Latest / Wrongful Conviction Podcasts / 534: #534 Ben Bowlin with Robert Johnson
Transcript
- 00:00:02 Speaker 1: On the night of April fourteenth, nineteen ninety six, a home invasion on Chicago's South Side left twenty four year old Eddie J. Binyon fatally shot. The shooter wore a mask, but not all of the assailants did. Soon one identification led to an interrogation and three more names, one of whom was Robert Johnson. But it appears that violence and threatening teenagers with eighty years in prison might not lead to the most reliable information. This is wrongful Conviction. 00:00:44 Speaker 2: You're listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts one week early and ad free by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. 00:01:02 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction. It's Ben Bollen. I'm back to cover a few more cases for Jason. This one takes us to an unfortunately familiar place, Chicago, Illinois. Joining us from the Exoneration Project to help tell this story. Lauren Myers Koff Mueller. Welcome back, Lord, thanks for having us, and of course us here includes the man himself, Robert Johnson. Robert, thank you so much for joining us. 00:01:28 Speaker 3: My pleasure. 00:01:29 Speaker 1: So Robert, let's start with where you grew up. 00:01:33 Speaker 3: Yeah, Inglewood, Chicago, like south Side on fifty seven and Aperdeen. The neighborhood was a little messed up. I think that's when the drug epidemic really hit ard. It was a bad area, but it was still okay, Like I was still able to enjoy myself. Me and my brother, we were living with a great aunt and my name was Mae Jones. She stood in for my mother and basically raised us like we were her own and she took care of me from the age two to ten. Then she passed away. Then I went to stay with my grandmother. You know, I remember have very fond memories growing up. I remember one thing that I used to love, like during Christmas time. My grandfather used to take us to Ford City. We used to ride past all the houses with they decorations and stuff up, like I just remember that in my mind. I used to love to do it, like every year. I mean, you had people that really went forward. It was like they was in competition something, it was like, but it was real nice. 00:02:41 Speaker 4: Well and you haven't been out for Christmas. 00:02:43 Speaker 3: Yet, so I'm not you know, I haven't even thought that far, but yeah, that's something I definitely would like to do. 00:02:51 Speaker 1: Having been released in February of twenty twenty five, at the time of this recording, Robert is still experiencing a lot of first having meant more than twenty eight years wrongfully incarcerated at the hands of at least two detectives who had previously worked under John Burge, the notorious detective commander that ran a torture operation out of Chicago's Area two and three. These men were also involved in cases that will link in the episode description, like Marcus Wiggins. By the time of Robert's case, Marcus's mother had already won a civil suit regarding her son's torture that left him with a stutter, So the word was certainly getting around at this time. But kids in Robert's neighborhood already knew. 00:03:35 Speaker 3: I mean, they really thought that they can do anything to someone like I remember one time I walked out my house, I walked three blocks. By the time I got to the third block, I had been stopped, paded down, and strip searched three times, made to pull my pants down so they can see if I had something in my draws. It's really a blessing that technology has changed and people are able to like just record stuff and get it on camera, but back then they didn't have it. And I mean, it was just notorious in the neighborhood and they really thought that they was not only the law above the law. 00:04:15 Speaker 1: Did you ever hear about police torturing people around this time? 00:04:20 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a known fact, like already, like if the police grabbed you, you getn't beat. 00:04:26 Speaker 4: It was known maybe in the neighborhoods. But judges were ignoring it and or not believing it, and juries certainly were not believing it. Defense counsel it kind of depended, but typically they said, we're not bringing that up a trial because no what will believe you. 00:04:44 Speaker 1: So we need to remember the context of what's occurring here. This is the late stage of the crack epidemic era. It's a dire social issue, and it leads to the election of a ton of so called tough on crime politicians. These are folks who gave pretty much unlimited leeway to law enforcement, but this didn't really lead to safer streets. The victim in this case was Robert's close friend Eddie J. 00:05:09 Speaker 3: Benyon. Yeah, Eddie Benyon Jay, he was my friend. We used to hang out. It was even one time that I ran away from home and he let me sleep in his house. No, I ran away from home because you know, I was mischiedious or whatever. You know. My grandfather was like, you're gonna come in at this time, and I was like, I ain't granddad, you want me to come in at eight o'clock. Like that's when everything started. Like I'm sixteen years old or fifteen years old, like, so I last out and ran away, but he let me stay at his house a couple of days. And I'm sadden. I was sadden when this happened to him. But I didn't even get a chance to even really process the situation because two days later, less than two days later, I was arrested or kidnapped rather. 