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Book Club: Hello, Universe · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to stuff
0:07
Speaker 1: I never told you a production of iHeartRadio. And welcome
0:19
Speaker 1: to another edition of book Club. Today we are doing
0:22
Speaker 1: the twenty seventeen novel Hello Universe by Aaron and Trota Kelly, which,
0:29
Speaker 1: by the way, when you suggested this, I had a
0:33
Speaker 1: moment of like, I don't want to do that one
0:35
Speaker 1: because I wrote something called okay, Universe, this is too close.
0:41
Speaker 1: The title is too good.
0:45
Speaker 2: We's gonna take that title. You better? Oh you just yeah,
0:49
Speaker 2: you just gave that out for free. Annie, what are
0:51
Speaker 2: you doing? The funny we have spies.
0:54
Speaker 1: We do have spies, and they work at HBO Max,
0:57
Speaker 1: which it is now HBO Max Aga because of Shenanigans.
1:03
Speaker 1: The funny thing is I have already recorded for our
1:06
Speaker 1: spenty fiction the first chapter of that, but we haven't
1:10
Speaker 1: gotten through Terminus.
1:11
Speaker 2: So I'm gonna say, wait, have we finished Terminus? No
1:14
Speaker 2: jumped into a new one.
1:15
Speaker 1: Oh, guys, I was just being productive. Some days had
1:18
Speaker 1: days where I'm like, let's just go ahead.
1:21
Speaker 2: Oh I don't have those days. I must that. That's
1:25
Speaker 2: a conversation in itself.
1:26
Speaker 1: Anyway, Okay, anyway, we're not talking about my book. Today
1:31
Speaker 1: today we are talking about Allow Universe. It's a unique
1:37
Speaker 1: young adult coming of age story following the viewpoints of
1:40
Speaker 1: four middle school students, and it has received a lot
1:43
Speaker 1: of acclaim including the Newberry Award. It's fantastical, it's poignant,
1:48
Speaker 1: it's really touching. It's a tale of finding friends and
1:51
Speaker 1: yourself and unexpected places and trot to. Kelly is Filipino
1:56
Speaker 1: and has mentioned in interviews that she wanted a story
1:59
Speaker 1: that had more focus on Filipino culture and folklore. And
2:03
Speaker 1: Samantha and I were talking about it before, and it
2:06
Speaker 1: does have that kind of whimsical childhood adventure with less
2:10
Speaker 1: of the hard rs.
2:13
Speaker 2: That was in our generation. Thank you to the newer
2:15
Speaker 2: generation of writers. I was like, you know what, let's
2:18
Speaker 2: not crush their spirits. Let's give them a kind of
2:21
Speaker 2: a happy ending.
2:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's kind of like a mystery.
2:27
Speaker 2: Looking at you bridge it there Bitia.
2:34
Speaker 1: Also, we almost didn't choose this one because I was
2:36
Speaker 1: worried about the link. But it goes by really quickly.
2:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, it does. It goes back very quickly. And it's
2:40
Speaker 2: also available because you know, I love an audio book.
2:43
Speaker 2: It helps me like do my multitasking that I need
2:46
Speaker 2: to do. Uh, but yeah, it's very short. It is
2:50
Speaker 2: a chapter book for the younger, younger generations, and like
2:53
Speaker 2: elementary middle school. I love it though. It's so great.
2:57
Speaker 1: Yeah it is. It's really great, all right. So before
3:02
Speaker 1: we break down the plot, let's establish our four main characters,
3:05
Speaker 1: whose povs we're gonna shift between. Virgil, a shy young
3:11
Speaker 1: Filipino American boy nicknamed Turtle because he won't come out
3:15
Speaker 1: of his show. He really doesn't like this nickname. No,
3:17
Speaker 1: it's understandable, Yeah, completely understandable. We've got Valencia, a wilful
3:26
Speaker 1: but lonely deaf girl who loves nature. Kayo a Japanese
3:31
Speaker 1: American girl who can read fortunes. She kind of does
3:35
Speaker 1: this alongside her sister Jin. And then we've got Chet
3:39
Speaker 1: the Bull. I think his last name is Bullins, right,
3:42
Speaker 1: Chet the Bull Bulleins the bully who learned a lot
3:46
Speaker 1: of his bad behavior from his dad, So he'll see
3:49
Speaker 1: his dad talk trash about somebody and be like, ah, yeah,
3:52
Speaker 1: that makes sense. Okay. So the bulk of this story
3:56
Speaker 1: takes place over one summer day, and we learn about
4:01
Speaker 1: our main characters through introspective chapters before the action really
4:04
Speaker 1: gets going. So yes, we have Virgil, who is a
4:07
Speaker 1: shy kid who is small. He's picked last for Jim.
4:11
Speaker 1: He doesn't fit in with most of his pretty outgoing,
4:14
Speaker 1: sportsy family. He's close with his grandmother, though, his Lola,
4:19
Speaker 1: who shares Filipino lore with him. He wants to connect
4:23
Speaker 1: with classmate Valencia, who he sees as outgoing and brave,
4:28
Speaker 1: the opposite of him. To figure out how to do it,
4:33
Speaker 1: he makes an appointment with local psychic Kyori I love
4:37
Speaker 1: this and sets off to meet her with his beloved
4:41
Speaker 1: guinea pig Gullivar. However, Gullivar is that that's so funny.
