Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Using Apprenticeships to Grow Your Financial Planning Business, Save Money and Help The Next Generation of Financial Planners, with Carolyn Blunt

Transcript

Using Apprenticeships to Grow Your Financial Planning Business, Save Money and Help The Next Generation of Financial Planners, with Carolyn Blunt · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, and welcome to the Financial Planner Life Podcast, where we talk to professionals at varying stages in their career about what it's like working in the wonderful world of financial planning and financial advice.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_02: This podcast is proudly sponsored by Recruit UK, a recruitment consultancy specifically focused on the financial services.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: They have a niche specialism, recruiting, within the financial planning industry.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_02: So check out their website for the latest job opportunities, hints and tips, and blog articles.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: Today's guest is Carolyn Blunt from Davies Learning Solutions.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: They are an outsourced apprenticeship provider, and they are providing apprenticeships to the financial planning profession.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: And today, Carolyn talks about how to implement these into your business.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: What is available for administrators, power planners, and financial planners, and what qualifications are covered?
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: What you as an employer need to do to contribute to the success of a new apprentice and why you don't need to call it an apprenticeship.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not only available just for school leavers, it can be available to absolutely everybody, including existing staff.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_02: So this is a real surefire way of attracting the next generation to financial planning and to help grow your business in the future.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: Well worth a listen if you're looking to grow your financial planning practice.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: Carolyn, thanks so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: How are you?
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm good, thank you, Sam.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: No worries.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: Pleased you can be here.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: So, Carolyn, we're all about attracting new young talent to the financial planning profession and obviously upskilling those already within the profession.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: And your background is apprenticeships.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: So today it's about finding out what part apprenticeships can play in financial planning and growing companies.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: So just tell us a little bit about what you do.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm so excited to share some of this because I've been working in learning and development for about 20 years.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: And it's only since 2017 that the apprenticeship levy fund has obviously come about.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll touch on that and explain how now we're getting really clever about using this to get our financial planning qualifications.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a win-win for both people wanting to learn and study and employers.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: Fantastic.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: Just tell us a little bit about what the apprenticeship levy is for those that don't know about it.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: For those that don't know, the apprenticeship levy is a tax on employers with a pay bill over three million.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: So it normally kicks in around 100 staff and they pay half a percent of that pay bill a month into a pot.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: The government also match funds that by 10%, and they can only access that money to spend on learning and development with registered training providers.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: And if they don't use it within two years, it gets taken away and it gets redistributed to SMEs who don't hit that threshold.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: Therefore, it makes the funding accessible to everybody, which is a really positive thing.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: So what you're saying at the moment then, this levy, this funding is available to everybody right now, regardless of the size of your business?
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly that, yeah.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: So there is a kind of contribution sort of level that employees may have to contribute depending on the age of the person that they're putting through a program.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: But by and large, it's about 95% of the programmes are funded.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: And those programs that we do in financial planning are usually around about the£9,000 value mark.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it's only kind of£450 that they have to pay.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: Fantastic.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: So you've just touched on that there.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: So you specializing in apprenticeships then for financial planning companies, is that correct?
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think there's a big myth around apprenticeships and people thinking they're just for trades and that you know it's just for young people or new starters.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: But actually, this money exists for 753 programs, and we do 22 of those, the bulk of which are in financial services.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: So we have paraplanner apprenticeships, we have financial advisor apprenticeships, you can do your full suite of qualifications and exams with an apprenticeship and thereby access the funding for it.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: So we're definitely at a problem within the financial planning profession where you've got lots of people who are aging out of the profession and exiting and not enough new people coming into it.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: But there's also a real issue around a large number of small to medium enterprises just not being able to afford or be able to create the infrastructure, if you like, for a training program within their smaller businesses.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's the sort of type of thing that you're looking to fix with with what you were doing there at um at Davies.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: So we can basically put people onto our programs.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: They're all done virtually at the moment as well, and they're coming from small firms, they're coming from large firms as well, but the smaller firms we mix them together in cohort groups.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: We start a cohort usually about every quarter, and then we'll we'll put them on a virtual classroom and they'll have a specialist tutor and they'll go through everything they need to do in order to pass their exams and complete the apprenticeship.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: So there's kind of two halves to it.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just about coming in and getting a route to do your CII exams, it's also then about getting the skills, knowledge, and behaviour evidence to pass the apprenticeship qualification as well.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: So there's there's a real kind of benefit to employers of getting that fully rounded piece as well, which shows the application of the learning, not just like I've spotted and passed the exam.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, brilliant.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: So just talk to us a little bit about that application of learning then.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: So if I was a financial planning firm right now, director of my own company, I wanted to take on apprentices, an apprentice.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: And let's say that apprentice is a little bit wet behind the ears, got no experience of working in financial planning at all, and I've got no infrastructure in place within my business, but I know I need to hire.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: I'm struggling to hire out there in the open marketplace because perhaps I can't afford to pay the recruitment fees, or I can't afford to pay the salaries for an experienced power planner, for instance.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_02: Talk to me about what it's like bringing on an apprentice.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: What do I have to do as an employer?
