Latest / Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond / Jerry Cantrell

Transcript

Jerry Cantrell · Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond

0:15
Speaker 1: Pushkin.
0:20
Speaker 2: Jerry Cantrell has been the lead guitarist and songwriter for
0:23
Speaker 2: Alison Chane since the band formed in nineteen eighty seven.
0:26
Speaker 2: By the mid nineties, after a run of multi platinum albums,
0:29
Speaker 2: Alice secured their spot as one of Seattle's Big four
0:33
Speaker 2: grunge bands, along with Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, and Nirvana. Legend
0:37
Speaker 2: has it that the band's early whirlwind of commercial success
0:40
Speaker 2: wreaked havoc on the personal and professional lives of the band.
0:43
Speaker 2: In two thousand and two, lead singer Lane stay overdosed
0:46
Speaker 2: and died after more than a decade of battling drug addiction.
0:50
Speaker 2: Admits the turmoil, Jerry Cantrell found solace in continuing to
0:53
Speaker 2: write and release music, both as a solo artist and
0:55
Speaker 2: as a member in Alison Shane's He's Never Stopped Playing.
0:59
Speaker 2: In twenty twenty one, he released his critically acclaimed solo
1:02
Speaker 2: album Brighton, followed by last year's hard rock opus I
1:05
Speaker 2: Want Blood. On today's episode, Lea Rose talks to Jerry
1:08
Speaker 2: cant about how he's drawn to the art that exists
1:11
Speaker 2: in the Shadows. He also talks about how getting sober
1:14
Speaker 2: over twenty years ago, as influenced to songwriting, and he
1:17
Speaker 2: remembers the time he tried to pass the demo tape
1:19
Speaker 2: to Axel Rose, only to see a security guard throw
1:22
Speaker 2: it in the trash. This is broken record Liner notes
1:28
Speaker 2: for the digital Age. I'm justin Ritchman.
1:35
Speaker 3: I wanted to ask you a couple questions about the
1:39
Speaker 3: new album I Want Blood. Yeah, it's your fourth full
1:43
Speaker 3: length album, released back in October. I was curious, now
1:47
Speaker 3: that the album is out and you've had a chance
1:50
Speaker 3: to sort of like hear what people are saying about it,
1:53
Speaker 3: is there anything that you've heard that surprised you, Like
1:56
Speaker 3: anything people are picking up on or noticing.
1:59
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm really I'm really digging that people are
2:02
Speaker 1: connecting with it.
2:03
Speaker 3: You know.
2:03
Speaker 1: That's that's always the It's always the first goal. You know,
2:07
Speaker 1: you start off every every song or you know, or
2:11
Speaker 1: a collection of songs or album, you're trying to kind
2:14
Speaker 1: of satisfy an audience of one or or or five
2:18
Speaker 1: the group of you, you know what I mean. So
2:20
Speaker 1: it's really trying to make something that you guys are
2:22
Speaker 1: excited about or I'm excited about. And uh, and so
2:26
Speaker 1: that that box obviously obviously gets checked with its decision
2:29
Speaker 1: to release because I wouldn't put something out that I
2:32
Speaker 1: didn't think was good. Yes, so that the box for
2:36
Speaker 1: me is checked. I was really I'm really satisfied with
2:39
Speaker 1: and really excited about the songs and the energy, the performances,
2:44
Speaker 1: the people that I got to create this music with.
2:46
Speaker 1: And the thing that I guess I'm grateful for is
2:48
Speaker 1: that people seem to feel like there's a see that
2:51
Speaker 1: there's a lot of challenge to this the writing and
2:54
Speaker 1: execution of the album, and and that makes me feel
2:57
Speaker 1: good because I certainly felt like my face was pressed
3:00
Speaker 1: against the ceiling of my abilities on all levels of
3:04
Speaker 1: this album, you know, singing, writing, producing, you know, And
3:08
Speaker 1: that's a good play us to be. You want to
3:10
Speaker 1: be in a slightly uncomfortable, like hey, WHOA can I
3:13
Speaker 1: pull this off? Kind of headspace because you you were
3:17
Speaker 1: allowing yourself to grab stuff that you didn't know was attainable,
3:21
Speaker 1: or reach a branch that you might not even be
3:24
Speaker 1: be reaching for, you know what I mean, But like
3:26
Speaker 1: you just feel like you're flailing about and some and
3:28
Speaker 1: that's where you find some really cool stuff, you know,
3:30
Speaker 1: instead of trying to be safe. And I've I've never
3:32
Speaker 1: really gone about making music with that mindset. I'm not
3:36
Speaker 1: trying to recreate old tunes or old records or or
3:40
Speaker 1: rep myself. I'm trying to make something new that I
3:44
Speaker 1: that I haven't made before, you know, and you can
3:46
Speaker 1: always count on you can always count on sounding like yourself.
3:49
Speaker 1: I can't really do anything else. And so that's that's
3:52
Speaker 1: a that's a bonus, you know, to be able to
3:55
Speaker 1: have that sort of a thing that's identifiable, I guess,
3:58
Speaker 1: and that breeds you up to go where, but the
4:00
Speaker 1: hell of music wants to take it. So it's uh,
4:03
Speaker 1: it's as much a surprise to me every time I
4:06
Speaker 1: end a project and put it out, because I had
4:08
Speaker 1: no idea or intention of what it was going to
4:11
Speaker 1: be before I started.
4:12
Speaker 4: Do you ever give yourself props?
4:14
Speaker 3: Like if you do get to a place where you're
4:17
Speaker 3: pushing yourself creatively emotionally, do you take time to sort
4:21
Speaker 3: of like congratulate yourself or you always sort of just
4:24
Speaker 3: like have like this self critical voice in your head.
4:29
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I mean after I'm done working on a record,
4:32
Speaker 1: I don't listen to it a whole lot. But since
4:35
Speaker 1: starting up a new tour here in about a week,
4:37
Speaker 1: I'm going through all the materials, so I've been revisiting it,
4:40
Speaker 1: or you'll run into people and they'll kind of talk
4:43
Speaker 1: to you about I don't know, maybe the impact that
4:45
Speaker 1: it's having on them. That's something that they really dig
4:48
Speaker 1: and so then then then you're brought back to that
4:50
Speaker 1: that mind frame and that discussion, and that always feels good,
4:54
Speaker 1: you know, like, yeah, made a good record, that that's
4:57
Speaker 1: what you're trying to do, and and it's fun revisiting it.
5:01
Speaker 1: It still holds up. I'm not sick of it yet,
5:03
Speaker 1: so that's always a good sign too.
5:06
Speaker 3: Has getting feedback from people from fans about the way
5:09
Speaker 3: that certain songs have impacted them. Does that change the
5:13
Speaker 3: way you talk to musicians about songs of theirs that
5:17
Speaker 3: you love.
5:18
Speaker 1: You know, it's really personal what what an artist's music
5:22
Speaker 1: means to me. You know, I'm sure there's gonna be
5:24
Speaker 1: a lot of shared stuff what it means to them too,
5:27
Speaker 1: But it's also going to be pretty personal to them.
5:30
Speaker 1: And I might not know all the details, nor do
5:32
Speaker 1: I need to know all the details. I just need
5:34
Speaker 1: to know that it means something to me and the
5:36
Speaker 1: particular story or slant that I took it ass you know,
5:39
Speaker 1: and you know the few conversations I've had with with
5:42
Speaker 1: writers about particular songs, And you know, I'll be hanging
5:45
Speaker 1: with you know, Billy Gibbons or something a couple of
5:48
Speaker 1: weeks ago, and I'll ask them about mechanic, you know,
5:50
Speaker 1: like what the hell are you is on here? And
5:52
Speaker 1: blah blah blah, and it sounds like a piano but
5:54
Speaker 1: it's a guitar. And like, you know, I'll be wrong
5:57
Speaker 1: a lot of the times, you know what I mean.
5:58
Speaker 1: So like it's always it's always surprising to get somebody's
6:01
Speaker 1: personal take on it. At the flip side of that coin,
6:05
Speaker 1: it's also cool leaving the mystery there and leaving some
6:08
Speaker 1: space for for the creation of your own story to it,
6:11
Speaker 1: to connect to a piece of music or art or
6:14
Speaker 1: film or whatever it is. You know, a play, a book.
