Latest / Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast, Helping you create a profitable, sustainable law firm you love / Episode 296 Leading with Integrity in Family Law with Valerie Fenchel

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Episode 296 Leading with Integrity in Family Law with Valerie Fenchel · Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast, Helping you create a profitable, sustainable law firm you love

• 0:01
  Intro: Welcome to the wealthy woman lawyer podcast. What
• 0:05
  you could hang out with successful women lawyers, ask them about growing their firms, managing resources like time, team, and systems, mastering money issues, and more? Then take an insight or two to help you build a wealth generating law firm. Each week, your host, Devina Frederick, takes an in-depth look at how to think like a CEO, attract clients who you love to serve and will pay you on time, and create a profitable, sustainable firm you love. Devina is founder and CEO of Wealthy Woman Lawyer, and her goal is to give you the information you need to scale your law firm business from 6 to 7 figures in gross annual revenue so you can fully fund and still have time to enjoy the lifestyle of your dreams. Now here's Devina.
• 0:49
  Davina: Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the wealthy woman lawyer podcast. I'm your host, Devina Frederick. And my guest today is Valerie Finchell. Valerie is the CEO and founder of Finchell Family Law, where she empowers clients to navigate marriage and divorce toward more vibrant futures. As an experienced negotiator and litigator, she has presented winning arguments before California's Court of Appeal and continues to advocate for her client's custodial rights and financial relief.
• 1:16
  Valerie, who graduated pi Beta Kappa from UC Santa Barbara and earned her JD from UC Davis School of Law, has been recognized as a Super Lawyers Rising Star from 02/2018 through 02/2024. With extensive experience helping families in crisis, she focuses on crafting tailored strategies that protect children's best interests while treating her clients with the same care and attention she would give to family. So please join me in welcoming Valerie to the Wealthy Woman Lawyer podcast. Hi, Valerie. It's so good to have you here.
• 1:51
  Valerie: Hi, Dania. Thank you so much for inviting me. I'm happy to be here.
• 1:54
  Davina: Good. I've seen a few of your posts on social medias, and I thought you would be a great guest because you've been talking about growing your law firm and how you have successfully grown your law firm. You were telling me that when you started out, you were you felt kind of young, starting out at 30 to grow your law firm. Tell me what your journey was to becoming a lawyer, and then what made you make a decision to start your own firm.
• 2:19
  Valerie: Yeah. I I grew up with a family law attorney mom, and, you know, my dad's a CPA, and, you know, dinner, and I heard non confidential discussions of family law topics, and I thought I would never wanna do that. But I yeah. I guess I was an argumentative little girl. My parents told me I should go to law school, so I ended up going.
• 2:44
  I thought I wanted to be a DA, but I didn't really like the gender dynamics in the DA's office. So I kinda tried a few other things, and eventually, I landed in family law where I didn't think I would be, but I I really loved it. I loved helping people in that personal level and providing that kind of personal value that I didn't think I could get working with companies or that I didn't feel like I got from before. And, you know, I had a really amazing mentor eventually, Esther Lerner. I'm at a boutique family law firm in San Francisco, and I learned how to build up my own biz you know, my own caseload, development activities under a mentorship, and eventually, I kind of spread my wings and decided to apply.
• 3:27
  Davina: You mentioned something about gender dynamics. What give me an idea of what you mean by that.
• 3:33
  Valerie: I think when you're a young woman, and I don't know. I always had, like, a higher boy, then I get kind of I don't know. More, I don't know, informal maybe mannerisms. I didn't fit the mold of a kind of serious DA, and I think, you know, I I think that was a part of it, kind of, but that maybe was in my own head. I don't know.
• 4:00
  I interned at the prosecutor's office in the Capitol case unit in DC, and I thought what they were doing was really cool and interesting, even though a bit disturbing. But, yeah, I just felt this kind of dynamic there and in other DA's offices where I interviewed, where it was like a boys club kind of. And I didn't eventually, I decided I didn't really wanna be in a boys club. I didn't want that additional struggle to the struggle of just becoming a seasoned deterrent when law school hasn't taught you much. So I didn't want kind of the double whammy.
