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The Enneagram Five and Withdrawal | A Five's Wholehearted Journey with Georgia Wolfe · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Being a five, I ate it up.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: I immediately knew that that was me.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: I fit the bill to a T, and it was exciting.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: Things that I had always growing up thought were personality flaws.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: I was now getting answers that they weren't flaws.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: They're just part of my makeup of how God made me.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: I am hoarding my time.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I was hoarding it out of fear, out of fear of what you like to call catastrophic depletion.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I think as a five, I'm used to diving into knowledge, like a book, or getting online, and I had reached the point where it was beyond that.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: I had to remind myself at times, I am not all-knowing, God is all-knowing.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: It was really just like my true self had been dampened and living in fear, fear of this energy depletion for so long, until finally I wasn't.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: I came out.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: And last week, Deanna Sudom gave us some of the insights about an Enneagram 5 and her personal take for having a strong wing five.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: But today, my friend and wholehearted sojourner Georgia Wolf is with me today to share about her wholehearted journey.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, Georgia, thank you for saying yes.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: I don't take that lightly.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: Of course.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: My pleasure.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm happy to be here.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna start at the very beginning of the journey in the Enneagram world, so to speak.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: What was happening in your life where you recognized the Enneagram five?
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: What was that like?
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: Was there some relief?
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: What caused you to recognize it even?
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um gosh, this has been, I think I really dove deep into the Enneagram about almost seven years ago.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: I had just moved about two hours away from home for a new job.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't have many friends, I didn't have a lot of free time.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: Looking back, I can actually see where this was going to be a very pivotal moment for me spiritually because I found I found myself very lonely.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I had actually a friend of mine had told me about the book The Road Back to You years before this.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I just never picked it up.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: And being in this transition phase where I found myself with some quiet time, I finally picked it up, and that's when I dove in, and that's where I learned that I was a five.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: It was being a five, I ate it up.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: I immediately knew that that was me.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: I fit the bill to a T and it was exciting.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: I I tend to geek out on knowledge, and so I feel like I finally not that I knew I was searching, but I finally had answers to things like, why don't I feel like I have the energy for this?
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: Or why is it so difficult for me to make new friendships right from the get-go?
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it things that I had always growing up thought were personality flaws.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: I was now getting answers that they weren't flaws.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: They're just part of my makeup of how God made me.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: Along those lines, was there anything that was harder to absorb?
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: Did it sting a little bit when you started to see the patterns being named, or were there things that were harder to own?
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: There were definitely things that were harder to own.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: I think, you know, as a five, we tend to withdraw and we use the term hoarding of time.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_02: And at first I thought, I'm not a hoarder.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's a strong word.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: It is, it really is.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: And but as I read more and learned more, I realized I am hoarding my time, and I was hoarding it out of fear, out of fear of what you like to call catastrophic depletion.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I naming that, it was a relief, but it was also a big question mark.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: You know, well, how do how do I fix this?
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: How do I move on from uh managing this time that I feel like I I can't give anybody?
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, yeah.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: It is a unique phrase that I don't know that I've heard anywhere outside of the Enneagram.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's very distinct.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: And we're gonna talk a lot about relationships, but how did that play into your relationships as it stood?
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Understanding this energy draw and possible depletion.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: It played in significantly.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: I can look back from a very early age in childhood, thinking, even going to church, waking up Sunday mornings, you know, and getting ready for church.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I would think, I'm gonna have to talk to people.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna have to put myself out there.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: They're gonna want to talk to me, they're gonna want me to answer their questions.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: And by the end of the two hours you're at church, I was done.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: I was exhausted.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: And this played into even middle school and high school when kids start to go into or they form um small groups, you know, or you get involved.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't do that.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: That was not me.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: It was a huge I was fearful.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: I was never really a part of a small group because I thought I'm gonna have to go with people I don't really know and share my deepest thoughts and my feelings.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: And they're asking me questions about my personal walk with God.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: That's personal.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like I can't, I can't go.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: I can't do that.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that's too scary.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's too much.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: And then I knew by the end of it I would just be mentally exhausted.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: So it played a huge role, and I can see where I missed out on a lot, a lot, even into adulthood.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: I know there was some of those questions that in our first conversations.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: How do I engage with the world?
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because I I think just what you alluded, having enough time away gave you time for reflection to consider.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: Ooh, I'm not sure that that was a positive quality.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: Now what?