6:17
Speaker 3: You know, I know that you and Duff mccagan are
6:21
Speaker 3: good friends. You guys play music a lot together. You
6:24
Speaker 3: guys hang out watch football the first time. Like when
6:28
Speaker 3: you first started hanging out with Duff, what did you
6:31
Speaker 3: ask him about Guns N' Roses?
6:34
Speaker 1: Uh? Boy? I think I probably told him, Like when
6:39
Speaker 1: I when I finally connected with this band, I mean
6:43
Speaker 1: I was aware of the band, and a lot of
6:45
Speaker 1: my favorite bands I don't like instantly, you know, yeah,
6:49
Speaker 1: and so because they were so huge and blowing up.
6:52
Speaker 1: I mean, I like, I like rock and roll, and
6:54
Speaker 1: they had roots of all the stuff I love, Aerosmith
6:56
Speaker 1: and you know, good funky R and B fucking nasty
7:00
Speaker 1: rock and roll and uh so, you know, overtly, I
7:03
Speaker 1: liked it and it was blowing up, but I didn't
7:05
Speaker 1: connect with the record. And I think I listened to
7:07
Speaker 1: it for about a week, and I don't know I
7:09
Speaker 1: was I think I told him a story. I was
7:11
Speaker 1: living in an apartment downtown behind the Seattle Center, and
7:15
Speaker 1: I still hadn't connected to the record. So I decided
7:17
Speaker 1: to drop acid and listen to the whole thing one
7:20
Speaker 1: more time. And I decided on that trip, and I
7:23
Speaker 1: listened to the record of I still didn't like it.
7:25
Speaker 1: I was going to throw it out the window. And
7:26
Speaker 1: by the time, by the time Rocket Queen came on
7:29
Speaker 1: that base, the drums in the bass got me. That's
7:32
Speaker 1: when it all came into focus. And I was just
7:34
Speaker 1: coming on to an acid trip. And I think I
7:37
Speaker 1: told him that story that was it was a good one,
7:40
Speaker 1: and I got it the doors of perception when we're open. Yes,
7:46
Speaker 1: and I connected because the thing that got me was
7:48
Speaker 1: his base ref Yeah totally. You know.
7:52
Speaker 4: Oh that's super cool.
7:53
Speaker 3: Wasn't there a story that you were at like a
7:55
Speaker 3: gun show and you gave a demo to Axel?
7:59
Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah? Uh. Like all young artists, you know, sometimes
8:03
Speaker 1: you run onto somebody that's one of your heroes and
8:05
Speaker 1: you pass them on your demo tape or whatever. Yeah.
8:08
Speaker 1: I was actually like, I say, I live right behind
8:11
Speaker 1: the Seattle Center and that's where they were playing. So yeah,
8:14
Speaker 1: I handed it to his security guard and his security
8:16
Speaker 1: guard threw it away as they were walking. So it
8:20
Speaker 1: was an Axles fault. Now. I told Axel that story too,
8:23
Speaker 1: and we laughed about that as well.
8:24
Speaker 4: So well, at least it wasn't him, It was a security.
8:27
Speaker 1: Guard that was a security guard. Yeah.
8:30
Speaker 3: I was having this debate with someone who I work
8:32
Speaker 3: on this show with, and I wonder what, I'm just
8:35
Speaker 3: curious what your answer would be, who do you think
8:39
Speaker 3: is the best American rock band?
8:42
Speaker 1: Oh? Man, I'm all I'm still bad with best.
8:46
Speaker 4: Yeah, I know, I know me too.
8:48
Speaker 1: It's an impossible statement, you know what I mean? You
8:51
Speaker 1: want to be one of the best, you know, and
8:54
Speaker 1: there's so many American American rock bands, just America. Yeah,
8:57
Speaker 1: so you can throw out a couple.
8:58
Speaker 4: I'm just curious where your brain goes.
9:01
Speaker 1: Oh, I don't know. I mean, like, you know, Aerosmith's
9:03
Speaker 1: got to be up there, pretty close to top of
9:06
Speaker 1: the list, you know, GNR, Metallica, those are pretty good ones. Yeah, okay, yeah,
9:11
Speaker 1: that's good. We were saying.
9:12
Speaker 4: Also, he brought up Grateful Dead and the Beach Boys.
9:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd go with the Beats. I you know, I
9:19
Speaker 1: appreciate the Dead, and I'm sure you've had this experience.
9:23
Speaker 1: There's dead Heads, and then there's people that don't get
9:25
Speaker 1: the Dead, and none one of the Beats never got
9:27
Speaker 1: the Dead. I appreciate them as musicians and I respect
9:31
Speaker 1: full respect for the connection they have with their fans,
9:34
Speaker 1: but it just never really spoke to me. Beast Boys, Yeah,
9:37
Speaker 1: for sure. You know, Beast Boys were early Beast Boys
9:40
Speaker 1: is badass. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.
9:43
Speaker 4: Okay.
9:44
Speaker 3: Let me ask about a couple of the songs on
9:48
Speaker 3: the new album.
9:49
Speaker 4: The opening track Vilified.
9:51
Speaker 3: Can you just tell me the story about how that
9:54
Speaker 3: came together and especially that I love the like little
9:57
Speaker 3: the hey, yeah, the repeating bit. It's so catching and
10:01
Speaker 3: it's so good and it's sort of like reminiscent of
10:04
Speaker 3: some old Alice songs. I thought, so tell me about
10:08
Speaker 3: writing and arrange that one.
10:10
Speaker 1: Well, the music is, it's a it's a really bizarre
10:13
Speaker 1: piece of music. And it's in like six and seven
10:16
Speaker 1: and I think maybe maybe there goes a section that
10:19
Speaker 1: goes to eight too, So it's weird time signatures. It's
10:23
Speaker 1: just four and a half half minutes of fury. You know,
10:25
Speaker 1: once it once it starts, it does not stop. And
10:28
Speaker 1: I remember coming up with it in two sections, both
10:32
Speaker 1: at a sound check once when I was on tour
10:34
Speaker 1: with on the Brighton tour, you know, was I was
10:37
Speaker 1: messing around with with the riff and we were the
10:40
Speaker 1: band kind of jumped in with me and kind of
10:42
Speaker 1: played it. And then and then on another sound check
10:44
Speaker 1: with Alice or a rehearsal room or something, I brought
10:48
Speaker 1: that up and I was like that that's a good
10:50
Speaker 1: one to file for file future use, and it ended up,
10:53
Speaker 1: you know, working out that it ended up on being
10:55
Speaker 1: on that record. But it's it's just weird, but it's
10:58
Speaker 1: also really kind of got a pop element. To it
11:02
Speaker 1: as well. It's just a weird psycho metal pop song. Uh,
11:06
Speaker 1: and it's got a lot of energy. And you know,
11:10
Speaker 1: the last two records I've done Brighton and I Want Blood,
11:12
Speaker 1: two things have happened for me, and I don't know
11:15
Speaker 1: if it's going to continue. But it's odd because I
11:18
Speaker 1: never know what the record is going to be called.
11:20
Speaker 1: And tell way, like when everybody's like, what the hell
11:23
Speaker 1: are you going to call this thing? So it's a
11:24
Speaker 1: last thing that you normally come up with. And on
11:27
Speaker 1: both of these records, I had the title right out
11:29
Speaker 1: the bat, importantly because I had written Vilified and I
11:32
Speaker 1: had also written bright and then I'm like, those are great,
11:35
Speaker 1: you know, and those are great songs. It gives it's
11:37
Speaker 1: a good title for the body of work. It seems
11:39
Speaker 1: to be a good descriptor you know what I mean.
11:42
Speaker 1: So that Villified was a contender, you know, for an
11:44
Speaker 1: album titled. But I guess my point being, I knew
11:48
Speaker 1: what I was going to call them. I knew what
11:50
Speaker 1: the how the albums were going to open, and Vilified
11:53
Speaker 1: was always the open opener and it comes the closer.
11:56
Speaker 1: So I came in almost with eight out of nine
11:59
Speaker 1: songs in the position that they're on. I had them
12:02
Speaker 1: written out in order like how the album was going
12:05
Speaker 1: to go, and it ended up being pretty close in
12:06
Speaker 1: the mark on brighton and I want uh and uh vilified.
