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Interpreting Your Dreams to Manifest Your Desires with Athena Laz · Reclaiming Consciousness

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: When we dream, we're given the exact right symbols that we need.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really up to us to develop a relationship with those symbols.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of the time people will say to me, What do you think about dream dictionaries?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: ones that say like an apple means this or teeth means that.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I think those kind of books are very helpful because they can prime people to begin to think about symbolic language.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: But at the end of the day, one symbol cannot mean the same thing to two people.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Reclaiming Consciousness.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Elise Bassine, spiritual mentor, breathwork practitioner, and owner and CEO of Elise Breeds.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: For many years, our consciousness has been hijacked by societal and cultural programming, religion, the media, and familial and ancestral trauma.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Right now, during this epic time in history, people are waking up, realizing who they really are, and reclaiming the pieces of their consciousness that they unknowingly gave away.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: This podcast is an exploration of how so many spectacular humans are leading the way in exiting the matrix and reclaiming who they really are and what they're capable of.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: In this show, you'll meet exceptional people who are paving the way in raising consciousness and creating a new way of living on this earth.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Get ready to go deep.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: Now let's dive in.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Hi everyone, welcome back to the show.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: So this week's guest is so interesting.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: And it's so funny because I have never had a dream interpreter on the show.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, I've never even spoken to a dream interpreter, and I've never even read anything about dream interpretation, mainly because I think I already knew how to interpret my dreams.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: I thought that anyway, but talking to Athena was like very expanding for me because it actually helped me to tune into the ways that I was like already working with my dreams.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then I started to work with them even more intentionally after I had this conversation with her.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: So Athena is a dream interpreter and she helps you learn how to work with your dreams in order to manifest what you desire in order to heal and just really to understand yourself better.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: And we have a really great conversation about dreams.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I got to ask her some really funny slash personal questions about my own dreams, which you'll get to hear on the show.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: Slightly embarrassing, but not really, but kind of.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, this is a really great conversation.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: She also has two books, and you should definitely follow her on Instagram.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: Her work is very profound, and I think you're gonna love this conversation.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: Just a couple of things here.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: The Metamorphosis is starting again in the beginning of August.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I couldn't be more excited for this round because this program is everything.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is my body of work.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's foundational to every other thing that I teach.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: So if you have been in my world for a while, if you've been listening to me for a while and you have not yet done the metamorphosis, now is your moment because right now we're an early bird.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's only$1,500 and there's a payment plan.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: And that is like a no-brainer for how life-changing this program is.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: So if you don't know about the metamorphosis, it is the very efficient, effective, and rapid process that I have created to dissolve familial and ancestral trauma.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: And why do we want to dissolve familial and ancestral trauma?
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because that is the very thing that stops you from creating what you want to create in your life, from starting your business, from growing your business, from being able to make decisions is the thing that stops you from having the type of relationships that you desire to have.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: It is everything.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: And if you are experiencing any kind of challenge in your life, if you're experiencing a behavior pattern that you don't know how to shift, I will tell you right now, trying to change the behavior is not the answer because the behavior is a symptom of a deeper childhood trauma or what I call core wounding that everyone has, that once you learn what it is and you learn how to shift it and you learn how to recognize it and work with it, your life becomes so much easier.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: And what I love about this program is that I give you the tools to be able to navigate and shift triggers on your own moving forward.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because this is not about like, oh, now, you know, I'm gonna do this eight weeks of work and then everything is gonna change.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, everything will change, but you have to maintain it by continuing to implement the tools that I give you.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I give you very tangible, actionable ways to create sustainable, long-lasting, permanent results in your life.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: So we're starting in the beginning of August.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's eight weeks.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: There are four main types of childhood trauma that you are going to heal.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: And we all have it, and they are what I call your core wounds.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a little different for everyone, but the main ones that you will dive into and shift are your birth story or birth trauma, which is the energy that your mother was feeling from conception up until three months old, and how that impacted you and how that creates a lens through which you see the world.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: And you will shift that.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: And usually your birth trauma, your birth story will have a lot to do with the way that you start things.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: And if you have trouble starting things, or like you know exactly how to do it and what to do, but you just don't do it, or you start it and you don't finish it, that's all birth stuff.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: So you'll learn how to shift that inside of the metamorphosis.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then the mother wound, and this is not your normal mother wound work.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: I take you on a much deeper dive to get to the deeper layers of enmeshment, the ancestral stuff that your mother passed on to you, and the ways that you, as a coping mechanism, enmesh with her energy and how you do that in your other relationships, and how that creates symptoms that you don't like, like people pleasing, or not being able to ask for what you want, or not being able to be in your authority, or whatever it is, or even in business, it can be how you're afraid to raise your prices, or it can show up in so many different ways, but the mother wound will be directly related to you know your feelings of being not enough, not good enough, perfectionism.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: It will usually contribute to if you have any struggles with client attraction, and then also if you have a fear of people judging or criticizing you, or if you're constantly worrying about what other people think of you, that is usually mother wound stuff.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then you will also be healing the father wound, which usually will be directly related to your confidence, your security, how you feel safe in the world.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: And if you are constantly doubting yourself or you struggle with a lot of indecision, that can definitely be father wound stuff.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then the other one is sibling, your sibling wound.