I'm wrapping it up.
2:25
Speaker 4: You guys are welcome to stay, but I've got to
2:26
Speaker 4: get into bed.
2:27
Speaker 5: Oh I love that and I love it.
2:28
Speaker 4: And then they can decide if they want to hang
2:30
Speaker 4: out while you're in bed in your own house. Yeah,
2:32
Speaker 4: you know which to me, Actually, I love having people around,
2:36
Speaker 4: but it's like I'm not I can't be beholden too
2:38
Speaker 4: the situation for too long.
2:40
Speaker 5: Yeah.
2:40
Speaker 4: Yeah, I know what you mean. You kind of got
2:42
Speaker 4: to get it rid of people sometimes.
2:43
Speaker 5: Yeah.
2:44
Speaker 3: Well, we have a very exciting guest today.
2:48
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, very very funny. Little birdie in a tree.
2:51
Speaker 4: His name you might recognize him from how many things?
2:54
Speaker 4: As would you recognize he's an actor, writer, producer, Billy.
2:57
Speaker 1: I can never well, I'm happy to see you you.
3:00
Speaker 5: Ever be we've met, not in person.
3:02
Speaker 1: I don't think it can't be possible, I know, but.
3:05
Speaker 6: I don't think we did ever. Maybe No, wait, I
3:10
Speaker 6: think we maybe did at March for our Lives in DC.
3:15
Speaker 5: Okay, were you there?
3:16
Speaker 1: Sounds about right?
3:17
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think I met you very briefly. Wow, Charlie's
3:21
Speaker 6: was there?
3:21
Speaker 1: Yes, Yes, a group of us went.
3:23
Speaker 5: We were like in a big group.
3:26
Speaker 1: That's when marches first started happening again.
3:29
Speaker 5: Now we're desensitized. Oh another march.
3:33
Speaker 1: This world is so it is that we're living in
3:36
Speaker 1: it is.
3:37
Speaker 4: I'm like, the more depressing it becomes, the more optimistic
3:41
Speaker 4: I become because I took good thing I have to.
3:44
Speaker 4: I can't go down that road again from like when
3:47
Speaker 4: I talk about that, I mean when Trump was president,
3:50
Speaker 4: but all the dissension, the divisiveness, the hate, the meanness,
3:54
Speaker 4: the discrimination, Like I can't even look at it for
3:57
Speaker 4: too long.
3:58
Speaker 1: And I've understood now how important is to.
4:01
Speaker 4: Remain optimistic and invoke hope and other people, even if
4:06
Speaker 4: it's faking it. I want other people to feel better
4:09
Speaker 4: after they see me.
4:10
Speaker 6: Yeah, No, you're right. I mean, God, who knew it?
4:14
Speaker 6: March for our lives? Like how much worse it would be?
4:17
Speaker 1: How much marching we were going to have to do
4:19
Speaker 1: about everything?
4:20
Speaker 5: Yeah, nothing is really a wake up call.
4:22
Speaker 4: That's the problem, because everything is so ephemeral, and I
4:25
Speaker 4: think that is a direct result of well, I would
4:28
Speaker 4: say the Kardashians, but I would say more social media.
4:31
Speaker 5: Right, I was just going to say it's social media.
4:34
Speaker 4: Nothing seems important because no one cares about anything because
4:38
Speaker 4: there's such an influx of information that who what are
4:41
Speaker 4: you supposed.
4:41
Speaker 1: To care about? And I'm happier like Billy Iikner. I
4:46
Speaker 1: want to talk to you.
4:46
Speaker 4: First of all, congratulations on the first major gay movie production.
4:51
Speaker 5: Thank you.
4:51
Speaker 4: I wanted to specifically talk to you about a scene
4:54
Speaker 4: in the movie where you talk about confidence, huh, because
4:57
Speaker 4: Catherine agreed that that was a very poignant part of
4:59
Speaker 4: the movie. And I want to talk to you about
5:02
Speaker 4: confidence because the conversation talks about whether you're faking it
5:06
Speaker 4: or whether you have it, and I find those two
5:09
Speaker 4: things to blend together a pretty right.
5:12
Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, it is essentially fake it till you
5:15
Speaker 6: make it, and anyone in show business understands that. I think,
5:19
Speaker 6: I mean, you have to in order to keep going.
5:22
Speaker 6: But I'm talking about how confidence is a choice like
5:26
Speaker 6: any other, and it really is you have to wake
5:29
Speaker 6: up and decide to be confident. It's not like you're
5:32
Speaker 6: born with it.
5:33
Speaker 4: You know, it's not a tree, not you guys. It's
5:36
Speaker 4: not much more serious than that. But I do think
5:39
Speaker 4: it's an interesting topic because there's arrogance, right, which is
5:43
Speaker 4: different than confidence.
5:44
Speaker 1: Arrogance.
5:45
Speaker 4: I've been very guilty of arrogance in my life likewise,
5:48
Speaker 4: and I've also had a lot of confidence too, And
5:51
Speaker 4: some people say, oh, you know.
5:53
Speaker 1: Those two things can get money as well.
5:56
Speaker 4: And I think from an early age you kind of
5:59
Speaker 4: decide what kind of person you are naturally, and as
6:04
Speaker 4: you get older, you're kind of always if you're looking within,
6:08
Speaker 4: you're trying to chip away or add and make that
6:11
Speaker 4: person the potential of who you can be, right, the
6:14
Speaker 4: best potential of who you can be. Yeah, So tell
6:17
Speaker 4: me about your kind of experience with that.
6:20
Speaker 1: Do you go to therapy? Do you have a therapist?
6:22
Speaker 6: I do, although only I started therapy about a year
6:28
Speaker 6: and a half ago for the first time ever in
6:31
Speaker 6: my life, and I was always very pro therapy. I
6:36
Speaker 6: lost both of my parents, but just even then, never
6:39
Speaker 6: felt the need to go to therapy until about a
6:42
Speaker 6: year and a half ago, and I'm glad that I did.
6:45
Speaker 5: It's great.
6:47
Speaker 4: How did you decide that you needed to go to therapy?
6:50
Speaker 4: What was happening in your life that you decided, If.
6:53
Speaker 6: You want to know the truth, it was. We had
6:57
Speaker 6: just wrapped shooting. It was challenging. It was really hard,
7:02
Speaker 6: and sometimes it would really stress me out, and my
7:06
Speaker 6: anxiety about it was, I think, looking back, irrational sometimes,
7:12
Speaker 6: but I just put so much pressure on myself and
7:14
Speaker 6: I wanted it to be so many things, and that
7:17
Speaker 6: movie had very specific challenges, you know, like stay honest
7:21
Speaker 6: for the gay people and for yourself, but make it
7:25
Speaker 6: clear for straight people and you know, not alienating. And
7:29
Speaker 6: I lost sleep at night worrying about studio notes and
7:32
Speaker 6: things like that. So I got through the writing process
7:35
Speaker 6: we shot the movie. Shooting the movie was wonderful, and
7:39
Speaker 6: the cast was incredible, and the whole cast was openly LGBTQ,
7:43
Speaker 6: which never happens, and so the set felt felt very special.
7:47
Speaker 6: We got to shoot it in New York that was magical.
7:50
Speaker 6: But when we wrapped the movie. I was really worried
7:54
Speaker 6: about the post production process and about editing the movie
8:00
Speaker 6: because I thought, Okay, well, I was a co writer,
8:02
Speaker 6: so I had some control over the script, and I'm acting.
8:05
Speaker 5: In the movie.
8:06
Speaker 6: I'm starring in the movie, and I've been on many
8:08
Speaker 6: sets and I've acted in many things. So the shooting
8:10
Speaker 6: of the movie I felt good about. But the editing process,
8:14
Speaker 6: I thought, I don't have power here. Technically, I'm not
8:18
Speaker 6: the director, I'm not an editor.
8:20
Speaker 5: I'm an EP. But EP is kind of a bullshit thing.
8:23
Speaker 6: And I thought, oh god, I'm going to lose control
8:25
Speaker 6: of the movie over the quality of the movie, which
8:29
Speaker 6: actually didn't happen at all, and so many things that
8:33
Speaker 6: I it was interesting. So many things that I worried
8:35
Speaker 6: about ended up being things I did not need to
8:38
Speaker 6: worry about, and things I never really thought about ended
8:41
Speaker 6: up being things maybe I should have thought about more.
