Latest / Rusty's Garage / Jason and Ben Bargwanna - Part 1

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Jason and Ben Bargwanna - Part 1 · Rusty's Garage

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A listener production.
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I'm automotive commentator and journalist Greg Rust and this is Rusty's Garage.
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For this episode, I'm in a motorhome at Sandown.
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It's a cold, wet Melbourne day, and we have escaped the weather for some warmth before practice starts for the TCR round here.
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Now, I've decided to do something different for this episode too.
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Instead of the usual one-on-one feature interview, I've got a couple of mics and a father-son combo who are both racers.
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Most of you know Jason Barguana, the 2000 Bathurst winner who got there through a kind of...
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sheer tenacity that I really admire, a dogged determination with seemingly endless amounts of positivity that we could all learn from.
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He's taken the skills he's sharpened along the way from what we affectionately call the University of Motor Racing and applied them to business as well.
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More on that later.
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His son, Ben, is...
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Well, a chip off the old block in some ways.
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It seems just like yesterday that he was a little tacker, being at the track around race cars and watching his dad.
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That's been a powerful force in his life.
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Ben is following the same path, but in his own way.
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He's got a slightly different personality.
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He's got a quieter side.
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Being around Gary Rogers Motorsport means...
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That hasn't lasted too long and we are seeing more of his personality, which is great.
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Typically, he's got this smile, Ben, from ear to ear.
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And that's in part because he is driving all sorts of cool race cars in amazing places this year.
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From a Peugeot TCR machine in our Aussie series to taking on the world's best G-Rex.
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in Portugal, Spa, he's off to Macau as well.
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And Ben has jumped into those wild S5000 open wheelers on occasion as he continues the growth or learning curve as a racer.
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On the weekend we recorded, Clay Richards, Stephen Richards' son, the grandson of the great Jimmy Richards, was Ben's teammate.
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It was a very special moment when the Rodgers...
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The Richards and the Barguanas all got together for a photo in the pit lane.
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They have done great things at GRM, all of them, over the years, and they keep coming back.
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What's immediately obvious is that family is important to all of them.
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And in the case of the Barguanas, you don't have to go too far at events in this series to find a family member or someone who is connected to them.
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The lineage goes back quite a ways.
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What do we call a gaggle of barguanas?
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Can we do the family tree?
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So you're calling it a gaggle?
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Well, you could call it a flock.
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A flock?
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A murder?
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When we get to the six hour, it's awesome because you're literally all there, aren't you?
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A pod?
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I don't know.
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That's a pod of dolphins, isn't it?
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So, yeah.
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Look, I don't know.
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Yeah, you're right.
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There's...
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There is a lot of barguanas that come out around that time.
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I mean, obviously, the family originated when they came out to this country from Cornwall and Wales, that part of England, to Orange, Young, Cowra, that way.
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So when it comes to Bathurst, we tend to find a lot of cousins pop out of everywhere.
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Everyone's a barguana that pops out of that area.
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There are connections up through there, I think you've told me.
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Yeah, so we've got the family originated there.
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So there's actually a Barguana Road off the edge of Nublar Circuit.
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So a Nublar Circuit, if all these motor racing fans would know, was an important part of Australian trim car history.
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So if you find a... Yeah, so they're into sheep, they're into cows, they're into real estate, they're into auctioneers, all that sort of stuff.
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And that's where the family originated.
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So when it comes to...
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Motor racing, yeah, sure.
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My grandfather, Dar, he died in about 75, I think it was.
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The twins, Harry and Alf, so they've been racing forever with their younger brother, John.
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But he's the tall one, so we're all short.
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John's about 6'8 or something.
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I think that's where Jude must have got it from, something like that.
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So, yeah, then they raced a lot of club motorsport stuff, hill climbs.
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Scott and I were hanging around sliding down the muddy hills at Oran Park on the cardboard while the dads were racing.
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So we grew up in that environment.
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I mean, that's just what we did.
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Amaru, Oran Park, right throughout New South Wales Hill Climb, championship, all that sort of stuff.
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And then obviously Scott and I got the bug for it and we started racing together in Formula Ford and we raced at Bathurst obviously together in 92.
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Yeah, no, it was very good.
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I mean, we had a great experience together.
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I went on to a...
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a bit more of a career and then now the boys are racing so it's uh yeah it's it's fantastic to have that that lineage goes right through the family i've loved it because in in recent broadcasts your dad's been commentating on jude in the in the va touring car and you're in the you're in the tcr machine at what age did you become aware of what dad had perhaps done and then maybe even what what
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you know the the the family lineage in motor racing when did it sort of hit you yeah i mean obviously i was quite young going to the track when dad was racing supercars and things like that in fact i one of my earliest memories was i was um on the side of the track at winton i think it was near the sweeper i just remember one lap dad didn't come past and i just remember going to mom where where's dad
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It was parked over somewhere at Turn 2.
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But, yeah, look, I was quite young for most of Dad's supercar career.
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So I think when I started to get into go-karts and really got a taste for racing, I started to understand Dad's career a bit and what he's done and everything like that.
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But, yeah, it wasn't until really after he was done with supercars that I understood it a bit more.
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But you've gone back and...
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watched, viewed, read and really absorbed it, haven't you?
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Yeah, of course.
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And I hear a lot of dad's stories which, you know, I love.
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I love hearing those old school stories.
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Is there a shrine to bugs at home?
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Is there a shrine to chase at home?
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No.
