Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Missing Iowa co-ed Mollie Tibbetts possible sighting 250 miles away?

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Missing Iowa co-ed Mollie Tibbetts possible sighting 250 miles away? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:06
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM. Triumph and
0:12
Speaker 1: Iowa college student just twenty years old, goes missing, seemingly
0:17
Speaker 1: disappearing into thin air, reports claiming she was spotted jogging
0:23
Speaker 1: just before she was missing. Now we learned she was
0:26
Speaker 1: up late on her computer doing homework. Where is Molly Tibbits?
0:32
Speaker 1: In the last hours, we learned of a possible sighting
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Speaker 1: of Molly nearly two and fifty miles away from where
0:40
Speaker 1: she goes missing in her boyfriend's apartment. He's out of
0:43
Speaker 1: town on a construction job two fifty miles away near
0:48
Speaker 1: a truck stop, reportedly looking extremely disoriented. Where is Molly?
0:54
Speaker 1: I Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for
0:57
Speaker 1: being with us. Listen to what Molly father Rob has
1:01
Speaker 1: to say. Robin, was the last time you talked to Molly?
1:06
Speaker 1: I talked to Molly Sunday for about three hours. We
1:08
Speaker 1: talked regularly on the phone. I live in California, UM.
1:12
Speaker 1: She was out earlier this year from my wedding, and
1:15
Speaker 1: so we just talked about She's going to the Dominican
1:20
Speaker 1: Republic for a wedding her boyfriend's brother. She's getting back
1:26
Speaker 1: to school books, she's reading just the usual stuff. She
1:31
Speaker 1: was wearing a fitbit when she was running. Authorities have
1:33
Speaker 1: at least told us that much. What can you tell
1:36
Speaker 1: us tonight about how that's helping them track down her
1:40
Speaker 1: whereabouts and where she might have been last I don't know.
1:45
Speaker 1: The authorities, as you said, our circumspect with all of
1:49
Speaker 1: the information, and so they're not sharing that sort of
1:52
Speaker 1: information with us as well, a lot of questions about
1:56
Speaker 1: what state the house. She was staying in her boyfriend's
1:58
Speaker 1: house while he was off on this um construction job,
2:01
Speaker 1: and she was their dog sitting as much as we've
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Speaker 1: been told. Something that has not been mentioned much were
2:07
Speaker 1: the were the dogs there? Had the dogs been found?
2:10
Speaker 1: Were they at home when the authorities arrived at the house. Yeah,
2:15
Speaker 1: the dogs are at the house. I was just there
2:17
Speaker 1: yesterday and there in perfect condition. Interesting and so now
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Speaker 1: they're waiting for new evidence that they may have new
2:24
Speaker 1: evidence in their possession. But are they sharing that with you, Rob, No,
2:28
Speaker 1: they're not, and for obvious reasons. The last thing the
2:32
Speaker 1: authorities want to do is share information that would give
2:36
Speaker 1: an advantage to anybody who would need to use that.
2:39
Speaker 1: Right now, the last we heard before the latest developments
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Speaker 1: was that the last she was seen or heard of
2:47
Speaker 1: was on that run. And now the new developments today
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Speaker 1: is that the last she would have been seen was
2:54
Speaker 1: this photo she took Snapchat to her boyfriend and it
2:57
Speaker 1: looked like she was indoors. Would it be Molly to
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Speaker 1: be working on her computer and doing homework late into
3:03
Speaker 1: the evening like they believed she was. Now, it wouldn't
3:07
Speaker 1: be unusual. When she was staying with us in California, UM,
3:11
Speaker 1: she was on the computer quite a bit. She was
3:14
Speaker 1: taking online courses, so that wouldn't be unusual. But none
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Speaker 1: of the timeline has been confirmed by the authorities, at
3:21
Speaker 1: least not to our knowledge, UM, and so a lot
3:24
Speaker 1: of this is now conjecture and speculation that we just
3:28
Speaker 1: can't confirm. You're taking a Listen to Molly's father, Rob Tibbots,
3:33
Speaker 1: speaking to Fox News Sandra Smith straight out to Crime
3:38
Speaker 1: Online dot Com investigative reporter Lee Eagan, Lee, I need
3:43
Speaker 1: to know what you know about the possible siding of
3:47
Speaker 1: Iowa College student Molly Tibbots. What do we know? Sergeant
3:51
Speaker 1: Joke Intila with the Kearney, Missouri Police Department said that
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Speaker 1: he received numerous calls numerous calls and messages after a
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Speaker 1: Facebook poster said that they saw someone that greatly reasonable
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Speaker 1: Molly in that the person looked drug disoriented and was
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Speaker 1: with a truck driver. This was at a local truck
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Speaker 1: stop in Kearney off of Missouri Highway ninety two. That's right,
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Speaker 1: Lee Uh Kearnie, Missouri police get this report that a
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Speaker 1: woman matching tippots description spotted at a truck stop near
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Speaker 1: Interstate I thirty five and Missouri Highway. They claimed she
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Speaker 1: looked extremely disoriented, h that she resembles Tippitts and was
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Speaker 1: with a white male. The tipsters also saying the woman
4:45
Speaker 1: did not appear to be quote in any distress. Now
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Speaker 1: I find this very interesting. Um, let me go out
4:54
Speaker 1: to Karen Smith forensics expert authorities there and Karni conduct
5:00
Speaker 1: as they say, a thorough search of the areas, but
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Speaker 1: with witnesses and review video footage before they send the
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Speaker 1: report to Iowa investigators. Wouldn't that take a long time? Yes,
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Speaker 1: it would, especially going over the video. If they have uh,
5:17
Speaker 1: you know, screenshots or video of this woman who resembled Molly,
5:22
Speaker 1: they would want to go over that. My question is
5:24
Speaker 1: is there any close circuit TV of the parking lot.
5:27
Speaker 1: Did they get a description of this alleged truck that
5:30
Speaker 1: she may have come from the man that she was
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Speaker 1: allegedly with. Um, did anybody write down a license plate?
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Speaker 1: Did anybody get a description of of that vehicle? Can
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Speaker 1: they track it down on the interstate and find out
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Speaker 1: if if the woman, if it's Molly, if she's inside
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Speaker 1: of that vehicle. But yes, that would take hours and hours,
5:48
Speaker 1: and unfortunately the clock keeps ticking in this case. I mean,
5:52
Speaker 1: there are so many ways there to get For instance,
5:57
Speaker 1: tag grabbers along the interstate. If this person was pulled
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Speaker 1: over at a truck stop. To Viscent Hill, former cop
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Speaker 1: turned private investigator, a tag grabber grabs license plate tags
6:12
Speaker 1: alongsides of highways and interstates, really simple. If this guy
6:17
Speaker 1: was pulling out of a truck stop. Truck stops are
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Speaker 1: highly monitored. To my understanding, Vincent Hill, yeah they are, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: But you know, I'm not so sure this could have
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Speaker 1: been Molly here. And here's why I see that based
6:29
Speaker 1: on my experience when I was in patrol. I know
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Speaker 1: what truck stops are known for. I know what women
6:35
Speaker 1: that appear to be intoxicator under the influence of doing
6:38
Speaker 1: a truck stops. You know, they called them a lot lizards, right,
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Speaker 1: So a lot of women go to truck stops to
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Speaker 1: sell themselves for sex. You know what, Vincent. I appreciate
6:49
Speaker 1: your recollections on, as you say, a lot lizards, but
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Speaker 1: right now, I don't think any tip is worth discounting.
