Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 357 - Canal Street Showdown

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JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 357 - Canal Street Showdown · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: He is the Joy. Then job Joke be spending from
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: A b Ram and.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: Trumb be Stan, Joby Rock condenjob Brady Me, then job
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Joe by spending from Beam and Trimble be Stan show Me,
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: stop Doty, show.
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: Brady ill see by jam Jack.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Nothing to sell them show kill we go.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: And here we go, Here we go. Indeed, Joseph, what's
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: up everybody? It's the trouble be. This is the Lone
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Cooming podcast is episode number three and fifty seven, The
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: Canal Streets Showdown Now. Uh for our members channel members
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: who were with us on Wednesday night and got a
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: preview what we're going to be doing tonight, this is
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: not it, as you can obviously see. So uh we'll
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: just leave it at debt and move on. Yes, right, Joe, Yeah,
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: you know it's uh we're for the other day another
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: member's only show.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Another day, yes, sir, But but before we start off,
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Double B coming in hot right out of the gates.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: Five Spook level memberships and uh let's see who got him?
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: Uh Kee Bi, Yes, Mike c Gress Junior and k
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: got one. Richard Sipe. A lot of people get the
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: same memberships gifted as evidence by me getting two or
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: three at this point.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: Well, that means we have returning viewers Joe, which is
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: a good thing.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: Yep, Deedie, Robert who it might be new and Steven Rose.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: Welcome, congratch elations, folks, and thank you to the big
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: double B. And that's not all. Bam bam bam bam
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: bam coming through with the super chat. That's right. Oh,
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: smash the like button, folks. It's a little little thing
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  Speaker 2: with the thumbs up. And if you're not subscribed, just
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  Speaker 2: get notified. When we drop. You won't regret it. I promise.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: You will not. And it helps us defeat the A
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: L G O and UH which might be against us.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: So it was against this last week.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: It's against us pretty recently, like way more than I like.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: But it happens. It is what it is. Let me
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: welcome in some of our favorite UH channel subscribers, of course,
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: Paula Jane super Spy, what's up, Sally Evening Chaps and
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: chapists ch Is that a word, Sally chapiss? No?
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: But chapped asses is.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's E S S E S not a
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: S S S M.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: Semantics.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it could be Calney, which is London slang. You know,
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: there's a little language barrier there. Double B of course,
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: Lo Sally, of course, we already talked about double B.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: Scott Edwards, Hello, sir, how are you? I'm sure he
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: has a nice, beautiful drink ready? And uh, mister Jack Taylor,
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  Speaker 1: how are you, sir?
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: And mister PSV Odyssey, how do you? How do you?
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: How do you? How did you? Sir? How are you?
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: Welcome in?
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: Sir?
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  Speaker 2: You didn't tonight, I didn't.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: I made sure and turn Horse do it for l
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: h oh, that's what we do this for him? And Kennedy,
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: Yes and yes, and James Smith coming in last, but
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: definitely not least.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, welcome in, James. And I'm sure there'll be some
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: stragglers rolling in here in just a minute. But before
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: we get started tonight, we're gonna set the table for
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: you a little bit about what we're gonna be talking
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: about here, and if you couldn't figure it out from
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: my amazing brain and the show art, which I'll pop
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: up here one more time. For those of you not
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: familiar with the American rock band the Misfits, they had
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: a guitarist named Doyle von Frankenstein blah blah blah blah blah,
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: but he mainly went by the name Doyle. That would
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: be him on the left. And then we have a
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: movie projector that I put the little name of Doyle
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: and Company on the side of. We're filming Lee Harvey
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: Oswald handing out leaflets on Canal Street with a picture
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: of Canal Street in the nineteen sixties in the background.
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  Speaker 2: It's very deep, Joe. A lot of thought goes into
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: the show art. You might not think that it does.
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  Speaker 2: A lot of thought and effort does go into the
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: show art. People.
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  Speaker 1: I am aware of this, yes, and yeah.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: Joe has no idea and I don't even know Joe
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  Speaker 2: on the show art.
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  Speaker 1: I was just about to say, I don't think I
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: even know how much effort was into it.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: I try to be somewhat clever because it amuses me.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: Sometimes I try to come up with names for the
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: show and show art, and that's my creative side, just
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: pouring out of me, if you will, which is kind
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: of disgusting to think about. But nonetheless, oh man, before
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: we get started here, and I know I said that
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  Speaker 2: two or three times, but let me just set the
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: table a little bit for what we'll be talking about
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  Speaker 2: here tonight, called the Doyle film, folks. Now, this is
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: a film very much maligned with the John T. Martin film, okay,
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  Speaker 2: because these two films captured the exact same thing from
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: different angles, and that would be the street fracas on
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  Speaker 2: Canal Street that resulted in Lee Harvey Oswald being arrested
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: and taken to jail and Carlos Brigner and a couple
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: of his buddies arrested and set free. If you will, now,
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  Speaker 2: why is this important? Okay, Well, we all know the
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: reason that the Martin film is important because it shows
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: something that couldn't be really astronomically odds based possible, and
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: that of course is on the same role of film,
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  Speaker 2: you have footage of General Walker's house in Dallas that
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: shows you the shots through the window right, which indicates
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: this kid is in General Walker's house. And then on
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  Speaker 2: the same role of film. I don't know how long
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  Speaker 2: in between we are here from these both these incidents
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: on the film, but you see him travel to New Orleans.
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  Speaker 2: You see different sites around New Orleans like the Zoo
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: and Jackson Square, and then the film cuts to the incident,
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: the fracas if you will on Canal Street, and we've
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: all seen that at a gazillion times. It's in your brain.
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  Speaker 2: This film was donated to the sixth Floor Museum and
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: you can go watch it there. And it was shot
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  Speaker 2: by a teenage boy, a young, smooth, very right wing
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: teenage boy who was very fond of General Walker. You
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  Speaker 2: may have and talked to this man in New Orleans
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  Speaker 2: and been directed to, Hey, kid, I see you've got
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  Speaker 2: a camera there. Hey, why don't you go over there
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  Speaker 2: on Canal Street and get some footage of this other
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  Speaker 2: guy over there?
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: You might wanna, don't know, just speculating here, folks. Now,
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  Speaker 2: the other film was also shot by a very young,
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  Speaker 2: smooth teenage boy. David Ferry would have been proud of
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  Speaker 2: these two for sure. Now this one, however, was not alone.
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  Speaker 2: In fact, he was there with a multitude of people,
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  Speaker 2: including siblings, parents, other grown adults who are friends of
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  Speaker 2: the parents, and other kids who were the other parents' kids.
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  Speaker 2: So there's a gaggle of fraggles basically walking down Canal
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  Speaker 2: Street that happened upon this scene, if you will, and
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  Speaker 2: the way it kind of went down, I believe Joe,
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  Speaker 2: is that the group of males were in front. There's
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  Speaker 2: like a group of males walking together, which means this boy,
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  Speaker 2: his father, his male, his father's male friend, friend, family friend,
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  Speaker 2: and if they had a son, it was probably with them.
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  Speaker 2: And then and the ladies were somewhat straggling behind if
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  Speaker 2: you will, you know, talking as women do. They'll be
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  Speaker 2: doing a little window shopping, if you will, you know,
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  Speaker 2: down Canal Street.
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  Speaker 1: But I believe.
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  Speaker 2: The ladies came were, you know, not not far. You know,
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  Speaker 2: we're talking maybe maybe thirty seconds to a minute behind.
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  Speaker 1: These folks, yeah, half of block maybe, yeah, yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Not because once you get into like we're going to
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  Speaker 2: get into the FBI reports and what each of them saw,
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  Speaker 2: you'll come to see that the guys and the girls
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  Speaker 2: didn't always see the same thing. Or we have another
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  Speaker 2: case of the FBI hi altering testimony if you will,
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  Speaker 2: to fit the narrative, which you'll understand once we get
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  Speaker 2: into the film itself. Now, Joe, as you know with
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  Speaker 2: the Martin film after and this is true for both
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  Speaker 2: the Martin and the Doyle film. So you know, they
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  Speaker 2: don't think anything of this, right, they think they you know,
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  Speaker 2: they got some there on vacation whatever. You know, they
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  Speaker 2: got their home movies out. They make a couple of
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  Speaker 2: home movies. Something happens that wasn't you know. It was
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  Speaker 2: a little exciting, but nothing too crazy, right.
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  Speaker 1: Right right, nothing to call up the FBI about.
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  Speaker 2: Remember twenty second happens and Lee Harvey Oswald's face is
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  Speaker 2: plastered all over everything, along with descriptions of him being
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  Speaker 2: arrested in New Orleans. So, independently of each other, Martin
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  Speaker 2: and Doyle and their respective families realize, oh shit, that
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  Speaker 2: really looks like the guy that we saw get arrested
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  Speaker 2: in New Orleans. And oh yeah, by the way, we
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  Speaker 2: had our movie cameras, whether it's we got film of
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  Speaker 2: this guy. Right, So, each of them independently on their own,
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  Speaker 2: they weren't tracked down by the FBI. They called the FBI,
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  Speaker 2: and they offered up their home movies. Now, the interesting
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  Speaker 2: thing is is that both the Doyle family and John T.
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  Speaker 2: Martin would also allege that the film they turned over
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  Speaker 2: to the FBI to be perused, you know, for anything significant,
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  Speaker 2: any clues maybe that would help the world understand Lee
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  Speaker 2: Harvey Oswald a little more.
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  Speaker 1: On their own volition, both of them by the way.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, so they were. They handed over their films to
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  Speaker 2: the FBI. The FBI, of course, looked at the films,
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  Speaker 2: determined that there was nothing of value here, and claimed
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: that they gave the films back. Now, both the Doyle
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  Speaker 2: family and the Martin family, they both say that both
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: of their films were edited by the FBI, as in
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: things were taken out. And when it comes to the
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  Speaker 2: Martin film, as you'll see, a lot was taken out,
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  Speaker 2: like two and a half minutes. Were the shit taken out,
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  Speaker 2: like not just a little bit, not five seconds here
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  Speaker 2: or there, but significantly edited and then returned to them,
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  Speaker 2: which is a problem when once we started getting into
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: the descriptions of what they actually saw that day. So, Joe,
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  Speaker 2: without further ado, let's get into some FBI documents because
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: I think that's where this story starts.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: Okay, do you want to show the film first or
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: do you want me to.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: Go about that? Sorry, I got to help. If everybody
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: saw the film.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: It's okay, Tiny, I don't know what the hell you're
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: talking about here, she goes, sorry, there is no evidence
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  Speaker 1: that the seventeen year old was behind the camera himself,
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: and she has to be referring to John T. Martin
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: because Jim Doyle was like fourteen. Some people said he's sixteen,
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: but according to documents, he's fourteen. He had the film
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: that was given to the sixth Floor. The assumption that
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: he shot the film himself is just that assuming.
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  Speaker 2: I believe. We've got a variety of of documents states
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  Speaker 2: that he was definitely the one filming. There's absolutely no
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  Speaker 2: documents out there pretending to John T. Martin of his
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: parents being interviewed or talked to, which is different when
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: you get to the Doyle film because Doyle at the
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: time is fourteen years old, thirteen or fourteen. They don't
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  Speaker 2: even interview him. No, they talk directly to his parents.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: And we know the little Jim Doyle was there with
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: his parents. We don't know. And Rob and I are
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: pretty positive that John T. Martin made the tructed Orleans
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  Speaker 1: without his parents.