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: And usually that shows up in comparing yourself to others or putting yourself in competition.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: And Instagram is a great place to play out your sibling wound.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: Also, the sibling wound can often be played out in the workplace where everyone goes in competition with each other and tries to compete for the love of the boss because the the sibling wound is rooted in this unconscious belief that there's not enough love to go around.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: And when we don't think there's enough love to go around, we think that we have to compete for it or compare ourselves to others to see how we measure up, to see if we're deserving of love.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: And that will show up in business, that will show up in your relationships, and it might be showing up in very sneaky ways that you don't know about until you do the metamorphosis.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: So if you have been doing a ton of work, but there's still challenges that you come up against.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: If you're coming up against an income ceiling, if you're struggling to get your business off the ground, if you are struggling with your confidence around putting yourself out there, all of these things are related to familial and ancestral trauma.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: And you will shift it inside of this program.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: Listen to the other episodes of the podcast.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: The results speak for themselves.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone who comes through this program creates a massive shift in their life, whether it is quitting their job and starting a business.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: We've had a ton of those, growing your business, quantum leaping income levels, having complete new awarenesses of your purpose, what it is that you're meant to do, and then moving in that direction.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: Also having huge awarenesses around your particular process that you do with people, what your specific medicine is, your specific healing modality, those are all things that happen in this program.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: I guarantee you you will leave with some major ahas about what your next steps are and how you're going to get there and why you haven't gotten there yet.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then you will get there.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then also the really cool byproduct of this program is that everyone's relationships get so much better.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: I cannot even tell you how many times people have said, oh my gosh, my relationship with my husband has completely changed.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, my relationship with my mother has completely changed.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: And you don't have to say anything to these people, by the way.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: They will just change on their own because you're doing the work.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna do a whole other episode about my story of how I healed my mother wound inside of my relationship with my husband to really illustrate what that looks like through my own personal story.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: And you can also go back and listen to all the other episodes from people who've gone through the program.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: And anyone who's worked with me privately has also gone through the program.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: So anybody on the podcast who is working with me privately was in the certification or is in the metamorphosis, all are people who have gotten amazing results from this program.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: So we're starting in the beginning of August.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: Right now is the time to join because it's an early bird.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think the payment plan's only$375 a month for four payments.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, and also inside the program, it's eight weeks, but there's four support calls, plus there's a telegram chat that I'm gonna be coaching in four days a week.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like so much support.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then you have access to the tools for the rest of your life.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: So this is like a no-brainer, it just in the value alone and the fact that you're gonna be able to use these tools for the rest of your life.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: I can't tell you how many past clients will reach out to me and be like, I still do all of the breathwork from the metamorphosis and they still are benefiting from it.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: So this is not something that is just about eight weeks, you will use this stuff for the rest of your life.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I will stop talking now.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: Please reach out if you have any questions about the metamorphosis or about the mothership.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: We still are running the special bonus where when you sign on for the mothership, which is my 12-month membership, you will receive a 60-minute call with me.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: Also, if you've already signed up for the metamorphosis and you'd like to just switch to the mothership, somebody just did that and she's so excited.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: You can also apply what you paid for the metamorphosis to join the mothership.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: I will really stop talking now.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sending you guys so much love and enjoy the episode.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, everyone.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to the show.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm super excited to introduce you to today's guest.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think we're going to have an amazing conversation.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: Today I have Athena Laz on the show.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: So welcome to the show, Athena.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, it's so great to be here with you.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me on.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: So can you just give the audience a little like rundown of who you are, what you do, and just maybe a little bit about what got you to where you are now?
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm a dream teacher, an intuitive, and a psychologist.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I wrote a book called The Alchemy of Your Dreams and the Deliberate Dreamers Journal.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm currently writing my next book, and I have an Oracle deck that's coming out.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: And my work really marries psychology and mysticism together.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I do that through multiple pathways.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: One of the pathways is dreaming, the other is through intuition, and the next pathway will be through symbols.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of found myself in this work in a way.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: When I was younger, I had a lot of psychic experiences.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: I still obviously have those now.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: I had a lot of lucid dreams, didn't know what they were, and really had quite a lot of strange experiences as a child.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then I, you know, grew up, had to figure out what I wanted to do with my life, and I was really drawn to the field of psychology.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I became a psychologist.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very grateful that I did that.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: I don't practice as a traditional psychologist anymore because I just incorporate two different and vast fields into it.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm very glad that I have the background because it kind of all comes together.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, in a way, I think all those childhood experiences and then having a love for psychology and then having a love for writing kind of amalgamated into like what I do now.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, I love that.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I can totally relate.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, I have a background in psychology as well.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that it is important to just kind of understand that perspective too.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm curious to know too, like how you got into dreams specifically.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: What made you be like, I can help people with dreams or I can interpret dreams?