8:44
Speaker 6: But I got a therapist because I was so worried
8:48
Speaker 6: about the post production, which is really where the movie
8:50
Speaker 6: comes together. The movie can live and die in the
8:52
Speaker 6: editing room, and I was so stressed about that that
8:56
Speaker 6: I thought I am going to get a therapist. At
8:58
Speaker 6: the beginning of this process to help me navigate all
9:02
Speaker 6: of this, because there were times where I would get
9:06
Speaker 6: into my car after a meeting or something and I
9:08
Speaker 6: would like get into a fetal position. I was like
9:12
Speaker 6: so stressed, and that's why I got a therapist, honestly,
9:16
Speaker 6: was to guide me through that process. And I'm really
9:19
Speaker 6: glad I did.
9:20
Speaker 1: And within your therapy did the death of your parents.
9:23
Speaker 4: Obviously that's something a topic that you have to discuss
9:26
Speaker 4: in therapy, right How no were you?
9:27
Speaker 2: Can?
9:28
Speaker 1: I ask you how old you were?
9:28
Speaker 4: Sure?
9:29
Speaker 6: I was young when my mom died. I was twenty
9:31
Speaker 6: years old when my mom died. I was in college
9:34
Speaker 6: and it happened out of nowhere. She had a heart
9:36
Speaker 6: attack and died. Which is that you know, people have
9:40
Speaker 6: parents died at a younger age. It's very different to
9:43
Speaker 6: have a parent die when you're five than to have
9:45
Speaker 6: a parent die when you're twenty. I had my mom
9:48
Speaker 6: through my formative childhood years and teenage years and she
9:52
Speaker 6: was fantastic, But twenty is still young. And then my dad,
9:57
Speaker 6: my dad was older than my mom, had me late
10:00
Speaker 6: later in life, so he died about eleven twelve years ago.
10:04
Speaker 6: He was eighty, you know, he wasn't young, but also
10:10
Speaker 6: was somewhat unexpected.
10:12
Speaker 5: He was pretty healthy for.
10:13
Speaker 6: An eighty year old, and all of a sudden was
10:16
Speaker 6: diagnosed with leukemia. The doctor said he has two to
10:19
Speaker 6: nine months to live, and less than three months later
10:22
Speaker 6: he was gone. So but you know, strangely enough, I
10:27
Speaker 6: haven't really talked about that in therapy much.
10:30
Speaker 1: Really.
10:31
Speaker 5: Yeah, he's my.
10:32
Speaker 6: Therapist, isn't very he'sn't like one of these like let's
10:35
Speaker 6: deal with your childhood types of guys. It's more practical,
10:39
Speaker 6: like the day to day Uh huh, you know, for
10:42
Speaker 6: better or worse.
10:42
Speaker 5: I don't know.
10:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I think I think all of that stuff.
10:46
Speaker 4: You know, I think, well, when it happens when you're twenty,
10:48
Speaker 4: I think you're still a baby. You know, that trauma
10:53
Speaker 4: when someone's snatched away from you in your life, it
10:56
Speaker 4: is definitely traumatic. But yeah, there are all sorts of
10:59
Speaker 4: different types of therapy. From what I gleaned from therapy,
11:02
Speaker 4: which was a lot.
11:04
Speaker 1: If you don't deal with your.
11:05
Speaker 4: Trauma, it will deal with you at a certain point,
11:07
Speaker 4: and it'll deal with you in situations like you're talking about,
11:10
Speaker 4: like where we get in our heads and we're totally
11:12
Speaker 4: stressed out because our trauma does work for us for
11:15
Speaker 4: a while, because that's your motivation. Like you almost have
11:17
Speaker 4: more gas because you've been so hurt or you've.
11:21
Speaker 1: Felt such loss that you're even more motivated.
11:24
Speaker 6: Anger can be such a motivated factor. Yeah, both creatively
11:28
Speaker 6: for me. I mean, I've really leaned into anger as
11:32
Speaker 6: a comedic tool. Obviously I did in my early live
11:36
Speaker 6: stage shows in New York, So that persona I realized
11:40
Speaker 6: kind of early on, not as an actor per se,
11:43
Speaker 6: but as a comedian. Once I had to generate my
11:45
Speaker 6: own material, people really loved it. The angrier I got,
11:49
Speaker 6: the more the audience loved it. And I thought, oh,
11:52
Speaker 6: that's interesting because it's really not how I am in
11:55
Speaker 6: real life. I know people always kind of don't believe that,
11:58
Speaker 6: but if you know me, the whole angry thing, it's
12:01
Speaker 6: very divorced from who I am in real life, and
12:04
Speaker 6: yet I.
12:05
Speaker 5: Can really turn it on.
12:07
Speaker 6: I'm good at it from a performance standpoint, and people
12:11
Speaker 6: really liked when I did it. And then behind the
12:14
Speaker 6: scenes anger, the rejection and all of that, you know,
12:19
Speaker 6: the oh I'm openly gay. I was always openly gay
12:23
Speaker 6: at a time in comedy, you know, twenty plus years ago,
12:27
Speaker 6: when there weren't many.
12:28
Speaker 1: Of them, only tig. It was only tigh.
12:30
Speaker 6: I mean literally there were a few. You know, Guy
12:33
Speaker 6: Brandham was around, but I didn't know him.
12:35
Speaker 1: I knew Guy, I knew guy I worked with me.
12:38
Speaker 6: Yeah, of course, and so but at the time I
12:40
Speaker 6: was looking around, you know, and I was I just
12:42
Speaker 6: didn't have many gay peers in comedy.
12:45
Speaker 5: Now there are so many.
12:47
Speaker 6: I'm so like envious of these younger kids in comedy
12:50
Speaker 6: because so many of them are gay, queer, non binary,
12:54
Speaker 6: and they have each other to lean on and to
12:56
Speaker 6: work with.
12:57
Speaker 5: I didn't.
12:57
Speaker 6: I didn't really have that, and yet that became a
13:00
Speaker 6: motivating force. Like I remember, I had a manager in
13:03
Speaker 6: New York, a straight woman actually, who told me that
13:07
Speaker 6: she was going to invite a bunch of agents to
13:09
Speaker 6: see me and asked me if I could make the
13:12
Speaker 6: show less Gay that month, right, just flat out asked me.
13:16
Speaker 6: That This was at a time. This is two thousand
13:18
Speaker 6: and six, so you could still ask that question, I guess,
13:20
Speaker 6: and not fear, you know that someone was gonna tweet
13:23
Speaker 6: about it and destroy your career. And she was asking
13:26
Speaker 6: me that because she wanted the best for me, and
13:28
Speaker 6: she thought that was in my best interest, and I
13:32
Speaker 6: did the show that month. The agents came and they
13:35
Speaker 6: signed me, and it was, you know, worked out. And
13:37
Speaker 6: she said to me, you know, I have to ask
13:39
Speaker 6: the agents. Loved it, but I think you made the
13:42
Speaker 6: show gayer this month than it's ever been. Why did
13:46
Speaker 6: you do that when I asked you to do the opposite?
13:48
Speaker 6: And I was like, I don't know. I mean I
13:50
Speaker 6: didn't sit down and say I am going to rebel
13:53
Speaker 6: against what you told me. But I think subconsciously maybe
13:56
Speaker 6: I did. I always had that in me. It was
13:59
Speaker 6: like I was that gay kid who like I loved
14:01
Speaker 6: Madonna growing up and like she was so rebellious and
14:04
Speaker 6: like I had that in me. And I also think
14:08
Speaker 6: because my parents were so supportive as a kid, they
14:12
Speaker 6: were so supportive and overprotective. It was I had a
14:16
Speaker 6: lot of unconditional love as a kid, even as a
14:18
Speaker 6: gay kid.
14:20
Speaker 5: I was really lucky.
14:21
Speaker 1: Even what age did you know that you were gay?
14:24
Speaker 6: I mean, I don't remember the exact moment I thought,
14:27
Speaker 6: oh I'm gay.
14:28
Speaker 1: You know, tell you were gay?
14:30
Speaker 5: Basically they knew.
14:31
Speaker 6: I was like, you know, when you took me to
14:32
Speaker 6: the you know, Barbar Streisan concert.
14:34
Speaker 5: I think that you knew. Well, yeah, it was exactly.
14:38
Speaker 6: The first guy I remember having a crush on was
14:41
Speaker 6: this is funny Keith Hernandez of the nineteen eighty six
14:44
Speaker 6: Oh I got that.
14:45
Speaker 1: Was the year of the World Series.
14:46
Speaker 5: Yes, and they won. And I grew up in Queens
14:49
Speaker 5: where with Gary Carter.