12:11
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just, you know, there's I think that
12:14
Speaker 1: we're living in a really interesting time, you know what
12:16
Speaker 1: I mean. And I think that we're I think that
12:19
Speaker 1: everybody's everybody's got an opinion, and is is a rush
12:23
Speaker 1: to share it with everybody and at each other's throats
12:25
Speaker 1: and pointing fingers and and uh, you know, we're dealing
12:28
Speaker 1: with dealing it with a different time, with a new time,
12:31
Speaker 1: with new toys and new technology, and and I don't
12:34
Speaker 1: know that we've necessarily learned how to use all that
12:37
Speaker 1: stuff mainly, Yeah, no, And maybe that song is just
12:42
Speaker 1: kind of like a like pointing out that fact and
12:44
Speaker 1: maybe being a call to you know, be a little
12:46
Speaker 1: cooler with each other, be a little more accepting.
12:49
Speaker 4: And then how did you come up with that the
12:51
Speaker 4: catchy bit?
12:52
Speaker 1: You know? It just it always starts with the music.
12:55
Speaker 1: So generally it always starts with the music. I'll get
12:57
Speaker 1: the music together. So I got those three parts, the
13:00
Speaker 1: main riff and then the and then the the B
13:03
Speaker 1: section with the dead you know, and then the then
13:08
Speaker 1: the slow you know, slow stomp that comes after that.
13:11
Speaker 1: So I'm like, this is a good song. And then
13:13
Speaker 1: you get that together and it can happen really quickly
13:17
Speaker 1: with sections, and while you're listening. I do a lot
13:20
Speaker 1: of listening in my car old school, So yeah, I
13:23
Speaker 1: listen to the demos that we've made or or sometimes
13:26
Speaker 1: write off the battle just pop pop, a good vocal,
13:28
Speaker 1: I'll have a vocal idea that will go through my head,
13:30
Speaker 1: so I'll singing some nonsense, nonsense lyrics to get the
13:34
Speaker 1: melody lined down until it works, you know, and then
13:37
Speaker 1: the next one, what the fuck are you trying to
13:38
Speaker 1: say with that melody? So that's usually that's the very
13:42
Speaker 1: last thing the subject matter.
13:44
Speaker 3: Are you conscious of when you hear a new song, like,
13:46
Speaker 3: not a new song of yours, but somebody else's song, Like,
13:50
Speaker 3: are you conscious of what part of the song you
13:52
Speaker 3: pay attention to most, whether it's the lyrics or the
13:56
Speaker 3: melody or you know, a certain instrument.
14:00
Speaker 1: There's so much freedom in music, you know. I mean basically,
14:03
Speaker 1: if you look, if you're kind of break down songwriting
14:06
Speaker 1: to structure, you know, you're talking about intro, a verse,
14:11
Speaker 1: a bridge, a chorus, and maybe like a middle eight,
14:14
Speaker 1: you know, so that that's the thing. But there's so
14:16
Speaker 1: much ways, so many ways you can play with that
14:19
Speaker 1: and sounds and and and what somebody is trying to
14:21
Speaker 1: get across. And you know, I'm a big fan of film.
14:25
Speaker 1: I still watch tons of movies, and you know, good movies,
14:28
Speaker 1: crappy movies, doesn't matter, like I just like movies, and
14:32
Speaker 1: music is a big part of film and the storytelling
14:34
Speaker 1: of that. So so of course I'm always keyed into
14:38
Speaker 1: the music aspect of telling a story. And that's really
14:41
Speaker 1: what I'm trying to do is make a little mini
14:43
Speaker 1: movie by writing a song, you know, like a little scene.
14:46
Speaker 1: I want to be transported to some place that that
14:49
Speaker 1: I've never been to, or or maybe be reminded of
14:52
Speaker 1: a place that's familiar to me. Like, hey, that's kind
14:55
Speaker 1: of cool, you know, like that brings me back to
14:59
Speaker 1: this thing, and that's fucking cool. I like that, you know,
15:01
Speaker 1: And it's a shared experience. But you know, there's there's
15:04
Speaker 1: only twelve notes and and there's you know, basically, songs
15:07
Speaker 1: are three parts, three or four parts, and you know
15:10
Speaker 1: the math of it is is pretty simple, but but
15:12
Speaker 1: it's so so intricate and unique and the way that
15:16
Speaker 1: ever the lens of everybody, that all of that flows through,
15:19
Speaker 1: those basic elements flow through it. And when somebody's able
15:22
Speaker 1: to put those into like a song that makes you
15:24
Speaker 1: feel and takes you on a ride or makes you
15:26
Speaker 1: want to play it again, like call somebody and go like, man,
15:29
Speaker 1: have you heard this? Man? You know that that that
15:32
Speaker 1: that's cool? Man? You want to be part of that story?
15:35
Speaker 1: And I think that's I think that's what we're all
15:37
Speaker 1: trying to do.
15:38
Speaker 3: Can you remember the last song that you were super
15:41
Speaker 3: moved by that maybe you shared with someone else or
15:43
Speaker 3: you couldn't stop listening to.
15:47
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm in I'm in me mode right now. Yeah,
15:52
Speaker 1: So I haven't really you know, I haven't really listened
15:54
Speaker 1: to a whole lot of stuff. But I was watching
15:58
Speaker 1: I was watching The Accountant last night, and there's like
16:01
Speaker 1: a really cool I Forget the This with Ben Affleck.
16:05
Speaker 1: He's like some like a autistic hit man kind of dude.
16:08
Speaker 1: And oh wow, but there's a song in that soundtrack
16:11
Speaker 1: and I can't remember off the top of my head
16:12
Speaker 1: what it was. And also up in the air I
16:14
Speaker 1: might be in a R bock tune. It's fucking cool
16:18
Speaker 1: as shit. I really like. I like the Black Keys
16:20
Speaker 1: a lot. They're they're really talented. And then watching the
16:23
Speaker 1: Agency and it's it's got that great Jack White song
16:26
Speaker 1: in it too. He's pretty fucking badass as well.
16:29
Speaker 4: Yeah, he is badass.
16:31
Speaker 3: I think I heard you in another interview talking about
16:35
Speaker 3: an album he did where there was like an EP,
16:38
Speaker 3: like hidden in the album.
16:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, inside the grooves of the album another it there's
16:43
Speaker 1: an album groove, and then inside the album of that
16:46
Speaker 1: groove is an EP. That's so cool. I've never heard
16:49
Speaker 1: of anything like that. That's like how that dude's brain works.
16:53
Speaker 4: Yeah.
16:54
Speaker 3: Is there any other genre of music outside of rock
16:56
Speaker 3: that you are fanatic about or that you just know
17:01
Speaker 3: a lot about.
17:02
Speaker 1: I just like good music, man. I don't care about
17:05
Speaker 1: the style, man, I like I like Who's I like
17:07
Speaker 1: R and B, I like even I even like some
17:10
Speaker 1: hip hop, you know, I like soul, o the country,
17:13
Speaker 1: like jazz, like metal, you know. I mean, yeah, I
17:18
Speaker 1: like classical. You know, some classical ship. It's just fucking amazing,
17:22
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, It's still great and what
17:25
Speaker 1: you know it it's it's such a personal music is
17:28
Speaker 1: such a personal thing, like what what connects? I'm not
17:31
Speaker 1: like hunting for stuff. I'm only hunting when I'm trying
17:34
Speaker 1: to make something myself. You know. It's just like the
17:37
Speaker 1: rest of life is just you know, lucky happenstance. When
17:40
Speaker 1: when you turn on the radio, or you see something
17:42
Speaker 1: in a movie, or you or you go to a
17:44
Speaker 1: show and or you're playing a bill at a at
17:47
Speaker 1: a festival and a band comes on and kickshaw that
17:50
Speaker 1: you don't know about, Like holy shit. I mean, that's
17:53
Speaker 1: that's the cool part. Somebody's there's a lot of us
17:56
Speaker 1: out there still doing it, and that gives me a
17:58
Speaker 1: qlope the reason why I do it in the first place.
18:00
Speaker 1: You know, it's not supposed to speak to everybody, but
18:03
Speaker 1: it's it finds its people, you know. I mean, each
18:05
Speaker 1: each band, each each song, each piece of music someone somewhere.