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  Speaker 2: Well, we don't know that for sure, No, we assume,
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  Speaker 2: but we have a lot of correspondence when we look
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  Speaker 2: trust us on this. There's a lot of stuff in
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  Speaker 2: there in the Wisburg archive from when Harold Wiseburg was
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: at the University of Minnesota and him and Gary Schoner
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  Speaker 2: ran into Martin, and from talking to him, they got
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: a lot of the background stuff. You know that he
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: definitely filmed it and all of that.
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  Speaker 1: So and you have the FBI documents in December sixty
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: three of him submitting his his his tape and when
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: he got back home from military school, and it says
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  Speaker 1: it was taped by John Martin. So I'm not sure.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: Maybe I misinterpreted that. If I did, tiny, I'm sorry,
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: but robned it.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: You know, all these years he's never dined it. Whoa,
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: whoa hey now.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: Early comment of the night, Possibly David Ferry making tight
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: ends into wide receivers.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: You got to make a whole big enough to run
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: through double B.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: And Scott says, and I think this is trolling us
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: a little bit. Not trolling us, but making a joke.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: One film for Harvey, the other film the lead.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: Well we'll get there, Scott, trust us. Yeah, all right,
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: So let's take a look at this film real quick. Joe,
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: let's let me up here. There's no sound and like
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: I said, it's only about thirty seconds song.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, hey, mister Ashley, how are you? Thanks for joining in?
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: And Timothy Ryan, what's up, sir? How are you? And
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: who's heaven touchdowns.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: All right, Joe, stop for a second.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: Sorry, stragglers are coming in, sir.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: All right, here we go.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: Here we go, Hi up and check?
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: Oh t chef, hey Sally wrong video? Hold on soon
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: one second? Here we go. Take two.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: Yes, you see Lee in the center there Lee again.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: Bunch of cafoozas and white shirts and uh and hats.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: And it ends with missus Pat Doyle looking sexy in
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: front of an eucalyptus tree right now, real quick before
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: we Oh.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: I never caught that, good catch, missus missus Doyle. There
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: I did. I never did.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: I never called that smoking miss Doyle.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean he was the president of American Constructions something.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: We'll get there. But so you would think he would
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: have a pretty good looking wife.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: Now, I paused it here because, as you'll see in
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: the documents, if Joe would stop throwing shit on the
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: screen while I'm talking right there in the middle of
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: the screen, I believe it's a trash can Joe. Do
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: you see it? Cylindrical in shape and white?
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: I do, just to the right of the uh the
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: street line, yeah, yeah.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: Yes, And there's something leaning against it that is not
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: facing us, that is actually facing away from us, and
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: I believe, as we'll see in the documents, that may
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: have been one of the placard signs that either Oswald
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: or the guy he was with. Yeah you heard that right, folks,
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: was wearing. Yes, I just wanted to point that out there.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's a good point, and we will hear that.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: It surprised me actually looking at this again and Trey,
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: what's up, buddy coming up with a tunnel or super chrack.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: Good to see Sally again, Yes, there was.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: Damn. We're making money tonight, Joe. You much appreciated from Shree.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: Trey Double B task Force hottie from Ireland. Yeah, I
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: mean Double B is not far off there, all right.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: I got to figure out how to get this guy
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: damn video off the screen.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: Old, please, what the hell? I promise I'll figure it
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: out here in just a second, folks. Hmm hmm. Well
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: that's not.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: Mm hmmmm mm hmm. We don't. I don't mind looking
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: at missus Doyle.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: There we go, all right, we're back, all right.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: So yeah, as we like to do, Rob, we like
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: to go in chronological order. But before we get into
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: the FBI documents, you referenced a minute or two ago.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: Are going to be front of Logical Joe. We discussed
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: before the show.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I said, no, I don't. I'm aware. I see,
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: I said. Let's because as the video you just showed
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: has like a like a stamp in the middle of it.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: The I think it's a w DSU library something. Friend
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: of the show, Okay, okay, what did it say?
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: It did not say w DSU library. Okay, I don't know,
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: but it doesn't matter.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: It does not matter, correct A friend of the show
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: Alex Harris, of course JFK theorist on YouTube, friend of Lancer,
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: And whenever I have any video or photo questions, I
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: shoot a message and he gave me a bunch of
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: stills back, and these are stills from the Doyle film.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: So I thought i'd go through a couple of these
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: before we get into the NBI documents. There's only like
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: six of them without the kind of stamp in the
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: middle of it. And of course in the middle there
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: you see mister Lee or Harvey, depending on your perspective.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: Right in the middle of this guy in the suit
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: to the right and the skufu's on the left. Here
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: you see Lee who is kind of reaching his arm
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: out here talking with the Cubans. I believe this is
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: Carlos Brgier to the left of his elbow. Well, we
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: could debate that, and Rob, you'd be surprised to hear that.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: A lot of the witnesses said they saw a group
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: of up to eight Cubans.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll get there.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll get there.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: You have Lee Harvey Oswald kind of like again in
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: the middle, with kind of like some light reflecting off
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: his face, the left side of his face from our view.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: Then you have and this is why I said Carlo
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: spring Air, because I think he's the guy to the
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: left of Lee, although it doesn't look like Lee, but
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: from the rest of the.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, with gigantic forehead.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is another one. This is another one. This
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: is Lee here in the middle with kind of like
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: the plumbers crack in his shirt there, kind of talking
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: to the police.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: Not the black policeman, which is that.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: I just saw that, Rob. It looks like a black
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: woman policeman. But I don't think that would have been near. Yeah,
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: but you're right, that's a good point. Here you have
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: again Lee.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: Take down, not come on now, come on, back up,
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: get up.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: Hey, here you have Lee again, his back towards us,
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: I think, bring a to his left and the three
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: police officers one, two, three right around him. And uh
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: yeah so uh James Pat Doyle Senior, Senior was in
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: New Orleans for convention and his fourteen year old son
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: took this video. And I think it's a very different circumstances, Rob.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: Before I read this than the John T. Martin film,
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: we have talked about that and how we think John T. Martin,
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: who obviously had filmed Walker's House, was probably sent from
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: Dallas to New Orleans for something.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, involved truly organic coincidence.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: Correct, Yes, I can't agree more so, it is really
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: interesting to see the similarities between them.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: And I think a much better quality movie than John T. Martin's.
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: Like I think he had a better camera, better film.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: The quality of it is way better.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. So I guess the Doyle's went to
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: the FBI on November twenty sixth let me see when
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: this was transcribed. Yeah, so this was conducted this interview
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: at FBI Portland off Portland, Oregon, eleven, twenty six, sixty three,
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: So Sunday was the twenty fourth. This would be the
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: Tuesday after the assassination. J Pat Doyle, Portland, Oregon, advised
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: that he is employed at an electrical construction work for
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: the Charles T. Parker Construction Company in Portland. In August
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: nineteen sixty three, he attended an electrical contractor's convention in
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: New Orleans, Louisiana. He was accompanied by Matt Wilson, who
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: also is in the electrical construction business in Portland. Both
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: men were accompanied to New Orleans by their wives and
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: two children. At about four o'clock in the afternoon on
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: Friday of Friday, August ninth, A good day, if I
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: say so myself, Rob nineteen sixty three, mister Doyle, mister Wilson,
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: and the young son of each were walking on Canal Street,
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: New Orleans, approximately a quarter of a block behind Missus Doyle,
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: Missus Wilson and their two daughters. Okay, so they were behind,
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: the kids were behind, the wives were in the middle,
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: and the husbands mister Wilson and Doyle were kind of
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: a quarter block ahead of that.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: Is that how you read this, That's how you're reading it.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: But I think they got it a little backwards, because
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: it seems to me like you'll see here. As we talked,
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: the Doyles saw something different than the Wilson's, which is
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: odd because there was Matt was with Pat and then
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: the two wives were together.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, we we'll get there shortly. I mean, I
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: mean we are, and.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: We'll point out the major differences in their story here
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: in just a second. But we'll go through the Oiles
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: first and then we'll get into what the Wilson say. Now,
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: I don't know if this is a a matter of
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: you know, the FBI and what questions they asked, or
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: you know, these people remembering things differently. I don't know,
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: but we'll get there.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let's see. As they've reached a point approximately in
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: the middle of the block, some five blocks toward the
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: Mississippi River from the Jung Hotel, they observed two young
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: men who were carrying signs which bore pro Cuban inscriptions.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: They had leaflets in their hands. One of the men
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: wore on his front a yellow or orange colored sign
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: which bore as part of its inscription the words Viva
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: the Fidel, and he's referring to oswaldt here. I guess
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: and if you want a visual clue, do you remember
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: the what's that movie with ah ah shahm blanking on
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: his name, Uh die hard, right, Bruce Willis when he
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: went into that neighborhood as a cop and wore that
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: blackard I hate enters. Well, that's kind of how I
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: feel going into New Orleans.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: I could not use the.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but that's but I'm making a point here. I
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: mean like I feel like.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: That result's head on Samuel L. Jackson's body.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like that's like not far off as
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: to the kind of he would get.
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And notice in the language there is multiple points
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: in here where plurals are used, like men not man, men, signs, inscriptions.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, good point one of the men yep. As
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: mister Doyle, mister Wilson and their two sons reached the scene,
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: a group of persons who appeared to be Cubans took
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: issue with the two demonstrators, and almost immediately police officers
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: arrived and prevented trouble. After a short discussion, the demonstrators
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: were placed demonstrators right just here your point ten seconds ago,
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: were placed in a patrol car by the officers and
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: taken from the scene. During the argument, a placard carried
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: by the demonstrator not wearing the sign was smashed and
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: the leaflets were torn from the hands of the men
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: and scattered on the sidewalk. And of course that's what
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: we see in the John T.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: Martin film, all those ye flyers.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, leafless, Yeah, exactly. The pieces of the placard were
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: placed in the patrol car when the men were taken away.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: Motion pictures of the incident were taken by Jim Doyle,
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: fourteen year old son of mister Doyle, following the assassination
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: of President Kennedy. Mister Doyle and other members of his
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: family viewed the film taken into Orleans and were agreed
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: that the pictures of the young man who wore the
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: yellow colored sign strongly resembled photographs they had seen of
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: Lee Harvey Oswalt. Again taken on the Tuesday, November twenty six,
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: sixty three, two days four days after the assassination, two.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: Days after we were killed, Portland, Oregon.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: Yep, yepy by the Portland FBI office. Yes. Right, So
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: now we go to missus Jack j Pat Doyle, Leen, you.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: Will Charlene, you know, sexty Charlene.
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: I think that's probably your first name. But they kind
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: of what is the no. I know that. That's how
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: they used to say it, like, you're not missus Charlene Doyle,
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: your missus.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: Jiffer her own name. Damn it, that's Charlene. Yeah, missus
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: Joe BURRELLI.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: Hey, uh, missus j Pat Doyle advised that she accompanied
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: her husband to New Orleans, Louisiana, in August sixty three,
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: where mister Doyle attended an electrical contractor's convention, making the
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: trip with them with their two children, Jim aged fourteen
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: and Sharon, age eleven.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: Sharon Sharon bro So.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: Asking about Sharon. Okay, so I'm gonna give a little spoilery. Man,
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: your boy called the store today that we were going
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: to get into in a little bit. And I asked,
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: because I heard Jim age fourteen, is not alive anymore.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: I go, is Sharon managing this store? And they go,
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: the Doyles didn't have a daughter. Interesting, we'll get there.
