Latest / The Science Diplomat / S1E8: Vincenzo Lorusso on Africa-Europe science diplomacy, innovation and the path from research to market

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S1E8: Vincenzo Lorusso on Africa-Europe science diplomacy, innovation and the path from research to market · The Science Diplomat

0:02
SPEAKER_00: Science diplomacy is often
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SPEAKER_00: described as a cooperation
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SPEAKER_00: between countries, but what
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SPEAKER_00: does that cooperation actually look
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SPEAKER_00: like when two continents are trying
0:12
SPEAKER_00: to build something together with
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SPEAKER_00: different institutions, different
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SPEAKER_00: resources, different priorities, and
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SPEAKER_00: different histories?
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SPEAKER_00: Today we're joined by someone who's
0:20
SPEAKER_00: been working on exactly that
0:22
SPEAKER_00: question.
0:23
SPEAKER_00: Vincenzo is a policy officer at
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SPEAKER_00: the European Commission's
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SPEAKER_00: Directorate-General for Research
0:28
SPEAKER_00: and Innovation and the EU Co-Chair
0:30
SPEAKER_00: of the AU-EU Innovation
0:32
SPEAKER_00: Agenda Working Group.
0:33
SPEAKER_00: So we're not just here to talk about
0:35
SPEAKER_00: the Innovation Agenda itself.
0:36
SPEAKER_00: We're here to about what building
0:38
SPEAKER_00: and implementing it can actually
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SPEAKER_00: tell us about science diplomacy
0:41
SPEAKER_00: between Africa and Europe more
0:43
SPEAKER_00: broadly.
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SPEAKER_00: Vincenzo, welcome to The Science
0:46
SPEAKER_00: Diplomat.
0:48
SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much, Amna.
0:49
SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Bupe.
0:50
SPEAKER_02: Thank you, John.
0:51
SPEAKER_02: Good afternoon.
0:51
SPEAKER_02: Good morning,
0:52
SPEAKER_02: everybody.
0:52
SPEAKER_02: Thank you for having us.
0:53
SPEAKER_02: Thank for having me.
0:55
SPEAKER_01: Great to see you.
0:56
SPEAKER_01: So you've moved through veterinarian
0:58
SPEAKER_01: medicine, public health,
1:00
SPEAKER_01: the pharmaceutical industry,
1:02
SPEAKER_01: African development and now European
1:04
SPEAKER_01: policy-making.
1:05
SPEAKER_01: And how did you end up at this
1:07
SPEAKER_01: intersection of science and
1:08
SPEAKER_01: diplomacy?
1:10
SPEAKER_02: I've done for about 15 years
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SPEAKER_02: science diplomacy across different
1:14
SPEAKER_02: sectors, from academia to
1:17
SPEAKER_02: private sector, indeed,
1:18
SPEAKER_02: pharmaceutical and biotech industry.
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SPEAKER_02: And I felt I wanted
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SPEAKER_02: to really bring in my little
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SPEAKER_02: droplet of contribution
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SPEAKER_02: within an ocean and really
1:29
SPEAKER_02: bring the experiences from
1:30
SPEAKER_02: across these sectors into the
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SPEAKER_02: institutional space and really
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SPEAKER_02: work at the EU, at the
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SPEAKER_02: interface with the African Union and
1:38
SPEAKER_02: EU and AU member states.
1:39
SPEAKER_02: So that was the
1:42
SPEAKER_02: real rationale that led me to that.
1:43
SPEAKER_02: So while I was working in private
1:44
SPEAKER_02: sector and academia, for example,
1:46
SPEAKER_02: and working a lot in the so-called
1:47
SPEAKER_02: research for development in
1:51
SPEAKER_02: public health and rural development,
1:54
SPEAKER_02: I really sometimes found myself
1:56
SPEAKER_02: questioning why certain
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SPEAKER_02: diseases or certain indications
2:00
SPEAKER_02: were not more funded than others.
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SPEAKER_02: And I really wanted to bring that
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SPEAKER_02: experience into use.
2:05
SPEAKER_02: I've also wanted to highlight the
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SPEAKER_02: diplomatic aspect of it, the
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SPEAKER_02: people-to-people diplomacy that you
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SPEAKER_02: do at all levels, right?
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SPEAKER_02: When you're working in research,
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SPEAKER_02: collaborative research projects
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SPEAKER_02: between Africa and Europe,
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SPEAKER_02: or regardless of any
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SPEAKER_02: international, multi-country level,
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SPEAKER_02: you realize that there's indeed,
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SPEAKER_02: there's a lot of intercultural,
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SPEAKER_02: international and multicultural
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SPEAKER_02: negotiation that needs to
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SPEAKER_02: be occurring throughout all
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SPEAKER_02: the different steps and phases of
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SPEAKER_02: projects.
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SPEAKER_02: So I really wanted to do
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SPEAKER_02: this and put this into a more
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SPEAKER_02: institutionalized way into
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SPEAKER_02: use, and that's actually what led me
2:42
SPEAKER_02: to then apply to European
2:43
SPEAKER_02: Commission.
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SPEAKER_02: And I've been very lucky
2:45
SPEAKER_02: to be working at the DG Research
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SPEAKER_02: and Innovation in the international
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SPEAKER_02: cooperation unit that really
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SPEAKER_02: handles the diplomatic
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SPEAKER_02: part, the international corporation
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SPEAKER_02: part, very much merging
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SPEAKER_02: it with the research and innovation
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SPEAKER_02: aspects and therefore public
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SPEAKER_02: health, rural development, food
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SPEAKER_02: security are all essential
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SPEAKER_02: components of the Africa-Europe
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SPEAKER_02: partnership on research and
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SPEAKER_02: innovation.
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SPEAKER_00: I was wondering, was there maybe
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SPEAKER_00: a particular moment where
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SPEAKER_00: you thought that I'm
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SPEAKER_00: doing science diplomacy or was it
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SPEAKER_00: more of a gradual progression?
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SPEAKER_02: Yeah, thank you Amna for that.
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SPEAKER_02: I think in the private sector, we
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SPEAKER_02: do not hear, at least in my
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SPEAKER_02: limited human experience, we
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SPEAKER_02: don't hear enough stories of science
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SPEAKER_02: diplomacy coming from the private
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SPEAKER_02: sector.
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SPEAKER_02: And in fact, for me, this
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SPEAKER_02: was a wide
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SPEAKER_02: eye-opening experience.
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SPEAKER_02: When I was in the pharma biotech
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SPEAKER_02: industry, I had the opportunity to
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SPEAKER_02: work and cooperate with different
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SPEAKER_02: geographies of the world and
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SPEAKER_02: therefore different cultures with
3:46
SPEAKER_02: that, but particularly with
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SPEAKER_02: Japan, the U.S., South Africa, and
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SPEAKER_02: of course, I was based in Paris, I
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SPEAKER_02: was based in France, operating from
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SPEAKER_02: continental Europe.
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SPEAKER_02: So for example,
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SPEAKER_02: the diversity,
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SPEAKER_02: or perhaps should I say, the stark
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SPEAKER_02: difference that negotiations with
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SPEAKER_02: business and R&D, research
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SPEAKER_02: and innovation focused negotiations
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SPEAKER_02: between France and the U.S.
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SPEAKER_02: compared to those between France
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SPEAKER_02: and Japan really led me to
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SPEAKER_02: think that in all this complexity,
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SPEAKER_02: what I personally enjoyed the most,
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SPEAKER_02: and I felt I was sort of
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SPEAKER_02: thriving with, was indeed human
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SPEAKER_02: beings and people.
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SPEAKER_02: So yes, there's a lot of science
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SPEAKER_02: diplomacy that is done in the
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SPEAKER_02: private sector and maybe one part,
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SPEAKER_02: one of the reasons for which this
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SPEAKER_02: doesn't necessarily come to light
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SPEAKER_02: all the time, is because indeed when
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SPEAKER_02: we talk about research innovation, a
4:35
SPEAKER_02: lot of these collaborations and
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SPEAKER_02: partnerships are under confidential
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SPEAKER_02: agreements, and therefore indeed
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SPEAKER_02: because of these aspects,
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SPEAKER_02: secrecy needs to be kept of course.