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No.
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No.
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I'll answer.
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Will you?
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Yes.
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There is.
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Awesome.
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Deb says, just get that crap out of the house.
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Up into the shed.
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There's a corner in the back of the house where it's like this big glass cabinet with the Bathurst trophy and all these model cars and hats and it's just Dad's corner.
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Cool.
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Cool.
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Let's talk paths to getting here.
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Your dad will probably tell me yours was fractionally easier than his.
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I can recall, mate...
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Me being Greenhorn commentator at Orrin Park, and I reckon you turned up, it might have been at this point with a Formula V, and was it a Kingswood or White?
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What was the car that you had that you towed?
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Yeah, I mean, my early career was running on three credit cards and four jobs, and we were doing whatever we could.
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What were the jobs?
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Was it finance-related or stock market-related?
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Yeah, I actually ended up getting a job.
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My full-time job was working as a chalky.
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Was it really?
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Stock Exchange?
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Stock Exchange.
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Um, and then, yeah, that moved into a different broking firm and sort of moved around that industry.
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I worked my way up in that.
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And then I started taking that much time off.
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I worked my way back down to the mailroom.
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It was only that it was actually, I reckon the amount of time off I was taken, my job was right on the edge of the limit.
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And then we won Bathurst, Scott and I in 92 and the, all the, the bosses in the business saw it all and they were all excited and they kept me around for a bit longer, but they managed to, I was taking that much time off to go motor racing, but yeah, I was ended up at back in the mailroom again.
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So, um, yeah.
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But, yeah, look, I was – I think I had, at one stage there, the Formula V. That's all I owned.
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I had a $600 HQ, which was leaking.
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It had that much rust in it.
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The footwell would fill up with water.
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Crazy.
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And we towed the race car around.
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When I was doing Formula Ford, I had that ZH Fairlane with the flames on the side and the –
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I think the radio was broken and the power steering was buggered, but we just kept going and we kept racing and found a way to make it happen.
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That was pretty wild.
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Definitely a different course because he didn't have to sleep in the back of the fair lane at Lakeside or any of that sort of stuff in his career, let me tell you.
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My first car was like a nice golf that had all the bells and whistles, so yeah, it's a bit different.
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To be fair, to be fair to him, he works in the family business, doesn't he?
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So I think it's a bit of you trying to ensure that...
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that's instilled in him a little of what you went through in some respects, work for it.
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Is that fair?
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You have to.
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I mean, to appreciate what we do here, to get the most out of it, you've really got to own it, you've got to work it, you've got to work hard, and that's my opinion.
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Certainly, I guess I can build my opinion based on my own career and how we went about and achieved what we achieved.
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So for Ben, I want to instill that work ethic.
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And I think that's what we've done right through his career, right from day one at the go-karts.
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He's always been hands-on, working on it in the shed.
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Mate, if you're not getting the go-kart ready, we're not going racing type thing.
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So...
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In fact, I reckon there was a couple of times there where it just didn't leave Sunday morning because we're just like, mate, you don't want to work on it?
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We're not going anywhere.
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It's that simple.
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But for me, that instills that work ethic and that value of what we do.
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And we really then do appreciate these opportunities, the people we work with, the teams, the sponsors, and we get the most out of it.
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And so far, it's working all right.
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Tell people a little bit more then about what the business is, because post-racing life for Dad, I think there's been some Red Roosters.
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And what are you working with?
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What are you doing now?
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Yeah, so, I mean, obviously, I was doing a bit of that, the DSO role with supercars, but at the same time, we ran four Red Rooster restaurants.
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We've cut that back to one.
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We've got one store now.
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So we employ about 30 people there.
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And we run a transport logistics company down in the Gippsland area.
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So we've got about 45 staff there.
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Ben's one of our express delivery drivers.
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When was your last staff review?
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Have you had a pay rise?
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Is everything okay there?
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No.
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I keep asking for one, but I think all the days off I ask for it.
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It doesn't go too well.
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It doesn't go too well.
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Yeah, exactly.
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No, but look, at the end of the day, Ben does a great job, and that's part of it.
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I mean, Monday morning after a race meeting, we fly back from Queensland.
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We land at 11 o'clock at night.
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We get home at 1.30 in the morning, and he's back at work at 7 a.m.
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So there's no – this is about earning it and owning it, and that's the sort of – the value that I'm trying to put into his career and teach him about.
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And at the end of the day, it's almost at the point now where I've got to stand back and he can make his own choices and decisions.
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Tell me a little bit about the business side here, because we know Jason Barguana, Bathurst winner.
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We know your racing career and so on.
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But one of the things that you've, away from the track, just based on the description you've given, you've obviously become quite good at, is hustling and chasing the deals and putting some of this stuff together.
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You were working quite hard in the background on this for Ben.
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Oh, yeah.
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Look, I mean, absolutely.
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I guess that...
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that's the benefit of Ben's career, I guess.
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And, you know, we talk about Clay Richards and Ash Morris and all those guys that have, racing off the back of our careers, have given a little bit of a step up, I guess, in terms of understanding the business.
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So from my point of view, yeah, that's the bit that I enjoy now is being involved in putting the deals together.
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I mean, we work hard on our commercial partners and we've, you know, we managed to scrape together the deal and for Ben to go and race overseas and we put those pieces together.
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I guess it's different, too, because when I was hustling in Formula Ford, trying to find $200 sponsors and $500, I mean, I was 25, 26 years of age, 27 years of age when I got into supercars.
