Latest / What's Uptin? / Telling Gary Vee why I unfollowed him: is hustle culture dying?

Transcript

Telling Gary Vee why I unfollowed him: is hustle culture dying? · What's Uptin?

• 0:00
  I actually unfollowed you for a couple months at one point
• 0:02
  because. Me losing with you is on me, not
• 0:04
  you. I'm sitting down with Gary
• 0:06
  Vaynerchuk, the guy who turned a New Jersey liquor store into a
• 0:10
  billion dollar brand and then did it all over again with his
• 0:13
  agency. Gary has over 38 million
• 0:16
  followers on social media and the net worth estimated over
• 0:19
  $200 million. So I don't dwell on my micro
• 0:24
  losses, I think they set up my macro wins.
• 0:27
  I asked him point blank, how would he get rich if he was just
• 0:31
  starting out today? You should create an AI dog and
• 0:34
  build up the dog and then monetize the AI dog.
• 0:37
  My name's Upton. I got laid off.
• 0:39
  Built 3,000,000 followers sold my agency and today I'm sitting
• 0:43
  across from Gary Vee. This is what's Upton.
• 0:50
  So I, I got laid off and I started my own channel 3.
• 0:55
  Now I have 3,000,000 followers. And then I started an agency
• 0:58
  where we do UGC content for brands.
• 1:00
  Good for you. So I had a bunch of clients and
• 1:03
  I just got acquired this week actually by Augustus Media.
• 1:06
  You talked to them this morning with Richard.
• 1:08
  So yeah, we're going to do a signing tomorrow and it'll, it's
• 1:11
  like official. Basically, I felt like I was
• 1:13
  torn between my agency and my, my personal brand and I, I don't
• 1:16
  want to look back and say I did two things.
• 1:19
  Well, I want to do one thing really good.
• 1:20
  Good for you. Do you think I made the right
• 1:22
  move? I think it's clear in the way
• 1:24
  that you're delivering your sentence that you made the right
• 1:27
  move for you. Yes, I don't think there's a
• 1:29
  right way. Like, you know, I do 7 things
• 1:33
  and to your point, if I picked one, I probably would do that
• 1:38
  thing. So remarkable.
• 1:40
  But for me, I'm not trying to maximize the financial impact.
• 1:44
  I get joy of juggling 7, but every person does things for
• 1:49
  different reasons. And so I think to your point,
• 1:52
  the energy I get from you when you're delivering what you just
• 1:55
  delivered. I think for you, someone who's
• 1:57
  been on TV and things that nature the North Star for you
• 2:01
  around your personal brand is much more clear.
• 2:03
  Plus, you know this. I definitely know that I've been
• 2:05
  doing it for 15 years. Having an agency and having
• 2:08
  clients, that's a grind. It's a different thing.
• 2:10
  And there there's a there's a hell of a lot more joy in
• 2:14
  building your own thing for yourself, especially when it's
• 2:16
  around you for most people, than the grind of client services.
• 2:20
  So yeah, I think it sounds right on paper, yeah.
• 2:23
  I feel like a lot of entrepreneurs have shiny object
• 2:25
  syndrome where you, you, you have an idea, you have another
• 2:29
  idea, you're in the middle of an idea and then you go and buy
• 2:32
  that, you know, you new URL. And I actually remember when I
• 2:35
  was when I was laid off, I bought like four or five domain
• 2:37
  names. And I, I remember my biggest
• 2:39
  fear was like, what about in one year when I get an e-mail
• 2:42
  saying, do you want to renew these?
• 2:44
  My biggest fear was looking back and being like, Oh yeah, what
• 2:46
  happened to those? So do you, do you see that right
• 2:49
  now with, with a lot of like newer entrepreneurs?
• 2:50
  And do you have that? Yeah, of course I do.
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  I mean, I think anyone who's an entrepreneur has that.
• 2:55
  I mean, I think it's one of the great gifts of being an
• 2:58
  entrepreneur is that your creativity, your delusional
• 3:01
  optimism, your curiosity. I think these are strengths.