4:45
SPEAKER_00: I wanted to ask you, because you've
4:47
SPEAKER_00: been able to see and work
4:49
SPEAKER_00: in this kind of intersection, what
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SPEAKER_00: do you think science diplomacy
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SPEAKER_00: has meant
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SPEAKER_00: for you?
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SPEAKER_02: I think science diplomacy
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SPEAKER_02: is really
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SPEAKER_02: the bridge across
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SPEAKER_02: states and countries,
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SPEAKER_02: and of course the recent crises
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SPEAKER_02: within Europe, for
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SPEAKER_02: example, have also opened up
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SPEAKER_02: our eyes on the importance
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SPEAKER_02: on science diplomacy being a tool
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SPEAKER_02: also to
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SPEAKER_02: safeguard and therefore
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SPEAKER_02: enhance the security of certain
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SPEAKER_02: countries in a world where, indeed,
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SPEAKER_02: competitiveness and competition
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SPEAKER_02: amongst certain parts of the world
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SPEAKER_02: is certainly something that we need
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SPEAKER_02: to acknowledge.
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SPEAKER_02: But I would say that to me,
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SPEAKER_02: science diplomacy, the immediate
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SPEAKER_02: identification of it is really
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SPEAKER_02: the one of a bridging tool.
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SPEAKER_02: And in fact, if I may,
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SPEAKER_02: ultimately, it translates into
5:39
SPEAKER_02: diplomacy, should I
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SPEAKER_02: say too cool, but I like to say too
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SPEAKER_02: large, because it's indeed bigger
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SPEAKER_02: than the science and is as broad
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SPEAKER_02: as diplomatic affairs could be.
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SPEAKER_02: So while of course, and
5:50
SPEAKER_02: you know the three notions of
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SPEAKER_02: science diplomacy, of course.
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SPEAKER_02: It is extremely important also to
5:55
SPEAKER_02: keep in mind that science diplomacy
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SPEAKER_02: is broadly an opportunity,
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SPEAKER_02: despite the divergent views
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SPEAKER_02: across foreign affairs policies
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SPEAKER_02: of countries, also to
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SPEAKER_02: ultimately sit around the same
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SPEAKER_02: table and find some level playing
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SPEAKER_02: field and some common ground to
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SPEAKER_02: really do science together.
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SPEAKER_02: Although of course science diplomacy
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SPEAKER_02: also as a diplomatic
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SPEAKER_02: approach entails
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SPEAKER_02: negotiations, which of course are
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SPEAKER_02: indeed an important exercise not
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SPEAKER_02: to forget that.
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SPEAKER_01: It feels like this relationship is
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SPEAKER_01: changing.
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SPEAKER_01: Are we moving past the
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SPEAKER_01: older model of research cooperation
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SPEAKER_01: into something more strategic?
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SPEAKER_02: Yes I would say so and then of
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SPEAKER_02: course this also depends
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SPEAKER_02: on the technologies we're
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SPEAKER_02: referring to.
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SPEAKER_02: Emerging technologies are
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SPEAKER_02: certainly of critical importance
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SPEAKER_02: for competitiveness and
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SPEAKER_02: of course dual use research
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SPEAKER_02: innovation in research innovation
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SPEAKER_02: that is done for both civil use but
6:52
SPEAKER_02: also for defense purposes has
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SPEAKER_02: a lot at stake compared to research
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SPEAKER_02: that is done only for civil use.
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SPEAKER_02: The cooperation and research
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SPEAKER_02: innovation is of course as strategic
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SPEAKER_02: as it needs to be.
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SPEAKER_02: When it comes to the cooperation
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SPEAKER_02: between Europe and Africa, however,
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SPEAKER_02: and I'm now referring particularly
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SPEAKER_02: to the EU global approach to
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SPEAKER_02: research innovation, as
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SPEAKER_02: a communication that was adopted by
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SPEAKER_02: the EU Council in May 2021.
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SPEAKER_02: Particular communication foresees
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SPEAKER_02: special openness from the EU
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SPEAKER_02: side vis-à-vis African countries
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SPEAKER_02: that wish to thrive as knowledge
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SPEAKER_02: based economies.
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SPEAKER_02: That's an opportunity for us as
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SPEAKER_02: European Union and this is also why
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SPEAKER_02: we keep using the expression of
7:31
SPEAKER_02: positive agenda while referring to
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SPEAKER_02: the African Union, European Union
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SPEAKER_02: agenda.
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SPEAKER_02: It's really an opportunity for us to
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SPEAKER_02: do together in a
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SPEAKER_02: as open as possible, and of course,
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SPEAKER_02: as secure as it needs, safe
7:44
SPEAKER_02: as it needs to be way,
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SPEAKER_02: really identify the
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SPEAKER_02: common targets and then working
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SPEAKER_02: together to make these common
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SPEAKER_02: targets reality.
7:51
SPEAKER_02: And in this spirit, this is how this
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SPEAKER_02: AU-EU Innovation Agenda was
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SPEAKER_02: conceived and is now being
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SPEAKER_02: implemented.
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SPEAKER_02: So really, the times
7:59
SPEAKER_02: are as strategic as
8:00
SPEAKER_02: needed, referring to your question.
8:02
SPEAKER_02: And of course, we need to make
8:04
SPEAKER_02: sure as European Union and
8:06
SPEAKER_02: in each and every geography of the
8:07
SPEAKER_02: world, of course cooperates with
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SPEAKER_02: third parties in a way that indeed
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SPEAKER_02: every cooperation ideally should
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SPEAKER_02: lead into win-win approaches.
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SPEAKER_02: Of course, how to get that is not
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SPEAKER_02: necessarily the straightforward
8:18
SPEAKER_02: answer, but that's essentially the
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SPEAKER_02: goal.
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SPEAKER_01: So here are the harder questions.
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SPEAKER_01: What can science diplomacy actually
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SPEAKER_01: accomplish between Africa and Europe
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SPEAKER_01: that ordinary diplomacy
8:28
SPEAKER_01: can't?
8:29
SPEAKER_01: And on the flip side, where does
8:31
SPEAKER_01: it hit its limits?
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SPEAKER_01: What do we sometimes ask science
8:34
SPEAKER_01: diplomacy to do that it just isn't
8:36
SPEAKER_01: built for?
8:38
SPEAKER_02: Yes, thank you John for these harder
8:40
SPEAKER_02: questions.
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SPEAKER_02: I would say I will try
8:42
SPEAKER_02: and give it a practical answer.
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SPEAKER_02: We've seen really, you know,
8:45
SPEAKER_02: over my past five years
8:47
SPEAKER_02: of working this space
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SPEAKER_02: institutionally, we've really seen
8:50
SPEAKER_02: an increase in interest
8:52
SPEAKER_02: or acknowledgement, should I say,
8:54
SPEAKER_02: or recognition of the importance of
8:56
SPEAKER_02: science, technology and innovation
8:58
SPEAKER_02: in the overall Africa-Europe
8:59
SPEAKER_02: partnership, to the point that
9:01
SPEAKER_02: indeed, as the African
9:03
SPEAKER_02: Union-European Union summits
9:05
SPEAKER_02: have unfolded, I'm referring to
9:07
SPEAKER_02: the sixth one, but then also to the
9:09
SPEAKER_02: most recent one, the seventh one in
9:11
SPEAKER_02: Angola, in Luanda.
9:13
SPEAKER_02: We've really seen diplomatic
9:14
SPEAKER_02: services and trying to
9:16
SPEAKER_02: answer your question from that
9:17
SPEAKER_02: viewpoint, diplomatic services are
9:19
SPEAKER_02: now looking with increasing
9:21
SPEAKER_02: interest at what we're
9:23
SPEAKER_02: doing in the cooperation of science,
9:24
SPEAKER_02: technology and innovation.
9:25
SPEAKER_02: Really science, what can science,
9:27
SPEAKER_02: technology, and innovation do that
9:28
SPEAKER_02: diplomacy alone cannot do it?
9:30
SPEAKER_02: It's actually realizing that by
9:32
SPEAKER_02: cooperating on science and
9:34
SPEAKER_02: technology innovation, we're really
9:36
SPEAKER_02: bringing in a lot of
9:37
SPEAKER_02: positive content and
9:40
SPEAKER_02: flash, if I could say so, to
9:42
SPEAKER_02: this cooperation and realizing how
9:44
SPEAKER_02: much of an essential component
9:46
SPEAKER_02: of the overall Africa-Europe
9:47
SPEAKER_02: partnership science and technology
9:50
SPEAKER_02: are.