18:10
Speaker 1: It's kind of eternal in a respect, at least longer
18:13
Speaker 1: than a lifetime. I don't know if it's like yes,
18:15
Speaker 1: all time eternal, but once it's out there, it's there
18:18
Speaker 1: for people to find, you know, throughout the generations. And
18:20
Speaker 1: I think that's that's a pretty magical thing, and that
18:24
Speaker 1: aspect has never been lost on me. And so like
18:26
Speaker 1: anytime I hear something that that makes me feel or
18:30
Speaker 1: or like fuck, that's cool man, you know that that's
18:33
Speaker 1: a beautiful thing.
18:35
Speaker 2: We'll be right back with more from Jerry Cantrell. After
18:38
Speaker 2: the break, We're back with more from Jerry Cantrell.
18:46
Speaker 4: Do you have any tricks that help you unlock.
18:50
Speaker 3: You know, if you're having like writer's block, or you
18:52
Speaker 3: don't know where to go with a song, if a
18:54
Speaker 3: part is missing. Do you have any things that you
18:56
Speaker 3: can sort of like trick yourself into coming up with ideas?
19:00
Speaker 1: Uh, well, there's a there's a couple of ways you
19:02
Speaker 1: can go about it. Well, one one is leave it alone,
19:05
Speaker 1: walk away from it, you know, until if you just
19:08
Speaker 1: keep banging your head against it and it ain't happened
19:11
Speaker 1: and you can't fucking force it, you know what I mean.
19:13
Speaker 1: But you still you can take a temps at it
19:16
Speaker 1: now and again when you when you like funk, that's
19:18
Speaker 1: cool man, It's but but if it ain't happening, leave
19:21
Speaker 1: it alone, move on to something else, you know, to
19:26
Speaker 1: go to somebody else, you know, go to go to Sean,
19:29
Speaker 1: go to Duff, go to Tyler go to Big or
19:33
Speaker 1: Max like like, yeah, what do you think about this? Man?
19:35
Speaker 1: I like, I don't have an idea here, like and
19:38
Speaker 1: and and bounce your bounce that off of people that
19:41
Speaker 1: you trusty creative people, and and that can that that
19:46
Speaker 1: that's a good way to to jostle you. If it's
19:48
Speaker 1: not the part, it might be something to challenge you
19:51
Speaker 1: of like I can do better than that, you know
19:53
Speaker 1: what I mean? So whatever, something to shift you off
19:55
Speaker 1: of the dead space if you happen to find yourself
19:58
Speaker 1: on and then the third way is just to keep grinding,
20:02
Speaker 1: Just to keep grinding at it, you know what I mean.
20:05
Speaker 1: Lyrics for me are that that way. I always get
20:08
Speaker 1: block up on that stuff. The longest part of the
20:12
Speaker 1: processes is the lyric writing. A lot of the time
20:15
Speaker 1: on this record, I was blocked on throw me a line.
20:18
Speaker 1: I had a really great opening chapter for the story,
20:22
Speaker 1: and I had it set pretty good, and I had
20:24
Speaker 1: had a good intro, I had a good, good verse
20:28
Speaker 1: written down and in a B section, and then it
20:31
Speaker 1: came to the second version, I got completely blocked and
20:33
Speaker 1: I could I was blocked for a bit, and I
20:36
Speaker 1: went to a went and saw a film by Scorsese
20:40
Speaker 1: Killers of the Flower Moon has nothing to do with
20:43
Speaker 1: the song, but a couple of scenes in that movie
20:47
Speaker 1: knocked me out of something visually, and then I was
20:49
Speaker 1: able to kind of continue the thread with that, kind
20:52
Speaker 1: of like the fire scene in the middle of that
20:54
Speaker 1: movie where they're kind of torching the fields and stuff like, Okay,
20:57
Speaker 1: I got it. So it's you know, go to another artist,
21:00
Speaker 1: you know, go to another artist, go to another medium
21:02
Speaker 1: you know that can that can knock you out of
21:04
Speaker 1: out of your out of your staleness and give you
21:07
Speaker 1: a fresh perspective.
21:08
Speaker 4: You know, do you have to like take a voice
21:10
Speaker 4: note right as you're watching it?
21:11
Speaker 1: So I do I talk it right into my phone,
21:15
Speaker 1: or if I hear something, I sing it, or if
21:17
Speaker 1: I play something, I record it immediately. As one another
21:19
Speaker 1: thing learned about the process, I've lost not a ton,
21:24
Speaker 1: not a ton because I've learned this lesson early on
21:27
Speaker 1: of like I'll remember that and then oh, right, what
21:30
Speaker 1: the tuck was that? You know what I mean? So
21:32
Speaker 1: I've always been a big recorder and a big documentary
21:35
Speaker 1: I call it riff mining, and so I make sure
21:37
Speaker 1: when I find a nugget, to make sure to make
21:39
Speaker 1: a record of it, you know what I mean. Yeah,
21:42
Speaker 1: you can always come back to it and refer to it,
21:45
Speaker 1: you know, and an form that it actually exists, you know,
21:49
Speaker 1: to be able to refer to.
21:50
Speaker 3: So yes, And then historically, how has it been for you?
21:55
Speaker 3: Have you had success writing lyrics or writing music or
21:59
Speaker 3: arranging anything with like drinking or like you know, some
22:04
Speaker 3: people can only write if they smoke some pot or
22:07
Speaker 3: whatever it is, Like, how has that been for you?
22:09
Speaker 1: Well, I've done it both ways, and I've written some
22:12
Speaker 1: really good songs both ways. So I think both both
22:15
Speaker 1: ways work. You know, I've lived through a period of
22:17
Speaker 1: my life where it worked and then it didn't work. Yeah,
22:22
Speaker 1: so I try to try, which relates exactly to what
22:25
Speaker 1: we were just talking about with the block. If something's
22:28
Speaker 1: not working for me or you got to find a
22:30
Speaker 1: new way to do it, so you know, and that
22:32
Speaker 1: I went through that change personally about twenty one years ago.
22:36
Speaker 1: And you know, I think I'm still still writing as
22:40
Speaker 1: impactful to me anyway, impactful weird, fucked up music like
22:45
Speaker 1: I made when I fucked up. So I don't really
22:49
Speaker 1: think that that's a requirement. It is part of the
22:53
Speaker 1: mythos of being a musician and an art I think
22:56
Speaker 1: everybody kind of asked to go through that period. I know,
22:59
Speaker 1: I knew that was attractive and appealing to me, even
23:02
Speaker 1: with all of the yeah, even with all of the
23:05
Speaker 1: signposts of early deaths and not working out for people like, hey,
23:10
Speaker 1: that's not going to happen to me. You know, I'm
23:12
Speaker 1: sure they thought that too, right, you know what I mean.
23:16
Speaker 1: So I don't denigrate it. I don't put it down.
23:18
Speaker 1: I've been sober for twenty one years and I still
23:21
Speaker 1: wouldn't be able to get fucked up, you know what
23:23
Speaker 1: I mean? Because it is fun. It's fun getting outside.
23:26
Speaker 1: It's totally trippy hanging out with weird people, you know,
23:30
Speaker 1: just different scenarios, different different frames of mind that being
23:34
Speaker 1: high and getting fucked up can can put you in.
23:37
Speaker 1: So I'm not going to put it down because I
23:39
Speaker 1: did it, and I and I did a lot of
23:40
Speaker 1: good stuff, but you know, at some point it stopped
23:42
Speaker 1: working for me. Luckily, I knew a lot of people
23:46
Speaker 1: that did what I that I did, referring to some
23:49
Speaker 1: of the guys in the the sort of playing with
23:51
Speaker 1: right after I got sober, Billy Morrison, Tomorrow, Matt's Arm
23:55
Speaker 1: Billy duppy, you know, the guys who'd been through through
23:58
Speaker 1: what I through partying and then gone through the other
24:00
Speaker 1: side of like, Okay, this doesn't work anymore. I got
24:02
Speaker 1: to figure a new way to out to do this. Yeah,
24:05
Speaker 1: all those guys still rock as far as I've last checked,
24:08
Speaker 1: and I think I'm doing okay too as far as the
24:10
Speaker 1: music element. So you can. You can do it either way.