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: I promise. Let's see.
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: Well maybe she passed away before a certain time period.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: That's possible too. I said, are the Doyles still involved
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: in this business? They said, no, it's in a trust.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: I go, how about Sharon? They didn't have a daughter.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: I was like, what so, because I'm looking at FBI documents.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: But this is just some scuffoos on the phone. We'll
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: get there. Accompanying the Doyles to New Orleans where mister
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: and missus Matt Wilson of Portland and their two children,
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: Marcia aged thirteen and Donald age eleven Marsha Yeah, and.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: Little Donald Trump Doyle Wilson.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: Mister Wilson attended the convention with mister Doyle. On the
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: afternoon of Friday, August ninth, sixty three, at about four o'clock,
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: the two families were walking along to Nell Street, some
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: five blocks from the Young Hotel. Missus Doyle, Missus Wilson
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: with theirs were walking approximately a quarter of a block
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: in front. I was wrong, rob of mister Doyle, mister Wilson.
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: I thought they were behind.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought I thought I had read that they
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: were in front. Saw different things. But we'll get there.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: And and about the know the block, they passed two
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: young men who were carrying signs. Again, this is the
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: wife saying there were two. There was another Skufuza person
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: with the rfy Oswald.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: Again this is both the Doyle's husband and wife telling
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: the story right. Yes, even though they were walking in
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: two separate portions of the street caravans, yes, which could
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: account for the guys and the girls seeing two different things.
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: But as you'll see once we get to the Wilson's,
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: their stories match up. So I don't know, it's gonna
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: be a tough one to figure out, but we're gonna, yeah.
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: We will definitely try. One of his men was carrying
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: One of these men was carrying a placard on a stick,
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: and the other were on his front a yellow and
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: orange colored sign which, as part of the wording, said
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: Viva la Fredell. The two men also were carrying leaflets
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: in their hands. Okay, so those are both the Doyle
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: parents or I guess wait, there's a little more. Shortly
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: after the women passed these men. Okay, so the women
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: passed them first, a disturbance started, So they're right in
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: the middle of it, these oils when other individuals who
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: had passed when the women. Shortly after the women passed
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: these men, Yes, a disturbance started with other individuals after
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: she passed Oswald and the Cubans or Oswald and his
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: scuffs a friend, yes, who had the appearance of started
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: when other individuals who had the appearance of Cubans started
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: arguing with the demonstrators. The placard was smashed and the
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: leaflets scattered on the sidewalk. Police officers soon appeared, however,
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: and prevented further trouble. They also placed two young men.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: The two young men in a control car along with
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: the pieces of the placard and took them from the scene. Now, Rob,
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: I'm not aware of anyone else, and if you are,
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: please let me know and educate me of anyone else.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: Arrested with Lee Harvey Oswald on August ninth, nineteen sixty three.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: No, just the three Scafuza Cubans, Mariner Hernandez.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: And Manuel Cruz or something.
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: Right now, Miguel Cruiz, it was Cruiser, wasn't Miguel Cruzky.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: Mgel Cruise, Manuel Miguel Oh, same details matter. Thank you
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: for correcting me, sir.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: As we'll see. There may have been more. They want more,
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: a lot more.
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: During the difficulty, motion pictures were taken of the incident
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: by young Jim Doyle. Since the assassination of President Kennedy,
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: Missus Doyle and her family viewed the pictures taken by
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: her son and had agreed that the demonstrator who wore
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: the yellow colored signs strongly resembled photos they had seen
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: of Lee Harvey Oswald. And of course we just went
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: through those skills and we can confirm it is indeed
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: Lee Harvey Oswald.
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: Now, Joe, I would I would also say it's a
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: little suspicious how fast the cops rolled up on the scene,
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: which again screams to me, this is some kind of
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: a stage thing, right, The fact that John T. Martin
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: is there filming, the fact that this fracas didn't get
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: out of hand because the cops were there immediately, Like, oh,
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: it just so happens. There was a police car driving
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: by when all this shit happened. Maybe, but what are
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: the odds, you know what I'm saying, Like, I mean,
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: there's some there's some odds there immediately, like immediately immediately. Yeah.
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: And then when you consider what Lee allegedly said to
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: Carlos bringing saying, all right, Carlos, come.
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: On, hit me, yeah, like he knew he wouldn't because
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: the cops pulled up, you know, like, let's all go
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: to jail. Hit me, make a better story, hit me, right.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean sometimes some of the toughest people on
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: the surface or people that know what's going to get
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: intervened right away.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: Oh and again you got to remember too that this
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: was probably the second fractice that Oswald was involved in
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: with Cubans, and the first one he kind of got
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: his ass kicked a little bit. He definitely got roughed up.
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: I don't think you have this in the presentation, Joe,
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: but it should be mentioned here. The easterly Yeah, well,
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: you know Oswald wrote that letter on August the first
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: to VT. Lee, okay, talking about an altercation that he
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: had with some Cubans and that the police got involved. Okay, Well,
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: this incident we're talking about here that was filmed by
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: these two boys didn't happen until August ninth. Now, he
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: wrote the letter on August first, It is postmarked. He
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: mailed it at six thirty at night on August the
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: fourth from New Orleans. Again August fourth to August the ninth,
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: This incident still hadn't happened yet. Okay. So it was
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: Oswald again looking into the future and either having knowledge
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: that they were going to try to stage this again
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: to garner some attention, or was he referencing a prior
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: incident and let's just say me and Joe are looking
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: into some other things about this to try to bolster
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: that argument a little bit with supporting evidence. But that
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: is out there and I'll just leave it at that
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: here for now, because we got something big coming up
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: here in a couple of months.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: I'm just saying, yes, we do, Yes, we do. We
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: have some fun things on their arrival here. Sorry. Ye. So,
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: of course, the Doyles were interviewed on November sixth, as
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: is stated at the bottom of this document, the FBI document,
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: it's actually warm commissioned report, the Gibberling Report. I believe
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: it is.
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: Well, that's just documents in the Jimberling report. Yeah, well, no,
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: it was.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: The interview was conducted on the twenty sixth and released
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: on the twenty seventh, from what I could see, And
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: then on the same on the twenty seventh, you have
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: an FBI report two Director Jayagahova from Space Religion in Charge, Portland, Oregon.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: And this is the really interesting thing, Rob Jack. This
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: is the title of this Jack Leon Ruby aka Jack Rubinstein,
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: Lee Harvey Oswald, ak Alec j haydel oh Lee Victims
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: civil rights forwarded under separate cover to the bureau forwarded
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: under separate cover, So their communication about the Doyle film
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: was forwarded under separate cover, as in, like the title
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: wasn't the Doyle film, for example, they kind of I
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: think they tried to hide it under like these general things, right,
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: these general titles. Let me know your thoughts, you can
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: love me.
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: I don't know. It just might have not been in
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: the same package as the paperwork, because I as well,
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: hopefully you have when it comes to the Doyles and
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: how they got their film developed, and what exactly they
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: showed to these to these guys and what what got sent,
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: you know, recommendation wise, I think, and again with the
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: allegations of the film being edited, I think you're right
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: that the film was sent with some other documents and
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: this is just a basically a sanitized version of an
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: accompanying document to the film.
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it might be. I'm not I'm not sure, and
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: I really do hope I have that. I think I do.
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: At approximately four o'clock in the afternoon, it's that same document,
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: the FBI document kind of recapping the Doyles test morning.
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: But don't scope over the last line of that first
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: page there and closed herewith for Dallas are nine copies
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: of FD three O two's incorporating information supplied by mister
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: and missus Doyle. Nine copies. Folks, you don't send nine
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: copies of anything unless it's a little bit of an
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: important Yeah.
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you for pointing out. That's why I
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: am glad you are are watching. At approximately four o'clock
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: in the afternoon on Friday, August nine sixty three, the
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: two families walking on Canal Street in New Orleans when
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: they observed two young men who were carrying pro Cuban
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: signs and distributing leaflets. One carried a placard on a stick.
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: According to young Sharing Doyle, this placard bore the figure
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: statue of Liberty and some such wording as Cuba and chains,
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: and only ninety miles from the US. The other man,
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: possibly Oswalt, was wearing on his front the yellowish or
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: orange color sign which bore the wording quote Viva la Fidel,
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: which we heard from the Doyles and other believed similar
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: to that on the placard. The Jowell family were agreed
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: on the Viva la Fidel. The Doyle said that the
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: demonstration was taking place in the approximate middle of the
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: block on Canal Street, some five blocks towards Mississippi over
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: John Hotel. As the Doyles and Wilson's passed the area,
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: the two demonstrators were quote rushed by eight cubans.
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Let's pause there for a second. Take that in
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: eight cubans, which is five more then we know it?
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, not three, three and eight? Big difference, big difference. Yeah.
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: Who argued vigorously with the two men again, isn't three
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: one one? We have eight on two?
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And trouble appeared imminent continuing. Several police officers arrived
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: on the scene immediately, however, both by car and on foot,
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: and after talking to the two demonstrators for a time,
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: apparently arrested them them, both of them, and placed them, Yeah,
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: and placed them in a patrol car. This, however, was
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: not before the placard on the stick had been smashed
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: and the leaflets scattered on the sidewalk, which in the
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: Martin fill. It was believed by the Doyles that the
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: pieces of the placard were picked up and placed in
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: the police car. Interesting. Mister Doyle commented that the policemen
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: were able to arrive on the scene so hurriedly, apparently
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: because they had been quote keeping an eye end quote
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: on some picketing by Negroes which was taking place across
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: the street a short distance away.
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: Okay, well that kind of explains why the cops were
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: there immediately, but also very convenient.
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, very convenient. And Negroes are different from from Cubans. Yeah,
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: he would say, like picketing by other dark colored folk whatever, Yeah,
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: it's different. The pictures of the incident and the enclosed
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: role of film This is Again November twenty seventh were
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: taken by young Jim Doyle. It was noted that other
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: vacation pictures appear in the role, both before and after
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: the New Orleans incident. Of course, like Jean Martin film, right,
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: like when he went to the zoo and the park
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: and you know, city Hall and all that bullshit. Right,
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: Not everything is Oswald. The pertinent portion of the film
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: occurs immediately following scenes showing Sharon Doyle in front of
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: the statue and a brief view of Missus Doyle standing alone.
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: It ends with the view of what appears to be
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: a warehouse on the river. Yes, that that's the very
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: end of the film. At one point, the individual who
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: is possibly Oswald And it's not possibly Oswald. We know
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: it was. It's very obvious can be seen with his
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: back to the camera. Again, we talked about that. You know,
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: he kind of had his shirt tucked in that kind
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: of looked like a plumber's whatever. Correct, right, we made
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: that joke talking to an officer he is motioning with
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: one hand. Saw that as well. Mister Doyle explained that
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: he apparently wasn't indicating that he had a right to
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: walk on the sidewalk, and that sounds like an argument
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: Lee would make. All right, I can.
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: Sidewalk free speech rights.
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I get a million.
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: Walk.
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: At one point, his yellow sign can be seen. Of
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: course we don't see that sign in the Doyle.
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: Or John T.