9:51
SPEAKER_02: I usually like to say that this is
9:53
SPEAKER_02: for essentially three reasons.
9:55
SPEAKER_02: The fact that, indeed, research
9:56
SPEAKER_02: innovation can allow us today
9:58
SPEAKER_02: to tackle shared
10:00
SPEAKER_02: challenges and common problems in
10:02
SPEAKER_02: a way that indeed are affecting both
10:04
SPEAKER_02: our geographies.
10:06
SPEAKER_02: The second element is the fact that
10:07
SPEAKER_02: research innovation, for us to be
10:09
SPEAKER_02: able to address these elements,
10:11
SPEAKER_02: these challenges, need to be
10:12
SPEAKER_02: collaborative by nature.
10:14
SPEAKER_02: And therefore, really, there's an
10:16
SPEAKER_02: intrinsic element of
10:17
SPEAKER_02: science technology innovation that
10:20
SPEAKER_02: uniquely forces us,
10:21
SPEAKER_02: I'm provocatively using this verb,
10:23
SPEAKER_02: to collaborate with each other.
10:25
SPEAKER_02: And the third element is the fact of
10:27
SPEAKER_02: the forward-looking
10:29
SPEAKER_02: approach.
10:30
SPEAKER_02: Research innovation really
10:31
SPEAKER_02: needs a sustainable.
10:32
SPEAKER_02: And forward-looking inside because
10:34
SPEAKER_02: indeed they usually do not lead to
10:35
SPEAKER_02: results overnight and therefore
10:38
SPEAKER_02: they require a sustained momentum
10:40
SPEAKER_02: and therefore the political
10:41
SPEAKER_02: willingness that comes to that.
10:44
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for that.
10:46
SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about the
10:48
SPEAKER_00: AU-EU Innovation Agenda.
10:50
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's three years old now.
10:51
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to just walk through
10:53
SPEAKER_00: the agenda line by line, but I'm
10:54
SPEAKER_00: more interested in what
10:55
SPEAKER_00: implementing it has actually taught
10:57
SPEAKER_00: you about what makes this
11:00
SPEAKER_00: scientific cooperation work and
11:02
SPEAKER_00: what kind of can get in the way.
11:06
SPEAKER_02: Yes, thank you.
11:07
SPEAKER_02: It's a bunch of difficult questions
11:09
SPEAKER_02: you're serving me.
11:10
SPEAKER_02: That's okay.
11:10
SPEAKER_02: I appreciate that.
11:12
SPEAKER_02: The AU-EU Innovation Agenda, the
11:13
SPEAKER_02: expanding stakeholder community that
11:15
SPEAKER_02: is contributing to this
11:16
SPEAKER_02: collaborative implementation, is
11:18
SPEAKER_02: really showing us that when
11:21
SPEAKER_02: implementation is as hopefully
11:23
SPEAKER_02: vibrant and dynamic as it could be,
11:25
SPEAKER_02: or as you say it should be,
11:27
SPEAKER_02: well, this creates a
11:29
SPEAKER_02: sustained political momentum about
11:31
SPEAKER_02: it in a way that indeed,
11:34
SPEAKER_02: although the policy is now being
11:35
SPEAKER_02: implemented, well, it still remains
11:38
SPEAKER_02: politically remarkable, if I could
11:39
SPEAKER_02: say so.
11:40
SPEAKER_02: So if there's anything that
11:41
SPEAKER_02: this has taught me is the fact that,
11:43
SPEAKER_02: you know, it's always easy to
11:45
SPEAKER_02: get under the spotlight or easier to
11:47
SPEAKER_02: get under the spotlight when the
11:48
SPEAKER_02: policy or new initiative is being
11:49
SPEAKER_02: launched.
11:50
SPEAKER_02: Right?
11:50
SPEAKER_02: And
11:51
SPEAKER_02: while initiatives or policies are
11:53
SPEAKER_02: being under implementation, of
11:55
SPEAKER_02: course, the implementing
11:57
SPEAKER_02: bodies and institutions and myself
11:59
SPEAKER_02: working in the AU-EU
12:01
SPEAKER_02: Innovation Agenda Working Group
12:03
SPEAKER_02: being responsible for the
12:04
SPEAKER_02: coordination of the ongoing
12:06
SPEAKER_02: implementation, you realize that
12:07
SPEAKER_02: indeed you always need a little
12:09
SPEAKER_02: bit of extra effort in making sure
12:11
SPEAKER_02: there's always political awareness
12:14
SPEAKER_02: of the implementation now
12:15
SPEAKER_02: still happening.
12:16
SPEAKER_02: Because indeed it's a 10-year policy
12:18
SPEAKER_02: and it takes time for this to lead
12:19
SPEAKER_02: to results.
12:21
SPEAKER_02: So doing this in a way that is as
12:22
SPEAKER_02: collective, as concerted as
12:24
SPEAKER_02: possible with the citizens,
12:26
SPEAKER_02: the innovators, the entrepreneurs on
12:28
SPEAKER_02: the ground, the universities, the
12:29
SPEAKER_02: research and innovation institutions,
12:31
SPEAKER_02: of course, with the civil society
12:33
SPEAKER_02: in a way that institutions are
12:34
SPEAKER_02: really working hand in hand with
12:36
SPEAKER_02: all these stakeholder organizations,
12:39
SPEAKER_02: makes us realize that indeed
12:40
SPEAKER_02: there's an echo coming from the
12:42
SPEAKER_02: ground about the actual significance
12:44
SPEAKER_02: of this agenda and that this agenda
12:46
SPEAKER_02: is something that is making some
12:48
SPEAKER_02: noise if not some buzz about
12:50
SPEAKER_02: it.
12:51
SPEAKER_02: One of the challenges in this space
12:52
SPEAKER_02: is of course ensuring that
12:55
SPEAKER_02: while the community and the
12:56
SPEAKER_02: stakeholder community not just being
12:58
SPEAKER_02: aware about it but also contributing
13:00
SPEAKER_02: to this collective implementation
13:02
SPEAKER_02: of it, there are also the
13:03
SPEAKER_02: instruments that facilitate that
13:05
SPEAKER_02: process.
13:06
SPEAKER_02: And of course by instruments I mean
13:07
SPEAKER_02: the funding, I mean the program,
13:09
SPEAKER_02: the projects, and therefore, I'm now
13:11
SPEAKER_02: referring to a more top-down
13:13
SPEAKER_02: kind of way of acting, so basically
13:15
SPEAKER_02: that the institutions are
13:17
SPEAKER_02: walking the talk and deploying
13:20
SPEAKER_02: what's needed for this agenda to
13:22
SPEAKER_02: become reality.
13:23
SPEAKER_02: Of course institutions across the
13:24
SPEAKER_02: different sectors, because we need
13:26
SPEAKER_02: as much the
13:28
SPEAKER_02: policymakers in
13:31
SPEAKER_02: the governments, the member states, the commissions,
13:32
SPEAKER_02: AU and EU level, to
13:34
SPEAKER_02: do their part.
13:35
SPEAKER_02: But we also need other entities
13:37
SPEAKER_02: involved in the turning research
13:39
SPEAKER_02: innovation into products,
13:41
SPEAKER_02: services and jobs, which is actually
13:43
SPEAKER_02: the mandate of the AU-EU Inovation
13:45
SPEAKER_02: Agenda.
13:45
SPEAKER_02: And therefore, my call
13:47
SPEAKER_02: to engaging more
13:49
SPEAKER_02: and more private sector and
13:50
SPEAKER_02: therefore those listening to us
13:53
SPEAKER_02: engaging from the private sector
13:54
SPEAKER_02: space, in addition to educational
13:56
SPEAKER_02: institutions, universities and so on
13:57
SPEAKER_02: and so forth, please do reach out,
14:00
SPEAKER_02: do consider the opportunity of
14:01
SPEAKER_02: engaging in the implementation of
14:03
SPEAKER_02: the AU-EU Innovation Agenda.
14:05
SPEAKER_02: Basically, we're not there yet to
14:07
SPEAKER_02: making sure everybody is involved,
14:08
SPEAKER_02: of course, and it's
14:10
SPEAKER_02: never enough.