14:51
Speaker 1: I was obsessed with Gary Carter.
14:53
Speaker 5: It was an amazing team. Let me extra all the mookie.
14:56
Speaker 1: Well she became Coast Strawberry mookie.
14:59
Speaker 5: That's right, Yes, they became awful people.
15:01
Speaker 4: I remember seeing this like what it was before Cribs,
15:04
Speaker 4: but whenever they showcased someone's house, and they were showcasing
15:07
Speaker 4: Darryl Strawberry's apartment in New York City, and he had
15:10
Speaker 4: white leather sofas everywhere, and the whole house was decorated
15:13
Speaker 4: in a way. And even at that age, I was like,
15:15
Speaker 4: this guy is doing cocaine. I could tell by his
15:18
Speaker 4: furniture that he was fucking doing cocaine.
15:20
Speaker 2: Oh.
15:20
Speaker 6: Absolutely, and so and I remember a few years ago.
15:23
Speaker 6: So my first crush was Keith Hernandez. This was nineteen
15:26
Speaker 6: eighty six. I was eight years old, and I remember
15:29
Speaker 6: and I at the time, I wouldn't have said like, oh,
15:31
Speaker 6: I have a crush on him, but I remember just
15:35
Speaker 6: being very drawn to him, like there was an attraction.
15:40
Speaker 6: And I got so bummed because then a few years
15:42
Speaker 6: ago I saw a photo of him and his wife
15:43
Speaker 6: walking into mar A Lago. Of course, you know, it
15:46
Speaker 6: was such a bummer, but yeah, him and John bon Jovi.
15:50
Speaker 6: I really loved John bon Jovi as a kid.
15:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's hard not to do.
15:55
Speaker 5: Yeah, and he was great looking and.
15:58
Speaker 6: So yeah and so yeah, I was always like a
16:01
Speaker 6: little rebellious, and I think I needed that. That anger
16:06
Speaker 6: was a motivating.
16:07
Speaker 4: It's a driving factor for sure, because I never knew
16:10
Speaker 4: what people said when like it works until it will
16:12
Speaker 4: work for you until it doesn't. I never understood that
16:15
Speaker 4: phrase until I experienced it myself. Because my anger, my
16:18
Speaker 4: personality was a huge driving force gave me a lot
16:21
Speaker 4: of success. And then all of a sudden, it was
16:23
Speaker 4: a big dark shadow on me. You know, all of
16:25
Speaker 4: a sudden, I felt like, wait, I have it. And
16:28
Speaker 4: it was because I had unrealized you know, grief trauma.
16:31
Speaker 4: My brother died when I was a little girl, so
16:33
Speaker 4: it was all that stuff, and it's amazing how far
16:35
Speaker 4: can take you.
16:36
Speaker 1: It's just really is like lightning in a bottle.
16:39
Speaker 4: When somebody's angry and wants to get away from their feelings,
16:41
Speaker 4: they will become successful.
16:43
Speaker 5: It's true.
16:44
Speaker 6: But you have to be careful because it can end
16:46
Speaker 6: up defining you too in a way that you're not
16:50
Speaker 6: comfortable with.
16:52
Speaker 4: Well, that's yeah, and especially if you don't make the
16:54
Speaker 4: pivot or you don't like look in, you know, because
16:57
Speaker 4: it isn't the most pleasant work all the time. Anyway,
17:01
Speaker 4: We're gonna take a quick break and we'll be right back.
17:08
Speaker 5: And we're back perfect.
17:10
Speaker 1: Okay.
17:10
Speaker 4: So we give advice to real live callers on this podcast,
17:13
Speaker 4: so we have people call it hopefully curated towards Billy
17:17
Speaker 4: and his gayness.
17:18
Speaker 5: Oh boy.
17:18
Speaker 3: Our first question comes from Trev. Trev says, Dear Chelsea,
17:22
Speaker 3: First time, long time. I'm a gay man in my
17:25
Speaker 3: early fifties, and I'm married to a man who is
17:27
Speaker 3: five years my junior. The age difference doesn't really come
17:30
Speaker 3: into play often, but I'm dealing with one area of
17:32
Speaker 3: our lives that I'm starting to grow out of and
17:35
Speaker 3: he isn't, and that is alcohol. Don't get me wrong,
17:38
Speaker 3: I'm not a teetotaler. I've had plenty of wild years
17:41
Speaker 3: in my life. You name it, I drank it, snorted it,
17:43
Speaker 3: put it on my tongue, fucked it, and lived to
17:45
Speaker 3: tell the tale. I don't judge, and I believe the
17:48
Speaker 3: body and mind are fun toys and you should experience
17:51
Speaker 3: all the things they can do while you're alive. But
17:53
Speaker 3: as I'm getting older, I find myself moving away from
17:56
Speaker 3: wanting all of that, partially because I don't have the
17:58
Speaker 3: energy or patience to deal with hangovers anymore, and partially because,
18:02
Speaker 3: let's face it, a sloppy, drunk fifty something man ain't cute.
18:06
Speaker 1: Amen, sister Amen.
18:10
Speaker 3: Meanwhile, my spouse still loves to get trashed with buddies
18:13
Speaker 3: on the weekends. I used to go along with it
18:15
Speaker 3: and try to enjoy the raiders with him, but over
18:17
Speaker 3: the past year or two I realized I honestly don't
18:19
Speaker 3: enjoy getting drunk. I don't feel the need to chase
18:22
Speaker 3: that buzz anymore. My husband isn't at that point yet.
18:26
Speaker 3: Getting drunk is still kind of a hobby for him.
18:28
Speaker 3: It's how he socializes with people. I don't think he
18:31
Speaker 3: has any kind of serious problem, and he's responsible about
18:34
Speaker 3: it generally. He's only a weekend day drinker, and his
18:37
Speaker 3: drinking has never compromised his job or our household. But
18:40
Speaker 3: when he throws down, he really throws down. He knows
18:43
Speaker 3: I'm trying to bow out of the heavy drinking lifestyle.
18:46
Speaker 3: But he does provide a little pressure with like, you
18:48
Speaker 3: haven't gone to the bar with me in a long time,
18:50
Speaker 3: and our friends are starting to ask about you. I
18:53
Speaker 3: certainly don't want to give up drinking altogether. I will
18:55
Speaker 3: always like a glass of wine or a good craft cocktail,
18:58
Speaker 3: but I feel like my mind and body are both
19:00
Speaker 3: aging out of wanting to drink just to get drunk.
19:03
Speaker 3: I'm really excited about the thought of hanging out with
19:05
Speaker 3: friends without having to get shit faced. After writing all this,
19:09
Speaker 3: I need a stiff drink of kamboo chap.
19:11
Speaker 1: Thanks Trev.
19:12
Speaker 6: I was gonna say she's still on adderall because that's
19:14
Speaker 6: a very long letter, and that's the.
19:17
Speaker 5: Trimmed down version. Yeah, we got it.
19:20
Speaker 6: Yeah, you don't want to drink as much as your
19:22
Speaker 6: boyfriend got Yeah, some of.
19:24
Speaker 1: These are very long winded lately. Indeed, indeed, I'll go first.
19:28
Speaker 4: I think that if somebody if you're not into drinking,
19:30
Speaker 4: that's great, And if your partner is responsible and doing
19:34
Speaker 4: all the right things, but just gets ship faced and
19:36
Speaker 4: sloppy once a week. Then I think you can tolerate
19:39
Speaker 4: that and let him do his thing. He's going to
19:41
Speaker 4: outgrow alcohol too. Probably it happens with age. You're not
19:44
Speaker 4: as interested in getting shit faced when you're older.
19:47
Speaker 1: I mean most of the time.
19:48
Speaker 4: I think with most people, I'm trying to think of
19:50
Speaker 4: some old ship face drunks that I know, But I'm like, wait,
19:53
Speaker 4: I do.
19:54
Speaker 1: Actually know a couple old drunks. Of course I do.
19:56
Speaker 1: But yeah, I would say, let him do his thing.
19:58
Speaker 4: Nobody wants to be policed or told what to do
20:01
Speaker 4: within a relationship. And if you don't want to go
20:04
Speaker 4: to the bar with him, you could just totally be
20:05
Speaker 4: honest with him and say like, I'm not into that
20:07
Speaker 4: right now, and don't frame it as that forever. Frame
20:10
Speaker 4: it as right now, Like I'm just not interested in
20:13
Speaker 4: that right now. I'm not interested in getting sloppy drunk.
