Latest / Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement / #062-"RollKall" with Chris White

Transcript

#062-"RollKall" with Chris White · Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement

0:01
Speaker 1: This episode of blue grip podcast is sponsored by roll call off duty technology for law enforcement.
0:14
Speaker 2: My 28 year old slept in the backseat of my truck when I was working jobs Cause I was a single dad.
0:20
Speaker 2: I have an amazing relationship with him as a friend.
0:26
Speaker 2: He didn't know me much as a father.
0:28
Speaker 2: He spent all my time working.
0:29
Speaker 2: Gotta go home.
0:33
Speaker 2: People need you there.
0:37
Speaker 3: Blue grip.
0:37
Speaker 3: We're back this week.
0:38
Speaker 3: Co-host Clint McNeer.
0:42
Speaker 1: And Tyler Owen.
0:43
Speaker 1: Tyler Owen, what's up?
0:45
Speaker 1: Not much If I squint like this.
0:48
Speaker 1: Our last guest, kyle Reyes.
0:51
Speaker 1: We have got these like stadium lights that we've had in the back room.
0:56
Speaker 1: His episode looked fabulous.
0:58
Speaker 1: I didn't even know you were over there, a sort of God.
1:02
Speaker 1: Next episode of more glasses.
1:03
Speaker 1: I look like Snoop Dogg inside this podcast room.
1:05
Speaker 1: They are really, really, really bright, but I'm hoping that my complexion looks good after our makeup.
1:13
Speaker 1: I look blue in the dark.
1:16
Speaker 3: I'm almost blue in the dark, white.
1:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so.
1:18
Speaker 1: But anyway, kyle's episode.
1:20
Speaker 1: He brought his cinema talk routine, connor and Frankie, and they made some recommendations and so we took them because, I have to admit, I called bullshit on their lighting, but it turned out great.
1:33
Speaker 1: Look good, Good job mate.
1:34
Speaker 1: Good job mate.
1:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, the old Brit.
1:36
Speaker 1: So anyway, what's going on with you man?
1:39
Speaker 3: Same same Just here, brother.
1:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, working Everything good and 40?
1:42
Speaker 1: .
1:43
Speaker 3: All good man.
1:43
Speaker 3: I came back from Nashville spring break and Broadway is a shit show.
1:47
Speaker 3: I don't recommend it unless you're 18 and drunk.
1:50
Speaker 3: Yeah, Otherwise, Nashville is good.
1:53
Speaker 1: My kids are out on spring break right now and I think that's you know.
1:56
Speaker 1: I wish the parents could have a spring break from their kids, but that maybe when I become president I can, I can do that.
2:01
Speaker 1: I like that.
2:02
Speaker 1: I mean, it's going to be a good week but I'm hopeful.
2:06
Speaker 3: Are you replacing Sabios or Biden Biden?
2:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right Fair enough.
2:13
Speaker 3: How long do they?
2:14
Speaker 3: We've got really cool story.
2:16
Speaker 3: I guess I say that every time, but we keep getting really cool guests with different stories.
2:22
Speaker 2: Um, and we got Chris white on welcome aboard, but hey, thank you all for having me.
2:28
Speaker 1: You got a.
2:28
Speaker 1: It's an East Texas guy.
2:29
Speaker 1: Uh well, I guess that's why you did your law enforcement stint.
2:32
Speaker 1: But we used to, you know, start the podcast off by saying who the hell's curious, where'd you go up?
2:36
Speaker 1: Uh, what was your roots from?
2:38
Speaker 1: And uh, how'd you kind of start your law enforcement career, and so forth.
2:42
Speaker 2: Oh man, I'm, I'm piney woods all the way.
2:44
Speaker 2: So I grew up in Cherokee County, Russ, Texas, deep East Texas.
2:48
Speaker 3: Yeah.
2:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, so uh, you know I love it, I love going home.
2:50
Speaker 2: It's still beautiful.
2:51
Speaker 2: You know my wife and I consider that home, although you know I make fun of her.
2:55
Speaker 2: She's she's born in Oklahoma, so tell her you know she's not a real Texan, but uh, you know.
3:00
Speaker 2: So yeah, ross, you know the home of the state hospital.
3:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've got a railroad too.
3:05
Speaker 1: Yeah that gets overlooked, though, when you go to state hospital.
3:09
Speaker 1: I'm sure clinic can probably testify with Tarot bin right down the road state.
3:12
Speaker 1: Yeah Best university around.
3:14
Speaker 2: Well, you know Palestine has a deep O2 and you know so Sheriff Flores over there he, you know they do a good job of claiming it.
3:21
Speaker 2: But yeah, so I grew up in East Texas.
3:23
Speaker 2: Uh went to the Academy when I was 19 years old.
3:25
Speaker 2: I, you know, my father was in emergency management and fire service.
3:29
Speaker 2: I kind of grew up around you know that, that lifestyle, and thought that that was what I wanted to do the rest of my life.
3:36
Speaker 2: So uh went to the Academy at 19, graduated at 20.
3:40
Speaker 2: I had about a four or five month gap between uh taking the test and being commissioned on my 21st birthday.
3:48
Speaker 2: So, timing worked.
3:49
Speaker 1: Did you have?
3:49
Speaker 1: When I went to the Academy I was 20, I think I was 20.
3:52
Speaker 1: So I kind of went to the same thing.
3:54
Speaker 1: I took the test and I could not buy a gun.
3:58
Speaker 2: Yeah.
3:59
Speaker 1: You couldn't either.
3:59
Speaker 2: Correct.
4:00
Speaker 2: That's crazy, yeah, yeah.
4:02
Speaker 2: So I went to the Academy with a borrowed handgun, as you know, someone you know that was in the Academy carrying it back and forth, so did the range time with a borrowed weapon and and, uh, so I graduated in December of 96.
4:14
Speaker 2: I turned 21 in April, so that was a big day.
4:18
Speaker 2: So Sheriff Campbell, at the time he was, uh, you know, longstanding sheriff of Cherokee County.
4:24
Speaker 2: He was a great friend, second father, so, um, he got me sworn in as a reserve and I was off and running.
4:31
Speaker 1: What was the?
4:32
Speaker 1: Uh, what was the environment back then in Cherokee, and what year was this?
4:34
Speaker 1: That would have been 97.
4:36
Speaker 1: Wow, so obviously that there's times of change since 97 to now.
4:40
Speaker 1: Uh, what was the culture and environment?
4:43
Speaker 1: Cherokee County has somewhat I don't want to say blown up, uh, but it has.
4:47
Speaker 1: You know, the population has grown a little bit in Cherokee County, but not not tremendously.
4:51
Speaker 1: What was the culture like back?
4:52
Speaker 2: then you know, it was uh, as rural as rural could get.
4:56
Speaker 1: Right.
4:57
Speaker 2: Um, you know.
4:58
Speaker 2: So our department uh supplied a badge, as long as you didn't want your unit number or your name on it, Right, Uh, we wore a Wrangler blue.
5:05
Speaker 2: There were the brown Wrangler jeans.
5:07
Speaker 1: Yes.
5:08
Speaker 2: You don't remember those yeah?
5:09
Speaker 1: They're not.
5:10
Speaker 1: So for the listener out there here in Texas, the older population, okay.
5:14
Speaker 1: So every single granddad that I can think of, clint, you can probably test this.
5:18
Speaker 1: Uh, so well, I met, I met your grandfather.
5:21
Speaker 1: I didn't mean you, I heard that that was.
5:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was, that was pretty shitty.
5:25
Speaker 1: But back in the seventies, uh, our grand, our grand, any Texans, our grandfathers would wear they're not even blue jeans.
5:32
Speaker 1: They're like polyester, they're they're, they're stretchy, they're very similar to kind of what the uh, how can I put this?
5:40
Speaker 2: the skinny jean type today right Top of material right yeah.
5:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, but they're very I don't know, uh Bud and Sissy type.
5:48
Speaker 1: Yeah.
5:50
Speaker 3: And you could?
5:50
Speaker 3: You could gain or lose 20 pounds and still fit.
5:54
Speaker 3: Yes, you didn't have to have a bat into the closet and skin into the closet.
5:59
Speaker 1: You just keep your stretchy, stretchy slacks, but that was a lot of the sheriff's offices, I mean.
6:04
Speaker 1: I don't.
6:04
Speaker 1: It was like that in the Metroplex too.
6:07
Speaker 3: Um, not the sheriff's offices, but the old school detectives that's where they were.
6:11
Speaker 3: Or the high hill cowboy boots and the stretchy wrangler slacks, and was that a?
6:16
Speaker 1: was that a Ranger?
6:17
Speaker 1: Texas Ranger probably outfit, I guess would that mean Cause, typically that's.
6:21
Speaker 3: I don't know, I think he was just a culture of the time, kind of like coaching shorts.