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These days, these kids are all so young.
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So to get them at 17, 18 to go and stand in the boardroom is quite difficult.
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But that's, I guess, where I step in.
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And I'm certainly not his manager.
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I wouldn't say, well, you don't listen to me.
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Definitely not my manager, the manager.
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But, yeah, in terms of we work together and putting it together, and that's my role, and he's got the helmet on now.
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How have you enjoyed learning that side of the business?
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Because you have to be the complete package, mate, don't you?
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Yeah, I mean, absolutely.
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I mean, Dad explains to me what it was like in his time and how hard it is.
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Obviously, I don't truly understand that.
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Yet.
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I mean, I'm still learning a lot.
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But, you know, I'm starting to understand it working with business like Burst and Auto Parts, Hang Cha, things like that.
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I'm starting to understand it and, you know, traveling overseas.
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How to give value for them and things like that.
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Yeah, exactly.
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You know, I never...
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I probably...
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As we've talked about, Dad earned it and things like that.
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So he understood it because it was like understand it or fail.
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I'm not in that position.
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So I've got to learn it as it comes and things like that.
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But I'm starting to understand it.
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And the more I understand it, the more I enjoy my racing.
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the more I understand what's going on behind the scenes, I feel a bit, you know, I feel better about what's going on on track and things like that.
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So it's good to learn it.
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And I really like, this is a passion of mine racing.
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So the more I learn about it, the better it feels.
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As we sit here and talk some great news for you in relation to the, the back end of the 2023 season, some very cool opportunities that you've been able to stitch together here.
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Just tell us,
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shine a light on that you're in uh tcr and have been for a couple of seasons now in australia but but this year you've pushed to a whole new level you've gone to spa you've gone to portugal you're trying a little bit of the world pathway aren't you yeah absolutely i mean when tcr came to australia in 2019 dad and i sat on the couch and we're like how can we get but we want to get in that like let's let's make sure we're in that that
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And, yeah, obviously, as things have changed a bit, the opportunities to race overseas have presented themselves, and we've pushed to make that happen.
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And, yeah, look, I got to race in Portugal and Spa, which was like, I think Dad and I were standing at turn five at Spa, and we're like, are we actually here?
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Surreal.
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We're here.
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Like, this is amazing.
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And then, yeah, at the back end of the year, we've got more opportunities.
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I got...
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The month of November, I got Sydney, Bathurst, Macau, and then Adelaide.
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So, very busy month, but still pinching myself, really.
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Pretty cool to think that you have both ended up in your driving careers with Gary Rogers Motorsport.
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That's pretty special, isn't it?
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Well, yeah.
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I mean, especially this weekend, we got Clay Richards here as well.
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Obviously, that's a bit of a story, but...
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Yeah, it's crazy to actually think how the full circle works and then I'm back at GRM.
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And it's funny, the very first day Dad walked into GRM, he got the nickname Jabba.
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And the very first day I walked in, I got the nickname Jabba Junior.
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That's from Gary.
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Gary gives everybody a nickname, doesn't he?
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You can't get away without a nickname.
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He's never called me Ben.
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It's always Jabba Junior.
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Jabba Junior.
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Excellent.
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Sounds good.
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The open-wheel path for you, I mean, you've got to dabble a bit in S5000 this year, but you took Formula Ford before, and you got to represent Australia in an open-wheel sense too, didn't you?
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A hundred years ago, Marcus Ambrose and myself, we went to Donington and raced at the
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at what was called then the Nations Cup for Vauxhall Lotus.
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So single-seater, somewhere between Formula 4 and Formula 3 is where it sat in the world of Europe.
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A lot of the F1 guys went through it.
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Yeah, Marcus and I went and we wore the green and gold for Australia and raced that weekend.
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It was fantastic.
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It was a great experience.
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I did it twice, actually.
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I did Magna Corp, France, and then...
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At Donington as well So I understood the value of going and racing overseas Opening your eyes up to what it's like over there That was my opportunity at that point in my career And that's why we worked really hard to create this opportunity And since the World Tour TCR World Tour was announced We sat back and looked at it and went Hang on, this is actually achievable for us We might be able to find a way That we can go and compete with the world's best At the best levels, at the best circuits And really experience that for Ben And hopefully will help his career In terms of taking that next step as well
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You've both raced the cars.
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What do you like about the TCR machines and how different are they?
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I mean, they're diametrically different to a supercar, aren't they?
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Yeah, look, I'm lucky.
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I've raced everything from a supercar to a jet boat to a...
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I've actually...
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I drove a Formula One car.
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I didn't race it, but I've driven a Formula One car.
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Where was that?
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At Malala, would you believe it?
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How good?
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I've raced front-wheel drive.
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I've raced production cars.
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I've raced lots of different things, but...
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So back when I was – in 2008, I ended up racing minis for a year in that season where I had off in touring cars because of the way that team, WPS, collapsed and all that sort of thing.
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So I ended up racing minis.
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I really enjoyed that.
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That was a lot of fun.
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And these are just a bit like that, the high-grip race.
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Really, you can really drive them hard and you've got to balance the car with that front wheel drive versus the cold rear tyre.
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And that's an exciting part of it, isn't it?
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That's always – and these guys are getting much better at it now and everyone's starting to understand it.
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But the dynamic of that front wheel drive racing, I really enjoy it.
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So for me, they're a great little car to drive.
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And, yeah, look, we all understand supercars in this country are still the top of the pile.
