Latest / The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast / #290: Tristan Smith-St. Mary's (MA) High School

Transcript

#290: Tristan Smith-St. Mary's (MA) High School · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

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  Track and field world juvenile tuned in to our humble servant
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  Mike Cunningham for another extraordinary message or Guild
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  athletics connections. All right, here we go back.
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  You press play. I'm always surprised you press
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  play once again here on the Gil Athletics Connections podcast.
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  So grateful that you join us once again.
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  I'm your host, Mike Cunningham, National Business development
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  manager for Gil Athletics, but probably better known that well,
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  better known as probably two things.
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  One, the podcast guy. So that's, you know, it's pretty
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  easy. And the Twitter guy.
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  That's where you know, most people know me and you know, I
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  basically just live on on Twitter with and with, with and
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  without all its faults. To be real, real Frank with you
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  there. Exciting for today, man.
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  This was a nomination and I'm always just stoked when someone
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  nominates someone else for the podcast Means a lot.
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  This young man today was actually nominated by someone he
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  doesn't know. And I think that's I think
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  that's even cooler because that shows you the impact you guys
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  and gals are making as track coaches that there are people
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  that you don't even know are seeing what you're doing.
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  And I think that's so cool. So help me welcome from I know
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  so little. I think you said Massachusetts,
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  right? That's right from Saint Mary's.
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  There it is. Lynn, MA, help me welcome from
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  Saint Mary's High School. The wise, the wonderful Mr.
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  Tristan Smith. Tristan, how are you, Sir?
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  I'm great, Mike, how are you? Man, I am doing, I, I do this
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  for a living, so I know, yeah. A pretty good gig.
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  Yeah, it's like a cheat code. Absolutely Trista, I didn't even
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  ask you this before in our pre recording here, our pre
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  interview. Are you head coach?
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  Assistant coach at Saint Mary's? I'm the head coach of boys and
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  girls cross country, indoor and outdoor.
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  Oh, you do it all. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, we.
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  Do it all, yeah. It's New England.
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  We we do it all right. Exactly right.
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  Massive. I'm trying to think we we were
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  talking earlier in our pre interview.
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  We did a series here on the Connections podcast back in the
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  spring. I think it was March, April, I
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  think it was. I don't think it maybe April,
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  May sometime this spring. Anyway, if you just Google it or
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  in the podcast app that you're listening right now, we went out
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  and interviewed a coach, a high school coach from every state
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  out there, including Washington, DC.
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  So 51 episodes, about 15 to 30 minutes each to talk about their
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  outdoor state meet. And I'm trying to think
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  Massachusetts was one of those real unique ones.
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  Is that the one? Do you guys have the pentathlon?
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  Yeah. I remember that that had you.
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  I remember you were blown away. First of all, I love it.
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  I. Am too.
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  Yeah, love that high school has an opportunity to do any kind of
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  multi combined event. That's so cool.
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  The thing that was tripping me up again, this is, you know,
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  correct where my memory has gone wrong because I did 51 of those
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  plus, yeah, probably 5050 regular episodes in between that
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  and I've slept a day or two between that.
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  So you have the Pentaplon, which is five events, very cool.
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  But you also have a rule something like each athlete can
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  only do 3 events and one of those events can be the
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  combined. So they could technically do, I
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  guess you know, 5, the five events of Pentaplon plus two
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  other events. So it would be 7, but you can't
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  do more than 3. Is that right?
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  Is that where? Where's my?
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  I believe that's the rule. I I mean, it changes.
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  It's changed the past couple years.
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  Yeah, Yeah, yeah. That's.
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  Been, I think, a point of debate.
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  It was the Pentathlon One event. Yeah, yeah, which it should be,
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  but you, you the athletes should be able to do more than three
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  event. I mean, these are young kids.
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  I mean there's other states are doing 5 events for crying out
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  loud. So yeah, it just was funny.
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  I was like, so wait a minute. So you can, if you can do the
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  pentathlon in two other events, but you can't do 4, right.
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  Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true.
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  Love it. I love it though.
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  It's really cool. So if you're interested, go back
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  like. So we did all 51 with
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  Washington, DC and I was telling Tristan before we hit record
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  here, I thought when I started on that journey of that project,
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  like, oh, you know, little tweaks here and there between
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  States and I couldn't have been more wrong.
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  I mean, we have two states that do the shuttle hurdle relay for
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  the state meet. I love that.
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  That's my favorite event. We have a couple of states that
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  do multis. We have a couple states that do
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  multis unofficially. So after the state meet, I think
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  Connecticut, maybe Vermont, Alabama, those, those guys do
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  have large traditions there relay events.
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  I would does 7 relays for their statement because you got a clue
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  that shuttle hurdle, it was just fantastic.
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  It was absolutely awesome. I highly recommend you go back
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  and check that out. But today we're here to talk
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  about you, Tristan. Let's get back on topic here.
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  I'm the king of rants and raves and and going off here.
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  Part of our sport. Yeah, there's so much.
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  Turning around and seeing some other event going on.
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  That's right. That's right.
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  So Tristan, like I said, man, congratulations.
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  You were nominated for the podcast, man, that's a big deal.
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  Someone thought highly enough of you that you know, we only get
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  52 of these a year. So you know, it's a, it's a 152.
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  You're 152. I don't know if you're a math
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  teacher, I'm not 152 of the whole year is going to be
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  Tristan. And I think that's a big deal,
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  man. So congratulations on being
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  nominated. That's a big deal.
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  Thank you very man, I do I do take that that seriously into
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  heart because I do enjoy this podcast and I do know, you know,
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  it's one a week and so it'll be considered amongst so many who
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  are involved in this sport really does mean a lot and I I
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  mean that. So thank you Mike for for having
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  me on. Absolutely.
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  Love it. Love it, love it.
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  So let's get started here, man. You know my favorite.
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  Yeah, I'm a Marvel guy. So my favorite movies in the
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  whole Marvel series is always the their first one, right?
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  The origin story. Like how did Tony Stark become
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  Iron Man and how did Peter Parker become Spider Man?
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  How does Tristan get into track and field?
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  Where does track and field start for you?
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  Sure. So it's, it started for me in
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  high school, but it it sort of started before high school in
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  terms of growing up and trying all the other sports and
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  realizing that track was really, really the direction I was going
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  to go in. You know, I started that Little
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  League. My dad was the coach.
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  I mean, you know, it was great that I was mostly there to hang
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  out with friends. I struck out a lot.
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  I didn't like striking out. Then I started getting tall.
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  So I tried soccer. I tried basketball to to
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  definitely more success. And then in 7th grade, I really
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  wanted to play football because that's what the tough guys did.
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  That's what the cool guys did. And on Fridays, because we'd
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  have games on Sundays, you know, you'd give your away jersey to a
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  girl to wear and, and we were in 7th grade.
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  But for me, that was a huge deal, a humongous deal.
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  So I went out for football, could not learn the plays.
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  I wasn't great at tackling. I'm not a big, I'm not a big
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  contact sport guy. I didn't love the contact.
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  So coach said Smitty, they called me Smitty.
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  He said, Smitty, we're going to put you at safety and all I want
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  you to do is don't let anyone get behind you.
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  So there's a big play. If a guy's running off, just go
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  get him. And I had maybe 4 tackles on the
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  season, but a lot of them were sort of the defense breaks down
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  on the guys taking off and I, I hawked him down every time.
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  So I realized I, I'm not particularly coordinated.
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  I'm not really, I'm not great at, I don't like contact, but
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  I'm, but I'm pretty fast. So freshman year I went out for
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  outdoor track and track speed is different from being the fastest
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  on the soccer team or the football team.
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  Track speed is, is different. So I wasn't quite especially as
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  a freshman. And now I'm competing against
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  sophomores, junior seniors. I wasn't quite fast enough to
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  make my to earn a spot on the four by one team, so to speak.
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  But again, I'm pretty tall. I'm I'm 6 two.
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  I've been tall. I hit a growth spurt early.
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  So I've been tall. And so coach said, have you it
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  was coach Supai. I'll never forget.
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  He said, have you Why don't you try the hurdles?
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  We were for some. It must have been raining.
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  We were indoors. I'll never forget this.
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  And he sent me over with Coach Hatch and all he said was, and I
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  do this now as a coach, the first time he just puts up a
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  hurdle, maybe one click up and says, jump over that hurdle.
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  And so I did. And it's amazing how naturally,
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  you know, a lead leg, how it comes and a trail leg comes and
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  you know, that I have a foot that I favor jumping off of.
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  And I just, I remember it was a Friday again, for some reason,
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  we were indoors even though it was outdoor track.
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  And I got in the car and I was like, mom, like Coach Hatch
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  says, I have some potential in the hurdles.
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  And it was very exciting. So from there I wasn't great off
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  the bat. But stay, stay there though,
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  because I, you know, that's pretty special.
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  What I love that is, you know, that was some years ago and
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  you've had a lot of experiences and giving other people a lot of
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  experiences. But I, I could tell by your face
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  and the way you told the story. You remember that day like that
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  was like you were playing that movie in your head.
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  Like, Oh, I remember indoors. I remember the hurdle coach
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  saying go, that's really, that's really special.
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  You know, that experience. I love that you're a hurdler.
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  I didn't, you know, I didn't know that that's my favorite.
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  You know, I, I tried to be a hurdler.
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  My experience was a lot different.
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  We had the exact same our, our password, the very same until
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  you said there was some naturalness for you.
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  There was no, my, my coach put up like 4 hurdles all the way up
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  at 39 and was like, go and you know, you know, bad hurdlers
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  take 5 steps in between. I think I was at like 10.
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  I, I was just, you know, as many as like I was just trying to
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  survive and, you know, jumping over and there was no, there was
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  no like, Oh yeah, maybe this guy could be a hurdler.
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  I just really wanted to be a hurdler.
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  So, you know, we did it. And, you know, probably, you
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  probably had this maybe a similar experience.
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  We, we all want to please our coach, you know, so when I got
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  done with the, that set of four, you know, I looked at him like,
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  you know, I'm waiting for like, you know, he's like, that's not
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  bad. He goes try it again and so, you
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  know, I went again and you know, I just hit the the last hurdle
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  and just Oh yeah, piffed. And it was an old the old
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  recycled tire type track. So you know, I just got Rd. rash
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  all over. But I hop up, you know, and he's
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  like, you know, Cunningham, you keep working and you going to be
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  shoo shoo. I was, I mean, I was excited.
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  Like that was the same as someone saying I was going to be
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  an Olympic gold medalist. I I I was so excited, Tristan.
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  I ran all the way home. No, no joke.
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  Yeah, I lived across the street, but not that impressive.
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  But I raised great feeling and my brother was there and I was
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  like Brian, Brian. I was like coach said I could
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  be. Now my brother who's not
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  actually my brother, he's just my best friend forever is like
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  families. My brother.
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  Yeah, he looks, he's so real. He looks at me.
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  He goes, what the Hell's that mean?
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  We were from Alabama. And I was like, yeah, I don't
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  know. And still to this day, I still
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  don't really. I kind of think I know.
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  Yeah, Yeah. But yeah, it.
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  It only got worse there, by the way.
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  Yeah, Only got worse. Only got worse.
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  So coach, you said coach, say his name again.
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  So Coach Soupe was working with some of the freshmen, right?
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  And I, we were doing like hand offs.
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  It was something, but it was something where I was like the
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  fifth fastest guy there. And he said, why don't you go
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  over with Coach Hatch and try the hurdles?
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  So they kind of, and so I did and, and they're, you know,
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  they're both old school guys. You know, I had no idea what I
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  was doing, but you know, I, I, I went over and again, it just, it
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  just, it improved from there. I think it definitely helps
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  that. Do do you, you know, looking
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  back, did you have some naturalness to it?
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  Like did you like, like, I didn't like it looked like I was
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  jumping a hurdle. Did it look like did it look
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  like you were hurdling? It's hard to know.
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  I think so. I know that the concept of the
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  trail leg and the, the trail leg's awful, but the lead leg
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  came really naturally to me. I think just like vaulting and
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  then, you know, jumping over stuff, jumping over fences to
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  get kick balls that went awry or something.
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  But I, I mean, I wasn't like stopping and jumping off 2 feet
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  like it did. It did feel pretty, pretty good.
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  And did you know like what? What kind of at least this and
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  it's early in your your tracker, right, because you tried all
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  those other sports. I love it.
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  We had a very similar baseball experience.
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  I played fifth grade struck out every time and I was like this,
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  this sport sucks. What what I really was saying is
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  I sock at this sport. I never played it again.
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  I can't watch it. Not that I have harsh memories,
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  but did you like what kind of track athlete were you?
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  And what I mean by that, not your athleticism, but like, did
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  you know who the the stud hurdler at the Olympics was?
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  Or did you do you know anything about hurdles and hurdling at
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  all? Or was this like a kind of a new
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  event? Oh no, this.
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  This was all new. Track was all new.
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  Like I said, I grew up doing Little League baseball and
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  soccer and basketball and football.
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  Never tried hockey but probably would have gotten around to it
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  if if track didn't work out. But I don't know there.
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  Was next on the list. Yeah, yeah.
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  There wasn't so much youth running programs.
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  I did the July 4th races always did really well.
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  Those the ones in Lynn near my aunt's house, you know, I always
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  did pretty well in those where you win like $1.50 in a little
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  envelope, but no, not so much, which is funny.
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  You know, my dad who coached me in, in Little League and he
• 13:05
  coached me in soccer and we're very close now still, you know,
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  he was a big track guy at, at Lynn Classical, one of the, one
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  of the public high schools here in Lynn.
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  So it's, it's interesting that it's sort of, you know, he had
• 13:18
  me try all these other sports and I sort of found track on my
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  own, although he did encourage, he encouraged me to keep doing
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  sports because again, nothing had really worked out.
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  There was some potential in soccer, but again, I'm not a
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  contact sport guy and it seems like the higher level you go,
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  the more. He was like Tristan, we go find
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  something, man, keep going. Find something.
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  No, I, I, he still does that. I love it.
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  He's outside sports. I love it.
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  So keep keep us going. So you you Coach Hatch has you
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  trying some hurdles and it seems like there's maybe some natural
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  naturalness there. How to keep How'd it go?
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  Big time. I mean, so I mean, it was great.
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  I had what I think really helped is I had some incredible team
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  mates. Some of them are still my best
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  friends to this day, including one of the best hurdles in the
• 14:04
  state, my friend Jermaine, who who ran like a high fourteen in
• 14:08
  the one 10s. So I didn't again, I didn't
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  realize like how good Jermaine is.
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  And then my friend Matt, who's still a dear friend as well.
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  He was really good at the 400 hurdles.
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  So they were both juniors when I was a freshman and I think I
• 14:21
  really benefited from having them there because Coach Hatch
• 14:25
  was was a terrific coach and we were still in touch to this day.
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  But he's, he's old school and he's very, he calls it like he
• 14:32
  sees it. I remember one time I I went
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  over a hurdle, tripped, fell, hit the ground.
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  And before I was off the ground, all I heard was lazy trailing
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  leg. So you know.
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  How are you? Are you?
• 14:44
  OK, exactly. Which is a classic Coach Hatch
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  story that I he would love. But you know, when Matt, who I
• 14:52
  hope listen to this later, will love to hear that too because
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  they were there. You know, we're in 2024 and
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  we're talking to people, you know, roughly between, I don't
• 15:00
  know how old you are. We're 25, I'm 48, so 25 to 65.
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  And we use that term old school coach, you know, and and
• 15:06
  immediately and guys like you and I and listeners like it's
• 15:10
  like, oh, we like we could have predicted what he would have
• 15:12
  said. Like if you just said I tripped
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  and fell, what do you think Coach Hatch said we'd have said,
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  yeah, get up or, you know, lazy trailer, right.
• 15:17
  I wonder, Fast forward to 2065 S kids aren't even born today and
• 15:22
  they're going to be coached by you and, you know, other people.
• 15:24
  I wonder if they'll call your style or you know, our style
• 15:27
  today in 2020, like, oh, they were old school.
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  Now, I don't know what that mean.
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  I can't even give an example. Like, yeah, he was old school.
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  He immediately went to YouTube and was like, yeah, see this
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  video. Right, right.
• 15:36
  Yeah, looking Grant. He was old school back using
• 15:38
  YouTube or something. I don't know.
• 15:39
  I just I wonder how that's going to play out.
• 15:41
  That'll be interesting. I love that.
• 15:42
  Yeah, that context. You can't forget that, you know.
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  We know exactly what that means today, though.
• 15:48
  We know what old school is like. You probably had a hurdle gate
• 15:51
  board and he'd wap you in the back when you're going over.
• 15:53
  Yeah, that's probably next. So you had two good teammates.
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  You're doing the hurdles, you learn it.
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  You love the hurdles. Yeah, I really took to it
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  immediately. I loved hurdles and then I got
• 16:03
  into high jump again with the same teammates and I was, you
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  know, it's high jump is so it's so psychological and it's so
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  visual. I mean, you know, immediately
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  was that a good jump? Was that a bad jump as opposed
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  to long jump? You're kind of listening for the
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  them to pull the tape. Even at the end of a Sprint.
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  You're like, was that 11/5 or was that 12/8?
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  You know, it's it's sometimes it's hard to tell.
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  So I got into high jump, which definitely it proved it was a
• 16:33
  difficult event. And I think my first meet I
• 16:35
  jumped 5-6 off the bat and I never hit that again for my
• 16:39
  freshman season. And I think it's because I
• 16:40
  started thinking, you know, the first meet you're just like,
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  yeah, well, I'll jump over it. And then the, you know, the next
• 16:46
  meets I'm thinking, oh, am I driving my knee?