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: So what's interesting is that you've actually built a life that asks a lot of you.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: You have a blended family, you have a bonus son, you are in a career that actually puts you in a room with a lot of people in their hardest moments.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: So, what has that actually have been like for you?
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: What are the relationships that ask the most?
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: And how do you handle it when you hit the wall of your energy?
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: And what happens when your people need you to stay?
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: And you're just like, I've got to recharge.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, oh a lot of times it feels like a flying circus.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: I am very, very much overstimulated, feeling like every aspect of my life is demanding something from me that I just don't have to give.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: One of, I think the hardest one of the hardest relationships that asks a lot of me is that of my husband.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: We, because of our circumstances, being a blended family, I feel, you know, I as a five, we it's very difficult for us to meet needs of others.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: And having that blended family, I am expected to meet his needs.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm expected to meet the needs of my bonus son.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_02: And then I'm also expected to meet these needs that my husband requires me as a bonus mom.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: And as a five, that's a lot, you know, and then these are in addition to all of the other needs that I that people need from me, just on a daily basis, whether it's at work or other relationships outside of work and family.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: But I think trying to manage all of those needs has been a lot.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: However, my time with you, Amy, we've talked about what it looks like for a five to voice their needs so that it's more of a give and take.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't feel so depleted.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's been a really big pivotal moment for my husband and I.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_02: So that I don't feel that I'm the one constantly pouring into him or into our bonus son or just into our family, you know, as a whole.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's really hard for a five to admit, I need something from you.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_02: And so that was something, a conversation that him and I had to have, and it's something that I had to work on.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_02: And he shares his needs, I share my needs, and it's more of a give and take.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't carry this resentment of feeling like I'm constantly depleted from my own family.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's so good.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's you even you name a universal ache that is challenging for women in general, is to state what they need.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: What makes it hard for you?
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: You're the five, but also for you personally.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: What is the fear behind stating what you need?
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: What comes into play?
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: Because for each one of us, it's different.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's important to give some time to that and name it.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think for me as a five, I want to be independent.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_02: I want to take care of myself.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to be a burden to someone else.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: Because I have these limited energy stores.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: If someone asks something of me, I it almost at times can feel like a burden.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't want to project that onto someone else.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_02: But also, there's another aspect to it, and I'll be honest, I think it's pride.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's definitely pride.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I think part of just becoming a healthy individual, no matter what enne grim type you are, you have to die to yourself, especially in your marriage.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: You have to die to yourself, let go of your pride.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: And that that's been probably the biggest turning point for me, is just letting go of that.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: You name that independence.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: What is that independence tied to?
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: What is there security around there?
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: Is it uh an yeah?
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: Tell us a little bit more about that connection.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: I think, you know, I I reach for that independence because I I can manage it.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: Those are things that I am in control of.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_02: I can manage my time that way.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: And if I'm in control of who I'm going to pour into or, you know, what I'm gonna do for the day, that's part of the five.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: I I can manage my energy stores that way.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_02: There's also the flip, the flip side to it.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: That's exhausting.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: And it it turns out to be really lonely.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: I could definitely see where it was causing walls.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: I was putting up walls between my husband and myself because I wasn't being honest about my feelings and transparent and vulnerable and letting him know that I do need things.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: I was just trying to manage it all on my own.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: I know one of the many things, again, oftentimes life is colliding and there's this unique moment where we realize it's coming sideways at us four or five different ways.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: And we can no longer manage it on our own.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: We need help of some sort.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: And oftentimes that propels us into reaching out to either some community base for help, therapy, counseling, coaching.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: And another catalyst or another behind the scenes instigator was challenging family relationships.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: And this is unique.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, we've we've talked a lot behind the scenes, and it's unique because it's not just your story, but it was one of the reasons why you needed to express the help from your husband because of this huge thing that you were going through.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: So how tell us a little bit about that and how you carried it, or what does it even look like to understand and love a five through a time that is incredibly challenging emotionally and relationally?
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't share a lot of my feelings about the difficult relationship I had with my brother.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't share a lot of that with my husband.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: And looking back, I wish I would have sooner because it it is it was a lot to carry.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: And you can't carry all of that on your own.
• 14:16
  unknown: Yeah.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: But I didn't, I didn't want to be a burden to him.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I felt like this was my issue.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: This was my issue that I had with my brother.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I didn't want to, I didn't want to be a burden to my husband about it.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't want him to see me as complaining or, you know, I didn't want my burdens to be his in a sense.