00:05:57 Speaker 1: And the night in question was April fourteenth, ninety six. This is around ten thirty or eleven pm. This was after Robert's curfew. Other than a short errand for his grandmother, He's at home for the night. But Robert knew the guys who were involved twenty year old Jimmy Slaughter, seventeen year old Willy Doherty, fifteen year old Fernando Gilbert, and a fourth assailant. 00:06:20 Speaker 3: I was real tight with Jimmy Slaughter, but we all was cool. The only person that I wasn't really cool with was Willy Doherty. I had only known him for maybe two months at the most. So on the night of the crime, my grandmother sent me to Leon's, a like food joint, because she was hungry. We both was angry, and then she sent me to go and get some bread and a pop. On my way to this store, I sink them. They walked past me and they went their way and I went my way. 00:06:50 Speaker 4: So there was this group of guys who had this idea to rob j Binyon because he was selling drugs. A few of them had guns, a couple of them wore masks, and the idea was that initially Jimmy Slaughter, he also knew Jay, so he would go in and then he would let the other people in. There were a number of other people in the house, including Jay's girlfriend, and you know, they're basically all corralled into the back of the house while this search was undertaken for the drugs and the money. The problem was that there, I guess wasn't as much money or drugs as was expected. 00:07:33 Speaker 1: And the fourth assailant, the one who was masked. They shot Jay Binyon in the back of the head without one a care in the world for this young man's life, but two that half of his crew, namely Jimmy Slaughter, were not wearing masks and were in view of the people they knew from the neighborhood, like the victim's girlfriend, Shawna Wilkins. 00:07:53 Speaker 4: Right, Shawna knew who he was. They called nine one one, and initially Jimmy is treated as put up atually a witness because they didn't necessarily know that he let these guys in on purpose. And during their interrogation of Jimmy, he has now testified that he was abused, choked, and hit, and they get names out of him, and then they go and pick up these other guys, Willie Doherty and Fernando Gilbert, and at that point, you know, they're playing people off of each other and saying, well, this is what other people are saying. They're already saying it's Robert and Willie. He was I think seventeen at the time, and they also abuse him and threaten him, and so he went along with that. 00:08:40 Speaker 1: Now it appears that it was some mix of Robert's known association with Jimmy Slaughter that brought him to suspicion and the other suspects, Gilbert and Doherty both looking to save themselves from lengthy prison terms, as well as to avoid being labeled snitches for naming that fourth assailant who was not named first by the police. And so with all this, it appears to have been a convergence of various agendas that ultimately led to Robert being pegged as the mask shooter. 00:09:10 Speaker 3: The fifteenth, when I came home from school, my grandma told me that the police had called there and wanted to talk to me about a conversation that I allegedly heard. She was like, you know, call him back, But you know, I never called him because I'm not calling the police based on my experience with him. I want to be as farther away from as possible. And then I want to say, between two to three o'clock in the morning, the phone ringed and the doorbell ringed at the same time. My grandma went to the door, and I heard the master or was out there, and she told him, yeah, you can talk to him, but not right now. I'm not going to let y'all talk to him at no. Three o'clock in the morning. So Detective O'Brien, I know his voice because he also testified at my trial and he was the one that I had the most inaction with. I heard him say, if you don't let us in, we're gonna kick the door in. And I heard my grandma say, well, kick it in, but I ain't letting y'all talk to him. I'm not opening this door. And then I heard a slam up against the door. I guess they were trying to intimidate her or whatever they was trying to do, and my grandma came back in. You know, I doze back off for maybe an hour, because they came right back. They rang the bell that time, and I haven't did anything, so I was just like, you know, let him in. So initially they told my grandma that we just want to talk to him. We're not taking him nowhere. We just want to ask him a couple of questions. We're gonna do that here if it's okay with you. My grandma said, okay, she let him in. They came in. It was about seven or eight of them. We sat down in my living room. My grandmother got up to go to the bathroom, and Detective O'Brien said to me, get up right now, let's go. They didn't even tell me I was under arrest. They just was like, let's go now. They didn't tell my grandma they was taking me or anything. I said, Grandma, I'm gone, and I found out later on she didn't even hear