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Creating Community — Digging In | UK Column Interviews · UK Column Radio

0:08
Speaker 1: Hello, this is Charles Mallet with the UK Column Production
0:11
Speaker 1: and today I have with me Susan Humphrey. And Susan,
0:14
Speaker 1: it's not so much a case of welcoming you to
0:16
Speaker 1: UK column because you are already an esteemed and valued member,
0:20
Speaker 1: but it is a welcome to a UK column interview.
0:23
Speaker 1: Thank you very much indeed for joining me.
0:25
Speaker 2: Thank you.
0:26
Speaker 1: Now, Susan, what we'll do is we will just go
0:30
Speaker 1: to where you are now, which is that you have
0:34
Speaker 1: acquired land with a number of others and you are
0:36
Speaker 1: cracking on getting stuff done, producing food. So let's just
0:39
Speaker 1: start with a summary of things as they are now.
0:42
Speaker 1: Please describe the situation.
0:46
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, so we have some land between forty eight
0:48
Speaker 3: of us in Dorbshire, about two acres on the land.
0:53
Speaker 2: We have.
0:55
Speaker 3: Cultivated some beds and we also have a large polytype
1:00
Speaker 3: and another one just about to be put up.
1:03
Speaker 2: And we have chickens, seven chickens, and we.
1:06
Speaker 3: Have some ducklings that are just about to arrive there
1:09
Speaker 3: being looked after by one of our members until they're
1:12
Speaker 3: ready to come. We have various things that we've built. Well,
1:18
Speaker 3: not me, but some talented people that are that are
1:22
Speaker 3: members of the team.
1:24
Speaker 2: We have a compost toilet. We have two or three sheds.
1:29
Speaker 3: One is in the process of being reconstructed because it's
1:33
Speaker 3: been brought from somewhere else to the to the land.
1:35
Speaker 3: We have a large lock up container where we can
1:40
Speaker 3: keep tools and all sorts of all sorts of things
1:43
Speaker 3: that we need to keep locked away.
1:47
Speaker 2: We have on our land.
1:48
Speaker 3: One of the borders is a brook and we have
1:51
Speaker 3: we own that longitudinally, so we can use the water
1:54
Speaker 3: from the brook, you know, in a sort of sparing,
1:57
Speaker 3: careful way. But we can actually because we've one of
2:00
Speaker 3: our talented people on board has rigged up a pump
2:04
Speaker 3: system so we can pump the water out of the
2:06
Speaker 3: brook and we can also pump it to three large
2:10
Speaker 3: containers on the land, and then we can use a
2:13
Speaker 3: hose or you know, water ink hans to water water things.
2:20
Speaker 3: Last year was our first sort of season really and
2:22
Speaker 3: we did really well, and we're just going to try
2:25
Speaker 3: and do the same.
2:25
Speaker 2: Thing this year.
2:27
Speaker 3: Planting tomatoes, aubergines, peppers in the polytunnel. We even had
2:36
Speaker 3: little melon plant last year, so we'll have a go
2:38
Speaker 3: at that again this year as well. And then outside
2:42
Speaker 3: we've just about to put potatoes in and we've already
2:45
Speaker 3: planted broad beans, we've got strawberry patches and herb garden.
2:50
Speaker 3: We've done very well with compost, lots of compost piles
2:55
Speaker 3: gathering everywhere, and we have chickens, so we have eggs.
3:00
Speaker 3: We have a crew of about six to eight people
3:04
Speaker 3: that go there very often, so they're very keen to go,
3:08
Speaker 3: and it works out quite well because those of them
3:12
Speaker 3: that go a lot don't seem to be resentful that
3:14
Speaker 3: the rest don't go, and the rest that don't go
3:16
Speaker 3: because of very circumstances very often don't mind the ones
3:21
Speaker 3: that are there all the time sort of you know,
3:23
Speaker 3: making decisions about things really, and so they somebody has
3:28
Speaker 3: to go at least every other day for the chickens.
3:33
Speaker 3: At the present time, I know that there's a couple
3:36
Speaker 3: that go every Tuesday. There's another chat that goes Tuesday
3:41
Speaker 3: and thursdays every week and they have a chicken. We
3:45
Speaker 3: have a telegram link for things, so we have a
3:47
Speaker 3: telegram link for the chicken rotor to make sure that
3:50
Speaker 3: there's always been somebody there to feed the chickens. And
3:53
Speaker 3: when people come, they stay for a while and you know,
3:57
Speaker 3: all day often and let the chickens roam around free,
4:01
Speaker 3: so we.
4:01
Speaker 2: Have lots of eggs from the chickens.
4:04
Speaker 3: We have a little sort of petty cash system so
4:07
Speaker 3: that we pay I think it's like twenty p for
4:09
Speaker 3: each egg or something, just so that it's sort of
4:13
Speaker 3: fair really. And then every month, on the third weekend
4:18
Speaker 3: of every month, we have like a working weekend, so
4:22
Speaker 3: we just as many people as want to come to that.
4:26
Speaker 3: It's usually only about a dozen actually, and then on
4:29
Speaker 3: the Sunday of that weekend we have a meeting and
4:33
Speaker 3: then anything we need to decide at the meeting is
4:36
Speaker 3: done there, so that you know, it's fair. Really, people
4:41
Speaker 3: attend for the people that sort of make decisions.
4:43
Speaker 2: Really.
4:45
Speaker 3: Other people that don't come are just in the background.
4:49
Speaker 3: People can come whenever they like to. We've had certain
4:53
Speaker 3: events where people have camped over. We've got one border
4:59
Speaker 3: which is onto a pedestrian street because the whole area
5:03
Speaker 3: was farmland and you know, houses were built on it,
5:07
Speaker 3: you see. So and we've made friends with well not
5:09
Speaker 3: really friends, but we did put letters through their letterbox
5:14
Speaker 3: and we've had a couple of you know, nice replies.
5:17
Speaker 3: We we in other words, we've got good relations with
5:19
Speaker 3: the neighbors. We don't see them very much, so that works.
5:22
Speaker 3: That works okay. And then another board is a footpath
5:26
Speaker 3: of which we own some of so we often see
5:28
Speaker 3: people walking up and down the footpaths and people are
5:30
Speaker 3: very friendly. And so yeah, we we've we've we we
5:38
Speaker 3: actually have some subs. We put some subs in once
5:41
Speaker 3: a year, and we don't really insist that people that
5:46
Speaker 3: hardly ever come to the land pay the subs. It's
5:48
Speaker 3: mainly the people that come to the land that pay
5:50
Speaker 3: the subs and and that helps us afford things.
5:54
Speaker 2: So we've we've paid for.
5:58
Speaker 3: Like a path to go down the middle where we
6:01
Speaker 3: can so that people can bring their vehicles on the land,
6:07
Speaker 3: but mostly you can.
6:09
Speaker 2: You can you can park outside.
6:10
Speaker 3: And because there's not many of us at the land
6:13
Speaker 3: at any one time, that hasn't really caused a problem.
6:17
Speaker 3: And then we have little social events. We have a
6:21
Speaker 3: couple that have given us free of charge the use
6:24
Speaker 3: of their yurt, which is really wonderful and so we
6:27
Speaker 3: can go inside when the weather's in clement. We just
6:30
Speaker 3: had a spring et Queen not celebration which is very
6:33
Speaker 3: nice last weekend, and then we've got May Day coming
6:37
Speaker 3: up and the last two years we've had a may
6:40
Speaker 3: celebration there as a friend of mine actually that is
6:44
Speaker 3: into the sort of folks scene.
6:45
Speaker 2: He's really good at teaching people to maypole dance.
6:48
Speaker 3: He's got a may pole that he brings, and so
6:51
Speaker 3: that's that's good.
6:52
Speaker 2: We are that we invite friends to.
6:54
Speaker 3: The land, but only when there's other of us there,
6:58
Speaker 3: you know. Yeah, so we're doing we're doing really well.
7:03
Speaker 1: Certainly sounds like it, Susan. You paint a very positive
7:06
Speaker 1: and rosy picture, and I must say you also make
7:09
Speaker 1: it sound very simple, but knowing that forty eight people
7:12
Speaker 1: are involved in one way or another suggests a degree
7:16
Speaker 1: of complexity that you're not yet getting into the weedeb
7:19
Speaker 1: But what I would like to do is, first of all,
7:21
Speaker 1: thank you for that summary, which I think gives a
7:22
Speaker 1: very good idea to people, and I hope begins that
7:26
Speaker 1: spark of inspiration and suggests to anybody listening that they
7:30
Speaker 1: could do this. Not necessarily to suggest that the template
7:33
Speaker 1: you have is exactly the one that anyone should necessarily adopt.