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: And what do you guys do to ease the burden of taking some, not burden as such, but ease the stress or the difficulty of hiring and training whilst trying to do my job?
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a really common challenge, and we're actually helping a lot of uh financials planning firms bring sons and daughters in as part of an exit strategy.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and sometimes those sons and daughters don't always know if this is definitely one of what they want to do, and the pandemic has maybe changed their gap year plans or their uni plans.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you're right, you know, we have got an ageing demographic and we do need to see a talent pipeline coming through the sector.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: So a financial service administrator apprenticeship, which is a level three programme, would probably be my go-to to kind of test the water that somebody really wants to get into this as a career.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and the um employer does need to provide 20% of the working week of that person to kind of give them time to study and learn.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: So there is a responsibility to supervise and to encourage and provide that space.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um so it's about half a day to a day a week.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um an apprentice needs to be on a minimum of a 30-hour contract and a maximum of 40 hours at the moment.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so what we will then do is we'll provide the professional learning support, so the content, um, you know, kind of the technical pieces, but also as I touched on, these knowledge, skills, and behaviours around things like professionalism and listening and questioning and rapport building with clients and presenting and articulating data and time management and all those sorts of skills that people need in order to be able to do well in a career.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: And that program, that financial service admin level three, takes about 12 to 15 months to complete, and they'll only do one exam as that, which is their R01.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then if they do that and they've enjoyed it, they can go on and do the next level of apprenticeship thereafter.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: So there's no limit to the number of apprenticeships that you can do, it's just one at a time that people need to follow.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: So from FS Admin level three, they'll potentially then go on and do power planner level four, and then they'll do um RO2 and three and J09 if they've already done the R01.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then ultimately, if they want to go and be a fully qualified financial advisor and finish off that all the way through to R06, they could do that as well.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: And ultimately, when we start having these conversations, a lot of the kind of um owners of these practices are saying, Well, I've never actually finished my charter status.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: Can I go on apprenticeship?
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm 50 odd, but you know, it'd be nice to actually finally do that.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: And the answer is yes.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: There is no limit to the age of people coming on these programs.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: We just have to have the commitment to not just doing the exams and passing the units, but also completing the portfolio for the apprenticeship piece as well.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: So that's super important.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's really interesting, actually, because when I think of apprentices, I always think of young people coming through, like 16 years old straight from school and the traditional apprenticeship groups such as mechanic, plumber, builder, etc.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: And what you're telling me here is that the the levy that's in place can actually be accessed by anybody of any age.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't have to be somebody fresh out of say school or university or whatnot.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: So, for example, if I was an employer and I thought to myself, you know what?
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: I've hired someone recently, they came from a marketing background and they made a fantastic financial planner.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: What you're telling me is that if I could hire that person, um, put them on an apprenticeship, which then gets them qualified up to say level four, and I get the costs covered for that training, and they don't have to be your typical what you think an apprentices is, which is 16 without any experience.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: Not at all.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: And we're using apprenticeship schemes all the way through to level six for underpinning graduate programs, um, and we're doing those in wealth management as well.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: So we're doing that for MG and we work with St.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: James Place and their partners, and um, this is a really great strategy for organisations to be quite savvy about using the levy money that's there.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: So, what you're saying, really, to me as well is that I could could I could I bring somebody on as an employer, could I bring somebody into my business on this apprenticeship and put them straight into level four training to become a financial planner?
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: Or do they have to come in and start at level three as an administrator and pass each sort of segment, if you like, up to financial planner?
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: What's the route?