6:25
Speaker 3: You know back when your kid the coach, the bike, little bike, coaching shorts that were double button, Yep, Skin tight double button, and I guess type polyester was a thing back then.
6:36
Speaker 1: It's coming back.
6:37
Speaker 3: All right, because I'm getting away.
6:41
Speaker 1: So I had a squirrel on it.
6:42
Speaker 1: Go ahead, sorry.
6:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, no worries.
6:43
Speaker 2: So um you know, if it's coming back you first, I'll you know.
6:48
Speaker 1: I'm game, I will be role.
6:49
Speaker 1: We can be rolling Tyler and some stretchy, some stretchy in the 90s crown Vic, some yoga pants and crown game.
6:56
Speaker 2: I almost wore my in remembrance that I've got the uh the defender shirt with the in remembrance of the crown that a locker.
7:05
Speaker 1: this was headed, yeah.
7:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, I almost took my locker.
7:09
Speaker 1: This is how crowned that later on Um yeah.
7:11
Speaker 2: So we had a Western wear store in Jacksonville.
7:13
Speaker 2: Or you go down and buy your own uniform shirt, that give you the patches and a badge.
7:17
Speaker 2: You'd have the patches you know sewn on Uh, you bought your own leather, bought your own handguns.
7:22
Speaker 2: They would just tell you, you know what caliber, you know the minimum was Uh.
7:26
Speaker 3: and then you went to work so to set this up for Metroplex.
7:30
Speaker 3: I'm retired from Garland in the Metroplex cops that we think we've had it rough back then.
7:36
Speaker 3: We got issued everything boots.
7:40
Speaker 3: We got a dry cleaning allowance.
7:42
Speaker 3: Um, new boots.
7:44
Speaker 3: You could go down and get new boots at any time.
7:47
Speaker 3: Our uniforms are all dry, clean and paid for.
7:49
Speaker 3: So how much you making one?
7:53
Speaker 3: You're having to go buy your own rig, your own shirt, your own everything 97.
7:58
Speaker 2: I'm a 21,000 a year as a patrol deputy.
8:03
Speaker 1: Wow.
8:03
Speaker 3: That is greatness.
8:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can't feed shit.
8:07
Speaker 1: No no you probably qualified for, for, for uh sure did.
8:11
Speaker 2: It took a welfare.
8:12
Speaker 2: I proudly took it.
8:13
Speaker 2: Um was on a wick with my oldest son, so I've got a 28 year old and protecting the country, protecting your community and own food stamps.
8:21
Speaker 2: You know what that cheese was the best in the world.
8:24
Speaker 1: Um can't melt it in the microwave.
8:25
Speaker 1: But yeah, we, uh, we got a cure Diarrhea.
8:29
Speaker 1: It will.
8:30
Speaker 2: Got baby formula Um and uh, wow, that's.
8:33
Speaker 3: That's 21 grand a year and got to buy your own pants, uniform, everything.
8:39
Speaker 2: Oh, but I loved it.
8:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, I loved it.
8:41
Speaker 3: That's cool.
8:41
Speaker 2: Well, you only know what you know, right, right, you know the Cherokee County's uh, 60 miles long, 36 miles wide.
8:48
Speaker 2: Uh, at the time it had a population of a little less than 50,000 people.
8:51
Speaker 2: So my first year was on midnight, we did um, uh, we partnered up in the same car two nights a week.
8:58
Speaker 2: Um, I guess it was three.
9:00
Speaker 2: It was a Thursday, friday and Saturday nights.
9:02
Speaker 2: Now you'd have a partner on midnight's and the other two nights of your week you had it all by yourself, the entire county alone, tire County, 60 miles long, 36 miles wide.
9:13
Speaker 1: Lots of cows, lots of trees, getting Western baby, and the time where, uh, I know you, you know I've talked about this off camera is that I worked in Jefferson for a little bit, and so sometimes the deputies would go home at two o'clock am and so the PD we would have to respond while they woke the deputy up.
9:30
Speaker 1: Did that ever happen in Turkey?
9:32
Speaker 2: Uh, it was actually the opposite.
9:34
Speaker 2: So you know we were 24 hours.
9:35
Speaker 2: Uh, jacksonville, texas, was a 24 hour department.
9:38
Speaker 2: Um, you know Rusk is a great department now.
9:42
Speaker 2: Back then it was a lot smaller.
9:43
Speaker 2: So on the south end of the county they'd have to wake a deputy or a local police officer up to come back you up.
9:49
Speaker 2: On the North end, jacksonville would send an officer out of the city to come back you up until they could get somebody there.
9:55
Speaker 1: So kind of paint that picture.
9:56
Speaker 1: So let's just say that you're on the North end of the county, it's going to be a hot disturbance call and went.
10:00
Speaker 1: And let me back up from here.
10:02
Speaker 1: Garland, a hot disturbance call would be active fighting in progress.
10:07
Speaker 1: That's a.
10:08
Speaker 1: That's a hot call.
10:09
Speaker 1: A Cherokee County hot call is shots fired or shooting at each other, not so much you know the verbal altercation or verbal disturbance.
10:18
Speaker 1: Y'all would probably get two units immediately, right?
10:20
Speaker 1: I mean just because it two or three, yeah, that would one, right?
10:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, you were.
10:26
Speaker 2: You were it and so you know you.
10:28
Speaker 2: There were times depending on, like, if you were on the south end of the county answering a call, they in Jacksonville police department, maybe they responded, you know, because they were closer than they'd go to that scene and hold it for you.
10:39
Speaker 2: You might drive 120 miles an hour for 30 minutes trying to get there.
10:43
Speaker 2: You know it was one end of the county to the other, absolutely.
10:45
Speaker 2: So you know, highway patrol I don't.
10:48
Speaker 2: I don't.
10:49
Speaker 2: Most of your listeners, I'm sure.
10:50
Speaker 2: Law enforcement they don't.
10:51
Speaker 2: They don't work 24 hours, you know, normally, especially not in the rural areas.
10:55
Speaker 2: So you know, you don't have game wardens or highway patrol out there helping either.
10:59
Speaker 1: So you know, just kind of did what you could, and and everybody made sure you got home, and that's why it's so important working in a rural area, the camaraderie with the city, the county, the state droopers I'm sure you all well probably went to dinner with each other at night the game wardens, and and it's just a unique perspective and a different culture working in a rural area like that.
11:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that was that's what drew me to it.
11:23
Speaker 2: You know my dad, at one time when I was growing up he held 11 different titles in our county, like at the same time.
11:30
Speaker 2: Good Lord, you know it's just whatever needed to be done, he would do it.
11:33
Speaker 2: Whether it's 911 coordinator, floodplain coordinator, emergency management, you know he would just do it.
11:38
Speaker 2: And so I kind of grew up around that and loved it.
11:41
Speaker 2: The back then the sheriff's department was really hard to get on.
11:45
Speaker 2: So you might only have one opening every few years.
11:47
Speaker 2: So the first job I actually got full time sworn was with Jacksonville and I was in my cell, just ended my second phase of FTO, when I came home one night and the sheriff had left a message on the whole voice you know the answering machine, you know and he said I've got a, I've got a spot, but you know let's talk tomorrow.
12:06
Speaker 2: So I knew immediately that was.
12:08
Speaker 2: That was where I wanted to be.
12:09
Speaker 2: It's where my heart was.
12:10
Speaker 2: You know the boots, the hat, you know the rural department.
12:14
Speaker 2: That was.
12:15
Speaker 2: That was me all the way.
12:16
Speaker 2: That's awesome.
12:18
Speaker 1: That's awesome.
12:18
Speaker 1: How long does you do that at Cherokee?
12:22
Speaker 2: So I retired in April, may of 10, uh, with probably just under 14 years.
12:27
Speaker 2: So I reserved, I guess about six months before I was full time, I was full time just under 14.
12:32
Speaker 2: And then I did another five or six as a reserve after uh, after 2010.
12:38
Speaker 1: Well, and and something else that you've kind of sparked up, uh, here, after what, I guess since you retired was a company called roll call oh yeah, so a roll call at those we've had.
12:49
Speaker 2: we've had several, so you know I've like most cops you sit around you try to figure out how to get some mailbox money right.
12:55
Speaker 1: Yeah.
12:55
Speaker 2: Uh, so my old partners and I, we used to, um, you know, we're like, well, maybe we start a crime scene cleanup company.
13:02
Speaker 2: We're already in it, right.
13:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, uh, maybe we find a way to help these families deal with it.
13:07
Speaker 2: Because, you know, obviously kind of grow, you know, uh, and I'm not going to say immune to it, but it's like, well, maybe maybe we start that.
13:14
Speaker 2: And they're like, well, there's probably a conflict of interest there.
13:16
Speaker 2: You know, you're helping on a scene, but in these small counties, right, it's really difficult to find someone to help you.