24:13
Speaker 3: You know, was there a time in your life where
24:16
Speaker 3: you thought drug use was glamorous?
24:19
Speaker 1: Oh? I don't know. I mean, it's just like I say,
24:20
Speaker 1: it's part of the part of the mythos and you're
24:22
Speaker 1: you're a young kid, so you're gonna you're gonna do
24:25
Speaker 1: all this stuff that young kids do. I'm not a
24:27
Speaker 1: young kid anymore. So I can't do what young kids do.
24:30
Speaker 1: It would fucking kill me. So I gotta do. Uh
24:32
Speaker 1: this version of me, which which I like very much.
24:35
Speaker 1: I I like life. I like the consistency of life now,
24:40
Speaker 1: Like the ceilings are not as high, okay, but the
24:43
Speaker 1: floors are not as low either, so you know, I
24:47
Speaker 1: mean it's a little bit more even, and uh, I
24:50
Speaker 1: like that consistency.
24:52
Speaker 3: So yeah, have you always been drawn two dark things?
24:56
Speaker 3: Like you said, like you can write equally as fucked
24:59
Speaker 3: up things now as you know back when.
25:01
Speaker 4: But have you always been drawn to sort of like
25:04
Speaker 4: the dark arts.
25:05
Speaker 3: Yeah, like horror movies, books like how far does It go?
25:09
Speaker 1: Yeah? I think it goes really deep. I mean I
25:11
Speaker 1: was a huge horror fan. I mean, Stephen King is
25:13
Speaker 1: one of my all time favorite authors. I like material
25:16
Speaker 1: that has weight, that's dark, that has impact that shocks.
25:20
Speaker 1: You know. I love party music too, man, I just
25:23
Speaker 1: don't write it, you know what I mean. It doesn't
25:26
Speaker 1: connect to me as something I want to recreate. There's
25:28
Speaker 1: other artists and other bands that do it and do
25:30
Speaker 1: it well, and I enjoy it. I love that shit, man.
25:34
Speaker 1: But I agree with you that, you know, I'm kind
25:36
Speaker 1: of drawn to things a little bit more in the shadows,
25:39
Speaker 1: and also something that's going to give you a good
25:42
Speaker 1: left turn or a good shock or a good punch
25:44
Speaker 1: to the face, or maybe confronting some things that are
25:47
Speaker 1: some things and emotions and situations that aren't easy to
25:50
Speaker 1: talk about. You know. I'm into music, you know, so
25:54
Speaker 1: I think that that's one of the aspects of music
25:57
Speaker 1: that is so appealing to us weird little monkeys. You know,
26:01
Speaker 1: it's it's a way for us to share things with
26:03
Speaker 1: each other without actually ever you know, even if we
26:06
Speaker 1: have never met or you know what I mean, we
26:08
Speaker 1: can can still understand each other and communicate with each
26:11
Speaker 1: other and share stuff. And it makes the tough stuff easier,
26:15
Speaker 1: you know, because it's because it's shared. It also makes
26:18
Speaker 1: the good stuff even that much more fucking celebratory because
26:22
Speaker 1: you know, we're all feeling that way. So I think
26:25
Speaker 1: that that's a pretty apt descriptor do you.
26:27
Speaker 3: Remember as a kid when you started realizing that you
26:30
Speaker 3: were into dark stuff or when that started to when
26:34
Speaker 3: that just started overall?
26:36
Speaker 1: I don't know when it started, you know dark to me,
26:39
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's I don't know that there's like
26:41
Speaker 1: a lot of connotations of that that that I would
26:44
Speaker 1: take exception to, Like, so like what dark? So it's
26:48
Speaker 1: it's just a it's a bummer, it's evil. I think
26:52
Speaker 1: the word for me that better is weight, something that's
26:55
Speaker 1: got substantial you know, like a big, greasy, bleeding cheeseburger,
27:01
Speaker 1: you know, you know what I mean? So uh Bord
27:05
Speaker 1: and I just we always talk about making big, greasy,
27:08
Speaker 1: bloody cheeseburgers. We're fitting drub cheeseburgers. But what that is,
27:12
Speaker 1: that's the type of work we want to make. You know,
27:14
Speaker 1: it's a sloppy, fucking mess, and it should have some
27:17
Speaker 1: fucking on it. There's no reason it may not be
27:21
Speaker 1: nutritionally fucking the great for you, but it's just fucking primal,
27:25
Speaker 1: you know. So I've always been drawn to films, books,
27:29
Speaker 1: music like that, even classical type stuff when I was
27:32
Speaker 1: in school, So I guess that's the music. I tried
27:36
Speaker 1: to make my own version of it.
27:39
Speaker 3: I saw someone refer to to you and laying your
27:43
Speaker 3: harmonies as the Devil's Everly Brothers.
27:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I always liked that one. Yeah.
27:49
Speaker 3: Do you remember the first time you guys sang together
27:52
Speaker 3: and what you realize like, was it like a revelation
27:56
Speaker 3: or did it sort of take some time to become
27:58
Speaker 3: what it was?
28:00
Speaker 1: I mean, it always takes time in retrospect, it wasn't
28:03
Speaker 1: that much time. I mean we formed at the end
28:05
Speaker 1: of eighty seven, and we so basically basically eighty eight
28:10
Speaker 1: was where you know, we started actually, you know, playing
28:13
Speaker 1: gigs and stuff like that. We'd played our first gig
28:15
Speaker 1: at Caine Hall at the University of Washington in I
28:19
Speaker 1: think December of eighty seven, so, and we put our
28:22
Speaker 1: first record out in ninety you know, FACELIOFS. So it
28:25
Speaker 1: wasn't really that long, but you know, we would just
28:27
Speaker 1: spend a lot of time jamming and you know, living together,
28:30
Speaker 1: like either in the rehearsal place or we had a
28:32
Speaker 1: band house, and you know, we were coming up with
28:34
Speaker 1: ideas and jam and stuff. And you know, I think
28:38
Speaker 1: Laine was a big fan of you know, harmony and
28:41
Speaker 1: different voices, you know, in the band. It was his
28:43
Speaker 1: actually suggestion that I actually sing more, you know, starting
28:47
Speaker 1: from sap onward. You know, I started singing more and
28:50
Speaker 1: more at his suggestion, and I was completely happy just
28:55
Speaker 1: singing some singing backups and writing songs because we had him,
28:58
Speaker 1: you know, so but he was like that, you know,
29:00
Speaker 1: you should you should sing these two and you know,
29:03
Speaker 1: the Beatles is probably the best reference. There are many
29:06
Speaker 1: bands that come after the Beatles that are this blue
29:09
Speaker 1: print where there's more than one lead singer, more than
29:11
Speaker 1: one writer, more than one lead voice. And I've always
29:15
Speaker 1: been a fan of bands like that, and so it
29:18
Speaker 1: was really cool to be able to develop into a
29:21
Speaker 1: band that kind of had that. Those Hallwarks you know,
29:24
Speaker 1: the either Lane could lead or I could lead, or
29:28
Speaker 1: when we sang together, you know, we created something bigger
29:31
Speaker 1: than the both of us, you know, and so like
29:33
Speaker 1: one plus one equals three, you know.
29:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, when you meet super fans, when you meet Alice
29:38
Speaker 3: and Jane super fans, what are they usually curious about?
29:41
Speaker 4: What do they ask you about?
29:43
Speaker 1: What are they ask me about? I mean all sorts
29:45
Speaker 1: of stuff. It's cool, man, Like, you know, it's amazing
29:49
Speaker 1: that to have people that have connected to the work
29:52
Speaker 1: that you've been a part of, you know. So so
29:55
Speaker 1: you know this musical stuff, personal stuff, you know, stuff
29:58
Speaker 1: from the past. You know what's going on now. You know,
30:02
Speaker 1: generally everybody wants a picture. Yeah, sometimes that's an opportune
30:08
Speaker 1: time for me. So I always I always want to
30:11
Speaker 1: send somebody away with at least a hello, a handshake,
30:13
Speaker 1: and a guitar pick.
30:14
Speaker 3: So I always have a yeah I saw somebody on
30:16
Speaker 3: Reddit who got a guitar pick.
30:17
Speaker 1: I usually have a big pocket full of guitar picks.