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's a really, really good question.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it is down to the individual to a large extent.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: So we'd look at, you know, what's their prior learning if they've been to university, if they've done a degree.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: I can't put them on a funded apprenticeship programme if they've already got a qualification in the same subject of a higher level already.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um and if we think kind of A levels is kind of around level three, level four, and degrees is kind of level five and six.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, we will look at that individual on a case-by-case basis.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: We do something called a suitability check, which is about a 30 to 45 minute appointment with the individual, and we'll go through what their career path is, what their job role is, because they need to be in a job role that's going to give them the exposure to the things that are in the apprenticeship requirements in order to be able to gather that portfolio of evidence.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: So, yes, in theory, if somebody's got the aptitude, I could put them on a financial advisor level four, they can start right at the beginning, do R01 through to R06.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: It takes kind of around about two or so years to complete that, and they're doing an exam every two to three months.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: So there's there's a bit of pace and pressure around that, as well as doing the portfolio of evidence alongside it.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: But if they're in a job role where they are actually speaking to clients and actually kind of getting to the point of advising, then yeah, I can expose them to that.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: If they're doing something which is more like a paraplanner role, I would say start there.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: And the J09 unit for those who've attempted it or done it before will know that's really quite a difficult unit to pass.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's it's three very kind of heavy-going assignments purely around poinning, but it also covers R01 to R03 as well.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: So if someone's done that, then goes on to finish the RO unit, it's quite we just shorten down the level four advisor apprenticeship and give exemption around about the first year, it it sort of is covered.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: So if I was a growing company, um small to medium enterprise um or even a large firm, it doesn't really matter, does it?
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: But if I wanted to put in place a program, if you like, from zero to hero, you know, coming coming in as an administrator all the way up to financial planner, I can do that, can I, through the apprenticeship levy?
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you absolutely can.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: You just have to provide people with that 20% off-the-job learning time.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: So we do have some clients who come to us and they want us to build that almost in-house academy to move the talent pipeline through the business, and they'll do that with levy funds.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: But we have others who say they want that same academy and they want that same route, but actually they'll pay for it commercially because they've got the money to do so, and it means that they don't then have to focus on the apprenticeship side of things and that 20% off the job commitment.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: So it just depends what your strategy is, how important the funding is compared to the time off.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and the time off isn't like when people used to go to college on a Friday anymore.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: It like I say, it's very virtual, it's very flexible, they can access recordings, but really you've got to think it's kind of for a year-long-ish program, you're going to be doing about 350 hours of learning over that period.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: Half of that will come from Davies, and the other half they need to be doing sort of self-study and um on-the-job learning that they'd be doing with their employer anyway.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: So, coaching sessions and mentoring sessions and exposure to conferences and other things as well.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: So that practical experience that comes from the employer anyway, that's what tends to happen.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: And then the extra training, the commitment the company has to put into it's 20%.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: They have to say, look, you know, if you're going to be, um if we're going to you guys are saying, look, if you're going to put anybody on this apprenticeship, if you're going to apply for the levy, then you have to be able to allow 20% for that person's learning.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's fair.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think it's fair.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: I get a lot of pushback about it, surprisingly, because you know, the small firms who are time pressured, um, but it's in there for a good reason.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you can imagine as well, we're really trying to get more women into financial planning, more diversity of talent in there.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: And if we don't have that 20% um off-the-job time ring face ring fenced in working hours, you're saying to somebody, look, I'll give you a job, I'll pay for you to do your exams, but you have to study in your own time outside of work.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: Now, if I've got caring responsibilities or whatever, that's going to limit my progress and what I can do.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: So it is fair, but it is a hard one I get as well for smaller firms to sort of ring fence that capacity, but that's the trade-off for getting the levy.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's a very old school way of thinking.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: If someone's got difficulty in allowing 20% of the time off for that individual's own personal development, they're a bit short-sighted.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: That's the whole purpose of a program such as this is to be able to upskill and get people trained up as quickly as possible.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_02: You're outsourcing the actual training and their development, you're outsourcing the structure, the infrastructure, absolutely everything.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I think a trade-off of 20% saved how much money do they save when they put these people on these apprenticeships?
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, I mean it's talking about eight and a half grand.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a pretty fair trade-off, isn't it?
