Latest / The Bob Lefsetz Podcast / Dave Mason

Transcript

Dave Mason · The Bob Lefsetz Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob left Side Podcast.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: My guest today is the truly legendary Dave Mason, and
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: that star, as I say, rock Dave's bucks. We really
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: have the rock and roll lifestyle here. Okay, So Dave,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: how long is this tour? Uh? This is well, it's
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: only been about let's see, it ends on the of
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: the month October. I've really done a lot this year.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: How much? Um? Some in January early in the year.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: I think it was January February early in the year,
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: and then um, and then the first actually, the first
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: part of it was the my which he was a
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: continuation from the previous year, which was my Rock and
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Soul review with me and Steve Cropper. How do you
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: know Steve Cropper? Oh? I met Kropp a long time
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: ago here in l A. Really so this is after
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: he paid his dues in Memphis, I guess. So. Um.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know I've been a fan since I
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: was eighteen nineteen years old. Well, it's funny. He's such
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: a big guy. You think of a studio guy, and
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: he looks like I could play basketball. Um, it's great.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: It was a great show. So who else was in
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: the band for how many players did with my with
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: my band okay, and just with Steve with Steve my band.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: And also we had um a girl from Maui, uh,
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Gretchen Rhodes who was part of it. Now some of
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: the time you live in Maui? Is that how you
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: met her? Yeah? Okay, let's go back a few years.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: Whose decision was it to have the Pizza album the
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: first alone together where it was multi colored? Um, well,
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: basically was supposed to come out like a sunburst. Oh really,
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: but there was no controlling the colors in the press, so, um,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: every one of them, we just came out different. And
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: whose decision was to do that? Though? Um, it was
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: just a collective decision with Camouflage was the company that
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: did the design work on the album, and um, I
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: guess it's just to put something out you know, different.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: And who's your manager? Back then? Alan Peiser was the
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: manager Group three management? Okay? And how did you end
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: up on Blue Thumb through the Group three? So in hindsight,
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: good decision, bad decision. Cross now is dead. It's not
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: a big deal. Good and bad. It's all good, you know,
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: but bad. I mean they were all you know, most
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: people in music business or musicians, as far as I'm concerned,
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: would either be either that or life or crime. It
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: would be one or the other. Okay, let's go back
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: to the real beginning. Where'd you grow up Worcester, England?
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: You know, we live in America. We're like focused solely
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: on Mary. We could. I know we're Worcester Masses. What's
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: where's Worcester in England? What's does the heartland of England
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: twelve miles from the Welsh border? Okay, Strafford on Avon? Okay?
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: And then what did your father or mother do for
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: a living there? Well, I say my dad was born
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: in so he was relatively old. She was fifty two. Wow.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: My mother was I think forty six or forty seven. Um,
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: they have My father had a candy store for forty
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: eight years and um an ice cream factory. Um. And
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: but mostly he was he was racist. He was a
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: what horse racing? Ah, now, I know that's big in
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: the U. Okay, was he did the candy store exists
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: during the Second World War? Good question? Um? I'm not sure.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: I suppose it must have done. Actually, yeah, I must have.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: My father was in the First World War because I
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: was in candy ration then it was hard to get
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: probably okay, So but he knew, you know, he knew
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: a guy. He knew a guy, right, and uh the
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: ice cream factory he owned, Yeah, just a small one
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: for making ice cream for the store. And you had
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: as much ice cream as you wri wanka couldn't have
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: been better. I have to te time. Okay. So, had
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: either your parents been married before? No? So, how many
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: kids were there in the family. Um? I had one
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: sister that has passed away. There was about seventeen years
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: between us and just the two of you, two of us,
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: and then my father had three kids. Um, from previous Oh,
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: my father was married before I had from a previous marriage.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: And were you close to those kids or they were
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: already in their own world? Not? No, not really so
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: we you mean, he pretty much kicked them all out
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: when they were sixteen seventeen. So we take care of yourself.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: So were you like the you know, the fear haired
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: child that they put all their investment in you? Or
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: we were ignored and let able to run free all
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: of it? Pretty much? I was spoiled. And when did
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: you first start playing music? Why? Out? I guess music
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: and stuff was pretty much from you know, at school,
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: school choirs, stuff like that, school plays, um, and then
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: you know, pretty much guitar was kind of it was
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: like the next thing from model airplanes from me. So
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: we were pre Beatles same time as Beatles um before before.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, it wasn't something. My dream was to go
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: in the Royal Air Force. Really, what where did that
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: come from? That's what I wanted to do, and so
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: I wanted to fly. Why how when did you you?
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you flew on other substances further down the road,
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: but when did you give up the dream? Well? Pretty much,
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: I just wasn't my you know, most of it was
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: just my math skills weren't up to par. So did
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: you try the exams for right? Did you try? Um?