• 4:32
  I decided to kind of go elsewhere, even though I, you know, did feel passionately at the time about, you know, making our community safer and putting on trial kind of thing.
• 4:42
  Davina: Yeah. I appreciate you sharing that because I think that's a common, you know, difference between men and women. Oftentimes, women are kind of in these situations where we didn't anticipate we would be in these sort of situations, and then we have to look at it and say, okay. What battles do I wanna fight? And I'm sure there are a lot of women lawyers who are listening to this who can really resonate with that and probably have had their own experiences.
• 5:05
  So I'm glad that you found kind of your home and somebody that would guide you and mentor you. You went out on your own. You started your own firm. What would what did that feel like when you first did that? I mean, what were the thoughts that were going through your head if you can think back that far and remember?
• 5:22
  Valerie: Yeah. I know that at the time, my you know, my I was engaged at the time, and my fiance at the time was an entrepreneur, and he was really encouraging of me, which was a big deal. I think that was a big reason why I, you know, did it so soon. And I also had a lot of friends that had started their own firms and people from my law school. And it all kinda helped me believe it was possible as well as my mom having her own law firm.
• 5:51
  And so that kind of brought a little bit of a script for me, but it was very scary. I really didn't wanna disappoint my boss, my mentor. And I would you know, I was nervous. Am I actually gonna do this? Or am I gonna end up starting my own firm and then just laying around and watching Netflix and not doing anything because I don't know.
• 6:09
  You know? So yeah. There's a into my head. But I think mostly it was really exciting to me. Like, all of a sudden, I don't have to color within the lines.
• 6:16
  I can do whatever I want, and I can become an entrepreneur, like, on Shark Tank. And I was just so excited
• 6:21
  Davina: to get to
• 6:21
  Valerie: create something of my own and get to hire whoever I wanted, and it just felt really liberating.
• 6:28
  Davina: That's wonderful. That's wonderful. So tell me how you started out. Did you start out immediately? Were you kind of a solo to begin with and kind of built to a certain point, or did you immediately sort of invest in it and start hiring people right away?
• 6:42
  Or what did you do? What was your approach?
• 6:44
  Valerie: Yeah. I had a bunch of really high conflict intent cases that were going to trial or in trial that had been referred to me personally through networking groups I was in, and all the clients were gonna come with me. So I had a a pretty significant book of business just for me, and I I needed help. And that was part of why I started my own firm. They really needed an associate attorney where I was at.
• 7:06
  I needed a lot of help. So I was already kinda on a mission to find people at the time. I used Craigslist, which sounds silly, but I found some really amazing, extremely experienced, like, multi decade of experienced attorneys to kinda help me manage the caseload. And then I think a month in, I I found an associate attorney and a paralegal and a legal assistant, and I kind of put the firm together pretty quickly because otherwise I would have drowned. And I think that I knew that I wanted to be more doing the CEO kind of work of creating the business and developing the team, And I couldn't do that with, my boots on the ground, you know, in in the war of litigation.
• 7:48
  Davina: That's interesting. What I let me ask you about this because I've had conversations with many women law firm owners who, if particularly if they're younger, they have a reticence to hiring people who are more experienced because they are afraid that there will be some judgment on them as a lawyer, that they won't measure up. They feel like they need to know more than their employees know. How am I gonna manage somebody who's older than me or more experienced than me? Did you ever have those thoughts, or did you consider that, or have any fear around that?
• 8:28
  And if you did, how did you deal with that?
• 8:30
  Valerie: Yeah. I think that managing people older than me can be, you know, a struggle with impostor syndrome, that kind of thing. Like, I'm a boss, but, you know, I feel like I could be her kid or, you know, whatever. But at the same time, I think the power of starting your own business is the level of the people that you hire. And if you are capping the talent and abilities at your own, then I just I can't imagine doing that because I I really tried to remove my ego from my business.
• 9:10
  It's it's not about me. It's about serving the clients. And I think that I'd much rather have attorneys with thirty plus years of experience or that are killing it in court time after time, or that their true passion is going into battle, you know, litigating. Then someone like me whose passion is growing and managing the business. You know?