• 3:06
  You know, in American baseball, if you get three hits out of
• 3:09
  every 10 at bats, you go to the Hall of Fame.
• 3:12
  And I've always thought about that.
• 3:13
  In UFC, everybody loses, you know, for the most part.
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  I think entrepreneurship's the same way.
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  I mean, I've probably spent 10s of thousands of dollars in my
• 3:22
  career on wasted URLs, you know, to the, I probably haven't done
• 3:27
  that in a long time. I've realized that ideas can be
• 3:30
  fleeting, but I, I view that as a strength.
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  You know, the way I think about business or especially if you're
• 3:38
  a purebred entrepreneurs, you're inherently creative, you're
• 3:41
  inherently curious. And you know, the collateral
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  damage of micro losses of websites you register you never
• 3:50
  executed on is a byproduct of your actual gift.
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  And so I don't dwell on my micro losses, I think they set up my
• 4:00
  macro wins. Interesting.
• 4:03
  So I got to be honest with you, Gary, I actually unfollowed you
• 4:06
  for a couple months at one point because of the hustle culture
• 4:09
  content. And it was like, you know, if if
• 4:12
  you have time to watch Netflix, you have time to build a
• 4:13
  business and it would stress me out.
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  This is maybe four years ago. I'm following you again.
• 4:17
  I love it. But do you have you have you
• 4:20
  shield away or leaned back a little bit on that hustle,
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  hustle culture? You know, I'm always empathetic
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  to that statement, but you know, in this format, you, I think
• 4:31
  you'll appreciate this. Like, I don't think it was ever
• 4:35
  a significant piece of my content.
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  I think what's great about making content is it's all
• 4:41
  there. I think that if we did a
• 4:43
  forensic audit on my content, I think that that was a popular
• 4:48
  narrative of the media a little bit around me that I felt was
• 4:54
  unfair. You know, I mean, I put out an
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  in literally the words out of my last interview, 20% of the
• 5:03
  conversation, I said that hard work was part of the equation of
• 5:06
  building something meaningful. But I think the hustle porn or
• 5:11
  hustle culture tag on me was lazy and more importantly, was
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  grounded in one viral post on Medium that was littered with
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  falsities, where the writer quietly and privately has
• 5:25
  apologized to me and that hung around.
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  But do I think hard work is part of the equation to build
• 5:32
  something? Yes.
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  Do I think that I've always talked about sleeping 7-8 hours
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  a day? Yes.
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  Do I believe that every other word out of my mouth is be self
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  aware and figure out what makes you happy?
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  Yes. Do I think that I talk more
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  about the process than the actual gifts?
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  Yes. Do I talk about not having
• 5:53
  Lamborghinis and watches and Rolexes and private planes?
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  Yes. So you know, for me, it's always
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  been very balanced. I'm very empathetic and very
• 6:04
  respectful of when people decide they do want to follow me, they
• 6:07
  don't want to follow me. I think what's really
• 6:11
  interesting about me is I think I get very to the heart of
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  matters. So I feel like when people
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  unfollow me, for example, especially someone who has a
• 6:19
  sense of me, I think they themselves and are in a point of
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  time where they're not feeling at their best.
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  I bet you that you're unfollowing of me.
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  I feel very confident saying this was probably also happening
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  at a time where there was things going on with you professionally
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  that what is tough about me is that I'm suffocating to like
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  this is what it is. And a lot of times that's to
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  your point, that's not what someone wants to hear right now
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  because they're in a tough part. But I but I think that for me, I
• 6:54
  don't think I avoid that subject matter.
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  I never felt that it was a major.
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  In fact, Crush It, my original kind of platform book, I talk
• 7:04
  about making 50,000 a year. I'm working 9:00 to 5:00.
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  And if you're actually happy and have no anxiety, you're a
• 7:09
  winner. So I think, I think that I've
• 7:13
  never personally associated with me being romantic or putting
• 7:19
  hustle on a pedestal. I've always thought of it as one
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  of the four to seven meaningful ingredients.