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: My own vivid dream life was a good starting point.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I've always taken uh my dreams seriously.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I've kind of just had this natural love for dreaming.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then I was in traditional private practice for quite some time.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: And in about 2016, I was standing outside of my practice space, and I just had this download come in.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like, you need to go online, you have to reach a bigger audience.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well, work with more people.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I kind of got like flashes of inspiration in that moment.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: And at the time, I really didn't want to do that.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: That wasn't something that I wanted to do.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't sure that I wanted to be online.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't even know if I wanted to be in a sort of like public presence capacity, but I had this like strong pull to do that.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I kind of put it out there and I said, okay, if I do this, this was in South Africa at the time as well, which is a totally different kind of environment to the US where we uh currently live.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: I said, if I'm gonna do this, I just want it to be relatively easy to like onboard into that space.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to be kind of shown what to do.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: Within like a week, a friend who I hadn't spoken to in something like 16 years, we went to primary school together, messaged me.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: She messaged me on Facebook at the time.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: And she said, What are you doing?
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, This is what I'm thinking about doing.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: And she said, Oh, you need a column.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: And at the she had just become the deputy editor for Cosmopolitan magazine at the time.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so it just came together and I told her all my ideas, and we kind of worked out which avenues I would be speaking on.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: And dreams with intuition, with developing practices for intuition were just the two fields that I really gravitated towards and still do, right?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: So there's no kind of good answers to why, it's just the how, I guess, more.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, okay.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: This is so interesting.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess I would love to know more of your perspective on dreams.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, for example, some people think it's like a representation of your psyche and like what's going on in your psyche.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then other people will lean more towards this idea of it's us living in the astral plane or like what we're doing, like what different aspects of us are living out in like other dimensions or other like timelines or something like that.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, what is your perspective on what dreams are?
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: So, my perspective is that it's both, right?
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so in my book, I write about how in dreaming, it's actually a spectrum of consciousness, very much how we have a spectrum of consciousness in waking life, right?
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: So we still carry our psyche, even though we can have, you know, you can meditate and then all of a sudden receive much higher guidance.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: So to me, it's psyche and non-physical, but depending on the person and what they do during their waking day will depend on what kind of dreams they have.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: And that notion actually isn't a unique one.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: That school of thought has actually been spoken about in a lot of ancient traditions, right?
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: We in Western culture tend to think of dreams in this sort of psyche aspect of it because most people operate from that space.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: I find a lot of people who are very spiritually inclined sometimes also forget to include that aspect of dreaming.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: So they might be very good astral travelers or lucid dreamers, but they might have say conflict with their partner, and that comes up in dreaming.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's kind of both.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned symbols too.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: What is your perspective on that?
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: Or like, what are some symbols that mean certain things in dreams, or like how do you look at the use of symbols?
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think symbols are so powerful, and I think we can use them in such interesting ways.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I always like to tell people that when we dream, we're given the exact right symbols that we need.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really up to us to develop a relationship with those symbols.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of the time people will say to me, What do you think about dream dictionaries?
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: ones that say like an apple means this or teeth means that.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I think those kind of books are very helpful because they can prime people to begin to think about symbolic language, but at the end of the day, one symbol cannot mean the same thing to two people, right?
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I always like to give the example of an apple.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: Say you and I have the exact same dream, and we dream we're standing in a field and we're about to take a bite of an apple, and we both do.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: And we wake up in the morning, and let's say in waking life, I'm allergic to apples, and let's say that you aren't.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: That dream, just by virtue of the fact that in waking life we have different relationships to apples, will mean fundamentally different things.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so the symbolic value of it becomes very powerful.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I would take that dream to mean that I was biting into something poisonous that could harm me.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas you might take that dream to mean that, oh, that's this is a golden opportunity.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: There's life in the apple, but there's all sorts of meaning we could ascribe.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so I really feel like dream work and symbolic work is kind of like an art because it really becomes masterful in the way that you work with your own consciousness.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: And what about like recurring dreams?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because I know a lot of people will have not only recurring dreams, which I do have, but I also have dreams that I go back to like the same place where it's like might be a different dream, but I'm in this place that I only go to in my dream.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like one of them is like this weird mall.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's the only one I can like fully remember right now, but it's just so random because like I've never been there in real life, but I've been there so many times in my dreams, and I will have different dreams that take place in this random mall.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's interesting.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: I love recurring dreams, right?
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's two things to that.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: The one is like you were saying right at the beginning, you could in non-physical be traveling to a very specific place, right?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: That could be in an astral place, or it could simply be a part of your psyche that you're very accustomed to going to.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: The goal with that kind of thing would then be to wake up and see what was the tone, the emotional tone of the dream, right?