30:20
Speaker 1: So so I've got something to give somebody. But you know,
30:23
Speaker 1: it's usually just a quick hello, how you do? And
30:26
Speaker 1: my head that that was cool? You know me.
30:29
Speaker 4: Yea early on in the band.
30:32
Speaker 3: How would you describe everyone in the band, like what
30:36
Speaker 3: their individual expertise was.
30:40
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I think I think all bands have
30:43
Speaker 1: a particular alchemy, and I think I think that a
30:46
Speaker 1: lot of the I think a lot of the things
30:48
Speaker 1: of why things work and what those elements are are
30:52
Speaker 1: kind of hard to define, but they're completely necessary. You know,
30:57
Speaker 1: you need Ringo, you need you need George Harrison, you
31:00
Speaker 1: need Cartney, you need Lenin to make the Beatles. And
31:02
Speaker 1: you can say that about any band, including ours, Mike,
31:06
Speaker 1: Me and Sean. So all elements are acquired. Uh, you
31:11
Speaker 1: have a shared vision. I guess that you develop because
31:14
Speaker 1: you're a bunch of young guys and you're kind of
31:16
Speaker 1: excited about making music together, and at some point you decide, hey,
31:20
Speaker 1: I like hanging out with you, you know, why don't
31:23
Speaker 1: we Why don't we try to make a band? You know?
31:25
Speaker 1: And it works? You know. And I think also that
31:28
Speaker 1: you know, there may be certain like roles I guess
31:31
Speaker 1: that each guy plays or whatever that are yeah, or
31:35
Speaker 1: maybe clearly defined, but but I think they're all roles
31:38
Speaker 1: that we all trade off to each other at different times,
31:42
Speaker 1: you know, So you know, maybe somebody is the main songwriter.
31:46
Speaker 1: Now maybe maybe that changes later, or maybe somebody handles
31:51
Speaker 1: the business aspect of it, or maybe that changes later
31:54
Speaker 1: to somebody else, Like it's you. Yeah, you have a
31:56
Speaker 1: shared experience and you're all learning things and going about
32:01
Speaker 1: things and together. So it's stuff you all share. So
32:04
Speaker 1: we everybody can play any position on the field that
32:07
Speaker 1: need to, including the one that they play in the band,
32:10
Speaker 1: you know, whether the bass player, the drummer, or the
32:13
Speaker 1: guitar player.
32:16
Speaker 3: Very cool, Okay, So I wanted to ask you about
32:18
Speaker 3: a couple of individual songs.
32:20
Speaker 4: First is Damn That River. Do you remember how that
32:23
Speaker 4: came about?
32:24
Speaker 3: Do you remember any of the sessions or anything really
32:27
Speaker 3: from you know, writing that song, arranging that song?
32:32
Speaker 1: Oh boy, I mean I don't know. It's it's been
32:35
Speaker 1: a few years. Yeah, Damn that I was just a
32:41
Speaker 1: really aggressive riff, you know, and a lot of energy
32:46
Speaker 1: to that. Good tunes, good riff.
32:49
Speaker 4: Yeah totally.
32:50
Speaker 3: Do you find like, do you trust your memory at
32:52
Speaker 3: this point? Like I know that you have to. When
32:54
Speaker 3: people interview you, they ask often about things that happened,
32:58
Speaker 3: you know, as early as eighty seven. Now, do you
33:02
Speaker 3: trust that the stories happened as you remember?
33:06
Speaker 1: Them.
33:07
Speaker 4: I just no memory can be a funny thing and sometimes.
33:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you know, there's there's a couple of elements here,
33:12
Speaker 1: you know, like like one, do you want to talk
33:14
Speaker 1: about it too? You might not want to let somebody
33:17
Speaker 1: know all that all there is to know at any
33:19
Speaker 1: given moment, right Two. Uh, yeah, it's a lot of
33:23
Speaker 1: years past. But you know, you also have the collective
33:26
Speaker 1: memory of all of you together, so that helps if
33:28
Speaker 1: there's fucking lapses, you know what I mean. So I'm
33:31
Speaker 1: focused on what I'm doing right now.
33:33
Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, can you tell me a little bit
33:36
Speaker 3: about Afterglow? That's another track that really stood out to
33:39
Speaker 3: me on the new album. How did that one come
33:42
Speaker 3: to be?
33:43
Speaker 1: You know, I did most of the demoing and writing
33:45
Speaker 1: here at my house, and you know, I've got a
33:47
Speaker 1: pretty minimal setup. It's not like a grand studio thing.
33:50
Speaker 1: It's just you know, pro tools type stuff, and you know,
33:53
Speaker 1: I got a little electronic drum kit and some headphones
33:56
Speaker 1: that we can all jam on and so we don't
33:58
Speaker 1: piss the neighbors off, you know what I mean. So yeah,
34:01
Speaker 1: but it's cool, you know, just like it's like old
34:03
Speaker 1: school shity living room jamsh you know, a converted bedroom
34:07
Speaker 1: to write in, and I got a little converted bedroom
34:10
Speaker 1: studio upstairs, and then the living rooms turned into a
34:12
Speaker 1: jam room. And the process for me is pretty similar,
34:16
Speaker 1: you know, It's pretty tried and true, so I stick
34:18
Speaker 1: with it. It's it's about I don't know what what
34:21
Speaker 1: flips the switch in my head. I don't write all
34:24
Speaker 1: the time, and I think it's important. It takes months,
34:28
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes even years before I make another think
34:31
Speaker 1: about making another record, you know what I mean, or
34:34
Speaker 1: or writing another song, you know. And once when I'm
34:36
Speaker 1: in the the headspace of touring, which I am right now,
34:40
Speaker 1: I will write a lot less, you know. And when
34:43
Speaker 1: that all wraps up, then at some point it'll go
34:46
Speaker 1: on and that that switch will get flipped and it'll
34:48
Speaker 1: be it's time to time to go again. And so
34:50
Speaker 1: I'll call up Max or my good buddy Paul Figueroa,
34:54
Speaker 1: who has been my demo and engineer partner for the
34:57
Speaker 1: last four four records. This year was Maxwell Yurowski, really
35:00
Speaker 1: talented dude, and it'll just be me and me and
35:04
Speaker 1: them in a room just sketching shit out, mess and
35:07
Speaker 1: messing around with stuff, and then call and a few
35:09
Speaker 1: people few friends to jam them out in the in
35:11
Speaker 1: the room to to uh to test them, test the theory,
35:16
Speaker 1: see how it feels in a live context, and then
35:18
Speaker 1: also get ideas and go back into the writing process.
35:22
Speaker 1: But it's usually once it starts, it's about three four
35:24
Speaker 1: months of demoing, and then it's a month or two
35:27
Speaker 1: of like pre production with like who you're going to
35:29
Speaker 1: make the record with and who's gonna record it for you,
35:32
Speaker 1: and then you go onto the record and that's another
35:34
Speaker 1: you know, three to six months, and so it's it's
35:37
Speaker 1: about a year process of making a record from wow,
35:40
Speaker 1: from scratch to end, and then it and then the
35:43
Speaker 1: touring cycle starts. And then that when you were from
35:45
Speaker 1: a year to year and a half, so you're looking
35:47
Speaker 1: at a two and a half to three year cycle
35:49
Speaker 1: and you got to you got to be willing to
35:51
Speaker 1: take that whole ride, leave anything on the field, and
35:54
Speaker 1: you can't. You can't wo's out once it starts, it's
35:57
Speaker 1: like when you've got to commit to that. And so
35:59
Speaker 1: going back to the beginning of that, that's why I
36:01
Speaker 1: take time off, you know, I think time off totally
36:04
Speaker 1: it's important so that you can recharge, you can kind
36:08
Speaker 1: of clear the decks of ideas, the halls are empty
36:11
Speaker 1: and get quiet again for new ideas to come in
36:14
Speaker 1: and start collecting again. So yeah, but you were asking
36:17
Speaker 1: me about Afterglow. I thought that was a cornerstone song.
36:21
Speaker 1: I think there's a handful of really cornerstone songs to
36:24
Speaker 1: each album and vilify it and and Afterglow are both those.