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  Am I, am I arching my back? But again, my, my team mates
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  were terrific. So I really became like a hurdle
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  or high jumper. And then I would I would do long
• 16:56
  or triple if if we needed the points and.
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  When in high school did you become when, when, when did
• 17:04
  track become your sport? And what I mean by that is, you
• 17:07
  know, you give a a fairly common story in regards to, you know, I
• 17:11
  tried soccer, I tried baseball. And, you know, there was
• 17:14
  something you probably couldn't have verbalized it in the middle
• 17:16
  of baseball season going, yeah, I'm not sure this is me, but you
• 17:19
  know, you evaluated after season or maybe when it's time to sign
• 17:22
  up next season, you're like, you know, mom, maybe not.
• 17:24
  Maybe I try soccer, you know, somewhere, maybe in high school
• 17:30
  for track. It had to be like, Oh yeah, I'm
• 17:32
  done. Look, you didn't go looking for
• 17:34
  hockey, you know, Like, this is my sport and these are my
• 17:37
  events. Do do you remember freshman,
• 17:39
  sophomore, senior, junior? Who knows did when that
• 17:42
  happened? That it was, I think it was 2
• 17:46
  times. I think the first time was
• 17:48
  freshman year, that first meet, I jumped 5-6.
• 17:50
  I really do think I, you know, I, I won the event.
• 17:54
  Obviously it wasn't a particularly, you know,
• 17:56
  star-studded field. It was a duel meet with I think
• 17:59
  Lynn Classical and, and I just, you know, my grandparents were
• 18:04
  there, my parents were there. I, I for some reason everyone
• 18:06
  was there. I think it was the meet over
• 18:07
  vacationers like over April break.
• 18:09
  So for some reason, like everyone was there and I'll,
• 18:11
  I'll never forget. This is a funny story because
• 18:13
  now he's like my best friend, but my, my, my teammate
• 18:17
  Jermaine, who I mentioned, he came up to me and he's a junior
• 18:20
  and he's Jermaine. I mean he's you know, he goes to
• 18:22
  all states. He came up to me and he said
• 18:25
  you're going to be good. And for some reason that was.
• 18:28
  So it was extremely validating because I've tried all these
• 18:31
  sports and I've I've had moderate success, but I haven't
• 18:35
  found my thing. But that really felt like a big
• 18:38
  moment of, you know, oh, I, this might be my thing.
• 18:42
  Those words of encouragement from a teammate, by the way,
• 18:45
  not, you know, normally I'd be guessing this up about a coach,
• 18:48
  but this is a, a teammate giving, giving you words of
• 18:51
  encouragement. Well, and, and my, I mean, my
• 18:53
  coaches were incredible as well. You know, Coach Tenney and Coach
• 18:56
  Bush. Coach Bush was the throws coach.
• 18:59
  That was his first year being named head coach.
• 19:01
  So I didn't work with him directly, but for, for him to,
• 19:03
  so for him to go out of his way and come up and offer me either
• 19:07
  either a coaching cue or a psychological cue or words of
• 19:10
  encouragement really meant the world.
• 19:12
  And Coach Bush is still there today, which means a lot.
• 19:14
  And then Coach Tenney was the head coach of the girls team,
• 19:17
  but he was also the sprints coach.
• 19:19
  So I worked with him on days that coach Hatch wasn't there or
• 19:22
  we weren't going over hurdles for whatever reason, or if we
• 19:24
  were doing long or triple. And, and so I, I, I really
• 19:28
  became close with him as well. And he's still at, I, I went to
• 19:31
  Swampscott High, which is the next town over from Lynn, but
• 19:35
  he's still there too. And so I love to see them at, at
• 19:40
  divisionals or to see them at, at an Invitational.
• 19:43
  You know, I, I love getting the text in the morning.
• 19:45
  Are you going to this Invitational?
• 19:46
  Because we both have to wake up at the same ungodly hour to get
• 19:50
  there on time, you know? Definitely means the world.
• 19:54
  That that is cool. I bet you, you know, as special
• 19:57
  as it is to you and it should be special, I bet you they look at
• 20:01
  it like just one degree higher like man, that's my former rat
• 20:03
  like that's so cool to see. You know, you were a, you know,
• 20:06
  a 14 year old punk. You know, I mean that in a good
• 20:09
  way, but maybe you were a real punk.
• 20:11
  I don't know, but you know, you're a 14 year old, not no 14
• 20:13
  year old. I can't look back at any of my
• 20:15
  kids. 13 about to turn 14 and I. I just grabbed my own son a
• 20:18
  punk, but it's like, oh wow, that guy, that kid became like a
• 20:23
  responsible adult and is now coaching the sport that they
• 20:26
  obviously have some love to it. You know, they're still coaching
• 20:28
  it for crying a lot. That's really cool to see.
• 20:30
  That's that's really special. Yeah, I know it.
• 20:33
  Definitely. I appreciate you saying that.
• 20:35
  I hope they feel that way. I mean, I see them quite a bit.
• 20:38
  I run them quite a bit. But you know, I definitely hope
• 20:42
  so. I hope, I hope I've made them
• 20:43
  proud because that, you know, the impact they had on me.
• 20:47
  It was was definitely profound as well as again, my teammates.
• 20:50
  Yeah, you have for sure, for sure.
• 20:52
  So you said two times that you kind of found track.
• 20:55
  You said one that the winning that that dual meet.
• 20:57
  That's cool. What was the second time?
• 21:00
  I think the second time was outdoor track my senior year of
• 21:03
  high school when I, I took junior year off because I just,
• 21:08
  I did cross country just for fun, but I, I, I was just
• 21:11
  overwhelmed. There was a lot going on.
• 21:13
  Sophomore year I had gotten in some trouble.
• 21:15
  Nothing crazy, just. See, I knew you were a punk.
• 21:17
  That's it. OK, got it.
• 21:18
  Got it. You know the word sophomore, it
• 21:21
  comes to mind. So it was nothing, nothing
• 21:23
  legal, nothing career ending, but you know, definitely it was
• 21:28
  in some trouble. And so and so track took a back
• 21:31
  seat and then that continued into junior year.
• 21:33
  So senior year I come back, I skipped indoor because I just I
• 21:37
  don't like indoor track. Well, you're in the wrong.
• 21:40
  You're in the wrong place for that, I think.
• 21:42
  I know, I know, I know. But so I come back for outdoors.
• 21:48
  It's been, you know, a couple years since I've since I've
• 21:51
  touched the track, but it's it's senior year and the first meet
• 21:54
  of the season. I go off and I qualify for the
• 21:56
  state meet in the 110 hurdles with a huge PR.
• 22:00
  You know, I, I beat my teammate Kevin, who always, I was always,
• 22:04
  you know, we were the 1-2 punch, but I was the two, yeah.
• 22:08
  And I remember my, my coach, this is a new coach now who came
• 22:11
  in my sophomore year, coach Bartlett.
• 22:12
  And he was, he's a distance guy. He's a cross country guy, but
• 22:16
  he, he was head coach for boys for indoor and outdoor as well.
• 22:19
  And I just remember him running up to me and saying, do you
• 22:22
  realize what you just did? And I said no, because that's
• 22:26
  how sprinting races are. I, you know, you could have told
• 22:28
  me that was a world record or that was the slowest race I've
• 22:32
  run. It's it's hard to gauge.
• 22:34
  I mean, I knew I knew the rhythm, felt good in the
• 22:36
  hurdles, but and he said, you know, you qualify for
• 22:39
  divisionals. This is incredible.
• 22:40
  You know, I think it really helped me, you know, just really
• 22:45
  validate. Again, it's very validating for
• 22:48
  something I put all this work into, whether it's during the
• 22:52
  season, offseason, I was going to lifts in the summer.
• 22:55
  So even though I wasn't on the team, I really wanted to be.
• 22:59
  That was extremely validating for me.
• 23:01
  And that's when I had unfortunately committed to a
• 23:03
  college that didn't have track and I ended up transferring my
• 23:07
  my second semester so I could run track in college.
• 23:10
  OK, the pause there, we'll get to that.
• 23:11
  That's interesting because what, what I'm interested in, you
• 23:15
  know, the story that you're telling, you know, you you tried
• 23:17
  a lot of sports seemed to be fast.
• 23:20
  So OK, freshman year you try track, you find, you know, the
• 23:23
  greatest event there is the the hurdles.
• 23:26
  The second best might be the high jump.
• 23:27
  That was my favorite thing to coach.
• 23:28
  I do love the high jump as well. You did it sophomore year.
• 23:32
  Some things happened. You didn't do it junior year.
• 23:35
  That would be a common story. If I if I went to the grocery
• 23:37
  store and interviewed 10 people, six of them would maybe have a
• 23:41
  similar story and they didn't come back their senior year for
• 23:44
  for obvious. I was like, oh, I did it and you
• 23:46
  know, I missed junior year. I'm already behind.
• 23:48
  I decided to try baseball, right.
• 23:50
  I joined the the course at school or the chemistry,
• 23:54
  whatever, and they never do track again.
• 23:56
  But they've they've done track, but they didn't do it again.
• 23:58
  What was it about track that brought?
• 24:00
  I mean, you came back, you could have easily been excused again
• 24:04
  not to do track your senior year after missing junior and that
• 24:06
  thing sophomore. What what was it about track?
• 24:09
  Why? Why come back for for one more
• 24:11
  year? That's a great question.
• 24:15
  I, I, I, I'm not totally sure what it was.
• 24:17
  I, I, I want to give a lot of credit to my coaches who even
• 24:22
  especially coach Tenney and coach Bush, who both taught in
• 24:26
  the school as well, which I think so they were seeing me on,
• 24:30
  on a daily basis, regardless of whether I was on the team or
• 24:32
  not. And I think there's something to
• 24:35
  be said for that and we can discuss that later because this
• 24:37
  is the first year I'm not teaching in the building that
• 24:40
  I'm coaching at. And there's, there's a
• 24:42
  disconnect. But they, you know, they always
• 24:45
  looked out for me. They were always asked me, how's
• 24:47
  it going? Coach Tenney was always saying,
• 24:49
  you know, we can't wait to have you back.
• 24:51
  You know, he would, he would just come up to me with like
• 24:53
  the, the flyer for sign ups and just, you know, assume I'm, I'm
• 24:56
  coming back. And that really meant a lot,
• 24:59
  especially because again, sophomore year was disciplinary.
• 25:02
  Junior year was I'm just overwhelmed with other stuff
• 25:05
  going on. Mostly good stuff junior year,
• 25:07
  which is nice, but other stuff going on.
• 25:10
  So I, I want to give a lot of credit to the coaches and, and
• 25:14
  the culture that they created that like would just, you know,
• 25:17
  take me back immediately. I didn't feel like I missed a
• 25:20
  beat. I had incredible teammates.
• 25:22
  You know, being a senior that year meant that we kind of knew
• 25:26
  everyone who was on the team for at least a couple years.
• 25:29
  So I was excited to come back on the team.
• 25:32
  And I think that's, I think that sort of answered your question,
• 25:37
  but that's a really good question.
• 25:39
  I really have to, you know, think about that a little more.
• 25:43
  Yeah, I, I think you nailed it. You know, I, I think that's a,
• 25:46
  that sounds like a really good example of a coach not giving up
• 25:50
  on a kid. We, we sometimes forget that we
• 25:52
  are dealing with kids. Now.
• 25:53
  If you're listening, you're a pro coach.
• 25:55
  That's a whole different ball game.
• 25:56
  And honestly, if, if you're dealing with a, you're a college
• 25:59
  coach, I know it seems, and there are times certainly when
• 26:02
  there's stress and the things are going on, your jobs, you
• 26:05
  know, it's a job. You're, you're a college track
• 26:07
  coach. They're still 18 to 22 year old
• 26:09
  kids. They're they are kids.
• 26:11
  They're growing into adulthood. They are kids in high school.
• 26:14
  We're certainly dealing with children, not kids, children
• 26:18
  here. What a great example.
• 26:21
  You know, sometimes we get caught up in our, we're very
• 26:25
  serious about track if we're a coach, right?
• 26:27
  And so we want, we're putting in 100% dedication as a track coach
• 26:31
  and maybe we're doing some coaching education.
• 26:33
  We're certainly showing up for practice every day and meets.
• 26:35
  And so we want the kids to have the same buy in.
• 26:39
  And again, this is not an uncommon story.
• 26:42
  Everybody who's a high school coach or has been a high school
• 26:45
  coach that's listening can name, you know, depending on how long
• 26:48
  they've coached. 10 kids that came out freshman, sophomore
• 26:50
  year, didn't do it junior, senior year or did you know,
• 26:53
  didn't come out until junior year.
• 26:54
  You know, all these things. And sometimes we're quick to to
• 26:57
  judge like if you're not 100% in, then you're 100% out, right?
• 27:00
  That's a like I've seen shirts that say that, right.
• 27:03
  And here what an example of your coaches who gave you grace, had
• 27:09
  some humility and was like, hey, man, Tristan, like it sounds
• 27:12
  like their their posture would be.
• 27:13
  We'd love to have you on the team.
• 27:15
  If you don't, that's cool. You're still you know, you're
• 27:17
  still a great person. You're still, you know, a member
• 27:19
  of our high school. Like we still love you.
• 27:21
  But boy, we'd love to have you on the team.
• 27:22
  So like didn't give up on you. Like what a great example of the
• 27:27
  power of a track coach. Big time, big time.
• 27:30
  I couldn't agree more. Big time, big time.
• 27:33
  I love that that's a really like I love that you didn't do junior
• 27:36
  year and came back, you know, saying like that's such a cool
• 27:39
  part cuz that gives you an example to set for your kids,
• 27:43
  you know, for your athletes that you have now and are gonna have
• 27:47
  in the future of like, man, there's gonna be a kid that's
• 27:49
  gonna try my patience. Not that not that you did this
• 27:52
  with your coaches, although maybe you did, but you know, a
• 27:56
  kid that it seems from the outside like they're just trying
• 27:59
  to make your life a living hell as a track coach.
• 28:03
  And they really need you to not give up on them.
• 28:06
  Is is what it really turns out, you know.
• 28:09
  So I I love that story. What a great example.
• 28:10
  The coaches your coaches set for all of all of us coaches.
• 28:14
  That's cool. Yeah.
• 28:15
  Love that. Definitely.
• 28:17
  So you gave us a preview. So you go to college, but they
• 28:20
  don't have track. So talk to us about, I love
• 28:24
  asking this question of track coaches.
• 28:26
  In your senior year, you got a lot of options.
• 28:27
  You're looking at all these different schools and not only
• 28:29
  that, but you have a lot of options of what am I going to
• 28:31
  become? Am I going to become a teacher,
• 28:33
  a fireman, a business owner, whatever.
• 28:36
  You know, lots of things for college, right?
• 28:38
  What were you thinking going into college?
• 28:42
  Do you think you were going to become a teacher and a coach of
• 28:44
  some sort? Or maybe specifically a track
• 28:46
  coach? What were you thinking at the
• 28:47
  time as a senior for that next step?
• 28:50
  No, I I so plan A has always been law school.
• 28:55
  Spoiler alert I I did it. I passed the bar recently.
• 28:59
  Oh wow. I didn't know I was supposed to
• 29:02
  be watching my words here, OK? I'm the one on recording but so
• 29:09
  I knew that was plan A but but the road there was really murky
• 29:13
  to me. Why was that plan A?
• 29:15
  That was a very strong plan A and spoiled.
• 29:17
  You got there family in the law or your favorite show was on
• 29:21
  order. What was the big deal there?
• 29:24
  Yeah, I know. My father's an attorney, so he's
• 29:27
  had a big influence on me and my mom has been extremely
• 29:31
  supportive as well and really was was a huge driving force
• 29:35
  behind doing research into colleges and law schools and
• 29:37
  this program and that program. So it's really just the two of
• 29:40
  them have been into this day. Still, I talk to them everyday.
• 29:44
  So just the two of them really, you know, helped help guide that
• 29:47
  path. But it's also something that has
• 29:49
  interested me period. I'm I'm very just, you know, on
• 29:52
  a personal note, that part of the reason that I coach, I'm
• 29:55
  very concerned with justice. I'm very concerned with everyone
• 29:57
  getting their fair shake across the board.
• 30:00
  I'm very political. We're not going to go there, but
• 30:02
  I, you know, I am. That's, that's another side to
• 30:04
  me. So that, that side of me, you
• 30:08
  know, called me to, to college and law school for sure.
• 30:12
  So, but I didn't know what that path would look like.
• 30:14
  And I, I'm, I was anxious going into college about being away
• 30:18
  from home, about not, you know, I grew up in a small town and,
• 30:21
  and, you know, I've always gone the same route to and from
• 30:24
  school and, and stuff like that. So I I ended up at Fairfield
• 30:29
  University, which was a great time for our first.
• 30:32
  No, you didn't. Yeah.
• 30:34
  Why? Yeah, yeah.
• 30:36
  Because my other brother who's been a guest on the show, Chris
• 30:40
  Baptista, he, we met when I coached at Troy University.
• 30:43
  He was assistant when I was a undergrad assistant there.
• 30:46
  His last. He was at Fresno State for
• 30:48
  several years and his last place was at Cal Poly.
• 30:51
  He has now gotten into his He switched careers into college
• 30:55
  recruitment, so not athletic recruitment.
• 30:57
  Oh, terrific. Yeah.
• 30:58
  And so, you know, he's a California, went to high school
• 31:00
  in California. He worked, you know, Fresno and
• 31:03
  and Cal Poly. So he's California through and
• 31:05
  through. And he calls me up one day.
• 31:06
  He's like, yeah, I'm interviewing for, you know,
• 31:08
  this. They call them development job,
• 31:10
  you know, development jobs for Fairfield.
