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How to Manage Up at Work (Without Feeling Manipulative) · Unspoken Career Truths

• 0:00
  Welcome to unspoken career truths.
• 0:02
  I'm Cara Wood. And I'm Lauren Levac Gilbert.
• 0:05
  And we're here to be the Co workers you can trust.
• 0:09
  So Cara, I have a question for you.
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  All right. Have you ever felt like you
• 0:14
  don't sit in a leadership position, but you need to help
• 0:16
  guide the leaders in your organization and teach them?
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  I mean, I think that often times when you're in non leadership
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  roles, you see the things that leadership doesn't see and you
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  need to communicate any issues or problems or just information
• 0:31
  that they might be blind to 1. 100% car and that's what we're
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  going to talk about today. It is a really, really important
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  skill set that can help you at really any stage of your career.
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  And I actually find that it's a very kind of unspoken thing, and
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  I had to learn it a little bit later in my career after I was
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  like, why isn't any of this working?
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  And someone was like, Oh, well, you need to manage up to your
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  leadership or to your boss or to your team.
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  Initially for me, it was managing how my manager and I
• 0:59
  worked together and then later I learned that it was a term and
• 1:02
  there is more to it. At first glance.
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  For me, it's oftentimes, and I'll say this to managers, I
• 1:09
  want to make you look good. And that's kind of my shorthand
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  for communicating things that either they might not see and
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  then also communicating progress to them in a way that's going to
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  be the most helpful for them. And I want to really like get to
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  know how my manager thinks so that I can provide information
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  in a way that they can use it right away.
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  I love that making your manager look good.
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  That's a really good twist on the, the whole kind of thought
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  around managing up. Because I think sometimes when
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  you say that people can get kind of uncomfortable because they
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  think it's like manipulative or trying to kind of get around
• 1:45
  things. But it's not it's and it doesn't
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  need to be uncomfortable and it's probably stuff that you're
• 1:49
  already doing today. But we want to kind of dive into
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  what are the kind of key principles of it and how to
• 1:54
  think about it if you're not already doing it.
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  It's critical, so I'm excited. Yeah, 86% of employees and
• 2:01
  executives say lack of communication or collaboration
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  is the main cause of workplace failures.
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  So Cara, you talked about communicating with your manager
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  and making sure they knew how to manage you and how you manage
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  them. A big piece of that is
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  communication. And we all know in personal and
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  professional communication, breakdown is the most
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  challenging. Well, and I also think that
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  collaboration piece is interesting because when you're
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  managing up, a lot of times it is about like a project by
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  project basis. Are you even aligned with what
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  your top priorities are and with what the status of the project
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  is? What do they care about?
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  Do they care about the budget? Do they care about the timeline?
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  Probably both. They probably care about all of
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  it, but you know, but knowing what their priorities are and
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  like who else they have to report back to so that you can
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  like funnel information. And the result of poor
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  collaboration and poor communication was actually
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  quantified in the study. It can actually cost companies
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  9000 to 30,000 per employee per year.
• 3:00
  Wow. I think that's, that was kind of
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  crazy to me and I, but I feel like it makes sense, right?
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  Like when I was in at A at a brand and we were talking about
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  budget, like if I didn't communicate with a team who also
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  had a different budget, who was doing something similar, we
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  would duplicate costs. And it was really easy to do
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  that because it was a big organization.
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  You didn't necessarily know what was happening.
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  So that communication piece, it makes sense.
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  But when you quantify it like that, it's a lot of money.
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  Yeah, it makes sense to me too, because I to me, I think one of
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  the biggest gaps I see is when you're wasting time on a project
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  that either your manager doesn't care about wasn't priority, or
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  something pivoted and you didn't even know about it and it was
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  communicated to you later. And you're like, OK, well, that
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  was half a day that you didn't need me to spend, which costs
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  companies money. Yes, and time is money, as they
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  say. I remember I was in charge of
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  this project and it was a kind of big new project that brought
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  a bunch of cross functional people together and I was the
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  lowest level person and they were all kind of a leadership
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  level. One of them was my direct upline
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  manager and the rest of them were like cross functional
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  partners. And so I remember I had like
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  prepped a pre read. I had like an agenda that I
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  shared out for the meeting and I thought that I had like fully
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  prepared and I sent it out beforehand.
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  I was like, does anybody have any questions?
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  I heard crickets. I get into the meeting and I'm
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  like, hey, you, you saw this pre read.
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  Here's the agenda we're going to go through today.
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  Here's what I want to talk about.
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  And I like kind of kick off the meeting and say and say like,
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  does anybody have any objections?