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  But for me that was always trumped by love your process
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  over the things that come along with it.
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  So yeah, I never really, I don't really think about it.
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  I stopped using the word hustle because it was weaponized
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  against me and I just changed it and used the word work ethic
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  because I think it matters. I don't think anyone watching
• 7:48
  here is delusional enough to think that you can just wish
• 7:55
  meaningful outcomes. And I think a lot of times when
• 7:58
  I was using like you got to go hard, it was if you're
• 8:01
  complaining or if you wanna build some sort of empire like
• 8:05
  this is one of the ingredients. You hit on something actually
• 8:08
  very big for me, because that's exactly what happened when I was
• 8:12
  laid off. The hardest thing for me going
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  from a corporate guy to a entrepreneur was managing
• 8:18
  myself. I, I completely underestimated
• 8:21
  that this is a, a skill that need to be had.
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  When I had a manager, I worked Monday through Friday.
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  And if she was happy on a Friday at six PMI was happy.
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  And you know, I thought a little bit about work here and there,
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  but then all of a sudden Saturday is no different than a
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  Wednesday and no different than a Tuesday.
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  And so the, the ability to say, Hey, I need to work or hey, I
• 8:38
  should watch Netflix or I should go out tonight became very, very
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  like convoluted in my brain, right?
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  How, how to, to kind of learn to manage myself.
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  It's an actual thing that I had to learn.
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  And it's hard. And to your point, the other
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  thing that's very tough from going from employee to
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  entrepreneur is you knew where your paycheck was coming from.
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  So to your point, you have this guy showing up in your screen
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  like screaming at a time where you're like scared if you're
• 9:04
  going to make it. Sometimes it's incredibly
• 9:07
  motivating and other times it's, hey, I need to stop listening to
• 9:11
  Gary for a little while because it's not the right medicine or,
• 9:16
  or things that I need to be hearing.
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  I've always been incredibly detached from my belief that I
• 9:22
  was the right thing for every person at every moment.
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  I think that I'm in. I'm very clear on what I believe
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  in. I believe my intent is
• 9:31
  incredibly pure. And so that has given me
• 9:34
  incredible Peace of Mind of when I'm red hot, you know, like my
• 9:39
  brand and my relevance and my heat also absent flows.
• 9:44
  You know, there's times where I'm incredibly on fire and
• 9:47
  there's other times where like I'm Charlie Brown and everyone's
• 9:50
  heard enough from me and they don't need it.
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  But when at an 8 billion person level, I know that today is the
• 9:59
  day someone needs to hear patience or hard work.
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  And that keeps me motivated to put out content because I
• 10:07
  believe in the things that I talked about.
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  One of the best things I learned from you was especially in
• 10:11
  content was celebrate, you know, don't don't get too excited when
• 10:15
  you get a viral video and conversely, don't get too down
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  when you have a flop. And that that was so profound to
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  me because the brain is very, you know, has addictive
• 10:24
  personalities. These algorithms are written to
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  addict us, right? You know what's funny?
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  I, I, I, I'd like to jump in on that.
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  The algorithms are written to be relevant to us.
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  Meaning there's been a similar to the way I think I got
• 10:38
  mislabeled as hustle porn. I think the platforms have
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  become a scapegoat. So the algorithms are actually
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  written for relevance. So no crap.
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  I get endorphin hits from the New York Jets.
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  It's my passion. But you might not.
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  The algorithms are written for relevance and in your interest
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  graph. I think we have become
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  incredibly good at blaming them and that's why I jumped in.
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  Right now. I I think for everyone who's
• 11:08
  listening, I could not challenge you more.
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  You want to be less addicted to your phone?
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  Go to your Instagram right now and search 5 things you're not
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  interested in. I'm not interested in high
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  fashion. I'm not interested in race cars,
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  even a Formula One was amazing. I'm not interested in hard
• 11:27
  liquor. I'm not interested in golf.