6:58
Speaker 1: Before we go off on a dissertation regarding women at
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Speaker 1: truck stops, I'm asking you about surveillance video at truck
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Speaker 1: stops and tag grabbers. Yeah, the tag grabber would be
7:13
Speaker 1: great because, like you said, it takes the picture, it
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Speaker 1: can send it to the law enforcement. They could actually
7:19
Speaker 1: try to get a location on a vehicle, pull it
7:22
Speaker 1: over to investigate it. But I'm just simply saying that
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Speaker 1: I don't think investigators should spend an enormous amount of
7:29
Speaker 1: time chasing this lead because you would still have to
7:32
Speaker 1: account for how Molly got two hundred and fifty miles
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Speaker 1: away with no trace of her cell phone, her fitbit,
7:39
Speaker 1: or anything like that. So you still have to take
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Speaker 1: all of that into consideration. Joining us right now Teresa
7:46
Speaker 1: Peyton special guest uh. She is the current CEO of
7:50
Speaker 1: industry leading security consulting company fertilized solutions. Former White House
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Speaker 1: Chief Information Officer Teresa thank you for being with us
8:00
Speaker 1: the the whole issue of the fitbit. We hear about
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Speaker 1: it over and over and over, and a lot of
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Speaker 1: people are discounting this, apparently, including Vincent, are discounting this
8:13
Speaker 1: unconfirmed sighting. And you know what, Teresa, they may be right,
8:18
Speaker 1: but at this point, cops, law enforcement, FBI cannot afford
8:22
Speaker 1: to discount anything. They really can't. And you know, I
8:28
Speaker 1: applaud the teams that are working on this, and I
8:31
Speaker 1: know from working missing persons cases in the past, everybody's
8:35
Speaker 1: working around the clock, and and there is software that
8:38
Speaker 1: you can use, so with the surveillance videos, with license
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Speaker 1: plate readers, there is software that you can use that
8:44
Speaker 1: can sort of comb through this and try and get
8:47
Speaker 1: you down to uh, you know, kind of reverse facial recognition.
8:50
Speaker 1: Look up, you can type in some keyword searches and
8:54
Speaker 1: try and speed this up. And certainly if they would
8:57
Speaker 1: be open to volunteers, I know my team and I
9:00
Speaker 1: have done pro bono work on missing persons cases in
9:04
Speaker 1: the past, and I'm certain that you know, kind of
9:06
Speaker 1: the whole country this is captured um their attention and
9:09
Speaker 1: I'm sure people would help comb through. Uh, I'm sure
9:13
Speaker 1: it feels to them like it's tons and tons of
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Speaker 1: sand and you're sifting through it to try and find
9:18
Speaker 1: that one gem that might help help crack the case. Guys,
9:22
Speaker 1: take a listen to Kevin Winkler with the Iowa Department
9:25
Speaker 1: Public Safety. Listen after one of the basic facts is
9:28
Speaker 1: where she disappeared from. Some of the family members that
9:31
Speaker 1: indicated to the evidence suggests she may have returned home
9:34
Speaker 1: after the run. Do you believe she disappeared on the
9:37
Speaker 1: run or after she returned home. Well, I mean, that's
9:40
Speaker 1: one of those details that that I'm I'm not going
9:43
Speaker 1: to discuss today. I'm as I said, I believe, Um,
9:47
Speaker 1: we have a good timeline that we're working off of,
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Speaker 1: and I'm confident the investigative team is doing everything they
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Speaker 1: can to make sure that that is a solid timeline
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Speaker 1: and is generating the appropriate leads to follow up on.
9:59
Speaker 1: Isn't it needs to response though, no angler she disappeared from,
10:02
Speaker 1: whether psponder, run on that route book, everything, everything is important. Absolutely. Um,
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Speaker 1: the question becomes, is it something that I need to
10:12
Speaker 1: be sharing right now? As opposed to the investigative team
10:14
Speaker 1: following up on. So absolutely every detail that we have
10:18
Speaker 1: related to this investigation is important. UM So I'll leave
10:22
Speaker 1: it at that. This is what we know. We know
10:27
Speaker 1: that authorities are saying, had Tibot's been seen in surveillance
10:31
Speaker 1: video that they reviewed, it would have been mentioned in
10:35
Speaker 1: this statement to reporters. That's what cops are saying. That
10:39
Speaker 1: leads me to believe after reviewing the video, they do
10:42
Speaker 1: not believe this is Molly Tibbitts. I don't have a
10:45
Speaker 1: clear answer. It seems like from what I'm hearing to
10:48
Speaker 1: Teresa Peyton, it sounds like cops are not telling us
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Speaker 1: what they believe went down. Because you just heard a
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Speaker 1: direct question to the Iowa Department of Public Safety Kevin
11:00
Speaker 1: Winkler about was she taken while she was running, which
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Speaker 1: was your first timeline or no? Because reports now surfacing
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Speaker 1: that computer searches reveal she was working on homework on
11:13
Speaker 1: our computer late that night when she went missing, and
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Speaker 1: that is inconsistent with an earlier jog that evening. That
11:21
Speaker 1: tells me what I suspected all along, she was taken
11:25
Speaker 1: or left from the home. Teresa, Yeah, I think so.
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Speaker 1: That to me when I heard she was doing homework. So,
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Speaker 1: first of all, was it online homework? Did she check
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Speaker 1: in with a teacher? Did she check in with classmates?
11:38
Speaker 1: A lot of times these online courses and online homework
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Speaker 1: have chat rooms. Did she communicate with anybody? Is it
11:44
Speaker 1: possible if we checked the sexual um, you know, offenders
11:48
Speaker 1: database to see are there people registered that are within
11:51
Speaker 1: several miles? Did they happen to notice, you know, this
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Speaker 1: time around her boyfriend and the brother aren't there at
11:55
Speaker 1: the house. She seems to be alone. I mean, those
11:58
Speaker 1: are maybe these are all things investigators have taken a
12:01
Speaker 1: look at and just haven't shared with us because they're
12:04
Speaker 1: worried they're going to tip their hand to the bad guy.
12:06
Speaker 1: But um, it does tell me with that inconsistency that
12:09
Speaker 1: there are possibly some clues. Whatever device she was using
12:14
Speaker 1: to do her homework, there could be some clues. We
12:17
Speaker 1: could look through her search history, we could look through um,
12:20
Speaker 1: you know, her cash, we could look at files that
12:22
Speaker 1: were created, we could look at other pictures that she sent.