7:36
Speaker 1: But what I would like to do, Susan, is to
7:38
Speaker 1: go back and get to the point at which you
7:42
Speaker 1: started to think about this you know, this is a
7:45
Speaker 1: big commitment, it's a big decision, and certainly to enter
7:48
Speaker 1: into such a scheme with so many other people. So
7:51
Speaker 1: just take me back to your thought processes as they
7:54
Speaker 1: were at the start of this journey.
7:58
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, the very start really was the lockdown, and
8:02
Speaker 3: in the beginning of twenty twenty one, I met up
8:04
Speaker 3: with people of the same mind as myself, and we
8:09
Speaker 3: first of all met sort of illicitly really in someone's house.
8:12
Speaker 3: There was about you know, eight of us or something,
8:15
Speaker 3: and we had regular meetings and we just this is
8:18
Speaker 3: one of the first thoughts really that we'd have to
8:20
Speaker 3: do something and we'd have to encourage others to grow
8:23
Speaker 3: our own food and try and be as off grid
8:25
Speaker 3: as we possibly could.
8:27
Speaker 2: So, you know, we talked about it a lot.
8:31
Speaker 3: And then we sort of like didn't come so regularly
8:34
Speaker 3: to meet because lockdowns were lifted and things and things
8:38
Speaker 3: went back to normal. But we were various different people
8:42
Speaker 3: were looking for bits of land and we did find
8:46
Speaker 3: sums and they didn't work out. But then in the
8:49
Speaker 3: beginning of twenty twenty two, four people, two of whom
8:52
Speaker 3: were from this original group that I was in, and
8:55
Speaker 3: another two that I didn't know. Had come together, the
8:59
Speaker 3: four of them and thought up this idea and they
9:02
Speaker 3: put it all on paper, really sort of well thought out,
9:07
Speaker 3: and they invited all people they could think of that
9:10
Speaker 3: they knew or networked with other people, and it turned
9:13
Speaker 3: out that seventy of us met in this hotel in
9:17
Speaker 3: Ripley and Derbyshire and we all agreed to pay five
9:22
Speaker 3: pounds only to hire this huge room. And we sat
9:25
Speaker 3: around and we talked about it, and they showed us
9:28
Speaker 3: the plan and they said that it needed they reckoned
9:30
Speaker 3: it was between forteen and sixty people for it to work,
9:33
Speaker 3: and we'd all give one thousand pounds. So we talked
9:38
Speaker 3: about it all day and shared food together, and we
9:42
Speaker 3: trusted each other, you see, because I think the thing
9:45
Speaker 3: is it probably wouldn't have happened at any other time.
9:48
Speaker 2: It was one of those things.
9:49
Speaker 3: That one of these positive things, or you know that
9:52
Speaker 3: the lockdown threw up really because you know, it just
9:56
Speaker 3: made us think we've got to do something. We can't
9:59
Speaker 3: just rely on the old systems because they're all corrupt
10:03
Speaker 3: and so so yeah, so we went away and thought
10:08
Speaker 3: about it, and they set up a telegram group for us,
10:11
Speaker 3: and then they gave us I think about a month's
10:13
Speaker 3: decision time whether to put in the money, and so
10:17
Speaker 3: forty eight of us just gave on trust one thousand pounds.
10:21
Speaker 2: And the man.
10:23
Speaker 3: That organized it was one of the people that I
10:25
Speaker 3: knew was very anti anything to do with banks and
10:27
Speaker 3: money actually, but he agreed to set up this bank
10:30
Speaker 3: account and we all put the thousand handing.
10:33
Speaker 2: Then we set to work looking for it.
10:35
Speaker 3: Now that's where you know, some people thought this is
10:37
Speaker 3: never going to happen, and some people got a bit
10:40
Speaker 3: tetchy on the link because we felt as if we
10:43
Speaker 3: were already a community, but some of us thought that
10:46
Speaker 3: we weren't. Really, we weren't going to be a community
10:48
Speaker 3: until we started farming. And some people are saying, well,
10:52
Speaker 3: I'm looking for the land more than you are, and
10:55
Speaker 3: one thing another. But anyway, after all that, in twenty
10:59
Speaker 3: the beginning of twenty twenty four, some suitable land was
11:03
Speaker 3: found and it all went through.
11:05
Speaker 2: We bought it and there we were, and so that
11:10
Speaker 2: was the beginning of it.
11:11
Speaker 1: Really, Okay, it is fascinating season. I think there's so
11:14
Speaker 1: many follow up questions from that, and I think this
11:17
Speaker 1: is anecdotal. I can't necessarily substantiate it. But what you're describing,
11:22
Speaker 1: in so far as your reaction to lockdown is concerned,
11:27
Speaker 1: is interesting to me because I have so far only
11:32
Speaker 1: discovered people who have articulated your philosophy and sort of
11:38
Speaker 1: train of thought as being people who are broadly or
11:43
Speaker 1: were skeptical of the government policy during the period twenty
11:49
Speaker 1: twenty onwards. And the interesting point there, I think is
11:54
Speaker 1: that even the people who were in support of lockdown
12:00
Speaker 1: and believed that there was a significant threat from what
12:03
Speaker 1: was being described as a novel illness, they were all
12:07
Speaker 1: absolutely perfectly aware of the relationship between such a thing
12:11
Speaker 1: and the sort of shock to the economy and the
12:16
Speaker 1: food system. And yet I haven't come across a single
12:18
Speaker 1: person who took that view who has been prompted to
12:22
Speaker 1: do something like you have. Is that a thought that
12:27
Speaker 1: has crossed your mind? I mean, why is it that
12:30
Speaker 1: what you're doing, what it is that you have thought of,
12:34
Speaker 1: really only seems to be the preserve of people who
12:37
Speaker 1: think that everything went very badly wrong in twenty twenty.
12:44
Speaker 2: I don't know, really.
12:45
Speaker 3: I mean, the thing is that there's I suppose I'm
12:47
Speaker 3: quite fortunate and there's quite a lot of people around
12:49
Speaker 3: me that think the way I do. I mean, my
12:51
Speaker 3: personal story is I live near an organic farm. It's
12:55
Speaker 3: actually a biodynamic farm, actually, and I've known the people
13:00
Speaker 3: there for many, many years. I used to get all
13:01
Speaker 3: my food from there, and at the beginning of lockdown,
13:04
Speaker 3: I rang them sort of in desperation, do you want
13:08
Speaker 3: any volunteers? And they said yes. So I went along
13:11
Speaker 3: there and volunteered, you see, and I still volunteered just
13:13
Speaker 3: on a Monday. Now, now I met they took on
13:17
Speaker 3: quite a few volunteers, and we all had the same feeling,
13:22
Speaker 3: you see. So it was wonderful really because you know,
13:26
Speaker 3: there are obviously lots of people that had none of that,
13:29
Speaker 3: you know, I mean even family members disagreed with them.
13:32
Speaker 3: But because you know, I'm a mother, I've got a
13:36
Speaker 3: grown up daughter that's got children. But I was living
13:40
Speaker 3: in my own house by myself at the time, so
13:42
Speaker 3: so lots of people it was, oh, my goodness, you know,
13:45
Speaker 3: what's going to happen. I just feared that that was it.
13:47
Speaker 3: You know, children were used to computers and we were
13:50
Speaker 3: never going to be let out of this thing. It
13:51
Speaker 3: was just absolutely horrendous. But anyway, because I found these
13:56
Speaker 3: like minded people. It was easier. And I used to
13:59
Speaker 3: leave my house, my little my house in little terrace
14:02
Speaker 3: street of houses. I used to go Monday, Wednesday and Friday.
14:05
Speaker 3: And I used to think that my neighbors would be thinking,
14:08
Speaker 3: where is she going, you know, because she's going out
14:10
Speaker 3: at nine in the morning, not coming back to a
14:12
Speaker 3: five at night.
14:12
Speaker 2: You know that I was.
14:14
Speaker 3: Allowed to do this because you were allowed to go, oh,
14:19
Speaker 3: I don't know, a mile or something to walk to
14:23
Speaker 3: the farm and then come back again. So but yeah,
14:25
Speaker 3: it was it was I thought, oh, they're going to
14:27
Speaker 3: string me up, you know, it's going to be awful.
14:31
Speaker 3: But but but because when I got there, there was
14:33
Speaker 3: this wonderful atmosphere and I was outside, you know, and
14:38
Speaker 3: there was no planes in the sky, and it was
14:40
Speaker 3: it was beautiful weather. And and although I mean I've got,
14:44
Speaker 3: I've gotten, I have actually gotten a lotment of my own.