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  No objections. I like start going into it and I
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  get to a section where I'm kind of presenting like the timeline
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  and plan and I'm like, OK, this was like pre aligned as stated
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  in previous emails. And Oh my gosh, everything blew
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  up. Like someone jumped in and was
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  like, well, I don't like this, this and this like this isn't
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  what I think is right. And I kind of sat there in the
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  room and I kind of let everybody talk and I was like, what just.
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  Happened. You were hijacked.
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  I was hijacked. In the momentum.
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  Yes. And so I had a meeting with my
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  manager afterwards and God bless her.
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  She explained to me she was like, OK, what do you think
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  happened? And I was like, I have
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  absolutely no idea. And she was like, let me tell
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  you what happened. And she like said this person
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  likes to be like pre aligned before every meeting so that
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  they can give their input before doing it in public.
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  So you need to meet with them. Then this person, you need to
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  set up time to go over the pre read because they're never going
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  to read it. And I was like, Oh my goodness.
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  And it's where the word align became like a huge part of my
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  vocabulary because I didn't realize that I had to kind of
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  like pre align with a lot of people so that the meeting would
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  go smoothly. So that was my example of having
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  to manage up and it was a big learning experience.
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  And so I now really kind of understand every player make
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  sure I won't, I know like who is going to kind of cause a problem
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  in the room or who needs a certain pre alignment or
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  situation, especially because they were all higher up than me.
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  Yeah, that is so resonates. And I actually used to work with
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  someone who was excellent at meeting with everyone regardless
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  of if they were higher or lower on the team to just give them
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  the heads up. It's happened to me where
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  people's it's it sounds so silly, but people's feelings are
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  hurt when they don't feel like included.
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  And then depending on the personality or depending on then
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  whatever else is top of mind for them, they don't necessarily
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  like have the context when they're hearing it for the first
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  time because for some reason pre reads don't always.
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  But that's so much work. I, I know it has to get done,
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  but that was the biggest reaction I had.
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  I was like, listen, I spent all this time preparing for this
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  meeting. Now I need to meet with like 10
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  people before the meeting to have a good meeting.
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  But unfortunately that's kind of how this works, especially when
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  you're working cross functionally and all of that
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  time and effort pays off. And I will say again, this other
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  employee that I worked with, what she would say was can I get
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  5 to 10 minutes and your feedback on this?
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  And it it took me a while to realize what she was doing.
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  Each time she's asking for my feedback because she'd get you
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  to the point of view that she wanted you to have and.
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  Exactly. At the end of it, everyone would
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  have that 5 to 10 minute moment. And then by the time you were
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  all sitting in a meeting, everyone's like, yeah, I gave
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  feedback on this and this is what I agreed to.
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  You know, it was very that that final meeting goes really
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  smoothly when you do that, right?
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  But you also feel like you provided feedback to your point
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  and you were involved and so you own it and it feels like you're
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  a part of it and that's all. It all goes back to human nature
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  there. And I think it's just really
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  important to remember as you're thinking about projects,
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  especially cross functional or managing with people above you.
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  But I don't know Cara. Do you have an example of your
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  own? The first one that came to mind
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  for me was when I was editor in chief of a magazine because
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  every, I think it was monthly. It may have been weekly, but I
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  think it was monthly. I would have meetings with our
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  publishing board, our CEO, our head of advertising, and they
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  were very formulaic. We'd go through our budgetary
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  numbers, ad spend would talk about that.
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  I would give them previews on some of our key, you know,
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  articles and headlines, what we were anticipating, what we were
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  seeing in the market. And when I first went into them,
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  I didn't know what a managing opportunity it was.
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  It just felt like a presentation I had to do.
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  And we always had a note taker who would give everyone action
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  items, which was fantastic to have someone in the room who's
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  already designated to be doing that.
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  But looking back, what I wish younger Cara knew was had I gone
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  to each department head and kind of known a little bit more about
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  the numbers? Because sometimes I would be
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  surprised in the room about what people were telling me.
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  And I definitely never thought to like manage my publishers
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  expectations. We'd have those conversations
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  there. But I actually think it made the
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  meeting itself a lot more painful for my higher ups
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  because I just didn't know, hey, this is actually what this
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  meeting is. Is this again, all the prep work
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  that could go into it, Not a one day presentation that I'm just
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  prepping my part of it for. It's like this is this moment to
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  collaborate with everyone ahead of the meeting, in the meeting
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  and then after the meeting. Yeah, I love that.
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  I think they're being surprised by information is a big reason
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  why you need to pre align because you if you're especially
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  if you're running the meeting, you don't want to be the one
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  that's like, I didn't know that or I didn't hear about that,
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  right. So and this happens at big and
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  small companies, like you can be a small team and still not know
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  what's going on. So that kind of like pre
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  alignment is a big piece of managing up.
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  Yeah, and so kind of some of the key principles that we hit on in
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  these stories that we just shared really about
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  communication, setting your manager up for success, like
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  Cara said, and making your manager more effective.