14:11
SPEAKER_02: Always a little always helps,
14:13
SPEAKER_02: and the effort that is being put out
14:15
SPEAKER_02: there is never enough, we can always
14:16
SPEAKER_02: do more.
14:18
SPEAKER_01: So the portfolio still leans on the
14:20
SPEAKER_01: historical strengths of this
14:21
SPEAKER_01: relationship.
14:22
SPEAKER_01: What does it take to move beyond
14:23
SPEAKER_01: those established lanes into newer
14:25
SPEAKER_01: territory?
14:28
SPEAKER_02: Thanks, John.
14:29
SPEAKER_02: I think this fits and
14:30
SPEAKER_02: links very nicely, coincidentally,
14:32
SPEAKER_02: what I just concluded with.
14:34
SPEAKER_02: I thing, indeed making sure that we
14:36
SPEAKER_02: get those who are responsible for
14:38
SPEAKER_02: delivering the products, the
14:39
SPEAKER_02: services, the solutions
14:41
SPEAKER_02: to the marketplace and to citizens
14:43
SPEAKER_02: and consumers and users.
14:45
SPEAKER_02: They are as engaged as we are.
14:47
SPEAKER_02: And therefore I think the role of
14:48
SPEAKER_02: private sector is essential.
14:50
SPEAKER_02: And of course that there
14:51
SPEAKER_02: is private sector already engaged in
14:53
SPEAKER_02: this implementation.
14:54
SPEAKER_02: I'm referring to the hundreds
14:56
SPEAKER_02: of startups, SMEs,
14:58
SPEAKER_02: that are already part of this
14:59
SPEAKER_02: conversation and this co-doing,
15:01
SPEAKER_02: because indeed they are also
15:03
SPEAKER_02: benefiting from the opportunities of
15:05
SPEAKER_02: de-risking their innovative
15:07
SPEAKER_02: solutions or enhancing their
15:09
SPEAKER_02: footprints within Africa, within
15:10
SPEAKER_02: Europe, or also from Africa to
15:11
SPEAKER_02: Europe and from Europe to Africa.
15:13
SPEAKER_02: But we can do more, for example,
15:15
SPEAKER_02: to have more corporations engaged in
15:17
SPEAKER_02: this, not just conversation, but in
15:18
SPEAKER_02: this co-doing.
15:20
SPEAKER_02: So I would say private sector
15:22
SPEAKER_02: engagement is certainly key
15:24
SPEAKER_02: for making sure this translation
15:26
SPEAKER_02: ultimately occurs.
15:28
SPEAKER_01: So let's get concrete.
15:30
SPEAKER_01: The next Innovation Fair is in
15:32
SPEAKER_01: Bari, Italy this November.
15:34
SPEAKER_01: What are you hoping to accomplish
15:35
SPEAKER_01: there that hasn't already happened
15:37
SPEAKER_01: through the more traditional
15:38
SPEAKER_01: research purpose?
15:41
SPEAKER_02: Thanks a lot, John.
15:42
SPEAKER_02: So what we're aiming for, and that's
15:44
SPEAKER_02: also why we adopted for the
15:46
SPEAKER_02: second time, because we started this
15:47
SPEAKER_02: with Innovation Fair of last year,
15:50
SPEAKER_02: two key political hashtags,
15:52
SPEAKER_02: making it possible, and
15:54
SPEAKER_02: not a regular event.
15:55
SPEAKER_02: Please allow me to emphasize the not
15:57
SPEAKER_02: a regular event to answer your
15:58
SPEAKER_02: question.
15:59
SPEAKER_02: So what are we aiming to
16:00
SPEAKER_02: achieve that has not been achieved
16:02
SPEAKER_02: yet, is really to make sure that
16:04
SPEAKER_02: while we bring on stage as
16:06
SPEAKER_02: many innovative solutions
16:08
SPEAKER_02: in the space of food and nutrition
16:10
SPEAKER_02: security and sustainable
16:12
SPEAKER_02: agriculture, because that's the
16:14
SPEAKER_02: overall thematic area for this
16:15
SPEAKER_02: year's edition, solutions that have
16:17
SPEAKER_02: been generated as part of
16:19
SPEAKER_02: research and innovation projects,
16:20
SPEAKER_02: but also as part of innovative
16:23
SPEAKER_02: and transformative startups and
16:24
SPEAKER_02: SMEs.
16:25
SPEAKER_02: Well, while we try and do so, we
16:27
SPEAKER_02: make sure that they'll be able to
16:28
SPEAKER_02: pitch and really showcase
16:30
SPEAKER_02: their solutions to a pertinent
16:32
SPEAKER_02: audience of investors.
16:34
SPEAKER_02: Investors coming from across
16:35
SPEAKER_02: sectors, from
16:37
SPEAKER_02: public to private, VC, philanthropy,
16:40
SPEAKER_02: investors that are indeed
16:41
SPEAKER_02: strategically engaged in
16:44
SPEAKER_02: investing in the research
16:45
SPEAKER_02: innovation and in translation
16:47
SPEAKER_02: of research innovation into product
16:49
SPEAKER_02: services and tools in the
16:51
SPEAKER_02: area of food and nutrition security
16:52
SPEAKER_02: and sustainable agriculture,
16:54
SPEAKER_02: geographically speaking within
16:55
SPEAKER_02: Africa, Europe, and this time
16:57
SPEAKER_02: also in the Mediterranean region.
16:59
SPEAKER_02: That's why we call it the AU-EU-Med
17:02
SPEAKER_02: Innovation Fair.
17:03
SPEAKER_02: So in a nutshell, to make a
17:05
SPEAKER_02: difference, we're trying to, while
17:07
SPEAKER_02: we bring the most transformative,
17:09
SPEAKER_02: or allow me to say the most
17:11
SPEAKER_02: innovative solutions,
17:13
SPEAKER_02: we're also trying to bring that
17:14
SPEAKER_02: effort in bringing the most
17:16
SPEAKER_02: pertinent and the most
17:18
SPEAKER_02: hungry for investment investors
17:20
SPEAKER_02: as well.
17:22
SPEAKER_01: You said before that you don't want
17:23
SPEAKER_01: to measure success by how many
17:24
SPEAKER_01: people show up.
17:25
SPEAKER_01: You want to know
17:26
SPEAKER_01: what happens to the companies and
17:27
SPEAKER_01: technologies afterward.
17:29
SPEAKER_01: So what does success look like
17:31
SPEAKER_01: six months after the Innovation
17:32
SPEAKER_01: Fair?
17:35
SPEAKER_02: Thanks a lot.
17:36
SPEAKER_02: Allow me to maybe specify
17:38
SPEAKER_02: that, maybe just adjust
17:40
SPEAKER_02: to what you said to sort of quote
17:42
SPEAKER_02: me.
17:42
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you don't, I think that
17:43
SPEAKER_02: we shouldn't just be measuring
17:45
SPEAKER_02: success based on the numbers of
17:46
SPEAKER_02: people we're able to bring together
17:47
SPEAKER_02: in a particular event, which is
17:49
SPEAKER_02: still an important indicator.
17:50
SPEAKER_02: Of course, now we've done this for a
17:52
SPEAKER_02: number of times and this would be
17:55
SPEAKER_02: the second AU-EU-Med Innovation
17:57
SPEAKER_02: Fair, but the fifth Innovation
17:59
SPEAKER_02: Fair that we've been
18:01
SPEAKER_02: organizing over the past five
18:03
SPEAKER_02: years.
18:04
SPEAKER_02: It's extremely important what
18:05
SPEAKER_02: you asked for.
18:06
SPEAKER_02: And this is also part of our mandate
18:08
SPEAKER_02: to monitor, evaluate and learn
18:09
SPEAKER_02: from what we do.
18:10
SPEAKER_02: And so one way to establish success,
18:12
SPEAKER_02: for example, within six months, as
18:15
SPEAKER_02: you asked for John, will be
18:17
SPEAKER_02: for example assessing the number of
18:19
SPEAKER_02: potential de-risking deals,
18:20
SPEAKER_02: research innovation de-risking deals
18:22
SPEAKER_02: that were signed or
18:24
SPEAKER_02: that have been established or
18:26
SPEAKER_02: secured for the 32
18:29
SPEAKER_02: innovative pictures
18:30
SPEAKER_02: that we will be able to secure
18:32
SPEAKER_02: as a spot on stage in Bari
18:34
SPEAKER_02: at the Innovation Fair.