13:23
Speaker 2: Uh, you know, kind of avoid the, that aftermath, uh, for the family members.
13:28
Speaker 2: So we kind of kicked that around and we always talked about, uh, starting a business and, um, strangely enough, uh, one of my old partners, uh, who's my FTO first phase in Jacksonville, he went to work in Mesquite and it was talking one night, I don't know, probably 2002, 2003, maybe somewhere around in there.
13:48
Speaker 2: They had all these off-duty jobs that, uh, you know, they would put in this three ring binder.
13:53
Speaker 2: Someone would call in and put in a binder and you could go in there, flip through, find the job you wanted, rip it out and go work.
13:59
Speaker 2: I was like, well, you know, do you all fill all the jobs that you have?
14:02
Speaker 2: And he's like, oh, no man, there's, there's lots of jobs that just never go filled because nobody wants them.
14:07
Speaker 2: And then, uh, cherokee County, that part of East Texas, it's all the space between Tyler and Lufkin for anybody looking at a map, it um, you know I was working off duty jobs for 12, 15 bucks an hour.
14:17
Speaker 2: Uh, I was helping buddy of mine had a contract.
14:20
Speaker 2: Uh, you know Moen cemeteries, right, you know we'd eaten toon stones.
14:24
Speaker 2: So uh, I was like, hey, I'd come to Mesquite and work some of these jobs.
14:28
Speaker 2: You know that nobody else wants.
14:29
Speaker 2: If they're 20, 25 bucks an hour, I'll drive a couple of hours and go do that.
14:33
Speaker 2: And he's like, no man, they're only in the squad room.
14:35
Speaker 2: And so that was back in like the Yahoo messenger, uh, the police, one dot com back in the forums.
14:42
Speaker 2: You know where everybody was in there I said well, I was thinking around 02 to 03, maybe.
14:49
Speaker 2: Okay, um, I was like man, I wish somebody would put it like on police one dot com where you could see those and that you know, for the jobs the local cops don't want, I'd be happy to take their leftovers and uh.
15:01
Speaker 2: So I guess the original idea kind of stuck there and, you know, at the sheriff's department.
15:06
Speaker 2: So I was on patrol for a few years and then I became an investigator as a crimes against children investigator for six years and then I uh into lieutenant and then ultimately retired as a captain and CID uh captain in my department and it really just meant I got the first cup of coffee in the morning.
15:22
Speaker 2: We're really small.
15:23
Speaker 2: Um, we had seven investigators at the time, so you just kind of did everything and, um, you know I would take those requests that would come into the department Somebody looking for security on a pipeline or, you know, at a traffic control on a road and bridge construction so I would do that.
15:41
Speaker 2: I was somewhat organized and then, around 05 or 06, I had a pipeline company that was helping coordinate and schedule cops for and they said well, you know, we want to start writing you one check.
15:53
Speaker 2: This project's going to go on for a year and obviously in Texas you can't do that.
15:57
Speaker 2: So um got licensed in uh 06, early 07 and we were off and running.
16:03
Speaker 2: So, you know, roll call was ultimately born in 2012, 2013, but I started my first service company in 2006.
16:11
Speaker 3: Had you already left law enforcement, or were you kind of rolling with that first iteration of the company and then, when it got busy, you you ex did law enforcement?
16:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, uh, great question.
16:22
Speaker 2: And uh, and I tend to ramble, so whenever it's time to cut me off, just just throw me an elbow or something.
16:28
Speaker 2: Um, so I was still a cop, I was still a full-time cop and had every intention of doing that until I retired.
16:35
Speaker 2: I've I, when I mean I loved it, I loved it, I, um, I found my way into it as a way to maybe not spend so much time working all these jobs.
16:44
Speaker 2: So I mentioned the story earlier.
16:47
Speaker 2: I kind of started working a bunch of off duty in 2000 to try to pay off some bills.
16:52
Speaker 2: You know, I just didn't want to be in debt and I worked the same off duty job every weekend for eight years at a private subdivision on Lake Palestine, and you know what I mean when I say every weekend.
17:04
Speaker 2: The weekends I would take off one or two a year.
17:06
Speaker 2: My dad, who's a cop in East Texas, he's full-time cop over there he would go work my shifts and clock me in and out because I needed the money, right.
17:14
Speaker 2: So he would, he would work my shifts for free and I worked this off duty job every weekend.
17:20
Speaker 2: So, um, when this opportunity came along in 06, I'd been working that that extra gig for over six years at that time and I thought maybe this was a way to make a little mailbox money and not have to to work so hard, spend a little more time at home and, you know, never intended on it turn it into a business.
17:39
Speaker 1: We had talked about this prior to coming in here and he said something just absolutely remarkable to me and I never thought of it and the way you put it was that you had said, when you first got your a I believe it was a 1099, the first year that you had done an off duty job, and for the and for the listeners that's that's processing this and Dallas, there's so many off duty jobs out there in a rural area there's really not.
18:01
Speaker 1: I mean especially probably back then there.
18:04
Speaker 1: Well, there might be a Cherokee County, but like deep where I'm at, there's not Um.
18:10
Speaker 1: But when you got this 1099 and you realized how much because you were getting paid $21,000 a year you were going to owe roughly the first year around, how much like 10, like 10 grand.
18:21
Speaker 1: Okay, so now you're going to predicament, to where you've got to work more off to the job which I want people to process.
18:30
Speaker 1: That you're already away from your family to begin with as a full time cop more than what you want to be and need to be.
18:35
Speaker 1: Then, on top of that, now you're now working off duties.
18:38
Speaker 1: Now you have to work more off duties to pay for the off duty.
18:42
Speaker 1: I mean it doesn't, it doesn't, it doesn't make any sense.
18:45
Speaker 1: I mean what, what?
18:47
Speaker 1: What profession Do we have to or should, should we have to work off duty jobs is to pay for our family?
18:54
Speaker 1: Right, I'm just to provide for them.
18:56
Speaker 1: Anyway, when you said that earlier, I was just like, wow, you've got to work more off duty to pay for your off duty taxes.
19:01
Speaker 1: I mean, that's just doesn't make any.
19:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it.
19:04
Speaker 2: It's both fascinating and sad at the same time.
19:07
Speaker 2: Yes you know you think about.
19:09
Speaker 2: You know you think about any other highly regulated profession, like if your brother-in-law was, you know, maybe, maybe did inspections for a big city, right, and you know your neighbor said I've got this big construction project and I got to get it across the line.
19:25
Speaker 2: You know, I can, you know your brother-in-law come over on his day off and I'll pay him cash if he signs off on my inspection.
19:31
Speaker 2: Well, that wouldn't happen, right?
19:33
Speaker 2: You know there's rules and procedures and policy and the way that you go through that permitting process.
19:39
Speaker 2: But for cops you moonlight.
19:41
Speaker 2: You know it's depending on where you're at in the country.
19:44
Speaker 2: They have different restrictions, right, whether it's W2 1099 in your jurisdiction or not.
19:48
Speaker 2: But for those that don't know, in Texas you can work anywhere in the state as long as you're a full-time licensed peace officer, and you know it's truly a gift that our legislators have given our cops.
20:01
Speaker 2: But it comes with the Self-restraint and the self-control to be able to to report those earnings in a way that you know that's legal and that doesn't get you in trouble.
20:11
Speaker 2: I wasn't aware of it.
20:13
Speaker 2: So that first year and I just was pocketing every dollar, yeah, and you know again, that was probably in 2000.
20:19
Speaker 2: Like you know, probably you know around 10,000 in taxes and it should have been a million, right, I didn't have 10 grand sitting in my pocket.
20:26
Speaker 2: So, and now you got to double down and go do it, or you can choose to kind of shut your eyes and hope nobody finds out.
20:34
Speaker 1: If you, you may be able to answer this.
20:36
Speaker 1: I got asked this about six months ago and I couldn't for Somebody that that is a reserve or part-time.
20:42
Speaker 1: Is there a limit of how many hours that a full-time cop has to put in in order to be eligible To be able to work a part-time or off-duty job in?
20:53
Speaker 2: Texas.
20:54
Speaker 2: So Originally it was a minimum of 32 hours and eligible for the department's benefit program.
21:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what Constituted a full-time office and that's in the state, it's in the statute right.
21:07
Speaker 2: I'm not sure that that's still in the Texas private security.
21:10
Speaker 2: I think it was section 1302 or anybody wants to look it up, but you know that was what it was originally.
21:17
Speaker 2: But then there are no Like for reserve officers, obviously they can't, they're not exempt from the Texas private security bureau Regulations for being able to work security.
21:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you find I'm working a lot of road and bridge traffic control.
21:30
Speaker 2: That's not a regulated security service, Right, I just rub it home.
21:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, it's a.
21:37
Speaker 2: You know that's a touchy one, right, Because you know then in East Texas won't name the department.