• 9:31
  Like, I don't want someone like me, and I don't want someone less experienced than me. I do think there is value in hiring someone with less experience that's really gonna look towards you as a mentor. And I think that's a lot easier done when you're older for whatever reason. So, yeah, I think my junior associates have always been younger than me. I mean, I don't think I did that intentionally, but I think that's what's worked out.
• 9:52
  I think it is harder at least to sometimes to give a lawyer kind of feedback if someone's older than you. So usually if someone's older than me and they have, you know, different mission or values or different way of practicing that I don't like, that that doesn't work out. Right? But I think the goal is to find people that are that have your same mission and values, but are extremely more experienced and gifted than you are so that you can provide that level of value to clients rather than capping yourself out.
• 10:20
  Davina: Yeah. No. I think that's great advice. I and it's and and it surprises me that more people don't do that or think that way. The other thing that sort of comes up for a lot of women lawyers, when they're starting their own firm and they're they're looking at hiring more experienced people, they're going, how can I afford them?
• 10:36
  Can I afford them? Because we're talking, you know, well into 6 figures, you know, sometimes, a hundred and 50, 2 hundred, 3 hundred. Like, there's there's a range of salaries that people look at, and they sort of freak out. How can I, be sure I'm gonna be able to pay them? Did that enter into your thoughts?
• 10:54
  And, how did you handle that?
• 10:57
  Valerie: Yeah. I remember my first associate attorney when she came when she went from being a contract hourly to full time, I was terrified because all of a sudden, her pay wasn't gonna be capped by her hours. It was just gonna be this guaranteed salary, and what if I stopped bringing in business? And I think that's when I discovered it was really just about my confidence and my belief in myself, and the rest was gonna pan out and be okay. But I think the moment you kind of tighten up and you believe you can't do it, that's when you can't do it.
• 11:24
  So I think it's just believing that it's possible and doing everything you can with marketing and business development and whatever else to keep it going. But I do think the more you pay someone, the better talent you'll get and the more buy in you'll get. I don't think that's the entire piece of having a successful employee, but I think that's a pretty big piece.
• 11:45
  Davina: What are I just, created a podcast on employee retention. So I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. What do you think are some of the some of the factors that go into sort of getting that buy in and loyalty from your employees?
• 12:00
  Valerie: Yeah. It's hard because I'm not the person most knowledgeable, right, that they would be. Mean, I'm always guessing what they're thinking, and I don't actually know. But I think that for me right now, I have this team of really high performing lawyers and paralegals and administrative staff. And for me, I just try to approach everything with curiosity, kindness, and respect.
• 12:23
  And I don't think I have all the answers. And I I try really hard not to micromanage or give critical feedback unless I really need to. And I try to celebrate their win. I think it's been hard for me to really put together this high caliber team, and, you know, you can't do that if you have people that don't share your mission and values or aren't practicing in a manner that you trust. Right?
• 12:48
  But I think once you develop a sense of trust with people, I think for me, it's about, you know, loosening my grip on everything in order to let them really thrive and and shine and feel like they're piece of the success of the business.
• 13:03
  Davina: Right. Right. You talk about your mission and values. Tell me a little bit about that. What do you think sets you apart from other family law firms in your area in terms of your values and your your philosophy?
• 13:17
  Valerie: Yeah. Think that I mean, there's all different ways to practice family law. I think there's all different kinds of family law firms. For me, personally, I get really excited to help people with really family law issues or really high stakes where the average firm isn't gonna cut it. And it's about, you know, putting together a a legal team that is as passionate about helping those kind of people and equipped to do so.
• 13:49
  And I I think that's how we stand apart. We don't we don't just do the average family law case. You know, we have relationships with private judges, and everyone that works for me is, you know, extremely talented as far as handling these complex financial cases. It's just where I feel like I've I've attracted a different kind of caliber of attorney, and we're in a different league. But at the same time, I think there's a big myth in law firms that are focused on these complex, high asset cases where they they're so formal that they stop treating family law clients like like humans going through the hardest time in their life.