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  If I went right now into my Instagram at TikTok and typed in
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  all the things I just mentioned, followed 6 accounts and liked 20
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  pieces of content across the board, tomorrow I would open up
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  my phone. Tomorrow I would open my phone
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  and it would have content around these things and I'd be off my
• 11:46
  phone in 3 minutes. I, I think, I think it's time
• 11:50
  for us to be a little bit more mature about this.
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  I think we've become incredibly good at blaming these platforms
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  for our own shortcomings. I think I, as a content creator,
• 12:00
  do something similar, which is why I'm bringing it up.
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  I think we need a little more accountability on this.
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  And so the algorithms are written for relevance and
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  interest, which then trigger endorphins.
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  And I think that I hope that helped someone understand how to
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  manage their algos a little bit. Yeah, when we talked about
• 12:21
  TikTok, you were early on to call TikTok as a as a big thing.
• 12:24
  What's next? I think live streaming is very
• 12:27
  big. I think Someone Like You could
• 12:29
  do extremely well if you live streamed.
• 12:31
  I think you going on TikTok live or on Twitter Spaces or Twitch
• 12:36
  or Kik and doing a new show daily live with interviews would
• 12:41
  be very successful for you. I'm very hot on that right now.
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  Really, I feel like a lot of people don't do appointment
• 12:48
  viewing online. I mean, I, I know there's a
• 12:49
  market share for live, don't get me wrong, but you think it's
• 12:52
  going to grow? I think there's a ton of
• 12:54
  examples that are the counter to that TTPN.
• 12:57
  Like it's like a big thing in your space that I think people
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  TuneIn for. More importantly, I think you
• 13:03
  don't need to do appointment viewing.
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  TikTok, for example, if you're active on live and you're
• 13:08
  holding an audience, they will just put you in the for you page
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  that doesn't require appointment viewing.
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  So I don't think of live streaming as required
• 13:18
  appointment viewing. I would also say that if I was
• 13:21
  Clancy, the CEO of Twitch, I would tell you an unbelievable
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  amount of data that supports people do consume live with
• 13:30
  appointment viewing. So I think live shopping, excuse
• 13:34
  me, live streaming suits. I'm obsessed with live social
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  shopping, the QVC efficacion of social medias here.
• 13:41
  You know, we've we've seen each other in Asia in the past.
• 13:44
  And so this has been a huge thing in China for a long time.
• 13:48
  I think it's finally here in the West.
• 13:49
  Is it do you think? It's because I remember in 2021
• 13:52
  TikTok did a whole thing with Walmart and it was a live
• 13:54
  shopping. Do you think it's taking a
• 13:56
  little longer in the US it seems?
• 13:57
  It has and we're very advanced and far along and appears into
• 14:01
  that execution. Whatnot is a standalone app
• 14:06
  that's going to do 10 billion in GMV gross merchandise value this
• 14:10
  year. Most people don't even know what
• 14:12
  why not is. TikTok shop is annihilating it
• 14:14
  in the US now. So I think we're here.
• 14:17
  Yeah, yeah. And so you always talk about
• 14:19
  kindness. Do you think as a society we are
• 14:23
  more kind or less kind than a couple years ago?
• 14:25
  More kind. Really.
• 14:27
  Yes, but I believe that the that most people would say less.
• 14:31
  I think we're in cycles and I think we are just in a cycle
• 14:36
  right now where we're just deciding to over focus on the
• 14:39
  .0001% of bat. I just, I don't know how else to
• 14:44
  explain this to people. Then every time you're like, but
• 14:48
  what about this or this murder or this bad thing?
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  I'm like, yes. And there are 8.3 billion people
• 14:54
  on earth. And there was an ungodly amount
• 14:57
  of kindness today. I think that we have become
• 15:00
  infatuated. I think that the political
• 15:03
  landscape around most of the world is incredibly polarizing.
• 15:06
  But I actually believe we are more kind.