14:46
Speaker 3: So I am quite into gardening. But I learned such
14:48
Speaker 3: a lot from farming, helping them farm this pidynamic farm,
14:53
Speaker 3: you see. So that was my personal story. But the
14:58
Speaker 3: people I met, like those people that I met with illicitly.
15:00
Speaker 3: I mean one of the girls, my great friend Deborah,
15:06
Speaker 3: I knew her from Morris Dartsy because in the area
15:09
Speaker 3: where I live there are quite a lot of folky things,
15:12
Speaker 3: I suppose, you know, So I mean I don't I mean,
15:16
Speaker 3: I don't originally come from this area. I come from
15:19
Speaker 3: Watford in the first place, but I do like living
15:23
Speaker 3: where I live on the not Starby border, and you know,
15:26
Speaker 3: there are quite a lot of people that play, play
15:29
Speaker 3: instruments and do these folky things, and I so. So
15:33
Speaker 3: Deborah had the same mind as me, but she wasn't
15:35
Speaker 3: really from any sort of gardening background. But I think
15:39
Speaker 3: it just came to us quite quickly when we had
15:41
Speaker 3: these first meetings, you know that we there was something
15:46
Speaker 3: called Something that was going on in Mexico, and we
15:48
Speaker 3: kept linking in to what they were doing, and they
15:51
Speaker 3: called themselves Thrive, and it was it was all to
15:55
Speaker 3: do with going back to basics really, you know, sort
15:58
Speaker 3: of family and and because where I was working, they
16:04
Speaker 3: were doing that things like that, they were growing food
16:06
Speaker 3: and having box.
16:07
Speaker 2: Schemes, you know.
16:08
Speaker 3: But I mean there was there's another venture that's been
16:11
Speaker 3: set up as well that I'm involved in a little bit,
16:15
Speaker 3: and that's mentioned Nasery that's in Worksworth anyway, in Derbyshire.
16:21
Speaker 3: And what happened there is that this lovely couple have
16:23
Speaker 3: got a small holding which they own and run and
16:27
Speaker 3: they just have allowed again there's only six people this
16:31
Speaker 3: time to farm about six allotments worth of land. And
16:37
Speaker 3: I go and go to go to see them every
16:39
Speaker 3: month as well. In fact, it was their last Tuesday.
16:42
Speaker 3: So I think I just fortunate enough to meet people
16:47
Speaker 3: of Yeah, and we just thought this was imperative. We
16:51
Speaker 3: just thought this, we had to do this. I mean
16:54
Speaker 3: I think of the seventy people that all around that
16:56
Speaker 3: in that room. Some people were like desperate to do it,
17:00
Speaker 3: you know, we really really must do this thing, you know.
17:04
Speaker 3: And then when we had to decide to join, I
17:08
Speaker 3: was wondering, I thought, should I do it? Well, I
17:11
Speaker 3: think a lot of it actually remembering that, Yeah, it
17:14
Speaker 3: was would I have the time and if they found
17:18
Speaker 3: the land, because we were just going to look in
17:20
Speaker 3: all over Derbyshire that was too far for me to
17:23
Speaker 3: get to because I haven't got a car, so it
17:24
Speaker 3: would be public transport.
17:26
Speaker 2: It would be ridiculous, you know.
17:28
Speaker 3: And the initial plan as well was to divide the
17:31
Speaker 3: land into allotments you see, And I thought, well, if
17:33
Speaker 3: I take on the lotment, I just won't have the
17:35
Speaker 3: time to do it, and so there were lots of worries.
17:38
Speaker 2: But I think once you'd committed to the one thousand pounds,
17:40
Speaker 2: well then you were in anyway.
17:43
Speaker 3: And then once the land was got it sorted itself out.
17:48
Speaker 3: Because we ended up not doing the allotments and just
17:52
Speaker 3: who was whoever there is there is, it does the
17:54
Speaker 3: land and we all share. We were worried, you see,
17:58
Speaker 3: we were worried that we'd get this and forty eight
18:01
Speaker 3: people would turn up all in their cars at the
18:02
Speaker 3: same time and they'd.
18:05
Speaker 2: Be all these problems. But it just didn't.
18:07
Speaker 3: It didn't work out like that. So I think, well,
18:10
Speaker 3: all the other thing was was that we were thinking
18:15
Speaker 3: that we should inspire the people. So when we sat
18:17
Speaker 3: around all seventy of us, there was a couple of
18:20
Speaker 3: people from London and there was somebody from Shrewsbury, I think,
18:23
Speaker 3: you know, a long way away, and they were saying, well, look,
18:26
Speaker 3: we'll give a thousand pounds for the project. You know,
18:30
Speaker 3: it's better than giving it to a charity, especially nowadays
18:32
Speaker 3: charities how they're run, and we'll observe and then we
18:37
Speaker 3: can encourage people to do it in our area, you see.
18:40
Speaker 2: So that was very much part of what we were doing.
18:43
Speaker 1: Really, that is really interesting. And there's a couple of
18:46
Speaker 1: things I want to come back to. I mean, you know,
18:48
Speaker 1: you've talked about to a certain extent sort of what
18:51
Speaker 1: you've learned and your experiences were on your allotment and
18:54
Speaker 1: the organic farm. I do want to come back to that,
18:56
Speaker 1: because I think that's such an important part of it
18:58
Speaker 1: in terms of knowledge and how that gets built on
19:02
Speaker 1: and everything else. But what I'd like to get to is, well, suddenly,
19:06
Speaker 1: as a remark, and you've just referenced inspiration, I think
19:11
Speaker 1: it is fascinating to hear a story from you that
19:15
Speaker 1: involves you taking action and doing something. And we have
19:19
Speaker 1: not really even scratched below the surface yet and it's
19:24
Speaker 1: already come out that you are absolutely a doer. This
19:28
Speaker 1: is not a coincidence. I wouldn't say that your commitment
19:32
Speaker 1: really early on in twenty twenty to go to the
19:34
Speaker 1: organic farm and offer yourself as a volunteer and indeed
19:38
Speaker 1: to be working in allotment and whatnot. It doesn't seem
19:42
Speaker 1: to me to be a coincidence that you have got
19:44
Speaker 1: involved in this, and yet the thing that you referred to. Well,
19:47
Speaker 1: there are two things that I'd like to bring out.
19:49
Speaker 1: One is timing, and I think that's what we should
19:51
Speaker 1: just talk about a bit. And then the other thing
19:54
Speaker 1: is the desire to be outdoors, and especially at that time, Viea.
19:57
Speaker 1: You know, we are recording now actly six years after
20:02
Speaker 1: the lockdown had begun for the first time, so six
20:05
Speaker 1: years ago we were in that first week of lockdown. Now,
20:08
Speaker 1: let's just deal with that first, because I on a
20:12
Speaker 1: recent UK column news program I showed that dreadful footage
20:16
Speaker 1: from Derbyshire Police, funnily enough, who were shaming people who'd
20:20
Speaker 1: gone walking in the Peak district and they'd sent up
20:23
Speaker 1: a drone and they were using this footage in order
20:28
Speaker 1: to demonstrate how people were not pulling together, they were
20:32
Speaker 1: not following the rules, and describing this specifically as being
20:35
Speaker 1: not essential. Now you have effectively made the case for
20:39
Speaker 1: it being absolutely essential, and I would agree with you wholeheartedly.
20:43
Speaker 1: But just if you can just take your mind back
20:48
Speaker 1: to this time six years ago and the beginnings of
20:52
Speaker 1: the lockdown, what were your thoughts about, not so much
20:56
Speaker 1: the overarching policy decisions, but the impact on your life,
21:01
Speaker 1: your family, your friends. I mean, how did you view
21:03
Speaker 1: what was happening then? Did you have any sense of
21:06
Speaker 1: how it was going to unfold?
21:09
Speaker 3: Well, initially, I was terrified, really because I think, I said,
21:14
Speaker 3: I just thought that this was it, you know. I thought,
21:17
Speaker 3: we're living in an age now where they've got the
21:20
Speaker 3: electronic system so well organized that anybody that wants to
21:23
Speaker 3: take over the world, you know, like an apollion or
21:26
Speaker 3: something can do it. Because they perhaps couldn't have even
21:29
Speaker 3: done it in the eighties, you know, but they can
21:31
Speaker 3: do it because they can get to people and anyone
21:34
Speaker 3: that hasn't got a computer, computer will be provided, you know.
21:37
Speaker 3: So I was I was terrified at first, and my
21:40
Speaker 3: daughter just had a baby. She had a baby in
21:42
Speaker 3: March the eleventh, and then it was on I think
21:45
Speaker 3: it was was it Mother's Day or something, was the
21:47
Speaker 3: last sort of weekend, and I remember I remember my
21:50
Speaker 3: daughter saying, do.