20:15
Speaker 4: And you know, who knows, maybe he'll be like, oh,
20:18
Speaker 4: you know, once it's out there, and you know, without
20:21
Speaker 4: judgment on him, you do your thing, let him do
20:24
Speaker 4: his thing, and as long as it's not interrupting your lifestyle,
20:26
Speaker 4: then there's really nothing for you to do except tolerate
20:29
Speaker 4: it and go do something else on a Saturday night,
20:31
Speaker 4: whatever you want to do.
20:32
Speaker 6: Yeah, I agree. I think not framing it as forever
20:36
Speaker 6: is really good advice. It could be tough in the
20:38
Speaker 6: gay world. I know, it's obviously alcoholism exists everywhere, but
20:42
Speaker 6: there's a lot of like social anxiety when gay men
20:45
Speaker 6: get together. You know, it's very sexually charged, even if
20:48
Speaker 6: you're in a long term couple, you know, because that
20:50
Speaker 6: can be its own pressure. And you see a lot
20:54
Speaker 6: of jug and alcohol abuse in the gay world, you do.
20:58
Speaker 6: I have a lot of sober friends. They're sober because
21:01
Speaker 6: for a long time they were very much not sober.
21:03
Speaker 1: Is that how it works?
21:05
Speaker 5: Have you ever heard of that?
21:06
Speaker 6: Well, you know, gay guys party hard, sometimes not all.
21:10
Speaker 6: I don't want to make generalizations, so and I would
21:13
Speaker 6: imagine that, Yeah, there can be pressure to sort of
21:16
Speaker 6: keep doing that, especially if you know your other half
21:19
Speaker 6: is still doing it. But I think as long as
21:21
Speaker 6: you communicate the fact that you have no problem with
21:24
Speaker 6: him having a good time and that you just are
21:27
Speaker 6: kind of, you know, shifting your behavior a little bit,
21:31
Speaker 6: it shouldn't be an issue.
21:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's a simple one.
21:34
Speaker 4: I think we've I think we uh, we're not going
21:37
Speaker 4: to talk as long as it took him to write
21:38
Speaker 4: that letter.
21:40
Speaker 3: Do you think he should still like go out, have
21:43
Speaker 3: a couple of mocktails and then be like, see you
21:44
Speaker 3: guys have fun getting shit faced, like I'm gonna.
21:46
Speaker 1: Go see a movie.
21:47
Speaker 3: Or is it sort of like say how many your jammies?
21:50
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, totally, Like that's nice.
21:52
Speaker 4: That's a great suggestion, but go before everybody gets sloppy.
21:56
Speaker 4: The sloppy part, Like, I couldn't agree with you more.
21:58
Speaker 4: Nobody wants to be around a slop drunk, So I
22:01
Speaker 4: mean that might be a motivation for his partner to
22:03
Speaker 4: like not get so sloppy, you know, knowing how he
22:05
Speaker 4: feels or knowing that he's not going to be part
22:07
Speaker 4: of the equation.
22:07
Speaker 1: It becomes a little bit lonely. Yeah.
22:10
Speaker 3: Well, our first caller today is Amber. Amber says, dear Chelsea,
22:15
Speaker 3: I'm writing to you as a long standing good girl
22:18
Speaker 3: with codependent tendencies who's working hard to overcome my people
22:21
Speaker 3: pleasing ways, all while raising a little badass eight year
22:25
Speaker 3: old girl who has a strong ability to set boundaries.
22:28
Speaker 3: Say it like it is with no filter, steps toe
22:30
Speaker 3: to toe with anyone who challenges her, and is leading
22:33
Speaker 3: the rest of the second grade girls into her sassy ways.
22:37
Speaker 3: Problem is, I'm now discovering that she's not always using
22:40
Speaker 3: her power for good. She's the leader of the mean
22:42
Speaker 3: girls in second grade. Wow, I'm a long I know.
22:46
Speaker 3: I'm a long standing fan and admirer of women like
22:49
Speaker 3: my daughter, women like you who are comfortable in their
22:52
Speaker 3: skin and don't seem to give a shit what others think,
22:55
Speaker 3: free to set boundaries and live a life out loud.
22:57
Speaker 3: I love it, I admire it, and I'm working hard
23:00
Speaker 3: to be more like women like you and my daughter.
23:02
Speaker 3: Question is how do I raise my little badass to
23:05
Speaker 3: be powerful and kind? I don't want her to be
23:08
Speaker 3: the asshole of everyone's childhood, but seriously don't want to
23:11
Speaker 3: stunt her strength and power. What would you have wanted?
23:14
Speaker 3: Thanks for the laughs and inspiration, Amber, And she's joining us.
23:18
Speaker 7: Here, Hi Amber, Hi Chelsea, how are you?
23:21
Speaker 2: Hi?
23:21
Speaker 1: Billy Eichner's here as a special guest.
23:24
Speaker 7: Billy's so nice to meet you.
23:27
Speaker 1: That's so annoying.
23:28
Speaker 4: I mean, I know what you mean, but I don't
23:30
Speaker 4: think listen, I don't think of having a conversation about
23:32
Speaker 4: kindness is going to put out her flame for life.
23:37
Speaker 4: Kindness is part of being powerful, and I wish I
23:40
Speaker 4: had learned that lesson at a very early age.
23:43
Speaker 1: Was she bullied?
23:44
Speaker 7: You know, that's interesting. You should ask that she did
23:47
Speaker 7: deal with a bully a couple of years ago. And
23:49
Speaker 7: I think that what's happening is she's she's learned she
23:53
Speaker 7: is powerful, and so she's willing to step toe to toe.
23:56
Speaker 7: So she's also perceiving aggression when sometimes there isn't a
23:59
Speaker 7: gre I also think it goes a little bit deeper
24:02
Speaker 7: in one of the reasons. She's got some things going
24:04
Speaker 7: on in her world too that are upsetting her. And
24:07
Speaker 7: I think that she's trying to control things that she
24:11
Speaker 7: thinks she can control, and she's doing it because she's
24:14
Speaker 7: leading the all the girls in school to be mean girls.
24:17
Speaker 7: But her brother, she's really close to him. He's ten
24:20
Speaker 7: years older than her. He is leaving on a morm
24:24
Speaker 7: admission and he'll be gone for two years, and she's
24:28
Speaker 7: preparing for abandonment. And so she's got all these uncontrollables
24:32
Speaker 7: that are happening in her world right now. And so
24:34
Speaker 7: now I feel like she's punching back at the world
24:37
Speaker 7: when she's at school and controlling all the other girls
24:41
Speaker 7: and getting into you know, mean girl.
24:43
Speaker 4: Scenarios, right, and so have you had an open conversation
24:46
Speaker 4: with her about all of this. That's a good analysis
24:49
Speaker 4: of the situation, lots of conversations.
24:51
Speaker 7: But what I'm also starting to see is kind of
24:55
Speaker 7: she's starting to lose a little bit of a spark
24:57
Speaker 7: in her eyes. She's like, I'm tired of talking about
24:59
Speaker 7: being nice.
25:00
Speaker 2: Mom.
25:00
Speaker 7: I get it, but I mean we're in the principal's.
25:02
Speaker 1: Eye and it's not about being nice.
25:04
Speaker 4: I think maybe you should change the word to kind,
25:06
Speaker 4: because nice doesn't mean anything anyway.
25:08
Speaker 1: Who gives a shit if somebody's nice. I hate when
25:09
Speaker 1: people say, oh, she was so nice, Who cares? That's
25:12
Speaker 1: that memorable?
25:13
Speaker 5: It also feels deeply uncool, you know.
25:19
Speaker 1: Yes, it feels deeply uncool.
25:20
Speaker 4: But like, I think, what would be a good conversation
25:24
Speaker 4: to have, and tell me if I'm repeating something you've
25:26
Speaker 4: already said, is using all that power she has and
25:29
Speaker 4: that personality for good rather than bad, you know, using
25:34
Speaker 4: that to look at the power she has.
25:36
Speaker 1: She's a leader, She's.
25:37
Speaker 4: Got all these girls behind her, and she's setting the
25:40
Speaker 4: tone for how everybody's going to be treated. Wouldn't she
25:43
Speaker 4: want to be the good witch instead of the bad witch?
25:46
Speaker 7: She did tell me just yesterday, she said, I feel
25:49
Speaker 7: like I have an anger. I feel like I'm mad
25:52
Speaker 7: inside and I need to get it out. And I
25:56
Speaker 7: know she's got a friend that's in therapy, so she's
25:57
Speaker 7: actually been talking about that, But I don't know point
26:00
Speaker 7: we figure that out.