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But there's definitely no doubt that TCR is a very strong global category.
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Will you pull the helmet on again at some stage or what's your –
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Well, there was a chance I was actually going to be driving the Hunja car here at Sandown.
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But look, yeah, I will.
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I'm definitely looking at opportunities.
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But it's not about chasing championships or career type stuff.
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It's more about having some fun and enjoyment.
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And we'll put the right opportunities together and have a look and have a play.
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Yeah.
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What has it been like racing against some of the best in the world?
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And what are we in for here in September and October?
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Because they're going to play hardball.
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We might know Bathurst a little more and Sydney Motorsport Park a little bit more.
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They play for keeps, those drivers, don't they?
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Yeah.
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Yeah, I think Australia drivers are pretty good, but I think we'll get a bit of a wake-up call.
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Okay.
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Those guys are tough.
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I mean... Nah, we'll give them plenty.
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Yeah, we will.
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But, I mean, out of the drivers that are coming, I think there's like four or five world champions just in TCR, so it's like they know what they're doing.
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Doing, yeah.
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But, yeah, I mean, from what I experience, even if you're racing for 16th, 17th place, it's on for a world title.
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Like, they do not...
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They don't give an inch.
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And I think that'll be the same here.
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But I think, I mean, we had Teddy Claret, a good friend of ours.
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He came out to Bathurst and Dad said to him day one, like, you'll probably be four seconds off the pace.
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And he's like, no, no, no, no.
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Yeah, his first session, he was four seconds off the pace and he just couldn't believe it.
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So I think Sydney, these guys will probably, I think they're smart enough to work it out.
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But I think Bathurst will have a leg up.
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As a part of the announcement that's happened in the last few days, he's coming.
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We don't know whether he's going to do Sydney or Bathurst yet, do we?
18:55
Because there's a bit of a share arrangement going on in terms of who's going to be in that car, isn't there?
18:59
Yeah, it's a constant rock, paper, scissors game between the two.
19:03
It's either Teddy's done Bathurst and he has a second go, or he lets his brother have a go at Bathurst and they can't work it out.
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But it's cool to have...
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have that happen.
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You know, like the two brothers come out, they share the car, they, you know, the whole family's coming out, which are, you know, good for us because we're good friends with them.
19:22
Where's it going for you?
19:23
Where do you want this to go?
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Look, I think there's a real good opportunity with this world tour.
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And I think we've started a relationship with the Clarées.
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So, look, I can't say... Yeah, no, of course, of course.
19:42
But hopefully you can build on that.
19:43
Is that where you're going?
19:44
Hopefully we can build on that.
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Obviously...
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GRM are building this new Peugeot as well.
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Maybe, you know, things go well, we can buy into that process and make an opportunity overseas, work with Clarets and create a full-time world tour thing and, you know, race for a world championship.
20:02
That would be pretty special.
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It would be very special.
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You mentioned representing Australia on more than one occasion.
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Was that sort of something you would love to have had an opportunity like this, a pathway, a thing to go beyond that?
20:16
Yeah, I mean, look, you know, I obviously built a career here in supercars, which was fantastic.
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I loved it.
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It was amazing.
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You then sat back, and the likes of McDoans and, you know, you see Danny Ricardo and those guys who get to fight at a world championship level.
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So as a young guy growing up, watching those sorts of guys representing Australia, putting on the green and gold –
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really having the country behind them was something that I certainly would dream of, and I think a lot of young athletes do, whether it's motorsport or anything else, to represent your country.
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I know motorsport's slightly different.
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We don't team up, and we don't necessarily...
20:51
I mean, Marcus and I did in the green and gold colours, but when we go and race overseas at a world stage, we're not necessarily representing Australia, but we're very proud to be part of that.
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So, you know, certainly I know Ben can't answer these questions about what we're doing because we are putting a plan together for next year.
21:06
Good on you.
21:06
for 2024 to see if we can find a way to do more of the world tour um to compete at a world level uh have a crack at it i mean that would be ultimately a fantastic goal if we can achieve that um certainly the the supercar platform's not something we would ignore either but with the opportunity that's in front of us right now grm's committed to the new peugeot um we're in the process of understanding how all that looks for next year um and i think there might be a way we can get to do more world tour and we're a bit more green
21:45
One of Barg's fierce rivals back in the day, Greg Murphy, joined Rusty for a long overdue part 2 in December 2022.
21:53
His epic Dodge Challenger restoration was something you all wanted to know more about.
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So I sent, I had a Dodge Cup, a restricted plate cup engine, which had had injection and bits and pieces put on it.
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Hadn't been run, but that was the concept, and the idea was going to be that we put that in there.
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And that got shipped over to America with the car.
22:18
In the end, they went with a different power plant, but the finished restoration of Murph's muscle car is truly stunning.
22:24
Wonder if Jason has a garage project?
22:27
Hey Rusty, put that on your questions list.
22:32
In our backyard here in Australia, you kind of came through during a time of change of thinking, if you will.
22:39
And Lowndes had kind of started that process of getting management to think about giving younger drivers an opportunity for management to take a risk on a younger driver.
22:49
It's a bit different now.
22:50
We value fast youngsters coming through and we tend to try and open the door a bit more.
22:55
But it was not as straightforward as that when you were coming through, was it?
22:58
It certainly wasn't.
23:02
I guess during that period, Craig was certainly probably the first, but the business was changing as well.