me, so. 00:11:15 Speaker 1: She must have come back from the bathroom and then. 00:11:19 Speaker 3: And I was gone, just gone. I was gone. People find it hard to believe or understand why an individual will confess to a crime that he wouldn't do. I personally know why a person would do that, because I was so afraid that another ten more hours I might have would have said something that I didn't do. Don't be so stern. Would you say, well, I know I wouldn't confess to a crown that I wouldn't do. No, you say that because you have never been inside of one of them interrogation rooms. That's the reason why I'm not mad at Willie Duwherty Shimmy slaughter Often that no guilty because it is pressure and it's like, how do I help myself? That's the only thing you're thinking about survive? How so I mean, I kept on telling them that I wasn't involved, and they just wouldn't listen to me. They was all in my face, screaming and hollering and talking about we know you had something to do with this. Your co defended is saying it's you that you killed Jay. You better tell us something or you're going to spend the rest of your life in prison. But I just kept on telling them, no, I had to do with this. You know, I never wanted to say anybody's name, because you know where I come from, that's frowned upon and you can be killed. But as they began to show me all types of statements and stuff, it seemed like that they are really trying to penness on me. So I said what I thought was going to shed some light on the individual that was involved, Like he was me. I seen these individuals together that night. You know, they looked at me like what else? 00:13:34 Speaker 1: But he never said anything else, just the names of the four guys that he had seen walking together that night, three of whom had already given statements and one of whom Willie Doherty, had repeated what the police had said that Robert was the fourth assailant. 00:13:52 Speaker 3: At some point I was charged with first degree murder on Robert and the only days and like I say, another five more hours and no telling what I would have see it. My bond was like five hundred thousand and something like that, fifty to walk. You know, my family not that type of money. So I was in custody at the duration of Montreal. 00:14:14 Speaker 1: In the meantime, the three other guys are looking for the best deal, right. 00:14:17 Speaker 4: So all of them filed motions to suppress their statements, alleging different levels of mistreatment or abuse. But the big thing that happened was with Willie Doherty, who was seventeen years old, terrified had been abused by the police and forced to falsely implicate Robert. To begin with, he filed his own motion to suppress his statement, which then was withdrawn when his lawyer came to him with this offer, which was fifteen years at fifty percent, so seven and a half years for a murder in Chicago if he would testify against Robert, and if he didn't do that, he was looking at eighty years, which is where Robert ended up getting. And so he was told, you know, it's either you or him, like he'll take this and testify against you and walk free in seven and a half years, or that's what you could do. So Willy thought that it was kind of his only chance at a life. So he ends up accepting that. And the other guys they did not testify against Robert, but they were allowed to make that same deal. You know. They were like, well, Robert's going down anyway, let's just save ourselves. 00:15:30 Speaker 1: Robert's trial began a little over a year later, This is on May thirteenth, nineteen ninety seven, and as Robert mentioned, Detective O'Brien testified, but the substance of his testimony appeared to do little more than a firm in the record that he had done everything by the book. 00:15:48 Speaker 3: Detective O'Brien say, he came there to arrest me and told my grandma that I was under arrest and that if she wanted to she can accompany me. Then he said that my grandma declined. 00:16:03 Speaker 1: And at this point, you were sixteen. 00:16:06 Speaker 3: Sixteen, not any ration, no person, no a grandmother like grandmothers don't play about they grand suos in now for real, it ain't no way that she would have declined to come with me. 00:16:19 Speaker 1: And perhaps the subtext there was even this kid's grandmother doesn't think he's innocent. However, that is undercut by one of the state's only eye witnesses, Shawanna Wilkins, the victim's girlfriend. We mentioned earlier. She had an obvious interest in getting the right person, and she testified to Robert's innocence. 00:16:39 Speaker 4: The girlfriend who witnessed everything testified she did not see Robert there. She knew Robert because, as Robert said, he was friends with Jay, and he'd been around, and she said the same thing, Knewes's voice, did not recognize his voice or him as one of the perpetrators. Jay's sister also testified that Robert was very close friends with her brother. 