4:45
Speaker 1: It's obviously Gulliver's Gulliver.
4:48
Speaker 2: I don't know why.
4:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, Gulliver, Yes, because that's a plot poort later on. Anyway,
4:54
Speaker 1: ignore my mispronunciation. However, on the way, as he is
4:59
Speaker 1: collect what he needs for his reading for five Stones,
5:03
Speaker 1: he runs into school bully Chet, who is intent on
5:08
Speaker 1: capturing a snake. Chet harasses him and then takes his
5:12
Speaker 1: backpack and drops it in the well, and Gulliver is
5:15
Speaker 1: in there, so the poor Culliver down he goes. Virgil
5:20
Speaker 1: can't leave Culiver behind, so he climbs down the wells ladder,
5:24
Speaker 1: only to find the bottom rungs are missing. He does
5:29
Speaker 1: discover Gulliver is fine, but now they're both trapped in
5:32
Speaker 1: the well and he kind of has this whole He
5:40
Speaker 1: has to kind of come to terms with a lot
5:41
Speaker 1: of things about himself. But one of the things is
5:44
Speaker 1: he has to get himself to raise his voice and
5:48
Speaker 1: start shouting for help, which is something that is very
5:50
Speaker 1: difficult for him and something I actually relate to. I
5:52
Speaker 1: was used to be really bad about that in auditions.
5:55
Speaker 1: If it was like she screams, I'd be like, oh,
5:57
Speaker 1: I can't do that. Oh, I was like, I mean
6:03
Speaker 1: probably why didn't get any of those roles. Meanwhile, Valencia
6:12
Speaker 1: is also on her way to meet Kayori for a
6:15
Speaker 1: fortune after seeing her business card at the grocery store, which,
6:18
Speaker 1: by the way, great business woman.
6:21
Speaker 2: Or is a smart business woman with a very handy
6:24
Speaker 2: sidekicked sister.
6:25
Speaker 1: Yes, Indeed, Valencia can't shake off these feelings of loneliness
6:31
Speaker 1: that she has that like something is missing. She's having
6:35
Speaker 1: these nightmares where she's basically like there's a solar eclipse
6:39
Speaker 1: and everyone disappears and it's just her or she ends
6:43
Speaker 1: up alone or is invisible something like that. And in
6:48
Speaker 1: her years, she's even prayed to Saint Rene, who is
6:51
Speaker 1: a French missionary. So she's tried a lot of things
6:55
Speaker 1: to deal with this, and now she's like, if I
6:58
Speaker 1: have one more nightmare, I'm going to go see the psychic,
7:00
Speaker 1: and she does, so she goes. She's also had experiences
7:05
Speaker 1: with previous friends who left her because of her disability,
7:09
Speaker 1: and she worries her family feels the same way, so
7:14
Speaker 1: here she goes. She's on her way to Kyrie's. She
7:16
Speaker 1: passes by the well but can't hear Virgil's calls for
7:20
Speaker 1: help and closes it, knocking the stones that he collected
7:23
Speaker 1: along the side inside and ceiling him in the dark.
7:28
Speaker 1: And meanwhile Chet's watching her and being like a total
7:31
Speaker 1: jerk because he doesn't believe she actually can't hear, so
7:34
Speaker 1: he's like testing it.
7:36
Speaker 2: Also that she's a witch.
7:38
Speaker 1: Yes, he also thinks she's a witch because she's very
7:41
Speaker 1: into nature and so she's like helping a squirrel like
7:44
Speaker 1: she's you know, she goes into the woods a lot. Yeah, Anyway,
7:51
Speaker 1: she continues to Kyrie's, who Kyrie's kind of distracted because
7:57
Speaker 1: Virgil never showed up and so she can't quite concentrate,
8:02
Speaker 1: but she does interpret Valentia's dreams as kind of like, yeah,
8:08
Speaker 1: anyone would be scared of being invisible or being alone,
8:11
Speaker 1: that makes sense. But then she does when Valentia is
8:15
Speaker 1: like less than impressed, she does mention of, well, Virgil's missing,
8:19
Speaker 1: that is so unlike him. I'm very worried. And so
8:23
Speaker 1: Valencia agrees to help Kayori and her younger sister Jen,
8:27
Speaker 1: who always carries her jump rope with her look for Virgil,
8:32
Speaker 1: and she almost does, like something is drawing her to
8:36
Speaker 1: do so, like maybe this is fate, but she can't
8:39
Speaker 1: quite place who Virgil is to kind of describe him,
8:41
Speaker 1: and she's like, I don't know, I don't know. They
8:44
Speaker 1: decide to first check with Virgil's family, though they say
8:47
Speaker 1: Vow will have to do it since the family is
8:49
Speaker 1: suspicious of the psychic sisters, so she goes. Meanwhile, at
8:55
Speaker 1: the bottom of the well, Virgil is having visions at
8:57
Speaker 1: a Filipino legendary bird of prey that his Lola told
9:01
Speaker 1: him about named Pa, and an imaginary conversation with Ruby,
9:07
Speaker 1: who is a friend from Lola's village that Lola has described,
9:12
Speaker 1: and Ruby is basically telling him like she's trying to
9:14
Speaker 1: pump him up, like come on, we can do this. Meanwhile, meanwhile,
9:20
Speaker 1: Chet is bitten by a snake after grabbing it completely
9:24
Speaker 1: the wrong way, and I have to say, even I
9:26
Speaker 1: knew that'sgrash.