23:08
So motorsport went from that Brock Johnson-type era of team owners who drove their cars to...
23:17
The legends, the stalwarts.
23:19
Yeah, but the business changed, didn't it?
23:21
So we went through that golden period of supercars growing, the TV deals, the structures.
23:26
Then all of a sudden there was an appetite for talent,
23:30
To really put some names out there and have a go and this is where obviously my opportunity with Gary with Holden Racing Team Came about because they had a desire for talented young drivers to build a business model to try and race at the front So there's a lot of us that got opportunities Garth obviously had his opportunity Murph Richo, you know Craig and it led through to Jamie Winkarp and then you know the list keeps going on and on and on so um
23:57
Yeah, I mean, look, for me, that was a very exciting time.
24:01
I mean, it's probably a little bit different these days in terms of where the platform sits, I think.
24:06
And certainly commercial backing is a very big part of the sport now, not just supercars or TCR or internationally, but it's certainly a big part of what we're doing now.
24:16
And it's, yeah, it's just a little bit different.
24:17
But, yeah, certainly to see these young guys get this opportunity and go and race at the top level is what it's all about.
24:23
Big.
24:23
Big thing for you to, you know, from the young lion side of things.
24:28
But it comes, mate, in that period, it came with peaks and troughs for you, didn't it?
24:31
You know, you were unbelievably fast that weekend at the mountain.
24:36
Everyone was turning heads.
24:38
And at the same time, you know, you're in the spotlight when it goes pear-shaped too, aren't you?
24:44
Well, you remember that.
24:45
I do, mate.
24:46
Sadly, I do.
24:47
Because literally 24 hours beforehand, everyone had been blown away, hadn't we?
24:52
You know, we had a good program that year with the Young Lions program.
24:55
We had an opportunity to do a few laps in the cars, and Mark and I were, Noska and I were chosen to represent the team.
25:03
Here at Sandown, we were actually very competitive.
25:07
It was wet.
25:07
It was terrible.
25:08
I think everyone ended up off the road at some stage, and we ran pretty strong, but the pace was very good.
25:14
Then we got to Bathurst and the plan actually was that I think NOSC was going to do the shootout and qualifying, but there was a bit of time left and there's a set of tyres left.
25:24
And actually the session before the practice five or whatever it was, we were the fastest, well, I was the fastest car on old tyres.
25:33
So everyone in front of us on the timesheet, and I think I was about fifth or sixth on the timesheet.
25:37
All the pressure rubber.
25:37
Fresh rubber on.
25:38
So we sort of looked at it, analysed it, and then Jeff said in between the sessions there, well, look, Mark had to go at qualifying, and then they let me have a crack as well.
25:47
And then as soon as I got some fresh tyres on the thing, she lit up and away we went.
25:51
And then to finish that afternoon on provisional pole.
25:54
Pole.
25:55
I was like, whoa, what's going on here?
25:58
These are the names of the guys that I had posters on my wall and used to stand in the queues and get their autographs and that sort of thing, and now we're actually mixing it with these guys.
26:05
And then, yeah, I mean, obviously history showed it.
26:08
Mistake on Sunday morning.
26:10
I clipped the wall at Apex at Forest Elbow, and that was the end of that.
26:15
But, you know, look, at the end of the day, we put helmets on for a reason.
26:20
And that's actually the advice Brock gave me.
26:22
Did he?
26:22
He grabbed me and said, and this is before we went to the press conference and all that sort of stuff.
26:26
Brock came up and he found me in the truck and he said, right, sit down, son.
26:29
We'll have a bit of a chat about this.
26:32
And he pointed out, I mean, we put helmets on for a reason because sometimes things go wrong.
26:37
And he sort of gave me a bit of a pep talk and we had a chat about it.
26:39
And then I think you were probably in the press conference when I went up there and explained what happened.
26:45
the fortunate part about that was that clearly out of that weekend, um, the one bad part, there's a lot of good parts and that's what Gary saw.
26:52
And Gary rang, didn't he?
26:53
Gary rang and said, come and talk to me.
26:55
And within about 10 minutes, we'd agreed to a deal.
26:57
And the following year, Jim Richards and I were on the podium at Bathurst and, you know, we won races that year.
27:02
So yeah, I mean, look, you know, Ben's going to make mistakes.
27:07
Every young driver's going to make mistakes.
27:08
They're all going to have bad days.
27:10
Um,
27:11
But you bounce back you and that's the thing.
27:13
I mean you mentioned it earlier about Gary Rogers and we're here and I mean, we're real races were real hard-ass races, right?
27:20
So Gary myself the family We're the people that are still here and still around you find a way to gravitate towards the people like-minded people I've been doing this for and I think it's nearly 40 years.
27:32
I've been racing for which is pretty sad.
27:33
Isn't it really?
27:34
I
27:36
Been around this pit lane for a long time.
27:38
Been around this whole area for a long time.
27:40
And, yeah, you have bad days.
27:42
You have good days.
27:43
You just head down and keep moving.
27:45
Barry Rogers said to me yesterday, I think he was talking about Lockie Dalton,
27:48
and in Trans Am, and how he felt he had this sort of even keel, that on the good days he wasn't necessarily jumping out of his skin and doing high fives, and on the bad days he wasn't, you know, super flat either.
28:01
He's at his young age able to sort of find this nice neutral thing.
28:06
Compartmentalising something like that at Bathurst is not easy.
28:11
Fantastic that someone like a Brock...
28:13
would do that.