21:51
Speaker 2: You want to stay here?
21:52
Speaker 3: You know? And I ended up going home and then
21:55
Speaker 3: and then I think I think I was almost the
21:57
Speaker 3: last transport home and then that was it, you know.
22:01
Speaker 3: And at the time, I mean, I can't believe it now,
22:03
Speaker 3: but I did trust Boris Johnson because I'd been in
22:07
Speaker 3: a big Brexit campaign. You see, I'd campaigned for Brexit,
22:10
Speaker 3: and so I voted for Boris Johnson because I thought,
22:12
Speaker 3: you know, he was.
22:13
Speaker 2: Gonna actually actually make it happen at last. Yeah.
22:19
Speaker 3: And when you said about the level of ours, and
22:20
Speaker 3: I've got lots to say about that leveling up money
22:22
Speaker 3: as well, that's happened in our area. But yeah, so
22:26
Speaker 3: that's what it was. But I but as soon as
22:28
Speaker 3: I started volunteering at the farm and I I think
22:32
Speaker 3: what happened was that I sort of I realized that
22:37
Speaker 3: we'd been lied to for all this time. I didn't
22:41
Speaker 3: I didn't come into UK Column until quite a bit later.
22:45
Speaker 3: It was actually church. One of the members of our
22:49
Speaker 3: church said that he'd been listening to UK Column for
22:52
Speaker 3: quite a long time, and that's when I came in
22:54
Speaker 3: with that. But but there was a near where I live,
23:00
Speaker 3: have this health food shop with this wonderful man that
23:04
Speaker 3: I know sadly's passed away now, really wonderful man, and
23:07
Speaker 3: he kept open and people used to go there and
23:10
Speaker 3: just stand up in the shop and talk. And oh
23:14
Speaker 3: that's right. We came across the magazine, the what's it
23:17
Speaker 3: called the Light magazine?
23:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we read that, and.
23:24
Speaker 3: I just realized, then, you see, I sort of thought,
23:27
Speaker 3: you know, I used to like to listen to the
23:29
Speaker 3: BBC and it over the years. I used to think
23:33
Speaker 3: they'd come up with some sort of like survey that
23:37
Speaker 3: if you have one glass of red wine, that's good
23:38
Speaker 3: for you, and then about.
23:39
Speaker 2: A year later, you'd think they'd say, oh, no, you
23:42
Speaker 2: mustn't have any red wine.
23:43
Speaker 3: And I thought I sort of remembered that they'd said
23:46
Speaker 3: the opposite a year before, and I used to want
23:48
Speaker 3: to talk to people about it and that they just
23:51
Speaker 3: wouldn't really understand what you were saying. And I think
23:54
Speaker 3: once this happened, it was almost as if it all lifted,
23:58
Speaker 3: and I didn't have to sort of like be worried
24:02
Speaker 3: about it anymore, or have a sort of not in
24:06
Speaker 3: your stomach of sort of something coming, or how was
24:10
Speaker 3: it all going to work out in the end, How
24:12
Speaker 3: were we going to sustain everybody? And what was going
24:14
Speaker 3: to happen. We seemed to be spending all our money
24:16
Speaker 3: on China, and it seemed to just sort of lift,
24:19
Speaker 3: and I sort of thought, right, we're in a completely
24:21
Speaker 3: corrupt system, and we have been for hundreds of years,
24:24
Speaker 3: and it's something to do with the banking system.
24:28
Speaker 2: It's the reason we have wars.
24:31
Speaker 3: And of course all these ideas weren't from me then,
24:34
Speaker 3: It's because I was researching things and finding things out.
24:36
Speaker 3: And I remember my granddad who died when I was
24:40
Speaker 3: about nine, but he'd always said people talked about him
24:45
Speaker 3: and said that he didn't believe in vaccines. He didn't
24:49
Speaker 3: let my mother have a vaccine way back in nineteen
24:52
Speaker 3: twenty three when maybe they might have had to pay
24:54
Speaker 3: for them all maybe, I mean recently I've read a
24:57
Speaker 3: book all about it that way back in that time,
25:00
Speaker 3: it was mandated in certain and there was these lovely people.
25:03
Speaker 2: In Leicester and I used to live in Leicester.
25:07
Speaker 3: That had had these incredible demonstrations against it, and these
25:10
Speaker 3: mothers had, you know, walked through the streets saying being
25:15
Speaker 3: against vaccine. And yeah, so my granddad was against it.
25:19
Speaker 3: And also my granddad never liked the BBC. He had
25:22
Speaker 3: a thing against the BBC. And also he was because
25:25
Speaker 3: I was I see my age now. He lived such
25:28
Speaker 3: a long time ago that he was actually a boy's soldier. Well,
25:31
Speaker 3: he was in the cavalry on a horse during the
25:33
Speaker 3: Boer War. But he came back really disliking Churchill, and
25:38
Speaker 3: he disliked Churchill though of course, you know, people don't
25:43
Speaker 3: dislike Churchill, do they because of whatever he's supposed to do.
25:47
Speaker 2: And there were things like that. And then my other
25:48
Speaker 2: granddad from the other side of the family.
25:52
Speaker 3: He was involved in the strike of the nineteen nineteen
25:56
Speaker 3: twenty six, but then he switched politics. And my dad's
26:00
Speaker 3: written a book about his life and it's all in
26:02
Speaker 3: there about granddad.
26:04
Speaker 2: And I sort of thought if we'd listened.
26:07
Speaker 3: To our grandparents more than their history lessons at school,
26:15
Speaker 3: you know, and the politicians, and we perhaps would have
26:19
Speaker 3: been in a better place and would have maybe cast
26:22
Speaker 3: this off like the Armish did.
26:26
Speaker 2: Many years ago. So in a way, and also it
26:29
Speaker 2: made me more.
26:31
Speaker 3: More look into my Christianity and spirituality and thinking not
26:37
Speaker 3: to be fearful, not to be fearful, only have a
26:42
Speaker 3: fear of God, which is a sort of respect thing
26:44
Speaker 3: which is difficult to understand, but.
26:47
Speaker 2: So that.
26:50
Speaker 3: You know you can get on and do things, because
26:52
Speaker 3: otherwise you just be so depressed by it, or wouldn't you,
26:55
Speaker 3: and so worried, And so it's the thing is not
27:00
Speaker 3: to worry, I think, really, but just keep on going.
27:05
Speaker 2: So so yeah, and I say I.
27:08
Speaker 3: Think I I mean, I've actually somebody through UK column
27:11
Speaker 3: after you, after putting that comment on.
27:13
Speaker 2: Has actually contacted me.
27:15
Speaker 3: A near neighbor who has been in isolation, bless him
27:19
Speaker 3: for a long time, you know. I've had a phone
27:23
Speaker 3: conversation with him now and he's hopefully going to join
27:25
Speaker 3: our land project because we still have a few places
27:29
Speaker 3: because of some people falling out, so we've still got
27:32
Speaker 3: we've still got some to replace some people. And obviously
27:37
Speaker 3: he had a different experience altogether, you know, of not
27:40
Speaker 3: really coming across anyone to connect with or talk to
27:45
Speaker 3: about this. So yeah, so I was I think it's
27:49
Speaker 3: because I was of that mind anyway, and also very
27:53
Speaker 3: a campaigning sort of person. I've been on campaigns before
27:56
Speaker 3: and only just stopped campaigning for Brexit, you know, and
28:01
Speaker 3: then I ended up meeting people of like mind, and
28:03
Speaker 3: so I think that's what it was.
28:05
Speaker 2: Really.
28:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's completely riveting. I can't imagine anyone listening to
28:08
Speaker 1: this falling out with anything that you've just said. And
28:12
Speaker 1: I feel that we could probably run a separate interview
28:14
Speaker 1: on your family history and indeed the views that have
28:18
Speaker 1: been held by members of your family going back through
28:21
Speaker 1: the years. And I think that's really significant because it
28:23
Speaker 1: does speak exactly to this idea of history even as
28:27
Speaker 1: it's being made, being utterly obfuscated. And you've referred to
28:31
Speaker 1: Boris Johnson, the clown in chief, who of course was
28:34
Speaker 1: at least nominally the man that unleashed this torrent of
28:40
Speaker 1: cruelty and chaos on the nation. And I think there
28:44
Speaker 1: is no better illustration of the insanity and the twisting
28:49
Speaker 1: of history than thinking you've talked about Brexit. I mean,
28:52
Speaker 1: just consider what the media did between December twenty nineteen
28:59
Speaker 1: and January February twenty twenty. That man and his government
29:04
Speaker 1: were being utterly reviled by the media, who said that
29:07
Speaker 1: they weren't to trust. No one was to trust a
29:09
Speaker 1: single word they said, because of the supposed lies about
29:12
Speaker 1: Brexit and this, that and the other. And lo and behold,
29:16
Speaker 1: a deadly little virus is said to have popped up
29:20
Speaker 1: in China and suddenly all that's brushed to one side,
29:23
Speaker 1: and we are meant to believe every single word that
29:26
Speaker 1: the government say, and somehow people were carried along with that.