12:25
Speaker 1: And oh, by the way, I heard that she sent
12:27
Speaker 1: a snapchat. Snapchats can be recovered and there are some
12:33
Speaker 1: tools that can help you recover it if you don't
12:36
Speaker 1: want to wait for the subpoena process. So there's a
12:38
Speaker 1: lot of things here that you know, kind of time
12:41
Speaker 1: is of the essence when somebody goes missing, you know,
12:43
Speaker 1: the longer they're gone, as you know Nancy Grace Um,
12:46
Speaker 1: the harder the trail gets to follow. Well. Also Teresa
12:49
Speaker 1: with me is Dodger. Brian Russell from Investigation Discoveries Fatal
12:54
Speaker 1: Vows hit series, new season premiering August eleven, Vincent Hilcock
12:59
Speaker 1: turned Ei, Karen Smith forensics expert, Ashley Willcott, juvenile judge,
13:05
Speaker 1: lawyer and founder child crime watch dot Com, Lee Egan
13:09
Speaker 1: Crime online dot com investigative reporter. And Teresa Peyton, CEO
13:14
Speaker 1: of security consulting company Fertilize Solutions. Teresa, I want to
13:18
Speaker 1: talk quickly what you just said about snapchat. The boyfriend
13:22
Speaker 1: who is working out of Tanna Dubik about two hours
13:24
Speaker 1: away on a construction job, says that he opened a
13:29
Speaker 1: snapchat from her at ten pm. That does not necessarily
13:33
Speaker 1: mean she sent it at ten pm, or does it.
13:36
Speaker 1: It does not mean that's when she sent it. Um
13:39
Speaker 1: if he opened it attends she could have sent it
13:41
Speaker 1: the day before. She could have sent it any time
13:44
Speaker 1: that day. UM. Typically what happens is once the receiver,
13:48
Speaker 1: the intended receiver opens it and views it, it disappears
13:52
Speaker 1: from view. But as I always tell everybody, delete doesn't
13:55
Speaker 1: mean delete, and so there are ways to recover those
13:58
Speaker 1: messages and it doesn't have to be through a subpoena.
14:01
Speaker 1: If the user themselves wants to recover them, it is
14:05
Speaker 1: considered legal for them to recover missing messages. And there's
14:08
Speaker 1: a couple of different tools that he could use. And
14:11
Speaker 1: I'm happy to sort of pass this along for you
14:13
Speaker 1: to be able to post online. You know, another issue, Teresa,
14:17
Speaker 1: is the fitbit. We now know the FBI have moved
14:20
Speaker 1: in and they've taken over the investigation. What about the fitbit?
14:25
Speaker 1: What can we learn from that? If anything, If she
14:29
Speaker 1: has the fitbit on her and it is charged, the
14:33
Speaker 1: fitbit will actually depending on what model of fipit it is.
14:36
Speaker 1: If it's like the first generation fitbit UM, it's pretty
14:39
Speaker 1: much only going to give a sort of direction and
14:42
Speaker 1: time and not a whole lot else. The more um
14:45
Speaker 1: kind of modern fitbits have a little bit more information
14:48
Speaker 1: like pulse and pace and speed and a little bit
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Speaker 1: more granularity that could help us sort of geo locate
14:57
Speaker 1: like how her run went and some of those things,
14:59
Speaker 1: so that information is going to be vital UM. As
15:02
Speaker 1: a matter of fact, we actually used UM for people
15:05
Speaker 1: who have watched our show Hunted UM, which is a
15:08
Speaker 1: reality TV show chasing contestants trying to go off the grid.
15:11
Speaker 1: We actually a fit It was actually really key to
15:13
Speaker 1: our investigation. So this that data could be incredibly valuable
15:18
Speaker 1: and helpful. If somebody in the family knows how to
15:20
Speaker 1: log into her fitbit account UM, which usually that data
15:25
Speaker 1: stored on the cloud, they may be able to get
15:27
Speaker 1: some of the information faster than just waiting for the subpoena. Also,
15:31
Speaker 1: the mother, Laura Calderwood, speaking out in the last hours.
15:36
Speaker 1: Listen to what the mom says. It is just, you know,
15:42
Speaker 1: an emotional roller coaster. It's a nightmare she's unable to
15:46
Speaker 1: wake up from. Laura Calderwood can't look anywhere in her
15:49
Speaker 1: hometown of Brooklyn, Iowa without seeing her daughter Molly's face
15:54
Speaker 1: on a missing person poster. It's a reality check every
15:58
Speaker 1: time I see one of those posters. Also, you know,
16:02
Speaker 1: it's like she's gone. Twenty year old Molly Tibbots vanished
16:08
Speaker 1: nearly two weeks ago. Her mom immediately knew something bad
16:12
Speaker 1: must have happened. I knew something was terribly wrong. She
16:15
Speaker 1: wouldn't not go to work. My greatest fear is that
16:18
Speaker 1: we wouldn't find her UM, But I can't go there
16:26
Speaker 1: right now. Calderwood says Molly was seen out on a
16:29
Speaker 1: jog around seven thirty pm on ju To the best
16:34
Speaker 1: of my knowledge, I believe she did make it home
16:38
Speaker 1: from the run and Um was in Dalton's home. The
16:44
Speaker 1: family says evidence shows Tibbots was doing homework on her
16:48
Speaker 1: computer after her jog that night. That's Molly's mom speaking
16:52
Speaker 1: to kse c I TV. You know what it is
16:57
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17:01
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17:04
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17:08
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17:13
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17:16
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17:21
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17:33
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17:42
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17:46
Speaker 1: new season of Cold Justice Saturday, six pm, Eastern, five
17:51
Speaker 1: Central on Oxygen. The search for Iowa student Molly Tibbitts
17:58
Speaker 1: goes on as new information seems to be emerging and
18:02
Speaker 1: unconfirmed sighting of the girl at a truck stop two
18:07
Speaker 1: fifty miles away. Ashley Wilcott, junital judge, founder of child
18:11
Speaker 1: Crime watch dot com. It doesn't seem to me that
18:15
Speaker 1: police believe that was Molly. That's what it sounds like
18:17
Speaker 1: to me too. But I'm you know, the good news
18:19
Speaker 1: is they did look into it, they have investigated. I'm
18:21
Speaker 1: sure they know details they haven't shared with us. But Nancy,
18:24
Speaker 1: this is why I love your show, because somebody out
18:27
Speaker 1: there knows exactly what happened or where she is or
18:30
Speaker 1: what's going on. And so anybody who has anything, even
18:33
Speaker 1: if they think it's mine or not important, they've got
18:35
Speaker 1: to report it because they're looking at all the tips
18:38
Speaker 1: and we've got to figure out where she is well
18:40
Speaker 1: as she she didn't just drop off the face of
18:43
Speaker 1: the earth all right now. Now we hear the mother
18:47
Speaker 1: saying she believes Molly came back to the home to
18:51
Speaker 1: do homework. We we know that she did not disappear jogging.
18:56
Speaker 1: That's wrong, bam. So let let's just talk about the
19:00
Speaker 1: reality as we know. She was back in the home, Ashley.
19:03
Speaker 1: And that's a huge piece because there's also a boyfriend
19:06
Speaker 1: in this and I recognize that the reports are that
19:09
Speaker 1: he had an alibi, he was somewhere that he wasn't there.
19:11
Speaker 1: But having said that, everything that that was reported as
19:17
Speaker 1: this is what's happened, we have now learned as not true.