28:14
And great that Gary was on the phone.
28:17
How quickly were you able to let that go?
28:20
Because everyone in the game was talking about it.
28:23
There was pretty wide news coverage of it and so on.
28:26
And we'd seen what happened with Cam McConville at the top of the mountain a few years prior.
28:30
And for Dick Johnson, he'd stepped out of Formula Ford, great opportunity, hits the wall at the top.
28:35
you know, they can be brutally damaging in a career sense, mate.
28:39
To be able to park that mentally as a young bloke, maybe without even the assistance of a trainer that some of them now have or someone who's good with mind coaching and so on, and to move on, how do you do that?
28:49
Yeah, look, I think you're right.
28:51
I mean, there's...
28:53
Everyone's motor racing career, it's like a big curve, isn't it?
28:57
So as it grows and as it gets bigger and better, you hit those little speed humps and it could go either way.
29:04
There's plenty we've seen that have had situations develop that actually end their career, career-ending sort of incidents.
29:11
But I guess, yes, I had Brock there, but I think...
29:16
I think, and we mentioned it earlier, sleeping in the back of your fair lane at Lakeside in the rain, driving up and down the country, running your Formula Ford, working hard to get to the next race meeting Thursday night, cutting, you know, making sponsor stickers out of vinyl that you bought at Woolworths, and cutting them hand-cut letters and things like that to put stickers on cars.
29:35
The hard work...
29:36
It teaches you so much.
29:37
It teaches you the resilience of, look, okay, another speed hump.
29:43
So it's about looking yourself in the mirror and going, right, I've just got to focus on let's move on to the next thing.
29:48
I mean, we've all had it.
29:50
You know, every name you can think of in this sport's had bad days and crashed and, you know, I mean –
29:58
Back when I was a kid, Dick had the rock and he had the 84 and the, what was that, 83 and the, into the trees and all that sort of stuff.
30:05
So all those sorts of things happen in everyone's careers.
30:07
You just got to focus and move on.
30:09
Move on.
30:10
He won at the mountain.
30:12
When you went there for the first time and you got to race there, I mean, such a legendary place.
30:18
What did that feel like?
30:19
It was pretty special.
30:21
The first time I'd raced there was the XL.
30:23
Yeah.
30:25
And even to get... Like, it was a bit of an invite thing.
30:27
And we got in under New South Wales, so we sort of dodged our way into it.
30:32
Explain that.
30:32
Explain that.
30:33
What did you do?
30:34
Well...
30:35
It was sort of an invite thing.
30:36
The states picked who was who, and then New South Wales didn't have enough, and we did a few rounds in New South Wales.
30:42
So they're like, hey, let's – I've got family there.
30:43
I've got family from New South Wales.
30:46
So we got in on the New South Wales and 55 XLs on the grid.
30:50
Like it was – Mega.
30:52
Epic.
30:52
Yeah.
30:53
The first session I was just like – eyes were dinner plates.
30:56
I just couldn't believe it.
30:57
um but then that that weekend went on we did qualifying and i was in i just remember the whole time everyone was fighting for a tow like it was just crazy and then the end of the session i've come in and it was like p2 it's like oh wow like that's and well it was less than a tenth off pole or something so my first ever race at bathurst i'm starting front row unreal
31:17
I was like nervous as.
31:19
But that weekend went on.
31:21
And then the second race, a few safety cars, things.
31:25
I popped out in second behind the last restart.
31:28
I passed Old Mate in first.
31:30
And then all of a sudden I've crossed the line for the win.
31:32
Unreal.
31:33
So my first weekend there, I've got a win.
31:34
I was like over the moon.
31:37
And then the last race, there was, you know, 55 XLs, someone in third crashes through the dipper.
31:44
I end up in it.
31:44
So I ended up, because there was like lap two, red flag, I'm in the crash.
31:49
I ended up winning the weekend with a car that was like a pretzel.
31:52
Help.
31:53
So you got to experience the full gamut that weekend, basically.
31:56
Yeah.
31:57
That second race, he's ended up winning the race.
31:59
I was on the top of the building watching.
32:00
There's no TV or anything because it was – so we couldn't see anything, right?
32:03
We just stand up there.
32:04
We listen to a commentator.
32:05
What's going on?
32:06
What's going on?
32:06
What's going on?
32:07
I mean, we're on the top of the building because pit lane, you couldn't see anything.
32:11
So at least up on the actual roof, I could see something.
32:13
So I saw him go up Mountain Straight.
32:15
over the hump and he was just about to make a move.
32:17
And I thought, oh, who knows?
32:19
And we're waiting, waiting, waiting.
32:20
And all you had to do was, as they popped out under the bridge, he was leading and come around the last corner.
32:24
I actually burst into tears.
32:25
I was that excited.
32:26
It was like he's going to win his first Bathurst race at 16.
32:29
So it was, yeah, it was a good experience.
32:31
And that's in a Hyundai XL.
32:32
This sport's crazy, isn't it?
32:34
Like what it does to you.
32:35
But, yeah, it was just, it was pretty special that weekend.
32:38
And bear in mind that race win was my first ever race win in a car.
32:43
And it was Bathurst.
32:44
It was like, I couldn't talk.
32:45
I was out of voice when I came in because I was screaming that much.
32:48
That is a great class of racing.
32:51
I've got a lot of grey hair now.
32:52
Your dad's lost a bit of hair.
32:53
That's another story.
32:54
But when we were younger, it was HQs.