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: If you look at eight and a half grand, even if that was say a 20k salary, you're looking at nearly 40% of the salary, aren't you?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not a bad trade-off.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: And what you're getting there is somebody who's committed and dedicated to their own learning.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: They're not pushing that learning to one side, which means they're developing a lot quicker within the business.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: If you're smart about it, you take on the right people, then you're gonna have some really switched-on, clever, um driven types of individuals that are gonna be part of your business and hopefully qualified a lot quicker, which is great for them as a company, but it's also great as a whole for the profession.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: So these financial planning firms that aren't investing in their staff, they're not investing in taking people on without any experience, really are essentially also not contributing to the profession that they're actually in.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I can understand that with some of the older firms, maybe some of the older guys that are running these businesses, and they're thinking about winding down in a way, are they?
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: They're thinking about exiting the industry and perhaps selling their business.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: Now, what we do come across is there's usually sometimes contingency plans in place.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: So some of these people that are looking to sell their business, perhaps exit out of it, haven't thought about just bringing on some new people, getting them trained up, and you don't have to sell it, you can still can continue to remain part of that business.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: Now, is that something that you've seen?
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: Have you got any examples of that at all?
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like I say, quite a lot, and particularly keeping it in the family is is very popular at the moment.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: And also when you're hiring at the moment, there's a COVID incentive payment as well of£3,000.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: So if you bring somebody on before the end of September 2021, there's another incentive around that.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: So actually holding on to the business, bringing that talent in, and you're still potentially going to sell it anyway, or you're going to pass it on as an inheritance to a family member.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, those are quite smart strategies and alternatives to sales and umbrella holdings as well.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so yeah, I'm a business owner.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: I've been approached a lot by people looking to get apprenticeships into my business, and there have been um incentives dangled in front of me to hire an apprentice.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: So let's just talk about some of those incentives and the financial advantages, if you like, of taking on an apprentice over taking on somebody um outside of an apprenticeship scheme.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: So, what's on offer to the employer by taking the people on and taking a chance on an apprentice?
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a really good question.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: And some people will have had their fingers burned potentially by apprenticeships in the past and not made the right hiring choice.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so it is about making sure you recruit correctly.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I know you can also help support with that.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: There is a free government website, so we will list for free for all our clients the vacancy on there with the salary details and everything.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: We get quite a good response from those.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then when the apprentice starts, let's say we'll help them set up the digital account to get the funding for the learning, we'll help them claim that COVID incentive payment if we're still in that period, and then also when they're on an apprenticeship, the employer doesn't need to pay national insurance contributions for them.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: So that's another kind of slight saving as well.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: So if they're under 19, then that 5% top-up is also waived.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: So there's quite a few different sort of incentives and things that, and sometimes these change with time, and you know, pandemic has stimulated uh the Chancellor to put more money towards these schemes, which is a positive thing.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but we can guide each individual through how they bring an apprentice in and how they set all that stuff up.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a lot less complicated.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: So sometimes the I don't know how much they get in total as an incentive then?
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: At the moment, there's a£3,000 incentive payment, which is just straight to the firm.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's nothing to we we don't get that at all.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: So Davies Learning Solutions is funded by the apprenticeship levy money.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um and at the moment, that's a£9,000 claim that we will make for say a PowerPlanner level four program or a financial advisor level four programme is£9,000.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: So the employer, if they're non-levy, will contribute£450-ish of that, depending on the age of the apprentice, but no more than that.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then the rest of it we draw down out of that levy pot month by month for each month that that learner is on programme with us until we get them through to the completion date.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: So that's how we're funded.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that 5% contribution comes directly to us up front.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: And unfortunately, if the person leaves or drops out, the employer won't get that back.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: But in getting people to completion, when we get them there, we have a hundred percent um completion rate and 94% first-time pass rate on our apprenticeships as well.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: So 70% of all our learners achieve distinction as well, which is really positive.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's massively down.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: I can't take any credit for that, that's down to our tutors and coaches in the business.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: We have about 60 staff employed full-time by us to deliver these programmes, and they've all worked in industry.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: So they've all got financial services career background before they switch over to tutoring and coaching, which really gives that credibility and context when they're either delivering virtual classroom training or taking people through exam prep or you know doing one-to-one coaching to help them develop their skills in real life situations.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: So that works really well too.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so we're talking the practical skills, we're talking the soft skills, uh, more importantly as well, but um the theory around the actual exams themselves, the study, you know, the study theory of what to pass those exams.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: Now, that's obviously very important, and um, any kind of uh help towards that outside of on-the-job work is is obviously going to be beneficial to that individual's personal development and obviously the growth of the company as well.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: Now, what about the qualifications themselves, then?