19:20
Speaker 1: She was back in the home. So did she meet somebody?
19:23
Speaker 1: Did somebody break into the home? We don't know, but
19:27
Speaker 1: somebody knows. It did not happen in a vacuum. It
19:32
Speaker 1: never does, you know. We we also know this to
19:35
Speaker 1: Lee Egan, Crime online dot Com investigative reporter uh speaking
19:41
Speaker 1: of the home. We you hear the investigator, the investigative journalists,
19:48
Speaker 1: the reporters saying, what was the side of the home.
19:51
Speaker 1: What do we know? Well, cops aren't telling us, but
19:54
Speaker 1: we heard the dad say, the fathers say that the
19:58
Speaker 1: dogs were in perfect condition and there was no discussion
20:02
Speaker 1: whatsoever of the home being ransacked or anything taken as
20:06
Speaker 1: a matter of fact, Lee, isn't it true that the
20:09
Speaker 1: boyfriend has just come out saying that he doubts pretty
20:13
Speaker 1: seriously if she even locked the door. That's exactly what
20:16
Speaker 1: he said. He said that Brooklyn is such a small
20:18
Speaker 1: town that's it's not common for people to lock their doors.
20:23
Speaker 1: So he thinks that he didn't come out and say
20:26
Speaker 1: he thought somebody broke in, but he did say that
20:29
Speaker 1: he was pretty sure she did not lock their door.
20:31
Speaker 1: Take a listen to Molly's boyfriend speaking at w o
20:34
Speaker 1: I t V and de Moines. Listen, this is not
20:37
Speaker 1: like her, don'tland Jack is living in a nightmare. I
20:40
Speaker 1: figured i'd speak to her in an hour or so,
20:44
Speaker 1: and right now it's one he can't wake up from.
20:47
Speaker 1: I came home as soon as her mom said that
20:49
Speaker 1: she called the hospital and she wasn't there. The last
20:51
Speaker 1: time the twenty year old saw Molly was on Wednesday
20:53
Speaker 1: at ten pm when he opened a snapchat from her.
20:56
Speaker 1: It was just a selfie with the caption and I
20:59
Speaker 1: don't remember the cat and said, but it looked like
21:01
Speaker 1: she was inside. He never thought he wouldn't hear from
21:03
Speaker 1: her again. When he said her early Thursday morning, he
21:06
Speaker 1: didn't notice the message hadn't been read until her friend
21:09
Speaker 1: called late that afternoon. One of her co workers called me,
21:12
Speaker 1: said Molly had not called into work that day and
21:15
Speaker 1: she hadn't showed up. And then I looked at the
21:17
Speaker 1: messages and she hadn't opened or read any of them.
21:21
Speaker 1: So I started getting in contact with her friends and
21:24
Speaker 1: her family, saying, hey, have you seen her? Have you
21:26
Speaker 1: heard from her? And everybody came up with the same thing. No,
21:29
Speaker 1: I haven't seen her since yesterday. He's so sweet. I've
21:34
Speaker 1: never seen her be angry or mean to anybody in
21:38
Speaker 1: the almost three years that we've been dating. To not
21:41
Speaker 1: know where she is unsettling and he's gone numb. If
21:45
Speaker 1: this is her running off, this is just nobody was
21:48
Speaker 1: seen coming. Nobody in nobody in the world, not her family,
21:52
Speaker 1: not me. Nobody would have ever guessed that she would
21:56
Speaker 1: just take off and not tell anybody while law enforcement
21:59
Speaker 1: continued to search for her. There's just one thing he
22:02
Speaker 1: wants Molly to know. I miss you so much. And
22:07
Speaker 1: now that's not all that the boyfriend, dald and Jack
22:11
Speaker 1: had to say. Listen to this I don't want to
22:15
Speaker 1: go racking it through my brain thinking of what happened,
22:17
Speaker 1: what happened, what happened, just driving myself insane because I
22:21
Speaker 1: know everybody else around here is and you just gotta
22:25
Speaker 1: lead by example. I love you, and I miss you,
22:27
Speaker 1: and I want you to come home. Interesting. Interesting that
22:30
Speaker 1: he is gonna not go crazy trying to figure out
22:34
Speaker 1: what happened to Molly. You know, the more I listened
22:37
Speaker 1: to it to you, Teresa Peyton, does it sound to
22:42
Speaker 1: you like the boyfriend thinks she just took off on
22:45
Speaker 1: her own. I you know, it's really hard to say
22:50
Speaker 1: because he hasn't really shared with like, well, here are
22:52
Speaker 1: the things she likes to do when we don't hear
22:55
Speaker 1: from her, and even her parents say it's kind of uncharacteristic.
22:58
Speaker 1: I mean, I have a couple of sins too, about
23:00
Speaker 1: the dogs, and I mean, I've got to rescue great Pyrenees.
23:04
Speaker 1: There's no way somebody's coming in the front door without
23:07
Speaker 1: the neighbors knowing me knowing um and if and if
23:11
Speaker 1: somebody took me against my will, I'm like, woe be
23:13
Speaker 1: to them? Right with the dogs, now, I don't know
23:15
Speaker 1: the personality of the boyfriend's dog, but I would find
23:18
Speaker 1: it really surprising. It almost feels to me like the
23:23
Speaker 1: dogs knew the person she left with, unless she left alone.
23:27
Speaker 1: That's exactly right. I'm sorry, Nancy, I gotta jump in.
23:31
Speaker 1: And it's almost like the boyfriend is kind of talking
23:34
Speaker 1: in past till it's not like her to just take off.
23:37
Speaker 1: If this is her, we would have never seen it coming.
23:40
Speaker 1: And I've always questioned the dogs. You don't walk in
23:43
Speaker 1: on dogs. I used to have a German shepherd in
23:45
Speaker 1: the Belgian Malon law. And to Teresa's point, you're not
23:49
Speaker 1: getting me out of the house without the neighbors and
23:52
Speaker 1: everyone else hearing it. So it had to be someone
23:55
Speaker 1: the dogs were comfortable with if someone came inside that home.
23:59
Speaker 1: You know, another issue regarding the dogs that you guys
24:01
Speaker 1: are focusing on. The dogs were kept in the basement.
24:04
Speaker 1: So if the dog, if she went jogging, took the
24:07
Speaker 1: dogs for a walk, brings them in, feeds them, whatever,
24:11
Speaker 1: puts them in the basement, they would have no idea
24:14
Speaker 1: what was going on upstairs. The dogs routinely were kept
24:18
Speaker 1: in the basement. Don't know if that's where they found them.
24:21
Speaker 1: If not, then you're dead on if they were in
24:24
Speaker 1: the basement, it's not gonna help. I think they still
24:27
Speaker 1: would have made a commotion, though, Nancy, if if they heard,
24:30
Speaker 1: because you can't just take in a dolt against their
24:36
Speaker 1: will without them making some type of noise. So I
24:38
Speaker 1: think the dogs still would have make I agree. But
24:41
Speaker 1: let's look at the timeline too, Karen Smith, forensics expert.