32:57
XLs are now that... How valuable has that class been in terms of that introduction for you and so on?
33:03
Oh, so valuable.
33:04
I mean, the category's grown massively over the last few years.
33:09
But, yeah, when I started, there was a few of us, Jalen Roboth and Michael Clemente, who I race against now, we all joined in at the same time.
33:16
And all the old blokes there that love their club were like, oh, who are these young kids, you know?
33:21
And then, you know, it was pretty small when it started.
33:25
And then all of a sudden, people started realizing it was a good step out of go-karts.
33:29
But it's such a basic form of racing.
33:34
You learn the H pattern.
33:35
You learn the weight shift.
33:36
You learn how to brake, heel and toe, things like that.
33:40
And you go racing with what is really a cheap race car.
33:43
So it was...
33:44
It was awesome.
33:45
I did two and... Oh, and we still race XLs today.
33:49
Today.
33:49
Do you?
33:49
Occasionally, yeah.
33:50
Yeah, excellent.
33:51
So it's been really good.
33:52
Lots of names pop up from time to time doing that, and we've seen Brock Feeney do it over time and Nash Morris and so on.
33:59
You mentioned before about getting a little upset, understandably, in a very special moment.
34:04
What are you like?
34:06
You walk the hard yards.
34:07
You got to do some great things in supercars, wins that I fondly remember at Winton, Bathurst especially.
34:12
Yeah.
34:13
But are you a good...
34:15
Dad, watching your own, do it.
34:17
How are you with that?
34:18
I don't know, the expression on Ben's face.
34:20
But I promised myself when we started racing go-karts, Ben was 10.
34:25
His older brother Jake had a go at the same time.
34:27
I said, I promise I'm never going to get angry at the racetrack, right?
34:31
So I'm not going to be one of those dads that I just – we're going to go and do it.
34:34
We're going to enjoy it.
34:35
If you want to do it, mate, you do it.
34:36
If you don't, you don't.
34:37
That's fine.
34:38
We'll pack up and come home.
34:38
You know, it's no big deal.
34:40
And we went along for a bit, and I think the very first race meeting Ben –
34:44
He spent most of the time running around dead last, waving at mum and I, driving past.
34:48
So every time he went past, he gave us a wave, which was pretty amazing.
34:52
And then there was this day we went private testing down at our local go-kart track.
34:56
It was pouring rain.
34:57
I'm yelling at Ben.
34:59
He's yelling at me.
35:00
He's in tears.
35:00
I'm walking around in the rain with a starter, picking him up out of the...
35:04
You know, we're spinning off every lap.
35:06
He wants to go home.
35:07
I'm get back in that go-kart.
35:09
I'm teaching you.
35:10
You know, and I said, mate, you're going to listen because I'm going to try and teach you something here.
35:14
Anyway, we had one of those days, and I thought, what am I doing?
35:16
This is just ridiculous.
35:17
You know, we're supposed to be having fun here.
35:20
And then we turned up at the next club day a week later, and it rained.
35:23
He won by, like, 30-odd seconds or something.
35:24
I was like, right.
35:25
So see what I'm trying to tell you, son?
35:27
This is how this actually works, right?
35:30
And then, yeah, from then on, we've really just enjoyed doing it together.
35:34
And go back to Excel's.
35:35
I mean, all the boys were racing go-karts and about 15 years of age, Jay, Mikey, Ben, they all started at Phillip Isle, and the three of them were fighting for 33rd.
35:44
place on the track.
35:46
We chose to go with a dead standard car, dead standard gearbox, all that sort of stuff.
35:50
And until he actually learnt to get the rhythm right, look after the gearbox, he kept having a standard engine.
35:56
He kept wanting a better one.
35:57
I'm like, nah, you're not having one?
35:58
Till we perfect that.
35:59
Till we get that right.
36:00
You get that right, then we'll start giving you more performance.
36:03
Yeah, they turned up... You all run around the back, and then the next year, they're all fighting for the championship, and Ben actually won the title.
36:09
So they went to the Nationals.
36:11
I think you won, two, three or something, weren't you?
36:12
You won, two, three, four or something.
36:13
The Nationals in the first year.
36:15
So quite quickly, these young guys, and that's what's happened in that Hyundai XL arena as they've all come through.
36:21
But we went to Formula Ford, and then COVID got us.
36:23
So...
36:24
We were leading the championship, won the first round for former forward, and then that was the end of that.
36:29
So for me, yeah, I mean, we've had a good relationship through it.
36:32
We do it together, and I'm learning to step back a little bit and let him be his own athlete.
36:40
I will say about the XLs as well, obviously it was quite small when it started, but as it grew, it turned into something where they created endurance races.
36:48
So that was the first chance Dad and I actually got to share a car.
36:51
We did an endurance race together.
36:53
Excellent.
36:53
And then a few years later, I got to share a car with my grandfather and Jude got to share one with his and we all raced on the track together.
37:01
So XLs has created some pretty cool opportunities.
37:05
I'm proud of you, mate.
37:05
That's cool that you...
37:07
soaked that up because that's a very very in a family sense very special thing to do absolutely he um you know has been a great supporter and will continue to be a great supporter do you walk a little bit of the line now of of um you know i i need him in my corner because he's my dad and he knows and he's walked that road and so on but at the same time i need to be my own man a little bit too and how do you go with all that
37:33
Yeah, I mean, absolutely.
37:35
Dad's been in my corner from day dot, so it's a big help having him there, and I really appreciate him there every race meeting.