• 14:37
  unknown: Yeah.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because there is an element where it felt like it couldn't be figured out.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: There was no quick solution, and this was dragging out for a while.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: So what made you finally decide it was worth trying something else or sharing or even reaching out for help?
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because the situation is not a quick fix.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't there wasn't a the situation with my brother had gone on for years.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_02: I think probably around 12 years.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I had had a conversation with him over the phone that led to me kind of word-vomiting my my hurt feelings, which I had never expressed to him before.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: Him and I have never really been close.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: We've never really had a relationship where we can talk freely about our feelings, or even just to call up on the phone and you know, and say, hey, how are you doing?
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: We've never really had that.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so this pivotal moment, I had no idea that I was harboring all of these bad feelings and hurt, a lot of hurt.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: And that's when I hung up the phone with him.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: I was very emotional.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: And that's when I just thought, I don't, I don't know how to manage, I don't know how to process all of this.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_02: And that's when I knew I needed to reach out, I needed to find help.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: I needed someone that could unpack it for me and kind of break it all into pieces and you know, and say, this is why you have anger, this is why you're sad about things, these are why you're having these feelings.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's when I reached out for help.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: I think for all of us, again, different reasons, different motivations, but the coming to the end of, whoa, this is maybe bigger than I knew it was because what just happened doesn't match the typical reaction or what I thought would be normal for that scenario.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_02: So and I think as a five, I'm used to diving into knowledge like a book or getting online.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I had reached the point where it was beyond that.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: Searching for knowledge was not gonna help on my own.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: I needed something else.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I was so grateful to get to intersect your journey at that moment.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: And there were tears and prayers, there was no quick fixes, but a lot of what we continued to come back to, besides understanding how to read the map, your inner map of the five and stress and growth and wings and integration, a lot of it was spiritual practices and inviting the Lord into it and giving opportunity to sit with him.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: So tell us, tell me or tell my friend who's listening a little bit, how has your faith intersected with this journey?
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: What is that, how has that looked and how has that matured in this time?
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know, Amy, there was a moment during one of our sessions.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um you said something along the lines of, I don't have an answer for this.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's going to take a miracle.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's going to take a miracle.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I'll be honest, that was a hard pill to swallow.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a realist, I'm a five.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: What do you mean there's no answer?
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like we can find an answer for this.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: But I think it was at that moment that I just I had to throw my hands up and relinquish relinquish everything to God because you're right, it it was going to take a miracle.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so what I thought, you know, what I thought I had with my relationship with God, what I thought was two ways.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: It was not.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: I was, again, trying to carry this load all by myself.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: And so my my prayer shifted.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: My prayer shifted from please do a work in my life, God, please do a work in my brother's life and my parents and my sister-in-law to I need a miracle, please.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: It just shifted.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: And that was a really a real really pivotal point for me.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_02: I realized that God has been there this whole time.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just not allowing him, allowing him to help me.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: I know you say that with a great deal of emotion.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I go back there.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: I also, for frame of reference, these conversations happened over years.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: So this was not in a couple of weeks or even a couple of months.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: This has been, I've had the privilege of journeying with Georgia for several years now.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it oftentimes does go this way, where we together can implement certain practices.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: We can talk about our ownership, our role, what we can do.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: And you did everything.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: You invited your husband into this.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: You learned how to manage your energy in a way that was more life-giving to everybody.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: You engaged with curiosity and care to family members who wouldn't have it.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: You also put boundaries in place and stepped away as you need to.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: There was not a thing you didn't have, even including the kinds of conversations you had with your parents about this situation.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: You had done everything.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: And you share a moment here going, there are, this has happened in my life for sure, still is, where we get to this place.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: I do think it's important to give God our loaves and fishes, to give everything that we can.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then go, okay, God, you've got to do something here because that's what it's going to take.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's going to take a miracle.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: How have you begun to see God seeing you uh in a way that has changed how you view yourself?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: My mom, when I was young, she and I would go through little struggles, you know, as a child or as a teenager.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: She would say, she would always remind me, she would say, God will never give you anything that you can't handle.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: And now I can see, I need to give myself a little more credit, right?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: God is giving me what I can handle.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: And when I feel like I've reached catastrophic depletion, he's there saying, You don't, you're not at catastrophic depletion.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: You can handle this.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so there are times when I am mentally exhausted, or you know, I feel like my energy cup is empty.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: I just remind myself, he's giving me what I can handle.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: I can, I can do this.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: I can, you know, hang out with a friend and I can coach volleyball.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_02: I can still go to work tomorrow, even though I'm exhausted.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_02: I can cook dinner tonight and I can still go to the gym.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: And yes, these are normal life duties, but for a five, they they can be draining.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so I just remind myself he's giving me what I can handle.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: And it's almost like this calming little blanket, or like maybe.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Be like a thunderstorm blanket.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like this.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: I might panic for a quick second, but I'm like, I can do this.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: He's giving me what I can handle.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: And he's giving you the strength to engage with it.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I've seen that in you where your life rhythms have expanded as you've seen God meet you and give you the capacity, not a striving for it, but a Lord, can you help me handle more?