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: Not really, because it was a question of going to
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: the right schools h and I just basically didn't really
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: try that hard. Okay, So what what age were you
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: when you got your guitar? Well, I guess I don't know. Well,
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: my sister moved to America anyway in the fifties, h
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: to San Diego, and my mother and I went and
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: visited her when I was around about I don't know.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: Probably gosh, I don't know what your was. Maybe I
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: was twelve thirteen, Yeah, and that's where a lot of
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: things for me would different because then Ray, what was
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: happening on the radio TV was you know, I mean
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: I grew up with We grew up with you know,
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: black and white TV and one station, the BBC, and
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: a lot of stuff that for me was on the
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: radio radio shows and so and or radio radio Luxembourg
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: or things like that. Um SO bought a lot of
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: stuff I got turned. Of course, that was the you're
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: at the beginning of all that, you know, bands and
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: guitar and and then while I was in San Diego,
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: I found this ukulele in a trash can and just
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: have a clue what to do with it. But I
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: sort of banged away on it. And then, um, I
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: guess when I got back, I I was still in school.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: I got my dad bought me a guitar when I
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: just take it to school. So it was basically that.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, I just you know, I saw these other things,
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: bands and stuff. I think, well, Ship, I could do that.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: I think, so you're you're a confident and gentleman. I
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: guess I didn't do any difference. Okay, So was it
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: tough coming back to uh, the UK after being in
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: San Diego? Not that I don't think. So. Okay, you
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: say you brought your guitar to school? Did you? Did
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: they have like a music program or you played? I
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: played in art class. I got to talk to the
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: art teacher, didn't mind if I bring this in there?
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: And are you self taught? And can you read music? No?
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: No way? Okay, So how far do you go in school? Um?
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: Well I went to what was called a secondary modern
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: pretty much of which there was A, B and C
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: in D streams and I pretty much was in the
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: A stream stream being the best. And how did that
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: end for you? Well, you go there into your m
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: about sixteen, and then you either go into college or
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: you go to work. And for part of the time
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: I figured I would try my hand at being a draftsman.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: Went to a technical college for about a year a half,
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: and by then I was getting more and more into
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: playing and figured, um, you know, I just knew that
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: I was never gonna work nine to five because your
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: personality or something never gonna work for me. I was
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: never gonna There's no way because you're not good with
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: ordering bosses or you're not good with it, you know,
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: this structure, all of it. Probably I'm just you know,
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: and we're your parents supportive. My mother was, yeah, but
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: that would imply your father wasn't. Well. I pretty you know.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: I I sort of exited myself. And it's about sixteen anyway,
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: out of the house. And did you support yourself after sixteen? Okay?
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: Playing playing music at that point? You know, sixteen seventeen
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: we had I think it was about that day's when
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: it formed. The Jaguars play you know, pubs, local gigs
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: and covers. I assume, oh yeah, all covers. So what
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: was the game? So what year we in? Like sixty
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: six years? Are like, um, I don't know what I'm
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: I don't know what you're I mean, I forget what
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: your traffic started sixty seven. The record came out in
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: the Maryland in sixty seven, so would have started basically
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: in sixty six. So yeah, I would have been sixty
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: five sixty four. So you're playing with your band, you're
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: playing covers, and you're happy or you see, there's gotta
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: be something bigger than this. Well, no, I was determined
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: it was going to be successful one way or another. Okay,
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: so was it a regular band with the same guys
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: UM at first UM, but then it sort of changed around.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: There was there was the Jaguars. Then we had a
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: band called the Deep Feeling UM, and then I got
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: and then Jim Capody and I got involved in a
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: band because he lived twelve miles away from me and
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: he had a band called he Was, so he Jim
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: was like an erstwhile Elvis fronting a band called the Sapphires,
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: and then we uh we formed a band called the Hellian's.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: UM actually did a record for Hi Jackie de Shannon's
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: song which went nowhere. I went out and backed UM.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: I think it was with a Helly and so I'm
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: trying to remember if it was with them, went out
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: and did a tour with backing p J PROBYO and UM.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: Then I kind of moved down to London and a
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: little bit slower. So when you're playing with these bands,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: do you feel these bands are gonna make it or
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: you're better than the bands and you have to carry
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: the whole thing. I don't really know. I was just
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: I mean, I I mean, I was hoping any one
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: of them could really, I suppose, And so who got
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: you the deal with Pie? You know, I we I
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: think we got well with that group, the Hellians. We
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: got signed. We had a management company down in London.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: Um M guy named Maurice King, who um the other two?