18:35
SPEAKER_02: Thanks to the investors, we've been
18:36
SPEAKER_02: able to listen to them
18:38
SPEAKER_02: and part of the audience are brought
18:40
SPEAKER_02: together at the Innovation Fair on
18:42
SPEAKER_02: the 25th November.
18:43
SPEAKER_02: And we'll be, trust me and rest
18:45
SPEAKER_02: assured that we'll monitoring this
18:47
SPEAKER_02: very closely, six to nine
18:49
SPEAKER_02: to 12 months and further.
18:53
SPEAKER_00: I'm curious about something.
18:55
SPEAKER_00: What do you think happens to maybe
18:57
SPEAKER_00: a promising research result
18:59
SPEAKER_00: that may be too advanced
19:01
SPEAKER_00: for research grants, but also
19:04
SPEAKER_00: not ready yet for private
19:05
SPEAKER_00: investment?
19:06
SPEAKER_00: Where does that project
19:07
SPEAKER_00: go?
19:08
SPEAKER_02: It comes to the Innovation Fair.
19:10
SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much, Amna.
19:12
SPEAKER_02: That's exactly one of
19:14
SPEAKER_02: the questions that drives us in
19:16
SPEAKER_02: setting up the Innovation Fair.
19:18
SPEAKER_02: It's exactly, I mean, from
19:20
SPEAKER_02: your question, I can tell you've
19:21
SPEAKER_02: been experiencing first-hand
19:23
SPEAKER_02: these kind of scenarios.
19:25
SPEAKER_02: We realized over the years that
19:27
SPEAKER_02: despite, you know, the
19:29
SPEAKER_02: AU-EU Innovation Agenda was
19:31
SPEAKER_02: first conceived during the first
19:33
SPEAKER_02: so far ever ministerial
19:35
SPEAKER_02: meeting that took place in July
19:36
SPEAKER_02: 2020, in which
19:38
SPEAKER_02: ministers of research innovation of
19:40
SPEAKER_02: the AU and EU acknowledged that
19:42
SPEAKER_02: despite the decades of good
19:43
SPEAKER_02: collaboration research innovation,
19:45
SPEAKER_02: we could put more effort
19:47
SPEAKER_02: at a political level to ensure
19:49
SPEAKER_02: a more effective translation of
19:51
SPEAKER_02: those innovative results would
19:53
SPEAKER_02: turn into product services and
19:54
SPEAKER_02: business opportunities in Africa and
19:56
SPEAKER_02: Europe.
19:57
SPEAKER_02: On that pathwa, while trying to
19:58
SPEAKER_02: get into that goal, we realize
20:00
SPEAKER_02: there's still a big gap to be
20:02
SPEAKER_02: filled in, right?
20:03
SPEAKER_02: And so that's why the Innovation
20:04
SPEAKER_02: Fair in November will have two
20:06
SPEAKER_02: pitching components.
20:08
SPEAKER_02: On one hand, we will have 16
20:09
SPEAKER_02: solutions that are the exact
20:11
SPEAKER_02: outcomes of those research
20:12
SPEAKER_02: innovation projects that have really
20:14
SPEAKER_02: generated promising results.
20:16
SPEAKER_02: But yet such results require
20:18
SPEAKER_02: further de-risking and investments.
20:20
SPEAKER_02: And so they will be one big part of
20:22
SPEAKER_02: the pitching part.
20:23
SPEAKER_02: And then we will have a second
20:24
SPEAKER_02: component that is the pitching
20:26
SPEAKER_02: session of the innovative solutions
20:27
SPEAKER_02: from innovative science-based
20:29
SPEAKER_02: or deep tech startups and SMEs.
20:31
SPEAKER_02: And indeed, they will be coming
20:33
SPEAKER_02: on stage as the outcome of
20:35
SPEAKER_02: selection.
20:37
SPEAKER_00: I wanted to kind of touch base
20:39
SPEAKER_00: on the new science diplomacy track
20:42
SPEAKER_00: being added as its own track
20:43
SPEAKER_00: in the AU-EU research innovation
20:45
SPEAKER_00: dialogue.
20:46
SPEAKER_00: How did that come into
20:47
SPEAKER_00: being and why now?
20:51
SPEAKER_02: Yes, we will have the AU-EU
20:54
SPEAKER_02: Second Research and Innovation
20:55
SPEAKER_02: Ministerial Meeting on the 27th of
20:57
SPEAKER_02: October in Addis Ababa in
20:59
SPEAKER_02: Ethiopia.
20:59
SPEAKER_02: Indeed, building on the
21:01
SPEAKER_02: senior officials' meeting of October
21:03
SPEAKER_02: 2025, one of
21:05
SPEAKER_02: the discussion items will be the
21:07
SPEAKER_02: endorsement of two new areas
21:10
SPEAKER_02: within our cooperation, one of them
21:11
SPEAKER_02: AU-EU dialogue on science diplomacy
21:13
SPEAKER_02: and the other one on AI
21:15
SPEAKER_02: in science.
21:16
SPEAKER_02: Where does it come from?
21:17
SPEAKER_02: It comes really, and I'm
21:18
SPEAKER_02: specifically now focusing to AU-EU
21:21
SPEAKER_02: dialogue on science diplomacy, of
21:22
SPEAKER_02: course.
21:23
SPEAKER_02: It really comes from the
21:24
SPEAKER_02: general acknowledgement
21:26
SPEAKER_02: of the great importance of science
21:27
SPEAKER_02: diplomacy within our broad
21:30
SPEAKER_02: Africa-Europe dialogue and
21:31
SPEAKER_02: certainly, indeed certainly, in the
21:33
SPEAKER_02: space of science technology
21:34
SPEAKER_02: innovation.
21:35
SPEAKER_02: It also comes from a willingness to
21:37
SPEAKER_02: give it a more institutionalized
21:39
SPEAKER_02: space, keeping in mind that the
21:41
SPEAKER_02: other partnerships that are
21:43
SPEAKER_02: implementing this overall
21:44
SPEAKER_02: cooperation, I'm referring to the
21:46
SPEAKER_02: partnership on public health,
21:52
SPEAKER_02: European and Developing Countries Clinical Trials Partnership (EDCTP),
21:52
SPEAKER_02: now on the third cycle of funding,
21:54
SPEAKER_02: or the
22:01
SPEAKER_02: African Union-European Union Research and Innovation Partnership on Food
22:01
SPEAKER_02: and Nutrition Security and Sustainable Agriculture (FNSSA Partnership),
22:02
SPEAKER_02: or the
22:04
SPEAKER_02: Partnership on Climate Change and Sustainable Energy (CCSE)
22:05
SPEAKER_02: and the work of the AU-EU Innovation
22:07
SPEAKER_02: Agenda.
22:08
SPEAKER_02: All these partnerships have
22:09
SPEAKER_02: been extensively used and they
22:11
SPEAKER_02: actually use on a daily basis
22:12
SPEAKER_02: science diplomacy as a tool, right?
22:14
SPEAKER_02: But there was a willingness also to
22:16
SPEAKER_02: institutionalize this in a dedicated
22:17
SPEAKER_02: work stream, so to say.
22:19
SPEAKER_02: And as part of that, there will be
22:22
SPEAKER_02: an important second big
22:23
SPEAKER_02: workshop on part of this
22:25
SPEAKER_02: AU-EU science diplomacy dialogue
22:28
SPEAKER_02: with a specific focus on
22:29
SPEAKER_02: research infrastructure.
22:30
SPEAKER_02: And this will happen in the margins
22:32
SPEAKER_02: of Science Forum South Africa and of
22:33
SPEAKER_02: the first ever Science Diplomacy
22:35
SPEAKER_02: Conference of Africa at the
22:36
SPEAKER_02: beginning of December.
22:37
SPEAKER_02: So all in all, as a way to do more
22:39
SPEAKER_02: justice to the field
22:41
SPEAKER_02: of science diplomacy, keeping in
22:43
SPEAKER_02: mind however that this is, as
22:44
SPEAKER_02: you know very well, this is a
22:46
SPEAKER_02: cross-cutting area that
22:48
SPEAKER_02: will be
22:50
SPEAKER_02: serving also all the thematic
22:52
SPEAKER_02: priorities of this cooperation,
22:54
SPEAKER_02: as it has done so far, and
22:56
SPEAKER_02: possibly even more.