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because this is my plate right now.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's not the hors d'oeuvre or dessert plate I prefer, but this is the like lunch plate.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: And Lord, can you help me carry it?
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's beautiful.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm curious.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of them, but when we're talking about a specific story or moment that illustrates how you show up differently, and goodness, like I can think of 10.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: Boom, boom, boom.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um what's um been something that has stood out to you?
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: In the sense of showing up.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think I kind of had I thought about this for a little, a little while, and in its simplest form, where I can see a difference from now till when you and I started.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: You and I started when I started my new job.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: You and I started our sessions.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: That's neat.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: I I had new co-workers, and one of my coworkers, her name is Michaela.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: Her and I do the same job.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: There's just her and I this we do the same job.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: And she is almost the complete opposite of me, in the sense that she her energy cup is overflowing.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: And from the time she wakes up till the time she goes to bed, and she's the type of person that wakes up at four in the morning and she's got words, and she's gonna share them with me, even through text.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: She'll be texting me at four in the morning.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: But so I started this new job, and in the mornings we're getting things ready, and she is just talk, talk, talk.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, it's 7:30, Michaela.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not waking up.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm not ready for words.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_02: I need another hour, you know, I need my coffee.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I was thinking she's not even talking about anything really meaningful.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: This is surface talk.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: She's asking me how my night was, you know, what did what are my plans for the weekend?
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: What am I making for dinner tonight?
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_02: And but she just kept at it.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_02: And finally, I'm like, well, I don't want to be rude.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just gonna answer her questions.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: So I started answering her questions.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: And this just snowballed into she is one of my dearest friends because she she really forced me to conversate, which led, you know, the silly, silly questions led to meaningful conversations.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_02: And it I started to feel comfortable to open up and share with her my thoughts, my feelings, and just to be vulnerable.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I can't think about, I can't recall any relationship I've ever had in my life, which is so sad to think about.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: But I don't know if I've had a closer friend.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: And the funny part is she didn't give me a choice.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so I just thank the Lord for her.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I could have gone anywhere to any job and been placed with any kind of any other kind of coworker.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: But God placed me with Michaela, who was gonna force me to talk and force me to come out of my shell almost to a sense where she didn't care if my answers were silly or she just she wanted to befriend me.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: And as a five, I feel like those are the types of people we need in our lives.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I I want to know that someone wants to be my friend that helps me open up and trust them.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if that answered your question.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness, Georgia, that's so beautiful.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: It speaks to a couple things that that denotes risk on your part, risk opening up, risk giving energy and receiving her care, her curiosity, and also giving it back.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: And what a gift and a reminder of it's never too late to open our heart in that journey.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that has snowballed into other things because along the same timing, and again, you know, sometimes life just has these moments where it's like to 10 things or changing all at once or are happening and colliding.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I saw how that our conversations, but all the other things the Lord was orchestrating, you taking that step with her, taking the step with the group of people at work, speaking up at work, speaking up in your family, sharing and being vulnerable with your husband, learning what it taking the effort and intentional action and being a bonus mom.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: All these different things that I know would have felt impossible before, but you really stepped into.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: And the Lord met you in it, all of it.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: It was like once I I saw that I could manage or I could have a friend, or I could speak up at work.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_02: It was like I was chipping away a little bit at a time.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: Once I realized that I can do these things, I can have these relationships.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: They're not draining, they're actually fulfilling, they're actually filling my cup.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_02: And then I think that's when it just opened up a whole new person within me.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I started taking on things like coaching high school volleyball that I never would have thought I would do, I would do.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: It was really just like my true self had been dampened and living in fear, fear of this energy depletion for so long until finally I wasn't.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_02: I came out and it was a relief.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: It was like this burden had just been lifted.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: So beautiful because I will say, we all know girls' volleyball is not without its drama, with not without its trials and tribulations.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: And yet, you, and I had the privilege of journeying through some of it, you didn't let that thwart you.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: You didn't let that be, well, this is hard, so it must have not been the right thing, or I'm just not cut out for this because it's too whatever.