00:17:00 Speaker 3: She was only able to testify to us being close friends when my attorney tried to ask her, did you believe that Robert was involved? I believe she answered the question no, But I think the judge told the jury to disregard it. But the fact that she got up there and testified, I think should have helped. But it didn't. 00:17:27 Speaker 1: So it appears that the state star witness, Willie Doherty, was enough to convince the jury. 00:17:32 Speaker 4: That's the only evidence against it, and yet he was still convicted. Because back then, in the nineties and it's still a lot of the time today, but especially then, if someone's sitting in the defendant's chair, the jury assumes they did it because to get to that point, the prosecution, the police believe you did it, so you must have done it, or at least done something. 00:17:52 Speaker 3: But a part of me was like, you mean to tell me that one person out of twelve people can't say wait a minute, hold on, here is a guy that's taking a pleat deal. We know that he was involved because he's saying he was involved, and he's being off of this deal and he's going to walk up out of here because we had already been there for about a year and a half, so he was going to go home in less than six years versus him getting eighty years, and it's the only thing they got here. I just would have thought it was somebody that would have been like, wait a minute, I don't believe this. I'm not convicting this keyd because that's what I was. 00:18:29 Speaker 4: So Robert had the fifty five years on the first degree murder and then twenty five years on the arm robbery and the home invasion. Those two were concurrent, so it added up to eighty years. 00:18:42 Speaker 3: When the guilty verdict came in, I pit my fist in my mouth and I just bit down on it as hard as I could to somewhat compose myself. I began crying. I had a public defender. His name was Bob Gaultra. I remember he put his hand on my shoulder. And while it may have been a simple gesture, in that moment, I needed that actually was shipped to stay there a seventeen year. That place is a nightmare, and it's you know, grown me in here. You immediately know that my childhood that's over with. Ain't no more child, Ain't no more am a kid. You have to grow up fast, Ain't no games, ain't no playing. You need to learn how to survive quick, what to do, what not to do? You need to understand all this or lose your life. My mind couldn't accept the fact that I was about to spend eighty years of my life under these conditions. But I mean, it's hell being there for something you did do, But to wake up every day knowing that you didn't have nothing to do with this, that is I don't even I don't even know the word for that. And I seriously contemplated taking my life, like I was really close. I remember times, and I went through this for a few years, Like I'd hear a phone ring and be like, oh, well, maybe that's them calling to say, yeah, he ain't had nothing to do with that. Y'all got the wrong guy like that. Let him out. We made a mistake, but you know, the call that never came. My family was a real big support system for me, My grandmother, my cousin. At the time, I had a brother that was also in prison as well. I didn't know that day I had a brother that was incocerated. They allowed us to correspond with each other, and he sent me different letters and was encouraging me. 00:21:19 Speaker 1: Robert's brother encouraged him to learn the law, which was even more difficult for him than we usually hear. 00:21:25 Speaker 3: When I first went to prison, I could barely read. I remember when I first began to read the law. It was like it was a whole other language, you know. But I had some guys around me that helped me instead me in the right direction. Actually it was this older individual named James Edwards. He was actually wrongfully convicted as well. He was later exonerated as well. He helped me file my poaching viction. 00:21:51 Speaker 1: Thankfully, Robert's co defendants began to come clean, first Jimmy Slaughter in two thousand and one, and then Willie Doherty inand and in three, both of whom stated that Robert was in no way involved. 00:22:04 Speaker 4: So he did a pro say filing in two thousand and nine, which is basically the same pleading that eventually got him released in twenty twenty five. So the way that it works in Illinois is you don't have a right to counsel for post conviction. In Illinois, there's a statutory right to counsel if your post conviction gets past the first stage, but you have to raise enough evidence to get there without a lawyer. So it's this bar already that people have. But Robert's case did get to the second stage, and so then he had a lawyer who filed an amended petition raising the same claims that was in twenty fourteen, and this lawyer had an updated affidavit from Jimmy Slaughter, but the judge dismissed the petition at the second stage. 00:22:53 Speaker 1: Which is pretty wild considering that the only witness who said he was the shooter Willie Doherty was now literally saying that Robert was not involved at all, which was then corroborated by Jimmy Slaughter as well. And if you're going to say that now he's not credible, then when was he ever credible? Yet still, this judge ruled in twenty seventeen that the evidence of actual innocence, which was the recantation of the state's sole inculpatory witness, was somehow insufficient, which. 00:23:25 Speaker 4: What more do you want? 00:23:26 Speaker 3: Right? 