29:30
Speaker 1: Now that is absolutely extraordinary, but it does relate. I
29:34
Speaker 1: would say, absolutely directly to what you're talking about with
29:37
Speaker 1: your grandfather's wisdom, his points of view, and exactly like
29:42
Speaker 1: you say, going back to Leicester, which of course in
29:44
Speaker 1: the eighteen seventies was in fact quarantined and was treated
29:48
Speaker 1: as a sort of a test bed for a way
29:51
Speaker 1: in which illnesses could be dealt with. And I think
29:54
Speaker 1: what you're referring to was the National Anti Vaccination League,
29:57
Speaker 1: And exactly like you say, you know, vaccination, smallpox vaccinations
30:02
Speaker 1: were compulsory until I think at least the nineteen fifties,
30:06
Speaker 1: if not or the late nineteen forties. So yes, there's
30:09
Speaker 1: a huge amount there that I think people were totally
30:11
Speaker 1: unaware of. But sticking with the issue of timing and
30:15
Speaker 1: indeed the relationships with other people, I would say, and
30:21
Speaker 1: this is what I would like your view on. It
30:23
Speaker 1: is as though you absolutely hit that timing totally correctly
30:28
Speaker 1: in terms of your coalescing and interacting with other people
30:33
Speaker 1: of a similar mind, because and I don't know whether
30:36
Speaker 1: you would necessarily agree with this, but it does seem
30:38
Speaker 1: that say, particularly sort of since the end of twenty
30:41
Speaker 1: twenty three, that people who had had a strong reaction
30:45
Speaker 1: against government policy concerning what was described as COVID. They
30:50
Speaker 1: were very vehement at that point. But a lot of
30:52
Speaker 1: people have in effect sort of tailed off or stepped
30:55
Speaker 1: back or not really considered that there is such a
30:59
Speaker 1: pressing need. Do you sort of consider it in that
31:02
Speaker 1: light as though that your your band of forty eight
31:06
Speaker 1: effectively did the hit the road at the right time.
31:13
Speaker 3: Yes, I think so. I think really all the people
31:16
Speaker 3: I know have have carried.
31:17
Speaker 2: On board, I suppose. I mean, there have been some
31:22
Speaker 2: people that.
31:24
Speaker 3: You know are caught out by other things, you know,
31:26
Speaker 3: and you and I had this. I've got this lovely
31:29
Speaker 3: friend called Pam, and she said at the beginning that
31:33
Speaker 3: there was a divisive spirit that had come down that
31:38
Speaker 3: was trying to pull people apart. And I often think
31:41
Speaker 3: about what she says, because, you know, I have got
31:45
Speaker 3: three great friends, I suppose, best friends that I went
31:49
Speaker 3: to university with that fundamentally disagree with me about practically everything,
31:54
Speaker 3: you know, And I very nearly I don't know whether
31:57
Speaker 3: they realize it, but I very nearly broke off with
31:59
Speaker 3: them several times, you know, over the Brexit thing and everything.
32:03
Speaker 3: Not just that they disagreed with me, but they so
32:05
Speaker 3: vehemently disagree with me, and we're almost calling me a racist,
32:09
Speaker 3: you know, and you know, terrible things really, But I
32:14
Speaker 3: didn't And the same with this, this the vaccine thing,
32:19
Speaker 3: I didn't.
32:20
Speaker 2: I didn't.
32:21
Speaker 3: I kept friends with them, and you know, and there's
32:24
Speaker 3: some other people that that I've come across that have
32:26
Speaker 3: been absolutely with me about the anti lockdown, anti vaccines.
32:31
Speaker 3: But then I suddenly, you know, want to support a
32:34
Speaker 3: certain side in these these manufactured wars that are going on,
32:38
Speaker 3: and I just sort of think, how even for them
32:41
Speaker 3: to think that? But but but it hasn't made me
32:44
Speaker 3: fall out with them. And also it's made me because
32:47
Speaker 3: you probably can tell by my you know, cabbling on
32:52
Speaker 3: that I can be quite argumentative, but I think I'm
32:57
Speaker 3: less argumentative than I was before, sort of like just thinking, right, well,
33:03
Speaker 3: I'm going to stop now and just listen to what
33:05
Speaker 3: people say, and I'm not going to fall out with you,
33:07
Speaker 3: you know over it.
33:09
Speaker 1: I think this is completely relevant because we're talking about cohesion,
33:14
Speaker 1: and we're talking about a shared set of values, a
33:18
Speaker 1: shared view, and you have managed to do this with
33:23
Speaker 1: forty seven other people. Now that that is pretty remarkable,
33:27
Speaker 1: given that the result of that was never intended to
33:34
Speaker 1: be akin to what it might be if you were, say,
33:37
Speaker 1: starting a business. So I think it is well, of
33:42
Speaker 1: course it's unique. But just on that theme, what would
33:47
Speaker 1: be great is to think about that, you know, what
33:51
Speaker 1: is it? And I don't mean to be facetious about this,
33:54
Speaker 1: because obviously you're producing food, but I think you're producing
33:57
Speaker 1: much more than that. You know, you've talked about the
33:58
Speaker 1: social side of it. You talked about events and this,
34:01
Speaker 1: that and the other. What when you started to think
34:06
Speaker 1: about going into it, what did you think you wanted
34:10
Speaker 1: to get out of it? And how does that compare
34:12
Speaker 1: with what you are actually getting out of it? And
34:15
Speaker 1: I'm talking like everything, not just not just the food,
34:19
Speaker 1: all aspects of it. Just just give me an idea
34:22
Speaker 1: of that.
34:24
Speaker 3: Well, I think I I was very conscious that I
34:29
Speaker 3: might not be able to spend very much time there
34:31
Speaker 3: because I might not be able to get there, you see.
34:33
Speaker 3: So I was one of those ones, almost as if
34:35
Speaker 3: I lived a long way away, thinking I wanted to work.
34:40
Speaker 3: Really not necessarily for me, but I just want it
34:43
Speaker 3: to work. And then I want other people to have
34:47
Speaker 3: the other idea, and then we form an alternative society.
34:51
Speaker 2: With everybody doing that sort of thing. That's what I thought.
34:53
Speaker 3: I mean, I also trying to encourage my daughter to
34:56
Speaker 3: take our children out of school. That was going on
34:58
Speaker 3: as well, you know. So yeah, that was my initial
35:03
Speaker 3: thought really, so I wasn't concerning myself or worrying because
35:08
Speaker 3: I just thought, well, other people it'll work, they'll take
35:10
Speaker 3: it on and it'll grow, you know, lots of people
35:12
Speaker 3: younger than me. Because the other lovely thing about it
35:15
Speaker 3: was that if you joined, then you could bring your
35:18
Speaker 3: family there, you know, so basically if you had two
35:22
Speaker 3: or three children, it's like going to your own.
35:24
Speaker 2: Park every now and again. You know. So that was there.
35:27
Speaker 3: But then later on, when I realized that it was
35:30
Speaker 3: going to be when we got the land and it
35:31
Speaker 3: was near, then I thought, right, well I have an allotment.
35:34
Speaker 3: And then there was the worry of how would I
35:37
Speaker 3: spread my time out, you know, to do all these
35:39
Speaker 3: different things, and then of course it's ended up like
35:42
Speaker 3: it is. So I'm quite happy with it really, you know,
35:46
Speaker 3: because I only go once a month.
35:48
Speaker 2: Sometimes I go more from that, but mostly once a month.
35:52
Speaker 3: And you know, I initially I spent quite a lot
35:54
Speaker 3: of time because it was scrubland to begin with, so
35:57
Speaker 3: like you know, cutting down bram was digging up docs
36:01
Speaker 3: all that type of thing. But now it's not I
36:04
Speaker 3: don't really do others do much more than me now really, Yeah,
36:08
Speaker 3: so it's sort of like it's just gone into a
36:11
Speaker 3: sort of natural rhythm like that, really.
36:14
Speaker 2: You know, I mean, I have to say that it was.