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: So even if it is random, like maybe you're just shopping or you're meeting strange people or people that you remember, but you can't really place how.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: The goal is then, well, for me, it would be to write down on waking whatever you can remember, and then the next time it happens or the next few times, write it, write it, write it down, journal it down, and then go back and look and see if you have any repetitive themes that come up besides the location.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so that would be the very pragmatic way of approaching it.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: Another way would be to learn to use that place as lucid trigger.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: So next time you're in the mall, you go, Oh, I'm in the mall.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: It means I'm dreaming, and then that can wake you up.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then in that space, you can explore what it is or where it is, should I say.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: So interesting.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: Now I'm like, now that we're having this conversation, I'm thinking about all of the dreams that I like have had more than once.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I used to actually have a lot of scary dreams, and sometimes I still do, where I'm like, I'm either getting chased.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, usually I'm getting chased by something, and then I try to scream and nothing comes out.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's the worst.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: What did that say about me?
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: Did I just like share something really like?
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: No, don't worry.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: I actually don't have that one as much anymore, but I still do.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: I still do.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I used to have it a lot more when I was younger.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's so helpful actually for people listening to this.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: Firstly, repetitive dreams when they pop up in the same way that they used to happen when you were a kid, it's really helpful to really then just pay attention to what's happening again in waking life, right?
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because there's something obviously triggering in waking life that is leading you to a repetitive nightmare.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: I always feel like nightmares are really helpful because it's pretty much the psyche's way of saying this is something that maybe has been overwhelming to look at many times.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: Or it's something maybe you're being given clues in waking life, but you're not really affording enough at paying enough attention to what that is, right?
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: So then your mind, your psyche will, your spirit will wake you up to the fact that you need to pay attention.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: And it does that through frightening imagery.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: So being chased, right?
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: Either it's a part of you that's chasing you.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: It could be a situation, a relationship, anything.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: It could be a work thing, even, right?
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: And not being able to scream, it's literally about not having power, in a way.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: To me, that's how I would read it, right?
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: Not being able to voice and also just being in absolute fear.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: So then waking up and saying, okay, what's triggering fear in my life?
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: What makes me feel afraid?
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then looking at that because the instinct, I mean, I know you know this because of your background and the work you do, but the instinct is to want to like pull away and forget what the dream is or forget the emotional tone of it.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: But really, the work that's helpful is to just kind of really dive into it.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: Being chaste is also one of the most common fear dreams that people have.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's also because of our collective ancestry as humans that it's such a primal fear, you know.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I think there's something that you touch on that when you have those kind of dreams.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's so interesting.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: But sometimes I'll have dreams too that I don't remember, but I wake up.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: This doesn't happen all the time, but it will happen sometimes where I wake up and I'm scared.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I've will wake up my husband and I'll be like, What the hell?
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then, like, once I wake him up, like it totally brings me back to life.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, why am I so scared?
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: This is stupid, because of like his reaction to like, why are you waking me up?
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: kind of.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: But like in the moment when you wake up, it's like so real, so it's so like intense.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, you do want to forget about it because it's just scary.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: I have so many questions.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna just talk about my own dreams the whole time, I promise.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: I love it because I feel like it grounds it, you know, for people listening.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I'm gonna bring up one other recurring thing that happens.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: And this is like slightly embarrassing, but I'm just gonna say it anyway because I love your take on it.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I've been married for 11 years.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: I've been with my husband for 15 years, but before that, I was in another long-term relationship with somebody that I had like a very deep soul connection with.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: And like, we don't talk anymore, but like I have nothing but love for him, you know, and I know he feels the same about me.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like we just had like a very deep connection.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I have recurring dreams about him all the time, but it's almost like I'm like re, I don't know how to describe it.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: We have this land that we live in together still, and it's in the dream state.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: And like every time I have the dream, it's like I'm going back into it.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like I'm pushing play from like the last dream.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's just like going on.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's like the relationship has continued in whatever this realm is.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: Then when I have the dream again, it's like it's just continuing.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like you were just pushing play and watching the next episode.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really interesting.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I've done a lot of work to just like cut cords with that relationship.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think that I'm like in the waking state, like wanting to be in that relationship anymore.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: And like it's been so real to me at times that I have almost reached out to him to be like, are you having these dreams too?
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's so real and it's so like palpable.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's different than like a regular dream that seems a little more like elusive.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's much more like real and like the feeling of it is so palpable.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how else to describe it.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: No, I mean, it sounds amazing the way you have described it.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: We can dream in series, exactly like you're saying, where you can pick up and have memories.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: It is literally like you're picking up another life.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's kind of the feeling of it.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that when you have such a deep connection with someone that that really can continue in that space.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: I would be interested to hear if it is shared dreaming, whether he's having the same kind of dreams as you at the same time.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: Shared dreaming is real, it is something that happens probably more often than we all think, especially in modern culture.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think there are many, many ways to look at this, but because you said it's not like in waking life, this is a relationship that you're not wanting to go back to.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: There isn't some like unconscious impulse to go back to that relationship.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: I just think it speaks to the fact that our non-physical parts of us are so much bigger and multifaceted than we sometimes think.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: Again, I would say that at that point it would be very helpful to become lucid because you're having the memory of it, right?