• 14:27
  And so I think it's critical to not just have the acumen and, you know, sophistication and litigation ability to handle these cases, also have the bedside manner. And I don't think every family law attorney is created equally. I think there's a lot of family law attorneys that nerd out on drafting briefs and, you know, that kind of thing and fighting a chord, and then don't know how to speak with compassion to a client. And I've interviewed a lot of the people, and they sound great on paper, but you want someone that can speak to you how they've handled a client that complained about them, or how they have dealt with someone with a difficult personality or, you know, I want clarity that I wanna know how many domestic violence cases they've handled because there's some firms that refuse to talk about domestic violence with clients. Doesn't mean they haven't helped the client with domestic violence.
• 15:13
  It just means they haven't been asking the right questions. So I think it's, you know, really taking a more human approach to knowing kind of the subject matter of the kinawa we practice.
• 15:23
  Davina: Right. So let's shift gears a little bit and talk about you your business development. Because when you started out, this is also something that, you know, when people are starting out, how am I gonna get business? What am I gonna do? Do I need to be on TikTok all the time?
• 15:37
  What what do I need to get business? And I'd like if you could share with us kind of some of the things you did when you first started, and then how maybe that's changed over the years as you've grown and gotten more sophisticated and more sophisticated in your marketing strategies and also develop this team? What like, because I think sometimes people start out, and it's them, and they're marketing one way, but then they start to find as I've developed this team, how do I leverage that? So how did you start, and where how are you now with in terms of your business development strategy?
• 16:09
  Valerie: Yeah. I think, you know, when I started, was just so excited. You know? So I I had built or I, you know, I had a caseload from the referral sources I'd gotten to know from a few different, you know, networking groups. So I that that was kind of what I did.
• 16:30
  But I also I think I leveraged, like I don't think Instagram was around yet. Don't think maybe I don't think I was using But on Facebook, you know, I I would, you know, do announcements, I was excited about my firm. I had a newsletter on Mailchimp from the beginning just to give updates, but I would write it myself, and I would just overthink everything. I'd write my own blogs and overthink everything. They were all terrible.
• 16:52
  But, you know, I just I just did the best I could because I no idea what I was doing. But I had, you know, parties for when I opened my firm or when I moved to a bigger building. I had, like, a tropical holiday party around, you know, Hanukkah Christmas every year. I don't know. You know, I would just kind of do whatever I could that I could think of, but I don't think there was really a method to my madness.
• 17:18
  Those are sporadic. But after, I think, my first year, I I started using vendors, and I learned that the quicker I would be able to delegate those kind of responsibilities, the better the content would be because it'd be someone that was paying to have a regular cadence. Even if it wasn't perfect, it was better to get something out there. And I learned that someone that's not an attorney and not me is generally gonna probably have a better, more engaging social media content or even newsletter content than I'm gonna have because I'm a boy that's gonna overthink everything and make it too intellectual. So that's kinda the beginning.
• 17:55
  Davina: Right. How do you think that contrasts with sort of your business development strategies now that you have a team and you're sort of promoting not just you, but the team?
• 18:06
  Valerie: Yeah. I think, you know, it's changed over time. You know, when I when I started my firm, even though I had a team, I was still the face of the operation, and I just had kind of a contract help or associate help behind the scenes doing drafting, but I was kind of the warrior. Mhmm. And then as I found as I groomed my associate attorneys and I found more experienced, talented, full time people, I was able to kinda take a backseat and focus on, you know, more of the business side.
• 18:37
  And, you know, once I started doing that and I kind of talked to other friends of mine that were getting high up in big law firms, I started to learn what the big law firms do that the family law firms aren't doing, which is really be champions to their attorneys and to really promote them and to really make them feel special because no one's making attorneys feel special. We feel terrible about ourselves all the time. So I just really saw that as the vital element of being a good employer and attracting top talent and keeping good folks, you know, with my firm. And I just think that's really critical because, you know, the attorneys that work for me now, they're the first one to undercut something that happened, and they get tremendous results in court. And I feel like, you know, applying Pingo up and down and kind of how they talk to you.
• 19:27
  But I think as an employer, if you have people that are really performing well, it's good to kind of focus on those elements and not just to them as a employee employer kind of management, but also in your marketing and business development because it just comes so naturally when you're when you're really proud of, you know, what they've achieved and who they are and what what they could bring to the table.