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: I forget what other acts? There was one act the
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: Walker Brothers. He had he had the Walker Brothers, one
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: of whom just recently passed, and and so that got
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: me more into the sort of professional seeing. And then um,
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: you know, we played a lot of gigs in Birmingham, um,
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: which is basically where Jim and I met Winwood? Oh
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: really okay, so Jim you met just because in the
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: BN scene he was fronting a band. And then we
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: you know, we it finally sort of got to where
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: you pulled. We tried to pull the best of all
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: the local bands and find the guys and put them together.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: And when did Jim start playing the drums stopping in
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: front man M Bay, I don't know, basically he I mean,
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: he was never a drummer. He just could just do it. Okay,
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: So how did you meet Winwood in Birmingham? Met him
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: at a place called the Elbow Room. And so you
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: were just hanging out or you went to you were
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: performing or he was performing. It was an after hour
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: sat my private club, unvite a couple of guys that
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: Jamaican guy in UM guy named Don Carlos. And at
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: this point, when would it already had his hits with
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: the Spencer David Well, dimpos was a hit when he
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: was fifteen. So and so how did it is? How
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: we did you decide you could form a band? We
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: just started kind of hanging out basically, just just hanging out,
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: smoking a lot of hash, listening to all kinds of
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: music and just just hanging out when we could. And
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: I guess he got to the point where he just, um,
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: I didn't want to be Spencer Davis group anymore. So
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: when you would do something different. And during that time,
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: through all that, I was um a roadie for them
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: for about three or four months. Okay, So when you
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: were you know, Windwood was a star and when you
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: got to meet him, was he just another musician or
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: you say this guy is a star or this is
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: a guy that can work with Well, I wasn't. I'm
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: a star. I mean he just was. You know, he
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: was just a an inordinate amount of of of natural talent.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: So Um and Jim and I we were fans, and
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: so you know, it's just sort of But then, like
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: I said, we just started hanging out basically. Um, and
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: so you were a roady for the end of the
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: Spencer Davis group or from the beginning of I was.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: I was. I mean, I you know, I sang I'm
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: singing the harmony on Somebody Help Me. Well really, um,
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: I mean, uh, me and Jim are both on give
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: Me Some Love and I'm a Man. Really I didn't
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: know that. Okay. So during when you met him, before
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: the heyday of the Spencer Davis group, Um, because you
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: were singing on all those songs I'm a man, give
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: Me some Love. Those were the hits in the US,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: I know. He yes, I mean they had, you know,
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: keep on running writing things for you, big hits in England, Europe. Okay,
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: So what well you were hanging with Winwood. Have you
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: stopped being in your own band touring around? Are you
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: still doing that simultaneously? Um? Well, I at that point
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: I didn't really have it well. Played with a guy
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: named Don Kove for a little while in London, and
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: then when it got more to the point where the
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: four of us were like we're gonna you know, Steve
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: is really going to leave and we're going to form
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: a band. So I didn't do anything for about three
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: or four four months or more. And that's why I
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: was playing road manager with Spencer Davis Group. Okay, were
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: your road manager or road like a road He was
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: kind of a road I mean, so he did a
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: little bit of everything. I was just there to hang
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: out with Steve. Okay. Did it feel like a step down,
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: as you know, doing the behind the scenes stuff instead
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: of being on the flat? I don't care. I mean
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: I knew we were going to form a band. So
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: and how did everybody react when Steve said he was
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: going to leave the Spencer Davis Group. Um, not too happy.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: Spencer flipped out. I mean, I I under I get it.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: I mean he was the Spencer Davis Group exactly. There
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: was nothing after that, you know. So, and that's basically
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: how you know, kind of Traffic started? How do how?
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: Why was it named traffic? We were trying to come
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: up with a name, you know, and pretty much every
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: band was the and we're trying to think of something different.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: We spent weeks with what about this? What about this?
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: What about this? And then Jim and I were at
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: a a um a movie, an afternoon movie in Worcester,
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: and in the cinema when you came out, the front
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: doors had steps that went right down onto the high street,
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: and we walked out and he just went, I got
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: it traffic. And did you think it was a good idea? Immediately? Yeah?
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: Immediately it was like yeah, perfect, Okay, Just so I
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: know how far is Wooster from Birmingham. Um, it's about
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: thirty miles okay, relatively close. Yeah. And then how did
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: Chris Wood get involved? Chris was a friend of Steve's
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: and he was always going to be involved. Um, I guess,
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: I mean they were friends. He was an art school guy. Okay,
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: so now you formed traffic. Chris. Chris Blackwell comes into
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: the situation. Well, he he managed Spencer Day, he had
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: Spencer Davis group. Anyway, it's at Steve. I mean, did
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: you feel like, well, now I've really hit the big
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: time or well I knew that that at that point,
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: having being involved with Steve, being involved in it, it
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: was certainly going to get attention. And then it was
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: Blackwell helpful, unhelpful, good dad? Mhm um in what sense? Hey?