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: So many people don't remember in their dreams.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: They will have a dream and it's just like boom, you're in it, you don't know where you are, you have no idea how you've gotten there.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: But when you're like, oh, I'm in this familiar place again, this is what happened last time, in the same way you do with waking life.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think that is a call to really start to become more lucid.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: And right, lucid meaning kind of more awake.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so when you're saying like it's so vivid, it's so real, in a way, yes, it is, not in a way, that in the dreaming, it is real, right?
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: We tend to think of our dreams as not being real, but it's just a different form of awareness, and that awareness it is real, right?
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: And has consequence with what we think the nature of reality is.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a really big broad question, that kind of dream, like what it could potentially mean.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: My I guess my answer is instead of saying what it is, I would say work with it and see how you could move it forward.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's an interesting thing about the lucidity thing because I've never, I've never been able to do that.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I will say it's not like I've tried really hard.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's something that I know I've known about for a long time, but I never like fully put my whole self behind trying to do it.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know why.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like there's something scary about it for some reason.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's something about it that feels like, oh my God, well, if I have control in that area too, then it's almost like there never be a place where I'm, I don't know.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: There's something about that where I'm like not in control.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: It feels better to me or safer to me to not be in control of that realm.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: Does that make sense?
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: It makes so much sense.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like it's a really honest thing to say.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: I run a nine-month dream program, and so many people say that to me at the beginning.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's often a motivator for why they'll braver to do the work.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think that there are multiple pathways to spirit, there are multiple pathways to growth, right?
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so I always say to people, if lucidity is something that calls to you, then practice it.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: But I think there is a deep part of us, I will say that I think there's a deep part of our own psyches that does try to wake us up consciously to the fact that we are not just players in the dream, right?
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we can really wake up.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: And there is huge links to that because if we wake up in dreaming, if we're dreaming our reality, which is pretty much what so many spiritual schools of thought will tell us, even physicists to some degree, if we're dreaming our reality, we have to be deliberate with our intention, we have to be deliberate with our emotion, right?
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: We have to be in alignment.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: But when we fall asleep and we lose all of that, then what's happening?
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: We spend one-third of our lives sleeping, right?
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: In Tibetan practices, the Tibetan practices of dream yoga, the whole point is to wake up and use that time, the dream space, so that when you die, I guess, you are awake to the moment of death and you can reincarnate consciously.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yes, in a way, it's hugely frightening, I think, unconsciously, those concepts, because it really forces responsibility onto you and it really forces you to be almost like quite a heavy responsibility can be perceived in that way.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: But again, multiple pathways to spur multiple pathways to growth so that it doesn't need to be one.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I think also as I'm kind of reflecting on why that feels scary to me, I think it's just because for most of my life I've been working so hard in this realm on myself and being like super intentional and having agency over my thoughts and everything that maybe it's like sleep gets to be a break from that.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: I get it.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: I fully get it.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I would be like if I said I was lucid every night.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: No way.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely not.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: So, what are some like ways that you teach people to become lucid?
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: What are some ways that can make it easier for you to do that?
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think one of the easiest ways to do that is just to really bring mindfulness into your waking day practice.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: One of the most kind of common things that people teach about in this way is that you do reality tests, right?
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: So as you're going about your day, you want to just stop and say, Is this a dream?
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: You might want to put your hand against the wall and just check if your hand can go through the wall, because in dreaming it's so malleable.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: Your hand often can go through the wall.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: And just by doing those kind of two practices, that usually is enough to instigate lucid dreaming, especially if the intention is there.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: I will say this though, that fear is one of the biggest barriers to being able to do it, because it's almost like you will keep yourself out of that space because of the fear factor.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: But really, there isn't anything really to fear in the lucid dream space.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because if something comes up that you don't want or it's difficult to deal with, right?
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: You can just wake yourself up by saying, like, wake up and you should wake up, or you can just remove the image.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: But I guess that's a different kind of fear.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: And now that you're saying that, I feel like that does happen to me a lot where I will wake myself up from a dream, like where I'll be like, okay, I need to wake up because I need to get out of this.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll have that awareness or something, but it's not like fully lucid where I'm like creating the dream.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: What would you say is like the best way to use the information from your dreams to move forward in your life or like create what you want or manifest?
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: What is the best way of doing that?