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  What matters to your manager? What are their KPIs?
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  Are they up for a promotion? Are they trying to kind of move
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  departments? Like it's really important to
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  understand what motivates them. Then you'll know, like what they
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  want to spend time on and what's valuable to them.
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  Make sure you understand them because I'm sure they're always
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  going to ask. How does this connect to my
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  KPI's? Yeah.
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  I like to try to also know when they're meeting with either
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  their manager or when they have oftentimes your boss.
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  If you, if you're not the one in the meeting with the CFO and the
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  CEO, someone above you is and those people are prepping their
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  data and where are they getting it from?
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  You kind of want them to get it from you or the portion that you
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  own they should get from you. So knowing the schedule of that
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  and like what they're presenting on can really help you cuz you
• 10:51
  can check in a little bit ahead of time and be like, do you have
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  what you need? You know, to champion my project
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  essentially. I think that's a great point.
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  So even if you're not like in a board meeting or a leadership
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  meeting, I always put them on my calendar so I know #1 when
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  people are going to be like crash prepping for them, number
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  2, when they're happening, so you understand like, OK, it's
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  going to be a stressful time, maybe I won't bug them.
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  And the number 3 to be like, OK, something might come out of
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  this. So let me like wait until after
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  to see if this is going to change a priority or something
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  like that. So visibility into those
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  meetings. That's a great point.
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  Car. It's super, super important.
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  The other thing is to communicate proactively.
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  So sharing updates early, aligning beforehand.
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  We talked a lot about that flagging risks bringing
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  solutions, not issues. That's always a sign of business
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  maturity, right? Coming to the table being like,
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  here's what's wrong, but here's how I suggest we solve it.
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  And to your point about data, Cara, making sure you're
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  showcasing the data or something changes, be like, hey, I'm
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  flagging this. This is what we saw in the data.
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  Don't be surprised when you check the the dashboard or
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  whatever. And here's what we're doing
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  about it. Proactive communication, I feel
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  like in life all around is important, but for this specific
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  occasion, proactive communication is really
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  important. Yeah.
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  And I'll just say, don't assume that just because you're copying
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  your manager on something, they're like, they've seen it or
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  they've like seen and understood the context of it.
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  I've been on the other side of that where employees of mine
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  have been like, oh, but you were copied on that.
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  And I'm like, I wasn't. And then I have to confess, like
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  I wasn't paying. I'm so sorry.
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  I wasn't paying attention or I didn't know that connected to
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  this other issue you brought up in our one-on-one.
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  So really just like thinking about your manager's time as
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  here's some of my top priorities.
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  Here's how I'm thinking about this.
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  And I was also going to say, sometimes if you are sort of
• 12:39
  thinking about your relationship with your manager or you're
• 12:40
  struggling, another thing to think about is when you fall in
• 12:44
  their week, like what's your one-on-one and when is it with
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  them and what's their week look like?
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  Some people are really structured about this in
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  general, but if you're meeting with them before they're meeting
• 12:54
  with their boss or presenting something on a regular basis,
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  then you are the feeder of information.
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  If you are meeting with them after, you're going to get maybe
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  some of the gossip, which is good.
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  So it kind of also depends on what sort of relationship you
• 13:07
  already have and what you, you know, where you want to like
• 13:09
  fall in their list of communicate people that they're
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  communicating with. And Karl, that is a perfect
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  transition to the next one, which is adapt your style to
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  your management team, to your manager, to your leadership
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  team, because it's super important to know kind of how
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  they work when they have their meetings, what they like.
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  I love your example about, oh, you were copied on it.
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  I probably have like 15 slacks, 300 emails and like 17 other
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  channels. If I missed it, like there's no
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  way I would have known about it. So I agree, I think it's
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  important for past managers. What I've done a lot of is like
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  I send the e-mail, but then I send like a Slack or a teams or
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  insert name of instant messenger and be like really important
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  e-mail. Make sure you read it.
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  You need to know it before this meeting.
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  So like adapting to the way that they want to receive their
• 13:55
  communication. Do they want more details or
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  less details? Do they like Slack?
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  Do they like formal meetings? I had a manager, I remember when
• 14:05
  I first started, he was like Lauren, I hate detail.
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  I want a high level and I was like, cool, but I was like, I
• 14:13
  come to explain this to you. So it was a really hard
• 14:17
  relationship to manage because I had to keep everything high
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  level but give him enough context to fully understand
• 14:23
  stuff. But I really appreciate it from
• 14:26
  the get go. He was like, I will literally
• 14:29
  zone out if you get in the weeds.
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  And I was like, OK, so I made everything like a theme and I
• 14:34
  put it in buckets. And that was the way that I
• 14:36
  explained things to him. That is so smart.