• 19:49
  Davina: Right. Right. So you had you're a mom of young children. Tell me about your children. What ages are they?
• 19:57
  Valerie: Yeah. Noah is almost one and a half, and Emma will be three in two weeks.
• 20:04
  Davina: And you were telling me that things, sort of shifted for you when you became a mom, and in terms of how you what you do in your business. Tell me a little bit about what changed for you.
• 20:16
  Valerie: Yeah. I think that, you know, one of the another reason why I started my firm back in 02/2017, I think, was my just knowledge that once I became a mom, I'd wanna be all about being a mom. And I wouldn't wanna have to be a full time litigator. That'd be too stressful. So it kind of I think it wasn't really a conscious thought, but I think it's just always something in the back of my head, like, this is part of my plan.
• 20:39
  So I when I decided I was ready to get pregnant, I had really my firmest pen to set up so I could, you know, have my daughter and not have to be in a stressful situation and get to really focus on her. And that was glorious. I just got to raise her for six months with a really great team behind me. But then I had two attorneys give me notice that they were starting their own firm when I was pregnant with my son. And so everything kind of, you know, burned down.
• 21:12
  And so I had to or chose to rebuild my firm, you know, during the first year of his life. And that was really challenging because, you know, I'm still kind of discovering who I am. You think you discovered who you are after your first kid, and then you just got the mum thing down. But really, I learned after the second that I was gonna figure it out all over again. So figuring out kind of who I am and what I need and then figuring out how the law firm should be built to kinda support me and make sure, like, my mission and values and everything is kinda elevated and a part of it.
• 21:48
  But while it was not the best timing in my mind as far as having to rebuild my firm, it did kind of force me to, you know, recruit a high performing team, which I wouldn't have spent all the time and energy doing had I not had this Phoenix reelection. Yeah.
• 22:06
  Davina: Yeah. I'm glad that you mentioned I'm glad that you brought that up because that is another fear that people have is I'm gonna hire these attorneys, and they are going to steal my clients and go open their own firm. What how did you get through that phase in your because it happens it happens, to a lot of people, and then sometimes it happens more than once. But how do you think you got through that phase emotionally, and what are some of the things that you did? And you talk about recruiting, you know, better talent.
• 22:40
  And then also, what kinds of thing do you think you're do there's anything that you're doing now that's different that might put in place something that it would be unlikely for that to happen again?
• 22:51
  Valerie: Yeah. I hate making any decision based fear. And if I'm making a decision based on fear, I make myself read, like, mindset books, or I just get irritated with myself, or I go to therapy. I don't I don't wanna make any decisions based on fear. Then I'm gonna blow it up anyway.
• 23:08
  So I try to just make decisions based on love or something excited to create. But, yeah, I I just had that feeling that this attorney I hired would eventually leave because I, you know, I kinda had to convince her to work for bit from the beginning. You know, people when people tell you they are, believe them. Right. So I I kind of was waiting for the shoe to drop, and that probably prevented me from really building out my firm because it kind of felt this unsettled feeling.
• 23:37
  And now, honestly, after rebuilding my firm and doubling, if not more, its size during my son's first year of life, I think I can do anything. Like, try me. Try your own firm. I'll be just fine. Like, I I know.
• 23:57
  I think for me, what's most important more than how, you know, seasons will change, you know, people will leave, people will stay, cases will go, cases will stay, everything's a moving target. But the one thing I can control is my own behavior and how I'm gonna feel about it. So I think just always making sure whatever I'm doing is with integrity and kindness and respect, and that that's all I can do. And if if someone decide that they're no longer for me, you know, I can just I can only hope through my own behavior that they'll mirror it and be respectful and kind in the manner they leave, and then I can wish them, you know, all the best because in life, not everyone's with you for ever. Right?