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think the best way is to begin to pay attention and to know that your dreaming, let's say, mind, is giving you helpful information.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: Just by putting those two things in place, your dreams can shift and alter because you're assuming that relationship with the psyche and dreaming or the non-physical part.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: So the idea for Google came through a dream.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: So many scientific discoveries have come through dreaming.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so I always tell people that like you can have so much healing can happen, so much inspiration can happen in your dreams, but you really need to respect the space and to treat it kind of like a sacred space.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't need to be anything big, it can be something really simple.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like just as you're about to fall asleep, you can just put the intention out that your dreams will be helpful and that you will remember them on waking, and then to wake up and actually do something with that dream.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: So even if it's just like turning over and saying to your husband, this is what I just dreamt about, or just jotting down whatever you can remember, a simple like five-minute practice, you will see how much guidance you're given.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: I have yet to meet someone.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've I had a lot when the book launched originally uh two years ago, I had a few people come and tell me, like, my dreams are just rubbish.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: There is no way I said to them, like, just try for three months.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: If you come back to me in three months and tell me that it's absolute garbage, okay, we can have a proper conversation about this.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: And not one of those people did.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, a few of them all signed up.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: But it yeah, because it's so surprising.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's like, oh wow, it's actually so simple.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, this actually does work.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: This is a practice that I can do.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't cost me anything.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then that actually becomes really exciting for a lot of people.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's funny, I actually will set the intention, especially if there's something that I'm really wanting to move through.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: I will set the intention a lot of times that like it's gonna get worked out in the dream state, or that like anything that I need to know would be revealed in the dream state.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: I don't always then follow through with that in the morning.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: It just kind of depends.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it is something that I've been kind of doing, working with dreams more than maybe I'm giving myself credit for.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of people do because a lot of people, even my clients all the time will tell me about their dreams and it'll always have to do with like the work that we're doing and stuff.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: And usually I find them pretty easy to interpret based on the work that we're doing.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: Is there any other like ways that you can kind of work with them to create something, like even while you're dreaming or different symbols and dreams, working with that stuff to kind of grow faster or get momentum?
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: You definitely can.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: I write a whole chapter on manifesting in my book, The Alchemy of Your Dreams, because I I give like a few practices for that.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: I would say if we believe that reality is created, right, by the way we think and feel, by our alignment.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: Let's say that the vortex, like Abraham Hicks would say, is a non-physical space.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: It happens in the vortex first and then comes into waking reality, us being the bridge, right?
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: Our vibration, our frequency being the bridge.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: If in dreaming you go to, well, you do, your non-physical part of you is active in the non-physical, let's say, vortex, that is much more malleable than waking life.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, an example that I give in my book is like if you're trying to say, manifest a house and it isn't coming easily, or you have barriers that keep coming up, you can do a dream practice where you are creating that in the dreaming, and you can see what comes up.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: One, you'll see your unconscious or your subconscious beliefs about it.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: And even if you're not lucid, just incubating that kind of dream will give you that information through the symbols, and then you can work with that in waking life, transmute it, and that usually shifts the energy, which then helps things get created faster, right?
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: So it sounds complicated, but it's actually really easy.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do the symbols fit into that again?
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: There's kind of two pathways.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: The first is lucid, you can you do it lucidly, right?
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's probably harder for most people, right?
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: But say we're just doing it in regular dreaming before you fall asleep.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna try and dream incubate.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: So you're gonna say, tonight I'm gonna incubate my dream house, and I'm going to see how I can get that done in waking life, right?
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: So you're putting out this directions for what your psyche and non-physical part of you is going to focus on, right?
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then your dreaming mind usually will respond.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it doesn't happen the first night.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: You hold the intention up until the dream comes, right?
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because again, sometimes unconscious fears can really get in the way of that.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: So you may want something, but in reality, you have a fear about something or a block about something that needs to be resolved before the thing can come.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: But you're literally saying to your dreaming mind, this is what I'm wanting to do tonight, and I'm wanting it to link to waking life.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then the dreaming world responds, it gives you a dream experience.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: You wake up and write what that is.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: So, one of the examples that I shared in the book with this is that someone did this practice, they go into the dreaming, they have a regular dream where they are about to have their buy their magnificent dream house, and all of a sudden they land up in the basement and they're trapped and they can't get out.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: It turns into a nightmare, they have to wake themselves up.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: They worked on, oh, what is it that feels scary about that?
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then they manage to clear the blocks and create what they wanted.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: I love that so much.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like that is actually just another really great tool for recognizing and moving through blocks, which is like a lot of obviously what I do with people too.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_01: So that's really cool.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: I have to ask this because this actually just came up last night.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: I was at a get together with my little group of friends from high school, and one of them said something about how her grandmother passed away recently, and she had had a dream that she was like walking downstairs with her grandmother, and she forgot about it.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then one of her friends said, and I guess her friends, like, I don't know if it was her friend's grandfather or father, whatever.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, Oh, I had a dream that I was walking down the stairs with my father, and that's supposed to mean that that person is about to die.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then it reminded my friend, she was like, Oh my God, I had that dream about my grandmother right before she died.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_01: So is that a thing?