24:47
Speaker 1: It was much later when the day had passed, and
24:54
Speaker 1: it was much later when the boyfriend, Dalton Jack realizes
24:59
Speaker 1: she hasn't come to work. He drives back the two hours.
25:03
Speaker 1: The dogs are not gonna be bersark still at that point,
25:09
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm all about dogs. I have a rescue dog,
25:13
Speaker 1: a rescue cat to rescue guinea pigs. But to say,
25:17
Speaker 1: to suggest that somebody she knew because the dogs were
25:21
Speaker 1: not in a froth, you know a day later that
25:25
Speaker 1: that means nothing to me. Karen, No, it doesn't mean
25:28
Speaker 1: much to me. And and like you said, if they're
25:30
Speaker 1: in the basement, yes there may have been a commotion,
25:32
Speaker 1: would have been overheard. I don't know. I'm really not
25:35
Speaker 1: familiar with with the home or where she was living
25:37
Speaker 1: at the time. But yeah, when you come home and
25:40
Speaker 1: the dogs are behaving, like, hey, you know, feed me,
25:42
Speaker 1: give me water. I'm hungry. It's great to see you.
25:44
Speaker 1: My tails wagging. They're not going to give away that
25:48
Speaker 1: something nefarious has happened in the house. My question goes
25:52
Speaker 1: to the forensics and all of the doors. If they
25:55
Speaker 1: were unlocked, that's fine, but did they check. I'm sure
25:57
Speaker 1: they did all the windows, the other doors. Um, was
26:00
Speaker 1: there any swabs of the door handles taken? And he
26:02
Speaker 1: swabs of the locks, things that they can follow up on,
26:05
Speaker 1: some feign DNA that may be there. That's where my
26:08
Speaker 1: forensic brain goes at this point. Another issue that we're
26:12
Speaker 1: now learning to Dr Brian Russell. Maybe you can explain
26:16
Speaker 1: this to me. You're also a psychologist, host of IDs
26:18
Speaker 1: yet show Fatal Vows, Dr Brian. The boyfriend Dalton Jack
26:24
Speaker 1: has now also come out and said he doubts, really
26:27
Speaker 1: seriously that she locked the doors. He says, nothing ever
26:32
Speaker 1: happens in the town, it's less than two thousand people.
26:35
Speaker 1: He doesn't think she locked the doors. What's that mentality,
26:38
Speaker 1: Dr Brian. Well, there's a certain flatness to the way
26:44
Speaker 1: that he speaks about this, and I can, on the
26:47
Speaker 1: one hand, see how he may be sort of um,
26:53
Speaker 1: sort of opening various doors to things that could have
26:56
Speaker 1: had like alluding to, well, maybe she could have run away,
26:59
Speaker 1: or maybe you shoe didn't lock the door and there
27:01
Speaker 1: could have been a home invasion, and and then making
27:05
Speaker 1: this kind of bizarre comment about well, I'm not really
27:07
Speaker 1: going to wrack my brain trying to figure it all out.
27:10
Speaker 1: And and I can see how some listeners may be thinking, Okay,
27:14
Speaker 1: I'm despite the fact that we hear he's got an alibi,
27:18
Speaker 1: I'm I'm having some suspicions about him. But I can
27:21
Speaker 1: also see how he may be a little bit of
27:25
Speaker 1: just sort of a typical sort of self focused millennial
27:28
Speaker 1: that that this is really bothering me, and people are
27:31
Speaker 1: suspecting me, and and and so I want to deflect,
27:35
Speaker 1: and I want to I want to make it clear
27:37
Speaker 1: that I am very upset and I don't have anything
27:40
Speaker 1: to do with this, and it's really upsetting me. Okay.
27:43
Speaker 1: So another thing, though, that I would like to point
27:46
Speaker 1: out here is that you've heard Teresa Peyton say a
27:49
Speaker 1: couple of times, uh that when you are looking for
27:53
Speaker 1: data from somebody's electronic devices, whether it be their cell phone,
27:57
Speaker 1: their fit, that whatever you might have to wait for
28:00
Speaker 1: a subpoena process to play out. And that's true. And
28:04
Speaker 1: one thing that I think parents listening to this can
28:08
Speaker 1: learn today is that when your child becomes an adult,
28:14
Speaker 1: if something like this, God forbid occurs, you are not
28:18
Speaker 1: going to be able to just call up a T
28:20
Speaker 1: and T, call up Apple, call up whoever, and say
28:24
Speaker 1: our child's missing. I'm the mom, I want the information.
28:29
Speaker 1: It doesn't work that way when you're dealing with an adult.
28:31
Speaker 1: And so this is reason number you know, fifty seven
28:35
Speaker 1: for parents of young adults who are off at college
28:39
Speaker 1: like this young woman, was to get your child to
28:42
Speaker 1: do powers of attorney that give you the ability to
28:48
Speaker 1: step into their legal shoes and get at their information,
28:53
Speaker 1: get into their car, get into their apartment, get into
28:56
Speaker 1: their bank accounts, get into their credit card records, all
28:59
Speaker 1: the kinds of things. Is that you might otherwise, as
29:01
Speaker 1: Teresa wisely pointed out, have to wait for a subpoena
29:05
Speaker 1: to do and as we know, every hour that passes by,
29:10
Speaker 1: it gets statistically less likely. I'm sorry to say that
29:14
Speaker 1: we're going to find somebody alive. Back to Teresa Peyton
29:17
Speaker 1: joining us, Let's take a look at exactly what Tibet's
29:21
Speaker 1: boyfriend Dalton Jack says, quote, it's more than likely because
29:26
Speaker 1: nobody ever thought there was a reason to lock the
29:29
Speaker 1: doors is Brooklyn. Nothing ever happens in Brooklyn. That's why
29:33
Speaker 1: it's just a blind sided situation. We know the twenty
29:37
Speaker 1: year old girls staying to dog sit at her boyfriend's home.
29:43
Speaker 1: Were the doors unlocked. We've heard nothing Teresa about a
29:47
Speaker 1: fourth century. Yeah, so here's here's what I'd be doing.
29:50
Speaker 1: If she has a work computer, I would go to
29:53
Speaker 1: the office. I would ask for her last Internet searches, documents,
29:56
Speaker 1: access to her cloud accounts the family, UM or the investigators.
30:01
Speaker 1: If she left the device behind that she was doing
30:03
Speaker 1: the homework on, UM, we need to get in those
30:06
Speaker 1: personal cloud accounts. We may actually be able to see
30:09
Speaker 1: other messages she sent back and forth. UM. Candidly, I
30:13
Speaker 1: would track the digital footprint of the boyfriend and any
30:16
Speaker 1: friends around him. There could be some jealousy, I mean,
30:19
Speaker 1: who knows. I mean basically, you've got to take sort
30:22
Speaker 1: of the circle of trusts that was around her and
30:26
Speaker 1: look at everybody's digital footprints. UM, look for her log
30:30
Speaker 1: and information, Look for I P addresses, look for WiFi hotspots,
30:34
Speaker 1: that she was connecting to from these cloud accounts, because
30:37
Speaker 1: that could tell you, well, after she went jogging, she
30:40
Speaker 1: went to a coffee shop and she connected to a
30:42
Speaker 1: Starbucks WiFi or you know a local UM coffee shop WiFi.