36:17
Speaker 3: I so wanted it to work, but there was, as
36:22
Speaker 3: I said, disagreements before we got the land amongst some people.
36:26
Speaker 3: And then there are still about I think there's about
36:31
Speaker 3: seven people on board that want to come away from it,
36:34
Speaker 3: and you know, we can't really buy them out because
36:38
Speaker 3: we haven't got the money, so we have to just
36:40
Speaker 3: wait until somebody else wants to come into it. The
36:44
Speaker 3: other thing, I mean if in hindsight, I don't think
36:47
Speaker 3: we should have done. We formed a registered company, limited company.
36:53
Speaker 2: That was the term for it, isn't it. And that's
36:57
Speaker 2: caused problems.
36:58
Speaker 3: Obviously now because you've all got to digitally you know, register,
37:02
Speaker 3: haven't you. So that's caused a problem. But we're just
37:07
Speaker 3: we're still going with it. We can't really get out
37:10
Speaker 3: of it until well until probably the people who want
37:15
Speaker 3: to buy out sell out have sold out, and then
37:18
Speaker 3: we can perhaps re look at that issue and do that. Yeah,
37:22
Speaker 3: so it's not you know, I think you know, obviously,
37:27
Speaker 3: as you said, it's a lot of people. We're not
37:29
Speaker 3: all going to have the same personality. We're going to
37:32
Speaker 3: fall out, you know. And so there have been people
37:35
Speaker 3: that have come, haven't been comfortable and have gone away,
37:38
Speaker 3: and then there've been some you know, not very nice
37:40
Speaker 3: comments that have been put sometimes on the telegram link,
37:42
Speaker 3: you know, so you know that's it's not always been
37:46
Speaker 3: smooth sailing. But but my philosophy is that the main
37:51
Speaker 3: thing is if you come to the land regularly and
37:55
Speaker 3: form the community with those that do the farming, then
37:59
Speaker 3: it's to work, you know. So I mean where I volunteer,
38:04
Speaker 3: it's similar there. You know, people don't always get on,
38:07
Speaker 3: you know, sometimes people will leave, but generally day to
38:13
Speaker 3: day you get in on with what you're doing. You know,
38:15
Speaker 3: you're feeding the chickens, you're having a little social celebration,
38:20
Speaker 3: you're bringing food share and it just works because it's
38:23
Speaker 3: a natural way of living, isn't it.
38:25
Speaker 2: You see, That's what it is.
38:27
Speaker 1: It is totally. And what I would like to pick
38:30
Speaker 1: up on there is you're well, going back to the
38:33
Speaker 1: remark you were making, earlier about the friends of yours
38:35
Speaker 1: that you considered breaking off contact with. And I think
38:40
Speaker 1: this again is a really significant part of it, which
38:43
Speaker 1: I would say goes back to certainly well before twenty twenty.
38:46
Speaker 1: And of course you've referenced the vote on the European Union,
38:50
Speaker 1: and if we think of the awful splits in relationships
38:54
Speaker 1: between families and friends and whatnot in Scotland when they
38:57
Speaker 1: were voting on the potential sort of Scots independence from
39:01
Speaker 1: the Union, and this, that and the other, what we're
39:03
Speaker 1: talking about really is radicalization, the idea that people cannot
39:07
Speaker 1: agree to disagree and I would say, whether sort of
39:12
Speaker 1: conscious or not, your maintenance of the in a way
39:18
Speaker 1: the moral high ground, and deciding that you're not going
39:21
Speaker 1: to dispense with a friendship because of such disagreements, I
39:26
Speaker 1: think really is a sort of implicit acknowledgment at least
39:30
Speaker 1: of the fact that people have been radicalized by the governments,
39:34
Speaker 1: the corporations, the media and all of this. And I
39:36
Speaker 1: think this is a terrific and ongoing problem in society.
39:41
Speaker 1: And it therefore is no great surprise that you're finding
39:44
Speaker 1: that there are some sorts of disagreements between the forty
39:47
Speaker 1: eight of you. But if you are able to work
39:49
Speaker 1: your way through them, then I think that's the significant
39:52
Speaker 1: thing now to go from, you know, the journey that
39:57
Speaker 1: we've explored so far, which is essentially the drive, the aspiration,
40:02
Speaker 1: and then the beginnings of the practical development. You've obviously
40:05
Speaker 1: spent time working your own allotment. You've spent time working
40:08
Speaker 1: on a organic farm. You will have a certain amount
40:10
Speaker 1: of experience in terms of let's say, agriculture and horticulture,
40:14
Speaker 1: how our decisions arrived at and how in so far
40:18
Speaker 1: as technique is concerned, in terms of producing food from
40:24
Speaker 1: the plot, How are you making that happen? How do
40:28
Speaker 1: you decide that? What are you what sort of processes
40:32
Speaker 1: are you following?
40:34
Speaker 2: Well, I mean it's not really me.
40:35
Speaker 3: It's these these six to eight that come every very often, really,
40:41
Speaker 3: I mean two of them in particular, a couple I
40:45
Speaker 3: don't think really it'd come done very much gardening before
40:48
Speaker 3: at all. You know, the one chap that's built, the compost,
40:51
Speaker 3: toilet and lots of the buildings there. So you didn't
40:55
Speaker 3: like gardening. He just didn't like gardening, you know. When
40:58
Speaker 3: we first met him, and his skill was turning big
41:03
Speaker 3: vans into camper vans. That's what he did for a living,
41:05
Speaker 3: you know. And then his partner went on a course.
41:10
Speaker 3: We met at this this big place where we met
41:14
Speaker 3: overnight actually, and then in the morning we listened to
41:17
Speaker 3: somebody who talked to us about common law. But it
41:21
Speaker 3: was actually an off grid place. And this this lady,
41:24
Speaker 3: she she stayed and did a course there, you know,
41:29
Speaker 3: and then they both got a comp got an allotment together.
41:34
Speaker 3: And you know, I haven't actually been sick, but they've
41:38
Speaker 3: shown us pictures of it.
41:38
Speaker 2: It's just amazing.
41:39
Speaker 3: It's almost as if they just applied their intelligence to
41:43
Speaker 3: this new venture of.
41:44
Speaker 2: Garden, which they hadn't done before. You know.
41:47
Speaker 3: Then they joined the Bardynamic Society because of the links
41:51
Speaker 3: from you know that's in our area, you see, because
41:54
Speaker 3: we had a style a school in our area and
41:58
Speaker 3: and a leader which is Stein of Health Center.
42:01
Speaker 2: So and so they joined that. So we've introduced those
42:06
Speaker 2: sorts of elements to the gardener.
42:07
Speaker 3: We had a chap called Joe who is retired now,
42:12
Speaker 3: but he ran a bardonamic farm in Leicestershire and he
42:18
Speaker 3: he was interested. He was the one that gave us
42:20
Speaker 3: his old polytunnel for free. Then we had somebody from
42:25
Speaker 3: from the leader who came and yeah, we had one
42:28
Speaker 3: whole day because I mean it was practically a lear
42:30
Speaker 3: where it was still scrubb and we were still just
42:32
Speaker 3: thinking about it and coming and doing bits and bobs,
42:34
Speaker 3: you know. And he came and surveyed the land for us,
42:37
Speaker 3: and you know it was quite like there was lots
42:40
Speaker 3: of spiritual elements to it, really, and yeah, and so
42:45
Speaker 3: and then we've got another chap who has had experience
42:49
Speaker 3: in gardening, who's very very good. It's just we just
42:56
Speaker 3: I suppose we've just gathered ideas together. And you know,
42:59
Speaker 3: the polyte is very much like the one at my
43:01
Speaker 3: organic farm, and you know, we we we just take
43:07
Speaker 3: bits of advice. Lots of us all grows the seedlings
43:11
Speaker 3: at home because we haven't got we have not got
43:13
Speaker 3: a greenhouse, but we have obviously got this polygonal. Yeah,
43:17
Speaker 3: and we just we've just learned things, I suppose, you know,
43:22
Speaker 3: we just we've just acquired ways of doing it. We
43:25
Speaker 3: came across this the other place where I help in
43:28
Speaker 3: works with they decided to do no dig, you know,
43:32
Speaker 3: which was I was amazed that that worked. It's because
43:35
Speaker 3: they were on a small holes in any way, they
43:37
Speaker 3: had access to all this manure and they just put
43:40
Speaker 3: cardboard just straight down on all this mown grass and
43:45
Speaker 3: this put this manure on, didn't have any composts or anything,
43:48
Speaker 3: and they put things straight into it, and I was
43:51
Speaker 3: just amazed. It just grew. And because on my allotment,
43:57
Speaker 3: we have so many pigeons, we have to net every thing.