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: Is he atively or just okay, he was a businessman.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: Doesn't he get credit for producing that first record? No,
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: he didn't produce the first year. No, but I think
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: he takes credit though probably Okay, took everything else pretty much.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: So okay, there you have it. Now when you want
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: to go, are you signed individually? I mean Jimmy Miller
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: produced the first album. He brought Jimmy Miller. Chris brought
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: Jimmy Miller over to produce Traffic, and Jimmy Miller one
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: of the unsung heroes of rock and roll. So what
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: was he like because he died way before his time.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: Jimmy was just great, just very cool personality, great producer.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: But with Traffic, it was, you know, we were Steve
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: wanted to get away from the from the young Ray
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: Charles dubbed that he got and do something different. So
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: and at first we were gonna we talked about a
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: lot of covers and doing you know, Bobby Bland stuff
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: or but when it started, that was my when I
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: sort of went, you know what, I'm gonna need to
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: start writing. Oh, you didn't write before then? No? Uh.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: The first song I ever wrote was their biggest hit,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: fantasy song called Hole in My shoe right, which was
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: the beginning of the end. Why was it the beginning
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: of the end. It was the beginning of the end because,
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: um because mostly because I guess, I don't know, probably
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: a bunch of reasons. I'll never know really why. Um.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: But most of everything, most of the things that I wrote,
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: we're all, we're because I was there for the first
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: two albums. Um. But let's start with the first album.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: First album, you're in the band and then you're out
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: of the band. Well, I wrote sort of nearly half
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: the songs, and we and we were kind of like
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: when the first little group of people that just sort
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: of we sequested ourselves away in that house in Berkshire
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: which had no no electricity, no running water until we
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: started putting it in there, um, just to see what
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: we could come up with. And I was trying to
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: you know, I didn't know what I could do or
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: couldn't do, so I wrote on my own, um, and
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: they were pretty much naive songs because I had no
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, street Smart was not part of my ringing, okay,
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: but literally between the album coming out in the UK
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: and the U s you you're no longer in the band. Um, Yeah,
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: pretty much, um. And the thing I was that happened
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: was that that hold of my shoe became a number
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: two record in in England and was a hit in Europe.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: And for me, it all happened so fast and suddenly
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: you're that thing that you've been wanting. Is there press this?
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: That it all got too much for me and I
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: couldn't deal with it. It was basically what happened. I'm
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: just a kid from Worcester, you know, I grew up.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: My upbringing was not unlike Tom Sawyer, were running around
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: the fares, building rafts, bose narrows and okay, so you
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: wrote it all too much for me. So I left
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: and you left, and you intended to do what I
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: didn't know, but you felt you were done with this
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: music game. No no, no, no, no no, no, no, no,
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: not at all. I mean I never got into this
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: be star. I got into this to make music and
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: and make money, which came first? Make music or make money? Um?
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: When the music always comes first? Okay, So when you
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: leave traffic, the spotlight is upon it. Did you see
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: it in the money from hole in my shoe? Um?
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: Who knows? I have no clue? Must have seen something.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: I mean blackbo took all the publishing on everything because
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: I didn't know any different. Okay, so when you leave
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: the band, what are the other three members saying? Uh
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: m hmm, I don't know. They pretty much sort of
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: went on as their own, the three of them. And
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: how did you come back to the ban for the
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: second they were they were in well whilst I was
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: whilst in that time that I had left. See part
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: of it was I was so Traffic was an interesting
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: group of well because we all have a very diversified
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: musical tastes. I mean, we loved all kinds of music,
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: so which I thought was its strength. And um, it
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: didn't really matter who wrote the hit song to me
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: because at least that got attention to the band. And
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: there was so much other material there. Um. And so
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: after I had to take a break from the fame.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: From the fame, I guess of it. But that's when
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: I m got to know Hendricks. Um, I like to
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: know McCartney. I produced an album called Music the Dolls
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: House for the whop called the Family, UM put out
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: the first compatible stereo single. UM. And so I and
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: I'd come back and I come back to America a
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: few times and for what reason, Because mostly for the
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: reason I finally came here, because this is where it
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: all starts. This is where it all starts, This is
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: where it all comes from. Okay, we just copied you up.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: We just copied everything and sold it back to you.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: We were asleep at the wheel and we The other
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: big thing is too, as I see we all in
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: England Europe is we didn't have all that segregation going on.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: We didn't, you know, so we had all those great
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: that's why that blue stuff started happened so much over there.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: There wasn't any radio segregation of music over there, so
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: we heard it all. So you're saying you heard it
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: all in the UK. So were you caught off guard
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: when you experienced the segregation in America? I mean, I
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: don't know if I really if I really paid that
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: much attention at the time and be honest with you, um,
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: but anyway, I sort of came back and forth a
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: few times and then and also at the time, I
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: during that period of time too, I went to Greece
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: for a couple of months, to the island of Hedra
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: to work on songwriting because I thought my stuff was
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: sort of uh the you know, hold of my Shoe
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: was just a little fantasy thing that was ahead. Um,
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: but I wanted to write more mm hmm, just about
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: just life things, real things. Tom My. Whole thing was
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: wrong writing is to write something that's timeless. I don't
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: want it to be trapped in a fashion or time
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: or place. Since you had a number of hits, did
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: you right trying to have a hit or you said
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: they just yeah, well I have a a you know,
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: I have a somewhat of a pop sensibility. Okay, so
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: how do you come back into traffic for the second
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: I was in New York and they were at the
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: I think they were at the record plan to New
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: York working on the second album, and all they had
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: were five songs. M and I was at the studio visiting,
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: and I said, well I got five songs. Oh all right,
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: well we want to come sure, let's recording. Well, you
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: had except for forty thousand head Men, which is a
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: great track. You have the three best tracks on the
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: album feeling all right, Well, it feel it all right,
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: but that's a famous one. But it started the album
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: started where you could all join in. And my favorite
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: songs on the second side, crying to be heard. So
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: were those songs you've written in Hedra pretty much? Okay?