22:58
SPEAKER_01: What are the actual issues that you
22:59
SPEAKER_01: want African and European scientists
23:01
SPEAKER_01: and diplomats sitting down together
23:02
SPEAKER_01: to work through?
23:03
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm thinking AI and emerging
23:05
SPEAKER_01: tech, research security,
23:07
SPEAKER_01: scientific mobility, health
23:08
SPEAKER_01: security, food security,
23:10
SPEAKER_01: climate and energy, research
23:12
SPEAKER_01: infrastructure, standards,
23:14
SPEAKER_01: regulation.
23:16
SPEAKER_01: And where do you expect the real
23:17
SPEAKER_01: friction to be?
23:19
SPEAKER_02: Thanks, John.
23:20
SPEAKER_02: It's certainly not easy because
23:21
SPEAKER_02: you're referring to frictions, and
23:23
SPEAKER_02: potential fictions.
23:24
SPEAKER_02: This is also why I like to more
23:26
SPEAKER_02: comfortably talk about the
23:27
SPEAKER_02: Innovation Agenda because
23:29
SPEAKER_02: of course there are divergent views.
23:30
SPEAKER_02: I mean, for example, when we look at
23:32
SPEAKER_02: green transition and the importance
23:34
SPEAKER_02: for Africa to industrialize
23:36
SPEAKER_02: itself, and of course making use
23:38
SPEAKER_02: of all the resources that are
23:39
SPEAKER_02: available within the continent to do
23:40
SPEAKER_02: so.
23:41
SPEAKER_02: The beauty of the AU-EU Innovation
23:43
SPEAKER_02: Agenda is that it brings together
23:45
SPEAKER_02: all the points of convergence of
23:47
SPEAKER_02: the two unions.
23:48
SPEAKER_02: And therefore, if you go through, as
23:49
SPEAKER_02: you know very well, through the
23:50
SPEAKER_02: actions in the thematic
23:52
SPEAKER_02: area of transition of the AU-EU
23:54
SPEAKER_02: Innovation Agenda, you realize
23:55
SPEAKER_02: that indeed, these are the
23:57
SPEAKER_02: areas to which all AU and EU
23:59
SPEAKER_02: member states decided to commit
24:01
SPEAKER_02: because indeed, they are fitting the
24:03
SPEAKER_02: continental but also the country
24:04
SPEAKER_02: agenda and the national agenda for
24:06
SPEAKER_02: each and every member state.
24:07
SPEAKER_02: And therefore, they do not conflict
24:09
SPEAKER_02: with any potential other industrial
24:10
SPEAKER_02: policy that may be taking a
24:12
SPEAKER_02: continental level in Africa, for
24:13
SPEAKER_02: example, as elsewhere,
24:15
SPEAKER_02: including Europe.
24:17
SPEAKER_02: So potential areas of frictions, I
24:18
SPEAKER_02: would say, if indeed there could be
24:20
SPEAKER_02: divergent views on how Africa can
24:22
SPEAKER_02: reach, can reap its full potential
24:24
SPEAKER_02: in terms of industrialization and
24:26
SPEAKER_02: therefore make use of fossil
24:29
SPEAKER_02: fuels compared to renewable
24:30
SPEAKER_02: energies.
24:31
SPEAKER_02: But I think as long as
24:32
SPEAKER_02: we will continue having a
24:34
SPEAKER_02: constructive dialogue as done so
24:35
SPEAKER_02: far, I do not foresee particular
24:37
SPEAKER_02: frictions in that sense.
24:38
SPEAKER_02: I think actually science diplomacy
24:40
SPEAKER_02: can really be leveraged to
24:42
SPEAKER_02: actually make sure that such
24:43
SPEAKER_02: frictions are addressed.
24:45
SPEAKER_02: So I think throughout science
24:46
SPEAKER_02: diplomacy can be the tool
24:48
SPEAKER_02: to be employed for making sure that
24:50
SPEAKER_02: those frictions turn into, well,
24:52
SPEAKER_02: are addressed as constructively
24:54
SPEAKER_02: as possible, as we've done, for
24:55
SPEAKER_02: example, in the development in
24:57
SPEAKER_02: leading to this development of this
24:58
SPEAKER_02: AU-EU Innovation Agenda, their aims
25:00
SPEAKER_02: to potentially possibly
25:02
SPEAKER_02: leverage all national development
25:04
SPEAKER_02: policies and certainly continental
25:05
SPEAKER_02: development policies in both Africa
25:07
SPEAKER_02: and Europe.
25:09
SPEAKER_00: I wanted to ask you how much of
25:12
SPEAKER_00: science diplomacy today is still
25:14
SPEAKER_00: really about cooperation
25:17
SPEAKER_00: and how much is
25:18
SPEAKER_00: it becoming about strategic
25:20
SPEAKER_00: interests?
25:23
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
25:23
SPEAKER_02: And I think in
25:25
SPEAKER_02: the Africa-Europe relation,
25:29
SPEAKER_02: the optimist or a dreamer, I think
25:31
SPEAKER_02: is the vast majority of it, and
25:33
SPEAKER_02: that's why I insist on the wording
25:35
SPEAKER_02: of the positive agenda.
25:37
SPEAKER_02: I mean, the positive agenda is
25:40
SPEAKER_02: a naming that I touched to the AU-EU
25:41
SPEAKER_02: Innovation Agenda, for
25:43
SPEAKER_02: obvious reasons.
25:44
SPEAKER_02: But I think, the
25:45
SPEAKER_02: overall positive agenda is
25:46
SPEAKER_02: represented by the cooperation
25:48
SPEAKER_02: on science, technology innovation
25:50
SPEAKER_02: between Africa and Europe.
25:51
SPEAKER_02: So I think there's still a
25:53
SPEAKER_02: space of opportunity.
25:54
SPEAKER_02: And if we start intending
25:56
SPEAKER_02: towards innovation as
25:58
SPEAKER_02: entrepreneurship, then we realize
26:00
SPEAKER_02: that indeed it takes the
26:02
SPEAKER_02: biggest part of the Africa Europe
26:04
SPEAKER_02: corporation.
26:05
SPEAKER_02: Because indeed, if we then consider
26:06
SPEAKER_02: innovation, entrepreneurship,
26:08
SPEAKER_02: and entrepreneurial ventures, then
26:10
SPEAKER_02: indeed if you look at the programs
26:11
SPEAKER_02: that are basically the programs on
26:13
SPEAKER_02: which the Africa-Europe corporation
26:15
SPEAKER_02: is based on, you realize that the
26:16
SPEAKER_02: vast majority of them are about
26:18
SPEAKER_02: entrepreneurship in the broad
26:20
SPEAKER_02: sense of the term.
26:21
SPEAKER_02: So I would say that science
26:23
SPEAKER_02: diplomacy is attached to a positive
26:25
SPEAKER_02: agenda in this Africa-Europe space.
26:29
SPEAKER_01: So Africa has a lot of potential
26:30
SPEAKER_01: scientific and technological
26:32
SPEAKER_01: partners right now.
26:33
SPEAKER_01: Europe, China, India, the U.S.,
26:35
SPEAKER_01: Gulf countries and others.
26:37
SPEAKER_01: What does Europe offer that's
26:39
SPEAKER_01: genuinely distinctive in that
26:41
SPEAKER_01: landscape?
26:41
SPEAKER_01: Does that competition push Europe to
26:43
SPEAKER_01: be a better partner?
26:47
SPEAKER_02: Yes, I think it's, you know,
26:49
SPEAKER_02: what one can offer to the other is
26:50
SPEAKER_02: an important element to consider
26:52
SPEAKER_02: because indeed as part of a dialogue
26:54
SPEAKER_02: and as part of a
26:56
SPEAKER_02: really a relationship or as
26:57
SPEAKER_02: sustainable as it needs to be, it's
26:59
SPEAKER_02: important indeed to bring
27:02
SPEAKER_02: assets to the table in a way that
27:03
SPEAKER_02: and we then are looking together at
27:05
SPEAKER_02: what we can reap in terms of
27:07
SPEAKER_02: mutual benefits, right?