44:00
Speaker 3: But they didn't have them, seem to have them there.
44:02
Speaker 3: So they grew loads of brassacres and huge pumpkins and marrows,
44:10
Speaker 3: you know.
44:10
Speaker 2: So that was amazing.
44:13
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I think it was just it was really yeah,
44:17
Speaker 3: just by just by doing it, I suppose.
44:20
Speaker 2: Really.
44:21
Speaker 1: Yes, Well, I tell you what, I think that's a
44:23
Speaker 1: that's a very important point to bring out, because I
44:26
Speaker 1: think what I'm taking from that is that you are
44:30
Speaker 1: adapting to and going along with the conditions that you
44:35
Speaker 1: find before you, rather than subscribing to or adhering to
44:40
Speaker 1: a fixed template, a fixed system. And the reason I
44:44
Speaker 1: mentioned this is I think that there has been also
44:48
Speaker 1: an attempt, let's say, or a philosophy which I dare
44:52
Speaker 1: say is is well intentioned, that people can establish sort
44:58
Speaker 1: of new which is in effect a rehash of the existing,
45:04
Speaker 1: you know, sort of centralization, and you know, I would
45:08
Speaker 1: say that's problematic for a number of reasons. But I
45:12
Speaker 1: think the overall principles of what you're doing, I dare say,
45:14
Speaker 1: are shared by many many others who have entered into things.
45:18
Speaker 1: But I think based on the desired outcome from this interview,
45:23
Speaker 1: which is that people listen to what you're describing and
45:26
Speaker 1: are inspired and encouraged to think, well, I could do that,
45:30
Speaker 1: and actually I could do it like that, or I
45:33
Speaker 1: could do it slightly differently. And there's there's not really
45:37
Speaker 1: a rule book as such, and yet you're demonstrating that
45:42
Speaker 1: from a standing start it absolutely can be achieved. And
45:46
Speaker 1: I think it's really interesting to hear about other places
45:48
Speaker 1: that you've visited where they are doing different things and
45:52
Speaker 1: they're achieving results, but just slightly different ones. And I
45:55
Speaker 1: think that's a really important point to make, is that
45:58
Speaker 1: really you're following a principle rather than necessarily a sort
46:04
Speaker 1: of set of rules or guidelines. Yeah. Now, the other
46:10
Speaker 1: thing that I think one, you know, we must you
46:13
Speaker 1: mentioned this dreadful term leveling up, or at least dreadful,
46:19
Speaker 1: dreadfully misleading term leveling up, and I was just going
46:22
Speaker 1: to explore that a little bit more, because of course
46:25
Speaker 1: we are very obviously to anyone who's paying attention in
46:29
Speaker 1: a period of time that has involved an absolute reshaping
46:34
Speaker 1: of the idea of ownership and use of land. And
46:38
Speaker 1: I think the way that really we described on UK
46:40
Speaker 1: column is as a land grab, whether through the perhaps
46:46
Speaker 1: overarching Agenda twenty thirty or the Terror Carta or the
46:50
Speaker 1: various bits of legislation that come out, but essentially all
46:53
Speaker 1: land must be considered as being under threat. Now just
46:57
Speaker 1: tell me your story about the about leveling up.
47:01
Speaker 3: Well as I say, I voted for Boris Johnson, and
47:05
Speaker 3: you know he said leveling up. We thought leveling up
47:07
Speaker 3: meant that the poorer boroughs would get some money to
47:11
Speaker 3: lift them up to the richer boroughs. You know, That's
47:13
Speaker 3: what he didn't actually explain, did he. But where I live,
47:19
Speaker 3: which is just on the Nothamshire border, I don't know
47:23
Speaker 3: whether I should say the name I live in Well.
47:25
Speaker 2: I live in Kimberly in Nottinghamshire.
47:27
Speaker 3: And I used to be on the council, the parish council,
47:32
Speaker 3: but I came off. It was a conflict of it
47:35
Speaker 3: not I mean a difference of opinion because we were
47:39
Speaker 3: given some leveling up money which was patently ridiculous.
47:42
Speaker 2: You know, where we live.
47:44
Speaker 3: There's the town of Eastward, which is famous for where
47:48
Speaker 3: de Laurance was born actually, but that's quite a poor town,
47:52
Speaker 3: need needy, very needy of money. Kimberly is a much
47:57
Speaker 3: smaller town, not so needy really. And then there's another
48:01
Speaker 3: town called Ilkeston, which is just across the border in Derbyshire,
48:05
Speaker 3: very needy of money. And everybody was had to set
48:09
Speaker 3: to to bid for this money, you know. So some
48:13
Speaker 3: good and true people in Ilkstman came together and thought
48:16
Speaker 3: of all these ideas that the money could be spent on.
48:18
Speaker 3: And anyway, Kimberly was given six and a half million
48:21
Speaker 3: pounds and it was for bonkers things really.
48:25
Speaker 2: You know.
48:26
Speaker 3: One of it was to victorianize the high street, which
48:28
Speaker 3: is already victorian, but also give it a twenty first
48:32
Speaker 3: century lighting system which involved holograms, you know.
48:37
Speaker 2: And then there was the demolition of the parish.
48:40
Speaker 3: Hall and a rebuilding one of three stories high. We thought,
48:44
Speaker 3: perhaps with a dungeon for people like us, you know.
48:48
Speaker 2: And then there was this.
48:50
Speaker 3: Cycle and footpath over to Beneley Viaduct which Benley Viaduct
48:54
Speaker 3: is our big structure in our area, which has been
48:57
Speaker 3: recently by volunteers brought back to sort of Amos's world
49:02
Speaker 3: herity status.
49:03
Speaker 2: So it's a wonderful thing. But there was no need.
49:05
Speaker 3: For a psycle path or a pedestrian path there because
49:09
Speaker 3: you can just get there by foot really easily, you know.
49:13
Speaker 3: But you know, but now we went back to the
49:17
Speaker 3: council recently and they just we felt like having told
49:20
Speaker 3: you so bad, John, because they said, our our district
49:22
Speaker 3: council's taking the money and they're spending it as they
49:24
Speaker 3: want and we haven't got the control of it anymore.
49:27
Speaker 3: But we are actually campaigning as we speak about this
49:31
Speaker 3: huge horrid thing that they want to put all over
49:35
Speaker 3: the green Belt just by Benley Viaduct. And there's all,
49:41
Speaker 3: you know, suspicions that the.
49:44
Speaker 2: Level of nut money is going there. I don't know
49:47
Speaker 2: whether that's going to be a data central.
49:48
Speaker 3: I mean, we've got a lovely, wonderful, wonderful campaign group there.
49:53
Speaker 2: Campaigning for it.
49:54
Speaker 1: Yes, I mean always described i think much more accurately
49:59
Speaker 1: by Mikebinson as leveling down because that's really the result
50:03
Speaker 1: of it. Yes, gosh, well, I'll tell you what an
50:07
Speaker 1: interesting intersection. You know. It is remarkable how in a
50:10
Speaker 1: conversation that is ostensibly about growing food, how many other
50:13
Speaker 1: issues come into it. And I think that that absolutely
50:17
Speaker 1: drives to the heart of what it is you're doing,
50:20
Speaker 1: in so far as it was a response to what
50:24
Speaker 1: you saw as going very far wrong and has been
50:27
Speaker 1: in a way your ability to do what you can
50:29
Speaker 1: to try to correct that, at least you know, for yourself,
50:32
Speaker 1: at your at the individual level. Now on that, I mean,
50:35
Speaker 1: you've already spoken about somebody you know UK, another UK
50:38
Speaker 1: column member getting in touch with you and effectively being
50:40
Speaker 1: inspired not just to take an interest, but also to act.
50:43
Speaker 1: And my hope is that people listening to this will
50:47
Speaker 1: be similarly prompted. Now I'm not wishing to inflict a
50:51
Speaker 1: deluge of correspondence upon you, but what I would like
50:54
Speaker 1: to do is just to give you the chance really
50:57
Speaker 1: to talk about the benefits and indeed to offer sort
51:01
Speaker 1: of I'm not sure whether advice is quite the right word,
51:04
Speaker 1: because I do want to stay away from the notion
51:08
Speaker 1: that this should be a prescriptive process. I think what
51:12
Speaker 1: you're suggesting is that you as a group have you know,
51:16
Speaker 1: very much found your own way, and I think that
51:18
Speaker 1: would be quite right as an approach. But if you
51:22
Speaker 1: do have words of if not advice, then certainly encouragement
51:27
Speaker 1: to anybody who is thinking about such a thing. What
51:32
Speaker 1: would you say, Yeah, I.