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: Martin film, but not deciphered. His companion never appears again,
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: leading credence to things were taken out. And you have
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: to wonder, Rob, why would you take out his companion
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: in these videos unless this companion was an asset or
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: maybe even an agent of yours.
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the film is being forwarded in order that the
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: Bureau may make copies to the pertinent scenes. Bla blah blah.
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: An in a view of the circumstances.
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: Information, however, that it eventually the film be returned to him.
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: Yes, he said, keep it as long as you need,
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: but give it back to me eventually. And this is
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: when Wiseberg comes in a little it was returned to
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: him in sixty four. But he then contacts Wiseberg and says,
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: this isn't the film. I took type of thing, and
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: Wiseberg does like a foia, and it creates a whole
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: other yeah, thing of documents. And then this is This
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: is later that day. This is Matt Wilson. This was
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: the skufuza that was with J. Pat Doyle, also from Oregon.
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: Both men were accompanied by their wives and children. Family
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: consistent of his wife and two children, Marcia and Donald
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: blah blahlah. The location of the entire group with some
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: the same thing. As mister Wilson and his companions reached
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: a point about the nod of the block, they noted
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: a young man who was wearing a yellow colored sign,
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: again corroborating that Oswald was probably wearing a yellow colored
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: sign during this whole thing.
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: I was just carrying a sign.
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. About the time this young man was observed
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: a group of individuals who appeared to be Cuban's approach
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: and took issue with him. Police officers soon arrived prevented trouble.
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: It's kind of worded the same way, and the leafless
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: were tore before being scaret sidewalk. And then you have
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: something from.
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: Real quick go back. Yeah. Now what's missing from this statement, folks,
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: is any mention of two men. There is no mention
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: of men or two men. As you can see, they
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: noted a young man who was wearing a sign, thus
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: sign not signs bore this something and at the time
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: this young man was observed, right, so that there's no plurals,
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: there's no men. There's no two men from mister Wilson
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: as opposed to the Doyles.
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: You know, that's a really good point, Rob, because we
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: know that the Doyles were interviewed on eleven twenty six, right,
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: the Wilsons, and I didn't include his wife's thing in
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: here because it's gone the same thing. We're interviewed the
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: day after. But if you look on the bottom right
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: and quarter date dictated was two days later.
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: Well that's what's interesting because his wife, her FBI statement
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: also does not mention two men signs, no plurals, no men.
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: But again you had the women walking together. So you
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: have missus Doyle saying there was two guys. You have
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: missus Wilson saying there was one. And then you have
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: mister Wilson and mister Doyle walking together, and mister Doyle
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: says there are two guys. Right, his daughter Sharon said
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: there are two guys and she was walking with the ladies.
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: But mister Wilson says there was one guy. So it's
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: very odd, very odd.
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: And I think rob like it wasn't dictated until the
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: twenty ninth, so it makes me think like they're trying
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: to get their ducks in a row by this point.
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: To watch the film figure out, oh shit, Luke, he's
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: in here with Lee. We need to trim this down
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: a little bit. And then they transcribed the Wilson's interview
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: and eliminated all mention of plurals men's you know, and
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: being one man, one sign, three humans, not eight, you
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: know that kind of thing.
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: Like right, exactly, Yeah, and and listen, they had a
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: couple more days to kind of get their ducks in
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: a row.
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: And yeah, because at about the same time, Joe really
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: in Minnesota, Right, you have kind of the same thing
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: going on with the Martin film right about the same time.
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I think John Martin gave the film or
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: contract the FBI when he got back from military school,
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: like early December. Some of this would have been a
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: week or two before that.
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: Maybe I don't know. I'd have to go back and
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: look at the documents.
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but but like, but that's the thing, like that
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: they don't know exactly what loose ends to tie up
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: in the early days of this ship, right.
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Obviously it was bad enough whoever this other person
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: was with Oswald to be like, all right, at this point,
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: this motherfucker has to be a lone nut. Okay, we
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: can't have him with this person, especially or especially with
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: this person, you know, whoever this person was. Yeah, because
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: it was it would have created ways too many more
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: questions that they couldn't answer or maybe didn't want to answer.
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think didn't want to answer. I mean, I
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: think it would be perfect to interview the Wilsons and
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: have them kind of confer addict what the Doyle said
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: so they could be like, we don't know what's going
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: on type of thing.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: Was there one?
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: Was there two? This is an FBI report, This is
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: not an interview with like a transcript transcript of the interview, right,
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: so they can kind of dictate what the report said.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: It wasn't for public consumption really.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: Right, It's crazy, man, We're getting there, We're getting there.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: So I also found it interesting that it was dictated
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: two days later twenty seven, twenty ninth, because this was
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: dictated one day later.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: Well you figure, you know, they talked to the Doyles,
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: and they got their story, and then they mentioned that
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: Wilson's were with them, so then they had to track
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: down to Wilson's, right and you know, talk to them
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: and then so yeah, it makes sense.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but but like what better strategy than to like
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: have their uh like details of their description like go
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: against each other, right, to be like, we don't know
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: what's going on type of thing.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: Everything more confusing, right exactly because at the point that
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: they took to Doyle's testimony or interview or whatever, they
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: hadn't seen the film yet. You know, I'm sure the
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: interview takes place and then the film's handed over, right,
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: so at that point, you know, who is who is
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: this other guy with him?
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: Who?
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, who knows couldn't be it could be nothing,
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: couldn't could be not a big deal, could be some
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: skafuzza like he hired to hand out, you know, pamphlets
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: like Charles Steele guy or whatever. You know that's actually
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: no with no affiliation. Then they watched the film and
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: they were like, oh shit, this guy somebody with some.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: Of some affiliation, right right right, And and I have
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: to cover up that.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: By the end, the reports are made type of.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: Thing, and you know, now we have to fix those reports.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but let's talk to the Wilsons and we'll kind
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: of change the narrative a little bit.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you really don't even need
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: the wilsons testimony at this point. I mean, I guess
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: they could corroborate some stuff, but.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: I can't say the FBI didn't do their due diligence. Joe.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: That's true. As mister Wilson and his companion has reached
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: a point about the middle of the block, they know
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: it's the young man who has worked mean this.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: Ready, Yeah, because we pointed out that it's singing young
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: man man one.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so then why burg So we're talking late
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: nineteen sixty three. Some of this is in the warrant
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: Commission in the Gamberling report. But then you have Wiseburg
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: doing kind of like a Foyer sending an email or
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: message to the Deputy Attorney General and this is the
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: Justice Department, and or I guess that's from the Attorney
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: General to the FBI. It's hard to read.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: But mister Wiseberg, when the course of doing his his
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: Foyer request on the Martin film, I believe he was
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: he was also.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: You know, he lumped them in. No, No, you're right. No,
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: he said, I want these films of the assassination. I
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: want the Doyle film, I want the Martin film, I
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: want this, I want that. He loved it together, right, Yeah,
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: but I'm saying, like.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: You know, he probably received some documents on both films,
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: you know, I would guess or he saw a reference
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: to this in the in in the Commission documents the
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: Doyle film, and upon seeing the Martin film and hearing
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: John T. Martin's description of also there being somebody with Oswaldt.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: This is what ignited the fire under Wiseberg's ball sack.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: They had a heart on to try to figure out
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: who this other guy was. That's why they were so
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: hyper fixated on this part of the Martin film and
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: not the fact that it just showed General Walker, you know,
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: and shots from the inside of his house, when the
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: same film that the guy who would later be accused
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: of shooting at Walker is on the exact same role
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: of film, which again, in the odds of that are
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: astronomically impossible. Yes, so they didn't put two and two together.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: Back then, they were hyper fixated about figuring out who
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: the other person was with Oswald, which led Wiseberg to
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: get his hands on the Martin film, which he did
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: and straight from the source, and then he wanted to
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: try to get this other film because it captured the
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: exact same thing from a different angle. I can just
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: imagine his disappointment when he finally did see the Doyle
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: film and were like, shit, there's nothing here.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, but I don't know if there's nothing here,
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, there are some scuffoozes there that shown. No,
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: of course, yes, it's not definitive. So I think this
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: is from Wiseberg, although this is a document, I think
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: DOJ document referring to Wiseberg's requests asked for all quote,
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: film and relative reports of L. H. Oswald's literature, distribution
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: and arrest in New Orleans eight sixty three, taken by
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: Jim Doyle, John Martin WDSU TV and w something on
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: all TV photographers and by an unknown person Prince of WDSU.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: Film made to show third band assistant Oswalt. Now we
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: don't have two, we have three, rob as further described
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: an attacked letter. In addition, mister Wyburg requests quote all
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: reports on of or about an interviews with James Powell
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: Army Intelligence. Okay, we did go over that a few
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: shows ago, although it's not really relevant to this. The
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: circumstances concerning the taking of pictures in New Orleans on
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: August ninety sixty three by Jim Doyle, the fourteen year
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: old son of j. Pat Doyle of Portland, Oregon, are
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: set out in Commission Documents six and thirty. The film
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: contained a few shots of Oswal at the time of
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: his arrest, but it also contained personal pictures of the
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: due party and like he wants it back after they're
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: domb type of thing. Fast forward to the HSCA. Wiseberg
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: is still kind of going at this here. Wiseberg's formal
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: request asked for film and relevant reports of L. H.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: Oswald's literature distributionis actually I might just this actually might
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: be the same thing. So then let me see if
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: there's anything good here, all right. So the next thing
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: I have here, it's more of the same. The next
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: thing I have here is the ARB stuff, and I'll
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: let you talk about that, and I'll kind of bring
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: it up that as you talk about it.
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: All right. So yeah, here's where things kind of take
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: an interesting turn, because there's only so much we can
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: do with an incomplete film, and allegations from both of
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: them that they're films were edited, and we get this
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: from Wisburg when it comes to the Martin film, and
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: then we get to an interesting uh, let's just say
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: phone conversation. Fast forward to the A r r B
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: done by David Montague, one of the uh I guess
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: investigators for the Assassination Records and Review Board, because they're
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: they're looking for a copy of the Doyle film because shocker,
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: I don't believe there was one at Nara, Joe. It's
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: because the FBI didn't turn over their copy that they
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: supposedly made of the Doyle film to Nara, which is
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 2: a problem and makes you wonder why.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: And all of that are man.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: So we have here a letter to Jeremy gunn dated
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: October the first, nineteen ninety six were smack dab in
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: the middle of the AARRB TIS based on a previous
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 2: conversation with Doyle Junior and Thomas Samlak, for which Nara
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: provided the tip. I called Doyle to inquire about his
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: information regarding the assassination, his film of Oswald, and any
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: other records that he may have for the JFK collection.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: Doyle said he had a film of Oswald in New Orleans,
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: showing him passing leaflets on castro. He was cordial and
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: said that he would like to donate the film to
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: the collection, but he would first like to know more
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: about us and what we're doing here. He would also
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: like to ensure safe passage for his materials to the archives.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: I described the work of the review Board and describe
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 2: the archival facilities for film material at the Archives. Two.
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 2: I told him that I would explain the deed of
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: gift process after we further discussed his potential donation the film.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: In nineteen sixty three, Doyle lived in Oregon with his family.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: His father, James Pat Doyle SENA, was the head of
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: the National Electrical Contractors Association now Joe.