• 15:10
  We continue to progress in many, many ways.
• 15:13
  I believe that people are hyper focused on the negativity right
• 15:19
  now. And some of that, some of that's
• 15:21
  biological too, right? You know, like the Cavemen days
• 15:24
  where we're wired to see what's going to attack.
• 15:27
  Us. I would also say that we've had
• 15:28
  a lot of prosperity and a lot of first world countries in Europe
• 15:32
  and the US and others have overcoddled in this last
• 15:35
  generation of parenting, which has made people incredibly
• 15:38
  insecure and soft. And so I think we're, you know,
• 15:41
  I get enormous amounts of, I mean, in a world where I'm
• 15:44
  getting millions of views a week across platforms, not only on my
• 15:49
  own platform, but other people posting my stuff, I get dozens
• 15:52
  and hundreds of negative comments or attacks.
• 15:57
  I spend no time on it. I, I, I spend enough time to
• 16:01
  make sure that I'm not losing my way.
• 16:03
  I don't want to be delusional, right?
• 16:05
  I don't want to be an echo chamber, but I do not sit and
• 16:11
  dwell on my mistakes or negative comments.
• 16:14
  I think most people do. And I think that has a lot to do
• 16:17
  with modern parenting, much more than modern technology.
• 16:21
  Being too soft on kids. I think so.
• 16:24
  I think less sports, more 8th place trophies, less merit, less
• 16:29
  fighting, you know, like, you know, like everyone, you know,
• 16:32
  like believe it or not, I think a little back, you know, little
• 16:35
  school yard fight taught people humility and to show respect.
• 16:39
  You know, everyone's a tough guy on Twitter.
• 16:41
  You know, I, I think parents are involved in kids lives too much
• 16:46
  interesting meaning like they're over cut, like protecting
• 16:49
  parents fight kids fights these days.
• 16:51
  They write their papers, They yell at teachers.
• 16:54
  Yeah, I think modern parenting, well intended by the way.
• 16:57
  I think modern parents thought being very involved in her kids
• 17:02
  lives was a good thing. And to a degree, of course it
• 17:05
  is. But I think when you start to
• 17:07
  fight a kids fight the payroll. I think we grew up in an era
• 17:12
  where like, maybe you would borrow money from parents, but
• 17:14
  now so many kids are on the payroll in their 20s and 30s.
• 17:19
  I, I, I think we've lost our way a little bit.
• 17:21
  And how about the the male kind of loneliness epidemic, A lot of
• 17:25
  males getting, you know, left behind in their 20s and to that
• 17:28
  point of kind of still living at home.
• 17:29
  I think there's a female loneliness as well.
• 17:32
  Obviously, I'm very aware of the male I, I, I have a lot of male
• 17:34
  fans and I understand that. Yeah, I think there's some truth
• 17:37
  to that. Of course, again, I think
• 17:39
  sometimes that lacks accountability.
• 17:41
  The fix is going outside, grabbing a coffee, grabbing a
• 17:44
  beer. Sports, right?
• 17:45
  I mean basic stuff. Again.
• 17:46
  But people are insecure. People are insecure people.
• 17:52
  Here's my main thing. We're very quick to being like,
• 17:56
  but they said we were losers. And I'm like, well, if in this
• 18:01
  scenario, if the left is saying you're a loser, why did you
• 18:03
  believe that there? We need to get into a place of
• 18:06
  like, why do you believe like when I've like when I'm being
• 18:11
  bullied, AKA when someone's attempting to bully me, I don't
• 18:15
  believe them and I and I. Do you see it as a projection of
• 18:19
  them? Of course, I actually feel
• 18:23
  wildly sympathetic. I feel like I feel like when
• 18:26
  someone is attacking, it comes from a place of insecurity, a
• 18:31
  lack of confidence. And so, you know, I tell a lot
• 18:35
  of my guy youthful friends or admirers who are like, yeah, but
• 18:40
  you know what they want to say the women or the opposite sex or
• 18:43
  the left, Like, why do you believe them?