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: But you talk about A Hole in the Hole of
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: My Shoe being your first track most people, right, you know,
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: I read a hundred songs. The first ninety were bad.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: Were you someone where every track, every song you worked
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: on and then it became quality? Uh? Well, I you know, basically,
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: I don't. I'm not I'm not very I'm not very prolific.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: If I write something, it's I mean stuff. I well
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: if I if it doesn't feel right, I just throw
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: it out. So I am usually just concentrate. I concentrate
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: on what my version of quality is rather than quantity.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: I guess my question would be those three tracks on
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: the second album with those songs that you wrote right
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: after A Hole of My Shoe or you written a
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: lot of other ones. No, no, they weren't. That's when
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: I mean it took me. It was just took me
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: two years to write those eight songs on alone together. Okay,
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: but let's go back to the second traffic and what's
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: the story. I'm crying to be heard? I don't even
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: remember just whatever it's saying. Okay, how I mets a
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: song I've never done. I've never sang that. I've never
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: performed that song. Why. I mean, I thought it was cool,
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: but hey, don't have that voice anymore for one thing,
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: and um, you know I'll do all join in, um,
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: But for me, crying to be heard was just a
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: it was an album track. It's important to me. But
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: at any event, what's the story? And you can all
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: join in? Remember how that came together? Um? I think
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: I wrote most of the lyrics for that sitting in
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: a cafe, outdoor cafe in Athens. And you know what
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: inspired it? Just basically what exactly what it's saying pretty much?
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: And what's the story of behind feeling all right? Feeling
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: all rights? Um? Feeling all right is about not feeling
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: too good myself. That's what feeling all right is? What
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: was the inspiration for that girl? Of course a woman?
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: And did it really all are okay? You have this?
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: Did the song a lot of times? When you're in
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: that mood, that the press mood, the creativity comes and
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: it comes out all in one batch. Did the song
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: kind of right itself? Or did you work on it
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: for a long time? I mean part of it too
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: was I was trying to musically I was trying to
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: write the simplest thing I possibly could come up with
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: because I had been playing sitar for some time, which
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: I used on the first album, and George Harrison gave
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: me the sitar that he learned on UM to start with.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: So I've been playing sitar and I've been listened to
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: our Indian music, So having been listening to that basically
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: around a drone UM, it was part of the for
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: me was trying to write the simplest possible thing I
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: could come up with, and other than one chord, two chords. Okay.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: Now that's all you know is literally legendary played a
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: lot today. Does Black well in the publishing on that
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: or do you no? I don't know in the publishing
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: on it, but you still get the writer's share I do, okay.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: And then do you know how Joe Cocker ended up
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: covering it? Um? Not until Denny Cordell, I mean, the
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: producer got him to cover it. I mean that's the
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: definitive version. Okay, So you like it? Oh? Yeah, you're kidding.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: I wish I'd have done it like that. I mean
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: I do on pretty much on stage, but it's you know,
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: it's an adaptable song. You can do it in so
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: many ways. You could do as a reggae song if
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: you want. So how did it end with Traffic? How
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: did Traffic decided to break up? So after the second
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: album came out, and of course my songs were the
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: single picks, And then I got a call to come
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: to a meeting at Chris Blackwell's house, and um so
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: I go over there and Chris and Steve and Jim
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: are they're sitting on the couch and I sit down
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: and the psycho okay, what's going on? And Steve looked
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: at me and says, I don't like the way you're saying.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: I don't way. You're right, I don't like the way
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: you play. And you're out of the band. And that's
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: how it ended. And what did you say? I didn't
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: say anything too much, got up and left. And do
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: you see Winwood ever since then? Or he didn't see me?
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: But you maintained a relationship with Capaldi, right, coalities passed
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: away before that sort of sort of, But the band
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: itself ended up imploading, sure that they didn't have your
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: hit songs? Well possibly, okay, So track, you're done with Traffic?
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: Where does that leave you? Around the street pretty much
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: wondering what the hell I'm gonna do. And we tried
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: a couple of things. I mean, it was one point
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: where Steve had left the band and she left the band,
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: but the other three of you were carrying on. We
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: could try to carry on with a guy named winder
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: k Frog, but it was you know, you're not going
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: to replace Winwood. So you know, after all that, I
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: just finally went, you know what, I'm out of here.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: That in the cents in the dollar taxes in England,
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: it was like, you know, fuck this ship, I'm out
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: of here. I'm going west. And that's when I up
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: and left and came here to Los Angeles, came to
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: Los Angeles. Now, especially with today's situation, we're all very
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: familiar with immigration law. You can't stay here forever unless
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: you get a green card or you get a special visa.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: How'd you end up being able to stay? I have
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: I am a I am an alien resident. Okay, But
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: back then, back in sixty eight or so, you applied
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: and you got that. Yeah, okay, you citizen now are
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: still in it, still an alien resident. Do you vote
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: in the UK? No? Do you care about Brexit? I don't.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: I hope that passes because I think it should just
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: very simply why, Because I just don't think that wrapping
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: yourselves around the rest of Europe is going to benefit
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: England in any way. And do you go back at
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: this pointing back maybe twice three times really in fifty years? Okay,
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: so you don't sell any records there, never have. So
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: you're in America and I have no other reason to
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: go back there. You're in America, and then what do
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: you decide to do? Well? I came stayed with Graham
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: Parsons for for a little while. How do you know Graham?