• 31:12
  And I didn't know much about Fairfield.
• 31:14
  And I was like, oh, you know, and I was like, where is it?
• 31:16
  Connecticut? I'm like, I was like, are you
• 31:18
  moved it? He's like, no, I'm going to be
• 31:20
  the West region manager or whatever.
• 31:21
  And I was like. And so I've gotten to know more
• 31:23
  about fair. He talks so highly of it.
• 31:25
  I mean, it's a terrific school. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 31:28
  But I love that it's one of those schools, like air quotes.
• 31:30
  No one knows. And so when you said it, I was
• 31:32
  like, I know this school. Hold on.
• 31:33
  Yeah. That's so cool.
• 31:35
  So you started there? I started there, Yeah.
• 31:38
  And, and it's, it's it's a wonderful school.
• 31:40
  It had programs. I I wanted, you know, that the
• 31:43
  people were wonderful. But for me, college wasn't a
• 31:45
  good fit. Warm life, being away from home.
• 31:49
  It's just it didn't matter where I went that first semester.
• 31:52
  It wasn't going to be quite the right fit.
• 31:56
  And I wanted to go far enough away that I wouldn't be tempted
• 31:58
  to come home every weekend. But then I really wanted to go
• 32:01
  home every week and and it's not a knock on Fairfield or any of
• 32:05
  the people I met there at all or anything like that.
• 32:08
  So mom again, was doing research into into transferring and she
• 32:12
  said there's a school in Boston, you know, it's closer to home.
• 32:15
  You could come home on the weekends, but still have that
• 32:17
  college experience and you can run track.
• 32:19
  It's called Emmanuel College. Did you want to go look at?
• 32:23
  I said sure. So we went to a prospective
• 32:26
  student event. Did you miss track?
• 32:29
  So you said you went one semester.
• 32:31
  So in that fall semester, was there a little bit of like, man,
• 32:35
  I like doing track and I don't have any of that.
• 32:37
  Was there any of that or was that mom's time?
• 32:39
  Yeah. OK.
• 32:40
  A ton Mike, because my breakout season was spring season, senior
• 32:44
  year and it was, it was a breakout to be clear, like I, I
• 32:48
  was, I was not meddling at conference.
• 32:50
  And then I was like, you know, going to state for the hurdles
• 32:53
  and, and so I was already committed to Fairfield.
• 32:58
  I mean, so I, it was never something I even considered.
• 33:00
  And again, that validation of I'm not I can't run in college.
• 33:04
  You know what 2% of athletes get to run in college, but then
• 33:07
  track is so objective. I looked, I put my time up on
• 33:10
  one of those websites and I, I was, you know, really, really
• 33:15
  shocked. In a good way.
• 33:16
  So OK, let's jump back to senior year.
• 33:18
  So you you're committed, you committed, you're committed.
• 33:20
  You how many times can I say committed?
• 33:23
  You're committed that you're going to Fairfield.
• 33:24
  You're not committed like, oh, I've signed a scholarship there.
• 33:27
  As you have your breakout senior year, though, I have to imagine
• 33:30
  other schools started contacting you and because you weren't like
• 33:34
  in a lie signed to Fairfield, you could have.
• 33:37
  But was it more like, I'm trying to figure out what kept you?
• 33:40
  Like I made a commitment, so I'm going to, I'm going to carry out
• 33:43
  that commitment. That's, it's a great question.
• 33:47
  I think it just goes back to me not really being sure about
• 33:50
  Fairfield or College in the 1st place.
• 33:54
  So it had becomes, I mean, I sort of made my decision in
• 33:57
  November, which again for non athletics is just paying a
• 34:00
  deposit. So I, I think I had said it so
• 34:03
  many times. It's sort of the, it's, it's at
• 34:06
  least I know where I'm going. You know, I have, I have to
• 34:10
  imagine, but Track did cross my mind and I was bummed that this
• 34:14
  was sort of the end of the line, clearly, because that was one of
• 34:18
  the big things that I said to to my mom.
• 34:20
  And then, you know, my friends, you know, I'd like to run track
• 34:24
  again. So you go to a manual you you
• 34:27
  said you I cut you off when you start time, you start going to a
• 34:30
  prospective student and everything met the track coach
• 34:33
  or. Yeah, coach Tony Derocha, who
• 34:36
  is, who is quite a, a figure in Greater Boston athletics.
• 34:41
  He's done a lot for the city. I you know, I had no idea who I
• 34:44
  was talking to, but, and he would, he would hate this
• 34:47
  characterization, but he really is, he is, he's done a lot for,
• 34:51
  for Boston kids, especially bringing track and and running
• 34:56
  to to a city that has a great history of running, you know,
• 34:58
  with the marathon and and what not, but so much else as well.
• 35:03
  And I, I had a terrific semester, but again, it was my
• 35:07
  favorite part of the week was the track meet on Saturday and
• 35:10
  then going home after the meet. And so, you know, I just told my
• 35:14
  parent like, this is a big waste of money.
• 35:16
  I don't like living on campus. I'm not a big college guy.
• 35:19
  I've been very open about that when I talk to my kids about,
• 35:22
  you know, the next level. And they asked me about my
• 35:25
  experiences. So I, I did one semester there.
• 35:28
  And then I moved home and went to Salem State University and in
• 35:32
  the town next door, which unfortunately has no track team.
• 35:35
  So one semester if. I lose you?
• 35:38
  Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I'm keeping track of
• 35:41
  it. 1 semester at Fairfield, Miss track, Miss being close to
• 35:45
  home. So we transferred to a manual.
• 35:47
  You run track that spring semester, you do well.
• 35:51
  Oh, it was awesome. You love it.
• 35:52
  Everything that you had fantasized about track, it was
• 35:55
  still there. Like, oh, this is still a great
• 35:57
  sport. I still love participating.
• 35:59
  Coaches are still awesome. Everything's good.
• 36:02
  Yeah. And then you transfer closer to
• 36:07
  home to go to Salem State, no track.
• 36:12
  And maybe you're answering it because you keep referring back
• 36:14
  to like, you're not a big college guy.
• 36:16
  And that, and I, first of all, I appreciate you being so open and
• 36:19
  transparent about that. You know, there's that your air
• 36:23
  quotes not supposed to say that, right?
• 36:24
  It's like, Oh no, you're supposed to go to college, blah,
• 36:26
  blah, blah. And you know, we're, I think
• 36:27
  we're, it feels like maybe only 1%, but it does feel like we've
• 36:31
  tilted the, because I'm with you on this, by the way, we've
• 36:33
  tilted the, the ship a little bit of like, Hey, you don't have
• 36:36
  to go to college. Like you, maybe I should say
• 36:39
  this way, you don't have to go to college to be successful and
• 36:41
  happy. That's what it used to be.
• 36:43
  It's like, oh, if you don't go to college, you're not going to
• 36:44
  be successful. And ultimately it means you're
• 36:46
  not going to be happy. And, but, and by success, we
• 36:48
  always meant make money, by the way, not successful.
• 36:51
  Like, you know, start your own business.
• 36:52
  It was always about money. Now we're starting to see like
• 36:54
  trade, trade shows, trade schools and, and other avenues
• 36:59
  of education like, Oh, you can be successful, make money and be
• 37:02
  happy this route as well. So I'm with you on that.
• 37:06
  What I'm so I'm going to ask it and, and maybe that's the
• 37:08
  answer, but what are you searching for?
• 37:11
  So in, in my 10 years of college coaching, I was at 5 different
• 37:16
  places. So I, you know, every one year
• 37:17
  or two years, I was hopping because I was searching for
• 37:19
  something. I was searching to get to the
• 37:20
  SEC. That was my big, I'm from the
• 37:21
  South. That was my big fan.
• 37:22
  I was searching for something. What are you, I mean, you got a
• 37:27
  great school in Fairfield. You got a great school and a
• 37:29
  manual. You, you, you've moved closer to
• 37:31
  home. I mean, you, you.
• 37:33
  So you can't be searching for that in a sense of like you
• 37:35
  found that you found track back again.
• 37:37
  What, what are you at this early age?
• 37:39
  You're 1819 years old. What are you searching for?
• 37:43
  I, I mean, I think, I think that's a great question, but I,
• 37:46
  I mean, I, I think a solid amount of it was, was a lot of
• 37:49
  homesickness and sort of just, I sort of questioned this
• 37:53
  assumption that you have to go live at school.
• 37:58
  OK, That that just wasn't for me.
• 38:00
  It just, it just didn't work for me.
• 38:01
  I like taking classes I liked. I had, I had friends.
• 38:04
  I mean, I wasn't, you know, alone at night, you know,
• 38:08
  counting down the days, but it just, it just wasn't for me.
• 38:12
  And the amount of money I'm paying for room and board in a
• 38:14
  private school versus, you know what, what I was able to pay at
• 38:18
  Salem State University, It just, I don't know, it just it just
• 38:22
  didn't, it just wasn't working for me at all.
• 38:25
  Are are you? This is so outside of track that
• 38:27
  it I apologize if it's. No, no, no.
• 38:30
  It's the podcast, the 100. If it wasn't relevant, I'd skip.
• 38:33
  I know how to skip past all these things and move on.
• 38:35
  No, it's very relevant because there are people who are either
• 38:38
  in college right now or they're coaching and they don't have a
• 38:42
  college degree and they're struggling with so and there may
• 38:45
  also be coaches who are struggling with how do how do I
• 38:50
  talk to my athletes about college?
• 38:52
  Because because you're right, it's not for everybody.
• 38:54
  Not everybody goes to college. Not everybody goes and, and and
• 38:57
  receives a degree. It's not for everybody.
• 38:59
  So no, I think this is very valid.
• 39:01
  Are you getting? Here's the thing I think that is
• 39:04
  tripping me up though, is because you want to become a
• 39:06
  lawyer. And that to me is a very
• 39:08
  academic like. Oh, yeah.
• 39:10
  I, I, I don't know that I would hire a lawyer who doesn't have a
• 39:12
  degree. I don't think you become a
• 39:14
  lawyer without having a degree either.
• 39:15
  So it's like, you know, like this is a tribute.
• 39:17
  Are you getting on on those in that freshman year?
• 39:20
  A lot of struggles, meaning, you know, you're away from home.
• 39:22
  That was a struggle. You get closer, but it's not
• 39:23
  close enough. That's kind of a struggle.
• 39:25
  Are you getting good grades though?
• 39:27
  Yeah, my grades were actually decent.
• 39:29
  Yeah, OK, good, decent to good. Yeah, OK.
• 39:33
  I actually struggling in that. No, I enjoyed the academic rigor
• 39:38
  of, of, of the university setting.
• 39:40
  OK. So that that's definitely a side
• 39:42
  of me that, you know, I wasn't running from that.
• 39:44
  Necessarily. OK.
• 39:45
  Yeah, that's a. Good.
• 39:46
  That's a great question. Yeah, all.
• 39:47
  Right. So we go to Salem State now.
• 39:48
  Salem, like right now. I mean, are you living at home
• 39:51
  now? Yeah, yeah.
• 39:53
  So, so Lynn is next to Swampscott, which is next to
• 39:56
  Salem. OK.
• 39:57
  So I'm in Swampscott living at home, commuting to Salem, which
• 40:01
  was, you know, pretty easy. You know, mom and dad are at
• 40:04
  work. My little sister is still in in
• 40:06
  high school so. You know, we're, we're hanging
• 40:08
  out and there is something about when you go to Salem State as a
• 40:13
  kid from Swampscott or Lynn, that you kind of band together
• 40:16
  with the fellow kids who didn't go, go to college, you're still
• 40:20
  going to college. So I ended up, that's when I
• 40:23
  became really close with my current group of friends, a lot
• 40:25
  of whom were from Swampscott High.
• 40:28
  So even, you know, it's, it's kind of funny.
• 40:30
  I didn't really talk to them as much that one year where I was
• 40:32
  sort of transferring around the map.
• 40:34
  And then it's kind of like, oh, Tristan's back in town.
• 40:37
  And then the biggest, most important thing happened where I
• 40:41
  get a Facebook message from the Swampscott Middle School cross
• 40:46
  country coach who I had run with her son and she was the nurse at
• 40:50
  the middle school. She's also a dear family friend,
• 40:52
  Marianne Speranza Hartman. And she said, hey, Tristan, I
• 40:55
  heard you're back in town. I've got 125 kids signed up for
• 40:59
  Swampscott Middle School cross country.
• 41:01
  I'm, I, I need a coaching staff. Would you be interested in just
• 41:04
  helping out? And that's that's what it was.
• 41:08
  Had you before that Facebook message see Facebook's not all
• 41:12
  bad? And before that Facebook
• 41:14
  message, was there any thought of becoming a track coach at
• 41:19
  all? At this point?
• 41:20
  Are you still figuring things out of How am I going to go to
• 41:23
  law school you? Know what's wild is I I really
• 41:26
  don't think there was any thought of of coaching, you
• 41:30
  know, it just seemed like it just it never really crossed my
• 41:33
  mind. I enjoyed, you know, working
• 41:37
  with youth. You know, I kind of still was
• 41:39
  one even in high school. I got the the senior Leadership
• 41:43
  Award because, you know, for working with some of the
• 41:46
  underclassmen and sort of, you know, be being a good role
• 41:49
  model, I suppose. At least I hope that's why I got
• 41:53
  the award. It sounds like it.
• 41:56
  So, you know, I mean, I definitely enjoyed that, but it,
• 42:00
  it never really crossed. I mean, becoming a teacher did
• 42:02
  cross my mind because I've had a lot of great teachers and
• 42:06
  mentors, many of whom I've referenced in this sit down.
• 42:10
  But for some reason, becoming a track coach was kind of outside
• 42:13
  of my my purview. I don't know why, it's just it
• 42:16
  never crossed my mind. And then you get a Facebook
• 42:19
  message now, right? 125 middle school middle
• 42:23
  schoolers. Wow.
• 42:27
  What did you think you were getting into, and then how did
• 42:31
  it actually play out? Well, I kind of, I think, I
• 42:36
  think it played out similar to how I thought of it.
• 42:39
  It might, you know, it was a lot of herding cats.
• 42:42
  Yep. But a lot of that, so it was
• 42:44
  myself and Coach Hartman, and then I was actually joined by
• 42:48
  Coach Supai, who had initially said, Tristan, go try the
• 42:51
  hurdles. He was, he took a step back from
• 42:54
  the high school level and was coaching with the middle school.
• 42:57
  He did a lot. He's a distance guy.
• 42:59
  He's actually a 400 runner. He's a masters 400 runner.
• 43:01
  He's he's unbelievable. I think he was when he was in
• 43:05
  his 70s. He was saying he could still run
• 43:06
  his age in the 400, which is I I I'm pretty sure he said that.
• 43:11
  So. Or, or that was his goal,
• 43:13
  something like that, But he's legit.
• 43:16
  I I can't run double his age. Right.
• 43:18
  Yeah, No, I can't. I'm not a anything over 200.
• 43:21
  I'm I'm pretty toast. Anything over 2.
• 43:24
  So keep going. Yeah, for, for me, for me.
• 43:28
  Anything without hurdles, I lose.
• 43:30
  I lose focus. What are we doing?
• 43:32
  Yeah, What are we doing? AM I supposed to Hurley?
• 43:35
  What am I doing here? Right, exactly.
• 43:38
  Yeah, keep us going. Yeah, so, so Coach Soupe took
• 43:41
  care of a lot of the the programming of the, of the, you
• 43:45
  know, of the team, a lot of the this workout do this.
• 43:48
  He he had created paths, you know, go do a loop, B loop, C
• 43:52
  loop, which is great because the kids knew him by heart.
• 43:58
  And then, you know, myself and Coach Hartman and then Coach
• 44:00
  Gavigan, who also joined, who ended up, if you're losing track
• 44:04
  of character, she ended up marrying Coach Tenny.
• 44:06
  They met who was my high school coach.
• 44:08
  I mean, it's, it's, it's a wonderful community we have and
• 44:13
  they're they're happily married to this day.
• 44:17
  You know, we were a lot of the, you know, sort of, you know,
• 44:20
  working more with the kids side of things.
• 44:22
  You know, a kid is nervous about a meet, a kid scrapes his knee.
• 44:25
  Coach Hartman's a registered nurse.
• 44:26
  So she having her was it was a godsend.
• 44:29
  So between being able to observe her working with the the kids,
• 44:33
  you know, on the physical and emotional level and Coach Soupe
• 44:36
  working with them sort of as the athlete, not to take away from
• 44:41
  either, not to say that Coach Gavigan, what she's a very
• 44:44
  accomplished marathoner and and a coach in her own right.
• 44:47
  Coach Hartman knows her way around running big time and
• 44:50
  Coach Soupe is, is great with the kids as well.
• 44:53
  Again, he's the person who got me at 14 to jump over a hurdle.
• 44:56
  So not to take away from any of, of what they can do
• 44:59
  holistically, but sort of watching them in their elements
• 45:03
  in that way. I think I learned a lot those
• 45:06
  three years I was that I was coaching cross country at
• 45:08
  Swampscott Middle and I'm much more of a track coach now.
• 45:11
  I do coach cross country, but in track I'm, I do sprints,
• 45:14
  hurdles, jumps and I, I, you know, I joke that all, it's
• 45:18
  cross country season again, but you know, I got my start at
• 45:22
  coaching cross country and I think a lot of my coaching
• 45:25
  philosophy stems from cross country.
• 45:28
  He said he did three years there during this three years, did it
• 45:33
  ever click like, oh, yeah, this is what I I want to also do
• 45:36
  that. You know, there's still plan a
• 45:38
  law school, becoming a lawyer. But oh, yeah, this like, I
• 45:42
  didn't even realize I could do this.