9:30
Speaker 2: He didn't research well.
9:31
Speaker 1: He didn't research well, and we will talk about that
9:34
Speaker 1: in a second. So Val and the others meet with Lola,
9:37
Speaker 1: who claims that she and Val have the site or
9:40
Speaker 1: something like that, similar to Kyori. This is also when
9:44
Speaker 1: Val realizes she does, in fact no Virgil. But they
9:48
Speaker 1: learned that Virgil is not home, but he had gone
9:51
Speaker 1: into the woods. So then they try to follow the
9:54
Speaker 1: path he would have taken to Kyori's because again he's
9:56
Speaker 1: like somebody who keeps his appointments, so this is probably
10:00
Speaker 1: where he was going. Let's go this way. Along the way,
10:03
Speaker 1: they run into Chet, who's suffering from the steake bite.
10:07
Speaker 1: Valencia examines the bite and gives advice on how to
10:10
Speaker 1: treat him, calling him out for calling her defo, and
10:14
Speaker 1: gives everyone her name. So at that point she'd been
10:17
Speaker 1: kind of cagey about it, but at this point she's like, no,
10:21
Speaker 1: this is what you call me. That's how it is correct, yes,
10:27
Speaker 1: and that is where Kyori says that they should go
10:31
Speaker 1: into business together her Val. With Kyori's knowledge of the
10:34
Speaker 1: spiritual side and Vow knowing the natural side, they could
10:38
Speaker 1: really have a good business. I love that they could.
10:42
Speaker 1: They could.
10:43
Speaker 2: It's a good business again.
10:45
Speaker 1: Kyri's got a good business sense.
10:48
Speaker 2: She knows what's going on.
10:51
Speaker 1: They continue to search the woods until they find the
10:53
Speaker 1: well and the knoctover stones. They pushed the cover off
10:57
Speaker 1: and use the jump rope gins jump rope that she'd
11:00
Speaker 1: been caring to, say Virgil. And it's then that Val
11:06
Speaker 1: reveals that she had a guinea pig named Lily Put.
11:10
Speaker 1: Lily put Gulliver if you don't remember, that's Lily puts
11:14
Speaker 1: the village in Gulliver's travel. So it's like another instance
11:18
Speaker 1: of fate that they were meant to meet. Kori surmises
11:24
Speaker 1: that fate brought all of them together. Virgil has gained
11:27
Speaker 1: self confidence, Val has friends, she's her nightmare is kind
11:31
Speaker 1: of assuaged. Kiori has a potential business partner, and Jet
11:37
Speaker 1: hopefully we'll think about some of his actions.
11:41
Speaker 2: He's kind of left as a I don't think there's
11:43
Speaker 2: a redemption r for that one with the father, he's
11:46
Speaker 2: pretty bleak.
11:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's like my best hope is that he'll recover
11:52
Speaker 1: from the snake bite and actually think about it and
11:55
Speaker 1: be like, oh.
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Speaker 2: I mean he was envisioning during that point of dying
12:00
Speaker 2: or like being really aimed and being able to be
12:02
Speaker 2: like heroically Hill, but I did face it.
12:07
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. So he doesn't join the friend group, but
12:15
Speaker 1: they all they become friends and I'll talk about this
12:19
Speaker 1: more in a second, but like true friends, and it's
12:25
Speaker 1: very sweet and that's kind of where it ends. Mm hmm,
12:39
Speaker 1: all right, Well that does bring us to our themes.
12:42
Speaker 1: So one of the big ones is just kind of
12:45
Speaker 1: this almost ethereal like seeing signs are going to psychics,
12:52
Speaker 1: our astronomy or fate or nightmares and reading nightmares and
12:56
Speaker 1: what does that mean? Which was really fun. I liked
12:59
Speaker 1: that lot and trying to figure out just as a reader,
13:04
Speaker 1: like oh what does this mean? Okay? Right, that was
13:07
Speaker 1: really fine. And you know, at first, you don't know
13:10
Speaker 1: much about Carrier's business. You kind of see the business
13:12
Speaker 1: card and you're really interested because she's young. I think
13:14
Speaker 1: she's twelve years old, she's around there, and so you're
13:18
Speaker 1: like ooh, I want to know more about her. Yeah,
13:22
Speaker 1: but she.
13:23
Speaker 2: Was not wrong because she definitely interpreted that dream about
13:25
Speaker 2: being afraid of being alone and the whole time, like
13:28
Speaker 2: Valencia is like, no, you're wrong, No, I don't care
13:30
Speaker 2: about being alone. I like being alone all these things.