• 18:46
  I really do think that we've parented in a way.
• 18:50
  I really believe this, that we've parented in the way in the
• 18:52
  last 30-40 years that has been very focused on blaming a lot of
• 19:00
  fingers and not enough thumbs. I believe that for example, when
• 19:04
  you said, hey, Gary, I unfollowed you, I created
• 19:10
  context to why I felt that I was mislabeled, but in my brain as I
• 19:17
  was talking, I was also thinking about, I took on accountability
• 19:22
  and decided, oh wait, the word hustles being weaponized.
• 19:26
  I didn't cry. I changed it to the word work
• 19:29
  ethic. I believe that when you
• 19:31
  unfollowed me, that was me not bringing you value at that time.
• 19:36
  I take on that accountability. I don't think that means that
• 19:39
  I'm not valuable. I think the same day you
• 19:41
  unfollowed me for that, that word of like, hard work helped
• 19:45
  someone, but me losing with you is on me, not you.
• 19:49
  But it was also about what's going on in your world that made
• 19:52
  that happen. And I think that balanced
• 19:55
  ability to have conviction in what you're doing.
• 19:59
  And I know what my intent is and I know what it is, but also
• 20:03
  understanding. Well, it wasn't what was right
• 20:06
  for you at that time. That's a balance of confidence
• 20:09
  and accountability that I think a lot of people could get value
• 20:12
  out of. And that continues to motivate
• 20:15
  me to put out that kind of content and answer this question
• 20:17
  the way I just did. The confidence is really
• 20:19
  interesting. I think more people would strive
• 20:21
  to have that kind of confidence where they could analyze the way
• 20:25
  you're analyzing. I think my confidence comes from
• 20:27
  my intent. I think most people realize they
• 20:29
  don't actually care about other people.
• 20:32
  I think most people deep down in their loneliness knows know that
• 20:35
  they're making pretend to put out good content because they
• 20:37
  want your money. And they want it's ego driven.
• 20:39
  Correct. I want your likes, I want your
• 20:41
  money. I know how to get likes and how
• 20:45
  to get money without you. I did it before I was this.
• 20:49
  And and when in your life did you reach that point?
• 20:53
  Pretty early because I live the the life that I'm trying to get
• 20:56
  people to understand the value of which is I, I played sports
• 21:00
  and games every day of my life. I was losing constantly.
• 21:03
  I grew up in New Jersey in tough neighborhoods, so there was a
• 21:05
  lot of scrapping and fighting. And it was I also grew up in guy
• 21:10
  culture in New Jersey in the 80s and 90s.
• 21:12
  My best friends made fun of me 24 hours a day.
• 21:15
  That was like how that was our love language.
• 21:17
  So I got very accustomed to it. I, I was good at sports, but
• 21:22
  then eventually not good at it 'cause I wasn't big or strong or
• 21:24
  fast enough. So I lost I, I, I was an
• 21:28
  immigrant. I got bad grades, so grown-ups
• 21:31
  were telling me I was a loser. I got accustomed to losing
• 21:35
  quickly and that actually made me not scared of losing.
• 21:39
  I really, This is why straight A students that grew up in middle
• 21:43
  class or upper middle class or rich families are so vulnerable
• 21:46
  in their early 20s. They're not accustomed to
• 21:49
  losing. The world is losing.
• 21:52
  They start to lose and they're like, what is this?
• 21:54
  They look around for like, where's the help?
• 21:57
  The help's not there. They start to get upset.
• 22:00
  I'm surprised you didn't bring up parenting like parents.
• 22:02
  Your relationship with your parents, right?
• 22:04
  Obviously your parents didn't coddle you for getting 8th, 8th
• 22:07
  place in sports. Do you think that has a big
• 22:10
  role? Too Oh my God.
• 22:11
  I mean, you probably know this because you know a little bit on
• 22:14
  me. I think 15% of my content is
• 22:16
  talking about my mother being the best mother of all time.