36:28
Speaker 1: And I got to work with one of my one
36:30
Speaker 1: of my favorite filmmakers and video artists, Matt Maherne, and
36:34
Speaker 1: he made a great video for it as well. But yeah,
36:37
Speaker 1: it's a really lush landscape and it's got the got
36:40
Speaker 1: the cool keys and the strings kind of you know,
36:43
Speaker 1: all of my love Led Zeppelin kind of vibe to
36:46
Speaker 1: a little bit of that kind of bottom roll to it,
36:49
Speaker 1: and some John Paul Jones keyboards and shit. And it's
36:54
Speaker 1: an important song and I think that's gonna where That's
36:56
Speaker 1: going to be the next single here.
36:57
Speaker 3: So what do you see, if Eddie, the difference between
37:02
Speaker 3: Brighton and I Want Blood. I've seen that, you know,
37:06
Speaker 3: people describing I Want Blood as having more teeth and
37:10
Speaker 3: just being harder, generally more aggressive and brightened, being a
37:14
Speaker 3: little bit more like mild tempo acoustic bass songs.
37:18
Speaker 4: How do you see the difference in what, like.
37:21
Speaker 3: Where were you at in your life personally when those
37:23
Speaker 3: albums were coming together.
37:25
Speaker 1: Well, they're three years apart, so that's a lot of
37:27
Speaker 1: life and yeah, always going to be in a different
37:31
Speaker 1: a much different place with that much time that's passed.
37:34
Speaker 1: So then that's the cool thing about about living a life,
37:37
Speaker 1: about living a musical, creative life. You know, you're always
37:42
Speaker 1: standing somewhere new, you know what I mean. The world
37:45
Speaker 1: is going through something that hasn't gone through before. The
37:48
Speaker 1: you know, events, you know, things happen, your relationships change.
37:53
Speaker 1: I mean, for me, it's a different kid. You know,
37:56
Speaker 1: it's a kid born three years after the last one,
37:58
Speaker 1: so you should be able to see the lineage. Yeah,
38:01
Speaker 1: that's his kid. But yeah, so it's the baby right
38:04
Speaker 1: now and it might be a little more really and
38:07
Speaker 1: a little bit more of a troublemaker than the last.
38:10
Speaker 4: Yes, that makes sense.
38:16
Speaker 3: On Brighton, I want to ask you about the song
38:18
Speaker 3: A Tone. How did that one come to be?
38:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a that's a really interesting Uh, it's a
38:25
Speaker 1: really interesting story on the tone. I had that riff
38:29
Speaker 1: and I had two parts of a three part song,
38:33
Speaker 1: but I only had the two and so that's why
38:35
Speaker 1: it never became a song, So cycling through my head
38:39
Speaker 1: for almost two decades. So then I knew it was
38:42
Speaker 1: really good, but I also knew it needed a it
38:45
Speaker 1: needed a third part, so that breakdown section in the
38:47
Speaker 1: middle and also the outro stomp Tyler Bates contribution to
38:52
Speaker 1: that that particular song. H those two new things came
38:56
Speaker 1: into existence and allowed it to be finally a song.
39:01
Speaker 1: Ideas or ideas, you know, like, you know, not every
39:03
Speaker 1: script gets made, you know, but it's cool to keep it,
39:06
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? And and like maybe maybe
39:08
Speaker 1: like parts of parts of things can be frankenstein into
39:12
Speaker 1: something else later on and become a full fledged song
39:16
Speaker 1: on its own. And a Tone was one of those.
39:18
Speaker 1: It's great and I like philified. I thought it was
39:21
Speaker 1: the perfect gopiner.
39:23
Speaker 2: After this last quick break, we'll be back with the
39:25
Speaker 2: rest of Lea Rose's conversation with Jerry Cantrell. Here's the
39:32
Speaker 2: rest of Lea Rose's conversation with Jerry Cantrell.
39:36
Speaker 3: Is there anything else about the new album or anything
39:40
Speaker 3: about the tour that you want to talk about specifically?
39:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, this year is it's going to be interesting
39:46
Speaker 1: because you know, I am a member of Alis in Chains,
39:49
Speaker 1: and so you know, that's kind of my first and
39:51
Speaker 1: foremost love and has been my commitment. I don't get
39:54
Speaker 1: the opportunity to do these very often records outside of
39:58
Speaker 1: the band. I guess that's why I'm a little more
40:01
Speaker 1: wanting to focus on this right now. It's because it
40:03
Speaker 1: doesn't happen very often. I've done these two records within
40:07
Speaker 1: a three year period, andlast time I did that, I
40:10
Speaker 1: did another two records within a three year period nineteen
40:13
Speaker 1: to twenty years ago. Hopefully one other twenty years before
40:17
Speaker 1: I get to do a couple more. But if that's
40:19
Speaker 1: the case, that's fine, because I'll be making music with
40:22
Speaker 1: Alice like I have been doing all along. So so
40:25
Speaker 1: this year is fun because I get to I get
40:27
Speaker 1: to do some touring with Alice and also do some
40:31
Speaker 1: touring on a record that I made for myself and
40:35
Speaker 1: with my creative partners outside the band.
40:37
Speaker 4: So how are you with touring? Do you enjoy it
40:40
Speaker 4: at this point?
40:41
Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, I mean that's the best part, you know,
40:43
Speaker 1: The best part is standing in front of people and
40:46
Speaker 1: playing this stuff and having it back to it and
40:49
Speaker 1: getting that instant you know, connection. It's always surprising, you know,
40:54
Speaker 1: to me, it still is. You know, there's that I
40:58
Speaker 1: think you know, we're all human and so you know,
41:00
Speaker 1: there's always that voice in the back of your head
41:03
Speaker 1: like you know, one of these days they're going to
41:04
Speaker 1: figure out you're a fucking fraud. And that right, you know,
41:10
Speaker 1: that's that's that's a good voice because it drives you
41:12
Speaker 1: to prove, to achieve, to be better, to work hard.
41:17
Speaker 1: And the payoff is when you're standing on a stage
41:19
Speaker 1: and you're and you've gone through all that process and
41:22
Speaker 1: mental mumbo jumbo with yourself and and you come out
41:25
Speaker 1: the other side with a batch of tunes and stand
41:27
Speaker 1: on a stage and play I've made connections, you know,
41:29
Speaker 1: and written some pretty good songs over the last uh,
41:32
Speaker 1: you know, three four decades that people want to you know,
41:35
Speaker 1: react to. So to play them stuff along with that
41:39
Speaker 1: old the older tunes and have them react in the
41:41
Speaker 1: same way, it gives you chills. I was in the
41:44
Speaker 1: Buenos Ais uh in particular. Uh, it's really trippy there.
41:48
Speaker 1: They like sing the guitar solos as well as the
41:52
Speaker 1: I mean, the whole thing, like you know it's going
41:55
Speaker 1: to happen, but but like even the little little riffs
41:58
Speaker 1: like on on Afterglow they start singing that ship and
42:04
Speaker 1: it's like so cool. It takes you by It takes
42:07
Speaker 1: me by surprise, and like I can kind I've expected
42:09
Speaker 1: because I know the audience is going to do that,
42:11
Speaker 1: but when it actually happens and it hits you and
42:13
Speaker 1: this thing just came out like a week ago, you know,
42:15
Speaker 1: it's it's a really powerful moment, you know.
42:18
Speaker 3: So when is the ideal time would you say to
42:21
Speaker 3: see a band, like at what point during the tour
42:23
Speaker 3: in the beginning, middle, or end.
42:25
Speaker 1: I think any times really good. I mean, you know,
42:27
Speaker 1: if there's a band that you want to see and
42:30
Speaker 1: you're you happen to be at the first aid on
42:32
Speaker 1: the tour, you can't really do anything exactly unless you
42:37
Speaker 1: want to travel. Sometimes it's cool, man, when it's raw
42:40
Speaker 1: and loose, you know, and that that really is rock
42:43
Speaker 1: and roll. Rock and roll is the threat that the
42:46
Speaker 1: train could come off the rails at any moment. Yes,
42:50
Speaker 1: And I think I even reference that in a in
42:53
Speaker 1: a song and off the rails, so like there's always
42:55
Speaker 1: two wheels off the rails. Man, it's always threatening, you know,
42:58
Speaker 1: to come off, to come off and it doesn't somehow,
43:01
Speaker 1: and and and it's always fun live when shit gets
43:05
Speaker 1: a little squirrely, like can they bring it back? You know?