13:32
Speaker 2: But in nactuality, she's just been seeking a friend. And
13:35
Speaker 2: we talked about the fact, like you know, she talked
13:37
Speaker 2: about like having friends with upon a time and now
13:39
Speaker 2: this is new, but like and then you know, Calorie
13:43
Speaker 2: was like, okay, okay, I believe maybe you're not. Maybe
13:45
Speaker 2: maybe I'm just off, But in actuality she was on
13:49
Speaker 2: as well as the fact that she knew that Virgil
13:51
Speaker 2: wasn't there and something was wrong, went into the woods
13:53
Speaker 2: like she was on it. Oh. Yeah, Kyrie had a gift.
13:57
Speaker 2: And I also loved her perspective of a like she
14:00
Speaker 2: seemed like such an old soul about not bringing in
14:02
Speaker 2: phones in her area, about not having all these things
14:05
Speaker 2: in her area, like keeping that sacred. I was like, okay,
14:08
Speaker 2: she's serious, serious.
14:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, she had a bunch of rules, which I liked.
14:15
Speaker 1: I was like, she seems to know she's got that's
14:19
Speaker 1: something going on. Yeah, she If you want to come
14:22
Speaker 1: get a vision from me. Here's what you gotta do.
14:24
Speaker 1: You can't just show up beautiful. I love it. So
14:29
Speaker 1: we have that. We have, as we mentioned Valencia having
14:34
Speaker 1: this really strong connection with nature. You have Virgil going
14:41
Speaker 1: through this whole thing in the well in the dark,
14:45
Speaker 1: talking with Ruby, who represents hope, and then talking well,
14:49
Speaker 1: seeing Paw and that being fear and kind of having
14:52
Speaker 1: this back and forth and coming out Change came out
14:56
Speaker 1: of the well, changed.
15:00
Speaker 2: Speak to her.
15:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, didn't tell his family, don't call me turtle.
15:04
Speaker 2: It took him a minute, it took him all the
15:06
Speaker 2: going home. And you didn't mention the dog Sacred, Yes,
15:10
Speaker 2: who is why Valencia goes through the woods in the
15:13
Speaker 2: first place, not only to get to Calorie, but she
15:15
Speaker 2: feeds this dog that's in the woods home like I guess,
15:19
Speaker 2: roaming dog that she names Sacred, and she feeds him
15:23
Speaker 2: in the woods and he follows her about and during
15:26
Speaker 2: this time, the Sacred is a part of all of this,
15:29
Speaker 2: and it kind of seems to insinuate there's something happening,
15:32
Speaker 2: like there's like he may be like also a representation
15:36
Speaker 2: here of part of that, and that could have been
15:38
Speaker 2: a part of the strength because Virgil ends up going home,
15:41
Speaker 2: and Sacred ended up following him, and when he's home,
15:45
Speaker 2: he's like trying to get the nerve and like Lola,
15:49
Speaker 2: who is a kindred spirit if there ever were one,
15:52
Speaker 2: talking about you know, we're gonna keep the dog. We
15:54
Speaker 2: can do these things for the dogs, because like he
15:56
Speaker 2: brought home a dog and there's something meaning to this.
15:58
Speaker 2: And during this time that she he's like, finally, like,
16:01
Speaker 2: I don't want to be called turtle. I wanted to
16:03
Speaker 2: be called Virgil or his full name or uh, you
16:09
Speaker 2: know what I'm talking about, and uh, she finally and
16:12
Speaker 2: the mother actually sees him for the first time. I
16:14
Speaker 2: feel like that's a big sign of it. But it
16:16
Speaker 2: took him still another minute to really get to that point,
16:20
Speaker 2: because he had already whispered at once when he left
16:22
Speaker 2: the house, right, I don't like you call me a turtle.
16:25
Speaker 2: But when he got home he does slowly come back
16:29
Speaker 2: to it, but he doesn't quite get there because he
16:30
Speaker 2: doesn't talk the entire time. It when in front of
16:34
Speaker 2: Valencia and they just kind of he just stares yea,
16:37
Speaker 2: even though in his mind he'd made up all these
16:39
Speaker 2: things and if I survived, these are the things I would.
16:41
Speaker 1: Like to do. Mmmmm yeah. We'll talk about that towards
16:45
Speaker 1: the end, but yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean I didn't
16:48
Speaker 1: really say it because I honestly wasn't quite sure, and
16:52
Speaker 1: that's probably a side for how badly I am reading
16:56
Speaker 1: these things. But he had like a crush on Valencia.
16:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, well he felt that she was strong, which is
17:01
Speaker 2: exactly what also check the Bully saw too, like, because
17:06
Speaker 2: she's strong and just her looks alone of like ugh
17:10
Speaker 2: made him scared of her.