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: Instead, you used the tools that you had been given and these other moments where the Lord met you in that risk and that asking for greater capacity, and you owned it.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: And there really was beautiful fruit from that time, and that's just one small sliver of this beautiful.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: I love it too because the other piece it shows for those of us who love fives, and maybe at first were not received well, our curiosity, our energy, our constant inviting.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: This story of your friend leaning in and not quitting, I think is a great encouragement to those of us who are feeling maybe a little bit stymied or blocked, or that there's walls up.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: But I think you would say, keep leaning in, keep asking.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's important.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: Even if we say no.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_02: And just answer their silly questions.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: If you're meeting someone new, just answer the silly question.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: You don't know where the conversation may lead.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_02: It may lead to the best friendship of your life.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love it.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: As we round up here or round down, however we want to put it, um, I would love to just hear any other last-minute things that you would share with a five who's standing at the edge of a relationship that either terrifies them or who wants to move toward connection, but doesn't is afraid they don't have enough to give.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many things, but what are some of your insights that would help encourage my friend listening today?
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: First, I think I would say when it comes to we can be hoarders of time and even hoarders of knowledge, there's some relief in not knowing everything.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I had to remind myself at times, I am not all-knowing, God is all-knowing.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: And that's when I really shifted and I realized I was using this knowledge gaining as a coping mechanism instead of leaning into my relationship with Christ.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: So let go of this idea of you have to know to have relationships or to carry on important conversations.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have to know everything.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like let God do the let God do the all-knowing.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_02: And then I think, you know, as a five, I think it's in the triad.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: We have a little bit of that eight.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_02: Eights are very good at being bold.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I would encourage a five to be bold.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: Don't wait for someone to approach you.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_02: Or if there's something that's on your mind or on your heart, don't overthink it.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: Just say it.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: That would be my advice.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_02: Because I feel like I have missed out on so many opportunities in so many relationships, just out of fear, out of fear of what it might cost me.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: Georgia, you just described the kind of courage that the five needs and is available to this, to someone who's willing to ask and to be honest.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the fear never goes away about depletion.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's there, but you're showing what it looks like to still step forward with that faith and find the Lord meeting you in it.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's really incredible.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: Really incredible.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: Have you in in this journey?
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: Are you seeing the Lord answer your prayer for a miracle?
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's so much to the sense I I never would have expected we would be where we're at today with my relationship with my brother.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: It and it wasn't even the one miracle we thought, it was multiple miracles.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: And there's no explanation other than that.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's been multiple miracles.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: All glory to God because I am not in the middle of the story.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: I am not a facilitator.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: I just am a witness to an astounding miracle that there are very few words for, except for what feels beyond repair and so impossible is never for the Lord.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: And he makes a way.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think not always our way, but he makes a way.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Georgia, thank you.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for giving us the real story.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: It is what you've given today is an incredible gift for fellow fives who are listening and going, ah, me too.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's not easy to step into this and share so vulnerably.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't take this lightly, and it's a huge gift that you've given.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: So just thank you.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for being a part of this and offering hope and encouragement and a little bit of insight of what it looks like to move beyond our starting point.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's my pleasure.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm still learning.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's um, this is just just the beginning, I think.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: So yes, it's definitely a journey.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so those who are listening wherever, wherever you find yourself in your story, whether you're standing at the edge of a relationship that feels costly, or you're in a slow work of reconciliation, or you're just wondering, can there be more capacity for me?
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: May this story prove that the Lord will meet you wherever you are.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: And He's not afraid to take you as you are and do the work with you.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: So you definitely have more to give than you think.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: And and in God's presence, you're the safest that you could be.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: So, Georgia, thanks again for your time.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: You're welcome.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for joining me for the Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: If this conversation spoke to you, please share it with a friend.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: You can also visit simply wholehearted.com to take the free Enneagram quiz and also get your personalized podcast playlist specific for your Enneagram type.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: And remember, friend, your starting point doesn't have to be your stuff point.