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: Just to.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: Point this out here, this is the first time that
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: we are actually hearing from Jim Doyle, the guy who
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: actually shot the film. For some reason, the FBI didn't
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: talk to him, but they talked to his eleven year
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 2: old sister. Okay. Although Doyle was fourteen at the time
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 2: of the assassination, he remembers many of the details from
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 2: his trip to New Orleans. The Doyle family went sightseeing
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: on either August twentieth or twenty second, nineteen sixty three
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: during the convention. Now, of course, his dates here are
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: extremely fucked up, because we know the incident happened on
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: August ninth, right, Okay, Yeah, Doyle remembers thinking that New
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: Orleans was wilder than Oregon, which he'd expected. A lot
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: of kfuses in New Orleans, Young Jim, leave that you're
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: dodging David Ferries all day downtown?
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: What? Yeah? That that.
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: Damn like the wild, wild Gay West back then. Using
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 2: an eight elemeter Bell and Howe movie camera with a
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: hand crank and Codak and Kodak film, Doyle filmed people
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: and scenery. During their sight scene. Doyle filmed a man
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: singular passing out yellow procastro flyers and a group of
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: approximately seven to eight adult males. Again, we have this
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: giant number, seven or eight adult males approaching the leafletter.
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 2: Now here's where it gets interesting, folks. One of these
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: adult males pulled a stiletto or long knife on the
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 2: leafletter and threatened him. No shit. Now, this is the
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: first time we are here of a knife being brought
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: to a fracas.
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: I've never heard of that before.
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 2: You know, he approached the leaf litter began questioning the
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: people involved, or the police approached the leaf litter and
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: began questioning the people involved and arrested the leaf litter. Again,
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: a lot of singular affects here. A crowd of approximately
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: forty people watched on. As the crowd dispersed, Doyle filmed
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: the crowd for a few moments while he was walking
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 2: backwards with his back to the sun. When he returned
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: from the convention, he mailed the film to Glendale, California,
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 2: Kodak Developing Center for Processing. Now, like I told you
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 2: at the beginning of all this, on November twenty third,
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 2: nineteen sixty three, the family was watching television as Jack
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: Ruby shot Oswald at the DPD again his dates are
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: a little fuzzy here because that didn't happen until the
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: next day, on the twenty fourth. But we won't we
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: won't hold that against young Jim.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he was fourteen.
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: Doyle's younger sister, Sharon. Sharon mentioned that Oswald resembled the
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: Leafletter who was arrested in New Orleans. The Doyle family
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 2: watched the film to verify the resemblance, and Doyle's father,
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 2: who Doyle described as a quote patriotic American, called the
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: Portland FBI office immediately to report the film. The FBI
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: sent two agents to the Doyle home that day to
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: view the film. After viewing it, they said they'd like
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: to borrow it for further study. Doyle believes the agents
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 2: provided the family with a receipt, and after several months,
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 2: Doyle's father requested that the FBI return the film, but
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: the FBI did not return the film. Now, this directly
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: contradicts FBI documents that we have that say that their
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: film was returned to them in late January of nineteen
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 2: sixty four, around the same time that the Martin film
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: was returned to John T. Martin. Okay, Now, did it
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: just get lost in the mail or was young Jim
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 2: just not privy to the FBI sending the film back,
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 2: and his parents got it and took it, never told him, probably,
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: but in Jim's eyes, he never got his film back.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: Let's see, after several more years, Doyle retained attorney Richard
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 2: Senders to attempt to retrieve the film from the FBI. Now,
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 2: this says the family didn't recover the film until sometime
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: in the early to mid nineteen seventies. So we have
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 2: an FBI report specifically stating that they returned the film
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 2: to the family at the end of January nineteen sixty four.
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 2: Yet we have the Doyles saying that they never got
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 2: their film back, and they even hired an attorney, Richard
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 2: Senders named the Guy, and they finally got the film
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: back sometime in the early to mid seventies when the
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 2: Triple B was just a young, slobbering, burping, farting baby.
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 2: Way in nineteen seventy four, after several more years, I'm sorry,
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 2: we're there, Uh, the family recovered the film. Yeah, okay. However,
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: the Doyle family viewed the film they retrieved from the FBI,
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: and they discovered that the film was not the same
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 2: as they remembered it. The family noted the following differences. Joe, yes,
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 2: number one.
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: Uh Rob, just give me thirty seconds. I'll be right back.
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: Just continue reading. I'm sorry, I will thirty seconds. Thank you.
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: Nobody can see you. Number one. The retrieved film makes
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: Doyle's view appear to be much further away than before,
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: which would lead you to believe that somehow some aspect
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: ratio of the film had been changed as far as
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: as far as formatting. Now, we did see the same
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 2: kind of thing with the John T. Martin film. Although
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 2: the aspect recue was changed, it was kind of the
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 2: opposite where the image was enlarged and it kind of
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 2: cropped out other things that should have been there. When
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 2: compared to earlier versions of the Martin film, which we
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 2: showed in our Martin presentation number two. The before film,
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 2: the one they originally gave to the FBI, was approximately
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 2: two and a half minutes long, and the retrieved film
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 2: only lasted approximately he says, approximately forty five to fifty seconds.
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 2: But as we have it here and you saw it, folks,
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 2: that film is literally thirty one seconds long.
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: So I think less. I think like twenty seven seconds.
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 2: At some point at least two minutes of the film
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 2: had been cut out, and as we heard from Jim Doyle,
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 2: even after the police showed up and they're walking away,
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 2: he continued to film with his back to the son
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: while he's walking backwards down the street, and we see
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 2: none of that in the film. Doyle's father, pissed off
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 2: about the differences, later contacted the Glendale, California Processing Center.
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 2: A representative he doesn't remember who told Doyle's father that
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 2: the processing center did not have the negatives because the
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 2: FBI had confiscated them on or around eleven twenty three,
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 2: sixty three, the same day the FBI took the out
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 2: of camera original film from the Doyle family in Oregon.
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: Now why is this important? Well, I would imagine Joe
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 2: that when you your film away to be processed into
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 2: some format that you would be able to watch on
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: your home projector, right, Because I mean it would seem
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 2: to me, at least unless they had an old ass
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 2: camera right that you know, one could shoot the film
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 2: and then your projector could play the film. Right, you
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 2: wouldn't need to send it away, you know what I'm saying,
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 2: unless it had to be split kind of like zapruiters,
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 2: you know, where it was sixteen millimeters and it had
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 2: to be split down to eight. And maybe they had
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: a certain size projector maybe they had to get the
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 2: film format into a different size.
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 2: I this is above my pedigree and pay grade.
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: But yeah, that's exactly what I was going to say.
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 2: It was at some point, you know, maybe unless you
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 2: specifically requested it, you know, the place that processed your
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 2: your shit, like kept your old shit and sent you
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 2: what you wanted, right, so instead of sending you back
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 2: some worthless negatives that you you know, you didn't need
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 2: because you had a finished film that you could watch
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 2: at that point. It's interesting to note that the Kodak
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 2: place in Glendale, California, that is not int Why am
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 2: I back?
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: I don't know you froze, right, Froze.
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 2: It doesn't one of us froze.
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: One of us froze. Okay, it does not matter who.
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 1: But yes, I was getting your point as to why
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: they would send it to Glendale, California instead of Portland, Oregon.
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 2: Well maybe that was the closest processing center. I get it.
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 2: But the FBI does have resources. They could have called
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 2: their Los Angeles division and been like, hey, get your
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 2: ass over to Kodak and Glendale and get these motherfuckers negatives, right,
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 2: because whatever was on this film, whatever was edited out
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 2: of this film, must have been important enough for them
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 2: to do that the same day they saw the film. Yeah,
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 2: that's important. They didn't do it a month later. They
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 2: did it the same day because they showed up at
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 2: the Door's house, they watched the film, they turned it
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 2: over to him, and as soon as they left the
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 2: Door's house, they were probably like, uh, we better call
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 2: and telling them to go get the negatives for the
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 2: ship because we got to clamp down right right.
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And this is all as they're trying to like,
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: you know, get their story straight, you know. Yeah, a
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: bunch of people are calling, you know, whether it's Doyle,
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: who I think was completely random, or or John T.
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: Martin a little later, they all had to like make
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: this shit fucking vibe with each other, you know what
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: I mean.
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And it wasn't just the Doyle film that was edited.
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 2: It wasn't just the Martin film that was edited. W
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 2: DSU had footage of this apparently as well, and their
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 2: footage was edited.
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: Right, so right, which is why Weisberg included them as well. Yeah,
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: and there's whatever foya or whatever is called back then.
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 2: So whoever Oswald was with this day acting as a
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 2: pro castro supporter had to be significant. It had to
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 2: be somebody we know, you know.
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: That's what it seems to me. If it was some
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: random scuffuza, why why cover it up?
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, nobody would care.
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: No, one won't care.
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 2: It would be like, like you said, like Charles Steele,
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 2: you know the guy he paid like whatever, twenty five
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 2: cents or whatever to help him hand out that was leafless,
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 2: And they were trying to figure out who this guy was,
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 2: if he's part of the fair player, if you keep
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 2: a committee, if he's one of Oswald's buddies, and he's
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 2: just like, No, I was hanging out with the post
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 2: office and he offered me a dollar to hand this
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 2: shit out. I'm like, okay, easy money.
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and not even someone like like Thomas Beckham, Like,
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: why even protect him from that shit? Like he's not
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: even an important skafooza. I don't know, man, I don't know.
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 1: The only thing I can come up.
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 2: With, he's a lot of shit. He never said he
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 2: was handing out leafless without.
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 1: Did he say he had a coke with him after
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: the trademark.
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 2: Well, that was two different instances. That's at the trademark
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 2: where he's handing out leafless.
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: It's like the sixteenth or twenty first. I know it's
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: not this instance.
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 2: It's not this incident.
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: I know it. I'm saying, yeah, okay.
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 2: Sometime later, Doyle couldn't be more specific. People started hounding
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 2: him for access to the film on a regular basis. Hello,
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 2: Harold Wiseberg, Hellt Goden. He believes that his name may
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 2: have been mentioned in a book on the assassination, perhaps
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 2: the Four Days Book. He has been contacted relentlessly by
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 2: Robert Grodin, Gary Mack, and Jim Garrison. Doyle refused to
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 2: let Mac borrow the film because he could not guarantee
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 2: its return.
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 2: Of course, at this time, I think pre nineteen nineties,
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 2: Gary Mack was a conspiracy researcher. I've worked with people
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 2: like Jack White and Jim Mars and other local Texas researchers.
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 2: It wasn't until he joined the Sixth Floor Museum that
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 2: he kind of changed his stripes over to the dark side,
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 2: if you will.
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: But we know.
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 2: That, of course, the sixth four Museum was trying to
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 2: get their hands on every film associated with the Kennedy assassination,
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 2: and to this day, Joe correct me if I'm wrong.
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 2: They do not have the rights to the Doyle film,
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 2: like it is not available on their site. It was
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 2: never turned over to them.
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, not to my knowledge.
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 2: No, yeah, because we had trust me. I had to
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 2: scour the darkest corners of the Internet to find the
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 2: Doyle film that I showed you earlier. And I wasn't
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 2: paying six hundred dollars to remove the watermark. Right.
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 1: It's not a film that you could just put in
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 1: a YouTube. Actually, our friend Alex Harris has it up
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: JFK theorists. But other than that, like you won't be
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: able to find it. I just want to say good night.
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: I guess the Double B is heading in early good
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 1: not everyone.