• 45:43
  But yes, I, I, I love this. Or did that come later?
• 45:47
  Yeah, I think it was during those three years.
• 45:49
  During those three years is also when I got hired to do track at
• 45:51
  Saint Mary's. So for one year I was doing
• 45:54
  cross country at one school and track it at another.
• 45:58
  Hired by another former Swampscott coach, Coach Don
• 46:01
  Fanelli, who's a legend in his own right.
• 46:03
  He has several national records. He ran a Brandeis years ago and
• 46:07
  he's also a lawyer, so he's so I'm in touch with him all the
• 46:12
  time. But yeah, it definitely like
• 46:16
  pretty immediately I was like, OK, I really like, I really
• 46:20
  enjoy, you know, coming to this everyday, sort of being a part
• 46:23
  of this thing that we're all building together and getting to
• 46:26
  know these kids, you know, because sometimes in a classroom
• 46:29
  you don't really get to know the kids to that level versus when
• 46:32
  it's an after school activity. It's something they signed up
• 46:34
  for and it's something, I mean, cross country and track are
• 46:37
  physically and mentally very demanding sports.
• 46:41
  So you really do see, I think this can be said for a lot of
• 46:45
  sports. I think a lot of coaches would
• 46:46
  say that, but you really see kids deal with adversity and,
• 46:50
  you know, watching them grow up and being able to help, you
• 46:54
  know, mentor, you know, channeling those emotions and
• 46:56
  turning into something positive. That's really something that I
• 47:01
  think really sparked the passion in me.
• 47:03
  And so I did that one season across country.
• 47:06
  I ended up doing track in the spring and then, you know, since
• 47:09
  since that I did a couple more years at Swampscott Middle.
• 47:12
  And since 2020, since the pandemic, I've been head coach
• 47:19
  of all three seasons at at Saint Mary's.
• 47:22
  When you were doing that, three years at the middle school, this
• 47:26
  is while you are getting your degree at Salem State.
• 47:29
  Yes, yeah. So I was getting my bachelor's
• 47:31
  then. What did you end up getting your
• 47:33
  undergrad in? Political Science.
• 47:35
  Yeah. OK.
• 47:35
  That fits you? Yeah.
• 47:37
  Definitely going to law school. That seems right.
• 47:38
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 47:40
  That's the lawyer's degree. Undergrad degree for sure.
• 47:42
  And, well, you described yourself.
• 47:43
  I'm like, well, of course you did.
• 47:44
  Polysil. Yeah.
• 47:45
  Yeah. And I had a terrific, it's
• 47:47
  terrific department at Salem State, small department, which
• 47:50
  was nice, learned a ton. But coaching throughout and and
• 47:54
  throughout college and law school, I would never took a
• 47:58
  class between 3:00 and 4:30. I couldn't, No.
• 48:02
  I got coaching and like that was and I missed out on a few
• 48:06
  classes I might have wanted to take, but you know, the latest I
• 48:09
  would go would be like the 1:40 to 2:55 and then I'd speed over
• 48:12
  to the track. But you're still getting that
• 48:18
  political science degree to go to law school, not to teach at
• 48:24
  the high school so that you can coach things like that.
• 48:27
  And I know, and you know, you alluded to this, that there are
• 48:30
  certainly coaches and I don't know if it's necessarily more
• 48:32
  prevalent in track and field or not.
• 48:33
  I don't know that that'd be a pretty good study for someone to
• 48:37
  do maybe the NFHS. That's an interesting.
• 48:39
  Yeah, there is certainly coaches in sports and we're talking
• 48:42
  about track here who don't teach.
• 48:44
  I was, when I talk to your talk, 2 years.
• 48:46
  I coached 2 years of high school in Chicago and I didn't, you
• 48:49
  know, I was doing other jobs and coming in the afternoon.
• 48:52
  So I'm familiar with it. But you're not getting your
• 48:55
  degree to teach, you're getting your degree to go to law school,
• 48:58
  but you're coaching. Those are those are divergent
• 49:03
  paths. Those are not paths that can
• 49:04
  run, that traditionally run parallel.
• 49:07
  And I'm not sure any lawyer can. A full time lawyer can be a
• 49:11
  track coach, especially a head track coach because of all the
• 49:14
  things going on there. So how are these paths winding?
• 49:18
  You mentioned become the head coach in 20.
• 49:20
  How are you? And I don't even maybe
• 49:22
  necessarily mean professionally because at least at this point,
• 49:26
  you're not a lawyer at at the point in time that we're at.
• 49:30
  But your mindset is, you know, so there's mindset and there's
• 49:33
  emotions, right? Like, oh man, I love the sports,
• 49:34
  but I love the law too, you know?
• 49:37
  How are you handling these two really opposite paths?
• 49:43
  Yeah, I mean, the real answer is that I, it keeps me up at night,
• 49:48
  especially, especially now is, you know, now that I've
• 49:51
  officially passed the bar. And I mean, there are some
• 49:52
  decisions that need to be made. You know, the coaching has been
• 49:56
  a passion. It's been a way to give back.
• 49:58
  It's been a way to work within the city of Lynn and then bring
• 50:01
  track to the city of Lynn and hopefully make it, you know,
• 50:04
  more popular of a sport and, and especially being in the same
• 50:10
  place. You know, now this is this is my
• 50:11
  8th year at Saint Mary's and I don't know if I ever brought
• 50:13
  this up, but it's it's a six through 12 school and a six
• 50:16
  through 12 program. So last year was the first time
• 50:19
  we had a student athlete who I coach and see was in 6th grade.
• 50:22
  I watched him walk across the stage.
• 50:24
  That's cool. So now I'm, I'm, you know, I'm
• 50:29
  the, I'm the, I'm the fossil on the team.
• 50:31
  I'm the longest tenured person on the team who's sort of seen
• 50:34
  it all, you know, being a part of that community and these
• 50:38
  kids, you know, this particular group is something really,
• 50:41
  really special to me. So, you know, I like working
• 50:46
  with youth. I've worked with youth pretty
• 50:47
  much my entire career between substitute teaching jobs, I did
• 50:52
  a teaching fellowship in law school where I taught
• 50:55
  constitutional law in Boston public schools and of course the
• 50:59
  coaching. So it's, and I currently serve
• 51:02
  on the Lynn, the city's youth and adolescence task Force where
• 51:06
  we're, we're putting forth policies and workshops and
• 51:09
  seminars for, you know, helping youth.
• 51:11
  So it's sort of they definitely are.
• 51:14
  I think they're divergent when you when you hear them in a in a
• 51:18
  vacuum. But I'm trying my darndest to
• 51:23
  forge a path where I can really do both and continue to do good
• 51:28
  and frankly, to make a living, because that's, that's the
• 51:32
  elephant in the room with high school coaching.
• 51:34
  And I, I was offered a college coaching job.
• 51:37
  It was an assistant job at AD 3 school.
• 51:38
  It, I would still have needed a day job, but it was an
• 51:42
  opportunity to sort of move up and sort of professionalize the
• 51:45
  coaching. But I really like working with
• 51:47
  this age kids. I think, I think there's
• 51:50
  something to be said for it. And there's, again, I wouldn't
• 51:54
  know. I, I don't want to speak out of
• 51:55
  turn, but I do think that it's, it's different when you're
• 51:58
  coaching 18 to 22 year olds who are a lot more independent
• 52:02
  versus working with high school and middle age, middle school
• 52:05
  age kids where you get to kind of watch them figure out who
• 52:10
  they are. And if I can be a positive role
• 52:13
  in that or, or any role in that, that's really fulfilling.
• 52:17
  So that was a long answer to your question, but I hope it
• 52:21
  gave a little more insight into where I'm at back in 2020 when I
• 52:27
  became head coach and I'm in my first year of law school, where
• 52:31
  I'm at now host bar and where I'm at when I first started
• 52:34
  coaching, where I didn't realize it was going to be something
• 52:36
  that I really fell in love with. I'm just a guy getting his poli
• 52:40
  sci degree. And I'm so happy I'm able to
• 52:43
  still be part of the coaching of the track and field community
• 52:48
  because, you know, again, I had, you know, I had run in college.
• 52:51
  I tried to run in college. I ran a semester in law school
• 52:54
  because I had leftover eligibility.
• 52:57
  So I hope that that explains a little more.
• 53:01
  I guess I definitely would not coach another sport.
• 53:04
  I am, I am a track coach, I'm a cross country coach and I, I
• 53:07
  enjoy this. Was was there any time during
• 53:11
  this span that you were teaching or working at the high school?
• 53:15
  Or is this always the other thing mean, you know, you've got
• 53:21
  to work on your schedule and, you know, classes and law
• 53:23
  school, things like that? Which which is funny because
• 53:26
  sometimes law school was the other thing and this was my my
• 53:29
  my priority. But don't tell anyone that.
• 53:32
  That's not how it should have been.
• 53:34
  But so, so last year when I was sitting for the planning to sit
• 53:37
  for the bar exam, I obviously couldn't, I need to take a
• 53:40
  couple months off to study. Anyone does.
• 53:44
  So last year I was actually at Saint Mary's in the building
• 53:47
  every day as a per day per diem substitute teacher.
• 53:51
  And I alluded to this earlier, but that made a big difference.
• 53:55
  It's nice to be in the building. I will say that you get a sense
• 53:59
  of what else is going on. Did something weird or funny or
• 54:04
  God forbid, tragic happened in school today.
• 54:08
  You see the kids in the classroom, You see who they're
• 54:10
  talking to you. You meet the kids who aren't on
• 54:12
  the track team, which can sometimes explain stuff that's
• 54:15
  going on that doesn't make sense, especially because our
• 54:18
  track is off campus. So I'm, I'm really not in the
• 54:22
  building that much. If I, if, if I weren't working
• 54:25
  there. So I, that's definitely, there's
• 54:28
  an element of that that's really, definitely strikes me
• 54:32
  as, you know, if I'm really going to be the best coach I can
• 54:34
  be, do I really need to become a teacher and do I need to become
• 54:39
  a teacher in this building wherever I am?
• 54:42
  It also helped with if we had to get dismissed for a meet or
• 54:44
  something. I had no issues with work, you
• 54:46
  know, and sometimes that happens with these big invitationals
• 54:50
  that are in Western Mass somewhere.
• 54:53
  It it seems like it might be easy air quotes.
• 54:57
  There may be easier is the right word.
• 55:00
  If you're going to, you know, work on your undergrad and get
• 55:04
  that and then law school, things like that to be the assistant
• 55:08
  coach. Because to your point, even even
• 55:10
  with that and talking about, you know, not being in the, in the
• 55:13
  school, you show up to the track, it's off campus, but it's
• 55:16
  like, oh, I show up and I work with my group.
• 55:17
  The, you know, Mr. and Missus head coach, he or she has to
• 55:21
  deal with the scheduling and buses and on campus incidents.
• 55:28
  You know, kid gets in trouble or whatever, they get to deal with
• 55:31
  that. I get to show up and whatever
• 55:32
  kids show up, that's who I coach.
• 55:34
  And you know, right, that's. There's plenty of people that do
• 55:36
  that and they have a huge impact on kids in this.
• 55:38
  Absolutely. Yeah, you still have such a
• 55:40
  huge. Impact as an assistant coach for
• 55:42
  sure. But you become the head coach.
• 55:44
  How do you how do you in it's interest?
• 55:46
  I I did two years at De LaSalle High School up in Chicago.
• 55:50
  In the first year, I was assistant in the second year.
• 55:51
  I don't know how I conned these guys and gals to let me become
• 55:55
  the head coach. I was 20.
• 55:58
  I'm so glad I did it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 56:00
  They're just, you know, bad decisions on their part.
• 56:02
  It was great though. I had a great time.
• 56:04
  No incidents. It was awesome.
• 56:06
  But being the head coach is different.
• 56:08
  You got all these other responsibilities.
• 56:11
  How did you manage doing that? And you were doing some
• 56:13
  substitute teaching during that time as well, you said?
• 56:15
  Yeah, that that definitely helped a lot.
• 56:18
  I think. So I was head coach starting in,
• 56:21
  so I was in law school. And importantly it was COVID, so
• 56:25
  I wasn't commuting into Boston anymore, which offered some
• 56:29
  time. And additionally, there was sort
• 56:31
  of less to schedule because there was less happening.
• 56:34
  Indoor track didn't really happen.
• 56:37
  We did it outdoors in like early March and it was freezing and no
• 56:41
  one wants to run the 1000 on a 400 meter track.
• 56:44
  But, and then outdoor was fairly brief because this, you know,
• 56:49
  indoor outdoor season sort of bled into it.
• 56:52
  And then, you know, my senior year or my, my third year, 3L
• 56:56
  year of law school, I sort of just, we were back in person.
• 57:00
  But I, you know, I figured it out.
• 57:01
  I made it work. And then there was a brief
• 57:03
  diversion where I had a brief political career that didn't
• 57:08
  work out. So once that's over, it's just
• 57:09
  sort of over. So I went back to coaching and
• 57:12
  studying for the bar exam. And then that sort of leads us
• 57:15
  to today. But before we get to the date,
• 57:18
  so and you're right, we're not going to talk politics, but what
• 57:24
  do you mean brief political courage?
• 57:25
  You run for mayor or something or?
• 57:27
  I so I ran for state representative did.
• 57:29
  You really? Yeah, of our local district.
• 57:31
  We did. We did very well.
• 57:33
  And I'll never forget how much I loved a lot of my campaign
• 57:36
  volunteers were kids from the team.
• 57:38
  There was no coercion. There was no vote for me or
• 57:41
  you're in the two mile. I promise there was nothing like
• 57:44
  that. But after seven years at the
• 57:46
  same school, you really have a bond with these kids.
• 57:48
  And, you know, I felt, I mean, you know, I'm in the paper.
• 57:52
  I mean, it's not, it's not a secret that Coach Smith is
• 57:55
  running for something. So the campaign was mostly in
• 57:58
  the summer. I lost in the primary, which was
• 58:01
  early, no, early September. And so I called up the AD and
• 58:05
  said I'll be back for cross country.
• 58:06
  Yeah. That's a cool experience, though
• 58:09
  I wouldn't. I was an unbelievable.
• 58:10
  Experience. That's really interesting.
• 58:12
  Yeah, I hope to do it again. Whatever.
• 58:14
  Yeah, I only run for something if it's if I really think I'm
• 58:17
  the right guy and it's the right time.
• 58:19
  So that's sort of in the back of my mind.
• 58:22
  And again, another, we're adults, whether you're a teacher
• 58:25
  or a coach, but you're adults that set examples for kids.
• 58:28
  And very similar to you being nominated for this podcast from
• 58:33
  someone that you don't know, those kids are looking at you.
• 58:37
  And some of you know, right, Some of you have great
• 58:39
  relationships where they come and talk to you about race
• 58:40
  strategies or, hey, I'm nervous about college.
• 58:43
  What should I do? How did you do those kind of
• 58:45
  things? And there's others not even on
• 58:46
  your team, but certainly certain kids on your team that you
• 58:49
  think, yeah, this kid, he's just showing up and that's fine.
• 58:51
  No judgment on that. But they're not into it.
• 58:54
  They're not into me whatever. And you have no idea how they're
• 58:58
  looking at you going wait a minute.
• 58:59
  So this guy went to college, he's going to law school.
• 59:01
  Maybe I could go to law school. You know, you have no idea what
• 59:04
  these kids are are looking up to you for.
• 59:06
  And so if for you to do that, what a great example of like,
• 59:10
  maybe I should get involved in local politics or state
• 59:12
  politics. You know, we we need people to
• 59:15
  to help run us, you know, to be leader.
• 59:16
  So just showing that example and honestly, not more, but another
• 59:23
  facet of it is that you didn't win.
• 59:25
  And that shows like, oh, look, he he tried something and it
• 59:28
  didn't work out and he's still back.
• 59:31
  He's still good. Like he didn't he just, you
• 59:33
  know, smote it off the face of the earth.
• 59:35
  Like wow, he's still still good. Like what that means?
• 59:38
  I maybe I can try stuff and fail and I'm still OK, you know, like
• 59:41
  you give comfort of like, oh, failed and still back.
• 59:44
  Like that's a good sign. That's a good thing.
• 59:46
  So that's really cool, man, I love that.
• 59:48
  That's really neat. Thank you.
• 59:51
  So how are you? You know, I still we're not up
• 59:55
  to today just yet as your head coach law school, which so you
• 1:00:00
  get your undergrad from Salem. Where did you go to law school
• 1:00:02
  at? I went to Suffolk.
• 1:00:04
  Suffolk, OK. Suffolk law.
• 1:00:05
  Yeah. I don't know why I thought I
• 1:00:06
  would hear it like, Oh yeah, Suffolk.
• 1:00:08
  No, I don't know. That's all.
• 1:00:10
  Yeah, it's it's known in Massachusetts.
• 1:00:11
  I'm sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:12
  But it's it's, yeah. Suffolk Law ran one one season,
• 1:00:16
  1 indoor season. Yeah.
• 1:00:18
  Helped them win conference. Yeah.
• 1:00:20
  Is that right? I scored a.
• 1:00:22
  Conference. In the hurdles I was, I was
• 1:00:24
  thrilled. In the in the hurdles.
• 1:00:26
  Yep. Nice. 6060 hurdles.
• 1:00:28
  That's cool. When I heard, I mean, I talked
• 1:00:30
  with the coach at length, I was, I was like, this is my
• 1:00:32
  situation. Do I still have eligibility?
• 1:00:35
  When he said yes, I was over the moon.
• 1:00:37
  I was like, I get to run again and I got to run against the kid
• 1:00:41
  I coached, which was. Weird.
• 1:00:44
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:00:46
  Wow. Did you beat him?