30:46
Speaker 1: Look for her web in search cash pull that off
30:49
Speaker 1: the computer. UM do password resets if she's not logged in.
30:53
Speaker 1: Most people stay logged in all the time to all
30:56
Speaker 1: of their accounts, to their mail accounts, their social media accounts,
31:00
Speaker 1: their cloud accounts, and oftentimes it's just a matter of
31:03
Speaker 1: opening up the account and you can see the information
31:05
Speaker 1: and then there's all that metadata in there that could
31:08
Speaker 1: tell us her pattern of life before she disappeared, which
31:12
Speaker 1: then we could use to correlate and maybe guess what
31:16
Speaker 1: happened to her and where did she go next. The
31:18
Speaker 1: other thing I haven't heard mention is does she drive
31:22
Speaker 1: a car and does that car have Is it a
31:25
Speaker 1: newer car that may have a tracking device. Is it
31:27
Speaker 1: a newer car or did they post factory install uh
31:31
Speaker 1: satellite radio because if they did, we could track some
31:34
Speaker 1: of the movements. Again, we gotta get her pattern of
31:37
Speaker 1: life before she left, so we have to be building
31:40
Speaker 1: where do we think she went, what are all those
31:42
Speaker 1: clues and following up all those well at the same
31:44
Speaker 1: time building up what led to that disappearance, because chances
31:48
Speaker 1: are maybe it was a chance meeting at the coffee shop,
31:51
Speaker 1: maybe with somebody at work, maybe it was somebody at school.
31:54
Speaker 1: We don't know. And until we start getting that profile
31:57
Speaker 1: set up, um, you know, every lead's not gonna you know,
32:01
Speaker 1: it may look wonderful or it may look bad. We
32:04
Speaker 1: don't know until we can sort of match it back
32:06
Speaker 1: up to that that digital footprint. All of this with
32:09
Speaker 1: a backdrop of a destination wedding in the Dominican Republic.
32:13
Speaker 1: The boyfriend Dalton Jack and his brother Blake were on
32:19
Speaker 1: the cuts planning to leave the small town, Iowa home
32:25
Speaker 1: for a once in a lifetime trip to Dominican Republic.
32:29
Speaker 1: The brother, twenty three year old Blake, set to Mary,
32:33
Speaker 1: his fiancee, by the beach in front of Dalton and
32:37
Speaker 1: Molly Tibbitts um he had jokingly told Dalton Jack he
32:43
Speaker 1: should propose to Tibbitts on their trip to Dominican Republic. Now,
32:47
Speaker 1: with that in the background, one of the happiest times
32:50
Speaker 1: of their life has now turned into a nightmare. Lee Egan.
32:53
Speaker 1: I understand they have postponed the wedding. They postponed the wedding,
32:58
Speaker 1: and Blake, the brother, is lashing out at all the
33:01
Speaker 1: backlash that they're getting. He is trying to convince people
33:04
Speaker 1: there's no way him or anyone and his family had
33:07
Speaker 1: anything to do with her disappearance, and that the wedding
33:10
Speaker 1: is off while they continue to help search for her.
33:13
Speaker 1: You know what, Dr Brian, I don't blame them. I
33:15
Speaker 1: wouldn't want a wedding, my wedding that for me to
33:18
Speaker 1: have the memory that the whole time during the wedding,
33:22
Speaker 1: I was thinking about, where is Molly? Feeling guilty for
33:25
Speaker 1: being at a destination wedding and not looking for her. Yeah,
33:29
Speaker 1: I think they had to postponent. Of course, if they
33:33
Speaker 1: had not, I would have thought that was that was
33:37
Speaker 1: morbidly fascinating because I just got married last month, and
33:41
Speaker 1: and I can't imagine having had that ceremony with a
33:46
Speaker 1: pall like this cast over it and cast over my family,
33:50
Speaker 1: and for I don't know how anybody could come to
33:52
Speaker 1: it and enjoy it, let alone enjoy it myself. So
33:56
Speaker 1: you know, I just keep coming back to the statistics
34:01
Speaker 1: on this and you know, you look at was this
34:05
Speaker 1: her in the truck stop? I think the statistics would
34:08
Speaker 1: say it's it's very unlikely, given all the publicity around
34:12
Speaker 1: this case, that if if the driver of the truck
34:15
Speaker 1: in which she showed up and left the truck stop
34:18
Speaker 1: had anything to do with that, that that they would
34:23
Speaker 1: have let that happen, that they would have let themselves
34:26
Speaker 1: be seen there. And I also have to point out
34:29
Speaker 1: that that, you know, if if she were home alone
34:32
Speaker 1: in the house, didn't lock the doors, locked them whatever, uh,
34:36
Speaker 1: and there were some kind of a home invasion, the
34:39
Speaker 1: statistics would say the purpose was a sexual assault. And
34:43
Speaker 1: then the statistics would also say it's very unusual that
34:45
Speaker 1: that they would have the person who perpetrated that would
34:48
Speaker 1: have been taken her from the scene. I mean, if
34:51
Speaker 1: she was there by herself, there would be no need
34:53
Speaker 1: to take her to some other place to to do
34:55
Speaker 1: the assault. So it makes me think that that that
35:00
Speaker 1: whomever she came in contact with that night, she thought
35:03
Speaker 1: she was safe with. Initially, I know that Blake Jack
35:07
Speaker 1: the brother, said that all the scrutiny on him and
35:11
Speaker 1: his brother is very very hurtful. Investigators say they have
35:17
Speaker 1: confirmed the whereabouts of both of them. The reward in
35:22
Speaker 1: the search for Molly Tibbitts now climbing up to thirty
35:26
Speaker 1: thousand dollars tipline eight hundred four five to one one
35:30
Speaker 1: one one, eight hundred four five to one one one
35:35
Speaker 1: one or five one five two to three hundred five
35:41
Speaker 1: one five two to three hundred. In the last hours,
35:46
Speaker 1: l A p D release dramatic body cam video of
35:51
Speaker 1: a shooting. It all goes down at a Central Lutheran church.
35:58
Speaker 1: Take a listen to the won one call emergen, Hi,
36:03
Speaker 1: I want someone who stopped somebody. I location. I need
36:06
Speaker 1: the police now. I don't know where you are. There're
36:11
Speaker 1: four to five time own avenue. That a housetop, priman
36:14
Speaker 1: of business. It's a listening to the church. That's a church.
36:20
Speaker 1: Is the person looked at the stabbing still there? Yes?
36:23
Speaker 1: Or is it a man? I want? Is the black
36:25
Speaker 1: but it's Hispanic man. We'll call it your pathers. You
36:29
Speaker 1: have on he has a marooon. Start with green army
36:33
Speaker 1: short raziness abulance turning six two five tow on avenue
36:37
Speaker 1: six two five on the avenue at Central Lutheran Church.