• 24:41
  Most people are with you first then, and, you know, I I don't really I have a really hard time being angry at people or having any kind of hate. I just kind of always wish them the best and, you know, like, you That
• 24:54
  Davina: is that is wonderful advice. And I I I always I often tell people, you know, if you plan on having a business for ten, twenty, thirty years, people are going to come and go. You have to expect people are gonna come and go for all kinds of reasons that may or may not have anything to do with you. And you'll still be there doing your thing. And, you know, so I love that you shared your story because I think that a lot of people, if you hadn't shared that with thought, oh, well, just built it and it went great for her from the beginning to the end.
• 25:21
  But you had to overcome this challenge, and you had to do it at a time when you were a mom of a toddler and an infant. So you're, you know, that is really, quite challenging. Tell me what kind of you talk about being the CEO of your business and sort of running the business side. Tell me some of the things that you think are really your job to do and some of the things that you think obviously, the hiring other lawyers, you're letting go of some of that lawyering and running the business. Tell me what are some of the things that you do?
• 26:01
  Because a lot of people think to themselves, well, what would I do if I were passing off all my work to people who work for me? Then what would I do? So tell me what are some of the things that fill your day that you think are important for you as the CEO to do.
• 26:15
  Valerie: Yeah. I think it's changed over time. When I had three attorneys working for me, and I was maybe a more green business owner, you know, I reviewed every single email that went out of my firm. I I saw absolutely everything. And, you know, for better or for worse, that's just how I ran the business for a really long time.
• 26:40
  And since I've I've grown it with kind of, you know, these seasoned high performing attorneys, I, you know, I still can see every email, because I still can help break. But I've tweaked our processes, so I don't. And I think building that level of trust to give them the the banquet to really practice in the manner that feels most authentic to them. But at the same time, as the business owner, everyone has to practice with my value. So I took time to draft, you know, policies and procedures related to how we communicate with clients, with the cadence, like, what's the tone?
• 27:22
  When do clients receive communications? How quick is you know, everything that I you know, there's certain things that you assume it's, you know, common knowledge and it never is. Right? And so it's really like writing the script of what's expected. So then anytime someone that works for me doesn't we don't have a meeting of their minds, then I know, oh, I need I need to draft a new SOP so they understand because no one can read my mind, not even my husband.
• 27:47
  You know? So that's kind of something that I think is really critical is not just drafting the policies and procedures because then no will read them, but really reiterating them and forcing them and making sure everyone's trained on them. Also, still lead our weekly meetings and go over every single case. And if anyone had any possible issue, we discuss it because I take a personal, I guess, I still take personal responsibility for making sure all of our clients have a, like, you know, five star premier experience. And if anything's going on, wanna hear about it.
• 28:20
  That's that's really critical to me, I guess. It's probably something maybe I'll loosen up about over time, but right now, I I they'll kinda go through that. I feel like I'm responsible for the brand of my firm and and how our footprint on the community and, you know, online. And I'm responsible for ensuring my attorneys have support staff that are effective, efficient, diligent that they can rely on. Also, know attorneys just are tend to burn out and overwork themselves.
• 28:50
  So I take personal responsibility to check-in with everyone that works for me to make sure they're doing okay and make sure they're taking vacations and see if they need more support, see if they might need an expert on a case that they haven't thought to use or if they can delegate something to a consultant or kind of help them maybe project manage when they have too many high conflict intent trials coming up, you know, because attorneys are kind of perfectionist sometimes in that regard.
• 29:16
  Davina: Yeah. Do you have a your billing model, do you have a billable hour requirement for your lawyers? Or and do you charge flat fees, or do you do billable hours? What do you what do you do? Because I I a lot of lawyers growing their firms struggle to hike to get people to understand billable hour requirements and follow billable hour requirements, especially, you know, if they're giving unlimited PTO or or vacation of any kind.
• 29:46
  Is that anything that you've ever had an issue with? Do you have a billable hour requirement? What does that look like for you?
• 29:51
  Valerie: Yeah. I like to meet people where they are. So I don't have some rule of federal family law where you have to bill x amount. If I think someone's the right fit for my firm and they have experience handling, you know, complex high stakes litigation as well as negotiating settlement, blah blah blah, you know, I feel like we're we have meeting of the mind. I wanna hire them.
• 30:13
  I'll ask them what what they wanna bill. Like, what what do you usually do? What are you comfortable with? And they'll kinda set their salary based on what they how they wanna perform. I don't wanna put a square peg in a round hole.