21:41
Speaker 2: But we had a reserve farm, yeah, where you had a small department that you know the chief I'd had a connection with the road and bridge company might have 25 or 30 reserves with the department.
21:52
Speaker 2: You know that represents maybe a population of 500 or a thousand people.
21:57
Speaker 2: But all those reserves were out, working road and bridge traffic jobs.
22:00
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's.
22:02
Speaker 2: It's created some issues, you're sure, for sure, yeah so you know, but that's that's kind of where we're at.
22:07
Speaker 2: So you know I did it on the side.
22:10
Speaker 2: Back then Cherokee County didn't have overtime, you know.
22:13
Speaker 2: The cops didn't.
22:14
Speaker 2: They weren't paid overtime for their work.
22:17
Speaker 1: I'm sure you did a lot of overtime used to get compensated for it, because the county probably refused.
22:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we didn't get paid overtime.
22:22
Speaker 2: There you go, so we got comp time.
22:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know you and you guys know a small department.
22:27
Speaker 2: You know you might be out 24 36 hours straight.
22:30
Speaker 2: It's really easy to build up a lot of time.
22:32
Speaker 2: Yeah and so you know it started the company and the end of 06, 07 and 08 I took off probably anywhere from 10 to 20 weeks, those years where the treasurer's office would come in and say you need to go look at the criminal docket, see when your cases are coming up, and then you need to take time off, get it off the books so I might go home.
22:52
Speaker 2: For you know, a week, three weeks at a time, I'd come back and testify or if they had a major case I'd call out and go work it and get more comp time.
23:00
Speaker 3: So and that gave you opportunity to, I guess, to grow the company right.
23:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I'm, you know, like, like most, I can't just sit around the house.
23:08
Speaker 2: I've got to do something.
23:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know that first oil and gas company I started working with and 06 07, one of those guys left, went to work for another oil and gas pipeline company.
23:18
Speaker 2: He told him hey, I know a cop in East Texas that can help.
23:20
Speaker 2: And so by the time I looked up in 2010, we were all over the Gulf South.
23:27
Speaker 2: So we were licensed and working from Florida, georgia, mississippi, louisiana.
23:33
Speaker 2: So, and Sheriff Campbell, you know still, you know what I was doing.
23:38
Speaker 2: Right, I come in, Work my jobs.
23:41
Speaker 2: You know, assigned cases take my time off.
23:44
Speaker 2: So at the I guess at the end of 08 going into 09, everybody got super excited because, you know, county Commissioners voted in overtime, eight overtime, and you could only carry 24 hours of comp time on the books.
23:59
Speaker 2: And so I looked at it in 09.
24:02
Speaker 2: I was like, oh shoot, you know, now I've had this business for several years.
24:05
Speaker 2: What am I gonna do?
24:06
Speaker 2: So am I gonna kind of stand up and go get a job, or am I gonna sit down and hold my comp time in case I get a job?
24:14
Speaker 3: Did you realize at that point this company is solid.
24:17
Speaker 3: If I need to pop smoke and get out of here, was it on a big enough foundation?
24:23
Speaker 3: You realize?
24:23
Speaker 3: Damn, I've screwed around and built something that.
24:27
Speaker 2: I Dreamed about it.
24:28
Speaker 2: You know, I I sat there with a.
24:30
Speaker 2: I loved my department and I loved my community, but I sat with a resignation letter in the top drawer of my desk and all I had to do was date it and sign it.
24:38
Speaker 2: I by the Probably around 07 or 08.
24:42
Speaker 2: I've got a follow-on story for that, but I thought yeah, this is gonna be something.
24:49
Speaker 2: One of my Absolute favorite guys on the planet was my old chief deputy, was my sergeant when I was on patrol and then he was my lieutenant and I was a sergeant and he was my when I became captain.
24:59
Speaker 2: He's my chief deputy and I'm gonna tell a story on myself, but the best career ending ever.
25:05
Speaker 2: He came in as chief deputy there towards the end, about a year and a half before I finally retired.
25:10
Speaker 2: He said, chris, are you leaving?
25:12
Speaker 2: And I said yes, sir, you know I'm, you know I'm gonna leave.
25:16
Speaker 2: And he said are you leaving tomorrow?
25:19
Speaker 2: I'm like no.
25:21
Speaker 2: He said quit fucking acting like it.
25:23
Speaker 2: He said as long as you're here and you have that seat, I need you to do this job.
25:30
Speaker 2: And I got chills, brother.
25:33
Speaker 2: We went to work.
25:33
Speaker 2: You know he kicked me in the ass when I needed it.
25:36
Speaker 2: That last 18 months we've wrecked at it.
25:40
Speaker 2: It was awesome and to the point where I was Working a job and I was setting up a job in Arkansas and the my lieutenant at the time called and today we got called out on on a deal.
25:55
Speaker 2: Investigators are gonna look for some evidence that they thought they knew what part of the landfill in Jacksonville, texas.
26:02
Speaker 2: It got dumped in, but my investigators were out digging through a landfill and I was at a hotel bar in Little Rock getting ready to set up a job.
26:12
Speaker 2: I was on my time off, right, but I I knew that night that you know, I couldn't have my cake and eat it too, and so I drove back to East Texas the next morning and Shut my sheriff's office door and cried like a baby and retired.
26:26
Speaker 2: So that was, that was how I knew.
26:29
Speaker 2: That was when I knew it was time to go.
26:31
Speaker 2: Yeah it was you know a.
26:35
Speaker 1: Lot of guys don't have that self-fortitude and, I guess, self-awareness to do that.
26:39
Speaker 1: We were just talking about this the other day.
26:42
Speaker 1: There's a book written by Sam Ra, actually, and the book goes on to talk about knowing when to layer sword down, knowing when that it's time to give it up and it's time to step aside and allow Somebody else to step in.
26:58
Speaker 1: And it sounds like you know, obviously that was your time, but man hats off to you for doing it.
27:02
Speaker 1: You know.
27:02
Speaker 1: No, for recognizing it, you know.
27:05
Speaker 2: You know I mean this law enforcement draws two types of people right those that I'll say it, those that are bullies and those that were bullied perhaps.
27:15
Speaker 2: Right, you know you, thankfully, it's a profession that's full of mostly people that want to defend and protect others, and when you hear that calling, when you start doing the job, you can lose some of that.
27:28
Speaker 2: You start you know we're talking about taxes and things like that earlier, where you start to justify it, it's like and I'm out here giving it everything I got, I'm rolling around in the ditch for people that don't even care.
27:37
Speaker 2: And and then you're like well, you know, maybe I don't need to report those earnings, why shouldn't I?
27:42
Speaker 2: Because I don't get paid enough over here.
27:43
Speaker 2: And mentally you kind of start self-justifying that and for me that was, that was a slippery slope.
27:49
Speaker 2: Or I could.
27:50
Speaker 2: I could either choose to Continue down a path that I knew benefited me personally, or I could kind of jump and take a risk, but but then not look over my shoulder and worry about whether people were.
28:05
Speaker 3: Disappointed in what.
28:06
Speaker 2: I was doing, yeah, I.
28:10
Speaker 3: Like the fact.
28:11
Speaker 3: You know, years ago law enforcement was a 30 year, 35, 40 year career For numerous reasons law enforcement.
28:20
Speaker 3: Now people are barely limping across the 20 year mark to get to retirement.
28:25
Speaker 3: And I get a ton of phone calls.
28:27
Speaker 3: I retired pretty young to come to work for TMP.
28:29
Speaker 3: I was 41, about to be 40, or I was 42 at 23 years.
28:34
Speaker 3: In I started 19 but left young, just turned 42, I guess and I get a lot of people calling us questions and and I was one of those guys too it's like what do I do?
28:48
Speaker 3: It's the only thing I know it is arrest people.
28:49
Speaker 3: I was.
28:50
Speaker 3: I was like, yeah, I don't know how to do anything at all Other than put bad guys in jail and with law enforcement the way it is and more people looking to pop smoke and get out at 20 rather than do 40 or 38.
29:02
Speaker 3: I Love people getting to hear a story that because your company.
29:07
Speaker 3: Now, how many folks do you contact across the United?
29:11
Speaker 3: How many officers across the United States do you contact?
29:14
Speaker 2: So roll call has 60,000 cops on the platform.
29:18
Speaker 3: Cross the entire United States Hawaii.
29:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, from Hawaii to Massachusetts, down to Miami, right.
29:25
Speaker 3: So no college degree.
29:28
Speaker 2: No, I'm a juco drop out.
29:31
Speaker 3: So, guys, girls, you got a deep East Texas rural deputy who has an amazing headquarters.
29:39
Speaker 3: I've been in his headquarters up there.
29:40
Speaker 3: You won't find a more beautiful facility.
29:44
Speaker 3: Um, professional staff, people taking care of it's a success.