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_02: Because you know, you've got three qualifications out there.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: I always get asked, Sam, Sam, what's the best qualification route for me to go down?
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and there's obviously three.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: You've got the CISI, you've got the CII, you've got the L IBF.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_02: There's three main ones that are out there.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: So when it comes to an apprenticeship, which qualification is it that you guys use?
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so there is a website which is the Institute of Apprenticeships, and they set which standards exist.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: And as I say, there's 753 standards, and that is everything out there from hairdressing to financial advisor.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and they mandate what the qualification options are within a program.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: So you're right, with some of the programs, you can choose different awarding bodies, different routes, different units within that.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um at Davies Learning Solutions, we work with all three of those, but we do work very closely with the CII in particular on financial planning.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: So that's where those three programmes I've touched on, which form our financial planning academy, we will use the CII to take people through those units.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: But if we're talking about using financial services professional level Sticks as part of a graduate scheme, like we're doing with M and G, and then we will probably use something more wealth management and investment focused.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: We also do programs in one-off programmes, things like mortgage advisor, workplace pensions, and then again we'll use different bodies for the different qualifications with those as well, depending on what they are looking for and what's mandated as choices by the Institute of Apprenticeships.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: What we've been talking about here really is new, new, new, haven't we?
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_02: We've been talking about bringing new people in, but there's a huge amount of people probably sitting in financial planning firms that are being that are under skilled, not being used, and probably not being put forward for much training or development, again, because those firms are quite small and the infrastructure isn't in place to do it.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_02: So what we're saying here, it's not about just taking on a new person.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: This is open to anybody else that's within the businesses as well that want to progress their study.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: Is that right?
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely right.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: You can use it for existing staff, or you can use it for new hires.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: The COVID incentive payment is for new hires in this COVID period, but that doesn't mean you can't still use it for existing staff and claim that the 95 to 100% worth of funding for their qualifications and exams.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what is really important to me about getting this message out there because at the moment I'm doing it, you know, quite ad hoc and having one-to-one conversations.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: And when people hear about it, suddenly they'll they'll put people on programmes, and that's really beneficial for the firm and for the individual.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I just want more people to know that that's available as an option.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: Do you find that when you talk to these financial planning firms, directors of the firms, that they even know about this?
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: Do they do they have a clue that this sort of um support, levy, training development is actually at their fingertips?
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: Not very often, no.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm starting, I sort of start from scratch and explain everything.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I'm doing that sort of day in and day out.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just that's why I thought it would be great if we had this chat and try and get this message out there because you know that that funding is there for using.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it would be a shame to let it go to waste.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: And like I say, especially when we're seeing in the sector this this aging sort of demographic, and we want more women coming in, and we want younger people coming in, and then this is a great way to do that and to make sure that those exit strategies are really robust with the staff who may already be in there, but like say haven't had the time or the opportunity or the funding to actually finish all of their exams.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes I think when I use the word apprentice, it can sometimes feel a bit negative.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: It can feel a little bit undervalued.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I'm an apprentice, I don't want to be an apprentice.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: That's not I want to be, I want to be a trainee financial advisor.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there isn't any kind of rule that the company that are implementing this training or hiring these trainee financial planners or trainee points or trainee administrators, there's no rule to say that they have to call it an apprenticeship, is it?
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: No, and I wrote an article actually in February because there's National Apprenticeship Week every February, and this year I wrote one called Don't Mention the A-word.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: Because it really does still unfortunately have that stigma that it's for low-paid, you know, young people and trades.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but actually, you can do an MBA on an apprenticeship, and you're quite right, you can use it within your business without really ever referring to it.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: You do not have to downgrade their job title or downgrade their pay to the apprenticeship minimum wage, and it really is a framework for delivering learning and development through a levy funded pot, and that's probably the easiest way to sort of look at it.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: Now, if I was a financial planning firm and I was going to implement something like this, I'd want to know that there's longevity in it.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: How long is this going to be around for?