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because I didn't know that that was a thing.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: So, firstly, I think we are prepared often for significant people who pass away in our lives.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think our spirit and non-physical often prepares us as difficult as that may be to hear for some people.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then at the same time, we can have those kind of dreams that actually have nothing to do with death, and they're more symbolic about like maybe a descent that we're having.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: And this again is learning the practice.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: I have never heard of that, that as a dream meaning, but I can tell you this that anyone listening to this podcast now who now has that concept in their mind, say that dream comes up for them randomly, even if it's like five years down the line, that would probably be a dream worth paying attention to because the information has been primed.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: We have connected a symbolic image with meaning, and we've done that by speaking about it.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's the power of shared beliefs and sharing beliefs that get passed down.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: In The Alchemy of Your Dreams, I write about an experience my mother had.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: So she will always, and I say always because literally it happens all the time.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: If she has a dream of someone in a wedding dress or her being in a wedding dress with some particular person, it usually means that that person will pass away.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it crept her out completely when she was much younger.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: But now, you know, she's well into her 60s and she's not so afraid of it.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think a wedding dress, there's so many that there's so much meaning that can go into that.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um the more you work with your own dreams, the more you realize how your own spirit speaks to you.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's a lot like mediumship.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's something that I'm we'll talk about in my new book, right?
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: We often, when we work with spirit, we work with symbols that feel appropriate to us.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then also they will work with us in a way that they know we will get the message, right?
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so those kind of stories and those kind of dream meanings, they come up because we're willing to be in conversation with spirit.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: I definitely don't consider myself like a medium at all, but I have had experiences where people that I knew that have passed away connected with me and told me like specific things.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like it was because they knew that I could see them or hear them or whatever, I was open to it.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: Can you talk more about like the connection between dreams and mediumship?
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's definitely something that I've written a lot about and will be in my next book, right?
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_00: The connection for me comes down to a state of awareness, right?
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: When we're any sort of like intuitive practice, mediumship practice, dream practice, when we're dreaming and we're dreaming with guides or deceased parents or anyone, really, there's a foundational belief that we accept, and that is that the connection is real, and then that form of awareness happens on a spectrum.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: So, say you're driving your car and you hear something, you clear audience, right?
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_00: You hear something to pay attention because it's the intuitive faculty of you, right?
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: Medianship and dreaming, it's the same thing, you've just linked the two together.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: So you still being the bridge between the dreaming, well, the connection to non-physical, it's just two different avenues of the same thing, right?
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's literally just your perception is pointed in that direction.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: Medianship, it's the word we use for in waking life to connect to spirit, right?
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: In dreaming, we say dreaming, it's the same thing because our awareness, greater awareness is what does it.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's so interesting.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: Now I'm like having these memories of different medium type of experiences I've had.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_01: Usually it'll be like a specific thing.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like my grandmother, who I was very close with, I've connected with her probably just really a handful of times since she passed away in a real way.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'll like tune into her energy a lot.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: But I remember this was like years ago, she came to me and told me.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Me that my mom was going to feel overly responsible for my aunt when my aunt got sick.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: And at the time my aunt wasn't really sick, but now my aunt is very sick.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: And my mom spends a lot of her time being with her or visiting her or whatever.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: And it's funny because I always think about that that it was like just a very specific message.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not really tuning into that all the time, but it's like for whatever reason, I became focused in that direction and it just like came to me.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like happening.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's right on.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this is the thing, right?
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think most of the time when I have these kind of conversations, right?
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, I'm not a medium.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, wait, that one time.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, and if I had that time, and what about this time?
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the thing.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's fine.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: That is the faculty within us that I think we have.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think everyone needs to be, say, like a medium, that that's your profession and that's what you do.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: But I think when we acknowledge that that actually is something that happens and is meaningful, that that is really when we begin to open that up a bit more if we want.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_00: When I think about mediumship, I always think about, oh, it's me in relation to spirit.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's actually spirit in relation to you.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's your grandmother coming to you because actually she can see the timelines and she can see that now in this time space, your mother is having a hard time because her sister is really ill, right?
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: And not to feel overburdened by it.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: So she comes to tell you to tell her that so she can take care of herself.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: They also have motivation for connecting.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes their motivation is bigger and more significant than our willingness to receive.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so if it was something that you wanted to do, you could sit down every morning for 10 minutes and just be willing to receive, right?
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_00: You could just say, I'm willing to listen and ascribe no other sort of pressure to it.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that is just how simple the practice can be.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: I often think it's sometimes there has to be a specific result.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: So we do this work for healing, or we're we're helping people transmute trauma.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: I help people work with their dreams.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_00: So when you're kind of in this kind of work, it often feels like there must be some type of solution, something that you do.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm learning that the more that I do this, sometimes it's just about being in conversation and then also being given guidance where like you have to act.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: I had an experience when I was in Cyprus with my husband, my family heritage is Cypriot, and my grandmother, who was perfectly fine at the time.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: We were visiting her, we were on holiday, and I was driving the car and I heard go on Saturday.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I heard the voice, not as in it was inside, an inside voice.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_00: It sounded like someone sitting in the passenger seat of my car and I was alone.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I heard the voice and I thought, okay, that's kind of strange.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: And not really because I have those experiences, but anyway, I went, did my shopping, did everything that I needed to do.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: And Saturday hit, and I woke up and I said to my husband, I need to go because like I got this message and I should go.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I was feeling so lazy and so tired, and I decided I would go at 2 p.m.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, long story short, my grandmother had a heart attack at like 11 that morning, and I wasn't there.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so I really now, because of that experience, I rarely pay attention when it just comes in and it's like out of the blue and it's very directive, and it there's a huge difference between guidance that is benevolent or the thinking mind that can feel like it confuses your anxiety.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so I just always tell people that if that kind of stuff comes through and you really don't understand the why of it, sometimes it's still helpful to act on it.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my God, absolutely.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_01: And this is a question that people ask me all the time, but I love your perspective on it is how can you know that difference between the intuitive hits or just like the thinking mind?