29:49
Speaker 3: It's a hell of a success story for people that are thinking dude, I got 19 years and I've got to find something to do.
29:55
Speaker 3: And I don't know what the hell to do, except, you know, put people in jail for DWI, figured out, cause it's in there.
30:02
Speaker 3: Everybody's got it in there somewhere.
30:03
Speaker 3: I have I don't have three minutes of college.
30:07
Speaker 3: Uh, I'm not successful.
30:09
Speaker 3: I'm still trying to figure out what the hell I'm going to do when I grow up.
30:11
Speaker 3: But, um, you can find a way out.
30:16
Speaker 2: Uh, you said some really nice things and I I appreciate that.
30:19
Speaker 2: Um, man, I deflect all of that Absolutely.
30:23
Speaker 2: Um, you know the like I I do truly believe cops uh are trained from the academy to be entrepreneurs.
30:32
Speaker 2: I think every cop you know, listening to every cop that's on our platform, I think every one of them um has the ability through that they learn, through this job, to be successful business owners.
30:45
Speaker 2: The you know there are some struggles and hurdles, right, we can kind of get into those, but um, you know it's, it's trading today's for tomorrow's.
30:54
Speaker 2: The only thing I would tell them to avoid is sales.
30:57
Speaker 2: I don't know that I've met a cop that's good at sales.
31:00
Speaker 2: Yet After uh doing that job, you know, you know it's you get used to telling people what to do, right, and then you know, then you start asking and uh, so sales is usually a pretty hard transition, uh, but you make a great point.
31:13
Speaker 3: Cops make good entrepreneurs because you'd mentioned it off camera.
31:17
Speaker 3: Just about everything we show up to is the.
31:21
Speaker 3: It's a hot mess, it's on fire.
31:23
Speaker 3: Nobody's happy.
31:24
Speaker 3: We have to fix it pretty quick.
31:26
Speaker 3: Everything you show up to requires very quick problem solving, and so it creates decisive people making smart decisions quickly, gathering facts.
31:36
Speaker 3: Um, I've never thought of it.
31:39
Speaker 3: You said that off camera.
31:39
Speaker 3: I was like, damn, that's pretty.
31:41
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've never thought about that.
31:43
Speaker 3: It's the truth.
31:44
Speaker 3: See it all the time you know in generally, cops are loaded with common sense.
31:49
Speaker 3: You don't have to have a master's degree to be a good cop.
31:52
Speaker 3: Most cops you find have two pocket fulls of common sense, which will get you a long way down the road.
31:58
Speaker 2: We've worked with um, man, I, I'm like a cop groupie going into some of these departments I won't list them by name, but, uh, some of the largest departments in the country.
32:08
Speaker 2: Then I get to work with and I'm in there taking selfies, you know, in front of their, you know logo out in the lobby, just because it's so freaking cool.
32:15
Speaker 2: That's cool, particularly coming from where I'm at.
32:17
Speaker 2: But, um, you know the.
32:20
Speaker 2: What you find is that that's universal.
32:24
Speaker 2: You know those, that ability, what they learn how to do.
32:27
Speaker 2: Cops across the country are developing those skills and that is what being in business does.
32:34
Speaker 3: So you know, the.
32:35
Speaker 2: It's self-control that generally kind of gets in all of our way.
32:39
Speaker 2: It's why 99% of businesses fail.
32:41
Speaker 2: Um, it's because you start making a little bit of money and you think that life's going to be like that forever, and so you're not planning for it.
32:47
Speaker 2: Um, you're not thinking ahead.
32:49
Speaker 2: And it's that impulse control.
32:51
Speaker 2: If you can, if you can get ahold of that, you can do anything Absolutely.
32:56
Speaker 1: Right now with your company?
32:57
Speaker 1: Are you seeing with these radical judges and and and you know, problems with this fraternity is not just in Texas but across the nation.
33:05
Speaker 1: Are you seeing a rise, uh, in contracts, essentially in areas that you typically didn't see that before with with security?
33:14
Speaker 1: You know, I did honestly no, you know, it's the same it's the same.
33:20
Speaker 2: Look I.
33:20
Speaker 2: We did a national study a few years ago.
33:22
Speaker 2: Only 5% of the businesses that we polled even knew that you could pay an officer to come work a secondary employment or an extra job at their business.
33:33
Speaker 2: Most people they go to, like a Taylor Swift concert, american Airlines center in Dallas they see cops directing traffic or in the hallway.
33:40
Speaker 2: They think those cops are on duty.
33:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, they don't know that.
33:43
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter if you're in DC or Miami or in Dallas.
33:47
Speaker 2: Most of the time the recipient of service, the venue or the event organizer, they're reimbursing the city directly or they're paying the officers directly for that service and they don't know it.
33:57
Speaker 2: They just see a cop in uniform and they don't know that they're off duty.
34:01
Speaker 2: And so we talk about it all the time.
34:03
Speaker 2: You know these cops are in our uniforms, they're wearing our guns or badges, they're in our cars, but they're being paid directly by a recipient of service.
34:11
Speaker 2: And so what is the obligation that the community has?
34:15
Speaker 2: To have insight and knowledge about where they're working and you know under what kind of circumstances, how many hours they're spending.
34:25
Speaker 2: So we don't see a drop off or an increase, right, because I think still very few people know that cops do that, that it's such a big part of their moonlighting, but they're doing it all over man.
34:39
Speaker 2: Some of these departments, they we go into work and they think, yeah, we're doing around 5,000 hours in a department.
34:44
Speaker 2: You get in there and they're doing like maybe 5,000 hours a month.
34:48
Speaker 2: They might be doing 25, 30,000 hours a month.
34:50
Speaker 2: They just don't know.
34:52
Speaker 2: So officer fatigue is obviously a major issue that I think we're not talking about enough.
34:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know again.
35:02
Speaker 2: You know my granddad was a reserve cop and a little bit of reserve cop in Luling Texas way back in the day.
35:07
Speaker 2: You know my dad's a cop in East Texas.
35:10
Speaker 2: I'm not trying to hurt anything, but you know we shouldn't have cops working 24, 36 hours straight and then getting in a car and going to a hot scene.
35:19
Speaker 1: Well, and you bring up a good point and kind of segue into this.
35:21
Speaker 1: Um, you know, every single person that I know with this organization that I'm fixing to mention has just been they're, they're truly dedicated to the mission of law enforcement.
35:29
Speaker 1: The brotherhood, the sisterhood, um, and then not only do you have this company with you know roll call, and then obviously your dedication with previous law enforcement experience.
35:38
Speaker 1: Uh, but you're right, you know these cops that are exhausted.
35:42
Speaker 1: You know you yourself went through physical fatigue.
35:45
Speaker 1: We talked so much about physical uh fatigue and physical fitness and stuff like that.
35:50
Speaker 1: But it's also the mental aspect of it, the mental anguish in the mental respite.
35:54
Speaker 1: You know uh, stress levels of having to pay that tax or having to pay or to work all these opportunity jobs.
36:00
Speaker 1: Is that one of the reasons why?
36:02
Speaker 1: Uh, for those that don't know the listener out there that you also serve as a, as a board of director, with comp line, Uh, is that one of the major reasons why you wanted to get involved with that organization?
36:13
Speaker 2: Man, uh, this will be part of the interview where I cry.
36:16
Speaker 2: I'm sure, um, you know I I'm honored to serve on the board, but I told Stephanie the founder.
36:23
Speaker 2: Stephanie Samuels said you're going to get everything.
36:25
Speaker 2: I've got and nobody needs to know my name.
36:27
Speaker 2: You know, because I wound up becoming a fan from afar.
36:32
Speaker 2: I was seeing what they were doing.
36:33
Speaker 2: Uh, I was following it online and you know it was wishing that I had had that type of resource.
36:39
Speaker 2: When I was a cop Um, you know, one of the I had I had a pretty traumatic incident not physical, my whole mind was emotional there towards the very end of my career.
36:49
Speaker 2: I'm sure we all have that one where you can hear it, see it and smell it.
36:53
Speaker 2: Um, and you know there's.
36:54
Speaker 2: I've carried that for a long time, and so I was a huge fan of sitting there in my office at the house one day and, uh, so I was like I'm just going to reach out.
37:04
Speaker 2: So I typed an email, like on the contact us page, and I said, hey, it's Chris.
37:08
Speaker 2: You know it's kind of what I do.
37:10
Speaker 2: If I could never be of any help, you know I'd love to.
37:13
Speaker 2: You know, talk to somebody.
37:14
Speaker 2: And Stephanie, like, immediately replied there's just maybe 10 o'clock on the East coast and she was like I'm here, I don't think she sleeps, I don't think so either.
37:25
Speaker 2: Um, so she said, you know I'm here, can you talk now?
37:29
Speaker 2: I'm like heck, yeah, let's, let's talk.