• 1:00:48
  Different events, different events.
• 1:00:50
  He ran. He ran in.
• 1:00:51
  The thank God because I can't lose to a kid I was.
• 1:00:54
  Gonna say you got to beat him. I know.
• 1:00:57
  So how are you? You know, law school itself is
• 1:01:00
  extremely intense. Coaching track and field is
• 1:01:03
  extremely intense. Lot of lot of there's 1000
• 1:01:06
  things you wear 1000 hats. Are you, what are you doing, if
• 1:01:09
  anything, on the coaching professional education side?
• 1:01:14
  Like are you doing any USATFS? Are you doing I, I, I always
• 1:01:18
  kind of you know, if you listen to several episodes, you may
• 1:01:21
  have heard me too much feel there's formal and informal
• 1:01:23
  coaching education. The formal sides, USATFUSTFCCCA,
• 1:01:26
  Altus, things like that. The informal is, hey, I have a
• 1:01:29
  speed dial former coaches or coaches that I respect or, you
• 1:01:34
  know, you're in the Northeast. I call Caba or Mark or those
• 1:01:37
  guys at Harvard, you know, like, you know, hey, I'm having
• 1:01:40
  struggles with cushions. Are you able to do any portion
• 1:01:44
  of that during this time? But you're so busy, man.
• 1:01:47
  I I don't know how you could. You know what Mike, I am busy,
• 1:01:50
  but I go out of my way to do it because I do consider this a
• 1:01:53
  professional. I do consider, I take this very
• 1:01:56
  seriously. You know, for formal stuff, I, I
• 1:01:58
  do have USATF Level 1 and I'm looking into doing a level 2,
• 1:02:03
  but they are a lot more in depth than the level 1.
• 1:02:05
  So it's it's and I've also I've I don't have yet, but I've been
• 1:02:10
  working on my personal trainer certification just because it I.
• 1:02:13
  Think I'm busy enough? Well, I think.
• 1:02:16
  Tell me, tell me, tell me this. I I never asked this question.
• 1:02:19
  I'm so sorry. Tell me you're you're single.
• 1:02:23
  I I currently am seeing someone but I've been single.
• 1:02:25
  For a while in the world, dude. Well, I've I've been single for
• 1:02:31
  a while and that's part of the reason.
• 1:02:33
  OK, so I never asked that for many reasons, but I was just
• 1:02:37
  like, bro, how in the world do you also put?
• 1:02:38
  Because, you know, you're a Family Guy, meaning you love
• 1:02:40
  your mom and dad. And so I was like, yeah, so I
• 1:02:42
  see a lot of still like, man, I'm making sure I'm at dinner
• 1:02:44
  every Sunday night or whatever, you know, those kind of things.
• 1:02:45
  I'm like, how would you do a personal relationship during
• 1:02:48
  this, brother? Holy cow.
• 1:02:50
  That's hard. I mean, that is hard.
• 1:02:51
  But you know, she's very understanding.
• 1:02:53
  I actually she's, I met her through her cousin who I
• 1:02:56
  coached. So she's very, she's very
• 1:02:59
  understanding of the origin. And by the way, that's very
• 1:03:02
  validating of what the kids think of me.
• 1:03:05
  Put in a good word. For me, right, right.
• 1:03:09
  So I think that's an advantage that she kind of gets how
• 1:03:12
  important coaching is. But but yeah, so I do have USATF
• 1:03:16
  level one. I've been working on my personal
• 1:03:18
  trainer cert every year since I started coaching, even when I
• 1:03:21
  was at Swampscott Middle. I've attended the Mass State
• 1:03:24
  Track Coaches Association, New England Clinic.
• 1:03:26
  Yeah. Which, by the way, Mike, we
• 1:03:28
  should I I'll fly you out too. It's a terrific weekend.
• 1:03:31
  Yeah. No, it really is.
• 1:03:32
  I, Harry Marr was there. When?
• 1:03:35
  He called, presented Ryan Vanta. A lot of these, you know, guys
• 1:03:40
  that I, I, I hear about has been there several times and I just,
• 1:03:45
  I've learned so much. I learned so much that weekend.
• 1:03:48
  I stay the night, you know, I, I get to talk track for a weekend.
• 1:03:52
  I love this. I love that we're sitting down
• 1:03:54
  talking track and I hope that that comes through.
• 1:03:57
  Absolutely. So I definitely, I go way out of
• 1:04:00
  my way to, to attend that and I, I do, there's so much good stuff
• 1:04:05
  online. You know, I mean, I found your
• 1:04:07
  podcast through just, you know, looking at that, all the good
• 1:04:11
  stuff going on online, always trying to learn more.
• 1:04:14
  There are several coaches who I follow, but I I would like to do
• 1:04:18
  more formal. Stuff.
• 1:04:21
  But that, you know, that stuff takes money and time and those
• 1:04:24
  two things that seem to only be in in shorter and shorter
• 1:04:28
  supplies sometimes. Yeah, no, no doubt.
• 1:04:30
  I think the I wonder sometimes I'm a huge coaching education
• 1:04:34
  proponent, you know, it was it, it changed my coaching
• 1:04:37
  trajectory for sure. My kids are a lot better after
• 1:04:40
  going through some of that, yeah.
• 1:04:42
  I can't believe what I didn't. Know yeah, right.
• 1:04:44
  Like do do you ever this is always a test to me.
• 1:04:48
  Do you ever. And you're still so young in
• 1:04:50
  your career, but you've you've coached for a while now.
• 1:04:52
  Do you ever like talk to former athletes and be like, hey man,
• 1:04:55
  I'm sorry I had OK good. Yeah to me that is a testament
• 1:04:59
  to like, are you a good coach or not?
• 1:05:01
  Meaning like if you're still doing the same thing, I'm sorry
• 1:05:03
  if you're listening and this is you, but this is I think this is
• 1:05:05
  the truth. If you're still doing, if you're
• 1:05:06
  in year 10 and you're still doing the same things you did in
• 1:05:08
  year 1, I don't know, I feel like you might, should have
• 1:05:12
  learned some things by then. I, I don't feel like you come
• 1:05:14
  out the gate in year 1 and you're just perfect, no matter
• 1:05:17
  who your coach might have been or whatnot.
• 1:05:19
  I just don't know. So, you know, I look back every
• 1:05:21
  once in a while, you know, it's been, you know, a long time now,
• 1:05:23
  30 years. But every once in a while I'll
• 1:05:26
  come across a kid I used to coach, you know, back in the
• 1:05:28
  high school days. And I'm just like, hey, man, I'm
• 1:05:30
  sorry, man. Wait.
• 1:05:32
  How much better you could have been knowing what I know now?
• 1:05:37
  So sorry, so sorry. I love it.
• 1:05:40
  Cool. Well, that's good.
• 1:05:41
  You know, I think the pursuit of education is as important as
• 1:05:46
  education. Now, obviously education is
• 1:05:49
  important for someone who goes all the way through law school.
• 1:05:51
  You you probably have a good understanding of how important
• 1:05:54
  education is in that regards, but I think the pursuit of
• 1:05:58
  trying to get to that education is a big check mark of you're on
• 1:06:03
  the right path. You know, some people just push
• 1:06:06
  back it like, I don't need to do that level 1 stuff.
• 1:06:08
  I don't need to do the coaches Academy at USTFCAI, don't need
• 1:06:12
  to look at that, all this stuff. I know what I know.
• 1:06:14
  I'm almost said I'm an old school coach, but you know that
• 1:06:17
  that would be kind of in that vein of like, I know what I do,
• 1:06:19
  what I do. And it's like, yeah, yeah.
• 1:06:21
  And maybe you're achieving success.
• 1:06:23
  That's not bad. I'm not going to judge you for
• 1:06:26
  that. But could they be better?
• 1:06:28
  You know, like could you just even one extra thing like could
• 1:06:31
  the kids be even better? You know, could you get more out
• 1:06:34
  of them, you know, from their kind of given talent?
• 1:06:36
  So I think being able to go out of your way and do things and
• 1:06:40
  maybe you aren't achieving, being able to do all the things
• 1:06:42
  that you want to do coaching education wise, like, you know,
• 1:06:45
  blank checkbook and blank calendar.
• 1:06:47
  I would go do Altus apprentice thing and I would go do level
• 1:06:50
  twos. And it's like, yeah, well, you
• 1:06:52
  know, there's a thing called real life and you, you got to
• 1:06:55
  deal with that that first. So I, I, I, it's very
• 1:06:58
  commendable that you're doing what you do and that you're in
• 1:07:00
  pursuit of even more. I think that's a, that's a,
• 1:07:02
  that's a big deal. It's a good, good job.
• 1:07:04
  Thank you. No, that means a lot.
• 1:07:06
  Thanks. So let's get to today.
• 1:07:10
  Sure, you're not you, you kind of alluded this.
• 1:07:12
  You're not in the school system now, are you?
• 1:07:15
  So you passed the bar. You said that's a that's is that
• 1:07:18
  really as hard as they say? Or is it like legend and lore?
• 1:07:23
  Like because you went through it and you did it like, well, I
• 1:07:25
  need to make sure that people think it was a huge deal.
• 1:07:26
  Someone say it's a big deal. Like you know how?
• 1:07:29
  How is it actually? Yeah, I don't like to hype
• 1:07:31
  things up that that don't live up to the hype.
• 1:07:34
  The bar was as hard as they make it sound.
• 1:07:39
  It was wild. It was an unpleasant few months.
• 1:07:41
  Because I hear about what you said about like I had to take
• 1:07:44
  off a few months to study and I can't think of a single thing
• 1:07:47
  that I would want to first of all, but study for three months,
• 1:07:50
  like take off and do nothing but that.
• 1:07:52
  Like how this has nothing to attract.
• 1:07:54
  But I'm just curious like, okay, you've done all that study and
• 1:07:57
  it's time to take the test. Is it like I took the ACT and if
• 1:08:01
  I remember right, that was like 4 hours.
• 1:08:03
  Like is it a four hour test? Is it a weekend test?
• 1:08:06
  Like what it is it written? Is it Scantron multiple choice?
• 1:08:10
  What would break us down to kind of those things?
• 1:08:12
  Well, first, the really important thing is that I was
• 1:08:14
  still coaching indoor track. I I didn't take that off.
• 1:08:17
  OK, OK. And I needed that because I
• 1:08:19
  needed something. That's a great.
• 1:08:21
  Even though at the time I was like, I can't spend all these
• 1:08:23
  hours at the Reggie Lewis Center.
• 1:08:25
  I should be studying, but you know, I did it.
• 1:08:27
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:08:28
  So it's it's two days back-to-back, six hours each
• 1:08:31
  day, and it's broken into 4/3 hour sections.
• 1:08:36
  Yeah, two and two. Yep, Yep.
• 1:08:38
  And an hour in between for lunch and it's, I mean, it's.
• 1:08:42
  It's is it, is it written like you're writing paragraphs?
• 1:08:45
  Is it oral? Is it ABC?
• 1:08:46
  The. First day is all typed.
• 1:08:49
  I mean, it's, it's written, but you're, you're typing a the
• 1:08:52
  first 3 hours is sort of a, it's a fake client where they give
• 1:08:55
  you like fake exhibits. And this is my legal situation.
• 1:08:58
  Here's some laws to use in this fictional state.
• 1:09:01
  And then the second three hours is 6 open response questions
• 1:09:05
  with here's the situation. Guy falls, falls down the
• 1:09:08
  stairs, but he had signed the contract, but his will was, you
• 1:09:12
  know, and talk, discuss. And then the second day is 2
• 1:09:16
  sets of a 100 multiple choice. OK.
• 1:09:19
  And is it open book? And the reason I say that
• 1:09:21
  because, you know, my understanding of lawyers, like
• 1:09:23
  really you're just readers, like you just read a ton.
• 1:09:26
  So I would think you always have resources like we don't expect
• 1:09:30
  our lawyers to just know things off top of their heads.
• 1:09:31
  It's just some things, obviously, but you know, I want
• 1:09:33
  you to like dig deep into what these things are.
• 1:09:35
  So is this open book? Like do you have AI, don't know
• 1:09:38
  a lawyer's dictionary or something that you're allowed to
• 1:09:40
  use as well? Right, you would think, but but
• 1:09:43
  no, it's, it's completely closed book.
• 1:09:45
  The whole thing. Yeah, they lock your phone away
• 1:09:47
  for the entirety of the of the Yeah.
• 1:09:51
  So it's, Yeah, it's. It's so that that's got to be
• 1:09:54
  where the intensity ratches up where I got to study because
• 1:09:56
  you're you're really trying to memorize then a lot of these
• 1:09:58
  that's. What it is, Yeah, it's it's a
• 1:09:59
  lot of memorization. And and you mentioned this
• 1:10:02
  fictional state as far as part of the test, but isn't the bar
• 1:10:05
  test it it's different in Massachusetts as it is in
• 1:10:08
  California as it's right? Don't you have to pass the bar
• 1:10:10
  test in your state or no? Yeah, so you have to pass it in
• 1:10:13
  your state. A large number of states use the
• 1:10:15
  UBE, the uniform bar exam. You know, some like California's
• 1:10:19
  one that they do their own thing, of course, and there's a
• 1:10:23
  lot of. Does that mean there's
• 1:10:24
  reciprocity like you're a lawyer and reciprocity Connecticut or
• 1:10:27
  something? The score can change.
• 1:10:30
  So you could get a high enough score to practice in Minnesota
• 1:10:33
  but not in Massachusetts on the same test.
• 1:10:36
  And every state has their own additional masters had a 50
• 1:10:41
  question open book. Do it whenever you get time.
• 1:10:44
  Sort of if the Massachusetts addendum, right?
• 1:10:46
  It's not called addendum, but it's something like that.
• 1:10:49
  I know New York has a large requirement.
• 1:10:51
  I don't know what off the top of my head, but I know friends who
• 1:10:54
  have looked to transfer to New York.
• 1:10:56
  Oh, but there's all this extra stuff you have to do.
• 1:10:57
  Never mind, you know what I mean.
• 1:11:01
  And how much does it cost to take the test?
• 1:11:05
  Oh God, I don't even remember. But like, is it in the hundreds
• 1:11:08
  or thousands? Yeah, it's.
• 1:11:10
  I think it's near 1000. Yeah, I forget but I'm also
• 1:11:14
  confused because you also have to pay for the study software
• 1:11:17
  that everyone uses. You don't dare do it without the
• 1:11:20
  book type. Thing and.
• 1:11:22
  I don't, I don't remember. If you fail, can you, do you
• 1:11:25
  fail the whole thing or can you only fail sections and can you
• 1:11:28
  retake those sections? And is there a time frame in
• 1:11:30
  between that? I'm not really going to go to
• 1:11:32
  law school, I'm just really curious.
• 1:11:33
  That sounds like you might 2 * a year.
• 1:11:37
  It's offered 2 * a year. If you fail, it's all or
• 1:11:39
  nothing. Is that, I'm sorry, I was going
• 1:11:41
  to, is that universal or is that Massachusetts two times?
• 1:11:43
  That is universal. Really.
• 1:11:45
  So in the whole country, twice a year.
• 1:11:47
  Yeah, February and July. Oh wow, so.
• 1:11:51
  Is 90% sure if I'm saying anything wrong.
• 1:11:53
  I mean, I don't know how many legal scholars listen to this.
• 1:11:56
  Podcast, I think you're saying I'm one?
• 1:11:57
  So I should know. There'll be like 5 and there and
• 1:12:00
  there won't be two of those. All right?
• 1:12:01
  Yeah, yeah. So that means like in the
• 1:12:04
  country on these two weekends, it is like lawyer weekend.
• 1:12:08
  Like, oh man, it's bar weekend. Wow, that's just amazing to me.
• 1:12:11
  Yeah, Yeah, yeah. That's.
• 1:12:12
  Cool. Yeah, the results trickle out at
• 1:12:14
  different times depending on the state.
• 1:12:16
  And I was, I was going to get to that.
• 1:12:17
  So, but can you? Can you fail only one section or
• 1:12:20
  do you fail the whole thing? It is it is all or nothing and
• 1:12:23
  you fail the whole thing. You know, I had a friend not to,
• 1:12:27
  but I had a friend who failed just barely and, and they were
• 1:12:31
  able to practice in Minnesota or, or you know, several other
• 1:12:34
  jurisdictions, but not in Massachusetts just by a couple
• 1:12:37
  points. And she ended up taking it with
• 1:12:39
  me and we passed together, which was a wonderful.
• 1:12:42
  Did they tell you what you missed or did they just say Yep
• 1:12:46
  you didn't pass bro take it again.
• 1:12:48
  They'll give you 2 scores, one on the written portion and one
• 1:12:52
  on the multiple choice portion. Then it adds up and you got to
• 1:12:54
  hit the number, The magic number in Massachusetts, it's 270.
• 1:12:58
  You got to get a 270 so. Similar to SAT, if I remember
• 1:13:00
  correctly. I didn't take the SAT, but they
• 1:13:02
  were, Yeah. And they added the other two
• 1:13:04
  parts up math and English or something.
• 1:13:05
  Yeah, that's cool. And how many?
• 1:13:09
  Is there a number? Is there a maximum of times
• 1:13:13
  you're allowed to take the test before they say hey man, this
• 1:13:15
  ain't for you? Or can you take it 10 times and
• 1:13:18
  maybe the 10th time you pass? No, I think you can take it as
• 1:13:20
  many times as you want. You hear the urban legends about
• 1:13:23
  the guy who took it 10 times and then passed.
• 1:13:26
  But yeah, I believe he can take it as many times as you want.