26:01
Speaker 4: No, I think you listen, you have a responsibility to
26:03
Speaker 4: the other little kids at that school to get her help,
26:06
Speaker 4: because that's not fair. Bullies ruin people's lives. There are
26:10
Speaker 4: things that happen as a child that are cemented in
26:12
Speaker 4: your brain that are traumatizing when you are attacked by
26:15
Speaker 4: another kid at school, whether it's verbally, emotionally, physically, whatever.
26:19
Speaker 4: But you you have a responsibility to everybody else to
26:21
Speaker 4: make sure you get her on the straight and narrow.
26:23
Speaker 4: And yes, you absolutely must bring her to therapy right
26:26
Speaker 4: away because you don't want her growing up and being
26:29
Speaker 4: like that.
26:30
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? How old is she again? Eleven?
26:33
Speaker 5: Eight? Wow? Is she on social media yet?
26:38
Speaker 2: No?
26:38
Speaker 1: Good? Good keep her off of that.
26:40
Speaker 5: That'll only make it worse, So go to therapy.
26:43
Speaker 4: Now, yeah, you have to have I think you've got
26:47
Speaker 4: to switch your your approach as well, because obviously what
26:50
Speaker 4: you're saying is falling on deaf ears, which is a
26:52
Speaker 4: natural thing to happen between a parent and a child.
26:55
Speaker 4: But I think you should also switch your terminology and
26:58
Speaker 4: talk about kindness and spreading you and spreading love and
27:01
Speaker 4: not in a way that she's gonna be like it's
27:03
Speaker 4: so stupid. It's like, use examples of people that are
27:06
Speaker 4: doing that, you know, on a grand scale. Think of
27:09
Speaker 4: people that she looks up to that would never tolerate
27:12
Speaker 4: her that behavior. You know, who does she admire Taylor Swift?
27:15
Speaker 4: Is she into Miley Cyrus?
27:17
Speaker 1: What's she into?
27:18
Speaker 7: I don't think she's exposed to them as much. I
27:20
Speaker 7: have a good friend Diana, who she really admires that
27:22
Speaker 7: I could really lean into. And Diana is all love
27:25
Speaker 7: and all kindness and all joy. So that's a really
27:28
Speaker 7: good point of thinking of mentors that she has in
27:30
Speaker 7: her life that she does admire that are kind.
27:32
Speaker 1: Yeah.
27:33
Speaker 4: When I was really irresponsible at a point in my life,
27:36
Speaker 4: I was just I didn't give a shit about my family.
27:39
Speaker 1: I was rebelling rebelling, rebelling my.
27:41
Speaker 4: Sister, my oldest sister, who's the person in my family
27:44
Speaker 4: I respect the most. She sat me down and said
27:46
Speaker 4: to me, like, you're going down the wrong road. This
27:49
Speaker 4: is your opportunity right now, and this is your last chance.
27:52
Speaker 4: You either stay with the family or we're not going
27:54
Speaker 4: to put up with us anymore. I was like seventeen,
27:57
Speaker 4: eighteen years old, but I was bad, and that changed
28:00
Speaker 4: my life because I respected her the most.
28:02
Speaker 1: She had never said anything.
28:03
Speaker 4: She just showed me unconditional love, unconditional love, and that
28:06
Speaker 4: didn't deter me. That didn't change my course because she
28:09
Speaker 4: was just showing me so much love, and until she
28:11
Speaker 4: threatened to turn that love off, even though that would
28:14
Speaker 4: be impossible, I believed it and I got scared. So
28:18
Speaker 4: I think you have to find the person that you're
28:20
Speaker 4: talking about. You have to get her into therapy. That's
28:22
Speaker 4: not a question, And you have to have different conversations
28:26
Speaker 4: around the subject matter because your approach isn't working and
28:29
Speaker 4: she's not listening to you in that way. It has
28:31
Speaker 4: to be spoken to her. I would enlist your friend
28:34
Speaker 4: try and do it that way. But also, you know,
28:37
Speaker 4: read some books about children and their anger and how
28:40
Speaker 4: to exhaust it, you know, so she's not taking it
28:42
Speaker 4: out on other people. And there are a lot of
28:44
Speaker 4: movies about.
28:45
Speaker 1: Bullying, you know.
28:46
Speaker 4: I mean, Mean Girls is a great one. But she
28:48
Speaker 4: probably might see that at this point and think, I
28:50
Speaker 4: like that. I want to be one of those girls,
28:52
Speaker 4: and you want her to actually see the light.
28:55
Speaker 1: Were you bullied?
28:56
Speaker 6: Not significantly, which is surprising considering I was pretty obviously gay,
29:02
Speaker 6: But I think you know, I grew up in New
29:03
Speaker 6: York City, and I think that helped the cause. Yeah,
29:07
Speaker 6: you know, I was bullied a little bit, but not
29:09
Speaker 6: not extensively.
29:10
Speaker 5: I was very lucky in that way.
29:13
Speaker 1: So I think, listen, anyone who's a bully was bullied.
29:16
Speaker 1: That's what happens.
29:17
Speaker 4: I was bullied. I became a bully. But you have
29:20
Speaker 4: to dismantle that, and you have somebody, and have somebody
29:22
Speaker 4: who's a professional deal with it, because you know you're
29:25
Speaker 4: coming up empty handed. And she's eight years old, and
29:27
Speaker 4: this is really the time between eight and eleven that
29:30
Speaker 4: you want to get girls in their heads to be kind.
29:32
Speaker 3: Agreed, Yeah, And just as a couple of ways to
29:35
Speaker 3: help sort of exhaust that anger and let her have
29:39
Speaker 3: an outlet for that anger. This might be a one
29:42
Speaker 3: or two time thing, but I know when my niece
29:44
Speaker 3: and nephew had a loss in their family, my nephew
29:47
Speaker 3: had so much pent up anger and he said to
29:49
Speaker 3: my sister one day, He's like, I just feel like
29:51
Speaker 3: I want to break something. And so she went out
29:55
Speaker 3: to the thrift store and bought a whole bunch of plates,
29:58
Speaker 3: and we all put on our safety glasses and we
30:00
Speaker 3: grab these plates and we like threw them down on
30:02
Speaker 3: the ground and just broke plates. And it was so
30:06
Speaker 3: such a relief to sort of express that anger. But
30:09
Speaker 3: maybe there are other things that are more long term.
30:11
Speaker 3: Like I mean, eight is probably young for a girl
30:14
Speaker 3: to start boxing, but like some other physical activity, they'll
30:17
Speaker 3: allow her to sort of get some of that aggression
30:19
Speaker 3: out of her body rather than sort of trapping it
30:23
Speaker 3: inside where it comes out in these nasty ways. In addition,
30:25
Speaker 3: of course, to a therapist.
30:27
Speaker 4: And I say, it's an emergent situation because eight years old,
30:31
Speaker 4: you shouldn't even know how to be that mean yet,
30:33
Speaker 4: you know what I mean?
30:34
Speaker 5: An eight year old throwing plates.
30:37
Speaker 1: While she has her safety goggles.
30:39
Speaker 5: Don't forget about that part.
30:41
Speaker 4: I don't know where did she get the safety goggles
30:42
Speaker 4: at the thrift store too, because who has safety.
30:44
Speaker 1: Goggles lying around in the carpenter?
30:47
Speaker 4: But yes, please get enlist other people to help you,
30:50
Speaker 4: you know, and get on it right away. And I
30:53
Speaker 4: know you are, and I know you're trying to figure
30:55
Speaker 4: it out because it's embarrassing to have a kid that's
30:57
Speaker 4: acting like that.
30:58
Speaker 1: I'm sure you're dealing with all these other parents.
31:00
Speaker 7: And and her father and I are both kind of
31:04
Speaker 7: at a loss, like, oh my gosh, what's happening. We
31:06
Speaker 7: are having all these conversations, and candidly, we just found
31:09
Speaker 7: out about the level of what's happening. We thought it
31:13
Speaker 7: was just drama, just girl drama, and we found out
31:15
Speaker 7: on Saturday that I'm actually the ring leader of mean girls.
31:20
Speaker 7: And so I appreciate your rapid response. Forty. I'm getting
31:24
Speaker 7: great advice from.