37:31
Speaker 2: So, uh, we wanted to talk in for like an hour hour and a half that first night and you know, just absolutely love the mission.
37:38
Speaker 2: And we have another nonprofit um that, uh, my son and I started with a couple of friends, it's called top cop.
37:45
Speaker 2: In East Texas we used to have a uh, you know, like an area department uh shooting competition every year.
37:52
Speaker 2: The former DA and Anderson County uh used to put it on and it was just a big event.
37:57
Speaker 2: Every every year you come in kind of this barbecue pit and you'd shoot and you know, you, it's kind of the rider cup.
38:03
Speaker 2: If you won the trophy you had to bring it back the next year and defend it.
38:05
Speaker 2: And so we wanted to do something like that uh for cops and we work with thousands of cops in the Houston area, and so we started putting this event on down there two years ago and we used uh cop line as the main uh donation, uh kind of uh we're raising funds for for the church, and got to know her more and more through that and um, and they, they had a seat.
38:28
Speaker 2: Uh, I told her I didn't want it, certainly didn't need it.
38:32
Speaker 2: Um, but I love telling cop lines mission I.
38:35
Speaker 2: I put it very simply to me cop line gets cops out of their driveway and into their living rooms.
38:42
Speaker 2: You know I didn't serve in the military, so I don't know what that's like and have mad respect for being embedded in these horrible situations for months on end.
38:50
Speaker 2: But I can tell you my worst day was in between my house and my church.
38:55
Speaker 2: So every Sunday when I dressed my kids up and got out of my house to go to church, I drove right by.
39:02
Speaker 2: My worst day in law enforcement and I think that's the difference for first responders is that we live and work in the communities that we serve in and so I'm not troubled by months of horrible memories being attacked.
39:18
Speaker 2: And you know, 10,000 miles away but you also drive by house Like, yeah, that guy was head off there and it's got to try to get my gun and rolled around the ditch here and that's where that found that dead kid over there, and you live in that and those memories you can't escape in these communities.
39:34
Speaker 2: So I think cop line fixes that I don't know that fixes.
39:37
Speaker 2: It's probably not the right, it helps.
39:40
Speaker 3: Well, the cool thing about cop line that I learned all the field reps go through the cop line training to be to take phone calls and as cops were fixers and so we want to fix everything, all that work.
39:54
Speaker 3: And then we go home and the wife and kids come to you want to fix it.
39:57
Speaker 3: Now you do this and it'll fix that and you go over there and that's going to fix that and we don't ever know how to fix ourself.
40:07
Speaker 3: And one of the weird things about that week long training with cop line is I've taken a bunch of crisis calls as a field rep.
40:13
Speaker 3: More than half of our legal calls are not legal calls.
40:16
Speaker 3: People are in a crisis, yeah, or their legal issue began out of a crisis because some internal shit that they didn't fix.
40:26
Speaker 3: But the weird thing about to your point is during that training best, one of the best training I've ever been to is they said when these people call you, quit trying to fix their shit on the phone, listen to them.
40:39
Speaker 3: They're calling you, and Stephanie used this little animated cartoon of a guy sitting down in a hole in the dark and it said in the first scene was a cop and he's yelling down in the hole trying to fix the person's problems.
40:54
Speaker 3: You do this and this is your problem and you need to fix that.
40:57
Speaker 3: Let's know what the person wanted, and so the animation of what people are really looking for is for you to drop a rope ladder, crawl down in there, sit down next to him in the dark and shut your mouth.
41:07
Speaker 3: And sometimes you don't need to talk, just somebody.
41:10
Speaker 3: Just needs somebody there.
41:11
Speaker 3: I was like, wow, she goes.
41:12
Speaker 3: Yeah, don't fix their crap on the phone.
41:15
Speaker 3: Listen, just listen, man.
41:16
Speaker 3: And that's not what we're built to do.
41:19
Speaker 3: We're supposed to show up and fix it and everybody be quiet.
41:23
Speaker 3: And this is what you're going to do and you're going to leave for the night and you're going to just sit there and listen to the conversation, you're going to jail and um, and it's really impactful what they're doing.
41:34
Speaker 3: For our listeners that aren't familiar with cop line, it is a cop line to service.
41:40
Speaker 3: People can call.
41:41
Speaker 3: It is answered only by retired law enforcement, not active and not civilian retired law enforcement, so it's people who've walked in your shoes.
41:50
Speaker 3: Um, completely confidential, completely confidential.
41:54
Speaker 3: Um, it's not recorded.
41:56
Speaker 3: It's confidential.
41:57
Speaker 3: There is nothing.
41:59
Speaker 3: It's not traceable.
42:00
Speaker 3: So you can call and tell somebody that you're headed to Russia to fight the Russians.
42:05
Speaker 3: You can tell whatever you need to call and share.
42:08
Speaker 3: You can get off your, off your chest.
42:09
Speaker 3: But it's a great organization.
42:11
Speaker 3: By nature, cops don't trust anybody to talk to anybody.
42:14
Speaker 3: But if you can call somebody and they pick it up and it's an older, a tiger cop that you can vent to that's probably been in some of your situations it's really helpful, um you just said something wrong ago that kind of triggered me.
42:26
Speaker 1: I you know since, since, since my move, I didn't recognize the mental uh, some of the middle, I guess situations that I had living in East Texas.
42:37
Speaker 1: I had lived in Jefferson, worked in Marshall and worked in Jefferson too, uh, with my kids.
42:43
Speaker 1: Though you're right, you know you drive past.
42:45
Speaker 1: You probably went the same thing in Garland, you know, you living in for me, we, you were drive past different spots, um, but you will now live north of Dallas.
42:54
Speaker 1: North of Dallas.
42:55
Speaker 1: Do you feel like your transition from where you were in Cherokee County to where you are now has been a weight lifted off your shoulders, that you kind of have a fresh start?
43:11
Speaker 1: And I mean that the back to your point about you know you drive past that one stop sign where you know, little Debbie got in a 1050 or you know.
43:21
Speaker 1: So-and-so got shot.
43:22
Speaker 1: I mean, is it improved your quality of life with your kids and you yourself?
43:28
Speaker 2: I would tell you yes and no.
43:30
Speaker 2: I think what makes most I don't know how to say it.
43:38
Speaker 2: I was even a good or a great cop, but I think cops they kind of need that pain too, because it drives them you know right.
43:49
Speaker 2: It's the, those memories that are kind of like, yeah, that's what I'm here to do, I'm here to solve that problem, I'm here to stand in the dark or I'm gonna stand in the gap and I'm gonna give you everything I've got while I'm sitting here.
44:02
Speaker 2: So for a part of me being removed from that, like mentally, 100% of where I enjoy taking my kids around town and I'm not looking over my shoulder you know there's, you've got those suspects right.
44:16
Speaker 2: You don't wanna see them in Walmart because you kind of you know tracking them and seeing where they're going.
44:21
Speaker 2: They know who you are.
44:21
Speaker 2: So there's a lot of you know relief and security and safety and not, you know, living where you serve, which was unique for me.
44:31
Speaker 2: But you know I'm also a pack animal too.
44:35
Speaker 2: You know I love my people, love my department.
44:37
Speaker 2: Those memories are part of what have made me so.
44:44
Speaker 3: I miss those.
44:45
Speaker 2: Yeah.
44:45
Speaker 2: So in a weird kind of maybe masochist way, like, yeah, I kind of miss that drive too Right, that makes sense.
44:55
Speaker 3: Well, you're dead on your point about we live in our combat zone.
44:58
Speaker 3: Years ago I was working with the Brain Performance Institute and Dr Hart from UT Southwest Institute and he was working with Tier One operator vets on PTS and he was wanting to know.
45:09
Speaker 3: I was trying to get him to see cops and he said why should I care?
45:12
Speaker 3: Why should I care about cops?
45:14
Speaker 3: And I said, why is it a Marine?
45:16
Speaker 3: So I'm not I don't mean this disrespectful to the military, but you have a soldier or Marine in Afghanistan for four months that's been in combat.
45:27
Speaker 3: When they come home, they're not driving a Humvee, they're not in camis, they're not eating MREs, they don't smell sand, they're not they're.
45:37
Speaker 3: They come home to a sterile environment.
45:39
Speaker 3: I'm not taken away from service of our members at all, but a deputy in Canton, texas, gets into shooting on Friday.
45:49
Speaker 3: Their manpower's low.
45:51
Speaker 3: He's probably back to work Sunday night or Monday in the same beat, probably driving the same car, listening to the same dispatcher, possibly answering a call on the same street, possibly at the same house dealing with relatives that they shot.
46:05
Speaker 3: He'll never leave his combat zone for the remainder of his career.
46:10
Speaker 3: And Dr Hart goes and I was like oh shit, I pissed this guy off and he said son of a bitch.
46:17
Speaker 3: I was like, is that a good son, bitch?