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: I knew him through um met him through the rolling stones.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: We've we've gotten, We've gone through Hendricks, We've gone through Harrison.
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: How did all this happen? Are you just the kind
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: of guy where everybody gets along with us? You could
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: meet every you could run into everybody, and there's only
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: one place. It's not like America where you had you
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: know how many music centers l A, New York, New Orleans, Philadelphia,
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: New York, Detroit, San Francisco. It was just London. And
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: that's so you've runned everybody there. We've done limited number
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: of studios, and Jimmy Miller was producing the Stones and
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: Hendricks and the Stones and Traffic and the rest of
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: us were all using the same studios, and wasn't unusual
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: for people to just drop by each other's sessions. And
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: when you start, so I am played on Street Fighting Man?
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: What are you playing on Street Fighting Man? Uh? Some
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: of the drums and that weird horn at the end
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: of it. How do you end up playing the weird horn?
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: Brian was a little too, he wasn't there actually, and
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: then Hendricks and IWI um during that period of time
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: where I left, there was a little rift going on
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: with him and no Redding, and jim and I actually
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: talked seriously about me taking Noh's place, but that would
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: be playing bass, and we did some recordings me playing
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: sitar and bass, so I have no clue where they are.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: And then I got to sing on Crosstand Traffic and
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: then played the acoustic guitar and all along the watch Tower. Ah. So,
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: but then you come to the US, and then I
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: finally come to the US, and I've known a band
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: over here, which I tried to tell Chris Blackway, you
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: should really really signed this band if you want a
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: really great man, which was Delaneum Bunny. So I knew
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: all those people and I played and play guitar with
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: them for a while. Now were you you were also
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: in the band same time Clapton was in the band. Well, mhm,
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: Delaneum Bonny opened the Blind Faith to her. Actually where
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: I saw the Blind Faith tour in Chicago, taste was
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: the opener. But we opened a lot of the dates.
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: We were run a lot of the dates, and that's
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: where Eric got to really grab all, you know, get
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: to know all that. And were you cool with Eric? Yeah?
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: I mean I was in the I mean I was
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: in the beginning of I was in the band of
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: Derek and the Dominoes at the very beginning. And how
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: did it? How did that end? Um? It mostly ended
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: because that's when Eric got into Heroin. There's a lot
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: of not a lot of not a lot was getting done,
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: and I was getting frustrated and just so, okay, this
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: is I can't deal with this. Who else was in
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: the band at that point, well, Jim Gordon and most
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: of the Delinean Bonny band, Bobby Gordon, Um, Karl Radl
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: And so how do you end up writing you only
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: you know and I know which is on the Delinean
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: Bonny album on tour. Well, I had written those that's
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: part of a loan together and those those eight songs
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: were written over a period of two years, and I
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: wrote only you Know and I Know up at Cass
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: Elliott's house. You ultimately did an album with Cass. How
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: did you meet Cass through Graham Parsons. Graham was the
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: type of person who knew everybody himself, right, and but
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: he at the time was on herrowin too, right, Um,
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: I guess, I mean I was wasn't aware at the time,
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: and Cass was done with the mamas and the papas,
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: and what was your relationship with her? Well, the thing
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: was there was a couple living there at the house
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: up in Mulholland that I were really close friends of
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: mine from London, and I had no idea that they
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: were there, and so it was like, oh my god, people,
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: I actually know. This is great. So that was the
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: reason that I started going there a lot, spending a
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: lot of time there and right, and so how you
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: wrote only you Know and I knew there. I started
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: writing it there and that and um, I think and
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: I was pretty much at the time, I was kind
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: of living at the Chateau Marma. She's where I wrote
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: I can't start worrying and finished only you know and
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: I know. Um, I think at one point Jim come
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: over or something somewhere. We got together and and he
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: had I had some music and a rhythm of something
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: that I was doing, and he had these lyrics, and
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: I read the lyrics and they went, oh, m okay,
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: they'll fit with it, and that became look at you,
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: look at me, okay. And then at the point, if
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: you're living in the Chateau Bauman, you must have had
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: some money from somewhere. Um, whether you know, there was royalties,
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: and there was stuff that I and I played show
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: you know, dates with them with Lillanium Bonny um. And
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: then I was also pretty much working on that record
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: deal with Blue Thumb. So how did that come together? Well,
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: when did you decide you wanted to do a solo album? Well,
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: I figured I was. I mean, that was the whole
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: object of it. I mean, there was I came here,
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: not nobody really, I mean that sort of when I
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: came here is pretty much when the traffic albums started
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: to come out over here. So nobody had a clue
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: who I was. Yeah, um, except I had those eight songs.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: So how did it come together with Blue Thumb? Well,
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: like I said, that was through Group three because they
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: managed Llanium Bonny and that's how I got to that,
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: and that led to Blue Thumb. And did you think
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: that going to Blue Thumb was good? Or would you
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: have rather rather been at Warrener Brothers Columbia. Um at
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: the time, Um, I still like the idea of independent
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: labels because without a lot of artists on them, right,
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: But I figured I'd get a little more attention and
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: being on someplace where there's a huge run. To what
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: degree did they give you attention in the studio? Well? They,
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: I mean Tommy La Puma was basically who was a producer, producer,
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: just a real great guy. Um. And Tommy knew all
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: those musicians that I finally finished at working with them there.