36:40
Speaker 1: That's the Spanic ring. It burnsady shirt, green camel short
36:43
Speaker 1: still at the location. It's Goll three incident two six
36:45
Speaker 1: seven one ear Now, I want you to have the
36:48
Speaker 1: backdrop of what went down outside of the Central Lutheran
36:53
Speaker 1: Church in l A. What we know is that the attacker,
37:00
Speaker 1: Gearmo Perez, tried to saw off a hostage's head. That's
37:08
Speaker 1: the report, tried to saw off a hostage's head right
37:13
Speaker 1: there in a group of people. So have that in
37:17
Speaker 1: mind when we are taking a look at l A
37:20
Speaker 1: p D's reaction. Now take a listen to Commander Alan
37:24
Speaker 1: Hamilton's he's presenting the radio traffic from the l A
37:28
Speaker 1: p D helicopter frantically directing patrol cars to the scene. Listen,
37:34
Speaker 1: and l APD helicopter arrived overhead at the scene and
37:37
Speaker 1: directed the responding patrol units to prepress his location. An
37:40
Speaker 1: officer in the helicopter also warned the responding units that
37:43
Speaker 1: pres had a large knife in his hand. Here's the
37:46
Speaker 1: audio of that broadcast. A backup, suspect, don't have the
37:50
Speaker 1: knife in his hand at a skateboard and have you
37:54
Speaker 1: victory only if I get one unit to Tyrone and
37:59
Speaker 1: one north of victory at Gilmour and all their case.
38:03
Speaker 1: You're hearing as cauts frantically direct patrol cars to this incident.
38:08
Speaker 1: Joining me right now, Alan Duke, Crime Stories investigative reporter, Alan,
38:15
Speaker 1: tell me what happened. This happened at a food shelter
38:19
Speaker 1: that is in Van Nuys, just two blocks from the
38:22
Speaker 1: police station. The Van Nuys police station. Every day, all
38:26
Speaker 1: of the homeless people and other people who need food
38:28
Speaker 1: to line up, and this man was a regular there.
38:32
Speaker 1: Perez was somebody that people knew. He was there with
38:35
Speaker 1: his girlfriend, her name Esther, and they got into an
38:40
Speaker 1: argument at the food shelters standing in line. Perez then
38:45
Speaker 1: pulled out a knife and cut his girlfriend, cut her
38:49
Speaker 1: on the hand, and that's when that nine one one
38:51
Speaker 1: call was placed, the first one that we heard, and
38:54
Speaker 1: police rushed to the scene. He didn't leave, he didn't flee.
38:58
Speaker 1: Like I said, This was just two blocks from the
39:00
Speaker 1: police station. It didn't take them long to get there.
39:02
Speaker 1: And as you're hearing in all of our audio, you
39:04
Speaker 1: hear them frantically rushing there, but of course following their protocol.
39:09
Speaker 1: As we are hearing, when they get there, they see
39:13
Speaker 1: him and Los Angeles Police Commander Alan Hamilton's then shows
39:18
Speaker 1: us the body cam and by the way, you can
39:19
Speaker 1: see this on crime online dot com the body cam
39:22
Speaker 1: that the l a p D has just released. In
39:25
Speaker 1: this you show you see what the officers saw when
39:30
Speaker 1: they arrived on the scene. You know, Alan, right now,
39:33
Speaker 1: the l a p D taking a lot of heat
39:36
Speaker 1: because an innocent bystander was also shot during all of this.
39:41
Speaker 1: Take a listen to again. L a p D Commander
39:45
Speaker 1: Alan Hamilton's peress began walking away from the officers and
39:49
Speaker 1: went over to a woman standing against the wall. Peress
39:52
Speaker 1: dropped the chair. It took the woman hostage by grabbing
39:54
Speaker 1: her and moving her in front of him. He then
39:57
Speaker 1: placed a large knife to her throat and gripped it
40:00
Speaker 1: opposite ends with both hands and applied pressure. Witnesses stated
40:04
Speaker 1: that he moved the knife in his sawing motion against
40:06
Speaker 1: her throat and cut her throat. That is when three
40:09
Speaker 1: officers fired their handguns at Perez. Perez was struck by
40:13
Speaker 1: gunfire and fell to the ground. Tragically, Perez's hostage was
40:17
Speaker 1: also struck by gunfire and collapse. Okay, this is what
40:42
Speaker 1: we know. We know the l a p D first
40:46
Speaker 1: tried using bean bags shotguns all right to try to
40:50
Speaker 1: stop Perez and you can hear them shooting bean bags,
40:54
Speaker 1: being bag ready, being bag ready, as they order him
40:58
Speaker 1: repeatedly to drop his knife to visit hill private investigator.
41:02
Speaker 1: A beam back round is also um a flexible baton round.
41:07
Speaker 1: It's fired, it's like a shotgun shell, but it is
41:10
Speaker 1: less lethal. What is it? Yeah, that's exactly right, man,
41:15
Speaker 1: it's less than lethal force. It's just what it says,
41:18
Speaker 1: a bean bag that leaves a pretty large bruise on you.
41:22
Speaker 1: It hurts really bad. So these officers try less than
41:26
Speaker 1: lethal force. And this is why I always say on
41:27
Speaker 1: my podcast Beyond the Badge, everyone wants the Monday morning quarterback,
41:32
Speaker 1: split second decision that that officers have, and I definitely
41:36
Speaker 1: don't want to, you know, Monday morning quarterback, their decision
41:40
Speaker 1: to actually fire those rounds. But everything happened so fast.
41:45
Speaker 1: He took this hostage so quickly, he put the knife
41:48
Speaker 1: to her throat. And let's not forget the number one
41:51
Speaker 1: job of the police officers to protect. So we can
41:57
Speaker 1: question it all day, but that's unfortunate week the life
42:01
Speaker 1: of a police officer. Everything happened so fast. Well, I'm
42:04
Speaker 1: looking at a photo. Somebody managed to take a quick shot.
42:08
Speaker 1: He's got the woman from behind. He's holding her with
42:11
Speaker 1: both arms with a really big knife across her throat.
42:16
Speaker 1: Gearmo Perez holding a knife to the throat of Elizabeth Tollison. Uh.
42:21
Speaker 1: Police opened fire and the guy somehow at that point
42:25
Speaker 1: manages to grab a folding chair and use it as
42:28
Speaker 1: a shield to deflect the b bag rounds. All right,
42:33
Speaker 1: that's what we know. So Alan, do you were on
42:36
Speaker 1: the scene. What did you observe? Well, I got one
42:39
Speaker 1: of my favorite restaurants is right across from this in
42:41
Speaker 1: Van Nuys, and I was going there on this this Saturday,
42:45
Speaker 1: and I saw the police helicopter over, and of course
42:47
Speaker 1: I'm a journalist. I pulled out my recorder and start
42:49
Speaker 1: asking people. And it turns out I was talking to
42:53
Speaker 1: a man who was standing just feet away. Let's listen
42:56
Speaker 1: to what he says he saw and then we can
42:58
Speaker 1: talk about it. We have. He was trying to just
43:00
Speaker 1: stabbed Xter, his ext girlfriend, and he did. He stabbed her.