• 30:24
  Generally, it's a hundred and fifteen hours a month, I think, but I've I've done less. I've done more if they want more money, and they have a history of billing more hours. I also do monthly and quarterly bonuses where if they blew it out of the park and made way more than they thought, then I think they should make more money because the firm's gonna make more money.
• 30:43
  Davina: Right. Right. That's that's good to know because I think that's something that a lot of people struggle with if they've never worked in an environment where they're required to bill, and then they start a firm, and then they're like, okay. What do I how do I measure what I'm making from this attorney versus what I'm paying this attorney, and sort of setting that. So the billable hour, even if they're flat feeing, they're using that as a guide.
• 31:07
  It's good to hear what somebody else is doing with that. So if you were, you have gone after specifically, high conflict cases, high net worth cases. Is there a reason why you've sort of chosen that area?
• 31:25
  Valerie: Yeah. I think that wasn't really my plan, but I have just found that the most kind of sophisticated, high caliber attorneys that I've met or that I've interviewed with me, they enjoy solving complicated problems, and they don't wanna be bored. And so I wanna attract those kinds of cases to keep, you know, to keep to keep the legal team wanting to work for me. It's not that we don't, you know, do prenups and postnups and, you know, occasionally, we get an uncontested divorce. But I I do think that if you're not you're not prioritizing those kinds of cases, then you're probably not handling them in the expert manner they need.
• 32:13
  And I think those are the most difficult kind of cases to handle as as a family law firm, in my opinion. So I wanna make sure that, you know, the people I hire and what we do is our best to work specifically with those kind of cases, because then I know the rest will be, like, small potatoes.
• 32:27
  Davina: Yeah. Yeah. So you're networking in certain circles to attract those cases. Right? What what are what what are some of the things that you're doing to get visible among your ideal client?
• 32:41
  How do they find out about you?
• 32:44
  Valerie: I mean, I've been investing in SEO for a really long time. So most people just Google San Francisco Divorce Attorney, I think, and they land on my firm and they schedule a consult. But, yeah, honestly, since I had kids, I haven't done a lot of the networking stuff that I used to do, but I am kind of resurfacing. But it's really honestly just for my own enjoyment more than bringing in more business, but I'm sure that will be the result. I think that when you network from a position of what will make be fun for you, I think you do end up meeting people that, you know, like, interest you in your free business versus just going to stuff to try to get referrals because some of your stuff can be so boring and painful.
• 33:32
  So I think it's just figuring out what actually lights you up. Like, I'm speaking at a thing for the Bar Association on how to be a rainmaker, which is so cool. It's, like, four other women that are, like, killing it at their firms, and that's, like, exciting to me. You know? So it's just kind of that kind of stuff that I just, like, get excited to do in general.
• 33:49
  Davina: Yeah. Yeah. I find it interesting because a lot of first of all, there's the family lawyer. People say that you I had a mentor who said to me, people either love it or they hate it. Right?
• 33:58
  So it's it's a very divisive sort of practice area in terms of people practicing it. But I find it interesting because I, I know a lot of women lawyers, they're like, oh, I really don't want these high conflict cases. If somebody comes into me and says their ex is a narcissist, I immediately do not want them as a client. So I find it interesting for you that this is something that really lights you up and something that you really enjoy having for your law firm and that your team really enjoys from the aspect of the legal complexity of it. Right?
• 34:30
  Sounds like that you that's the where you guys are coming from is this idea that this is a this is a legally interesting case when we have high net worth, high conflict situation going on.
• 34:43
  Valerie: I think it's legally interesting, but it's also the amount of value you can provide someone from a human level is staggering. I guess I completely disagree with this whole belief that when a when a client complains about their spouse being they're kind of full of it. Like, I kind of I hear it all the time, and I just I feel completely the opposite. It's not to say that we haven't had calls with people that have unrealistic expectations and, you know, are complaining about their spouse's behavior and labeling it in a manner that's inappropriate. But I I do really believe that, you know, some of the situations that make me feel the most, that make me feel like I'm gonna help this person relate to when there's an imbalance in power dynamics in a relationship where, you know, whether it's the man or the woman, one person is really feeling unsafe and taken advantage of.