17:11
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, so she was a I think it
17:15
Speaker 1: was a He had a lot of emotions about her,
17:17
Speaker 1: but one of them was strong in like respect and
17:19
Speaker 1: she's different than how I am and I want to
17:22
Speaker 1: talk to her, so we also, I have a couple
17:24
Speaker 1: quotes here Ruby's side. That's the problem. People don't want
17:29
Speaker 1: to listen to their thoughts, so they fill the world
17:32
Speaker 1: with noise. I just love that because I.
17:34
Speaker 2: Feel like, yep, Ruby is an old soul. She kind
17:39
Speaker 2: of does remind me of Cowie in that level of
17:41
Speaker 2: like back and forth. Yeah, she's also an extension of Lola.
17:45
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm yeah yeah, yeah, So here's another quote. Weakness
17:52
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with how much you weigh Ruby hesitated. Sure,
17:55
Speaker 1: maybe they can play sports and lift things, but that
17:57
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that they're strong. There are men different ways
18:00
Speaker 1: to be strong, and being a warrior has nothing to
18:03
Speaker 1: do with size. Surely there have been small warriors before Yoda. Obviously.
18:12
Speaker 1: Come on, I'll think.
18:16
Speaker 2: About the folklore that Lola Tel's with the guy, but.
18:23
Speaker 1: Judge me by my size, do you? Come on? Here's
18:27
Speaker 1: a quote from Kiori about their business, this business proposition.
18:31
Speaker 1: I know about the spiritual world and you know about
18:33
Speaker 1: the natural world. It's the perfect partnership. That's probably why
18:36
Speaker 1: fate brought us together as friends. I just love this
18:40
Speaker 1: idea so much. I'm so into it.
18:42
Speaker 2: Oh they're so perfect.
18:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, but there's a lot of elements like this. There's
18:49
Speaker 1: a lot of things around. Like there's one idea of
18:53
Speaker 1: getting letters from loved ones, like kind of after they've
18:59
Speaker 1: passed on or whatever, and getting these letters. And I
19:02
Speaker 1: feel like the ending for me felt like that, even
19:05
Speaker 1: though I know that's not quite what was happening, but
19:08
Speaker 1: real great, Yeah, because she gets a text message. Valencia
19:13
Speaker 1: gets a text message at the end from Lola's number
19:16
Speaker 1: that says hello, and she knows it's.
19:18
Speaker 2: Not Lola and that was this whole thing was like,
19:21
Speaker 2: I'll just need to say hello, that's it. That's all
19:23
Speaker 2: I need to say, and everything else will happen.
19:26
Speaker 1: Yeah. So Virgil finally did it. And by the way,
19:28
Speaker 1: it was like two thirty in the morning, right, which
19:34
Speaker 1: has a different vibe when you're in middle school versus older.
19:38
Speaker 2: It's still unlike anything past ten thirty. I was like, oh, well,
19:42
Speaker 2: my phone. Not to be fair like I've done it,
19:44
Speaker 2: but I'm like, in my mind, you're not listening because
19:47
Speaker 2: your phone is turned off and you're asleep, so you'll
19:49
Speaker 2: just say the first thing in the morning. But she
19:52
Speaker 2: was kind of always already alert because for the first time.
19:57
Speaker 2: We'll talk about this probably later, but like getting all
19:59
Speaker 2: these when she never got them from her mom, and
20:02
Speaker 2: that made her so excited.
20:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it was very sweet. She got a lot
20:08
Speaker 1: more textbustors than me. I have to say also, well,
20:12
Speaker 1: because since she says she had like fifty.
20:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was pretty high up there. No, that's gonna
20:19
Speaker 2: make me panic. I'm gonna t my phone all.
20:20
Speaker 1: That's gonna make me think. I've like been called out
20:22
Speaker 1: on social.
20:24
Speaker 2: Media somewhere right.
20:31
Speaker 1: As mentioned, fate is very big in this story, kind
20:34
Speaker 1: of this idea like Jen had the jump rope was
20:37
Speaker 1: what they needed to say Virgil, and all all these
20:41
Speaker 1: things came together to bring them together and to make
20:45
Speaker 1: sure that they did say Virgil. And that was something
20:49
Speaker 1: I really liked it and definitely as a kid, I
20:51
Speaker 1: would have ate that up. As you mentioned, also, animals
20:57
Speaker 1: are pretty big in this book is a little animals.
21:00
Speaker 1: We have Gulliver, the guinea pig, and then Lily put Sacred,
21:04
Speaker 1: the dog who does seem to kind of have some
21:09
Speaker 1: sense or something.
21:11
Speaker 2: Well, we have the squirrel watching with Valencia as well
21:15
Speaker 2: as Jane Goodall having a good mention here.
21:18
Speaker 1: Yes, I forgot about that.
21:22
Speaker 2: Because that's why she went to observe the squirrels, because
21:24
Speaker 2: she wanted to be Jane Goodall observed chimpanzee, so this
21:27
Speaker 2: was her way of doing that. She's like, in one day,
21:30
Speaker 2: I'll be known for observing these squirrels.
21:33
Speaker 1: Squirrels are cool. They have secret stashes of acorns.
21:38
Speaker 2: That was not what I was reading for you to say,
21:40
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna lie. I was unexpected. That was amazing.