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: So did you have any idea that every did you
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: think everything was turning out? Well? All I knew was
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: was making a record. Okay, Well, the record came out
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: from the consumer side. It certainly have the multicolored plastic,
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: It had this three piano uh cover you could hang
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: up as a poster, and it was one of the
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: few albums of all time you could literally play from
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: beginning then there's not one cluck around the whole. The
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: great thing about it was when when when there really
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: was radio, which sadly is when the biggest reasons don't
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: put anything new at it anymore is nobody on. But
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: then you had DJs and people who were turning onto
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: the music. And the thing about one thing about that
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: album is it was very hard to see where the
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: groves where the church started in. Just put it on
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: and play the whole Sam a side so um yeah.
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: But then you got into a fight with Blue Thumb
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: right you didn't want came a hit. And because of
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: my experience with Blackwell and promises, certain things that he
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: made that he were nagged on. Is I just I said, okay, great,
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: and I want to you need to if you want
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: to do another one, you need to renegotiate the album
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: need my dear, And they wouldn't do it. And so
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: I was working on that second album. So it was Headkeeper,
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: the second album, Hey Keep. It was the second album
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: which is supposed to be a double album and R
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: and they just um, I kept reneging on it. And
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: I just said, I took the tapes and hit all
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: the tapes and put them somewhere all the masters. Okay,
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: So they went ahead and just put out an album
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: off the rough two tracks stuff that was left there.
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: And that's when I went in the press and I said,
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: don't buy the damn album. So this was before you
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: made your deal with Columbia. Yeah, okay, So where did
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: that leave you emotionally? When they put out all the
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: rough mixes? I was passed? And did you ever make
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: peace with them? With kras Now? No? Did you ever
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: get paid on that? Right? Those records? Who knows? He's
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: probably shuffled so many out of the back door. Who
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: knows what he did? I think they all everybody got screwed, right,
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: I'm got screwed. Tommy got screwed. And so how did
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: you end up making a deal with Columbia? That's a
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: good question. UM, trying to think of a series of
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: events after after Um, I think it was after that
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: there was a fellow named Don Graham Don Sherman to
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: manage me for a little while. UM, I'm trying to
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: remember if it was him that that's how we got
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: to the Columbia deal. Okay, was were they? I mean
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: there was after the success of Alone Together, there was
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: gonna be somebody that was gonna stap of course, so
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: they were looking for you. Would you say, I would
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: imagine that, you know, I could have probably gone to
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: them or warners, or I probably could have gone to
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: all of them. So how was your experience being on Columbia?
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: Columbia is a very very experience, okayy um. I mean,
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: you know, I've always had freedom to do whatever I
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: want in the studio because I really don't. I tried
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: once to do something it was like that was stupid,
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: so um, and then there was a whole live side
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: of things trying to you know, become a I mean
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: for me, I had to hit I added Alone Together
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: hit record, but I really wasn't. I really wasn't prepared
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: to be a solo artist. So I mean we did
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: Colombia and we had um um, I forget what I
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: forget what to order? The first album was was It's
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: Like You Never Left? Was Was that the first one?
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's gone for a while or something
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: or us to Dave Mason album. I think I think
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: Dave Mason was first, but I would have to look
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: it up myself. Yeah, and then you know, like the
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: problem with those the problem with the labels, which looking back,
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: I wish they were still well, I wish a number
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: of things were still around for artists, but they aren't.
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: Um um, I mean things you know, you were, you had.
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: I mean, the thing was back then, when I was,
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: back in the days when we first started, somebody made
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: a decision and the whole and that moved the whole company.
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: And then as things progressed and we got into the
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: bullshit of consensus, you know, well everybody's got opinion. Yeah, okay,
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: that's gonna knows too, but unlet's just somebody there. So
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: when you had somebody behind you that has some power
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: at the company, you know, you can pretty much get
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: something done. And then eventually it just you know, all
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: sort of and then every because then somebody would be
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: there from a little while and then they were gone.
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, there was a great article back in the seventies,
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: early seventies on the front of the Wall Street Journal.
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: You always put that little little column there now to
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: the bottom. Used to be on the side, and they
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: used to be right there in the center of the page.