43:05
Speaker 1: He was on the ground. He was just shooting on
43:07
Speaker 1: a stabbing, and there was a stabbing, then a double murder,
43:11
Speaker 1: a double homicide. So two people are dead. Two people
43:14
Speaker 1: are dead, and the perpetrator and affect him who he
43:18
Speaker 1: was grabbing around his neck trying to keep the police
43:21
Speaker 1: from tazing him, and they seen him grabbed her and
43:26
Speaker 1: then they started shooting him and killed her while he
43:29
Speaker 1: was holding onto its police involved shooting. It's a police chilly,
43:35
Speaker 1: The police gut no police. The only ones had done.
43:38
Speaker 1: Nobody had done but the police. And it was the
43:42
Speaker 1: police that was on the far left side is the
43:45
Speaker 1: one who did most of the gun. Whoever he was
43:49
Speaker 1: was right now, I'm here nor I know it's position.
43:53
Speaker 1: Somebody was having an argument and it was already estimated
43:58
Speaker 1: to the knives, who were just anybody her. He tried
44:01
Speaker 1: to stab his girlfriend, and he tried to stab his girlfriend.
44:05
Speaker 1: The presses at him trying to stab his girlfriend. He
44:08
Speaker 1: grabbed another girl and held on to her, and the
44:10
Speaker 1: police shot him and he killed the girl while he
44:13
Speaker 1: was holding him. Me and the guy with the knife
44:15
Speaker 1: killed the girl. Yeah, so the police shot the killer
44:21
Speaker 1: and shot another shot that girl she got shot? What
44:27
Speaker 1: was it esther and her? They said, yeah, it was esther.
44:30
Speaker 1: They killed esther. I don't know. I think she just
44:33
Speaker 1: got stabbed. She got stabbed, and did you see it happened. Yeah,
44:37
Speaker 1: I saw it happen from the beginning to the end.
44:41
Speaker 1: They could have kept on tasting. And because he had
44:44
Speaker 1: her in years on, they seen you grabb her go away.
44:48
Speaker 1: They're supposed to gunn the man down with a victim.
44:53
Speaker 1: She was a victim, and they killed her. He kill you,
44:58
Speaker 1: notly gud her down, Laura Nancy. Let me say this,
45:08
Speaker 1: these people knew these victims, or the victim and the perpetrator.
45:12
Speaker 1: They knew them and they knew them well, and so
45:14
Speaker 1: they were very upset. But in the aftermath, with the
45:18
Speaker 1: release of the video, it's much more understandable that these
45:22
Speaker 1: police officers, this guy was chopping her head off. What
45:26
Speaker 1: are they supposed to do? And to Dr Brian Russell,
45:31
Speaker 1: lawyer and psychologist hit show Fatal VAL's host Brian, I
45:39
Speaker 1: really am on the cop side on this. They go in,
45:44
Speaker 1: they make a split second decision, and these bystanders are
45:49
Speaker 1: acting like the cops are the bad guys in this scenario.
45:53
Speaker 1: They're not the ones holding a knife to a woman's throat.
45:57
Speaker 1: They're trying their best to get the bad guy. I
46:02
Speaker 1: really hate the way the tables are turned against the
46:05
Speaker 1: cops on this. I'm not saying that there are not
46:08
Speaker 1: cops that do bad things, that have done horrible things,
46:14
Speaker 1: but in this case that is not true. That's right,
46:17
Speaker 1: there are, but it's statistically hardly any. And I think
46:21
Speaker 1: that is very relevant here because I'm with you, I
46:25
Speaker 1: don't see what else they could have done at the
46:28
Speaker 1: point when the assailant had this hostage in his grasp
46:35
Speaker 1: and was starting to cut. I don't know what else
46:38
Speaker 1: they could have done but fire on the suspect and
46:41
Speaker 1: risk hitting the victim at that point. What I think
46:44
Speaker 1: is interesting to me is the choice that they made
46:50
Speaker 1: prior to that point to try the non lethal force
46:54
Speaker 1: on the guy, to try the bean bags instead of
46:57
Speaker 1: shooting him at that time before he made contact with
47:01
Speaker 1: this hostage. And again I'm really not faulting the police.
47:05
Speaker 1: What I'm saying is I think that this may be
47:09
Speaker 1: an illustration of something that I have been saying for years,
47:13
Speaker 1: which is that we've had so many instances in which
47:17
Speaker 1: the police have been accused. You heard it here, You're
47:20
Speaker 1: there are murderers. They want to kill these people that
47:24
Speaker 1: I have cautioned for years that we're going to get
47:28
Speaker 1: to a point where we have cops that are actually
47:32
Speaker 1: so afraid to use lethal force even when it is justified,
47:39
Speaker 1: that they're going to be gun shy and they're going
47:43
Speaker 1: to wait long enough to use it, that we're gonna
47:46
Speaker 1: have cops getting killed, and we're gonna have third parties
47:49
Speaker 1: getting killed. And I think this may be an illustration
47:53
Speaker 1: of that, the unintended consequences of always pointing people certain people,
48:00
Speaker 1: always pointing the finger at the cops, and assuming the
48:03
Speaker 1: worst about the cops. This may be an example of
48:07
Speaker 1: that coming home to roost. You know, to go ahead.
48:13
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I couldn't agree more with Dr Brian Russell.
48:17
Speaker 1: I've been seeing that for years. I've said it on
48:19
Speaker 1: my podcast, i said it on Fox News this past weekend.
48:23
Speaker 1: Everyone does not want to be the next cop on CNN,
48:27
Speaker 1: you heard those people. They could have tasted them. I
48:30
Speaker 1: can show you a hundred videos where police have tased
48:33
Speaker 1: people and it had no effect on them. So everyone
48:36
Speaker 1: is so quick to judge the police that police are
48:39
Speaker 1: starting to get gun shy and not reacting as fast
48:43
Speaker 1: as they have. And that's why we've seen thirty three
48:45
Speaker 1: police officers this year killed in the line of duty
48:49
Speaker 1: because they're all afraid to be the next cop in
48:52
Speaker 1: the mainstream media for their split second actions. Nancy, and
48:57
Speaker 1: of course, now to Astu Wilcott, Thomason's family plans to
49:02
Speaker 1: find a wrongful death lawsuit against the l A p D.
49:06
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, sometimes I wonder how they even
49:10
Speaker 1: get out of bed and go in the morning. Ashley,
49:13
Speaker 1: I'm the same, Nancy. And here's the thing. It's it's
49:17
Speaker 1: a there's no winning right, there's no way to figure
49:20
Speaker 1: out what the best action is. And when they follow
49:23
Speaker 1: their protocol and they're protecting and they're in the chaotic
49:27
Speaker 1: situation in which they have found themselves and there is
49:30
Speaker 1: a person who is committing this type of crime, you
49:35
Speaker 1: can't say that they acted inappropriately. And then they face
49:38
Speaker 1: lawsuits and challenges. And I have friends who are very
49:41
Speaker 1: good friends, who I respect greatly in law enforcement, and
49:45
Speaker 1: these are the kinds of things and kinds of lawsuits
49:47
Speaker 1: that do make them question why they're doing what they're
49:51
Speaker 1: doing and how to get out of it. Try to
50:17
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing off goodbye friend,