46:22
Speaker 3: And he's like I would have never thought about that and that's why I don't mean any disrespect to the military, but you got some young person, 22 years old, involved in a shooting or almost lost their life.
46:30
Speaker 3: They're not built, they don't have the life experience, the ability to compartmentalize that, and they're going to deal with that the rest of their life.
46:37
Speaker 3: Answering calls on that street and dealing with that had a young deputy had to go back three days later getting the car.
46:44
Speaker 3: He got grazed and he said I went back to work and my blood's still all over the police car.
46:49
Speaker 3: They didn't clean it up.
46:50
Speaker 3: I drove that car that night covered my blood and I thought, man, that's just not exactly what humans are built to to to manage.
46:58
Speaker 3: But to your point, we do a great job of compartmentalizing it and we put on the, we strap up and we go back to work.
47:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, I almost took the roof off of ground.
47:09
Speaker 2: Vic one night in a pursuit, went to pipe, suck a rod fence and I zigged when I should have zagged.
47:14
Speaker 2: And you know the other cops in the county, they were like, just pin your badge to the back of the chair, just walk home, sheriff's going to fire you.
47:23
Speaker 2: You know it's, it's going to be bad.
47:25
Speaker 2: And I get out there and it was our sheriff man.
47:29
Speaker 2: He loved his cars, loved them.
47:31
Speaker 2: He could tell you within like a hundred miles how many miles you had on the odometer of any car in his fleet.
47:38
Speaker 2: And so he got out there and got a tow truck, took me back to the department, said put your gear in that one, go back to work.
47:44
Speaker 2: And I'm sitting there still shaking, you know, I mean literally almost 10 can the roof of this thing.
47:49
Speaker 2: You know like I thought I was going to get to go home and he's like nah, put your gear over there, get in that one get back out there, you back in service, so I'm not fired.
47:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, just like yeah.
47:59
Speaker 2: At that time you didn't know what was better or what was worse.
48:02
Speaker 2: So you know, but you think about that for for our men and women and it's not just cops, right, you know EMTs, firefighters you know, nurses yeah.
48:10
Speaker 2: They're, they're picking up the aftermath of our society's worst days, and then they go home and they're supposed to cook dinner, play baseball, you know sort of birthday party.
48:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, pretend like you didn't just do what you did a few hours ago and you know, because you truly are are removed from your worst day by only a few hours to before.
48:38
Speaker 2: You're interacting with your family and loved ones again, and whatever whatever part of your brain that you compartmentalize that in it's going to be unhealthy.
48:50
Speaker 2: Yep.
48:51
Speaker 2: So you know that's.
48:53
Speaker 2: That's why I love Cop Line.
48:55
Speaker 3: I'm glad you're a part of it.
48:56
Speaker 3: Stephanie Samuels is an angel.
48:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, she is, she absolutely is, and she is so no government funding, you know, completely anonymous, it's, all you know, donor funded and it's cops serving cops.
49:10
Speaker 2: I couldn't do the training.
49:11
Speaker 2: I sat through like half a day.
49:13
Speaker 2: If you called me, we'd both be crying, you know, if you needed help.
49:16
Speaker 2: It was challenging, it was, it was insane.
49:19
Speaker 2: But those cops that volunteer, they get on a plane, most of them right.
49:25
Speaker 2: They're flying around.
49:26
Speaker 2: They only do three or four trainings a year and so they're paying their own way.
49:29
Speaker 2: So you've got these men and women that have worn the badge, they've done the job and they still feel a call of service and they want to help.
49:37
Speaker 2: So they spend their own dollars to go through that training and the attrition rates, like the seals, you know, stephanie only lets maybe two out of five, you know, through and they each class is maybe 20 to 30 people.
49:49
Speaker 3: It's tough.
49:50
Speaker 3: I was voluntold to go, yeah, and I was.
49:53
Speaker 3: I'm extremely glad I went, but it was a tough, it's tough to sit through and you do scenario training.
49:59
Speaker 3: Well, then you start sharing and I'm like, god bless, man, I need it's.
50:05
Speaker 3: It is a challenging program, it's great.
50:09
Speaker 2: So we, so we put it in the app.
50:11
Speaker 2: You know you think about all these cops and under working.
50:13
Speaker 2: You know I tell bill at a time, man cops aren't working extra jobs because they're bored.
50:19
Speaker 2: You know, and most of them would rather be home.
50:22
Speaker 2: I've met a couple that maybe don't want to go home, but the majority of these cops don't want to be working these jobs.
50:28
Speaker 2: You know some external force is compelling them to do that Child support, truck payment, college you know they're they're trying to do something to.
50:39
Speaker 2: Something external is motivating them to go work that job, and I always found that to be a very lonely place to be, and so that's why we had integrated the you know the number and the information and hopefully, during that downtime when it's quiet and you know, those thoughts creep in where you really need somebody to talk.
51:00
Speaker 2: We just want people to know about it.
51:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's awesome.
51:02
Speaker 1: Well, I think this, I think we covered everything we wanted to cover.
51:07
Speaker 3: What do we miss, chris?
51:11
Speaker 2: Oh, cops and business, right, there is life after law enforcement.
51:18
Speaker 2: It is the most honorable thing I've ever done and I think anybody could do is.
51:24
Speaker 2: It takes a certain type of person to go do that.
51:27
Speaker 2: There's life after law enforcement.
51:30
Speaker 2: It's scary.
51:32
Speaker 2: The majority of the time I tell people that they're transitioning out of law enforcement they're like what do I expect?
51:37
Speaker 2: I'm going kind of into corporate America.
51:39
Speaker 2: Maybe they got a corporate security job.
51:41
Speaker 2: They're a security director or a manager somewhere and they said what can I expect?
51:45
Speaker 2: And I would tell them I think the hardest part is that there will be things that happen in the commercial world that never rise to their give a shit meter.
51:56
Speaker 2: They're just not going to care.
51:58
Speaker 2: There will be people run around, they'll always go oh, this is the worst day ever.
52:03
Speaker 2: And oh my gosh, and they want you to be.
52:05
Speaker 2: You know, anxious and excited over it too, but after a career in law enforcement, you're like that is not a problem.
52:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's all you got yeah.
52:15
Speaker 2: I said, you have to develop a certain level of empathy for the people around you that haven't seen and done what you've done, because they're going to need you to respond, but someone's going to have to remind you that, hey, in our business this is a problem and you need to address it because you're numb to it, the things that people are worried about.
52:34
Speaker 2: It just doesn't register anymore, right, that's a great point.
52:39
Speaker 3: Life after a cop, because I can't tell you I've been at TNPA 12 or 13 years.
52:43
Speaker 3: I can't tell you how many people I've heard out of their mouth go.
52:48
Speaker 3: I don't know what.
52:50
Speaker 3: If I'll do.
52:50
Speaker 3: If I'm not a cop, I don't know what I'll do.
52:51
Speaker 3: Being a cop defines me and I'm like a piece of metal worn on your chest.
52:59
Speaker 3: If that's all you have in life, if that defines you, you to the better end you're missing out on a lot of life.
53:09
Speaker 3: You should define what kind of cop you're going to be, but the little piece of metal on your badge, that shouldn't be the hold.
53:16
Speaker 3: That defines.
53:17
Speaker 3: That encompasses all of Clint's life.
53:20
Speaker 3: Outside of that is nothing.
53:21
Speaker 3: You better have some other things on that hobbies, family, friends outside of law enforcement.
53:28
Speaker 3: There's there's a bigger life out there other than the police world.
53:33
Speaker 3: In my first several years I didn't know that.
53:34
Speaker 3: I listened to the radio off duty and I would only hang around with cops and man.
53:40
Speaker 3: There's a bigger life out there.
53:41
Speaker 3: There's a bigger life out there than that.
53:44
Speaker 2: Social media is now restricting our network into smaller and smaller and smaller groups, you know algorithms and all this stuff, whether it's Instagram, facebook, uh X, right, whatever it is and so your exposure to other people and other ideas and other opportunities as a cop today is getting smaller, because your group, when you go to get online during your downtime, it's maybe you're into you know woodworking and mountain biking, or you're going to get cop feeds, you're going to get you know carpentry and then you're going to get mountain biking your echo chamber.
54:24
Speaker 2: Yeah.
54:24
Speaker 2: So if that's all we're doing as cops and we're not encouraging each other to to get out of those networks to be able to, you know, to have that opportunity to build that business, and you know, and it's got to, I'm not going to say it has to be in service, but that's where cops hearts are.
54:41
Speaker 1: Yeah.
54:42
Speaker 2: You find a way to help people.
54:43
Speaker 2: Whether you have a badge on or you've got a clipboard in your hand, you find the same fulfillment.
54:48
Speaker 1: Yeah.
54:49
Speaker 2: It feels just as good, yeah.