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  And I do think it's interesting when you have managers that
• 14:41
  you're like, OK, this is a tough style for me.
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  For me, it's when people are visual learners because I have
• 14:48
  to do the extra couple of steps to make something look
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  presentable or like I'll like realize that someone needs to
• 14:57
  kind of see it and then I might bring it to life.
• 15:00
  Or I might whiteboard it for them, or I might like sketch it
• 15:02
  out, or I might make a couple of slides versus I'm a very verbal
• 15:05
  person, so I just prefer just hearing it, you know, or just
• 15:09
  write it down for me and then I get it.
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  But I've worked with managers who I'm like, no, I need to kind
• 15:14
  of let them see this and sort of own it and feel it.
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  Which for me just takes a couple of extra steps, but it's worth
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  it. Cuz then at the end of the day
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  we're aligned and on the same page.
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  I feel like you'll laugh at me, Carl, because I bring this up on
• 15:28
  every podcast. You could do a Myers Brig
• 15:29
  assessment. Just kidding.
• 15:31
  I have to do it because you called me out.
• 15:32
  Laughed at. To your point about like there
• 15:35
  are some managers, you had a manager who was high level,
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  there are some managers who like want the weeds or want the
• 15:41
  option of weeds. And so oftentimes I'll like,
• 15:44
  I'll send an e-mail where it has these high bullet points, but
• 15:47
  then I'll link back to like, well, and here's the details so
• 15:49
  that if they need to prove or they get questions like, hey, if
• 15:52
  you get questions on this, here's the doc to send everyone
• 15:55
  too, so that they don't have to memorize the answers to the
• 15:58
  questions or anticipate them, but knowing that they might go
• 16:00
  into a situation that they're going to get additional
• 16:02
  questions. Because there's usually always
• 16:05
  additional questions. Yeah, of course.
• 16:08
  And then last but not least, something that we are very
• 16:10
  passionate about on this podcast, give feedback.
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  Feedback is super important. I think asking for what they
• 16:18
  might need to prep for a specific meeting or saying like,
• 16:21
  hey, before we go to this conference or before we do this,
• 16:25
  like what do you usually want from me?
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  And say, OK, well, I didn't hear this from you.
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  This would be the best communication channel for me.
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  It's also a two way St. giving feedback on and experience at a
• 16:34
  meeting and be like, I really don't understand how that went
• 16:37
  because this, this and this. Like it's OK to kind of have
• 16:41
  that two way St. and to give feedback about their
• 16:44
  communication style because it makes both of you better
• 16:46
  overall. Yeah, oftentimes for me, again,
• 16:50
  it's like the make you look good.
• 16:51
  A great question to ask your manager sometimes is what can I
• 16:54
  take off your plate? Like especially if they're
• 16:56
  coming to you and if or if they're not having time, Hey, I
• 16:59
  don't have time. They're cutting your meeting
• 17:00
  short. It's like you seem like there's
• 17:02
  a lot going on. Is there something I can take
• 17:04
  off your plate and just give them that out?
• 17:07
  And then you'll also kind of see where their priorities lie and.
• 17:10
  And you're a team at the end of the day, right?
• 17:12
  So it's about like, how can you help each other out and
• 17:15
  everybody wins? So just to kind of summarize,
• 17:18
  think about in your day-to-day, are you already doing it and you
• 17:21
  just didn't know it was called managing up?
• 17:22
  Or are you like, Oh my gosh, this is an aha moment.
• 17:25
  This is why everything's so hard.
• 17:27
  And hopefully you learn something.
• 17:29
  But it's really connected to leadership and to everything
• 17:32
  that we do because everybody's got a boss.
• 17:35
  And your career overall doesn't only depend on your job, it
• 17:38
  depends on the success of your manager, your team, your
• 17:41
  company. So it's really interconnected.
• 17:44
  And I would say 2 main things, really focus on communication
• 17:49
  and try to understand your leader and your broader
• 17:51
  leadership team and where they're coming from and it will
• 17:54
  help you immensely. Yeah.
• 17:56
  And I also think, you know, the person who is managing their
• 18:00
  manager well is often the person that people think of either as
• 18:05
  that deputy manager or as the next person in line for
• 18:08
  promotion. So in addition to making
• 18:09
  everything run smoothly and making your manager look good,
• 18:12
  this is also just a way for you to sort of try out leadership or
• 18:16
  show everyone else in the organization, especially your
• 18:19
  manager, that you're sort of ready and organized for a bigger
• 18:22
  role. It gives you exposure cross
• 18:24
  functioning too if you're working with different teams and
• 18:26
  different leaders. So good luck managing up and
• 18:31
  till next time. That's a wrap.
• 18:33
  Thanks for joining us on Unspoken Career Truths.
• 18:35
  Don't forget to follow us on Spotify and Instagram.
• 18:38
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