27:09
SPEAKER_02: I think while, of course,
27:11
SPEAKER_02: Europe can learn a lot from Africa
27:13
SPEAKER_02: in terms of, we're talking
27:14
SPEAKER_02: about entrepreneurship, creativity,
27:15
SPEAKER_02: resilience,
27:18
SPEAKER_02: including climate resilience,
27:20
SPEAKER_02: Europe can also share and bring to
27:22
SPEAKER_02: the table its sustainability,
27:24
SPEAKER_02: for example, when it comes to the
27:26
SPEAKER_02: infrastructure, when it comes living
27:28
SPEAKER_02: in urban spaces, for
27:29
SPEAKER_02: example, looking at big urban
27:32
SPEAKER_02: conglomerates or agglomerates and
27:34
SPEAKER_02: certainly something that
27:35
SPEAKER_02: urbanization in Africa is an
27:38
SPEAKER_02: important element to consider
27:39
SPEAKER_02: also, looking at the demographic
27:41
SPEAKER_02: trajectory.
27:42
SPEAKER_02: Technological development and
27:44
SPEAKER_02: development of value chains.
27:46
SPEAKER_02: Some of them can indeed some of
27:48
SPEAKER_02: these can be rather transferred, it
27:49
SPEAKER_02: could be shared, but could also be
27:51
SPEAKER_02: a source of inspiration for the
27:53
SPEAKER_02: African continent.
27:53
SPEAKER_02: So I would say
27:54
SPEAKER_02: sustainability, if I had to choose
27:55
SPEAKER_02: for a word, I think sustainability
27:57
SPEAKER_02: is a word, is an element
27:59
SPEAKER_02: that Europe can
28:01
SPEAKER_02: share with the African continent.
28:03
SPEAKER_02: But I also think that
28:04
SPEAKER_02: industrialization and value
28:06
SPEAKER_02: chain development and enhancement
28:07
SPEAKER_02: and strengthening is something that
28:09
SPEAKER_02: we can also, and we're already doing
28:11
SPEAKER_02: it, as part of the Global Gateway,
28:13
SPEAKER_02: announce a cooperation on,
28:14
SPEAKER_02: because Africa really needs
28:16
SPEAKER_02: that in order to survive.
28:19
SPEAKER_00: So before Bari,
28:21
SPEAKER_00: research ministers from both unions
28:23
SPEAKER_00: are meeting in Addis Ababa
28:25
SPEAKER_00: in October, alongside the
28:27
SPEAKER_00: next round of implementation
28:29
SPEAKER_00: assessments.
28:30
SPEAKER_00: What do you think people should be
28:31
SPEAKER_00: watching out for in that meeting?
28:35
SPEAKER_02: I think the fact that indeed the
28:36
SPEAKER_02: ministerial comes also strategically
28:38
SPEAKER_02: at a time when there are no
28:40
SPEAKER_02: other overlapping, so to say,
28:41
SPEAKER_02: ministerial meetings of the AU and
28:43
SPEAKER_02: EU, is certainly particularly
28:45
SPEAKER_02: crucial.
28:46
SPEAKER_02: Of course, communication on
28:50
SPEAKER_02: the deliverables
28:51
SPEAKER_02: of the ministeral and the
28:52
SPEAKER_02: ministerial declaration would
28:54
SPEAKER_02: certainly be key and the stakeholder
28:55
SPEAKER_02: engagement around that.
28:57
SPEAKER_02: But I will say all in all, yes,
28:58
SPEAKER_02: increasing significance of
29:00
SPEAKER_02: our cooperation on science,
29:01
SPEAKER_02: technology, and innovation.
29:02
SPEAKER_02: To recall, one of the expressions
29:04
SPEAKER_02: that I used at the beginning of this
29:06
SPEAKER_02: conversation, it's bigger than the
29:07
SPEAKER_02: size itself.
29:10
SPEAKER_01: There are also some assessments
29:11
SPEAKER_01: coming out around that time
29:13
SPEAKER_01: of the second and third year.
29:16
SPEAKER_01: So three years in,
29:18
SPEAKER_01: really what's the one question that
29:20
SPEAKER_01: you would most want these new
29:21
SPEAKER_01: assessments to answer?
29:23
SPEAKER_01: And what result would actually
29:25
SPEAKER_01: worry you?
29:27
SPEAKER_02: Yes, thank you, John.
29:28
SPEAKER_02: Indeed, we will be coming to
29:31
SPEAKER_02: the second ministerial meeting
29:33
SPEAKER_02: with the publications
29:35
SPEAKER_02: of two key reports of the assessment
29:37
SPEAKER_02: of year two and year three of
29:39
SPEAKER_02: implementation of the 10-year AU-EU
29:41
SPEAKER_02: Innovation Agenda.
29:43
SPEAKER_02: An important element for us to still
29:45
SPEAKER_02: address is, for example, we've seen
29:47
SPEAKER_02: that between
29:49
SPEAKER_02: 2023 and 2026
29:51
SPEAKER_02: is actually the time frame in
29:53
SPEAKER_02: which we've been
29:55
SPEAKER_02: having implementation
29:57
SPEAKER_02: of the short-term actions of the
29:59
SPEAKER_02: AU-EU Innovation Agenda.
30:00
SPEAKER_02: So the actions expected to
30:02
SPEAKER_02: really lead to measurable results
30:04
SPEAKER_02: at the latest by 2026.
30:07
SPEAKER_02: And therefore with that there will
30:08
SPEAKER_02: be a few projects that will be
30:10
SPEAKER_02: ending.
30:11
SPEAKER_02: And indeed also linking myself to
30:12
SPEAKER_02: the previous question by Amna,
30:14
SPEAKER_02: for us it will be important to see
30:16
SPEAKER_02: how many of these projects are
30:17
SPEAKER_02: continuing in ventures that
30:19
SPEAKER_02: are getting closer to societal
30:21
SPEAKER_02: uptake and the marketplace, how
30:23
SPEAKER_02: many of this projects are turning
30:25
SPEAKER_02: into
30:26
SPEAKER_02: other projects that have been
30:27
SPEAKER_02: granted in other ways, or maybe also
30:29
SPEAKER_02: through the initial granting
30:31
SPEAKER_02: schemes, but with a technology
30:34
SPEAKER_02: readiness level that is higher than
30:36
SPEAKER_02: the starting one of the previous or
30:38
SPEAKER_02: the origin of the original project.
30:40
SPEAKER_02: And so this is something extremely
30:41
SPEAKER_02: important to measure, because it
30:43
SPEAKER_02: really goes in the spirit of the
30:44
SPEAKER_02: AU-EU Innovation Agenda, which is
30:46
SPEAKER_02: really building on the good that
30:48
SPEAKER_02: we've done so far to
30:50
SPEAKER_02: make the good turn into, and I
30:52
SPEAKER_02: like to say, the better into
30:54
SPEAKER_02: betterer, if that even exists as
30:56
SPEAKER_02: a word.
30:58
SPEAKER_01: So you've been inside the commission
31:00
SPEAKER_01: now, working on this relationship
31:01
SPEAKER_01: for several years now.
31:02
SPEAKER_01: What has Africa taught Europe
31:04
SPEAKER_01: about science and innovation that
31:06
SPEAKER_01: Europe wasn't expecting?
31:09
SPEAKER_02: Thank you, John, for this beautiful
31:10
SPEAKER_02: question.
31:11
SPEAKER_02: I would say many things.
31:12
SPEAKER_02: If anything at all, I think the
31:13
SPEAKER_02: open-mindedness, really the
31:15
SPEAKER_02: open mindedness, and allow me to
31:17
SPEAKER_02: take the example of Nigeria, of
31:19
SPEAKER_02: course, as an easy one, where indeed
31:21
SPEAKER_02: linking innovation to the broader
31:22
SPEAKER_02: definition of entrepreneurship, to
31:23
SPEAKER_02: really see the full potential of,
31:26
SPEAKER_02: which is yet to be written, yet to
31:27
SPEAKER_02: realized, of our cooperation.
31:30
SPEAKER_02: Indeed, if we look in our innovative
31:32
SPEAKER_02: ventures in the space of creative
31:33
SPEAKER_02: industries and culture, you really
31:35
SPEAKER_02: see that, indeed, science,
31:37
SPEAKER_02: technology and innovation are very
31:38
SPEAKER_02: much cross-cutting.