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think this is kind of where the daily kind of work comes in.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_00: So meditating is really helpful, and then also just practices in learning the differences between the voices that we have.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_00: So, like we all have an inner critic, you can hear the different.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_00: If I say to people, like, what's your inner critic sound like?
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: Most of the time they can pinpoint it almost immediately.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'll say, Okay, well, what's the benevolent voice that helps you?
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_00: If you can pinpoint your inner critic, you can absolutely pinpoint that kind of guidance.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's just that you shift your perspective.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so that usually is enough for people to go, oh wait, I can do this, even if I've been doing it in a sort of fear-based way.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I also like to tell people that the two voices can sometimes appear at the same time.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can still have a thinking mind, your mind can still be thinking when you get an intuitive hit.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes people believe that it's like you're only getting intuitive hits, and it's like this clear stream, it can get to that.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: But often you actually still have the regular thinking, and we all know what our regular thinking is like because we think like that all day long.
• 49:18
  unknown: You know.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not sure if that's like very clear, but that's the best I can, I guess, I can answer.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I say something similar, and I I always tell people too like, if you get a strong intuitive hit, it's usually not gonna feel like fear, it's not gonna feel scary, even if it's telling you what you said, go on Saturday.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's not gonna feel scary.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what I always say too.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: But I do think that it's important to discern the difference for yourself because I think it's different for everyone, too.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, how everyone receives information differently, everyone processes information differently.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_01: So there's an element of just having to cultivate your own relationship with spirit and start to learn what it is for yourself.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's always going to be different.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's so helpful what you say to truly feel that because actually the work is coming in, it's kind of like learning to trust your own connection.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's learning how to trust that what you're receiving is actually real.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I think for most people, that's like, oh, wait, yeah, it's actually that simple, right?
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_00: It can be that simple and exactly like you're saying, it's not fair.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_00: I have never really, and I say never, and I never do huge statements like that, but I have never heard of anyone who has tapped into their intuitive guidance that has told them something negative, right?
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_00: Even if it was like a health warning, like go and get checked out, it might evoke fear, like oh man, I have to go to the doctor.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_00: But there's a form of like serenity that comes with that guidance.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so if it's fear-based and it's negative and it and it offers harm or anything harmful to another person to yourself, that's not intuition.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's fear, that's anxiety, it's another kind of voice.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_00: Don't listen.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I totally agree.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's one thing that I always tell people because I will hear that all the time.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's like they're spinning out in like their own anxiety, and they're like, but what if this is my intuition telling me that like this is gonna happen?
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, no.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_01: No, exactly.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's not gonna be like that.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I know we're kind of getting close to wrapping up here, but I would just love to know, like, for you, what was one of the biggest transformations or gifts that you received from learning how to do this dream work?
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think one of the hugest gifts that came for me with it, specifically with lucid dream work, was that it isn't conceptual, it's totally experiential and it's fully real.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's as real as waking life.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: And the only way I think, because I had intuitive hits and I had psychic hits that I knew the world was more dynamic than just this like 2D or 3D version.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_00: But I think in the back of my mind, I always had this doubt that, like, okay, well, it still could be like luck or chance or just this something.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_00: There was always this little doubt, and through lucid dreaming, that dot rarely significantly kind of like ceased to exist for me.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then I realized, like, wow, I'm such a beginner, I'm such a beginner in this, that that they're multidimensional realms that we can explore, and we do that actually, whether we remember or not.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so that was such a gift as well, because I rekindled my love of lucid dreaming in my late 20s.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_00: It was just this like gateway that opened up for me.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_00: It was this really nice gift, in a way.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, now I feel very inspired to like work more with my dreams.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you for sharing everything.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_01: We'll link your book below, but can you just share what that is called and then also where people can find you?
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_00: So the book is called The Alchemy of Your Dreams.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's a modern guide to the ancient art of illusive dreaming and symbolic interpretation.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then I have a dream journal art, and that's called the Deliberate Dreamers Journal.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_00: They're available everywhere.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then my website is www.ethena las.com.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you so much for being here.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I know everyone's gonna love it.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for being here.
• 53:36
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• 53:43
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• 53:50
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• 54:02
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• 54:06
  SPEAKER_01: See you next time.