• 1:13:30
  This got to pass. This is all based on TV, but I
• 1:13:33
  see some people who pass the bar and I'm like, they don't seem
• 1:13:36
  all that smart. I've never met a lawyer like
• 1:13:37
  that in person, but I see a lot of billboards.
• 1:13:40
  I'm like, I don't know, man, really.
• 1:13:41
  That guy's a lawyer, You know, it can't be that hard.
• 1:13:44
  So like I always, I kind of like, I always thought this is a
• 1:13:46
  little ego's not bad, but bad ego's bad.
• 1:13:49
  This is a little bit of my bad ego sideboard.
• 1:13:51
  So every once in awhile I'll be like, I don't know, man.
• 1:13:53
  I feel like I could, I could take that test.
• 1:13:55
  I could, I could if I got to study a little bit.
• 1:13:57
  I'm not going to study as much as you people did, but I bet if
• 1:13:59
  I study a little bit I bet I could pass that.
• 1:14:02
  I think I think you could. No, I'd say don't put down your
• 1:14:04
  profession as I say, you know you're laughing at because
• 1:14:07
  you're just like, yeah, bro, good luck.
• 1:14:09
  Yeah, yeah, that'd be $1000 if. You study if you study.
• 1:14:12
  I don't, I don't feel like studying though, so that's fair
• 1:14:13
  enough. That's probably going to be a
• 1:14:15
  that's probably going to be a strike against me right there,
• 1:14:18
  right. That's probably a question,
• 1:14:19
  everyone. Did you study?
• 1:14:20
  No. All right, Just stop.
• 1:14:21
  You're done. Put your pencil down.
• 1:14:23
  Put it down. Put it.
• 1:14:24
  Down save you the seven hours. All right, so now, so you passed
• 1:14:28
  your bar. So are you officially a lawyer
• 1:14:31
  as soon as you pass the bar or Or do you have to like work for
• 1:14:34
  someone or open your own practice?
• 1:14:36
  So you, you just have to swear in.
• 1:14:38
  So I'm, I'm sworn in with the Supreme Judicial Court of
• 1:14:40
  Massachusetts. So I, I'm a, I'm a, you know,
• 1:14:44
  Tristan Smith, Esquire. Is that what Esquire means?
• 1:14:48
  Apparently that's what I found out.
• 1:14:49
  Isn't that awesome? Did you?
• 1:14:50
  You're too young for this. You probably never watched the
• 1:14:52
  show Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure.
• 1:14:56
  No, no, but I've heard of it. First of all, you gotta watch
• 1:14:58
  it. It's.
• 1:14:58
  Great, It sounds like I'd. Like, yeah, it's great.
• 1:15:02
  It's great. It's a Stoner movie.
• 1:15:03
  Before Stoner movies became cool, like Super Bad and
• 1:15:07
  Pineapple Express and all that. Yeah, this was the prequel to
• 1:15:09
  those. And so these two Stoner rocker
• 1:15:11
  guys, and he always introduced himself as Billy Bill, whatever
• 1:15:16
  his name was, Nelson Esquire. And I knew I have a feeling he
• 1:15:20
  did not pass the bar. He was not an actual lawyer.
• 1:15:22
  So I always wondered, what is that?
• 1:15:23
  Like, just the title. I can add that.
• 1:15:24
  Can I just become Mike Cunningham Esquire or is that.
• 1:15:26
  Yeah, I don't know. Yeah.
• 1:15:28
  We're. We're far from the track here,
• 1:15:30
  Tristan, But I know. Sorry about that.
• 1:15:32
  I'm having a blast. So I really don't care.
• 1:15:33
  Yeah. Go ahead.
• 1:15:34
  Go ahead. It's my podcast.
• 1:15:35
  I can do what I want. That's true.
• 1:15:37
  That's. OK, so you pass the bar, you're
• 1:15:40
  a lawyer. Did that happen?
• 1:15:41
  You said February. Did that happen this summer?
• 1:15:44
  So I found out this is an unbelievable story.
• 1:15:47
  I, I should put this on my Tinder bio if I'm single ever
• 1:15:50
  again. The team was volunteering at the
• 1:15:53
  local Center for aging. So the Senior Center, we were
• 1:15:59
  volunteering. We like to do team volunteer
• 1:16:01
  projects. We were, you know, calling bingo
• 1:16:03
  and helping them plant. And I look at my e-mail and it
• 1:16:06
  says bar results. And, you know, my heart, like,
• 1:16:09
  dropped my stomach. Yeah, because I I didn't know if
• 1:16:12
  I should look at it, but I couldn't.
• 1:16:13
  How I had to know. How long after the test?
• 1:16:16
  So this was this was end of April, so a couple a little over
• 1:16:20
  two months. So you got just two months of
• 1:16:22
  just not knowing anything. You feel good.
• 1:16:26
  But man, maybe I should have answered it this way, you know?
• 1:16:29
  No one. I don't think anyone feels good
• 1:16:31
  walking out of the board. No one just walks outgoing.
• 1:16:34
  Got it. Suckers.
• 1:16:35
  Well, it's just right. Exactly.
• 1:16:37
  It's just so much. It's it's oh, I should I have
• 1:16:39
  said this? Yeah.
• 1:16:40
  Yeah. It's it's it's, it's a difficult
• 1:16:43
  test that way. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:16:44
  So you get this e-mail and the heart rate goes up.
• 1:16:47
  Yeah, I, I didn't know if I so, but I have, I had to.
• 1:16:49
  I mean, I I stepped out. Had to.
• 1:16:52
  Had to. Right.
• 1:16:53
  It says pass. And I was like, Oh my God, So
• 1:16:55
  like, what do I? So I walk in and the kids are
• 1:16:58
  calling again. We're calling bingo.
• 1:17:00
  We're organizing the the Christmas decorations.
• 1:17:02
  It's a wonderful group of people at the, the Lynn, the you know,
• 1:17:05
  the Lynn Council on Aging does does an excellent job.
• 1:17:07
  And you want to tell someone this is a?
• 1:17:09
  Big. I had to, yeah.
• 1:17:10
  And so I remember I went up to, I think it was my top 2 Miller,
• 1:17:15
  my top Miller who's now running at Stone Hill Division 1.
• 1:17:19
  And I just said, hey, I have to show you something.
• 1:17:21
  It was like what I was like, so I show you reason.
• 1:17:24
  He like looked at me and I was like, yeah, so then some other
• 1:17:28
  people like, what are you looking at?
• 1:17:29
  I was like, so I just kind of sort of like showed it.
• 1:17:33
  So it was, it was wonderful. And then, you know, the, the,
• 1:17:35
  the, the seniors were cheering. I mean, it was, you know, it's
• 1:17:39
  really I, I couldn't think of a better story.
• 1:17:41
  You know, I was, I was volunteering at the Senior
• 1:17:43
  Center. Oh yes, I do.
• 1:17:45
  I very much have the the scenario of Better Call Saul in
• 1:17:50
  my head. Yeah, yeah, I assume lawyers and
• 1:17:53
  wannabe lawyers all watch Saul and Breaking Bad.
• 1:17:56
  Yeah. Of course.
• 1:17:57
  Like that's probably part of the test, right?
• 1:18:00
  How? How long did it take you to call
• 1:18:03
  your parents? No, I walked out immediately.
• 1:18:06
  Well I called my dad on the phone.
• 1:18:07
  I told my mom in person because I wanted so I waited till I got
• 1:18:11
  home later. Now, your dad's the lawyer, so
• 1:18:13
  he was kind of like, good, he finally caught up.
• 1:18:16
  Like, yeah, I expected this of your mom was just overjoyed.
• 1:18:19
  Like, yeah, he transferred three times.
• 1:18:21
  I wasn't sure it was going to happen.
• 1:18:22
  That's what Mom was. Thinking yeah, right.
• 1:18:24
  No, they were, they were both very supportive.
• 1:18:26
  I mean, I don't want to say shocked, but definitely very
• 1:18:32
  happy. You know, elated maybe maybe
• 1:18:35
  elated's the right word, but there was definitely a look of
• 1:18:38
  of, you know, sort of the, the odds.
• 1:18:41
  It's a big deal. Absolutely, yeah.
• 1:18:44
  So, but yeah, so that was. Past that, get through track
• 1:18:48
  season and so now you know when we're recording this, it's
• 1:18:52
  October. I'm not sure when you're
• 1:18:55
  actually listening to this yet. You could be listening to this
• 1:18:57
  in 2032. For online, who knows.
• 1:18:58
  This is Evergreen Bay. This lives forever.
• 1:19:00
  That's the I love that. I love the scary part sometimes.
• 1:19:05
  What are you doing coaching. If you're a lawyer, you did all
• 1:19:09
  that work. I assume you didn't do all that
• 1:19:11
  work to just have the Esquire at the end of your name that you
• 1:19:14
  actually want to practice in some form or fashion.
• 1:19:18
  What's going on with coaching? Yeah.
• 1:19:21
  So right now it's it's cross country season.
• 1:19:23
  We're in the thick of it. We have a a great very young
• 1:19:26
  team, more 6th graders than seniors.
• 1:19:28
  So it's a little. Different from 6th or 12.
• 1:19:31
  Yeah, it's kind of like back when I started a little bit
• 1:19:34
  sometimes I'm doing a lot of first aid, a lot of falls, but
• 1:19:37
  I'm getting, I'm getting good at it.
• 1:19:40
  We're enjoying it a lot. I'm preparing for indoor
• 1:19:42
  preparing. For Are you still the head
• 1:19:43
  coach? Yep, Yep, I'm, I'm sticking
• 1:19:45
  around and I am, I'm working, I would say tirelessly to forge a
• 1:19:52
  path that works. Are you are you luring?
• 1:19:56
  Are you luring? Yeah, practicing.
• 1:19:57
  That's what you call it, not luring.
• 1:19:58
  Are you practicing? I'm.
• 1:20:00
  I'm I don't have anything right now.
• 1:20:02
  Is is the truth? I've interviewed a few places,
• 1:20:04
  some places just haven't. Is it hard?
• 1:20:08
  It I'm a hard sell, you know, no legal experience.
• 1:20:11
  I want to leave at 2:00 every day to go.
• 1:20:14
  OK. Coach with the kids.
• 1:20:16
  And I. And I acknowledge that.
• 1:20:17
  Yeah, as I say, you can't be a hard sell, meaning like there's
• 1:20:20
  other people who are just a fresh off their bar exam.
• 1:20:22
  That's that's a common thing, if you will.
• 1:20:24
  But you're right. You're like a but at two.
• 1:20:27
  Yeah, you're not selling yourself.
• 1:20:29
  Like, hey, I'll be the guy that's here at midnight reading
• 1:20:31
  blah, blah, blah. You know, again, I watched
• 1:20:32
  Better Call Saul. I remember how much, you know,
• 1:20:34
  reading they had to do. You're not that.
• 1:20:36
  Yeah, I see. You know what I I would do the
• 1:20:38
  the the reading at midnight because I can't do it from 2:00
• 1:20:42
  to 5:00. After.
• 1:20:43
  Yeah, exactly. You know what I mean?
• 1:20:44
  And I absolutely, and I've never and Mike, this is important.
• 1:20:47
  I have never since I started call, if you count being a
• 1:20:51
  student as a job, I have never worked one job since high school
• 1:20:56
  in my life. I've always had multiple things
• 1:20:58
  going. I mean, I was coaching during my
• 1:21:00
  state Rep campaign, but I wasn't going to let that go, you know,
• 1:21:04
  and, and I love it. So, you know, I'm, I'm willing
• 1:21:09
  to do it. I, I, I just need to find the
• 1:21:11
  right fit. And I think looking around Lynn
• 1:21:14
  and a maybe a smaller firm, someone who's looking for
• 1:21:16
  someone part time who knows my ties to this community, I think
• 1:21:21
  that that is the way to to make it work.
• 1:21:25
  Can you not open up your own practice?
• 1:21:28
  That's also crossed my. Mind.
• 1:21:29
  Oh, OK. I didn't know if like if that's
• 1:21:31
  not really done until you, you, you know, most people, 99% of
• 1:21:34
  people who have their own practice have worked in a firm
• 1:21:36
  for at least five years or something.
• 1:21:38
  Yeah, no, I mean it's doable. I just.
• 1:21:40
  There's a lot of support from a firm like, you know, you open
• 1:21:44
  your own shop, there's a lot of things you're on the hook for
• 1:21:46
  and with no certainty, yeah. And I, you know, frankly,
• 1:21:49
  there's, there's a lot they don't teach you in law school.
• 1:21:52
  And I think that's true of any school.
• 1:21:53
  You know, you sort of get on there's it's the little stuff.
• 1:21:56
  It's where do I file this? It's what stuff like that you.
• 1:22:00
  Know for sure right. Even if you get a education
• 1:22:02
  degree and you become a third grade teacher, a 9th grade
• 1:22:04
  teacher doesn't matter until you get into that school and start
• 1:22:08
  teaching. They didn't tell you all these
• 1:22:09
  other things because it's just impossible.
• 1:22:11
  It's just impossible. It's a, it's a college.
• 1:22:13
  It's not A at work, you know, it's not a internship, it's not
• 1:22:17
  an at work apprenticeship. You know, it's not that it is
• 1:22:20
  education and then you know, there's education and then there
• 1:22:22
  is practicality, actually putting it to practice.
• 1:22:25
  So that makes sense. That makes sense.
• 1:22:27
  So what do you So what do you envision?
• 1:22:33
  Well, right now, well, like I said, you know, my predecessor,
• 1:22:35
  Dom Fanelli, he was, he was an attorney, is an attorney.
• 1:22:38
  He's he's retired from coaching now, which is how I ended up
• 1:22:41
  where I am. You know, he has his own firm.
• 1:22:45
  He he says to me all the time, don't do it.
• 1:22:48
  Don't do it. It's crazy to run a track team
• 1:22:50
  and a firm at once. But he he, he loved every
• 1:22:53
  second. I'm saying he did it though,
• 1:22:55
  right? Yeah.
• 1:22:55
  Right. And he did it for and he didn't
• 1:22:57
  do it for like one year. He didn't try to get it.
• 1:22:59
  He did it for, for over 20 years and even want to state
• 1:23:02
  championship in cross country back at Swampscott.
• 1:23:05
  So, and that's sort of, that's sort of what I envisioned me
• 1:23:09
  going towards. You know, I don't know, I am at
• 1:23:12
  a bit of a crossroads. I don't, I mean, this is my 8th
• 1:23:14
  year at Saint Mary's, my 9th year coaching overall.
• 1:23:17
  So even though I'm only, you know, I'm in my, I'm in, I'm 28.
• 1:23:20
  But, you know, if, if, if I'm on the second-half of my coaching
• 1:23:23
  career, which I hope I'm not, maybe I'm on the second-half of
• 1:23:26
  my first act. But even if I am, I mean, I have
• 1:23:29
  given a lot of time to this. And, and I've like I said, I've
• 1:23:33
  loved every second. I'd love to keep this thing
• 1:23:35
  going, especially now that I've been on the podcast.
• 1:23:37
  I don't want to be, you know, this is my last appearance as
• 1:23:40
  Coach Smith. Five years from now, like he
• 1:23:42
  wouldn't have to have Tristan Smith guy, right?
• 1:23:43
  Exactly. Coaching no more.
• 1:23:45
  Yeah, exactly. It was last day.
• 1:23:46
  That was his last day. Right, right.
• 1:23:48
  You know, and, and, but at the same time, if that is the
• 1:23:51
  reality, if, you know, if I end up, you know, meeting someone
• 1:23:55
  and we start a family and, you know, it's, it's, it's hard
• 1:23:58
  hours and not the best pay. That's just the industry.
• 1:24:01
  That's nothing to do with Saint Mary's or, or track.
• 1:24:04
  It's just the industry. You know, I, I still think I've
• 1:24:08
  made a big impact, but I'd like to keep doing it.
• 1:24:11
  And and that's, and it's, you know, why would I stop if I, if
• 1:24:14
  I'm doing what I think is good work and loving it.
• 1:24:18
  So I'm not sure, I'm not sure I can answer your question right
• 1:24:20
  now. It's an interesting timing that
• 1:24:22
  this interview fell right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:24:24
  It's it's I'll be interested in looking back at this in six
• 1:24:27
  months. Yeah, that that's, you know,
• 1:24:29
  first of all, I'm disappointed that you don't have a crystal
• 1:24:32
  ball that you can tell me what's the path forward.
• 1:24:34
  I'm really, you know, kind of thought that would be a lawyer
• 1:24:36
  one-on-one thing. But too, you know, some
• 1:24:39
  interesting things you, you said there kind of made me think
• 1:24:41
  about, you know, when I talk to coaches, whether they're doesn't
• 1:24:45
  matter high school or college level, you know, it's very true
• 1:24:48
  that 99.9% won't go to the next level, meaning 99.9% of the kids
• 1:24:52
  you coach aren't going to college.
• 1:24:54
  I think the average is 7%. So let's, let's say 93% of the
• 1:24:57
  kids in aggregate are ever going to run in college and in
• 1:25:00
  college, you know, for sure 99.9% are not going to GoPro.
• 1:25:04
  However, 100% of those kids are going to go on to become moms,
• 1:25:08
  dads, spouses, business owners, clergy, teachers, coaches,
• 1:25:13
  lawyers, etcetera, right? That's a huge impact.
• 1:25:16
  You know, that our sport teaches us and our coach teaches our
• 1:25:19
  young people. You know, I think as I'm
• 1:25:21
  listening to you and you know, I certainly, I selfishly hope just
• 1:25:26
  in that, you know, in 40. So what are you are you?
• 1:25:29
  You got to be like, I don't know, I'm guessing 2728 ish.
• 1:25:34
  Yeah, I'm 28. Yeah, perfect.