54:51
Speaker 2: So how old are you, chris?
54:53
Speaker 2: Oh, 48.
54:55
Speaker 3: What would 48 year old Chris tell 15 year old Chris?
55:01
Speaker 3: Go home more.
55:06
Speaker 2: I should have gone home more.
55:09
Speaker 2: I love where I'm at today my my 28 year old.
55:13
Speaker 2: He slept in the backseat of my truck when I was working jobs because I was a single dad, Dad um, I have a.
55:21
Speaker 2: I have an amazing relationship with him as a friend.
55:24
Speaker 2: He didn't know me much as a father, spent all my time working.
55:28
Speaker 2: Uh, gotta go home.
55:31
Speaker 2: You know people need you there and and I've always been driven to to do more, do the next thing.
55:39
Speaker 2: But uh, you know, I sure would love to have some of those weekends back.
55:44
Speaker 2: Cause I can't remember what I spent that money on.
55:47
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like to be said there.
55:49
Speaker 3: You've done a whole lot to be 48.
55:54
Speaker 3: What has been your very, very best day you've ever had and what's been your worst day you've ever had.
56:01
Speaker 2: Oh, a best day.
56:03
Speaker 2: Walked into the police department and rested a uniformed cop, Crime against children, Wow.
56:10
Speaker 2: And uh stood up disarmed, handcuffed, and walked him out.
56:17
Speaker 2: A piece of crap.
56:18
Speaker 2: And that was my best day is my favorite of them all because I'm a blue line cop.
56:25
Speaker 2: But the blue line does not cover uh immorality, illegal or unethical behavior.
56:31
Speaker 2: Praying on kids.
56:32
Speaker 2: Good Lord, you know the, to me the blue line connects.
56:35
Speaker 2: It's an emotional connection between men and women that have done that job and they, they know the toll it takes.
56:41
Speaker 2: That's what it is to me.
56:43
Speaker 2: Uh, worst day.
56:45
Speaker 2: Uh saw uh a case as a case number and forgot that that case number was assigned to two dead boys and I was emotionally numb to the the family that it impacted and I didn't do anything wrong that day.
57:06
Speaker 2: I just didn't have empathy for the situation they were in.
57:09
Speaker 2: And you know, long story short, these two boys had passed away.
57:15
Speaker 2: Er cleared out.
57:18
Speaker 2: You know you got to go in there and bag them, do all this stuff.
57:20
Speaker 2: And uh, there's like a three year old on the left and a five year old on the right.
57:26
Speaker 2: The door into the ER was in the middle and I was crimes against children for years.
57:31
Speaker 2: Right, I thought that I had it and so you know we it was pretty cutting dry.
57:34
Speaker 2: You know, I know you're not supposed to let the family in, but you know this mother was pretty upset and her father, the grandfather, was like she just wants to see him and so like, okay, did my part, and I was even so cocky that I told the other investigators like, uh, I got it, don't worry about it, you know I'll, I'll jog, you know, lock down the.
57:56
Speaker 2: You know the clothing and.
57:57
Speaker 3: I'll do all that.
57:59
Speaker 2: Well, I let her in after I was done, in the middle, and she looked left at her three year old and she looked right at her five year old and just collapsed because which one of your dead babies you're going to go hold first?
58:10
Speaker 2: God bless, and those beds have wheels, guys.
58:13
Speaker 2: It'd been really easy to push those things together.
58:15
Speaker 2: Um, and the sound that left her lips will I'll remember to the day I live.
58:23
Speaker 2: Anyway, that was my worst day?
58:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, um, because I I didn't have empathy.
58:28
Speaker 2: I didn't have empathy.
58:31
Speaker 2: I wasn't thinking about the people I was serving, I was just thinking about how strong I was.
58:36
Speaker 2: That these, you know, these poor, you know souls emotionally didn't bother me and at the time I took a lot of pride in that and that I was able to do that job and it didn't.
58:46
Speaker 3: I didn't superimpose my kids' faces on them and I thought that made me special and uh, so it's a fine line to walk because to cope through years of working crimes against children, crimes against persons, you got to compartmentalize a little bit, um, but that's a slippery slope.
59:05
Speaker 3: People used to ask me, how do you wear commasides?
59:06
Speaker 3: And I'm like that body's a piece of evidence.
59:09
Speaker 3: It's how I got to look at it.
59:10
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't, I don't want to walk in there and think about is that a dad or a son, is that a?
59:14
Speaker 3: Is that somebody's grandson?
59:16
Speaker 3: Or I looked at it as that's a piece of evidence laying over there and that's a cold, sick way to do it.
59:21
Speaker 3: But that was my coping mechanism and I'll allow myself to start trying to get emotionally attached, and some of them you can't help it.
59:30
Speaker 3: But it's a slippery slope, it's a balancing act.
59:34
Speaker 1: Yep, yep, well, um, we like to end each episode with three rapid fire questions.
59:38
Speaker 1: We don't have one of them.
59:40
Speaker 1: We're not asking them.
59:41
Speaker 1: Oh, we are 100%.
59:43
Speaker 1: Let's do it.
59:44
Speaker 1: Yep, yep, let's wrap this up.
59:44
Speaker 1: What is your favorite lines from a cop movie?
59:47
Speaker 1: Or your favorite cop movie?
59:49
Speaker 2: Uh, favorite cop movies have to be lethal weapon.
59:52
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, yeah.
59:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good one.
59:54
Speaker 1: Favorite cop car Uh, crown Vic, 100%.
59:58
Speaker 1: Thank you, my man.
59:58
Speaker 1: Our sense did coming in.
1:00:00
Speaker 1: What's your second favorite?
1:00:02
Speaker 1: Would you like a second?
1:00:03
Speaker 1: I can run her up.
1:00:05
Speaker 3: Sure no, he's too young, he didn't drive it.
1:00:08
Speaker 1: You're 40.
1:00:09
Speaker 1: What I'm 48.
1:00:10
Speaker 1: You're what?
1:00:12
Speaker 2: 51.
1:00:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, so in 98, I got the first model of the new crown Vic.
1:00:19
Speaker 2: That came out Okay, and it's the first new model crown Vic in our entire county, probably like the chrome grill.
1:00:26
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it did.
1:00:26
Speaker 3: Yeah, did you drive any squad car before that, or that was your first ever police car.
1:00:30
Speaker 3: I didn't have the Caprice.
1:00:32
Speaker 2: I had the, I had the old body.
1:00:33
Speaker 2: You only know what you know.
1:00:35
Speaker 2: Here we go.
1:00:36
Speaker 2: There was one I mean the thing with the Caprice, right, it had all mode and no brake.
1:00:42
Speaker 2: That was.
1:00:43
Speaker 3: That's what it's all about.
1:00:44
Speaker 3: It's all.
1:00:45
Speaker 3: It's all go yeah, all go no show Favorite drink of choice.
1:00:48
Speaker 1: Favorite drink of choice.
1:00:50
Speaker 2: Adult.
1:00:50
Speaker 2: Right now it'd be TX whiskey, neat Firestone and Robertson up in Fort Worth.
1:00:55
Speaker 2: If you haven't, had it.
1:00:56
Speaker 3: Oh, it's good.
1:00:57
Speaker 2: Oh, it's good.
1:00:58
Speaker 3: Nothing wrong with that, I call it Texas sweet tea.
1:01:00
Speaker 1: Yeah it's pretty good.
1:01:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's too good.
1:01:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is good, I like it.
1:01:05
Speaker 3: You got a thing else, big though man.
1:01:07
Speaker 3: I appreciate you coming down sincerely.
1:01:09
Speaker 3: I appreciate what you do, your time in service with Copline and um glad to have you as a friend.
1:01:18
Speaker 2: I thank you all very much.
1:01:18
Speaker 2: Thank you all for what you all are doing.
1:01:20
Speaker 2: I mean, I was a member of TNPA.
1:01:22
Speaker 2: They did a pay referendum for our department back in 2001.
1:01:27
Speaker 2: Got my pay up from 21 to like 32.
1:01:31
Speaker 2: I'll give me a 50% pay raise.
1:01:33
Speaker 2: That's so.
1:01:34
Speaker 2: Tnpa has been there for me.
1:01:36
Speaker 2: I am a huge fan of rejoined a couple of years ago, so I'm still a member, but, um, you know they, they just been there for me.
1:01:46
Speaker 2: So thank you all for what you do for cops.
1:01:47
Speaker 2: You know that's uh, we need, we need more voices out there and what you're doing is pretty cool.
1:01:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, appreciate you, man.
1:01:54
Speaker 1: Thank you for coming on.
1:01:54
Speaker 1: Well, I guess this is about wraps it up.
1:01:57
Speaker 1: You guys take care, stay safe.
1:01:59
Speaker 1: Uh, god bless you.
1:02:01
Speaker 1: And, as always, may God bless Texas Well.