51:35
Speaker 3: Think that if you can come together and hash it
51:40
Speaker 3: all out, you know. I mean we had a really
51:43
Speaker 3: good plan actually, you know, it was all written down
51:46
Speaker 3: what we wanted to do. And yeah, it wasn't down
51:52
Speaker 3: to me. It was down to these four people that
51:55
Speaker 3: thought of the idea to sort of like basically you
52:01
Speaker 3: just think in a very sort of humble way, you
52:03
Speaker 3: only really need two acres of land. I mean ours
52:07
Speaker 3: is less than two acres even an acre an acre
52:09
Speaker 3: of land, maybe even less, And to just sort of
52:15
Speaker 3: like own it, I think it is the thing. And
52:19
Speaker 3: then if there's like sort of a you only need
52:22
Speaker 3: like ten of you, eight of you to sort of
52:26
Speaker 3: make a commitment to maybe go once a week to
52:28
Speaker 3: begin with, or twice a week, and you just all
52:33
Speaker 3: mucking together, you see, and it's sort of good fun.
52:36
Speaker 3: I mean, if you've got some children aboard, and that's
52:39
Speaker 3: fantastic as well. I often think if we could just
52:41
Speaker 3: get some children out of school and help us. You know,
52:45
Speaker 3: it's amazing what you can do. And the satisfaction is
52:47
Speaker 3: just because I mean, when we first walked on to
52:49
Speaker 3: our land, it was like just shrub lands. It was
52:52
Speaker 3: just all this tough grass and couch grass and you know,
52:57
Speaker 3: docks and nettles and everything, you know, lots and lots
53:00
Speaker 3: of lovely trees. But they were all over the place, you.
53:02
Speaker 2: Know, And it wasn't me.
53:05
Speaker 3: I mean, there's wonderful chaps who just did this, you know,
53:10
Speaker 3: but we all you know, you muck in, don't you,
53:12
Speaker 3: and your help and you you know, help. If you
53:16
Speaker 3: can't chop the trees, you can help carry the stuff
53:18
Speaker 3: and make a compost heap of it all. And you know,
53:22
Speaker 3: and we've got pond. So yeah, it's it's just it's
53:29
Speaker 3: just starting yourself off, really, you know. Yeah, I mean,
53:34
Speaker 3: I know, I know people can do it with allotments,
53:36
Speaker 3: but I think it's the fact that we own it.
53:39
Speaker 3: It's the fact that you know, we own this land.
53:41
Speaker 2: It's ours. You can go there wherever whenever you.
53:45
Speaker 3: Like, you know, if you can, you know, if you
53:47
Speaker 3: haven't got much of a garden, you can take your
53:49
Speaker 3: children there, can't you?
53:50
Speaker 1: And yeah, I think this is it. I think people
53:54
Speaker 1: will that that element of it. I think people really
53:57
Speaker 1: will grasp and because when we trace it back, you
54:02
Speaker 1: know what's brought you to this point. If I don't
54:06
Speaker 1: want to put words in your mouth, but essentially, twenty
54:09
Speaker 1: twenty for almost everybody represented a complete loss of control
54:13
Speaker 1: over their lives. In the direction of their lives. I
54:16
Speaker 1: think government interference exactly as you articulate in terms of
54:21
Speaker 1: what your grandfather had said many years ago and identified.
54:24
Speaker 1: And actually the comments about Churchill are especially interesting, but
54:27
Speaker 1: let's not get distracted by that just now. But the
54:30
Speaker 1: point is that whilst governments may have been acting nefariously
54:34
Speaker 1: since the dawn of time, in actual fact, the degree
54:41
Speaker 1: of control that the individual retained over their life was
54:45
Speaker 1: not really profoundly altered until that point in twenty twenty, certainly,
54:50
Speaker 1: and I'm talking about living memory. I mean, obviously going back,
54:53
Speaker 1: perhaps those old enough to recall the restrictions on liberty
55:00
Speaker 1: and whatnot during the Second World War may take a
55:02
Speaker 1: slightly different view, but I think we all know what
55:04
Speaker 1: I'm talking about, and really you're representing, what you know,
55:10
Speaker 1: an antidote to that, in so far as you have
55:12
Speaker 1: a plot of land over which you do have control
55:16
Speaker 1: and that opens up a huge amount of liberty for
55:21
Speaker 1: you in so many aspects of your life. And I
55:23
Speaker 1: think you've really exemplified that so well. But Susan, what
55:27
Speaker 1: I would suggest, because obviously we know that the UK
55:31
Speaker 1: column community website there will be a forum below this,
55:35
Speaker 1: and therefore it will be superb if people who are
55:37
Speaker 1: members are able to contribute their experiences and to offer
55:42
Speaker 1: advice and offer support, and that we can generate a
55:44
Speaker 1: conversation that way. I think to anyone who's not Yes
55:46
Speaker 1: UK column member, obviously police consider joining as a UK
55:49
Speaker 1: column member, but really as an appeal because I think
55:53
Speaker 1: we want to capitalize on the momentum that we can
55:56
Speaker 1: gain from this. I would really encourage people who are
55:59
Speaker 1: doing similar things to get in touch with me Charles
56:02
Speaker 1: at UK column dot org and share that experience. Is
56:06
Speaker 1: that you know, we want to be able to showcase this,
56:08
Speaker 1: but as I say, not in a prescriptive sense, just
56:11
Speaker 1: to get a sense of what else is going on
56:14
Speaker 1: out there, and exactly to do what you described, to
56:17
Speaker 1: set up that domino effect where people hear about it
56:19
Speaker 1: and think, oh gosh, well that's near me. That's absolutely
56:22
Speaker 1: something I'd like to do. So let's say we can
56:25
Speaker 1: continue that, Susan.
56:26
Speaker 2: Yeah. And also it's like the networking thing, isn't it.
56:28
Speaker 2: You know?
56:30
Speaker 3: I mean there's actually a chat where I volunteer that
56:33
Speaker 3: tries to network with other organic farms.
56:35
Speaker 2: And yeah, I mean that was one of our initial things.
56:37
Speaker 3: You say that, you know, because I mean I suppose
56:40
Speaker 3: in the broader sense, if it really took off, you'd
56:42
Speaker 3: have certain people doing certain things so you didn't overlap
56:45
Speaker 3: with each other. Wouldn't you grow in certain because we
56:48
Speaker 3: had a glut of tomatoes for example, you know, and
56:51
Speaker 3: we were deciding what to do. You know, I don't
56:54
Speaker 3: think we ended up putting them outside.
56:56
Speaker 2: You know.
56:56
Speaker 3: You know, it's little minute things that people saw of
57:00
Speaker 3: have several ideas over and then you might disagree, but
57:03
Speaker 3: we all but it comes to a conclusion in the end,
57:05
Speaker 3: and it's all okay. I mean we the two members
57:09
Speaker 3: are the ones that originally started at these ones that
57:12
Speaker 3: I was telling you, you know, built the compost towards
57:16
Speaker 3: They have turned their minds as well as to gardening,
57:19
Speaker 3: to how to can tomatoes, and they taught us all
57:21
Speaker 3: how to do it. Well, it's jarring, really, isn't it
57:24
Speaker 3: putting them in jars at tops on? Yeah, so that
57:26
Speaker 3: was amazing.
57:27
Speaker 1: I think I think amazing is a great note to
57:30
Speaker 1: sort of draw to a close on because we are
57:31
Speaker 1: we are more or less out of time. But I
57:36
Speaker 1: think this is it. You've You've just hit upon another
57:38
Speaker 1: really critical point there, which is that you're always learning
57:41
Speaker 1: and you're always developing. And Susan, I would just say
57:44
Speaker 1: thank you very much indeed for joining me and for
57:46
Speaker 1: imparting what really must be considered to be a wealth
57:50
Speaker 1: of knowledge and wisdom, even though it might not feel
57:53
Speaker 1: like that to you. I guarantee that people listening will
57:56
Speaker 1: have taken so much from that because you haven't just
58:00
Speaker 1: thought about it, molded over and made a plan. You've
58:02
Speaker 1: actually gone through those stages and done it and stuck
58:06
Speaker 1: with it. And I think that is that is fantastic.
58:09
Speaker 1: So thank you very much indeed for joining me.
58:11
Speaker 2: Yes, that's thank you, thank you.
58:13
Speaker 1: The UK Column is very pleased to have announced the
58:15
Speaker 1: first issue of a print magazine, a quarterly called The Column,
58:20
Speaker 1: So please go to shop dot UK column dot org
58:23
Speaker 1: to find out more and get your hands on a copy.