• 1:25:35
  Nailed it. So yeah, you're 20 years my
• 1:25:38
  younger. So when I was your age, Oh my
• 1:25:41
  God, that's how it's so old. Well, seriously, when I said I
• 1:25:46
  was like, jeez, man, OK, I'm the grandpa with the mic now here.
• 1:25:52
  But when I was 28, I was coaching.
• 1:25:56
  I I was probably somewhere transitioning from Ball State to
• 1:25:59
  Mississippi State. And now as I look 20 years past,
• 1:26:03
  I'm on my third career, right? So I coached for 10 years.
• 1:26:06
  I did a year as a professional poker player and now 18 years
• 1:26:09
  here at Gil Athletics. Interesting.
• 1:26:12
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:26:13
  Yeah. But I say that to mean like,
• 1:26:17
  even if 20 years from now you're not coaching, and selfishly, I
• 1:26:21
  hope you are, hope you're coaching 20-30, you know, for my
• 1:26:23
  own professional, you know, you know, if you if you become a
• 1:26:26
  lawyer, you're not going to buy very much Gil equipment, right.
• 1:26:28
  So I need you to be a track coach to buy Gil equipment.
• 1:26:30
  We do buy a lot. I appreciate that.
• 1:26:32
  Thank you so much. I appreciate that, but even if
• 1:26:36
  you're not, you're still, first of all, you leave influence into
• 1:26:40
  the sport. You've affected 8 plus years of
• 1:26:43
  kids in a positive manner, but you are affected positively by
• 1:26:48
  the sport and by the profession. Like you know, you're.
• 1:26:51
  I believe if you leave today and go on to have a great law career
• 1:26:58
  20 years from now, I would be able to say you're a better
• 1:27:00
  lawyer because you coached for nine years.
• 1:27:03
  You have more empathy for other people.
• 1:27:05
  You have an understanding of young people better than if
• 1:27:08
  you'd never done that. You're only basing it off of
• 1:27:10
  your experience as a young person.
• 1:27:13
  You understand teachers, educational system better
• 1:27:17
  because you were in it. Yeah, you learn, you know, a lot
• 1:27:21
  of other things as far as time management, organization,
• 1:27:25
  prioritization. These are all things that you
• 1:27:28
  need to be not only not even just a good coach, just to be a
• 1:27:31
  coach. You got to learn those things.
• 1:27:32
  And obviously as you master them, you become, you know, even
• 1:27:35
  a better coach in that regard. So what's interesting is you,
• 1:27:38
  you made AI think analogy is the right word here that I use a lot
• 1:27:44
  when I'm talking to coaches even a little bit older than you.
• 1:27:48
  You know, it's easy as a 283035 year old coach to think like, oh
• 1:27:53
  man, I've been doing this for 10 or 15 years at that point.
• 1:27:56
  Even coaches have been doing it for 20 years and they're 40
• 1:27:58
  something. And it's easy to think like, oh
• 1:28:00
  man, you know, I've done a lot, you know, probably near the end
• 1:28:05
  of my career. I know I'm still going to coach
• 1:28:06
  for a while, but you know, you know, what else is it really
• 1:28:08
  going to be for me? Etcetera, etcetera.
• 1:28:10
  Well, when you think about it, you are, you've done 8 years,
• 1:28:14
  nine years of coaching. You know, if I use a 400 meter,
• 1:28:18
  you know what? I've never done this because
• 1:28:20
  you're a hurdle. I'm going to use a hurdle
• 1:28:21
  analogy. It's easy to think like, oh, I'm
• 1:28:23
  at my 7th or 8th hurdle. Like I can see that finish line.
• 1:28:26
  It's still it's still out there, but I'm at the 7th, 8th hurdle.
• 1:28:28
  I can see it. The reality is you're probably
• 1:28:32
  more at like the first hurdle, you're probably barely out of
• 1:28:35
  the blocks because if you've coached nine years or 28, you
• 1:28:39
  know, it's not unheard of, especially as we continue to get
• 1:28:41
  better in, in medical situations for you to coach to 6065.
• 1:28:46
  I mean, you know, some coaches that are 70 years old still
• 1:28:48
  getting it right. So that is so let's just, you
• 1:28:51
  know, I'm from Alabama, so math is not my strong suit.
• 1:28:53
  So let's round up so 30 years old.
• 1:28:55
  So let's say it's, let's say you get to retire at 60 and that's,
• 1:28:58
  you know, probably not realistic.
• 1:29:01
  I don't think I'm retiring at 60.
• 1:29:04
  And I've, you know, I've done some really good things with the
• 1:29:06
  retirement and I still don't think I'm gonna be there.
• 1:29:07
  That's 30 years. You've coached for 9:00.
• 1:29:11
  That means there are still three more of what you've done already
• 1:29:15
  three times over. You know what I'm saying?
• 1:29:18
  Like you've done a lot. And I know at 9 years you've
• 1:29:21
  done a lot and seen a lot and you've been there for your kids,
• 1:29:24
  have been through different negative things, have been there
• 1:29:26
  for your kids when they've been through a lot of positive
• 1:29:27
  things. You're going to do that again.
• 1:29:29
  And that's going to be 20 years of coaching.
• 1:29:31
  You're going to do that again. You got a lot to go.
• 1:29:33
  That's why I say you're at hurdle one maybe, you know, and
• 1:29:38
  that's cool. That's exciting, right?
• 1:29:40
  And even if you decide to do the three hurdle race and go on to,
• 1:29:46
  to do a law, law, law career, yeah, law career, a career in
• 1:29:51
  the law, doing those 3 hurdles is going to make you better in
• 1:29:56
  that for not just your career, but your personal life, your
• 1:29:59
  family life, your, your, your personal, personal life.
• 1:30:01
  You know, whether, you know, you get married and I have kids,
• 1:30:03
  things like that. It's going to make you better,
• 1:30:05
  man. So it's just cool.
• 1:30:06
  Like you kind of, you started using that analogy of like act
• 1:30:08
  one and things like that. It's like, that's exactly right,
• 1:30:09
  bro. Exactly.
• 1:30:11
  You are early. If this were a book, like we're
• 1:30:13
  in chapter 2, bro. And there's 80 chapters to go
• 1:30:16
  and there's volumes here. So it's just really cool to to
• 1:30:19
  see that, to be frank, to sit, you know, sit on this side and
• 1:30:21
  and see that it's really, it's really cool, man.
• 1:30:25
  Thank you so much. I really appreciate that.
• 1:30:26
  And you know, wherever it goes. Yeah.
• 1:30:29
  It's been terrific. It will continue to be terrific.
• 1:30:32
  And you know. You seem like the kind of person
• 1:30:34
  that stays open to things and that's a, that's a, that's a,
• 1:30:38
  that's a strong posture. You know, a lot of times people
• 1:30:40
  are close and, and honestly, the way you were, not the way you
• 1:30:43
  were telling story, the story as you were telling it, from my
• 1:30:46
  experience, made me think a little bit more closed with you.
• 1:30:49
  And, and here's what I mean by that is, you know, I think it's
• 1:30:53
  better when people go to different parts of the country
• 1:30:56
  and, and certainly the world. And I've not done the world, so,
• 1:30:59
  you know, no experience there, but meeting different people of
• 1:31:02
  different cultures and different, you know, what you
• 1:31:04
  guys do in the New England is different than what we do in the
• 1:31:06
  South, which is different than what we do in the Midwest, which
• 1:31:08
  is different than out in the West.
• 1:31:10
  Down to see that I think makes us better humans.
• 1:31:13
  So I always get a little concerned when someone stays in
• 1:31:16
  the same ecosystem, right. And so you went to Fairfield and
• 1:31:19
  you know, how far was Fairfield from home?
• 1:31:22
  Like a a drive? 3 1/2 hours.
• 1:31:25
  Bro, yeah. And you were like, yeah, that's
• 1:31:29
  a little far. That's too far.
• 1:31:30
  That's too far. And I'm like 3 1/2 hours, right?
• 1:31:33
  Like what are you talking about? It's nothing.
• 1:31:36
  You know, in the scheme of driving and things right now in
• 1:31:39
  New England, that could be only a mile.
• 1:31:41
  I've done, I've done your traffic.
• 1:31:42
  At the Oh God, yeah. And then you go to Emmanuel.
• 1:31:45
  How far was that 'cause you got to go home on weekends there, so
• 1:31:47
  I had to be. Yeah, it's we're, we're about 30
• 1:31:49
  minutes north of Boston, depending on traffic.
• 1:31:52
  But yeah, yeah, that's that's what you got to say when you're
• 1:31:54
  in Boston. Yeah, right.
• 1:31:55
  And that was too far and a little bit of too.
• 1:31:57
  I do. I do respect your, I'm gonna
• 1:32:00
  call it your attitude, but your stance of like, why am I paying
• 1:32:02
  for room and board? Like I just see, like I get, I
• 1:32:04
  get that. So I yeah.
• 1:32:05
  It was a little more. That I Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I
• 1:32:08
  get not. A big partier.
• 1:32:09
  I get that, but it was like I wanted to come back home.
• 1:32:12
  So I was a little concerned, like, oh man, are you a
• 1:32:13
  homebody? And there's nothing wrong with
• 1:32:14
  people being homebodies, but it's like, oh man, you're going
• 1:32:17
  to miss out on all this other experiences.
• 1:32:19
  But as your story continues unfold, it's like, oh, you're
• 1:32:21
  open. Like, oh, I I've had plan a of
• 1:32:23
  being a lawyer, but I fell in love with this coaching gig.
• 1:32:26
  Well, that those aren't mutually exclusive.
• 1:32:28
  Like, I could figure this out. And you, you're open to trying
• 1:32:31
  to figure that out. When coach messaged you on
• 1:32:34
  Facebook, it's one thing to be you're a hurdler, not a distance
• 1:32:38
  runner. So a Facebook message, hey, we
• 1:32:39
  got 125 middle school cross country runners.
• 1:32:43
  I need help. No one would have blamed you of
• 1:32:45
  like, Oh yeah, man, that's cool. If you need help on the track
• 1:32:49
  team, I'm your guy. But 100 distance runners, middle
• 1:32:54
  schoolers, by the way, I'm not your guy and you, but instead
• 1:32:58
  you're like, all right, I'm open.
• 1:32:59
  Let's try it. It didn't seem like you were
• 1:33:01
  like, Oh yeah, this is going to be my entree into coaching Was
• 1:33:03
  like, I'll try it. I wouldn't have been surprised
• 1:33:05
  if you were like, you know, after a year, it's like, that's
• 1:33:06
  not for me. So I went to the track team
• 1:33:08
  instead. But you, you were open to that.
• 1:33:09
  That's a cool. Like that's a education.
• 1:33:12
  That's an educated type of stance towards life as being
• 1:33:15
  open to, to learning things. Whether you go that route or
• 1:33:18
  not, that's a different story. That's not part of the
• 1:33:20
  education, but being open to that is a real cool.
• 1:33:23
  That's that's an interesting aspect.
• 1:33:26
  It, it paints a positive light on your parents and the rest of
• 1:33:30
  the ecosystem that help raise your neighbors, other family,
• 1:33:32
  things like that. You, I think you said you had
• 1:33:34
  siblings. That's all, that's all part of
• 1:33:37
  the reason. So it shines a positive light on
• 1:33:39
  them for the way you are today as well.
• 1:33:43
  Definitely, definitely. Well, thank you for saying so.
• 1:33:45
  Yeah, I definitely, I feel the same.
• 1:33:48
  So if it's OK, I liked it. If I have interesting aspects I
• 1:33:55
  like to explore a little little more, you know, year is to kind
• 1:33:59
  of segue us into the the last part of the podcast here.
• 1:34:02
  So you have an interesting look at our sport because you do have
• 1:34:07
  a formal law education knowing that you haven't practiced it.
• 1:34:12
  And I don't know that you need to practice it to be able to
• 1:34:14
  answer this type of question. But you at least the way you
• 1:34:17
  look at things is going to be framed by an education in law.
• 1:34:20
  What do you see in our sport that we need to be doing better
• 1:34:26
  or, Hey, I'm glad we do this because, you know, on a law
• 1:34:30
  side, because, you know, we have to make sure that we're doing
• 1:34:34
  things within the law and that are positive for kids.
• 1:34:37
  And, and I'm not saying that there's necessarily things that
• 1:34:39
  we don't. We we know that certainly there
• 1:34:40
  are things going on in track and field everywhere, by the way,
• 1:34:42
  all sports. And it's not good, bad actors
• 1:34:44
  and things like that. But in a organizational side, is
• 1:34:47
  there anything you've thought of that you've seen that you're
• 1:34:49
  like, man, you know, I'm a little surprised we do XY and Z
• 1:34:53
  now that I know the law, you know, in the back of your head.
• 1:34:56
  Interesting, Interesting. I mean nothing.
• 1:35:00
  Nothing legal. That's, you know, exclusive to
• 1:35:03
  track and field really comes to mind.
• 1:35:05
  I do think that sometimes we have meats that are really far
• 1:35:07
  away. That's really hard on the kids.
• 1:35:10
  Sometimes I wonder if we really are putting the needs of the
• 1:35:14
  kids first. Sometimes when we do some of
• 1:35:16
  these meats go far away on a school day or on a school night,
• 1:35:21
  you know, are we really thinking about the kids or are we really
• 1:35:23
  concerned with sort of the integrity of the meat, which I
• 1:35:28
  completely understand. I'm all for standards and
• 1:35:31
  standardization and you know, if we have, if Division One has a
• 1:35:35
  meet, Division 2 has to have a, you know, its own thing and
• 1:35:38
  stuff like that. But I'm always concerned and
• 1:35:40
  especially in high school sports, that sometimes we, the
• 1:35:43
  coaches or the administrators sort of make it about us, which
• 1:35:48
  is easy to do because when you, when you're the, you know, the
• 1:35:50
  kids are here for four years Max.
• 1:35:52
  So after four years, you're the, like I said, I'm the fossil on
• 1:35:55
  the track team. After eight years, I'm the I'm
• 1:35:59
  sort of the face of the program, but it shouldn't be me.
• 1:36:01
  It should be, it should be a kid, but I'm I'm sort of have
• 1:36:03
  the staying power. I think another thing for track
• 1:36:08
  is I think we should, this is sort of tangent, but you know, I
• 1:36:12
  think we should ask ourselves why so many coaches look like
• 1:36:15
  you and me, Mike, when the sport is uniquely coeducational,
• 1:36:21
  uniquely men and women competing, but also has been
• 1:36:26
  driven by so many pioneers in the sport both on and off the
• 1:36:30
  track, where people of color or black people who identify as as.
• 1:36:35
  Yep. Whatever they identify as.
• 1:36:38
  And I'm, I'm not sure we're doing a great job And I, I think
• 1:36:42
  there are ways that we can address it, but it's, it's hard
• 1:36:45
  because it is a bit, I don't know if you felt this way, Mike,
• 1:36:48
  because you've seen all over different States and you've
• 1:36:50
  talked with all these coaches. I have great respect for the
• 1:36:53
  Mass State Tract Coaches Association.
• 1:36:55
  I love the meats they put on. I love the passion.
• 1:36:59
  But it is the, it's the same guys.
• 1:37:01
  And I use the term guys because it's largely men.
• 1:37:03
  We do have a, a woman president who has been very outward about
• 1:37:07
  that, that being an awkward feeling there.
• 1:37:12
  It's a lot of the same guys who have been doing it for decades.
• 1:37:15
  And there's a lot to be said for that and that that determination
• 1:37:19
  and that consistency. It's so good for the kids to
• 1:37:21
  have a coach for, for many, many years.
• 1:37:24
  For me to be able to look back at Coach Tenney and Coach Bush
• 1:37:27
  still over at Swampscott, actually, it makes my memories
• 1:37:31
  even sweeter. But what are we doing to make
• 1:37:35
  sure that, you know, these new coaches who are coming in are
• 1:37:38
  able to be, to have a seat at the table because perhaps they
• 1:37:41
  have perspectives about things going on, on and off the track.
• 1:37:45
  Yeah, that are really important and and may may not be coming to
• 1:37:50
  the table. Yeah, I think I agree with you
• 1:37:55
  100%. You know, one of the things as
• 1:37:58
  the guy who schedules the guest here, you know, I work very hard
• 1:38:02
  to get past my bias in regards to I'm a white male.
• 1:38:05
  So I, I don't know if I want to say naturally, but I in my head
• 1:38:10
  when I see and talk to coaches, I see a lot of white males
• 1:38:13
  because they are out there. You know, I, I've said this
• 1:38:15
  before, you know, our sport in very blanket terms here.
• 1:38:18
  When I look at the athletes, we're 50% male, 50% female, but
• 1:38:23
  our coaches aren't 50% male, 50% female.
• 1:38:27
  And again, big blanket statement here, because I'm going to leave
• 1:38:29
  out a lot of different races and that this is ethnicities here.
• 1:38:33
  But I look at our athletes and I'd say roughly and again, I
• 1:38:36
  don't know the exact terms, but 50% white, 50% black.
• 1:38:38
  Again, big blanket statement here.
• 1:38:40
  I know we have a Spanish, Asian, etcetera, right?
• 1:38:43
  But I look at our coaches, I don't see 50% white.
• 1:38:48
  I see a vast majority of white males out there.
• 1:38:51
  So I try very hard. You not keep a list of, you
• 1:38:55
  know, potential future guests and things like that.
• 1:38:57
  And I, you know, I remember when I first put together that list,
• 1:39:00
  I was like white guy, white guy, white guy, white guy.
• 1:39:02
  And I was like, what am I doing? Like, if I'm, if I'm going to be
• 1:39:05
  part of a solution, well, then I better be part of the solution.