21:43
Speaker 1: They have secret stashes for me, they.
21:45
Speaker 2: Do, And that's how she said she's gonna survive, and
21:47
Speaker 2: you know what, respect that made me think maybe I
21:50
Speaker 2: should do the same thing. So I'm not go.
21:53
Speaker 1: We gotta keep all of our avenue rooms open, you know, yes,
21:58
Speaker 1: but also snakes. And I think, going back to your point,
22:02
Speaker 1: the way at Chet, who is determined to catch the snake,
22:08
Speaker 1: really looks down on Valencia and it's like she's a
22:11
Speaker 1: witch when he clearly didn't do any research. He didn't
22:16
Speaker 1: know what he was doing. I'll say it again. Even me,
22:21
Speaker 1: I was like, no, that is not how you pick
22:24
Speaker 1: up a snake. So there's sort of an element there
22:28
Speaker 1: of like learning from your elders or at least doing
22:31
Speaker 1: the research if you're going to embark on that having
22:35
Speaker 1: the respect. It's kind of a Jurassic Park element. And
22:38
Speaker 1: there as well, which is you know, as we talked about,
22:47
Speaker 1: you don't really get the resolution with chet story like
22:51
Speaker 1: you do with everyone else, but you do see him
22:54
Speaker 1: learning this behavior from his dad. You do see him
23:00
Speaker 1: picking up on that and wanting to kind of impress
23:03
Speaker 1: his dad, but also like really shaping how he views
23:07
Speaker 1: strength versus weakness. Yeah, so that was an elm. And
23:13
Speaker 1: then who is it that has to help him? Is Valencia?
23:16
Speaker 2: Right, I'll never admit it.
23:18
Speaker 1: Oh no, probably not. So another theme friendship or into friendship.
23:36
Speaker 1: Here's a quote friends. Something about the way she says
23:39
Speaker 1: it makes me feel like I found something. I know
23:41
Speaker 1: it sounds corny, but in that moment with that one word,
23:45
Speaker 1: I already feel like a different person. Is that possible?
23:50
Speaker 1: And so this is Valencia's feelings of when she has
23:55
Speaker 1: she realizes like, oh I have friends. Oh I'm getting
23:57
Speaker 1: the text messages like oh I have this group that
24:00
Speaker 1: Actually I told them, can you look at me when
24:03
Speaker 1: you're speaking so I can understand you? And they do,
24:06
Speaker 1: But instead of making her feel bad about it.
24:08
Speaker 2: Right, not even questioning or giving her looks or like
24:11
Speaker 2: any of those things, and understanding that again, like Valencia
24:15
Speaker 2: has a gift when it comes to studying and understanding
24:18
Speaker 2: nature and loving things and paying attention to like their surroundings,
24:21
Speaker 2: Like she has a bigger power and I love like
24:24
Speaker 2: in this also conversation about names, I love that. I
24:28
Speaker 2: actually I know a lot of Asian people having that
24:31
Speaker 2: conversation of like changing their Asian names into something English
24:37
Speaker 2: so that it's not so hard to say, or all
24:39
Speaker 2: these things and the power of names in general, like
24:42
Speaker 2: Valencia talks about loving her name and the fact that
24:44
Speaker 2: she originally was gonna be like a more common Emily
24:48
Speaker 2: or something I think name, and then her mom looked
24:50
Speaker 2: at her. She's like, no, you're Valencia, and Lola's like, yes,
24:52
Speaker 2: you are. Your name is power, and Colorie is the
24:56
Speaker 2: same thing. She's like, no, my name is unusual, it's
24:58
Speaker 2: different and it's powerful all these things, and Virgil is
25:01
Speaker 2: the same thing. Virgil is very powerful and he wants
25:05
Speaker 2: to be that, not Turtle, like all of these things.
25:08
Speaker 2: It was very like I love that, and they kind
25:10
Speaker 2: of all bonded over that, and I thought it was
25:12
Speaker 2: really genuinely sweet and an amazing lesson to be given
25:16
Speaker 2: because I have a feeling I was going try a
25:20
Speaker 2: little bit of a try to a little purpose, but
25:22
Speaker 2: like in this level of like talking to other Asian
25:24
Speaker 2: people and them questioning my name and like, oh, actually
25:27
Speaker 2: I'm adopted. They're like, oh, that makes sense. But then
25:29
Speaker 2: they're like explaining their names, and I was like, yeah,
25:31
Speaker 2: I want to say your name, don't change it just
25:33
Speaker 2: because it's like, what is your name? So I can
25:35
Speaker 2: say as it's given, unless you prefer not to be.
25:38
Speaker 2: That's understandable. You have to grow into whatever you want,
25:41
Speaker 2: or if there's other you know, things, But if you
25:44
Speaker 2: love your name and it's you know, not common, then
25:47
Speaker 2: we should all respect that. But like you know that,
25:49
Speaker 2: there's power in that. It was cute, it was very sweet,
25:52
Speaker 2: and they bonded over that.
25:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a really lovely moment. And then they
25:57
Speaker 1: found they found these friends, and they found the things
26:02
Speaker 1: that they were also looking for as well, So that
26:05
Speaker 1: was really really nice. And then I did appreciate how
26:09
Speaker 1: disability was dealt with in this book, because Valencia does
26:14
Speaker 1: have a hearing aid and she has been judged for it.
26:21
Speaker 1: Like we said, she had this group, these friends who
26:25
Speaker 1: didn't want to play with her anymore because she couldn't hear,
26:27
Speaker 1: and it made them uncomfortable. She felt like she was
26:31
Speaker 1: invisible even with her family in some instances. Here's a quote,
26:40
Speaker 1: and my mom said that if they were real friends,
26:42
Speaker 1: they would have figured out a game that all of
26:44
Speaker 1: us could play. I can't stand when she says stuff
26:46
Speaker 1: like that. It makes me think she doesn't get it.
26:49
Speaker 1: Bad friends are better than no friends. And besides, I
26:51
Speaker 1: thought they were my real friends in the first place.
26:54
Speaker 1: That was the whole reason I was crying. And that's
26:57
Speaker 1: so because later you do see her saying like, no,
27:00
Speaker 1: I like being alone. I don't need these friends, and
27:05
Speaker 1: so it's so heartwarming that she found the friends who
27:09
Speaker 1: don't who are like, yes, if that's what you need,
27:13
Speaker 1: that's what we'll do. That's okay. But I do think
27:15
Speaker 1: it's also a fair point for her to be like
27:18
Speaker 1: annoyed with her mom being like, oh, yeah, you'll just
27:22
Speaker 1: find that. There's why I think it's fair that she
27:28
Speaker 1: was upset.
27:29
Speaker 2: Right well, obviously their mom parents, because she also talked
27:32
Speaker 2: about wanting to learn sign language, and they're very dismissive
27:36
Speaker 2: of that. Yeah, And I was like, oh, there's a
27:38
Speaker 2: whole of course, Like I don't think again, it wasn't
27:41
Speaker 2: a part of the problem. It was a brief mention,
27:43
Speaker 2: but it says a lot about her parents really trying
27:46
Speaker 2: to be just like just be normal. And I'm putting
27:48
Speaker 2: that in quotes and hoping that they don't that she's
27:52
Speaker 2: not so disenfranchised in this way and kind of dismissive
27:56
Speaker 2: of her worries. It's kind of like when people have
27:58
Speaker 2: dealt with like bullies or being picked on or any
28:03
Speaker 2: of those things. Like when I would talk about the
28:05
Speaker 2: microaggressions that I experienced instead of validating those true things,
28:09
Speaker 2: and they'd be like, oh, they're just jealous, Oh they
28:12
Speaker 2: like you. Like those really dismissive comments has kind of
28:14
Speaker 2: happened from her parents in that same level, right.
28:17
Speaker 1: And that makes you feel like you can't be completely
28:20
Speaker 1: honest and is also kind of patroodizing in a way.
28:24
Speaker 2: Yea to be like, oh, it's okay, they don't they're
28:28
Speaker 2: drims And you're like, but that's not true. That's not
28:30
Speaker 2: how this works. They're being mean and I need to
28:33
Speaker 2: recognize that, Like she's having to be tougher because her
28:36
Speaker 2: parents are willing to handle it or take it seriously.
28:40
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, And if you look in the acknowledgments, the
28:46
Speaker 1: author did a lot of research with schools about people
28:52
Speaker 1: who have hearing disabilities. So I think that's that's really cool.
28:57
Speaker 1: And then a final theme because Virgil, while it is
29:03
Speaker 1: like we said, everything turns out okay, it's an outmeat book,
29:08
Speaker 1: Virgil does kind of face these thoughts of death and like,
29:13
Speaker 1: like you said, if I ever get out of here,
29:15
Speaker 1: if I'll do this, I'll do this, I'll do this.
29:17
Speaker 1: Here's a quote of all the questions you ever ask
29:20
Speaker 1: yourself in life, Never ask what's the point? It's the
29:22
Speaker 1: worst question in the world. Ruby said, because he kind
29:27
Speaker 1: of goes through. You know, I'm going to get out
29:31
Speaker 1: of here. Oh no, it's hopeless. Oh no, I'm going
29:33
Speaker 1: to die.
29:34
Speaker 2: Right, What are my parents are going to say when
29:37
Speaker 2: I disappear? Whatever happened? I want to be a legend
29:39
Speaker 2: like Lola's story, right.
29:41
Speaker 1: And having those thoughts of what would you do differently,
29:45
Speaker 1: and then having the nice ending where he doesn't die
29:52
Speaker 1: and he is found and then he finds friends, and
29:54
Speaker 1: then he talks to Valencia, he gets the thing he
29:58
Speaker 1: was going into the woods to you, right, it is
30:02
Speaker 1: a really lovely kind of full circle story.
30:06
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, it is very sweet and it's very and
30:10
Speaker 2: I'm really I was like, I'm afraid that Grandma's gonna
30:12
Speaker 2: there's so many moments I'm so traumatized by children's books.