• 35:39
  And often mental health issues are at play, and often it is a very difficult personality. And I think that in order to have a soft spot in your heart for these kind of cases, you likely need some kind of back person story. Right? But I think if you have one, then you can be so powerful and really have such a dramatic impact, you know, on a client's life that that they'll never forget.
• 36:02
  Davina: Yeah. Yeah. And I think really the takeaway from this is getting really understanding what you want to do and how you wanna serve and how you wanna show up and help your clients and what is gonna be create the most impact for you in your life in in through your law firm, you know, and choosing that. And it sounds like you've really picked something that you are really passionate about and really love. So you're gonna be on this panel talking about rainmaking.
• 36:28
  Give us a couple of rainmaking tips.
• 36:31
  Valerie: Okay. I think, to me personally, I think it's important to just be your authentic self, as far as how you show up in social media or your newsletter or how you communicate with other, you know, lawyers or referral sources. I think that's really important. The second one is I think it depends on the size of your business. I really hate to see, you know, solo practitioners.
• 36:58
  Maybe they're making, like, $200, and they're investing in, like, crazy expensive Google Ads and SEO and that kind of stuff. I I think you have to do the marketing you could afford. And in until you really have a business with associates generating revenue for you, I I think it's better to do, like, kind of boots on the ground marketing that's not gonna, you know, make you poor and go under. I think another thing that's important for brain making is being really strategic and thinking about who your, you know, target client is. There's there's just so many things you can do.
• 37:34
  Right? You have podcasts. You could do YouTube series. You could do webinars. You know?
• 37:40
  But I think if you make it simple and you try to find what you can do to attract your, you know, your favorite kind of clients, I think that's usually the best. And also, look into what the ROI is on on what you're doing. A lot of people do webinars, and they get they get knocked and back. It's just busy work. Yeah.
• 37:56
  Yeah. So You know, I I definitely something to think about. And I think the last thing is just look at try to find firm throughout the country that are killing it and doing five times better than you are. And I think that, at least, that's always given me hope and also kind of excitement about what it could be doing and helped me not be I don't know. Not have a ceiling to my dreams, you know, seeing for me, I think other women that are doing really cool, big things with their law practices.
• 38:29
  Because I think winning your own law firm is one of the, I think, few opportunities for lawyer women to really get to practice law on their own terms, whether you wanna practice or not, and really create a customized experience, not just for your clients and not just for your employees, but more for for yourself.
• 38:51
  Davina: Right. Right. I think it's a you know, for so long, women haven't had opportunities. They've had to work up a ladder in a world that doesn't serve them. And I think we're seeing a shift in that, especially since the pandemic.
• 39:03
  A lot more women are graduating from law school and starting their own businesses right out of law school or shortly out of law school. And they're creating the kinds of businesses that they want to be a part of and want to see. And it sounds like that's something you've done. So I really appreciate you sharing your story with us. I know a lot of people are gonna be inspired by hearing it.
• 39:22
  Tell us how we can connect with you if we want to, reach out to you.
• 39:27
  Valerie: Yep. You can find me on LinkedIn, Valerie Central. You can go to my website, I don't know, www.centralfamilylaw.com. You can find me there. You could email, I guess, admin@VentoFamilyLaw.com, and my office manager will make sure we respond to you.
• 39:47
  Yeah. But, yeah, it's it's really been a pleasure speaking on your podcast, Sabina. I always love working out what you're doing on social media and everything else to to grow your business and everything you have to say to empower, you know, other women lawyers to really take control of their lives and build out their own firm.
• 40:05
  Davina: Thank you. I was really inspired by your story, so I'm so glad you decided to come on and share it with us. And, this will be coming out in the next couple of weeks, so listen for it. Everybody's gonna wanna love to hear hear this story.
• 40:17
  Valerie: Perfect. Thank you.
• 40:18
  Intro: If you're ready to create more of what you truly desire in your business and your life, then you'll want to visit us at wealthywomanlawyer.com to learn more about how we help our clients create wealth generating law firms with ease.