• 1:39:10
  And so I better showcase people of color, women that are in our
• 1:39:15
  profession and not just the I'm gonna call them big timers.
• 1:39:21
  So power fives and things like that.
• 1:39:23
  And those are great. Those are amazing people love
• 1:39:25
  them. But that every day that a high
• 1:39:28
  school teacher can be a black male or an Asian female or
• 1:39:32
  whatever like that, that that can be, that is part of the
• 1:39:34
  equation. It should be more of the
• 1:39:35
  equation. But yeah, I don't, you know, I,
• 1:39:38
  I don't know the solution except for just to keep trying to be
• 1:39:41
  part of the solution to keep, you know, honestly, you know
• 1:39:44
  what it might come back to. I I think this is important.
• 1:39:47
  This is something I was thinking about when you told this story
• 1:39:51
  because it reminds me of back to Willie Banks.
• 1:39:54
  You know, Willie Banks, world record holder, former world
• 1:39:57
  record holder, triple jump. I was very honored to have him
• 1:40:00
  on the podcast way back in the, I think he's episode 60-70,
• 1:40:04
  something like that. You had mentioned earlier that
• 1:40:08
  you'd want to meet the high jump.
• 1:40:10
  You'd won the the high jump at 5-6.
• 1:40:13
  And your teammate and other coaches have come up to you and
• 1:40:15
  said, man, good job, you're going to be good at this.
• 1:40:19
  And when you're telling a story, I kind of, you know, my job as
• 1:40:22
  the host is to kind of like connect stories and connect, you
• 1:40:26
  know, things in our society and track society, track coaching
• 1:40:28
  society. And so I started thinking I was
• 1:40:30
  like, what is the difference between having a bunch of dual
• 1:40:35
  meets so that a kid can win the high jump at 5-6 versus only
• 1:40:40
  having invitationals where that kid who jumps 5-6 will never win
• 1:40:45
  at 5-6. Now they make become six, six
• 1:40:47
  and seven foot whatever. Yeah.
• 1:40:50
  What is the difference between that and giving out an eighth
• 1:40:53
  place trophy? Interesting.
• 1:40:56
  And because, you know, it's easy and common, I can go on Twitter
• 1:41:00
  right now and search 8th place trophy and tons of anti 8th
• 1:41:05
  place trophy tweets would come out right.
• 1:41:07
  And first of all, whenever people say that, I always go,
• 1:41:10
  you know, typically talking adults, I'm like, well, you're
• 1:41:12
  the adult, you're the one who gives the 8th place trophy.
• 1:41:14
  It's your fault. Like, what are you?
• 1:41:15
  What are you railing on? You're the one who started this
• 1:41:17
  crap, you know, but here's why I, I used to be on the anti 8th
• 1:41:21
  place trophy bandwagon. And then then I had Willie Banks
• 1:41:24
  on the podcast and Willie who, you know, went on to the
• 1:41:29
  Olympics and invented the clap that we use at every track meet
• 1:41:34
  and stuff. And he tells a story.
• 1:41:37
  I'm sure you know my memory. This is 200 episodes ago.
• 1:41:42
  But he goes to attract me. He's young.
• 1:41:45
  I can't remember if he's middle school or freshman, but he's
• 1:41:47
  young. And I think it's the triple
• 1:41:49
  jump, triple jump or long jump. And he gets like 8th place or
• 1:41:52
  something like that and he gets a ribbon.
• 1:41:56
  And I thought he was going to start telling an anti 8th place.
• 1:41:58
  Trophy. Yeah, right, right.
• 1:41:59
  But he goes Mike, he goes, I had never been told and I'm
• 1:42:03
  paraphrasing so someone, and I hope you do go back and listen
• 1:42:06
  to this, that episode really big.
• 1:42:07
  So it was amazing. It was awesome.
• 1:42:09
  But forgive me where I'm paraphrasing.
• 1:42:11
  I'm getting the gist of the story here, correct.
• 1:42:14
  He goes, Mike, he goes, no one had ever told me that I was good
• 1:42:17
  at anything because and I get this ribbon, the first thing I'd
• 1:42:22
  ever won or anybody told me I was good at something and I was
• 1:42:25
  like, oh, wow, I can be good at something.
• 1:42:29
  He goes and then I started working to become the best long
• 1:42:32
  jumper, triple jumper, whatever you that that wasn't obviously
• 1:42:35
  comes up goes on to become the one of the best triple jumpers
• 1:42:37
  ever and I and I it it turned me on 8th place trophies and.
• 1:42:42
  Wow, yeah. What, what, what your teammate
• 1:42:44
  said to you was an eighth place trophy in in the regards of
• 1:42:47
  Willie Banks. It was a hey, it was validation.
• 1:42:50
  Hey, you're going to be good at this.
• 1:42:52
  An eighth place ribbon for some kids is a validation of, hey,
• 1:42:57
  you've got some talent. You could be good here and it
• 1:43:01
  just made me think I don't know where I'm going.
• 1:43:03
  So sorry, but it just made me think about like earlier in that
• 1:43:06
  story of that and it's like, oh, validation is important.
• 1:43:09
  You just totally. I think I got on this little
• 1:43:11
  ramp because you just told the story about validation and it
• 1:43:13
  made me think about that 5-6 and your teammate and then maybe
• 1:43:16
  connected back to Willie Banks and stuff.
• 1:43:18
  But that validation of of an athlete or coach or lawyer, it's
• 1:43:24
  extremely important. I think that's where coaches
• 1:43:27
  that's like you're one of the biggest things you can do.
• 1:43:30
  It's it's better than if you're the best hurdles coach in in
• 1:43:33
  your state, it's better than if you have the best organization,
• 1:43:38
  the best recruiter. So you have more kids on your
• 1:43:39
  team, so you're good. I think your ability to validate
• 1:43:43
  young kids today is probably the number one thing that makes
• 1:43:50
  society move forward in a positive manner.
• 1:43:54
  That's exactly what that's exactly why I do what I do.
• 1:43:56
  I know it's, it's why you know, you do what you do and you take
• 1:43:59
  such an interest in track coaches.
• 1:44:01
  If I have, I have, if I have time for a brief story, Coach
• 1:44:04
  Bartlett, who I referenced earlier, he was the cross
• 1:44:08
  country coach and then the boys track coach.
• 1:44:10
  He he said you matter to the whole team.
• 1:44:13
  You matter. That was his calling card.
• 1:44:15
  And as someone who wasn't top seven in cross country, but was
• 1:44:19
  scoring in my individual event in track, I've taken you, Matt.
• 1:44:23
  I say it to the kids all the time.
• 1:44:25
  And I think that's why I mean, in, in the 8 years I've been
• 1:44:28
  here, we had 40 kids my first year.
• 1:44:29
  Last year we had 110 or something like that.
• 1:44:32
  And the school did not increase threefold.
• 1:44:35
  And what's that? I, I mean, I love that that you
• 1:44:38
  matter. I love that.
• 1:44:40
  You know, again, it's not and it's not everyone gets a trophy.
• 1:44:44
  It's not, but it is. Everyone has something to
• 1:44:46
  contribute here. Everyone's contributions are
• 1:44:48
  valid. And if you keep, you know, the,
• 1:44:50
  the combination of you matter and the concept of the PR,
• 1:44:53
  that's what I love. I don't care if you come in
• 1:44:55
  first. You improved your 300 by .8.
• 1:45:00
  You had a huge meet today. Yeah, you know.
• 1:45:03
  And so those two together I think is also part of the reason
• 1:45:05
  why I don't think I could coach any other sport.
• 1:45:09
  Yeah. Because I, I don't.
• 1:45:11
  And there are coaches who are much better than I who are able
• 1:45:14
  to, to do it in, in football or hockey or basketball or track.
• 1:45:18
  I'm sure there are coaches better than I am at, at bringing
• 1:45:22
  that forward in track. But those are sort of my calling
• 1:45:24
  cards. And for you to say that, you
• 1:45:27
  know, that's what brings forward all of society.
• 1:45:29
  And I, I couldn't agree more. Yeah.
• 1:45:31
  And that's why I'm in the game. That's.
• 1:45:33
  He drew me back to what it was, where, where, why I won on that
• 1:45:36
  rant. It's validation of having an
• 1:45:38
  African American woman on this podcast or having a Asian man on
• 1:45:42
  this podcast. It, you know, sometimes we have
• 1:45:45
  to, it's hard for us to believe we can become it if we don't see
• 1:45:48
  it. And so if we can have, you know,
• 1:45:52
  black female on here and other black female athletes see that.
• 1:45:55
  And like, man, I never even didn't even think about that.
• 1:45:58
  I've never, I think it was Karen Smith, now retired head coach of
• 1:46:02
  the Ohio State University, who said, you know, I had a black
• 1:46:05
  female coach grown-ups and I was like, Oh yeah.
• 1:46:07
  So she was like easily I could become a track coach because I
• 1:46:09
  had that right in front of me. And it's like, yeah, the
• 1:46:11
  majority of athletes say they don't have that in front of
• 1:46:14
  them. So they how do they even can't
• 1:46:16
  even envision themselves to do that?
• 1:46:18
  So I think, you know, knowing that we're having a conversation
• 1:46:20
  about race in female male coaches between 2 white guys
• 1:46:25
  here. But I think, you know, here's
• 1:46:28
  how I have thought about it and will continue to go about it as
• 1:46:33
  much. Again, I'll make bumps in the
• 1:46:35
  road I'm sure is OK. Well, if I'm intentional to
• 1:46:39
  validate minority coaches, whether that's by race or by
• 1:46:44
  sex, then I'm doing a good job. Then I'm I'm helping, I'm moving
• 1:46:48
  forward. It's a nudge.
• 1:46:49
  It's a nudge. I'm not hiring coaches.
• 1:46:50
  I can't help with that aspect. I'm not educating coaches
• 1:46:54
  anymore. I used to do level ones, but not
• 1:46:56
  doing that anymore. But I can encourage coaches.
• 1:46:58
  I can encourage people who want to get into coaching that are
• 1:47:01
  minorities of like, hey, yeah, it's important.
• 1:47:03
  It matters. And not only does it matter to
• 1:47:05
  you, Mr. and Missus 2425 year old, however old you might be,
• 1:47:11
  it maybe matters more to that 16 year old kid that doesn't see in
• 1:47:15
  front of them and needs to see in front.
• 1:47:17
  Doesn't. You don't need to be a great
• 1:47:18
  coach. Be awesome if you are.
• 1:47:20
  You don't need to know all the XS and OS, but you need to show
• 1:47:23
  up for a kid and I love that you matter that that is really
• 1:47:26
  important in society out there for sure.
• 1:47:29
  I love that. Definitely.
• 1:47:32
  That's a great place to stop, man.
• 1:47:34
  Dude this was so much fun. Thank you so much.
• 1:47:37
  You said they say it flies by. That flew back.
• 1:47:39
  I couldn't believe. It what do we?
• 1:47:41
  I don't keep a timer anymore, but I don't know, hour and a
• 1:47:44
  half, probably. Hour and 40.
• 1:47:45
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the fun thing is, you know,
• 1:47:48
  we put a time limit on ourselves because, you know, I got a job.
• 1:47:50
  You got a job, things like that. You got to go read something,
• 1:47:53
  I'm sure. But we could go for a long time
• 1:47:56
  during COVID. Our longest episodes were during
• 1:47:58
  COVID when no one was working right.
• 1:48:00
  We got some three hour, 4 hour bangers out there so.
• 1:48:03
  They're great. I really do love.
• 1:48:04
  This. Oh, good.
• 1:48:05
  Good, yeah. Love the work you do.
• 1:48:06
  Thanks for what you do, Mike. It matters.
• 1:48:08
  You matter. It matters.
• 1:48:10
  I appreciate that. Yeah, I always say, you know, I
• 1:48:14
  told you this during our pre interview.
• 1:48:17
  I I really enjoy the ones where I don't know anybody or I don't
• 1:48:20
  know the person because this was just fast.
• 1:48:21
  I never would have been able to see, you know, this lawyer angle
• 1:48:24
  and and, you know, selfishly, a lot of, and sometimes the
• 1:48:27
  questions I ask are just because I'm just curious.
• 1:48:29
  And so like the whole like, no one right now is going to rewind
• 1:48:32
  and go over the bar exams talking about right.
• 1:48:35
  But I'm like, Oh, I know a little bit more about the bar
• 1:48:37
  exam now. So when that pops up in
• 1:48:38
  conversation, I'll be like, Hey, you know, I read this dude and
• 1:48:41
  he was this and that. And you know, I just love that
• 1:48:43
  man. I'm just always so curious and I
• 1:48:45
  think, you know, good coaches out there, they stay curious as
• 1:48:49
  well. And so I'm just fascinated, man.
• 1:48:51
  Your story is amazing and it really is.
• 1:48:53
  You know, I can't remember if it was on recording or before, but
• 1:48:57
  you said something about, well, you know, I haven't been
• 1:48:59
  coaching very long, so I'm not sure I have much to offer.
• 1:49:02
  And I told you that's not true. And it was validated by this,
• 1:49:07
  this conversation, man. So to use the term from your
• 1:49:11
  coaches, you matter, my friend. And I'm so, so thankful that
• 1:49:15
  you'd sit down with us today. Thank you.
• 1:49:17
  Likewise, thank you so much for having me.
• 1:49:19
  This is terrific. Awesome man.
• 1:49:20
  Well, again, appreciate it. You know, I did not know.
• 1:49:23
  I, I wonder sometimes because this happened when we used to do
• 1:49:25
  the kill Guild coach of the year award way back in the day, a
• 1:49:28
  coach 1. I don't even know who it was.
• 1:49:30
  And I, I caught a message board and I'm sure that's your first
• 1:49:33
  red flag of the story because I, I'm going to quote a message
• 1:49:37
  board, but they're like, oh, that coach sucks.
• 1:49:39
  They must buy a lot of Gill equipment.
• 1:49:41
  And I was like, honestly, I have no clue how much they don't.
• 1:49:44
  So I didn't know how much you did or did not, but I appreciate
• 1:49:46
  hearing that. Word yeah me and Lisa have been
• 1:49:48
  emailing all week like my tent legs got lost.
• 1:49:52
  In the yeah, the tents, yeah, yeah.
• 1:49:54
  But we're, yeah, we love it. He.
• 1:49:57
  Mentions Lisa at MF Athletics, one of our great partners.
• 1:50:00
  Love them to death and love Lisa to death.
• 1:50:02
  We worked together at the Nike Outdoor Nationals last year.
• 1:50:05
  I think we're going to be doing it again this year.
• 1:50:06
  So I love hearing that. So we're really grateful for
• 1:50:09
  that. That obviously keeps the keeps
• 1:50:10
  the doors up, keeps the microphones plugged in.
• 1:50:13
  So we we, we are grateful for that.
• 1:50:15
  Of course, Tristan, thank you, man.
• 1:50:16
  I appreciate your time. That's the most valuable thing
• 1:50:18
  you can give me. I know you're busy, you know,
• 1:50:20
  lawyering and coaching and that's coaching is enough.
• 1:50:23
  You're busy enough with that. So really, really am grateful
• 1:50:25
  for that and grateful for you guys and gals out there
• 1:50:28
  listening. Hey, you know, it's something
• 1:50:30
  that I want to continue to explore and that's having some
• 1:50:33
  of these, I don't know, maybe this is the right term or not
• 1:50:37
  these difficult conversations. You know, we need to continue to
• 1:50:39
  move. I love the sport, I love the
• 1:50:42
  kids, but I'm in love with coaches.
• 1:50:44
  So I'm always how do I move forward?
• 1:50:46
  What am I doing to help move forward the profession of
• 1:50:49
  coaching track and field. And so I think having these
• 1:50:52
  discussions are important. You know, we we all have
• 1:50:54
  different views of it. And so I love Tristan's view of
• 1:50:57
  things. I love my view and I continue
• 1:51:00
  when I continue to pursue that and push that.
• 1:51:01
  And so, you know, if you have ideas around that, tweet me.
• 1:51:05
  I just want to make sure that we're doing again, moving the
• 1:51:07
  professional track and field forward.
• 1:51:10
  And that's that's that's important to me.
• 1:51:11
  It's a passion of mine central to to who I am, my identity, if
• 1:51:16
  you will. So thanks again for being here.
• 1:51:17
  Join us next week. We'll do it all over again and
• 1:51:19
  do it all over again and have some fun.
• 1:51:21
  Thanks guys. Appreciate it.
• 1:51:24
  The goals to appreciate the coach the ones that pour people
• 1:51:27
  most every season needs a voice of reason speaking the growth
• 1:51:31
  you got to prep before you carry the load ice coffee to the soul.
• 1:51:34
  For those of us stay on the go proper handoff to stay in the
• 1:51:37
  zone which you packing for the road.
• 1:51:39
  There's more than one way to go taking those SP and you're told
• 1:51:43
  it ain't practice if your purpose ain't Claire it can't
• 1:51:45
  happen until you listen with both is you can't mentor without
• 1:51:48
  a mentor of experience. You can reinvent those years.
• 1:51:52
  Every plan's got to stand and deliver to the price sacrifice.
• 1:51:55
  Can you give up you. It's a choice and a fight, not a
• 1:51:58
  win or lose. It's not a ploy boy device.
• 1:52:00
  Y'all can make more moves. It's not about how to, it's all
• 1:52:03
  about why you don't know till you know who you are inside
• 1:52:07
  6,000,000. Waste of time, choose none.
• 1:52:09
  So y'all cross finish line. The work ain't done so we learn
• 1:52:12
  from the experts but y'all got to put in the network.
• 1:52:15
  Your athletics is the network. It's all about connections put
• 1:52:18
  together for the profession to where every track coach could be
• 1:52:21
  blessing.