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, with all the news, and it was
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: always something a little different. And they did a thing
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: on the record business and they said, of all the
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: records put out by every label that exists in the US,
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: two make money. So you know, there's a lot of
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: cases where I mean, you got bands that did stuff
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: and made great albums, and the people that were there
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: to help and do it so only weren't there anymore.
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: So a lot of stuff was sholled. Um. Yeah, I
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: was scarious. The labels were the labels were an expensive
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: way to borrow money and try getting it back. Okay,
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: so how does we just disagree happening? How does that
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: become ahead? Um? Well, how does it become a hit? Um? Then?
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: And I did the I think at that point I
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: had I'm trying to think it's the I I get
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: because I don't specifically remember the times but the specific
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: order of things. But I think there was a period
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: where and now part of all some things I had,
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: some number of things happened. I and I went through
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: bankruptcy while you were signed to Columbia. I went through
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: a bankruptcy, and um, it was a legitimate bankruptcy. The
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: thing about a bankruptcy is is that the minute you
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: declared bankrupt, you're free and clear to do whatever you
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: want to go and do, unless as fraud involved, and
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: then you're screwed. But the part part about it is
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: within the recording agreements of the time, there was no
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: provision for that. And I really wanted to go with Ahmed,
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: and I was broke at the time. An Armored loaned
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: me fifty dollars personally and took me on the corporate
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: jet for ten days to Europe to a number of
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: rolling Stones consins, and then we got back and he said,
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: there's no precedent for this. We don't know what to do.
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: I said, but if you can sign me it's legal,
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: it's fine, it said corporate attorneys. They don't know what
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: to do, he said. I just at the time, Clive
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: was at Columbia, and Clive had made an offer to
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: go back to Columbia, and Army said, just just go
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: take the offer. So so I went back to Columbia.
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: And that's when I had did um the letter Flow album,
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: which was again put out. It was put out colored album,
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: Blue and uh and had we just disagree on it.
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: And at the time I had a great band, Mike Finnegan,
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: Jim Kreeger, Gerald Johnson, and it was a song Jim
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: Kreeger had written and he brought it to me one
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: day said I got this and he said this, think
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: it's perfect for you. You know. It was like it
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: was just a great song. And so that's why I credit.
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: And then the guys, the the guys out on the
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: street were important, really important, the labels, the work, the
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: radio promotion, promotion guys, Mike Gustler one of them, UM,
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: a couple of other guys. They really helped make that
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: a hit. And Steve Popovitch was another great guy. UM
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: and Clive actually, I mean I always thought Clive is
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: a great record guy. It's a great ear for stuff
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: you're not you know. That whole to me, all that
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: whole asking him for over some bar mits for party
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: whatever it was, it was a lot of bullshit. I
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: think he's just getting I think that you had a
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: problem when you got too powerful, except of those places,
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: especially powerful or you do it couldn't make anything happen.
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: He was screwed. So and then I tried a couple
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: more things and with them and um Mariposta album, which
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: to me was a really good album. Um, I didn't
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: sell I mean, it went gold, but and then it
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: just sort of fell apart after that, and then Joe
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: Wizard did the last album I did, and Columbia did
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: nothing to push it was one of the reasons why
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: Joe Wizard left Columbia. Yeah. Yeah, and that's the story basically. Okay,
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: So now you're done with columb down with Colombia, do
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: you what do you think where you think you're at
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: at that point? We hit the eighties doing what I've
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: always done, playing playing live. So at this point in time,
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: how much do you work? How many days a year?
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: I mean I've never stopped basically and then never stopped
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: really working. I mean the last couple of years is
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: that this year is probably the least I've worked. I
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: mean last year I took four months off first. I
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: haven't gotten out on So where can you play? Pretty
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: much anywhere in the world US, just the US, US,
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: some Canada, Okay, And you see a new audiencewer is
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: the same die hard Dave Mason. It's the saying, well,
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: it's just people who grow up with me. Basically, you know,
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: my my audience is basically fourdies to seventies. And do
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: you still occasionally I get you know, there's a young
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: kids come and usually they're like, Wow, it's all new
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: to them, but nobody's playing it to them. There's no nobody.
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, radio is just I mean, everybody talks about
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: the Internet and the power of the Internet. Terrestrial radio
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: is probably more powerful than the Internet. It's still a
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: very powerful media. So there's nobody there, so you don't
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: put It's why we don't put music out anymore. And
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: we're getting screwed worse by the Internet companies than we
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: were by the labels. Five thousand plays on on Pandora.
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: It's about saying your checks the same as the price
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: of a T shirt. I mean, half of our revenue
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: stream is gone, so or you're left with it's playing live.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's why I still play. I played for
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: a couple of reasons, probably the same reason I gave
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: at the very beginning of the interview. I love I
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: love playing, and I'm really good at disappointed at being
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: Dave Mason. And it's the only revenue stream that I am.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: So you're gonna die on stage or at some point
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: you're gonna miss the last show. And on that note, Dave,
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: thanks so much for doing the podcast I don't like
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: we can top. Thank you until next time. This is
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: Bob left Sex