• 22:18
  Like I'm. I'll tell you another thing that
• 22:22
  makes me work. I don't think that Gary Vee is
• 22:25
  me. I'm the byproduct of Tamara and
• 22:30
  Sasha Vaynerchuk immigrant upbringing in America.
• 22:34
  I'm completely detached from. I mean, that's where the
• 22:37
  confidence comes from. I don't get validation from the
• 22:40
  money I make or the attention I garner because I think I'm the
• 22:43
  byproduct of something dramatically bigger than me.
• 22:48
  I just want to talk about AI. So what?
• 22:51
  What should more creators be thinking about when it comes to
• 22:54
  AI? Obviously like we're using it in
• 22:55
  in our back end. Using it, not being scared of
• 22:58
  it. I I think creators should be
• 23:03
  making fake characters with it more.
• 23:05
  Like like AI influencer? Yeah, I think you should create
• 23:08
  an AI dog and build up the dog and then monetize the AI dog.
• 23:13
  On my account or on a separate account, Yes, and he's my little
• 23:16
  sidekick. Yes, and.
• 23:18
  And your fake girlfriend and your fake brother and your fake
• 23:21
  mentor. I, I think everyone's going to
• 23:23
  be in the intellectual property business.
• 23:26
  That's probably if you're an influencer that has attention.
• 23:31
  Creating IP to give the attention to I think is a very
• 23:34
  good idea. Interesting.
• 23:36
  OK. All right.
• 23:37
  Last question, Persian you, Mona, you married a Persian.
• 23:43
  What's your favorite Persian food?
• 23:46
  So by so I'm going to This is very interesting, so.
• 23:53
  Congratulations by the way, looks like an amazing.
• 23:56
  The the actual true answer to this question is the two things
• 24:01
  that I consume most when we all the Persians get together is
• 24:05
  actually also the thing that I most consumed as a Russian,
• 24:09
  which is sunflower seeds and tea.
• 24:12
  The amount of sunflower seeds and tea while playing Hawk
• 24:16
  Shalam, you know like that card game has become my Persian life.
• 24:21
  We consume a ton of real dates, you know, is a big part of it,
• 24:25
  but. Lots of fresh fruit everywhere
• 24:27
  you go. Lots.
• 24:27
  Of Mona's going to laugh because I always call it like Gorma
• 24:30
  Sarbi or whatever, but I don't know the I don't remember what
• 24:32
  the official name. Is Gorma Sabzi very close?
• 24:35
  Very close. Brother, that would probably be
• 24:37
  the official dish, but the reality is the sunflower seed
• 24:41
  tea combo is like, I mean, it's pretty scary how much tea and
• 24:47
  sunflower seeds I consume. Especially like I'm pretty sure
• 24:50
  I grew up late night parties at 11 midnight.
• 24:53
  They're all just chugging the tea and it's like it runs
• 24:56
  through them like water. Yeah, the late, the, you know,
• 24:58
  the late night food culture that to your point, like the whole
• 25:03
  like nap in the middle of the day, but like actually like the,
• 25:05
  the that's a, that's like the 2:00 in the morning, like still
• 25:10
  eating dinner thing has been really like a fun addition for
• 25:12
  me. Russians did it different.
• 25:14
  We just, my Russian uncles and relatives just drank vodka and
• 25:17
  they'd go to sleep at like 7 because they were complete
• 25:20
  Alcoholics. So this has been a fun addition
• 25:23
  in my life. Amazing.
• 25:24
  Gary, thank you so much for your time.
• 25:25
  I really appreciate it. Thanks for listening to this
• 25:27
  episode of What's Up 10 where I bring you inside the mines
• 25:30
  driving. Tech, money and power.
• 25:32
  Follow along on YouTube, Spotify, Apple or wherever you
• 25:35
  get your podcasts. You can also follow my personal
• 25:37
  account on Instagram at Upton. Would love to connect.
• 25:40
  With you.