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 2: Bless you and peace for the super chats and the
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 2: memberships gifted, much appreciated brother, Thank you sir. Yes, yes,
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 2: your Friday.
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: Yes we'll talk to you soon. But yeah no, no,
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: I agree, all right.
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 2: So Doyle refused to let mac barrow the film because
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 2: he couldn't guarantee its return. He also offered to fly
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 2: the film to Dallas if Mac bought his ticket, but
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 2: Mac did not wish to do this, Doyle decided to
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 2: visit a company named Photo Art in Portland, Oregon, which
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 2: was able to transfer eight millimeter frames into still pictures. Joe, Yeah,
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 2: Doyle made at least one of all the frames particular
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 2: of particular people, such as the Cubans l h O.
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 2: Here's where it gets weird. Lho's brother, the police officer,
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 2: the crowd X. What the actual fuck is going on here?
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 2: Now we know that it wasn't John Pike right with him,
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 2: and we can probably infer that it wasn't Robert Oswald
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 2: with him for sure.
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 1: Right right they had they had not seen each other,
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 1: as we discussed.
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 2: Or maybe I well, of course they can say that,
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 2: but what are they What are the chances that Robert
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 2: Oswald is leaving his job and his family to come
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 2: scufoos around New Orleans with his brother Lee almost zero
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 2: and carry some kind of chance fucking sign down the street?
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, almost like point zero zero zero zero one.
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 2: So what's interesting? Why would he say l h O's
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 2: brother inferring that it could possibly be somebody that really
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 2: looked a lot like Lee Harvey Oswald Joe, Okay, what
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 2: are your thoughts there? Well, I have a lot of them,
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 2: because when you think about people that resembled Lee Harvey
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 2: Oswald in nineteen sixty three around that time, certain people
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 2: come to mind. Of course Larry Crayford being one. But
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 2: of course, of course we don't have Larry Craiford. We
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 2: can't ever put Larry Crayford in New Orleans and not
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 2: even in that part of the country until mid October
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 2: of sixty three, and that's in Dallas, So maybe take
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 2: him off the books, right, Yeah, Now, what other person
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 2: in your mind, Joe, that Lee Harvey Oswald is acquainted with,
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 2: who would actually do something like this with Lee Harvey Oswald.
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 2: Now we know it wasn't somebody older like George de
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 2: Morin Shield or somebody like that, right right, But think
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 2: a little later, somebody that he would go to these
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 2: right wing evince w Oh, you got.
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: Me there, I mean you jogged my memory. That would
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 1: be mister Michael of the Pain.
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 2: Yes, now he did in nineteen sixty three. If Joe
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 2: can pull up a picture of Michael Payne in nineteen
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 2: sixty two, workout he did resemble Lee Harvey Oswald and
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 2: could probably have passed for his brother. But again, this
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 2: is nineteen sixty three, okay, and a lot of folks
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 2: kind of looked the same. They kind of dressed the same,
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 2: they wore their hair the same, they were clean shaven,
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 2: they were skinny. So even in your brain, you can
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 2: associate some of the people who were around this guy's
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 2: office a little bit when you think about the Campbell brothers,
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 2: when you think about David Lewis, people like that, David
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 2: Lewis kind of looked a little bit like Lee Harvey
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 2: Oswald as well. Don't know what the Campbell brothers looked like,
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 2: but there was a bunch of other young dudes, if
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 2: you will, around.
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 1: And.
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 2: Even carlos Kiroga could maybe have passed because he doesn't
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 2: he didn't really look full on Cuban like. He was
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 2: more like a white looking Cuban a little older than
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 2: Lee Harvey Oswald. But again, I'm trying to think of
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 2: people who were around Lee Harvey Oswald or could have
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 2: possibly been around him at this time.
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 1: And we know that.
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 2: Kroga was for sure showing up at his house, maybe
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 2: bringing in flyers, trying to join the Fair Play for
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 2: Cuba committee. Is it out of the realm of possibility
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 2: that he would have marched down the fucking street with
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 2: the sign just to try to infiltrate. For me, it's
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 2: not out of the realm of possibility. But there you
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 2: have Michael Payne, and there's other fighters out there that
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 2: look even more so. Lay at a glance, yep.
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 1: I have this one here, I'll make that one. Actually
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 1: I think this was his portal Texas history.
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's walking through the Dallas police station, right.
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 1: Which would be almost exactly you know, in the fall
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 1: of sixty three, right, right.
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 2: But now, of course we know Michael Payne lived in Texas,
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 2: but Ruth Payne traveled to New Orleans a couple times
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 2: in the summer of nineteen sixty three. So what could
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 2: have prevented Michael Payne from coming to visit Lee in
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 2: New Orleans at that time in nineteen sixty three. Yeah,
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 2: because at this time you must remember that Lee is
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 2: not working a job. He's kafoozing around, right, He's doing
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 2: this kind of like provocateur ship right like later on
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 2: in September, after he moves back to Dallas. Well after that,
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 2: you know you have these things where you know he
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 2: was supposedly with Michael Payne at the General Walker's speech
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 2: and a CLU speech, the whole m at like Stevenson thing,
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 2: you know, who knows, Yeah, you know, Michael, Michael Payne
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 2: to me comes across as somebody who would get off
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 2: on doing dumb ship like this, kind of like Lee would,
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 2: you know, being a provocateur and then going you know,
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 2: after the fact, you know, sitting around laughing about it.
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 1: You know, he was a Trotsky, right, which is like
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 1: I don't even know like how to describe it really,
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 1: but from communists, Yeah, it's like a weird in between.
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 1: And I always thought that Ruth was sent to keep
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 1: an eye on Marina and Michael was sent to keep
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 1: an eye or given the task of keeping an eye
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 1: on Lee, and maybe that's why they were separated. Of course,
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 1: they'd been separating back and forth for months and maybe
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 1: a year at this point, right towards like the end
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 1: of sixty two, and de Morgil talks about that, but
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 1: I see it as not far off, you know what
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 1: I mean. And they were definitely at that Walker meeting
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 1: that's pretty accepted like within the community. I think it
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 1: was the day before the ad list Evenson thing or
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 1: the day after one of.
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 2: Those two uh yeah, turn turn brings up a good point.
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 2: Maybe it was Thornley again, another guy that looked like
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 2: Oswald that we know was in New Orleans. Definitely knew him.
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 2: He definitely would do some dumb ship like this. You know,
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 2: he's about half a fucking nutball. Uh yeah, good call
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 2: to hering.
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, good god, that's a good one. I mean Thornley
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 1: looked kind of I.
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 2: Don't think Fairy could pass for Ordine Andrews could pass
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 2: for Lee Harvey, Oswald's brother. But you know, no, no,
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 2: but it gets weirder.
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 1: So not only do we have that, it gets weirder.
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 2: So again, let me reiterate, Doyle made at least one
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 2: of all the frames particular people such as the Cubans,
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 2: l h O. L h O's brother, the police officer,
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 2: the crowd, etc. Now, after Doyle sent the stills to
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 2: Gary Mack and others, he received information from them regarding
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 2: some of the people seen within the film. And this
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 2: is the course coming from the eagle eyed researchers who
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 2: were pouring over these stills with monocle in hand. Doyle
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 2: was told and he will look for the document are
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 2: e his source that the person who approached Oswald with
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 2: the knife or stiletto was a CIA operative, Joe interesting,
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 2: and that several people in the crowd were FBI agents.
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 2: He doesn't remember the source, but he had heard that
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 2: Groden obtained a copy of the film from the FBI
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 2: for thirty bucks, and that Groden wrote about the film
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 2: in one of his books without Doyle's permission. Shocker, yes,
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 2: And who knows where Groden got his copy of the
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 2: Doyle film, which, of again we can't find who Goroden
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 2: can't find to this day. So apparently whoever had the
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 2: knife was identified as a CIA operative, a Cuban CIA operative,
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 2: because that's what group of seven or eight Cubans rolled
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 2: up on Oswald. Right, So who do we know, Joe
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 2: It we're CIA operatives in New Orleans. And who happened
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 2: to be at the courthouse and captured on film at
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 2: the courthouse the next day when Lee Oswald shows up
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 2: in court.
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 1: Okay, well, uh m hm, we definitely have Carlos Brignier,
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 1: of course is the obvious one.
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 2: Well, I wouldn't say he's a CIA Okay, Okay, we
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 2: have a million. Then we have Arnesto Rodriguez, Ernesto, his brother, Emilio,
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 2: his father.
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 1: Yes, and Frank Bartz Yes, I got it. Yeah, Oh wow,
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 1: good jobs, lucky guess.
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 2: So one of them scaffoz is one of them four
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 2: actually pulled a knife, right.
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 1: I never heard of this before before research this episode.
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 2: So now this kind of of all makes sense. If
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 2: you add all these kuffuzes together, then you're up to
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 2: seven or eight cubans.
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 1: How many scuffs? How many scuffooses make up a Cuban?
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 2: You got to bring a crew of three and you
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 2: got the CIA operative crew of four.
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 1: How many scaffuses make up a Cuban?
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 2: One? They're one for one.
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 1: I know it was kind of a trick joke question,
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 1: but yes.
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 2: So and then you know, why else would these guys
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 2: be at the courthouse if they weren't arrested as well?
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 2: You see what I'm saying. They just didn't show up
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 2: to take in the sites, you know what I mean.
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 2: So things are kind of falling into place with a narrative,
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 2: especially if you throw in the fact that also, uh
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 2: where were we Yes, several people in the crowd were
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 2: FBI agents.
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 2: These were supposedly identified by eagle eyed researchers, you know,
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 2: with their with their monocles on, right, which.
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 1: Is what Wiseberg and uh and Shorner tried to identify.
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 1: Like the guy like, there's a bunch of people in
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 1: these white hats, right, they're like these white like circle hats.
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 1: Kind of I don't know how to explain it.
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 2: But maybe he knew it, and maybe why Lee asked
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 2: to talk to to the FBI, to somebody, yeah you
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 2: see what I'm saying. Yeah, I mean, your balls get
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 2: a lot more bigger, right, if you're doing something at
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 2: the behest or on behalf of the FBI, you know,
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 2: if you're an FBI informant and you're doing this to
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 2: kind of guard information, they're like, don't worry, dude, we
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 2: got you back. We're watching. We ain't gonna let it
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 2: happen to you. Which is why he's like, hey, oh
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 2: you got a knife, come on, hit me, Carlos, canna
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 2: stab me. You know, he's talking shit because he knows
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 2: nothing's gonna happen because the fucking cops are right there
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 2: and the FBI is right fucking there too. But once
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 2: the New Orleans PD arrests him, the FBI kind of
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 2: has to sink back into the shrubbery like Homer Simpson,
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 2: and then maybe Oswald's sitting in jail like, man, fuck this,
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 2: I'm doing this for the I want to talk to
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 2: somebody from the FBI, please, Right.
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 1: He gets fed up and has to request about that.
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 2: And they come in and talk to him and say, look, dude, uh,
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 2: you know, we'll go through all the formality bullshit and
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 2: this and that, but you know you're just gonna have
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 2: to take this one.
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 1: Take this for the team.
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is not a big serious offense, you know,
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 2: just whatever, go through the motions, get out of it,
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 2: and we'll figure it out after that. I don't know.
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 2: I'm just spitballing here right now. On the thirtieth anniversary
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 2: of the assassination, that would be nineteen and ninety three.
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 2: Joseph Okay, one year before this letter, in contact with
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 2: Doyle by the ARB.