00:23:27 Speaker 4: It's not every case, especially now, has DNA or something that is a smoking gun. Most cases have eyewitness misidentification, which they didn't even have that here because the eyewitness that it wasn't Robert that was appealed. So I think it was in twenty eighteen that Alison Flowers, an investigative journalist she had been looking into Robert's case, had written an article. It was The Invisible Institute. It was published in the Daily Beast, just doing fantastic work covering different witnesses, talking to different people, covering some of the misconduct and the case. And so she came to me and I took a look, and we waited for that decision, and the appellate court remanded for the evident Jerry Hearing saying basically that there was so little evidence against Robert to begin with, that these witnesses would make a difference. You know, if they're credible, you need to at least listen to these people and see what they have to say. 00:24:25 Speaker 1: That was all in twenty twenty, and Lauren and the Exoneration Project began their reinvestigation to develop more evidence. 00:24:33 Speaker 4: It was difficult to investigate and interview people in heavy COVID times, but eventually we were able to talk to a bunch of different people. Willy Doherty was the hardest one to get in touch with. We eventually did. I mean understandably. Jimmy Slaughter also felt very bad about what had happened, but Willy was really devastated by having testified falsely against Robert. And Robert has already said that he doesn't blame them because he was in the same situation. He understands better than anyone else why Willy took that deal and why he did what he did. 00:25:12 Speaker 1: In addition, Lauren and another attorney with the Exoneration Project began Richardson developed pattern and practice evidence, much of which had become available from other cases in which detectives O'Brien and Moser had been exposed for the same kind of misconduct, and they were finally ready to supplement the petition in late twenty twenty three. They had the hearing in twenty twenty four, by which time Jimmy Slaughter and Willie Doherty had come clean with the fourth assailant, the same guy who Robert had said he'd seen walking with the group that night, Tremaine Taylor. 00:25:49 Speaker 4: So Tremaine is deceased now he was killed in I think it was twenty eighteen. We're not able to talk to him. But Willie Doherty to fight at our hearing, admitted his own involvement and identified the other participants as Slaughter, Gilbert, and Taylor. He said that Tremaine had the gun, Robert wasn't there, wasn't involved at all, and that he basically fled as soon as it started to get questionable. That you know, he didn't think anyone was going to get hurt, is what he had said. And Jimmy Slaughter also admitted his own involvement and identified the other perpetrators as Doherty, Gilbert, and Taylor. Also said Tremaine had the gun and that Robert wasn't involved at all, wasn't even there. And then there were a number of people who came forward to say that Tremaine confessed to them at different points, so either right after it happened or a few years down the line, including his best friend, his own brothers. You know, his mom has spoken to different people, including journalists, and her belief and understanding is that her son did it. So we had the hearing in the fall, and the judge took it under advisement basically and was reviewing everything and was going to come back with her ruling in February, which was vacating Robert's conviction. 00:27:17 Speaker 3: And I was just like, man, I heard my family back there hollering, which they're not supposed to do. Yeah, the George immediately got on them like, hey, don't do that anything. 00:27:27 Speaker 1: I mean, if there is ever a time to yell or whistle or whatever, this has gotta be one of those times. This is February nineteen, twenty twenty five. 00:27:37 Speaker 3: Yeah, that is a memory that I relive over and over again. 00:27:43 Speaker 2: Like. 00:27:45 Speaker 3: I just act really can't even describe it. It was like a dream, like it was something that I waited for so long that I prayed for. That I fought for something that I thought wasn't even to happen at some point, you know. 00:28:02 Speaker 4: So the judge granted him bond and he then walked out. 00:28:06 Speaker 3: That next day, first I had went back to my grandmother's house. My grandma said, I want you to walk through the door, because she kept on saying every time that I talked to her in prison, I just want to see you walk through that door. 00:28:20 Speaker 4: And she lived at the same house right she did. 00:28:23 Speaker 3: That was another surreal moment walking back into that house after twenty eight years and ten months. They didn't even look the same, but it was on. So I ended up walking through the door and she was like, everybody, get it pitched while you walking into the door. So I ended up walking in the door before somebody was able to take fits it. So she told me, no, you go back out, walk back out. I had to walk back out and walk back in, and everybody took pictures of me and walking in, and we talked for a brief moment and I say, well, look, Grandma, the first thing I need to do is I need to jump in the tub. That's the first thing I want to do in the bathtub. 