31:40
SPEAKER_02: And therefore, I mean, the EU knows
31:42
SPEAKER_02: this and certainly know this in its
31:43
SPEAKER_02: cooperation with the African Union
31:45
SPEAKER_02: across different regions
31:47
SPEAKER_02: of the continent, and we can
31:48
SPEAKER_02: certainly do more because the
31:49
SPEAKER_02: potential is really immense in
31:51
SPEAKER_02: that space.
31:52
SPEAKER_02: So I would say that
31:53
SPEAKER_02: next to entrepreneurship and
31:55
SPEAKER_02: dynamism that is also linked to
31:57
SPEAKER_02: the youthfulness of the African
31:58
SPEAKER_02: continent, Africa is
32:00
SPEAKER_02: showing every day to European
32:02
SPEAKER_02: partner and European partners
32:04
SPEAKER_02: that really science, technology and
32:05
SPEAKER_02: innovation are not necessarily
32:07
SPEAKER_02: restricted to a lab space within
32:09
SPEAKER_02: a university, certainly that is
32:10
SPEAKER_02: important, but they can really
32:12
SPEAKER_02: get up to the citizen space and
32:14
SPEAKER_02: invest in as many sectors as
32:16
SPEAKER_02: one may think of.
32:19
SPEAKER_00: If we were to have this conversation
32:20
SPEAKER_00: again, maybe 10 years from now,
32:23
SPEAKER_00: what do you think would
32:25
SPEAKER_00: have to be true for you to say that
32:27
SPEAKER_00: this Africa-Europe science
32:29
SPEAKER_00: diplomacy has really worked out?
32:33
SPEAKER_02: Thank you, that's a beautiful one.
32:35
SPEAKER_02: I would say, well, we need
32:37
SPEAKER_02: to see how many products
32:39
SPEAKER_02: have been generated, how many
32:40
SPEAKER_02: solutions have been brought to
32:43
SPEAKER_02: the market, to the society, to end
32:44
SPEAKER_02: users as an outcome, as
32:46
SPEAKER_02: a direct outcome and
32:48
SPEAKER_02: outputs really of this AU-EU
32:50
SPEAKER_02: Innovation Agenda.
32:52
SPEAKER_02: For really having a legacy that
32:54
SPEAKER_02: stays within communities and stays
32:55
SPEAKER_02: within society, coming out
32:57
SPEAKER_02: of this policy being implemented.
32:59
SPEAKER_02: How many businesses have been scaled
33:01
SPEAKER_02: up?
33:01
SPEAKER_02: How many startups have
33:03
SPEAKER_02: been accessing bigger
33:04
SPEAKER_02: markets?
33:05
SPEAKER_02: And by that I mean all
33:06
SPEAKER_02: you know from African startups
33:08
SPEAKER_02: venturing to broader regions of the
33:10
SPEAKER_02: continent, and then get to Europe?
33:12
SPEAKER_02: And vice versa?
33:13
SPEAKER_02: From Europe, across Europe, and
33:15
SPEAKER_02: then from European countries across
33:16
SPEAKER_02: Europe, and then to the African
33:18
SPEAKER_02: continent and back.
33:20
SPEAKER_02: So really leaving that legacy
33:22
SPEAKER_02: in outputs and outcomes that could
33:23
SPEAKER_02: be tangibly measurable and, of
33:25
SPEAKER_02: course, let's not forget that
33:26
SPEAKER_02: ultimately it should all be about
33:28
SPEAKER_02: the people, because it's all other
33:29
SPEAKER_02: people, isn't it?
33:30
SPEAKER_02: And also the institutional
33:32
SPEAKER_02: friendship and institutional ties
33:36
SPEAKER_02: across the
33:36
SPEAKER_02: Mediterranean.
33:37
SPEAKER_02: This is something that I think will
33:38
SPEAKER_02: be a way also to measure the success
33:41
SPEAKER_02: of our diplomacy in practice,
33:42
SPEAKER_02: right?
33:43
SPEAKER_02: As we call it, in the AU-EU
33:44
SPEAKER_02: Innovation Agenda, is science
33:45
SPEAKER_02: diplomacy in practice, to also quote
33:47
SPEAKER_02: one title coming from Arete News,
33:50
SPEAKER_02: a year and a half back.
33:52
SPEAKER_00: Thank you again for joining us on
33:54
SPEAKER_00: the Science Diplomat Podcast.
33:55
SPEAKER_00: It was wonderful to hear from
33:57
SPEAKER_00: you, and we look forward to
33:59
SPEAKER_00: seeing everything that happens at
34:01
SPEAKER_00: the Innovation Fair in October.
34:03
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
34:07
SPEAKER_02: Thank you both and can you please
34:08
SPEAKER_02: allow me to make a
34:10
SPEAKER_02: final announcement or perhaps make
34:11
SPEAKER_02: it more explicit if I could say
34:13
SPEAKER_02: so.
34:14
SPEAKER_02: Indeed, to all the startups
34:15
SPEAKER_02: and the SMEs working in
34:17
SPEAKER_02: the space of innovative solutions,
34:19
SPEAKER_02: science-based and deep tech,
34:21
SPEAKER_02: particularly in the sector of food
34:23
SPEAKER_02: and nutrition security and
34:24
SPEAKER_02: sustainable agriculture, this call
34:26
SPEAKER_02: is for you.
34:27
SPEAKER_02: We've got an open call for
34:28
SPEAKER_02: expression of interest that is
34:29
SPEAKER_02: indeed available on the website of
34:31
SPEAKER_02: the AU-EU-Med Innovation Fair.
34:32
SPEAKER_02: It's open
34:35
SPEAKER_02: until the 15th of September.
34:37
SPEAKER_02: Please do submit your special
34:38
SPEAKER_02: interest.
34:39
SPEAKER_02: It's really worth the opportunity to
34:40
SPEAKER_02: come and pitch about your innovative
34:42
SPEAKER_02: solutions, not just to us, but to an
34:44
SPEAKER_02: audience of investors on
34:46
SPEAKER_02: the 25th of November in Bari,
34:49
SPEAKER_02: Italy.
34:50
SPEAKER_02: The fair will also be accessible
34:51
SPEAKER_02: online, but those who will be
34:52
SPEAKER_02: pitching will be doing so
34:54
SPEAKER_02: in person in Italy, and thank
34:56
SPEAKER_02: you all for this space.
34:58
SPEAKER_00: Just a quick question before we wrap
34:59
SPEAKER_00: up.
35:00
SPEAKER_00: Why food and nutrition
35:01
SPEAKER_00: specifically?
35:04
SPEAKER_02: Last year, just on the
35:06
SPEAKER_02: eve of the 2025 Innovation
35:08
SPEAKER_02: Fair, the AU-EU Innovation
35:10
SPEAKER_02: Working Group on Food Innovation,
35:12
SPEAKER_02: Security and Sustainable Agriculture
35:14
SPEAKER_02: really made a plea for
35:16
SPEAKER_02: doing more in that space and
35:17
SPEAKER_02: facilitating a fully
35:19
SPEAKER_02: food innovation, security,
35:20
SPEAKER_02: sustainable agriculture-focused
35:22
SPEAKER_02: Innovation Fair.
35:23
SPEAKER_02: And so we decided
35:25
SPEAKER_02: in that very venue, on the eve
35:27
SPEAKER_02: of the 2025 Innovation Fair,
35:29
SPEAKER_02: that this was absolutely an
35:31
SPEAKER_02: opportunity to seize and hopefully
35:33
SPEAKER_02: we'll be able to do justice to a lot
35:34
SPEAKER_02: of those projects you referred to
35:36
SPEAKER_02: earlier on that indeed are there
35:38
SPEAKER_02: delivering promising results,
35:40
SPEAKER_02: but yet once they reach an end,
35:42
SPEAKER_02: would still warrant further support,
35:44
SPEAKER_02: de-risking for them to
35:45
SPEAKER_02: make one or more steps closer
35:47
SPEAKER_02: to the marketplace and to
35:49
SPEAKER_02: society.
35:50
SPEAKER_00: Thank you again, Vincenzo, and thank
35:52
SPEAKER_00: you for being on The Science
35:53
SPEAKER_00: Diplomat Podcast.
35:54
SPEAKER_00: This is The Science diplomat signing
35:56
SPEAKER_00: off.