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 1: Your boy was seven years old.
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 2: I canna say how old I was, Doyle. Let the
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 2: BBC that's the Big Black Cocks, or the British Broadcast
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 2: in conjunction with PBS that's the public or Pubic Broadcasting System,
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 2: borrow a v HS tape copy for the special. Now,
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 2: for some reason, Doyle didn't actually give him a copy
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 2: of the film itself. At some point he had had
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 2: it transferred or copies transferred to VHS, and this is
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 2: what he sent to BBC and PBS because in the film,
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 2: I know the PBS version, you know, like who was Lee,
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 2: Harvey Oswald or whatever? That that that that special that
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 2: they did, they included footage of the Martin film, right.
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 2: But Doyle again took the film to Photo Art, but
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 2: they were unable to transfer it to broadcast quality VHS tape.
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 2: That is why the Doyle film does not appear in
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 2: those specials.
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 1: HM.
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 2: I find that hard to believe, because again from the
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 2: stills that we see in the actual movie, to me,
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 2: that was pretty damn decent quality. But maybe once you
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 2: transferred to VHS it turns into dodo. I don't know,
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 2: I don't know now. Doyle then goes to say that
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 2: he trusted a man named John, doesn't remember his last name,
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 2: who worked at Photo Art, and he allowed John to
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 2: carry the actual film to Seattle, Washington for transfer to
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 2: a proper quality broadcast ready tape. The production company compensated
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 2: Doyle and John for their efforts. The film was copyrighted
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 2: in Doyle's name. The film is now stored in a
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 2: safe deposit box at an Oregon bank, and Doyle has
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 2: the following items in the safe deposit box. Number one
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 2: Joe the origine, well not the original, but the eight
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 2: millimeter film returned to him by the FBI depicting the
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 2: events or some of the events that he filmed in
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 2: August of nineteen sixty three. And he has left approximately
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 2: three or four of the still photos made at Photo Art. Now,
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 2: remember he apparently got stills made of each of the
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 2: frames of the film that he got back, so thirty
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 2: seconds worth of film. That's a lot of stills for
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 2: every stream, and multiples of those as he sent those
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 2: out to researchers. So he only has three or four
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 2: still photos left that were made at Photo Art. Number
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 2: three documentation about researchers who had contacted him and who
• 1:48:58
  Speaker 2: he had given stills two. Number four documentation about all
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 2: the FBI contacts with them, and the film that was
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 2: collected by his attorney in pursuits to get his film
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 2: back from the FBI in the nineteen seventies.
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 1: Was that like Senders? That was that guy Senders? Yeah?
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 2: Okay, After I explained the deed of gift protruder off
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 2: your MI. After I explained the deed of gift procedures,
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 2: Doyle agreed to deed all of his material to the
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 2: JFK Collection so that it will be properly preserved for history. However,
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 2: Doyle wants to ensure that the film will really make
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 2: it to Washington, d C. Given his earlier negative experiences
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 2: with the film, so he's not even trusting the ARB
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 2: at this point. He's like, I don't trust none of
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 2: you government motherfuckers. Right, you've done fucking my film. You
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 2: give me back some bullshit, right, you cut a bunch
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 2: of stuff out of it. You know, now you want
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 2: it again, right, he says. I offered to pick it
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 2: up from his house, and I told him I would
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 2: check on some possibilities for transfer of the film and
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 2: would contact him in about a week so he would
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 2: have time to review the information on the review board
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 2: that I'm sending him. I suggested that in the interest
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 2: of time, it might be your best to arrange for
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 2: a transfer now using an official receipt from Washington, and
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 2: then proceed with execution of a deed of gift, which
• 1:50:40
  Speaker 2: may take several months, and Doyle seemed amenable to this idea.
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 2: I reviewed the above information with him and thanked him
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 2: for his time. Recommendations. I recommend that we asked Doyle
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 2: to provide a copy of his videotape of the film
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 2: and copies of some of its documentation to determine whether
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 2: a trip to his home is warranted or not, and
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 2: then to give some personal information here Joe like my
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 2: dressed in his phone number. Yes, and the fact that
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 2: he owns a pet store named C. B Tropical, which.
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 1: I called earlier today. Yes, and I did cut that
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 1: off the info after Doll siggers info.
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, I tracked down some things such as where
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 2: Doyle was living in nineteen ninety four, okay at the
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 2: time of this banter back and forth with the A
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 2: R R B. And this is his house, very modest,
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 2: rancher to car garage, right, got a nice Toyota in
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 2: the of course, that's more recent. This is this was
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 2: taken in July of this year. I that Jewell's nice
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 2: Toyota in nineteen ninety four. But the house, yes, the
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 2: house is the same ish. Yeah, I'm sure it's been
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 2: fixed up. I mean the yard looks nice and roof
• 1:52:18
  Speaker 2: you're paining job on the side. You know, probably was
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 2: a rundown shithole in nineteen ninety four, I would assume.
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 2: But I'm just guessing here. I don't know I'm talking
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 2: out of me ours here, But uh so, Joe, I
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 2: got into my time, my time, Sheeman DeLorean, and I
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 2: went back to nineteen ninety four, the year nineteen ninety
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 2: four in Portland, Oregon, and I found the CB Tropical Aquarium.
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 2: Oh wow, this is its address as it was given
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety four, So this is what it looked like.
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 2: And the goddamn mailman truck is in the fucking way.
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 1: But fucking usps.
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you can tell just by looking at the sign
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 2: that this place has been here a while. Okay, Now
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 2: I went perusing and I found this on their website.
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 2: Founded in nineteen seventy two. Okay, CB's Tropical Aquarium has
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 2: been a Portland staple for generations. Travis joined the team
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety four and took over as owner several
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 2: years later.
• 1:53:43
  Speaker 1: Today, I wonder if that's why I talked to today.
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 2: We specialize in custom and exotic aquariums that help bring
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 2: all your aquatic dreams to life.
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 1: Joe, I have many aquatic dreams.
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 2: So, oh you have. In nineteen ninety four, at some
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 2: point after this AARRB interaction, you have Doyle selling the business.
• 1:54:16
  Speaker 2: At some point after this, Travis came on the future
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 2: owner would come on to work with them. The same
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 2: year he talked to the ARB nineteen ninety four. No,
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, he talked to him in nineteen ninety six,
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 2: So Travis had been working at the CB Tropical Store
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 2: for two years at the time. Doyle was talking to
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 2: the ARARB in ninety six, and they listed that as
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 2: his business still in nineteen ninety six. So Travis didn't
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 2: take over until sometime after nineteen ninety six, is what
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to say. But it had been in the
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 2: Doyle family since nineteen seventy two. So if you do
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 2: some quick math, roughly for twenty five years, right, Jim Doyle,
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 2: young smooth, fourteen year old Jim Doyle at some point
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 2: owned the c B Tropical Aquarium Shop until he gave
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 2: it over or put in a trust or whatever you
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 2: want to call it to Travis, who still to this
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 2: day runs it. And I'll show you travising here in
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 2: just the second Joe Okay. Now recently, as of this year, Joe,
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 2: it's official they moved locations. Okay, they're no longer where
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 2: they were for the past fifty some years. They moved
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 2: and their grand opening was actually this year on June
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 2: twenty fourth, twenty twenty five, to their new digs, Joe,
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 2: which looks like this. Mhmm. This is their new digs.
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 2: They got new hours. Now you can kind of see Joe.
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 2: I know Portland is or can be a little bit
• 1:56:17
  Speaker 2: of a shithole. So you can see the security gates
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 2: in front of the business that they can close at
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 2: night to keep out the riff raft.
• 1:56:27
  Speaker 1: I thank you pointing that out.
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 2: Yes, they got the security gates.
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 1: Yes, the black gates on the sides of the of
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 1: the painting, if you will.
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 2: You know, there's there's so much rampant drug use and
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 2: homelessness and liberal skuffoos are going on in Portland, Oregon.
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 2: They got to put up a fucking security gate right
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 2: right now. I read some of the reviews for Cebe Trap,
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 2: and they're out there, but they said at one point, uh,
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 2: one of the reviews said, you know, the owner is
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 2: very nice, and I said, I did see him lose
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 2: his shit one time though, when the homeless people kept
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 2: coming in there asking for water, and apparently he had
• 1:57:22
  Speaker 2: enough of that bullshit one day and just started yelling
• 1:57:25
  Speaker 2: at the homeless people to get out of his store.
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 1: Now, I mean, homeless people usually don't buy fish.
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 2: You got any fish water you don't need I'll drink that.
• 1:57:40
  Speaker 2: I don't fuck. Now here is mister Travis.
• 1:57:49
  Speaker 1: I wonder if that's the guy I talked to today.
• 1:57:52
  Speaker 1: I feel like it might have been. He was like,
• 1:57:54
  Speaker 1: why are you calling? And I'm like, well, this isn't
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 1: gonna sound pretty weird.
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 2: But well, you know, before I figured out that this
• 1:58:02
  Speaker 2: was Travis and not Jim Doyle, right, But I came
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 2: across this picture and if you look up on the
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 2: shelf behind his head, Joe, you can see two pictures
• 1:58:15
  Speaker 2: like school pictures of some young kids on his.
• 1:58:20
  Speaker 1: Left side, on the left side of his head looking
• 1:58:22
  Speaker 1: at the picture, yeah yeah, And I was like, one
• 1:58:26
  Speaker 1: in black and one in a little lighter like under
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 1: like to the left of those two.
• 1:58:33
  Speaker 2: Whatever, maybe like the next generation of the Doyle family
• 1:58:36
  Speaker 2: or his grandkids or something. But ultimately the Doyle family, Uh,
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 2: Jim Doyle and apparently his sister Sharon, it never existed.
• 1:58:47
  Speaker 2: According to Travis, are out of the picture when it
• 1:58:54
  Speaker 2: comes to C B Tropical, which is actually still in
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 2: business to this very day. Now, it sucks that Travis
• 1:59:04
  Speaker 2: didn't know more or wouldn't tell you more about the
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 2: Doyle family right, maybe have a phone number, or did
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 2: he even know if Jim's still alive?
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 1: So I said, do you know, is there a mister
• 1:59:20
  Speaker 1: or missus Doyle I can talk to? And he goes,
• 1:59:25
  Speaker 1: they don't owe this establishment anymore or something like that.
• 1:59:31
  Speaker 1: And I tried and he goes, well, I was like,
• 1:59:34
  Speaker 1: did they own it? And he goes, well, wasn't trust
• 1:59:36
  Speaker 1: And it was kind of like he he was very
• 1:59:39
  Speaker 1: nice to me. He wasn't not nice, but he wasn't
• 1:59:42
  Speaker 1: like one hundred percent forthcoming either. I feel, I don't know,
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 1: I made a phone call.
• 1:59:51
  Speaker 2: You should have just called up and asked for Jim, right,
• 1:59:55
  Speaker 2: and he see what he said and then be like, look,
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 2: you know, I grew up in Portland. I used to
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 2: go there all the time, the teenage here and buy
• 2:00:04
  Speaker 2: fish off Jim and blah blah blah, and really butted
• 2:00:07
  Speaker 2: him up and see if he'd open up to you
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 2: a little bit but you're still hunting your investigatory skills.