00:29:01 Speaker 4: And then soon thereafter you got to be there for her ninety third birthday. 00:29:06 Speaker 3: You know, I love telling this one particular story about her ninety third birthday. So every year my grandma while I was in prison, they asked her what is your wish? And every year it has been to see my grandson come home. And they asked her again and she said, I ain't got no wish. This year, my wish is standing next to me. I got what I wished for. That's what we both both wish for. 00:29:35 Speaker 4: You know, I love it. Yeah, it makes me cry. Then it was I think it's like a month later that we had the date for the state to decide are we appealing, are we moving forward with the trial, et cetera. And they came in and they dropped all the charges. 00:29:53 Speaker 1: It's not like they had any evidence to present, and so it was. 00:29:56 Speaker 4: Like the day after that, I think, right that you got to leave for the Innocent Network conference in Seattle. 00:30:03 Speaker 3: Yeah. I probably had the best time of my life there. It was so much love and support in Karateie, just a lot of people that was understood my feelings and my thoughts, and a lot of compassionate people as well. That didn't go through what we went through, but they was outraged by people being wrongfully convicted and spending twenty and thirty years of their life in prison. 00:30:29 Speaker 1: And our crew here at wrongful conviction. We never miss it. In fact, next year it'll be in Chicago and we're all looking forward to it. And if anybody listening wants to help Robert get back on his feet, his GoFundMe is linked here in the episode description, so please give if you can. And with that we go to our clothes. We want to give the last word to Lauren and Robert Souren. How about we start with you. What do we want people to take away from this story? 00:31:00 Speaker 4: Particular, people who I've met who have gone through this and people who have been wrongly convicted are some of just the most amazing people that you could ever meet, Just the strongest, kindest, most grateful people. And Robert even tops all of that. I mean, he's just always been such a sweet person, so thoughtful, always asking after my kids and my family and concerned about how I'm doing when he's going through the worst possible thing anyone can go through. And I'm just so like I said, lucky to know Robert lucky that I got to work on his case, that I got to be one of the ones to bring the truth to light. And I'm grateful that I get to watch everything that he's going to do. He already has a job that he's really enjoying, and he's spreading the word about wrongful convictions, and I just feel so blessed to be even a small part of the story. Worry that is Robert Johnson. 00:32:02 Speaker 3: Just a few people that I would like to just wholeheartedly thank them, because without them, I wouldn't be sitting right here. James Edwards, they helped me file my post in fiction, adolphful Davis, who introduced me to a journalist. Her name is Elise. She talked to Alison Flowers, I want to think at least and Alison Flowers as well, who brought my case to Lauren and Meghan. There is no words that I can express how thankful I am, how much I appreciate y'all. And I want to thank Natasha Tyler because she fought hard for me, but I'll never forget that ever, and last but not least, my family as well. What I would want people to take from this is that if you're on one of them. Jurors. Don't just assume that a person that's sitting at that. 00:32:55 Speaker 5: Table is guilty because the police said he did it, or the prosecutor says he did it, but he listen to the evidence. Because there are people in prison for crime that they did not commit. It is my understanding that Chicago is leading the nation and Wrong for Convictions right now. I just want people to bear in mind that these things happen a lot, and we need to do something to stop if I'm happening, And I do have one thing I would like to say for the man of the woman that's now in prison for a crime. 00:33:31 Speaker 3: That they didn't commit. Keep your hope. Don't let them take that from you. Keep on fighting. It took me twenty eight years and ten months. Don't never give up. I can almost bet you something will happen. 00:33:49 Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to Wrong for Conviction. You can listen to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts one week early and ad free by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Thank our production team, Connor Hall and Kathleen Fink, as well as my fellow executive producers Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wartis, and Jeff Cleiber. The music in this production was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us across all social media platforms at Lava for Good and at Wrongful Conviction. You can also follow me on Instagram at It's Jason Flamm. Wrongful Conviction is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number One. We have worked hard to ensure that all facts reported in this show are accurate. 00:34:29 Speaker 5: The views and opinions expressed by the individuals featured in this show are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of Lava for Good.