31:25
Speaker 4: You, and also talk to the teachers at the school
31:27
Speaker 4: and the counselors at the school and how and come
31:29
Speaker 4: up with a plan that you guys are all coordinated on,
31:32
Speaker 4: you know what I mean, Because there has to be
31:34
Speaker 4: repercussions for her bad behavior, and there has to be
31:36
Speaker 4: a form of punishment, and that you're working with the
31:39
Speaker 4: teachers and that there are eyes everywhere will have an
31:43
Speaker 4: impact on an eight year old, you know, as soon
31:45
Speaker 4: as she starts paying the price for her behavior and
31:48
Speaker 4: realizes popularity isn't you know, she's not gonna want to
31:50
Speaker 4: stay after school. She's not gonna want to get punished
31:53
Speaker 4: when she comes home. So have you exercised any of
31:55
Speaker 4: those options yet?
31:57
Speaker 7: I am following up and saying no, I want her
32:00
Speaker 7: one on one with the school counselor to discuss this specifically,
32:02
Speaker 7: they do friendship circles that I requested before.
32:05
Speaker 1: The end of the school year. Good because I don't really.
32:07
Speaker 7: Worried about one girl in particular that's been targeted.
32:10
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, get on it and spend your summer working
32:12
Speaker 4: on her, you know, and spend as much time as
32:14
Speaker 4: you can with her, because a lot of that probably
32:16
Speaker 4: comes from you know, I think girls can easily not easily,
32:21
Speaker 4: but girls and their moms. There's just a huge healing
32:25
Speaker 4: effect that being around your mom has. I mean even
32:28
Speaker 4: little boys, especially at that age. You know, Just spend
32:31
Speaker 4: as much one on one time with her as you can,
32:33
Speaker 4: and be as communicative as you can, and engage as
32:37
Speaker 4: much as you can with therapists and help and you know,
32:39
Speaker 4: hopefully over the summer you can make some major improvements.
32:43
Speaker 1: Yeah. Was that helpful to you at all?
32:46
Speaker 7: Yeah, it really is. I think really supporting that idea
32:49
Speaker 7: of like, we got to get into therapy sooner than later,
32:51
Speaker 7: because you know, I'm doing all the things, saying things,
32:54
Speaker 7: I'm highly communicative, but I need backup. I need that village.
32:59
Speaker 7: I need to start building a village around her because
33:01
Speaker 7: I her father and I can't do it on her own.
33:04
Speaker 7: Need we need backup.
33:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and that's okay.
33:06
Speaker 4: And also being communicative with the other parents that you're
33:09
Speaker 4: working on it, you know, so that they you can
33:11
Speaker 4: alay some of their fears, because it's so scary for
33:13
Speaker 4: other parents to have to deal with that. I was
33:15
Speaker 4: just in a doctor's appointment yesterday and he was talking
33:17
Speaker 4: about this poor girl. She's eleven and she got kicked
33:20
Speaker 4: out of her friend group and now she's in a
33:22
Speaker 4: new friend group and the old friend group is making
33:24
Speaker 4: the new friend group dumper too.
33:26
Speaker 5: Oh god, And I.
33:27
Speaker 4: Was just like, oh my god, it makes my vagina
33:29
Speaker 4: shut tight, Like the idea of children going through this
33:33
Speaker 4: is just heartbreaking, you know, on both.
33:35
Speaker 6: Ends, it is I'm also concerned about the Mormon mission,
33:40
Speaker 6: just for the records.
33:42
Speaker 5: All right, we'll get to that next.
33:45
Speaker 7: Okay, good, we'll talk about that later.
33:48
Speaker 1: Are you not Mormon?
33:50
Speaker 7: Now?
33:52
Speaker 5: Why is he going on at Mormon mission if you're
33:54
Speaker 5: not Mormon?
33:55
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I was trying to respect.
33:58
Speaker 5: I could feel Chelsea each to be polite.
34:01
Speaker 7: I'm healing. It's post post Mormon healing for me, my friends.
34:04
Speaker 1: So my sisters are recovering Mormon.
34:07
Speaker 5: Your kids have a lot going on.
34:09
Speaker 7: They called him to New Zealand, which is a really
34:11
Speaker 7: cool place. So I was like, I was hoping he'd
34:14
Speaker 7: back out, but not no.
34:15
Speaker 4: Leck so far, How did can I just how did
34:18
Speaker 4: he find Mormonism without you guys?
34:21
Speaker 7: Well, I grew up Mormon and left the church gosh
34:24
Speaker 7: till twelve years ago or something. But his father's still active.
34:27
Speaker 7: And so he through COVID, went up to Canada and
34:31
Speaker 7: is in Canada now, and went to high school there
34:33
Speaker 7: and it's a very predominantly Mormon community and that's where
34:35
Speaker 7: he found community and belonging was in the church and
34:39
Speaker 7: with his friends that are members, and so he's fully indoctrinated.
34:43
Speaker 1: And it is.
34:46
Speaker 7: Said it's another issue all right in.
34:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I guess we'll all talk to you next week.
34:51
Speaker 6: Send him to a therapist too, while you're yeah.
34:54
Speaker 7: And me, all three of us.
34:55
Speaker 1: We all need yeah you that's healthy.
34:57
Speaker 4: It sounds like you do there. All right, Well, it
35:03
Speaker 4: was nice to speak with you. Thanks for calling in.
35:05
Speaker 1: Thanks thanks Samber. What about an eight year old bully?
35:11
Speaker 1: What about that?
35:12
Speaker 4: How did would she even learn I don't be me
35:15
Speaker 4: because someone did it to her?
35:16
Speaker 5: That's all right?
35:17
Speaker 3: Yeah right, yeah, but I like your idea about movies
35:20
Speaker 3: and like fill her summer reading list with all Judy
35:23
Speaker 3: bloom books, bully books, all this stuff, because when you
35:26
Speaker 3: see how awful it is, you don't want to be that.
35:29
Speaker 3: Like my one girlfriend, her kid's eleven, she's like, being
35:32
Speaker 3: called a bully is the worst thing you can get
35:34
Speaker 3: called at this school.
35:35
Speaker 1: I told my friend the other day.
35:36
Speaker 4: She was harassing me about something and I was like,
35:38
Speaker 4: you're being a bully, and she goes.
35:39
Speaker 1: Don't ever say that. I was like, oh god, sorry,
35:42
Speaker 1: that hit a little too close to home. I guess.
35:49
Speaker 2: Well.
35:49
Speaker 3: Our next caller is Alan. Alan says, dear Chelsea, I'm
35:54
Speaker 3: a gay male in my thirties and I've found myself
35:56
Speaker 3: in a bit of a strange, disorienting space when it
35:58
Speaker 3: comes to relationships, including friends. I guess I had my
36:02
Speaker 3: share of fun times and entry level relationships in college
36:06
Speaker 3: and through most of my twenties when I found my
36:08
Speaker 3: first real relationship that brought me into my thirties after
36:11
Speaker 3: a brief break. I was blindsided with an unforeseen relationship
36:14
Speaker 3: break in the first year of COVID. It ended with
36:16
Speaker 3: him cheating on me probably sixty percent of the time
36:19
Speaker 3: while I was recovering from a physical accident. It was
36:21
Speaker 3: my first time being cheated on. I've always been self sufficient,
36:25
Speaker 3: and I get older, I don't seem to have much
36:28
Speaker 3: of a sexual drive for just hookups less I decided
36:31
Speaker 3: to take time for just me again. Now I'm in
36:34
Speaker 3: the spot where I've been putting my dating feelers out again,
36:36
Speaker 3: But most of the guys I find turn out to
36:38
Speaker 3: be boring or way too simple. I followed you for
36:41
Speaker 3: a long time, and I've always thought I'd also have
36:43
Speaker 3: a similar trail of being an independent, single boss. But
36:46
Speaker 3: I can't shake this craving. I'd hook up more, but
36:49
Speaker 3: men are so predictable and boring, lackluster sex and lame
36:53
Speaker 3: what do you think is my relationship block? Have you
36:55
Speaker 3: had times like this before in your life? Love you? Alan?
36:58
Speaker 3: A gay and a gay city?
37:00
Speaker 1: Hi Alan, Hi Alan?
37:03
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, Alan, we have Billy here today, Billy Eichner.
37:07
Speaker 2: For you, of course it would be Billy especial.
37:11
Speaker 4: Are those headphones on your ears or is that a
37:13
Speaker 4: mullet that's coming down behind your neck?
37:14
Speaker 5: Oh?
37:15
Speaker 2: No, this is mullet baby. Oh yeah, the summer cut.
37:21
Speaker 1: That's cute.
37:22
Speaker 4: Okay, So well, your attitude is what's in the way.