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's a really good question because when we look at 2021 and the skills for jobs strategy, the white paper that was published in January, this is increasingly rather than decreasingly part of the government's strategy for talent and skills in the UK.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: And we're seeing obviously universities really struggling to deliver through the pandemic.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: The fees and the costs associated with going to university just keep going up and up, and the accessibility of learning and through apprenticeships is really, really strong, and especially now we've had the biggest beta test of digital delivery that we could have ever anticipated.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think you know there is no provision.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I can't I'm not in the government, I can't plan what they're going to do next.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: But listening to the Education Secretary and the Prime Minister, they're really behind apprenticeships, is a key part of the skills for job strategy at the whole of the UK.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: It is limited slightly around regions and countries as well.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I'm only able to deliver under the apprenticeship levy within England.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: So if people listening are in Scotland or Ireland or Wales, you'll need to look to providers in your own country, and that's down to how apprenticeships are regulated.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: So in England, we're under Offset and the Education and Skills Funding Agency, and in Scotland, it's um Skills Development Scotland that you would be under.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: So it's different for different areas.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: But we're seeing again in the stage, Joe Biden's administration has just massively communicated a big backing around apprenticeships in a similar way that we've been doing here.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't see it disappearing anytime soon.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: And what would your message be to those that are looking for an apprenticeship as opposed to the firms that are offering apprenticeships?
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: So I get approached by so many people that want to become financial planners but struggle to say get into the profession.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: Have you got any advice to those types of people at all about how perhaps they can position this or um ideas of what they can do to help get themselves in with other financial planning firms?
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think you know, proactive approaching of the firms and volunteering themselves to those firms is one way to do it.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: As I mentioned, we we list all our vacancies that come through our employers on the free government website for apprenticeships.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: If you just Google that, you'll find that.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then, as you say, through yourself and then kind of approaching firms with that willingness to say, look, I'm willing to put my time and effort into passing my exams and doing an apprenticeship programme if you'll just give me that opportunity.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: And some of our clients will put people on a probation for three months or six months, and then when they've completed that successfully, then they'll roll them onto the apprenticeship programme.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: And they might start them off on quite a low wage, and as long as it hits the minimum requirement for the apprenticeship wage, that's that's up to them.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: But then what they'll do is they'll increase that by increments every time they pass a unit.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: So you can put them on this kind of career development pathway and reward them for passing exams as well.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, another reason why I think sometimes apprenticeships can sometimes be negative is because of the fact that sometimes employers almost treat it as a bit of cheap labour, a way to get people to come in, do data entry work and give them a qualification on the side and they feel that's a fair trade-off.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: I don't.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's actually taking the piss.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_02: So is there a minimum salary expectation?
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: Is there a minimum sort of salary that they have to be offering a new apprentice?
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so if you have a look at the government website, the latest figures are always published on there and it does vary according to age banding as well.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think you know that is just set for all apprentices across the piece.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: So it's very different, you know, no disrespect, but you know, working in a trade or in a hairdressing salon compared to working with people's finances.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so I wouldn't usually advise my clients to be following the same format as the apprenticeship minimum wage.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: Let's think about what we think is right for the profession, for young talent.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: And again, it's different between school leavers, college leavers, graduates, and or young people who've worked in other roles and then they're coming into the industry for the first time in their early 20s, and but they've got that bit more maturity, you could probably put them in front of a client sooner.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's it's kind of on an individual basis, and it's also massively influenced, as we know, by region.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_02: I think I would warn any employer that felt that they could put um an individual on a lower salary over like a year or two years, because as soon as that person gets that relevant experience, that's actually the most powerful thing on the CV.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_02: So if someone's got a year working as an IFA administrator, for example, but they've only passed one qualification, or maybe they've if passed none, they're on an 18K basic, they could easily walk out the back door and get a 23K basic with somebody else who'll go, Whoa, you've got a year's experience.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, come on board.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: Now, that's one thing I would say to an employer is don't use this as a cheeky way to get cheap labor in because it, you know, you need to be hiring the right person and then wrapping around them an amazing training program that invests in that person, keeps them happy, keeps them motivated, feeds their ambition.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_02: So they are grateful and they are happy to be a part of your business, but also they can look to the left, they can look to the right, and there might be some other people that are on it that are doing well as well.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: And um that keeps them motivated.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: And also, good news travels well, doesn't it?
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: If some people within that firm feel they're being looked after, training and development is being taken care of, 20% of the time is being given up to do that.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I mean, that's a great recruitment tool in its own right for any future experienced or inexperienced staff to come along and join that company because bad news travels fast as well, especially in the recruitment world.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if we get hold of the fact that one company is not doing an incredible job by their staff, you know, it's quite easy to spread that message.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know what I mean?