37:44
But as Dad sort of touched on before, it's going to get to the point where I need to...
37:50
steer the ship and I'm, he has to step away.
37:53
It just has to, it has to happen.
37:56
And if I can't do it on my own, then it's not going to happen.
37:59
So, um, obviously, yeah, dad's, dad's always going to be there for me, but, um, and until I fully get this journey on my own, then yeah, I, I need to, I need to experience it and I need to, um,
38:15
What do you reckon the biggest learning's been for you out of the race car?
38:18
You know, whether it's the business side, whether it's the, you know, understanding the race car.
38:22
Should I get mum to come and answer that question?
38:25
What would the answer from mum be?
38:27
Clean up your room, son.
38:30
I think it's just the work ethic.
38:33
I think what it takes behind the scenes has been... Biggest learning.
38:37
Biggest learning, 100%.
38:38
Because, you know, for a while there, I was just rocking up to race meetings.
38:43
And until you understand, well, hang on, everyone else is working harder than you.
38:47
You need to work harder than them.
38:50
And dad will continue to say that till the end of my career.
38:53
So I think, yeah, that's probably been easily...
38:56
The biggest one.
38:57
The biggest one.
38:58
He talked about Formula 4 there before and the bloody pandemic getting in the road and things like that.
39:03
But it obviously didn't dampen the enthusiasm.
39:06
Was that the point where you started thinking, you know, because just 2019, we'd had a little bit of TCR in Australia.
39:11
We'd seen...
39:12
the emergence of your teammate in Aaron Cameron coming through from karts and so on.
39:17
There was a bit of zing about that, wasn't there, about that series?
39:20
Yeah, absolutely.
39:20
I mean, the first round we sat down and we were so excited and we were picking our favourite cars and we thought who was going to win.
39:28
It was really cool.
39:29
And then watch that, obviously, and Gary Rogers, we sort of supported them a lot.
39:35
And watching how it played out throughout the year, it was really cool and obviously very new to us.
39:41
And then, yeah, 2020 wasn't much of racing.
39:44
So, yeah, to watch that was really cool.
39:51
And then, obviously, to be part of it was even cooler.
39:57
But the TCR format's awesome.
39:59
And learning about it is just exciting.
40:01
It just keeps getting more exciting for me the more I learn about it.
40:04
But at the same time...
40:07
Going back to the Hyundai XL race at Bathurst, the third phone call was from Gary Rogers to say, well done.
40:11
How good.
40:12
So he was on the phone to me pretty quick.
40:13
No, that's pretty good.
40:14
That's about what we got.
40:16
But while Ben was doing former Ford, he was actually, I think you were a Moffs tyre guy, weren't you?
40:20
Yeah.
40:21
So we had him, had Ben hands-on working with GRM in TCR as a tyre guy, as a mechanic, hands-on.
40:29
And you spent a full season working.
40:32
with that team whilst we were still, we hadn't even put our deal together to race yet.
40:36
So that was like, for Ben, it was a way to get in and get started and learn.
40:41
And then we'd sort of, yeah, create an opportunity where it meant that I could drive and there was a pathway for Ben to get into TCR.
40:48
Were you a good Thai guy?
40:49
I don't know if I'd say good.
40:53
What was involved in that?
40:54
So was it just on race weekend that you would come out and do that?
40:56
Or were you doing stuff during the week as well?
40:58
Yeah, yeah, just race weekend.
41:00
So I was just, for half the year, I was the tyre guy for Moff on the Renault.
41:05
It was actually quite funny that, you know, Talon Ben, Moff had that shunt with Will Brown and the Bunnings repair.
41:11
Yeah, yeah, you had to go and find a new Perspex.
41:12
Yeah, yeah.
41:13
A bit of perspex, didn't you, to make a shield?
41:14
Yeah.
41:15
So I was part of that fix, but obviously I had no experience and they didn't really want me fixing the car.
41:22
So in the back of the Renault, it had like a fiberglass sheet.
41:25
And all afternoon, I had a roll of duct tape taping together a sheet of fiberglass to stick back in the...
41:32
So that's cool.
41:33
It was just little jigsaw bits of a fiberglass sheet.
41:36
That's all I had to do.
41:37
So, yeah, I just did tyres, really.
41:41
And I did half the season with Moff and then, I think, a bit with Jordan Cox at the end of the year on the Alfa.
41:47
And it was a pretty cool experience.
41:49
Some of the learnings in that still serve you well now?
41:51
Yeah, 100%.
41:52
I mean, we work with different tyres now, but definitely, like... And there was no easy rides because I was Jason's son or whatever.
42:02
Like, I had to get in there and do my work.
42:04
And I had to do the job, so...
42:06
It was a pretty cool experience.
42:08
I really enjoyed it, but it was stressful.
42:11
I'd rather be driving.
42:19
That's the end of part one of my podcast with the Barguanas, Jason and Ben.
42:23
The weather hasn't improved outside the motorhome and practice isn't starting yet, so we've got a bit more time with them before Ben has to get the race face on for the weekend.
42:34
When you're ready, you'll find a part two of our convo all parked in the garage library and ready to fire up whenever it suits you.
42:41
future plans, stitching deals together, a restoration project.
42:46
And while Ben accelerates his career, does that mean that Jason is hanging up the helmet or is the lure of driving race cars still a powerful thing in his life?
42:57
All that and more here on a special round table convo with the Barguanas.