37:25
Speaker 4: But that's okay because you're not you're I mean, you
37:27
Speaker 4: sound just slightly depressed.
37:30
Speaker 1: Do you feel depressed?
37:32
Speaker 2: No, not in any way. Okay, I kind of feel
37:34
Speaker 2: like a ghost a ghost, yeah, like not really a hermit.
37:39
Speaker 2: But I'm just kind of there. I'm just going out
37:42
Speaker 2: doing my thing, put myself out there. But I'm just
37:46
Speaker 2: really not interested in a lot of other people. I'm
37:49
Speaker 2: kind of just like so consumed and like becoming more
37:52
Speaker 2: of a better person.
37:54
Speaker 1: Oh well, then that's the opposite of depressed.
37:56
Speaker 5: Yeah. I think that's good.
37:57
Speaker 1: Actually, it is good.
37:58
Speaker 4: I mean that's great. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that.
38:01
Speaker 4: I think there are periods of time. Listen, I have
38:04
Speaker 4: no desire to have sex with fucking anybody, And that's
38:06
Speaker 4: how I've felt for the last six months, probably just none.
38:10
Speaker 1: Like I have to make myself go and look for.
38:13
Speaker 4: Sex, yeah, and like set things up so that I
38:15
Speaker 4: can get sex because I don't want to forget. But
38:18
Speaker 4: I think that's a normal thing for people to go through,
38:21
Speaker 4: especially when you're doing some self reflection, and like in
38:23
Speaker 4: our work, I don't think that there's anything.
38:25
Speaker 5: Wrong with that.
38:27
Speaker 6: I think that society and culture, especially gay culture, sometimes
38:31
Speaker 6: makes you feel like you're supposed to always be on
38:34
Speaker 6: the hunt for like sex or a boyfriend or a
38:38
Speaker 6: relationship or something right, And we don't really talk about
38:43
Speaker 6: the periods of your life where you just sort of
38:45
Speaker 6: take for yourself. You know, that's not as sexy to
38:49
Speaker 6: talk about when you have those like introspective periods, especially
38:52
Speaker 6: in the gay world, where again especially on social media,
38:55
Speaker 6: everyone's like naked in they're here and you know, they're
38:58
Speaker 6: on vacation and they're with these guys, those guys, and
39:01
Speaker 6: I don't know, I think we need to value just
39:04
Speaker 6: as much the times that we're again being more introspective
39:08
Speaker 6: and self reflective.
39:09
Speaker 4: There's a season for sewing and there's a season for reaping.
39:13
Speaker 4: Like you're not always on the it's not always incoming.
39:16
Speaker 4: Sometimes it's outgoing, and sometimes it's just you and self reflection.
39:20
Speaker 4: Like that's very cyclical in all all of our lives.
39:23
Speaker 4: So you're not alone.
39:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I live in Austin, Texas, which is one
39:27
Speaker 2: of the gayest things. Yeah, so I'm surrounded by very
39:30
Speaker 2: much that where everything is so like sexually driven, and like,
39:34
Speaker 2: I want an open relationship. I wants many partners. I
39:36
Speaker 2: just need the sex, you know, and I'm just not
39:39
Speaker 2: for that at this age.
39:41
Speaker 4: And you really desire what your long term plan is
39:43
Speaker 4: to be in a committed relationship.
39:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, ultimately, uh huh. And really from my early twenties
39:50
Speaker 2: until now, I've been in a relationship. So I got
39:53
Speaker 2: my kind of hookup phase out of the way, established
39:56
Speaker 2: a really strong relationship that was really great, and I
40:00
Speaker 2: thought it was going to go somewhere, but we were
40:02
Speaker 2: on different pages and then was taking a break and
40:05
Speaker 2: immediately got sideswiped by a relationship during COVID, and so
40:09
Speaker 2: we were kind of stuck together necessarily. So since we
40:14
Speaker 2: broke up, I've been taking a lot more time for
40:16
Speaker 2: myself and I've really built myself up in a lot
40:19
Speaker 2: of different aspects in my life, and now I'm putting
40:22
Speaker 2: the feelers back out there, and it's just I don't know,
40:25
Speaker 2: I don't have any desire or nothing seems appetizing, for
40:30
Speaker 2: lack of.
40:30
Speaker 6: Better words, Well, I think oftentimes nothing is appetizing. Yeah,
40:34
Speaker 6: it can be a grind. It can feel like a chure,
40:37
Speaker 6: like another thing on your to do list, like go
40:40
Speaker 6: on dates, and that takes the fun out of it
40:42
Speaker 6: and the spontaneity out of it.
40:44
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's amost like another job exactly.
40:46
Speaker 6: It is another job, and then a relationship itself is
40:49
Speaker 6: another job, you know, and you have to be prepared
40:52
Speaker 6: for that and wanting that. I think it's perfectly fine
40:54
Speaker 6: and actually a good thing to be in a phase
40:57
Speaker 6: where you're not aggressively wanting that.
41:00
Speaker 4: Actually, yeah, I think you should embrace that, embrace like
41:04
Speaker 4: the moment that you're in and actually treasure it because
41:07
Speaker 4: you may not be single for very long, and you're
41:11
Speaker 4: certainly not going to be single forever. There are going
41:13
Speaker 4: to be people that come in and out of your life,
41:15
Speaker 4: so you want to really treasure this time alone with yourself,
41:18
Speaker 4: Like I have the best time with myself and I
41:20
Speaker 4: don't feel guilty about that at all.
41:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, me neither. But when I get on you know,
41:25
Speaker 2: dates or dating aps and they're like, what do you
41:29
Speaker 2: I've been asked like do you have any friends? And
41:31
Speaker 2: I'm like, of course I do. I just like myself,
41:34
Speaker 2: is there a problem with that?
41:36
Speaker 1: And why do people ask you if you have any friends?
41:38
Speaker 2: Because like what do you do? Well? I do a
41:40
Speaker 2: lot of things that involve myself. You know, I don't
41:43
Speaker 2: mind going out to eat by myself. I don't mind
41:46
Speaker 2: going to the library or a bar to read a
41:48
Speaker 2: book by myself.
41:49
Speaker 1: I like me, Yeah, well that's those are all healthy things.
41:52
Speaker 5: Those are good things.
41:53
Speaker 1: I don't understand what the problem is.
41:55
Speaker 4: I mean, you're just not attracted to people right now,
41:57
Speaker 4: and that's okay, that's okay. You have to give yourself
41:59
Speaker 4: permission to be in that phase without judging yourself for
42:02
Speaker 4: not being interested in sex, because that's what you're doing.
42:05
Speaker 4: You're kind of playing a game with yourself and a
42:07
Speaker 4: trick on yourself because you're like looking at society and
42:10
Speaker 4: what everyone's expecting of you and thinking you have to
42:11
Speaker 4: deliver to them, and really you only have to deliver
42:14
Speaker 4: to yourself, So enjoy this time, don't judge yourself, be like,
42:18
Speaker 4: this is what I'm going to do. Do you know
42:19
Speaker 4: how fucking healthy it is to go be able and
42:21
Speaker 4: read a book by yourself?
42:22
Speaker 1: And how people how few people can do that in
42:26
Speaker 1: this world?
42:27
Speaker 5: Yeah?
42:28
Speaker 1: Like that's awesome.
42:29
Speaker 4: And you're just think of this time as preparing for
42:31
Speaker 4: the person that you're going to end up with, Like
42:33
Speaker 4: you're doing the inner work and the self work and
42:35
Speaker 4: spending time alone to prepare for your long term relationship.
42:39
Speaker 2: I think being an extrovert is the counterpart of that.
42:43
Speaker 2: I don't need a relationship to make me feel fulfilled,
42:46
Speaker 2: but I recharge my battery with relationships and being around people.
42:52
Speaker 2: So I think that's what's getting me stuck where I'm like,
42:55
Speaker 2: I'm good with this, but I also want to recharge
42:58
Speaker 2: my batteries in a different way.
43:00
Speaker 6: Do you have like a circle of friends that you hang.
43:03
Speaker 2: With, Well, most of my people will have moved out
43:07
Speaker 2: of town. Oh so I really don't have anybody left.
43:12
Speaker 6: That might be the bigger issue. Because I'm a very
43:16
Speaker 6: social person. I rarely feel a need to go on
43:19
Speaker 6: a ton of dates or be in a relationship, but
43:22
Speaker 6: I couldn't exist without my friends around me. I really
43:26
Speaker 6: rely on them, you know, so that might be the
43:29
Speaker 6: bigger issue, you know, like where are you fulfilling that
43:33
Speaker 6: need to be social? Not to date someone or even
43:35
Speaker 6: go on a date or have sex, but to just
43:37
Speaker 6: interact with friends is really important.
43:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, most of my friendships right now are on the phone, because.
43:44
Speaker 1: They're all that's good. You should keep those going.
43:46
Speaker 4: Make sure you're having phone calls and facetimes or whatever
43:49
Speaker 4: you're into on a consistent basis. But you can go
43:51
Speaker 4: make friends in Austin. That's not going to be hard
43:54
Speaker 4: and it's important. I think Billy's exactly right, Like you're
43:57
Speaker 4: looking to fill a void and you're not really sure
43:59
Speaker 4: what that void is. And I think, yeah, you should
44:02
Speaker 4: work a little bit on making friendships rather than dating.
44:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good point.
44:08
Speaker 1: What do you do like to do? Do you do
44:09
Speaker 1: stuff outdoors? Hike?
44:11
Speaker 4: Do you are you into exercise? Are you into like chess?
44:14
Speaker 4: What's your story?
44:15
Speaker 2: Yes, So that's the other thing. I'm a very straight
44:18
Speaker 2: acting male. I come across a very masculine in my realm.
44:24
Speaker 2: I like the BMX, I like the outdoors, I like
44:26
Speaker 2: the camp, swim and the guys I've gone on dates
44:29
Speaker 2: with are like, I've never been camping before. I've never gone.
44:33
Speaker 2: I don't like swimming or I don't like hiking. Like
44:36
Speaker 2: what do you do? Just sit inside, go to the bar,
44:39
Speaker 2: Like that's basic to me.
44:41
Speaker 5: There are gay guys out there that like camping.
44:44
Speaker 6: I know many gay people who swim, who have the
44:46
Speaker 6: ability to swim.
44:48
Speaker 1: A ton of day swimmers.
44:51
Speaker 6: Yes, any swim team is full of closeted gay men.
44:55
Speaker 5: How old are you thirty five?
44:57
Speaker 6: Yeah, it can be hard to meet friends. That can
45:01
Speaker 6: actually be harder, I mean with for boyfriends and dating.
45:03
Speaker 6: While there's an ad, there's like a million apps, right,
45:06
Speaker 6: but just to meet friends, which I see a lot
45:09
Speaker 6: of people suffering from at all different stages of their lives,
45:13
Speaker 6: straight and gay and everyone. You know, it can be
45:15
Speaker 6: hard to meet friends. I know guys who when they
45:18
Speaker 6: move to a new city, gay guys, they'll join a team.
45:21
Speaker 5: You know, they'll be like a gay dodgeball team or
45:24
Speaker 5: a gay softball team or whatever it is. Gay campers,
45:27
Speaker 5: gay campers.
45:28
Speaker 6: I'm sure all of those things exist actually, and so
45:32
Speaker 6: I don't know, maybe maybe that's a.
45:33
Speaker 4: I think that you should join something you know, go online,
45:36
Speaker 4: do a little research either whether it's camping, swimming, hiking,
45:39
Speaker 4: whatever your outdoor stuff is that you've mentioned, and that's
45:43
Speaker 4: out of your comfort zone. So that's like a good step,
45:46
Speaker 4: like a proactive step towards addressing the issue, and that
45:49
Speaker 4: kind of I think you're feeling a little bit lonely,
45:52
Speaker 4: and do that, make active steps to just change your
45:55
Speaker 4: life in little small ways, and before you know it,
45:57
Speaker 4: you will develop friendships and you will have ale there
46:00
Speaker 4: and you'll probably worry a lot less about this relationship
46:03
Speaker 4: issue once you have some more community.
46:06
Speaker 2: Yeah. Now that they hear that, I think maybe I'm
46:08
Speaker 2: trying to fill two things instead of focus on one.
46:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, So can you do that?
46:13
Speaker 4: Can you go and just just go online after this
46:16
Speaker 4: call and just start researching hiking groups, camping groups, there's one,
46:20
Speaker 4: there's something for fucking everybody online, definitely.
46:23
Speaker 2: Yeah.
46:24
Speaker 6: Or just post on Instagram I have no friends or
46:27
Speaker 6: a or a book club.
46:28
Speaker 5: Yeah, that works.
46:30
Speaker 1: Looking for friends.
46:31
Speaker 4: Thank Chelsea Handler and Billy Eichner told me I need.
46:34
Speaker 1: To get some friends.
46:37
Speaker 2: I can do that.
46:39
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, but try not to judge yourself within the process.
46:42
Speaker 1: Just have a good time. You're going to meet some friends.
46:44
Speaker 4: You're going to meet a guy, and just you got
46:47
Speaker 4: to do a little bit of different stuff to get different.
46:49
Speaker 5: Results for sure.
46:51
Speaker 2: Yeah.
46:51
Speaker 1: Okay, well thanks for calling. I love your fucking mullet.
46:56
Speaker 1: Rock that out hard.
46:57
Speaker 5: It looks good.
46:59
Speaker 2: Thank you.
47:00
Speaker 1: Okay, bye bye.
47:03
Speaker 4: Okay, we're going to take a quick break and we're
47:04
Speaker 4: going to come back to wrap it up with Billy Eibner.
47:11
Speaker 1: And we're back.
47:12
Speaker 4: Well, that was all over the place, yeah, and then
47:16
Speaker 4: it Yeah.
47:18
Speaker 6: There have been so many articles lately about how loneliness
47:23
Speaker 6: is one of the biggest epidemics that we face, and
47:27
Speaker 6: and I think for especially younger people. It's everyone, actually,
47:32
Speaker 6: but at least people in our generation and older. We
47:35
Speaker 6: had to communicate with each other in person. We didn't
47:38
Speaker 6: have our phones, and so phones have replaced actual human
47:42
Speaker 6: interaction and it's kind of tricked people into thinking they
47:45
Speaker 6: don't need it or they're getting it, but they're not, like,
47:49
Speaker 6: that's not real human connection. And especially post COVID, I
47:53
Speaker 6: think people got stuck in their homes, you know, there
47:56
Speaker 6: is a little less socializing going on in certain places.
47:58
Speaker 6: Maybe it's it's really important right to get out there
48:02
Speaker 6: and meet people, not to date, just for friendship.
48:06
Speaker 4: Yeah, and also just to change it up. It's always
48:07
Speaker 4: good to challenge yourself. It's always good something to do.
48:10
Speaker 4: Like I would never want to join a book club
48:12
Speaker 4: or a hiking club, but if I were in that situation,
48:15
Speaker 4: I would make myself do that, you know, because it's
48:17
Speaker 4: about doing that, like you have to stretch a little bit, Billy.
48:21
Speaker 1: Thanks for coming in, Thanks.
48:22
Speaker 4: For having me in New York City on this beautiful
48:24
Speaker 4: summer day.
48:25
Speaker 1: Have a great afternoon, everybody.
48:29
Speaker 4: Okay, guys, we have added more shows to my Little
48:32
Speaker 4: Big Bitch tour because I'm coming all over. We added
48:35
Speaker 4: a second show at the Pantagius in Los Angeles, so
48:38
Speaker 4: that's October twelfth and Friday the thirteenth. We added a
48:41
Speaker 4: second show in Boston at the Waying Center September twenty
48:45
Speaker 4: ninth and thirtieth is two shows in New York. I
48:47
Speaker 4: also have a show in East Hampton, New York August
48:50
Speaker 4: twenty six. We added a second show in Portland, so
48:53
Speaker 4: Thursday November tewod Friday November third, and Portland November fourth
48:57
Speaker 4: and fifth. In San Francisco, two shows there. We added
49:00
Speaker 4: a second show with Seattle November tenth and eleventh. Two
49:03
Speaker 4: shows Boston are November sixteenth and seventeenth at the Boch
49:08
Speaker 4: Center at Wang Theater. And I'm also coming to Toronto
49:14
Speaker 4: and Montreal and Ottawa and so many other cities Columbus, Cincinnati, Detroit, Louisville.
49:22
Speaker 1: So i will see everybody at all of these shows.
49:25
Speaker 1: Thank you.
49:26
Speaker 4: Get your tickets at Chelseahandler dot com.
49:30
Speaker 3: If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email
49:32
Speaker 3: at Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com and be
49:35
Speaker 3: sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited
49:38
Speaker 3: and engineered by Brad Dickert executive producer Catherine Law and
49:42
Speaker 3: be sure to check out our merch at Chelseahandler dot
49:45
Speaker 3: com