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's a great way, like say, of building that loyalty and that engagement with somebody.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it's about thinking of it as a talent pipeline, you know, through your business and home growing your own talent in a way that to deal with your customers the way that you want them to be dealt with, and rather than bringing in practices and processes from other firms that don't fit what you want to do.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: So you're teaching them how you want it from day one, which works really well.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: Just on a final note then, what what bit of advice would you give?
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: Let's be kind and considerate now to the employer.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not all roses and you know, rainbows sometimes.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_02: I've gone through it myself, taking on apprentices, and none of them are here anymore, by the way.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_02: But they did last a little while.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so it's not all rainbows, it's not all, you know, sunshine.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_02: So, what bits of advice might you give an employer just to preempt to make sure they're making the right decision going down the route of working on, you know, incorporating an apprenticeship and training programme?
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I would say with the financial planning sector, you know, a little bit more maturity, I wouldn't be in sort of looking at the school levers 16, 17, I'd be looking at 18 and upwards.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: Salary that we've talked about is already another really good element to make sure that person stays motivated and committed to the role and being really robust in what it is that you're looking for and sticking to that in the recruitment process.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: Any apprenticeship, really in financial planning, I would want them to have a math GCSE grade C or above.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: And if they didn't have that, it's not a blocker.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: We can help them do the functional skills that they need to do, but I think it is a good indication of their aptitude for numbers.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so, unless there's a really good reason, and sometimes there is why they didn't get that, um I think you know that's again another way to sort of filter out and maybe do some almost mini assessment centre exercises as well and give them those probations and trials because it is that reliability that you need in a young person and not calling in because they've got hangover or anything else, but also looking at your existing staff and how you can use the levy to give them more responsibility and opportunity.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: And a great opportunity, I suppose, for thinking companies is look, if you've got an apprenticeship or a training program in place that offers a clear route into financial planning for younger, younger people, it could be 18 plus, so people finishing their A levels, it could be people finishing university.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: More and more people are choosing not to go to university.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_02: But what you can do with that is you can then start to build relationships with the local universities.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_02: You can start building relationships with the local schools, you can go in and you can do discussions, well-being discussions around financial planning, what financial planning actually is, and start to educate these youngsters not only about the importance of your own personal financial planning, but what the career, the profession offers a youngster for 30, 40 years of their life and why perhaps they should consider it.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: Because there's loads of really talented, you know, squished on individuals in these schools now, very entrepreneurial thinkers.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_02: And they're getting more and more savvy around finance, but they're learning it from YouTube, aren't they?
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_02: So it gives that great opportunity for a financial planning firm to really establish themselves, to give back to the community, to give back to the next generation.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: And that in its own right is fantastic marketing that's PR-worthy, newspapers, magazines, whatnot, websites.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that would have a huge impact in raising the profile of a financial planning firm within any area, wouldn't it?
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: And we're seeing our apprentices get involved with that as well.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: So when they've finished and passed their exams, they're going and volunteering to speak to schools, local groups, and actually educate young people about the career opportunity that's available for them in that sector and just spark a bit of that interest, which is really good, especially in some of the more deprived areas and diverse cultural areas that previously we haven't really recruited from as a sector very well.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_02: That's a very good point, actually.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: And we're talking about diversity.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, attracting more females in financial planning is one.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so we obviously want to do that.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's something that we need to do, but also it's just different, different ethnicities, different different cultures, different backgrounds, different demographics.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_02: We need these types of people coming into financial planning to create that diversity.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: And um I love the idea of people going into schools and uh and and educating people around the profession itself because you know there needs to be better representing across all types of people, doesn't it?
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, we've seen in the pandemic about a third of the population have been seeking financial advice.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um so we need to make that relatable, you know, to everybody.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: We're seeing women have a bigger share of wealth as well going forward as they're getting kind of you know more opportunities in their careers, their lifespans are longer, they're inheriting more.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so being able to talk to a woman, you know, if you've been through a divorce or something like that, it can be really reassuring to have somebody giving you advice who is more like you.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: Beautiful.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: Carolyn, thank you so much for joining me today and sharing what you do, um, the apprenticeship, and how this can benefit um both companies and the future employees, the next generation of financial planning.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_02: Really appreciate your time.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much for having me, Sam.