30:14
Speaker 2: Then I'm like, this person's gonna die because I really thought,
30:16
Speaker 2: Oh no, I thought the ending was going to be
30:19
Speaker 2: that Valencia was going to discover him and that's that's
30:21
Speaker 2: how they were going to become friends. No, but she
30:22
Speaker 2: closed up the wells so well down never mind.
30:29
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean if we were vis a horror, that
30:32
Speaker 1: would have been a good horror, right.
30:33
Speaker 2: I was like, no, I would be scared of that.
30:35
Speaker 2: I would be scared of being stuck in the well. Like,
30:38
Speaker 2: first of all, there's our water down there where you're
30:39
Speaker 2: gonna drown all these things. I was horrified because I
30:41
Speaker 2: thought that Gulliver was gonna die. I was like, no,
30:44
Speaker 2: he loves like waiting for him to run away and
30:46
Speaker 2: never be found again. I was like, no, yeah, it's
30:51
Speaker 2: not like that.
30:52
Speaker 1: No, Gulliver is like his buddy too, That's what I'm saying.
30:57
Speaker 1: And there's like little illustrations of him at the chapter.
31:01
Speaker 1: He's so cute.
31:03
Speaker 2: And also that is also the thing about how like,
31:05
Speaker 2: you know, guinea pigs are not supposed to be alone.
31:07
Speaker 2: There are social creatures and all these things, and he
31:09
Speaker 2: was figuring that out and wanted to ask for a second,
31:11
Speaker 2: you know, guinea pig. I was like, oh no, yeah,
31:16
Speaker 2: it turned out.
31:16
Speaker 1: You definitely were like, we gotta get Gulliver.
31:20
Speaker 2: Right, we can Goliver out of there. But I did
31:25
Speaker 2: love all of those things in that conversation because they
31:29
Speaker 2: really do come together. Because we also talked like the
31:31
Speaker 2: fact that Virgil does obviously have like a learning disability,
31:34
Speaker 2: and there's a whole some of the things. There are
31:37
Speaker 2: some offensive words in there that I was like, oh,
31:39
Speaker 2: that was really okay. It's not wrong because we know
31:44
Speaker 2: that there are main jarks in the world that will
31:48
Speaker 2: taunt you for anything that is different, but like, it's
31:52
Speaker 2: it's really interesting to see because he also finally stands
31:56
Speaker 2: up to him. I think he yells at him and
31:58
Speaker 2: then runs away or something, but like he doesn't ever
32:02
Speaker 2: really like they don't face, but he just goes back,
32:05
Speaker 2: like says something fondly to him and walks away, because
32:07
Speaker 2: usually he's just running away from him, right or that
32:11
Speaker 2: was also a plus. And would you see chat struggling
32:14
Speaker 2: because he's trying to impress his dad and he knows
32:16
Speaker 2: that his dad is disappointed that he doesn't make the
32:18
Speaker 2: basketball team. So he's trying repeatedly to become a sports
32:21
Speaker 2: person because his dad is very on him about that
32:24
Speaker 2: and how his worth is based on how good he
32:27
Speaker 2: is and like not just being okay, still he's still
32:32
Speaker 2: a jerk.
32:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it was kind of a sad thing to
32:37
Speaker 1: see because you were like, he just wanted to bet
32:39
Speaker 1: that that was like his entire thing is he wanted
32:42
Speaker 1: to get on the basketball team.
32:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, just so his dad could know he did it.
32:46
Speaker 1: Yeah.
32:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, But anyway, great book. Yes, I love a good
32:51
Speaker 2: like children's tell.
32:53
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and it was really fun too, because I
32:57
Speaker 1: think longtime listeners of the show know we love a
33:01
Speaker 1: kind of different povs and then pieces coming together and
33:07
Speaker 1: it's almost like a puzzle. It's really fun.
33:09
Speaker 2: She set it up nicely.
33:10
Speaker 1: Yes it was. It was really fun. And I say
33:14
Speaker 1: this with like a total compliment, but it did go
33:18
Speaker 1: by very quickly. I was surprised because I saw the
33:22
Speaker 1: page count and I was like, oh no, I don't know,
33:25
Speaker 1: but it's just a really you get so caught up.
33:30
Speaker 2: And engaging beast read because you love the storyline.
33:36
Speaker 1: So highly recommend. It's a good summary read.
33:38
Speaker 2: It is a good summary.
33:40
Speaker 1: I highly recommend. As always listeners, they let us know
33:42
Speaker 1: if you have any thoughts or suggestions for future book clubs.
33:47
Speaker 1: You can email us at Hello at stuff Onenever told
33:49
Speaker 1: You dot com. You can find us on Blue Sky
33:51
Speaker 1: I'm Offso podcast or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff
33:54
Speaker 1: I Never told You for us on YouTube or on
33:56
Speaker 1: Tea public and we have a book you can get
33:58
Speaker 1: wherever you get your books. Thanks always too, our super
34:01
Speaker 1: producer Christina or executive producer and our contributor Joey. Thank
34:04
Speaker 1: you and thanks to you for listening. Steffan Never Told
34:06
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