• 2:00:15
  Speaker 1: No, no, no no. I came across a post on
• 2:00:18
  Speaker 1: the Education Forum that said Jim Doyle has since passed away,
• 2:00:24
  Speaker 1: and that lines up for me if Travis is when
• 2:00:30
  Speaker 1: I talk to you and he says it's a trust,
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 1: that lines up for me.
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 2: I don't know, But.
• 2:00:39
  Speaker 1: Who the fuck knows anymore? You know?
• 2:00:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know, but it's an interesting story with
• 2:00:46
  Speaker 2: some interesting twists and turns and fascinating story, weird things
• 2:00:52
  Speaker 2: you've never heard of before when it comes to the story,
• 2:00:55
  Speaker 2: And again, where's all the truth in this? Don't know,
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 2: but there definitely seems to be some fuckery abound when
• 2:01:05
  Speaker 2: it comes to these FBI takeing edited films of this event.
• 2:01:13
  Speaker 2: There has to be a reason why, right right, And
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 2: if you take into consideration that eight seven or eight
• 2:01:23
  Speaker 2: cubans got cut down to three and a knife taken
• 2:01:26
  Speaker 2: out of the equation, and the fact that two demonstrators
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 2: got cut down to one, there has to be a
• 2:01:36
  Speaker 2: reason for it, right there. Yeah, is your red flag
• 2:01:42
  Speaker 2: and possibly the key to opening this whole thing up
• 2:01:44
  Speaker 2: to try to figure out what the fuck was happening
• 2:01:48
  Speaker 2: in New Orleans in the summer of sixty three with
• 2:01:51
  Speaker 2: Lee Oswald. Obviously he had somebody that he was working with, Yeah,
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 2: that they didn't want you to know about.
• 2:02:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:02:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the question is who is it? I mean, God,
• 2:02:08
  Speaker 2: could you imagine if it was Michael Payne? Could you
• 2:02:10
  Speaker 2: imagine that Joe? What the repercussions of that would be?
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 1: That would be nuts? Or if if it was you know,
• 2:02:21
  Speaker 1: any other you know, half dozen scuffuses, that would have
• 2:02:26
  Speaker 1: created a huge problem if if a rest reports with
• 2:02:32
  Speaker 1: uh Lee and that guy came out, you know what
• 2:02:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, like.
• 2:02:37
  Speaker 2: Specifically called this guy la Joe's brother. That is wild
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 2: to me.
• 2:02:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you have to think they looked somewhat alike or
• 2:02:48
  Speaker 1: act alike or something to make that comparison.
• 2:02:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And.
• 2:02:55
  Speaker 1: I mean listen, like we have talked about the John T.
• 2:02:58
  Speaker 1: Martin film and how it was mess messed with. We've
• 2:03:02
  Speaker 1: shown stills and the Walker thing and all that we've
• 2:03:05
  Speaker 1: gone over that we've talked about this. They're hiding something.
• 2:03:10
  Speaker 1: I don't know what it is, but they're hiding something.
• 2:03:15
  Speaker 2: They're definitely something, Yes.
• 2:03:17
  Speaker 1: And it's probably an asset and or agent ah screwing
• 2:03:22
  Speaker 1: with Lee late?
• 2:03:25
  Speaker 2: Was it har and Lee together?
• 2:03:28
  Speaker 1: Could have been Harvey and his brother Lee. They looked
• 2:03:30
  Speaker 1: alike Rob according to people.
• 2:03:34
  Speaker 2: I mean, who knows what the hell is going on here?
• 2:03:39
  Speaker 1: But like really who knows? But all I know is
• 2:03:42
  Speaker 1: that something more is going on for sure.
• 2:03:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, folks, we did it again. We delivered,
• 2:03:57
  Speaker 2: yes the last second, something amazing. Yeah, something informative, something entertaining.
• 2:04:09
  Speaker 2: And as we always do, we appreciate each every one
• 2:04:12
  Speaker 2: of you showing up and showing out in the comments section.
• 2:04:16
  Speaker 2: You guys rock. Thank you everybody for the super chats
• 2:04:21
  Speaker 2: and support and the memberships. Man, yeah, I know, yeah, man.
• 2:04:29
  Speaker 1: I mean we try to like come up with some
• 2:04:32
  Speaker 1: good topics and this one is kind of one that's
• 2:04:38
  Speaker 1: up our alley and one that made me kind of
• 2:04:42
  Speaker 1: go back and forth a bunch of times.
• 2:04:44
  Speaker 2: We've had this in our back pocket for a little while,
• 2:04:46
  Speaker 2: just full transparency, because we were gonna maybe do something
• 2:04:52
  Speaker 2: at Lancer at some point about this, and then they
• 2:04:58
  Speaker 2: went to the dark side and we said negative ghostwriter,
• 2:05:01
  Speaker 2: And you know, it's kind of it's kind of big
• 2:05:06
  Speaker 2: for just a normal episode of the Lungomen podcast, but
• 2:05:10
  Speaker 2: it's it would have if we would have went as
• 2:05:14
  Speaker 2: deep as we possibly could have have we been had
• 2:05:18
  Speaker 2: enough time to do this correctly? It definitely and we
• 2:05:23
  Speaker 2: have much more information about this. Yeah, you know, it
• 2:05:28
  Speaker 2: could have definitely been something like a conference presentation on
• 2:05:32
  Speaker 2: its own for sure. I mean, Joe, we're two hours
• 2:05:35
  Speaker 2: into it now. Could you imagine whittling this son of
• 2:05:38
  Speaker 2: a bitch down to an hour or fifty five minutes?
• 2:05:41
  Speaker 2: And you know, yeah, I mean it's just so much
• 2:05:46
  Speaker 2: information to take in, so much crazy stuff that needs
• 2:05:49
  Speaker 2: to be tracked down and verified and see what's going on.
• 2:05:54
  Speaker 2: But I think we pulled it off.
• 2:05:55
  Speaker 1: Joe, I think so. I think so when we did
• 2:05:58
  Speaker 1: do it with like about twenty four hours of notice,
• 2:06:02
  Speaker 1: and we did have this in our back pocket, and
• 2:06:04
  Speaker 1: there could be a part two of this. I mean
• 2:06:06
  Speaker 1: it's not like over we have some more leaves. We're
• 2:06:08
  Speaker 1: kind of tragging down with this film.
• 2:06:11
  Speaker 2: But uh, this very open ended, uh yeah, subject that
• 2:06:17
  Speaker 2: can definitely be tracked down some more. Like our folks
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 2: in Oregon High Colleen, you know, maybe you could show
• 2:06:26
  Speaker 2: up at see be tropical and putting next to button
• 2:06:30
  Speaker 2: on your.
• 2:06:30
  Speaker 1: Blouse that yeah, talk to Travis there and.
• 2:06:34
  Speaker 2: He was talking out you know what I'm saying, Like
• 2:06:38
  Speaker 2: that would be gated.
• 2:06:40
  Speaker 1: Hey, that's how a lot of research was done, you know,
• 2:06:45
  Speaker 1: back in the day.
• 2:06:46
  Speaker 2: And our secret weapon in there. Here's the rocket queen
• 2:06:49
  Speaker 2: getting there.
• 2:06:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. James Smith said the New Orleans Rosetta Stone,
• 2:06:56
  Speaker 1: the fractae I think he's talking about. But yeah, I agree,
• 2:07:00
  Speaker 1: it's it's up there.
• 2:07:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, something something that's not right about it. Yeah, especially
• 2:07:07
  Speaker 2: when you have all these CIA affiliated Cubans at the courthouse, right,
• 2:07:14
  Speaker 2: and again that gets the Cuban count up to seven
• 2:07:17
  Speaker 2: from the three that we're told, right, And if we're
• 2:07:21
  Speaker 2: told about the three, then they really don't matter because
• 2:07:25
  Speaker 2: they're nobody's they're just affiliated with the dre right, not
• 2:07:32
  Speaker 2: ci A right. But when you have actual CIA affiliated Cubans,
• 2:07:41
  Speaker 2: you might want to keep that on the download a
• 2:07:43
  Speaker 2: little bit, right, yes, and not on Oswald on a
• 2:07:48
  Speaker 2: knife on the guy.
• 2:07:50
  Speaker 1: Man. That knife thing was. I think the most surprising
• 2:07:53
  Speaker 1: thing I learned in this episode was that there's a
• 2:07:59
  Speaker 1: witness test morning that there was a knife a stiletto
• 2:08:03
  Speaker 1: involved on Mall Street. That's crazy, Scott. Another great show
• 2:08:09
  Speaker 1: with totally original research. We try maybe not completely original,
• 2:08:14
  Speaker 1: but we try to put our own uh.
• 2:08:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we try to go the extra mile or
• 2:08:22
  Speaker 2: maybe a quarter mile anyway, Yeah, thank you.
• 2:08:28
  Speaker 1: You can't go any more deeper than calling a fish
• 2:08:30
  Speaker 1: store owner in Oregon, and yes.
• 2:08:35
  Speaker 2: Spend our secret weapon Colleen in there with the Yeah.
• 2:08:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess we could go a little deeper, which
• 2:08:41
  Speaker 1: was the original plan. Yes, but I did try doing
• 2:08:48
  Speaker 1: that today and I was like, this is gonna sound weird,
• 2:08:52
  Speaker 1: but I'm a JFK researcher. And He's like, oh, okay,
• 2:08:56
  Speaker 1: but I didn't. Over was Travis. That was funny.
• 2:09:00
  Speaker 2: Talk about smelling fishy, Scott, you got that right.
• 2:09:03
  Speaker 1: This that is common of the night. Scott wins it again,
• 2:09:08
  Speaker 1: as he usually does.
• 2:09:10
  Speaker 2: Brobo Scott, Robo, sir, Yeah, another amazing fish story from
• 2:09:19
  Speaker 2: the incoming podcast. Man, alrighte, grab the goddamn dog. Grab
• 2:09:28
  Speaker 2: your fish.
• 2:09:36
  Speaker 1: She knows I'm like gonna grab her. Ruby, Come here, Ruby, Ruby.
• 2:09:45
  Speaker 2: Grab Dino by the balls and drag him in here.
• 2:09:49
  Speaker 1: Oh give me a second.
• 2:09:54
  Speaker 2: Alright, folks, we've done it again. We're here. Oh where
• 2:10:02
  Speaker 2: we're in New Orleans again. It's Friday night, still early
• 2:10:07
  Speaker 2: if you want to party a little bit there. See you.
• 2:10:11
  Speaker 2: Thanks for hanging out with us, Thanks for learning with us.
• 2:10:13
  Speaker 2: Thanks for researching with us. We hope you learned something
• 2:10:19
  Speaker 2: for it, just as more confusion to the whole story.
• 2:10:24
  Speaker 2: But before we do, good night, Ruby.
• 2:10:28
  Speaker 3: Looks.
• 2:10:30
  Speaker 1: It's talk. We have the in laws in this week.
• 2:10:38
  Speaker 3: Ruby, guys, we'll see you on We're seeing the review
• 2:10:45
  Speaker 3: before we see on Wednesday, so stay tuned for that
• 2:10:49
  Speaker 3: until then.
• 2:10:50
  Speaker 2: Oh and uh, we're recording quick hits in the morning legedly.
• 2:10:54
  Speaker 2: I'm looking at for that too, sometime this weekend. To drop.
• 2:10:59
  Speaker 1: Very nice.
• 2:11:00
  Speaker 2: Pah pah pah, Papa fun one peace out.