43:07
Speaker 1: Can you can you save? Yeah, because it's it's live performance,
43:12
Speaker 1: and and that's kind of the beauty of it. You know,
43:15
Speaker 1: some of the early gigs can be fun because there's
43:17
Speaker 1: they're kind of a little looser and raw. And then
43:20
Speaker 1: you know, but it's also kind of cool seeing middle
43:22
Speaker 1: tour gigs who were where you're kind of greasy and
43:25
Speaker 1: and in the groove, and you know, at toward toward
43:28
Speaker 1: the end of the tour sometimes you know you could
43:31
Speaker 1: be dealing with elements like where or somebody could be
43:34
Speaker 1: you know, you could be sick. That always sucks. The
43:37
Speaker 1: worst thing. You can be sick and feel like shit
43:39
Speaker 1: and play a gig doing any other position in the band,
43:42
Speaker 1: but trying to sing when you have an o blaces.
43:44
Speaker 1: Fucking that's that sucks. And I've done it many times
43:47
Speaker 1: and I will unless I absolutely can't utter a word
43:52
Speaker 1: or I've got a fucking ivy in my arm and
43:54
Speaker 1: I'm in a bed, which has only happened once or
43:57
Speaker 1: twice in my career. I'm going to be up there
43:58
Speaker 1: until I fall over, wow, because they paid money and
44:03
Speaker 1: bought tickets, and they made plans and they got hotel rooms,
44:07
Speaker 1: and if I can make it happen, I'm try to
44:09
Speaker 1: do it. And so that all goes in with what
44:11
Speaker 1: we were talking about with the live element. Once it starts,
44:14
Speaker 1: you can't stop it, you know what I mean, unless
44:16
Speaker 1: it's catastrophic, you know, And and those happened very rarely, thankfully.
44:21
Speaker 3: So have you ever had any like major malfunctions happened
44:24
Speaker 3: during a show where like sound goes out or all
44:28
Speaker 3: the time?
44:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, all the time. I think one of the most
44:31
Speaker 1: epic ones was I think it was the show we
44:33
Speaker 1: got signed on. We were playing at some I think
44:38
Speaker 1: it was a drag strip, some sort of raceway and
44:41
Speaker 1: Spokane or something. We were opening for Tesla, Great White
44:46
Speaker 1: and somebody else, and we had like a I don't know,
44:49
Speaker 1: we had like twenty minutes to open. We were were
44:53
Speaker 1: the first band. We had twenty minutes, and the PA
44:56
Speaker 1: wasn't on for so we basically played like four songs,
44:59
Speaker 1: four or five songs, and the PA wasn't even on
45:01
Speaker 1: for about half of them. Oh, and everybody in the
45:07
Speaker 1: audience is like, can't hear you, we can't hear you.
45:11
Speaker 1: And we got off and we were so pissed off
45:13
Speaker 1: and we thought we blew our big break. But the
45:16
Speaker 1: guys from Nick Turzo and Ron I think his name was,
45:19
Speaker 1: but they're like, now, you guys, dealt with it. Dealt
45:21
Speaker 1: with it fine. And the two songs that were through
45:24
Speaker 1: the PA were killed some we're going to sign anyway,
45:27
Speaker 1: So another gig and I want to say it was
45:31
Speaker 1: maybe Finland or something, and the PA went out for
45:35
Speaker 1: about forty five minutes and like my god, basically we
45:38
Speaker 1: just stopped the show. We went and went down to
45:40
Speaker 1: the barricade and kind of let everybody know because they
45:43
Speaker 1: couldn't hear us through the mic. So we went down
45:44
Speaker 1: and said, hey, the power is off. We're going to
45:46
Speaker 1: stay here till the power comes back on, if that's
45:49
Speaker 1: okay with you, and we just kind of hung out
45:51
Speaker 1: talk with the crowd until the power came back on
45:53
Speaker 1: and then we finished our set.
45:54
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, I heard you had food poisoning during the
45:58
Speaker 3: Alison Chains unplug show.
46:00
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I was not feeling well. Yeah, And if
46:03
Speaker 1: you look very closely, there's a trash can at my
46:06
Speaker 1: feet for me to vomit in but luck when the
46:09
Speaker 1: when the light went green and the cameras went on
46:12
Speaker 1: and we started playing, I got a little adrenaline rush
46:15
Speaker 1: and I started. Yeah. So that turned out to be
46:18
Speaker 1: one of the greatest shows we've ever played, you know.
46:21
Speaker 1: So yeah, but I was feeling like fucking shit until
46:25
Speaker 1: it started, and then soon as the show was over,
46:27
Speaker 1: I went back to feeling like shit and back on
46:29
Speaker 1: the IV. So I was sick and sick as a dog. Yeah.
46:33
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was watching it last night and I saw
46:34
Speaker 3: I think it was during Rooster. You were kind of
46:36
Speaker 3: like laughing doing something. I was like, oh, he looks
46:39
Speaker 3: he looks happy.
46:40
Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, yeah, that's just part of the deal man. Cool.
46:44
Speaker 3: Is there anything else you want to talk about with
46:46
Speaker 3: the new album, any other new projects, any movie projects
46:50
Speaker 3: coming up?
46:51
Speaker 1: Uh, you know, I'm always open to that. I would
46:53
Speaker 1: love to do a song with Tyler for a movie.
46:56
Speaker 1: We wrote a song called A Job to Do for
46:58
Speaker 1: the second John Wick installment and that was really fun.
47:02
Speaker 1: You know, I want blood the people that I that
47:06
Speaker 1: I had made the record with, you know, Gil Sharon
47:08
Speaker 1: and Mike than on drums. You know, it's it's my
47:12
Speaker 1: second record with both of those guys. Robert Trujillo. It's
47:15
Speaker 1: my second record with Degradation Trip and this one Duff
47:19
Speaker 1: and I. I think I've done three or four records together,
47:22
Speaker 1: a couple of his, couple of Greg Proshato. That's it's
47:27
Speaker 1: our it's our second record together. Being in a band
47:30
Speaker 1: is hanging out with your friends, just like it always was,
47:33
Speaker 1: you know, like you get together in a basement, in
47:35
Speaker 1: a garage, in a living room and you rock out
47:38
Speaker 1: and try to figure out this thing called rock and roll,
47:41
Speaker 1: share it and try to create your own version of it.
47:43
Speaker 1: And so in Alice, we're a family, and first and
47:46
Speaker 1: foremost we're friends. And so if I'm making music outside
47:50
Speaker 1: the band, I still go by that template. I call
47:52
Speaker 1: it my friend. So that's why all these these fine
47:55
Speaker 1: folks are on the record. Also, you know, it's not
47:59
Speaker 1: lost on me that I'm pretty lucky to be able
48:01
Speaker 1: to call these guys up who all have pretty amazing
48:04
Speaker 1: bands and pretty full time jobs with their bands, and
48:08
Speaker 1: catch him in windows when when we're able to make
48:11
Speaker 1: some music together, it's just it's just lined up that way,
48:14
Speaker 1: and uh, and we make we make some pretty good
48:17
Speaker 1: noise together. So I'm glad, everybody said yes when I called.
48:21
Speaker 4: Yeah, it sounds like so much fun.
48:23
Speaker 1: It is it should be.
48:25
Speaker 4: Thank you so much, Jerry, appreciate you. I appreciate your
48:27
Speaker 4: time and have fun on tour.
48:30
Speaker 1: Okay, thanks Leah.
48:33
Speaker 2: Thanks so much to Jerry Cantreell for coming on to
48:35
Speaker 2: talk about his new project I Want Blood and His
48:39
Speaker 2: Days and Alison Chains to hear some of our favorite
48:41
Speaker 2: Jerry Cantroyl and Alison Chans songs. Check out the playlist
48:44
Speaker 2: and episode notes or on our website at broken Record
48:47
Speaker 2: podcast dot com, and be sure to follow us on
48:50
Speaker 2: Instagram at the Broken Record pot. You can follow us
48:53
Speaker 2: on Twitter at Broken Record. Broken Record is produced and
48:57
Speaker 2: edited by Leah Rose, with marketing help from Eric Sandler
49:00
Speaker 2: and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Tolat.
49:03
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49:04
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49:29
Speaker 2: I'm Justin Richmond,